Unutilized techniques I would say for training by themselves. Tien also has the ability to duplicate himself physically. While I don't know the full technics of this he could effectively half his power and after teaching it to krillin and yamcha they could double their training potential growth on their own and with each other. Just a thought?
So theyvjust have to make their goal Goku's strongest transformation. Instant win. However, then Goku and Vegeta will also increase their training to stay level (or keep ahead) of Krillin, Tien, and Yamcha All this leads to base Krillin stomping on Beerus. I will make no further elaborations.
@@Billyblue98 interesting thought though if master roshi as the titled strongest earthling human in super isn't strong enough than it would take a few centuries for them to get to Beerus level strength.
@@justarandomcursedlego5972 well that makes sense.. considering the earthlings aren’t anyway near as durable or genetically blessed in potential as the saiyans..there was no way
@@jayclearmen411 i would not say Sayians are particularly blessed. Goku without his Sayian transformation seemed to be lagging behind in getting stronger in his base form compared to his Human friends. Though if he fights and does not die his Zenkai boost keeps him at an edge. Goku was very very lucky in Dragon Ball. None of the Red Ribbon Army Generals killed him when they could have.
The Kaio-Ken could have been the human response to the Super Saiyan transformation. They could even master it and make new "forms", just like the Super Saiyans. It would not be as strong, obviously, but at least they could defend Eart if any of the Saiyans isn't around. The showrunners could even make a sub plot where the Saiyans/Nameks aren't around to defend Earth because they are in some mission, like the Tournament of Power in DB Super or something, and is up to the Earthlings to finally defend their own home Planet. Personally, i like Tien, Yamcha and Krillin, so it would be cool to see them unlock new powers and transformations, kinda like the fan art of them shown in the video.
Not sure how kaioken can be used as a form when it's only a technique to raise one's Ki level plus it can only be used in short bursts before severe impact on the body for too long a use. the drawbacks can get used to but doesn't mean it will be gone. Ultimate can help one break through their limits.
It's not just that, he never changed how he trained. Tien's first mistake was not taking up Roshi's offer to train him. Second one and this goes for the other human fighters as well was not training with weighted clothing. Third was not learning Kaioken and fourth was no gravity training.
@@albireotheredguard1599i think tien just isn’t that motivated anymore. although he held himself pretty well against super buu (as in did not die in one page/5 seconds), and did pretty well against the metal man during the moro saga in dbs
@@albireotheredguard1599 1 He did train at Roshi's house for a while but by then he had already surpassed Roshi who sent them to train by themselves. 2 He used the kaioken against ginyu but that seemed to be filler. 3 I agree with although he did train on 10x gravity on kai o sama's planet but refused to enter the room of spirit and time strange when they were preparing to go against cell.
The original Dragon Ball showed consistently that human characters gain more power faster using the same training techniques Goku used. The difference is that Goku had moved on to the next training method by the time they got around to it. Training with Master Roshi -> Training with Korin -> Training with Kami -> Training with King Kai -> Training with artificial gravity. At each stage, they get close to his current level despite using his now-abandoned training methods. It's remarkable how much potential human characters had until transformations enter into the picture.
I think about this a lot. There’s even a scene of Tenshinhan on King Kai’s planet in the manga where he’s thinking to himself that he will never catch up to Goku if he’s always one step behind his training, and he realizes that if he wants to compete he’s going to have to combine King Kai’s techniques with his own to improve them. Even that late in the series he was still being written as if he believed he could remain a rival to Goku, and specifically that superior techniques would be his ace in the hole. It’s almost as if seeing Super Saiyan broke his ambition because, for the first time, Goku opened up a seemingly insurmountable power gap with a method that was impossible for him to replicate. From that point on he remained committed to training and being HIS best, but he had to accept that his former ambition to be THE best was just no longer realistic.
This is also why it sort of irks me how much stronger Goku and Vegeta have become even in their base forms. It’s one thing for them to have transformations that leave everyone else in the dust, but having their base forms so far above everyone is just like pouring salt in the wound.
"If they actually tried" Tenshinhan is crying at the corner because he is the only one that keeps training. Man the writers hate that guy Also Chaozu erasure. Dude trains just as much as Tenshinhan
Tien should 100% be way stronger than the rest of the humans, not only does he train harder and more, but he is also part tri-clops which should give him an extra boost and more abilities (which got tossed aside after dragon ball unfortunately)
Honestly with how crazy human techniques can get, if they trained there would be no show at all. Frieza nearly got done by Krilin with the kienzan which he narrowly avoided for example, then there's absolutely everyone using the solar flare because it's just that good of a thing, the mafuba also used to trap opponents, etc. Humans in dragon ball are underrated AF.
That's a good point. The biggest failure on DBZ's part was relying too much on power & transformations, rather than techniques. The humans have some really impressive special moves, but they just lack the power for it to matter most of the time.
Yeah original dB tapped into this a lot, they should revisit a lot of the ideas there. Liketien can stop ko in its track with kiai, chiaotzu‘s esp is a power entirely different from ki, and hidden magic users can be more dangerous than just power lvl, like baba who can bring back dead warriors for 1 one day, the Rabbit gangster that can turn people into carrots, etc
Another example is Roshi's lightning surprise. It let him immobilize Oozaru Goku, who was vastly stronger than the old man back then. Who's to say that the humans couldn't learn it as a stalling or set-up move. Throw in the power boost from this efficient training, and they might be able to at least stun the likes of DBS Frieza, thought maybe not the golden form.
Dragon ball scaling is a Geometric progression: Goku trains 3 years with Kami-sama in db classic and gains approx 100 power level Earthlings trains 1 year with kamisama and gains approx 500-700 power level But Piccolo in 23th is 10 times weaker than Nappa, so the earthlings improvements don't matter Krillin got a lot of boosts in Namek saga, if i'm not mistaken he got 10 times stronger with a unlocking potential. Probably would have more chances against saiyan saga Vegeta than with Nappa 1 month earlier. But it doesn't matter anymore. The Ginyu force is much stronger, Only Goku with a power up bigger than the others could win. Earthlings also reached Kaio planet faster, gained more power than Goku in the same amount of time, but it doesn't matter anymore, because freeza 1st form power level is 30x higher than vegeta in saiyan saga and he is said to be 240x stronger than 1st form with 100% of power, Goku with a lot of gravity training, using and abusing of Zenkai and using his power multiplier (Kaioken) Was not enough to defeat a 50% freeza. Vegeta also got an absurd Zenkai after being cured by Dende, but Goku is still stronger and has Kaioken, will be a SSJ soon. But Earthlings improve faster? No, because Goku had the same training of Krillin as Roshi apprentice before 21th tournament but Goku seems to improve in a faster rate, and you see the earthlings training hard with Master Roshi before 21th and 22th tournament, they trained enough, but they are not Goku so their power level will rise less in that saga. Is just that each saga everyone gains some power, and each saga the power gained is bigger, master Roshi used to have less than 1000 of power level, that's enough to be very strong on DB, but in DBZ it's irrelevant. Master Roshi have decades and decades of training but could not take down Radditz or Vegeta so he didn't even showed up in that sagas. But seems in DBS they gave him power enough to beat things stupidly stronger with months of training? He can even teach Goku something after a long time(Dumb Goku of Super Version) But his power doesn't matter cause enemies are much stronger now. Ex: If sayains Got 10x10²² stronger, earthlings will get 9x10¹² stronger. Is strong enough to take down the enemy of the previous saga, but the current enemy is much stronger, and saiyans were stronger back than and gained more power. *i didn't watched the video yet, don't know what they will say. *I just saw DBS summary. I know they throwed Goku development in the trash can and made him dumber than in classic DB. Now DBS is less canonic than GT cause the story can't follow all requeriment needed to be the same history of last chapter of the manga. I don't have problems with who see DBS or DBGT, however i only watch DB and DBZ cause is a lot better in every aspect in my opinion.
Yep. The video used my arguments with more research (but without considering that db power leves are actually a Geometric Progression). And the character gain strength if it is convenient, Goku gained a lot of power in 1 day, but even training to face androids he didn't ''earned'' so much power. When they had to face Cell Goku and Gohan gained more power in 11 months in hyperbolic chamber than Vegeta and Trunks 23 months. Is not about training, is about who is meant to be stronger in that arc. Human in fact would never be stronger cause saiyans would increase more in the same time. The Kaioken thing was forgotten because it was weaker than SSJ. Even Goku stopped using it. If Piccolo learnt Kaioken he would take down androids after fusing with Kami, but it's simply not meant to be. But it is a good video. Some arguments i probably don't know how to say something against.
Also note that for most of their histories, Saiyans couldnt transform either. Its entirely possible that there is some hidden super human form that has been lost to martial arts history.
They could make Roshi buff form one and just say Master Roshi never taught them because he can only use it for a few minutes. Let the new humans master the form.
I think that's from where Gohan's Ultimate Beast Form comes from its definitely not a Super Saiyan Form as it doesn't change Hair Colour, its definitely a Super Human Form, Humans can't use it due to their Potential being Locked and Gohan can use it due to him also being Half Saiyan, and Saiyans are known for reaching their Potential easily, Human Emotions is also something makes Super Saiyan Forms or just any other transformation Stronger because Potential of Emotional Intelligence of Humans has outmatched Saiyans Battle Lusted Nature
I like to think that Mystic form would be especially helpful for Tien. Back in Dragonball Master Roshi said that Tien was the most talanted fighter that he has seen, and that was after training Goku. And it was also said that Training under Shen sealed away some of the mystic powers of Tien's Triclops heritage. Hopefully the mystic form would unlock those abilities.
unlocks mystick jamtcha activates it and kick in kaiocen x20 wiht little strain and keeps up wiht the saians Yamtcha:huh neet im releveant now tien gets mystick holds up on it and meditates on this new unlock a while latter is face to face wiht kid buu .activates mystick forms transforms into the manyhanded budda and activcates kaiocen x30 wihute strain Tien:look upon the face of the mighty buda and kneel (then proseeds to vaporise kid buu wiht the ultimet tri beam)
never knew that before about tien. he deserved to keep up and be at least krillin level. smh. got done soo dirty in the piccolo n gohan pre TOP fight. lol. damn that still hurts to watch everytime... poor tien. its sad toriyama never cared to buff the humans as dbz went on. u figured tien and yamcha would at least learn kaioken or something while at kais planet. even tho their bodies couldnt go past the base kaioken power. they could slowly overcome that and make their bodies stronger thru years of training tho i think. such wasted potential indeed. 😟😔
Can't wait until Tien unlocks the powers hidden behind his third eye. Krillin will then unlock the Buddha's Palm. If it comes down to it, Yamcha might just use 0.00001% of his power
These ideas would actually be an interesting way to give the earthlings power ups. Just a little brainstorming and the earthlings could’ve had something to keep up.
@@BeanBoiYami The ideas for Krillin and Tien were kinda serious cause I feel like Krillin and Tien fr coulda had more. They just gave Krillin Solar Flare x100 and called it a day. A shame in my opinion. I seriously just didn't know what to do with Yamcha. Some type of Super Spirit Ball? Like Spirit Bomb but he can make it fly around and control it like a spirit ball? Idk...
@@BeanBoiYami Maybe something like it looks like he's charging a blast but then crushes it and makes a blade glove of ki. Or it being similar to the dragon fist but instead of being a punch it's a multi hitting brutal slashing attack. A super wolf fang fist or Slashing wolf fang fist.
@@BeanBoiYami i once had an idea for Yamcha to defeat stronger opponents. Perform spirit ball, then compress it until it's a size of rice grain. Then navigate it inside enemy throu mouth and detonate. Yamcha could have such great ki control due to spirit ball itself
Yeah it really does. I understand it was easier to focus on one race, but there was so much that could’ve been done with the earthlings. Here’s to hoping that they become more relevant in the future.
i feel like the greatest wasted opportunity is definitely tien he has one of the most powerful techniques that he regularly uses, his tri-beam is able to stop semi-perfect cell despite the MASSIVE difference in power, for him to delay him as much as he did where others were barely able to fight semi-perfect cell, i feel like if he continued training and honing his skills, by the time the universe tournament came around tien would have been a far stronger competitor
That's one of the reasons why Super has trash writing. In the Buu saga, Tenshinhan could hurt Buu (albeit only slightly) with his Kikoho, then in DBS Roshi is somehow stronger.
@@Gabu_ they did my man tien dirty in super i STILL think the tri-beam is the strongest ability in terms of its ratio of user's power level to what it can impact tien during the cell saga is estimated to have ~1,000,000 power level (depends on the source) while similar sources rank semi-perfect cell at ~720,000,000 tien was suppressing (and somewhat damaging) semi-perfect cell with his neo tri-beam at a 720:1 power level difference during the buu saga, super buu was entirely immune to the tri-beam effect, but has a power level of ~24,000,000,000 and way above tien's power level
There's a fan manga called "a new hope", which it's a "What if Cell won and killed everyone". And it's actually really good, the artist took a lot of effort in making the drawings very similar to the original manga. But the point is, in this Manga Crilin gets a lot of screentime and it shows how strong he could have been.
Being turned into androids would also be a huge boost. Gero and the twins had no training and yet were around and above a normal super saiyan. So imagine someone who did train and have Kaioken were made into androids. Also androids don't seem to tire out so they have more time to train.
@@mrpoopybuttface that would be a big boost but I doubt Goku and Vegeta would do it. They probably view it as cheating or a shortcut now their kids might be more open to the idea of becoming androids.
There's also another way for them to become more useful, Yardrat. Goku could use Instant Transmission to bring them there so they could learn things like Instant Transmission or Forced Spirit Fission. Since the Saiyan Trio are the powerhouses with very basic moves usually coming down to just Ki Blast or Physical Fighting skill it would be fitting if The Human Trio became more Tactical, learning things that help them win in other ways besides just overpowering their opponents. If the Saiyan Trio fights Harder then the Human Trio fights Smarter.
So I plan on making a video about the same concept, but going into Dragon Ball super and I think your idea is absolutely brilliant and I’ll try to implement it in.
@@BeanBoiYami Thanks man. Your ideas are pretty solid too. I like how you had them use the gravity room I honestly never thought of that. Good luck with the video
Look at how well Roshi does in the Tournament of Power in Super. He knows all sorts of techniques and can defend against things nobody else ever imagined.
I think it’s yamcha…he got done dirty…too dirty He actually was a pretty good fighter and had potential. His cocky attitude usually got him in trouble and defeated and he gets mocked and laughed at then you literally have vegeta who goes through pretty much the same thing and he has all the fans respect in the world. Vegeta pretty much gets yamcha’ed through out the serious only putting up slightly more of a fight only to get wrecked. So the treatment of yamcha was kinda just unfair lol
For real Vegeta literally goes through more humiliation than Yamcha. Most of his life he was a bitch to frieza then when he was free of him he got overconfident and got his ass kicked consistently until he finally grew up. Worst thing that happened to yamcha was getting cucked.
