The way fearnots almost “fetishize” the maknae title when it comes to eunchae needs to be studied. No other fandom has probably ever been this obsessed with the maknae position. It’s always “eunchae is the most maknae maknae ever” “eunchae best maknae” “eunchae is so maknae” like ok we get it, how about not reducing her to just being the youngest?
Like I have never ever heard people acting like maknea was a serious title before Eunchae. Before maknea was just youngest person in a group, while Le Sserafim thinks maknea is a personality.
The fact that I came across a video says, "Other than being the maknae Eunchae brings nothing to Lesserafim," and you stating this blows my mind! She's has way more to her than being the maknae...
The maknae expectations are ridiculous. For example: Seohyun (SNSD's maknae) was denied so many iconic roles in movies/TV shows because the company thought they went against her youngest image. And there was backlash from some 'fans' when she started acting her age just because she was the maknae. Like, she's in her late 20's/early 30's? Is she supposed to act like a teenager her entire life? These idols are so much more than their age/role, but people take the maknae title and try to force all maknaes into a specific box even once the idols reach their 30's.
@@foreversolely Yes, she was offered Train to Busan (Sohee's role) and Architecture 101 (Suzy's role) - these are the only ones I know of for sure and both movies went on to be huge.
Fearnots need to watch this video asap. Calling Eunchae the Maknae of Kpop is complete, pure idiocy when there’s legit so many idols younger than her active in the industry. For f’s sake Hyein of NJs is literally under the same corporation as Eunchae and she’s younger than her. Like please, stop obsessing over Eunchae’s maknae title cuz the moment she matures and passes 20 everyone’s gonna go “oMg I wAnT tHe oLd eUnChAe bAcK sHe’S nOt mAknAeInG aNyMoRe” - yeah, that’s cuz you refused to let this kid get older and develop into a young lady, and forgot to talk about her talent. That’s it, thank you for coming to my ted talk.
This is actually such a valid concern because i also think that one day, when she grows older and gets more mature, you best believe there will be people that won’t like to see that because they’ll be so attached to her baby-like image. This happened before to idols like jungkook and wonyoung: people loved their cute and youthful personality and now that they no longer act like young kids there are many stans complaining about how “they have changed”
@@soft4taengyeah like wonyoung didn’t start her career by the maknea image. Lol stop pretending to care u r just being petty bc Leeseo doesn’t get the same attention.
It's rlly not that serious people js use it to refer to idols who display fun and youthful traits lmfao yall stans find a problem with everything pls go focus on actual issues rather than creating made up problems from completely innocent stuff
I think it's interesting how hard Eunchae is pushed as a maknae. In her MC position they have her opposite an older idol and they really play into the younger sister/older brother dynamic. In her star diary show she almost exclusively interviews older groups, with older members. Within her group she is the youngest by a large margin. They often style her with youthful haircuts like pigtails, etc. Clearly the korean public buys this concept though, I can't see why else maknae has been an "official" position in kpop this whole time. If part of kpop is about trying to sell paradoxical relationships, perhaps the role of the maknae is to be the viewers' surrogate daughter, or younger sibling.
You’re getting to deep into it like she doesn’t just interview groups that are older than her she’s 16/17 it’s obvious that a lot of idols are gonna be older than her she also interviewed idols that are the same age as her or maybe even younger she interviewed Liz and Leeseo,Kyujin,Bahiyyih they’re all either the same age as her or a few years older and for the hairstyles it’s common for maknaes to have that she talked about it with Leeseo they both said that they didn’t like it and prefer to style their hair the same way as their older members
Tbf, Garam was originally part of the group and she was just about 1 year older than Eunchae and let's be honestly, there isn't much difference between 15 and 16...
This is exactly one of my problems with Fearnots.. Seriously being the maknae is not a freakin personality trait. They obsess over Eunchae being the “maknaest of maknaes” (which not only makes no sense, but is also laughable), I rarely see them praise her dancing, singing, her stage presence, etc. It’s like all they can reduce her to is being the youngest and cutest member. The amount of times they feel the need to compare her to other maknaes like Leeseo or Hyein and basically trash them because they don’t “act like a maknae”, when being a maknae doesn’t mean you have to act like a child. I fear that when Eunchae grows up and matures, people will start hating on her for either not “acting like a maknae” or because she “changed” (or both).
What a double standards when wonyoung only get praised for her looks I never saw a dive do a whole vid essay about 😂 just say u all feelings triggered bc Eunchae got all the hype only u r complaining about others fandom r loving Eunchae. Keep being petty that’s why ppls hate ive.
@@Your.wet..panties Lol. People hate IVE because they have nothing better to do. And of course you’re only argument is “you’re jealous”. Try again, it’s getting old.
@@aeeeeeeeecid I can try honey, it’s funny how you dodged the wonyoung exemple and just brought some bullshit when did I say “jalouse” lol I said “triggered “ it must be the only word in ur dictionary, a typical diveu u r all famous of saying this word “jealous” every time someone criticize Ive. I will say it again why it’s a problem if Eunc is getting attention for her maknea position but it’s normal for wonyoung to be also the same but in different field “ visual/center” I never saw u complaining about it. Neither I saw a fearnot going out of their way to do a whole vid essay. Bc simple we don’t care. So why r u dives getting concerned about eunuchae this Chanel talking about this topic 3 times already, it’s clear they’re just being petty and making everything damn think about ive. the Leeseo hate already stopped it’s not like the past so why r u bringing this again do you feel annoyed by Eunchae’s hype ? Good keep getting triggered.
@@Your.wet..panties Okay and so what is Wonyoung gets praised for looks? She gets attacked for literally any and everything else.. And maybe because I don’t see dives trashing another idols visual to bring Wonyoung up. And nothing is wrong with praising Eunchae as a maknae, but that is all y’all do. I have never seen y’all praise her talents and I feel sorry she has fans who only care about her being a maknae and not how much of a talented girl she is. I’m not even a dive and I know you not talking about triggered when you’re the one writing a whole short story. Just say your toxic Fearnot and move on. Exactly why I won’t stan LSF because of Fearnots like you. How about you go do something productive with yourself..
to be honest i think a lot of fearnots can't handle the fact that in terms of talent eunchae is a filler member and brings barely anything to the group performance and music wise. (i say this as an eunchae biased fearnot by the way). in groups like ive, every member fits a purpose. yujin is the leader and brings a lot to the table in terms of vocals, dancing and performance. gaeul has a unique vocal and rapping tone, as well as being the best dancer. rei has a distinct rap tone and makes all of her lines iconic. wonyoung picks up brand promotions and starts tiktok challenges, as well as being the stan attractor, serving visuals and being an amazing performer. liz is by far the best vocalist and an amazing performer. leeseo has a unique performance and her stage presence is exponentially improving. each member has their own skillsets and their voices all bring something to ive. however in le sserafim eunchae doens't really bring anything of that kind to the table. she only got lines because garam was kicked out, her vocals are underdeveloped and they sound similar to sakura and kazuha's so she doesn't really stand out, she doesn't get rap lines, she's an above average dancer but she's also in a group with sakura and chaewon, le sserafim definitely isn't lacking in terms of dancing. while her stage presence is okay she fits brighter and more energetic concepts which le sserafim has only really done in no celestial and no-return. their other songs are more badass and sultry like fearless, antifragile, unforgiven and eve psyche and the bluebeard's wife, or elegant and classy like blue flame, impurities and perfect night. not to mention le sserafim's concept and choreographies don't fit her age that much with many moves that are inappropriate for minors. the only thing going for her that makes her stand out from the rest is her marketable persona as a fresh, innocent, shy and mischievious youth that's like a younger sister. other than that she has little remarkable talents that make her stand out from the rest of her group and so that's what every fearnot hyperfixates on as the only quality that they can really praise.
i agree with the fact that since eunchae doesnt stand out in anything skill wise, fearnot boasts her maknae title. but you're totally wrong about ive, there are fillers ☠️. remove gaeul and leeseo from the lineup and no one would bat an eye. and in what word are antifragile, unforgiven, and epatbw sultry??? i would even add fearless in the list. these songs require a more cool, tomboy, strong, and like you said badass energy that eunchae doesnt fit most of the time, but theyre not sultry at all not even a little bit. and she does fit pn energy the choreo is just weird.
I really don’t understand why r you talking about talent so what if she’s a filler member her fans r content with her. u just the problem, just being petty and criticizing to feel better about urself. Diveu being petty bc Leeseo doesn’t get the Sam attention as Eunchae
@2FullMoons lmao, never said that she isn’t skilled or that her future is doomed. im saying that as of right now she brings nothing which you disagree with, i just do not see ive being that impacted if she was never here.
