I am an older guy that was raised in the era of Classic Rock. Floyd Led Zeppelin BOC Bad Company Metallica The Scorpions Judas Priest etc... I have not really listened to much of Taylors music and what I have heard I don't hate or love. I have seen Taylor interviewed and read of her generosity so I have developed a positive view of her as a person. However, Taylor gave an interview where her critical thinking skills and down to earth mindset shone through. Her father was trying to down-play it due to security fears and she argued with him and restated her points. You got to see the pressures on her unfolding, but she stood her ground. I was sold. Were I her father and I am certainly old enough to be, I would be very proud of the woman she is whether or not she ever sang anything or achieved any fame.
I like her music well enough, but man, when she went after the guy who grabbed her during a radio station visit and her great big EFF-EWE to Scooter Braun, I'm sold.
@cf453 By what info are you stating that? Midnights sold over 3million Tools album has sold under 1 million. Are you talking about total album sales, like every album the artist has released?
I still think the reason people love Taylor Swift so much is that we crave someone to look up to. She always looks together even when coming out of a gym, she sits straight when being interviewed on the Tonight Show, she cautions fans to be nice, she works hard, and never seems arrogant no matter how successful she gets. We need a hero, someone to look up to, someone to aspire to be like, and right now that's Taylor Swift.
The thing is it's a persona she played for a long time. She wants people to see her as someone to admired. She is more of a perfectionist than most people know. She has a very powerful PR teams and her parents are very smart at helping her developed a marketing persona since she was starting out. Her mom was a marketing manager as a career before being a housewife. Even her former manager said her parents are marketing geniuses and was good at helping Taylor Swift fake it until she makes it. Taylor Swift has also been known to be very cautious about media portrayal of her and strategically used the media to highlight things just so many people overlooked any flaws she has. Even her ex-BF accused her at manipulating the media. One of it was her having an affair and being a boyfriend stealer and a cheater. Many fans overlook this because Taylor alway portrayed how people always done her wrong instead. Another one is her legal team tend to go after Etsy sellers for going after fan made merchandises even if it's vaguely relates to Taylor Swift. And her being the first ever music artist to trademark lyrics and preventing future artists using popular phrases that came before her. She has the most trademarks out of any other artist out their. As a business woman she is pretty ruthless. Even artists who used to idolize her and saw her as a hero realized it better to never get to know your hero. Even anyone who actually becomes her friend has to follow strict rules to be her in social group. I do believe she truly wants to be loved and wants to be seen as a nice person but at the same time she can be very vicious when she see someone as an enemy. She is also the type who see you as an enemy if you are friends with her enemies. A lot of people became her enemies just by association with who she doesn't like. She lost a lot of friends this way but she is also very protective of herself and would cut ties with people even her best friend of years. Why else she made a song about how everyone will betray her at the end even her future child. That kind of nihilism show what kind of person she is. Many people in her past that helped her somehow gets toss aside and had legal teams after them. She had fall out with her guitar teacher who helped recorded her first demo. He was telling his side of the story and she sent legal teams after him. She had fall outs with her first talent manager who helped her as a child and got her singing and modeling gigs for her and even did negotiation with her first record deal but her family fired the manager just to save 10% on commissions of her future success. Taylor Swift is a grey character she could do many nice things for fans and for her PR persona but she could also be extremely tough, hard and vicious. She isn't really genuine because even the persona she plays about her on school life was a marketing ploy for her to be relatable and perceived as an underdog. She was never an underdog but it's part of her branding.
you perfectly described a successful business owner. in that context she should be vicious in a capitalist system. if she lets her guards down shel'll get the second round of something looking like Kanye or Kim K treatment she got before. But she stays relevant and she does work on her music/videos to put something out. Most of the so called pop stars are just 1 single or 1 album hits. She has I don't know how many and managed to stay relevant. never the less I really don't care what kind of person she is in her private. She serves for the works she does and that says a lot about her caracter.@@CrimsonEclipse
@@gondolin12 well I do believe she is a business woman first for most. I don't deny that. Based on her parents they raised her with business in mind. I just found it funny many people's main reason for liking her isn't even her talents but that they believe the fake persona she portrays in the public eye. They believe she could literally be their best friend due to her marketable relatability. Like most celebrities are not your friend they don't have the time to get to know you and most fans interactions with them is one sided. It's one thing to just appreciate their music and talents it's another thing to be possessive over them like how they everything to you. People should just have your type of mindset. Take them as someone selling you a product. Who cares who they are in real life. What's annoying is the blind portrayal of their idols can do no wrong and is always right and how they will fight battles for the idols even if the idols don't even care about them in real life. Even if their idol was at fault to begin with. The thing I do admire about Taylor Swift is her business tactics and marketing strategies. She is obviously a genius at it. She knows how to play with people's emotions and is very smart a using the media to her advantage. She also has so many ways of protecting her Public Image and media portrayal of her through lawsuits and trademarks. Got to give credit where it is due. She is definitely a high tier businesswoman.
I think it's even simpler than that. In an era of undeserved and cheap fame (Kardashians, reality shows), and where horrible people and wrong-doers are rewarded (Trump, assorted tech-bro billionaires) - Taylor Swift reminds us that talent and hard work still matter. There was a point (2016-19) when a whole bunch of bullies and misogynists were trying to take her down, so to see her persist being nice, producing album after album (including two in lockdown!) and be on top of the world now... It's a reminder that sometimes good people DO triumph.
I am 70 years old & I am a huge fan! I have appreciated her lyrics for years, but now I also love her business sense & her generosity. I’m not on any of her online formats & haven’t had the money to go to her concerts but I will be at opening nite of her movie!!!
Her concert is like a session at wizard quest. She delivers a quality product in addition to giving you an exceptional experience with hidden meanings, cryptic messages, stunning visuals, secrets, riddles, gossip. The experience of Taylor is not only beautiful music…it feels like adult hidden pictures or like going to a murder mystery dinner. The more devoted the fan the better you become at the game. Solving her mysteries. And a swiftly is born.
I like to watch your videos sometimes and now I am really happy (but also not surprised, cause you have good common sense) that you like Taylor as well :)
Taylor Swift's online presence is the key component, connecting with her fandom, knowing that her fans matter in what she does, how she thinks, and how she says what she says.
She is a director. That's what she is at the core. Storytelling, that is a director job. Easter eggs. Videoclips. Aesthetics. Fast forwarding from now, we will see Taylor making it to become a household name as a director. Read my words.
Taylor Swift was on my periphery for many years. I listened to one or two of her songs when she was primarily a country artist and it wasn't really my speed. But 1989 was what made me a fan of her music. Great pop album and her vocals had vastly improved. What I also respect about Taylor is how she treats her fans, from buying them pizza when they were waiting in line for a concert to showing up at a superfan's wedding reception with gifts to the album release parties at her houses. Then there is her advocacy for musicians' rights and being a true fan of other music genres.
I’m 72 and have lately been seeing her online. The most impressive was her inspirational speech at a college graduation. That’s when I feel in love with her. Such positive and inspiring speech. Hope and love ❤️ Articulate and thoughtful. I don’t know her but am proud of the person she’s become. She’s a light that shines for all ages.
Taylor Swift has for a long time just been in my periphery. I am older than most of Offline followers so for a long time, I wrote her off as young people's music and I often used her tunes to dance to for cardio. Then came Evermore and Folklore and I'm kinda hooked. I'll even admit to going back to listen closer to her earlier stuff. She is quite amazing, not always my first listen, but she's not at much in my periphery anymore. I do admire the way she has managed her career, never taking her eyes off the ball even though she is the creator with the vision behind all her music. She's a smart lady.
Evermore and Folklore are my absolute favorite albums of hers (I'm a few years older than her, so I'm in her demographic) and I've been listening to her since 2008. I consider myself to be on the outer fringes of her fandom mostly because her more uh, passionate fans are a bit too much like the boy band fans I was surrounded by in the 90s.
For me, it wasn't until 2019, when she did the Tiny Desk Concert. That's when I first heard "All Too Well" and I could not believe how great the song was; I was astonished, it was one of those, "Oh, she really IS one of the greats!"
I’m screaming at Nora bringing up MySpace Taylor! The way I VIVIDLY remember sitting in my freshman dorm room watching her MySpace vlogs (specifically the London vlog is ingrained into my brain haha) and legit thinking we could be besties. She’s always just been one of us even now as the biggest pop star & most famous person on the planet. The Taylor mist is real because she’s equal parts kind, sincere, and brilliant business woman.
