A common comment I’m getting is about “Logia fruits have passive intangibility” despite the example that shows the contrary in 5:05. This example can be passed up as a gag scene and not valid which is fair but other instances of Logia users being caught off guard, blitzed or standing around can just be argued to be in the element form already examples being Enel, Kizaru w/ Apoo, Monet w/ Zoro etc. Personally I don’t think there’s a definitive answer to this so I don’t really care which stance you guys take. As it pertains to this video and match up it’s just an argument for those who will cope and aren’t willing to accept Oda retconning Lucci and CP9 to have Haki preskip.
10:03 swordsmanship = skill with the sword and skill is not strength His skill with a sword is the highest among the scabbards not his strength is the highest Among the scabbards
I personally think Crocodile is gonna surprise us when he returns and I’ve had stocks for him since he popped off in marineford. seeing my favourite Sandy and extremely intelligent mob boss being relevant also makes me have high hopes for when doffy returns to the story (because let’s be honest he will, he’s either gonna join cross guild or Blackbeard). Croc’s been my favourite villan since he was introduced in alabasta and I have no doubts that he’ll definitely be stronger than Robert hold this L. Ucci. I probably have him in my top 5 yonko commanders behind Beckman, Aokiji and Mihawk off of portrayal, narrative importance and bias but if we’re going off pure feats, I unfortunately gotta give it to Robert Hold this L. Ucci. I will say though, 1 thing they both have in common is that they are undoubtedly some of the drippiest and most stylish characters in the series
I see lucci have jinbei level because luffy low diff him zoro mid diff lucci so that means sanji high diff him jinbei extreme diff him and I think crocodile will be stronger than jinbei I know it filler but crocodile looked like he was going to pack up jinbei and Jinbei got one shotted by mihawk while crocodile stood up to him. I also think he will have a awakening logia which is overpowered that why we hold the admirals and Blackbeard so highly and crocodile 1v1 Douglas bullet when he was determined and the show is showing that he gaining his determination from back then and he will learn haki and buggy will motivate you so I see him yc1 and admiral level since he all he got other than mihawk so that place mihawk and crocodile higher and mihawk respect crocodile strength
I think Crocodile at least is Doflamingo level now which could range between 3rd Division or 2nd Division Commander level. He obviously has Awakened his Sand Fruit even before Alabasta I believe as he told Luffy back then he mastered his Devil Fruit to perfection and was the first character in the story to bring up Devil Fruit Awakenings during Impel Down. Crocodile was extremely nerfed during Alabasta because he didn't use his Awakening on Luffy because he thought he didn't need too as he thought of him as your average rookie the way Big Mom was nerfed in Wano in her fight against Law and Kidd with her not using her Advanced Conqueror's Haki Coating once on them because she didn't need to use her best against rookie brats.
There is absolutely no reason to believe a highly ambitious character like crocodile that’s been free this whole time hasn’t gotten significantly stronger. I think he’s gonna be on a whole new level compared to where he was in alabasta.
You can argue that Crocodile lost his edge due to him being in Alabasta for years laying low. There was no real challenge to stimulate growth or maintain power. Look at how much weaker Moria got after clashing equally with Kaido. Their respective feats is what made them Warlords in the first place.
Obviously, Lucci did not have haki pre-timeskip. If he did, then he couldn't use it consciously. He attacked Luffy countless times pre-timeskip. It was stated that Lucci could not hurt Luffy at all outside of sharp attacks and the Rouku-Ougan.
I got a feeling when Croc skills is showcased again he’ll be somewhere within in the range of Mihawk. Not saying he’s on Mihawks level(I’m assuming he’s in Shanks league) but will have considerable fighting impact at a Yonko level
@@cmonbruh6636 I feel this is definitely possible, Crocodile has a 1.9 billion bounty in the war he sustained minor injuries while yonko commanders like Jozu lost an entire arm
Logia fruit users can train with their fruit to the point where their body unconsciously turns intangible to attacks. Crocodile stated that he mastered his fruit even though we didnt see him using awakening but that could be explained away by saying that he was awakened which is why it rained after Luffy beat him or that he didnt have it because Oda hadnt thought of it at that point in the story. I just thought I'd add that. I dont really disagree with what you had said though.
