orianna's another victim of the mobility creep. during her days, dashes are rare so it was easy for her to use the ball to continually poke you. in today's league landscape. with the amount of champions(and items) with dashes, it's just too easy to just keep your distance from the ball as it doesn't have crowd control outside of her ultimate
It's like a boxer who can only jab and leave their arm out only to be open for counter shots. If we could re adjust Orianna, I wish her ball could be recovered more quickly so she could poke more often so that even when her mobile opponents dodge one attack there is a 2nd attack to worry about.
@@medvedik__9989until anivia complete RoA and Seraph. She's a pretty fragile champ. Her hp is just too low, slower mobility with more slower skill shot. The passive was there to let her have a second chance for early game when most of the enemies are in their lower stats. Tbh I still prefer Orianna for early game. But if I need some serious neutral game then Anivia might be the best option along with Malz.
She became too hard to play not because of the champion but every single matchup against are different. There's just too many annoying assassin that you have to play differently.
This combined with her lane bully style makes her playstyle a lot more difficult to pull off nowadays. She's just too hard of a champion now for most newer players to want to play her sadly, so her playerbase just slowly dwindles as she continually loses her increasingly older player base
She is boring and her survivability is fairly low. Xerath, syndra and lux, being also very immobile champs, have better self peel because of their instant cc on a basic ability. Also syndra and lux can burst you and xerath feels that he can poke from 2 screens away
Something people usually don't talk about is her base stats being some of the lowest in the game. Usually is not noticed because she has passives that put them to other champions standards: She has one of the lowest base ad, but her passive buffs her autos deal the same dmg any other mid laner would deal early game. This means that, at least early game, she doesnt have a passive, and when this passive actually makes her have some auto dmg compared to other mages, you're not gonna auto as orianna. She has some of the lowest resistances early in the game (Yuumi level armor and mr), but her e has some passive resistances to help her match everyone. This means if u manage to trade with her when she can't get the ball on herself, she's taking close to 10% more dmg than any other mid laner would. Add this to her q still having that 30% dmg reduction after the first collision, and u get a "scaling" champ whose only way to pressure early is aery spam that gets outscaled by every other dmg dealer.
It's honestly really frustrating. I don't get why riot adds these. Isn't the point of these passives to be "bonuses"? When you decrease her stats to compensate, they stop being bonuses, they just make her EQUAL to other champions. I'd like for riot to do away with this stuff, maybe change her passive completely
@@dde8721 passives being basically a 5th ability wasnt as much of a thing when she came out. when ori was released her passive was decent because, like everyone else is saying, there was less overal mobility in the game so she could keep enemies in one spot for longer than she can now which gave her time to auto them and genuinely benefit from the extra damage. the fact that she could use her abillities from far away with relative safety through the ball made for her lower stats quite a bit imo but ofc now, theres so much mobility that enemies can just dash up to you and kill you before the ball even makes it back in time to actually combo. she definitely needs a passive change and honestly maybe just a very soft rework. there are so many things you could do with her, make her passive stacking mr reduction to reward oris who kite well and survive long or maybe make it that she gets a little movement speed when the ball returns to her or maybe if she autos a champion and the dash within like 1.5 seconds of being auto'd by her, they take a little bit of damage or get a little slow. just something, anything lmao.
Ever tried conqueror on her? Ori on WR can trade VERY WELL with most other champs. Since her passive gives bonus magic damage on her AA she can kills minions more easily and guarantee them as opposed to other champs that don't have the bonus and scaling that her AA have. Her AA passive scales nicely with conqueror and many times I get Yasuos, Zeds, Irelias, Rivens, Fizzes, and so on, on the run cause they thought they could kill me and I'm literally eating on them, early game, with autos.
She's objectively one of the most interesting and fair designed champions in the game, she fits her role perfectly, and that's the entire problem. When you picked Orianna in 2013 you feared facing an Assassin like Akali or Zed, maybe fizz at times and that was pretty scary. Now every champion in other lanes are gonna rush you down like crazy and she's always had problems with people being in her face. Look at the footage in this video and you'll just see it. Playing against Ahri with her 2 dashes, Akali with her multitude of dashes and in combat mobility with her invis, and that's just the midlaners. That doesn't account for all the mobility in other lanes now. These same characters are gonna do also insane amounts of burst that you just can't compete with. You have to manage your movement all the time and try to get out your abilities properly while everyone else is doing the equivalent of holding W at you and hitting you on the head with CC. She is a character that lives in the old league design, where there are still aspects of traditional MOBAS like HoN and DotA. There is some stuff that is fast paced but it's much more focused about the control and macro of a game. That's not the game now. Everyone wants to dash around and do a million damage and solo queue is people just coin flipping fights to get a lead or ff at 15. She's still awesome to watch and play. But man she is just playing a whole different game. But hopefully they don't try to "fix her" and add a bunch of stupid shit like resets or other such nonsense on her kit.
I think another thing to bear in mind, is that she still has the really old balancing of having to choose between more frequent poking in lane or more burst. Both with their own faults. Q max provided very reliable poke, but absolutely ruined your mana pool for how little it did to your opponent. W max gave such strong trading patterns, but its high mana cost meant it couldn't be used for efficient waveclear. She is still probably by far the most balanced mage out there, with an ability to play into virtually anything and, at minumum, neutralized some very dangerous threats. But because her mana pool is not effective at pulling her through in early/mid game she has to stunt herself into building Tear items a lot, her passive does nothing in conjunction with her kit and just describes how The Ball works, and reliance on Ball delivery for reliable playmaking makes her feel really bad against non-control mages and possibly even worse against infinite scaling champions.
Yup, I don't often play mid but it's always nice to see Ori on your team. She's one of those champs whose biggest "flaw" is that they are too fair which is really less of Orianna problem and more with just the current state of the game
I've said it before and i will say it again, CertainlyT should have been kicked out of Riot after this abomination of a rework that changed way to much and made her pretty much unbalanceable. Ironically he was responsible for Darius and Yasuo too, who are 2 pretty hated champions.
I'd consider Orianna's situation to be the very similar situation as what happened with Riven essentially - for the longest time what characterized Riven and made her a super powerful meta dominating champion who seemingly had it all - a.k.a. a resourceless champion with low cooldown moves with high early game damage, high burst damage, high mobility, high dueling and outplay potential - all of these have over time become normalized and *_a baseline for much of the modern champions_* - Orianna and by example Riven itself haven't magically become worse over time, just that most champions around them *_can do the same thing they do_* and *_THAN some_*
Ori is too team reliable nowadays, this is her main "weakness" imo, if you don't win lane as her it's significantly harder to have an impact on the game without Seraph's + Luden or Liandry's - compared to other options , of course. But she's for sure one of the most rewarding and fun champions to play with till this day
i think the term you're looking for is pro play champion. she's basically a malphite, notable for that one ability and it's shockwave. too bad no one plays her in solo queue
@@lillyie agreege, and it's quite hard to think of ways to make her more appealing without making her broken (I really like her abilities as of now and consider them balanced)
actually that is what is pulling me towards her. When you are playing from behind you can resort to assisting your teammates and play her like a shield bot (remember the Athenes days?). This is also why I still pick Aery in most matchups, even though first strike, phase rush or electrocute are technically better.
I think what Orianna needs is a mid-scope update like Ahri. Her model is pretty dated, so giving her a visual update along with some QoL buffs should go a long way for her. Maybe have the ball accelerate as it travels so it can cross long distances faster. Or maybe they could tweak the secondary effects of her w and e to help her lean into support a bit more. I'm sure there's quite a bit of adjustments that they can do that aren't just buffing damage numbers.
She suffers from mage obsolescence. They were supposed to be great zoning/siege tools with fair range and great damage potential, but we now have in one side a huge mobility creep, on the other very tanky guys and in the middle some crazy utility that never existed. For me ori is suffering from (1) mana hunger and (2) not being a threat in terms of constant damage. I assume they'll give her the rumble treatment and give her some % max health damage on Q in the future
Yeah I 100% agree, if I don't go tear I have a lot of mana problems and I can never use my abilities on wave. But if I go tear I lack crucial damage which I need to make up with poking a lot more. Old seraphs didn't have this problem since it gave ap when stacked. And after the buff changes junglers never give blue until they finished their jgl item and if the blue splits a lot of the time a random teammate takes it before I can. I hope they maybe lower Q and E mana (+ cd maybe), since this is what you need to position the ball.
