Grade 3 is stronger than Grade 4 but it is just slow as hell. As stated by Cell, Trunks could have defeated him If he weren’t slow Basically SSJ2 > Grade 3 > Mastered SSJ => Grade 2 > SSJ
@@willi898 eh if this were the case i feel like we would’ve seen goku or gohan go grade 3 the moment they were about to attack and use grade 4 for the speed advantage.
@@Arsov422 There is only one super Saiyan. 2nd and 3rd are SSJ 1 with more ki put into it to increase SSJ 1 power/attributes. A.T. stated this in an interview long ago. Fans make up power levels and multipliers to make the characters scale to outside of anime characters. We all await an official release of legit power levels and multipliers. My hair turning gray while waiting, so don't hold your breath. lol
Did he? I heard him talk about it on his 5 hour Goku video so i took some inspiration from that, its cool that he also made one and im also glad its becoming more wide spread since its a really cool attention to detail fact
Super saiyan is objectively a multiplication, if it wasnt then gokus lower kaioken forms would have been of more use in mid-end dbz with how strong they got in base.
@@RandomSkull420It does, Toriyama literally said it's not what he intended to do when caramel mama did calculations to give us SSJ and Friezas power levels.
I’m writing a fanfic and I honestly think I’d stick to these numbers because SSJ being a 500x makes some sense to why no one mastered SSJ3. Because if SSJ3 is 400x from base it would make sense to try and mostly use that form but since SSJ is actually 500x from base is already higher hence why most characters stick with just SSJ
@@ryigen83 this is obviously not true. Anyone with 2 working brain cells knows goku used kaio ken x20 in namek and wasnt able to beat 50% frieza. If ssj 1 was a 10x multiplier he would’ve had no business staying on namek and would have never beat frieza.
@@Mr_Lucas I didn't make the numbers the creator did. look it up. it's public. all you did is show how inconsistent the scaling was back in the day. dbz is a power fantasy. most calculations can be debunked by people smarter than the both of us.
@@ryigen83 where did toriyama ever state is was a 10x multiplier. And the data books are what gave us the 50x multiplier the very thing toriyama looked at and published. We seen gokus and friezas full power and the quantifiable numbers with them. 100% frieza was at a power level of 120 million and goku in ssj was at a power level of 150 million. Gokus base power level was 3 million. Db power scaling didnt have a problem until super.
There a fanfiction that does actual good job at calculating the power of Super Saiyan called Bringer of Death. Also if Vegeta fan he basically main character in it.
The scale makes sense if we assume mastering ssj isn’t a direct multiplier. For example, Vegeta and Trunks never put the effort into mastering it right? They learned how to boost the multiplier but they didn’t raise their base power enough. Goku and Gohan mastered the transformation and in the process, pushed their base power a lot higher. So the multipliers could stand but having a lower base power makes mastering ssj the better route. After the time chamber it was stated Goku and Gohan were stronger. Let’s look at some numbers lol Lets assume imperfect cell was an even 500M and let’s assume Goku’s power level when he meets trunks is around 4.5M. The androids being twice as strong as ssj Goku, puts them at 450M. 16 should be around 525M. Definitively stronger than imperfect cell. 2nd form cell being around 600M claps them. Now let’s get to our saiyans. Vegeta in grade 2 clapped 2nd form cell. If it’s about 65x base, that puts Vegeta at 9.5M base power. So far so good. This is 3 years after Goku met trunks plus the time chamber. It makes sense that Vegeta would double 4.5M at least. So far so good. Perfect Cell, I put at 800M. He got a bigger boost from 18 and now he has access to his full power. Ok, Perfect Cell stated that grade 3 trunks was stronger. Let’s look at the numbers. Trunks should be around 3M when we meet him. He wasn’t as battle hardened and experienced as our Goku or Future Gohan. 