For the record, it's definitely reductive to say Rebecca is white because she is indeed Jewish, but in this video, I'm speaking to and responding to how she's been perceived at a glance, in my experience, when people are considering whether or not to watch the show and they see what looks to be another white face in an incrementally changing media landscape. That was the issue, and while it's somewhat related to the broader question of "are Jewish people white?" that's a different point to be made. Regardless, it felt potentially offensive at the time and now I see it has been -- so I apologize to you and also to Rachel Bloom: she is, to me, certainly more than the "white person" I had to describe her as repeatedly throughout the video.
I was actually going to bring this up (mostly because I got in an internet fight about "which minority has it worse" and Jews were seen as not having as legitimate of issues because they were white and I had to stop myself from giving a historical rundown to make the argument that they should pretty much be considered PoC) but I'm glad you got to it first! Jews are definitely a minority, they have definitely be subjugated in the US, and I think the show addresses that in a really wonderful way. They even talk about how Rebecca doesn't "look" Jewish (Darryl's nose comment). As a white-looking Latina I really appreciated that, to be honest. Anyway, good work! :)
I think Jews are considered white except by white supremacists. Because we can pass. But my daughter was interviewed in an article, and soon after I googled her and found some assholes rating her looks - with the conclusion being "That chick is a jew!".
White jews are white; nonwhite jews aren't white. It's pretty simple. We do experience prejudice on the basis of our culture, but it's impossible to argue that those of us who are white don't also experience privilege, especially in America. It's a complicated experience, but I wouldn't say calling white jews "white" is complicated or reductive at all. And there most definitely are jews of color.
It depends on who you ask. I get told by other minorities that I don't count as "white" ALL THE TIME. But I think I count as white. I am impacted by bigotry as a jew, yes, and I always have had to deal with that. However, I definitely have white privilege. So...who knows. It might also depend on location.
I came to the show because of the "bisexual-is-legit" song. Then I found out about Josh being Asian and other things beside Asian, such as someone who loves dancing or someone who tries to be a good person. Just the fact that Josh's parents have different opinions and/or express them differently, as real people would. Then I realised that Heather could grow to be really interesting and so aware of everything including herself, that is inspiring. And Paula. Paula gets to be a human being that is not only a mother or a woman over 30. That is amazing. Thank you for sharing with us your own process and thoughts about the show.
SPOILER ALERT FOR CRAZY EX GIRLFRIEND Paula’s abortion story really wounded me. I have my own severe mental health problems, and there have been times where my problems blinded me to the point that I couldn’t be there for my friends/family who could have really used my support. I get it, nobody wants to bother you when you’ve, for instance, just come out of the hospital from an attempt on your own life, but finding out later that they were suffering in silence to give you space is a special new type of suffering. It makes you feel selfish, and frankly it actually does make you less aware of the people in your life. Rebecca realizing that Paula needed her and she wasn’t there, was a powerful and painful moment that I think a lot of us can understand. And speaking to the bisexual song, that was right around the time I first came out, and I think it helped that I was getting a heaping helping of representation. This show changed a lot of things for me along my journey through this *crazy* world. I’ll never not love it
I think anyone of any race could play Rebecca on stage but I would really prefer they be Jewish. Her identity as a Jewish woman is incredibly important to the plot. And as a Jewish woman who rarely sees Jewish women onscreen, and when we do they often aren't cast as Jews (Mrs. Maisel for example) it was amazing to see representation like that onscreen. Also body diversity :)
I really liked this video it did help me understand the pitfalls of recommending this show to people, people who can't relate to Rebecca don't really understand her motivations and how she can be a complex and relatable character. When I tried to recommend the show to my sister, she hated it, she found Rebecca annoying and entirely terrible, and wasn't a fan of the musical numbers. I also have trouble recommending the show to others because this show feels so personal to me, I worry that people won't "get" the show, or not find it as intriguing and introspective as I do. I really love these videos because they explain these complexities in the show, and lets me experience the show through another person's perspective.
I completely agree about recommending it. I usually say that the show is so ridiculously up my alley comedy wise that I realise others might not be as into it as I am, it might not just be as a perfect fit as it is for me. I don't know if that's good or not but I find that people give it a chance just because I'm so enthusiastic about it.
Jenna Stannard you've put all of my fears about recommending this show to people together. If I finally manage to pester someone to watch it will they actually understand and appreciate it? I think I would be...upset if someone watched it and said it was shit. It's easily my favourite show.
I just tell myself that everyone likes different things. I know my husband isn't an especially big fan of the series but he doesn't listen to lyricals and is not so obsessively analytical as I can be. Which means that he won't "get" it to the same extent that I fell like I do. I don't recommend it expecting people to love it as much as I do, because that would demand a bit more than your normal investment in TV. I recommend it to other people expecting that some will like it and others won't. If people then love it, that's when I get happy! I just think the series deserves a lot more viewers than it has, and recommending it is the only way it will get more viewers. I just tell people to watch a couple of episodes before judging it. If they think it's crap, then it's frankly their loss.
I couldn't agree more. However, I have been pretty successful so far in getting my friends to start watching it. Some like it, some LOVE it. My sister and I sing the songs all the time together:) but I do agree that it is a difficult show to pitch.
In reference to seeing yourself represented, I was utterly delighted seeing Darryl in season 1 realise that he's bisexual. That scene in the gym where he's appreciating the butts of people regardless of their gender. And says "Could I be...?" There's just so much joy on his face, it was wonderful. And later when he's super excited and tells White Josh "I'm a bothsexual!" He's so happy that he's learned something important about himself and now he has a word to describe his feelings. That's very much how it was for me. Initially scary with questioning heterosexuality, but eventually joyous acceptance. Questioning and discovering one's sexuality can be a very scary process, and I wouldn't want to dismiss that for anyone. But it can also be a wonderful experience where finally an aspect of yourself makes sense. And I'm glad this show celebrated that.
I’m biromantic and a demigirl, and the initial fear of questioning heterosexuality, but the eventual joyous acceptance is so relatable and it really applies to figuring out your gender identity as well xd
I never really thought of Josh as "dumb" as much as "sheltered", as so many "bros", or people who are kind of stuck in their high school glory days tend to be.
I’m the very first episode we see him proudly announce that he lives in West Covina, and he goes “91719!!” like it’s some kind of a battle cry for the high school football team. He’s supposed to be, what, in his late 20s? But he gives me “I hang out around the parking lot to interact with the other kids” vibe. Not in a creepy, “I get older, they stay the same age” way, but like he never fully grew out of that mentality. His character always bothered me but now I get why that is, and that it’s definitely intentional. We _all_ know that guy lol
He was written as ditzy-not very bright as the seasons went on. When she first saw him in NYC I thought he was really smart. The diversity amongst the cast was terrific! Paula is a little chunky and has a double chin just like me! Rachel is not a sz 2. I remember that no big designer would dress her for the Emmy's because she was bigger than a sz 4 so they didn't have any samples for her. And some designers didn't want their name linked to a sz 8 lady. Good God! I'd give anything to be a sz 8!
I'm a bpd sufferer and I feel like in a way this show is made to show how supportive people actually are except in the real world people like me who suffer with borderline personality disorder actually get stigmatized or left to deal with it alone. I like how they've made the show but if only real life was like that and people actually weren't so ignorant towards bpd. They really should make a real film about bpd showing what it's really like for a bpd sufferer.
So.. the DSM criteria for Borderline Personality Disorder. It may be maligned for being unfairly used to label women, but it's a very legitimate disorder that many people suffer from. She's probably the most sympathetic presentation, ever.
As someone with the disorder I never felt more validated than this show. It felt so honest and made it more human despite the stigmatization that is still touched on.
I'm so happy that you've made this channel. Considering the show's small fan-base I didn't really expect there to be any analysis videos for it at all, so I was super excited to find a whole channel dedicated to it! It don't think it's that unusual to talk about just one thing, there are a lot of show/film specific channels for things like Star Trek, Adventure Time, Game of Thrones, ect., so why not this? Whether it's weird or not, if it's what you want to talk about then you should keep talking about it. :) Looking forward to your thoughts on the next season!
in your topic about cultural appropriation you couldve mentioned that "group hang" the shakira parody is actually a comment on the bastardization of latin american cultures and how latin american cultures are often conflated and treated with a hand-waved "same difference" attitude. rebecca is a white woman singing a song in the style of a colombian woman inside of a "latin fusion" restaurant ABOUT the bastardization of mexican cuisine. its not even latin american food just shit that may or may not be vaguely foreign. theyre yelling "salsa! burrito! taquitos! guacamole! pizza! spanish! spanish! spanish! spanish! español! guadalajara! sicily!" while rebecca yells "DOES THE CHEF EVEN KNOW WHAT MEXICO IS?!
her love for josh (and all romantic relationships really because she says josh “awakened her”) is rooted in the association with summer camp and her experience in musical theatre.
