Has the Corvette market split?
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- Опубліковано 30 вер 2024
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There definitely appears to be a split.
There are those, like myself, who simply do not care for the C8 styling.
I have never been a big fan of European styled sports cars.
One of the things I've always loved about the Corvette, is its undeniably American style and performance.
I plan to enjoy my C5 as long as I am physically able to do so.
Z06?
I'm with you 100%. C8 is one of my least desired generations.
That's interesting. That's the reason why I'm trying to buy one, the combination of the new styling with the American performance. I had an opportunity to get a cayman GTS and I passed.
Harley Earl originally was inspired by euro sports cars, and we can see that in the C1. Just like the Japanese and the Miata! The corvette whether we like it or not has been a spin on the euro sports car. Every ZR1 was created to dominate the Europeans at their own game. C4 ZR1, broke records and was attainable, C6 ZR1 dominated every track it went to, same with the C7. The first one, ZL1, was a absolute monster and showed the world what was possible. Every time GM made a corvette, it seemed to me that they were trying to prove something. That GM could make a sports car that was a better euro sports car than even the Europeans could make. So the fact the GM took a 458 Italia and was like, "we can do better". Then proceeded to do better, than even the newest Ferrari is wonderful. The split happens because people do not understand the context of the corvette, the passion, the thrill.
Absolutely, couldn't agree more.
To say nothing of the fact that Zora was pushing for a mid engine Corvette as far back as the 60s.
The dealbreaker for me is manual trans. C8 is not exactly my cup of tea style wise but I certainly consider it a real corvette. Without a manual option, however, I will never be a buyer.
For the first few years of production in the 1950s, ONLY automatic transmissions were offered in the Corvette.
So I guess you'd never want one of those either?
I have a C4 and just bought this year in March. All Corvettes are Corvettes but I will agree with this gent! No manual, nonfor me! 10:49 😊
Only owned ever one automatic. The way things are I'll have to nurse my C6 and old Ford pick-up for a long time.
I have a C7 Z51 M7. I feel the same way.
why would anyone want an automatic 6 cyl or tiny v8 corvette when for less $$ you can have a manual 5.7l anyway? @@BigFiveJack
I definitely think there is a split, but I think it's the money split more than the front engine vs mid-engine split. I do have to admit the bang for the buck you get with the C8 vs a comparable European super car, but the styling and price point isn't for the average ham and egger IMHO. I think I'll hang on to my 2011 C6 Grand Sport for a while longer 😊. Oh, and on the subject of getting too old to get in and out of a Corvette. I'm 70 years old and I go to the gym three times a week expressly, so I'll be able to get in and out of my Vette. Many smiles per gallon ya'll.
I don't gym at 74 don't care how it looks getting in and out of my C5 Z06. When I'm driving it I feel young!!!
I think a lot of people like myself looked at it this way, either I get a new c8 stingray or I get a c7 z06. For me it was a no brainer to get the c7 z06 because it’s the last front engine corvette and it’s a z06 so it’s just more special than a regular c8. I already see c8 stingrays everywhere lol.
C1, C2, C3, C4, C5, C6, C7 and the C8 are all good Corvettes!!! Purchase what you like and don't put the others down!!!! Welcome to the family🎉😄
Amen Brother!
Thank YOU! Hey there all corvettes!
@@tonysteppan8495Well said
Couldn’t have said it better.
Excellent and most insightful post I’ve ever seen on the subject.
I'm 67 and have owned 6 corvettes. I still have a 2016C7 Z06 and a 74 convertable with an LS3 and a 6 Speed. Love them both! C8 Vettes are nice,just not for me.
I’m 74, currently own a 72 T-Top 4sp. Std L48 which I have since 1973 yes 50 yrs in my possession. 5 yrs ago purchase a new 2019 Stingray Coupe w Auto (8 K off sticker) for when I get older and have difficulty shifting the 72. A C8 would be nice but I really don’t think I need it at this point in time in my life, because like Lyle said front engines is all I know.
nailed it
That C8's 2.8 seconds 0 - 60 is certainly a quantum leap forward from earlier models...
I split on sports cars long ago... have a RWD 1975 MG Midget w/ V8... and a Mid Engine 1985 Fiero... guess the rest of the world has now caught up with me... LOL !!!
upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b0/1976_mg_midget_arp.jpg/990px-1976_mg_midget_arp.jpg
50 years with one lady. Congratulations 🍾🎉🎊🎈!
You know what I mean? 😂😅😊
Nothing against the C8 itself, I just don't care about putting money dn & waiting for a car. That & the prices went crazy when the C8 came out.
Personally,I think my C5 is the last "Looks like a Corvette" The longer I keep this car the more I love it. 2004 C5,64,000 miles
Absolutely brother I couldn't agree more that's why I bought 2 rare bad ass C5's! The body lines on the C5 are timeless.
Agreed! Love my Torch Red 2000, 41,000 miles.
I intend on reaching 200,000 miles on my '02'. 87k left to go.
Amen to that. Plan on keeping my C5 vert forever.
The C5 is beautiful. I think it has the best and smoothest lines since the C3. You have to have pop-ups, and the C 7 looks like a Transformer toy car
People should just buy what they like and can afford. I have a 93 c4, and i enjoy it every time i drive it.
I’ve loved Corvettes from the first time I saw a 53…as a Kid (I’m 76 now). I got my first and only Corvette at age 68 and I still love driving it, cleaning it and just looking at it. I think your assessment of a split is right on. I really like the looks and performance of the C8, but it is much more difficult for me to get in and out of than my C6. I’m 6’2” with long legs and it just didn’t fit me right. That’s probably a good thing, because I can’t afford one anyway, lest I want my wife to divorce me. Something I have noticed is that when I wave at C8 owners, they rarely seem to wave back. If they do, they usually are another old dude like me. I have a friend who sold his Mercedes SL500 and bought the Anniversary C8 in pearl white, it’s a beautiful car, but he rarely drives it. You have to drive them! Anyway, I always enjoy your informative videos, and thanks for what you do for the Corvette community.
