MY MOST CONTROVERSIAL VIDEO YET? IS SUPER STEEL PLAYED OUT?
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- Опубліковано 21 тра 2024
- MY MOST CONTROVERSIAL VIDEO YET? IS SUPER STEEL PLAYED OUT?- Well here we go... there will be a lot of folks in the knife community that will hate on me for this, BUT PLEASE HEAR ME OUT!!!
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100%, not just for folders but for big knives as well
Especially big knives
I think I missed something here. What was the drama, or controversy?
Maybe it‘s time for the community to take a closer look in general at high-toughness supersteels like CruWear, LC200N (yes!) and MagnaCut. Edge retention isn‘t the be-all and end-all 🤘
I’ll always love 440C , when done right, this is almost the perfect steel. 14C28N is my favorite. I just don’t believe in paying a mortgage for a (supposedly), better steel. I use to buy those fancy steels. But one day you wake up, asking yourself, how in the hell do some knives cost as much as firearms. It just gets ridiculous in my opinion,
Well make sure you tell UA-cam to notify you about this one when it is viewable so you can see if I agree ☝️
@@CrazySharp oh I’m definitely marking it and setting a alarm 😂 I gotta feeling, you probably see stuff how I see it.
How the hell could a firearm and a knife, cost the same to manufacture, in so many cases. I love blades, I’m not saying there worthless at all. But the price is just not even close to being worth it for just an upgraded steel. In my opinion. Everytime I get a good 440C blade, I always felt like it was a great steel for EDC. Everytime I get an expensive one, because of the supposedly better steel, I felt so taken advantage of. Yeah I stopped buying expensive knives. It’s just not worth it. I wish it was, but it’s so not.
Knife is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it , think too many people get caught up in the name of the steel instead of the quality of the steel like you said well done 440c is awesome but well done magnacut is even better but the trouble is whose doing it well is the tricky part.
@@CrazySharp ALMOST SHOWTIME!!!!!!
@Mridgwell Its not just flat better though, its only better in one respect. Murray Carter used to teach people how important it was to grind every bevel on a knife, not just the edge bevel. Doing that on something like Magnacut is an insane task, its even difficult on typical abrasives for simple steels like aus8. I think super high hardness and wear resistant steels are good for niche applications but general use blades (especially outdoor blades) should be in simple steels. Or, at the very least, a simple steel should be an option.
Im really liking Aeb-l it does everything I need it to do and its pretty corrosion proof since i live in the south
Wanted an aeb-l knife for a long time. I really like getting very keen edges on my blades
Looking forward to this one hope it’s an old school Mike video nothing held back
14c is pretty much the only steel I need.
Edge geometry has almost all but been forgotten by your average body.
yeah thats why i switched from supersteels as well. mid range knives gives me good edge retention AND i get to sharpen it more than once a year lol. i want a good balance between performance and user fun
I generally prefer something that is easy to maintain. Really high hardness, high wear resistance steels can be good niche applications but for general use stuff like aus8-a is just where its at.
3:35 someone FINALLY SAID IT! couldn't agree more! When im having to run a magnacut knife at 320 max it maintain aggression and totally suffer on push cutting performance.. a magnacut fangurl I am NOT. it's a very good steel and has its purpose but not in my pocket!
Supersteel is a super sheep game. It's about all the manufacturers have in their tool belt to keep things interesting and it works for the newer collectors. Then we start noticing trends. The best steel 5 years ago...gatekeepers will call outdated and no longer relative. Dude...everything is relative. Good steel is good steel...especially for people who use their knives strictly to open their package that contains their newest knife. I don't use mine nearly enough either, so in not judging but seriousky...if you have 52 knives...each knife needs to stay sharp for a week. A buck 420hc with a good edge last me a month between stropping. 14c28n is a fantastic knife steel too. 😎🤘 Great video Emler , Thanks.
To many people get caught up on the next best and to just sit it in the collection or on the shelf. A solid steel like vg10 , 154 and such is more than great for most users. Most don't understand that a good heat treatment and geometry will play a much greater part in the quality and experience. I look for guys who mainly use just one or two steels and does the heat treat themselves. They tend master them.
