I've been listening to this commentary subconsciously while being drunk for almost two hours while doing other stuff. It felt pleasant and didn't get me nauseous so I give it thumbs up!
I may not get much out of this flick anymore, but I can never hate it. Batman Forever met every expectation 10 year old me had. One of the best cinema experiences I've had, and you cannae beat those Seal and U2 songs
Just want to say as someone who unabashedly loves this movie, it was an absolute joy to listen to this commentary. Never thought I would learn so many new things about this movie!!! Well done guys!
Deeply enjoy these commentaries with you and Tim, Oliver! You both bring such a positivity and genuine enthusiasm to these Batman films which have been more and more ridiculed over the years. I especially like Tim’s dissection of individual scenes and thorough research to coney the level of thought and artistry that went into making Batman Forever even though most might think this was a careless extravaganza popcorn flick for the summer of ‘95 (which it was also haha). Can’t wait for you chaps to tackle Batman & Robin next!! 😂
I like the idea that the riddler is after Bruce Wayne and two face has a vendetta against Batman and the realization they're the same person is what makes their team up make sense, but ultimately one had to lose their mind and the other had to die haha
Great commentary, guys. I have a soft spot for this movie. I saw this in the cinema when I was about 8 and it blew me away. I think it gets a LOT right. I love the use of colour and lighting and I feel like the tone is right. I don't want/need to see a Batman movie that's darker than this. It's also (for the most part) actually suitable for kids. Which you can't say for later Bamtan movies. One of the biggest issues is Two Face doesn't really show any sign of having two personalities. It's itonice as they invest so much in his hideout with the split living area to represent both sides of his character.
Great commentary, I think you're both really fair on the film and can point out its pros and cons. There's a lot to like with the film and you also talk about it in the context with which it was filmed in - its place in pop culture at the time and the lens by which it was viewed through.
@Walter_the_Wobot agreed. So much more they could have done with two-face. I wasn't impressed with how they made him from a primary to a secondary bad guy. Plus it looked like he was making a fool of himself. Tommy Lee Jones deserved so much better than that.
@Walter_the_Wobot exactly, it would have been a much better film. I really would like to see the Schumacher cut of this film. It does exist but WB doesn't want to release it 😔
Growing up in NY in the 90s, loved all the references of NY and of that time. Either you did your research or you also lived or traveled to NY in those times. One thing I’ll say is, the neon, the lighting, I don’t remember NY being that colorful at night. When Dinkins left and Giuliani came in, things started to change. It was getting some what safe to be out at night. It was a transitioning period. More police presence. As a kid I loved Batman Forever but now, it’s just a glorified toy commercial. Even if that wasn’t the intention. Also the gay undertones are also there as well. Loved the review and I hope you guys do a Eyes wide shut one, so you can have more New York references.
The biggest issue story wise with Forever, even by comic book standards, is the timeline of the Edward character: - He goes from an unknown to a power player as his entrepreneur self in what looks like 3 days. - He has a factory island built in about a week. - He apparently has flooded the city with his device in about 5 days even though he announces it when he is essentially announcing the opening of the factory. - All of this in what amounts to, at most 2-3 weeks. I get what they were trying to do but rather than organically building the character they knew where they wanted the character to end up but not how to get there, so they rushed him beyond logic. Even with suspension of disbelief the speed at which that character was "developed", if that word can be used at all, was ridiculous.
BATMAN 1 : THE MYSTERY OF BATMAN BATMAN RETURNS : THE PSYCHOLOGY OF BATMAN BATMAN FORVER : THE DUOLOGY OF BATMAN BATMAN AND ROBIN : THE HEROISM AND NECESSITY OF BATMAN I WANT A BATMAN 5 : BATMAN TRIUMPHANT FOR GEORGE CLOONEY AND ALICIA AND CHRIS AND A BATMAN 3 FOR MIKE KEATON AND BURTON
Val Kilmer’s Bruce Wayne is underrated. His Batman on the other hand is just okay especially compared to George Clooney’s horrendous interpretation. I like the scenes between Bruce and Dick and how they parallel each others trauma. Jim Carrey is having fun while also being entertaining to watch. I like this movie more than Reeves’s The Batman (I said it). While not perfect, it’s a fun watch in parts.