I also think this idea that the show doesn't have enough diversity sorta ignores a lot about the characters. You have Paula who's an older woman and a mother, yet still a fully realized character with goals she pursues, Darryl who's bi and a single father, white Josh who's gay, etc. So even with their white characters they are giving representation to groups that rarely get it. If fact Paula is actually the only example of her kind I have ever seen.
I'm sorry but this video is wrong because it is called issues to address and in fact if you pay attention you'll realize that there are no underlying issues to address.
You're literally the only youtube channel that posts videos longer than 10 minutes that I watch without distraction, I don't pause it to go get food, I don't have it in a smaller window while browsing the web on another. Thank you so much for your insight and passion for this show, I truly believe it's brilliant and so personal for us, the Rebecca's of the world. It has helped me through the darkest of the times, always with a laugh and a shared tear. It has made me feel less alone, sometimes it feels impossible to see there are others feeling things that are normally portrayed as tragic (fear of being friendless, why does nobody love me?, etc) and this show, as you mentioned, allows us to look from the other side, to see how we're not crazy but only human.
Yes, more analysis please. We're all really desperate to talk about CEG in any way until season 3 starts. Then we can talk about season 3. And Season 3 in relation to season 1. And season 3 in relation to season 2. I guess we can talk (again) about season 1 in relation to season 2.... or speculate about season 4....
It's so great to see that the series really does have a 4 season arc and they never cheated in between and made Rebecca skip steps or jump ahead, you truly have to sit through many many bad choices and setbacks to see her eventually get better in a realistic way. If you expect the show to 'deconstruct' the term crazy in a single episode or even a season, they'll be disappointed. It's a complex term if you really think about it so it takes a longer time to deconstruct.
I don't often comment on videos, but I love what you have done here. Especially near the end where you notice the problem of sexual rejection and how scary, and sometimes life threatening that can feel to a woman. Taking note of where we need to rethink our attitudes and calmly addressing them without being offended or defensive is, in my opinion, how we will be able to evolve as a society. We SHOULD be able to point these things out to one another without one side feeling attacked or criticized for past behavior, learning and adapting is to me responsible citizenship, if I can use such a corny word. Well done you!
It seems to me that most of the white characters really should be white (could you imagine Daryl as any other race and still keeping the "1/8th Chippewa" joke?) but most of the non-white characters could be white and not effect the story.
You bring up some issues that I've been thinking about a lot lately when you mention stereotypes of both the "crazy" person as well as the "dumb Filipino." I was watching a review of Riverdale where the narrator, who did not care for the show, was dismissing the main homosexual character on the show. He called Kevin Keller a feminine stereotype that exists only in their relation to women, aka their gal-pal. The problem with stereotypes is that the DO exist. There are extremely effeminate homosexual men just as there are dumb Filipinos (although, I don't know if I was aware that this was a stereotype before). To deny that is to deny that those people exist at all as well as deny their representation on TV. I'm not the most masculine gay man out there, so if the only representations of gay men we're "allowed" to show on television are of the hyper-masculine and completely "straight-acting" gay men, then I will be unable to see myself in TV just as if there were no gay men featured at all. The creator of that Riverdale review completely, and likely conveniently, forgets to mention that there are two other men on the show that cannot be pigeon-holed into a heterosexual box: Kevin's bf who is a tough gang member and the seemingly unsure of his sexuality Moose. Like with the Filipinos on CEG, Josh may be dumb, but we see through his family and Father Brah that it's not that Filipinos are dumb, but Josh is just a seemingly dumb guy. Dumb people exist. Dumb Filipinos exist. As long as the show isn't relying solely upon a stereotype, all types of people should be featured, otherwise, as I said earlier, you're denying people the opportunity to see themselves in TV and fiction. And for many, that's part of CEG's appeal, finally getting a chance to see a bit of yourself on screen. Whether it's a proud to be bisexual, an older woman not content with her place in life, a person suffering from anxiety, or a dumb Filipino.
Also, I would LOVE an in-depth analysis of Trent. I think he's one of the most important characters on the show. He's Rebecca without the empathy and the fact that he's borderline creepy but also somehow not only reinforces that further.
@@Venslor unpopular opinion but I think him and rebecca have the same sort of issues but it's just from her perspective so it doesn't show his empathy. If you think about the things she has done and Trent has done they're pretty similar. The only thing is you see her reasons and backstory behind doing them. The amount of empathy this show makes you have and somewhat of understanding over mental illness is incredible and I love this show so much.
While it's true gay men like that exist, Kevin Keller is a pre existing character in the archie comics show that didn't fit the stereotypical role of gay BFF for the female leads even though they were friends in the comics and has more of a masculine guy with no interest in theater or making sassy comments/pop culture comments like gay men are expected to do in television. Riverdale morphed him into that stereotype but didn't even bother ever giving him depth or focus like the straight characters . Kurt from glee was also someone you called a stereotypical character but he was treated like man character and was allowed depth that Kevin never got.
I have the same problems you mentioned with cultural appropriation, and I believe, as you said, the limits are very blurred and we don't even agree in consensus to what it entails. I think diversity is wonderful and necessary and CEG is one of the few shows I know that integrates so many different characters and still humanizes people. The relationship between White Josh and Darryl as one of the healthiest contrasts nicely with some of the encounters that Rebecca has with men. It's undeniable that CEG it's a show written my women. You made lots of nice points in the video, it was very interesting to see how the race-bend might now work on some cases to avoid stereotypes. I just wanted to say that I love this show with all my heart and made me confront some mental health issues on my own that I'm still trying to deal with. I had to literally see Rebecca fall over and over to realize I don't want to be in that downwards spiral and that I should ask for help.
amy wagner oh wow I mentioned Lindsay in my comment too! Small Internet world, I'm glad there's a lot of overlap between Bagel fans and Lindsay Ellis fans
During the summer I've watched a lot of Korean TV, and not a few Indian ones as well. From that perspective the US argument over 'cultural appropriation' seems painfully parochial and a bit silly. EVERYBODY's doing hip-hop, EVERYBODY's doing rap. Everybody's bustin' dance moves out of the popular music videos. The 'cool kids' are all dressing like their idols. The pop ballads sound the same. Bollywood musical numbers now come with a rap bridge. If a Korean action show can have a hard-rockin' rap musical soundtrack I can't see why Rebecca Bunch shouldn't do it too.
About the cultural appropriation part, I remember watching a Lindsey Ellis video where she analyzed Pocahontas and Moana. She argued that cultural appropriation is a neutral term. It's not bad, but it isn't good either. However, there are right and wrong ways of doing it where they can come off as offensive. Even the best of things can end up being culturally appropriated. I think Avatar the Last Airbender comes to mind. The cartoon show creators aren't Asian even though the show has influences from different Asian cultures (Japanese, Chinese etc.) Despite this, it is still a respectful portrayal of the culture. Compare that to the movie where it somehow got white washed even with a POC as a director. Personally, I don't think there is anything wrong with cultural appropriation, but I do believe there is a really thin line.
@Sunday Girl @M0M0 I don't know the context anymore since it's two years ago but I know the definition of cultural appropriation has definitely shifted faster with social media. I'll take the L on this one because I've realized my perspective changed a little and started to be more nuanced. You're right by now that definition is super incomplete to the discussion now.
@Sunday Girl I agree, but I think the examples you give are very specific. Things like religious artifacts are always appropriation, but sometimes it's not as simple as that. What about something like a sombrero? It has been portrayed before as a way to stereotype Mexicans (I'm one myself)...but if an American told me they bought one because they genuinely like the look of it, I think that would be more appreciation. A sombrero has no significance or sacred meaning in Mexican culture, it's just a hat. What about, like the OP said, Avatar the Last Airbender? The creators are americans and so is the network, so is it wrong for them to make a show inspired by asian culture, especially when they did their best to portray it in a respectful manner? I've heard a lot of ppl express happiness at feeling represented in that show, at seeing so many POC, so many complex women, etc. So...is what they did wrong when it brought joy to a big amount of people from those groups? How can you get diversity and more representation if creators are only allowed to tell stories from their own limited perspectives? It's a complex topic.
Bagels, ya did good. Listen, we women are not expecting a helluva lot so when a man makes the leap of perspective, it's a big deal. Keep flogging this. It will change the world. Just wish it would happen faster.
When CEG ends, I do hope that you’ll continue this type of work and analyze other shows! I’ve binged these videos and am so glad I found this channel. You’re very insightful and my appreciation of the show has definitely deepened through your analysis.