About the potential unlock and mystic form, it's worth noticing that Guru can't unlock ALL of the user's potential, because Gohan also received it, but still got mystic form and a massive boost from it.
What if the potential also accounts for training loss, you never gain at 100% regardless of how hard you train, what if the PU from GURU was his current potential, with training that innate potential may have been boosted along with his actual power until it was unlocked later by the Kai.
Guru unlock Gohan potential when Gohan was still a kid. He unlock what Gohan potential was at that age. Old Kai unlocked the potential for a fully grown adult with his body being at its prime
@@johnlequebecois That actually isn't the issue. Gohan as an adult had the ability to transform into ssj2. The mystic form is unlocking his potential including the transformations. When Gohan was questioning old Kai about using his unlocked power he told him to use the same manner in which he transformed to do it.
I’d argue that krillin having a family just gives a bigger reason to get stronger. If someone pulls up he’d need to fight for them. He’s one of my top favorite characters and it sucks that they just let him waste away and get slumped by literally anyone on a power trip☠️🗿
Krillin is also stated by Toriyama to be the strongest Earthling, and that is with his only training across the 7 years probably being some sparing matches with 18. Tien had been training the entire time (even if ineffectively). If anything Krillin should at least have a substantially higher base than the others.
There’s one big missed opportunity that actually had some seeds planted in the series, and that’s Tenshinhan continuing to be innovative with his techniques. When he’s on King Kai’s planet, there’s a moment where he acknowledges that he’ll never catch up to Goku if he’s always one step behind his training, and he specifically realizes that he will have to be creative with the techniques he learns from King Kai if he wants to compete. Here’s the direct quote from the manga: “I cannot hope to surpass Goku at the same training regiment, but if I master the essentials of the technique and add a few twists of my own, I should be able to avoid another humiliating defeat.” That right there plants the seeds for what I think was probably the biggest missed opportunity. Tenshinhan in Dragonball was like a Swiss Army knife of crazy techniques, and that could’ve continued throughout DBZ to both make him more relevant *and* keep some of that Dragonball spirit alive. There are some glaringly obvious ways he could’ve followed through with his stated intention to master King Kai’s techniques and adapt them for himself. He has one signature technique in particular that almost perfectly synergizes with Kaio-Ken, and that’s the multi-form technique. Think about it like Tenshinhan is a balloon and his ki is the air inside the balloon. Kaio-Ken is like blowing more air into the balloon. The problem is that the balloon is being over-inflated beyond its natural limits, so doing it too many times or pushing it too far could pop the balloon. On the slip side, multi-form creates identical copies of the balloon, but it can’t increase the amount of air from the original balloon, so what you end up with are significantly deflated balloons. So what happens if you combine these two techniques? In theory, multi-form creates the deflated balloons and Kaio-Ken inflates them up to full size. Doing this, Tenshinhan could produce any number of full-powered clones, and the usual drawbacks of Kaio-Ken wouldn’t be an issue because it wouldn’t be pushing the bodies past their normal limits. The strength of each technique eliminates the weakness of the other. Now tell me a whole army of Tenshinhans wouldn’t have been useful. And that’s not even getting into all the possibilities of someone like Tenshinhan mastering “the essentials” of the Genki Dama and then coming up with ways to use that technique other than simply gathering energy into a ball for one massive explosion. When you get down to it, the essential element of the technique is the ability to draw on external energy rather than relying exclusively on your own internal ki. Making a spirit bomb is just the most blunt, simplistic application of that ability. Someone who mastered the technique and got more creative with it could essentially do much of what Moro did with his magic. You could even bring Chiaotzu into the mix. He could’ve been the one to master the Genki Dama technique and put it to use as a support class character, gathering the energy and feeding it to Tenshinhan to use so he doesn’t have to stand there with his arms over his head during a battle. With his psychic powers, maybe he could’ve learned to forcibly drain energy from opponents rather than needing to ask nicely. This would actually be a fitting ability for him considering his character design is based on an energy-draining Chinese vampire. The more you think about it, the more possibilities you unlock. It’s just such a bummer that Toriyama teased us with that one thought bubble from Tenshinhan and then never followed up on it in the slightest. The biggest missed opportunity for sure.
Bro, this was such a good read and an excellent thought. I'm pretty sure you put thought in this comment than Toriyama did in the entire Dragon Ball series.
I agree. I always was having imaginary fights in my imagination as a kid. Coming up with clever ways Tien could still win fights or at least compete, matching his creativity against stronger opponents. He just seemed like the type of character who would do that.
This is how see the Human Trio advancing Kaioken: This becomes their signature technique like SSJ for the Saiyans. Spirit Bomb: When they are in a Pinch they'd pull their power together and use the Spirit Bomb, this could help them actually do damage to serious threats without having them just wait around for everyone on Earth to contribute Yardrat: They'd have Instant Transmission and maybe Force Spirit Fission. They'd become more Tactical Fighters. Saiyans Fight Harder, They fight Smarter. Specific Abilities: Krillin would learn how to make Constructs like his Destructo Disk so Blades, Hammers, Shields and other things to help in Combat. Tein would Master the Multi form Technique and use Kaioken to stop it from splitting his Power. His signature would be to make 2 Clones and have them use the Tri Beam with him. Yamcha would learn something similar to Krillin's Construct Ability and form an actual Wolf with his Ki, it would be used to take attacks for him and also attack on his behalf. They would all improve with the Solar Flare and combine with the Spirit Bomb to make an actual Sun out of Ki which they'd use offensively. This is just my vision on what they could've done but there are definitely better ideas out there on how things could've went down.
Ki constructs need more utilization in general. Trunks used a spirit bomb ki contruct in the anime, maybe that could be something krillin and yamcha do too to add to the fact they learn ki contructs and spirit bomb
Also you’re introducing dozens of fighters from other universes with all sorts of crazy abilities, but the human z-fighters couldn’t showcase any new techniques of their own? It was the perfect setup to have them contribute with interesting new techniques rather than raw power, but no, they just tried their usual stuff and got KOd almost immediately.
Yeah. When you consider that. Universe 7 had an unfair advantage with 2 angel trained characters. One of wich was itching for the tourney way longer then anyone else. The rest of the universes had like a 5 minute notice to gather their team in preparation of death.
The humans always showed more discipline than their stronger opponents I feel like they should have gotten much more powerful as ki techniques reached them. The practiced humans already had incredible ki control, and learning how to harness and improve their ki through the kais and other cosmic allies
I'm going to say Chiaotzu is the most wasted. Him and Tien but mostly Chiaotzu. He is the only character who could have a large magical/psychic arsenal but Toriyama didn't pursue that, deciding to just make everyone fight identically with punches and ki-blasts.
@@AnimatorBlake Not really. Most magic are mostly godlike level or telekinetic stuff. Moro never used ki for his magic, neither Dendé or even Chiaotzu. magic and ki are 2 separate thing as ki is life energy and magic is simply magic. Most magic user in DB are natural and never trained to use it while anythingki related need training
Martial arts not being a factor in DBZ was a huge let-down too. Even Buu should have been outclassed against anyone knowing a speck of martial arts that was tangentially near his power level. Not sure if Vegeta knew any martial arts by then but those fights would have been looking a little different other than Cell's, which may be argued that he knows all of their moves genetic...ally?
I feel like Tein should definitely be the strongest of the Earthlings as he is consistent with his training and he should've been used a lot more due to his unique skill set and techniques.
@@GenJuhru would of been nice to see a super charged version of this movie. 🤷🏻♀️ when I look at other manga is a crying shame how far the other characters got dropped. If you look at something like yu yu haka at the end all the characters are about relative in strength to each other
I think a better upgrade would be to do something similar to hinata for the wolf fang fist, like charge it so it wasn't so much as a physical attack but both a physical and ki attack to deal extra damage or perhaps increase its effective range.
That's one of the things I really appreciate about fan mangas and animations. They often spend more time showing love to the characters that got left behind. This was a great video!
I feel like it would have been really cool if Tien learned Kioken and Yamcha learned the spirit ball as it fits their fighting styles quite well. Tien is known for sacrificing his body for power and putting his all into a fight as well as playing tactically enough to get the most out of a boost like this. Yamcha on the other hand likely isn't as likely to rush in guns blazing, sitting on the sidelines fearful about getting blown up again. Using this tone he'd actually be great for setting up spirit bomb and could combine it with his spirit ball in order to have greater control over his massive attack, not nearly as easily able to move it of course, but it would still be a unique usage of a skill we've already seen.
Imagine if Yamcha is able to create a smaller spirit bomb, but is more mobile than the regular big blue orb. So he can control it like Spirit ball, probably not do the same kind of damage but being able to manipulate it araound makes it a very threatening weapon against evil foes. I agree with Tien having Kaio Ken he would be the type of guy to recklessly push his limits. Krillin I feel should have unlocked Mystic like Gohan. I feel that the ultimate god like form for any human to achieve is Supreme Kai or at that level
@@Phoenix-pm2qr If he never got killed by the saibaman, you'd probably be right, but his characterization changed pretty drastically after that. Sure he took on the Ginyu force, but that was because he had backup and was way overpowered compared to them, sure he went against doctor Gero, but that was really just him trying to help with scouting, he didn't show any intention of directly fighting, Gero took the fight to him. After that, he never fights again, and the one time he tried to train, he got in over his head, and instead of accepting his limitations and working within them to get better, he gave up.
It would be dope if master roshi took the humans to the fountain of youth. Also you would think they would be able to learn a version of kaioken since humans can use ki control better considering raditz and Vegeta was surprised by their ability to suppress their ki, sense it, as well as use techniques like the destructo disc.
Well Gohan has the biggest potential in the series and is stated because of his human nature. Ki is tied to emotions and not jus rage this is why goku and Gohan are the strongest, goku is human like and Gohan is actually human ..also the human have the better techniques in general which is shown by mater roshi martial art which brings him closer to UI then anything in the mortal world and the original komaha blast which is planet busting.. literally yumcha krillian and tian would stop and invasion of king vegeta by themselves post cell arc if goku was never a thing ..what about distructo dick which was able to damage some over 100 times his powerlevel? Or spirit ball or tri bean which literally had form 2 cell stuck in place ? Bro the humans have the shit to be broken .they have techniques that can damage people multiple times thier level which is usually not a think in dragon ball
Good vid bro. Yea, you covered all the key points. The thing that makes it hard to call is the earthlings turned down a lot of things not because they couldn't do it but because they felt they weren't on the same level of whatever threat was there at the time. Goku invites Krillin and Yamcha to train but they turn it down because they think they can't keep up with him. Tien turns down the Chamber because he felt the gap between him and Cell was too high. But since Most of them trained on King Kai's planet which had 10 times the gravity it stands to reason they could handle the gravity room or the chamber if they actually tried. I think if all three trained in a gravity room together there would be a big increase for sure. I guess it could have happened in theory after Freeza arc but before the Androids.
Thank you and Yeah they didn’t have the mindset to keep up. I don’t blame them though, the villains were showing up ridiculously stronger then the last one and they had friends who could just “go blonde” and gain a crazy increase of power. But they shouldn’t have given up when that hit that wall.
@@BeanBoiYami I think there's a missed opportunity for some really good storytelling and character development, too. Like, the humans are clearly the underdogs, and perseverance in the face of impossible odds and coming through for your friends is one of the pillars at the heart of Dragon Ball. What better way to explore that theme than by having the humans refuse to give up and still find ways to meaningfully contribute?
Lol technically yamcha tries after Frieza saga cuz he gets jealous of Vegeta lol. And actually doesn't do too bad considering it's 300x grav.. he could've def worked his way up to it
@@frankbarrie6785 sadly that's not in the manga. But yeah, if it did happen he could have easily start from x10 times and then go slowly up. It would be so much better result, and clearly they could do it.
Toriyama literally had every opportunity in the book to improve some of his characters. But instead chose to focus on the Saiyans every time, and that’s why Tien and Yamcha are in the state they are now.
It's a normal thing to do - to move to new themes and keep yourself to your protagonists. And there is nothing that stops him to explore those themes in the future. Especially Super has been very fresh and breaking from the power-up loop that DBZ had. Main characters reached physical mastery, so now are going into more mental and skill growth. Vegeta especially has been using so many new specialistic techniques and he is pretty much God of Destruction in training at this point. And Super Heroes and Tournament of Power showed he can bring more to the old cast. There is nothing that says they couldn't make Krillin character arc after this, as Super Heroes challenged him on new levels. Or we may get another adventure arc reflecting GT (as he has reused a lot of his ideas that was given into creation of GT).
With Yamcha, he should’ve learned the spirit bomb. With his already solid control of ki, he could’ve made that technique scary as it was supposed to be
I’d be so down for an earthlings only film or mini series, give them some character development and a threat that they have to manage without the Sayians. I think if done right, it’d be an instant classic
What, you mean Yamcha literally never fighting again and the only cool thing Tien doing is "holding back the worst form of a bug man only for him to transform anyway" isn't good enough for you?
@@Bruh_but_why Out of context, it was super badass. In context, it becomes a ton worse He not only failed in the end, but if he had arrived sooner, he would've killed Imperfect Cell. I SWEAR by that. SIXTEEN almost killed Imperfect Cell. What happened when Imp Cell transformed? 16 couldn't even make him budge. Meanwhile, Tien roasted him for FOUR HOURS. If he did THAT to SP Cell, then Imp Cell would have no chance. Also the "worst form of a bug man" is a Plague of Gripes reference.
It's insane because the Earthlings just get thrown aside and was just completely hindered of their skills after the Freiza saga, so much of so that they just became ''Low Power'' Assistants for Goku's battles. Android 17 got a little respect towards the end of the Goku Vs Jiren battle, but the humans, still very, very little.
While FAR from my favorite character, Chiaotzu omission from this scenario is criminal: He was the obvious choice to learn the Spirit Bomb on King Kai's planet, while the others were learning Kio Ken. He would take to Yardrak techniques easier than the other Earthlings, and possibly the Mystic Form as well. Chiaotzu would be a 'glass cannon' in combat, but a ridiculously helpful support character/staff.
