Making a Spindle Lock for the Grizzly G0602 Lathe
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- Опубліковано 8 вер 2023
- Today I'm making a spindle brake (or spindle lock) for the Grizzly G0602 lathe. The goal is to hold the spindle still while clamping and unclamping the Hardinge speed-collet chuck, and while installing and removing chucks. Without a lock, the spindle turns freely, and the only good way to hold it in place is with a hook spanner, or by opening the door and physically holding the pulleys with your hands. No thanks.
Inspiration for the design came from Bison Workshop: • grizzly g0602 spindle ...
Tools used in this video:
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Raw Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License
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00:36 Look ma! No brake!
03:05 The CAD model
06:13 Assembling the 3D printed prototype
09:38 Test fitting on the lathe
11:01 Squaring the stock
14:48 Drilling the longitudinal hole
19:22 Drilling the spring and cap holes
22:01 Drilling and counterboring the mounting holes
23:38 Boring the concave end
26:40 To be continued...
Glad I'm not the only one that got into machining to make parts for other non-machining projects but end up spending most of my time making parts for my machines 😂
i still feel you will like the spring on the handle to keep it out naturally so it dont get forgotten. you will crash it one day. and the rubber belt the this lathe has is only a timing belt a sudden jolt to the teeth on the belt will be the weak link. but great job on the machining. and thank you so much for mentioning me. this was very cool.
Thanks for the idea!
Idk i think the other guy had the simplest easiest idea with just having the removable handle. You could even make it like one of those drill press keys with the springloaded front that keeps you from leaving it in the chuck. Id go with simple and safe.
3D printing parts prior to CNC milling has saved me so much time, money and grief. I've been making a ton of parts for my boat in teak (crazy expensive) and aluminum, and I haven't had to recut a single thing in the past few months. Usually I can get the part dialed in after 2-3 test prints, and then really take my time setting up the mill job.
I would also add a somewhat stiff spring between the block and the handle, that pushes the handle and pin out and away from the spindle. This way you won't be able to accidentally bump the handle and run the pin into the spindle while lathe is running. Also maybe it's a good idea to have some circuit breaker that disconnects the power once you push the handle in. I have a Priest tools spindle brake on my PM-25MV milling machine and it works exactly same way, as soon as I try to engage the spindle brake, the power disconnects and the motor stops.
With a "return spring" you might want to omit the retention grove for the engaged position. That way it will always default to unlocked. Yes it makes it less convenient, but it also makes it easier to avoid forgetting the spindle lock when you engage the motor.
It's a bit like the hated spring loaded chuck keys. Inconvenient, but it saves you from a very embarrassing mistake.
Now this doesn't mean there shouldn't be a power disconnect when the lock is engaged. But it's not as critical.
You can go one better by having a solenoid wired in parallel to the motor that locks the pin in the unlocked position when the motor is running.
James could an a second detent to the spindle lock pin that would activate an NC microswitch contact. The switch contacts would be between the #4 connections of the Start Button Switch and E-Stop Switch resulting in the lathe's failure to energize the spindle. See G0602 Manual page 67.
disconnecting the power when the pin is in also means you can't forget that it's in and damage any of the running gear if you try start the spindle while it's locked in place 👍
I use a block with a dowel pin, and always leave the pin out. You can add a chain to your handle and always pull it out and let it hang.
The Hardinge HLVH has a micro switch integrated into the spindle lock plunger that will not let the spindle start when engaged, you could do this with a plunger inside the spring exiting through the top cap that could move a micro switch
Who else had a little bit of a pucker moment when the block lifted in the vise. 🙋😂
Great video as always James, thank you for uploading! 👍👍
Remember you can also put the boring bar in the boring head sideways for a larger bore and increased rigidity from less offset.
The shank of the boring head is threaded, so I would need a left handed boring bar, which is a tool I don't have. They are also useful for machining the outside diameter of backing plates in the lathe. Maybe I should get a couple.
@@Clough42 For a through bore like that you could always flip the bar and bore from the bottom up. However, any excuse to buy a new tool is a good one.
