broke my clutch cable on my kx250 two stroke during qualifying for a the final,made the final,but no cable so sat on start line for final in neutral,gate went ,throttle wide open,smashed it into gear,blasted off line.,no clutch whole race,.....got third place in final...won some money...
I have a little real world proof of your thought. Been riding bikes 45 years. Literally since a baby sitting on my Dad's metal tank Hodaka. I also raced shifter karts for about ten years. We took dirt bike and snowmobile engines to levels there never meant to be at. And under torque loads that they weren't intended. Due to the heavy mods and super sticky gum like tires. I personally have run Honda cr125, rs125, cr500, Rotax 250cc 256 twin and 257 single in karts. Some races were a hour long on huge track like Daytona, Road Atlanta, Barber, ect. The ONLY time I used the clutch was at a standing F1 style start. We ran em hard and lean. Even ran overdrive on some the bigger tracks(21t/front with 19 or 20t on the rear). I stuck a cr125 6 times in one day at Road Atlanta. I won the 97 SKUSA SE championship. So we had to push em to win. And in all that time of clutch less shifting. I had zero failures anywhere in the clutch or transmission. So I feel pretty certain the is no problem shifting with out the clutch. Just blip the throttle. Right when I got out. Guys started using a device that cut ignition when the shifter moved. You could keep your right foot down. And start banging through the gears. That little device was good for a few tenths a lap.
hellsbay Shifting without engaging the clutch will wear your clutch out. If the rpm of the crankshaft isn't in sequence with the rear wheel, you'll wear out the friction plates of the clutch or worse. Not using a clutch is referred to as power shifting, and in the long run, its not healthy for your engine. No matter how good you time your engine rpm with power shifting, it does more harm than using the clutch. Further more, there's an automatic clutch called rekluse, which prolongs clutch life in the same manner using a manual clutch does.
power shifting is using the clutch to shift without letting off the throttle, yes this is very bad, shifting without the clutch by breaking torque with the throttle not a problem, the speeds between the ascending gears is not that far out as well as the dwell between the dogs.
John McRae Go to the rekluse website, they claim that their auto clutch product prolongs clutch life. The auto clutch is just a device that controls the clutch more efficiently, it's the same as if you used the clutch lever, it would prolong clutch life. rekluse.com/products/dirt-bike-products/
John McRae and I actually shift properly, so I don't care what power shifting, clutchless shifting, granny shifting, is or how it's done. I'd beat anyone in a straight line using the clutch against their clutchless shifting methods, any day, all day.
finally someone with a proper video and examples... great job, no clutch here, up or down, I just slam that bastard in with a little throttle play going up and make sure im at the appropriate speed going down. clutch for takeoff only.
This is one of the most comprehensive and informative videos I have ever watched. Excellent. And as a side note, I have ridden and raced bikes my entire life and only use the clutch when necessary; starting out or in tight traffic, etc. Good job.
I have been a licensed motorcycle mechanic for longer than I care to admit. Your video is very well done. The only thing I might add about clutches is to push your bike while in gear with the clutch pulled in and engine not running...if there is drag then there must be friction...which proves your point of the input shaft turning with the clutch pulled in. Just in case your viewers still have any doubt.
you've taught me more than I've ever learned in class about this shit. I wish there was a way I could reciprocate my Thanks. honestly thank you so much my dude. I cannot word how much this video has changed my views on many aspects of shifting and now I know so much more. on every challenge of yours I was like "oooohhhh" every time. it makes complete sense, everything you said made absolute sense and even though I had trouble following along a lot of the time I understood everything of what you were trying to say if I kept watching. I don't watch long videos. I'm a 21 year old hothead. but as I was watching suddenly it was over and I was like "what? 28 minutes flew by that quickly? hot damn" anyway I'm rambling at this point. Thanks again dude. have a great day!
Great video!! Yes, the clutch does not automatically stop the trans input shaft from spinning. Just start up your bike on the stand in neutral and watch the rear wheel spin! I began shifting without clutch on a section of the track after a corner up a hill with big acceleration bumps and had to have all fingers on the grip to hang on but still needed to shift. I shifted by accident with no clutch and it was perfect so I asked a guy who rebuilds engines and transmissions. He said you can shift with no clutch and no damage will occur. After that..i'd shift 80% of the time without clutch. Clutch is for cornering, ruts, rear braking in the air, and of course..starting forward momentum. Keep up the good work AND stop worrying about the idiots and trolls!!
I raced Shifter Karts with 6 speed gearbox at National level. Raced open wheel cars 1 level under Indy Car with 5 speed gear boxes, and ride motocross with 5 speed gear box. I have 30 years racing experience. What do all the boxes have in common? Straight Cut Gears and Dog Rings. Guys, its a non issue. Release a fraction of throttle as pulling up on next gear and your in it. No lift shift systems work doing the exact same thing but electronically - pull up into next gear, cuts ignition for a micro second and your in it. The gearbox on motorcycles is NOT designed or intended to be used with a clutch. The fasted, smoothest and most accurate shift is no clutch.
It's easier to roll off the throttle and pull a clutch lever in, pull the shifter up, then let the lever out and roll back onto the throttle? Funny, all it takes to do a no-clutch upshift is to roll out of the throttle, pull up on the shifter, and roll back in the throttle. That seems a lot simpler to get consistently right since you're only timing two events instead of three, but I'm weird like that. Even DOWNSHIFTING is the same. If you're downshifting right, you're giving the throttle a quick blip to bring RPM up so your rear tire doesn't lose traction. Guess what? You can downshift without using the clutch when you give it that quick twist!
+Jordan Hillard How do you figure that? The EASIEST way to remove torque, is to let off of the gas. How are you achieving anything different by using the clutch?
I ride enduro and seriously it's not that hard to pull the clutch in when upshiting. It is now an automatism. No matter if it's in technical stuff or high speed trails. It's so simple to pull the clutch in, just stop being lazy x)
brilliant video on the clutch, im a vehicle techinian, and have always had interest into bikes but never considered doing research and just one video has made me understand the construction and use of each independent part. it's just like a manual in a car. but the diaphragm is the clutch plate, the rings are the friction plate. nice vid
You are right, I used to race shifter karts in road racing. (cr125 Honda engines) and we only use the clutch for the standing starts. Even that we reach up to 110 mph and upshift and downshift at high speeds and rpms (up to 11000 rpm) this transmissions did not show any sign of abuse. All we had to do was release throttle for a sec to engage. There are some products in the market that actually cut the ignition for fractions of a second that allow to shift without lifting the throttle.
That is what I was looking for... the products that cut the ignition allowing shifting. We use to use the kill switch on the magneto Harley's back in the 60's for a momentary shift device. I was thinking of putting a kill switch activated by the shift lever for upshifting to do the job, just lift the shift arm which would activate the kill switch first just before engaging the gear. That would eliminate the throttle blip which I sometimes screw up. Got any info on these products?
This video is amazing! You should also mention that when the engine is off and the bike stationary you cant get it to shift more that one gear (if any) without rolling it foward and backward a few inches. Thus moving the output shaft and allowing the dogs to mesh. Furthermore if the engine is on, clutch lever pulled, and the bike is stationary it shifts multiple gears more easily because the input shaft has a small amount of torque on it. And this small amount of torque can be more easily seen when the bike is running on a stand (with the rear wheel off the ground), in gear with the clutch lever pulled in and the rear wheel magically spins. Thats the simplest way I explain it when people try to say the transmission stops moving when the clutch lever is pulled in.
Great video! Thank you for putting this together! Isn’t it amazing how many people STILL respond with hearsay and misinformation even after you explained and physically shown what happens inside a sequential dog ring motorcycle transmission ? 😂
Thanks man. Very informative. I rode dirt bikes for almost 10 years, and even got to go to a week training camp at Millsap's Training Facility back in 2010. One of the trainers said not to use the clutch when you shift down. I was a little confused because I partially did not believe what I heard. So I definitely needed some insight on if/why it's bad to shift without the clutch. But thank you for debunking all of these myths.
i used to shift most of the time when racing without a clutch, the clutch was only used for a standing start, this was to give me a greater grip on the bars, I can also shift in my van without the clutch and anyone can you just need to understand where the next gear will be in the rev range and how much to back off the throttle, don't listen to other comments where they have not had real world experiences, Great video
Droning on again you're right about the van shifting but floating a five speed isn't really a comparable example to a sequential gearbox. Youre correct tho!
Good vid. I have to admit I was very skeptical about this magical clutchless shift due to having worn out dogs and 4th gear that wouldn't stay engaged on my bike. This makes sense and likely the previous own was slamming gears WFO causing the issue. I now believe the earth is round and the clutch is not needed to shift.
Your videos are art pieces, and contain an invaluable amount of information. I admit on putting it on pause a few minutes in. I felt the need to chime in. I don't know what the negative/ignorant comments you got were like. I can say this however: had a used street bike with a very pleasant working transmission. Underpowered bike. Whenever I needed to pass, it required at least one downshift, usually two. I use the clutch in those high revs/high stress (for the engine) situations. When it's time to upshift, either it falls back to the lower gear, or it's a false neutral. I began clutchless upshifting in those situations. Problem solved. No extra tranny wear, ever.
Thank you sir, for confirming this with actual manufactured parts. Yes. It's perfectly fine to shift without the clutch! If you punch it in 3rd gear and try to shift with your thumb still on the gas, it's harder to push the lever for two reasons. One, the force on those dog teeth is designed to have enough friction to hold them together. A strong running 450 should make something like 33-38 foot pounds of torque. With a 2.82 primary, you'll be closer to 93 foot pounds on the shaft. Then with those little dogs, the radius from the dog to the center of the shaft is 1 inch MAX. That's 1000 pounds of force that the dogs have to share. With a .375"x.125" surface and 330 pounds of load with 3 dogs, that metal is running at 7000 psi. Then, the manufacturer puts a inward taper on the dog teeth. A couple degrees. You should be able to measure that with a caliper. That shit is gonna stay there. On top of that, the same force gets pushed into the other gear teeth and rapes the gear against the shaft. There's no way you're gonna move those gears unless you either lighten up the gas to choke the motor, or pull in the clutch.