@@Your.wet..panties Leeseo is the reason why Eleven even started charting... Her close-up shot went viral and thats when the song started to chart lol. Love Dive, She went viral for her, "Narcissistic, My god I love it" part. Kitsch, She went viral for rapping Rei's part. Those are only a few examples. Meanwhile, Eunchae has only even gone viral for being the youngest. Also, How is she, "Relatable"? All she ever does is talk about how young she is.
My biggest problem is that when fandoms constantly baby the maknaes when they're grown adults in their 20s or 30s (Insomnias for example baby Gahyeon (DC's Maknae) when she is 24 yo) even when the idols themselves aren't comfortable with it
like you said it’s so true that kpop stans really push the family narrative onto groups and they take it too seriously, that’s why you have people expecting every maknae to fit their “role” and if they don’t they ain’t good enough
I think that one of the reasons for the hate on lesseo is majorly because she comes from IVE. If it was any other group, they wouldn't even bother her. Her hate is also rooted in Misogyny. And also since many people may not want to here it, IVE is the competition for the Big 4 girl groups. That is why they nitpick everything that the group does. Wonyoung Strawberry just breathing infact. Liz gaining weight as if people don't understand that women's bodies go through variations Yujin acting mature when she IS LITERALLY the leader of IVE Gauel for just being their and yet she is a good dancer and contributes a lot to the group REI for just being Japanese. Fun fact: the girls are not going anywhere. 😭😭😭🤗🤗🤗. It doesn't hurt to be a fan.
It feels like Eunchae doesn't actually have anything going for her (besides being a maknae). Her dance is alright but Sakura, Chaewon and Kazuha really overshadow her. To praise her, like every fandom does with their idols, I think Fearnots just focus on her maknae title lol. I really hope that Eunchae can make a title of herself in the future that isn't just tied to her maknae position, she could make for a really good rapper (if trained good).
Eunchae really is just a filler member. If Garam was still in the group I guarantee Garam would've been the one being a music show host with her own show rn. Eunchae brings absolutely nothing to the group talent wise and is just there for her childish personality and visuals.
The fact that you say Kazuha outshines her in dance when she does the worst in their group songs says a lot. Eunchae in some songs even outdoes Sakura and Chaewon (who are overall the 2 strongest dancers). E,P&TB...is a good example of that. Sure, she doesn't have that explosive stage presence that Yunjin and Chaewon have, but she is still a great performer and balances the group out with her softer stage presence.I think it was everglowup, but she did a great job analysing Le sserafims stage presence, though it was OT6 back then and Eunchae was pushed to the side because of the concept being too mature (I think we all remember that scene it ghe fearless MV...). Also, she is literally the 3rd best vocalist in the group...why is noone talking about that? She isn't the best, but she also isn't as bad as Sakura and Kazuha (sorry, but her live vocals in unforgiven for example....). She is decent, especially considering that she is from hybe,and does well live as well, yet noone seems to pay attention to it I don't understand why she has always been pushed to the side and ignored. It was only after Garam left that HYBE gave her decent lines, center time, etc. The same goes to the fans...
@@24O325 eunchae isnt a filler member, she brings alot of attention to the group which helps them gain popularity and visuals are a need in kpop because they are the face of the group and they are the member that people think of when they see the group.
As a wiz*one I remember how loved Wonyoung was as a maknae they would only talk about how adorable and bubbly she was “like a true maknae" and the day Wonyoung debuted in IVE another member became the maknae and Wony started pulling away from her maknae persona she received massive hate and a lot of people said "she changed" and when Wony did act cute and bubbly people started saying she was forcing it well of course she’s forcing it because y’all won’t leave her the fuck alone with the Maknae title
frrr like wonyoung is growing into a young adult--of course shes gonna be different from the group she was in when she was a teen w/ members older than her. She not "fake", shes just 19 now, not 14. When Eunchae becomes an adult, she's going to have that maknae title hanging above her head, and that's harmful. I rlly hope Eunchae will successfully grow without getting hate. Fearnots love her to death, but I wonder if they'll continue to if she ever changes?? As bad as that sounds, kpop stans rlly switch up faster than light. sorry for my long rant LMAO
@@pshfl You’re totally right I hated seeing people switch up on Wonyoung so quickly and hate her for being the way she is and I really don’t want that to happen to Manchae
Fearnots bu11y the sh1t out of leeseo and will cry about someone criticising eunchae saying she’s a child .leeseo is even younger than eunchae 😃this will never be okay to me
Your point about fandoms pushing roles onto them like mother, aunt, sister etc. Its not just the fandom, its the company who does this. Alot of ex idols have exposed this, that when you become an idol in a group they will assign your persona onto you and expect you to keep up appearances or do certain fanservice catered to these dynamics. If you are a multistan or been kpop for a while u will notice how many groups describe themselves and act in the EXACT same way in so much of their content. Its just weird because its like they reduce there personalities into a type of rigid persona.
The family roleplay game with kpop groups lowkey makes me cringe. However, the maknae thing is part of the cultural age hierarchy of south korea. The older you are, the more respected you are and if you're the youngest, you're the baby of the group. I don't think there's anything wrong with it. Although I do agree that "maknae" shouldn't be one's entire personality. This problem is mostly seen with I-kpop stans rather than knetz. Mainly because I-fans' entire understanding of maknae is from their fave. The industry being ageist is 100% true though. As amazing as eunchae is, the girl has nothing going on for her other than her marketable "maknae" personality. She doesn't have any other defining performance factor. She's got a nice tone but she is far from being the best or even second best singer in her group, she doesn't have the best stage presence and she's not a rapper either. She is cute though. And ofc this judgment is volatile since she has a long way to go and she does show improvements here and there each comeback. I'll just chalk it up to the fact that she was debuted too young. Let's face it, she's a minor, how much can you expect from a child anyway? The whole point is, her fans have absolutely nothing else they can overpraise her for (as fans do) other than she's the youngest and she's cute. Agree to disagree.
Kpop stans are hypocrites. They say its wrong to stan an idol for their visuals, and that talent is above anything else, then the next second these same stans obsess over a maknae saying a mildly funny thing and make it their entire personality.
Funny how this Chanel who’s a dive criticizing eunuchs for only being known for being a maknea while wonyoung is the same started her care with the same role then continue with getting attention for her looks where’s the different? Just say u r triggered by Eunchae hype.
@@Your.wet..pantiesCrazy how no one even brung Wonyoung up yet you still got her name in ur mouth. You can’t even think of a comeback so you use Wonyoung because u don’t have anything to say, typical fearnot dok dok.
@@Your.wet..pantiesso what? You're also a fearnot hating on wonyoung for no reason. Just say you're also triggered by her hype. Otherwise you wouldn't be worked up about replying everytime lol
@@loversland4947 lol I thought I’m talking with mature people and didn’t need to bring some sarcastic comeback and just brought as an example how you fav wonyoung was the same as Eunchae in the past as still get hype for some trivial things as Eunchae like her looks but I guess I was wrong you’re just some loser who need a comeback fight to feel better
@@yerious. lol a typical loser diveu, if you think me comparing wonyoung case with Eunchae is hate then this whole video and comments r also hate to Eunchae. This is only prove how you all want to play victim card. so its fine if you criticize Eunchae for getting attention for her maknea image but god forbidd us to also bring wonyoung who like her get attention for her visual and was an idol in the past who got many attention for being maknea 😂😂😂 you all need a brain I’m out of this video bc it’s becoming a dirty hellhole i will lose my brain cells if I continue with all of you. Continue your petty ranting like it’s going to change anything😆😆
Sometimes I feel like MOA do this to Huening Kai. most the time when you see a video about him its about how cute and baby like he is. I also think that the personality was pushed on him to some extent by his company. Yes I'm sure he really is just a happy fun person some maybe even most of the time, but the members have said that he isn't always that way and he's actually quite introverted. I also think that because he is the youngest his talents get overshadowed, like he is really talented but sometimes it seems that the only thing people notice is that he's cute and energetic. It has gotten batter recently though I think because he's started to act less like the cute baby and is more serious now then he was before and maybe his talents are getting shown more then before, or it could be that he's seen as an older brother now because we've seen him interact with hiyyah. Idk these are my thoughts.
As a hyuka stan I agree like people only talk about him being the maknae in reality he's actually very talented and it pisses me off when people correct me when I say dn he's so charismatic or he's so powerful they will be like nah he's very cute blah blah blah 🥲💀like fr people just don't wanna acknowledge that side . Anyways now some people are opening their eyes gladly 🙌🏻
@@johnstheticYES like the people who say that probably aren't real fans and only know txt to some extent like have they not heard his vocals in skipping stones???