@@JayEm1325Yeah, and that's one of DBs major flaws. If you have a higher power level, you're not just stronger, but you're also faster and more durable. Can't do much in those circumstances if your power level is lower
@@JayEm1325 Even then, the power level difference between raditz and goku wasn't that big, (at least not as big as the power creep later on in the story). Now imagine tien doing that to someone like frieza
One thing that seems strange is that during the sayin saga the earthlings using training from kami became easily more powerful then raditz in the 1 year training time period as opposed to Goku back during dragon ball. One thing that I see a bit during DBZ is that the earthing's go through some sort of training later on and seemingly surpass the original threshold in prior arcs
Yes and also imagine that it took Roshi 50 years just to learn the kamehameha and Roshi was considered pretty strong back in the days. He even held his own in ToP. Power scaling is so bad in DBZ it's best just to ignore all those power levels. They fcked up
@@jeroenvdw He didn't learn the Kamehéméha. He created it back in a era where KI was newly discovered (By Master Mutaito) and didn't have big enemy popping out every year. The only thing driving Roshi was his rivalry with Shen (which is why Roshi never wanted to learn the flying technique)
They could also use the dragon balls for a poeer boost. And learned new techniques like instant transmission and many other offensive and defensive powers. Lacking pure raw power, can be made up with an arsenal of many many techniques to pull up their sleeves
While I’m not really fond of the idea of using the dragon balls. I will say it did cross my mind a couple time. But I’m making another video going into super. Where they’ll focus more on certain techniques, because trying to keep up with SSG and SSB is damn near impossible. Even if the humans used God-ki
@@BeanBoiYami I think they could possibly keep with God's if they actually trained with Whis and Beerus. Being a Saiyan doesn't give any inherent advantage to manipulating God ki. Vegeta was just a Super Saiyan 2 at the most and most of the training he did to get God Ki had to be done in base form first. As stated in this video, if they could rival the base forms of the Saiyans, they could reasonably learn to use God Ki as Vegeta did just by training alone. You could even make the argument they could learn Ultra Instinct a little easier since they were never reliant on transformations anyway and were always pure martial artists.
I most definitely agree and I’m already saying that at most they’ll be relative to super saiyan 3 (god-ki) Goku in Dbs maybe a little stronger with the use of kaiokenx10-20 stacked on mystic. Which is nothing to sneeze at. That’s insanely strong. But since Ssg and Ssb are insanely stronger than ssj1-3. I don’t have an answer for them at the moment. So why not focus on some of their techniques instead and come back to their power later. Either way I’ll try to cover everything in the next video. UI included.
I headcanon that Tien could potentially Learn UI pretty quickly, at least quicker then Goku did. Also If they Stacked God Ki with there Ultimate Forms it could potentially increase its power by an unknown but pretty big amount, possibly giving them a SSG level or higher form.
My favorite earthling is Yamcha. Right along with Krillin. They're probably my favorite characters among all Dragon Ball Z and I'm actually very happy that they sort of redeemed them in the Moro Arc.
Me too! I was so happy for Yamcha to start training with Piccolo and Gohan, and to be right back on the same level as Tien and Krillen. Plus he got a win vs Moros guards. Hopefully Yamcha gets more love moving forward. Plus, he now has a GF in DB Heros
One thing to mention, I believe that their potential unleashed may be a fair amount larger, just due to two reasons, one characters in the show grow in their potential, Gohan for example went from buu saga level, to blue Kaioken level in his potential unleashed form, showing a growth in potential, and meaning if Krillin had his potential unlocked during the buu saga, the power he would obtain would likely be larger. Second, guru does state that he could only tap into a chuck of potential not all of it, meaning there was still room to grow in terms of potential. Anyway, great video!
I'm pretty sure that Yamcha and Ten Shin Han could manage the Kaio-Ken in their own way, Yamcha maybe uses the Kaio-Ken with his Wolf Style technique, for example all that power up but only in his hands or arms (yes, something similar that Luffy does with his Gear Second). Another comment said about how Ten could use King Kai techniques and its perfect. Krilin after Cell Saga could have trained with 18 and be pretty strong and durable, in Super they show how he improved old techniques and maybe thats the best for him.
IM so glad he touch on mystic with Kaioken. Mystic, or potential unleashed, is basically bringing everything you got and just unleash it all, but Kaioken is a type of meditation stance that lets you multiply your power as a whole. I always pair up Kaioken with PU and I wished the creators used this sooner.
I really wish they kept the earthlings relevant as they keep getting shadowed by people who are naturally more gifted with strength but still manage to barely keep up through hard work is a perfect message for young fans that just because you aren’t as biologically gifted as them doesn’t mean you can’t be as good as them. I’d also think that them being weaker than goku and vegeta would be a good thing as it could make a great dynamic as they could work as a trio to overcome problems rather than just being stronger than it yourself
It's good to encourage hard work to bridge gaps. But realistically if you aren't as biologically gifted as someone sadly you won't be able to grow as strong.
The reason why they didn't keep up is because there are only two earthlings who are relevant to the story in any capacity and that was yamcha and krillin out of those two only krillin kept training while yamcha stopped because he saw that he would never catch up but he is leagues above any normal human being
I strongly agree with the limited training resources. The exact same problem happens with kuwabara in yyh where is his development and potential is extremely hampered because he's mostly self taught with only a few months of training with kurama who had to focus on himself and him. while yusuke is focused on by an extremely skilled teacher. Considering later on, he developed dimensional cutting abilities but is not trained by Genkai but instead forced into studying is a waste. It's one of biggest flaws in most older anime.
anime writers are lazy to put all the characters on a equal stage. the same thing also happened in part 1 OG Naruto to Naruto part 2 shippuden.then i realize in the Boruto anime all the new gen are getting new jutsu at an equal pace but the Naruto fans hate Boruto though its an improvement in terms of writing the new gen characters getting equaled power ups anime I noticed this in Boruto.
@@haroldcruz8550 yes. But with proper training, refinement, dimensional energy, the flexibility of his regular weapon and scared energy he doesn't have to be stronger than yusuke because his abilities would allow him to punch above his weight class, protect himself better or move around in ways the others can't. Kuwabara training under Genkai instead of Kurama, training during the three kings and actually having good fights would do nothing to harm the story at all. He could have been a legend.
The one major issue I had with DB Super was that they didn't rebalance the Earthlings with the God Ki plot point. God Ki seemed like the perfect answer as to how to make the rest of the z fighters relevant compared to all the Super Saiyan power ups.
I've been reading so much cultivation manhua that I literally see everything about DBZ as a cultivation story. I mean think about it, a martial arts world filled with characters able to use chi, Roshi living for hundreds of years because he's a martial arts master, it honestly made no sense to me how humans didn't decide to take advantage of the mechanics of the world. Like how is ki stored, is there a way to increase Ki storage? What if there's a dantian? My bad I've become addicted.
I think another missed opportunity was using the Ultra Divine Water like Goku did. Although the human fighters did say they trained with Korin for the years, they didn't state using the water to Goku so it's likely they got stronger than King Piccolo without it, but if they had used it then who knows how much stronger they would've been. And if we're going into Super, there's also not training on Yardrat like Goku and Vegeta did, I think someone like Tien, Krillin or Yamcha would've really benefit from learning spirit control. There's also the fusion methods but that's not really necessary to use.
It's just poison, at a certain point it won't have an effect (as seen by good buu eating several chocolates each with enough cyanide to kill and elephant)
@@aaronking2020 At the point in time where they trained with Korin ( 3 years before they met Piccolo Jr.) it probably would've had some effect on them and how they're not supernatural alien creatures it probably would've been deadlier to them but worth it as their potential would've been awakened.
Well yeah this dude focused on a bunch of points that made no sense the biggest being the Kaio Ken, dude acts like humans would master it as easy as it is to walk, it’s nothing like that, the strain it puts on the body is too much for anyone, look what happened every time Goku used it, especially once he used it with SSJB, most of his point was humans eventually being able to go up to times 20 when realistically that would probably rip the body apart, last time Goku used it it messed up his ability to use Ki. The point I’m trying to make is you can’t use an ability that is a last resort to say anyone could be stronger using it, imagine if everyone went around using Final Explosion all the time. Lol
@@TheTendouSouji87 Well to be fair Goku managed to get from Kaio Ken x3 to Kaio Ken x20 in a couple of weeks. Also one of the reasons why it messed Goku up so much when he used it in Super Saiyen is because the transformations are diametrically opposed. On the other hand, Mystic and Kaio Ken aren't opposed. Also, the human Z fighters can still blow up planets so it's fairly clear that they're not restricted by "realistically a human would die" although I supposed I might be misunderstanding that specific statement. And the thing is, Goku managed to get up to Kaio Ken x20 in the Namek Saga, and even Yamcha by the Android Saga was assumed by Dr. Gero to be Goku and we know he knows how strong Goku was before he left for Namek. Given the additional training, it isn't far-fetched to say that they could have Kaio Ken up to x20 even by the Cell Saga since they would have had a couple hundred times longer to get it than Goku.
Honestly, I completely agree with this video. All that untapped potential the earthlings had gone to complete waste. They could have learn to Kaioken technique and the spirit bomb, too. Yet the writers decided to make earthlings weaker and focus on the saiyans more and more.
The Kai’s are easily super wasted! They are supposed to be the opposite of beerus and masters of life and creation!Even if they aren’t as physically powerful they should have been op because of hack abilities.
Good video. I'm glad you're giving the earthlings some love. Some in this fandom get so upset of the thought of humans potentially being strong for some reason. Usually, in a lot of fandoms in Sci Fi like elements with aliens, humans get wanked. Here it's the opposite.
Gonna add to my comment, I think when you add part 2 it should say "how strong can earthlings get if they took advantage of training?" because I see people keep saying they did try, but are missing the point you're getting at. Or saying they have hard limit(which isn't confirmed in story for sure, nor does Akira say it) It's like clock work but predictable. Anything and everything to keep them in their place.
@@BeanBoiYami Before I forget, if you read this wanted to say thanks for doing this video for the simple fact fans of the human Z-fighters are kind of treated like the red-headed step children of the fandom. Judging by how this video blew up and the general positive reception, there is a lot more of us out there in hiding. I do wonder if Tien could learn some of Hit's techniques, including his progress if its not a racial thing. I would do it myself if I have the equipment and is more something in the bank. But I honestly think there needs to be a video debunking the common myths of humans having no potential at all. Seth The Programmer had a really good video about human potential but sadly its gone. That said up to you but maybe something in the bank for future content perhaps. If you do decide and need help debunking the common talking points to downplay humans, I'm your guy. But you seem like a smart dude who has done their research so you'd be fine.
It’s crazy how Krillin isn’t getting the Kaioken when there not only been a game that has his storyline based around him having, but other media and games where he could use it. Out of the 3 Z fighters, he should be the main one with the technique.
Honestly the biggest missed oportunity was not letting the earthlings learn kaio ken, even Goku eventualy comes back to the technique with how useful it is The Saiyans don't have a need to it because they have super saiyan transformations but the earthlings could have use it to great effect maybe even pushing it beyond what Goku was able to, imaginé a kaio ken times 40, 50 or 100 or crazy numbers like that, there is a reason why the vast mayority of fan manga that want to give the earthlings some protagonism starts by giving them kaio ken
You missed the fact that Old Kai's potential unlock is significantly stronger than Guru's and the more a charcters trains the stronger the form (multiplier) gets.
Great video. It's such a shame how they were treated in the series. So many things could be done to make them stand out in their own ways, specialising with different techniques, forms, powers, etc.
I remembered them having an arc that felt worthwhile in the Frieza Saga (Krillin getting his potential unlocked by Grand Elder Guru, whereas Yamcha, Tien, and Chiaotzu trained on King Kai’s planet. I believe that by the time of the Android/Cell Saga, Toriyama/TOEI decided to drop them in favor of the Saiyans (and Piccolo). We hardly have a true scale as to how strong they are in Super, compared to the Cell and Majin Buu Saga.
Actually if you take the highest hipotetical into account then they are all at least near base level Goku,which is speculated to be around 100 trillion,this is reinforced with the idea that I highly doubt anyone in that tournament were only in the millions,especially since there were many normal characters that challenged base Goku, or else they would be eliminated immediately,it’s a little unbelievable especially considering Goku got that power by turning into a god,but the battles in the tournament of power speak for themselves,but other then that I got nothing
@@coluftonmcgerbergerber3116 also to be honest we also do not know what so the general strenght level in the other universes are aside of universe 7 where we know that it probally was the weakest for the longest time alot of it is probally due to frieza hindering the growth in strenght for the other races
It’s not just the tournament of power,we get conformation that at least krillin was generally base level Goku for the pre tournament fight between them,if he was still in the millions then Goku would have had absolutely no need to turn supersaiyan at all,now I do believe that it’s a little far stretched,such a increase is crazy in such little time,but this isn’t the first time dragon ball super just upped someone up just to make it a actual fight.just like buu.
That is bizarre though. Chakra and ki are the exact same things but with different names and slightly different thought processes. This is just westerners not understanding they're the same. It's like the difference between gelato and ice cream.
@@fireemblemaddict128 Not at all the same, anime isn't correct. Chi / Ki / Qi are the same. They represent the lifeforce flowing through everything. Chakras are specific gateways or wells of energy in the body with each chakra representing something different. Since you're clearly basing your knowledge on Naruto's misuse of the word, chakras would be more similar to the gates that Guy and Rock Lee can open.
@Brandon Powdhar no, I base my understanding on actually knowing eastern mythologies from living in the east. Chakra and qi/ki are two ancient concepts that stem from the same thing and were given different names in India and China. I am not just some narutard LOL Toriyama borrows heavily from eastern martial arts mythologies, and Dragonball as a whole is a lot less crazy when you understand the root concepts. Like for example, sudden mind reading abilities. Seams random to western audiences, makes sense to eastern viewers.
@@fireemblemaddict128 They do not stem from the same thing. Prana is the same as chi. Chakras are what the prana flows through. The vedas, the upanisads, nothing ever equates chakras to a concept of energy. If you have a source that proves me wrong I'd love to see it. Wiki has a pretty decent explanation. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chakra
@@fireemblemaddict128 Chinese Buddhist here, chakras and qi are interrelated, but very different. Energy channels (often unfortunately translated as "meridians") are like the canal, chakras are like the canal gates, and qi is like the water
I know you said you didn't wanna include Super but in the manga Roshi demonstrated that earthlings can also learn UI and Roshi being a very old and well practiced master, had some rudimentary form of it. Perhaps more training with Roshi and even training with Whis would unlock it. That alone can elevate them to God Status. In the latest movie, it was revealed you can literally just ask for Shenron to give your more power more or less, which seems cheap, but if it worked for Piccolo, can't see why it wouldn't work for an Earthling. Lastly, you forgot to point that Ultimate/Mystic potential unlocking is stronger than what Guru can do by his own admission. So who's to say if Ultimate/Mystic wouldn't be much much higher than what Krillin gained from Guru.
Completely overlooked the last part. It might be a little too late to try and change things in the next video seeing as it’s a continuation. But I’ll take that into consideration from now on. Thank you for your feedback.
Depends on who they ask to unleash their potential, guru could only release so much, the old Supreme kai ritual unlocked much more of gohans potential but if we take shenron into consideration, he may be able to unlock the most potential aside from super shenron. And yeah all of them should be capable of learning kaioken, spirit bomb and even ultra instinct, but they choose to let goku vegeta piccolo and gohan to handle things smh.