3M might be a lil generous. For his grade 3 to be higher than 800M his base needs to be at least 11M. Not impossible. He’s a half saiyan and now he’s getting some better training. Cell said you’re FAR stronger than me. Realistically, Grade 3 Trunks was around 900M putting his base at 12M. So far so good still. Goku fought Cell as MSSJ, if we assume this is still the base 50x multiplier Goku’s base needs to be around 16M to fight evenly with Perfect Cell. Now, is it reasonable? I think so. Goku’s trained with Gohan and Piccolo for 3 years. Plus the time chamber. Same as Vegeta. We can say Goku saw greater gains because: Gohan eventually got stronger than him and was able to push him AND mastering and staying ssj should provided a nice boost to his base power. So it might seem that MSSJ is a separate multiplier but it doesn’t have to be. It would make more sense to say MSSJ provides the same 50x but the process of mastering it makes your base 50% higher. Let’s look at Gohan to see if this holds up. After eating the senzu, let’s put Perfect Cell at 900M. Teen Gohan would have to be at least 18M in base power. That’s not far fetched. He was close to 1M on Namek without Goku having trained him or the time chamber. Not hard to imagine Gohan, with his potential getting this strong. Trunks had a similar jump. We can pinpoint it more if we jump ahead. Gohan vanquished SPC with half his strength. If we assume SPC is roughly 1.2B, Gohan coulda been around 1.4B and beat him. Giving us 2.8B ss2 Teen Gohan with a base of 28 million. He coulda been as low as 18M without MSSJ to boost his base. This means without him mastering ssj, even if he went ss2, once Cell broke his arm he woulda been dead. Mastering ssj gave him that little extra to be able to pull it off. Gohan 28M Goku 16M Trunks 12M Vegeta 9.5M-12M Vegeta didn’t use grade 3 because of the speed issues. Him and trunks coulda been even as far we know. These numbers make it all work without adding shyt like rage boost and domination and without contradicting the multipliers and keeping MSSJ as a regular 50x amp. Sorry for the essay lol also see why golden Frieza clappin these boys lol
Actually tomination multipliers work really well and have been working thoroughly.. since the namek saga. Otherwise? How is it that Vegeta was beating regular zarbon at 23,000 when his power was only 24,000 if anything they work much better at high levels.. I must thank you tho. Most people put ridiculous highball levels in the hundreds of billions and trillions by ssj2. Thrilled that you share my thought process in this. 👍🏻 Some people are too multiplier happy 🤦🏻♂️ I just want to make one korrection the uide books put Android 17 at 390m making imperfect much higher as well as 16. That is all I wanted to add. The rest of your numbers I think our. Perfect 👌🏻
Note how Vegeta used an attack that used up all his life force energy (similar to the Shin Kikoho which allowed Tenshinhan to stall Cell) which failed vs Boo and yet Super Saiyan 3 could’ve beaten Boo 🗿 And V-Jump in 2004 states that Coola had a PL of 470,000,000 while Gogeta is 2,500,000,000; meaning V-Jump likely had way different opinions on the multipliers of Super Saiyan 2 & 3 than the Super Exciting Guides 🗿
The whole SSJ2 being 2x MSSJ is just ridiculous. That would mean that MSSJ Gohan should’ve been bodying Cell before he powered up to maximum. Here’s a small scale just to show how ridiculous it really is Cell-10 MSSJ Gohan-5 SSJ2 Gohan-10 Cell full power-at least 15 See how just doesn’t make any sense?
I’ve already seen your argument with the creator but thinking narratively cell could’ve just been that much stronger than we think. As upscaling ssj2 to a 2x boost on top of g4 would make cell scale higher in terms of his multipliers to
@@Mr_Lucas The Fact that Gohan was tanking Cells hits makes me believe that as a SSJ2 he was somewhere between 2.5-3 times stronger than Cell at full power. Was the multiplier stated before or after the Buu arc? If it was after then it makes total sense but Gohan was giving Cell the business. He couldn’t even touch him as a MSSJ and he was even stronger than Goku. I’m just lost in all that tbh
@@VonKappallot problem with this is gohan in mssj didn’t want to fight this iss kind of part of his character arc here in the cell games goku pushes him to fight even tho gohan isnt a born fighter like goku he couldn’t really push his power until unlocking ssj2 which basically flips a coin in gohans mentality letting power go to his head
@@supesisfodder7427 I’m just tryna make sense of it. Guess it’s just a waste of time huh? Considering Dragonball stopped being consistent with power scaling after the Namek arc
I've previously broken down the multipliers of grade 2, 3, and 4 of Super Saiyan on my own time. Since grade 5 is SSj2, and is a 100x base, I've calculated the previous grades to have an equal increment increase because that only makes sense. You can't go beyond what official statements say. The 2x SSj is not in reference to grade 4 ssj. It's grade 5/SSj2. Let me break down what I came up with. If we divide it up evenly, SSj grade 2 is a 12.5 point, or 25% increase from SSj1, effectively making grade 2 a 62.5x base multiplier. Since the percentage increase is the same, Grade 3 is 75x base, grade 4 is 87.5x base. And of course, grade 5, aka SSj2 is a 100x base.