I think your revealing some unwarranted insecurity here: there is immense value in diving this deeply into this material, and your perspective is particularly apt both because of your background and because you're smart and, crucially, you care. You've presented an excellent case for the value of CEG in many ways. You certainly could apply these techniques to say, The Incredible Jessica James, and there'd be value in that as well, but CEG does seem to be a particularly appropriate subject for this analysis because it is a nexus of deconstruction for a variety of issues. Keep up the good work and thank the Goddess you haven't discovered Terrace House ;).
wasn’t the whole conceit of Josh being asian based on both her experiences growing up with an asian jock in high school and then sorta comparing that to how asians in white media are generally scrawny nerds or hyper achievers because haha overbearing asian parent meme ergo he is based on a stereotype but more on a general Umbrella Asian stereotype with the aim to subvert
I always thought Josh had to be Filipino because is smoother for its relationship with Valencia (being Latin) and for the dynamic with father brah. Rice is not the only thing linking both cultures, there is also religion and they play it so well. As a Latin women, the connection between Latin and Filipino (in real life and in CXG) felt so natural... At least for me.
yeah, i'm Latin and i also thought Rebecca's comment about rice being the only thing connecting their cultures was weird and untrue. there's many obvious things we share in common like Catholicism, being brown, usually dark hair and brown eyes, colonized by the Spanish,
I've just finished watching this show and my reaction is that this is the single most brilliant artistic piece I've ever seen. Really gives light to the phase art imitates life. It made me more open to taking a close look at the people in my own life and the fact that I feel so like Rebecca is both scary and enlightening. Never thought just one show would change the way I live my life
Found my way here from Reddit. CXG is the rare show that has hooked me on all levels. I caught the show on Netflix and it was simultaneously an emotional gut punch and a warm fuzzy blanket. I was going through some personal issues at the time and CXG was the show I needed to help me move forward. Since then I've been trying to get friends and family to watch with little success. But I found the subreddit and now I have this channel as an outlet for discussion and analysis. You did a really good job with this video and have earned yourself a new subscriber. I look forward to more content in the future.
It's so difficult to explain this show to people because on the surface, as you said, it's either sexist or feminist and the nuance of it really hard to describe. It's also frustrating because I'm someone who can't help but analyze the media I consume. Crazy Ex Girlfriend was so great to me that I actually watched it twice, and have read/watched a lot of analysis on it and behind the scenes stuff with Rachel Bloom. While I think watching the show and enjoying it the first time through does speak for itself, there is definitely a lot of insight I've gained going the extra mile with the show. Which is something that you can't expect people do. I'm a media student who has always loved analyzing television in particular so it comes easy for me. But most people just want to watch a show once and move on. And while I do think it's beneficial to even do that, it's not going to accomplish everything Rachel Bloom has set out to do. Which is frustrating for people who have invested the time to really study the show. And, in my experience, most people don't want to sit and listen to you explain it to them.
I always love these videos, do keep them coming. I did not know anything about this series when I started watching it and much as Rebecca was in denial the first series so was I. I have struggled so hard with if she's crazy or not. As the series progress I must admit that maybe she is, but since she's also so incredibly human that's hard for me to reconcile with. Which is the whole point I have to admit, that being crazy isn't being "other" or neatly boxed, it's just one more layer of humanity. I still struggle to see that she actually dropped everything and moved for Josh, because in my mind I can't imagine that, what I can however imagine is being miserable and seeing Josh as a way to be happy again (as she was in camp) and moving for that. I love that the dissonance between thinking feminism/acting feminist is mentioned here, it's one of my favourite things to laugh about. I know that it's not everyone's cup of tea but I do thing that, done the right way, it enforces the feminist message. It avoids being to "preachy" while often directly highlighting the message in a comprehensible way. Lastly I'd just like to say that while Greg maybe could not have been Asian I do believe that he could have been a multitude of other ethnicities.
I'm so incredibly happy that a. most of these issues were at least addressed in season 3 and b. you answered my one kernal of doubt that was "why am I listening to a man talk about this show?" Thank you for your content
I really love your videos and find them wonderfully thoughtful and reassuring - I've been watching for a while so I wanted to say that first. :) I haven't had the chance to read through the comments so I'm sorry if these thoughts are a repeat, but I had two things that I figured might be helpful to share. (oh, and to put this in perspective, I'm a Hispanic and Jewish woman). The first is about cultural appropriation - and your example of the failed taco/burrito truck. The problem with that example (if it is the one I'm thinking of, but whether way hopefully this is helpful) is that the interview with the creators of that truck contained narratives of their time in Mexico where they loved the fresh tortillas available to them and wanted to learn how to make them. The Mexican women, however, who made and sold them didn't want to share their methods (or maybe they didn't understand English - the women remarked about their broken Spanish), and so the visiting women described how they spied on the Mexican women - without their consent - making the tortillas to learn their secrets; they then proceeded to return to the U.S., open up a truck, and make money off of their pilfered knowledge. So the problem in this example is not the existence of the truck or the Americanized creations (I'm Puerto Rican, my partner is Mexican, and we try out Americanized food from our cultures all the time without any complaint - as long as they taste good! :) ), but rather that these women felt entitled to literally steal these women's cultural property for their own economic gain - and, importantly, they felt comfortable stealing the cultural property of a people often maligned in the U.S. and whose cuisine is generally considered worthy of little compensation outside of the foodie scene. This is a really helpful example of this type of problem, and of cultural appropriation. Intent isn't the only thing at play; how one gains access to another culture (especially a culture that is a minority or that is often treated with hostility) and how that culture feels about that sharing matters. If the women had received permission from the Mexican women (as many American and English women have, actually, with great economic success - for example, Diana Kennedy) to learn their craft, there wouldn't have been such a problem. So cultural appropriation, at times or on some level, is that lack of respect for what one is borrowing/learning and seeing that borrowing in an entitled and deserved way. The second point I just wanted to tentatively raise is that I think it might be worth thinking about whether or not it's helpful to put Jewish people in the broad category of "White" in each instance in your analysis of, for example, diversity in the show. On the one hand, Jewish people do get to pass as broadly White very often and receive the benefits of that passing; it is also true that, for example, Jewish people are generally better represented in media broadly painted. It is, however, undeniable that anti-Semitism runs rampant throughout the U.S. (especially with the current political climate), and media has very often not, in fact, been kind to Jewish characters even when representing them (especially, for example, Jewish women in the romance genre). In these ways, a White person of Western-European descent and a White Jewish person have very different experiences and receive different treatment. I would say, then, that it's absolutely fair and important to point out that - in terms of color - there is a lot of [W]hiteness (it's also fair to make the case that Valencia, while a Latina, remains a very light-skinned one, and it is rare to see dark-skinned or Afro-Latinx properly represented in media) on Crazy Ex-girlfriend, and this is something to think about and maybe improve on. At the same time, though, the number of Jewish characters, I think, and the lack of stereotypical shaming of Jewish women especially on the show really excites me (especially as a Jewish woman). Hopefully that makes sense! Anyway, looking forward to more of your videos!
Watching your vids makes me feel less alone, because none of my friends are as obsessed as I am with this show and I have the urge to discuss themes like those. All that being said.... congratulations! And thanks!!!
Can I just say that half of the reason I love your videos is your insightful commentary and the other half is how everyone commenting on your videos is either adding clever quips or equally insightful commentary. It is so hard to go anywhere on the internet, to look at the comment section and not see random and unnecessary hate. It's so awesome to see comment sections that are cordial and thoughtful. I forgot how much of a rarity it was until I saw actually looked through the comments of this. Thanks for creating an environment where this type of behavior blossoms.
Just discovered this channel three years later. I've been binging it the same way I originally binged CXG when I fell in love with it. This is fantastic commentary.
I have nothing of quality to add, except that you seem like a cool person and I enjoy watching your analysis whenever it pops up. The obsessing about "only one show" thing - a tv show, especially a good one is a complex thing with many other things compounded in it, whereas a painting, for example, usually has less material but somehow you can study one of those for years and you are not considered obsessed, you're just an expert.
Yet another incredible video! Keep up the great work! I'm going to follow your advice and resist the urge to angry read that review. Nothing irritates me more than people complaining when media depicts mental illness as sloppy and ugly when it is sloppy and ugly. A great number of symptoms are a living nightmare and I cannot explain what a panacea CEG has been in terms of letting me forgive myself for a lot of stuff. Rebecca Bunch is a frightening but comforting? mirror that media has never handed me before. Every show has its flaws but I cannot count CEG's relationship with metal illness as one of them. The show always portrays Rebecca as relatable but never shies from her culpability. "It's not okay but it's okay." If that makes any sense. It's a hard balance to strike but it's so important. So many times representation of mental illness swings from demonisation to woobification and they both suck. CEG hits it just right I think.