@@alliu6562 The issue is not even that, because landing those skills were rewarding before. Today you can have script xerath level of gameplay and still not have much impact, which is a bit sad for a mage lover t-t
Ori is a monster champ, you can play her into almost anything. only a small few exceptions. Most people just dont know how to properly use her Q. You can see who really knows Ari vs who doesn't simply by seeing how they clear wave. Most people would Q into it then use E to pull it back then Q again to finish it off, that's 3 spell casts and a ton of mana for 1 wave. what an experienced Ori knows is that the ball does damage to anything it passes though, meaning that you can clear a whole wave with just 2 Qs, its safer and costs way less mana, just you into the wave hit all 6, auto the casters once then q is back into the melee creeps. Or for example they're laning and want to pull the ball back onto of them, so they E right? Well that uses mana and you're down a defence spell, you can instead use Q to put it into range of you while also doing some damage to the enemy or the wave and just walk onto of it to pick it up, saves mana and doesn't cost a defence spell. Why this is important is lets say you have a bank coming, its easier to put the ball on the teammate but you can't bc no E. Lastly you never see unexperienced Ori players make use of her passive, it really hurts if you can maintain your position and play around the ball. People think you need to know where the ball is at all times, you don't, you just need to know your leash range, the ball will go where you tell it so as long as your're in leash range you dont need to know where the ball is bc you can just reposition it, you dont need to see it even just remember the general position of where you sent it last and where you are now. a lot of players will forget the ball is right onto of them, its more important for them to keep track of it than you. You just need to know that s long as you are within leash range, the ball will move where you tell it. Keeping an eye on your leash range means you can snap the ball back to you instantly if you need to without using E or if E is on CD, just walk out of leash range for a sec and it'll come back in an instant. OR even just simply using Q and keep the ball in one spot, the enemy has to constantly keep track of it but you dont really need to, so just use it to zone, inexperienced ori ori players think they need to keep the ball in motion all the time, the ball is most effective when you can utilize its mere presence to create space and zone; for example if you're taking a tower and you know the direction the enemy is coming from, place the ball in-between their path and you, so either they go around or are forced to walk through it. Ori has so many tiny mechanics that make her one of the Best picks in the game if you know how to properly use her kit. sorry for long comment lol I just like Ori
100% agree. I always use passive to farm and have the ball behind the wave in order to zone. If they ever walk up to cs I can poke with QW, and I don't need to risk anything myself when I'm the one csing.
Orianna is my most played champ in soloq, I've used her for many seasons to climb to gold, but now I play other champs in rank because I feel like Ori is lacking. Yes she can still be very oppressive, and powerful, but most of the time you are out ranged or out damaged by other champs, and feel useless. I used to blind pick her, and feel confident about almost any matchup, but now she is situational at best.
One of the biggest things Riot could do to help Orianna is improve Ball visibility for herself. As the game progresses, it gets increasingly harder to keep track of her Ball with so much more new things to keep track of and how VFXs (especially on skins) keep getting more flashy and similar looking. Something like an icon / healthbar highlighting on attached allies (only visible to Orianna and maybe that attached ally) and a more visible range indicator would be an amazing QoL.
WR already has that, you have a marker below you that points towards the ball and the ball when in your allies gives you a range circle, like Shako's clone
i hate the recall when she leaves the ball area, sometimes i call the ball a milisecond too late and the ball its already on me without making any damage, i wish it made damage on her auto recall too, could make some good plays and take off a little of mana dependenc
@@maca76 nah, it's best the way it is, cause if when you leave the range the ball returns like if you're calling it back it would announce your position to the enemy and completely negating the chance of an proper ambush
it might sound weird but i think at least in lower elos the splash art is really important. when i was new to the game i always thought that skarner and orianna must be really old and outdated because of how crude their portraits looked. the crucial detail being that because of the portrait cut out i couldn't even tell that skarner was a scorpion and orianna a mechanical puppet rather than poorly drawn humans.
@@Drathrin i like both of their artwork but in champ select you only see their faces, so it's easy for newer players to not even understand what they are
It'd be interesting to go over why so many classic mages are just... gone from the midlane. I used to play a ton of Karthus, Brand, Vel'koz, and Ziggs mid, but nowadays you never see them outside of support/jungle.
Like vars said, mage midlaners are required to have utility on top of damage. Artillery mages and mages with pure damages like karthus velkoz xerath brand, only provide damage whereas control mages offer utilities and zone controls along with good damage. Also imo control mages are just more fun to play than pure damage mage.
@@Gabriel_custodio195 this really shouldn’t be understated, because ultimately Oriannas problems aren’t really that unique since dealing with control mages, for the majority of assassin picks, is almost solely a matter of pressing a no/low-cost outplay button and you get to invalidate half their damage. The former feel hard to play mid since you just straight up have none of the privileges that account for your weaknesses or player mistakes by comparison. It also makes sense how many of these picks are funneled into bot lane, because it’s one of the few remaining lanes where the mobility/on-demand outplay nonsense hasn’t affected it much. Your matchups have fewer means to address your lockdown and skillshot bursts and are generally less durable.
The biggest problem with Ori in modern day League of Legends is the fact that everything she does is honest, telegraphed and kind of slow leaving room for counterplay. With the rise of the new 200 years champs we experienced an increase in non-counterplay gimmicky abilities and therefore Orianna, even tho I believe she is alongside Jhin one of Riots best designs (in both cases, gameplay and visual / concept design / lore), cant function in such environment unless Riots gives her a 200 years no counterplay mechanic (like for example cut her slow on her W from 2 seconds to 1.25 seconds and in return give it the grounding effect / or let here ball deal constantly a tiny amount of damage in a small radius so she can apply spell effects without casting abilities beside positioning her ball properly with Q or E - lets be honest, if Riot would ship such changes they would probably ship both ideas at the same time).
Honestly, grounding and burn damage doesn’t seem that unreasonable lol 200 years would be giving her ult multiple pulses each pulling people in and making her e pull her towards it and giving her w a root/grounding. Though even with all this, she’s still not as 200 years as new asol.
Yeahh league is kind of just bs mechanics trying to beat more bs mechanics. Riot just tunnel visions on the feeling of playing the character and doesn’t consider facing against them.
I'm pretty sure riot (ehem chinese playerbase that they love catering to) hate grounding since they want a hyperfast and dash heavy snowbally meta. When was the last time a champion had a grounding effect, the closest is vex who gets a damage effect but doesn't stop the dashes and thus still take the massive burst that usually follows from said dashes. Personally I hate this aggro snowbally meta and would love more grounding effects but I fear I and like many in these comments are in the minority.
To be fair, I'd much rather just see less dashes on various champions rather than more grounding effects. Getting your flash denied is annoying even for champions without dashes, and in most cases it is the low mobility champions that are easiest to Oriana ulted in the first place as they can't just dash away the moment the ball comes close. I also does not help against the true issue that LoL has a high amount mobility creep when comparing older and newer champions. I don't believe Riot will stop adding more dashes into the game though...
She's a "perfectly balanced" champion. Feels smooth to play, can engage, support, zone, poke, consistent damage etc without feeling too complicated. Sadly, with loads of BS's in champion design, she can feel a little rough to play (It's hard to zone properly when Yone can engage her from 2 miles away.
Love the uploads Vars. When the Soul Fighter event ends would you consider making a video about how this summer's League content measured up against the last 3?
Orianna is one of my favorite champions, but it really feels like she has fallen behind more modern champions, since her damage is low but her aoe control is still super good i like to play her as a support, both in midlane and in botlane
One change that might be broken but interesting is to give her two charges on her E, but make the cd a bit longer. This would help in burst survivability against assassins who all in her, and makes her midgame more interesting by having the ball zooming around due to the 2 e's. Plus she could flex into supp more and tgat could be interesting given the amount of resists a fully upgraded e could give, and gives her order max flexibility.
actually might be the best design for ORI atp I don’t think reducing her E cooldown by even half would be a huge buff, but having a double E at 2 charges would be crazy strong.
Not sure if mentioned in video, but one of reasons is definitely her audiovisual design. Balerine robot with metal ball, definitely isn't as mainstream as Aurelion Sol, Ahri, or other so called "cool" champs, it just isn't in the power fantasy of teenage boys. Personally, I wouldn't play Seraphine for example, just because her audiovisual design repels me so much.
I mean same here, but not because she's cutesy, but because she's a boring, safe, corporate design that sacrifices any intresting meaning for the most widely appealing design possible. Not to mention the manipulative marketing that surrounded her release.
I don't agree with this because league is full of girl/femboy culture and champs like sera, mf ahri and lux are giga popular and are not "cool concept" champions. Ori fits that narrative too it's just that she isn't that popular because riot didn't treat her as well as the other girly mages like Ahri Lux and Syndra. Orianna could have had so many good skins but riot didn't want to, like she literally just got the Star guardian skin and it's because seraphine stans bullied Riot.
One thing I feel like you didn't mention is mobility creep at on point in league Orianna was popular because of there wasn't as many threats now every champ seems to have some crazy dash to close the gap or get out of your ultimate the mobility creep is crazy
People are saying mobility creep when that’s not the case, she never had that consistent of a player base but she had a high pickrate in 2020 and 2021 where there was pretty much the same amount of mobility as now. It’s just that she’s not fun to play. All she does is poke and push in waves till late game where she still does no damage but can press R and win fights. That’s why she’s not played unless she’s strong because she’s just unfun for the majority of the player base.
I think the biggest problem with Orianna has to do with the new items and runes. Orianna is very good at building a lead due to her consistent and difficult to avoid poke. This poke is now countered by Doren's shield, revitalize, and feel footwork, when in the past it was just healing potions.
