I was born in Altoona during WWII. My grandfather worked in the railroad shops and my mother would always take us out to Horseshoe Curve. . The whole idea to it was that locomotives could negotiate that grade in the western Pennsylvania mountains. It was a world famous engineering feat in the early 20th century. Don't know why this guy only had one engine for that long train.
Yeah, single engine puzzled me too yet.. My grandpa aka Pap did 58 yrs @ PRR in Altoona from brakeman to block operator. Unfortunately he died in '66 when I was 4 so no shop tours for me. Truly enjoyed the Arcade ( SwNY*) & Attica RR as a youngster & went several times. Still operates but don't know if they still have steamers. *we were the only family that moved there; 3 went to Canton, OH
I absolute love trains but the panoramic view of the lush Pennsylvania landscape makes this my favorite train video...EVER! Thank you, Dan! If I lived there, I'd be parked in that little viewing area, every day.
Great video for sure. Pennsylvania summers at their best. The only time the curve and the Pennsylvania mountains look any better is in the early fall when the leaves turn but haven't dropped much yet.
Tonnage tables/charts for each locomotive type were put into employee timetables for a reason.....to make sure crap like this didn’t happen! Now, you have a bunch of non-railroader bean counters who ignore all of it and try to see how many hundreds of cars that can throw behind an engine in the name of “Precision Scheduled Railroading.” This is the result.
Can't believe that train was assigned 1 loco when the passing coal train had 2 on the front end and a helper set on back. NS is either cheap or terminal dumb or both.
Lots of friction in the curve , and not enough HP assigned to this train caused it to just stop. I'm no train engineer, but I do ask myself why the Engineer & Conductor agreed to take this train with a single loco on the front end. My guess is they were TOLD by their Boss or a Dispatcher, someone who has never operated a train in their life.
Well, there may not have been a helper set available in Altoona at the time, so possibly told to get as far as they could and they'd get a help as soon as one was free. Happened before.
Been to this spot so many times growing up in Altoona. Used to count the steps on the way up and down. Now I just play on my phone during the incline ride.
I'm curious as to why Northfolk Southern sent this coal train up the grade with only one locomotive and expected it to make it. You don't often see a single unit at the head of a coal train on flat land let alone trying to climb a hill.
cool, i was walking up the steps, when that train stalled out, it wasn't raining when i arrived at the curve, but those few raindrops was enough to stall the train
Oh, you think the RR's care about that? lol they couldn't give the slightest fuck. Depending on the RR you run off of either TPA or HpT and to the RR, as long as "the numbers are good" the train is good to go. They account for the entire route of the train and often forget about the little hill in the middle. Oh well, just get another crew and find another motor. Rinse and repeat.
Nope. The trainmaster assigned the power and that's that. At CN it's the same thing. If it stalls they'll have to find power elsewhere. CN has notch restrictions. Engineers CANNOT go over notch 5. If they do it's a 30 day suspension. There are black boxes on rack locomotive and the trainmasters download the information on their laptops.
Having watched countless hours of the Horseshoe on Virtual Railfan, I have no clue why that train would only have a single engine with no helpers to get up the Curve as you need at least 3 engines as a minimum to do that properly
Precision Scheduled Railroading, AKA: Uphill slow, downhill fast, tonnage first and safety last! In PSR you only put one unit in the lead and no helpers.
@@doncarlton4858 that's great and all but you've never seen how the Horseshoe works as it's ALWAYS at least 2 engines on the front and 2 helpers usually at the back
@@MrThedwp The elevation of Cresson (west of the HC) is 2.057 feet; Altoona (east of the HC) is 1.161. I call that a huge difference in height some 15 miles apart from each other!
It was the same management that decided 2 yrs. ago that 6 empty lumber cars up near the locos on a long train derailed climbing out of Altoona on the curve & we’re surprised!
I guess NS has a shortage of locomotives since so many of them have been wrecked lately? Or maybe the people in charge just don’t understand the concept of HP per ton.
Not enough of diesels to pull the load. The old steamers used to pull loads up this curve back in the day. My grandfather, great grandfather and allied families worked for the PPR back when steam was king. One distant cousin was killed in a train crash at Axmen back in the late 1940’s. Two trains where on the same track. Made front page news.