4 years later, but I feel this comment so much. The article seems ridiculously ignorant abt mental illness. "her mental health problem is unclear and undiagnosed and she takes two steps back for every one step forward". Um, yes, thats what actual peoples lives are like and it feels deeply Insulting to dismiss them as 'not woke enough' or something.
On the topic of cultural appropriation (which is such a complex idea in general), Lindsay Ellis explains it fairly well in her most recent video about Disney's Pocahontas; essentially, cultural appropriation in and of itself is neutral and can happen on any side, but can be negative depending on what group is appropriating what culture. (I'm not the best at explaining things and would recommend watching her video about it, but it helped my understanding a lot. Also, I've been enjoying your videos for a little while now and look forward to the next one!)
After thinking on it today, I actually think Bagel got something wrong: there is no reason to avoid casting minorities/nonstandard characters to avoid playing to stereotypes, at least not with *this* show, and even if there is, you could always cast a minority with a background that avoids this stereotype! After all, the whole conceit is that Rebecca really is, by all accounts, a "crazy ex-girlfriend", a stalking, psychologically distressed woman chasing after her ex. And yet, by showing the human behind that stereotype, we learn to empathize with her, and understand her as a person. Similarly, even if Josh is a "stereotypical" dumb bro-ish Filipino, we are shown the real human who lies within the stereotype. If the concern with, say, changing Trent, was portraying an Asian as being awkward with women, then the show could easily show you enough of him so that you can't reduce him down to "silly little Asian", to see the person behind the stereotype. The other solution to more minor characters (or even not-so-minor characters) is to feel free to just make them different minorities. While Nathaniel's character works best as a white guy (and perhaps Trent was more meant to be a reflection of Rebecca, so being white, Jewish, etc.. is more in fitting with the character's purpose), there is no reason that small-dicked Audra's fiance [Edited to Add: the fiance had a small dick, Audra doesn't have a small dick] couldn't have been Black, or Native American, for example. Similarly, an Indian or Black (or Native American! Darryl doesn't count! lol) Greg could have also been a part of the cast without the feeling of Rebecca chasing an "ethnic fetish", since he would be so physically different-looking from Josh.
Another excellent analysis that brought up a lot of issues I haven't thought much about (and some that I have). It's easy to nitpick other people's work. To anyone who criticizes Crazy Ex-Girlfriend's diversity issues, I would say to them: "Can you do better?" As you've pointed out, as a writer, if you "fix" one problem, you may introduce another problem (e.g. making Greg Asian might make people think Rebecca has an Asian fetish). Too much focus on one thing can lead to overwriting. The goal of writing is not to be perfect at everything or to please everyone. It's to produce a compelling, meaningful piece of work that has a clear vision and is respectful of humans. The writers of Crazy Ex-Girlfriend have most definitely accomplished this and try much harder to be diverse than any TV show I've seen. To people who don't like Crazy Ex-Girlfriend, I would say give it a few more episodes, or if that is unpalatable, I hope some other inclusive TV show is more to their taste. It's okay if people don't find Crazy Ex-Girlfriend to their taste. Personally, even though many minority groups love Orange is the New Black, I found parts of it offensive and stopped watching it. My hope is that people believe inclusion is important and keep working to make their communities inclusive.
When you started talking about when you started this channel and the reasons why I got very worried you were going to follow it with a "and this is why I'm taking a break/stopping these videos". I'm definitely relieved that this is not true. Anyway, this was a great video! I always look forward to when you publish content
even when i'm too slow keep up, these videos made me apreciate so much i haven't noticed in the show before. it's also nice to try to folow someone's thought process. so weird to watch and not be able to repliquete the stuff. i should know.
damn it's good to know i'm not the only one who sees this much potential on this show and i'm ngl? i considered making a bunch of video essays on crazy exgirlfriend as well and felt a little bummed when i found out someone beat me to the punch. your videos are inspiring me bc they unfold exactly what makes crazy ex girlfriend brilliant which helps me employ these things in my writing.
I remember hearing somewhere that in Japan no one cared that Scarlett was cast in the lead in Ghost in the Shell, because it was an American production they all just assumed that it would star an American actress. The criticism I heard a lot was that it wasn't a problem of casting but rather a problem that movie studios will not shell out hundreds of millions of dollars to make a film without someone they view as a proven commodity in the lead role and it isn't the fault of one particular film or of one particular casting director that the movie studios in general do not feel there is a bankable female Asian action movie star in Hollywood.
A smart and well thought out analysis. I don't think anyone cruising youtube would listen to a 41-minute video unless it was really good, but you make it easy for us. Please keep the videos coming!
I’m 4 years late to this incredible dissection of CXG’ video, (of which I still watch obsessively), BUT- For the record, @ 24:44 in your discussion about races within the characters, which, imo is on point-EXCEPT; not all Americans, including my Scottish heritage red/blonde self, think Asians are “weird”. I happen to think Asian people are incredibly beautiful and stand for a rich and promising culture within American society. Never have I ever thought your assumption one time in my life, and I know, externally, I speak for many others within my same demographic. Loved this video and your amazing thesis writing! Incredible!
I sort of hoped both this and and the show would have digged deeper into the hard question what is mental illness. As someone suffering from mental illnesses I would wish to see not only the struggle of simply unconventional behaviour invalidated as "crazy" represented, but also the struggles of having the actual suffering part of it invalidated as not crazy enough, as in "just looking for attention", that it can't be that bad and you just need to get your act together because everyone else has difficulties but can overcome them and yours can't be different as in "everyone gets sad sometimes",and people trying to talk you out of taking your medication, because they know so much better than your doctor that you are just being "duped by pharmaceutical industry".
I honestly didn't realize ( didn't look through your history too long apparently) that you started this show just in response to Crazy Ex Girlfriend. This is wonderful analysis, and I agree that media can shape the future. Your self reference at the end is adorable as well
I love your videos. Its nice to know I'm not the only one who feels so strongly about this show. It worth talking about, and I enjoy hearing you talk about it.
Once again, you've said so many of the things that I've thought while consuming television and film. Thank for sharing your brain and heart with us. Whenever I watch your videos I wish that I could sit down with you and want other things because you think about media on another level. Also, PS: Selfie is not as all the same as Crazy Ex, but it's another comedy that I believe did some similar work in terms of inclusion that Crazy Ex does. Selfie is no longer, but I still appreciate where it took me. Until next time.
Absolutely. No one with a diagnosis should be dismissed as crazy. The label is a tool for better self awareness. It's not an excuse to reduce someone. Her label just showed how she came to understand herself and grow. That deserves merit as a process.
I started watching this show and while I like the songs, I could only make it through the first season because past me was so tired of the stereotypes you mentioned and the cringe comedy was just too much. So I didn't bother watching it again when season 2 returned. However, I've changed a lot since then and ended up watching season 2 and 3 and I am now utterly obsessed with how good this show is. There's just so much intricacies lying under the surface that make the show, but are easy to miss at some points.
I really appreciate these videos and always make a point to watch (maybe more than once) but I also think when it comes to the point of representation, as a Native person, where I feel the show fails is with Daryl Whitefeather. I like the character but feel that his expression of native identity is very problematic. It is a stereotype, that the show doesn't deconstruct the way it does with other stereotypes. I think this is one point where Crazy Ex-Girlfriend needs to a bit more reflection.
Finally got around to watching this. So on-point. "While Crazy Ex-Girlfriend exists in a contemporary setting, it’s heart is set in the near future." Thank you for another thoughtful essay!
Re: Cultural Appropriation: Lindsay Ellis has a recent video about Disney's Pocahontas that explains the principle, its application, and its ramifications quite well.
Hey, I just wanted to say that I love your videos! I tried to get my husband to watch this show, but he just couldn't relate to Rebecca, which I suppose makes sense because he primarily only relates to male characters, and I primarily only relate to female characters. It's just nice to see that someone else gets all the nuanced messages that are buried deep beneath the surface of the series.
I just wanna say I love your videos and your analysis of the media have helped me to really appreciate the show on a much deeper level. Thank you for all your hard work :)
I’ve been binge watching these and I’m running out. I love your hearing your perspective, you’ve explained so many things I’ve agreed with and could never articulate myself.
You are mentioning in this video "The Mindy Project". Actually, these shows are not only both on my favorites list, but also they seem quite similar. Both are created by women and are romcoms. Both portray smart and successful women who people see as weird or maybe crazy. And the love stories between Danny and Mindy and Rebecca and Greg have a similar vibe to them.