Thanks for the great explanation and rationale on clutchless shifting. I don't normally use the clutch for downshifting, but was convinced that clutchless up shifting was not such a good idea (only for the pros), until I broke my clutch lever leaving just a little stub that was only really usable for starting off, so I tried upshifting without the clutch, and won't go back! I was still worried about what I might be doing to the transmission until I watched this, so thanks again. 👍
Very well explained. I rarely use the clutch for upshifting in the higher gears in any vehicle I have driven, whether it be semi truck, car, or a bike. It is also possible to downshift without the clutch but not for the inexperienced. The old saying "if you can't find 'em, grind 'em" was said to the amateur. "It make the gears less sharp for when you have to replace them." Speed shifting isn't for everyone and some people just can't get it..
Anyone who has ridden a bike with a worn cable, clutch plates or improperly adjusted clutch knows the clutch basket is never totally disconnected from the shell which connects to the engine. You feel the clutch dragging due to the engine and you hear and feel the dogs trying to engage but can't until the rpm is right or the main shaft slows enough for engagement. Good video.
The quick shifter on my bike provides the smoothest up shifts I've ever felt, no clutch engagement whatsoever. Yielding a gear change in 0.015 seconds there is no damage to any of the driveline components, the transition is quick and smooth.
my dad taught me you could shift an old muscle car without the clutch blew my mind. hes no longer with us so i appreciate the knowledge you bring to us younger folks who really have no one to teach us otherwise. God speed brother. Im currently practicing my emergency counter steering after seeing yammie noob and other people who got bucked.could you do a video possibly teaching how to practice this on a private road? ive watched a lot but cant find a video where someone actually does the demonstration and shows what it looks like in real time.
Great video! I'd love to see another video this detailed explaining what's happening when you encounter a false neutral... maybe show an example of a particular warn part that would cause it? Thanks for your dedication!
I'd just like to say that modern technicians are not your mechanic of days passed. I am a certified ASE diesel technician and they spent at least 3 months of 20 hours a week on each topic explaining why the engineers designed the things they did the way they did. Whether it was the trans/fuel system/engine/brakes/suspension and oh lord the electronics. So don't stroke your tip to hard buddy. But this was a solid and easy to understand video, good job.
I have also been shifting without a clutch for decades. I would put quick firm pressure on the sifter under full throttle and wait for it to fall into the next gear.I wouldn't slam it but wait the short time it would take for it to do it on it's own. I hope I wasn't hurting anything too much. Nice in depth video. I liked it a lot. Keep them up. Good info.
it's good to see a video proving that clutch less shifting dose not put extra force that causes extra wear on the gearbox when the shift is preformed fast . I think the most common reason for people to believe that clutch less causes damage is they shift slowly like they are used to being able to get away with when slipping the clutch out very slowly which is slowly allowing the torque to be re-applied to the gearbox but when you do this without the clutch the rear wheel if forcing the gears to turn at a constant rate to be synced with the rpm of the rear wheel so by slowly engaging the next gear the dogs are hitting into each other and there is a constant torque being applied to the transmission via the spinning rear wheel both are bad things for your gearbox.
Without question, hands down, the best, most informative UA-cam video I think I've ever seen! Not to mention 100% true. Thanks to the uploader. Brilliant explanation and video.
I made it through about 2 minutes of this video before I had to subscribe. Your rules of engagement should be applied to more than just dirt bike theory. Very thorough video sir!
I was always taught to always use a clutch when shifting, which is fine, I did a 100mile enduro race (6hrs) and my clutch hand was getting tired and was getting lazy, and then I realized I didn’t need the clutch to shift at all!! Saved my hands “energy” to slip the clutch for certain situations!!
You're absolutely right. No dispute from me. I wish this controversy would just stop. All it takes is one goofball to make a claim to hide his operator error or the guy that put his trans together wrong and it starts all over again. Transmissions may not last forever anyway depending on how you use it. The act of shifting without a clutch is NOT the root cause.
I dont understand why this video even had to be posted. Its such a easy concept to understand. If you use your clutch to shift you just wont wear down your transmission as fast in comparison to if you just power shift. Some people claim that they can power shift at the perfect RPM, which is all cool and all but each bike is obviously different. I rode bikes where the responsiveness was so slow that I had to power shift just to keep power. But for the sake of generally speaking, basically for all motorcycles, be a gentleman and use the clutch. Except if your riding a Ducati. Dont use it, makes a cool sound lol.
i almost never use the clutch unless stopping or starting, tight corners in the woods...and to build rpms, other than that, not much at all. Never any issues! good video
I think a lot of people think that a dirt bike trans works just like a cars trans. The problem when speed shifting in a car, is all of the gears aren't traveling at the same speed. This means that synchros are required. When you speed shift in a car, there's a small moment when the load of the vehicle is on the synchro. Of course the synchro wasn't designed for this so they wear out thus creating problems. The difference in a dirt bike trans. It's a constant mesh setup. Meaning all gears are moving at the same speed as each other. No synchro required. This is why you just have to blip The throttle. Instead of trying to match rpms. The load now falls on the gears. The gears that are designed to take load. Speed shifting is no different then letting the clutch out. To the people saying "your wearing your friction plates!" You can and should replace those dummy!
the best reason for neutral being between 1st and 2nd is really simple, you are always in gear, this is very helpful with high speed, enduro, motocross riding because you have to try to get it in neutral, i have ridden my neighbors pit bike a few times and his in all up gear ratio and when i go to a hill climb and dump the clutch to go up the hill i find myself in neutral, compared to my motocross (standard) gear ratio i would have been in first.
Good video man. Used this video to convince my sister to stop using her clutch. Every time you pull that clutch and let it slip you dirty your oil. "Challenge Four" Run your bike wide open in top gear pull in your clutch and shift into first and see what happens. (Not recommended)
owning and riding bikes since i was around 5 years old my dad was very set on using the clutch. ive been riding for years now and i feel like its abuse to my machine to dry shift. all my friends tell me its ok. great video from a mechanic who has tore into a gearbox or two. ill never be a pro so i guess ill be pulling in every shift because "dad says so". i totally see your point though
Clutchless shifting makes sense without synchronization. The low gear mass of the bike transmission negates the need for synchronizers. Good video explaining this concept.
i think that's a good and deep explanation from Mr. Opferman, i personnaly ride off road for 25 years, enduro/trails and motocross too, i'm no great driver, but i never upshift with clutch, and very rarely downshifting with clutch, i had 8 bikes from different makes, and never had any problem with the gearbox. you just don't shift like an idiot,under power,and do it snappy - exactlly as Mr. Opferman says. and in the right driving speed. never had any chips/sludge in the gear oil ( in 2 stroke bikes )...
Very good job on the video, I've been trying to convince one of my friends for years that there is no need to clutch when shifting. Unfortunately, much like many of the people commenting, he has little respect for evidence and instead insists that his clutch is a magical being.
the way I see it is, clutch less shifting is the same as using a quick shifter. it cuts power to the motor for a split second so the transmission doesn't have much load on it. thus, allowing the transmission to shift. love the vid. learned alot of new things about motorcycle transmissions. thanks!
So... im a young,dumb,teenager and this is what im getting so far. You don't need clutch to shift BUT you have to cut throttle down And another thing separate is that the gearbox is connected directly to the tire but the gearbox is translated to the engine through the clutch (the gearbox is separated from the engine by the clutch to phraseiy in a different way) Please tell me if im messing anything up
Dear comments section; “Get to the point, ur wasting my time. Kan u shift witout clutch?” This whole video is the point. You think engines, transmissions, and clutches are easy to explain? Even to those completely foreign to the topic? He answered it all. So if you’re looking for a cheap, clickbait video of a guy saying “yep you can do it” without any proof or statistical evidence, look somewhere else.
man, I'm kinda glad I have a four stroke for one of the points you made in this video; the one about running the bike (2 stroke) low on lubricant because of letting off the throttle without using the clutch and allowing the drive shaft to force the engine to run at a higher rpm than the gas is set to. In a four stroke I don't have to worry about this because the oil isn't moved the same as in a two stroke. Good thing too because I use compression braking A TON on my bike. It's sooo much easier for me to let the bike slow me down on a steep decline than trying to work the front AND the super touchy back brake.
But you do have the problem on a hill climb the oil goes to the back of the transmission and is not lubricating the cylinder as it should. A 2 stroke has the oil mixed in with the gas. (unless there is an oil pump of some sort, which at least older 4 strokes do not have).
In the first minute I knew I was going to like you! I read some of the comments below and all I saw was people arguing for the sake of arguing. You make a valid technical point about the impact or no impact a clutch has on shifting and half these idiots lose their crap on riding style and comfort.🤦🏻♂️ completely missed the point, took a puff of their electric sigaret, tied a manbun and started disagreeing because it makes them sound intelligent. Don’t you just love it when you absolutely win a debate and the comeback is: “Yea but...” followed by irrelevant diversion jargon. Reading the comments one can easily see real bikers with real world experience vs people who needs a little more time in the saddle and a little less time on the keyboard. lol.
Transmission is always spinning if the rear wheel is moving. It's directly connected. This is why it's harder to push your bike with just the clutch pulled in than if it were in neutral because neutral disengages the input shaft
Thank you for the in depth video, I was taught how to drive a car, semi truck, and ride a motorcycle without using a clutch to upshift and downshift. I have never damaged a tranny on a dirtbike and trying to explain to people how it works is so difficult. now I have a great reference to send to them.