7:45 riot started ruining the game, but didnt what people found fun about league was having more champions capable of more roles than being a cookie cutter, boring as all hell, one champ, only one lane being effectively used in and has a low pickrate. Although there is still a lot of champs that stick to one lane
For me the biggest problem about her is no mobility These days everyone has a dahs and a lot of damage I played against and as Orianna, the moment you tell your jungler she has no flash, she is dead She is so easy to shut down of all the mobile high damage champs that are the most popular champions to pick and play I also feel a link between Ori and pre-mid-scope Ahri, jack of all traits and master of none
@@LT_I_AM I know but it makes it 100x time harder to play in modern League Especially if you're a artillery mage The reason why Xerath, Ziggs and Vel Koz are not played as much and Lux only goes support
@@mariannapapikyan4123 I understand u, but part of the problem is also the lack of team play. It's pretty rare to see people peeling for them or playing around them and around their powerspikes, that's why they're only played high elo. They require vision to play around, get to objectives first and a lot of team relying gameplay.
I honestly don't think this is a problem, as an Orianna otp the no mobility fits her perfectly. I don't think mages should have a lot of mobility and Orianna already has more than most mages with your W and Phase Rush. Orianna is a very macro reliant champion which makes her very hard to play in SoloQ but if played correctly you have little to no problems in laning phase. I think her problem comes from a lack of damage and mana.
I really wish we had more carry mages that aren’t assassins in the jungle and I think, with some changes/buffs Ori could fit that role and maybe increase her playability.
It's crazy how mobility is so valuable in LoL. Orianna's ult is like Dark Seer's Vacuum but a whole lot weaker. And somehow the context of LoL makes it a high power ult.
IMO, if Orianna doesn't wind up getting reworked into a support role or mid-scoped back into relevance... the best way Riot could bring Orianna back to the modern par is simply by buffing the range of her Q. 50 units perhaps? While the wombo-combo potential of her ultimate gets a lot of the spotlight, Orianna's secret strength in the old days USED to be her zoning and area-control in lane. At the peak of her popularity, the 825 cast range on her Q was pretty close to being on par with what most ranged characters could pull off consistently with their abilities, save for artillery casters. And with less low-cooldown dashes and dives in League's roster overall, the slow and speed-boost on her W was a bit more relevant in stopping approaches or making quick getaways. Heck, the range she had was potentially even GENEROUS sometimes when you considered that she also had her potential "leash" range to utilize, allowing her to drop the ball in her opponent's usual safe zones, walk back to her own safe areas, and then start creating momentary trigonometric threats against the opponent. However, over time that cast range was slowly crept up on. Not just by the obvious dash and dive mobility, but by the average ability range of new characters on the roster. More artillery champions were added, more piercing skillshots with the range of the usual poke abilities were available, more spammable snipe pokes and more pokes in kits overall, led to Orianna getting punished for trying to place her ball forward. Her extra threat zones went from a moderately generous bonus she could utilize on the regular to something you had to risk yourself for to get your hands on, and her normal cast's range went from going roughly toe-to-toe with her opponents to always being too small to claim initiative with. And her buffs over the years? Looking at them, they almost exclusively seem to focus on her wombo-combo value, as opposed to her deteriorating laning phase where she's been subtly falling behind the curve more and more. Thus, she has gone from her former position as a popular control burst mage, one who would tactically shift into enchanter tactics late-game due to her middling range and lower total ability scaling, to a lackluster enchanter mage who relies on teammates at all stages of the game to enable the surprisingly high amount of burst they have locked away.
I believe that she can teach you a lot about laning phase, late game macro and teamfights and is very simple to learn so she is great for new players but after that there are a lot of OTPs who play braindead broken champions and Orianna isnt broken ,she is perfectly balanced so when you play her in Solo Queue you struggle against those OTPs
She has an interesting design and kit, which got me to play mid lane for the first time but her kit is pretty underwhelming when handling against other mid laners... ; A;
The only way I can think of to make her more viable against the midlaners of today without completely changing her would be to increase the range of her abilities and speed up the ball's movement speed, maybe based on ability level
agreed, her q is a little on the short side in practice, and you aren't a gwen or a lillia so you have no sustain or protection besides a tiny shield. It's so easy to either cover the screen with a ranged skill, or go across it with a dash nowdays, that her limited range+being fragile doesn't help at all.
This video made me wonder as to her potential viability in the champ rosters of mage support players. She doesn't really have pre 6 cc the same way Brand and Lux do, but to make up for that she has a shield for her carry as well as a ms buff and slow. She has just as easily accessed poke, the versatility you mentioned in the video makes me think she'd have fairly consistent matchups, and her ult makes mid/jg ganks basically free as well as being a very powerful tool for drake fights. Just some food for thought, maybe worth trying.
honestly she still can be played, but it became alot harder, because of too many nuke champs. You often arent able to follow on roams in the early game and have to stay mid, because you stand no chance in a pure 1v1. Though if you are able to gain a small lead or once you can join skirmishes around baron or herald, she can still bring significant value if you play her relatively defensively
I think she is really good as a support. The low cd and really good range on her E is amazing! Also constant speed/slow varieties. The most annoying thing is her mana though, until almost the late game.
Not "Wretched Weaponry" from NieR: Automata playing in the background while you talk about a Wretched Weaponry herself such as Orianna. You sir, never cease to amaze me in your videos
My thoughts going into this as a mid lane assassin main: Orianna from my experience likes to harass a lot and bully in lane, then transition into teamfights. Where I think she can struggle is that she doesn't really have the high snowball potential or later game hyper scaling that most mid picks have right now. Ori tends to have a steady level of power throughout the course of the game while other champs have one point of really high pressure.
Orianna and zyra were my first real mains in season 2. To this day she’s still my comfort pick when I’m picking early or just not familiar with a match up
I don't think she needs a rework, but a qolbuff Make her ball travel a little faster from a location to the other and she will probably get a lot more play
I agree, that's what icks me, like I wanted to play her and something's stopping me and it's how slow her ball travel from one place to another. Which is sad and annoying (?) coz she's literally relying on her ball for all the skills she can do and for some reason it's so hard to hit or do anything (as an almost-interested Orianna player) because of it being too slow. Maybe I'm just bad and I just have to get used to it but idk.
@@julsegsI play her alot and you're correct. The ball-management is still a thing about her which I honestly think is a bit obsolete compared to all other modern champs with simpler kit plus easy character management. There were moments where I casted my ulti and forgot the ball wasn't in a position I wanted 😂
Orianna is good versus assassins, what are you people saying??? She is not blindpickable strong sure, but she beats assassins IN LANE and out scales ASSASSINS. Perhaps she is less effective in low elo because mage players in general are worse and do not know what they are doing in low elo. In higher elo, orianna holds prio over assassins during the laning phase, and if orianna keeps up her control and advantage then she will outscale the assassin on top of winning lane. She thematically loses to champs that hyper outscale her like xerath, kassadin, veigar, seraphine, and now syndra after her mini rework
The only way to FIX Orianna and all other grandfather champs is to ADD dash to them!! Anyway, I still enjoy playing her in ARAM, especially initiating crazy teamfights 😂
I’m shocked 😭💀 I love playing her plus she’s so easy to play with considering how you can easily adapt your playing style in regards to who you’re playing against
And that is why I play her support now because she doesn't do as much damage as other midlaners but has great supportive abilities with her movespeed/slow on w, great poke, a fantastic shield and the ult as a get off me tool usually
To be honest i think what would help Orianna (and most of her type champion) is less about DPS boost but more about mobility boost. To be honest for longest time i think Riot should just buff everybody move speed to nerf some of the other mobility options. Like making certain (looking at Akali) heavy dash champs still have "i have alot of mobility", but making champions with out them still feel good. We all know how out of hand dashes gone over the years to the point Riot MADE few anti dash champions. So having something like "mobility update" to make champions with out dashes/blinks have easier time to dodge abilities AND having dash/blink champs criple a little their abilites so it would be an acuall ability rather that just walk option. Just saying, because now most champions with mobiltiy abilites fell like they just mash buttons rather that thinking what they are doing.
yes akali is so fucking laughable rework. Riot; kali has 3 dashes on her ult that is to mutch so we decide to rework her. riot adds more dashes and an uncounterable invisabilty wich in the old version there was actually counter play to it... and no i don't say old akali didn't had it's problems but at least that version was hella more fair
i think it would be more fair to increase bonus movement speed from abilities that grant it like Orianna W and Viktor Q, another change can be that silence disrupt dashes too
Just played with an Orianna a few games back for the first time. I have no idea what she does but i could feel the impact of the barriers and the gravity thingy in every teamfight.