Good idea. I never thought of that!@@RambozoClown
Videos like this makes me regret giving up that hobby and selling everything i own😂
It's not over-engineered, it's SUPER-engineered
If you only need the lock to tighten the speed collet, why not have a single spring that keeps the lock disengaged, manually push it in with your left hand and tighten with your right, and when you let go you have no fear of forgetting and turning the spindle on while locked
edit- turning on the spindle while locked certainly isn't the end of the world but why leave it to chance? especially when you only need to lock it to snug the chuck the last little bit.
because it has other uses thaan just the speed chuck - its useful any time he needs to thread on a new chuck
Also, why remove all chances to make a mistake. Life is boring without risk. 😂 That's funny if you know me.
@@ThatRaggedyDoctor depends on the drive setup of the lathe and the motors exact position.
@@ThatRaggedyDoctor you win the comment section today. I appreciate all the concerns expressed in the many, many comments about flaws in the design (because they feed the algorithm) but I don't think this one is realistic. I'll try it in my video next week and we'll all see.
@@Clough42I have the same VFD you have and a similar motor.
If you still have rubber drive belts, you’ll trip the over-current protection on the spindle almost instantly in most cases.
I run accu-link belts, and it sometimes slips the belt before it trips the OCD or I shut it off.
No real risk either way. I believe the worst that could happen is you damage a belt.
A trick we used to use when drilling cross holes in hydraulic manifolds is to put a sacrificial pin in the larger cross hole and drill into it, then pull/drive it out.
Just in case there aren't enough heroes after this war, let me add my $0.02. The detente system is nicely done but I would add a second similar system on the top side and ahead of the existing set of grooves. The difference with this second system is that there would be no ball bearing. Just a straight spring loaded pin in a square(ish) groove. It would be set to engage at the same time as the locking pin returns to the unlocked position. This would mean that every time the locking pin is disengaged, it would be locked in that position. The user could only engage the lock again by retracting the safety with your other hand. One would need to be careful to put the safety pin/groove far enough ahead that it doesn't interfere with your other grooves or else make sure it's wide enough so as not to be able to drop into the existing grooves.
Great channel!
Cool project. Check out threaded ball spring plungers some time. No need to make your own detent. The threaded kind are great for adjustment. I use these all the time and I have a box of random sizes. McMaster has a good selection.
There are set screws you can get where the end has a domed plunger on the end. Not sure if they are used for detents or something else. But I used some in the past and they worked great for that. Could have saved you drilling a nd tapping 2 holes and searching for spring and ball.
When you get the lathe/collet chuck combination fully sorted it will be a thing of joy to use.
As a side note, printing functioning M3 threads is not a fantasy. It certainly takes some time to get the process dialed in, and sometimes you must make sacrifices in order to do it. I've had success printing a functioning male and female 4-40 thread on a $250 printer. The one caveat is that they must be printed in the vertical orientation, so if you have multiple threaded features on a part that run opposing to each other, then you must decide which direction to orient the part. Also if you are printing in a particular orientation to yield a stronger part and your threaded features run opposing to that, then I guess you're SOL. Do i run a tap through the holes anyway? yes! 😀
Would be a simpler and more robust design to use a grub screw follower on your detent spring in place of the cap and additional screws.
Yes. That was my original design, and I tried it, but it's challenging to make it fit. The clearance hole for the spring is really too large to tap it M5, and M6 starts to get pretty big for the space. Getting an M6 short enough to leave enough length for a reasonable spring limits options.
@@Clough42 Actually I'm surprised you did use a spring plunger set screw as an all-in-one adjustable solution. I love those for making detents, and being able to adjust them after the fact lets me get them just right, even if I don't select the ideal spring pressure in the design phase.
M4 screw in the cap pushing on a slug that's the larger diameter?
What a great looking project. Thanks for sharing.
Thanks, James. Another great video. I look forward to your videos every week. I have learned so much from you over the past few years.
