Heather: A Definition of Cool | Crazy Ex-Girlfriend Analysis
Вставка
- Опубліковано 24 вер 2024
- Or read: genericwonderf...
Twitter: / harrisonchute
Email: bagelsaftermidnight@gmail.com
There must be a price to aloofness, or at least, that’s always been the theory for us too afraid to be like that. And so, Heather is who we aspire to be. But here’s the big twist: we may be Heather already, and that’s really important.
One criticism I've heard is why would super-cool Heather bother to be friends with weird nerdy neighbor Rebecca? That question is answered when we finally meet Heather's mom. The resemblance between mom and Rebecca is uncanny. Same height, similar facial features, same penchant for concocting songs in her head. Heather already had a pre-existing relationship template to fit Rebecca in to. Her liberation from the family when she moved in with Rebecca was more of a lateral move than it appears on the surface.
That is an interesting observation. I never saw that but you are right. Heather hasn't moved on that much in this light.
Mm... I don't agree. I think it's clear that Heather was only interested in Rebecca at first because she was so extremely "other" from herself and made a good subject, but from there, Rebecca evolved from "other" to human in Heather's eyes, and later, again, Rebecca evolves from human to Heather. I never felt like their relationship didn't make sense. It wouldn't make sense for Heather to continue to hang around Rebecca if we never got the scene where she said she didn't want to label Rebecca just be her friend, which had the additional thematic benefit of deconstructing the show's title.
Mike Duplessis I've sometimes wondered why 'cool' people want to be friends with me and I've slowly realised that maybe everyone has been putting them in this 'cool' box and actually maybe she needs Rebecca in the same way Rebecca needs her. I think when we see Heather's background we realise we've maybe misunderstood her. Up until that point we thought it was her apartment.
I never really saw Heather as cool or at least popular. To me, it seems like she’s drawn to Rebecca because she considers Rebecca another fellow outsider. Kind of like how she and Valencia bonded in later seasons. They all were sort of cast off because of their own baggage and neuroses but find a kinship in each other.
Can you do an analysis on Mrs Hernandez? I would love to hear your thoughts on why she was depicted silent in the first season and then when Rebecca was confronted on her self-absorbedness, it became clear that it was just her view about Mrs Hernandez. She could talk all along, Rebecca just didn't care to listen.
It's a possibility!
"What does the future hold, what song is gonna sing me"
One thing that makes your videos so interesting to me (outside of your insightful thoughts) is how inherently different men and women look at the world and even the media. For me, I never felt that Heather was being unfair and I understood her point of view better than Greg's. And I don't think it ends at taking the side of your gender in heterosexual relationships. It's so refreshing to hear from a man that is aware of the difference in how society taught him to see women and actually take an interest in seeing things from the other point of view. Like wise, I love hearing what your reactions to the show are.
Interesting that you say you initially felt that Heather was being unfair. I thought Greg was the cruel one by dating her while he obviously had feelings for someone else. Though Greg himself obviously didn't recognize it for the longest time, so it likely wasn't intentional, but still. Greg hasn't really learned to recognize his own feelings at this point (his alcohol abuse plays into this too) and his treatment of Heather shows that you can unintentionally do a lot of damage that way.
I also thought that maybe Heather really wanted to be cool with it. She probably TRIED to be cool with it, but then found out she actually couldn't be. I didn't see it as a "trick" so much as her trying to push herself into denial.
I love all your videos on CEG by the way, they're always amazing and this was no exception. Thank you so much!
yassss
Kelly S I really enjoyed this video, because only now am I really being cognizant of that crazy ex-girlfriend trope, as a dehumanizing or non-humanizing pattern. People like me or Bagels After Midnight who were brought up in a (masculine) social and media culture consistently hear the saying "women are crazy or make no sense", which I understood was bad. But I didn't realize that it's bad because it means we equate *our* being able to understand women with them being emotional stable. And if we don't understand women (or we don't try to or don't put in enough effort to, which are more likely), then they must be off their rocks (hence crazy ex girlfriend trope.) Real life is never so extreme, but it does mean that as he said we were made to see Greg's perspective more, he means we've been conditioned to pay attention less to the women and their thoughts in media. And, I didn't notice this, Bagels has made the majority of his character studies about CXG's women characters, and until I watched his in-depth analysis and understood the scenes that were important for their character development, I didn't understand them particularly well. This is all to say, I'm definitely going to rewatch CXG and pay closer attention to the secondary characters, especially the women.