Finally! Someone that speaks truth. It is weird not to say the least. And sadly it stifles the person's artistical growth. If they want to do adult or mature things they get hated upon just because they want to act their age. And the not being able to date and once they do it becomes a "scandle." What you said was exactly on my mind as well. 👏👏👏 thank you for making this vid.
Some of you must have skipped grade school and have awful reading comprehension skills because how is pointing out double standards between Leeseo and Eunchae the same thing as hating on Eunchae? Fearnots are seriously playing dumb on purpose at this point 😂
I missed the point where it’s Eunchae or leeserafim problem if Leeseo doesn’t get treated like Eunchae. It’s her problem if her personality isn’t interesting. This whole vid sound like a petty rant a dive did after she got triggered of Eunchae hype.
@@purpleeyebrows19 Eunchae’s performance at mama 2023 today proved her talent so this video is wrong as hell keep whining Diveu get triggered more 😂😂😂 do you think I’ve company will even send Leeseo to perform alone in a big show like mama? No 😂😂😂 so shutup about this
Seriously, this is so irritating bcuz maknaes for the most part aren't even like 5 or 6 years younger. They're pretty much around the same age group as the other members, yet you know idols themselves project out, as maknae being a personality. Same thing with mbti, like seriously why are they so crazy about it? Carl jung himself said that mbti cannot cover the whole spectrum of human personality, yet every idol keeps on talking about mbti like it's a very important part of someone's personality. 😂
my biggest problem with this video is that you come looking at this topic with an western lens. age dynamics are much more important in asia and should not be forgotten when discussing this topic. in korea, maknaes are "assigned" that position in friend groups, work spaces, families, basically everywhere. it's not special to kpop groups, therefore your points don't really hold up and are quite big reaches and/or conclusions that don't relate to the main topic. even after my critiques, i do agree in some parts. people do flatten idols, who are complex humans, into one dimensional personalities like "maknae", "shy one", "extra" etc. but this is not limited to the maknae topic.
Yes, but then again, there are minors that get hated on because they don't act like a maknae, and I bet you a lot of people that do that are probably not korean or even asain. Also, I doubt in any other workplace or space. There are thousands of people comparing you to another maknae, then decided to shame you because their supposedly better. My perception of the topic overall was that there shouldn't be minors receiving hate because of a maknae postion.
@@baj3882 then it's not the maknae concept that's the issue, more so the people. overall we are on the same page. in many workplaces the youngest are in the worst position, getting huge workloads by their superiors who don't care to do it themselves, running errands that isn't even part of their work etc. the youngest (children especially) have historically always been seen less than, and have been treated wrong. some of these sentiments are still held by society, which is why it's so hard to change these things and why you can see it everywhere, even in kpop fandom spaces. wow i went on a tangent, but it was fun explaining how i see it.
I'm thinking about how y'all hated leeseo for "not be maknae enough" and just cancelled her to ther kpop maknae. It always her who is left away when kpop stan talk abt (ive,nj,lsfrm,nmixx) maknae. I remember last year when they do a collab togheter and guess what?! kpop stan acted like she is not a part of it and always praising other like " eunchae,hyein,etc... slayed) yeahhhh.... they make maknae a such important position that is like you have weak and best maknae. When is just being the younguest. Kpop stan forced leeseo to act "mature" bc she acted "cute" lasy year (when she is only 15) but when it was eunchae for example is always "why other maknae don't act like that?!" "oh she act her age" okkay but i have to tell you that not everyone is like her. And without hating if leeseo acted like her she will be probably be more hated and called "pick me" knowing is her the younguest. Now in 2023 Leeseo is in high school she is 16 and she start to act more mature. She said herself that she want to do that bc she is a highschooler (and i understand that) now she seem to avoiad acting cute or all thing like that ( i think is due the hate and her personnal choice). HERE ppl start dragging her with eunchae that "they do a maknae their personality" i have to tell you that YOU cancelled leeseo for thing she never do and praised other. Why are you swith up?! is your fault if you love eunchae only for being the maknae. (is so weird.) Not time ago IVE started they world tour and Leeseo choosed "Woman Like me" to cover with Yujin. And GUESS WHAT?! Kpop stan "wake up" and saying that this girls is a minors and she shouldn't cover this. First where are you when all internet cyberbullyed,blacklashed,cancelled,being racist,calling her pick me,sending her death treat,s&xualised her for years?! they used this to drag her bc ppl start praising her what a shame. (ps: the song talk about women power ) is well choosen. love you Leeseo and Eunchae.
The fact this is even a topic just goes to show how deranged the kpop community is becoming nowadays. Like ppl are really out here comparing the youth of 2 teenage girls does that not sound weird as hell to anyone.
Because of this maknae thing people starting to say maknaes just here to act cute and they are talentless. This also affects idols with cute, soft personality . Some people that doesnt know the member can asume that the member is talentless just because she / he is cute funyy and maknae. Example: huening kai He is cute soft , funny but he has so many talent too.
I think the maknae title is there because of the hierarchy and seniority that is prevalent in Korea and Asia in general, there's always the youngest title for East Asian groups (sometimes even Southeast Asian groups). It's just weird that fans from other countries especially those from the other side of the world made this youngest title into a personality trait because every youngest member is not going to be the same chaotic cutie pie in every variety and radio show they attend (but then again there are also companies that are pushing for this especially for this new gen, so no wonder their young fans are eating it up).
I.N is a lead vocalist and the third best after Seungmin and Han. I agree that hes more known for being the maknae than for his vocals. But that doesn't mean that he isnt talented
Oh…maknae is a part of Korean culture as a whole. Because most Eastern Asian cultures are based in respect for society, in a group setting it becomes the oldest responsibility to care for the youngest and the youngest to respect the older members. You see it more in Lesserafim because of the age gap. Because the majority of the team are Eunchae’s unnies, it’s their job to nurture her and allow her to savor her youth and enjoy being young. Socioculturally speaking, they all have an obligation to care for Eunchae as if she was their little sister. She needs to respect them as seniors but it impacts all of Korean culture, how they sit, eat, bow, it’s all ruled by the age of the person. So it may not be relevant in the West but as consumers of another culture we need to show humility through trying to understand their culture before insulting it. “In Korean culture, age is deemed an important factor in almost all areas of life. Generally speaking, the older you are, the better. (Of course excluding the small fact that the older you get, the closer to death you also get.) This is because in Korean, China and Japan among other Asian countries heavily influenced by confucianism, juniors are expected to show reverence to their seniors. This also applies to life in school. For example, if someone entered university before you, you, the hoobae (in Hangul: 후배) have to show them, the seonbae (선배) respect and you are, in a sense, considered “lower” than them. The true nature of this type of interaction and relationship is of course much more complex than this and it’s not like the older person is allowed to freely disrespect anyone younger than him or her. This is just to illustrate the importance of age in the Korean culture.”-What Does Maknae Mean in Korean? - 막내 Kimchi Cloud | February 9, 2015 | 1 Comment | Everyday Korean
Honestly I see what you mean by this an example of an inside joke that goes around in a Kpop group is Treasure. Here and there Teumes and Treasure joke around about family roles for example Jihoon and Hyunsuk being the parents of their chaotic family but this is never taken to the extent where the fandom wants to go to other groups compare and bully a member bc they don't fit the role of what people play them out to be.
Or like in Super Junior when Kyuhyun joined the group late, Ryeowook still called and introduced himself as the maknae even though Kyuhyun is younger. Even when they got into Super Junior-M subunit, Henry became the maknae yet Kyuhyun and Ryeowook still the maknaes. I remember that one time when a lot of their members went to military, eventually making Siwon the maknae and every members were like, EWWW lol
Tbh, when i started to have interest in Kpop and learn about everything, I was so confused about this position. I really wondered why it`s so important who is the youngest and why it`s so important that it needs an own position. But after all these years being a kpop stan I still can`t understand why korean people are so obsessed with the youngest in a group like you said in the beginning of the video in the west no one cares about stuff like that.
i mostly agree with you to me basicaly giving the maknae as position is not a problem it self because age is more big deal and cultural thing in korea and mostly in east asia than in the west, the problem is what the fans espacially the western fans did with that and the result of their actions, because they make a big deal about while it unecessary and stupid.
Don't take things seriously lmao. Idk, living in asia, it's usual for us in friend group to have the 'mother' of the group or the 'father of the group. That's like...normal? Idk why you're fussing about it. And I think this is not even exclusive for us Asian. I think I've seen westerners having this kind of friend group family relationship
@@Turtle-lan Excuse me, where in Asia? I am Chinese born and raised, and there is nothing weird to call friends sister or brother. But mother? That's just weird
@amiboacid7183 no. The friend won't call their other friend mom or something but usually just like, "yeah she's like the "mom" in our group". And you act like those kpop dudes directly call their other members, "mom"
For families tho you do kind of put emphasis on them being the youngest, when you introduce yourselves you say who is the oldest and who is the youngest. I do agree with everything that you said and something I just wanted to mention is when people take the maknae of a group and title the video ‘*idol* being the maknae’ and then it’s cute moments of that idol. I don’t have a problem with those videos because the maknae is the youngest aka the baby and babies are cute so it makes sense to make videos like that and they do that with all maknaes even the ones that act mature most of the time. Just wanna know your thoughts on that.