Yeah. C8 drivers don't wave. Yup, the market has split.
i will take a c3 vette everytime.its a classic, that will never go out of style...
Yes the split is inevitable because the platform is no longer the same.
I think you are 100% correct. I am 63 years old. I own a 1969 C3 and have always been a corvette guy. They have lost me on the C8. To me it is no longer an American muscle car but more of an European super car. I have never cared much for them mainly because they are not affordable to me or most hard working Americans.
Hi Lyle. What about the split for those of us appalled at GM discontinuing the manual transmission? No enthusiast passionate about driving would drive an automatic and the drop of the manual is just not acceptable
Styles and interests change, and the C8 departure was inevitable. I’m 68 and drove a C1 as a teenager. So, yeah, older folks are attached to those times. Affordability has a lot to do with it too. I paid $600 for that pristine ‘58 from washing dishes. Not too many teens are driving Vettes these days. And now the C8 has taken that price progression to yet another level, and older models are keeping pace as a result.
I’m hanging with my C5 for the duration. 😎🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
I still think people sleep on the C5 CORVETTE. I own 2 TRUE RARE C5's 2001 & 2002 Quality rare color low mileage C5's are going to be valuable
And usable for the foreseeable future, too! Especially the Z06.... Lyle
Rare color. lol The only reason they are rare is because nobody liked the color to begin with so nobody bought them.
@@bassb450eh, debatable. One could say fear of a “bad” or “undesirable” resell caused that. Kinda like the snake eating it’s own tail.
@bassb450 I knew some asshole like yourself would say this ....I'm ready for you.. I own a RARE 1 OF 2 quicksilver over torch red interior and white convertible top with all the certification from bowling green and the corvette museum. My 2nd is a 2002
1 of 500, speedway white torch red interior with a white top. I have all the documentation..I've won multiple multiple car show Trophies with both these C5s. I get offers & compliments all the freaking time..Next time you open that trap on the internet.. You might want to think twice about your off the hip comments you 🤡
@@InclusiveOrangeTell you what he doesn't know shit that's for sure..especially HOW THE C5 CHANGED THE GAME TO WHAT THE CORVETTE IS TODAY.. They almost quit making a corvette but the c5 engineers went to the lab & pulled this beast out to the market.. But i'm sure that clown doesn't even know that true story..
It is very funny that I catch this video as I just got back from a ride/errand run in my C6 just a little bit ago, and there's another split you completely left off the table, and that seems to be a cultural one. While I was out today, I happened to pull up next to a C8 in some traffic, and the guy didn't/wouldn't even look over for a nod, wave, or anything. Had that been a C7 or earlier, that would've almost been a guaranteed roll-down-the-window for a quick chat... but no, not even an acknowledgement, and the C8 owners not waiving is now almost a given.
I have a C6 and you are right on the money and as far as I'm concerned C8 owners and buyers are just more wall street types and assorted snobs and not real car guys or girls or do they have any Vette knowledge of the Corvette history. I don't think any of them would know how to put air in their tires. I don't look at them, or wave either so I guess we are even.😉😄
100% correct. Most C8 owners I know (and they are my friends) don't give a darn about Corvettes if they are not C8's. I don't want to say snobby about it but....well...I don't know what else to call it. Almost never a waive either.
@@EagleS197 WOW did you nail it!
Someone is waaay too sensitive on this thread!
I’m on my second corvette (a C8) and have been fortunate enough to have owned close to 20 exotic/go fast cars in the past 40 years, and I still give and get waves and thumbs up and yes - some people in similar vehicles do ignore me and pay attention to the road and traffic. I don’t take that personal.
I do act friendly toward car fans and curious types when they approach me wanting to talk or take a picture. It’s part of the fun of owning a big boy toy! Try a cars and coffee get together in your area and you will find lots of guys who love cars. Some of us are wealthy and some of us aren’t. We just spend all our disposable income on car stuff. Either way, it’s all good. Nobody is better than anyone else, we just all love our cars. PS My first hot rod was a go cart with a tuned Briggs and Stratton !
Hmmm. I loved Corvette’s since the C3’s & we just bought a C8. It’s definitely been an adjustment owing one. We’ll make sure to wave & say hello. 😊
That corvette suv is hideous. Need to get a better designer.
Right?? Like, this is the BEST you can do??? If they made it really a stand-out bada$$, I could see it being a big success...but they just mildly repackage the same tired shape of every GM SUV, I think it fall on its face. We shall see.... Lyle :)
@@csvette I don’t wanna sound like a corvette purist who doesn’t believe the C8 Or any changes to corvette isn’t good, but it doesn’t make sense for a car with over 70 years of racing heritage to become an SUV just because of the market trend. It just looks plain ugly, not at all like a vette.
@@derincatalbas9425 Have you seen a Mustang Mach-E? 🤣🤣🤣 As a Corvette lover, I'm not super-excited at the prospect, either, but if they made it really mean looking and truly a breed apart from the run of the mill GM midsize utes, it could be at least inoffensive.....
@@csvetteyeah Im with you would prob be nice like a porsche cayan or bmw x3 but it has to stand out cant be half azzed
I’ve been noticing the past couple of years at Carlisle that C8’s dominate the field more than any other generation. The show field is 90% C8, 10% everything else. Fewer C1-C3’s are showing up now. The market has definitely split!
One thing you CAN say about the C8 people, though...they are excited and energetic! This is a good thing for the hobby! Lyle :)
I split on sports cars long ago... have a RWD 1975 MG Midget w/ V8... and a Mid Engine 1985 Fiero... guess the rest of the world has now caught up with me... LOL !!!
upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b0/1976_mg_midget_arp.jpg/990px-1976_mg_midget_arp.jpg
@@csvetteAgreed! 🎉
I am new to Corvette hobby and they are such awesome cars. I already want a 96 with the LT4 and/or a C7/8?
Let's talk numbers: 59000 C8 built in 2023...!!!
Cash cow for GM, LLC.
C7 ,as other new designs were, people were slow to fall in love with design. I was....
My first new C3 was 72 convert. $6556 MSRP.
That amt won't cover sales tax on C8.
Many factors at play here! !