The math probably said yes, one loco should be able to pull that string of empties but only barely. The curve, the weather, maybe a stuck set of brakes etc meant no. But as its the lowest priority, its cheaper to send it out with a single and maybe not need help and then, if it is needed, send a local power pair to get it up the curve and be done. Seems silly but its probably more efficient in the long run.
Finally a sensible answer. I worked for the NS Railway for years and believe me they always get the most out of their motive power. Sometimes decisions don’t seem to make sense but you can bet they usually have a sound reason for what they do.
Some NS bean counter is like “Impressive, EMD. Next time is a GE. We’ll do one Dash 9 and 130 hoppers for the curve.” Maybe this is the PSR replacement for load tests. ONE UNIT😂🤦🏻♂️ c’mon man!
good old SD-40s man...... . i hope they never retire them i know their is two GP-40s that are FRESH rebuilds here in NE montana that move grain cars around
If that was a siding, don’t know without a rail chart, or double main. Train masters are ultimate say on how many engines . But the two helpers on rear could have been there and he was allowing the second train to pass or the extra engines coupled later ?
Us locals to the Horseshoe Curve call these incidents "Norfolk Southern Gravity Experiments". Worst part about this is: Those cars are empty. No coal headed West. Just empty's.
I just love to see the trains go by remember gravity is still in control whether your loaded or empty if you don't have the horses your gonna stop. Been stopped at RR crossings many time due to a train not having the engines to make the pull. Been in the transportation industry for 30 years and it is the same all over many times people in the offices don't know what it is like on the RR or the highway. A computer tells them it will work when the driver knows good and well it is a wasted effort not matter what part of the transportation industry comes from. Love the trains though raw brute power still stopped gravity. Nature always wins. Love the video love the trains pulling hard keep it up as long as you can we will watch the beasts pull no matter what happens on the rails.
I've been there. My reaction to this video was exactly the same as everyone else's: Why the heck would anyone use only one engine through Horseshoe Curve to pull THAT train. How many decades of trains /experience on this curve????????
It can be done in both ways. When it’s done manual they would communicate with radio, when they are done in remote control it is all controlled by the main locomotive
Only options you got are back down the grade which is highly unlikely or get some helper units to arrive as that’s far more safer. Gotta think safety first.
I was born in Altoona during WWII. My grandfather worked in the railroad shops and my mother would always take us out to Horseshoe Curve. . The whole idea to it was that locomotives could negotiate that grade in the western Pennsylvania mountains. It was a world famous engineering feat in the early 20th century. Don't know why this guy only had one engine for that long train.
My Dad was born in Altoona. I know right where this is.
Yeah, single engine puzzled me too yet..
My grandpa aka Pap did 58 yrs @ PRR in Altoona from brakeman to block operator. Unfortunately he died in '66 when I was 4 so no shop tours for me. Truly enjoyed the Arcade ( SwNY*) & Attica RR as a youngster & went several times. Still operates but don't know if they still have steamers.
*we were the only family that moved there; 3 went to Canton, OH
On a different subject, do you remember the gas station nearby that for many years featured a bear in a large cage? 1960s?
Because the accountant in Atlanta said it would work…
and a emd also not heavy enough
I absolute love trains but the panoramic view of the lush Pennsylvania landscape makes this my favorite train video...EVER! Thank you, Dan! If I lived there, I'd be parked in that little viewing area, every day.
Great video for sure. Pennsylvania summers at their best. The only time the curve and the Pennsylvania mountains look any better is in the early fall when the leaves turn but haven't dropped much yet.
It annoys me that the photographer just carried on filming when he could have helped push it up the hill.
Lmao
🤣
😀😄😁😆😂🤣😭
And the people making comments, absolutely worthless too!
😅
@@gonebamboo4116, yep we should have been there too
I’ve worked on those tracks before, the whole time we were there I always witnessed 2 engines in the front and 2 helpers in the rear!!!
Tonnage tables/charts for each locomotive type were put into employee timetables for a reason.....to make sure crap like this didn’t happen! Now, you have a bunch of non-railroader bean counters who ignore all of it and try to see how many hundreds of cars that can throw behind an engine in the name of “Precision Scheduled Railroading.” This is the result.