It's surprising how no one ever spoke about Lisa and her maknae personality or Jungkook...they are literally adults and everyone babies them too Besides, why is the comparison always between Leeseo and Eunchae? Why not Kyujin? or someone else Eunchae gives Yeri vibes She's playful but also incredibly mature She's talented and everything You should be sympathizing with Eunchae because attention is not given to her talent, not because of her personality which people love of her, smh
It's not like Dives are fuming because Eunchae's getting all the applause. It's more about this weird trend where Eunchae's hailed for things while Leeseo ends up catching heat for the same stuff. And guess who's leading the 'Leeseo's No Good' parade? Yep, it's Fearnots. It's like watching a topsy-turvy show of praise and blame, and honestly, it's a bit baffling...
I agree. Eunchae is actually really mature but playful just like you said. I dont get why people always say Eunchae gets babied when Lisa is 26 and still gets babied. I think people shouldn't compare Eunchae and Leeseo since they're literally friends. People do always compare Leeseo and Eunchae. I think dives always act like they're really innocent when they also hate on Eunchae. Its honestly annoying. I hope people start paying attention to Eunchaes talents. Its a good thing they praise her personality but they just completely ignore her talents which is so stupid.
@@Chaereallywon_1I know I’m late to this conversation but the difference between Lisa/Jungkook and Eunchae/Lesseo (more so Eunchae because I don’t know much about Lesseo) is that while Lisa and Jungkook a babied, their whole personalities are revolved around them being the maknae Lisa is 1/2 of the most popular members in BlackPink. She is known for her dancing/rapping (whether you like her dancing/rapping is a different story), and for her fashion sense. Jungkook is know for his dancing/singing and being one of the most popular members in BTS. Eunchae however (and this is no hate to her) is really know for being the maknae of Le sserafim.
I feel the same with Wonyoung I never see a post about her talent it's always her visuals or she's getting hated I can't even find out if she has talents because no one posts about it they only post about her looks before I even got fully into kpop she reminded me of Jia from singles inferno like a model, not a K-pop idol no one ever posts about her talents that really weird Just like eunchae its either her maknae or she's so cutee not her talents.
You probably wrong people start acknowaldege wonyoung idol ability and praising her for her profissialism. Many big name in korea like jyp, running man etc... talking about her being the perfect idol. Kpop stan talk abt her stage presence being just the best! + her being a songwritter for ive etc.I think that hater want people to only focus on her visual to discredit her.
Babe, Wonyoung has the best stage presence, good dancing, even writes some songs for IVE , her vocals may not be that good but she is improving , and everytime someone works with her they say that she’s the best hard working kpop idol. So what is ur point
Maknae is a position in a group. Just like leader, main dancer/vocalist/rapper, visual, center or (now dying) FOTG. So saying someone is "the maknaest to ever maknae" is like praising someone for being a good leader. For fulfilling their role in a group. I really like your channel, enjoy watching it a lot, but boy does it get tiring when you try to paint IVE as victims in every other video
Kpop stans are getting more braindead by the second omg... Maknae is not a position in the group. It literally just means youngest in the group. Nothing more nothing less. It's not a personality trait either. That's like someone going up to you and saying that your height makes you act a certain way. Saying random shit like this and pulling it outta your ass to make yourself seem smart isn't doing anything btw. All you're doing is embarrassing yourself. And IVE ARE victims and have been for almost two years. The industry has been using them as punching bags for absolutely no reason and people like you ignore it even though it's right there. Get a brain. 💀🙏
It’s different though, because having positions like leader, dancer, rapper and vocalist requires certain skills and these positions are given to the member that fits it best, while being the youngest is just something you happen to be regardless of your personality. The problem isn’t that maknae is a position, the problem is that it’s treated like a personality and yes, some maknaes get attacked for not “being maknae enough”. Also excuse me if i say it but the way y’all treat Eunchae as the standard of maknae and say she is the most maknae ever is cringe as hell.
Oh boy dives r so stupid so it’s okay for starship to use wonyoung visual and personal as a cute girl as a marketing strategie but god forbidd hype to use Eunchae hype as a maknea what a bullshit just say u all feeling triggered bc Leeseo doesn’t get the same attention
This is like the third time you've brought this up. It seems like you're just bitter that Leeseo doesn't get as much positive attention as Eunchae. You've mentioned it in one of your opinions videos already so why do you feel the need to make a whole separate video about it. I'm not saying that Leeseo should get hate. She's really talented and she hasn't done anything wrong, but if you feel annoyed at people that give Eunchae positive attention, then it's a you problem. (I'm not talking about the ones that compare and use it as ammunition for fan wars). The reason Eunchae is so popular for being the maknae is because she finally got to shine after Garam left the group. There's also a significant age gap between her and the other members. I do agree that the company may be leaning into this a little too much but you sound like a bitter Ive stan if you have to keep bringing this up over and over again.
They made a vid to delve into it deeper and this vid sums up literally everything yes eunchae got to shine more bc garam but has she rlly all ppl talk abt her is always related to her being a maknae aswell as rlly I don’t think eunchae contributes that much in Leserafim
@@kiskaekesaria I get that, and I do wish more people recognized her talents. I wouldn't say she doesn't contribute anything to lesserafim. She's pretty good at dancing and picking up choreo and she's the third best vocalist in the group rn
Yeah lol she’s being doing this all the time bringing some nonexistent double standards to paint ive as the victim bla bla like girl it’s not Eunchae problem if Leeseo get hate? What a petty Chanel.
@@johnsthetic the maknae title has been a thing that fans and artists love since H.O.T lolll… it’s something that’s been important in the industry since the beginning and if you dislike it.. then kpop isn’t for you.
I absolutely agree with you but at the same time i'm wondering if you would complain this much if leeseo had that title of the most loved maknae like eunchae because ive is you're favorite gg.love your content
The way fearnots almost “fetishize” the maknae title when it comes to eunchae needs to be studied. No other fandom has probably ever been this obsessed with the maknae position. It’s always “eunchae is the most maknae maknae ever” “eunchae best maknae” “eunchae is so maknae” like ok we get it, how about not reducing her to just being the youngest?
couldn't have said it better, i find it really odd how fearnots focus more on her persona than on her talent😓
Genuinely wondering, how is someone better at being young then another person?
Like I have never ever heard people acting like maknea was a serious title before Eunchae. Before maknea was just youngest person in a group, while Le Sserafim thinks maknea is a personality.
As a fearnot who has eunchae as her bias, this is ridiculous 💀
The fact that I came across a video says, "Other than being the maknae Eunchae brings nothing to Lesserafim," and you stating this blows my mind! She's has way more to her than being the maknae...
The maknae expectations are ridiculous. For example: Seohyun (SNSD's maknae) was denied so many iconic roles in movies/TV shows because the company thought they went against her youngest image. And there was backlash from some 'fans' when she started acting her age just because she was the maknae. Like, she's in her late 20's/early 30's? Is she supposed to act like a teenager her entire life? These idols are so much more than their age/role, but people take the maknae title and try to force all maknaes into a specific box even once the idols reach their 30's.
I heard she was supposed to be in Train To Busan is that true, are there any other roles she got offered?
@@foreversolely Yes, she was offered Train to Busan (Sohee's role) and Architecture 101 (Suzy's role) - these are the only ones I know of for sure and both movies went on to be huge.
Fearnots need to watch this video asap. Calling Eunchae the Maknae of Kpop is complete, pure idiocy when there’s legit so many idols younger than her active in the industry. For f’s sake Hyein of NJs is literally under the same corporation as Eunchae and she’s younger than her. Like please, stop obsessing over Eunchae’s maknae title cuz the moment she matures and passes 20 everyone’s gonna go “oMg I wAnT tHe oLd eUnChAe bAcK sHe’S nOt mAknAeInG aNyMoRe” - yeah, that’s cuz you refused to let this kid get older and develop into a young lady, and forgot to talk about her talent. That’s it, thank you for coming to my ted talk.
This is actually such a valid concern because i also think that one day, when she grows older and gets more mature, you best believe there will be people that won’t like to see that because they’ll be so attached to her baby-like image. This happened before to idols like jungkook and wonyoung: people loved their cute and youthful personality and now that they no longer act like young kids there are many stans complaining about how “they have changed”
@@soft4taengyeah like wonyoung didn’t start her career by the maknea image. Lol stop pretending to care u r just being petty bc Leeseo doesn’t get the same attention.
