The cheap alternative to R-134a
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- Опубліковано 24 лип 2024
- Since the price for R134a and other similar refrigerants are shooting up in Europe I want to share my thoughts and experience on the cheap solution - LPG
Here you can find the vapor pressures for common refrigerants: www.deka-controls.com/kaeltemi...
A German article about the high prices: www.krafthand.de/artikel/prei... - Домашні улюбленці та дикі тварини
I understand from an Australian website that a mix of 79% r290 with 21% r600a is an ideal mix.
Great explanation. It worked just fine. I've learned a lot. My compressor has variable displacement. I don't have exact values, i will retest again. With 30-70 mix i got evaporator temperature to 2.7°C (with small variations), and i used 70% by weight initially from where i had to release a little bit several times... i will vacuum it again and try exactly 50% by weight of original 1234yf
Great summary! Thank you!
Nobody mentions that the little refills you get for r134a don’t actually contain r134a, they contain a “compatible gas mix”.
I looked into the data sheets & it’s basically propane (it’s listed as “hydrocarbon gas” with a boiling point extremely close to propane). That’s legal & sold on the internet.
one of the resons why i started doing my reaserch, scamming ppl in daylight
Thanks for posting this - very helpful
Thank you. Very helpful
First thank you for an informative video. I would like your oppinion on topping up ac sistem with 30/70 propane/buthane mix which allready has r134a in it? So basicly would it be theoreticly possible to mix r134a 750 grams with 50 grams of propane/ buthane? Lets say the system has a mechanical cluch.
Excellent video and tutorial.
In my case its Mercedes w220 cdi with same tipe compress as you c class.
So 30%r290 to 70 r600a is best ratio.
Can i please ask how do you measure evaporator temperature?
Only was for me to do it ,is
measuring went temperature ?
And what about oil compatibility,is r290/600a compatible with pag oil used by Mercedes?
Thank you and please reply if you can.
Great, that all makes sense but how do you refill system at the gas station? I mean, how do you pump LPG into the AC system. and how is the compressor lubricated?
Great vid
Forgot to ask
Are you using r600 butane or r600a isobutane?
Thank you
Hi. I emptied the system and refilled it again this time i used ~510grams of LPG (1000gr 1234yf) so roughly 50% by weight.
Something weird happened today... i can read temperature for both evaporator and condenser, condenser inlet temperature was roughly 105°C and evacuation temperature ~30°C. Evaporator temperature was fluctuating between 10-20°C. Outside were 25°C. System pressure 5-7 bar.
I used a mixed LPG and I'm not sure of percentages content anymore 🤔 . I also suspect my micro leak is still present. About 3 weeks since last refill and today my AC wasn't cold enough.
Thank you for the very interesting video! How do I know if my car has an on/off type compressor with the magnetic clutch, or the more modern variable type? If It has the old type, I gather it should be ok to just top up the ac with any source of lpg gas without much concern about the propane/butane ratio, but if it has the modern type compressor I should at least try to establish what ratio it is before using it...? Would I find the popane/butane ratio from a temperature/pressure chart if I just connect a pressure gauge to the lpg tank and make note of the tank pressure and ambient temperature?
You'll be able to hear the older type cycling on and off, they make a pretty loud clicking noise when the compressor engages
Just look at it... it's visible from outside, very clear when the engine is running/rotating
Nice video, thanks! Do you think it is a good idea to just refill a R134a - car ac with propane or LPG after gas loss?
Pure propane has a temperature of -10 °C for ~2.5bar, where r134a has 2°C for ~2.5bar. If you use only pure propane (R290) the evaporator will get into a block of ice. Find an LPG mix and use that maybe...
You must find and fix the leak. Don't fill up a system leaking. About 10% loss a year is normal i hear but if you gas leak don't refill it. Also gas loss can happen when system not used, o-rings will dry and micro losses will be everywhere.
Does that mixture R290, R600 work with the PAG 46 oil from the R134a? won't damage the compressor? Thanks
note no answer, this is something that I would like to know, did you find out?
Don’t do it it will damage it.
my 1991 GMC 1500 with a 5.7 v8 runs on propane and gasoline , I have always used propane to top off the A/C ,I just run a hose from the propane tank to the low side and fill to 38 pounds ,its been that way a long time . propane in Alberta Canada is 90 cents a liter , gas is over $ 8 dolor's a gallon
Das ist wirklich eine spannende Idee!
Wie ist die Kühlleistung mi dem 30/70-Gemisch?