I really enjoy your videos!! When deep drilling, I have found that drift can be minimized by spotting, drilling, boring ~0.010" under and finally reaming. Alternatively and usually even better is to spot in the mill then transfer to a true 4 jaw chuck in the lathe, pick up center with indicator and true center, drill, bore, ream. For some reason it's almost always truer when the part is rotated rather than the drill, etc. Just a thought.
Love the automation direct pen!😊
Hi James. Nice work.........the one disadvantage of that design is that you can't lock it in any position if you want to do indexing of work in the chuck..... using a toolpost drill/mill/grinder
I'm getting to really like this channel. His machine work is meticulous. He's not at all adverse to using the metric system and, his presentation skills are really good. Most excellent.
I would also install a microswitch to prevent the spindle starting when it is locked, otherwise you would have a bad day.
That sounds like something that could be tested.
Nice job as always. We shared this video on our homemade tools forum this week 😎
Surprised at all the comments thinking something else would be better. I love what you have going here and will probably do the same. Having two hands free and a locked spindle is quite a handy feature.
Turns out, people have opinions. Some of them could be right. :)
@@Clough42
"And another thing…". :)
@@Clough42I don't think limit switch is needed. If drive is properly let up, they don't have much initial torque. I think drive would error out without damaging hole or pin. Love the content, ordered everything to start els conversion for my South Bend 9.
If you are watching a workshop tutorial and the guy has a cigarette hanging out his mouth the whole time you know you're about to get hit with some good stuff.
That’s pretty good. Never thought about the cigarette connection. Most likely will be an older person with a lifetime of experience in using and repairing machinery.
Always a joy.
Nice simple solution.
Seems like a practical solution to me 👍
Bro that intro earned you a sub man. Nice work homie.
Nice work. Great idea. Thank you for sharing.
Bison workshops idea
Cool project
I'm loving this project. And I'm shocked you haven't designed and built a power unit for adjusting the speed on the mill RPM 😊
Nice project!
Great video James. I immediately thought about using a flat wrench such as a power steering wrench, but I love the pin idea - much more permanent. I also thought it would be good to add a switch in the stop circuit so the lathe won’t start with the pin engaged. The vfd usually has low voltage control. We had this on a drill press so you couldn’t start the press with the chuck key in. I’m adding this to my lathe as well for the chuck key. Keep up the great videos. Thanks,
James: I've made a similar Spindle Lock as well. It has a problem though, as does your Design. When the Spindle is Turning, and you place a Finger on the Top Surface of the Spindle Lock, there's the Danger of a "Pinch Point". The likes of which can "Sever your Finger Tip". The Culprit: Think Lathe Chuck Locking Keys. (When I get a moment, I'll attach a Simple Sheet Metal Guard to my Spindle Lock's Top Surface).
Great video! Thank you!
I loved this little project. To me. it begs for nickel plating. That seems like it would a great aesthetic match to the rest of the spindle parts. As always, I look forward to your wonderful productions. Each time I learn something, and that in itself is worth a lot. Keep up the great work.
Great video as always, thank you. I've used a number of hobby lathes and mills, none of them had spindle locks and I've always managed to need that feature at some point. Quite an irritating omission.
Nice job, James! Now, I've seen you set up the workpieces with the edgefinder over and over again in this video and during previous projects at the mill. Did you know that once the vise is setup correctly, you can measure the fixed clamp of the vise with the edgefinder and save this location as "zero" in the DRO? For non-critical parts you can even save the location of the left and right sides of the vise in the DRO. That will save you a lot of time in the long term. You do not have to measure the back (or sides) of the workpiece again and again, as this remains constant with the fixed clamp of the vise.
I'm a bit surprised at the plastic cap and two screws for the spring. I've usually seen that sort of assembly made by partially threading the detent hole and using a set screw to capture it and adjust the tension.
Looking at @MrBiddo's comment, i see you tried that and an M5 was a bit too small. A #12 set screw would be about perfect, i think.
There's still a length challenge. Also, this is the Internet, so using an imperial set screw in a metric design on an import machine would be especially entertaining.
@@Clough42 It's actually traditional: i have a metric boatload of import tool holders with M8 set screws that have 3/16” hex recesses.