I would like to know why only 1 loco was assigned to that train!
PSR. Its cheaper to just let the train stall and scramble to find a helper than it is to have one ready to go when you get there
Pathetic. Conrail knew how to move trains better
It's sad to me what has become of NS.
The dispatcher have some explaining to do about this. 🤔
I wonder if someone was fired on that day.
Can't believe that train was assigned 1 loco when the passing coal train had 2 on the front end and a helper set on back. NS is either cheap or terminal dumb or both.
Welcome to PSR. Cutting costs for the share price
I think the same when I saw only one locomotive. Especially, seeing that it was a coal train.
@@traingirl09 empties
Correct!
@@jonglass, ah ok. I didn't look closely to see if it was. Thanks for the call out.
Lots of friction in the curve , and not enough HP assigned to this train caused it to just stop. I'm no train engineer, but I do ask myself why the Engineer & Conductor agreed to take this train with a single loco on the front end. My guess is they were TOLD by their Boss or a Dispatcher, someone who has never operated a train in their life.
Management at their best. Someone promoted to the point beyond their capability.
Well, there may not have been a helper set available in Altoona at the time, so possibly told to get as far as they could and they'd get a help as soon as one was free. Happened before.
@@350Scrambler I’m
@@denislapointe7692 You're what?
Part of the conductors job is train compliance, making sure they have the proper hpt to get over the hill.
I’m sure the insulation on the traction motor cables liked that!
You mean that stuff dripping off the cables that's hot as lava?
Wet day mate by the looks of it. Current draw would be a lot lower due to traction problems
Oh they loved it
Can smell it from here! 😂
That is actually a very nice place :) Beautiful nature and trains!
That’s what I thought as well.
Been to this spot so many times growing up in Altoona. Used to count the steps on the way up and down. Now I just play on my phone during the incline ride.
Yes on my trip to the US in 2010 spent a few enjoyable hours at this spot
Incline has been out of service for probably three years now give or take
I was here in 2012. A must-see place to visit if you like trains. The trains just keep coming and coming.
You would think that NS should know how many units or horses needed to complete the run.
Well, of course they do. This was just a publicity stunt
This is ns being stupid .
That was nuts only one engine on that train
All he needed was a little help from his friends. 🚂
Yeah, he got by with a little help from his friends. He got high(er) with a little help from his friends.
I'm curious as to why Northfolk Southern sent this coal train up the grade with only one locomotive and expected it to make it. You don't often see a single unit at the head of a coal train on flat land let alone trying to climb a hill.
That’s a hell of a consist for one engine
cool, i was walking up the steps, when that train stalled out, it wasn't raining when i arrived at the curve, but those few raindrops was enough to stall the train
I'm betting flange friction.
But the A.I. said it would work!
Just absolutely beautiful, saving money for sure.
Great video it looks like that engine may need a few more helper engines
How so weird! I put in an application for this company and this video popped up on my feed!! Interesting and informative to watch! Thanks for sharing!
Great job and great view of the curve
Thanks! I'm glad you enjoyed it!
Your welcome you should check out my NS train catch’s from here and the Conway yard
I thought he was going to stop and see if the stalled engineer needed a ride 🤭🤭
I bet either the dispatcher or power desk clerk got their asses handed to them for dispatching a train for the hill under powered.
Oh, you think the RR's care about that? lol they couldn't give the slightest fuck. Depending on the RR you run off of either TPA or HpT and to the RR, as long as "the numbers are good" the train is good to go. They account for the entire route of the train and often forget about the little hill in the middle. Oh well, just get another crew and find another motor. Rinse and repeat.
Nope. The trainmaster assigned the power and that's that. At CN it's the same thing. If it stalls they'll have to find power elsewhere. CN has notch restrictions. Engineers CANNOT go over notch 5. If they do it's a 30 day suspension. There are black boxes on rack locomotive and the trainmasters download the information on their laptops.
It sounds like the UP under powered
Nice video. This must have been recorded before 2020, with the older helpers.
Regular yard master on holiday again?
One locomotive!? I know the trains empty but he didn't stand a chance! Come on NS!!!
All I can say is HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Precision failroading in action.