Well for one, that 25 was pulled out of your ass and has no proof behind it. Secondly, as i said, guidebooks have stated that grade 3 is 10 times stronger than grade 1 but just has stamina issues, and it also states that grade 4 is stronger than all the other grades and has no defects. The 50->100->400 multipliers came from 1 guidebook and multiple others have contradicted said multipliers unless we assume ssj2 is 2 times grade 4 which makes sense since it is GRADE 5
The guidebooks are secondary at best and are only valid when their information can be verified in the source material, which isn't the case for SSJ2 and SSJ3 (on the contrary SSJ2 being 2x is blatantly contradicted by SSJ2 Gohan beating Cell with less than half his Ki left), it makes no sense for SSJ2 to be a mere 2x amp to SSJ1 when prior Grade transformations already provided larger amps. SSJ2 being a 2x amp to Regular SSJ or Grade 1 would literally make the form even weaker than Grade 3 and would only make it roughly equivalent to a Grade 2 amp, so it makes more sense that the 2x measurement is applied to FPSSJ/Grade 4 rather than to the standard Grade 1 SSJ.
The whole SSJ2 being 2x MSSJ is just ridiculous. That would mean that MSSJ Gohan should’ve been bodying Cell before he powered up to maximum. Here’s a small scale just to show how ridiculous it really is Cell-10 MSSJ Gohan-5 SSJ2 Gohan-10 Cell full power-at least 15 See how just doesn’t make any sense? If you can explain that to me it would be much appreciated
@GodVanisher I felt like Cell was that much stronger but he was just trying to get Gohan mad so he was playing with him. But I do agree that Gohan had to be at least 3-4 times stronger than Cell and at least 40-50 percent stronger than Super Perfect Cell
Ssj grade 2 is 17.5 times multiplier than the grade due to vegeta tanking a galic gun by semi perfect cell as scale Vegeta is a 1 Semi-perfect cell is a 100 (due to cell feeling comfortable against ssj vegeta Ssj vegeta is 50 Semi-perfect cell then powers up making him a 125 Semi perfect’s galic gun 437.5 ASSJ/SSJG2 vegeta is a 875
I believe that if the saiyans still had their tails then the ssj grade forms would not exist because the tail would handle balancing the energy flow within a saiyan
Nice theory but you are wrong in that MSSJ is a higher multiplier. It is still just x50 to base same as SSJ grade 1 but without any Ki lose. Because they stayed in the form as much as possible to let their bodies get use to the power. The reason they are that much more powerful than Vegeta and Trunks is because they trained with each other. Whereas Vegeta and Trunks trained separately. It's been stated many times in DB that training with someone close to your level will greatly increase how fast you grow in power. Vegeta's grade 2 SSJ is a 50% increase of grade 1 but drains ki faster. Trunks' grade 3 is equal to SSJ2 but there is a huge lost in speed and agility. As all the power if focused on pure strength. Proof is that when Gohan went SSJ2 Trunks said that Gohan did it right. Implying that what Trunks did was similar but focused his power wrong. Basically, what Vegeta and Trunks did was the same thing that Master Roshi did way back in DB. He had the same transformations where he buffed himself up to a +50% and a +100% or x2 in power.
before this I thought ssj grade 4 is just ssj but it doesn't drain power, while ssj after time becomes weaker, and ssj grade 1 and two are like 65 from 85 multipliers, but they also drain faster. In this video you claim that ssj grade 2 and 3 are waaay stronger, but with an higer powerm drain, and it makes sense, but making ssj grade 4 that strong is absurd, but could close the gap between ssj and ssjgod, because in db super it seems that ssj is till viable, but whit logic it shoudn't. however, if we take this and the fact that gok ki power (not full ssj god multiplier) was absorbed in base (not really, they still don't have god ki in base but it's a power emulation) and counting that when going ssj god the two god ki boosts don't stack, just ssjgod multipler and boost of having true god ki, the power gap and forms power scaling makes more sense
_Good video, but I have quite a few disagreements there. While El Legendario is officially licensed, this is just a Spanish translation of an already existing Japanese guidebook. The Japanese guide they translated it from mentions nothing about an x10 multiplier. So this can be ruled a translation error. Much like how the dub messed up by saying Instant Transmission is LS._ _While Grade 2 is "much stronger" than Grade 1, being much stronger in DB can range anywhere from 20% stronger to 20 times stronger, and beyond. It doesn't really mean much._ _The other Spanish guide, as far as I am aware, is not an actual officially licensed booklet. But even if it was, the SSJ multipliers would still be correct, as nothing suggests Grade 3 is 2 or more times Grade 1._ _SSJ2 being x2 is is directly in reference to Grade 1, as the arrow points directly at the same x50 Grade 1 Goku. Even if Grade 4 were to be stronger than Grade 1, that'd just mean Grade 4 is in-between 50 and 100 times._