Millennial Swiftie here (who also follows the Crooked content) to say that I think a big thing missing from the conversation about Taylor’s fandom online is the way the fans themselves are a perpetual engine for their own community. Fall down the rabbit hole of “Taylor Swift reaction” videos to watch self-professed “metalheads” or “music producers” (ie. people who ‘shouldn’t’ like TS) and watch the way thousands of Swifties watch and rewatch people consume Taylor Swift albums or concert footage for the first time. It is immensely satisfying to watch people see or hear what you’ve been feeling about an artist. And it’s particularly cathartic to hear it from the demographics who have *historically* dismissed Taylor Swift’s music and art. It’s also indescribably joyous to watch other fans experience songs (like the 10 minute version) for the first time and to see reflected on THEIR faces a shadow of what you think might have been on yours the first time. This is particularly true with certain infamous lines: “Give me back my girlhood” in Would’ve Could’ve Should’ve or “I get older but your lovers stay my age” in All Too Well (10 minute version). Scroll through the comments and notice how many fans are waiting to see a person on UA-cam HEAR those lines for the first time. When I tell you that watching other people react to music that feels so deeply personal to ME is profoundly comforting, I mean that the sense of shared culture/shared experience of the Eras tour is as much about fans connecting as it is about believing Taylor might see or acknowledge them.
This made me tear up. THIS IS EXACTLY IT. Every WORD is true. SO TRUE. I’m so glad I read this. My thoughts exactly. It’s so comforting and satisfying to watch other people’s reactions specially the ones that “shouldn’t” like TS and watch her lyrics rocks their world in real time. I LOVE IT.
So trueee. I was waiting for someone to open the topic about reaction videos, as well. I also believe this shared experience was because of the isolation brought by the pandemic. There’s just something comforting watching other people learn about why we love Taylor and her songs, especially them hearing her deep cuts not just her earworm pop singles.
I swear to god, my favorite thing on the internet is watching grown men fall in love with Taylor's songs and especially be blown away/moved by her words.. It is an absolutely wholesome and satisfying experience. 🥺💕
Taylor Swift has changed history in the best way on many levels while being a down right good human. I have much respect for her. Keep voting blue America 🧢
as an aging boomer (70) and unrepentant 'dead head' the feeling of community built on music and outlook seems to be evident in swift's catalog and fanbase .. i'll also say that i hear strains of joni mitchell jackson browne and dan fogelberg in regard to the personal relationships we navigate as we move through our own 'eras' of life .. we can all get 'fahklempt' to see our children having similar experiences with a songwriter from their generation too carrying on solid values ... give one hope
As a massive Deadhead and a massive Swiftie, I concur! Recently I see more of what I love about Joni Mitchell and Stevie Nicks in Taylor. She is just that good.
I like Taylor because she is very successful but she still care for others and I like that she gave her truck drivers a big bonus and when her father told her that the truck drivers were blowing their horn for their appreciation that she gave them a big bonus, and her father said she cried. To be so big a success and still care about her workers is real class of a very kind and caring person. A.K.A. Paul
Dudes literally went "fellas, is it no longer gay to like Taylor Swift?" when they realized she was like best friends with Ryan Reynolds and Blake Lively.
The reason why Taylor is diff. from others is like her core as a song writer who wrote her own music. By that she put her emotion and personal experience through her music and that's why she's been admired of so many because of it, her relatable experience that she put in music was like a retroactive that resonate for many like we've been experienced that too.
Loved this. Thanks you guys. I appreciated how you noted the way her concert is bringing people together. We could use a lot of that and it’s the most beautiful aspect of the phenomenon to me. I’m a 51 year old woman and shamelessly a long time Taylor Swift Fan. She seems to be genuine and kind and generous. Her music is crazy affecting and relatable and infectious. Listening to it/watching the music videos can have you laughing as she’s quite the comedian, crying bc she’s a phenomenal lyricists and captures the human emotional experience so well, and dancing bc of how fun and celebratory other songs are. Heck, her music is even healing. Folklore, and later Evermore, were more efficient at helping me move difficult emotions and process some of my life experiences than a year of therapy! Very curious about this movie you said she’s making. I wasn’t able to pull off making it to any of the concerts but already have tickets to the opening night of the Eras movie with my daughter. Cant wait!
When I was younger listening to Taylor Swift I liked it because I related to it. Now I feel like it's all about combing through her lyrics trying to find more lore and references. Seeing people talk about her character or what her lyrics mean is similar to how people would talk about a TV Show character, every album is like a new TV show season.
I think guys getting into Taylor Swift is kind of like the Tom Brady effect. She’s just so damned good it’s hit a point where she’s at GOAT status and it’s not even a matter of “you can’t deny it”, you just can’t IGNORE it anymore. Her talent has simply permeated to the point where it demands your attention.
Absolutely. That’s what happened to me. I didn’t care for Tim McGraw or Our Song, so for a while I thought that my love of Teardrops on My Guitar was a fluke. Then I heard her perform Love Story and Forever & Always on SNL and I realized I might have been wrong. So I bought Fearless and loved every single track. I’m glad I adopted a lot earlier than some guys did but when I heard Fearless I definitely recognized that she had a level of talent I had not expected and really couldn’t deny her ability to convey some of the most heartfelt and personal music I’ve ever heard.
Wouldn't it be amazing if Taylor Swift wanted to raise some political awareness once again and rallied all her Swifties to get politically active (and at a minimum encouraged them to ensure they vote)? I think Taylor could have an enormous influence in getting out the vote if that was something she was interested in.
She did in the 2022 Tennessee midterms. I think she follows the Michael Jordan school of thought where they stay out of politics to maximize audience size and profitability.
Did you listen to this episode? They do mention/discuss her post re:voting early in Tennessee & encouraging fans to check registration, vote… that was literally only a few weeks ago lol
I think she will and it could REALLY have an impact. Taylor is a kind and loving person (as evidenced by the recent massive amounts of money she's given to her staff and many other charities). She knows that tfg is the opposite of kind and loving...(I don't think I need to elaborate).
Swifty since day dot with my daughter. I took her to her 1st tour when she was 8 and now we had to go into debt to get 4 vip tickets in Era. My daughter is now married and we take her hubby for the 1st time in 2024. He’s already a proud Swifty.
Wat people dont get is that Taylor Swift is an optical illusion. Shes that rare person who has substance and depth as well as glitter and acessive charm. Imo thats really whats responsible for the hype. And Because shes good at songwriting, alll her magic comes through that medium.
Dont forget that she saw a fan made video to bejeweled and the guy came up with a dance,, she reached out to the fan and asked him if she could use the dance moves on tour and he said yes she gave him tickets to the show of his choice
Thank you Jon and Max for talking about Forget Me Knit at the end of this episode! Excited to see you using it on your offline journey and love that your share in our vision to think outside the phone. 🥰❤
Finding this today after LA’s 1989TV announcement, the surprise songs (woot woot to New Romantics and I Know Places), and announcement of second leg of US is kind of funny. I am like Nora - I was a fan since her singles first came out in 2006 before her debut CD, then finally seeing the debut CD come out. Taylor Swift was the only artist where I would pre-order her albums (and then buy the Apple Deluxe editions that always came out a week later). And it’s been that way since Fearless. But I also kept it pretty quiet. Red was also when I went down the rabbit hole of Swift-lore. I spent hours (6+ hours) trying to register for Verified Fan status on TM on Nov. 1 (and that should have been my clue about how TM would melt down during the actual sale). I was able to buy a ticket for her show but I still kept it mostly quiet because most people I know aren’t fans. But now, so many people have become fans and I love it. She whispers, she doesn’t shout, and somehow the whispering is more deafening.
there's misogyny or shame in this for men to fully appreciate the talent Swift has. Everyone would argue but history already had Swift as one of world's most skillful storyteller songwriter.
As an og Swiftie, aka swiftie since 2006, I'm always a little nervous to watch people discuss her bc there's so much misinformation out there, but oh boy is this an important conversation to have, and if anyone's gonna do quality research on it, it's gonna be the CM team. It's also absolutely wild that we've gone from liking Taylor being considered an "embarrassing girl thing" to it being like the norm.