Happier with my 154cm than my s90v user knives
The fix blade knives in supersteel are even worse. Keep em stroped people.
I don't mind resharpening, but hate reprofiling to repair chipped edges. So the less tough PM steels like Rex-121, Maxamet, ZDP-189, S110V, 15V, S90V, M390, 20CV, 204P are just not options for knives I intend to use.
Moreover, most production companies that use the M390/20CV/204P trio appear to run them soft to cut abrasives costs/warranty claims, and I think this may account for Mike's issues with many particle metallurgy steels, as much as their composition.
There are some great, tougher PM steels that are routinely heat treated to 60+ HRC. For harder use especially in fixed blades, the high-alloy tool steels CPM-CruWear, CPM-4V, CPM-M4, with K390 at Spyderco's 65 HRC heat treat being my favorite.
MagnaCut, remarkably, slots onto this line around 4V while being highly corrosion resistant, though it seems only a few production companies are heat treating it to 62+ HRC where it would really shine. For others, as with so many knives in M390, the steel is part of the marketing.
For pocket knives where more stainlessness is desired, XHP, CPM-154, SG2, S45VN, and Elmax. And when extreme corrosion resistance is desired, the expensive, rarely used Vanax.
As for ingot stainless steels, 14C28N is as tough as CPM-3V, though it gives up a lot on wear resistance. AEB-L is similarly tough, and may be the best cutlery steel (where wear resistance isn't so important), as its the toughest stainless that can be heat treated to 63 HRC. And LC200N has miraculous corrosion resistance for a martensitic steel. This trio clusters in the high toughness, moderate wear resistance corner of Dr. Larrin Thomas's charts. For a more balanced, more wear resistant ingot stainless, VG-10 is still an excellent choice. The wear resistance of 154CM and 440C, but a little tougher and takes a keener edge.
154cm and cpm154 are still the 🐐
Stuff gets SILLY sharp, strops up easily, pretty corrosion resistant if its highly finished.
I wish Spyderco would switch their bd1n knives to 14c28n. I find that steel far superior and a manix lw in that would rock.
I really like 5 of 6 steels you mentioned, but I'm no fan of ZDP-189--I'd take it over non-CPM D2, but yeah it's not for me. There are plenty of steels I like much more that work great with either a toothy, fine, or polished edge, like CPM-M4, K390, etc. that I'd always reach for before ZDP-189 and they probably have better edge retention too (at least K390). 4V, Cruwear, Magnacut, LC200N, and 3V are all great and tough. All those tough nitrogen-based extremely stainless steels are great for giving up some edge retention for fine grain structure, more toughness, and more stainlessness--makes sense you wouldn't be a fan if you prefer toothy edges.S90V, M390, 14C28N, 154CM, and VG10 all work well with coarse to polished edges, so for me ZDP-189 is the one weird outlier with big carbides of the bunch and by far the lowest toughness at its needed minimum 65RHC, but it's also not really stainless either.
Totally agree.
All I know is a well made knife is a well made knife.Paying outrageous prices because it's got super steel sucks.I would love to own some of these pricey blades but I'm like when I pay $700.00 for a knife ,I don't use it because who wants to mess it up when u can use a much cheaper blade to beat up. So these really expensive knives just sit there and pile up as a collection and not as a tool to use like they're supposed to be.
I very much enjoy a good budget steel, when around the house. But since getting the spyderco leafjumper in k390 it has put pretty much every other knife I own in retirement from being carried. K390 has blown my mind but it's still fun to put a well heat treated budget blade through its paces.
K390 is pretty awesome. Just bear in mind that dirt will dull any steel rapidly.
@donjuanmckenzie4897 yea I have shovels for dirt.
@57HEMIviken Yeah cool but guess what? Things like sticks and logs and cardboard get dirty all the time 👍 🙄
@donjuanmckenzie4897 you gonna tell me concrete will dull my blade too? I've got no problem using my knives for knife tasks, either way I've got a hapstone rs that will take care of it. For anything else I started carry a crossbar lock folding utility knife.