Oh crap! I've been doing it wrong since the 70's. Pretty much never used the clutch on dirt bikes once moving. Heck, lot's times just stomped it into first to go. (Open bikes will do that.) The Euro bikes seemed a little happier at clutchless shifts. Especially Maicos in the 70's. Even my 91 Yamaha FJ1200 is perfectly happy without the clutch from 2nd to 5th. And it's got 69,000 miles on it. I guess I wasn't smart enough to know it was wrong so I never have broken a tranny. I have rebuilt a few gearboxes for other people but it wasn't from clutchless shifting in normal use. Of course there are factors. Close ratio boxes work better than wide. There is a bit of throttle finesse technique required. Stuff like that. It's not rocket surgery people. There's no magic in a tranny. They are overbuilt enough to take it. Just go have fun instead of talking.
FACT: Shifter karts DON'T use the clutch AT ALL when upshifting and downshifting, and they use Honda 1999 CR125 engines. Funny how in a sport where NOBODY uses the clutch there's not this "clutch debate".
I have a question about my current dirtbike, a SX125 from 2002. I have transmission problems which is that the gears sometimes jump out of gear right after shifting, happens most often from first gear to second but can also happen when shifting down. One time when I shifted from 5'th gear to 4'th but it turned to neutral for almost a whole second then the 4'th gear popped in there so the gearbox made a slamming sound (
When I was 22 I drove a 1967 Cougar XR7 GT from Los Angeles to Seattle with a broken pressure plate fork meaning the clutch would not disengage, this was after I lost a cylinder due to a faulty valve keeper so I dropped the intake valve and it munched the piston but did not break the water jacket. I cut the rod journal off and put only it on the crank to maintain oil pressure and side load from the other cylinder rod on the same journal, sealed the intake port with a piece of aluminum beer can and some high heat RTV. The clutch broke when I was test driving it in Costa Mesa. I simply started it in gear from every stop and using throttle/shift coordination never had any issues. Fortunately I had few stops on I5 with 7 cylinders with AC running even. I am now one who has driven 1200 miles with no clutch and a cylinder completely missing with no piston or rod, NOT a vibration free drive but at some speeds I could minimize it. Before the above, by the age of 12 I was doing clutch-less shifts on motorcycles to do any competitive riding since you lose time otherwise. This came in handy the few times when I broke a clutch cable far from Camp, to start I had to use a rolling start before shifting into 1st.
thank you! everyone tells me never clutches shift because it's not good for the bike but I keep saying it makes virtually no different but friction in the clutch but yet nobody believes me and I have wanted to show them a motorcycle transmission to prove them wrong although I still use clutch when shifting because it's a habit I've had since before I knew anything mechanically when I learned how to ride at a younger age
The clutch is a tool, you use it how you see fit. Yes, the gears are still moving while the clutch is "disengaged", but if you leave the clutch engaged the power from the engine will transfer through the clutch and into the gears completely. If you "disengage" the clutch, the clutch can slip when the pieces "smash" together. Yes, letting go of the throttle can minimize that "banging", but the engine is still spinning even though you're not giving it any gas, so when they do "bang" together, the engine is adding to that force (yes the clutch can still slip when fully engaged but it still takes more force to get it to slip). The clutch will minimize the rotational force of your engine from reaching your gears when shifting between them. Do/will I use the clutch when I shift? Only if I'm skipping gears or downshifting. Otherwise, the clutch is needed when you're going into first, braking, and when you're trail riding ( or doing crazy shit!). The clutch is still a vital component to bikes for those of you wondering why you even need a clutch, but it's purpose from a car's clutch varies a bit.
Thank you for helping me understand how the transmission works. That was one of the main road block i was experiencing when understanding engines on my own
Ive been riding bikes for nearly 100000 years, and i have learned that proper shifting does not require the clutch regardless of shifting up or down. All you need to do is sycronized the rpms of the forks and there heat of the chain into a synthetic harmony. Then, sport bikes will snort good race mesh.
I'm 62 yrs old. Been riding since 14. I've been shifting without the clutch the whole time. Never had one issue. I'm pretty sure anyone who rides aggressively figured out quick that the clutch is a waste of time and energy when racing. Great video... Case closed!
Lets take into consideration that millions of 18 speed transmission drivers of big rigs and heavy trucks shift without the clutch daily. Just think of how they shift 18 gears after every stop light, most experienced drivers DO NOT double shift every gear. When taking a road test for the class 3 (BC, Canada) commercial weight vehicle with air-brakes they ask that you shift by double clutching and shift without clutching to show you are capable of both. Why would they be asking you to fuck up your very expensive commercial vehicle. It works the same way but commercial vehicles are under a much greater load and much higher RPM's meaning it would be more dangerous would it not and result in more damage to the gears. You can most definitely grind gears untrained for sure. But as long as you're not forcing it when grinding gears there's no problem. Lay off the pressure adjust RPM with the gas and it pops into gear. If this indeed causes unforgiving wear and tear to the gears, then why would professional drivers who get paid solely on driving destination to destination shift without clutching, damaging their only source of income. Resulting in most cases paying for the parts and servicing that are damaged out of their own pockets not only for all the labour and parts but also not being on the road hence losing thousands of dollars. They cannot risk it. As long as you RPM match and shift appropriately you cause no more damage to the gears with or without the clutch.
I "blip " the throttle during up shifts on my 86 CR500 with a Barnett clutch and have been since 98 I run VP C-14 and the only thing stock is the frame. I think you're video is pretty accurate and well done. Subscribing
No clutch works for me on dirt bikes except when setting off. Had different experiences on road based machines , usually no probs going up the box but going down can be tricky if revs aren't right.
The only problem I have is you didn't talk about riding experience. I truly believe that inexperienced riders that try clutchless shifting, kill shift forks. I've seen it many times on dirt bikes, atvs, and motorcycles. It's easy for a pro to shift without clutching, but for a beginner they can do some damage.
This is a fantastic video if you're like me and just have never encountered a problem but want to brush up on it just in case. This alleviated my curiosity on why my bike sometimes is hard to put into first gear at a dead stop with clutch pulled. Gear dogs aren't able to slide in! Makes so much sense because It goes in easier by releasing the clutch a tiny bit to get the clutch basket turning to spin the gear for the gear dogs to engage.
I use my clutch no matter what I feel like I get more power out of my engine faster and can control it easier. I wish you could make a video showing how you purchase and import a maico dirtbike.
I completely agree. In the 70’s when I raced I rarely used my clutch. It was only used for coming to a stop or getting ready to launch. Most times I did use it in the corners but never on the straights, going into sweepers jumps rarely ever & I never had a trans failure.
I think what people mean about not wearing out as quickly is that the transmission won't be accelerating when under engine power, yes it's still under rear wheel power, but it won't be accelerating. Also pulling the clutch sets you keep on the gas to make it so the power applied is less without losing rpm. Then slipping the clutch would apply the power/acceleration gradually back to the gears. Again, yes it is still under power from the rear wheel. I do believe that using no technique and shifting under acceleration with a big clunk would wear it out quicker than pulling the clutch, retaining engine rpm, then gradually applying power with the clutch. Shifting properly without clutch is done by letting off the rpm and timing the shift so the power between the wheels and the engine is balanced so there is no torque on the engine. That requires you to let off the throttle, so if you can get rid of torque on the gears and shift by simply pulling in the clutch and retaining the rpm.
I think both of us are right. I use the clutch because I want to be able to retain rpm in the right trails because it is much easier to bog and sometimes very hard to increase the Rpms.
ive been riding since I was 14, im 41 now. ive had 2 strokes I only ride 4 strokes now days. im a pretty damn good mechanic but transmissions are all magic to me. ive never had trany go out on me. I would say about 75% of the time I do not use my clutch. if im ripping hard and trying to top out as quickly as possible, the clutch is an extra unnecessary motion period. I do let off or "blip" the throttle. not one time ever on any bike ive had have I heard any banging or grinding. the clutch is primarily there to get you moving from a stand still after that, use it, dont use it it shifts exactly the same as long as youre not a complete idiot. and again in 27 years ive never had a trany go out.
Poor guy literally proves everything and shows you mechanically why you can shift without the clutch and yet the 'clutch or bust' armchair experts are defending their flat earther theories.
Its called a counter shaft and the “shifter cam” is called a shift drum! No pro motocrosser uses the clutch to shift. Drag bikes use air shifters that slam the shifter without a clutch. The shift button also kills the ignition for a split second which is enough to take the load off the gears. You can let off the throttle and shift without the clutch which also takes enough load off.
Awesome video! I learned quite a bit just from this, I appreciate the work put in. It's good to know because a lot of people seem confused or think if you don't pull in the clutch, you're automatically damaging the gears, which seems wayy off after watching this lol. Myself, I don't normally pull in the clutch unless I have to, like using the back brakes (to prevent stalling) or to keep rpms high enough coming in and out of corners, or at the start of a race (obviously). Thanks again!
Opferman Motors Dirtbiking hey man I got a brand new bike, yamaha r3 and I accidently stepped on the shifter instead of the peg and slammed it into first with no clutch from a stop I was at idle, the bike lurched forward and stalled with a loud clunk, how much damage do you think I did? please respond to my email so I can read what you say, leonardpolistina@gmail.com
You are 100% on point, I watched this video from a link "the workshop channel (pony power)" this guy is out to lunch! I've been riding bikes from the age of 7, on the street since 1984 and I never use a clutch and I have never had trans problems, the speed between ascending gears are not whizzing buy each other as he states not to mention there is dwell between the dogs.
No I don’t use my clutch half the time but the gears aren’t what gets broke from shifting without the clutch. The biggest problem would most definitely be bent shift forks( which will make the gear jump out) or worn shift drum- been there done that!