I go to museum very often to watch R8c customers pick up their new C8...... Rare to see a young buyer!! IMO grey hair & sore hips are STILL the overwhelming % if buyers are R8C .......
COMMENTS?
Unless I WIN a C8, I won't buy one
@@karter9908 - CarterFlation tripled the prices of cars over a mere 4 years! BriberyFlation doing the same... unfortunately, wages don't go up anywheres near that fast...
I'm a gen X'er (56) and had only considered European cars (Porsche 911S and Aston Martin) for my retirement car. Then the C8 made an appearance. While I'm retiring in December I had the opportunity to acquire a C8 spec'ed the way I wanted (2023 2LT convertible Z51), and I jumped at the opportunity two weeks ago. You are spot on in that people who never considered prior Corvette iterations are definitely drawn to the C8.
I am the same. Love the new car. Mid engine was a must. I am building a GT40 replicar and will track it. That’ll be my retirement project.
The C8's are terrific, but my 73 still brings a smile to my face everytime I drive her!
Save the manuals 🤙
I Agree and I think is healthy to bring new folks into the Corvette community. I have an early C3 and a C4. I bought a C8 and think it is the best yet!
We were all new to the family when we bought our first VETTE. Mine was a C3 in 1985 and I miss it but now have a C6 Z and haven't looked back. Had a C5 Z and miss it, too.
I think the split could also be impacted by cost new vettes are expensive of course all cars are historically so ppl are keeping their current vettes for now. Plus body style was a big departure I say c8s look less like a vette than previous yrs and some ppl love it, some ppl hate it. I like that it is mid engine but c7 and prior just look more like vettes to me than the c8 which looks more like a McLaren. Just my opinion.
I definitely agree with what you're saying I have my C5 and just love it but I do like the C8 they're pretty badass looking car
The move to mid-engine necessitated some exterior style changes to accommodate the rear mounted engine. They want to charge upwards of $100k (or $200k for z06 models), they have to be able to compete with Italian sports cars on a similar playing level.
Say Corvette SUV with a straight face🤣
😂😂
I think the market has split. That's not necessarily a bad thing. I own a C4 and a C5. I'm retired at 70. I won't be buying any more Corvettes. BTW...I love my C5.
Awesome video!
We own a C6 and C7. Have had discussions about moving one of them to a C8. We both feel the C7 is the last true Corvette with the sexy lines. C6 even more so. We also noticed a bit of an attitude change with some of the C8 owners. They don't see to be fully engaged in the Corvette story. A bit of a superiority thing. I would love to get more waves from the C8 owners.
One other thought, C1-C7 had long running series, with C7 being shorter series, but now changes seem be much shorter series of time. This may be only my view, but new does not mean better. I'm an old vette fan!
Your wrist is gonna get tired waiting for a wave-back
I’m a 70 year old C8 guy. Not my 1st corvette . Had a C6, sold it to a friend (it’s in my garage) & bought a C7, loved it, miss it. The dealer gave me what I paid for the C7. Which for me made very easy to buy the C8. Three totally different cars. Love them all, C6, C7 & now the C8.
How many miles did you have on your C7 and what did they give you for it?
Lyle, you hit it out of the park once again with this excellent discussion! Do I think there's a split? Let me just say...HELL YEAH. However, the split I see is the one created when GM, in its infinite wisdom elected to include AFM (Active Fuel Management) on ALL C7-C8 Corvettes (except the C7 ZR1) so I can say with certainty, for that reason, I will NEVER buy a C7-C8 Corvette except for the C7 ZR1. Call me old fashioned if you will, but I don't embrace the idea of driving a Corvette with AFM that could malfunction at ANY time and "take out" the engine. Nope, just not my style. I'll stick with my C5 and C6 Corvettes thank you very much... Now, if GM comes to their senses and STOPS including AFM on future C8s, I'll consider buying one. Now 70 and having owned 10 Corvettes of the C3, C4, C5, C6 variety, I submit that the C5 Corvette was and still is the best-looking Corvette ever produced.
Took possession of my first Corvette today. 2000 C5 coupe.
A corvette suv is a dumb idea and only lowers the image of the brand.. Porsche SUV in comparison in not called 911 SUV ..lol and that's smart ... this is bad marketing for sure... The C8 is remarkable, my friend just got one ... I am still hard-core on the C6 as the last Corvette Corvette, the 7 has departure in the traditional style.. but all generations sit well with me..An SUV... will generate under the breath laughter when seen on the road.
You are spot on as you usually are with this.The C8 Vette is a giant leap from all that came before it.Yet by time even the traditional Corvette buyer will accept this one too.This rift will definitely take sometime to go away, many changes in life are not easy to take are they.
"Yet by time even the traditional Corvette buyer will accept this one too" Not all of them will. I certainly won't. I wouldn't even consider owning anything newer than a 1977. With stock sized wheels and tires.
Don’t forget the C6 market is appreciating in value also. I’ll take a C6 over a C7 any day. The lines are classic. Enough said.
My thought on that is that if the C6 keeps appreciating it should keep the C7s at the same value for the most part and they won’t drop too much… these are the final front engines vettes and the final manuals
I'll take a C5 before a C7...
I think I will have to add a C6, a C7, and a C8 to my C5. Going to need a bigger garage.
@@jimharrow8104I’d take a C5 over a C6… I bought a C7 earlier this year but C5s have been grabbing my attention ever since… they are very sexy cars and those pop up headlights add another cool factor to them… I’d like a magnetic red coupe with a manual as a second vette one day…
I respectfully disagree. Here in the D/FW area, C6 prices, especially early C6 prices, seem to be softening. I see decent-looking 2005 C6s with about 60k miles selling for low $20K - high teens money. The idea of picking up a second one for my other half is becoming more and more attractive.