I would've loved to hear what the 2nd train conductor was saying to the 1st one on their radio system.
I bet it was a good chirp
Having watched countless hours of the Horseshoe on Virtual Railfan, I have no clue why that train would only have a single engine with no helpers to get up the Curve as you need at least 3 engines as a minimum to do that properly
Precision Scheduled Railroading, AKA: Uphill slow, downhill fast, tonnage first and safety last! In PSR you only put one unit in the lead and no helpers.
@@doncarlton4858 that's great and all but you've never seen how the Horseshoe works as it's ALWAYS at least 2 engines on the front and 2 helpers usually at the back
Indeed i also watch Virtual Railfan and have never seen an empty coal train with 1 engine!
@@jwslijm7278 thank you as at least someone knows the score around here
@@MrThedwp The elevation of Cresson (west of the HC) is 2.057 feet; Altoona (east of the HC) is 1.161. I call that a huge difference in height some 15 miles apart from each other!
Wow that's amazing I was not expecting to see SD's push him up the hill
teamwork makes the dreamwork
What is astounding to me is the amount of torque applied to get the train moving on that incline. The wonders of diesel-electric propulsion!
That old train engine i will have to get a picture of that someday too
I've never seen a single diesel loco at the head of a coal drag.
This is when the mac really NEEDED those 6000HP
Sd70acu not a mac 😊
@@KyleW818 It was a joke but the ACU was originally a MAC
@@midwesternrail4729 sorry i didn't know you where joking :)
Great footage! 😊
👍👍👍👍👍👍 for the helpers,
I wish there was the radio calls from the train to the dispatcher! That would have been quite interesting!
Just on that route from Pitt to Florida
Nice ride.
I'm very surprised this train only had one locomotive. Should have had a second unit.
Always SDs to the rescue. LMAO 🤣
Are they still useed as helpers even though NS has 3 sets of SD70Acu helpers
Who's the genius trainmaster that put one engine on the lead for a climb up the east slope ?
Should always have two (2) Pushers on Every Train on this Subdivision of the NS Railroad Line.👍
It's amazing that under such a load that locomotive isn't belching out black smoke!
Modern emission controls say no!
Cool video!!
Great video like it very much .Hope there more to come .
It was the same management that decided 2 yrs. ago that 6 empty lumber cars up near the locos on a long train derailed climbing out of Altoona on the curve & we’re surprised!
I guess NS has a shortage of locomotives since so many of them have been wrecked lately? Or maybe the people in charge just don’t understand the concept of HP per ton.
I guess trains aren't that strong after all, lol
nice vid, greetings from Washington
-Konlin Kuykendall
I hear they got a strong union and it was just time for coffee.
0:01 the litt”NORFOLK SOUTHERN” that could
Didnt notice how many locos originally on the train, wonder how many joined.
1 Orig. Loco . 2 Joined
Not enough of diesels to pull the load. The old steamers used to pull loads up this curve back in the day. My grandfather, great grandfather and allied families worked for the PPR back when steam was king. One distant cousin was killed in a train crash at Axmen back in the late 1940’s. Two trains where on the same track. Made front page news.
I am pretty sure I have seen both 6311 and 6308 in Radford Va, N&S rail yard located there I think at the time they were pulling an intermodal drag.
This was a costly drop off.
Putting either one or two remote pushers at the back would have avoided the delay, possable danger and cost.
It's a jb hunt engine!😂
The trainmaster doesnt care if the train is under powered once it departs the yard its not his responsibility 😂
Whoever dispatched that train with one engine obviously has not yet found their calling in life.
The math probably said yes, one loco should be able to pull that string of empties but only barely. The curve, the weather, maybe a stuck set of brakes etc meant no. But as its the lowest priority, its cheaper to send it out with a single and maybe not need help and then, if it is needed, send a local power pair to get it up the curve and be done. Seems silly but its probably more efficient in the long run.
Finally a sensible answer. I worked for the NS Railway for years and believe me they always get the most out of their motive power. Sometimes decisions don’t seem to make sense but you can bet they usually have a sound reason for what they do.
You should get out there and give it a bit of a push😜
When is the cam coming back?
high hood: COME ON YOU CAN DO IT
Ns 7272: feels happy
According to Train Sim world, the Curve is on a 1.6% grade. So trains coming out of Altoona are climbing that grade.