I think a lot of people / musicians diss her because she barely evolves beyond standard chord progressions (the classics), and that's a fair point - but it seems she doesn't care for that, her main focuses are melody, lyrics and storytelling, which she excels at. Her ability to convert negativity (whether it's heartbreaking splits, gossip or negative publicity) into bonafide hits is staggering. She keeps trying new things and delving into new genres, not unlike what The Beatles did in the 60s (but she's only one person that came from country and transitioned into pop, that's quite the disposition). She keeps surrounding herself with talented people, and elevates artists she loves, even when they're not as popular as her (but who is?) She works fucking hard, re-recording the albums whilst on tour (check out the lists of studios where the re-recordings were recorded at, it's huge), been releasing an album on average every 3-4 years (and even that frequency got more intense the past couple of years) I currently don't enjoy her directing endeavors (and her talk with Martin McDonagh was a bit shallow and disappointing) but I'm sure given enough time and her tenacity, she can conquer that hill as well. She truly enjoys art - whether it's music or television or film, and it shows, and that's something that seems rare amongst huge popstars. She's becoming more and more undeniable and I'm here for it. Myself - I was very skeptical of her talent and deemed her shallow and repetitive - before my ex-girlfriend got me into her music and catalog, and I was surprised to find how versatile and talented she was at painting vivid pictures using her music & lyrics. Only problem I have with her is the way she currently chooses to perform - doing a Beyonce-like pop show that's almost identical every night (aside for a couple of surprise song, which is very welcome and amazing) that's choregraphed and planned to the t. Soon enough she'll go on a solo tour where she'll be able to change the setlist every night, and shine a brighter light on her lyrics and songwriting craft rather than the pazzaz and fireworks of her current tour. Reminds me of Nirvana Unplugged and how it showed how talented of a songwriter Kurt Cobain was. Once that happens, I'll be there, front row. Go Taylor
This isn’t a dis on what you wrote, I just was laughing because when you wrote about musicians dissing her standard chord progressions all I could think about was how many aspiring elitist musicians I’ve known that are sooo far up their own ass. lol
@@fatesrequiemlol I love this observation. Johnny Cash became an American icon making witty, catchy, heartfelt and socially deep songs while playing literally 3 chords on his guitar. Anyone who thinks that the purpose of music is melodic complexity has REALLY missed the point
Taylor Swift is the ultimate manifestation of a quote by the great actor from Hollywood’s golden era, Jimmy Stewart. When asked about what it takes to be a great actor Stewart replied: “Acting is all about sincerity and once you learn how to fake that, you have it made.”
I'm 64 soon to be 65 and I think TS is extremely talented! The difference for her compared to other talented artists - IMO- is that she came from a loving home with 2 parents who loved her and a wonderful brother that made her realize she wasn't the ONLY focus! We would have a much different Taylor if she was an only child that got 100% of their attention so basically we owe her younger brother for everything! I just hope he's doing well on his own and being a part of her trajectory. I'm not a swiftie but can see why others are. Probably 99% of young people have had their hearts stomped on by someone they thought would never do such a thing. She has been able to put a common voice to that heartbreak and is very relatable. I put her in the same realm as PRINCE! 💜 He was an amazing writer and if he had lived I can only imagine what was still locked up in his artistic brain that we will never know!
Thank you, Nathan, for seeing that teenage girls are valid audiences and discerning forces for lasting music. You'll note a significant amount of teen idols from everyone's childhoods (Sinatra to Osmond to Biever) have had careers that last as well as bands geared to teenage boys. Females matter.
I've always enjoyed TS's music, better than most pop. I wasn't a close follower or a CD purchasing, concert going fan, but I enjoyed her music and videos. I recently revisited some videos of hers from years back and saw my comments which were in awe of her genius, talent, comedic abilities and song writing/video creating abilities even back then when I didn't follow her as a fan. Then recently due to all the news about this monster tour of hers, and because I like to learn about people in ANY field who are creating all their dreams come true, what is their mind like, their disciplines, habits, lifestyle, rituals, preparation methods, etc. I have learned so much about her from interviews, docs and seeing this AMAZING Era's show on youtube, that I have gained a whole new and deeper level of respect and admiration for her. I've always gravitated to more "singer's singers" such as Dimash, Park Hyo Shin, Dion, Bocelli, Groban, Brightman, Streisand, Houston....but I still have thru the years truly enjoyed Taylors very witty, smart, funny, cutting music and videos FAR more than that which was being produced by most pop stars....just at a much higher level now. And I would say she has elevated the concert experience to a whole new level of quality, detail and showmanship from just doing one song followed by applause "and now for my next song" format, to this huge machine of a performance; and I am in awe that she does this entire show with NO lyric monitors, and no water on the stage - how she does a show like this several nights in a row is really super human - and selling out 70/80K stadiums around the world!! Genius is extremely deserved in the case of Taylor Swift!! I have become, very very late to this party, a new TS SWIFTY fan and respectful admirer for sure!!
I have never listened to a Taylor Swift song all the way through, probably won't. But, I think she's smart, kind, and respectful of the power she has as a very connected person. I will say, I don't think I've ever loved a celebrity as much you three love her.
As a tail-end Boomer who describes the love songs of my youth as “wr*st-sl*tt*ng music” (because it was all about not wanting to survive being w/o the guy, not good enough for, etc), I’m thrilled my daughter grew up in the Girl Power/TS era. She has a *much* stronger sense of her worth than I ever did at her age (early 20s). to TS & these other fabulous artists!
New Swifty here and I'll tell you why it took me awhile to tune in. I have a 21 year daughter. In 2014 when Blank Space came out, she was 12. It wasn't the song I objected to it was mostly the video, which I found violent. Girls don't cut up their BF's clothes, slash their portraits, take a putter to their classic cars. Boys don't want torture and love is not a game. Now I get what's behind that song and why she wrote it. Hopefully, you get my point about how that video could influence a very young girl. I saw that and that was all it took to put me off of her. But now I realize why she wrote that song and what that it was about WHAT OTHER PEOPLE THOUGHT ABOUT HER... I too see her brilliance and I'm not going to let one awful video keep me from watching the rest. I think she's awesome but who can afford a ticket? Not me.
Mariah Carey has changed the game multiple times being a female who: Owns her catalogue, Vocal range, biracialism, leaving corrupt abusive mogul, most #1s, having rappers on pop songs, volume of albums in short amount of time, writing and producing her songs, making unplugged MTV concerts under popular, releasing a Xmas album early in her career, multiple sales records (streaming, diamond albums, total volume) etc
I only started listening to Taylor Swift over the past few months, in no small part because of how often the PSA team have talked about her music on the pod. Currently working my way through Taylor's Version of Speak Now. While I can't speak to the onlineness of Taylor or how she's cultivated her fanbase, I can say that she is deserving of a lot of the praise she gets. She's clearly worked hard to reach this level of skill and I can see where some of the hype comes from now. Edit: I should also add, when I first saw the thumbnail of this video, I very briefly thought Jon had somehow managed to book Taylor for Offline.
I'm telling you, I became a Swiftie since July 2023. My influence is rock alternative, but she so damn good especially her artistry and attitude. She has a nice team team, not her emplyees, again, her TEAM.
me as a straight male that's been a fan since tear drops... I didn't know I was an anomaly. I have vivid memories of my friends jamming to Red studying for our engineering tests. Maybe he means straight older dudes.
im a casual t-swift fan. i already though she was especially good at her job but really impressed after that discussion. im more into her pop songs but now i want to try evermore and folklore after this. maybe she'll watch this and you can do an episode with her :D
I've been a fan for years. The first time I heard Folklore was when Disney put up the Long Pond Sessions. I was putting up my Christmas tree and found myself sitting on the floor against the wall mesmerized. I got Zero work done. Lol. That album was so different, amazing and unexpected. ❤
@@TonyRobetsonyou should and must listen Folklore Long Pond Session, its really capture her pure greatness. That Session change me to hardcore swifties (im longtime muse fans before and still) and makes me digging more of her works, now ive listen all of her catalogue and its catapulted start from that session lol
So I’m a metal head a heart, so I’m not that much of a fan of her music. That said, there is that something that even me as a casual observer just appreciate. I don’t view her as a diva. That at the end of the day you could just feel comfortable with her no matter who you are. I like that.
I think... she's reached her "I'm Bad" moment. And you know it. I think she has learned her business lessons. And it shows in her music. Just like MJ, she has made it a job. Hence, she shows less joy today. IOW, she grew up. Very few artists survive it.