disagreed, it clearly shows in the manga and anime the power difference between the grades. If you think that its just a 2x boost from base super saiyan then you would also be agreeing with the fact grade 2 is the same strength as mastered which is definitely false
@@zerocreation5327 _It shows there is a gap between them, but it never gives us a value. While at first sight the forms may seem to make a _*_big_*_ difference, in Dragon Ball small differences make big differences. For example, Piccolo's SPC with a PL of 1330 can one-shot Raditz with a PL of 1200, which is only about 1.1 times stronger. Or Yamcha with a PL of 1440 effortlessly beating a Saibaman ( 1200 ). It's not necessary for Grade 2 to be x2x, nor even Grade 3._
@@jollygoodfellow3957 _I have to correct myself. Shueisha wrote and made a Japanese version, and gave it to use for the company that made El Manga Legendario. EML translated it into Spanish. You can see that on EML's licensing pages. However, while I have personally heard that the Japanese version did not include x10, I was unable to find any of Shueisha's original Japanese texts. Furthermore, it does not seem that the original is part of a guide you can buy. It is possible that Shueisha wrote a draft exclusively for EML to translate and use. But regardless, the validity of EML cannot really be confirmed without the original texts, at the end of the day._
Only strength? But strength is useless. How come can they tank so much more then and are also so much faster? I mean I don't even need give proof for this it's present during all the series thousands of times. Must be one smart person to not notice that with so many chances LOL
This could just be a case of misunderstanding ( I have always viewed the ssj grades 2 and 3 as the same thing as ssj2 and ssj3 mainly because ssj grade 1and ssj grade 4 are the same)
Nah that just doesn’t make sense. Ground beef has grades, yet ground beef’s highest grade does not make it a steak. Steak is steak, ground beef is ground beef. SSJ 1 has grades that let you get used to the power & optimize it. Then ssj2 is just superior in level. And so on.
That litteraly makes no sense. Grade 3 is no where near the power of ssj2 as litteraly Vegetas final flash could’ve killed a held back cell. Vs a super perfect cell dying to a one armed kamehama by ssj2 gohan
It’s actually very simple Super sayan 1, 50x multiplier Super sayan 2, 100x multiplier Super Sayan 3, 200x multiplier Super sayan 4, 400x multiplier Super sayan God, 600x multiple Super Sayan blue, 30000x But in hero’s super Sayan 4 is as strong as super Sayan blue keoken times 20… and so Power levels are bull sht. In the ending of hero’s Super Sayan 4 + (what was practically keoken x20 was as strong as perfected ultra instinct, which would be jumping from ss4 being 400x to it being around 400000x which makes no sense absolutely at all?!! (I know a lot of my math and spelling is wrong but I thinks you get the point)
@@bestdemon7734 is figured ss3 would be a 2x multiplier like ss2 is and that ss4 would be a 2x multiplier of that. But mostly my point was that in super hero’s what was basically Keoken x20 ss 4 is posed to be essentially the same strength as perfected Ultra Instinct
Actually your completely forgetting Super Saiyan grades 2 3 and 4. Super Saiyan 2 is supposed to be twice Super Saiyan 1 grade 4 not Super Saiyan 1 grade 1. Super Saiyan 1 grade 1 is 50; Super Saiyan 1 grade 2 is 100. So super Saiyan 1 grade 3 has to be stronger than that. Super Saiyan 1 grade 4 is even stronger than grade 3 but without grade 3 limitations. Super Saiyan 2 = AT LEAST 2000 times. So Super Saiyan 3 would likely be 10,000 times, but has this really ridiculous stamina drain that makes it not viable in most situations, much the same way as Super Saiyan 1 grade 3. When you get into higher forms you don't actually have any way to get a power multiplier so there's no point in trying to find it
Always had this in the back of my mind as it never made sense how much grade 2, 3,and 4 actually multiplied the power
Its the small details that people find that are always awesome
Grade 3 is stronger than Grade 4 but it is just slow as hell.
As stated by Cell, Trunks could have defeated him If he weren’t slow
Basically
SSJ2 > Grade 3 > Mastered SSJ => Grade 2 > SSJ
@@willi898 eh if this were the case i feel like we would’ve seen goku or gohan go grade 3 the moment they were about to attack and use grade 4 for the speed advantage.
@@willi898Cells full power and buff form especially > trunks
@@willi898Guidebooks say grade 4 is stronger than grade 3.
After they get have the first super Saiyan transformation their base form probably increases a lot and the multiplier goes down
That doesn't make any sense, what are you smoking? If ssj1 was the one with the highest multiplier then they wouldn't use any other form.
@@Arsov422 There is only one super Saiyan. 2nd and 3rd are SSJ 1 with more ki put into it to increase SSJ 1 power/attributes. A.T. stated this in an interview long ago. Fans make up power levels and multipliers to make the characters scale to outside of anime characters. We all await an official release of legit power levels and multipliers. My hair turning gray while waiting, so don't hold your breath. lol
@@ryigen83 the official data books created the super saiyan multipliers
@@giosbizarreart9048 Where can I see/purchase them?