I used to play Ori a lot and to me she feels like the game got to fast for her. You kinda need 3 Items to really do the things you wanna do. If you get to this point you will probably take over the game but nowadays most games are already kinda decided when you get towards your third item
There's another thing about balance with mages that people don't seem to talk about. AP used to be way more abundant. It used to be easy and common to get 1000 AP in a game, AND you had actives like Gunblade and Deathfire Grasp. Nowadays, everything is a passive effect and you might hit around 700 AP, but hey you might have an extra 400 HP. Mages don't seem to have the burst or impact that they used to
Correct. Mages itemization right now is so underwhelming. And so is the Sorcery rune options. You can only have 3 items because the other 3 should be sorcerer's boots, rabadon, and void staff or else you will have no damage.
I'll never forget matching up with an oriana way back when and she would just leave her ball to zone me out of the wave while she autos the creeps. That ball scared the life out of me 😂
As an old time Orianna main, I can say that she definitely isn't in the best state compared to other mid laners but she is still a very fun and interesting champion to play but also to learn league. Even though we hate this game we still want to improve and Orianna helped me climb from Bronze to Gold back when I started league 10 years ago and all the little things like wave management, roaming and how to play against certain champion types are still clear in my mind. So all mid mains if you haven't, go try out Orianna:)
She's definetely suffering from the pace/mobility creep. Personally, I find it quite hard to handle hybrid champions which target allies and enemies with different abilities in uncoordinated teams, which can make the champ feel very clunky if you have to walk into different ranges and switch targets. That said, I think she still has the potential for a "comeback" without requiring a rework. What I'd change about her would be the innate getting transferred to a ally if it has the ball on them as well as a reduced cd for dissonance if the ball is on a ally. This would allow her to keep up with other champs by proxy of a high mobility champion (jungler?).
This season ive been taking her support. With the recent buffs reducing mana cost on her w and e means you dont run out of mana super quick and maxing shield gives you stats to throw on your adc. 30 armor and mr at max rank for whoever has the ball on them plus a 500 hp shield is nothing to scoff at.
OH boy, rewatching this video when Arcane act III ss2 is about to be out is just GREAT. Cause, i hope Riot will use this as a chance to justify buffing her. Cause she really needs it.
One thing that hurt her a large amount, was the item rework removing athenas holy grail. That item was key to oris identity imo and gave you so much build variety mid. Not in a position to carry? Go athenas and play a midline support and help peel.
Ori weakness is that in early you don't have enough damage to oneshot anyone and you depend a lot of times on your team help, and later in late game even fed you can't carry your team because you depend too much on the cooldown of your habilities and good positioning and the need of a tank or sup or someone to protect you if you position badly, as a main ori I love pkaying with her, its very fun but you need to be really precise. At lesst you have more mana than before, it was horrible not making damage and running out of mana super fast.
Improved AOE range and slow duration on her W is what's needed. So players are slowed for longer and the slow covers more ground. Make her W a mini Anivia ult. Then she can still actually zone when her ult is on CD and not just be useless. It would also enable her to set up her own ult sometimes and break up the mandatory R>W combo.
I love mages, except Sylas/Kassadin/etc (I don't even consider them as mages tbh), but I just couldn't play Orianna, she felt strange and uncomfortable. Then I played her in Wild Rift and it was wonderful, I climbed with her and enjoyed our journey. So when I came back to League, I tried her again and... well, that was really frustrating again. May be I'm not skilled enough to control her, but the sad part is that she doesn't even feels good to bother actually to learn her there. Unlike WR where I could do almost everything with her depending on the team comp and the situation.
I've tried playing Orianna in Arena lately, and it made a problem very obvious to me. Many modern melee champs are above 125 range, and have can have large champ sizes because of items like heartsteel. It's very easy to find yourself in a situation where the melee your ball's attached to is too far from their auto attack target for W to hit anything. So, uh, personally, If I were to buff Orianna, I'd up Command: Dissonance's radius from 225 to 250, or make the radius scale with the attached champion's size.
It's sad to admit but there are certain champs the are just too honest for their own good, which makes playing those champs feel bad because you can play just fine or even better then lane opponents just to lose because an enemy team has too many 200 years abilities.
I’ve been playing her again for the last 2 months and she’s been so fun! I love her flexibility but it is annoying against dashes. That’s where the adaptation comes in!
I feel it's the same with Zoe, I used to climb with her because of her early game strength but then all the slows and dashes caused me to play safer and not snowball
returning orianna otp, became cass otp as ori didn't have the solo carry power to claw out victories when i deserved them. recent buffs to ult damage have changed that though. previously a 4 man ult might halve enemy hp for team to follow up on, but if they're all completely worthless and it's 1v9 your huge ult makes no difference. now that same ult can near one shot a team (or ohko the carries) and even underfarmed allies can capitalise. it's made a massive difference. only thing that needs updating imo is her passive. literally anything would be better.
I thought I just came up would be to double down on the puppet master concept. By this I don't mean to turn her super complex like Azir, but to make her similar to Jhin in a sense that thay can turn her into a way more area control heavy mage. Plus, keeping with her ballerina motief, they can just make her "force her opponents to dance with her", similar to Jhin's ult
Kit idea would be: Passive: She "adjusts her tempo" in a way to match her opponents' speed (both in MS, AS and AH) Q: the same but slap her "old passive" on top of that. (We can go the extra mile and have her ball function like a wall that Ornn can ram into, Camille can hookshot on, Zeri can dash over + empower her W lazer, etc) W: Make it gound on top of the slow and/or, make it function similar to Arena's Castle summoner but make it a huge MS boost (simulating a dash but it isnt one) instead of a blink E: The same but make it also target enemies and make it "scramble or glitch" their skillshots (make it so they shoot to a random location instead of where the cursor is) R: Makes it so that a huge zone appears around the ball in which it enhances allied dashes n MS boost and meanwhile it hampers enemy dashes and MS boost
Riot: In order to bring Ori up to date with the mobility creep of newer champions, we are giving her a dash. If you are hit by your own ult, similar to Ziggs satchel, you are launched twice the distance of when your ult hits an enemy.
orianna's another victim of the mobility creep. during her days, dashes are rare so it was easy for her to use the ball to continually poke you. in today's league landscape. with the amount of champions(and items) with dashes, it's just too easy to just keep your distance from the ball as it doesn't have crowd control outside of her ultimate
She still has that 0/5/0 still useful champ that keeps her as a valuable champion.
It's like a boxer who can only jab and leave their arm out only to be open for counter shots.
If we could re adjust Orianna, I wish her ball could be recovered more quickly so she could poke more often so that even when her mobile opponents dodge one attack there is a 2nd attack to worry about.
her poke is disgusting for a lot of champions
What about anivia she is more slow then orianna
@@medvedik__9989until anivia complete RoA and Seraph. She's a pretty fragile champ.
Her hp is just too low, slower mobility with more slower skill shot. The passive was there to let her have a second chance for early game when most of the enemies are in their lower stats.
Tbh I still prefer Orianna for early game. But if I need some serious neutral game then Anivia might be the best option along with Malz.
She became too hard to play not because of the champion but every single matchup against are different. There's just too many annoying assassin that you have to play differently.
Especially against champs like Leblanc or Viktor. It's just hard to justify where Orianna would profit the most in the current landscape.
This combined with her lane bully style makes her playstyle a lot more difficult to pull off nowadays. She's just too hard of a champion now for most newer players to want to play her sadly, so her playerbase just slowly dwindles as she continually loses her increasingly older player base
She just got powercreeped
@@trollerox7276true
What are you talking about she isn't hard she's just bad. And boring. She is just like boring azir
Oriana needs more love. She is one of the best designed champions
she just needs more skins. i hope they leave her kit as is, or else we'll have an akali situation all over again
Hardly disagree
She is boring and her survivability is fairly low. Xerath, syndra and lux, being also very immobile champs, have better self peel because of their instant cc on a basic ability. Also syndra and lux can burst you and xerath feels that he can poke from 2 screens away
yes please i used to main her until they nerfed her aa.
Only if you consider being mediocre at everything good design
Something people usually don't talk about is her base stats being some of the lowest in the game. Usually is not noticed because she has passives that put them to other champions standards:
She has one of the lowest base ad, but her passive buffs her autos deal the same dmg any other mid laner would deal early game. This means that, at least early game, she doesnt have a passive, and when this passive actually makes her have some auto dmg compared to other mages, you're not gonna auto as orianna.
She has some of the lowest resistances early in the game (Yuumi level armor and mr), but her e has some passive resistances to help her match everyone. This means if u manage to trade with her when she can't get the ball on herself, she's taking close to 10% more dmg than any other mid laner would.
Add this to her q still having that 30% dmg reduction after the first collision, and u get a "scaling" champ whose only way to pressure early is aery spam that gets outscaled by every other dmg dealer.
It's honestly really frustrating. I don't get why riot adds these. Isn't the point of these passives to be "bonuses"? When you decrease her stats to compensate, they stop being bonuses, they just make her EQUAL to other champions.