Paul Alvarez Löblich Eine objektive Antwort habe ich darauf nicht, gefühlt macht es keinen Unterschied zu R134a. Soweit ich weiß ist die volumetische Kältleistung von Porpan höher, wie es mit dem Gemisch steht müsste man mal recherchieren. Allerdings hängt die Leistungsfähigkeit auch noch von vielen anderen Faktoren ab, gerade wenn man keinen Einfluss auf die Elektronik hat.
Hello. Thx for this information.
In your opinion the oil in the R134a system will work with the new R290 / R600 refrigerant, or is necesary to flush old oil, we need to replace the oil with a compatible one?
Thanks
This is something that I would like to know, did you find out?
If you're still interested. You can keep your oil. The oil is for the compressor. If the compressor is designed for PAG you have to use it.
Wie könnte man hypothetisch einen passenden Adapter bauen?
What temperatures are you getting out of the vents
Compared to using r134a
How did you make the tank adapter?
Welding, brazing, and soldering are not recommended.
Get an old BBQ grill take the tank adapter off the regulator then just a matter of fittins
Interesting solution.
Is charging a car system about the same than with r134a apart from self made adapters and couplings?
I red few product catalogs and allmost every ref.producer say that R290 or R600 or mix of these two is not a replacement for R134a system. I guess they are affraid of losing their business if people start converting their systems to these kind mixes.
AND what comes to safety, I think that using LPG or LNG as fuel is MILLION times more dangerous if you hit collision/accident..
Well apart from the couplings it’s the same, just keep in mind that the density is lower so you will need less by weight than with R134a.
I think the reason you don’t read about a mix in Industry is because there is no need to they just design the systems to R290 or R600a if required (but there are some other mixed refrigerants on the market like R407C for domestic aircons)
The maintenance of old existing units isn’t a big concern to them.
As I said safety is something everyone should evaluate for himself - I would prefer Propan over R1234yt in a new car since it doesn’t let off toxic fumes when burning.
Still I think the amount is pretty small compared to the gasoline/diesel/LPG/battery that is driving just car forward.
But if you don’t feel safe better keep you hands of this stuff since I think charging the system is the most dangerous part - some hose or coupling could fail and your standing right next to it.
@@theengineer134 hello. can i have your email? im interested in having an indepth conversation with you
Brazing gas cartouches (e.g. Rothenberger Topgas/Multigas) contain, according to their product safety sheet, 70% Butane(R600/106-97-8) and 30% Propane(R290/74-98-6)) -- seem to be an ideal solution? Anyone tried this?
Genau andersherum leider. 30% Propan, 70% Butan ! 😑
Am besten beides einzeln kaufen oder LPG benutzen. (Am besten Winter-mischung)
@@maxs351 Really? See: cdn.manomano.com/files/pdf/11146928.pdf
What worries me more is that they don't seem to care much what they fill into the cartouches, as long as it burns, the tolerances in the mixture are huge.
Nevertheless I used it, and had no problem, my AC works just fine.
Hi there,
I like your idea of using lpg as an alternative. I have a touareg which has lost its charge and I am considering using a 290/600a mix
But I have a question,
Did you flush the factory lube oil out of the system and replaced it with a different type of oil?
If so, how did you do that?
And if not, then why? - As far as I know, the typical lubricant for r134a systems is polyalkylene glycol (PAG) and is not recommended for hydro carbon systems, but mineral oil is.
Maybe alkylated benzene, polyalphaolefins and esters can work sufficient, I dont know...
Feel free to email me.
Best regards
Greg
Search for an 'A/C flush kit', shouldn't cost more than 60 USD. They make solvents specifically for A/C systems to put in them. Charge the can with compressed air, seal the rubber nozzles against the component for flushing and fire away. You'll want to replace the drier/accumulator as they hold a lot of oil in them.
Don't forget, these hydrocarbon refrigerants will not carry the newer types of refrigerant oils properly through the system, the oil will become trapped in the evaporator and the compressor will not be lubricated. An oil miscible in the refrigerant must always be used to enable it to travel through the system with the refrigerant.
You do realize that the reason they don't use propane is that it is flammable, right? If it leaks inside your cab and finds an ignition source, your car will explode.
You do realize R290 is used extensively in industry, right? A leak from a fuel line is far more dangerous than 10oz of propane. Also R1234YF, which is commonly used in modern cars, is flammable.
You do realise that a lot of the “off the shelf” DIY refill kits contain flammable hydrocarbon gas mixes, right?
It’s not a huge amount of gas, the smell is quite pungent & it’s well ventilated. Highly unlikely to cause any problems.