@@Clough42 Oh man, just think of the comment engagement numbers if you did use an Imperial setscrew in the detent. Especially if you pulled the now classic UA-camr move of "if this gets N likes, I'll change it." (It's occasionally fun to think of the things we could do if we had no personal standards or self-respect, isn't it?)
I'd love to see you grind this part on the surface grinder if you do it
add a micro switch for the vfd so no accidents can happen 😅 nice build like always
Hi James, there are a lot of comments about how this might go wrong one day. Clearly, any design that requires you to press and hold against a spring isn't helpful as you'll then have one less free hand. How about this: take the three mounting bolts you already have planned and turn a weak spot in the bolts as a break away. Just like the shear pins on a snowblower. If your spindle lock ever catches one day, it'll just shear the bolts without much drama.
Another idea is to use nylon bolts.
Did you remember to reprint the bolt hole template?
My G0602 spindle lock consists of a long pin that fits into the hole on the spindle collar, and the screw for the splash guard that sits at the 1:00 above the face of the spindle will act as a brake. Depending on which way the spindle turns for installing or removing a chuck, I'll have the pin on the opposite side of that splash guard screw, and when the pin hits the screw, it has plenty of stopping power so that you can tighten or loosen the chuck. I never have the chuck installed gorilla-tight, so this method works well for me.
You can use the horizontal hole in your boring head to get a larger diameter. I’ve done that many times in this type of setup. Just grind your self a tool with the proper clearances.
Pro tip… you can print to paper in a second to check dimensions, laser printers are pretty amazing in dimensional accuracy, there’s not much need to spend hours and hours printing in 3D to sanity check
If you have an extra set of IO pins in your electronic lead screw you could include a microswitch in the lock to prevent the spindle from being turned on when it's engaged. (I see @mathieub3953's comment is along the same lines).
The ELS does not control the spindle. It's the other way around. The ELS reads the spindle with an encoder.
@@Clough42 True. I can't remember if your lathe has a VFD, but that would present another option, or if your spindle is activated through a low-voltage DC relay perhaps you could add an interrupt somewhere.
A friend of mine has a locking block on the spindle like your lathe does. I know it's not as fun as designing and building an exotic locking device like you have, but what he does is just slip an open end wrench over the block to loosen and tighten the chuck.
Now, you need a microswitch or proximity sensor on the pin arrangement as a failsafe to inhibit the spindle when the pin is engaged with the spindle. .......it never ends!😂😂😂😂😂
Thank you!
A virtue of vicious cycle is that what comes around goes around and lessons can be learned.
Very interesting. If it was my lathe, I would have spring loaded the lock pin along the moving axis of it so that It always retratct. no need for latching the pin in and out and it would be easy to just push it with one hand and with the other un/ tighten the chuck. It would be safer but the drawback is that I need a third hand to hold the part in the chuck :)
Ha ha 😄 I was sitting here thinking "I really need you to run that thing through your surface grinder, James!"
Oh, and the thumbnail gives away that you did that 💪
I would consider a safety stop for the pin. That way you can’t turn the lathe on with the pin engaged.
Future Video Idea: replace the detent with a spring loaded shaft, so it requires you to hold it in place. Only AFTER you forget to disengage it for the first time. 😂
Habor Freight sells spring kits. But Ideally the ones I use the most for detents are the springs for locks/deadbolts pins.
I have one. Nothing small enough for a 4mm ball.
@@Clough42 I have had good luck with spring kts for gunsmithing too. If you need something with some serious power, those are usually good bets too. Browning sells them.
On my lathe I just put the gears in Low and the drive train provides enough resistance for most anything I need to do, of course having a foot brake for those instances where the low gear is not enough is nice too 😊
Surface grinder for the final finish? How about some nice "engine turning" for a little extra bling? You likely would want to SG it to remove the end mill swirls first. But then some engine turning would sure up the bling factor.
Judging by the video's thumbnail, James did indeed run this through the surface grinder. That, or his CAD software can render the part with a ground finish -- but he wouldn't cheat like that, would he? 😁
I do have the software to do that, but no, that's a photo, and yes I ground it.