What a great commentary. I’m discovering so many things I didn’t know before. This film in hindsight gets a lot of flack and some deservedly so. But, the summer of 95 was bat-mania. Similar to 89 but not as much. The driving of the Batmobile up the side of the building was cringey. Even shots could be fired at Batman Begins for its rooftop scene. This was also around the time of heavy commercialization between merchandising and film. Which really is still a thing but soundtracks to film was a much bigger component. I’ll still say this is probably my favorite version of the cowl as a evolution from the 89 one.
The bat-mobile going up the side of the building was a nod to the 60's TV show where Batman goes up the sides of buildings talking to the people living in them.
Here’s the problem with Robin: Batman wants to remain in the shadows, a wraith-like monster that terrorises criminals. Robin on the other hand is the antithesis of all of that. A loud, brash, colourful kid. It undoes all that Batman is trying to accomplish. Bruce Wayne trained for years with the best martial artists perfecting his skills before suiting up. Robin just chucks a suit on with no preparedness. Again, it undermines the realism I think we all see in Batman. And finally, Robin was created as a cynical marketing ploy to sell more comics by appealing to the little boys who read the comics in the 1940’s. They thought the little boys would imagine themselves as Robin accompanying Batman in his adventures. In actuality, all little boys want to be grown ups, they crave the power and coolness of being Batman.
It would be great if you redid your Alien commentaries. Those were some of your best ones. It's a shame they were taken down. Also since Dragonslayer is finally out on 4K it would be cool to see you do that one. Great film that has a solid story about growing up as well as being one of the best fantasy films of the 80's. Certainly better than stuff like Willow and certainly better than anything Disney has made in a long time.
If you look at the comic books from the 90's and the 80's and especially the 40's and early 50's, Forever looks so much like them. I do not understand anyone calling this a cartoon. There's fantastic lighting and photography. Look at the detail, soak in the visual metaphors. The undercurrent of trauma and oppression. The light shining from the darkness. A darkness that is so powerful and scary, that we all experience. These characters want to be seen for who they are. This is a beautiful film. Art deco, Gothic. Greek theater. Gods and monsters.
Year One is not the only Batman thing from the 80's. I get that its extremely grounded approach appeals to some, but to me it's entirely too real and loses all of the things that makes the world of comics and heroes fun at all.
I always hated this movie, even when it came as a 13 year old. It was too goofy and silly. The tone was too different from the Burton films. I never liked the silly tone. It has nothing in common with the previous films.
Saw this in theaters as a kid. I was so upset when I saw Michael Keaton on the cover of Parade with the story that he dropped out of the Batman role. The movie didn't do much for me then, and I find it unwatchable now. I couldn't even play it for my children.
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
“With Batman Forever, I felt like i was making a movie.
With Batman and Robin, I felt like I was making a toy commercial.”
- Chris O Donnel
Hard to believe he’s the only one of the main cast to star in both.
A lot of deleted scenes in Batman Forever are really good and would have made the movie better, had there been an extended cut
@@VenusHeadTrap2 The only one? You are forgetting Michael Gough.
@@patfer1189 And Pat Hingle
I've been listening to this commentary subconsciously while being drunk for almost two hours while doing other stuff. It felt pleasant and didn't get me nauseous so I give it thumbs up!
The best thing to come out of this movie was Seal’s Kiss From A Rose
I’m 30 mins in and this is already my favorite commentary of yours that I’ve heard in years! Batman FOREVER
I may not get much out of this flick anymore, but I can never hate it. Batman Forever met every expectation 10 year old me had. One of the best cinema experiences I've had, and you cannae beat those Seal and U2 songs
Just want to say as someone who unabashedly loves this movie, it was an absolute joy to listen to this commentary. Never thought I would learn so many new things about this movie!!! Well done guys!
Deeply enjoy these commentaries with you and Tim, Oliver! You both bring such a positivity and genuine enthusiasm to these Batman films which have been more and more ridiculed over the years. I especially like Tim’s dissection of individual scenes and thorough research to coney the level of thought and artistry that went into making Batman Forever even though most might think this was a careless extravaganza popcorn flick for the summer of ‘95 (which it was also haha). Can’t wait for you chaps to tackle Batman & Robin next!! 😂
Let's start this party with a bang
Yep.
Spank me!
