TINY DOS gaming PC build guide - weeCee Part 2
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- Опубліковано 3 сер 2021
- Adding a wavetable synth and playing some network games! // Your trustable pcb prototype partner : www.pcbway.com/
Part 1 : • Building EVEN SMALLER ...
My previous mini PC : • Mini MSDOS gaming PC -...
Project page on PCBWay : www.pcbway.com/project/sharep...
Gerbers and BOM : www.pcbway.com/project/sharep...
DSL's website (buy the ICOP module from them) : www.dsl-ltd.co.uk/ - part number is SOM304RD52VINE1
You can get the crystal chips from utsource : www.utsource.net/sch/cs4237.html
Soundcard drivers and flash tools : orpheus-soundcard.eu/
Network drivers : www.dmp.com.tw/tech/vortex86dx/
Win98 graphics card drivers : rasteri.com/XGI_Volari_Win98_V...
Buy Dreamblaster S2 here : www.serdashop.com/waveblaster
MT32-Pi project : github.com/dwhinham/mt32-pi
MPUCTL (to switch MT32-pi between MT32 and General MIDI mode) : github.com/MiSTer-devel/ao486...
SoftMPU : bjt42.github.io/softmpu/ - Наука та технологія
Amazing project! I saw LGR's review and really impressed. Well done :)
We need to get him a community setup on discord this is a great project
Here’s an idea:
Instead of going smaller I’d like to see you go back to the original housing and see what else you could fit in there with the even smaller module that has multiplexed pins. Clearly, I feel the larger housing was small enough! Also, you could make it look more like an old AT/XT by cutting a longer extrusion at an angle to make two housings. A 3D printed frame could create a flat face for the screws and complete the recessed drive look you were going for with the black/beige faceplate.
I know having a game port on the front makes sense for usability but the back would look so much better and since it fits vertically you might have even more room for I/O (Serial? Parallel?). Many of us already have extenders and Y-adapters, so that would be the perfect mini-PC for me. A fella can dream, can’t he? ;)
Good idea! Perhaps in a few months.
@@TheRasteri Now that I think about it, the only reason to cut the extruded housing at an angle would be to approximate the look of the angled bezel without actually making one, since the drives themselves were never angled. Actually making an angled, 3D printed frame piece with a normal vertical end plate would approximate it even closer so there is no need for an angled cut on the aluminum housing. Screwing the angled end plate down wouldn’t work without the very frame that negates the need for an angled end plate. :)
@@TheRasteri Hmm the smaller one has a PCIe interface? How about building one with an integrated 3DFX adapter? I know there are still some NOS 3DFX ICs floating around 🙃
Please consider doing a production run of these, i would definitely purchase one even if it is relatively costly
This is so cool and we appreciate the care and dedication you've put into this. Your build/design process and dedication to making a quality prototype really stood out. Thank you for taking the time to develop such cool projects and know that we'll definitely be in touch!
Glad to see industrial computer companies noticing this potential use-case!
If I can't rely on the case to provide mechanical support to a USB connector, I will often put long solder pads on either side of the connector so you can anchor it that way
Lol, gives a whole new meaning to the term "DOSBox". Love it
Love it :) Cheers for namedropping mt32-pi!
Thanks for making it! I found it really useful when testing :)
Gosh, I wish this was for sale! I love it so much.
glad LGR put us onto you mate. great work and great vids. you got a new subscriber and fan
9:23 wtf that made me jump in my chair!!
I would totally buy this weepc as I love dosgames.
This project is awesome !
As for the power connector, I think a USB C connector would make more sense these days. USB C cables seem more reliable as well (at least in my experience) and they can provide more power.
That bios makes me thinking ... Maybe there's a way to figure out how the CPU is slowed down by it and then to write a DOS app that would let you change the speed on the fly instead of having to reboot and change the speed each time ? That would be neat !
It also makes me think of the projects like the atmega based sound blaster clone. Maybe it'd be possible to make a WeeCee that wouldn't use any vintage parts at all ?
We can also use the USB-C to connect eGPUs if we want to have 3D acceleration for any old games that uses Direct 3D acceleration.
@@firelightyear uhhhhh no
@@jonessii I hope we get a future version of a Weecee where it has a Pentium III and Direct3d 5-9 acceleration…
@@firelightyear I feel you! Pentium III with 3d acceleration from proper GPU would be gamechanging
@@synnek3596 Yeah and having USB emulate IDE for connecting external disk drives too.
Nice having an update here. This project is very interesting.
Going for the wavetable header I think is the right approach.
Hand soldering the SAM2695 (QFN48) could be difficult.
In general this looks well designed! Well done! :)
Now, I defiantly have the ability to improve and mass produce this, or just produce it as it is.
However I am reactant to do so. I am also a very busy man. (job, my projects / channel)
My main issue here is that I think is a big risk for me to spend significant amount
of time and money on a project that it is open-sourced.