@@Your.wet..panties^^
It's rlly not that serious people js use it to refer to idols who display fun and youthful traits lmfao yall stans find a problem with everything pls go focus on actual issues rather than creating made up problems from completely innocent stuff
@@xiaorina It wouldn't be a big deal if Eunchae's stans didn't go out of their way to attack other Maknaes.
I think it's interesting how hard Eunchae is pushed as a maknae. In her MC position they have her opposite an older idol and they really play into the younger sister/older brother dynamic. In her star diary show she almost exclusively interviews older groups, with older members.
Within her group she is the youngest by a large margin. They often style her with youthful haircuts like pigtails, etc.
Clearly the korean public buys this concept though, I can't see why else maknae has been an "official" position in kpop this whole time.
If part of kpop is about trying to sell paradoxical relationships, perhaps the role of the maknae is to be the viewers' surrogate daughter, or younger sibling.
It is exactly that. Maknae position means branding yourself as a cute youngest sibling
You’re getting to deep into it like she doesn’t just interview groups that are older than her she’s 16/17 it’s obvious that a lot of idols are gonna be older than her she also interviewed idols that are the same age as her or maybe even younger she interviewed Liz and Leeseo,Kyujin,Bahiyyih they’re all either the same age as her or a few years older and for the hairstyles it’s common for maknaes to have that she talked about it with Leeseo they both said that they didn’t like it and prefer to style their hair the same way as their older members
Tbf, Garam was originally part of the group and she was just about 1 year older than Eunchae and let's be honestly, there isn't much difference between 15 and 16...
@@multifan6679fr
@@_Wonnielvrs Yeah exactly. Eunchae is actually quite mature.
This is exactly one of my problems with Fearnots.. Seriously being the maknae is not a freakin personality trait. They obsess over Eunchae being the “maknaest of maknaes” (which not only makes no sense, but is also laughable), I rarely see them praise her dancing, singing, her stage presence, etc. It’s like all they can reduce her to is being the youngest and cutest member. The amount of times they feel the need to compare her to other maknaes like Leeseo or Hyein and basically trash them because they don’t “act like a maknae”, when being a maknae doesn’t mean you have to act like a child. I fear that when Eunchae grows up and matures, people will start hating on her for either not “acting like a maknae” or because she “changed” (or both).
Ikr it’s like they completely forget abt her talents
What a double standards when wonyoung only get praised for her looks I never saw a dive do a whole vid essay about 😂 just say u all feelings triggered bc Eunchae got all the hype only u r complaining about others fandom r loving Eunchae. Keep being petty that’s why ppls hate ive.
@@Your.wet..panties Lol. People hate IVE because they have nothing better to do. And of course you’re only argument is “you’re jealous”. Try again, it’s getting old.
@@aeeeeeeeecid I can try honey, it’s funny how you dodged the wonyoung exemple and just brought some bullshit when did I say “jalouse” lol I said “triggered “ it must be the only word in ur dictionary, a typical diveu u r all famous of saying this word “jealous” every time someone criticize Ive. I will say it again why it’s a problem if Eunc is getting attention for her maknea position but it’s normal for wonyoung to be also the same but in different field “ visual/center” I never saw u complaining about it. Neither I saw a fearnot going out of their way to do a whole vid essay. Bc simple we don’t care. So why r u dives getting concerned about eunuchae this Chanel talking about this topic 3 times already, it’s clear they’re just being petty and making everything damn think about ive. the Leeseo hate already stopped it’s not like the past so why r u bringing this again do you feel annoyed by Eunchae’s hype ? Good keep getting triggered.
@@Your.wet..panties Okay and so what is Wonyoung gets praised for looks? She gets attacked for literally any and everything else.. And maybe because I don’t see dives trashing another idols visual to bring Wonyoung up. And nothing is wrong with praising Eunchae as a maknae, but that is all y’all do. I have never seen y’all praise her talents and I feel sorry she has fans who only care about her being a maknae and not how much of a talented girl she is. I’m not even a dive and I know you not talking about triggered when you’re the one writing a whole short story. Just say your toxic Fearnot and move on. Exactly why I won’t stan LSF because of Fearnots like you. How about you go do something productive with yourself..
If leeseo acts cute she get death threats hate etc, if eunchae acts cute she gets praised etc (no hate to eunchae)
The hate leeseo gets is annoying 💀
ikr 💀
to be honest i think a lot of fearnots can't handle the fact that in terms of talent eunchae is a filler member and brings barely anything to the group performance and music wise. (i say this as an eunchae biased fearnot by the way). in groups like ive, every member fits a purpose. yujin is the leader and brings a lot to the table in terms of vocals, dancing and performance. gaeul has a unique vocal and rapping tone, as well as being the best dancer. rei has a distinct rap tone and makes all of her lines iconic. wonyoung picks up brand promotions and starts tiktok challenges, as well as being the stan attractor, serving visuals and being an amazing performer. liz is by far the best vocalist and an amazing performer. leeseo has a unique performance and her stage presence is exponentially improving. each member has their own skillsets and their voices all bring something to ive. however in le sserafim eunchae doens't really bring anything of that kind to the table. she only got lines because garam was kicked out, her vocals are underdeveloped and they sound similar to sakura and kazuha's so she doesn't really stand out, she doesn't get rap lines, she's an above average dancer but she's also in a group with sakura and chaewon, le sserafim definitely isn't lacking in terms of dancing. while her stage presence is okay she fits brighter and more energetic concepts which le sserafim has only really done in no celestial and no-return. their other songs are more badass and sultry like fearless, antifragile, unforgiven and eve psyche and the bluebeard's wife, or elegant and classy like blue flame, impurities and perfect night. not to mention le sserafim's concept and choreographies don't fit her age that much with many moves that are inappropriate for minors. the only thing going for her that makes her stand out from the rest is her marketable persona as a fresh, innocent, shy and mischievious youth that's like a younger sister. other than that she has little remarkable talents that make her stand out from the rest of her group and so that's what every fearnot hyperfixates on as the only quality that they can really praise.
i agree with the fact that since eunchae doesnt stand out in anything skill wise, fearnot boasts her maknae title. but you're totally wrong about ive, there are fillers ☠️. remove gaeul and leeseo from the lineup and no one would bat an eye. and in what word are antifragile, unforgiven, and epatbw sultry??? i would even add fearless in the list. these songs require a more cool, tomboy, strong, and like you said badass energy that eunchae doesnt fit most of the time, but theyre not sultry at all not even a little bit. and she does fit pn energy the choreo is just weird.
I really don’t understand why r you talking about talent so what if she’s a filler member her fans r content with her. u just the problem, just being petty and criticizing to feel better about urself. Diveu being petty bc Leeseo doesn’t get the Sam attention as Eunchae
@2FullMoons lmao, never said that she isn’t skilled or that her future is doomed. im saying that as of right now she brings nothing which you disagree with, i just do not see ive being that impacted if she was never here.
Should've given another group as an example 💀
IVE do have filler members 😅
@@Your.wet..panties Leeseo is the reason why Eleven even started charting... Her close-up shot went viral and thats when the song started to chart lol. Love Dive, She went viral for her, "Narcissistic, My god I love it" part. Kitsch, She went viral for rapping Rei's part. Those are only a few examples. Meanwhile, Eunchae has only even gone viral for being the youngest. Also, How is she, "Relatable"? All she ever does is talk about how young she is.
My biggest problem is that when fandoms constantly baby the maknaes when they're grown adults in their 20s or 30s (Insomnias for example baby Gahyeon (DC's Maknae) when she is 24 yo) even when the idols themselves aren't comfortable with it
As an engene some engenes treat sunoo like a baby when he's in his 20s pretty weird right?
like you said it’s so true that kpop stans really push the family narrative onto groups and they take it too seriously, that’s why you have people expecting every maknae to fit their “role” and if they don’t they ain’t good enough
I think that one of the reasons for the hate on lesseo is majorly because she comes from IVE. If it was any other group, they wouldn't even bother her. Her hate is also rooted in Misogyny. And also since many people may not want to here it, IVE is the competition for the Big 4 girl groups. That is why they nitpick everything that the group does. Wonyoung Strawberry just breathing infact.
Liz gaining weight as if people don't understand that women's bodies go through variations
Yujin acting mature when she IS LITERALLY the leader of IVE
Gauel for just being their and yet she is a good dancer and contributes a lot to the group
REI for just being Japanese.
Fun fact: the girls are not going anywhere. 😭😭😭🤗🤗🤗. It doesn't hurt to be a fan.