Joyyyygasm
I like the idea that the riddler is after Bruce Wayne and two face has a vendetta against Batman and the realization they're the same person is what makes their team up make sense, but ultimately one had to lose their mind and the other had to die haha
"I cannot sanction your buffonery." - Tommy Lee Jones to Jim Carrey
Great commentary, guys. I have a soft spot for this movie. I saw this in the cinema when I was about 8 and it blew me away. I think it gets a LOT right. I love the use of colour and lighting and I feel like the tone is right. I don't want/need to see a Batman movie that's darker than this. It's also (for the most part) actually suitable for kids. Which you can't say for later Bamtan movies. One of the biggest issues is Two Face doesn't really show any sign of having two personalities. It's itonice as they invest so much in his hideout with the split living area to represent both sides of his character.
Wow! Great to hear some positivity about what is and always will be my favorite Batman film! Subscribing now.
Great commentary, I think you're both really fair on the film and can point out its pros and cons. There's a lot to like with the film and you also talk about it in the context with which it was filmed in - its place in pop culture at the time and the lens by which it was viewed through.
I just realised something. This Riddler idolises Bruce Wayne; Matt Reeves’ Riddler idolises Batman. Both Riddlers are obsessed with the same man.😊
Batman was a Nicholson-Joker movie. Batman Returns was a Penguin movie. Batman Forever was a Batman movie. Batman and Robin was pure garbage
Batman Forever is a little overstuffed. Personally i would have dropped Robin from the story and developed Two-Face’s character more.
@Walter_the_Wobot agreed. So much more they could have done with two-face. I wasn't impressed with how they made him from a primary to a secondary bad guy. Plus it looked like he was making a fool of himself. Tommy Lee Jones deserved so much better than that.
@@--Fish He was just a plot device trying to outdo Jim Carry. He should have played it dark, straight, and extremely menacing.
@Walter_the_Wobot exactly, it would have been a much better film. I really would like to see the Schumacher cut of this film. It does exist but WB doesn't want to release it 😔
Batman Forever was a Jim Carrey movie
1:35:50 I think that TF flips the coin once for each person in the room, Bruce, Chase, and Alfred?
Growing up in NY in the 90s, loved all the references of NY and of that time. Either you did your research or you also lived or traveled to NY in those times. One thing I’ll say is, the neon, the lighting, I don’t remember NY being that colorful at night. When Dinkins left and Giuliani came in, things started to change. It was getting some what safe to be out at night. It was a transitioning period. More police presence. As a kid I loved Batman Forever but now, it’s just a glorified toy commercial. Even if that wasn’t the intention. Also the gay undertones are also there as well. Loved the review and I hope you guys do a Eyes wide shut one, so you can have more New York references.
Love Batman Forever 🔥
It’s decent but Batman 1989 and Batman Returns with Tim. Burton can’t be topped tho.
@@chasehedges6775 i’d love to watch a this movie with elfman’s music and burton’s batmobile and gothic gotham city
Forever is better than returns
@@cosmicironyproductions5087Story is better in Forever. But not the music or production design
I prefer Goldenthal over Elfmans it's more memorable but each to their own
Val Kilmer was a pretty good Batman and Bruce Wayne.
I agree with that
I found him a bit dull as Bruce Wayne. But he looked good, both as Bruce and Batman.
I saw this at the cinema in 1995. It was well-received at the time. It was after Batman And Robin that the backlash started.
"Tommy Lee Jones in Batman Forever was not Two Face, but One Face"
--- Kevin Smith
The biggest issue story wise with Forever, even by comic book standards, is the timeline of the Edward character:
- He goes from an unknown to a power player as his entrepreneur self in what looks like 3 days.
- He has a factory island built in about a week.
- He apparently has flooded the city with his device in about 5 days even though he announces it when he is essentially announcing the opening of the factory.
- All of this in what amounts to, at most 2-3 weeks.
I get what they were trying to do but rather than organically building the character they knew where they wanted the character to end up but not how to get there, so they rushed him beyond logic. Even with suspension of disbelief the speed at which that character was "developed", if that word can be used at all, was ridiculous.
Completely agree! You'd think JJ Abrams was involved... :\
@@PetersonZF Ha! Keen observation. Forgot he does that too.