Crocodile in alabasta had kinda given up on his dreams was mentally damaged by white beard while the one in marineford had had a new lease of life hence his strength
Lucci definitely deserves a spot among the 1st Commanders. Meanwhile the most I can give Crocodile right now is mid-tier Commander level. Like the Queen, Jinbei, Jozu, Ace, Smoothie caliber. All they way down to Doffy level. The most I can assume is that he got Armament Haki and Observation Haki and Marineford already gave him a buff through his Impel Down prison gains in physical stats. But I do agree that he is basically like the 1st Commander to Mihawk who is the Yonko caliber fighter of Crossguild. So Oda will probably bring him up to be among the 1st Commanders in strength. Because I think that's the level you need to be at to at least be effective against top tiers like the Admirals and Yonko.
I’m full on riding the croc agenda. Bro is definitely 1st commander level rn and may keep getting stronger. Oda just needs to finally confirm he has haki now (and that buggy is a D)
assuming were talking about pretimeskip lucci considering the start of the series up to marineford is only 3 months....how did crocodile get such an insane power increase for marineford? needing to activate logia defense only applies to new users of the power. Crocodile is experienced so luccis speed is irrelevant to bypassing that. crocodile has the advantage since all he has to do is touch lucci with his right hand. or he could use ground death. there isn't really a scenario where lucci wins without the use of water. post time skip crocodile is losing.
Great video, Rob Lucci is just that guy now. But the part where you mentioned logia Intangibility not being passive, that is weird. Because the evidence you showed was a gag moment. Because if that was actual evidence, it would literally be the only time that shows logia intangibility isn't passive. If we take that seriously, Nami punches hurting luffy or zoro should be taken seriously as well. To counter that it's not, look as zoro vs monet. She was scared for her life, she had no time to think about "turning it on".
Oda writes with narrative in mind first, and fits the power scaling in after that. It’s clear that Crocodile was always meant to be significantly strong on the big stage (warlords were considered one of the great powers), but because Luffy encountered him so early in his journey, it makes him appear weaker than that. Part of the purpose of giving him feats in Marineford might even have been to correct this perception (it’s not like he could train in handcuffs). I don’t think we can neatly scale characters in this series outside of obvious distinctions like admiral or Yonko being stronger than their subordinates, etc. And that doesn’t even always work because of cases like Garp or Mihawk. And I think that’s fine; this isn’t DBZ. The story is most important, and who wins a given fight can depend on so many factors outside of a nebulous concept like power level.
One thing people don’t talk about is that luffy has 2 pure victories against lucci. But if we’re being for real he had kind of a gimmicky win against crocodile. Obviously the lucci we’ve seen is stronger than croc but I don’t think it will be the case when we see crocodile in a real battle again.
I personally see Crocodile at Admiral level now or the tier between 1st Yonko Commander-Admiral level. I think right now there are about 5 top tiers, 1st Yonko Commander, the tier between 1st Yonko Commander and Admiral level, which I think Marco occupies that tier, Admiral level, Yonko level, and EOS something like a Pirate King level. I think Yamato occupies Admiral tier.
I think Yamato would be more of a commander tier than admiral tier since they weren't able to pose a threat to Ryokugyu even with the rest of the scabbards present.
The uncertainty when it comes to haki pre-timeskip is what hurts this. Considering that Crocodile had clashed with Whitebeard before the series, him not having haki makes no sense. And the relation between the Rokushiki and haki is also annoyingly unclear. Jinbei’s remark during the Who’s Who fight and information released post Enies Lobby makes it seem like the Rokushiki are at least similar to haki. Maybe the very beginning of armament and observation, before the invisible armament and opening stages of observation. But if that’s the case, given what we’ve seen it seems like Luffy shouldn’t have been able to do anything against Lucci during Enies Lobby. But even with all that in mind, it does seem like Lucci is stronger than Crocodile at every stage we’ve so far. Especially post timeskip. I’d say Lucci is stronger than any Vice Admiral or lower we’ve seen in the story besides legends like Garp and Tsuyu. Crocodile so far hasn’t shown anything close to what we’ve seen from Lucci.