She reminds me of Madonna when she changed the culture and industry in the 80s for women, and the LGBTQ community as well as more accepting of people who are different. Taylor is changing and moving the industry forward in her generation.💪🏽👏🏽👑😎❤️
As a Gen X woman, I could never relate to performers like Madonna, who relied very much on image, shock value and her sexuality to garner attention -- calling it "feminism", when, really, she only cared about herself and did nothing to lift up other women. I think Madonna's legacy has definitely diminished over time, and - let's face it - she has never been a particularly nice or charitable human being. I think Taylor is a better and more talented human!
I compare Taylor to Dolly as far as song writing. Dolly is a prolific, amazing song writer, most songs we have never heard. Taylor also has written a massive amount of songs. Voices are very different but amazing, smart women who love their fans and are genius business women.
For me it was that I finally went to enough therapy where I as a guy could publicly enjoy Taylor's music which in my mind is very feminine and off limits socially to me when I was growing up.
19:00 when being dragged online, she didn’t avoid the hurt but went further in to redeem herself That’s tough to do emotionally Most artists back off, and maybe even get someone to look at it from then on 29:33 being more vulnerable even after hatred
Exactly! She happens to be a brilliant songwriter with an unbelievable knack for melody. Absolute genius! I'm 60...been following her since her first album. How old was she...14?
The power of Taylor.....that the final question of new North American dates (with Nathan being skeptical) got immediately dated.....with new North American dates
These folks are so young. People have always been invested in the lives of stars. It isn’t a new thing or a social media thing. People have a different way to express themselves now.
Thank you! The only difference is the ease with which people can access stars today. There wasn't social media or the internet when the Beatles came to America, yet...
I think her video for “you need to calm down” was really powerful. Not so much political but personal- being kind to people - which she really stands for. Side note- I have been mispronouncing Bon Iver for years apparently 😂
The first time I heard her music, Blank Space, Lover, All Too Well.... I was so impressed. Again, I said, that was the first time I heard those music. Then, I begun searching who's the singer and it turned out she writes all her music. Every music has a story. I think Taylor would be a very good storytelling. And what's so funny about the story behind the Blank Space, she said it was just a joke 😊 That's the start of me being a Swiftie.❤❤❤
Just a note, Jon, to let you know that I just got a notice on my iPad that I averaged 24 hours, 9 minutes per day last week. I guess the fact that I listen to podcasts while playing games on another device is adding up. Also, I usually listen to NPR all night - it helps me sleep. truly!
I don't love or hate her music, but she seems like a top-notch person. She seems really down to earth, sweet, and honest. However, my problem with all this is we should never, no matter who it is, be worshipping anyone like this! She's obviously good at what she does, and again she seems like a nice person, but she's just a person. We can all look up to someone without idolising them. This extreme worship of someone is not healthy. Just my 2 cents worth. Lol.
Not a Swiftie, but totally understand why she has the committed fans like the ones hosting this podcast. She's transcended up from country sweetheart to become a larger than life, internationally renowned cultural figure... the Disney Princess who came to be. Ask any of them to try and imagine a world without Taylor in it , they'd tell you they wouldn't care to stick around for it.
But if you listen to Taylor Swift songs she's putting out so many and they all have a tune to them but in my opinion as a songwriter myself so many other music stars they're just hype because their songs have no real melodies in them so the fact that Taylor Swift is a Real great music composer a real songwriter is the kryptonite that gives her power to market all this
This whole discussion is about Taylor as a CEO, social media wiz, etc. Not to take anything away from her, but you’ve kind of blown over “her father called and called with critiques and suggestions”…let’s face it, it truly is a family business. Her father is in finance, her mother is a marketer, her brother is in acting and filmmaking, right? So she’s the front face of the business aspect, but it’s not her alone.
I became a fan when she was being attacked by the so called artists who thought they were better than her and wanted to use and abuse her for being better than them. Kanye West should be flogged for what he did to her and how he used his fame to make Taylor Swift out to be a bad person. Him and his wife are have a lot to answer for but Taylor Swift rose above them all and did not drag them down to prop herself up. Taylor remained true to herself and her music and her business and fans. Taylor is an icon naturally
And she just cut a 100K check to all of her ERA's Tour band, dancers, and crew before they break for a few weeks and move to the European segment of the tour!
I like lyrics, song writers, music 🎵🎵🎵🎶 to dance by. Some artists appeal to me. Right now it's Ed Sheeran who this jazz, blues, R and B, Nina Simone, Billy Holiday plays repeatedly. That said, I love Romeo, one of Taylor's early songs. I play it often. I may find her music danceable as she ages like very fine wine! Especially since she's described here as a top level sing writer. Go Taylor Swift!!! She's doing what she loves.
no one has made more bank off of their bitterness yet is marketed as wholesome. she is brilliantly calculating- announcing ever charity she donates to before performing there.
I think her creative team around her has created her almost mythic story and kept themselves totally invisible in doing so. Her ability to create loyalty is amazing and no single human can create this alone. I hope she steps out and matures in a way that truly gives back to our culture in a meaningful way. Will her fans grow with her is the question or will they just want the old Taylor?
She verified smart intellectuals who also happens to be a professional singer. Not a fan but I admire her business acumen and her personality in general.
I'd love to see you follow this up with a piece on K-Pop. Everything that you've discussed about Taylor Swift moves to the next level when you look at BTS, Blackpink, etc - the fan content is over the top (esp the stage mixes which are much more technical when the artists never stop moving). Borahae anyone?
IYKYK 💜 I’d love to see an episode this, too. Especially when you consider a group like BTS fills stadiums with NO support from radio. Speaking of, the Ticketmaster fiasco for TS’s tour generated feelings and conversation among pop music fans that K-pop fans have known for a while. I wonder, if Swifties and ARMY could leverage their buying power together, could they force changes in ticketing?
I listened to K-pop form 2019 how albums were sold were amazing; they would be like a hardcover book, full of photoshoot pictures, lyrics, photocards and then lyrics. There were also the light sticks which was such a great idea along with having kpop idols on variety TV and in dramas. I also remember watching M-countdown every week making several accounts to vote.😂 It was really amazing being a K-pop fan but it was kind of like an addiction.
Taylor is an amazing artist, storyteller & performer. But every woman out there can herself in Taylor's shoes with having dated an a**hole who mistreated her or played games etc. But also has aspirations for that beautiful romantic love like Love Story etc. That's why she connects with her fans. That's why they follow her avidly online.
I am an older guy that was raised in the era of Classic Rock. Floyd Led Zeppelin BOC Bad Company Metallica The Scorpions Judas Priest etc... I have not really listened to much of Taylors music and what I have heard I don't hate or love. I have seen Taylor interviewed and read of her generosity so I have developed a positive view of her as a person. However, Taylor gave an interview where her critical thinking skills and down to earth mindset shone through. Her father was trying to down-play it due to security fears and she argued with him and restated her points. You got to see the pressures on her unfolding, but she stood her ground. I was sold. Were I her father and I am certainly old enough to be, I would be very proud of the woman she is whether or not she ever sang anything or achieved any fame.
Thank you for acknowledging that other people have tastes which are not inherently inferior😅
I like her music well enough, but man, when she went after the guy who grabbed her during a radio station visit and her great big EFF-EWE to Scooter Braun, I'm sold.
@@kharris2393 Fear Innoculum outsold Tay Tay.
@@cf453 ok...
@cf453 By what info are you stating that? Midnights sold over 3million Tools album has sold under 1 million. Are you talking about total album sales, like every album the artist has released?
I still think the reason people love Taylor Swift so much is that we crave someone to look up to. She always looks together even when coming out of a gym, she sits straight when being interviewed on the Tonight Show, she cautions fans to be nice, she works hard, and never seems arrogant no matter how successful she gets. We need a hero, someone to look up to, someone to aspire to be like, and right now that's Taylor Swift.
The thing is it's a persona she played for a long time. She wants people to see her as someone to admired. She is more of a perfectionist than most people know. She has a very powerful PR teams and her parents are very smart at helping her developed a marketing persona since she was starting out. Her mom was a marketing manager as a career before being a housewife. Even her former manager said her parents are marketing geniuses and was good at helping Taylor Swift fake it until she makes it. Taylor Swift has also been known to be very cautious about media portrayal of her and strategically used the media to highlight things just so many people overlooked any flaws she has. Even her ex-BF accused her at manipulating the media.
One of it was her having an affair and being a boyfriend stealer and a cheater. Many fans overlook this because Taylor alway portrayed how people always done her wrong instead.