I just found your channel and I LOVE your insight, commentary and (self)reflection! I also find that you put my thoughts and new things I hadn't thought about together in a structured, eloquent way that is amazing to listen to. Also, your voice is really calming and easy to listen to! And it's awesome to hear what an asian man has to say about this show that (at first glance at least) seems to be geared at white women. So: thank you so much for sharing your exitement on here and therefore with me. Nobody in my life is into this show, so binging your videos makes me really happy and exited for the show! ♥
I am a new sub, and just wanted to thank you for your uploads on this show. I resisted watching it, even though it kept popping into my various recommendation feeds, because the title put me off. As a woman, my knee-jerk reaction was yuck, based on the stereotype. I could not have been more delighted, to be wrong. I love, this show. It came to me at a time in my life when I really needed to feel like I wasn't the only one failing to navigate life perfectly. It made me feel connected to others. Not quite so alone. Even though I couldn't relate to the main narrative in the exact way Rebecca was suffering, the empathy I felt for her and all the characters struck a chord, somewhat literally at times as I think the music is brilliant. I don't typically care for musicals, but when done well as this show is, you get the idea. This really is high art in disguise. It deserves a bigger audience, and love heaped on the talent that brought it alive. I wish this could inspire all of us to be more honest about how we manage to navigate life. There are some scary places we all go, that we are still afraid to even whisper about. Mental health in particular, needs all the time in the sun it can get. This was long. Again I love your stuff, keep up the good work. I know a youtuber's got talent when I can listen to a 45 minute video and then click for more. Before I go, something you said about the light going off for you, when Rebecca was turning down that one night stand really struck me. Reminded me of a Nirvana song, "...all we know, is all we are." How could you know? We all experience life through our own narrow little lens. Empathy really is everything. It's in such short supply nowadays. I felt like I got to see that from your perspective, a male one. It was, a trip, to think that never even occurs to a guy. To have to gauge what the reaction would be, if it would be dangerous even to say no. I'm sure there are men who have had that situation as well, not to dismiss anyone, but I think you get the idea. Anyway I am rambling. Thanks.
I know I come 3 years after this video, but I watched an interview of the actress playing Heather and the actor playing Josh and I believe that they said that the casting call did not mention race, and that the show creators wanted to make the characters correspond to their own background, so maybe they just filled the gap afterwards, according to who they chose to cast ? I think it's pretty cool
Please do continue what you do! I just rewatched the show entirely, it is so therapeutic. And your videos just make me so happy and confirm my belief that this piece of art is revolutionary. Thank you so much for all! I hope you will do more on the last season as well :D
Really good video! A really good explanation of cultural appropriation can be found in Lindsay Ellis' recent video on Pocahontas. She does a good job of being academic in her approach and using strong examples to explain the concept.
On the topic of cultural appropriation, I've heard it explained by a really great video essay-creator(?) Lindsay Ellis - cultural appropriation is an entirely neutral term. It just 'is'. Like a Bollywood movie taking place in America and portraying American things is technically cultural appropriation but it's not harmful because it's not being enacted against a marginalized group. The same cannot be said for, say, Pocahontas. And sometimes that appropriation doesn't do harm, sometimes it does regardless of the direction it's going. Also, the irony of me saying all of this as a whites woman, and hearing this explanation originally from another white woman, is not lost on me so take it with a grain of salt. I'm glad you brought up being kind of...obsessed with CXG because I've been insecure about that lately as well. It's funny but I was excited to see you mention Crazy Ex GirlFans because I've been listening to it non stop lately especially as I packed for college. When I take a shower or paint I listen to songs from CXG or the podcast again. I think one part of it is liking being so attached something, or rather having something to be so attached to. I haven't felt this attached to a piece of media since Parks and Recreation but even my affection for that pales in comparison to Crazy because I feel like CXG improves on qualities that Parks and Rec had - like showing the consequences of having one character be the scape goat that everyone bullies. So yeah, Im way too attached to it and find myself searching for any new media on it to digest and especially bug my friends consistently to watch it. But like you said in the video, it's relatability is a big selling point to those who do find it palatable. I didn't even realize some of my own underlying issues, or rather how common and nuanced they are, until I saw them depicted here. I understand Rebecca's feelings and actions because the feeling of being alone in a crowded room is so relatable, even if the act of pole dancing to get that crowded room to finally pay attention to you is not. So yeah, this was a lot but really I just feel validated in my aggressive love for this show. There are flaws, obviously, little continuity errors that Crazy Ex GirlFans points out, but in the end i love it more for them. It's real to me in that way and makes me excited to see what happens and what new doors they open. I'm so glad someone like you is around that has this passion but also the know-how and motivation to put it into this medium.
I personally think as a society, we normalize unhealthy behaviors. Jealousy is thought of to be desired when it's really not trusting your partner. The whole second season intro number is a testament of another misconception of a healthy behavior. "Because when you call her crazy, you're just calling her in love". Another big one was the reveal of Greg being an alcoholic. Initially I was taken aback by this. It seemed a stretch and with all their assembled clips felt like it was pulling at strings to try to make him an alcoholic. But if you really think about what constitutes as an alcoholic (someone who drinks alone and who's drinking affects multiple aspects of their life) like yes, he is one. We are so used to seeing characters on shows and people in our lives trying to drink away the pain. When that behavior is extremely unhealthy. I think what makes this show fantastic is that we're all a little bit crazy so though we can't relate to everything there is definitely something for everyone to relate to. Maybe not obviously or maybe things are only willing to admit when they are alone.
Even though this show could have been more racially diverse, it's representation of the lgbtq+ community has left me pretty satisfied! Three Members of the main cast are Bi, One is gay, one either Bi, pan or lesbian and in group numbers there is constantly incidental lgbtq representation (for example the guy in the Music Man Parody)
Hey, just so you know........I love your UA-cam videos! So thoughtful and insightful. Funny at times, and I always learn something. You're awesome, bagels after midnight!
Great and impressive analysis. I have degrees in psychology and I'm an online English tutor for all ages around the world. You make great points! 6 year old video. What do you think now that I presume you've watched the entire series? I thought the characters as depictions of various psych conditions was clever and the depiction of symptoms of BPD was illuminating. I'm babbling. I hope you enjoyed the rest of the series and thank you for this video.
Thank you! As a whole, I think CXG stands as a great, truly unique work in American television. Layered, exciting, visually bold. Looking back now, it was the perfect middle ground between network television (where every episode had to be an Episode) and the more cinematic tendencies of modern-day event series (which, for better or worse, feel like long movies). So passionately produced and miraculously broadcast. They really got away with murder on this one!
@@BagelsAfterMidnight Agreed. Speaking of murder, how about that old show Hannibal? How they got away with doing so much on network TV! Probably my 2 favorite shows.
Crazy EX GF shows up on my Netflix feed as a recommendation once, so I checked the first episode. The next thing I know, I'm watching the last episode of the last season. I love the humor of this show, the lesson and how I can relate not just to Rebecca but almost all of them. I wonder, who would hate a funny, comical, and relatable show? Hmmm... I am a fan and will always be and until now, I'm still waiting for a show that's just like this.
i LOVE this show. it does a great job informing people about bpd and i super love that filipino culture was explored in one episode. as for the diverse issue, i think they should have expanded on jim's story and introduced two black women characters into the main cast. i also found it really off-putting that mrs hernandez was silent in the first episodes.
It's weird to put so much thought into analyzing one piece of media? Yeah, but a lot of people are weird in that particular way. In retrospect we will be able tell whether it was all worth analyzing in real time as opposed to afterwards like The Wire and all those hundreds of Star Trek podcasts. I have a friend who has a podcast about Quantum Leap, and it's not even the only podcast about Quantuum Leap. And she and everyone are fully aware it's a not great show!! It's a very very dumb and sometimes problematic goofy-ass show! But it makes for a great starting point to analyze television with. How much more challenging and interesting must it be to talk about a GOOD show? I always find it easier to poke holes in things or point out problematic tropes rather than explain why something is so good. I just end up excitedly yelling at people to watch things so they don't get cancelled. (RIP Crazyhead)
Plus, there are scholars who dedicate their whole life and academic career to studying certain authors or artists. Just because television and film are fairly new mediums doesn't mean that they don't deserve quality and in depth analysis (in my opinion, some may disagree)
I'm 14 minutes into the video, and the moment he mentioned a Crazy Ex-Girlfriend podcast, my first thought was, "You just ruined my life. I ain't doing shit now."
I wanted to touch on your feelings that you may be waisting your time analyzing one show, especially since you mentioned that you read the comments. I perceived in this video that you felt you had to justify your love of Crazy Ex Girlfriend in order to establish the value of the content you're creating. I just wanted to say that any analysis you do is valuable. Even if there comes a day when you look back at this channel and think "what was I doing wasting my time for so long" or if you decide that this show was never worth your time (although I don't think that's very likely), you can rest assured knowing that the analysis you do now is good practice for expressing the things that will be most important to you in your life. Plus, people like me enjoy these videos an awful lot.
I think it's fine to focus on one show because the show is so innovative -- creatively, sociologically and psychologically. It's wonderful that she created a piece that could help you, or any man, see through a woman's perspective. I really appreciate your wonderful analyses, which I have just discovered and am binge-watching.