I listened to a new CxGF podcast recently and one of the panelists REALLY did not buy into the Greg 'romcom love interest' thing. First 4 minutes of him on screen in the pilot and already she concluded he was bad news, toxic dating material. Which kind'a shocked the others in the group.
Ya, I'm glad to see somebody is making smart videos about this show. Thanks
I don’t really view either party as being in the wrong. Only difference was that Heather was emotionally mature enough to call Greg out on an unhealthy but natural coping mechanism. It may not have been fair for him to treat Heather like a consolation prize but I don’t think Greg was mature and introspective enough to even realize he was doing it. It took a lot of emotional maturity and intelligence for Heather to not only recognize what was happening from the get go but also to be secure enough in herself to let Greg go.
I love what Season 2 did with Heather's and Valencia's characters. I remember Rachel and Aline saying something about Season 1 being all about the men in Rebecca's life, e.g. Josh and Greg, whereas in Season 2 they wanted to explore how the women in her life can be her parachute. They already explored Paula's character a lot, an even more so now, but Valencia and Heather were almost caricatures in Season 1 that it's so amazing to see them play a more complex role now.
As always, excellent analysis, Bagels After Midnight.
Heather's version of "Don't Settle For Me" is obviously just in Greg's mind (as Greg's was just in Rebecca's mind). But I think we should never discount how insecure Heather was in her relationship with him. He already abandoned the relationship for dubious reasons once. So while I think it would be unfair for Heather to create a test to try to entrap him, I don't think that's exactly what happened. I believe she merely said something along the lines of him sorting out his feelings for Rebecca and he took it as a license to simply run to Rebecca.
I don't know that Don't Settle for Me is entirely in Greg's mind -- the numbers play a little loose with continuity, so it'd otherwise be a stretch to say Heather got those words from Rebecca's mind (or Greg's), but I think it's more based in the emotion of the scene, and that moment is driven by Heather
Heather is like Greg. They both tried to play it cool and fell on their faces in the attempt. Remember Greg was 'no strings, light-and-polite' with Rebecca until he drank himself into a stupor over her. Heather was ultra-cool and blasé until she saw that her noble gesture was all for nothing.
Well Rebecca told Greg about his "settle for me vibe" so Greg certainly had those words rattling around in his head. It seems to me he obviously misinterpreted what Heather was saying, rehashing Rebecca's earlier comment. If confronted with Greg's interpretation of what Heather said to him, I believe Heather would likely be as confused as Greg was when Rebecca confronted him with her interpretation. "Don't Settle For Me" was so clearly telling Greg exactly what he wanted to hear, that I don't think we can treat it as anything other than an example of Greg being wildly unreliable as a narrator.
It's not just in his mind. He (speaking) says to Heather, "You told me to run after Rebecca! You did a whole song and dance!" She replied, "That was a test, you moron." Now, unless THAT scene - without a musical number and shot from a third-party perspective without narration - is unreliable, then, yeah, Heather told him to get lost and go after the one he truly loves. Greg might have misinterpreted the subtext ("please say you really want me instead"), but he didn't misinterpret the text ("you clearly want to go after Rebecca so let's just call it quits and you can").
so i had an idea that the women play different roles for Rebecca that are positive opposites for the men. Nathaniel is Valencia bc they are both conventionally attractive and seem to "have it all". Rebecca is Trent. Heather is Greg. and Paula is either josh because they are both caring and a cheerful presence for rebecca, or Darryl bc darryl has a fatherly nature to paulas motherly.
The choice of the show to incorporate two constantly supporting and affirming parents like Heather's is an example of how the show avoided easy answers -- Rebecca's parents as being some of the worst possible, but the exact opposite isn't ideal either.
She does not strike me as a sociopath but very affect-less.Her reaction to how things go with Greg, and her desire to stop treating Rebeca like a subject but a friend shows there is a heart in there. But your words about parenting... no right answers. Doh. Living that one!
I would LOVE to see an updated analysis on Heather after the series conclusion. Her character growth was awesome!