Crocodile has became far stronger, it was shown that he destroyed a whole marine fleet of like 8 ships in less than a minute, as you said, his leadership, fame and wealth make him powerful and influential and honestly he could definetly give a good fight to Lucci.
hey zage do you think koby is going to master All 7 Rokushiki styles becoming like Lucci except even much more stronger and powerful. That's right, becoming the first Rokushiki HAKI. You sir, with no devil fruit.
It’s been stated he mastered Rokushiki after the timeskip but as for the Rokuogan I’m not sure. He’ll definitely be worthy of it so I’d like if he did master it.
@@zagessj luffy slam into the sea prism staff which smoker had on his back tho and we saw smoke and fire stall out each other so I would think smoker can touch ace without haki imo but that’s jus me
I don’t think a pre time skip lucci is beating crocodile, sure the vivre card says he has haki but it was never actually shown so he wouldn’t even be able to hit him, great video though
If pre-timeskip Lucci did basically have Armament Haki then he destroys Enel. I rest my case on that. Also Crocodile getting prison gains is so funny man😂. That's why if Doffy comes back you know Oda will do some bs and have him fight Admiral level opponents or some shit even though Dressrossa G4 was shitting on him.
A common comment I’m getting is about “Logia fruits have passive intangibility” despite the example that shows the contrary in 5:05.
This example can be passed up as a gag scene and not valid which is fair but other instances of Logia users being caught off guard, blitzed or standing around can just be argued to be in the element form already examples being Enel, Kizaru w/ Apoo, Monet w/ Zoro etc.
Personally I don’t think there’s a definitive answer to this so I don’t really care which stance you guys take.
As it pertains to this video and match up it’s just an argument for those who will cope and aren’t willing to accept Oda retconning Lucci and CP9 to have Haki preskip.
10:03 swordsmanship = skill with the sword and skill is not strength
His skill with a sword is the highest among the scabbards not his strength is the highest Among the scabbards
Imo once we see Crocodile fight he’ll be very strong, stronger than current Zoro, sanji, and Marco
1:23 _“One’s bounty is a measure of one’s strength as well as their general threat to the government.“_
It’s mostly the latter.
I personally think Crocodile is gonna surprise us when he returns and I’ve had stocks for him since he popped off in marineford. seeing my favourite Sandy and extremely intelligent mob boss being relevant also makes me have high hopes for when doffy returns to the story (because let’s be honest he will, he’s either gonna join cross guild or Blackbeard). Croc’s been my favourite villan since he was introduced in alabasta and I have no doubts that he’ll definitely be stronger than Robert hold this L. Ucci. I probably have him in my top 5 yonko commanders behind Beckman, Aokiji and Mihawk off of portrayal, narrative importance and bias but if we’re going off pure feats, I unfortunately gotta give it to Robert Hold this L. Ucci. I will say though, 1 thing they both have in common is that they are undoubtedly some of the drippiest and most stylish characters in the series
I see lucci have jinbei level because luffy low diff him zoro mid diff lucci so that means sanji high diff him jinbei extreme diff him and I think crocodile will be stronger than jinbei I know it filler but crocodile looked like he was going to pack up jinbei and Jinbei got one shotted by mihawk while crocodile stood up to him. I also think he will have a awakening logia which is overpowered that why we hold the admirals and Blackbeard so highly and crocodile 1v1 Douglas bullet when he was determined and the show is showing that he gaining his determination from back then and he will learn haki and buggy will motivate you so I see him yc1 and admiral level since he all he got other than mihawk so that place mihawk and crocodile higher and mihawk respect crocodile strength
I'd say he's between a first commander and admiral right now. With Mr 1, he could probably take greenbull.