Thank you thank you thank you For having this channel!!!!! Finally I can send my friends videos that explain why this show is so incredibly brilliant without rambling on for hours! :D *proceeds to watch ALL THE UPLOADS*
For the record, it's definitely reductive to say Rebecca is white because she is indeed Jewish, but in this video, I'm speaking to and responding to how she's been perceived at a glance, in my experience, when people are considering whether or not to watch the show and they see what looks to be another white face in an incrementally changing media landscape.
That was the issue, and while it's somewhat related to the broader question of "are Jewish people white?" that's a different point to be made.
Regardless, it felt potentially offensive at the time and now I see it has been -- so I apologize to you and also to Rachel Bloom: she is, to me, certainly more than the "white person" I had to describe her as repeatedly throughout the video.
I've heard that in America, Jewish people are considered white. But in Europe, this is most definitely not the case.
I was actually going to bring this up (mostly because I got in an internet fight about "which minority has it worse" and Jews were seen as not having as legitimate of issues because they were white and I had to stop myself from giving a historical rundown to make the argument that they should pretty much be considered PoC) but I'm glad you got to it first! Jews are definitely a minority, they have definitely be subjugated in the US, and I think the show addresses that in a really wonderful way. They even talk about how Rebecca doesn't "look" Jewish (Darryl's nose comment). As a white-looking Latina I really appreciated that, to be honest.
Anyway, good work! :)
I think Jews are considered white except by white supremacists. Because we can pass. But my daughter was interviewed in an article, and soon after I googled her and found some assholes rating her looks - with the conclusion being "That chick is a jew!".
White jews are white; nonwhite jews aren't white. It's pretty simple. We do experience prejudice on the basis of our culture, but it's impossible to argue that those of us who are white don't also experience privilege, especially in America. It's a complicated experience, but I wouldn't say calling white jews "white" is complicated or reductive at all. And there most definitely are jews of color.
It depends on who you ask. I get told by other minorities that I don't count as "white" ALL THE TIME. But I think I count as white. I am impacted by bigotry as a jew, yes, and I always have had to deal with that. However, I definitely have white privilege. So...who knows. It might also depend on location.
I didn't debunk an unfair article. But I could, if I wanted to
This comment is amazing. I see what you did there and it’s everything! 👏🏼
whoop de freakin do
Hahahahahahah
I came to the show because of the "bisexual-is-legit" song. Then I found out about Josh being Asian and other things beside Asian, such as someone who loves dancing or someone who tries to be a good person. Just the fact that Josh's parents have different opinions and/or express them differently, as real people would. Then I realised that Heather could grow to be really interesting and so aware of everything including herself, that is inspiring. And Paula. Paula gets to be a human being that is not only a mother or a woman over 30. That is amazing.
Thank you for sharing with us your own process and thoughts about the show.
SPOILER ALERT FOR CRAZY EX GIRLFRIEND
Paula’s abortion story really wounded me. I have my own severe mental health problems, and there have been times where my problems blinded me to the point that I couldn’t be there for my friends/family who could have really used my support. I get it, nobody wants to bother you when you’ve, for instance, just come out of the hospital from an attempt on your own life, but finding out later that they were suffering in silence to give you space is a special new type of suffering. It makes you feel selfish, and frankly it actually does make you less aware of the people in your life. Rebecca realizing that Paula needed her and she wasn’t there, was a powerful and painful moment that I think a lot of us can understand.
And speaking to the bisexual song, that was right around the time I first came out, and I think it helped that I was getting a heaping helping of representation. This show changed a lot of things for me along my journey through this *crazy* world. I’ll never not love it
I think anyone of any race could play Rebecca on stage but I would really prefer they be Jewish. Her identity as a Jewish woman is incredibly important to the plot. And as a Jewish woman who rarely sees Jewish women onscreen, and when we do they often aren't cast as Jews (Mrs. Maisel for example) it was amazing to see representation like that onscreen. Also body diversity :)
I recommend watching russine doll them
I really liked this video it did help me understand the pitfalls of recommending this show to people, people who can't relate to Rebecca don't really understand her motivations and how she can be a complex and relatable character. When I tried to recommend the show to my sister, she hated it, she found Rebecca annoying and entirely terrible, and wasn't a fan of the musical numbers. I also have trouble recommending the show to others because this show feels so personal to me, I worry that people won't "get" the show, or not find it as intriguing and introspective as I do. I really love these videos because they explain these complexities in the show, and lets me experience the show through another person's perspective.
Thank you for articulating the reasons I am too horrified to recommend this show to people.
I completely agree about recommending it. I usually say that the show is so ridiculously up my alley comedy wise that I realise others might not be as into it as I am, it might not just be as a perfect fit as it is for me. I don't know if that's good or not but I find that people give it a chance just because I'm so enthusiastic about it.
Jenna Stannard you've put all of my fears about recommending this show to people together.
If I finally manage to pester someone to watch it will they actually understand and appreciate it? I think I would be...upset if someone watched it and said it was shit. It's easily my favourite show.
I just tell myself that everyone likes different things. I know my husband isn't an especially big fan of the series but he doesn't listen to lyricals and is not so obsessively analytical as I can be. Which means that he won't "get" it to the same extent that I fell like I do.
I don't recommend it expecting people to love it as much as I do, because that would demand a bit more than your normal investment in TV. I recommend it to other people expecting that some will like it and others won't. If people then love it, that's when I get happy!
I just think the series deserves a lot more viewers than it has, and recommending it is the only way it will get more viewers. I just tell people to watch a couple of episodes before judging it. If they think it's crap, then it's frankly their loss.
I couldn't agree more. However, I have been pretty successful so far in getting my friends to start watching it. Some like it, some LOVE it. My sister and I sing the songs all the time together:) but I do agree that it is a difficult show to pitch.
In reference to seeing yourself represented, I was utterly delighted seeing Darryl in season 1 realise that he's bisexual.
That scene in the gym where he's appreciating the butts of people regardless of their gender.
And says "Could I be...?"
There's just so much joy on his face, it was wonderful.
And later when he's super excited and tells White Josh "I'm a bothsexual!"
He's so happy that he's learned something important about himself and now he has a word to describe his feelings.
That's very much how it was for me. Initially scary with questioning heterosexuality, but eventually joyous acceptance.
Questioning and discovering one's sexuality can be a very scary process, and I wouldn't want to dismiss that for anyone.
But it can also be a wonderful experience where finally an aspect of yourself makes sense. And I'm glad this show celebrated that.
Nerdtrashv1 😊
I’m biromantic and a demigirl, and the initial fear of questioning heterosexuality, but the eventual joyous acceptance is so relatable and it really applies to figuring out your gender identity as well xd
I never really thought of Josh as "dumb" as much as "sheltered", as so many "bros", or people who are kind of stuck in their high school glory days tend to be.
I’m the very first episode we see him proudly announce that he lives in West Covina, and he goes “91719!!” like it’s some kind of a battle cry for the high school football team. He’s supposed to be, what, in his late 20s? But he gives me “I hang out around the parking lot to interact with the other kids” vibe. Not in a creepy, “I get older, they stay the same age” way, but like he never fully grew out of that mentality. His character always bothered me but now I get why that is, and that it’s definitely intentional. We _all_ know that guy lol
He was written as ditzy-not very bright as the seasons went on. When she first saw him in NYC I thought he was really smart. The diversity amongst the cast was terrific! Paula is a little chunky and has a double chin just like me! Rachel is not a sz 2. I remember that no big designer would dress her for the Emmy's because she was bigger than a sz 4 so they didn't have any samples for her. And some designers didn't want their name linked to a sz 8 lady. Good God! I'd give anything to be a sz 8!
I'm a bpd sufferer and I feel like in a way this show is made to show how supportive people actually are except in the real world people like me who suffer with borderline personality disorder actually get stigmatized or left to deal with it alone. I like how they've made the show but if only real life was like that and people actually weren't so ignorant towards bpd. They really should make a real film about bpd showing what it's really like for a bpd sufferer.
I get the impression that us, mentally ill people, can only count on other mentally ill people.
The others can't understand
Believe me, we ADHDers understand the struggle.
So.. the DSM criteria for Borderline Personality Disorder. It may be maligned for being unfairly used to label women, but it's a very legitimate disorder that many people suffer from. She's probably the most sympathetic presentation, ever.
Wondering if you wrote this comment before or after her diagnosis lol. But I had the same thought since the beginning
As someone with the disorder I never felt more validated than this show. It felt so honest and made it more human despite the stigmatization that is still touched on.