I’d say you’re spot on with the split me personally I feel like the C6 was the last true Corvette and some might even say the C5 or even before that but I feel like the C7 was an upgrade, but pretty much starting to veer off from what traditional Corvettes have been, and the C8 has completely veered off in a different direction it’s basically a super car at this point Corvettes used to be affordable, and now they’re in supercar territory. That being said if you’re a Corvette fan, you love all the Corvettes. But the Corvette used to be for someone that was a blue-collar worker that worked hard every day and was able to purchase something fun that he had earned. The new Corvette Your average blue-collar guy ain’t gonna be able to buy that car and it sucks. The Corvette should be affordable for the blue-collar worker.
I agree with your C8 stats. The new Vette is the new " American Super Car killer". GM hit the mark with a low price point , with high performance. This was also a time of unusual time of finances. With bitcoin money, and stimulus money. I would say it would be interesting to see your stats in a few years when the recession hits. I can see you point. I don't think the loyalty of the C8 buyer is the same of the past. I just retired out of the auto industry here in Tampa. Im old school. I just turned 50. I just bought a 1988 vert. The car I remember seeing on my walls when I was in high school. Now that C4 red corvette is now in the garage. I drove new cars daily for years. The excitement is not there for me anymore. I drove the C8 a few weeks ago. I just couldn't commit to buy one. I could afford it, but just didn't feel right. I know C4 is the bastard child , but it puts a smile on my face. It's all about the experience for me. Great topic.
Cudos to you brother! Buy and drive what makes you smile !!! 👍🏼
@@justinlanglais9825 I agree. Just something about driving a car you enjoy. Miles of smiles. Thank you
It may be splitting because the generation is getting older that used to own the 50s in the 60s and the 70s.
I own a c6 and its probably the sexy model of all time besides the new c8, and very happy with it ,just my opinion
Depends on where your at? Last week i was at a car show, I own a 96 Convertible LT4 car, and there was a C2, C3, C4, C5, C6 C7, C8. I talked to all of them, they were all very nice, nobody looked down on any of the corvettes there. We all enjoyed are cars, no issues for me.
I don't think that one group looks down on a another in the Corvette community (or, at least, they shouldn't)...I think the platform change has split the hobby into Corvette purists and newbies with money, to be crass. Everyone at a show should always get along like they did at the one you mention. Lyle :)
We were discussing that very subject, turns out I have the original sticker price for my 96, it was $47,234, in 1996, In today's money that would be equivalent to around $90,000 dollars. Corvettes were typically bought by people with extra money for toys, I'm not sure that's changed? the only thing I would add is the prices of living has skyrocketed to the point middle class people can no longer afford the luxury.@@csvette
Not the best measurement but I notice that many of the C8 drivers are not as active at the “wave” as other generations- would hate to see that tradition fall by the way
I like all Covettes, old, new, front or mid engine. The only problem I have with the C8 is the insane dealer markups. So I got a more reasonably priced C7.
It was a pleasure to meet you in Carlisle! Great video and I have to agree with you. I have met so many C8 Corvette owners that have never owned a Corvette. The exotic look and mid engine placment attracted them to the C8. So yes, I believe there is definately a split.
I think you are right Lyle, as usual. Loved the C2, then C3 (aka rattletrap) didn't like it all. C4 was ok, but not great. C5 - to me the best looking Corvette of all times, but needed some refinement. C6 - My favorite of all time, Love it [ Thanks for all your advice on that car Lyle ], while not quite a good looking as C5, but was way more refined, faster, nicer interior, better audio, just all around a better car. C7? A problem child holding pattern to transition to the C8. C8? Hate it! You could not give me one [ Ok you could, but I would sell it ], don't like the look, don't like a pick-up truck window behind my head, not a daily driver if you need to go shopping, etc. My grandson just loves it! So, I think you nailed it Lyle, C8 is basically for the New Generation, but not me. Remember the 2009 Concept "Sting Ray" ? I was saving my money for that, and kept saving. But alas, C8. Thanks for all your tips and anyone needing Corvette work? Go to C&S and ask for Lyle.
I love the C8 except for one HUGE PROBLEM! They only come in automatic! I don't care about front engine ect. I currently own a 40th Anniversary 6speed convertible and a 2015 7 speed Z51 convertible. I would gladly pay $25k more for a C8 stick and then I'd have 3 Vettes. I have driven my friends C8 convertible but it is not as much fun as a manual! With a stick you drive the car, with an automatic the car drives you!!! Maybe when I'm in my late 70's I'll get a C8! Too bad GM only offers a dumbed down version of Americas greatest sports car!!!!
Hello Lyle, love your content! I just bought (a week ago and should arrive on transport tomorrow) a 2011 Corvette Grand Sport, velocity yellow 6 speed with 47,000 original miles!! I am so excited!!!
I am 80 yrs old and have ordered a 2024 Z06 Corvette. So where does that put me??? The build date for my Z06 is Oct 9th. I also have a 1978 silver anniversary I bought new in Nov 1977 and restoring it. I am a C3 fan but back in 1968, when I bought a 1968 427 corvette, I fell in love with the mid-engine concept.
Now I will have both to enjoy.
I'm not a fan of the C8. Not keen on the idea of a corvette suv either, but I also grew up with the OG vettes, so that mindset is definitely playing a role in how I see Corvettes. Get off my lawn kid! Lol
(Warning, long comment ahead 😅) I’ll say the same thing that I did when the Mustang Mach-E was making some noise (haha 😂) with enthusiasts before it went into production, if an automaker is going to put a variant of their most beloved, or more accurately, legendary/iconic vehicle in production & keep that vehicle’s iconic name while being a major departure of what that name has always meant & what the actual car has always been, they may as well take that name & make it its own brand. An example of this is what Hyundai did with the Genesis. Now the Genesis was NOT an iconic/legendary name in Hyundai’s lineup or in the automotive world, I understand that. HOWEVER ☝🏽, instead of continuing making a Genesis Coupe & sedan, they took the opportunity to make Genesis its own brand, which ended up filling Hyundai’s luxury-brand void. Seems like that move has allowed Hyundai to make many Genesis variants that otherwise probably wouldn’t have happened if it wasn’t it’s own brand. Now imagine, what Ford or GM/Chevy could do FREELY if they took the most beloved/iconic/legendary name in their history/lineup, & made it its own separate brand. I feel like most people that love those iconic cars, that are attached to the tradition of how they look, feel & what they represent, would be more accepting of these decisions to make these “departure variants” if the iconic name & car became its own brand under the parent company while simultaneously keeping the a modern version of the original. I know I would 🤷🏽♂️. The blueprint of the 911 has been the same since Pangea & yet it’s still in production today (with a manual transmission I might add 😍😮💨). But if Porsche decided to call the Cayenne “the 911 SUV” loyalist & enthusiasts alike would be like “WTF MATE” looking at Porsche like they just walked into a conference room without their steering wheel on their steering column.