SethTheProgammer also made a similar video to this one, nice to see this becoming more widespread.
Did he? I heard him talk about it on his 5 hour Goku video so i took some inspiration from that, its cool that he also made one and im also glad its becoming more wide spread since its a really cool attention to detail fact
Crazy idea: super saiyan just adds 147 million to your power level
The truth is that none of the forms except Kaioken are multipliers.
Fr
What?
That makes no sense
Super saiyan is objectively a multiplication, if it wasnt then gokus lower kaioken forms would have been of more use in mid-end dbz with how strong they got in base.
@@RandomSkull420It does, Toriyama literally said it's not what he intended to do when caramel mama did calculations to give us SSJ and Friezas power levels.
I’m writing a fanfic and I honestly think I’d stick to these numbers because SSJ being a 500x makes some sense to why no one mastered SSJ3. Because if SSJ3 is 400x from base it would make sense to try and mostly use that form but since SSJ is actually 500x from base is already higher hence why most characters stick with just SSJ
SSJ 1 10x multiplier stated by Akira T.. The publishers put 50x.
@@ryigen83 this is obviously not true. Anyone with 2 working brain cells knows goku used kaio ken x20 in namek and wasnt able to beat 50% frieza. If ssj 1 was a 10x multiplier he would’ve had no business staying on namek and would have never beat frieza.
@@Mr_Lucas I didn't make the numbers the creator did. look it up. it's public. all you did is show how inconsistent the scaling was back in the day. dbz is a power fantasy. most calculations can be debunked by people smarter than the both of us.
No, Toriyama didn’t say it was a 10x. He said it FELT like a 10x when he was drawing it, but knew it 50x.
@@ryigen83 where did toriyama ever state is was a 10x multiplier. And the data books are what gave us the 50x multiplier the very thing toriyama looked at and published. We seen gokus and friezas full power and the quantifiable numbers with them. 100% frieza was at a power level of 120 million and goku in ssj was at a power level of 150 million. Gokus base power level was 3 million. Db power scaling didnt have a problem until super.
@Mr_Lucas look it up bro. It's old. When I was teenager the data books that's out now didn't exist.
Damn bro ian know you was akira writing db for us 🤭
Very nicely done
Thank you
1:53 where do you find the manga in japanese?
I'm learning japanese and it would be cool to read the manga to learn faster :)
There a fanfiction that does actual good job at calculating the power of Super Saiyan called Bringer of Death. Also if Vegeta fan he basically main character in it.
The scale makes sense if we assume mastering ssj isn’t a direct multiplier. For example, Vegeta and Trunks never put the effort into mastering it right? They learned how to boost the multiplier but they didn’t raise their base power enough. Goku and Gohan mastered the transformation and in the process, pushed their base power a lot higher.
So the multipliers could stand but having a lower base power makes mastering ssj the better route. After the time chamber it was stated Goku and Gohan were stronger. Let’s look at some numbers lol
Lets assume imperfect cell was an even 500M and let’s assume Goku’s power level when he meets trunks is around 4.5M. The androids being twice as strong as ssj Goku, puts them at 450M. 16 should be around 525M. Definitively stronger than imperfect cell.
2nd form cell being around 600M claps them. Now let’s get to our saiyans.
Vegeta in grade 2 clapped 2nd form cell. If it’s about 65x base, that puts Vegeta at 9.5M base power. So far so good. This is 3 years after Goku met trunks plus the time chamber. It makes sense that Vegeta would double 4.5M at least. So far so good.
Perfect Cell, I put at 800M. He got a bigger boost from 18 and now he has access to his full power. Ok, Perfect Cell stated that grade 3 trunks was stronger. Let’s look at the numbers.
Trunks should be around 3M when we meet him. He wasn’t as battle hardened and experienced as our Goku or Future Gohan. 3M might be a lil generous. For his grade 3 to be higher than 800M his base needs to be at least 11M. Not impossible. He’s a half saiyan and now he’s getting some better training. Cell said you’re FAR stronger than me. Realistically, Grade 3 Trunks was around 900M putting his base at 12M. So far so good still.
Goku fought Cell as MSSJ, if we assume this is still the base 50x multiplier Goku’s base needs to be around 16M to fight evenly with Perfect Cell. Now, is it reasonable? I think so. Goku’s trained with Gohan and Piccolo for 3 years. Plus the time chamber. Same as Vegeta.
We can say Goku saw greater gains because: Gohan eventually got stronger than him and was able to push him AND mastering and staying ssj should provided a nice boost to his base power. So it might seem that MSSJ is a separate multiplier but it doesn’t have to be. It would make more sense to say MSSJ provides the same 50x but the process of mastering it makes your base 50% higher. Let’s look at Gohan to see if this holds up.