I'm so happy that you've made this channel. Considering the show's small fan-base I didn't really expect there to be any analysis videos for it at all, so I was super excited to find a whole channel dedicated to it! It don't think it's that unusual to talk about just one thing, there are a lot of show/film specific channels for things like Star Trek, Adventure Time, Game of Thrones, ect., so why not this? Whether it's weird or not, if it's what you want to talk about then you should keep talking about it. :)
Looking forward to your thoughts on the next season!
in your topic about cultural appropriation you couldve mentioned that "group hang" the shakira parody is actually a comment on the bastardization of latin american cultures and how latin american cultures are often conflated and treated with a hand-waved "same difference" attitude. rebecca is a white woman singing a song in the style of a colombian woman inside of a "latin fusion" restaurant ABOUT the bastardization of mexican cuisine. its not even latin american food just shit that may or may not be vaguely foreign. theyre yelling "salsa! burrito! taquitos! guacamole! pizza! spanish! spanish! spanish! spanish! español! guadalajara! sicily!" while rebecca yells "DOES THE CHEF EVEN KNOW WHAT MEXICO IS?!
her love for josh (and all romantic relationships really because she says josh “awakened her”) is rooted in the association with summer camp and her experience in musical theatre.
I also think this idea that the show doesn't have enough diversity sorta ignores a lot about the characters. You have Paula who's an older woman and a mother, yet still a fully realized character with goals she pursues, Darryl who's bi and a single father, white Josh who's gay, etc. So even with their white characters they are giving representation to groups that rarely get it. If fact Paula is actually the only example of her kind I have ever seen.
I'm sorry but this video is wrong because it is called issues to address and in fact if you pay attention you'll realize that there are no underlying issues to address.
quiroz923 this comment is undeniably cute
loooool quizoz923do u speak for all of us?;)
@@bk138gt6 And adorably obsessed.
You're literally the only youtube channel that posts videos longer than 10 minutes that I watch without distraction, I don't pause it to go get food, I don't have it in a smaller window while browsing the web on another. Thank you so much for your insight and passion for this show, I truly believe it's brilliant and so personal for us, the Rebecca's of the world. It has helped me through the darkest of the times, always with a laugh and a shared tear. It has made me feel less alone, sometimes it feels impossible to see there are others feeling things that are normally portrayed as tragic (fear of being friendless, why does nobody love me?, etc) and this show, as you mentioned, allows us to look from the other side, to see how we're not crazy but only human.
I'd say that Josh can be naive and oblivious. But I wouldn't say he's unintelligent. Thank you for creating such good analysis on the show.
"Why is it so brilliant?" BECAUSE IT JUST IS. Obviously.
would you ever consider doing individual analysis of specific songs from the show ? you have such a great insight :)
Dami Adesina I second this! Great idea.
Yes please!! I would love that.
Yes, more analysis please. We're all really desperate to talk about CEG in any way until season 3 starts. Then we can talk about season 3. And Season 3 in relation to season 1. And season 3 in relation to season 2. I guess we can talk (again) about season 1 in relation to season 2.... or speculate about season 4....
Yes, especially "I Have Friends" LOL
That's a good idea but I think most of the songs are too short to make an analysis out of it
It's so great to see that the series really does have a 4 season arc and they never cheated in between and made Rebecca skip steps or jump ahead, you truly have to sit through many many bad choices and setbacks to see her eventually get better in a realistic way. If you expect the show to 'deconstruct' the term crazy in a single episode or even a season, they'll be disappointed. It's a complex term if you really think about it so it takes a longer time to deconstruct.
I don't often comment on videos, but I love what you have done here. Especially near the end where you notice the problem of sexual rejection and how scary, and sometimes life threatening that can feel to a woman. Taking note of where we need to rethink our attitudes and calmly addressing them without being offended or defensive is, in my opinion, how we will be able to evolve as a society. We SHOULD be able to point these things out to one another without one side feeling attacked or criticized for past behavior, learning and adapting is to me responsible citizenship, if I can use such a corny word. Well done you!
It seems to me that most of the white characters really should be white (could you imagine Daryl as any other race and still keeping the "1/8th Chippewa" joke?) but most of the non-white characters could be white and not effect the story.
You bring up some issues that I've been thinking about a lot lately when you mention stereotypes of both the "crazy" person as well as the "dumb Filipino." I was watching a review of Riverdale where the narrator, who did not care for the show, was dismissing the main homosexual character on the show. He called Kevin Keller a feminine stereotype that exists only in their relation to women, aka their gal-pal. The problem with stereotypes is that the DO exist. There are extremely effeminate homosexual men just as there are dumb Filipinos (although, I don't know if I was aware that this was a stereotype before). To deny that is to deny that those people exist at all as well as deny their representation on TV. I'm not the most masculine gay man out there, so if the only representations of gay men we're "allowed" to show on television are of the hyper-masculine and completely "straight-acting" gay men, then I will be unable to see myself in TV just as if there were no gay men featured at all. The creator of that Riverdale review completely, and likely conveniently, forgets to mention that there are two other men on the show that cannot be pigeon-holed into a heterosexual box: Kevin's bf who is a tough gang member and the seemingly unsure of his sexuality Moose. Like with the Filipinos on CEG, Josh may be dumb, but we see through his family and Father Brah that it's not that Filipinos are dumb, but Josh is just a seemingly dumb guy. Dumb people exist. Dumb Filipinos exist. As long as the show isn't relying solely upon a stereotype, all types of people should be featured, otherwise, as I said earlier, you're denying people the opportunity to see themselves in TV and fiction. And for many, that's part of CEG's appeal, finally getting a chance to see a bit of yourself on screen. Whether it's a proud to be bisexual, an older woman not content with her place in life, a person suffering from anxiety, or a dumb Filipino.
Also, I would LOVE an in-depth analysis of Trent. I think he's one of the most important characters on the show. He's Rebecca without the empathy and the fact that he's borderline creepy but also somehow not only reinforces that further.
@@Venslor unpopular opinion but I think him and rebecca have the same sort of issues but it's just from her perspective so it doesn't show his empathy. If you think about the things she has done and Trent has done they're pretty similar. The only thing is you see her reasons and backstory behind doing them. The amount of empathy this show makes you have and somewhat of understanding over mental illness is incredible and I love this show so much.
While it's true gay men like that exist, Kevin Keller is a pre existing character in the archie comics show that didn't fit the stereotypical role of gay BFF for the female leads even though they were friends in the comics and has more of a masculine guy with no interest in theater or making sassy comments/pop culture comments like gay men are expected to do in television.
Riverdale morphed him into that stereotype but didn't even bother ever giving him depth or focus like the straight characters . Kurt from glee was also someone you called a stereotypical character but he was treated like man character and was allowed depth that Kevin never got.
I have the same problems you mentioned with cultural appropriation, and I believe, as you said, the limits are very blurred and we don't even agree in consensus to what it entails.
I think diversity is wonderful and necessary and CEG is one of the few shows I know that integrates so many different characters and still humanizes people. The relationship between White Josh and Darryl as one of the healthiest contrasts nicely with some of the encounters that Rebecca has with men. It's undeniable that CEG it's a show written my women.
You made lots of nice points in the video, it was very interesting to see how the race-bend might now work on some cases to avoid stereotypes.
I just wanted to say that I love this show with all my heart and made me confront some mental health issues on my own that I'm still trying to deal with. I had to literally see Rebecca fall over and over to realize I don't want to be in that downwards spiral and that I should ask for help.
amy wagner oh wow I mentioned Lindsay in my comment too! Small Internet world, I'm glad there's a lot of overlap between Bagel fans and Lindsay Ellis fans
During the summer I've watched a lot of Korean TV, and not a few Indian ones as well. From that perspective the US argument over 'cultural appropriation' seems painfully parochial and a bit silly. EVERYBODY's doing hip-hop, EVERYBODY's doing rap. Everybody's bustin' dance moves out of the popular music videos. The 'cool kids' are all dressing like their idols. The pop ballads sound the same. Bollywood musical numbers now come with a rap bridge. If a Korean action show can have a hard-rockin' rap musical soundtrack I can't see why Rebecca Bunch shouldn't do it too.
We are all Rebecca Bunch.
Just no! I have bpd and don't ever say that again. People who don't have bpd are not like us in the slightest bit.
About the cultural appropriation part, I remember watching a Lindsey Ellis video where she analyzed Pocahontas and Moana. She argued that cultural appropriation is a neutral term. It's not bad, but it isn't good either. However, there are right and wrong ways of doing it where they can come off as offensive. Even the best of things can end up being culturally appropriated. I think Avatar the Last Airbender comes to mind. The cartoon show creators aren't Asian even though the show has influences from different Asian cultures (Japanese, Chinese etc.) Despite this, it is still a respectful portrayal of the culture. Compare that to the movie where it somehow got white washed even with a POC as a director. Personally, I don't think there is anything wrong with cultural appropriation, but I do believe there is a really thin line.