My fprofeeser at college worked as a logistics manager at SWIFT Transportation . His math showed only one little engine would pull 23000 ft. train.
He's probably the idiot that convincing the railroads to use PSR!
Did his math take into consideration that real railroads have inclines and curves?
@@stanpatterson5033 I believe that was the joke.
One Loco on a coal train .....up hill....... I can’t believe it stalled .....???
PSR strikes again!
Seen that happen first hand, same place. I live about 45 minutes from there
It would be nice to see 4014 take that grade. The sound would be awesome.
It can't it can't do the turn boiler would snap off
My question is... why did they put one ACU upfront lol
One extremely *"Sad Day For Railroading"* 😢
.
. *_But very interesting for _**_#Rail_Fans_* 🤗 👍
Some NS bean counter is like “Impressive, EMD. Next time is a GE. We’ll do one Dash 9 and 130 hoppers for the curve.” Maybe this is the PSR replacement for load tests. ONE UNIT😂🤦🏻♂️ c’mon man!
You'd think that a railroad would know how much power and/or traction is needed to get the train to its destination!!
Who makes the decision on how many locomotives / train configurations?
Was the ganger who refills the greasers on holiday that day or what?
As crazy as it was to have 1 engine going up but how unsafe would that have been coming down
Nice pair of standard cabs on the rear, anyway.
Why did they put one unit on the head end?
Where were old 1361 and 3750?
good old SD-40s man......
.
i hope they never retire them
i know their is two GP-40s that are FRESH rebuilds here in NE montana that move grain cars around
I doubt they will retire them, these Locomotives are to reliable to simply be retired, CSX, UP, And CN, CP, still uses them.
Interesting! Why wouldn’t they do that to begin with?
Too many bean counters messing 'round.
I saw one in the opposite direction in the same place but it happened in the opposite direction of this train
What happens you say ??Well of course you say Giddy Up ...😂😂🐴🐴
(As Gordon the Big Express Engine) Oooohh, The Indignity!
If that was a siding, don’t know without a rail chart, or double main. Train masters are ultimate say on how many engines . But the two helpers on rear could have been there and he was allowing the second train to pass or the extra engines coupled later ?
I thought that Diesel electrics only made chug chug noises not music.
Why would you try to ascend the mountain with just one locomotive? Sheer lunacy.
It was an empty train but still not a smart move.
Us locals to the Horseshoe Curve call these incidents "Norfolk Southern Gravity Experiments". Worst part about this is: Those cars are empty. No coal headed West. Just empty's.
Who cuts the grass?
From where would the helpers have been dispatched?
Altoona which is a few miles to the east.
Beginning of a new mission in train sim world 2..
"Helper? We don't need no stinking helper!"
I told ya ya shoulda put in premium diesel instead o' regular! Maybe if we unplug the coffeemaker and the TV....
I just love to see the trains go by remember gravity is still in control whether your loaded or empty if you don't have the horses your gonna stop. Been stopped at RR crossings many time due to a train not having the engines to make the pull. Been in the transportation industry for 30 years and it is the same all over many times people in the offices don't know what it is like on the RR or the highway. A computer tells them it will work when the driver knows good and well it is a wasted effort not matter what part of the transportation industry comes from. Love the trains though raw brute power still stopped gravity. Nature always wins. Love the video love the trains pulling hard keep it up as long as you can we will watch the beasts pull no matter what happens on the rails.
As Mr Rogers used to say, "Look for the helpers!"
Norfolk 'ngood by the looks of it
Locomotives don't carry tow chains ?
It was good that there was a pair of banking locos available.
I've been there. My reaction to this video was exactly the same as everyone else's: Why the heck would anyone use only one engine through Horseshoe Curve to pull THAT train. How many decades of trains /experience on this curve????????
How do they coordinate the power of the helpers with the lead unit? Is it done manually with radios or are the helpers controlled by the lead unit?
It can be done in both ways. When it’s done manual they would communicate with radio, when they are done in remote control it is all controlled by the main locomotive
Only options you got are back down the grade which is highly unlikely or get some helper units to arrive as that’s far more safer. Gotta think safety first.