After eating the senzu, let’s put Perfect Cell at 900M. Teen Gohan would have to be at least 18M in base power. That’s not far fetched. He was close to 1M on Namek without Goku having trained him or the time chamber. Not hard to imagine Gohan, with his potential getting this strong. Trunks had a similar jump.
We can pinpoint it more if we jump ahead. Gohan vanquished SPC with half his strength. If we assume SPC is roughly 1.2B, Gohan coulda been around 1.4B and beat him. Giving us 2.8B ss2 Teen Gohan with a base of 28 million. He coulda been as low as 18M without MSSJ to boost his base. This means without him mastering ssj, even if he went ss2, once Cell broke his arm he woulda been dead. Mastering ssj gave him that little extra to be able to pull it off.
Gohan 28M
Goku 16M
Trunks 12M
Vegeta 9.5M-12M
Vegeta didn’t use grade 3 because of the speed issues. Him and trunks coulda been even as far we know.
These numbers make it all work without adding shyt like rage boost and domination and without contradicting the multipliers and keeping MSSJ as a regular 50x amp.
Sorry for the essay lol also see why golden Frieza clappin these boys lol
Actually tomination multipliers work really well and have been working thoroughly.. since the namek saga. Otherwise? How is it that Vegeta was beating regular zarbon at 23,000 when his power was only 24,000 if anything they work much better at high levels.. I must thank you tho. Most people put ridiculous highball levels in the hundreds of billions and trillions by ssj2. Thrilled that you share my thought process in this. 👍🏻 Some people are too multiplier happy 🤦🏻♂️ I just want to make one korrection the uide books put Android 17 at 390m making imperfect much higher as well as 16. That is all I wanted to add. The rest of your numbers I think our. Perfect 👌🏻
@@otherhalf228couldn’t agree more.
Note how Vegeta used an attack that used up all his life force energy (similar to the Shin Kikoho which allowed Tenshinhan to stall Cell) which failed vs Boo and yet Super Saiyan 3 could’ve beaten Boo 🗿
And V-Jump in 2004 states that Coola had a PL of 470,000,000 while Gogeta is 2,500,000,000; meaning V-Jump likely had way different opinions on the multipliers of Super Saiyan 2 & 3 than the Super Exciting Guides 🗿
The whole SSJ2 being 2x MSSJ is just ridiculous. That would mean that MSSJ Gohan should’ve been bodying Cell before he powered up to maximum.
Here’s a small scale just to show how ridiculous it really is
Cell-10
MSSJ Gohan-5
SSJ2 Gohan-10
Cell full power-at least 15
See how just doesn’t make any sense?
I’ve already seen your argument with the creator but thinking narratively cell could’ve just been that much stronger than we think. As upscaling ssj2 to a 2x boost on top of g4 would make cell scale higher in terms of his multipliers to
@@Mr_Lucas The Fact that Gohan was tanking Cells hits makes me believe that as a SSJ2 he was somewhere between 2.5-3 times stronger than Cell at full power. Was the multiplier stated before or after the Buu arc? If it was after then it makes total sense but Gohan was giving Cell the business. He couldn’t even touch him as a MSSJ and he was even stronger than Goku. I’m just lost in all that tbh
@@VonKappallot problem with this is gohan in mssj didn’t want to fight this iss kind of part of his character arc here in the cell games goku pushes him to fight even tho gohan isnt a born fighter like goku he couldn’t really push his power until unlocking ssj2 which basically flips a coin in gohans mentality letting power go to his head
@@VonKappallotyou are way off
The multipliers aren’t finite
As the guide and toriyama state they can’t be mathematically scaled
@@supesisfodder7427 I’m just tryna make sense of it. Guess it’s just a waste of time huh? Considering Dragonball stopped being consistent with power scaling after the Namek arc
I've previously broken down the multipliers of grade 2, 3, and 4 of Super Saiyan on my own time. Since grade 5 is SSj2, and is a 100x base, I've calculated the previous grades to have an equal increment increase because that only makes sense. You can't go beyond what official statements say. The 2x SSj is not in reference to grade 4 ssj. It's grade 5/SSj2. Let me break down what I came up with. If we divide it up evenly, SSj grade 2 is a 12.5 point, or 25% increase from SSj1, effectively making grade 2 a 62.5x base multiplier. Since the percentage increase is the same, Grade 3 is 75x base, grade 4 is 87.5x base. And of course, grade 5, aka SSj2 is a 100x base.