In the future if I am more relaxed this might be possible.
If you are interested to have a general talk about this in private, I am open to this.
Improvements in technology never cease to amaze me!
Honorable mention to AlleyCat for having the best PC beeper soundtrack of all time.
Awesome project! I wish I had time to build it. Love your humor and presentation. Keep it up!
Love the attention to detail on zip tying the USB connection! Looks like a really cool project. Theme Hospital was the first game I ever completed (without using cheats) so fond memories watching this video :)
always waiting to see what you've got next! thanks for taking the time to share this stuff :)
That Transport Tycoon layout :D
LGR's feature on the weeCee sent me over here. Awesome stuff! Subscribed.
Windows 98 was the best multi-purpose DOS system. I find it very interesting that x86 has this industrial alternate life. It sounds like it might eventually be replaced with ARM.
It might, but the main reason for that legacy is just because there's still a LOT of very old industrial equipment reliant on old x86 software, often not easily emulated on a different CPU arch. So it's a market where companies can still sell computer modules and such for. If they'd have to switch to ARM, it would cost quite a lot, because not only would the x86 based controllers need to be replaced, so would the equipment it was controlling. And that can be cost prohibitive enough to not bother.
@@Dan-TechAndMusic that and these things have been well figured out and reliable for decades now, if a process doesn't actually need more processing horsepower it probably still makes sense to just use the old DOS hardware
Excellent update. I was thinking that it would be great to have some of the more common 486 era storage devices on a WeePC like a slimline 3.5"HD floppy and possibly a slimline CDRom drive. Seeing those in one case would be amazing.
Keep up the good work💪👍🏻
I can say that at least vintage floppy controller chips: all that's really needed is a decent-enough ISA imitation (maybe a CPLD version of Intel's LPC would work).
Yes! TTD soundtrack as your first choice. Top man! Love this project too much respect for the work.
voice around 9:20 sounded way too fkn real in my left ear cup and i had a mini heart attack thinking some rabid dog or a dude was next to me. took me outta nowhere xD
9:24 holy shit that sudden stereo audio scared the living shit out of me after only hearing mono talking for so long
Man you defiantly have the skills needed to do this kind of project!
Don't give up just take your time and regular revisions, changes will happen over time.
Only way I can play my old games is to boot up the old 1994 IBM Aptiva but the sound card is blown and the HDD is worn out and hardly boots!
This is so cool. I almost want to try and make a battery powered one with a USB GSM dongle so I can finally code a phone in VB6! Mad props for open sourcing this too!
cant wait to see what you come up with to make it smaller!
Great video. I love this project updates. Please add BIOS battery connector to the board.
Careful when soldering around a battery. I recently had to makeshift solder for an industrial x86 board, and the CR2032 went flat in just a few months, as heat really damages them quite fast, even with short exposure. On-board connector or even a cell battery holder would really be better.
I stupidly bought cr2032s for my 2 units and there's no way its holder can fit above. Gotta use tape or go underneath the board
@@michaeljuneau4085 For CR2032, you can get holders where the battery sits upright, and not laying flat. But maybe there just isn't enough place anyhow.
@@graealex I'll just put it under the board where it can be away from the heat of the SOM
Great little project
98SE was the best of that family and the most stable that I had experienced.
So this is great, I definitely need to build one.
I’ve recently picked up building and flying FPV drones, and a big part of the hobby is setting up and tuning the quadcopter to fly correctly, which typically requires a PC.
Most people are using Betaflight 4.2/4.3 at this point, and having a very portable device that can connect to flight controllers via Micro USB or WiFi would be soo incredible for all these new FPV pilots.
I know you said you enjoy your day job, but I don’t currently have a day job and I’ve recently learned how to solder.. at a hobby level for now.
I’d be happy to throw some electronics together for someone. That would be like perfect for me.
Just sayin’. Lol.
That's either a massive banana or a tiny box... said the nun to the sailor
What an impressive tiny DOS/Win98 beast! :)
Yay! More modern retro goodness!
I'd love to see this PC run Tinycore Linux, Damn Small or Antix Linux. Arch will be a challange!
Archlinux 32 is a thing, unofficial 32bit port, ram could be an issue for the live environment, but once its installed it should be fine
@@dcfuksurmom I think Tinycore might run better but I want to see a graphical linux distro up and running on the unit
Thank you for all your work.
Came here from LGR’s video. I was a Mac guy back in the day, but I’d be all over something like this if I’d had an early PC instead.
Wow... this is great. I really love your mini pc for dos game. I hope one day they will produce a pc faor dos game like this, I will surely buy one.
This is the best thing that I saw on the retro PC scene ever. It is amazing. It would be really interesting to see it running FreeDOS and test some games to check compatibility. BTW does this beauty has any small integrated buzzer for the internal speaker sounds?