No may he beats greenbull
@@SeanEvans-mx1gg Actually, yeah. His fruit would be a good counter to GB's fruit.
I think Crocodile at least is Doflamingo level now which could range between 3rd Division or 2nd Division Commander level. He obviously has Awakened his Sand Fruit even before Alabasta I believe as he told Luffy back then he mastered his Devil Fruit to perfection and was the first character in the story to bring up Devil Fruit Awakenings during Impel Down. Crocodile was extremely nerfed during Alabasta because he didn't use his Awakening on Luffy because he thought he didn't need too as he thought of him as your average rookie the way Big Mom was nerfed in Wano in her fight against Law and Kidd with her not using her Advanced Conqueror's Haki Coating once on them because she didn't need to use her best against rookie brats.
There is absolutely no reason to believe a highly ambitious character like crocodile that’s been free this whole time hasn’t gotten significantly stronger. I think he’s gonna be on a whole new level compared to where he was in alabasta.
You can argue that Crocodile lost his edge due to him being in Alabasta for years laying low. There was no real challenge to stimulate growth or maintain power. Look at how much weaker Moria got after clashing equally with Kaido. Their respective feats is what made them Warlords in the first place.
Obviously, Lucci did not have haki pre-timeskip. If he did, then he couldn't use it consciously. He attacked Luffy countless times pre-timeskip. It was stated that Lucci could not hurt Luffy at all outside of sharp attacks and the Rouku-Ougan.
Oda just retconned it so that’s how it is now
Kaido had haki and couldn't really hurt Luffy with his blunt attacks either same for katakuri, doffy, cracker and kizaru
@zagessj Usopp has observation, but he can't use it consciously. That's Lucci 2 years ago. The only way it makes sense, even with a ret-con.
Who said he wasn’t getting hurt? He pretty much passed out from pain did he not . 16 pistol thing also looks like ryou
@@anactualsandwich5375 Bro. Read the chapters.
I wonder who crocodile may fight in the future, it’d be cool to a fight with him vs sanji
I got a feeling when Croc skills is showcased again he’ll be somewhere within in the range of Mihawk. Not saying he’s on Mihawks level(I’m assuming he’s in Shanks league) but will have considerable fighting impact at a Yonko level
His barely yc1
Croc> he has a broken logia all he needs is good haki which he probably has trained for.
bro has a pretty mid logia
Logia mid asl u need to be close to use it and it ain that strong when ur not in a sandy environment
@@cmonbruh6636 1 touch and lucci is dead
@@a123_epic yeah sure if he could manage to get close and attack
@@cmonbruh6636 I feel this is definitely possible, Crocodile has a 1.9 billion bounty in the war he sustained minor injuries while yonko commanders like Jozu lost an entire arm
Logia fruit users can train with their fruit to the point where their body unconsciously turns intangible to attacks. Crocodile stated that he mastered his fruit even though we didnt see him using awakening but that could be explained away by saying that he was awakened which is why it rained after Luffy beat him or that he didnt have it because Oda hadnt thought of it at that point in the story. I just thought I'd add that. I dont really disagree with what you had said though.
The scene where Crocodile transforms his surroundings into sand was theorised to be his awakening.
Great video!
🙏
Crocodile in alabasta had kinda given up on his dreams was mentally damaged by white beard while the one in marineford had had a new lease of life hence his strength
I heard somewhere that crocodile tapped into his true power at marine ford. If crocodile was faster, he could dry up all the water out of lucci.
Lucci definitely deserves a spot among the 1st Commanders. Meanwhile the most I can give Crocodile right now is mid-tier Commander level. Like the Queen, Jinbei, Jozu, Ace, Smoothie caliber. All they way down to Doffy level. The most I can assume is that he got Armament Haki and Observation Haki and Marineford already gave him a buff through his Impel Down prison gains in physical stats. But I do agree that he is basically like the 1st Commander to Mihawk who is the Yonko caliber fighter of Crossguild. So Oda will probably bring him up to be among the 1st Commanders in strength. Because I think that's the level you need to be at to at least be effective against top tiers like the Admirals and Yonko.