The whole idea of gear dog's and dog clutchs is that it can be shifted under power. This is how sequential racing car transmissions are designed to be used. If it were a syncromesh transmission then the clutch needs to be used to prevent syncro wear and allow proper engagement.
Shifting with the use of the clutch has likely destroyed more motorcycle transmissions than shifting without. It depends more on how you use the throttle. Speed shifting by using the clutch can destroy certain motorcycle transmissions rather quickly.
I think the main reason of that myth is because people think that bikes use synchros in their transmissions (like a car transmission) that allow smooth engage/disengage and allow both gears to sync their speeds.
Im rebuilding my first 2-stroke and i found this very informative! Thank you! having a better understanding of how things work will help me assess wear and need for replacement parts. Cheers!
I'm new to dirt-biking and watched your video because I'd like to find out more information about how shifting works. This was very informative. However, I have two questions. 1) Why then do we have a clutch? Is it solely to go from parked to moving? 2) Does clutchless downshifting hurt the transmission?
I can tell you the answers to your questions based on my 2 or so years of experience riding my bike. I believe we have clutches not only for starting from a stop, but also to allow us to put on the power just right to tackle some pretty difficult terrain. I'll explain: Say you are riding a trail and you come to a step or a log in the trail that if you just hit it straight on with your tire it would flip you because it is taller than half way up your front tire. How do you get over that thing? Well, you wheelie a bit performing what is called a splatter. The first tire that hits the log if done correctly is actually your rear tire and voila you are over the obstacle. I have tried many times to wheelie without use of the clutch and found it to be extremely difficult because of a lack of power. And answer 2: clutchless downshifting may hurt the transmission more than using a clutch depending on the technique or lack thereof that is used to downshift. A blip on the throttle that's just right, or a blip that is too much basically dictates if it hurts the tranny. It's a bit difficult to reduce torque on the transmission with throttle alone for a downshift which is why using the clutch for a downshift is never a bad idea. I usually use the clutch as well as a blip on the throttle to rev match for a buttery smooth shift.
if you shift in to a insanly low gear like fourth to first but as long as your not jumping two three gears it will be fine and you can use the clutch to work the power kinda
Benjamin Stone As you get more experience on a dirt bike you will find the clutch is a tool to be used in conjunction with the throttle to control the torque of the engine. You are probably on a four-stroke so this will sound foreign but on a two-stroke you have to slip the clutch to get the engine rpm into the power band quicker. There's alot of technique that applies to both engine types such as slipping/feathering the clutch to prevent a stall in a high climb, or slipping the clutch on a muddy day to depower the bike so you can maintain traction. Of my 14 years of riding I spent 7 of them not realizing the importance of the clutch. It wasn't until I started riding two strokes and big bore four strokes that I had to learn how to depower a bike in slick conditions and how to ring the neck of a two stroke to keep it in the power band as often as possible. So don't worry the day will come when you lay the bike over, break off the clutch lever, and have to relearn to ride without it to get home.
I don't see how this is still a debate in 2017. There is simply not enough rotating mass in these little constant mesh boxes to require clutching between shifts.
Some of my bikes (Jawa and CZ 2 strokes) have a slick shifter mechanism installed as OEM equipment, so the clutch pops in and out whenever the gear shift lever is moved. Not clutchless shifting at all but to people watching it appears to be. The same system was licenced by Honda from Jawa for use on the famous Cub series and on the Honda 250 & 360 automatics. Triumph also installed a slick shifter on the Bonneville for 1963 only. with a slick shifter, it is possible to hold the clutch in and even slip it to pull away using only the gear shift lever. Kind of freaks people out at traffic lights pulling away with my left hand off the clutch lever and the lever moving on its own. Also extremely hand for when a clutch cable breaks whilst out riding. On the downside they do take some expertise and experience to set up just right as installing a new cable also means having to align the clutch drag (on the pushrod adjuster) for the slick shifter cam arm and the cable pull. Getting it wrong can mean that the clutch drags when stationary in gear unless the gear lever is held up or down. The other extreme is the slick shifter doesn't pull the clutch in cleanly and the bar lever also has to be pulled in too. When set up just right they allow for easy cog swapping, less left hand ache in heavy slow town traffic and higher tension clutch springs to be used, if the engine has been tuned up. Jawa and CZ 2 stroke road bikes and trail bikes seem to be unique as they feature 2 neutrals, one between 1st and 2nd gears and one between 3rd and 4th gears for long fast downhill coasting. The owners manual advises to not use fast prolonged engine braking for more than a kilometre downhill, hence the extra neutral. Gear shift patterns can be changed from 1 down 3 up to 1 up 3 down by changing a $30 gear fork guide plate. I prefer the inverted shift pattern as it is impossible to find a false neutral when accelerating up through the gears.
interesting! ive never had a bike trany apart (i never use the clutch to shift has never given me any problems) but i have had many truck transmisions apart and you cant shift without using the clutch unless you rev match because they use sliding clutches to engage gears to the mainshaft and it is spinning at such different speeds that the sliding clutches cant engage unless you rev match because the are tappered and get spit out. this video has answered a question ive had a long time wich is why can you shift a bike without the clutch and without rev matching its because the gears directly connect using the gear dogs wich are square cut not tappered. very good video!
I've always shifted up without the clutch. Backing off the gas or interrupting the ignition with a quick shifter makes it shift a bit easier. The dogs have a ramp angle machined into the drive faces to make the gears pull together under load so taking load off makes it easier. Shifting down I only use the clutch on tar to make it a little smoother. Stops the rear wheel hopping. On dirt I don't bother. I just back off the throttle a bit to make it smoother. Electronic quick shifters are best.
I've been using the clutch ever since I've been riding, since I was taught to. I agree with what you are saying, but it's such a habit that I can't just stop using the clutch. the only way I stop using it is if I watch my hands and always keep it in my head. It's just a habit.
I'm actually not advocating for people to not use the clutch that's a matter of preference, I'm only trying to explain that without the clutch is also ok when done properly and how the transmission works. so it's good.
Toby My question is this I rarely use a clutch from second gear on & have never had an issue & You did a fantastic job explaining everything BUT ... more often than not I find clutch less shifting from 1st to 2nd lands me in neutral that very scenario has caused 2nd to shatter from the shock of 7000rmp bang into 2nd my challenge to you is to show the potential for this to happen
I guess it depends more on ridding style... I use the clutch most of the time I shift because when shifting up I like to power shift and when breaking and shifting down I like to be able to tap the rear break and, if necessary, lock the rear wheel to start the slide. So I keep the clutch lever in the entire breaking time while going down the gears and controlling the bike with the breaks. Again, it's more of a ridding style and bike control thing than a mechanical concern
I knew most of what you talking about with the dog gears and such, but the intricacies about the oiling, the affect of pulling the clutch, and the one I never thought about; Rocking the bike to change gears dry! Very good detail sir, but that leads me to some questions. 1) Slipper clutch (street bikes) - When you were talking about deceleration (23:47), the driveshaft is still causing the transmission to spin the crank at essentially an "artificial" RPM. Is this one of the main reasons for the slipper clutch? It helps mitigate wheel spin on shifting, but is the side-effect also saving the transmission in these scenarios? I imagine street bikes are different since you would be decelerating quite frequently on the street without the need to downshift before the slipper clutch was conceived.
I was a professional motocross racer. So obviously i rode alot i never shifted with a clutch never once had a transmission or clutch problem. I was not nice when i shifted either. I held it wide-open and shifted up or down.
broke my clutch cable on my kx250 two stroke during qualifying for a the final,made the final,but no cable so sat on start line for final in neutral,gate went ,throttle wide open,smashed it into gear,blasted off line.,no clutch whole race,.....got third place in final...won some money...
We are not racing, i want my transmission to last 1000hours on my enduro bike.
Could you imagine the guy's poor wife trying to argue or disagree with him him on something?
If he is right he should carry on
Pretty sure his wife isn't stupid since he doesn't suffer fools very well.
Are you sure he has one?
"Im gonna need you to demonstrate your arguments with a detailed video or I am not responding to you"
I have a little real world proof of your thought. Been riding bikes 45 years. Literally since a baby sitting on my Dad's metal tank Hodaka. I also raced shifter karts for about ten years. We took dirt bike and snowmobile engines to levels there never meant to be at. And under torque loads that they weren't intended. Due to the heavy mods and super sticky gum like tires. I personally have run Honda cr125, rs125, cr500, Rotax 250cc 256 twin and 257 single in karts. Some races were a hour long on huge track like Daytona, Road Atlanta, Barber, ect. The ONLY time I used the clutch was at a standing F1 style start. We ran em hard and lean. Even ran overdrive on some the bigger tracks(21t/front with 19 or 20t on the rear). I stuck a cr125 6 times in one day at Road Atlanta. I won the 97 SKUSA SE championship. So we had to push em to win. And in all that time of clutch less shifting. I had zero failures anywhere in the clutch or transmission. So I feel pretty certain the is no problem shifting with out the clutch. Just blip the throttle. Right when I got out. Guys started using a device that cut ignition when the shifter moved. You could keep your right foot down. And start banging through the gears. That little device was good for a few tenths a lap.
hellsbay Shifting without engaging the clutch will wear your clutch out. If the rpm of the crankshaft isn't in sequence with the rear wheel, you'll wear out the friction plates of the clutch or worse. Not using a clutch is referred to as power shifting, and in the long run, its not healthy for your engine. No matter how good you time your engine rpm with power shifting, it does more harm than using the clutch. Further more, there's an automatic clutch called rekluse, which prolongs clutch life in the same manner using a manual clutch does.
xxFOXxxI2ACINGxx yeah your actually putting the engine understress due to power shifting which can cause multiple issues.
power shifting is using the clutch to shift without letting off the throttle, yes this is very bad, shifting without the clutch by breaking torque with the throttle not a problem, the speeds between the ascending gears is not that far out as well as the dwell between the dogs.