I'd like for riot to do away with this stuff, maybe change her passive completely
@@dde8721 passives being basically a 5th ability wasnt as much of a thing when she came out. when ori was released her passive was decent because, like everyone else is saying, there was less overal mobility in the game so she could keep enemies in one spot for longer than she can now which gave her time to auto them and genuinely benefit from the extra damage. the fact that she could use her abillities from far away with relative safety through the ball made for her lower stats quite a bit imo but ofc now, theres so much mobility that enemies can just dash up to you and kill you before the ball even makes it back in time to actually combo.
she definitely needs a passive change and honestly maybe just a very soft rework. there are so many things you could do with her, make her passive stacking mr reduction to reward oris who kite well and survive long or maybe make it that she gets a little movement speed when the ball returns to her or maybe if she autos a champion and the dash within like 1.5 seconds of being auto'd by her, they take a little bit of damage or get a little slow. just something, anything lmao.
Ever tried conqueror on her?
Ori on WR can trade VERY WELL with most other champs. Since her passive gives bonus magic damage on her AA she can kills minions more easily and guarantee them as opposed to other champs that don't have the bonus and scaling that her AA have.
Her AA passive scales nicely with conqueror and many times I get Yasuos, Zeds, Irelias, Rivens, Fizzes, and so on, on the run cause they thought they could kill me and I'm literally eating on them, early game, with autos.
@@nox_caditi was about play her on wr lmao, clicked this video cause i was having doubts but this comment gives me hope
@@guidinglight6968 the first strike rune is also really good on her, you get your build earlier the more you harass the enemy
She's objectively one of the most interesting and fair designed champions in the game, she fits her role perfectly, and that's the entire problem. When you picked Orianna in 2013 you feared facing an Assassin like Akali or Zed, maybe fizz at times and that was pretty scary. Now every champion in other lanes are gonna rush you down like crazy and she's always had problems with people being in her face. Look at the footage in this video and you'll just see it. Playing against Ahri with her 2 dashes, Akali with her multitude of dashes and in combat mobility with her invis, and that's just the midlaners. That doesn't account for all the mobility in other lanes now. These same characters are gonna do also insane amounts of burst that you just can't compete with. You have to manage your movement all the time and try to get out your abilities properly while everyone else is doing the equivalent of holding W at you and hitting you on the head with CC. She is a character that lives in the old league design, where there are still aspects of traditional MOBAS like HoN and DotA. There is some stuff that is fast paced but it's much more focused about the control and macro of a game. That's not the game now. Everyone wants to dash around and do a million damage and solo queue is people just coin flipping fights to get a lead or ff at 15. She's still awesome to watch and play. But man she is just playing a whole different game. But hopefully they don't try to "fix her" and add a bunch of stupid shit like resets or other such nonsense on her kit.
I think another thing to bear in mind, is that she still has the really old balancing of having to choose between more frequent poking in lane or more burst. Both with their own faults. Q max provided very reliable poke, but absolutely ruined your mana pool for how little it did to your opponent. W max gave such strong trading patterns, but its high mana cost meant it couldn't be used for efficient waveclear. She is still probably by far the most balanced mage out there, with an ability to play into virtually anything and, at minumum, neutralized some very dangerous threats. But because her mana pool is not effective at pulling her through in early/mid game she has to stunt herself into building Tear items a lot, her passive does nothing in conjunction with her kit and just describes how The Ball works, and reliance on Ball delivery for reliable playmaking makes her feel really bad against non-control mages and possibly even worse against infinite scaling champions.
Yup, I don't often play mid but it's always nice to see Ori on your team. She's one of those champs whose biggest "flaw" is that they are too fair which is really less of Orianna problem and more with just the current state of the game
... how about *_grounding_* on her W ?! ... x)
I've said it before and i will say it again, CertainlyT should have been kicked out of Riot after this abomination of a rework that changed way to much and made her pretty much unbalanceable. Ironically he was responsible for Darius and Yasuo too, who are 2 pretty hated champions.
Just build protovelt now you have a dash too :)
I'd consider Orianna's situation to be the very similar situation as what happened with Riven essentially - for the longest time what characterized Riven and made her a super powerful meta dominating champion who seemingly had it all - a.k.a. a resourceless champion with low cooldown moves with high early game damage, high burst damage, high mobility, high dueling and outplay potential - all of these have over time become normalized and *_a baseline for much of the modern champions_* - Orianna and by example Riven itself haven't magically become worse over time, just that most champions around them *_can do the same thing they do_* and *_THAN some_*
As an Orianna main, this is too sad to be true. I hope she appears on Arcane Season 2, she needs more love from us.
I see a brother
she appeared !! there is hope
WISH CAME TRUE BROTHER! OUR GIRL APPEARED!!! ;___;
Am tempted to start playing her just because she is a mechanical ballerina with her body split in two but still connected by magical tech.
Ori is too team reliable nowadays, this is her main "weakness" imo, if you don't win lane as her it's significantly harder to have an impact on the game without Seraph's + Luden or Liandry's - compared to other options , of course. But she's for sure one of the most rewarding and fun champions to play with till this day
i think the term you're looking for is pro play champion. she's basically a malphite, notable for that one ability and it's shockwave. too bad no one plays her in solo queue
*reliant
@@ReXiRa787 ty, english is not my main language
@@lillyie agreege, and it's quite hard to think of ways to make her more appealing without making her broken (I really like her abilities as of now and consider them balanced)
actually that is what is pulling me towards her. When you are playing from behind you can resort to assisting your teammates and play her like a shield bot (remember the Athenes days?). This is also why I still pick Aery in most matchups, even though first strike, phase rush or electrocute are technically better.
I think what Orianna needs is a mid-scope update like Ahri. Her model is pretty dated, so giving her a visual update along with some QoL buffs should go a long way for her. Maybe have the ball accelerate as it travels so it can cross long distances faster. Or maybe they could tweak the secondary effects of her w and e to help her lean into support a bit more. I'm sure there's quite a bit of adjustments that they can do that aren't just buffing damage numbers.
League was significantly better when top 3 most played mids in pro were viktor ori Azir.
She suffers from mage obsolescence. They were supposed to be great zoning/siege tools with fair range and great damage potential, but we now have in one side a huge mobility creep, on the other very tanky guys and in the middle some crazy utility that never existed.
For me ori is suffering from (1) mana hunger and (2) not being a threat in terms of constant damage. I assume they'll give her the rumble treatment and give her some % max health damage on Q in the future
lower the q cooldown and give it percent
Yeah I 100% agree, if I don't go tear I have a lot of mana problems and I can never use my abilities on wave. But if I go tear I lack crucial damage which I need to make up with poking a lot more. Old seraphs didn't have this problem since it gave ap when stacked. And after the buff changes junglers never give blue until they finished their jgl item and if the blue splits a lot of the time a random teammate takes it before I can. I hope they maybe lower Q and E mana (+ cd maybe), since this is what you need to position the ball.
Lower mana on W and give it more damage like %hp, because Q should be the way to move the ball and W should be the burst combo part
Yeah… sadly I think that’s just how it is for mages reliant on slower, telegraphed abilities
@@alliu6562 The issue is not even that, because landing those skills were rewarding before. Today you can have script xerath level of gameplay and still not have much impact, which is a bit sad for a mage lover t-t
Ori is a monster champ, you can play her into almost anything. only a small few exceptions. Most people just dont know how to properly use her Q. You can see who really knows Ari vs who doesn't simply by seeing how they clear wave. Most people would Q into it then use E to pull it back then Q again to finish it off, that's 3 spell casts and a ton of mana for 1 wave. what an experienced Ori knows is that the ball does damage to anything it passes though, meaning that you can clear a whole wave with just 2 Qs, its safer and costs way less mana, just you into the wave hit all 6, auto the casters once then q is back into the melee creeps. Or for example they're laning and want to pull the ball back onto of them, so they E right? Well that uses mana and you're down a defence spell, you can instead use Q to put it into range of you while also doing some damage to the enemy or the wave and just walk onto of it to pick it up, saves mana and doesn't cost a defence spell. Why this is important is lets say you have a bank coming, its easier to put the ball on the teammate but you can't bc no E. Lastly you never see unexperienced Ori players make use of her passive, it really hurts if you can maintain your position and play around the ball. People think you need to know where the ball is at all times, you don't, you just need to know your leash range, the ball will go where you tell it so as long as your're in leash range you dont need to know where the ball is bc you can just reposition it, you dont need to see it even just remember the general position of where you sent it last and where you are now. a lot of players will forget the ball is right onto of them, its more important for them to keep track of it than you. You just need to know that s long as you are within leash range, the ball will move where you tell it. Keeping an eye on your leash range means you can snap the ball back to you instantly if you need to without using E or if E is on CD, just walk out of leash range for a sec and it'll come back in an instant. OR even just simply using Q and keep the ball in one spot, the enemy has to constantly keep track of it but you dont really need to, so just use it to zone, inexperienced ori ori players think they need to keep the ball in motion all the time, the ball is most effective when you can utilize its mere presence to create space and zone; for example if you're taking a tower and you know the direction the enemy is coming from, place the ball in-between their path and you, so either they go around or are forced to walk through it. Ori has so many tiny mechanics that make her one of the Best picks in the game if you know how to properly use her kit. sorry for long comment lol I just like Ori
100% agree. I always use passive to farm and have the ball behind the wave in order to zone. If they ever walk up to cs I can poke with QW, and I don't need to risk anything myself when I'm the one csing.