I get what you said about a drill flexing and coming out not where you wanted. I think you could have used a ball end mill, cutting the slot in 2 parts, then screwed them together? Yes, that would be more work, if it was really critical would have tried it that way?
Lee
So a for the is waiting. Thanks for the video keep on keeping on.
What you need is a lever or servo actuated mechanism that cuts out power and uses friction pads to lock the spindle but that might be too much work for a bench lathe.
My first thought was a hydraulic bicycle disc brake.
@@Clough42 option for a v2 revision ;)
Why not just hold the spring and detent in with a grub screw? It would cut one part and would sill do a good job keeping it against the rod. It'll also protect from birds nests and chips getting hung up. Just a thought.
My $0.10... you should put a grove on the handle in an area that when its pushed in the grove is hidden in the block and when pulled out its clearly visible then fill the grove with a green paint so its a quick visual "go / no go" indicator.
if you layed the block down and milled the end wih the y axis its stiffer and safer. you could move one of the parallels to the center of the block out of the drill path and not rely on the vice clamp pressure to keep it from moving during the side drilling and counter boring
im only at 4:45 in the video atm, but why not use a grub screw or normal screw to push a shorter spring directly for the retention system?
just a thought
I would be scared to death that during jukin' and jivin' lathe work that the lock shaft would shake loose and lock into that spindle and end up costing me way more than this mod was worth. Just being honest. Seems neat, but sometimes we over engineer. That seems to be the case here to me. Like a chuck key, make it removeable and put it in your pocket when you're done. It's not worth the risk no more than you're going to need it.
yeah, I wouldn't do it either. Seems too risky.
Hence the detents.
Also, with the pin so closely tolerances to the hole in the shaft, its a bit of a challenge to get the pin socketed at any speed as any chamfers will eject the pin before it gets deep enough to lock.
Ironically, deeper chamfers will make the pin easier to seat at standstill while also making it more difficult to lock while in motion.
The trick is the tolerance between the pin and the hole. A sloppier fit will make an inadvertent lockup at speed more likely.
It'll be fine.
The handle is recessed so it can't be frobbed by accident, and the detent and tight tolerances will work the rest of the time.
This is a home shop, not a production line, so no need worrying about the bored fools.
@@ddanielmiester Bored fools? I'm the last one in the world to raise my hand, sir. If I'm concerned about it, it's probably worth at least considering. I was raised in a real garage and shop my daddy ran, and I've seen more than my share of FUs, a couple of them almost fatal. Will it happen? Probably not. I have sense enough to look at the specs and the build too. Just because you can doesn't mean you should. Spring loaded to the regressed position would have been a much better option here, and I didn't even mention that. Why? Because it ought to be removable. I said what I said. Over engineered. I do it too.
Based on the thumbnail, spoiler: future James did take it to the surface grinder.
The three holes can now be used for dividing 🇬🇧👍.
Hi James, i'm a new viewer to your channel....enjoying it...was this spindle lock made on a different mill? i thought you had a cnc mill.
He has both manual and CNC at his disposal.
I have a benchtop CNC conversion and a manual knee mill. CNC is cool, but I enjoy the hands-on operation.
Very Nice. The 3D prototypes are time savers. I use 3D printing a lot more for proof of concept than making end use parts. I did want to say that I'd rather have a spindle lock that was spring loaded to keep it retracted and only engage when I need to lock the spindle. One less thing to check before starting the lathe. You will probably never leave it engaged after removing the chuck.
I just got a magna bender. Damn you!
Long holes through steel.. time for James to get into EDM? 😎
No need of course, good machining practice is all that it needed, nice one! But… toys…!
EDM would be super interesting.
Why not partially thread the spring hole, use a shorter spring and set screw to change tension to suit ? fewer parts, fewer holes.
Ha! I figured this will be the next video 🍿
Me too! (I had no idea)
an easy hack would be a pin on a swing arm pivoting on that conveniently placed bolt holding the green back cover
Oh, interesting. If you could control the length precisely enough, that could work.