There are two things worth noting, one, Guru didn't unlock all of their potential, only a portion, gohan being an incredible example of that small potential unlock. The other is, krillin could have learned the kaioken after being killed in the buu saga as he was with king kai then, albeit a much shorter time(maybe return to it later thanks to Goku) and considering he handled the spirit bomb at 1 point, he might have a grasp on it at this point. Sidenote, it would be cool to see more techniques from them, the earthlings biggest weapons were their ingenuity when inventing techniques. Multiform/solar flare/destructo disc/spirit ball/tri beam/mafuba/that electric attack move/lullaby fist
I think humans are still superior in spiritual techniques because goku only learns them because of his human like nature but vegeta struggles hard to do so like instant transmission and UI .his training on the one planet with the spiritual guys was much hard for vegeta than goku but considering people like tian and roshi and krillian holding the spirit bomb and literally yamcha having the spirt bal ; I think if they went through similar training they would gather many techniques on top of material arts which even vegeta fighting is like that of piccolo and goku because of it
I always Felt that the Saiyans recovery and Zen-Kai Boost are the only reason they survive certain training. Like 100x gravity training practically crippled goku and vegeta to start but when they healed they gained the strength to withstand it. All physical training is ultimately damaging your muscles for them to heal back stronger, in Saiyans this strength gained is exponentially higher than with a human although the trade off is that it's hard for them to strain their muscles enough to get that strength gain.
Humans can also develop techniques that make them stronger, even if its only slightly. If they weren't cucked block by toei so much they could have so much more potential then what we see in the series given their abilities to develop awesome techniques and people often forget these abilities came from humans at first in db and dbz. Not counting abilities from other races in dbs and etc. So ye, I think if anything I'm hoping Tian and them get more screentime now that were focusing on others while goku and vegeta are off fighting the others.
Yep, one of the biggest human abilities showing potential was the Kamehameha from Roshi, that all the non humans use. It was used to put out fires once too.
@@jkjordon1 Mhm, I believe tien and krillin are probably the strongest human fighters, they took a lot of hits in the tournament of power and I'm not sure what their power level is during it. They have the most potential as humans, I would say roshi does to but his old age is catching up to him. Tien and krillin can have the potential to develop so many techniques despite their lack of raw power, we seen in super at times when power didn't always matter which is one of the things I'm glad that changed.
@@jkjordon1 Probably system level at best, I wouldn't consider them galaxy level, but ye, I say tien and krillin could destroy several systems if they truly wanted to but they don't necessarily have techniques for that purpose besides the kame and tien techniques. So yes.They could actually become serious threats if the show permitted it given time.
All of those were spot on however don't forget about the fact that they also missed out on the yardrat training that Goku could have told him about and get the coordinates and a ship to go there and they missed out on Supreme Kai training which would have drastically helped them out combine those two with all the other stuff you mentioned and despite not having Transformations and raw strength like a saying their techniques and the magic from Supreme Kai as well as the yardratian Spirit control would have easily allowed them to keep pace
I love this video so much because I only just now realize that you're right about why they're much weaker than the sayian because of their training methods. Super Saiyan is a whole other story but their bases should have been as strong or stronger than the sayians
Imagine if they all get their own original transformation. Like Yamaha gets some wolf Kin transformation, tein gets a Buddhism transformation and krillen gets some awakening state similar to potential unleashed.
What about the Fusion technique? Both Krillin and Yamcha were present for Goten and Trunks training, so they likely could've picked up the basics with minimum practice. Lets just say that Krillin is too short to fuse, but nothing ever said Yamcha couldn't work this out next time he sees Tien.
At least in terms of techniques like the kaio-ken, who knows how long it would take for them to learn them. Goku’s specialty is learning techniques at insane speeds. Remember he, as a child, saw master roshi use the kamehameha one time and immediately copied it. Then, as an even more skilled and knowledgeable adult, it took him a while of active training to learn the kaio-ken.
Provided, that most humans are of the modern or slightly futuristic era. Aka. Most humans are not warriors who actively hone their abilities in DBZ. Personally... Knowing that human potential is severely capped. I would go after the Earth Dragon Balls in order to gain a means to actually train without limitations or going into another dimension etc. Since most humans won't be too keen on Earth's Dragon Balls.
The whole thing about the ToP from DB Super just confirms to me that every race on DB had the potential to be something greater, it's just a matter of consistent training which would have been awesome seeing all the original Z fighters teaming up, sure Freezer and Buu sounded good too but really, having the old group together again would have been a blast.
Basically if the Human Z-Fighters took advantage of every Opportunity that got practically handed to them they would’ve been able to keep up with the Base Saiyans, who would still be ahead due to their Transformations, up until the Buu Saga where learning the Potential Unleashed Form and combining it with the Kaioken will allow them to truly close the gap.
then again, Gohan has ALOT of potential and that could partly come from his saiyan genes/super saiyan forms though like Mystic seem to be around-above ssj3 level I could see the humans potential unleased be around-above the first ssj level
Now this is the kind of thing the Dragon ball Dynasty fanfiction thankfully addressed. The humans in Dragonball have so many opportunities to get stronger than they are in canon. But just don't even when it makes no sense for some characters
Tien overall is such a cool character. With his technique and skills I can legit see him fit in on multiple anime's. Yajirobe could of been cool ( since there's a trend making goofy strong nowadays,which is kinda cool)
Dragonball is not the kind of fiction that think about what characters would do in their situation. Dragonball functions in a way that focuses on whatever the author is interested in, if the author is not interested in you, you got no development. Wasted potential of characters is one example, another example is, when goku was a kid, the earth had lots of fighters that were at his level, but when goku is much older and powerful, the earth somehow stops producing human that are at kid goku's level, no human can control ki now except the existing characters. Another thing is, teleportation is obviously a huge advantage, every serious fighter should learn it, and it would still be largely useful even if you quit fighting, but only goku uses it because it is his trademark move.
With all this said, I think krillin could’ve learned the Kaio-Ken due to the fact that, in the Cell Saga, it was established that Goku could use instant transmission to get to King Kai’s planet. So perhaps Krillin would have asked him at some point to take him there during the 3 year skip between Trunks and the Androids, so that he could train with King Kai for a year ish
pikkon is some I really wish they brought back or did something with! absolutely loved his flamethrower blast he did and would love to see more of that.
I agree that goku learning the spirit bomb probably took time away from getting stronger, but I also think(could be wrong) that the spirit bomb requires a pure heart to wield. I've always wondered tho if king Kai didn't teach them the kaioken because saiyan physiology is better suited for it, as it seems they're more durable and heal faster. If that's true, I still don't see why they couldn't pull of a x2 or maybe a x3 in dire circumstances for short periods, an all or nothing type situation. Still doesn't explain why picollo couldn't learn it tho lol
I always assumed the reason why Goku was the only one to learn the KaioKen was because his Saiyan genes. He used it only 3 times against Vegeta, and although he pushed it himself: It very nearly killed him. Plus, that ability alone wasn't the reason for vegetas defeat so personally I don't think knowing either the Bomb or the Ken would've done much good.
No it's because only those with a pure heart can learn Kaio's techniques ,but it doesn't explain why Goku never made Gohan/Goten learn the Genkidama tho (It's understandable for Kaioken as it's not combinable with SSJ ,and SSJ being stronger and more efficient in term of energy and not taking a toll on the body made Kaioken obsolete) Hell he could even teach Chichi the Kaioken (Even tho she probably wouldn't be able to go above x2) and I think Videl have a pure heart too (Well I don't know if she did mischievious thing but she did beat up criminals)
Many ways the earthlings could get more powerful, using kaioken, learning techniques from yardrats, gravity training, room of spirit and time, potential unlocked bu Guru/Shenron, potential unlocked by Elder Kai, training with Whis, acquiring Ultra Instinct. They could also do something with Tien’s third eye. The reason why they don’t do this is because Toriyama simply doesn’t want to. He’s already introducing new characters that could replace the z fighters like Broly, Gamma 1, etc.
I'm not sure the Mystic ritual would have worked for the other Z fighters the way it did for Gohan because Gohan already had/has this incredible well of untapped power since birth. I mean considering how powerful he was as a toddler with no training and even when he fought Frieza after having that potential unleashed as a kid he was leagues above the rest and even Goku (at the same age), likewise when he had his potential unleashed again, by the elder kai he hadn't been training like he did leading up to the cell games so there was defintiely room for him to recover lost power he previously had. I think training may have raised the Z fighters potential but I think it's also fair to say that training brings one closer to reaching their own potential so I feel like after all that training they had they would have hit a comfortable power cap somewhere between Ascended Vegeta and Super Perfect Cell maybe?
Tien always was and is one of my most fav characters.. it's such a shame how he got thrown to the side.. but piccolo and Gohan have become THE MOST wasted.. we'll see if the new movie changes that or not..
Roshi, and Chiaotzu, are the only super humans in that group I’m not sure about Ox King. chi-chi, and Mister Satan were just exception Martial Artist, who don’t use energy. Videl learned to use energy. With the right training she could be have been up there with the other human fighters
@@earthborn1968 Yajirobe was able to kill Cymbal with ease, Ox King trained under Roshi, and Chichi was using laser beams through her helmet, but I do agree that Mr Satan is just an exceptional martial artist without Ki training
They have no desire to fight except master roshi. But he enjoys seeing his students fight instead. He did volunteer tonight the sayains and go to namek to fight freizan. Roshi is always the goat
Can’t they go to Yardrat as well? Goku could use instant transmission to take them there and they could learn instant transmission along with spirit control and spirit fission, in the DBS manga after Vegeta learns spirit control it gives him such a massive power boost he isn’t even able to control his power at first.
That's why I love those fanfic comics. Unexplored Ideas that were tossed aside by Toriyama like learning Kaioken/Yardrat techniques, wishing for some of them saiyan genes from shenlong or becoming a cyborg with Bulmas help, all of those have been covered in unoficial comics.
In every single DBZ videogames, I always used Tien Yamcha Crilin and Jaozi where possible... They have great charismatic techniques and appeal, in my opinion
"How Strong would the earthlings be if the writers actually cared"
The whole thing about Dragon ball is that if you're not a Saiyan nah if you're not Goku, you don't get wins
@@SmolDoggo dragon ball has been falling off for a long time now
Jojo on the other hand at least cared for other characters other than the MC.
Pretty much
@@Solbrave00 what's funny is that I heard Steelballrun was advertised describing Gyro as the main character.
They would be star busters it would spread out the load of plots around goku and vegeta
The other thing you missed is that characters in Dragon Ball grow at their strongest when they train with a goal or target in mind.
That didn’t even cross my mind. But yeah you’re right. I’ll take that into consideration when I make another video like this.
Unutilized techniques I would say for training by themselves. Tien also has the ability to duplicate himself physically. While I don't know the full technics of this he could effectively half his power and after teaching it to krillin and yamcha they could double their training potential growth on their own and with each other. Just a thought?
So theyvjust have to make their goal Goku's strongest transformation. Instant win.
However, then Goku and Vegeta will also increase their training to stay level (or keep ahead) of Krillin, Tien, and Yamcha
All this leads to base Krillin stomping on Beerus. I will make no further elaborations.
@@Billyblue98 interesting thought though if master roshi as the titled strongest earthling human in super isn't strong enough than it would take a few centuries for them to get to Beerus level strength.
My Lvl 632 Prestige 3 rebirthed Human on dbz fs: HEHEHEHE
The only reason that the humans didn’t get Kaio Ken is because the writers wanted to focus more on the sayians and their shiny new forms.
They do sell more merchandise
King kai refused to teach it to them after Goku abused it
@@justarandomcursedlego5972 well that makes sense.. considering the earthlings aren’t anyway near as durable or genetically blessed in potential as the saiyans..there was no way
@@jayclearmen411 i would not say Sayians are particularly blessed. Goku without his Sayian transformation seemed to be lagging behind in getting stronger in his base form compared to his Human friends. Though if he fights and does not die his Zenkai boost keeps him at an edge. Goku was very very lucky in Dragon Ball. None of the Red Ribbon Army Generals killed him when they could have.
King kai should at least teach piccolo the kaioken might had better chance against frieza in namek saga
The Kaio-Ken could have been the human response to the Super Saiyan transformation. They could even master it and make new "forms", just like the Super Saiyans. It would not be as strong, obviously, but at least they could defend Eart if any of the Saiyans isn't around. The showrunners could even make a sub plot where the Saiyans/Nameks aren't around to defend Earth because they are in some mission, like the Tournament of Power in DB Super or something, and is up to the Earthlings to finally defend their own home Planet.
Personally, i like Tien, Yamcha and Krillin, so it would be cool to see them unlock new powers and transformations, kinda like the fan art of them shown in the video.
I am he, the kaio-ken
@@prodbykaiokenprove it
Not sure how kaioken can be used as a form when it's only a technique to raise one's Ki level plus it can only be used in short bursts before severe impact on the body for too long a use. the drawbacks can get used to but doesn't mean it will be gone. Ultimate can help one break through their limits.
Tien should have gotten the Kaio-Ken. He was already built for it to begin with.
@@Nombrenooriginal im watching porn i cant rn
Tien never really quit....he continued to train as in the Freeza saga but his foes and enemies just started getting stronger faster
It's not just that, he never changed how he trained. Tien's first mistake was not taking up Roshi's offer to train him. Second one and this goes for the other human fighters as well was not training with weighted clothing. Third was not learning Kaioken and fourth was no gravity training.
@@albireotheredguard1599i think tien just isn’t that motivated anymore. although he held himself pretty well against super buu (as in did not die in one page/5 seconds), and did pretty well against the metal man during the moro saga in dbs
@@albireotheredguard1599are you kidding? They DID train with weighted clothes at Kamis lookout. You can see it in Sayian saga.
@@albireotheredguard1599 1 He did train at Roshi's house for a while but by then he had already surpassed Roshi who sent them to train by themselves. 2 He used the kaioken against ginyu but that seemed to be filler. 3 I agree with although he did train on 10x gravity on kai o sama's planet but refused to enter the room of spirit and time strange when they were preparing to go against cell.
@jment34 You're the only one that made actual sense lol
The original Dragon Ball showed consistently that human characters gain more power faster using the same training techniques Goku used. The difference is that Goku had moved on to the next training method by the time they got around to it.
Training with Master Roshi -> Training with Korin -> Training with Kami -> Training with King Kai -> Training with artificial gravity.
At each stage, they get close to his current level despite using his now-abandoned training methods. It's remarkable how much potential human characters had until transformations enter into the picture.
Yet for some reason people keep saying they have no potential. I just don't get it
@@SionReaver Those are just the toxic fans with kiddy mindsets
I think about this a lot. There’s even a scene of Tenshinhan on King Kai’s planet in the manga where he’s thinking to himself that he will never catch up to Goku if he’s always one step behind his training, and he realizes that if he wants to compete he’s going to have to combine King Kai’s techniques with his own to improve them. Even that late in the series he was still being written as if he believed he could remain a rival to Goku, and specifically that superior techniques would be his ace in the hole. It’s almost as if seeing Super Saiyan broke his ambition because, for the first time, Goku opened up a seemingly insurmountable power gap with a method that was impossible for him to replicate. From that point on he remained committed to training and being HIS best, but he had to accept that his former ambition to be THE best was just no longer realistic.