They just have to increase her base resistance and ad and rework her passive like maybe a stacking ap per skill hit or smthg
Orianna is my most played champ in soloq, I've used her for many seasons to climb to gold, but now I play other champs in rank because I feel like Ori is lacking. Yes she can still be very oppressive, and powerful, but most of the time you are out ranged or out damaged by other champs, and feel useless. I used to blind pick her, and feel confident about almost any matchup, but now she is situational at best.
she’s so fun to play, i just wish she had an ASU or a legendary skin. then i’d play her waaaayyyy more.
what’s wrong with you that won’t change anything
if she’s fun to play her then play her why do you want to buy a $20 skin
@@cadenmoore1939 e girl and e boy mentality.Only skin I bought is Mecha Kha'Zix because how iconic that skin is
@@cadenmoore1939 sometimes you don't like the champion because their abilities are not satisfying enough
@@cadenmoore1939whale mentality
@@cadenmoore1939 pretty colours and effects, ori's base skin sucks
One of the biggest things Riot could do to help Orianna is improve Ball visibility for herself. As the game progresses, it gets increasingly harder to keep track of her Ball with so much more new things to keep track of and how VFXs (especially on skins) keep getting more flashy and similar looking.
Something like an icon / healthbar highlighting on attached allies (only visible to Orianna and maybe that attached ally) and a more visible range indicator would be an amazing QoL.
oof, way too true. you can even notice it on aram since you'll get to teamfighting so fast. her ball gets lost under minions, frontliners and vfxs
WR already has that, you have a marker below you that points towards the ball and the ball when in your allies gives you a range circle, like Shako's clone
i hate the recall when she leaves the ball area, sometimes i call the ball a milisecond too late and the ball its already on me without making any damage, i wish it made damage on her auto recall too, could make some good plays and take off a little of mana dependenc
@@maca76 nah, it's best the way it is, cause if when you leave the range the ball returns like if you're calling it back it would announce your position to the enemy and completely negating the chance of an proper ambush
this is so true sometimes navigating yourself and trying to find where tf the ball went while in a big team fight can be so difficult lol
it might sound weird but i think at least in lower elos the splash art is really important. when i was new to the game i always thought that skarner and orianna must be really old and outdated because of how crude their portraits looked. the crucial detail being that because of the portrait cut out i couldn't even tell that skarner was a scorpion and orianna a mechanical puppet rather than poorly drawn humans.
the way u just yapped out your ass
skarner maybe but orianna's splash is solid
@@Drathrin i like both of their artwork but in champ select you only see their faces, so it's easy for newer players to not even understand what they are
very true, they are showing their age badly in terms of model, splash and animation
no you're 100% correct. the aesthetic is extremely important. orianna should be gwen-ified
It'd be interesting to go over why so many classic mages are just... gone from the midlane.
I used to play a ton of Karthus, Brand, Vel'koz, and Ziggs mid, but nowadays you never see them outside of support/jungle.
It's indeed sad to witness other mages being shoved and forced towards bot lane ಥ_ಥ
Mobility + high damage
Like vars said, mage midlaners are required to have utility on top of damage. Artillery mages and mages with pure damages like karthus velkoz xerath brand, only provide damage whereas control mages offer utilities and zone controls along with good damage. Also imo control mages are just more fun to play than pure damage mage.
@@aki5876 Plus, there are too many assasins and skirmishers that do a lot and have too many ways to off you.
@@Gabriel_custodio195 this really shouldn’t be understated, because ultimately Oriannas problems aren’t really that unique since dealing with control mages, for the majority of assassin picks, is almost solely a matter of pressing a no/low-cost outplay button and you get to invalidate half their damage. The former feel hard to play mid since you just straight up have none of the privileges that account for your weaknesses or player mistakes by comparison.
It also makes sense how many of these picks are funneled into bot lane, because it’s one of the few remaining lanes where the mobility/on-demand outplay nonsense hasn’t affected it much. Your matchups have fewer means to address your lockdown and skillshot bursts and are generally less durable.
The biggest problem with Ori in modern day League of Legends is the fact that everything she does is honest, telegraphed and kind of slow leaving room for counterplay. With the rise of the new 200 years champs we experienced an increase in non-counterplay gimmicky abilities and therefore Orianna, even tho I believe she is alongside Jhin one of Riots best designs (in both cases, gameplay and visual / concept design / lore), cant function in such environment unless Riots gives her a 200 years no counterplay mechanic (like for example cut her slow on her W from 2 seconds to 1.25 seconds and in return give it the grounding effect / or let here ball deal constantly a tiny amount of damage in a small radius so she can apply spell effects without casting abilities beside positioning her ball properly with Q or E - lets be honest, if Riot would ship such changes they would probably ship both ideas at the same time).
Honestly, grounding and burn damage doesn’t seem that unreasonable lol 200 years would be giving her ult multiple pulses each pulling people in and making her e pull her towards it and giving her w a root/grounding. Though even with all this, she’s still not as 200 years as new asol.
Yeahh league is kind of just bs mechanics trying to beat more bs mechanics. Riot just tunnel visions on the feeling of playing the character and doesn’t consider facing against them.
tbh Grounding does sound nice !
and you wouldn't even need to nerf the slow duration ! just revert the R dmg buffs !
I'm pretty sure riot (ehem chinese playerbase that they love catering to) hate grounding since they want a hyperfast and dash heavy snowbally meta. When was the last time a champion had a grounding effect, the closest is vex who gets a damage effect but doesn't stop the dashes and thus still take the massive burst that usually follows from said dashes.
Personally I hate this aggro snowbally meta and would love more grounding effects but I fear I and like many in these comments are in the minority.
To be fair, I'd much rather just see less dashes on various champions rather than more grounding effects. Getting your flash denied is annoying even for champions without dashes, and in most cases it is the low mobility champions that are easiest to Oriana ulted in the first place as they can't just dash away the moment the ball comes close. I also does not help against the true issue that LoL has a high amount mobility creep when comparing older and newer champions.
I don't believe Riot will stop adding more dashes into the game though...
After how much Sera was brought up in this vid I almost kind of want to see a dedicated video for her, how she fell from mid lane to APC/Support, etc
She's a "perfectly balanced" champion. Feels smooth to play, can engage, support, zone, poke, consistent damage etc without feeling too complicated. Sadly, with loads of BS's in champion design, she can feel a little rough to play (It's hard to zone properly when Yone can engage her from 2 miles away.
Her W makes you unable to dash and Bang* she is 2023 champ now
that "wretched weaponry" in the background hits hard
Lol 2 months after this video and she s tier in pro.
An Ori tries to get in range to poke the enemy champ. Gets fricking 1 shot by a blue kayn coming from behind a wall.
Thats basically every mage minus ahri and a couple of other control mages with hard cc
@@bullettime1116 but ahri has mobility in her kit and most mages have an ability in their kit to stave off assassins to some degree.
Showing this to my friend who plays ori and asking her if shes alright
Love the uploads Vars. When the Soul Fighter event ends would you consider making a video about how this summer's League content measured up against the last 3?
Orianna is one of my favorite champions, but it really feels like she has fallen behind more modern champions, since her damage is low but her aoe control is still super good i like to play her as a support, both in midlane and in botlane
No way! I started playing orianna 4 days ago and he does that video? What a coïncidence.
Why everyone plays Kayn = 6.27 Pickrate
Why NO one plays Orianna = 16.09 Pickrate
One change that might be broken but interesting is to give her two charges on her E, but make the cd a bit longer. This would help in burst survivability against assassins who all in her, and makes her midgame more interesting by having the ball zooming around due to the 2 e's. Plus she could flex into supp more and tgat could be interesting given the amount of resists a fully upgraded e could give, and gives her order max flexibility.
actually might be the best design for ORI atp
I don’t think reducing her E cooldown by even half would be a huge buff, but having a double E at 2 charges would be crazy strong.
Not sure if mentioned in video, but one of reasons is definitely her audiovisual design. Balerine robot with metal ball, definitely isn't as mainstream as Aurelion Sol, Ahri, or other so called "cool" champs, it just isn't in the power fantasy of teenage boys.
Personally, I wouldn't play Seraphine for example, just because her audiovisual design repels me so much.
I mean same here, but not because she's cutesy, but because she's a boring, safe, corporate design that sacrifices any intresting meaning for the most widely appealing design possible.
Not to mention the manipulative marketing that surrounded her release.
I don't agree with this because league is full of girl/femboy culture and champs like sera, mf ahri and lux are giga popular and are not "cool concept" champions. Ori fits that narrative too it's just that she isn't that popular because riot didn't treat her as well as the other girly mages like Ahri Lux and Syndra. Orianna could have had so many good skins but riot didn't want to, like she literally just got the Star guardian skin and it's because seraphine stans bullied Riot.