I didn’t feel that way about “don’t settle for me” she obviously liked him but he liked someone else more and love is putting someone before yourself. So her letting him go is a act of love since she cares about him and that he didn’t see that I saw as high emotional ignorance that he didn’t factor in her feelings.
Edit: but I guess I also failed her test but for opposite reasons, personally if the I dated (or even just was interested in) believed they would be happier with someone else I would be miserable for them being not being happy being with me I would have nothing to do but let them go. Sure if it doesn’t work out they might come back to you, but that’s hoping failure and sadness for them.
That last Heather montage was great. I really enjoy your content since it's honest and critical. It's crazy how much stuff is buried in the show and manages to balance them pretty efficiently.
Thanks, man!
I'm sure its the direction, but Vella Lovell usually talks in a monotone that is almost as flat as the one Daria used in the cartoon. The phrase "Literally, the most entertaining day of my life" is not a monotone phrase, normally.
That's part of the character of Heather and Mermista. Mikaela (and Heather in later seasons) has a lot more emotion in her voice all the time.
Since Heather is Rebecca's roommate, I'm curious as to what her role in the story will be in season 3. She probably sympathizes with Rebecca over Josh leaving her at the alter, but how much will she support Rebecca's mission to destroy Josh is something I could see her go either way on.
here from the future: she was ready to axe him
Well done! Your videos are so thoughtful and touch on so many necessary conversations. Thank you!
I feel like Heather tells Rebecca not to make poor choices all the time, but she just won't make a huge effort to stop her.
Great video! I loved Heather's development in season 2. I started to feel more invested in her story and I can't wait to see what her role will be next season.
These videos are helping SO MUCH with the waiting for season 3. Thank you for all of this work & just putting it out there but I would die if you did a video on all the parallels between characters & situations in the show (i.e. Rebecca & Greg talking about Josh/alcohol making them feel like "glitter exploding" etc.)
Something that intrigues me is thinking about how Heather will react to Rebecca's rampage of revenge against josh, which is implied to move at least the first few season three episodes. Being the most down to earth, the observer as your thoughtful analysis points out, she might be the one member of the girl group to reject or at least distance herself from the "josh chan must be destroyed" mindset. If you look at her reaction in the season 2 finale, out of all the girls she looks the most scared. I look forward to seeing the group dynamics this conflict will bring to the table, and can't wait to have more of your insight
Looking at Heather as super cool and also seeing through a similar view as Heather is a good confidence boost.
I totally love your channel. Why do you not have more subscribers?
haha thank you for saying so. The podcast mentioned was run for three years and only ever had four -- count 'em four -- listeners, so I'm shocked I even got five viewers here
Another outstanding analysis. You're on a great run, Bagels After Midnight. I, too, enjoy Heather's character and like the connections you make to her as an audience proxy. There are "observer" type characters in TV shows and film, but we don't often get to examine their inner lives and where they come from. Ep 204 was great at giving us a much deeper look at Heather. I hope there were will be more to come in Season 3. It's difficult to be both the "Other" and to try and connect with the "Other." I wish I knew better how to handle both situations. It's probably a life-long project, as someone used to tell me: "Still workin' on it"
I honestly hope you'll have some video essays on season three soon. I've enjoyed all of these massively!
gdi, I want a show this, this smart about relationships and interpersonal dynamics focused around queer folks. Because vast majority of my circles of friends are queer and the dynamics are very different (similar, but very different), and I really want not only interesting (musical) takes on our dynamics but also a bagels breakdown
wohoo! Always look forward to your videos. I caught myself mouthing Heather's dialogue over the video, so I know I've seen all the episodes way too many times.
Right there with you.
Your videos are so interesting and well done :)
Your channel is everything. I just love your videos. I catch myself constantly rewatching them... Over and over again. Thank you!
Marcela Canuto thank you so much!
I just realized I am a career student, as I am in medical school. Eyes wide opened.
I love your videos! Can you make your next one be about Darryl, because he is one of the most notable chracters you havent done a video about yet. And i see you havent done about Josh yet, which makes me surprised, but you may have covered him in other videos.
Anyways, keep with your videos and analysis please!
I enjoyed your video :) Keep it up!