It feels like Eunchae doesn't actually have anything going for her (besides being a maknae). Her dance is alright but Sakura, Chaewon and Kazuha really overshadow her. To praise her, like every fandom does with their idols, I think Fearnots just focus on her maknae title lol. I really hope that Eunchae can make a title of herself in the future that isn't just tied to her maknae position, she could make for a really good rapper (if trained good).
Eunchae really is just a filler member. If Garam was still in the group I guarantee Garam would've been the one being a music show host with her own show rn. Eunchae brings absolutely nothing to the group talent wise and is just there for her childish personality and visuals.
The fact that you say Kazuha outshines her in dance when she does the worst in their group songs says a lot. Eunchae in some songs even outdoes Sakura and Chaewon (who are overall the 2 strongest dancers). E,P&TB...is a good example of that. Sure, she doesn't have that explosive stage presence that Yunjin and Chaewon have, but she is still a great performer and balances the group out with her softer stage presence.I think it was everglowup, but she did a great job analysing Le sserafims stage presence, though it was OT6 back then and Eunchae was pushed to the side because of the concept being too mature (I think we all remember that scene it ghe fearless MV...).
Also, she is literally the 3rd best vocalist in the group...why is noone talking about that? She isn't the best, but she also isn't as bad as Sakura and Kazuha (sorry, but her live vocals in unforgiven for example....). She is decent, especially considering that she is from hybe,and does well live as well, yet noone seems to pay attention to it
I don't understand why she has always been pushed to the side and ignored. It was only after Garam left that HYBE gave her decent lines, center time, etc. The same goes to the fans...
@@24O325I really wish garam was the mc tbh
@@24O325 eunchae isnt a filler member, she brings alot of attention to the group which helps them gain popularity and visuals are a need in kpop because they are the face of the group and they are the member that people think of when they see the group.
As a wiz*one I remember how loved Wonyoung was as a maknae they would only talk about how adorable and bubbly she was “like a true maknae" and the day Wonyoung debuted in IVE another member became the maknae and Wony started pulling away from her maknae persona she received massive hate and a lot of people said "she changed" and when Wony did act cute and bubbly people started saying she was forcing it well of course she’s forcing it because y’all won’t leave her the fuck alone with the Maknae title
frrr like wonyoung is growing into a young adult--of course shes gonna be different from the group she was in when she was a teen w/ members older than her. She not "fake", shes just 19 now, not 14. When Eunchae becomes an adult, she's going to have that maknae title hanging above her head, and that's harmful. I rlly hope Eunchae will successfully grow without getting hate. Fearnots love her to death, but I wonder if they'll continue to if she ever changes?? As bad as that sounds, kpop stans rlly switch up faster than light. sorry for my long rant LMAO
@@pshfl You’re totally right I hated seeing people switch up on Wonyoung so quickly and hate her for being the way she is and I really don’t want that to happen to Manchae
Fearnots bu11y the sh1t out of leeseo and will cry about someone criticising eunchae saying she’s a child .leeseo is even younger than eunchae 😃this will never be okay to me
Imagine if we went around saying how are youngest sibling was better than someone else’s because “fulfill” the youngest roll the best 😭
"My younger brother shouts and kicks his feet when we don't get him a toy he wants,he's so maknae😜😜"
Your point about fandoms pushing roles onto them like mother, aunt, sister etc. Its not just the fandom, its the company who does this. Alot of ex idols have exposed this, that when you become an idol in a group they will assign your persona onto you and expect you to keep up appearances or do certain fanservice catered to these dynamics. If you are a multistan or been kpop for a while u will notice how many groups describe themselves and act in the EXACT same way in so much of their content. Its just weird because its like they reduce there personalities into a type of rigid persona.
its always about eunchae beinng the "most maknae maknae ever" or either "yunjin having the best personality in the group" like hello??
The family roleplay game with kpop groups lowkey makes me cringe. However, the maknae thing is part of the cultural age hierarchy of south korea. The older you are, the more respected you are and if you're the youngest, you're the baby of the group. I don't think there's anything wrong with it. Although I do agree that "maknae" shouldn't be one's entire personality. This problem is mostly seen with I-kpop stans rather than knetz. Mainly because I-fans' entire understanding of maknae is from their fave. The industry being ageist is 100% true though.
As amazing as eunchae is, the girl has nothing going on for her other than her marketable "maknae" personality. She doesn't have any other defining performance factor. She's got a nice tone but she is far from being the best or even second best singer in her group, she doesn't have the best stage presence and she's not a rapper either. She is cute though. And ofc this judgment is volatile since she has a long way to go and she does show improvements here and there each comeback. I'll just chalk it up to the fact that she was debuted too young. Let's face it, she's a minor, how much can you expect from a child anyway? The whole point is, her fans have absolutely nothing else they can overpraise her for (as fans do) other than she's the youngest and she's cute. Agree to disagree.
No fr like ma'am being a maknae just means youngest not acting like a child
I think that the fact that the title “fake maknae” exists reinforces these points so much
Kpop stans are hypocrites. They say its wrong to stan an idol for their visuals, and that talent is above anything else, then the next second these same stans obsess over a maknae saying a mildly funny thing and make it their entire personality.
Funny how this Chanel who’s a dive criticizing eunuchs for only being known for being a maknea while wonyoung is the same started her care with the same role then continue with getting attention for her looks where’s the different? Just say u r triggered by Eunchae hype.
@@Your.wet..pantiesCrazy how no one even brung Wonyoung up yet you still got her name in ur mouth. You can’t even think of a comeback so you use Wonyoung because u don’t have anything to say, typical fearnot dok dok.
@@Your.wet..pantiesso what? You're also a fearnot hating on wonyoung for no reason. Just say you're also triggered by her hype. Otherwise you wouldn't be worked up about replying everytime lol
@@loversland4947 lol I thought I’m talking with mature people and didn’t need to bring some sarcastic comeback and just brought as an example how you fav wonyoung was the same as Eunchae in the past as still get hype for some trivial things as Eunchae like her looks but I guess I was wrong you’re just some loser who need a comeback fight to feel better
@@yerious. lol a typical loser diveu, if you think me comparing wonyoung case with Eunchae is hate then this whole video and comments r also hate to Eunchae. This is only prove how you all want to play victim card. so its fine if you criticize Eunchae for getting attention for her maknea image but god forbidd us to also bring wonyoung who like her get attention for her visual and was an idol in the past who got many attention for being maknea 😂😂😂 you all need a brain I’m out of this video bc it’s becoming a dirty hellhole i will lose my brain cells if I continue with all of you. Continue your petty ranting like it’s going to change anything😆😆
REAL
I hate how people hate or like an idol based on the fact on how maknae-ey they act like tf
Sometimes I feel like MOA do this to Huening Kai. most the time when you see a video about him its about how cute and baby like he is. I also think that the personality was pushed on him to some extent by his company. Yes I'm sure he really is just a happy fun person some maybe even most of the time, but the members have said that he isn't always that way and he's actually quite introverted. I also think that because he is the youngest his talents get overshadowed, like he is really talented but sometimes it seems that the only thing people notice is that he's cute and energetic. It has gotten batter recently though I think because he's started to act less like the cute baby and is more serious now then he was before and maybe his talents are getting shown more then before, or it could be that he's seen as an older brother now because we've seen him interact with hiyyah. Idk these are my thoughts.
As a hyuka stan I agree like people only talk about him being the maknae in reality he's actually very talented and it pisses me off when people correct me when I say dn he's so charismatic or he's so powerful they will be like nah he's very cute blah blah blah 🥲💀like fr people just don't wanna acknowledge that side . Anyways now some people are opening their eyes gladly 🙌🏻
@@johnstheticYES like the people who say that probably aren't real fans and only know txt to some extent like have they not heard his vocals in skipping stones???
@@AKKONGMCS 😭like yesssss
Finally! Someone that speaks truth. It is weird not to say the least. And sadly it stifles the person's artistical growth. If they want to do adult or mature things they get hated upon just because they want to act their age. And the not being able to date and once they do it becomes a "scandle." What you said was exactly on my mind as well. 👏👏👏 thank you for making this vid.
Some of you must have skipped grade school and have awful reading comprehension skills because how is pointing out double standards between Leeseo and Eunchae the same thing as hating on Eunchae?
Fearnots are seriously playing dumb on purpose at this point 😂
literally
I missed the point where it’s Eunchae or leeserafim problem if Leeseo doesn’t get treated like Eunchae. It’s her problem if her personality isn’t interesting. This whole vid sound like a petty rant a dive did after she got triggered of Eunchae hype.