@@Clough42 the fit on the bolt probably wouldn't need to be that tight, a hook spanner isn't a precision instrument either ;)
You could just get a hook spanner and bolt the end of the handle to the head stock. Any length discrepancy could be overcome just by rotating the spindle till the pin dropped in.
@@jamiestotz2516 the length has to be reasonably correct else the pin will not go straight in
Love the channel, but is there anything you've made that isn't another tool or enhancement to your tools?
I would have made it screw in, with a cone point end to lock into the spindle hole.
That way it would stop all spindle movement, and provide precise registration, useful for some other jobs where the spindle needs to be securely fixed like keyway cutting.
It would be a bit slower to engage, but have more varied uses.
I would forgo the lower spring holder. Just tap in a grub screw under the spring. Less parts!
I'm surprised that you didn't make the pin retract naturally if you're not using it. Like the chuck keys I'd be paranoid about turning the lathe on with the pin in the hole ...
This is exactly what I thought
He likely didn't because if the brake is retracted by accident when doing something that needs to be stationary that can be equally dangerous
Now I want to turn on the spindle with the pin engaged, just to see what happens. Maybe I'll try that next week.
Maybe install a switch into it so you can’t turn on the spindle with the lock engaged? I love the design though. Very slick.
@@Clough42 most likely your VFD will cut out, but more risky is accidentally engaging it while the spindle is running, you could end up damaging the spindle bearings or/and the gears.
I stuck a microswitch on the lock I put on my mill that engages the estop on the vfd so it's impossible to turn on engaged. Also have you considered shortening that spotting drill to not have as much stick out from the chuck? Rigidity for accuracy
Just out of curiosity, you converted your old mill to CNC and then added a Precision Mathew’s knee mill. Ever considered something similar for the lathe, maybe upgrading to a bit heavier duty Precision Mathew’s lathe and then doing something like adding CNC to the old one or something else interesting? Or just replacing it? They seem to have a couple they call high precision lathes that would seem to fit right in with your need for perfection😁
Everybody wants this spring loaded but I think it too useful that it stays locked, I'd go with an interlock switch.
Playing around with a strap wrench? You milled two flats on that spindle nose adapter, right? Just use a (huge) (adjustable) wrench?
One thing you possibly seemed to have overlooked is the flatness of the face of the headstock (it's painted!) or even if it's properly aligned with the axis of the spindle: it's not a reference or precision surface. But yeah: the 3D prototype helped to check if it's good enough.
yeah, i can see how one would be prone to run of out time for projects when the wife is working out in the immediate vecinity ;) :P
What happens when you forget to take out the pin and start the machine? Will you break something? If yes, you should add some kind of switch that will lock the motor while the pin is engaged or something like that.
I'm sure he will cross drill the pin and place a spring on it and so it will auto retract or something
An integrated spring would be a great little upgrade to this project!
I was worried about the same thing.
@@johnszwalkiewicz3367 don't think he will do that because you then need one hand to hold the pin locked. Maybe it's good to have two hands to open/close the chuck.
It’s beautifully made. A question from an ignoramus though. Would the 3D printer block not have been strong enough with a metal pin?
Hi James. When we would see new video with cnc?
I have a 11x26 with the same spindle and just use an old Phillips screw driver.
Wouldn't make a very interesting video though.
Maybe make pin spring loaded to keep the pin away from the spindle,
10:14 being halfway, wondering if you going to include a safety. So when engaged, no lace action ( micro switch, and some relais)
Curious, why retain the spring with 3 parts? Wouldn't a setscrew do this?
Do you have a positive retention feature to make sure you can't bump the pin in while the lathe is running? I strongly suspect that wouldn't end well ...
Did you make that spanner wrench for your quick change tool post? The Snap-On spanner wrench handle?
Such a capable milling machine why are you taking multiple passes with small cutters??
No electrical interlock to prevent starting the motor with the lock on?
could have been 3 less parts with a blind detent. Like your tap wrench. I use them on my chuck handles and my meatball on my vises (when your handle detents to the center your handle is a speed handle.)