Josh's season 2 gf, the eyebrow tweezing girl (before Rebecca) was interesting, too bad she left so fast. I don't really see Josh being an abstinent priest. And if not, why did he have to leave Bex at the altar. I also miss Greg.
thank you for another wonderful analysis. the otherness idea is very powerful.
I really don't understand how you can think heather was being unfair dumping Greg, I don't understand the comments rationalising it either. She stated in the song that he was treating her as second choice, pretty black and white. Not to mention it's a reprise oh his own song so he knows exactly what she means and what she's thinking. She was pretty straightforward about the fact that a relationship where he's obviously in love with someone else wasn't gonna work. She wasn't even angry, she was so rational even about her negative emotions afterwards. The show basically gave us no room for interpretation on this one.
A great podcast. You find insights that were there the whole time but not obvious.
I wonder if the makers of the show watch this channel?
They do :)
notification squadron ??
HEREEE!!!!!!!!!
Here :D
Yeeeees! :D
I appreciate y'all
She is soooo beautiful!
pls do an updated video on Heather I’m begging
I love Heather and this channel.
wow! very interesting.. didn`t even notice her as viewing it on a 2 dimensional plane like a viewer... I need a rewatch with that in mind!
CXG.? I went with CEG. Nothing came up but Kech though. Lol. Kech. Haaah.
I missed the parents episode, never knew Heather was biracial. I always thought she was Indian 🤷🏾♀️
I love this
Are you still doing these videos? If so, can you do an analysis of what the songs mean and how that reflects on Rebecca and everyone else when they sing them?
can someone explain what does he mean about "lifelong rest development"?
Arrested development. It kinda means when you're emotionally stunted and stuck in a part of your life so you aren't developing.
i don’t understand anything your saying but yes 👍
She's a great character but not my vibe, she's like that schoolmate I only see but I'd hardly get along with. SO FAR, I LOVE THE ENTIRE SHOW! Every character's actors and actresses were incredible!!!!
if your TV show garners this much analysis... Hmm.
My fave character ♥️
She fun and real.
how many times you have watched the show?!?
countless times, even before launching the channel
YAYAYYAY
you never fail to amaze me
Im literally her, so much that I only watched cexgf was because a friend told me she reminded her of me lol
atla mai irl
huh i was on heathers side the whole time. interesting that you didnt see that bit coming. i guess people just naturally align with characters they see themselves in more
can u remind me exactly what happened? i dont remember which side i was lol
Is heather black? I totally thought she was just Indian and adopted lol
Udo Ka she’s mixed race (black and white parents i think)
Vella is multiracial (black, Jewish, and European) while Heather is biracial, her mom being white and her dad being black
U never really said why or why she isnt COOL tho. This is kind of a thing with all your videos.
You guys. I think I’ve got it. These characters may be (emphasis on that this is a theory so people don’t get mad) I guess healthier versions of characters that already exist in cinematic history. Heather from Heathers. She’s the cool popular one that everyone can get the easy pass in life from being around. Validation is a big one. Even if it isn’t coming from the source it should could come from. Rebecca from, well, Rebecca. It’s a story about a nameless woman falling in love with a man at a hotel. He brings her to his abode to be the new mistress. All of the staff constantly compare her to the old mistress. Eventually we find out that the man she is in love with accidentally killed the old mistress. This was because after years of abuse from her, he got into an argument. I’m pretty sure she was the one who made it physical and then she tripped? Then one day a body floats to shore. He is afraid that he will be ‘caught’ for a murder that accidentally happened because of the possibility the body might be the old mistress’. After a wild goose chase of finding the details of the actual incident we find that the old mistress’ name is Rebecca. This movie (and book) made everyone think the main characters name would be revealed to be Rebecca. When in fact it wasn’t about the main character at all. It was always about the mistress before and will probably forever be. AFAIN THIS IS JUST A THEORY!!! TAKE WITH CAUTION!!
Heather should've never issued that test to Greg. He shouldn't have failed it, but it didn't need to be offered
Would you want to stay in a relationship with someone who doesn't love you?
Heather was clearly incredibly insecure, and when you're in love with someone and insecure, the first reaction is to test. Also, she's not dumb. She knew he liked Rebecca, she just needed to know if it was more than he liked her.
Yeah, whatever... who cares.