This is also why it sort of irks me how much stronger Goku and Vegeta have become even in their base forms. It’s one thing for them to have transformations that leave everyone else in the dust, but having their base forms so far above everyone is just like pouring salt in the wound.
@@bovinejoni4243 Exactly. And I blame it on Toriyama and the other writers involved
"If they actually tried"
Tenshinhan is crying at the corner because he is the only one that keeps training.
Man the writers hate that guy
Also Chaozu erasure. Dude trains just as much as Tenshinhan
😂😂😂
Poor Tien. One of these days he’ll be useful. Maybe.
Dude had his gf erased from existence and his character arc of being a villain was dropped.
toriyama hates him cause he’s chinese i think
Tien should 100% be way stronger than the rest of the humans, not only does he train harder and more, but he is also part tri-clops which should give him an extra boost and more abilities (which got tossed aside after dragon ball unfortunately)
Honestly with how crazy human techniques can get, if they trained there would be no show at all. Frieza nearly got done by Krilin with the kienzan which he narrowly avoided for example, then there's absolutely everyone using the solar flare because it's just that good of a thing, the mafuba also used to trap opponents, etc. Humans in dragon ball are underrated AF.
That's a good point. The biggest failure on DBZ's part was relying too much on power & transformations, rather than techniques. The humans have some really impressive special moves, but they just lack the power for it to matter most of the time.
Yeah original dB tapped into this a lot, they should revisit a lot of the ideas there. Liketien can stop ko in its track with kiai, chiaotzu‘s esp is a power entirely different from ki, and hidden magic users can be more dangerous than just power lvl, like baba who can bring back dead warriors for 1 one day, the Rabbit gangster that can turn people into carrots, etc
Another example is Roshi's lightning surprise. It let him immobilize Oozaru Goku, who was vastly stronger than the old man back then. Who's to say that the humans couldn't learn it as a stalling or set-up move. Throw in the power boost from this efficient training, and they might be able to at least stun the likes of DBS Frieza, thought maybe not the golden form.
without mentioning that Tien & Chaozu were the first ones capable to use the Bukujutsu technique ( flying )
@@lynnusuk2092 i mean they did kinda have moro who could use magic
I absolutely LOVE the fact that they got so much stronger, but at the same time the story didn't change
Yeah cause its always a clusterfuck realizing current krillin bodies namek frieza
Dragon ball scaling is a Geometric progression:
Goku trains 3 years with Kami-sama in db classic and gains approx 100 power level
Earthlings trains 1 year with kamisama and gains approx 500-700 power level
But Piccolo in 23th is 10 times weaker than Nappa, so the earthlings improvements don't matter
Krillin got a lot of boosts in Namek saga, if i'm not mistaken he got 10 times stronger with a unlocking potential. Probably would have more chances against saiyan saga Vegeta than with Nappa 1 month earlier. But it doesn't matter anymore. The Ginyu force is much stronger, Only Goku with a power up bigger than the others could win.
Earthlings also reached Kaio planet faster, gained more power than Goku in the same amount of time, but it doesn't matter anymore, because freeza 1st form power level is 30x higher than vegeta in saiyan saga and he is said to be 240x stronger than 1st form with 100% of power, Goku with a lot of gravity training, using and abusing of Zenkai and using his power multiplier (Kaioken) Was not enough to defeat a 50% freeza. Vegeta also got an absurd Zenkai after being cured by Dende, but Goku is still stronger and has Kaioken, will be a SSJ soon.
But Earthlings improve faster? No, because Goku had the same training of Krillin as Roshi apprentice before 21th tournament but Goku seems to improve in a faster rate, and you see the earthlings training hard with Master Roshi before 21th and 22th tournament, they trained enough, but they are not Goku so their power level will rise less in that saga.
Is just that each saga everyone gains some power, and each saga the power gained is bigger, master Roshi used to have less than 1000 of power level, that's enough to be very strong on DB, but in DBZ it's irrelevant. Master Roshi have decades and decades of training but could not take down Radditz or Vegeta so he didn't even showed up in that sagas. But seems in DBS they gave him power enough to beat things stupidly stronger with months of training? He can even teach Goku something after a long time(Dumb Goku of Super Version) But his power doesn't matter cause enemies are much stronger now. Ex: If sayains Got 10x10²² stronger, earthlings will get 9x10¹² stronger. Is strong enough to take down the enemy of the previous saga, but the current enemy is much stronger, and saiyans were stronger back than and gained more power.
*i didn't watched the video yet, don't know what they will say.
*I just saw DBS summary. I know they throwed Goku development in the trash can and made him dumber than in classic DB. Now DBS is less canonic than GT cause the story can't follow all requeriment needed to be the same history of last chapter of the manga. I don't have problems with who see DBS or DBGT, however i only watch DB and DBZ cause is a lot better in every aspect in my opinion.
Yep. The video used my arguments with more research (but without considering that db power leves are actually a Geometric Progression). And the character gain strength if it is convenient, Goku gained a lot of power in 1 day, but even training to face androids he didn't ''earned'' so much power. When they had to face Cell Goku and Gohan gained more power in 11 months in hyperbolic chamber than Vegeta and Trunks 23 months. Is not about training, is about who is meant to be stronger in that arc. Human in fact would never be stronger cause saiyans would increase more in the same time.
The Kaioken thing was forgotten because it was weaker than SSJ. Even Goku stopped using it. If Piccolo learnt Kaioken he would take down androids after fusing with Kami, but it's simply not meant to be.
But it is a good video. Some arguments i probably don't know how to say something against.
Nah named frieza still claps krill in ez his attack how he destroyed saiyans planet is waaay stronger than anything krillin has lmao
@@ninjajin8788 be able to match goku blue
Also note that for most of their histories, Saiyans couldnt transform either. Its entirely possible that there is some hidden super human form that has been lost to martial arts history.
They could make Roshi buff form one and just say Master Roshi never taught them because he can only use it for a few minutes. Let the new humans master the form.
I think that's from where Gohan's Ultimate Beast Form comes from its definitely not a Super Saiyan Form as it doesn't change Hair Colour, its definitely a Super Human Form, Humans can't use it due to their Potential being Locked and Gohan can use it due to him also being Half Saiyan, and Saiyans are known for reaching their Potential easily, Human Emotions is also something makes Super Saiyan Forms or just any other transformation Stronger because Potential of Emotional Intelligence of Humans has outmatched Saiyans Battle Lusted Nature
I like to think that Mystic form would be especially helpful for Tien. Back in Dragonball Master Roshi said that Tien was the most talanted fighter that he has seen, and that was after training Goku. And it was also said that Training under Shen sealed away some of the mystic powers of Tien's Triclops heritage. Hopefully the mystic form would unlock those abilities.
Yes!! i’d love to see this done eventually!
Hmm that's a good point
Where was the latter stated?
unlocks mystick jamtcha activates it and kick in kaiocen x20 wiht little strain and keeps up wiht the saians
Yamtcha:huh neet im releveant now
tien gets mystick holds up on it and meditates on this new unlock a while latter is face to face wiht kid buu
.activates mystick forms transforms into the manyhanded budda and activcates kaiocen x30 wihute strain
Tien:look upon the face of the mighty buda and kneel (then proseeds to vaporise kid buu wiht the ultimet tri beam)
never knew that before about tien. he deserved to keep up and be at least krillin level. smh. got done soo dirty in the piccolo n gohan pre TOP fight.
lol. damn that still hurts to watch everytime... poor tien.
its sad toriyama never cared to buff the humans as dbz went on. u figured tien and yamcha would at least learn kaioken or something while
at kais planet. even tho their bodies couldnt go past the base kaioken power. they could slowly overcome that and make their bodies stronger
thru years of training tho i think. such wasted potential indeed. 😟😔
Can't wait until Tien unlocks the powers hidden behind his third eye.
Krillin will then unlock the Buddha's Palm.
If it comes down to it, Yamcha might just use 0.00001% of his power
These ideas would actually be an interesting way to give the earthlings power ups. Just a little brainstorming and the earthlings could’ve had something to keep up.
@@BeanBoiYami The ideas for Krillin and Tien were kinda serious cause I feel like Krillin and Tien fr coulda had more. They just gave Krillin Solar Flare x100 and called it a day. A shame in my opinion. I seriously just didn't know what to do with Yamcha. Some type of Super Spirit Ball? Like Spirit Bomb but he can make it fly around and control it like a spirit ball? Idk...
I mean I guess something about a wolf power up idk. Yeah I agree Yamcha is a weird one
@@BeanBoiYami Maybe something like it looks like he's charging a blast but then crushes it and makes a blade glove of ki. Or it being similar to the dragon fist but instead of being a punch it's a multi hitting brutal slashing attack. A super wolf fang fist or Slashing wolf fang fist.
@@BeanBoiYami i once had an idea for Yamcha to defeat stronger opponents. Perform spirit ball, then compress it until it's a size of rice grain. Then navigate it inside enemy throu mouth and detonate. Yamcha could have such great ki control due to spirit ball itself
Yeah it is really sad that the earthlings are ingnored especially Tenshin-Han
Yeah it really does. I understand it was easier to focus on one race, but there was so much that could’ve been done with the earthlings. Here’s to hoping that they become more relevant in the future.
@@BeanBoiYami like Roshi, we saw how much of his potential he could tap into, this was seen in the tournament of power
@Haku Yuki couldnt agree with you more
.
Tien
i feel like the greatest wasted opportunity is definitely tien
he has one of the most powerful techniques that he regularly uses, his tri-beam is able to stop semi-perfect cell despite the MASSIVE difference in power, for him to delay him as much as he did where others were barely able to fight semi-perfect cell, i feel like if he continued training and honing his skills, by the time the universe tournament came around tien would have been a far stronger competitor
That's one of the reasons why Super has trash writing. In the Buu saga, Tenshinhan could hurt Buu (albeit only slightly) with his Kikoho, then in DBS Roshi is somehow stronger.
@@Gabu_ they did my man tien dirty in super
i STILL think the tri-beam is the strongest ability in terms of its ratio of user's power level to what it can impact
tien during the cell saga is estimated to have ~1,000,000 power level (depends on the source) while similar sources rank semi-perfect cell at ~720,000,000
tien was suppressing (and somewhat damaging) semi-perfect cell with his neo tri-beam at a 720:1 power level difference
during the buu saga, super buu was entirely immune to the tri-beam effect, but has a power level of ~24,000,000,000 and way above tien's power level
He literally never stopped training, he should be the strongest earthling by far. I guess the writers just don't like him.
Tien should be always close to piccolo in terms of power and piccolo should be equal to vegeta or gohan.
@@binzarsimorangkir8432 facts
There's a fan manga called "a new hope", which it's a "What if Cell won and killed everyone". And it's actually really good, the artist took a lot of effort in making the drawings very similar to the original manga. But the point is, in this Manga Crilin gets a lot of screentime and it shows how strong he could have been.
I love that fan manga, making krillin an actual goated z warrior
Being turned into androids would also be a huge boost. Gero and the twins had no training and yet were around and above a normal super saiyan. So imagine someone who did train and have Kaioken were made into androids. Also androids don't seem to tire out so they have more time to train.
18 & 17 have generators that give them infinite power -- other than that ; they're human --
ok and what if the sayians were turned into androids ever thought about that
@@mrpoopybuttface that would be a big boost but I doubt Goku and Vegeta would do it. They probably view it as cheating or a shortcut now their kids might be more open to the idea of becoming androids.
they wouldnt want that though
Haha reminds me of dragon ball new hope. Krillin does become an android (cyborg) and is able to rival a stronger Super Perfect Cell.
There's also another way for them to become more useful, Yardrat. Goku could use Instant Transmission to bring them there so they could learn things like Instant Transmission or Forced Spirit Fission. Since the Saiyan Trio are the powerhouses with very basic moves usually coming down to just Ki Blast or Physical Fighting skill it would be fitting if The Human Trio became more Tactical, learning things that help them win in other ways besides just overpowering their opponents. If the Saiyan Trio fights Harder then the Human Trio fights Smarter.
So I plan on making a video about the same concept, but going into Dragon Ball super and I think your idea is absolutely brilliant and I’ll try to implement it in.
@@BeanBoiYami Thanks man. Your ideas are pretty solid too. I like how you had them use the gravity room I honestly never thought of that. Good luck with the video
Look at how well Roshi does in the Tournament of Power in Super. He knows all sorts of techniques and can defend against things nobody else ever imagined.
Technique reversal and Beam deflection still exist
Energy Beam judo could make an appearance
@@r.connor9280 In Super, Hit proved that refining one's technique can be just as effective as transformations and raw power multipliers.
I think it’s yamcha…he got done dirty…too dirty
He actually was a pretty good fighter and had potential. His cocky attitude usually got him in trouble and defeated and he gets mocked and laughed at then you literally have vegeta who goes through pretty much the same thing and he has all the fans respect in the world.
Vegeta pretty much gets yamcha’ed through out the serious only putting up slightly more of a fight only to get wrecked. So the treatment of yamcha was kinda just unfair lol
Yeah but he’s human and humans are trash, even irl. 😅
For real Vegeta literally goes through more humiliation than Yamcha. Most of his life he was a bitch to frieza then when he was free of him he got overconfident and got his ass kicked consistently until he finally grew up. Worst thing that happened to yamcha was getting cucked.
@@Blurred__dots you're the example he's texting about
Tien got done dastardly
Yamcha lost it vs Tien and since then he is over...
About the potential unlock and mystic form, it's worth noticing that Guru can't unlock ALL of the user's potential, because Gohan also received it, but still got mystic form and a massive boost from it.
What if the potential also accounts for training loss, you never gain at 100% regardless of how hard you train, what if the PU from GURU was his current potential, with training that innate potential may have been boosted along with his actual power until it was unlocked later by the Kai.
Guru unlock Gohan potential when Gohan was still a kid. He unlock what Gohan potential was at that age. Old Kai unlocked the potential for a fully grown adult with his body being at its prime
@@johnlequebecois Yeh that works too. Probably a better one than mine.
@@johnlequebecois
That actually isn't the issue. Gohan as an adult had the ability to transform into ssj2. The mystic form is unlocking his potential including the transformations. When Gohan was questioning old Kai about using his unlocked power he told him to use the same manner in which he transformed to do it.
It's almost like Toriyama was writing a manga week by week and often forgets his own continuity.
I’d argue that krillin having a family just gives a bigger reason to get stronger. If someone pulls up he’d need to fight for them. He’s one of my top favorite characters and it sucks that they just let him waste away and get slumped by literally anyone on a power trip☠️🗿
Krillin is also stated by Toriyama to be the strongest Earthling, and that is with his only training across the 7 years probably being some sparing matches with 18. Tien had been training the entire time (even if ineffectively). If anything Krillin should at least have a substantially higher base than the others.
hes a fucking midget earthling bruh let him chill w 18 nowadays lucky ahh cos i bred 18 no cap
@@sadscientisthououinkyouma1867 i would have loved if krillin and 18 were just constantly sparring as a way of flirting with each other.