Another one is her legal team tend to go after Etsy sellers for going after fan made merchandises even if it's vaguely relates to Taylor Swift. And her being the first ever music artist to trademark lyrics and preventing future artists using popular phrases that came before her. She has the most trademarks out of any other artist out their. As a business woman she is pretty ruthless. Even artists who used to idolize her and saw her as a hero realized it better to never get to know your hero.
Even anyone who actually becomes her friend has to follow strict rules to be her in social group.
I do believe she truly wants to be loved and wants to be seen as a nice person but at the same time she can be very vicious when she see someone as an enemy. She is also the type who see you as an enemy if you are friends with her enemies. A lot of people became her enemies just by association with who she doesn't like. She lost a lot of friends this way but she is also very protective of herself and would cut ties with people even her best friend of years. Why else she made a song about how everyone will betray her at the end even her future child. That kind of nihilism show what kind of person she is.
Many people in her past that helped her somehow gets toss aside and had legal teams after them. She had fall out with her guitar teacher who helped recorded her first demo. He was telling his side of the story and she sent legal teams after him. She had fall outs with her first talent manager who helped her as a child and got her singing and modeling gigs for her and even did negotiation with her first record deal but her family fired the manager just to save 10% on commissions of her future success.
Taylor Swift is a grey character she could do many nice things for fans and for her PR persona but she could also be extremely tough, hard and vicious. She isn't really genuine because even the persona she plays about her on school life was a marketing ploy for her to be relatable and perceived as an underdog. She was never an underdog but it's part of her branding.
you perfectly described a successful business owner. in that context she should be vicious in a capitalist system. if she lets her guards down shel'll get the second round of something looking like Kanye or Kim K treatment she got before. But she stays relevant and she does work on her music/videos to put something out. Most of the so called pop stars are just 1 single or 1 album hits. She has I don't know how many and managed to stay relevant. never the less I really don't care what kind of person she is in her private. She serves for the works she does and that says a lot about her caracter.@@CrimsonEclipse
@@gondolin12 well I do believe she is a business woman first for most. I don't deny that. Based on her parents they raised her with business in mind. I just found it funny many people's main reason for liking her isn't even her talents but that they believe the fake persona she portrays in the public eye. They believe she could literally be their best friend due to her marketable relatability.
Like most celebrities are not your friend they don't have the time to get to know you and most fans interactions with them is one sided. It's one thing to just appreciate their music and talents it's another thing to be possessive over them like how they everything to you.
People should just have your type of mindset. Take them as someone selling you a product. Who cares who they are in real life. What's annoying is the blind portrayal of their idols can do no wrong and is always right and how they will fight battles for the idols even if the idols don't even care about them in real life. Even if their idol was at fault to begin with.
The thing I do admire about Taylor Swift is her business tactics and marketing strategies. She is obviously a genius at it. She knows how to play with people's emotions and is very smart a using the media to her advantage. She also has so many ways of protecting her Public Image and media portrayal of her through lawsuits and trademarks. Got to give credit where it is due. She is definitely a high tier businesswoman.
I think it's even simpler than that. In an era of undeserved and cheap fame (Kardashians, reality shows), and where horrible people and wrong-doers are rewarded (Trump, assorted tech-bro billionaires) - Taylor Swift reminds us that talent and hard work still matter. There was a point (2016-19) when a whole bunch of bullies and misogynists were trying to take her down, so to see her persist being nice, producing album after album (including two in lockdown!) and be on top of the world now... It's a reminder that sometimes good people DO triumph.
Taylor has GREAT flaws😂😂😂
I am 70 years old & I am a huge fan! I have appreciated her lyrics for years, but now I also love her business sense & her generosity. I’m not on any of her online formats & haven’t had the money to go to her concerts but I will be at opening nite of her movie!!!
Her concert is like a session at wizard quest. She delivers a quality product in addition to giving you an exceptional experience with hidden meanings, cryptic messages, stunning visuals, secrets, riddles, gossip. The experience of Taylor is not only beautiful music…it feels like adult hidden pictures or like going to a murder mystery dinner. The more devoted the fan the better you become at the game. Solving her mysteries. And a swiftly is born.
Loved this comment. 😊💕
PSA + T swift crossover. We deserved this. Thanks Jon
I like to watch your videos sometimes and now I am really happy (but also not surprised, cause you have good common sense) that you like Taylor as well :)
Taylor Swift's online presence is the key component, connecting with her fandom, knowing that her fans matter in what she does, how she thinks, and how she says what she says.
She is a director. That's what she is at the core. Storytelling, that is a director job. Easter eggs. Videoclips. Aesthetics. Fast forwarding from now, we will see Taylor making it to become a household name as a director. Read my words.
What she is at the core is a brilliant song writer!
Taylor Swift was on my periphery for many years. I listened to one or two of her songs when she was primarily a country artist and it wasn't really my speed. But 1989 was what made me a fan of her music. Great pop album and her vocals had vastly improved. What I also respect about Taylor is how she treats her fans, from buying them pizza when they were waiting in line for a concert to showing up at a superfan's wedding reception with gifts to the album release parties at her houses. Then there is her advocacy for musicians' rights and being a true fan of other music genres.
I’m 72 and have lately been seeing her online.
The most impressive was her inspirational speech at a college graduation.
That’s when I feel in love with her.
Such positive and inspiring speech.
Hope and love ❤️
Articulate and thoughtful.
I don’t know her but am proud of the person she’s become.
She’s a light that shines for all ages.
Taylor Swift has for a long time just been in my periphery. I am older than most of Offline followers so for a long time, I wrote her off as young people's music and I often used her tunes to dance to for cardio. Then came Evermore and Folklore and I'm kinda hooked. I'll even admit to going back to listen closer to her earlier stuff. She is quite amazing, not always my first listen, but she's not at much in my periphery anymore. I do admire the way she has managed her career, never taking her eyes off the ball even though she is the creator with the vision behind all her music. She's a smart lady.
Evermore and Folklore are my absolute favorite albums of hers (I'm a few years older than her, so I'm in her demographic) and I've been listening to her since 2008. I consider myself to be on the outer fringes of her fandom mostly because her more uh, passionate fans are a bit too much like the boy band fans I was surrounded by in the 90s.
For me, it wasn't until 2019, when she did the Tiny Desk Concert. That's when I first heard "All Too Well" and I could not believe how great the song was; I was astonished, it was one of those, "Oh, she really IS one of the greats!"
I’m screaming at Nora bringing up MySpace Taylor! The way I VIVIDLY remember sitting in my freshman dorm room watching her MySpace vlogs (specifically the London vlog is ingrained into my brain haha) and legit thinking we could be besties. She’s always just been one of us even now as the biggest pop star & most famous person on the planet. The Taylor mist is real because she’s equal parts kind, sincere, and brilliant business woman.
Millennial Swiftie here (who also follows the Crooked content) to say that I think a big thing missing from the conversation about Taylor’s fandom online is the way the fans themselves are a perpetual engine for their own community. Fall down the rabbit hole of “Taylor Swift reaction” videos to watch self-professed “metalheads” or “music producers” (ie. people who ‘shouldn’t’ like TS) and watch the way thousands of Swifties watch and rewatch people consume Taylor Swift albums or concert footage for the first time. It is immensely satisfying to watch people see or hear what you’ve been feeling about an artist. And it’s particularly cathartic to hear it from the demographics who have *historically* dismissed Taylor Swift’s music and art. It’s also indescribably joyous to watch other fans experience songs (like the 10 minute version) for the first time and to see reflected on THEIR faces a shadow of what you think might have been on yours the first time. This is particularly true with certain infamous lines: “Give me back my girlhood” in Would’ve Could’ve Should’ve or “I get older but your lovers stay my age” in All Too Well (10 minute version). Scroll through the comments and notice how many fans are waiting to see a person on UA-cam HEAR those lines for the first time. When I tell you that watching other people react to music that feels so deeply personal to ME is profoundly comforting, I mean that the sense of shared culture/shared experience of the Eras tour is as much about fans connecting as it is about believing Taylor might see or acknowledge them.
This made me tear up. THIS IS EXACTLY IT. Every WORD is true. SO TRUE. I’m so glad I read this. My thoughts exactly. It’s so comforting and satisfying to watch other people’s reactions specially the ones that “shouldn’t” like TS and watch her lyrics rocks their world in real time. I LOVE IT.