John McRae Go to the rekluse website, they claim that their auto clutch product prolongs clutch life. The auto clutch is just a device that controls the clutch more efficiently, it's the same as if you used the clutch lever, it would prolong clutch life. rekluse.com/products/dirt-bike-products/
John McRae and I actually shift properly, so I don't care what power shifting, clutchless shifting, granny shifting, is or how it's done. I'd beat anyone in a straight line using the clutch against their clutchless shifting methods, any day, all day.
I started shifting without the clutch a few months ago and now my left hand feels sooooo much better now :)
finally someone with a proper video and examples... great job, no clutch here, up or down, I just slam that bastard in with a little throttle play going up and make sure im at the appropriate speed going down. clutch for takeoff only.
Thanks, glad you liked it!
no need to use the clutch for takeoff just give it full throttle and drop er into 1st she will take right off
I just started dirtbike riding at 61. I like your rules of engagement👌Your explanation is very much appreciated. I subscribe 👍🇳🇿
This is one of the most comprehensive and informative videos I have ever watched. Excellent. And as a side note, I have ridden and raced bikes my entire life and only use the clutch when necessary; starting out or in tight traffic, etc. Good job.
Now I understand more about how these transmissions work, Thank you !
I have been a licensed motorcycle mechanic for longer than I care to admit. Your video is very well done. The only thing I might add about clutches is to push your bike while in gear with the clutch pulled in and engine not running...if there is drag then there must be friction...which proves your point of the input shaft turning with the clutch pulled in. Just in case your viewers still have any doubt.
OHHH MY GOD THANK YOU!!! Your a saint!! Finally someone actually explains why it doesnt matter! Props to you bro👌🏻👌🏻👌🏻👌🏻
you've taught me more than I've ever learned in class about this shit. I wish there was a way I could reciprocate my Thanks. honestly thank you so much my dude. I cannot word how much this video has changed my views on many aspects of shifting and now I know so much more. on every challenge of yours I was like "oooohhhh" every time. it makes complete sense, everything you said made absolute sense and even though I had trouble following along a lot of the time I understood everything of what you were trying to say if I kept watching. I don't watch long videos. I'm a 21 year old hothead. but as I was watching suddenly it was over and I was like "what? 28 minutes flew by that quickly? hot damn" anyway I'm rambling at this point. Thanks again dude. have a great day!
Great video!! Yes, the clutch does not automatically stop the trans input shaft from spinning. Just start up your bike on the stand in neutral and watch the rear wheel spin! I began shifting without clutch on a section of the track after a corner up a hill with big acceleration bumps and had to have all fingers on the grip to hang on but still needed to shift. I shifted by accident with no clutch and it was perfect so I asked a guy who rebuilds engines and transmissions. He said you can shift with no clutch and no damage will occur. After that..i'd shift 80% of the time without clutch. Clutch is for cornering, ruts, rear braking in the air, and of course..starting forward momentum.
Keep up the good work AND stop worrying about the idiots and trolls!!
Get to the point! If you remove the torque from the transmission: you're good. Using the clutch is the easiest way to do this consistently.
Two sentences to sum it up.This comment needs to be pinned to the top!
I raced Shifter Karts with 6 speed gearbox at National level. Raced open wheel cars 1 level under Indy Car with 5 speed gear boxes, and ride motocross with 5 speed gear box. I have 30 years racing experience. What do all the boxes have in common? Straight Cut Gears and Dog Rings. Guys, its a non issue. Release a fraction of throttle as pulling up on next gear and your in it. No lift shift systems work doing the exact same thing but electronically - pull up into next gear, cuts ignition for a micro second and your in it. The gearbox on motorcycles is NOT designed or intended to be used with a clutch. The fasted, smoothest and most accurate shift is no clutch.
It's easier to roll off the throttle and pull a clutch lever in, pull the shifter up, then let the lever out and roll back onto the throttle?
Funny, all it takes to do a no-clutch upshift is to roll out of the throttle, pull up on the shifter, and roll back in the throttle. That seems a lot simpler to get consistently right since you're only timing two events instead of three, but I'm weird like that.
Even DOWNSHIFTING is the same. If you're downshifting right, you're giving the throttle a quick blip to bring RPM up so your rear tire doesn't lose traction. Guess what? You can downshift without using the clutch when you give it that quick twist!
+Jordan Hillard How do you figure that? The EASIEST way to remove torque, is to let off of the gas. How are you achieving anything different by using the clutch?
I ride enduro and seriously it's not that hard to pull the clutch in when upshiting. It is now an automatism. No matter if it's in technical stuff or high speed trails. It's so simple to pull the clutch in, just stop being lazy x)
brilliant video on the clutch, im a vehicle techinian, and have always had interest into bikes but never considered doing research and just one video has made me understand the construction and use of each independent part. it's just like a manual in a car. but the diaphragm is the clutch plate, the rings are the friction plate. nice vid
Thanks! Glad you liked it
You are right, I used to race shifter karts in road racing. (cr125 Honda engines) and we only use the clutch for the standing starts. Even that we reach up to 110 mph and upshift and downshift at high speeds and rpms (up to 11000 rpm) this transmissions did not show any sign of abuse. All we had to do was release throttle for a sec to engage. There are some products in the market that actually cut the ignition for fractions of a second that allow to shift without lifting the throttle.
That is what I was looking for... the products that cut the ignition allowing shifting. We use to use the kill switch on the magneto Harley's back in the 60's for a momentary shift device. I was thinking of putting a kill switch activated by the shift lever for upshifting to do the job, just lift the shift arm which would activate the kill switch first just before engaging the gear. That would eliminate the throttle blip which I sometimes screw up. Got any info on these products?
This video is amazing! You should also mention that when the engine is off and the bike stationary you cant get it to shift more that one gear (if any) without rolling it foward and backward a few inches. Thus moving the output shaft and allowing the dogs to mesh.
Furthermore if the engine is on, clutch lever pulled, and the bike is stationary it shifts multiple gears more easily because the input shaft has a small amount of torque on it. And this small amount of torque can be more easily seen when the bike is running on a stand (with the rear wheel off the ground), in gear with the clutch lever pulled in and the rear wheel magically spins.
Thats the simplest way I explain it when people try to say the transmission stops moving when the clutch lever is pulled in.
Great video! Thank you for putting this together! Isn’t it amazing how many people STILL respond with hearsay and misinformation even after you explained and physically shown what happens inside a sequential dog ring motorcycle transmission ? 😂
Thanks man. Very informative. I rode dirt bikes for almost 10 years, and even got to go to a week training camp at Millsap's Training Facility back in 2010. One of the trainers said not to use the clutch when you shift down. I was a little confused because I partially did not believe what I heard. So I definitely needed some insight on if/why it's bad to shift without the clutch. But thank you for debunking all of these myths.
i used to shift most of the time when racing without a clutch, the clutch was only used for a standing start, this was to give me a greater grip on the bars, I can also shift in my van without the clutch and anyone can you just need to understand where the next gear will be in the rev range and how much to back off the throttle,
don't listen to other comments where they have not had real world experiences,
Great video
Droning on again you're right about the van shifting but floating a five speed isn't really a comparable example to a sequential gearbox. Youre correct tho!
Good vid. I have to admit I was very skeptical about this magical clutchless shift due to having worn out dogs and 4th gear that wouldn't stay engaged on my bike. This makes sense and likely the previous own was slamming gears WFO causing the issue.
I now believe the earth is round and the clutch is not needed to shift.
Your videos are art pieces, and contain an invaluable amount of information.
I admit on putting it on pause a few minutes in.
I felt the need to chime in. I don't know what the negative/ignorant comments you got were like.
I can say this however: had a used street bike with a very pleasant working transmission. Underpowered bike. Whenever I needed to pass, it required at least one downshift, usually two.
I use the clutch in those high revs/high stress (for the engine) situations. When it's time to upshift, either it falls back to the lower gear, or it's a false neutral.
I began clutchless upshifting in those situations. Problem solved. No extra tranny wear, ever.
Thank you sir, for confirming this with actual manufactured parts. Yes. It's perfectly fine to shift without the clutch!
If you punch it in 3rd gear and try to shift with your thumb still on the gas, it's harder to push the lever for two reasons. One, the force on those dog teeth is designed to have enough friction to hold them together. A strong running 450 should make something like 33-38 foot pounds of torque. With a 2.82 primary, you'll be closer to 93 foot pounds on the shaft. Then with those little dogs, the radius from the dog to the center of the shaft is 1 inch MAX. That's 1000 pounds of force that the dogs have to share. With a .375"x.125" surface and 330 pounds of load with 3 dogs, that metal is running at 7000 psi. Then, the manufacturer puts a inward taper on the dog teeth. A couple degrees. You should be able to measure that with a caliper. That shit is gonna stay there. On top of that, the same force gets pushed into the other gear teeth and rapes the gear against the shaft. There's no way you're gonna move those gears unless you either lighten up the gas to choke the motor, or pull in the clutch.
clutch-less shifting requires good or perfect rpm control i use the clutch because it helps me shift smoothly
If you've ever driven a semi it's the same you got to use clutch to start then after that perfect rmps or you can be hard on the trans and grind er in
@@thedeere1012 and that is why theres so manu fucked up truck transmissions out there
Thanks for the great explanation and rationale on clutchless shifting. I don't normally use the clutch for downshifting, but was convinced that clutchless up shifting was not such a good idea (only for the pros), until I broke my clutch lever leaving just a little stub that was only really usable for starting off, so I tried upshifting without the clutch, and won't go back!