@@Fulldrewhat type of sparring we talkin?
There’s one big missed opportunity that actually had some seeds planted in the series, and that’s Tenshinhan continuing to be innovative with his techniques.
When he’s on King Kai’s planet, there’s a moment where he acknowledges that he’ll never catch up to Goku if he’s always one step behind his training, and he specifically realizes that he will have to be creative with the techniques he learns from King Kai if he wants to compete. Here’s the direct quote from the manga:
“I cannot hope to surpass Goku at the same training regiment, but if I master the essentials of the technique and add a few twists of my own, I should be able to avoid another humiliating defeat.”
That right there plants the seeds for what I think was probably the biggest missed opportunity. Tenshinhan in Dragonball was like a Swiss Army knife of crazy techniques, and that could’ve continued throughout DBZ to both make him more relevant *and* keep some of that Dragonball spirit alive.
There are some glaringly obvious ways he could’ve followed through with his stated intention to master King Kai’s techniques and adapt them for himself. He has one signature technique in particular that almost perfectly synergizes with Kaio-Ken, and that’s the multi-form technique.
Think about it like Tenshinhan is a balloon and his ki is the air inside the balloon.
Kaio-Ken is like blowing more air into the balloon. The problem is that the balloon is being over-inflated beyond its natural limits, so doing it too many times or pushing it too far could pop the balloon.
On the slip side, multi-form creates identical copies of the balloon, but it can’t increase the amount of air from the original balloon, so what you end up with are significantly deflated balloons.
So what happens if you combine these two techniques? In theory, multi-form creates the deflated balloons and Kaio-Ken inflates them up to full size.
Doing this, Tenshinhan could produce any number of full-powered clones, and the usual drawbacks of Kaio-Ken wouldn’t be an issue because it wouldn’t be pushing the bodies past their normal limits. The strength of each technique eliminates the weakness of the other. Now tell me a whole army of Tenshinhans wouldn’t have been useful.
And that’s not even getting into all the possibilities of someone like Tenshinhan mastering “the essentials” of the Genki Dama and then coming up with ways to use that technique other than simply gathering energy into a ball for one massive explosion. When you get down to it, the essential element of the technique is the ability to draw on external energy rather than relying exclusively on your own internal ki. Making a spirit bomb is just the most blunt, simplistic application of that ability. Someone who mastered the technique and got more creative with it could essentially do much of what Moro did with his magic.
You could even bring Chiaotzu into the mix. He could’ve been the one to master the Genki Dama technique and put it to use as a support class character, gathering the energy and feeding it to Tenshinhan to use so he doesn’t have to stand there with his arms over his head during a battle. With his psychic powers, maybe he could’ve learned to forcibly drain energy from opponents rather than needing to ask nicely. This would actually be a fitting ability for him considering his character design is based on an energy-draining Chinese vampire.
The more you think about it, the more possibilities you unlock. It’s just such a bummer that Toriyama teased us with that one thought bubble from Tenshinhan and then never followed up on it in the slightest. The biggest missed opportunity for sure.
underrated comment.
What a missed opportunity.
At least he slowed down cell
Bro, this was such a good read and an excellent thought. I'm pretty sure you put thought in this comment than Toriyama did in the entire Dragon Ball series.
I agree. I always was having imaginary fights in my imagination as a kid. Coming up with clever ways Tien could still win fights or at least compete, matching his creativity against stronger opponents. He just seemed like the type of character who would do that.
This is how see the Human Trio advancing
Kaioken: This becomes their signature technique like SSJ for the Saiyans.
Spirit Bomb: When they are in a Pinch they'd pull their power together and use the Spirit Bomb, this could help them actually do damage to serious threats without having them just wait around for everyone on Earth to contribute
Yardrat: They'd have Instant Transmission and maybe Force Spirit Fission. They'd become more Tactical Fighters. Saiyans Fight Harder, They fight Smarter.
Specific Abilities: Krillin would learn how to make Constructs like his Destructo Disk so Blades, Hammers, Shields and other things to help in Combat. Tein would Master the Multi form Technique and use Kaioken to stop it from splitting his Power. His signature would be to make 2 Clones and have them use the Tri Beam with him. Yamcha would learn something similar to Krillin's Construct Ability and form an actual Wolf with his Ki, it would be used to take attacks for him and also attack on his behalf. They would all improve with the Solar Flare and combine with the Spirit Bomb to make an actual Sun out of Ki which they'd use offensively. This is just my vision on what they could've done but there are definitely better ideas out there on how things could've went down.
It felt that they got cheated out of those opportunities. Those ideas would serve them well against stronger enemies.
@@neosonic199 If only my friend. If only
Oooh. Maybe yamchas spirit ball can become ki bombs. Like having three in each hand or circling around him
Ki constructs need more utilization in general. Trunks used a spirit bomb ki contruct in the anime, maybe that could be something krillin and yamcha do too to add to the fact they learn ki contructs and spirit bomb
One of my biggest issues with the ToP was the fact that none of the fighters got trained by the angels to prepare for the battle ahead.
Yeah I think they had enough time to get into the time chamber for at least a few months wich would put them at an even higher level than they were
They weren't trained by any of the angels because it would have been a waste of time. Ya'll are delusional as fuck lol
Also you’re introducing dozens of fighters from other universes with all sorts of crazy abilities, but the human z-fighters couldn’t showcase any new techniques of their own? It was the perfect setup to have them contribute with interesting new techniques rather than raw power, but no, they just tried their usual stuff and got KOd almost immediately.
Yeah. When you consider that. Universe 7 had an unfair advantage with 2 angel trained characters. One of wich was itching for the tourney way longer then anyone else.
The rest of the universes had like a 5 minute notice to gather their team in preparation of death.
@@1slayer959That Universe 7 privilege goes hard
2:26 I cried the music brought back so much nostalgia holy shit
The humans always showed more discipline than their stronger opponents
I feel like they should have gotten much more powerful as ki techniques reached them. The practiced humans already had incredible ki control, and learning how to harness and improve their ki through the kais and other cosmic allies
I'm going to say Chiaotzu is the most wasted. Him and Tien but mostly Chiaotzu. He is the only character who could have a large magical/psychic arsenal but Toriyama didn't pursue that, deciding to just make everyone fight identically with punches and ki-blasts.
I for one am in favor of the current form of dragon ball lol. im all in for the power ups.
@@commenteroftruth9790 We could have had both
Ki is used for most magical techniques, so really anybody could have a large whacky arsenal.
@@AnimatorBlake Not really. Most magic are mostly godlike level or telekinetic stuff. Moro never used ki for his magic, neither Dendé or even Chiaotzu. magic and ki are 2 separate thing as ki is life energy and magic is simply magic. Most magic user in DB are natural and never trained to use it while anythingki related need training
Martial arts not being a factor in DBZ was a huge let-down too. Even Buu should have been outclassed against anyone knowing a speck of martial arts that was tangentially near his power level. Not sure if Vegeta knew any martial arts by then but those fights would have been looking a little different other than Cell's, which may be argued that he knows all of their moves genetic...ally?
I feel like Tein should definitely be the strongest of the Earthlings as he is consistent with his training and he should've been used a lot more due to his unique skill set and techniques.
that an him being half tricyclops!
Facts
@@jayclearmen411 I think the 3rd eye is just the eye of enlightenment rather than Tien being an alien.
Yah he was always stronger before.
Tien put a beatdown on Cell but everyone seems to forget that chapter
Wolf fang fist is one of the coolest moves in dragon ball history. And it’s a shame that we didn’t see it in the z series
Facts
Well FighterZ showed players how badass this move is
@@GenJuhru would of been nice to see a super charged version of this movie. 🤷🏻♀️ when I look at other manga is a crying shame how far the other characters got dropped. If you look at something like yu yu haka at the end all the characters are about relative in strength to each other
Budkai on the ps2 made it suck
I think a better upgrade would be to do something similar to hinata for the wolf fang fist, like charge it so it wasn't so much as a physical attack but both a physical and ki attack to deal extra damage or perhaps increase its effective range.
That's one of the things I really appreciate about fan mangas and animations. They often spend more time showing love to the characters that got left behind. This was a great video!
I feel like it would have been really cool if Tien learned Kioken and Yamcha learned the spirit ball as it fits their fighting styles quite well. Tien is known for sacrificing his body for power and putting his all into a fight as well as playing tactically enough to get the most out of a boost like this. Yamcha on the other hand likely isn't as likely to rush in guns blazing, sitting on the sidelines fearful about getting blown up again. Using this tone he'd actually be great for setting up spirit bomb and could combine it with his spirit ball in order to have greater control over his massive attack, not nearly as easily able to move it of course, but it would still be a unique usage of a skill we've already seen.
Nice thought! I read all of it 👍🏻
Imagine if Yamcha is able to create a smaller spirit bomb, but is more mobile than the regular big blue orb. So he can control it like Spirit ball, probably not do the same kind of damage but being able to manipulate it araound makes it a very threatening weapon against evil foes.
I agree with Tien having Kaio Ken he would be the type of guy to recklessly push his limits.
Krillin I feel should have unlocked Mystic like Gohan. I feel that the ultimate god like form for any human to achieve is Supreme Kai or at that level
Yamcha ALWAYS runs into battle, what are you taking about? Krillen usually is the coward hiding and holding back from action
@@Phoenix-pm2qr If he never got killed by the saibaman, you'd probably be right, but his characterization changed pretty drastically after that. Sure he took on the Ginyu force, but that was because he had backup and was way overpowered compared to them, sure he went against doctor Gero, but that was really just him trying to help with scouting, he didn't show any intention of directly fighting, Gero took the fight to him. After that, he never fights again, and the one time he tried to train, he got in over his head, and instead of accepting his limitations and working within them to get better, he gave up.
It would be dope if master roshi took the humans to the fountain of youth. Also you would think they would be able to learn a version of kaioken since humans can use ki control better considering raditz and Vegeta was surprised by their ability to suppress their ki, sense it, as well as use techniques like the destructo disc.
Wait fountain of youth I thought Roshi was 900 years old cause he drank the immortal elixir the Phoenix that died of food poisoning had
Well Gohan has the biggest potential in the series and is stated because of his human nature. Ki is tied to emotions and not jus rage this is why goku and Gohan are the strongest, goku is human like and Gohan is actually human ..also the human have the better techniques in general which is shown by mater roshi martial art which brings him closer to UI then anything in the mortal world and the original komaha blast which is planet busting.. literally yumcha krillian and tian would stop and invasion of king vegeta by themselves post cell arc if goku was never a thing ..what about distructo dick which was able to damage some over 100 times his powerlevel? Or spirit ball or tri bean which literally had form 2 cell stuck in place ? Bro the humans have the shit to be broken .they have techniques that can damage people multiple times thier level which is usually not a think in dragon ball
Good vid bro. Yea, you covered all the key points. The thing that makes it hard to call is the earthlings turned down a lot of things not because they couldn't do it but because they felt they weren't on the same level of whatever threat was there at the time. Goku invites Krillin and Yamcha to train but they turn it down because they think they can't keep up with him. Tien turns down the Chamber because he felt the gap between him and Cell was too high. But since Most of them trained on King Kai's planet which had 10 times the gravity it stands to reason they could handle the gravity room or the chamber if they actually tried. I think if all three trained in a gravity room together there would be a big increase for sure. I guess it could have happened in theory after Freeza arc but before the Androids.
Thank you and Yeah they didn’t have the mindset to keep up. I don’t blame them though, the villains were showing up ridiculously stronger then the last one and they had friends who could just “go blonde” and gain a crazy increase of power. But they shouldn’t have given up when that hit that wall.
@@BeanBoiYami I think there's a missed opportunity for some really good storytelling and character development, too. Like, the humans are clearly the underdogs, and perseverance in the face of impossible odds and coming through for your friends is one of the pillars at the heart of Dragon Ball. What better way to explore that theme than by having the humans refuse to give up and still find ways to meaningfully contribute?
Lol technically yamcha tries after Frieza saga cuz he gets jealous of Vegeta lol. And actually doesn't do too bad considering it's 300x grav.. he could've def worked his way up to it
@@frankbarrie6785 sadly that's not in the manga. But yeah, if it did happen he could have easily start from x10 times and then go slowly up. It would be so much better result, and clearly they could do it.
Toriyama literally had every opportunity in the book to improve some of his characters.
But instead chose to focus on the Saiyans every time, and that’s why Tien and Yamcha are in the state they are now.
And now he gets mad people like the Saiyans instead of the characters he gave no attention to throughout the entire series of DBZ and DBS.
@@NoriniaThat’s why DBS has bs in it.
@Norinia Lmao he does not get mad. He doesn't even work on dragonball anymore, stfu.
@@Norinia .
It's a normal thing to do - to move to new themes and keep yourself to your protagonists.
And there is nothing that stops him to explore those themes in the future. Especially Super has been very fresh and breaking from the power-up loop that DBZ had. Main characters reached physical mastery, so now are going into more mental and skill growth. Vegeta especially has been using so many new specialistic techniques and he is pretty much God of Destruction in training at this point.
And Super Heroes and Tournament of Power showed he can bring more to the old cast. There is nothing that says they couldn't make Krillin character arc after this, as Super Heroes challenged him on new levels. Or we may get another adventure arc reflecting GT (as he has reused a lot of his ideas that was given into creation of GT).
With Yamcha, he should’ve learned the spirit bomb. With his already solid control of ki, he could’ve made that technique scary as it was supposed to be
I’d be so down for an earthlings only film or mini series, give them some character development and a threat that they have to manage without the Sayians. I think if done right, it’d be an instant classic
Honestly, I would’ve loved to see Yamcha and Tien continue to get stronger. After the Frieza Arc, I feel like most of the earthlings just stopped.
What, you mean Yamcha literally never fighting again and the only cool thing Tien doing is "holding back the worst form of a bug man only for him to transform anyway" isn't good enough for you?
@@hadesKIU actually quite a generosity we got from the writes we can surely see how much they favorite the humans over the saiyans
@@hadesKIU semi-perfect Cell
@hadesKIU To be fair that "worst form" bug man was pretty strong, and tien was about 500x weaker than him. Pretty nice accomplishment imo
@@Bruh_but_why Out of context, it was super badass. In context, it becomes a ton worse
He not only failed in the end, but if he had arrived sooner, he would've killed Imperfect Cell. I SWEAR by that.
SIXTEEN almost killed Imperfect Cell. What happened when Imp Cell transformed? 16 couldn't even make him budge. Meanwhile, Tien roasted him for FOUR HOURS. If he did THAT to SP Cell, then Imp Cell would have no chance.
Also the "worst form of a bug man" is a Plague of Gripes reference.