@Moonyardi you sound slow as fuck
@@purpleeyebrows19 Eunchae’s performance at mama 2023 today proved her talent so this video is wrong as hell keep whining Diveu get triggered more 😂😂😂 do you think I’ve company will even send Leeseo to perform alone in a big show like mama? No 😂😂😂 so shutup about this
@@Your.wet..pantiesEunchaes hype ? pls why would dives be jealous of lsf when IVE is literally more popular than them u sound crazy
Maknaes are either outstanding or just a maknae
thats literally jongho vs eunchae
Seriously, this is so irritating bcuz maknaes for the most part aren't even like 5 or 6 years younger. They're pretty much around the same age group as the other members, yet you know idols themselves project out, as maknae being a personality.
Same thing with mbti, like seriously why are they so crazy about it? Carl jung himself said that mbti cannot cover the whole spectrum of human personality, yet every idol keeps on talking about mbti like it's a very important part of someone's personality. 😂
MBTI is just a trend in Korea nowadays. Same as blood type a couple of years ago
my biggest problem with this video is that you come looking at this topic with an western lens. age dynamics are much more important in asia and should not be forgotten when discussing this topic.
in korea, maknaes are "assigned" that position in friend groups, work spaces, families, basically everywhere.
it's not special to kpop groups, therefore your points don't really hold up and are quite big reaches and/or conclusions that don't relate to the main topic.
even after my critiques, i do agree in some parts. people do flatten idols, who are complex humans, into one dimensional personalities like "maknae", "shy one", "extra" etc. but this is not limited to the maknae topic.
Yes, but then again, there are minors that get hated on because they don't act like a maknae, and I bet you a lot of people that do that are probably not korean or even asain. Also, I doubt in any other workplace or space. There are thousands of people comparing you to another maknae, then decided to shame you because their supposedly better. My perception of the topic overall was that there shouldn't be minors receiving hate because of a maknae postion.
@@baj3882 then it's not the maknae concept that's the issue, more so the people. overall we are on the same page. in many workplaces the youngest are in the worst position, getting huge workloads by their superiors who don't care to do it themselves, running errands that isn't even part of their work etc.
the youngest (children especially) have historically always been seen less than, and have been treated wrong. some of these sentiments are still held by society, which is why it's so hard to change these things and why you can see it everywhere, even in kpop fandom spaces.
wow i went on a tangent, but it was fun explaining how i see it.
Fearnots brain 🧠:
Brings up double standards = hating on Eunchae
Exactly
I'm thinking about how y'all hated leeseo for "not be maknae enough" and just cancelled her to ther kpop maknae. It always her who is left away when kpop stan talk abt (ive,nj,lsfrm,nmixx) maknae. I remember last year when they do a collab togheter and guess what?! kpop stan acted like she is not a part of it and always praising other like " eunchae,hyein,etc... slayed) yeahhhh.... they make maknae a such important position that is like you have weak and best maknae. When is just being the younguest. Kpop stan forced leeseo to act "mature" bc she acted "cute" lasy year (when she is only 15) but when it was eunchae for example is always "why other maknae don't act like that?!" "oh she act her age" okkay but i have to tell you that not everyone is like her. And without hating if leeseo acted like her she will be probably be more hated and called "pick me" knowing is her the younguest. Now in 2023 Leeseo is in high school she is 16 and she start to act more mature. She said herself that she want to do that bc she is a highschooler (and i understand that) now she seem to avoiad acting cute or all thing like that ( i think is due the hate and her personnal choice). HERE ppl start dragging her with eunchae that "they do a maknae their personality" i have to tell you that YOU cancelled leeseo for thing she never do and praised other. Why are you swith up?! is your fault if you love eunchae only for being the maknae. (is so weird.) Not time ago IVE started they world tour and Leeseo choosed "Woman Like me" to cover with Yujin. And GUESS WHAT?! Kpop stan "wake up" and saying that this girls is a minors and she shouldn't cover this. First where are you when all internet cyberbullyed,blacklashed,cancelled,being racist,calling her pick me,sending her death treat,s&xualised her for years?! they used this to drag her bc ppl start praising her what a shame. (ps: the song talk about women power ) is well choosen. love you Leeseo and Eunchae.
The fact this is even a topic just goes to show how deranged the kpop community is becoming nowadays. Like ppl are really out here comparing the youth of 2 teenage girls does that not sound weird as hell to anyone.
Great videos as always ❤
Because of this maknae thing people starting to say maknaes just here to act cute and they are talentless. This also affects idols with cute, soft personality . Some people that doesnt know the member can asume that the member is talentless just because she / he is cute funyy and maknae. Example: huening kai
He is cute soft , funny but he has so many talent too.
I think the maknae title is there because of the hierarchy and seniority that is prevalent in Korea and Asia in general, there's always the youngest title for East Asian groups (sometimes even Southeast Asian groups). It's just weird that fans from other countries especially those from the other side of the world made this youngest title into a personality trait because every youngest member is not going to be the same chaotic cutie pie in every variety and radio show they attend (but then again there are also companies that are pushing for this especially for this new gen, so no wonder their young fans are eating it up).
I think its just a curiosity thing. I always look up whos not only the youngest but the oldest as well. I look up all members ages.
Same.
both i.n and eunchae seem like they're only known for their title as maknae 😭
But i.n is actually talented
I.N is a lead vocalist and the third best after Seungmin and Han.
I agree that hes more known for being the maknae than for his vocals.
But that doesn't mean that he isnt talented
ikr
Oh…maknae is a part of Korean culture as a whole. Because most Eastern Asian cultures are based in respect for society, in a group setting it becomes the oldest responsibility to care for the youngest and the youngest to respect the older members.
You see it more in Lesserafim because of the age gap. Because the majority of the team are Eunchae’s unnies, it’s their job to nurture her and allow her to savor her youth and enjoy being young. Socioculturally speaking, they all have an obligation to care for Eunchae as if she was their little sister. She needs to respect them as seniors but it impacts all of Korean culture, how they sit, eat, bow, it’s all ruled by the age of the person. So it may not be relevant in the West but as consumers of another culture we need to show humility through trying to understand their culture before insulting it.
“In Korean culture, age is deemed an important factor in almost all areas of life. Generally speaking, the older you are, the better. (Of course excluding the small fact that the older you get, the closer to death you also get.) This is because in Korean, China and Japan among other Asian countries heavily influenced by confucianism, juniors are expected to show reverence to their seniors. This also applies to life in school. For example, if someone entered university before you, you, the hoobae (in Hangul: 후배) have to show them, the seonbae (선배) respect and you are, in a sense, considered “lower” than them. The true nature of this type of interaction and relationship is of course much more complex than this and it’s not like the older person is allowed to freely disrespect anyone younger than him or her. This is just to illustrate the importance of age in the Korean culture.”-What Does Maknae Mean in Korean? - 막내
Kimchi Cloud | February 9, 2015 | 1 Comment | Everyday Korean
Thank you 👏
When will u be back
Honestly I see what you mean by this an example of an inside joke that goes around in a Kpop group is Treasure. Here and there Teumes and Treasure joke around about family roles for example Jihoon and Hyunsuk being the parents of their chaotic family but this is never taken to the extent where the fandom wants to go to other groups compare and bully a member bc they don't fit the role of what people play them out to be.
What happeneds when a group changes the maknae. Like in red velvet when yeri joined or in lightsum when the youngest left. When happens than.
Or like in Super Junior when Kyuhyun joined the group late, Ryeowook still called and introduced himself as the maknae even though Kyuhyun is younger. Even when they got into Super Junior-M subunit, Henry became the maknae yet Kyuhyun and Ryeowook still the maknaes.
I remember that one time when a lot of their members went to military, eventually making Siwon the maknae and every members were like, EWWW lol
The amount of people in this comment section that are uninformed about Korean culture yet appear to consume it regularly is unsettling.
You good? We haven't gotten a video from you in a bit. Hope you're doing well!
Tbh, when i started to have interest in Kpop and learn about everything, I was so confused about this position. I really wondered why it`s so important who is the youngest and why it`s so important that it needs an own position. But after all these years being a kpop stan I still can`t understand why korean people are so obsessed with the youngest in a group like you said in the beginning of the video in the west no one cares about stuff like that.
Prob culture. But even then, It's confusing as all hell.
i mostly agree with you
to me basicaly giving the maknae as position is not a problem it self because age is more big deal and cultural thing in korea and mostly in east asia than in the west,
the problem is what the fans espacially the western fans did with that and the result of their actions, because they make a big deal about while it unecessary and stupid.
finally somebody says it
i think after garam situation hybe just didn't know how to do with eunchae cuz they're bad at managing so they pushed the mkanae title
Kpop stans calling a member the "mother" of the group when all members are 2-3 years apart, is one of the grossest things I've ever seen.