I was still worried about what I might be doing to the transmission until I watched this, so thanks again. 👍
Very well explained. I rarely use the clutch for upshifting in the higher gears in any vehicle I have driven, whether it be semi truck, car, or a bike. It is also possible to downshift without the clutch but not for the inexperienced. The old saying "if you can't find 'em, grind 'em" was said to the amateur. "It make the gears less sharp for when you have to replace them." Speed shifting isn't for everyone and some people just can't get it..
Anyone who has ridden a bike with a worn cable, clutch plates or improperly adjusted clutch knows the clutch basket is never totally disconnected from the shell which connects to the engine. You feel the clutch dragging due to the engine and you hear and feel the dogs trying to engage but can't until the rpm is right or the main shaft slows enough for engagement. Good video.
Thanks!
The quick shifter on my bike provides the smoothest up shifts I've ever felt, no clutch engagement whatsoever. Yielding a gear change in 0.015 seconds there is no damage to any of the driveline components, the transition is quick and smooth.
my dad taught me you could shift an old muscle car without the clutch blew my mind. hes no longer with us so i appreciate the knowledge you bring to us younger folks who really have no one to teach us otherwise. God speed brother. Im currently practicing my emergency counter steering after seeing yammie noob and other people who got bucked.could you do a video possibly teaching how to practice this on a private road? ive watched a lot but cant find a video where someone actually does the demonstration and shows what it looks like in real time.
Great video! I'd love to see another video this detailed explaining what's happening when you encounter a false neutral... maybe show an example of a particular warn part that would cause it?
Thanks for your dedication!
I'd just like to say that modern technicians are not your mechanic of days passed. I am a certified ASE diesel technician and they spent at least 3 months of 20 hours a week on each topic explaining why the engineers designed the things they did the way they did. Whether it was the trans/fuel system/engine/brakes/suspension and oh lord the electronics. So don't stroke your tip to hard buddy. But this was a solid and easy to understand video, good job.
I have also been shifting without a clutch for decades. I would put quick firm pressure on the sifter under full throttle and wait for it to fall into the next gear.I wouldn't slam it but wait the short time it would take for it to do it on it's own. I hope I wasn't hurting anything too much. Nice in depth video. I liked it a lot. Keep them up. Good info.
it's good to see a video proving that clutch less shifting dose not put extra force that causes extra wear on the gearbox when the shift is preformed fast . I think the most common reason for people to believe that clutch less causes damage is they shift slowly like they are used to being able to get away with when slipping the clutch out very slowly which is slowly allowing the torque to be re-applied to the gearbox but when you do this without the clutch the rear wheel if forcing the gears to turn at a constant rate to be synced with the rpm of the rear wheel so by slowly engaging the next gear the dogs are hitting into each other and there is a constant torque being applied to the transmission via the spinning rear wheel both are bad things for your gearbox.
I have been shifting without the clutch since the 70's with zero issues.
+tonypybus Ya, I've never had a bike with problems either.
+Opferman Motors Dirtbiking appreciate the video, im new to dirt bikes and enjoy the lecture.
Opferman Motors Dirtbiking is it possible to make a clear crank case to see what it looks like inside? Don't respond if this is a waste of time
I was extremly suprised when I saw how many people using clutch to shift gears. I mean, I know you don't need to do that since I'm 4 years old...
The Husky Rider yea, look at Ducati bikes they have clear clutch covers as they have dry clutches.
Almost fell a sleep from that much sweet talking 😄😴
Without question, hands down, the best, most informative UA-cam video I think I've ever seen! Not to mention 100% true. Thanks to the uploader. Brilliant explanation and video.
Thanks!
I made it through about 2 minutes of this video before I had to subscribe. Your rules of engagement should be applied to more than just dirt bike theory. Very thorough video sir!
Agree 100% on the rules of engagement! They negate words of idiots. They might just prevent 80% of brainless idiots from responding!!
I was always taught to always use a clutch when shifting, which is fine, I did a 100mile enduro race (6hrs) and my clutch hand was getting tired and was getting lazy, and then I realized I didn’t need the clutch to shift at all!! Saved my hands “energy” to slip the clutch for certain situations!!
You're absolutely right. No dispute from me. I wish this controversy would just stop. All it takes is one goofball to make a claim to hide his operator error or the guy that put his trans together wrong and it starts all over again. Transmissions may not last forever anyway depending on how you use it. The act of shifting without a clutch is NOT the root cause.
Knowing this will save my left hand and wrist in long trips! Thanks!
I dont understand why this video even had to be posted. Its such a easy concept to understand. If you use your clutch to shift you just wont wear down your transmission as fast in comparison to if you just power shift. Some people claim that they can power shift at the perfect RPM, which is all cool and all but each bike is obviously different. I rode bikes where the responsiveness was so slow that I had to power shift just to keep power. But for the sake of generally speaking, basically for all motorcycles, be a gentleman and use the clutch. Except if your riding a Ducati. Dont use it, makes a cool sound lol.
i almost never use the clutch unless stopping or starting, tight corners in the woods...and to build rpms, other than that, not much at all. Never any issues! good video
I think a lot of people think that a dirt bike trans works just like a cars trans. The problem when speed shifting in a car, is all of the gears aren't traveling at the same speed. This means that synchros are required. When you speed shift in a car, there's a small moment when the load of the vehicle is on the synchro. Of course the synchro wasn't designed for this so they wear out thus creating problems. The difference in a dirt bike trans. It's a constant mesh setup. Meaning all gears are moving at the same speed as each other. No synchro required. This is why you just have to blip The throttle. Instead of trying to match rpms. The load now falls on the gears. The gears that are designed to take load. Speed shifting is no different then letting the clutch out. To the people saying "your wearing your friction plates!" You can and should replace those dummy!
I agree completely. The clutch merely allows the user to transmit power from the engine to the gearbox at a controlled rate.
the best reason for neutral being between 1st and 2nd is really simple, you are always in gear, this is very helpful with high speed, enduro, motocross riding because you have to try to get it in neutral, i have ridden my neighbors pit bike a few times and his in all up gear ratio and when i go to a hill climb and dump the clutch to go up the hill i find myself in neutral, compared to my motocross (standard) gear ratio i would have been in first.
Good video man. Used this video to convince my sister to stop using her clutch. Every time you pull that clutch and let it slip you dirty your oil. "Challenge Four" Run your bike wide open in top gear pull in your clutch and shift into first and see what happens. (Not recommended)
owning and riding bikes since i was around 5 years old my dad was very set on using the clutch. ive been riding for years now and i feel like its abuse to my machine to dry shift. all my friends tell me its ok. great video from a mechanic who has tore into a gearbox or two. ill never be a pro so i guess ill be pulling in every shift because "dad says so". i totally see your point though
Clutchless shifting makes sense without synchronization. The low gear mass of the bike transmission negates the need for synchronizers. Good video explaining this concept.
Thanks!
i think that's a good and deep explanation from Mr. Opferman, i personnaly ride off road for 25 years, enduro/trails and motocross too, i'm no great driver, but i never upshift with clutch, and very rarely downshifting with clutch, i had 8 bikes from different makes, and never had any problem with the gearbox. you just don't shift like an idiot,under power,and do it snappy - exactlly as Mr. Opferman says. and in the right driving speed. never had any chips/sludge in the gear oil ( in 2 stroke bikes )...
Very good job on the video, I've been trying to convince one of my friends for years that there is no need to clutch when shifting. Unfortunately, much like many of the people commenting, he has little respect for evidence and instead insists that his clutch is a magical being.
i shift with a clutch but i am interested in not doing so. Thanks for the video. I enjoyed the video, thanks.
+smallenginedude71 Thanks, glad you enjoyed it!
the way I see it is, clutch less shifting is the same as using a quick shifter. it cuts power to the motor for a split second so the transmission doesn't have much load on it. thus, allowing the transmission to shift. love the vid. learned alot of new things about motorcycle transmissions. thanks!
So... im a young,dumb,teenager and this is what im getting so far.
You don't need clutch to shift
BUT you have to cut throttle down
And another thing separate is that the gearbox is connected directly to the tire but the gearbox is translated to the engine through the clutch (the gearbox is separated from the engine by the clutch to phraseiy in a different way)
Please tell me if im messing anything up
Dear comments section;
“Get to the point, ur wasting my time. Kan u shift witout clutch?”
This whole video is the point. You think engines, transmissions, and clutches are easy to explain? Even to those completely foreign to the topic? He answered it all. So if you’re looking for a cheap, clickbait video of a guy saying “yep you can do it” without any proof or statistical evidence, look somewhere else.
man, I'm kinda glad I have a four stroke for one of the points you made in this video; the one about running the bike (2 stroke) low on lubricant because of letting off the throttle without using the clutch and allowing the drive shaft to force the engine to run at a higher rpm than the gas is set to. In a four stroke I don't have to worry about this because the oil isn't moved the same as in a two stroke. Good thing too because I use compression braking A TON on my bike. It's sooo much easier for me to let the bike slow me down on a steep decline than trying to work the front AND the super touchy back brake.
But you do have the problem on a hill climb the oil goes to the back of the transmission and is not lubricating the cylinder as it should. A 2 stroke has the oil mixed in with the gas. (unless there is an oil pump of some sort, which at least older 4 strokes do not have).
In the first minute I knew I was going to like you! I read some of the comments below and all I saw was people arguing for the sake of arguing. You make a valid technical point about the impact or no impact a clutch has on shifting and half these idiots lose their crap on riding style and comfort.🤦🏻♂️ completely missed the point, took a puff of their electric sigaret, tied a manbun and started disagreeing because it makes them sound intelligent. Don’t you just love it when you absolutely win a debate and the comeback is: “Yea but...” followed by irrelevant diversion jargon.