The sound chip takes care of that, it takes the SOM pc speaker output and mixes it to the sound blaster output. No need for a physical speaker just for the PC speaker audio.
Awesome as always!
Guide for the networking? I had 98 and W10 working fine together until an update borked it one day. Awesome build! Love the project
This is so cool! I really want it! I love small computers. So cute!
A followup to the mini 486? What a treat!
Wayyy! Amazing stuff is here!
Q: Curious what the maximum audio resolution in DOS would be with the Crystal chip. Can it support 16bit 44.1khz audio?
I don't play retro DOS games, but I compose music with en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FastTracker_2, and I also use several other rare obtuse DOS programs for editing audio on vintage 80's and 90's samplers. I have several very aged 486DX and Pentium 1 systems, that run FreeDOS for interfacing with this equipment and making music. When I saw this project I got REALLY excited, as it potentially would allow me to keep my DOS music alive, and not to mention, much smaller and more energy efficient! The MPU-401 Gameport support means I can connect a MIDI adapter cable and use it just as I would my clunky old DOS systems.
Thanks for sharing! I think I've got to build one of these ASAP! Ordering parts now.
Awesome little PC!
Amazing craft and amazing VOICE
Thanks for the battery idea and pins, I'll get around to adding that to my project.
I hope I didn't damage one of my 2 units, I was so close to attempting a networked DOOM deathmatch :( My 2nd unit has started to drop its voltage to 2.30ish V when the SOM is connected.
SOM isn't damaged (I tested it on the other unit). Pet theory is now: faulty voltage regulator
It works again! Replacing the F1 main fuse with a solder blob let it go above the underspecced 750 mA rating. DOOM LAN match between my 2 machines here we go!
Yeah Mu0n is my other account (in case anyone is confused ;)
Yep ima make one of these thank you so much :)
I would love to buy one!
amazing project 🤩
Transport Tycoon live music? 2014? Whaaaa. Hold my drink, I'm opening a new tab!
What a great project.
Dude get a kickstarter going, I'm sure you could market it. if people are doing RetroPi and such other retro gaming for dos gaming you can get in on this market too I'd buy one for sure. love the old dos games and don't care for emulation so much.
Awesome project! I love my DOS games, but I really want to step away from DOS-box towards the actual hardware. And someone has already said it, but it would be awesome to get something bigger with “all-in-one” package. I’d prefer to have every option available rather then trying to carry it in my pocket)) Can’t wait for someone to start selling it!
Fun fact it's not stricktly required to back boot into ms-dos mode to play dos games. They can be run via ms-dos prompt in windows 98. I have a Windows 98 machine and I run dos games straight in Windows 98 using this method. You can alt tab to another application or alt enter to switch to window mode (most dos games complain about window mode till you switch back to full screen) I put the short cuts in the start menu, so they just feel like windows games. I believe you can even run multiple dos game like simaltaniously.
A tip for the future ... about the USB more robust secure holding ... add Hot Glue then Zip ties ;)
I love those over ripe bananas.
I wasn't thinking about making it even smaller no. I was thinking, I REALLY WANT TO BUY ONE FROM YOU!!!!!!!!!!
You sir are a genius!!
That’s nuts!
Why Micro USB?, why not USB C?
Maybe to avoid sharing cables with other devices, and usbc usually spits out higher power output, so also maybe to avoid risking frying the whole thing, that's why the resort to micro, and usbc is slightly bigger.
@@hirokurobane9145they said in part 1 that it was because it was easier to use micro usb.
Great work! Cool device, I feel like you could have opted for a prettier banana.
I really enjoyed this series, - as a DJ, I am keen to see whats next on that front, - but I hope you do some more PC stuff also. I would love a mini Pentium III machine with a graphics card, like an S3. - Is there a CD-ROM emulator, similar to the floppy drive emulator you feature? - I would love to play Myst & Riven but I hate swapping disks. - Imagine a SSD that fits into a CD-ROM bay, with a little screen and some buttons that allow me to page up / down & select images. - The computer would think its connecting to a very fast CD-ROM, with simulated disk-loading. - Looking at your channel, a device like this seems well in your technical abilities.
It kinda does already exist but it's expensive and slightly awkward to use - shop.tattiebogle.net/product/prod_EkTnv3Tk2Trxhf
@@TheRasteri - I have it! - Please take the track select wheel off a CDJ with its small screen & solder it to the IDE Sim. - would be awesome.
@@TheRasteri sometime i wonder is the gpio of the rasbery pie can handle a IDE émulation....
In theory, you could order these from PCBWay, pay for their assembly, buy the modules and clone a bunch of SD cards and sell these guys with minimal fuss. I assume they wouldn't be cheap though.