PS if you’ve made it this far thanks. Here’s a trophy 🏆 & a cookie 🍪 lol
Although I appreciate what the C8 is, and I am sure it is a blast to drive, it just does not move me, it has too many angles. It's an Italian wana be with some angular Japanese influence. When I think Corvette I think curves. There's already some splits, as you pointed out some shops won't work on anything after 82 (I see this type of demarcation in shops that work on Jaguars and Land Rovers as well) in my case I love the C5, love the lines, curves, the pop up headlights... the C6 has always struck me as stubby, un finished. Now if I could take a C7, keep the nice interior and tech and reskin it as a C5......... That's a love child I'd gladly spend money on.
Meanwhile, I truly adore my C5 base coup..... I have a Jaguar that will run away and hide from it.. oh well, don't care and I will grab the C5 keys first almost every time. However, my next toy shall be an early FRC C5 to build and super charge so I can go C8 hunting. So if anyone knows of a well priced FRC C5 for sale (as in non Z06 FRC) reach out to me.
The C8 is nothing but a BIG computer on wheels. Can you imagine the front lift working still in 15 yrs? The hoops to jump through just to change the Brake Fluid.
At one time Corvettes was the gearheads dream. Spending an afternoon doing normal maintanince. Even R&R a clutch, that ended when the C5 came out, pulling the rearend just to replace a clutch? Wow.
I've had 6 Vettes 61,63,74,88,00,and a 19.
All great cars the C7, Z51 vert is definatly the best driving one. But it has too much computer crap that is gonna fail sometime. I'm definatly gonna sell it and look for a C3 69-72 that a normal person can repair.
I kept waiting to buy a Corvette until it came as a mid-engine. I kept hearing rumors it was going to happen, but it took way too long. In hindsight I should have bought a new C6 or C7 to drive until the C8 came out. Anyway, loving the C8. It is the best car ever that I have owned.
My son who is a millennial told me dad go by the last front engine 2019 ZR1. so I did. Same as you though I was waiting for the C8 but it took too long.
I have a 2015 stingray I've had for 8 years now. I have no desire for a c8
I LOVE my 2021 C8. I also feel it is the best overall car I have ever owned.
37yo here with a Euro 01' Millennium yellow manual C5 Coupe in Europe. Never liked the style of the c8 or anything else after the c5 came along after the popup HLs disappeared even though the c6 is a "better c5" car and very aggressive looks but never liked that and I see the C7 as a big GT cruiser machine like an Aston is, which i do like but I don't know if i see myself on one of those, maybe in 15years. the C4 has a lot of personality and really love it but reliability and spare parts kept me away from those.. C3 is beatiful, C2 is the most gorgeous Vette ever amd C1 is the first and original Corvette.
I also agree there is a split with the C8 and big part of the c8s sales are done by low end "influecers" and young kids after making money getting naked on OnlyFans. In my opinion, the c8 is like the Lambos buyers... Young money people who lacks of attention, personality and must show the others they have a lot of money now.
I am 65 years old, I have had 5 Corvettes and my newest is a 2020 C8. I traded in my 2014 C7 for the C8. I do believe there is a split in the Corvette culture, but....real Corvette people know that the mid-engine was a dream of Zora for Corvette, which was way ahead of his time. Corvette is trying to enter the supercar level, and the C8 was that car to break-through, so I believe that is the reason for the split. The Corvette is becoming a worldwide car and not just the all American sports car, another reason for the split.
Demographics aside, how many people complain that the C8 isn't a "real" Corvette have driven one? I mean REALLY driven one, pushing the performance levels either on a track or their local twisty "fun roads"? I'm thinking not very many, but there seems to be plenty of Keyboard Kommandos that have never even sat in a C8 let alone get behind the wheel for a couple of hours.
No front engine? Boo Hoo. No manual transmission? Boo Hoo. I heard the same type of complaining when the C7 didn't have round taillights. There's only so far you can go performance wise with a front engine RWD car and the C7 ZO6 was it (notably the C6 ZO6 and ZR-1 as well). The C8 is the platform Zora himself wanted for so long and it's finally here. I believe he'd be very proud of it.
I owned a '94 coupe for 12 years, a C6 GS 'vert and at one point had two C7's, a coupe and convertible and loved owning/driving them all. I now have a C8 HTC as well as the C7 Z51 convertible and love them both equally for different reasons. I know design aspects are subjective, but when I see them both in the garage I appreciate what each one has to offer, the joy and satisfaction each one gives me on the open road.
As for the C8 being an "American Ferrari" or a European wannabe, what would those critics have done with the C7? Minor changes and wheel offerings for the next 10 years? Oh boy! That'll insure increased sales! Many think the '63-'67 cars were some of the most beautiful cars ever put on the road (and I'm one of them) and they were a vast departure from the early C2's, so why didn't GM stay with that body design for 15-20 years? Nobody wants the same old cookie cutter design for very long (Porche 911 being the only exception I can think of) so design changes are inevitable in any automotive product line that wants to survive. Don't like how the C8 looks? Don't buy one. There's plenty of people still lining up to get one.
For me, the car has to look great when parked (curb appeal) and also be fun to drive. With that in mind, I love the C6s and C7s. I bought a C6 coupe last year and am nearly 49 years old. I don't like the C8 simply because the styling doesn't appeal to me enough, and especially in comparison to other cars in its price range (base 911s and Audi R8s). So it isn't the fidelity to historical design that bothers me - it is the styling.