So trueee. I was waiting for someone to open the topic about reaction videos, as well. I also believe this shared experience was because of the isolation brought by the pandemic. There’s just something comforting watching other people learn about why we love Taylor and her songs, especially them hearing her deep cuts not just her earworm pop singles.
I swear to god, my favorite thing on the internet is watching grown men fall in love with Taylor's songs and especially be blown away/moved by her words.. It is an absolutely wholesome and satisfying experience. 🥺💕
OMG me too!!!! ❤❤❤
Taylor Swift has changed history in the best way on many levels while being a down right good human. I have much respect for her. Keep voting blue America 🧢
as an aging boomer (70) and unrepentant 'dead head' the feeling of community built on music and outlook seems to be evident in swift's catalog and fanbase .. i'll also say that i hear strains of joni mitchell jackson browne and dan fogelberg in regard to the personal relationships we navigate as we move through our own 'eras' of life .. we can all get 'fahklempt' to see our children having similar experiences with a songwriter from their generation too carrying on solid values ... give one hope
As a massive Deadhead and a massive Swiftie, I concur! Recently I see more of what I love about Joni Mitchell and Stevie Nicks in Taylor. She is just that good.
Swift here: she got us through the lockdowns by making two beautiful albums. No whiny, just got on with the job and her love for music.
I fell in love with TS when she was a teen singing Country Music. I love that she wants to deliver for the fans without giving herself away
I’ve become a fan of this bright talented woman. I’m very impressed with what she has accomplished. Go Taylor!
I like Taylor because she is very successful but she still care for others and I like that she gave her truck drivers a big bonus and when her father told her that the truck drivers were blowing their horn for their appreciation that she gave them a big bonus, and her father said she cried. To be so big a success and still care about her workers is real class of a very kind and caring person. A.K.A. Paul
Duh it's the poems she writes and puts to music so elegantly
Dudes literally went "fellas, is it no longer gay to like Taylor Swift?" when they realized she was like best friends with Ryan Reynolds and Blake Lively.
The reason why Taylor is diff. from others is like her core as a song writer who wrote her own music. By that she put her emotion and personal experience through her music and that's why she's been admired of so many because of it, her relatable experience that she put in music was like a retroactive that resonate for many like we've been experienced that too.
Loved this. Thanks you guys. I appreciated how you noted the way her concert is bringing people together. We could use a lot of that and it’s the most beautiful aspect of the phenomenon to me.
I’m a 51 year old woman and shamelessly a long time Taylor Swift Fan. She seems to be genuine and kind and generous. Her music is crazy affecting and relatable and infectious. Listening to it/watching the music videos can have you laughing as she’s quite the comedian, crying bc she’s a phenomenal lyricists and captures the human emotional experience so well, and dancing bc of how fun and celebratory other songs are.
Heck, her music is even healing. Folklore, and later Evermore, were more efficient at helping me move difficult emotions and process some of my life experiences than a year of therapy!
Very curious about this movie you said she’s making.
I wasn’t able to pull off making it to any of the concerts but already have tickets to the opening night of the Eras movie with my daughter. Cant wait!
When I was younger listening to Taylor Swift I liked it because I related to it. Now I feel like it's all about combing through her lyrics trying to find more lore and references. Seeing people talk about her character or what her lyrics mean is similar to how people would talk about a TV Show character, every album is like a new TV show season.
Ms Swift visiting kids with cancer, always impressed me so much
I think guys getting into Taylor Swift is kind of like the Tom Brady effect. She’s just so damned good it’s hit a point where she’s at GOAT status and it’s not even a matter of “you can’t deny it”, you just can’t IGNORE it anymore. Her talent has simply permeated to the point where it demands your attention.
Absolutely. That’s what happened to me. I didn’t care for Tim McGraw or Our Song, so for a while I thought that my love of Teardrops on My Guitar was a fluke.
Then I heard her perform Love Story and Forever & Always on SNL and I realized I might have been wrong. So I bought Fearless and loved every single track. I’m glad I adopted a lot earlier than some guys did but when I heard Fearless I definitely recognized that she had a level of talent I had not expected and really couldn’t deny her ability to convey some of the most heartfelt and personal music I’ve ever heard.
It's actually pretty easy if you don't live in the US. I'm younger than anyone in this panel and I can't name a single song of hers.
Just watched her in Denver. She's an incredible performer
GOAT status? Put her on stage with a Beyoncé or an Adele and it would be embarrassing for Taylor. Her fans are 99% white teen girls.
Please let her not go the way of Brady…
Wouldn't it be amazing if Taylor Swift wanted to raise some political awareness once again and rallied all her Swifties to get politically active (and at a minimum encouraged them to ensure they vote)? I think Taylor could have an enormous influence in getting out the vote if that was something she was interested in.
She did in the 2022 Tennessee midterms. I think she follows the Michael Jordan school of thought where they stay out of politics to maximize audience size and profitability.
Did you listen to this episode? They do mention/discuss her post re:voting early in Tennessee & encouraging fans to check registration, vote… that was literally only a few weeks ago lol
I think she will and it could REALLY have an impact. Taylor is a kind and loving person (as evidenced by the recent massive amounts of money she's given to her staff and many other charities). She knows that tfg is the opposite of kind and loving...(I don't think I need to elaborate).
ummm she did that
TS 2024!!!
and she's the only one winning AOTY in three different genres so, in a sense, she's unmatched
I became a swiftly with Shake it Off. She and Prince figured out how to take their brand back and change futures for artists in the future.
Swifty since day dot with my daughter. I took her to her 1st tour when she was 8 and now we had to go into debt to get 4 vip tickets in Era. My daughter is now married and we take her hubby for the 1st time in 2024. He’s already a proud Swifty.
Wat people dont get is that Taylor Swift is an optical illusion. Shes that rare person who has substance and depth as well as glitter and acessive charm. Imo thats really whats responsible for the hype. And Because shes good at songwriting, alll her magic comes through that medium.
Dont forget that she saw a fan made video to bejeweled and the guy came up with a dance,, she reached out to the fan and asked him if she could use the dance moves on tour and he said yes she gave him tickets to the show of his choice
I am in love with the stories of people becoming swifties, this comment section is LIT!
OMG. That was so much fun. I cannot get enough nerding out over Ms Swift. This episode was my passions meeting, and it was fantastic.
Thank you Jon and Max for talking about Forget Me Knit at the end of this episode! Excited to see you using it on your offline journey and love that your share in our vision to think outside the phone. 🥰❤
"She just absolutely filets her ex-boyfriends in her early work" 👌🏻🤣
Finding this today after LA’s 1989TV announcement, the surprise songs (woot woot to New Romantics and I Know Places), and announcement of second leg of US is kind of funny. I am like Nora - I was a fan since her singles first came out in 2006 before her debut CD, then finally seeing the debut CD come out. Taylor Swift was the only artist where I would pre-order her albums (and then buy the Apple Deluxe editions that always came out a week later). And it’s been that way since Fearless. But I also kept it pretty quiet. Red was also when I went down the rabbit hole of Swift-lore. I spent hours (6+ hours) trying to register for Verified Fan status on TM on Nov. 1 (and that should have been my clue about how TM would melt down during the actual sale). I was able to buy a ticket for her show but I still kept it mostly quiet because most people I know aren’t fans. But now, so many people have become fans and I love it. She whispers, she doesn’t shout, and somehow the whispering is more deafening.
there's misogyny or shame in this for men to fully appreciate the talent Swift has. Everyone would argue but history already had Swift as one of world's most skillful storyteller songwriter.
This is my favourite Online so far. Thank you Jon, great work, thoroughly enjoyable.
Man it's crushing the BEE hive That Taylor is the current Queen.
As an og Swiftie, aka swiftie since 2006, I'm always a little nervous to watch people discuss her bc there's so much misinformation out there, but oh boy is this an important conversation to have, and if anyone's gonna do quality research on it, it's gonna be the CM team. It's also absolutely wild that we've gone from liking Taylor being considered an "embarrassing girl thing" to it being like the norm.
Hey, yall. I love your show! Please post a pod with suggestions for turning Texas blue. It's wild down here in Harris County.
I think a lot of people / musicians diss her because she barely evolves beyond standard chord progressions (the classics), and that's a fair point - but it seems she doesn't care for that, her main focuses are melody, lyrics and storytelling, which she excels at. Her ability to convert negativity (whether it's heartbreaking splits, gossip or negative publicity) into bonafide hits is staggering. She keeps trying new things and delving into new genres, not unlike what The Beatles did in the 60s (but she's only one person that came from country and transitioned into pop, that's quite the disposition).