I wouldn't be comfortable selling the design in its current state. If people pay over $400 for a device they expect it to be perfect.
cool project and a nice idea. an ITX form factor board for these would be nice. 3D Print a retro looking faceplate for those cheap aliexpress ITX enclosures with a CF or SD slot where a floppy drive would have been on a larger build and voila. Tiny 486 gaming device. MiSTer FPGA is another good solution but this is a great repurposing of hardware. Is there any concern about cooling in that case?
Darnit, just ordered an eBox 3350MX, been wanting to try a Vortex86 for a while. Ebay has one left for $35 and shipping.
Very nice project. it's possible with your solution or small upgrade to use an real Roland MT-32?.
If the arrangement of the components more closely resembled a motherboard, I would 3d-print miniature versions of all my favorite vintage/retro computers and put this board in. I would probably buy many of them for me and my friends.
in 2 years time we'd be upto weePC version 6, where you have to have a nano-scale soldering kit and microscope to solder on the CPU
BUT now the entire thing fits on the back of the microSD card!
something that would be cool as heck is using these them for cyberdecks running dos
It reminds my old day that i worked with vortex86dx pc104 board
I wonder if it has a PCIE/ISA wiring, you can connect a VGA/GPU chip to?
you can also solder the micro USB port to a naked ground patch on the PCB, if you created that patch in the right place on the board.
Would be interested to buy one of these.
Rasteri, when are you going to make a stop button for the beat on the SC1000 MK2. You have done it on the SC500?
I wonder if it would be possible to create (via PCBWay) a kind-of backplane for this Vortex module, giving it ISA/PCI slots? Sure it would be bigger and defeat the purpose of the weeCee, but it would be nice for PC gaming with the option of, like, DOS sound and 3d accelerated video cards.
With super socket 7 motherboards getting rare and expensive, it might make an attractive, reliable alternative.
(even cooler would be to mount it on a PCIe card to have it be the equivalent of an Amiga Bridgeboard for modern PCs. )
I would be also be interested in the backplane. In my case, it would be for running the Korg OASYS PCI card on a modern incarnation of era-appropriate hardware (from what I see online, the editor works on Windows 9x and Mac OS 8/9). However, I understand my use case is a bit futile since a Korg Prophecy emulation (which has similar sound generation algorithms to the aforementioned PCI card) was recently added to the Korg Collection and would probably be a cheaper proposition for what I want.
I bet you could use an fpga chip and a legal grey area obtained schematic of a 3d accelerated video card to add 3d
Are the bios support network boot via RPL and / or PXE?
Or is here a way to "flash" the options ROM?
This mini x86 still is amazing.
I wonder if it wouldn't be possible to do something with a Raspberry Pi for those on a budget.
Not simply DOSBox but something that can handle Win9x also.
So I gotta know, you think this could run Pitfall: The Mayan Adventure for Windows 95?
I was inspired by this project to pick up one of those eBox thin client modules for some basic DOS/Win9x gaming, although I've had issues trying to get Windows 98 installed. Partway through the install I'll crash out to a 'Fault outside of MS-DOS Extender' error and had no clear path to fix it.
Update: I've managed to install Win98, though it seems to only want to boot into Safe Mode.
Subscribed.
Thanks for the content.
Keep up the good work.
בס'ד
A GUS module would be nice :)
Do DSL still sell those SOM? It says cannot find anything for that part number and a category search shows little to none.
Question, would it be possible to stick a laptop ATI Rage Mobility or find the chips from the ATI Rage Mobility to stick inside the weecee to resolve the lack of 3d support?
Any chans of a side by side with the hp t5710 thin client with win98/dos on it to se if that would be good enough for us who can not build a wee cee our self?
Could you, please, either link or make a guide to install W98?
Cool. I believe it is possible to manually extract DOS components from Windows 98, and basically form MS-DOS 7.1. I would personally stick to MS-DOS 6.22 probably or FreeDOS.
Would it be possible to make a version of this with a mini ITX motherboard and ISA slots?
It's very low profile, I'm wondering if this could fit in a handheld format.
Do you think there is any way possibility of having one with 3DFX graphics combability?
Best things come in small packages.
While making the computer as small as possible is admirable, both of your designs are plenty small compared to any ATX or ITX variation. Would it be beneficial to make one just a bit bigger to include all the necessary bits to emulate as much hardware as possible? à la the MISTER AO486 ?
I hope someone can sell complete kits of this!
I don't suppose any of these small processor modules support native DVI out, do they?
A thought - instead of zipties, what about potting the joint in epoxy?
I watched both of these parts. But one thing that confuses me. Why not add in 3d acceleration?
How about using a double footprint that takes micro usb or mini usb ans in my experience mini usb is far superior in strength and durability. or alternativly, switch to USB C. it has strong connectors available
Should have used Mini USB for power since the connector doesn't require extra reinforcement for not much of a larger footprint.