It's insane because the Earthlings just get thrown aside and was just completely hindered of their skills after the Freiza saga, so much of so that they just became ''Low Power'' Assistants for Goku's battles. Android 17 got a little respect towards the end of the Goku Vs Jiren battle, but the humans, still very, very little.
While FAR from my favorite character, Chiaotzu omission from this scenario is criminal:
He was the obvious choice to learn the Spirit Bomb on King Kai's planet, while the others were learning Kio Ken.
He would take to Yardrak techniques easier than the other Earthlings, and possibly the Mystic Form as well.
Chiaotzu would be a 'glass cannon' in combat, but a ridiculously helpful support character/staff.
After the Saiyan Saga, it seems like everyone just forgot he was a fighter and wasn’t just Tien’s sidekick
In DB if youre strong youre durable lol, there are no glass cannons.
@@JayEm1325Yeah, and that's one of DBs major flaws. If you have a higher power level, you're not just stronger, but you're also faster and more durable. Can't do much in those circumstances if your power level is lower
@@Bruh_but_why agreed 100% not even teamwork is viable except for that one time it did vs Raditz lol
@@JayEm1325 Even then, the power level difference between raditz and goku wasn't that big, (at least not as big as the power creep later on in the story). Now imagine tien doing that to someone like frieza
Android 17 : you know I'm an earthling right? Did I notnmake you people proud in the tournament?
One thing that seems strange is that during the sayin saga the earthlings using training from kami became easily more powerful then raditz in the 1 year training time period as opposed to Goku back during dragon ball. One thing that I see a bit during DBZ is that the earthing's go through some sort of training later on and seemingly surpass the original threshold in prior arcs
Yes and also imagine that it took Roshi 50 years just to learn the kamehameha and Roshi was considered pretty strong back in the days. He even held his own in ToP. Power scaling is so bad in DBZ it's best just to ignore all those power levels. They fcked up
@@jeroenvdw He didn't learn the Kamehéméha. He created it back in a era where KI was newly discovered (By Master Mutaito) and didn't have big enemy popping out every year. The only thing driving Roshi was his rivalry with Shen (which is why Roshi never wanted to learn the flying technique)
@@jeroenvdw Creating a technique is much more time consuming than just learning it. Especially since barely anyone knew about ki.
They could also use the dragon balls for a poeer boost. And learned new techniques like instant transmission and many other offensive and defensive powers. Lacking pure raw power, can be made up with an arsenal of many many techniques to pull up their sleeves
While I’m not really fond of the idea of using the dragon balls. I will say it did cross my mind a couple time. But I’m making another video going into super. Where they’ll focus more on certain techniques, because trying to keep up with SSG and SSB is damn near impossible. Even if the humans used God-ki
Love the last sentence, Krillin is the perfect example
@@BeanBoiYami I think they could possibly keep with God's if they actually trained with Whis and Beerus. Being a Saiyan doesn't give any inherent advantage to manipulating God ki. Vegeta was just a Super Saiyan 2 at the most and most of the training he did to get God Ki had to be done in base form first. As stated in this video, if they could rival the base forms of the Saiyans, they could reasonably learn to use God Ki as Vegeta did just by training alone.
You could even make the argument they could learn Ultra Instinct a little easier since they were never reliant on transformations anyway and were always pure martial artists.
I most definitely agree and I’m already saying that at most they’ll be relative to super saiyan 3 (god-ki) Goku in Dbs maybe a little stronger with the use of kaiokenx10-20 stacked on mystic. Which is nothing to sneeze at. That’s insanely strong. But since Ssg and Ssb are insanely stronger than ssj1-3. I don’t have an answer for them at the moment. So why not focus on some of their techniques instead and come back to their power later. Either way I’ll try to cover everything in the next video. UI included.
I headcanon that Tien could potentially Learn UI pretty quickly, at least quicker then Goku did. Also If they Stacked God Ki with there Ultimate Forms it could potentially increase its power by an unknown but pretty big amount, possibly giving them a SSG level or higher form.
My favorite earthling is Yamcha. Right along with Krillin. They're probably my favorite characters among all Dragon Ball Z and I'm actually very happy that they sort of redeemed them in the Moro Arc.
Me too! I was so happy for Yamcha to start training with Piccolo and Gohan, and to be right back on the same level as Tien and Krillen. Plus he got a win vs Moros guards. Hopefully Yamcha gets more love moving forward. Plus, he now has a GF in DB Heros
One thing to mention, I believe that their potential unleashed may be a fair amount larger, just due to two reasons, one characters in the show grow in their potential, Gohan for example went from buu saga level, to blue Kaioken level in his potential unleashed form, showing a growth in potential, and meaning if Krillin had his potential unlocked during the buu saga, the power he would obtain would likely be larger. Second, guru does state that he could only tap into a chuck of potential not all of it, meaning there was still room to grow in terms of potential. Anyway, great video!
Not a single mention of Yajirobe when he's the dude that singlehandedly defeated Vegeta and saved the entire planet
I see how it is
I'm pretty sure that Yamcha and Ten Shin Han could manage the Kaio-Ken in their own way, Yamcha maybe uses the Kaio-Ken with his Wolf Style technique, for example all that power up but only in his hands or arms (yes, something similar that Luffy does with his Gear Second). Another comment said about how Ten could use King Kai techniques and its perfect. Krilin after Cell Saga could have trained with 18 and be pretty strong and durable, in Super they show how he improved old techniques and maybe thats the best for him.
IM so glad he touch on mystic with Kaioken. Mystic, or potential unleashed, is basically bringing everything you got and just unleash it all, but Kaioken is a type of meditation stance that lets you multiply your power as a whole. I always pair up Kaioken with PU and I wished the creators used this sooner.
I really wish they kept the earthlings relevant as they keep getting shadowed by people who are naturally more gifted with strength but still manage to barely keep up through hard work is a perfect message for young fans that just because you aren’t as biologically gifted as them doesn’t mean you can’t be as good as them. I’d also think that them being weaker than goku and vegeta would be a good thing as it could make a great dynamic as they could work as a trio to overcome problems rather than just being stronger than it yourself
It's good to encourage hard work to bridge gaps. But realistically if you aren't as biologically gifted as someone sadly you won't be able to grow as strong.
The reason why they didn't keep up is because there are only two earthlings who are relevant to the story in any capacity and that was yamcha and krillin out of those two only krillin kept training while yamcha stopped because he saw that he would never catch up but he is leagues above any normal human being
I strongly agree with the limited training resources. The exact same problem happens with kuwabara in yyh where is his development and potential is extremely hampered because he's mostly self taught with only a few months of training with kurama who had to focus on himself and him. while yusuke is focused on by an extremely skilled teacher. Considering later on, he developed dimensional cutting abilities but is not trained by Genkai but instead forced into studying is a waste. It's one of biggest flaws in most older anime.
anime writers are lazy to put all the characters on a equal stage. the same thing also happened in part 1 OG Naruto to Naruto part 2 shippuden.then i realize in the Boruto anime all the new gen are getting new jutsu at an equal pace but the Naruto fans hate Boruto though its an improvement in terms of writing the new gen characters getting equaled power ups anime I noticed this in Boruto.
Except Yusuke is a half demon himself. Even without his teacher, Yusuke would still be alot stronger then Kuwabara.
@@haroldcruz8550 yes. But with proper training, refinement, dimensional energy, the flexibility of his regular weapon and scared energy he doesn't have to be stronger than yusuke because his abilities would allow him to punch above his weight class, protect himself better or move around in ways the others can't.
Kuwabara training under Genkai instead of Kurama, training during the three kings and actually having good fights would do nothing to harm the story at all. He could have been a legend.
The one major issue I had with DB Super was that they didn't rebalance the Earthlings with the God Ki plot point. God Ki seemed like the perfect answer as to how to make the rest of the z fighters relevant compared to all the Super Saiyan power ups.
I've been reading so much cultivation manhua that I literally see everything about DBZ as a cultivation story. I mean think about it, a martial arts world filled with characters able to use chi, Roshi living for hundreds of years because he's a martial arts master, it honestly made no sense to me how humans didn't decide to take advantage of the mechanics of the world. Like how is ki stored, is there a way to increase Ki storage? What if there's a dantian? My bad I've become addicted.
Roshi did not live for hundreds of years. Where the fuck did you get that idea from?
What is a kantian? And I agree. Humans best assist are techniques but they don't take advantage of it.
I think another missed opportunity was using the Ultra Divine Water like Goku did. Although the human fighters did say they trained with Korin for the years, they didn't state using the water to Goku so it's likely they got stronger than King Piccolo without it, but if they had used it then who knows how much stronger they would've been. And if we're going into Super, there's also not training on Yardrat like Goku and Vegeta did, I think someone like Tien, Krillin or Yamcha would've really benefit from learning spirit control. There's also the fusion methods but that's not really necessary to use.
It's just poison, at a certain point it won't have an effect (as seen by good buu eating several chocolates each with enough cyanide to kill and elephant)
@@aaronking2020 At the point in time where they trained with Korin ( 3 years before they met Piccolo Jr.) it probably would've had some effect on them and how they're not supernatural alien creatures it probably would've been deadlier to them but worth it as their potential would've been awakened.
Well yeah this dude focused on a bunch of points that made no sense the biggest being the Kaio Ken, dude acts like humans would master it as easy as it is to walk, it’s nothing like that, the strain it puts on the body is too much for anyone, look what happened every time Goku used it, especially once he used it with SSJB, most of his point was humans eventually being able to go up to times 20 when realistically that would probably rip the body apart, last time Goku used it it messed up his ability to use Ki. The point I’m trying to make is you can’t use an ability that is a last resort to say anyone could be stronger using it, imagine if everyone went around using Final Explosion all the time. Lol
@@TheTendouSouji87 Well to be fair Goku managed to get from Kaio Ken x3 to Kaio Ken x20 in a couple of weeks. Also one of the reasons why it messed Goku up so much when he used it in Super Saiyen is because the transformations are diametrically opposed. On the other hand, Mystic and Kaio Ken aren't opposed. Also, the human Z fighters can still blow up planets so it's fairly clear that they're not restricted by "realistically a human would die" although I supposed I might be misunderstanding that specific statement. And the thing is, Goku managed to get up to Kaio Ken x20 in the Namek Saga, and even Yamcha by the Android Saga was assumed by Dr. Gero to be Goku and we know he knows how strong Goku was before he left for Namek. Given the additional training, it isn't far-fetched to say that they could have Kaio Ken up to x20 even by the Cell Saga since they would have had a couple hundred times longer to get it than Goku.
10:55 that fan art is crazy
That thumbnail was epic
Tien reached enlightenment and divine power
Yamcha unlocked his true potential
Krillins the op unpredictable monk 😏⚡️
Valid points across the board. Nice video man.
Honestly, I completely agree with this video. All that untapped potential the earthlings had gone to complete waste. They could have learn to Kaioken technique and the spirit bomb, too. Yet the writers decided to make earthlings weaker and focus on the saiyans more and more.
The Kai’s are easily super wasted!
They are supposed to be the opposite of beerus and masters of life and creation!Even if they aren’t as physically powerful they should have been op because of hack abilities.
I think humans should learn mystic form.
Good video. I'm glad you're giving the earthlings some love. Some in this fandom get so upset of the thought of humans potentially being strong for some reason. Usually, in a lot of fandoms in Sci Fi like elements with aliens, humans get wanked. Here it's the opposite.
Gonna add to my comment, I think when you add part 2 it should say "how strong can earthlings get if they took advantage of training?" because I see people keep saying they did try, but are missing the point you're getting at. Or saying they have hard limit(which isn't confirmed in story for sure, nor does Akira say it) It's like clock work but predictable. Anything and everything to keep them in their place.
I hear you load and clear bro
@@BeanBoiYami Before I forget, if you read this wanted to say thanks for doing this video for the simple fact fans of the human Z-fighters are kind of treated like the red-headed step children of the fandom. Judging by how this video blew up and the general positive reception, there is a lot more of us out there in hiding. I do wonder if Tien could learn some of Hit's techniques, including his progress if its not a racial thing.
I would do it myself if I have the equipment and is more something in the bank. But I honestly think there needs to be a video debunking the common myths of humans having no potential at all. Seth The Programmer had a really good video about human potential but sadly its gone. That said up to you but maybe something in the bank for future content perhaps. If you do decide and need help debunking the common talking points to downplay humans, I'm your guy. But you seem like a smart dude who has done their research so you'd be fine.
It’s crazy how Krillin isn’t getting the Kaioken when there not only been a game that has his storyline based around him having, but other media and games where he could use it. Out of the 3 Z fighters, he should be the main one with the technique.
Thanks for bringing back those ideas for side characters.
Honestly the biggest missed oportunity was not letting the earthlings learn kaio ken, even Goku eventualy comes back to the technique with how useful it is
The Saiyans don't have a need to it because they have super saiyan transformations but the earthlings could have use it to great effect maybe even pushing it beyond what Goku was able to, imaginé a kaio ken times 40, 50 or 100 or crazy numbers like that, there is a reason why the vast mayority of fan manga that want to give the earthlings some protagonism starts by giving them kaio ken
You missed the fact that Old Kai's potential unlock is significantly stronger than Guru's and the more a charcters trains the stronger the form (multiplier) gets.
Yeah people have told me. I’ll take it into consideration next time.
Great video. It's such a shame how they were treated in the series. So many things could be done to make them stand out in their own ways, specialising with different techniques, forms, powers, etc.
Dragonball is so frustrating because the humans try so damn hard but then a saiyan inexplicably achieves a stronger form.
I remembered them having an arc that felt worthwhile in the Frieza Saga (Krillin getting his potential unlocked by Grand Elder Guru, whereas Yamcha, Tien, and Chiaotzu trained on King Kai’s planet. I believe that by the time of the Android/Cell Saga, Toriyama/TOEI decided to drop them in favor of the Saiyans (and Piccolo).
We hardly have a true scale as to how strong they are in Super, compared to the Cell and Majin Buu Saga.
Actually if you take the highest hipotetical into account then they are all at least near base level Goku,which is speculated to be around 100 trillion,this is reinforced with the idea that I highly doubt anyone in that tournament were only in the millions,especially since there were many normal characters that challenged base Goku, or else they would be eliminated immediately,it’s a little unbelievable especially considering Goku got that power by turning into a god,but the battles in the tournament of power speak for themselves,but other then that I got nothing
@@coluftonmcgerbergerber3116 also to be honest we also do not know what so the general strenght level in the other universes are aside of universe 7 where we know that it probally was the weakest for the longest time alot of it is probally due to frieza hindering the growth in strenght for the other races
It’s not just the tournament of power,we get conformation that at least krillin was generally base level Goku for the pre tournament fight between them,if he was still in the millions then Goku would have had absolutely no need to turn supersaiyan at all,now I do believe that it’s a little far stretched,such a increase is crazy in such little time,but this isn’t the first time dragon ball super just upped someone up just to make it a actual fight.just like buu.