Don't take things seriously lmao. Idk, living in asia, it's usual for us in friend group to have the 'mother' of the group or the 'father of the group. That's like...normal? Idk why you're fussing about it. And I think this is not even exclusive for us Asian. I think I've seen westerners having this kind of friend group family relationship
@@Turtle-lan Excuse me, where in Asia? I am Chinese born and raised, and there is nothing weird to call friends sister or brother. But mother? That's just weird
@amiboacid7183 no. The friend won't call their other friend mom or something but usually just like, "yeah she's like the "mom" in our group". And you act like those kpop dudes directly call their other members, "mom"
@@Turtle-lan not at all what I said. I said FANS calling members “mother with X number of children” is gross.
@amiboacid7183 really? Millions of cringey kpop stan quotes and you choose to complain that?
For families tho you do kind of put emphasis on them being the youngest, when you introduce yourselves you say who is the oldest and who is the youngest. I do agree with everything that you said and something I just wanted to mention is when people take the maknae of a group and title the video ‘*idol* being the maknae’ and then it’s cute moments of that idol. I don’t have a problem with those videos because the maknae is the youngest aka the baby and babies are cute so it makes sense to make videos like that and they do that with all maknaes even the ones that act mature most of the time. Just wanna know your thoughts on that.
totally agree with everything on this account
They trynna push that “nation’s sister” narrative
It's surprising how no one ever spoke about Lisa and her maknae personality or Jungkook...they are literally adults and everyone babies them too
Besides, why is the comparison always between Leeseo and Eunchae? Why not Kyujin? or someone else
Eunchae gives Yeri vibes
She's playful but also incredibly mature
She's talented and everything
You should be sympathizing with Eunchae because attention is not given to her talent, not because of her personality which people love of her, smh
It's not like Dives are fuming because Eunchae's getting all the applause. It's more about this weird trend where Eunchae's hailed for things while Leeseo ends up catching heat for the same stuff. And guess who's leading the 'Leeseo's No Good' parade? Yep, it's Fearnots. It's like watching a topsy-turvy show of praise and blame, and honestly, it's a bit baffling...
I agree. Eunchae is actually really mature but playful just like you said. I dont get why people always say Eunchae gets babied when Lisa is 26 and still gets babied. I think people shouldn't compare Eunchae and Leeseo since they're literally friends. People do always compare Leeseo and Eunchae. I think dives always act like they're really innocent when they also hate on Eunchae. Its honestly annoying. I hope people start paying attention to Eunchaes talents. Its a good thing they praise her personality but they just completely ignore her talents which is so stupid.
@@Chaereallywon_1I know I’m late to this conversation but the difference between Lisa/Jungkook and Eunchae/Lesseo (more so Eunchae because I don’t know much about Lesseo) is that while Lisa and Jungkook a babied, their whole personalities are revolved around them being the maknae Lisa is 1/2 of the most popular members in BlackPink. She is known for her dancing/rapping (whether you like her dancing/rapping is a different story), and for her fashion sense. Jungkook is know for his dancing/singing and being one of the most popular members in BTS. Eunchae however (and this is no hate to her) is really know for being the maknae of Le sserafim.
@@haleyhutchinson8302 Yeah and what I'm trying to say is that people should pay more attention to her talents lol.
I feel the same with Wonyoung I never see a post about her talent it's always her visuals or she's getting hated I can't even find out if she has talents because no one posts about it they only post about her looks before I even got fully into kpop she reminded me of Jia from singles inferno like a model, not a K-pop idol no one ever posts about her talents that really weird Just like eunchae its either her maknae or she's so cutee not her talents.
You probably wrong people start acknowaldege wonyoung idol ability and praising her for her profissialism. Many big name in korea like jyp, running man etc... talking about her being the perfect idol. Kpop stan talk abt her stage presence being just the best! + her being a songwritter for ive etc.I think that hater want people to only focus on her visual to discredit her.
I'm glad I hope she continues to grow.@@Liz-jc3fz
Babe, Wonyoung has the best stage presence, good dancing, even writes some songs for IVE , her vocals may not be that good but she is improving , and everytime someone works with her they say that she’s the best hard working kpop idol. So what is ur point
I never said she wasn't hard working I said no one ever posts about her talents or anything only about her visuals so what's your point?@@yerious.
@@_sxnnymya157 So what if they post about her visuals ? we dives know that Wonyoung is talented already so what is ur point ?
I never new this was the issue in kpop
Are you gonna come back soon?
Maknae is a position in a group. Just like leader, main dancer/vocalist/rapper, visual, center or (now dying) FOTG. So saying someone is "the maknaest to ever maknae" is like praising someone for being a good leader. For fulfilling their role in a group.
I really like your channel, enjoy watching it a lot, but boy does it get tiring when you try to paint IVE as victims in every other video
Kpop stans are getting more braindead by the second omg... Maknae is not a position in the group. It literally just means youngest in the group. Nothing more nothing less. It's not a personality trait either. That's like someone going up to you and saying that your height makes you act a certain way. Saying random shit like this and pulling it outta your ass to make yourself seem smart isn't doing anything btw. All you're doing is embarrassing yourself. And IVE ARE victims and have been for almost two years. The industry has been using them as punching bags for absolutely no reason and people like you ignore it even though it's right there. Get a brain. 💀🙏
@@fny09kpop-nj7ks exactly!! No one is calling being a dancer a personality trait so why are we saying that about maknae lmao
It’s different though, because having positions like leader, dancer, rapper and vocalist requires certain skills and these positions are given to the member that fits it best, while being the youngest is just something you happen to be regardless of your personality. The problem isn’t that maknae is a position, the problem is that it’s treated like a personality and yes, some maknaes get attacked for not “being maknae enough”. Also excuse me if i say it but the way y’all treat Eunchae as the standard of maknae and say she is the most maknae ever is cringe as hell.
Oh boy dives r so stupid so it’s okay for starship to use wonyoung visual and personal as a cute girl as a marketing strategie but god forbidd hype to use Eunchae hype as a maknea what a bullshit just say u all feeling triggered bc Leeseo doesn’t get the same attention
Eunchae living rent free in the minds of all dives 😂😂😂 eunchae on top
Fearnuts thinking that bringing double standards mean someone is hating on Eunchae is crazy IVE on top
@@yerious. I never once said the word hate. I think the proper word to be used, is obsessed.
Maybe if fearnots learned to praise her without dragging others, Then we wouldn't have her "living rent free" in our heads. 🙄🙄
@@Welchs-Fruit-Snacksman this matter ended a decade ago now you’re bringing it up ? LS doing their shit and Ive the same and you still stuck here ? 💀
@@AreolaGrandeXD Oh I think your talking about fearnuts being obsessed with IVE..
This is an east asian thing, applying a western mindset on it is dumb.
This is like the third time you've brought this up. It seems like you're just bitter that Leeseo doesn't get as much positive attention as Eunchae.
You've mentioned it in one of your opinions videos already so why do you feel the need to make a whole separate video about it.
I'm not saying that Leeseo should get hate. She's really talented and she hasn't done anything wrong, but if you feel annoyed at people that give Eunchae positive attention, then it's a you problem. (I'm not talking about the ones that compare and use it as ammunition for fan wars).
The reason Eunchae is so popular for being the maknae is because she finally got to shine after Garam left the group. There's also a significant age gap between her and the other members. I do agree that the company may be leaning into this a little too much but you sound like a bitter Ive stan if you have to keep bringing this up over and over again.
They made a vid to delve into it deeper and this vid sums up literally everything yes eunchae got to shine more bc garam but has she rlly all ppl talk abt her is always related to her being a maknae aswell as rlly I don’t think eunchae contributes that much in Leserafim
@@kiskaekesaria I get that, and I do wish more people recognized her talents. I wouldn't say she doesn't contribute anything to lesserafim. She's pretty good at dancing and picking up choreo and she's the third best vocalist in the group rn
Yeah lol she’s being doing this all the time bringing some nonexistent double standards to paint ive as the victim bla bla like girl it’s not Eunchae problem if Leeseo get hate? What a petty Chanel.
@@DannieT-qu8xn yeah but compared to the other members she wouldn’t really stand out
@@Your.wet..pantiesSays the one who would take up for lsf for lip syncing and then drag IVE for doing the same thing ☠️
If you have such a problem with maknae stereotypes and aegyo then kpop isn’t for u lmao
Lmaoo why are you so pressed 💀💀no-one is taking the maknae title as serious as fearnots 🗿"k-pop isn't for you" lmaoo 🤣🤣🤣
@@johnsthetic the maknae title has been a thing that fans and artists love since H.O.T lolll… it’s something that’s been important in the industry since the beginning and if you dislike it.. then kpop isn’t for you.
Kpop isn't always aegyo and bubble gum
I absolutely agree with you but at the same time i'm wondering if you would complain this much if leeseo had that title of the most loved maknae like eunchae because ive is you're favorite gg.love your content