Agreed. _This_ is buffoonery we cannot sanction
BATMAN 1 : THE MYSTERY OF BATMAN
BATMAN RETURNS : THE PSYCHOLOGY OF BATMAN
BATMAN FORVER : THE DUOLOGY OF BATMAN
BATMAN AND ROBIN : THE HEROISM AND NECESSITY OF BATMAN
I WANT A BATMAN 5 : BATMAN TRIUMPHANT FOR GEORGE CLOONEY AND ALICIA AND CHRIS
AND
A BATMAN 3 FOR MIKE KEATON AND BURTON
Breathe Tim....
Batman Forever is up there with the best Batman movies ever made
Val Kilmer’s Bruce Wayne is underrated. His Batman on the other hand is just okay especially compared to George Clooney’s horrendous interpretation. I like the scenes between Bruce and Dick and how they parallel each others trauma.
Jim Carrey is having fun while also being entertaining to watch. I like this movie more than Reeves’s The Batman (I said it). While not perfect, it’s a fun watch in parts.
I WANT BATMAN AND ROBIN AND BATMAN FOREVER EXTENDED CUTS!
If the Bat wants to play we’ll play!!
Love the "superhero stuff you should know" shout-out, those guys are awesome👍
I had a blast with this movie, it's an audio-visual treat with good action, the only thing that kinda bothered me were the garish colors.
What a great commentary. I’m discovering so many things I didn’t know before. This film in hindsight gets a lot of flack and some deservedly so. But, the summer of 95 was bat-mania. Similar to 89 but not as much.
The driving of the Batmobile up the side of the building was cringey. Even shots could be fired at Batman Begins for its rooftop scene.
This was also around the time of heavy commercialization between merchandising and film. Which really is still a thing but soundtracks to film was a much bigger component.
I’ll still say this is probably my favorite version of the cowl as a evolution from the 89 one.
The bat-mobile going up the side of the building was a nod to the 60's TV show where Batman goes up the sides of buildings talking to the people living in them.
Here’s the problem with Robin:
Batman wants to remain in the shadows, a wraith-like monster that terrorises criminals. Robin on the other hand is the antithesis of all of that. A loud, brash, colourful kid. It undoes all that Batman is trying to accomplish.
Bruce Wayne trained for years with the best martial artists perfecting his skills before suiting up. Robin just chucks a suit on with no preparedness. Again, it undermines the realism I think we all see in Batman.
And finally, Robin was created as a cynical marketing ploy to sell more comics by appealing to the little boys who read the comics in the 1940’s. They thought the little boys would imagine themselves as Robin accompanying Batman in his adventures. In actuality, all little boys want to be grown ups, they crave the power and coolness of being Batman.
Spot on
oliver pls review retro lifeforce 1985 it will be a howt, with patrick stwart b4 stng and colin firth b4 dr who
Hey Peter, I reviewed Lifeforce already! Later today I will be posting a commentary to the film. Lifeforce overload!
I mean this was the first movie where a villain breaks into the cave and destroys it. That was awesome in 1995.
Good point. My nine year old self nodded in agreement then
Your always in 2 minds about everything
Joygasm! 🎉
A guilty pleasure
It would be great if you redid your Alien commentaries. Those were some of your best ones. It's a shame they were taken down. Also since Dragonslayer is finally out on 4K it would be cool to see you do that one. Great film that has a solid story about growing up as well as being one of the best fantasy films of the 80's. Certainly better than stuff like Willow and certainly better than anything Disney has made in a long time.
If you look at the comic books from the 90's and the 80's and especially the 40's and early 50's, Forever looks so much like them. I do not understand anyone calling this a cartoon. There's fantastic lighting and photography. Look at the detail, soak in the visual metaphors. The undercurrent of trauma and oppression. The light shining from the darkness. A darkness that is so powerful and scary, that we all experience. These characters want to be seen for who they are. This is a beautiful film. Art deco, Gothic. Greek theater. Gods and monsters.
Year One is not the only Batman thing from the 80's. I get that its extremely grounded approach appeals to some, but to me it's entirely too real and loses all of the things that makes the world of comics and heroes fun at all.
I always hated this movie, even when it came as a 13 year old. It was too goofy and silly. The tone was too different from the Burton films. I never liked the silly tone. It has nothing in common with the previous films.
Tim for the love of God can you let Oliver speak! You are taking over in this commentary far too much to the point where you are annoying.
Saw this in theaters as a kid. I was so upset when I saw Michael Keaton on the cover of Parade with the story that he dropped out of the Batman role. The movie didn't do much for me then, and I find it unwatchable now. I couldn't even play it for my children.
Batman Fornever