I have a 2023 C8 convertible. I’ve also had a 1966. A 2000 and a 2006…all convertibles. The 2023 is awesome. What do I miss? A standard shift!. I felt I was more in tune with car with a 6 speed standard shift. According to Corvette, in 2019 only 14% were standard shifts, hence the change to eliminate it. Too bad!
I have had 3 Corvettes. A C2 '66 427, 4 speed, a C3 '78 L48 auto, and a '79 C3, L82 4 speed. My favorite was the '79. Ordered it new all the options. Yes, I'm old, 72, but the '79 is my favorite.
I own an 82 t-top , 96 coupe and 2003 convertible. Three different generations. I lost interest in Corvettes with the C6's exposed headlights - really ugly in my opinion. The C8 has to be the ugliest car named Corvette ever. Looks terrible from every angle. Plus the Corvette is no longer available to regular guys who can get a Corvette without being rich. I'm 75 and loving the looks of my 3. Your hypothesis seems quite accurate. I was wondering who could afford them. The only real Corvettes are front engine - rear drive. They should stick with building (beautiful) sports cars - not race cars for the road.
It's all coming together just the way GM planned it. Look at the price, the Vette is no longer the "all American sports car" that the working man can afford. I have never seen a C8 owner return a wave while I'm driving my C4. The C7 owners are the ones who can really profit from the split as they are getting top dollar for their cars, God bless. I waited a long time to get my used 89' and now 12 years later I can afford a C7 or C8 I am one of those older guys, 70, who has a hard time getting in and out of these cars. Great topic Lyle, rock on!
Not sure GM ever targeted Corvettes to the working man. My 86 convertible’s MSRP was over $35K, which equates to over $95,000 today. What has changed are depreciation/resale value. Bought my C4 with just over 13,000 miles in 1997 for $16,000, or about $30K today. That’s where the working man comes in. The C6 and up (and to lesser degree C5) have been depreciating much less, probably because they are functionally the end of the traditional automotive/Corvette era (even current C8s before the gradual transition to hybrid/electric). I’m just waiting and hoping for excellent condition low mile C4s to appreciate more. Irks me to no end to see IROCs and Mustang GTs be worth more than an equivalent condition C4.
@@nathanexplosion5478 very true , my 89' coupe is in excellent condition 77k miles and I would like to upgrade but I'm not giving it away for $5 or $6k.
Every C model change has brought controversy and often rejection. Over time the divide shrinks. But starting with the C4 and more so the C5-6-7 the model is attracting more diverse people and new buyers. The C8 really has amped that up more. The age had to come down with the car for it to survive. Also it had to change to remain competitive in racing.
Corvette owners are very diverse much like Harley buyers. Sone buy for the social aspects others performance sone for image. I am a life long Corvette fan and a recent buyer but I attended a local Corvette club meeting and they all were very different from me. I am in to to how to repair this or restore that. They are about the drive trip to dinner at the winery or participation in a parade to score points with the national club and raise money for charity. They are like Shriners with larger cars.
There is just not a typical Corvette owner and the group will get more diverse. It is not so much a split but a multi segmented enthusiast base.
Right now I see some freaking out because some new people don’t wave. It is the end of the world for some. But look it is what it is and not all bikers wave or Jeep people leave ducks.
The Corvette hobby is not larger than it ever has been and I expect it to blow up with the continued sales of 5-6-7 models to younger buyers.
They all need to be open minded and respectful.
Well said.
I'm glad you guys made back safely. You're right on point with the corvette market! Keep it coming
I think you've tapped on something. A significant number of C8 owners (not all) seem to have little interest or respect for previous generations of Corvette. Personally, I really like the C8, but my heart loves the C7 and C6 Vettes most, and I will always have a place for the C3. My uncle's C2 is the reason I fell in love with Vettes way back when, and I think of my uncle often when I look at my C7 GS.
As for a Corvette SUV ... ugh! I wish GM wouldn't dilute the heritage with a non-sports car Vette, but I strongly suspect that they will.
The C8 is impressive, and maybe if I had the money (I don't), I'd consider one, but I can definitely understand the "it's not a real Corvette" mindset. My first Corvette was a C5 that I recently sold to buy a '75 convertible. When the time comes in the future, I could see myself going to a C6 or maybe a C7, but I can't imagine buying a C8, even when the prices drop 10-15 years down the road. Maybe that'll change as time goes by, I dunno.
C7's cost just as much as a C8....
I always wanted a Corvette, but the C6 was the last one that appealed to me. The C4 ZR-1 was my favourite. Never warmed up to the C7 rear end, and the C8 IMO is just an unattractive design, in addition to the sacrifices in daily usability with a mid-engine platform. The C8 is just too over the top for me, I don't want a car that screams "look at me". Instead, I bought a 2018 Cadillac CTS-V, so I have all the power I could want, lots of luxury, and it totally blends in with traffic. Those who know what it is, notice. To everyone else, its just another four door sedan.
I’m 61 and had a 2014 C7 and loved that car. Long story short it developed torque tube bearing issues while out of warranty (And I’m about 1000 miles away from Sarasota FL 😆) I sold it meaning to buy a used C7 Z06 but the prices were such that for similar money I ordered a new C8 which I also love. If I was in a different price bracket, I would own both. I would say yes there is a split as one would expect.👍😎
No matter what year the corvette was, it always looked like a corvette and from miles away when you saw one, you new it was a corvette. I have owned a 79, a 90, a 91, and now a 2009 C6. All of them were Corvettes. The new C8, looks to much like a super car. IMO that's copycat logic. Nothing wrong with that, but at a distance, the average car guy even, will wonder is that a Ferrari, a McLaren, a Lamborghini, holy crap, it's a Vette! Sorry, I like when you drove a Vette and everyone knew what it was and American cars should look American IMO and we have given up to much of America to be like foreign country's. Not me, and my Vette should look like a Vette. To each his own for sure, but to me I like old school looks with new technology in comforts, engine and handling but it has got to look like you tell tell it is a Vette at a glance. You asked I answered. C5 and C6's will long be sought after I have a feeling.
Why didn’t they just make a mid-engine C7 lol. Why’d they have to make the C8 look like a Ferrari humping a space ship.