Top work as always, I definitely won't be surprised if Croc is gonna end up at least at Lucci lvl
Current Crocodile > Current Lucci
Oda literally admitted he introduced crocodile too early
@@a123_epic doesnt chsnge much
@@Naldinho456 Crocodile slams
@@a123_epic in being useless yh
I’m full on riding the croc agenda. Bro is definitely 1st commander level rn and may keep getting stronger. Oda just needs to finally confirm he has haki now (and that buggy is a D)
Crocodile hasn't been sitting down doing nothing. A reminder that he was holding his own against Yonko Commanders at Marineford. That was 2yrs ago.
assuming were talking about pretimeskip lucci
considering the start of the series up to marineford is only 3 months....how did crocodile get such an insane power increase for marineford?
needing to activate logia defense only applies to new users of the power. Crocodile is experienced so luccis speed is irrelevant to bypassing that.
crocodile has the advantage since all he has to do is touch lucci with his right hand. or he could use ground death. there isn't really a scenario where lucci wins without the use of water.
post time skip crocodile is losing.
Great video, Rob Lucci is just that guy now.
But the part where you mentioned logia Intangibility not being passive, that is weird. Because the evidence you showed was a gag moment. Because if that was actual evidence, it would literally be the only time that shows logia intangibility isn't passive. If we take that seriously, Nami punches hurting luffy or zoro should be taken seriously as well.
To counter that it's not, look as zoro vs monet. She was scared for her life, she had no time to think about "turning it on".
Monet is a good example. Someone could argue against it by asking to prove she was in her tangible state in that moment.
Post Timeskip lucci Slams post Timeskip crocodile
Damn i didn't know Lucci had Armament Haki pre Timeskip
In your dreams.
@@flyingpizza7486 it's reality thi
@@Naldinho456 it really isn't
@@flyingpizza7486 really is Croc is a kaku victim
@@Naldinho456 I don't understand what your trying to say. I assume tour trying to tell me that kaku would beat Croc but I hope your not that retarded.
Good video 👍
Im really tired of the crocidle disrespect only because he lost 2 Luffy early in the manga. (I see where you come from, just disagree).
He is asS
Oda writes with narrative in mind first, and fits the power scaling in after that. It’s clear that Crocodile was always meant to be significantly strong on the big stage (warlords were considered one of the great powers), but because Luffy encountered him so early in his journey, it makes him appear weaker than that. Part of the purpose of giving him feats in Marineford might even have been to correct this perception (it’s not like he could train in handcuffs).
I don’t think we can neatly scale characters in this series outside of obvious distinctions like admiral or Yonko being stronger than their subordinates, etc. And that doesn’t even always work because of cases like Garp or Mihawk. And I think that’s fine; this isn’t DBZ. The story is most important, and who wins a given fight can depend on so many factors outside of a nebulous concept like power level.
0:04 Hunter x Hunter OST ✨👌🏾
One thing people don’t talk about is that luffy has 2 pure victories against lucci. But if we’re being for real he had kind of a gimmicky win against crocodile.
Obviously the lucci we’ve seen is stronger than croc but I don’t think it will be the case when we see crocodile in a real battle again.
my gosh Crocodile is so overhyped.
Lucci>Crocodile>pre timeskip Lucci
Crocodile's power up from Alabasta to Impel Down made no sense to me.
Plot amp
I personally see Crocodile at Admiral level now or the tier between 1st Yonko Commander-Admiral level.
I think right now there are about 5 top tiers, 1st Yonko Commander, the tier between 1st Yonko Commander and Admiral level, which I think Marco occupies that tier, Admiral level, Yonko level, and EOS something like a Pirate King level.