One thing I feel like you didn't mention is mobility creep at on point in league Orianna was popular because of there wasn't as many threats now every champ seems to have some crazy dash to close the gap or get out of your ultimate the mobility creep is crazy
imagine simply adding "Enemies affected by the Ball can't use movement abilities for 1.0-3.0 seconds based on level", she would be instant meta
True, her main issue she dont have any movement, she doesnt have any cc, she just cant defend herself
@@Pissandra_0.0 and the lowest mr/armor without her ball ( so thats 90% of the time while shes not running away )
that would instantly make her the best champ in the game.
People are saying mobility creep when that’s not the case, she never had that consistent of a player base but she had a high pickrate in 2020 and 2021 where there was pretty much the same amount of mobility as now. It’s just that she’s not fun to play. All she does is poke and push in waves till late game where she still does no damage but can press R and win fights. That’s why she’s not played unless she’s strong because she’s just unfun for the majority of the player base.
I think the biggest problem with Orianna has to do with the new items and runes. Orianna is very good at building a lead due to her consistent and difficult to avoid poke. This poke is now countered by Doren's shield, revitalize, and feel footwork, when in the past it was just healing potions.
7:45 riot started ruining the game, but didnt what people found fun about league was having more champions capable of more roles than being a cookie cutter, boring as all hell, one champ, only one lane being effectively used in and has a low pickrate. Although there is still a lot of champs that stick to one lane
Unless I'm missing something here
0:44 Wait Lillia was actually in the spotlight at one time? 💀
I think somewhere around release when she had a busted clear speed
For me the biggest problem about her is no mobility
These days everyone has a dahs and a lot of damage
I played against and as Orianna, the moment you tell your jungler she has no flash, she is dead
She is so easy to shut down of all the mobile high damage champs that are the most popular champions to pick and play
I also feel a link between Ori and pre-mid-scope Ahri, jack of all traits and master of none
Same as Viktor and Syndra, the control mage class is supposed to not have mobility
@@LT_I_AM I know but it makes it 100x time harder to play in modern League
Especially if you're a artillery mage
The reason why Xerath, Ziggs and Vel Koz are not played as much and Lux only goes support
@@mariannapapikyan4123 I understand u, but part of the problem is also the lack of team play. It's pretty rare to see people peeling for them or playing around them and around their powerspikes, that's why they're only played high elo. They require vision to play around, get to objectives first and a lot of team relying gameplay.
@@LT_I_AM True
I honestly don't think this is a problem, as an Orianna otp the no mobility fits her perfectly. I don't think mages should have a lot of mobility and Orianna already has more than most mages with your W and Phase Rush. Orianna is a very macro reliant champion which makes her very hard to play in SoloQ but if played correctly you have little to no problems in laning phase. I think her problem comes from a lack of damage and mana.
I really wish we had more carry mages that aren’t assassins in the jungle and I think, with some changes/buffs Ori could fit that role and maybe increase her playability.
Nice Video, at 7:09 you spelled "Availability" wrong though :) Just to edit it for future watchers
Seraphine currently does everything orianna used to do but better, poor girl
Ori is always a good pick and is a staple in the mid lane, Sera is basically only used sup cause she got gutted in the midlane
Seraphine isn't even touched anymore especially in Mid, she's straight up not even listed on there rn
I appreciate the clash of ninja footage. That was my childhood
It's crazy how mobility is so valuable in LoL. Orianna's ult is like Dark Seer's Vacuum but a whole lot weaker. And somehow the context of LoL makes it a high power ult.
IMO, if Orianna doesn't wind up getting reworked into a support role or mid-scoped back into relevance... the best way Riot could bring Orianna back to the modern par is simply by buffing the range of her Q. 50 units perhaps?
While the wombo-combo potential of her ultimate gets a lot of the spotlight, Orianna's secret strength in the old days USED to be her zoning and area-control in lane. At the peak of her popularity, the 825 cast range on her Q was pretty close to being on par with what most ranged characters could pull off consistently with their abilities, save for artillery casters. And with less low-cooldown dashes and dives in League's roster overall, the slow and speed-boost on her W was a bit more relevant in stopping approaches or making quick getaways. Heck, the range she had was potentially even GENEROUS sometimes when you considered that she also had her potential "leash" range to utilize, allowing her to drop the ball in her opponent's usual safe zones, walk back to her own safe areas, and then start creating momentary trigonometric threats against the opponent.
However, over time that cast range was slowly crept up on. Not just by the obvious dash and dive mobility, but by the average ability range of new characters on the roster. More artillery champions were added, more piercing skillshots with the range of the usual poke abilities were available, more spammable snipe pokes and more pokes in kits overall, led to Orianna getting punished for trying to place her ball forward. Her extra threat zones went from a moderately generous bonus she could utilize on the regular to something you had to risk yourself for to get your hands on, and her normal cast's range went from going roughly toe-to-toe with her opponents to always being too small to claim initiative with.
And her buffs over the years? Looking at them, they almost exclusively seem to focus on her wombo-combo value, as opposed to her deteriorating laning phase where she's been subtly falling behind the curve more and more. Thus, she has gone from her former position as a popular control burst mage, one who would tactically shift into enchanter tactics late-game due to her middling range and lower total ability scaling, to a lackluster enchanter mage who relies on teammates at all stages of the game to enable the surprisingly high amount of burst they have locked away.
this did not age well shes picked or banned in every game at worlds atm
I believe that she can teach you a lot about laning phase, late game macro and teamfights and is very simple to learn so she is great for new players but after that there are a lot of OTPs who play braindead broken champions and Orianna isnt broken ,she is perfectly balanced so when you play her in Solo Queue you struggle against those OTPs
man, i actually shed a tear when you showed galio taunt flashing, that one hurt on a personal level.
I feel like she is very broken in the right hands especially when i watch dopa play her, her team fighting is crazy good and ger laning is insane.
She has an interesting design and kit, which got me to play mid lane for the first time but her kit is pretty underwhelming when handling against other mid laners... ; A;
The only way I can think of to make her more viable against the midlaners of today without completely changing her would be to increase the range of her abilities and speed up the ball's movement speed, maybe based on ability level
agreed, her q is a little on the short side in practice, and you aren't a gwen or a lillia so you have no sustain or protection besides a tiny shield. It's so easy to either cover the screen with a ranged skill, or go across it with a dash nowdays, that her limited range+being fragile doesn't help at all.
12:45 "someone who can unga bunga their way into the enemy team" had me dying
A good change imo would be to have her W give more speed, ground enemies (cancel dashes) and execute minions at a small percentage
Fantastic video. I watch alot of your stuff but this one is a gem. Good one Vars!!
Music in the background:
NieR Automata - Wretched Weaponry
Var's neighbor has to be getting gentrified with how often building is happening there.
This video made me wonder as to her potential viability in the champ rosters of mage support players. She doesn't really have pre 6 cc the same way Brand and Lux do, but to make up for that she has a shield for her carry as well as a ms buff and slow. She has just as easily accessed poke, the versatility you mentioned in the video makes me think she'd have fairly consistent matchups, and her ult makes mid/jg ganks basically free as well as being a very powerful tool for drake fights. Just some food for thought, maybe worth trying.
Also imagine pairing her with like, Kaisa. Kaisa ult becomes the most dangerous thing ever
@@Hazy_FforestKai'sa + a support is already the most dangerous thing ever.
honestly she still can be played, but it became alot harder, because of too many nuke champs. You often arent able to follow on roams in the early game and have to stay mid, because you stand no chance in a pure 1v1. Though if you are able to gain a small lead or once you can join skirmishes around baron or herald, she can still bring significant value if you play her relatively defensively
I think she is really good as a support. The low cd and really good range on her E is amazing! Also constant speed/slow varieties. The most annoying thing is her mana though, until almost the late game.
Not "Wretched Weaponry" from NieR: Automata playing in the background while you talk about a Wretched Weaponry herself such as Orianna. You sir, never cease to amaze me in your videos
I recently started playing ori support for fun, and honestly speaking it works really well.
You get a turbo fat ADC and really slow enemies.
My thoughts going into this as a mid lane assassin main:
Orianna from my experience likes to harass a lot and bully in lane, then transition into teamfights.
Where I think she can struggle is that she doesn't really have the high snowball potential or later game hyper scaling that most mid picks have right now. Ori tends to have a steady level of power throughout the course of the game while other champs have one point of really high pressure.
Orianna and zyra were my first real mains in season 2. To this day she’s still my comfort pick when I’m picking early or just not familiar with a match up
I don't think she needs a rework, but a qolbuff
Make her ball travel a little faster from a location to the other and she will probably get a lot more play
I agree, that's what icks me, like I wanted to play her and something's stopping me and it's how slow her ball travel from one place to another. Which is sad and annoying (?) coz she's literally relying on her ball for all the skills she can do and for some reason it's so hard to hit or do anything (as an almost-interested Orianna player) because of it being too slow. Maybe I'm just bad and I just have to get used to it but idk.