The C-8 front end in my opinion,and I've heard many many others say the same thing,is ugly.And a corvette SUV is ridiculous.
Love the video. I've owned a C4 and currently a C6...and I'm in my early 40s. Daily drive it, and absolutely love the car! I could only afford a base model C6 manual, but that's what I wanted. Prices are now inflated but still the C6 came in around the mid-$20k range. I'm blown away at the demographics you quoted about the C8...I do see younger folks in the C8s in my area. For me, it comes down to initial price and maintenance costs over the lifetime of the vehicle. The C4s through C6s are "affordable" in my opinion. C7s get into the $40-55k range...a tad on the high side of what some can afford. The C8s are insanely priced with all of the options and dealer markups.
We also have to recall the sports car for everyone was not always a perfect formula. Go back and look at how many times the Corvette was nearly cancelled and once was canceled with the C4 moving to the C5.
Once they went to the C5 things got better. Also by the C7 the front engine went as far as it could. How long till sales declined and the car died?
Today we have a car people are willing to wait a year for and paying top dollar. The health of the model is off the charts. Even the stingray price is comparable to past model prices if you include inflation in this era of Malibus going for over $40K.
Just as we have to change as we grow up so does the Corvette to remain relevant. There is no free pass for the Corvette though it is a iconic model.
I do oppose a Corvette SUV. It is just a money grab and a play on a name. I would not mess with 70 years of high name equity. Call it a Nomad tuned by Team Corvette. But not a Corvette.
Porsche needs volume as does Ferrari and that is why they need them. But the Porsche is not a 911 suv. Corvette is a model not a brand.
If they were to expand I would like the Stingray split off and made a front engine roadster that is more a touring car. Base it on a Camaro platform that is not going to be used.
For as long as I've known Corvette, I've been waiting for a mid-engined model. When the C8 was introduced I was underwhelmed by the styling, both inside and out. The looks just don't appeal to me. But I suspect I'm no longer GM's target customer. The looks obviously appeal to a whole new bunch of fans, as I believe they're on target to sell 50,000 of them this year. GM has moved on with the Corvette, as it should. The car has evolved to satisfy the market. I believe the market HAS split. It happens. Nothing wrong with that. The Corvette team did the right thing I guess. It's just that the Corvette no longer appeals to me styling-wise. It's a new era, and I'm not part of it. I'm a member of Generation X by the way.
Great video Lyle. Cheers!
fellow Gen Xer and I agree. We don’t hate the C8 it’s just not for us.
From a distance, can't tell a C8 from a Ford GT... both have a huge hole in the side of them...
I split on sports cars long ago... have a RWD 1975 MG Midget w/ V8... and a Mid Engine 1985 Fiero... guess the rest of the world has now caught up with me... LOL !!!
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The C6 was the last real Corvette for me. The C7 is too transformer looking and the C8 styling leaves much to be desired.
@@jays9211 I'm with you 100%.
@@Stinger430 looking to get a C4 ZR1 one of the best looking vettes ever
Chevy did an awesome job marketing the C8 to the non-traditional Corvette buyers, I'll stick with my C6 though.....a manual trans/real rag top/ & analog gauges are what a Corvette is to me
I have a 2013 Grand Sport anniversary edition and just two weeks ago took delivery of my C8 at the NCM. I love my C6 but I have to say the C8 is at another level. Even my wife can tell the difference just riding in the two. I'm not caught up in the split between front engine vs mid engine. I'm just enjoying both and appreciate the advancements 10 years brings. What a leap! By the way, I'm 64.
The split will really happen when those repair bills start to show up in 2025. Mid engine cars are a lot more expensive to repair, you can't fight physics.
It won't surprise me that a late model C7 might be worth more than an early C8. Time will tell.
On top of waiting for a car thats gotten expensive Corvette started catering to the younger buyer. I like chrome wheels,ill always like em & they dont sell em.
Well the C8 Corvettes are not worth 100,000 plus dollars. They look too much like the Ferrari. They do not look like a Corvette anymore and that's where they went wrong. I will never sell my C5 Corvette that's still the true Corvette they built a lot of new and old into it and I have the convertible. I don't know who these crazy people are that are spending $150,000 on a new Corvette but yeah you split the group of people that can afford to buy them now.
I have a C4 with a six speed. I would trade it for a C8 in a heartbeat if I had the money. Since I don't have the money I'm going to say the C8 is junk.
First off the 67 is the most beauriful Corvette ever built, then I would say 58-62 would be second, after that the C5-C6 looks great and is very attainable.
But Zora wanted the Corvette to be MID ENGINE and never really seen his dream come true other than some R&D in the 60’s
That being said, for 80k the C8 is absolutely a winner, its a SUPERCAR for C7 money, nothing compares to a C8, its a Marvel of engineering
It’s a high end sports car bud, Google it
Yes it has split. I would never be satisfied with any Vette than a C8. The others look so old and low tech in comparison.
Have a 2011 grand sport, not a fan of the c8 I like the c7 but not a fan of cylinder canceling I think c6 is the best ft engine vette out there
The C8 isn't a real convertible. I like the feel of the 360 view of my C7 convertabke.
definitely C8 is not a Corvette It is a European sports car wanna be for rich people. Not for us Corvette fans from way back
Your point about people having difficulty getting into and out of a c8. I belong to two corvette clubs with about 100 cars between the two. Most are c8’s. From my prospective most owners are 70 plus, no issue I’m 75. The difference is I hear how comfortable the c8 is or it’s great mileage. On the other hand I passed on the c8 and the c8 z06 and purchased a c6 z06 with 4k miles. I wanted the feeling of raw power and a corvette with great lines. The c6 now has close to 700 hp and I’m loving every moment.