She keeps surrounding herself with talented people, and elevates artists she loves, even when they're not as popular as her (but who is?)
She works fucking hard, re-recording the albums whilst on tour (check out the lists of studios where the re-recordings were recorded at, it's huge), been releasing an album on average every 3-4 years (and even that frequency got more intense the past couple of years)
I currently don't enjoy her directing endeavors (and her talk with Martin McDonagh was a bit shallow and disappointing) but I'm sure given enough time and her tenacity, she can conquer that hill as well. She truly enjoys art - whether it's music or television or film, and it shows, and that's something that seems rare amongst huge popstars.
She's becoming more and more undeniable and I'm here for it. Myself - I was very skeptical of her talent and deemed her shallow and repetitive - before my ex-girlfriend got me into her music and catalog, and I was surprised to find how versatile and talented she was at painting vivid pictures using her music & lyrics.
Only problem I have with her is the way she currently chooses to perform - doing a Beyonce-like pop show that's almost identical every night (aside for a couple of surprise song, which is very welcome and amazing) that's choregraphed and planned to the t.
Soon enough she'll go on a solo tour where she'll be able to change the setlist every night, and shine a brighter light on her lyrics and songwriting craft rather than the pazzaz and fireworks of her current tour. Reminds me of Nirvana Unplugged and how it showed how talented of a songwriter Kurt Cobain was.
Once that happens, I'll be there, front row.
Go Taylor
This isn’t a dis on what you wrote, I just was laughing because when you wrote about musicians dissing her standard chord progressions all I could think about was how many aspiring elitist musicians I’ve known that are sooo far up their own ass. lol
@@fatesrequiem totally, prog rockers everywhere lamenting why their obscure Dream Theater adjacent bands don't get the same numbers
@@fatesrequiemlol I love this observation. Johnny Cash became an American icon making witty, catchy, heartfelt and socially deep songs while playing literally 3 chords on his guitar. Anyone who thinks that the purpose of music is melodic complexity has REALLY missed the point
Taylor main Focus is Melody and storytelling, her music is complex and accesible at the same time It is kinda like Shakespeare
Bono & U2 [and more] lived on 4 chord songs for years. I consider this not a fair critique.
Taylor Swift is the ultimate manifestation of a quote by the great actor from Hollywood’s golden era, Jimmy Stewart. When asked about what it takes to be a great actor Stewart replied: “Acting is all about sincerity and once you learn how to fake that, you have it made.”
I'm 64 soon to be 65 and I think TS is extremely talented! The difference for her compared to other talented artists - IMO- is that she came from a loving home with 2 parents who loved her and a wonderful brother that made her realize she wasn't the ONLY focus! We would have a much different Taylor if she was an only child that got 100% of their attention so basically we owe her younger brother for everything! I just hope he's doing well on his own and being a part of her trajectory.
I'm not a swiftie but can see why others are. Probably 99% of young people have had their hearts stomped on by someone they thought would never do such a thing. She has been able to put a common voice to that heartbreak and is very relatable.
I put her in the same realm as PRINCE! 💜 He was an amazing writer and if he had lived I can only imagine what was still locked up in his artistic brain that we will never know!
Best show ever. Taylor Swift brings people with good taste together.
Thank you, Nathan, for seeing that teenage girls are valid audiences and discerning forces for lasting music. You'll note a significant amount of teen idols from everyone's childhoods (Sinatra to Osmond to Biever) have had careers that last as well as bands geared to teenage boys. Females matter.
I've always enjoyed TS's music, better than most pop. I wasn't a close follower or a CD purchasing, concert going fan, but I enjoyed her music and videos. I recently revisited some videos of hers from years back and saw my comments which were in awe of her genius, talent, comedic abilities and song writing/video creating abilities even back then when I didn't follow her as a fan. Then recently due to all the news about this monster tour of hers, and because I like to learn about people in ANY field who are creating all their dreams come true, what is their mind like, their disciplines, habits, lifestyle, rituals, preparation methods, etc. I have learned so much about her from interviews, docs and seeing this AMAZING Era's show on youtube, that I have gained a whole new and deeper level of respect and admiration for her. I've always gravitated to more "singer's singers" such as Dimash, Park Hyo Shin, Dion, Bocelli, Groban, Brightman, Streisand, Houston....but I still have thru the years truly enjoyed Taylors very witty, smart, funny, cutting music and videos FAR more than that which was being produced by most pop stars....just at a much higher level now. And I would say she has elevated the concert experience to a whole new level of quality, detail and showmanship from just doing one song followed by applause "and now for my next song" format, to this huge machine of a performance; and I am in awe that she does this entire show with NO lyric monitors, and no water on the stage - how she does a show like this several nights in a row is really super human - and selling out 70/80K stadiums around the world!! Genius is extremely deserved in the case of Taylor Swift!! I have become, very very late to this party, a new TS SWIFTY fan and respectful admirer for sure!!
I have never listened to a Taylor Swift song all the way through, probably won't. But, I think she's smart, kind, and respectful of the power she has as a very connected person. I will say, I don't think I've ever loved a celebrity as much you three love her.
I think you should listen to her music. You can start with lover/folklore or midnights
what kind of flex is this? Songs are only 3-4 minutes long...
You should listen to her music! It’s amazing
she is amazing most of the music legends talking about her and praise her and compare her to legends
As a tail-end Boomer who describes the love songs of my youth as “wr*st-sl*tt*ng music” (because it was all about not wanting to survive being w/o the guy, not good enough for, etc), I’m thrilled my daughter grew up in the Girl Power/TS era. She has a *much* stronger sense of her worth than I ever did at her age (early 20s). to TS & these other fabulous artists!
There are great musicians that cannot relate on a one-to-one basis. I think that is what separates her.
New Swifty here and I'll tell you why it took me awhile to tune in. I have a 21 year daughter. In 2014 when Blank Space came out, she was 12. It wasn't the song I objected to it was mostly the video, which I found violent. Girls don't cut up their BF's clothes, slash their portraits, take a putter to their classic cars. Boys don't want torture and love is not a game.
Now I get what's behind that song and why she wrote it. Hopefully, you get my point about how that video could influence a very young girl. I saw that and that was all it took to put me off of her. But now I realize why she wrote that song and what that it was about WHAT OTHER PEOPLE THOUGHT ABOUT HER...
I too see her brilliance and I'm not going to let one awful video keep me from watching the rest. I think she's awesome but who can afford a ticket? Not me.
Mariah Carey has changed the game multiple times being a female who:
Owns her catalogue, Vocal range, biracialism, leaving corrupt abusive mogul, most #1s, having rappers on pop songs, volume of albums in short amount of time, writing and producing her songs, making unplugged MTV concerts under popular, releasing a Xmas album early in her career, multiple sales records (streaming, diamond albums, total volume) etc
I only started listening to Taylor Swift over the past few months, in no small part because of how often the PSA team have talked about her music on the pod. Currently working my way through Taylor's Version of Speak Now. While I can't speak to the onlineness of Taylor or how she's cultivated her fanbase, I can say that she is deserving of a lot of the praise she gets. She's clearly worked hard to reach this level of skill and I can see where some of the hype comes from now.
Edit: I should also add, when I first saw the thumbnail of this video, I very briefly thought Jon had somehow managed to book Taylor for Offline.
I'm telling you, I became a Swiftie since July 2023. My influence is rock alternative, but she so damn good especially her artistry and attitude. She has a nice team team, not her emplyees, again, her TEAM.
thanks for being a swiftie! and welcome to the awesomeness of it!
Youre welcome. I used to ignore her music, but now I feel like I have more knowledge about her than my friends and officemates.
me as a straight male that's been a fan since tear drops... I didn't know I was an anomaly. I have vivid memories of my friends jamming to Red studying for our engineering tests. Maybe he means straight older dudes.
It’s been my dream to see Taylor Swift live since I first heard her in 2006 :/ I was 15! Gosh I literally would faint if I met her
This is an awesome podcast, thank you so much. 67yo who loves everything Taylor Swift. She knows how great she is, and is still a damn good human 🥰
The X on the roof looks like something a villain from Gotham city would do when taking over 😂
im a casual t-swift fan. i already though she was especially good at her job but really impressed after that discussion. im more into her pop songs but now i want to try evermore and folklore after this. maybe she'll watch this and you can do an episode with her :D
I've been a fan for years. The first time I heard Folklore was when Disney put up the Long Pond Sessions. I was putting up my Christmas tree and found myself sitting on the floor against the wall mesmerized. I got Zero work done. Lol. That album was so different, amazing and unexpected. ❤
wow, really makes me want to give it a real chance.