Well for one, that 25 was pulled out of your ass and has no proof behind it. Secondly, as i said, guidebooks have stated that grade 3 is 10 times stronger than grade 1 but just has stamina issues, and it also states that grade 4 is stronger than all the other grades and has no defects. The 50->100->400 multipliers came from 1 guidebook and multiple others have contradicted said multipliers unless we assume ssj2 is 2 times grade 4 which makes sense since it is GRADE 5
@GodVanisher agreed
The guidebooks are secondary at best and are only valid when their information can be verified in the source material, which isn't the case for SSJ2 and SSJ3 (on the contrary SSJ2 being 2x is blatantly contradicted by SSJ2 Gohan beating Cell with less than half his Ki left), it makes no sense for SSJ2 to be a mere 2x amp to SSJ1 when prior Grade transformations already provided larger amps.
SSJ2 being a 2x amp to Regular SSJ or Grade 1 would literally make the form even weaker than Grade 3 and would only make it roughly equivalent to a Grade 2 amp, so it makes more sense that the 2x measurement is applied to FPSSJ/Grade 4 rather than to the standard Grade 1 SSJ.
The whole SSJ2 being 2x MSSJ is just ridiculous. That would mean that MSSJ Gohan should’ve been bodying Cell before he powered up to maximum.
Here’s a small scale just to show how ridiculous it really is
Cell-10
MSSJ Gohan-5
SSJ2 Gohan-10
Cell full power-at least 15
See how just doesn’t make any sense? If you can explain that to me it would be much appreciated
@GodVanisher I felt like Cell was that much stronger but he was just trying to get Gohan mad so he was playing with him. But I do agree that Gohan had to be at least 3-4 times stronger than Cell and at least 40-50 percent stronger than Super Perfect Cell
Ssj grade 2 is 17.5 times multiplier than the grade due to vegeta tanking a galic gun by semi perfect cell as scale
Vegeta is a 1
Semi-perfect cell is a 100 (due to cell feeling comfortable against ssj vegeta
Ssj vegeta is 50
Semi-perfect cell then powers up making him a 125
Semi perfect’s galic gun 437.5
ASSJ/SSJG2 vegeta is a 875
I believe that if the saiyans still had their tails then the ssj grade forms would not exist because the tail would handle balancing the energy flow within a saiyan
You have forgot about super saying 4
Nice theory but you are wrong in that MSSJ is a higher multiplier. It is still just x50 to base same as SSJ grade 1 but without any Ki lose. Because they stayed in the form as much as possible to let their bodies get use to the power. The reason they are that much more powerful than Vegeta and Trunks is because they trained with each other. Whereas Vegeta and Trunks trained separately. It's been stated many times in DB that training with someone close to your level will greatly increase how fast you grow in power.
Vegeta's grade 2 SSJ is a 50% increase of grade 1 but drains ki faster.
Trunks' grade 3 is equal to SSJ2 but there is a huge lost in speed and agility. As all the power if focused on pure strength. Proof is that when Gohan went SSJ2 Trunks said that Gohan did it right. Implying that what Trunks did was similar but focused his power wrong.
Basically, what Vegeta and Trunks did was the same thing that Master Roshi did way back in DB. He had the same transformations where he buffed himself up to a +50% and a +100% or x2 in power.
No way ssj grade 3 is in the same league as ssj2
Thats completely false grade 3 is no where near ssj2
That’s so dumb bro because when Goku just went grade 2 in the time chamber. Gohan thought he went ssj2. You can’t base your agurmnet on assumptions
before this I thought ssj grade 4 is just ssj but it doesn't drain power, while ssj after time becomes weaker, and ssj grade 1 and two are like 65 from 85 multipliers, but they also drain faster. In this video you claim that ssj grade 2 and 3 are waaay stronger, but with an higer powerm drain, and it makes sense, but making ssj grade 4 that strong is absurd, but could close the gap between ssj and ssjgod, because in db super it seems that ssj is till viable, but whit logic it shoudn't. however, if we take this and the fact that gok ki power (not full ssj god multiplier) was absorbed in base (not really, they still don't have god ki in base but it's a power emulation) and counting that when going ssj god the two god ki boosts don't stack, just ssjgod multipler and boost of having true god ki, the power gap and forms power scaling makes more sense
_Good video, but I have quite a few disagreements there. While El Legendario is officially licensed, this is just a Spanish translation of an already existing Japanese guidebook. The Japanese guide they translated it from mentions nothing about an x10 multiplier. So this can be ruled a translation error. Much like how the dub messed up by saying Instant Transmission is LS._
_While Grade 2 is "much stronger" than Grade 1, being much stronger in DB can range anywhere from 20% stronger to 20 times stronger, and beyond. It doesn't really mean much._
_The other Spanish guide, as far as I am aware, is not an actual officially licensed booklet. But even if it was, the SSJ multipliers would still be correct, as nothing suggests Grade 3 is 2 or more times Grade 1._
_SSJ2 being x2 is is directly in reference to Grade 1, as the arrow points directly at the same x50 Grade 1 Goku. Even if Grade 4 were to be stronger than Grade 1, that'd just mean Grade 4 is in-between 50 and 100 times._
disagreed, it clearly shows in the manga and anime the power difference between the grades. If you think that its just a 2x boost from base super saiyan then you would also be agreeing with the fact grade 2 is the same strength as mastered which is definitely false
@@zerocreation5327 _It shows there is a gap between them, but it never gives us a value. While at first sight the forms may seem to make a _*_big_*_ difference, in Dragon Ball small differences make big differences. For example, Piccolo's SPC with a PL of 1330 can one-shot Raditz with a PL of 1200, which is only about 1.1 times stronger. Or Yamcha with a PL of 1440 effortlessly beating a Saibaman ( 1200 ). It's not necessary for Grade 2 to be x2x, nor even Grade 3._
_Or Nappa with 4000 nearly one-shotting Piccolo with 3500. Which is only about 1.2 times stronger. You get the point._
What is this Japanese guide? I've only ever seen the European books. If you know what it is I'll buy it... if it's real.