Reading the comments one can easily see real bikers with real world experience vs people who needs a little more time in the saddle and a little less time on the keyboard.
lol.
What's a clutch? I just pin the bike slam the gear shoot some roost and continue to send it all the way to your girlfriend's house.
Lmfao that’s great
Same here and i’ve never had an issue 😂
Straight lyke dat!😂
His girlfriends face
Transmission is always spinning if the rear wheel is moving. It's directly connected. This is why it's harder to push your bike with just the clutch pulled in than if it were in neutral because neutral disengages the input shaft
Thank you for the in depth video, I was taught how to drive a car, semi truck, and ride a motorcycle without using a clutch to upshift and downshift. I have never damaged a tranny on a dirtbike and trying to explain to people how it works is so difficult. now I have a great reference to send to them.
Oh crap! I've been doing it wrong since the 70's. Pretty much never used the clutch on dirt bikes once moving. Heck, lot's times just stomped it into first to go. (Open bikes will do that.) The Euro bikes seemed a little happier at clutchless shifts. Especially Maicos in the 70's. Even my 91 Yamaha FJ1200 is perfectly happy without the clutch from 2nd to 5th. And it's got 69,000 miles on it.
I guess I wasn't smart enough to know it was wrong so I never have broken a tranny. I have rebuilt a few gearboxes for other people but it wasn't from clutchless shifting in normal use.
Of course there are factors. Close ratio boxes work better than wide. There is a bit of throttle finesse technique required. Stuff like that.
It's not rocket surgery people. There's no magic in a tranny. They are overbuilt enough to take it.
Just go have fun instead of talking.
FACT: Shifter karts DON'T use the clutch AT ALL when upshifting and downshifting, and they use Honda 1999 CR125 engines. Funny how in a sport where NOBODY uses the clutch there's not this "clutch debate".
I have a question about my current dirtbike, a SX125 from 2002. I have transmission problems which is that the gears sometimes jump out of gear right after shifting, happens most often from first gear to second but can also happen when shifting down. One time when I shifted from 5'th gear to 4'th but it turned to neutral for almost a whole second then the 4'th gear popped in there so the gearbox made a slamming sound (
When I was 22 I drove a 1967 Cougar XR7 GT from Los Angeles to Seattle with a broken pressure plate fork meaning the clutch would not disengage, this was after I lost a cylinder due to a faulty valve keeper so I dropped the intake valve and it munched the piston but did not break the water jacket. I cut the rod journal off and put only it on the crank to maintain oil pressure and side load from the other cylinder rod on the same journal, sealed the intake port with a piece of aluminum beer can and some high heat RTV. The clutch broke when I was test driving it in Costa Mesa. I simply started it in gear from every stop and using throttle/shift coordination never had any issues. Fortunately I had few stops on I5 with 7 cylinders with AC running even. I am now one who has driven 1200 miles with no clutch and a cylinder completely missing with no piston or rod, NOT a vibration free drive but at some speeds I could minimize it.
Before the above, by the age of 12 I was doing clutch-less shifts on motorcycles to do any competitive riding since you lose time otherwise. This came in handy the few times when I broke a clutch cable far from Camp, to start I had to use a rolling start before shifting into 1st.
thank you! everyone tells me never clutches shift because it's not good for the bike but I keep saying it makes virtually no different but friction in the clutch but yet nobody believes me and I have wanted to show them a motorcycle transmission to prove them wrong although I still use clutch when shifting because it's a habit I've had since before I knew anything mechanically when I learned how to ride at a younger age
The clutch is a tool, you use it how you see fit. Yes, the gears are still moving while the clutch is "disengaged", but if you leave the clutch engaged the power from the engine will transfer through the clutch and into the gears completely. If you "disengage" the clutch, the clutch can slip when the pieces "smash" together. Yes, letting go of the throttle can minimize that "banging", but the engine is still spinning even though you're not giving it any gas, so when they do "bang" together, the engine is adding to that force (yes the clutch can still slip when fully engaged but it still takes more force to get it to slip). The clutch will minimize the rotational force of your engine from reaching your gears when shifting between them. Do/will I use the clutch when I shift? Only if I'm skipping gears or downshifting. Otherwise, the clutch is needed when you're going into first, braking, and when you're trail riding ( or doing crazy shit!). The clutch is still a vital component to bikes for those of you wondering why you even need a clutch, but it's purpose from a car's clutch varies a bit.
Thank you for helping me understand how the transmission works. That was one of the main road block i was experiencing when understanding engines on my own
thanks for taking the time to put this together and to show the evidence backing your assertion.
Ive been riding bikes for nearly 100000 years, and i have learned that proper shifting does not require the clutch regardless of shifting up or down. All you need to do is sycronized the rpms of the forks and there heat of the chain into a synthetic harmony. Then, sport bikes will snort good race mesh.
I'm 62 yrs old. Been riding since 14. I've been shifting without the clutch the whole time. Never had one issue. I'm pretty sure anyone who rides aggressively figured out quick that the clutch is a waste of time and energy when racing. Great video... Case closed!
Lets take into consideration that millions of 18 speed transmission drivers of big rigs and heavy trucks shift without the clutch daily. Just think of how they shift 18 gears after every stop light, most experienced drivers DO NOT double shift every gear. When taking a road test for the class 3 (BC, Canada) commercial weight vehicle with air-brakes they ask that you shift by double clutching and shift without clutching to show you are capable of both. Why would they be asking you to fuck up your very expensive commercial vehicle. It works the same way but commercial vehicles are under a much greater load and much higher RPM's meaning it would be more dangerous would it not and result in more damage to the gears. You can most definitely grind gears untrained for sure. But as long as you're not forcing it when grinding gears there's no problem. Lay off the pressure adjust RPM with the gas and it pops into gear. If this indeed causes unforgiving wear and tear to the gears, then why would professional drivers who get paid solely on driving destination to destination shift without clutching, damaging their only source of income. Resulting in most cases paying for the parts and servicing that are damaged out of their own pockets not only for all the labour and parts but also not being on the road hence losing thousands of dollars. They cannot risk it. As long as you RPM match and shift appropriately you cause no more damage to the gears with or without the clutch.
CNDA_TheEhTeam correction, semi trucks change gears at about 2000ish rpm's. they revolve much slower than motorcycles.
My apologies, you are correct. I forgot the tachometer was measured in x100 not x1000.
No apologies needed, im just thankful you didnt blow my fawkin head off for offering information!
I "blip " the throttle during up shifts on my 86 CR500 with a Barnett clutch and have been since 98
I run VP C-14 and the only thing stock is the frame. I think you're video is pretty accurate and well done. Subscribing
No clutch works for me on dirt bikes except when setting off. Had different experiences on road based machines , usually no probs going up the box but going down can be tricky if revs aren't right.
The only problem I have is you didn't talk about riding experience. I truly believe that inexperienced riders that try clutchless shifting, kill shift forks. I've seen it many times on dirt bikes, atvs, and motorcycles. It's easy for a pro to shift without clutching, but for a beginner they can do some damage.
This is a fantastic video if you're like me and just have never encountered a problem but want to brush up on it just in case. This alleviated my curiosity on why my bike sometimes is hard to put into first gear at a dead stop with clutch pulled. Gear dogs aren't able to slide in! Makes so much sense because It goes in easier by releasing the clutch a tiny bit to get the clutch basket turning to spin the gear for the gear dogs to engage.
I use my clutch no matter what I feel like I get more power out of my engine faster and can control it easier. I wish you could make a video showing how you purchase and import a maico dirtbike.
I completely agree. In the 70’s when I raced I rarely used my clutch. It was only used for coming to a stop or getting ready to launch. Most times I did use it in the corners but never on the straights, going into sweepers jumps rarely ever & I never had a trans failure.
I think what people mean about not wearing out as quickly is that the transmission won't be accelerating when under engine power, yes it's still under rear wheel power, but it won't be accelerating. Also pulling the clutch sets you keep on the gas to make it so the power applied is less without losing rpm. Then slipping the clutch would apply the power/acceleration gradually back to the gears. Again, yes it is still under power from the rear wheel.
I do believe that using no technique and shifting under acceleration with a big clunk would wear it out quicker than pulling the clutch, retaining engine rpm, then gradually applying power with the clutch.
Shifting properly without clutch is done by letting off the rpm and timing the shift so the power between the wheels and the engine is balanced so there is no torque on the engine.
That requires you to let off the throttle, so if you can get rid of torque on the gears and shift by simply pulling in the clutch and retaining the rpm.
I think both of us are right. I use the clutch because I want to be able to retain rpm in the right trails because it is much easier to bog and sometimes very hard to increase the Rpms.
ive been riding since I was 14, im 41 now. ive had 2 strokes I only ride 4 strokes now days. im a pretty damn good mechanic but transmissions are all magic to me. ive never had trany go out on me. I would say about 75% of the time I do not use my clutch. if im ripping hard and trying to top out as quickly as possible, the clutch is an extra unnecessary motion period. I do let off or "blip" the throttle. not one time ever on any bike ive had have I heard any banging or grinding. the clutch is primarily there to get you moving from a stand still after that, use it, dont use it it shifts exactly the same as long as youre not a complete idiot. and again in 27 years ive never had a trany go out.
smoke2275 well said. always need to use clutch going down gears
will 88 yes thats called rev matching..keeps your fly wheel and clutch in good shape
you will round dogs on the gear quicker without clutch, resulting in jumping out of gear under heavy load.If you got the money Fire Away.
@@udubidub you're the only one that put the f****** fax to it
Poor guy literally proves everything and shows you mechanically why you can shift without the clutch and yet the 'clutch or bust' armchair experts are defending their flat earther theories.