@@TonyRobetsonyou should and must listen Folklore Long Pond Session, its really capture her pure greatness. That Session change me to hardcore swifties (im longtime muse fans before and still) and makes me digging more of her works, now ive listen all of her catalogue and its catapulted start from that session lol
So I’m a metal head a heart, so I’m not that much of a fan of her music. That said, there is that something that even me as a casual observer just appreciate. I don’t view her as a diva. That at the end of the day you could just feel comfortable with her no matter who you are. I like that.
All the while being very professional
Love this media crossover. Every single album is amazing
I think... she's reached her "I'm Bad" moment. And you know it. I think she has learned her business lessons. And it shows in her music. Just like MJ, she has made it a job. Hence, she shows less joy today. IOW, she grew up. Very few artists survive it.
Thanks for the podcast! It’s great! I struggle to not sing along to her in the gym but I cant manage
She reminds me of Madonna when she changed the culture and industry in the 80s for women, and the LGBTQ community as well as more accepting of people who are different. Taylor is changing and moving the industry forward in her generation.💪🏽👏🏽👑😎❤️
As a Gen X woman, I could never relate to performers like Madonna, who relied very much on image, shock value and her sexuality to garner attention -- calling it "feminism", when, really, she only cared about herself and did nothing to lift up other women. I think Madonna's legacy has definitely diminished over time, and - let's face it - she has never been a particularly nice or charitable human being. I think Taylor is a better and more talented human!
I compare Taylor to Dolly as far as song writing. Dolly is a prolific, amazing song writer, most songs we have never heard. Taylor also has written a massive amount of songs. Voices are very different but amazing, smart women who love their fans and are genius business women.
Never heard her music, but visually speaking, she pops.
Totally adorable.
For me it was that I finally went to enough therapy where I as a guy could publicly enjoy Taylor's music which in my mind is very feminine and off limits socially to me when I was growing up.
Not a fan of her music but fan of her personality and ideals
19:00 when being dragged online, she didn’t avoid the hurt but went further in to redeem herself
That’s tough to do emotionally
Most artists back off, and maybe even get someone to look at it from then on
29:33 being more vulnerable even after hatred
Exactly! She happens to be a brilliant songwriter with an unbelievable knack for melody. Absolute genius! I'm 60...been following her since her first album. How old was she...14?
The power of Taylor.....that the final question of new North American dates (with Nathan being skeptical) got immediately dated.....with new North American dates
Great episode Jon ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️
These folks are so young. People have always been invested in the lives of stars. It isn’t a new thing or a social media thing. People have a different way to express themselves now.
Thank you! The only difference is the ease with which people can access stars today. There wasn't social media or the internet when the Beatles came to America, yet...
There are many young people who love Taylor, however, there are many older people, like myself who admire her and like her music. I’m 70.
I think her video for “you need to calm down” was really powerful. Not so much political but personal- being kind to people - which she really stands for. Side note- I have been mispronouncing Bon Iver for years apparently 😂
Is there anything she has ever done in which she hasn't quickly become a master. She is just beginning
She Genuinely cares. I think it's as simple as that.
The first time I heard her music, Blank Space, Lover, All Too Well.... I was so impressed. Again, I said, that was the first time I heard those music. Then, I begun searching who's the singer and it turned out she writes all her music. Every music has a story. I think Taylor would be a very good storytelling. And what's so funny about the story behind the Blank Space, she said it was just a joke 😊 That's the start of me being a Swiftie.❤❤❤
Just a note, Jon, to let you know that I just got a notice on my iPad that I averaged 24 hours, 9 minutes per day last week. I guess the fact that I listen to podcasts while playing games on another device is adding up. Also, I usually listen to NPR all night - it helps me sleep. truly!
I was so happy she sang New Romantics 😭🥺
This was probably the funniest podcast I have ever seen 😂
Can someone ask the old CEO of Ticketmaster to do his dishes? 😂😂
I don't love or hate her music, but she seems like a top-notch person. She seems really down to earth, sweet, and honest. However, my problem with all this is we should never, no matter who it is, be worshipping anyone like this! She's obviously good at what she does, and again she seems like a nice person, but she's just a person. We can all look up to someone without idolising them. This extreme worship of someone is not healthy. Just my 2 cents worth. Lol.
Not a Swiftie, but totally understand why she has the committed fans like the ones hosting this podcast. She's transcended up from country sweetheart to become a larger than life, internationally renowned cultural figure... the Disney Princess who came to be.
Ask any of them to try and imagine a world without Taylor in it , they'd tell you they wouldn't care to stick around for it.
Kind of like the Beatles with TV. Love her!
But if you listen to Taylor Swift songs she's putting out so many and they all have a tune to them but in my opinion as a songwriter myself so many other music stars they're just hype because their songs have no real melodies in them so the fact that Taylor Swift is a Real great music composer a real songwriter is the kryptonite that gives her power to market all this
Thoroughly enjoyed the Twitter/X discussion!
This whole discussion is about Taylor as a CEO, social media wiz, etc. Not to take anything away from her, but you’ve kind of blown over “her father called and called with critiques and suggestions”…let’s face it, it truly is a family business. Her father is in finance, her mother is a marketer, her brother is in acting and filmmaking, right? So she’s the front face of the business aspect, but it’s not her alone.
I became a fan when she was being attacked by the so called artists who thought they were better than her and wanted to use and abuse her for being better than them. Kanye West should be flogged for what he did to her and how he used his fame to make Taylor Swift out to be a bad person. Him and his wife are have a lot to answer for but Taylor Swift rose above them all and did not drag them down to prop herself up. Taylor remained true to herself and her music and her business and fans. Taylor is an icon naturally
To me, Taylor is our modern day Shakespeare / Beethoven - we are privileged to live in these times
And she just cut a 100K check to all of her ERA's Tour band, dancers, and crew before they break for a few weeks and move to the European segment of the tour!
I like lyrics, song writers, music 🎵🎵🎵🎶 to dance by. Some artists appeal to me. Right now it's Ed Sheeran who this jazz, blues, R and B, Nina Simone, Billy Holiday plays repeatedly. That said, I love Romeo, one of Taylor's early songs. I play it often. I may find her music danceable as she ages like very fine wine! Especially since she's described here as a top level sing writer. Go Taylor Swift!!! She's doing what she loves.
no one has made more bank off of their bitterness yet is marketed as wholesome. she is brilliantly calculating- announcing ever charity she donates to before performing there.
I thoroughly enjoyed watching John allow himself to fan girl for an hour. Great episode x
I think her creative team around her has created her almost mythic story and kept themselves totally invisible in doing so. Her ability to create loyalty is amazing and no single human can create this alone. I hope she steps out and matures in a way that truly gives back to our culture in a meaningful way. Will her fans grow with her is the question or will they just want the old Taylor?
Red is my favorite Taylor Swift song. It’s one of the songs I listen to on repeat.
She verified smart intellectuals who also happens to be a professional singer. Not a fan but I admire her business acumen and her personality in general.
I'd love to see you follow this up with a piece on K-Pop. Everything that you've discussed about Taylor Swift moves to the next level when you look at BTS, Blackpink, etc - the fan content is over the top (esp the stage mixes which are much more technical when the artists never stop moving). Borahae anyone?
IYKYK 💜 I’d love to see an episode this, too. Especially when you consider a group like BTS fills stadiums with NO support from radio. Speaking of, the Ticketmaster fiasco for TS’s tour generated feelings and conversation among pop music fans that K-pop fans have known for a while. I wonder, if Swifties and ARMY could leverage their buying power together, could they force changes in ticketing?
I listened to K-pop form 2019 how albums were sold were amazing; they would be like a hardcover book, full of photoshoot pictures, lyrics, photocards and then lyrics. There were also the light sticks which was such a great idea along with having kpop idols on variety TV and in dramas. I also remember watching M-countdown every week making several accounts to vote.😂 It was really amazing being a K-pop fan but it was kind of like an addiction.
X is what we tap to shut things down
Taylor is an amazing artist, storyteller & performer. But every woman out there can herself in Taylor's shoes with having dated an a**hole who mistreated her or played games etc. But also has aspirations for that beautiful romantic love like Love Story etc. That's why she connects with her fans. That's why they follow her avidly online.