@@jollygoodfellow3957 _I have to correct myself. Shueisha wrote and made a Japanese version, and gave it to use for the company that made El Manga Legendario. EML translated it into Spanish. You can see that on EML's licensing pages. However, while I have personally heard that the Japanese version did not include x10, I was unable to find any of Shueisha's original Japanese texts. Furthermore, it does not seem that the original is part of a guide you can buy. It is possible that Shueisha wrote a draft exclusively for EML to translate and use. But regardless, the validity of EML cannot really be confirmed without the original texts, at the end of the day._
the forms increase their strenght, not power speed and many other things
That’s false they increase everything else.
then tell me how trunks didn't touch cell bro@@joshuameraz2826
Only strength? But strength is useless. How come can they tank so much more then and are also so much faster? I mean I don't even need give proof for this it's present during all the series thousands of times. Must be one smart person to not notice that with so many chances LOL
explain how kk20 goku was getting blitzed by frieza then in ssj blitzes frieza.
This could just be a case of misunderstanding ( I have always viewed the ssj grades 2 and 3 as the same thing as ssj2 and ssj3 mainly because ssj grade 1and ssj grade 4 are the same)
Nah that just doesn’t make sense. Ground beef has grades, yet ground beef’s highest grade does not make it a steak. Steak is steak, ground beef is ground beef. SSJ 1 has grades that let you get used to the power & optimize it. Then ssj2 is just superior in level. And so on.
That litteraly makes no sense. Grade 3 is no where near the power of ssj2 as litteraly
Vegetas final flash could’ve killed a held back cell. Vs a super perfect cell dying to a one armed kamehama by ssj2 gohan
It’s actually very simple
Super sayan 1, 50x multiplier
Super sayan 2, 100x multiplier
Super Sayan 3, 200x multiplier
Super sayan 4, 400x multiplier
Super sayan God, 600x multiple
Super Sayan blue, 30000x
But in hero’s super Sayan 4 is as strong as super Sayan blue keoken times 20… and so
Power levels are bull sht.
In the ending of hero’s Super Sayan 4 + (what was practically keoken x20 was as strong as perfected ultra instinct, which would be jumping from ss4 being 400x to it being around 400000x which makes no sense absolutely at all?!!
(I know a lot of my math and spelling is wrong but I thinks you get the point)
no?? that’s not how it is at all. ssj1 and ssj2 are right, but ssj3 is a confirmed 400x multiplier, and nothing after that is ever confirmed
@@bestdemon7734 is figured ss3 would be a 2x multiplier like ss2 is and that ss4 would be a 2x multiplier of that.
But mostly my point was that in super hero’s what was basically Keoken x20 ss 4 is posed to be essentially the same strength as perfected Ultra Instinct
Why is ssjgod so Low? Goku (battle of good, before Ssjg) is stronger then Gotenks?
Actually your completely forgetting Super Saiyan grades 2 3 and 4.
Super Saiyan 2 is supposed to be twice Super Saiyan 1 grade 4 not Super Saiyan 1 grade 1.
Super Saiyan 1 grade 1 is 50; Super Saiyan 1 grade 2 is 100. So super Saiyan 1 grade 3 has to be stronger than that. Super Saiyan 1 grade 4 is even stronger than grade 3 but without grade 3 limitations.
Super Saiyan 2 = AT LEAST 2000 times.
So Super Saiyan 3 would likely be 10,000 times, but has this really ridiculous stamina drain that makes it not viable in most situations, much the same way as Super Saiyan 1 grade 3. When you get into higher forms you don't actually have any way to get a power multiplier so there's no point in trying to find it