@@julsegsI play her alot and you're correct. The ball-management is still a thing about her which I honestly think is a bit obsolete compared to all other modern champs with simpler kit plus easy character management. There were moments where I casted my ulti and forgot the ball wasn't in a position I wanted 😂
The "and teemo" at 8:18 got me
Orianna is good versus assassins, what are you people saying??? She is not blindpickable strong sure, but she beats assassins IN LANE and out scales ASSASSINS. Perhaps she is less effective in low elo because mage players in general are worse and do not know what they are doing in low elo. In higher elo, orianna holds prio over assassins during the laning phase, and if orianna keeps up her control and advantage then she will outscale the assassin on top of winning lane.
She thematically loses to champs that hyper outscale her like xerath, kassadin, veigar, seraphine, and now syndra after her mini rework
The only way to FIX Orianna and all other grandfather champs is to ADD dash to them!!
Anyway, I still enjoy playing her in ARAM, especially initiating crazy teamfights 😂
WHEN BARD VID
I’m shocked 😭💀 I love playing her plus she’s so easy to play with considering how you can easily adapt your playing style in regards to who you’re playing against
And that is why I play her support now because she doesn't do as much damage as other midlaners but has great supportive abilities with her movespeed/slow on w, great poke, a fantastic shield and the ult as a get off me tool usually
Good man putting respeck on The Forklift Certified Able.
To be honest i think what would help Orianna (and most of her type champion) is less about DPS boost but more about mobility boost.
To be honest for longest time i think Riot should just buff everybody move speed to nerf some of the other mobility options. Like making certain (looking at Akali) heavy dash champs still have "i have alot of mobility", but making champions with out them still feel good.
We all know how out of hand dashes gone over the years to the point Riot MADE few anti dash champions. So having something like "mobility update" to make champions with out dashes/blinks have easier time to dodge abilities AND having dash/blink champs criple a little their abilites so it would be an acuall ability rather that just walk option. Just saying, because now most champions with mobiltiy abilites fell like they just mash buttons rather that thinking what they are doing.
yes akali is so fucking laughable rework. Riot; kali has 3 dashes on her ult that is to mutch so we decide to rework her. riot adds more dashes and an uncounterable invisabilty wich in the old version there was actually counter play to it... and no i don't say old akali didn't had it's problems but at least that version was hella more fair
i think it would be more fair to increase bonus movement speed from abilities that grant it like Orianna W and Viktor Q, another change can be that silence disrupt dashes too
i always though that "Orianna is just easier Azir"
Just played with an Orianna a few games back for the first time. I have no idea what she does but i could feel the impact of the barriers and the gravity thingy in every teamfight.
I used to play Ori a lot and to me she feels like the game got to fast for her. You kinda need 3 Items to really do the things you wanna do. If you get to this point you will probably take over the game but nowadays most games are already kinda decided when you get towards your third item
There's another thing about balance with mages that people don't seem to talk about. AP used to be way more abundant. It used to be easy and common to get 1000 AP in a game, AND you had actives like Gunblade and Deathfire Grasp. Nowadays, everything is a passive effect and you might hit around 700 AP, but hey you might have an extra 400 HP. Mages don't seem to have the burst or impact that they used to
Correct. Mages itemization right now is so underwhelming. And so is the Sorcery rune options. You can only have 3 items because the other 3 should be sorcerer's boots, rabadon, and void staff or else you will have no damage.
I can't belive there is not video about Zac in this playlist.
I'll never forget matching up with an oriana way back when and she would just leave her ball to zone me out of the wave while she autos the creeps. That ball scared the life out of me 😂
Great vid. Orianna got me to gold for the first time this season, so no complaints here!
I dont play Orianna but Star Guardian Orianna having a robotic voice and not being a legendary skin is a crime.
That didn’t age too well and it’s been 3 months
ori in arena is insane like you can get crazy movement speed and mega high damage/low cooldowns which make her one of the best champs in it
As an old time Orianna main, I can say that she definitely isn't in the best state compared to other mid laners but she is still a very fun and interesting champion to play but also to learn league. Even though we hate this game we still want to improve and Orianna helped me climb from Bronze to Gold back when I started league 10 years ago and all the little things like wave management, roaming and how to play against certain champion types are still clear in my mind. So all mid mains if you haven't, go try out Orianna:)
She's definetely suffering from the pace/mobility creep. Personally, I find it quite hard to handle hybrid champions which target allies and enemies with different abilities in uncoordinated teams, which can make the champ feel very clunky if you have to walk into different ranges and switch targets.
That said, I think she still has the potential for a "comeback" without requiring a rework.
What I'd change about her would be the innate getting transferred to a ally if it has the ball on them as well as a reduced cd for dissonance if the ball is on a ally. This would allow her to keep up with other champs by proxy of a high mobility champion (jungler?).
This season ive been taking her support. With the recent buffs reducing mana cost on her w and e means you dont run out of mana super quick and maxing shield gives you stats to throw on your adc. 30 armor and mr at max rank for whoever has the ball on them plus a 500 hp shield is nothing to scoff at.
OH boy, rewatching this video when Arcane act III ss2 is about to be out is just GREAT. Cause, i hope Riot will use this as a chance to justify buffing her. Cause she really needs it.
She's amazing in the new arena mode. I've been playing her nonstop all day yesterday and nearly won every match i played with her.
One thing that hurt her a large amount, was the item rework removing athenas holy grail. That item was key to oris identity imo and gave you so much build variety mid. Not in a position to carry? Go athenas and play a midline support and help peel.
Ori weakness is that in early you don't have enough damage to oneshot anyone and you depend a lot of times on your team help, and later in late game even fed you can't carry your team because you depend too much on the cooldown of your habilities and good positioning and the need of a tank or sup or someone to protect you if you position badly, as a main ori I love pkaying with her, its very fun but you need to be really precise. At lesst you have more mana than before, it was horrible not making damage and running out of mana super fast.
Bro made a video on why people dont play the most popular champ in the game.
Improved AOE range and slow duration on her W is what's needed. So players are slowed for longer and the slow covers more ground. Make her W a mini Anivia ult. Then she can still actually zone when her ult is on CD and not just be useless. It would also enable her to set up her own ult sometimes and break up the mandatory R>W combo.
I love mages, except Sylas/Kassadin/etc (I don't even consider them as mages tbh), but I just couldn't play Orianna, she felt strange and uncomfortable. Then I played her in Wild Rift and it was wonderful, I climbed with her and enjoyed our journey. So when I came back to League, I tried her again and... well, that was really frustrating again. May be I'm not skilled enough to control her, but the sad part is that she doesn't even feels good to bother actually to learn her there. Unlike WR where I could do almost everything with her depending on the team comp and the situation.
I've tried playing Orianna in Arena lately, and it made a problem very obvious to me. Many modern melee champs are above 125 range, and have can have large champ sizes because of items like heartsteel. It's very easy to find yourself in a situation where the melee your ball's attached to is too far from their auto attack target for W to hit anything.
So, uh, personally, If I were to buff Orianna, I'd up Command: Dissonance's radius from 225 to 250, or make the radius scale with the attached champion's size.
It's sad to admit but there are certain champs the are just too honest for their own good, which makes playing those champs feel bad because you can play just fine or even better then lane opponents just to lose because an enemy team has too many 200 years abilities.
I’ve been playing her again for the last 2 months and she’s been so fun! I love her flexibility but it is annoying against dashes. That’s where the adaptation comes in!
I like how teemo is his own category
I feel it's the same with Zoe, I used to climb with her because of her early game strength but then all the slows and dashes caused me to play safer and not snowball
returning orianna otp, became cass otp as ori didn't have the solo carry power to claw out victories when i deserved them.
recent buffs to ult damage have changed that though. previously a 4 man ult might halve enemy hp for team to follow up on, but if they're all completely worthless and it's 1v9 your huge ult makes no difference. now that same ult can near one shot a team (or ohko the carries) and even underfarmed allies can capitalise. it's made a massive difference.
only thing that needs updating imo is her passive. literally anything would be better.
I thought I just came up would be to double down on the puppet master concept. By this I don't mean to turn her super complex like Azir, but to make her similar to Jhin in a sense that thay can turn her into a way more area control heavy mage. Plus, keeping with her ballerina motief, they can just make her "force her opponents to dance with her", similar to Jhin's ult
Kit idea would be:
Passive: She "adjusts her tempo" in a way to match her opponents' speed (both in MS, AS and AH)
Q: the same but slap her "old passive" on top of that. (We can go the extra mile and have her ball function like a wall that Ornn can ram into, Camille can hookshot on, Zeri can dash over + empower her W lazer, etc)
W: Make it gound on top of the slow and/or, make it function similar to Arena's Castle summoner but make it a huge MS boost (simulating a dash but it isnt one) instead of a blink
E: The same but make it also target enemies and make it "scramble or glitch" their skillshots (make it so they shoot to a random location instead of where the cursor is)
R: Makes it so that a huge zone appears around the ball in which it enhances allied dashes n MS boost and meanwhile it hampers enemy dashes and MS boost
Riot: In order to bring Ori up to date with the mobility creep of newer champions, we are giving her a dash. If you are hit by your own ult, similar to Ziggs satchel, you are launched twice the distance of when your ult hits an enemy.