There was a t-shirt that said it best! AFTER 1967, THEY STOP MAKING CORVETTES ❤😢
I was hoping that c7 price would plummet. 🙋♂️
Agree, but for somewhat different reasons. There are always people who have to have the newest, latest, greatest car, any car. And then there are those same types of people within the Corvette community. They like attention and tend to be a bit snobby. Some will move to other platforms when the next Hellcat or whatever comes out. Theyll sell their C8's to move. Then there are those who stay with Corvettes, but have to have the newest thing, C8, then 70th anniversary, then ZO6, etc. They'll trade in too. When the C9 comes out, many current C8 owners will move on & C8's will be folded more into the traditional Corvette buyers. Yes, C8's are a leap forward, but havent most gens done the same, each for different reasons? In 5-10 years the snobs will have sold their C8's and moved on and the Corvette faithful will more fully accept them as just another cool Vette.
C8s are okay, I prefer C1 through C7 people, far friendlier.
C8 corvettes, although are nice toys. They no longer have the soul of a Corvette.
I'll just keep driving my C5 and let you guys worry about this stuff. 😉
I can tell you my experience. I've owned 5 of them (2 C3s, 2C4s and a C6 Z06). I'm GenX, and I guess my previous ownership makes me a legacy customer. Was very interested in the C8 but the ridiculous markups kept me away, ended up buying a GT500 at a "reasonable" price instead, markup was minimal, less than what a C8 2LT would have been at the time. I also see way fewer of them.
Reminds me of the mid 90's when Harley Davidson ramped up production & a new breed of buyer came about. The hardcore guys called them RUB's (rich urban bikers) & for a few years there was a divide until folks realized the bikes were what everyone had in common.
Corvette has an identity crisis. C8 is too far IMO. C3s and C4s are terrible IMO. C5 and C6 only seem good in the “Corvette is an inexpensive, manual, front engine, raw sports car” context. Otherwise, we admit to a sheer lack of innovation in the powertrain, interior, braking/stopping (until later), and quality departments. Something bad happened between C7 and C8. Someone fighting the good fight at GM lost to the cash grabbing, trend exploiting, impatient*, and out of touch marketers. And now we have an identity crisis with a bad split in the market. Time will tell.. Lyle brings up a good point about the ~1982 fanboys but that’s not entirely what’s happening. Corvettes are inexpensive borderline super cars not cheap wannabe supercars(C8). That’s how I’d market it at least. If that’s how Earl envisioned it, being the “cutting edge euro-beater”, then C3-C7 did a terrible job in that context. Why build an already expensive car cheaply? Makes no sense. Shits at least 75k anyway. BMW, Audi, and Porsche prices.. who gives a turd about Corvette’s faster to 60 times? Just get a Honda or clapped out LS engine with a laptop and you’ll win every race if that’s what’s most important to you.
I’m young with a C5Z for reference.
I agree with 99% of what you wrote. The move to mid-engine layout was necessary to put more power to the ground without major compromises to either the traction system or the relocation of the engine behind the front axle. There is a reason that super cars are almost always laid out in the rear mounted mid-engine format. It is the most ideal balance of traction and handling ON A TRACK. Now, we can argue for days about whether it was necessary for a car that will (most likely) never set a tire on a raceway to be changed to mid-engine layout after 67 successful years, but to call that move impatient is incorrect. Zora Duntov wanted to do it back in the 60's but GM declined because it wasn't practical for their market at that time. I don't ask anyone to like a car that they don't care for, and I share your love of the C5Z, which will be remembered as one of the finest performance cars ever made in the USA. That said, I recommend that EVERY Corvette fan drive a C8 just once. You don't have to buy it, or even like it, but you will be shocked at just how nicely that car drives. I promise! :) Lyle
Vette suv? UAF imo. I’ll be loving my c6 gs for years to come
I'm losing interest in Corvettes as they so-called progress!
Another divide, no manual. Some people need a manual so c7 best option
I also believe the market has split. What I also sadly believe is the buyer has changed. During the C7 time into the C8, the buyers appear to be more fast car people than Corvette people. They know nothing of the history and heritage. They aren’t as much family. They just know it accelerates, turns, and stops better than anything for much less money.
I’m 47 and always looked at the Corvette as something I wasn’t into until I did some homework and really started to look at them. Now I’m in love with my C6 that will be my gateway to the C7.
Lyle, where are people getting the $$? I know salaries have gone up but so has everything else. I was 59 before I could afford a 12 year old Grand Sport. Don’t get me wrong, I love my GS but I couldn’t have afforded a C7 let alone a C8 and I make halfway decent money… at least I thought so. I know that Chevy will go where the $$ is but a Vette suv waters down the marque. As far as a split, yes I do think you have the diehards and the newer breed.
I think the higher income demographic that previously considered European cars are now purchasing the C8. That applies to me and some of my friends and associates.
If you noticed the C8 ownership getting younger it might be because most of them might be financed where as the older generation doesn't want to be in debt for anything any more . Just my thoughts !
I bought my 2019 2lt Grand Sport with 10.000 miles from a man ten years older than me who lived in Tennessee. His C7 was perfect and had everything I wanted. Long beach red metallic, kalahari interior, chrome rims, and a 2lt. I was just shy of 71. He had a 2020 C8 that was on his dealership's showroom floor with many people wanting to buy it.
I had it shipped out to Oregon in an enclosed trailer. When it emerged from the trailer it looked like it had gone through a complete detailing. So I fit the C7 buyer but this man and a woman in our Corvette club who is a year younger than me bought a 2020 C8 and kept her C5.
There are exceptions and I believe my examples are one. Also the dealer mark up and high prices on used C8's are pricing many retired people out of the market. They want a Corvette and are are opting for nice C5's.
I wouldn’t call it a split. Ide call it a renaissance. I own 2 c4 corvettes and i think all new models and layouts is about to help the brand and bring in more followers.
I think the market will hit rock bottom soon
I've noticed the same thing too split is definitely there!! and as far as a Corvette SUV is concerned I know there's a lot of people who definitely hate the idea but in the long run GM is a business and if they think they could take advantage of the market by producing a product they think will sell they' re probably going to go for it, I have a C5 and I wouldn't mind a C8 if I can fit in it I realize as you mentioned Lyle that there's a lot of people strongly believe that a Corvette should be front engine rear drive but in my personal opinion I believe Zora was right ,the Corvette should have been mid engine a long time ago but that's just me.
Although I am new to the corvette family I can see this happening with the platform change.