Its called a counter shaft and the “shifter cam” is called a shift drum! No pro motocrosser uses the clutch to shift. Drag bikes use air shifters that slam the shifter without a clutch. The shift button also kills the ignition for a split second which is enough to take the load off the gears. You can let off the throttle and shift without the clutch which also takes enough load off.
Awesome video! I learned quite a bit just from this, I appreciate the work put in. It's good to know because a lot of people seem confused or think if you don't pull in the clutch, you're automatically damaging the gears, which seems wayy off after watching this lol. Myself, I don't normally pull in the clutch unless I have to, like using the back brakes (to prevent stalling) or to keep rpms high enough coming in and out of corners, or at the start of a race (obviously). Thanks again!
Thanks!
What if the gear dogs see a cat while shifting without the clutch - could that cause a problem? :-) Great video by the way.
+Mark Gunnison Haha Thanks! Ya, have to have the dog gears on a leash!
Mark Gunnison I love your slick "I just burned you" profile pic. Man we could be friends
Opferman Motors Dirtbiking hey man I got a brand new bike, yamaha r3 and I accidently stepped on the shifter instead of the peg and slammed it into first with no clutch from a stop I was at idle, the bike lurched forward and stalled with a loud clunk, how much damage do you think I did? please respond to my email so I can read what you say, leonardpolistina@gmail.com
Len 1 n
I could imagine this guy stalling his bike and simply getting off of it and never touching it again because he thought it was broken *LMAO*
You are 100% on point, I watched this video from a link "the workshop channel (pony power)" this guy is out to lunch! I've been riding bikes from the age of 7, on the street since 1984 and I never use a clutch and I have never had trans problems, the speed between ascending gears are not whizzing buy each other as he states not to mention there is dwell between the dogs.
Haha, thanks!
No I don’t use my clutch half the time but the gears aren’t what gets broke from shifting without the clutch. The biggest problem would most definitely be bent shift forks( which will make the gear jump out) or worn shift drum- been there done that!
Plus ! You make your clutch cable last longer !
The whole idea of gear dog's and dog clutchs is that it can be shifted under power.
This is how sequential racing car transmissions are designed to be used.
If it were a syncromesh transmission then the clutch needs to be used to prevent syncro wear and allow proper engagement.
Shifting with the use of the clutch has likely destroyed more motorcycle transmissions than shifting without. It depends more on how you use the throttle. Speed shifting by using the clutch can destroy certain motorcycle transmissions rather quickly.
I think the main reason of that myth is because people think that bikes use synchros in their transmissions (like a car transmission) that allow smooth engage/disengage and allow both gears to sync their speeds.
+Groupwar NA Ya, dirt bike transmission is not that sophisticated.
Im rebuilding my first 2-stroke and i found this very informative! Thank you! having a better understanding of how things work will help me assess wear and need for replacement parts. Cheers!
I'm new to dirt-biking and watched your video because I'd like to find out more information about how shifting works. This was very informative. However, I have two questions. 1) Why then do we have a clutch? Is it solely to go from parked to moving? 2) Does clutchless downshifting hurt the transmission?
I can tell you the answers to your questions based on my 2 or so years of experience riding my bike. I believe we have clutches not only for starting from a stop, but also to allow us to put on the power just right to tackle some pretty difficult terrain. I'll explain: Say you are riding a trail and you come to a step or a log in the trail that if you just hit it straight on with your tire it would flip you because it is taller than half way up your front tire. How do you get over that thing? Well, you wheelie a bit performing what is called a splatter. The first tire that hits the log if done correctly is actually your rear tire and voila you are over the obstacle. I have tried many times to wheelie without use of the clutch and found it to be extremely difficult because of a lack of power. And answer 2: clutchless downshifting may hurt the transmission more than using a clutch depending on the technique or lack thereof that is used to downshift. A blip on the throttle that's just right, or a blip that is too much basically dictates if it hurts the tranny. It's a bit difficult to reduce torque on the transmission with throttle alone for a downshift which is why using the clutch for a downshift is never a bad idea. I usually use the clutch as well as a blip on the throttle to rev match for a buttery smooth shift.
if you shift in to a insanly low gear like fourth to first but as long as your not jumping two three gears it will be fine and you can use the clutch to work the power kinda
Benjamin Stone As you get more experience on a dirt bike you will find the clutch is a tool to be used in conjunction with the throttle to control the torque of the engine. You are probably on a four-stroke so this will sound foreign but on a two-stroke you have to slip the clutch to get the engine rpm into the power band quicker. There's alot of technique that applies to both engine types such as slipping/feathering the clutch to prevent a stall in a high climb, or slipping the clutch on a muddy day to depower the bike so you can maintain traction.
Of my 14 years of riding I spent 7 of them not realizing the importance of the clutch. It wasn't until I started riding two strokes and big bore four strokes that I had to learn how to depower a bike in slick conditions and how to ring the neck of a two stroke to keep it in the power band as often as possible. So don't worry the day will come when you lay the bike over, break off the clutch lever, and have to relearn to ride without it to get home.
miceeno well said
I don't see how this is still a debate in 2017. There is simply not enough rotating mass in these little constant mesh boxes to require clutching between shifts.
Some of my bikes (Jawa and CZ 2 strokes) have a slick shifter mechanism installed as OEM equipment, so the clutch pops in and out whenever the gear shift lever is moved. Not clutchless shifting at all but to people watching it appears to be.
The same system was licenced by Honda from Jawa for use on the famous Cub series and on the Honda 250 & 360 automatics.
Triumph also installed a slick shifter on the Bonneville for 1963 only.
with a slick shifter, it is possible to hold the clutch in and even slip it to pull away using only the gear shift lever. Kind of freaks people out at traffic lights pulling away with my left hand off the clutch lever and the lever moving on its own.
Also extremely hand for when a clutch cable breaks whilst out riding.
On the downside they do take some expertise and experience to set up just right as installing a new cable also means having to align the clutch drag (on the pushrod adjuster) for the slick shifter cam arm and the cable pull. Getting it wrong can mean that the clutch drags when stationary in gear unless the gear lever is held up or down. The other extreme is the slick shifter doesn't pull the clutch in cleanly and the bar lever also has to be pulled in too.
When set up just right they allow for easy cog swapping, less left hand ache in heavy slow town traffic and higher tension clutch springs to be used, if the engine has been tuned up.
Jawa and CZ 2 stroke road bikes and trail bikes seem to be unique as they feature 2 neutrals, one between 1st and 2nd gears and one between 3rd and 4th gears for long fast downhill coasting. The owners manual advises to not use fast prolonged engine braking for more than a kilometre downhill, hence the extra neutral.
Gear shift patterns can be changed from 1 down 3 up to 1 up 3 down by changing a $30 gear fork guide plate. I prefer the inverted shift pattern as it is impossible to find a false neutral when accelerating up through the gears.
interesting! ive never had a bike trany apart (i never use the clutch to shift has never given me any problems) but i have had many truck transmisions apart and you cant shift without using the clutch unless you rev match because they use sliding clutches to engage gears to the mainshaft and it is spinning at such different speeds that the sliding clutches cant engage unless you rev match because the are tappered and get spit out. this video has answered a question ive had a long time wich is why can you shift a bike without the clutch and without rev matching its because the gears directly connect using the gear dogs wich are square cut not tappered. very good video!
Thanks, glad you enjoyed it!
I've always shifted up without the clutch. Backing off the gas or interrupting the ignition with a quick shifter makes it shift a bit easier. The dogs have a ramp angle machined into the drive faces to make the gears pull together under load so taking load off makes it easier. Shifting down I only use the clutch on tar to make it a little smoother. Stops the rear wheel hopping. On dirt I don't bother. I just back off the throttle a bit to make it smoother. Electronic quick shifters are best.
I've been using the clutch ever since I've been riding, since I was taught to. I agree with what you are saying, but it's such a habit that I can't just stop using the clutch. the only way I stop using it is if I watch my hands and always keep it in my head. It's just a habit.
I'm actually not advocating for people to not use the clutch that's a matter of preference, I'm only trying to explain that without the clutch is also ok when done properly and how the transmission works. so it's good.
I always use the clutch to shift unless I'm in a situation where I would want my all my fingers on the bars.
great video it explains alot!
Toby
My question is this I rarely use a clutch from second gear on & have never had an issue
& You did a fantastic job explaining everything BUT ...
more often than not I find clutch less shifting from 1st to 2nd lands me in neutral that very scenario has caused 2nd to shatter from the shock of 7000rmp bang into 2nd my challenge to you is to show the potential for this to happen
Huh? That's clearly driver error lol. Not a mechanical one. Either you're shifting too early or aren't releasing the throttle enough.
I guess it depends more on ridding style... I use the clutch most of the time I shift because when shifting up I like to power shift and when breaking and shifting down I like to be able to tap the rear break and, if necessary, lock the rear wheel to start the slide. So I keep the clutch lever in the entire breaking time while going down the gears and controlling the bike with the breaks.
Again, it's more of a ridding style and bike control thing than a mechanical concern
I knew most of what you talking about with the dog gears and such, but the intricacies about the oiling, the affect of pulling the clutch, and the one I never thought about; Rocking the bike to change gears dry! Very good detail sir, but that leads me to some questions.
1) Slipper clutch (street bikes) - When you were talking about deceleration (23:47), the driveshaft is still causing the transmission to spin the crank at essentially an "artificial" RPM. Is this one of the main reasons for the slipper clutch? It helps mitigate wheel spin on shifting, but is the side-effect also saving the transmission in these scenarios? I imagine street bikes are different since you would be decelerating quite frequently on the street without the need to downshift before the slipper clutch was conceived.
I was a professional motocross racer. So obviously i rode alot i never shifted with a clutch never once had a transmission or clutch problem. I was not nice when i shifted either. I held it wide-open and shifted up or down.