Also considering how much of the rest of the team completely out ranks them I think they at least deserve that.
Tien using chakras as hidden potential is exactly what I want
That is bizarre though. Chakra and ki are the exact same things but with different names and slightly different thought processes. This is just westerners not understanding they're the same. It's like the difference between gelato and ice cream.
@@fireemblemaddict128 Not at all the same, anime isn't correct. Chi / Ki / Qi are the same. They represent the lifeforce flowing through everything. Chakras are specific gateways or wells of energy in the body with each chakra representing something different. Since you're clearly basing your knowledge on Naruto's misuse of the word, chakras would be more similar to the gates that Guy and Rock Lee can open.
@Brandon Powdhar no, I base my understanding on actually knowing eastern mythologies from living in the east. Chakra and qi/ki are two ancient concepts that stem from the same thing and were given different names in India and China. I am not just some narutard LOL
Toriyama borrows heavily from eastern martial arts mythologies, and Dragonball as a whole is a lot less crazy when you understand the root concepts. Like for example, sudden mind reading abilities. Seams random to western audiences, makes sense to eastern viewers.
@@fireemblemaddict128 They do not stem from the same thing. Prana is the same as chi. Chakras are what the prana flows through. The vedas, the upanisads, nothing ever equates chakras to a concept of energy.
If you have a source that proves me wrong I'd love to see it. Wiki has a pretty decent explanation.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chakra
@@fireemblemaddict128 Chinese Buddhist here, chakras and qi are interrelated, but very different. Energy channels (often unfortunately translated as "meridians") are like the canal, chakras are like the canal gates, and qi is like the water
I know you said you didn't wanna include Super but in the manga Roshi demonstrated that earthlings can also learn UI and Roshi being a very old and well practiced master, had some rudimentary form of it. Perhaps more training with Roshi and even training with Whis would unlock it. That alone can elevate them to God Status.
In the latest movie, it was revealed you can literally just ask for Shenron to give your more power more or less, which seems cheap, but if it worked for Piccolo, can't see why it wouldn't work for an Earthling.
Lastly, you forgot to point that Ultimate/Mystic potential unlocking is stronger than what Guru can do by his own admission. So who's to say if Ultimate/Mystic wouldn't be much much higher than what Krillin gained from Guru.
Completely overlooked the last part. It might be a little too late to try and change things in the next video seeing as it’s a continuation. But I’ll take that into consideration from now on. Thank you for your feedback.
Depends on who they ask to unleash their potential, guru could only release so much, the old Supreme kai ritual unlocked much more of gohans potential but if we take shenron into consideration, he may be able to unlock the most potential aside from super shenron.
And yeah all of them should be capable of learning kaioken, spirit bomb and even ultra instinct, but they choose to let goku vegeta piccolo and gohan to handle things smh.
Maybe Roshi's white mustache and goatee are the result of UI ---
@@Oromanowarful Yeah, they could ask Super Shenron to turn them into God Ki users. Like Super Human Gods...
Maybe King Kai didn't teach them the Kao-Ken, because it is a strain on the body and King Kai might have thought their body could not take it.
The music in the background is so nostalgic. Can't remember which game it was but it takes me back to 2007 dayuuum
There are two things worth noting, one, Guru didn't unlock all of their potential, only a portion, gohan being an incredible example of that small potential unlock.
The other is, krillin could have learned the kaioken after being killed in the buu saga as he was with king kai then, albeit a much shorter time(maybe return to it later thanks to Goku) and considering he handled the spirit bomb at 1 point, he might have a grasp on it at this point.
Sidenote, it would be cool to see more techniques from them, the earthlings biggest weapons were their ingenuity when inventing techniques. Multiform/solar flare/destructo disc/spirit ball/tri beam/mafuba/that electric attack move/lullaby fist
I think humans are still superior in spiritual techniques because goku only learns them because of his human like nature but vegeta struggles hard to do so like instant transmission and UI .his training on the one planet with the spiritual guys was much hard for vegeta than goku but considering people like tian and roshi and krillian holding the spirit bomb and literally yamcha having the spirt bal ; I think if they went through similar training they would gather many techniques on top of material arts which even vegeta fighting is like that of piccolo and goku because of it
Wondering if krillin even got his full potential unlocked.
I always Felt that the Saiyans recovery and Zen-Kai Boost are the only reason they survive certain training. Like 100x gravity training practically crippled goku and vegeta to start but when they healed they gained the strength to withstand it. All physical training is ultimately damaging your muscles for them to heal back stronger, in Saiyans this strength gained is exponentially higher than with a human although the trade off is that it's hard for them to strain their muscles enough to get that strength gain.
Humans can also develop techniques that make them stronger, even if its only slightly. If they weren't cucked block by toei so much they could have so much more potential then what we see in the series given their abilities to develop awesome techniques and people often forget these abilities came from humans at first in db and dbz. Not counting abilities from other races in dbs and etc. So ye, I think if anything I'm hoping Tian and them get more screentime now that were focusing on others while goku and vegeta are off fighting the others.
Yep, one of the biggest human abilities showing potential was the Kamehameha from Roshi, that all the non humans use. It was used to put out fires once too.
What exactly is the power level or scale of the human fighters currently in dragon ball super? Did they get any stronger.
@@jkjordon1 Mhm, I believe tien and krillin are probably the strongest human fighters, they took a lot of hits in the tournament of power and I'm not sure what their power level is during it. They have the most potential as humans, I would say roshi does to but his old age is catching up to him. Tien and krillin can have the potential to develop so many techniques despite their lack of raw power, we seen in super at times when power didn't always matter which is one of the things I'm glad that changed.
@@Odstboi what is their overall raw power destruction, large planet, star level?
@@jkjordon1 Probably system level at best, I wouldn't consider them galaxy level, but ye, I say tien and krillin could destroy several systems if they truly wanted to but they don't necessarily have techniques for that purpose besides the kame and tien techniques. So yes.They could actually become serious threats if the show permitted it given time.
That Yamcha drawing is dope, got him with a wolf tail and shit that’s cool af, I like Tiens too
All of those were spot on however don't forget about the fact that they also missed out on the yardrat training that Goku could have told him about and get the coordinates and a ship to go there and they missed out on Supreme Kai training which would have drastically helped them out combine those two with all the other stuff you mentioned and despite not having Transformations and raw strength like a saying their techniques and the magic from Supreme Kai as well as the yardratian Spirit control would have easily allowed them to keep pace
I love this video so much because I only just now realize that you're right about why they're much weaker than the sayian because of their training methods. Super Saiyan is a whole other story but their bases should have been as strong or stronger than the sayians
Imagine if they all get their own original transformation. Like Yamaha gets some wolf Kin transformation, tein gets a Buddhism transformation and krillen gets some awakening state similar to potential unleashed.
Chrilin grow a nose 👀
What about the Fusion technique? Both Krillin and Yamcha were present for Goten and Trunks training, so they likely could've picked up the basics with minimum practice. Lets just say that Krillin is too short to fuse, but nothing ever said Yamcha couldn't work this out next time he sees Tien.
Making a second part to this and I do plan on including Tiencha
@@BeanBoiYami Cool! It's too bad that Yamhan isn't the Fusion Dance because that is the cooler fusion imo
At least in terms of techniques like the kaio-ken, who knows how long it would take for them to learn them. Goku’s specialty is learning techniques at insane speeds. Remember he, as a child, saw master roshi use the kamehameha one time and immediately copied it. Then, as an even more skilled and knowledgeable adult, it took him a while of active training to learn the kaio-ken.
Provided, that most humans are of the modern or slightly futuristic era. Aka. Most humans are not warriors who actively hone their abilities in DBZ.
Personally... Knowing that human potential is severely capped. I would go after the Earth Dragon Balls in order to gain a means to actually train without limitations or going into another dimension etc.
Since most humans won't be too keen on Earth's Dragon Balls.
The whole thing about the ToP from DB Super just confirms to me that every race on DB had the potential to be something greater, it's just a matter of consistent training which would have been awesome seeing all the original Z fighters teaming up, sure Freezer and Buu sounded good too but really, having the old group together again would have been a blast.
I hated freezer resurrecting, it was a stupid decision
@@GrimTheDestroyer yet without Frieza. Jiren would've won cause Buh is asleep. No other choice is as powerful as Frieza at that time
Basically if the Human Z-Fighters took advantage of every Opportunity that got practically handed to them they would’ve been able to keep up with the Base Saiyans, who would still be ahead due to their Transformations, up until the Buu Saga where learning the Potential Unleashed Form and combining it with the Kaioken will allow them to truly close the gap.
then again, Gohan has ALOT of potential and that could partly come from his saiyan genes/super saiyan forms
though like Mystic seem to be around-above ssj3 level I could see the humans potential unleased be around-above the first ssj level
Honestly Tien really should've been the character to accomplish all of this.
Now this is the kind of thing the Dragon ball Dynasty fanfiction thankfully addressed. The humans in Dragonball have so many opportunities to get stronger than they are in canon. But just don't even when it makes no sense for some characters
Love that fan fiction
Tien overall is such a cool character. With his technique and skills I can legit see him fit in on multiple anime's. Yajirobe could of been cool ( since there's a trend making goofy strong nowadays,which is kinda cool)
Dragonball is not the kind of fiction that think about what characters would do in their situation.
Dragonball functions in a way that focuses on whatever the author is interested in, if the author is not interested in you, you got no development.
Wasted potential of characters is one example, another example is, when goku was a kid, the earth had lots of fighters that were at his level, but when goku is much older and powerful, the earth somehow stops producing human that are at kid goku's level, no human can control ki now except the existing characters.
Another thing is, teleportation is obviously a huge advantage, every serious fighter should learn it, and it would still be largely useful even if you quit fighting, but only goku uses it because it is his trademark move.
Frieza force. 10,000 warriors. 9 of them are actual plot threats.
Tiens dojo is mega wasted
Imagine a whole crew of Tiens smacking any sucker trying to blow up earth again
With all this said, I think krillin could’ve learned the Kaio-Ken due to the fact that, in the Cell Saga, it was established that Goku could use instant transmission to get to King Kai’s planet. So perhaps Krillin would have asked him at some point to take him there during the 3 year skip between Trunks and the Androids, so that he could train with King Kai for a year ish
pikkon is some I really wish they brought back or did something with! absolutely loved his flamethrower blast he did and would love to see more of that.
Lol
same he could’ve been equal to a goku to since he was getting trained up by that grand kai.
He lives in the after life so...
I agree that goku learning the spirit bomb probably took time away from getting stronger, but I also think(could be wrong) that the spirit bomb requires a pure heart to wield. I've always wondered tho if king Kai didn't teach them the kaioken because saiyan physiology is better suited for it, as it seems they're more durable and heal faster. If that's true, I still don't see why they couldn't pull of a x2 or maybe a x3 in dire circumstances for short periods, an all or nothing type situation. Still doesn't explain why picollo couldn't learn it tho lol
Bro this was a great video!! Love the concept. Maybe humans can have an impact in the future.
They could also have taken advantage of the hidden potential while the Namek were at Capsule Corp.
I always assumed the reason why Goku was the only one to learn the KaioKen was because his Saiyan genes. He used it only 3 times against Vegeta, and although he pushed it himself: It very nearly killed him. Plus, that ability alone wasn't the reason for vegetas defeat so personally I don't think knowing either the Bomb or the Ken would've done much good.
No it's because only those with a pure heart can learn Kaio's techniques ,but it doesn't explain why Goku never made Gohan/Goten learn the Genkidama tho (It's understandable for Kaioken as it's not combinable with SSJ ,and SSJ being stronger and more efficient in term of energy and not taking a toll on the body made Kaioken obsolete)
Hell he could even teach Chichi the Kaioken (Even tho she probably wouldn't be able to go above x2) and I think Videl have a pure heart too (Well I don't know if she did mischievious thing but she did beat up criminals)
Many ways the earthlings could get more powerful, using kaioken, learning techniques from yardrats, gravity training, room of spirit and time, potential unlocked bu Guru/Shenron, potential unlocked by Elder Kai, training with Whis, acquiring Ultra Instinct. They could also do something with Tien’s third eye. The reason why they don’t do this is because Toriyama simply doesn’t want to. He’s already introducing new characters that could replace the z fighters like Broly, Gamma 1, etc.
Cool video, well thought out and interesting.
I'm not sure the Mystic ritual would have worked for the other Z fighters the way it did for Gohan because Gohan already had/has this incredible well of untapped power since birth. I mean considering how powerful he was as a toddler with no training and even when he fought Frieza after having that potential unleashed as a kid he was leagues above the rest and even Goku (at the same age), likewise when he had his potential unleashed again, by the elder kai he hadn't been training like he did leading up to the cell games so there was defintiely room for him to recover lost power he previously had.
I think training may have raised the Z fighters potential but I think it's also fair to say that training brings one closer to reaching their own potential so I feel like after all that training they had they would have hit a comfortable power cap somewhere between Ascended Vegeta and Super Perfect Cell maybe?
Tien always was and is one of my most fav characters.. it's such a shame how he got thrown to the side.. but piccolo and Gohan have become THE MOST wasted.. we'll see if the new movie changes that or not..
You forgot about Roshi, Chiaotzu, and Yajirobe. You can probably even include Ox King, Chichi, Mr Satan, and Videl
Roshi, and Chiaotzu, are the only super humans in that group I’m not sure about Ox King. chi-chi, and Mister Satan were just exception Martial Artist, who don’t use energy. Videl learned to use energy. With the right training she could be have been up there with the other human fighters
@@earthborn1968 Yajirobe was able to kill Cymbal with ease, Ox King trained under Roshi, and Chichi was using laser beams through her helmet, but I do agree that Mr Satan is just an exceptional martial artist without Ki training
He also did not mention Uub, but maybe it was because Uub is the human reincarnation of Majin Buu.
@@RonnieM90 I was thinking because they're not up to that part of the story yet i.e. He's not born yet
They have no desire to fight except master roshi. But he enjoys seeing his students fight instead. He did volunteer tonight the sayains and go to namek to fight freizan. Roshi is always the goat
Can’t they go to Yardrat as well? Goku could use instant transmission to take them there and they could learn instant transmission along with spirit control and spirit fission, in the DBS manga after Vegeta learns spirit control it gives him such a massive power boost he isn’t even able to control his power at first.
That's why I love those fanfic comics. Unexplored Ideas that were tossed aside by Toriyama like learning Kaioken/Yardrat techniques, wishing for some of them saiyan genes from shenlong or becoming a cyborg with Bulmas help, all of those have been covered in unoficial comics.
olong and prar the idea of a shape shifting school we never see or talk about is crazy
Dragon balls “I wish I looked the same but biologically I’m a Sayian”
In every single DBZ videogames, I always used Tien Yamcha Crilin and Jaozi where possible... They have great charismatic techniques and appeal, in my opinion
I got good with Videl, so I could poo poo on people who only ever used the OP characters.