I think Yamato occupies Admiral tier.
I don’t believe so. I think he may be high yc1, but yonko/admiral tier is way above that imo.
I have Yamato also high yc1
croco is NOT on the same tier as kizaru or fuji, neither is yamato.
Admirals can 1v4 yonko commanders and win. Nobody you mentioned can do that
I think Yamato would be more of a commander tier than admiral tier since they weren't able to pose a threat to Ryokugyu even with the rest of the scabbards present.
😂
I got Croc off of pure vibes
Feat wise = Rob Lucci
Narrative wise = Crocodile
The uncertainty when it comes to haki pre-timeskip is what hurts this. Considering that Crocodile had clashed with Whitebeard before the series, him not having haki makes no sense.
And the relation between the Rokushiki and haki is also annoyingly unclear. Jinbei’s remark during the Who’s Who fight and information released post Enies Lobby makes it seem like the Rokushiki are at least similar to haki. Maybe the very beginning of armament and observation, before the invisible armament and opening stages of observation.
But if that’s the case, given what we’ve seen it seems like Luffy shouldn’t have been able to do anything against Lucci during Enies Lobby.
But even with all that in mind, it does seem like Lucci is stronger than Crocodile at every stage we’ve so far. Especially post timeskip. I’d say Lucci is stronger than any Vice Admiral or lower we’ve seen in the story besides legends like Garp and Tsuyu. Crocodile so far hasn’t shown anything close to what we’ve seen from Lucci.
Ok moria clashed with kaido, does he have haki? If so why didn't he use it against Luffy in thriller bark
Crocodile has became far stronger, it was shown that he destroyed a whole marine fleet of like 8 ships in less than a minute, as you said, his leadership, fame and wealth make him powerful and influential and honestly he could definetly give a good fight to Lucci.
mythical zoan are most powerful devil fruits nd logias don't have to activate intangibility its just on
I think they have . Remember when luffy hit smoker in the back a
hey zage do you think koby is going to master All 7 Rokushiki styles becoming like Lucci except even much more stronger and powerful. That's right, becoming the first Rokushiki HAKI. You sir, with no devil fruit.
It’s been stated he mastered Rokushiki after the timeskip but as for the Rokuogan I’m not sure. He’ll definitely be worthy of it so I’d like if he did master it.
Logia is passive
There isn’t an undeniable example of it being passive but there’s an example of the contrary which I put on screen.
@@zagessj luffy slam into the sea prism staff which smoker had on his back tho and we saw smoke and fire stall out each other so I would think smoker can touch ace without haki imo but that’s jus me
Stamped showed more of time skip coco boy he clashes with zoro and lucci clashes with sanji
I don’t think a pre time skip lucci is beating crocodile, sure the vivre card says he has haki but it was never actually shown so he wouldn’t even be able to hit him, great video though
If it says he has haki, he has haki. Why are you the reader arguing with direct statements frm the editors/Oda?
It’s flat out stated 💀
If Crocodile got advanced Observation / Armament Haki, he'll win. If not... Lucci wins.
No way he has that
If pre-timeskip Lucci did basically have Armament Haki then he destroys Enel. I rest my case on that. Also Crocodile getting prison gains is so funny man😂. That's why if Doffy comes back you know Oda will do some bs and have him fight Admiral level opponents or some shit even though Dressrossa G4 was shitting on him.
Disagree. Croc blocked mihawk and saved luffy. Plus he is probably awakened by now as well
One piece is just extremly incosistent characters strengh makes no sense many times
Lucci no diffs crocodile 😂
I also think crocodile might be even katakuri level at this point if not even stronger I think he’s coming back in a huge way
Ar every piunt in time was better at everything
Lucci high diffs
Lucci beats crocodile
Yeah
Croc neg diffs(based on narrative hehe)
“Narrative” in other words your head canon 😂
@@zagessj Yes🤫
Damn sad your boyfriend loses huh
@@Naldinho456My boyfriend is crocomom????
Thanks G