@@57HEMIviken Hence, the reason why super steels are wasted on general purpose use, genius. Got anymore stupid things to say?
I wish Elmax got a longer time in the spotlight. But in terms of the average user S30V is more than most people will ever need.
100% agree
For me, it's titanium. All aesthetic and they charge you 2x for one of the most common elements on earth.
Your paying more for titanium cause it's a lot more time and tools to mill titanium..
Agreed !!!!
Money and usability.
Supersteel does nothing for me , I cut wood 99% of the time . I dont use folders, only fixed blades, and for bushcraft outdoors, it just doesn't matter.
I like carbon cause it takes on character, stainless is boring and when ya do get a scratch it looks horrible.
I can see why people who like folders would love super steel esp for cutting boxes and other manmade materials. BUT the price in this market sucks.
154-CM is not a modern version of ATS-34. 154 is the original and was first put into knife making by R.W. Loveless. It was actually designed for high speed, heat resistant Jet Turbine blades and was an upgrade of Crucible's 440-C. Crucible ran into issue for a while and it became rare as hens teeth.
Loveless and Jim Merritt traveled to Japan and met with Hitachi and convinced them to make it for them. Hitachi named it ATS-34. Iit was and is a Japanese 154-CM. ;
I hate to disagree with you Mike knowing you’ve been around the industry for a long time but having talked to Bob Turzola, Bill Ruple, Sal Glesser, and Bill Smith’s apprentice Aaron Fredrick they have all stated that 154cm being used in knives is the result of Robert trying to find a better knife Steel in the 70s. However it was made based on the Hitachi ATS 34 due to the aircraft industry needing to find a way to produce it domestically because it was expensive to import and in limited quantities. if you watch my interview with Bob Turzola he talks about this in depth…
As far as 14c28n -from Sanvik industries
THE HISTORY AND DEVELOPMENT OF 14C28N STEEL
14C28N steel was developed by the Swedish company Sandvik Steel in the early 2000s. The company was looking to create a high-performance steel that would be suitable for use in knives and other cutting tools. The steel was developed through a process called powder metallurgy, which allows for a high degree of precision in the steel's composition.
The steel was first introduced to the market in 2008 and quickly gained popularity among knife manufacturers and users. The steel's combination of excellent edge retention, corrosion resistance, and good balance of hardness and toughness made it a popular choice for high-performance knives.
In recent years, 14C28N steel has become one of the most popular high-performance knife steels in the market, and is widely used by many knife manufacturers around the world. Many knives makers and manufacturers have adopted 14C28N steel as their go-to steel for their knives and tools.
It is a very valid point the community has gone a bit mad for the super steels that are out there which I have found odd only because 98% of them that are so passionate about the new steels spend more time out of all of use in the knife community cutting up cardboard and paper. Then again if that’s what floats your boat then have at it and happy collecting ( just remember that part when you’re stuck on the sharpening table lol🫵🏻😘👍🏼
While a fork can do everything, spoons have very varied uses. all these steels. they're all good, the hype folks just ruin the credibility for steels.
Youre not done with supersteels because the is no such thing as a supersteel.
Gimme some well done s30v. It's always done well by me. The hipsters hate it but i love it.
1095 and 3v are the best non stainless steels for my use.
Agreed. I have carried the very "unsuper" steels you have listed for ages. CPM3V is as super as I'm going to get for a hard use outdoor knife /Chopper. BUT properly processed A2 serves well...I have also carried and used Cold Steels original Japanese made AUS8A knives since the Voyagers came out and still do. When it STARTS to get dull, HONE it with ceramic. Hone it every time you use it. You don't need to grind on it with some aggressive stone, just hone and strop it. VG10 Delica serrated does the box opening work. Breaking down cardboard? That's what God made utility knives for ...yes I said it. Im not spending $300 to $400 on a knife and hammering on it with a baseball bat thru a hunk of wood or ripping up nasty old household carpet.😂 People get into knock down drag outs and months long arguments about this stuff on YT and its just out of control.... JMHO YMMV