I think there’s a difference between appropriation and exchange.
@Sunday Girl @M0M0
I don't know the context anymore since it's two years ago but I know the definition of cultural appropriation has definitely shifted faster with social media. I'll take the L on this one because I've realized my perspective changed a little and started to be more nuanced. You're right by now that definition is super incomplete to the discussion now.
@Sunday Girl I agree, but I think the examples you give are very specific. Things like religious artifacts are always appropriation, but sometimes it's not as simple as that. What about something like a sombrero? It has been portrayed before as a way to stereotype Mexicans (I'm one myself)...but if an American told me they bought one because they genuinely like the look of it, I think that would be more appreciation. A sombrero has no significance or sacred meaning in Mexican culture, it's just a hat. What about, like the OP said, Avatar the Last Airbender? The creators are americans and so is the network, so is it wrong for them to make a show inspired by asian culture, especially when they did their best to portray it in a respectful manner? I've heard a lot of ppl express happiness at feeling represented in that show, at seeing so many POC, so many complex women, etc. So...is what they did wrong when it brought joy to a big amount of people from those groups? How can you get diversity and more representation if creators are only allowed to tell stories from their own limited perspectives? It's a complex topic.
Bagels, ya did good. Listen, we women are not expecting a helluva lot so when a man makes the leap of perspective, it's a big deal. Keep flogging this. It will change the world. Just wish it would happen faster.
Thanks, Paula
What a condescending thing to say to someone
I hope you're expecting more from the men in your life these days.
When CEG ends, I do hope that you’ll continue this type of work and analyze other shows! I’ve binged these videos and am so glad I found this channel. You’re very insightful and my appreciation of the show has definitely deepened through your analysis.
I think your revealing some unwarranted insecurity here: there is immense value in diving this deeply into this material, and your perspective is particularly apt both because of your background and because you're smart and, crucially, you care. You've presented an excellent case for the value of CEG in many ways. You certainly could apply these techniques to say, The Incredible Jessica James, and there'd be value in that as well, but CEG does seem to be a particularly appropriate subject for this analysis because it is a nexus of deconstruction for a variety of issues. Keep up the good work and thank the Goddess you haven't discovered Terrace House ;).
I love the time and effort you put into the analysis of a show I think is pretty gd brilliant but hardly see anyone else acknowledge it
I would imagine Rachel Bloom did not know there was a Filipino stereotype.
wasn’t the whole conceit of Josh being asian based on both her experiences growing up with an asian jock in high school and then sorta comparing that to how asians in white media are generally scrawny nerds or hyper achievers because haha overbearing asian parent meme
ergo he is based on a stereotype but more on a general Umbrella Asian stereotype with the aim to subvert
I always thought Josh had to be Filipino because is smoother for its relationship with Valencia (being Latin) and for the dynamic with father brah. Rice is not the only thing linking both cultures, there is also religion and they play it so well. As a Latin women, the connection between Latin and Filipino (in real life and in CXG) felt so natural... At least for me.
yeah, i'm Latin and i also thought Rebecca's comment about rice being the only thing connecting their cultures was weird and untrue. there's many obvious things we share in common like Catholicism, being brown, usually dark hair and brown eyes, colonized by the Spanish,
i agree!! especially as someone dating a filipina theres a lot of unity in our cultures and different traditions and familial standards
I've just finished watching this show and my reaction is that this is the single most brilliant artistic piece I've ever seen. Really gives light to the phase art imitates life. It made me more open to taking a close look at the people in my own life and the fact that I feel so like Rebecca is both scary and enlightening. Never thought just one show would change the way I live my life
NOTIFICATION CREW!! also 41 minutes? you're too good to us
Found my way here from Reddit. CXG is the rare show that has hooked me on all levels. I caught the show on Netflix and it was simultaneously an emotional gut punch and a warm fuzzy blanket. I was going through some personal issues at the time and CXG was the show I needed to help me move forward. Since then I've been trying to get friends and family to watch with little success. But I found the subreddit and now I have this channel as an outlet for discussion and analysis. You did a really good job with this video and have earned yourself a new subscriber. I look forward to more content in the future.
It's so difficult to explain this show to people because on the surface, as you said, it's either sexist or feminist and the nuance of it really hard to describe. It's also frustrating because I'm someone who can't help but analyze the media I consume. Crazy Ex Girlfriend was so great to me that I actually watched it twice, and have read/watched a lot of analysis on it and behind the scenes stuff with Rachel Bloom. While I think watching the show and enjoying it the first time through does speak for itself, there is definitely a lot of insight I've gained going the extra mile with the show. Which is something that you can't expect people do. I'm a media student who has always loved analyzing television in particular so it comes easy for me. But most people just want to watch a show once and move on. And while I do think it's beneficial to even do that, it's not going to accomplish everything Rachel Bloom has set out to do. Which is frustrating for people who have invested the time to really study the show. And, in my experience, most people don't want to sit and listen to you explain it to them.
I always love these videos, do keep them coming.
I did not know anything about this series when I started watching it and much as Rebecca was in denial the first series so was I. I have struggled so hard with if she's crazy or not. As the series progress I must admit that maybe she is, but since she's also so incredibly human that's hard for me to reconcile with. Which is the whole point I have to admit, that being crazy isn't being "other" or neatly boxed, it's just one more layer of humanity. I still struggle to see that she actually dropped everything and moved for Josh, because in my mind I can't imagine that, what I can however imagine is being miserable and seeing Josh as a way to be happy again (as she was in camp) and moving for that.
I love that the dissonance between thinking feminism/acting feminist is mentioned here, it's one of my favourite things to laugh about. I know that it's not everyone's cup of tea but I do thing that, done the right way, it enforces the feminist message. It avoids being to "preachy" while often directly highlighting the message in a comprehensible way.
Lastly I'd just like to say that while Greg maybe could not have been Asian I do believe that he could have been a multitude of other ethnicities.
I'm so incredibly happy that a. most of these issues were at least addressed in season 3 and b. you answered my one kernal of doubt that was "why am I listening to a man talk about this show?" Thank you for your content
I really love your videos and find them wonderfully thoughtful and reassuring - I've been watching for a while so I wanted to say that first. :) I haven't had the chance to read through the comments so I'm sorry if these thoughts are a repeat, but I had two things that I figured might be helpful to share. (oh, and to put this in perspective, I'm a Hispanic and Jewish woman).
The first is about cultural appropriation - and your example of the failed taco/burrito truck. The problem with that example (if it is the one I'm thinking of, but whether way hopefully this is helpful) is that the interview with the creators of that truck contained narratives of their time in Mexico where they loved the fresh tortillas available to them and wanted to learn how to make them. The Mexican women, however, who made and sold them didn't want to share their methods (or maybe they didn't understand English - the women remarked about their broken Spanish), and so the visiting women described how they spied on the Mexican women - without their consent - making the tortillas to learn their secrets; they then proceeded to return to the U.S., open up a truck, and make money off of their pilfered knowledge. So the problem in this example is not the existence of the truck or the Americanized creations (I'm Puerto Rican, my partner is Mexican, and we try out Americanized food from our cultures all the time without any complaint - as long as they taste good! :) ), but rather that these women felt entitled to literally steal these women's cultural property for their own economic gain - and, importantly, they felt comfortable stealing the cultural property of a people often maligned in the U.S. and whose cuisine is generally considered worthy of little compensation outside of the foodie scene. This is a really helpful example of this type of problem, and of cultural appropriation. Intent isn't the only thing at play; how one gains access to another culture (especially a culture that is a minority or that is often treated with hostility) and how that culture feels about that sharing matters. If the women had received permission from the Mexican women (as many American and English women have, actually, with great economic success - for example, Diana Kennedy) to learn their craft, there wouldn't have been such a problem. So cultural appropriation, at times or on some level, is that lack of respect for what one is borrowing/learning and seeing that borrowing in an entitled and deserved way.
The second point I just wanted to tentatively raise is that I think it might be worth thinking about whether or not it's helpful to put Jewish people in the broad category of "White" in each instance in your analysis of, for example, diversity in the show. On the one hand, Jewish people do get to pass as broadly White very often and receive the benefits of that passing; it is also true that, for example, Jewish people are generally better represented in media broadly painted. It is, however, undeniable that anti-Semitism runs rampant throughout the U.S. (especially with the current political climate), and media has very often not, in fact, been kind to Jewish characters even when representing them (especially, for example, Jewish women in the romance genre). In these ways, a White person of Western-European descent and a White Jewish person have very different experiences and receive different treatment. I would say, then, that it's absolutely fair and important to point out that - in terms of color - there is a lot of [W]hiteness (it's also fair to make the case that Valencia, while a Latina, remains a very light-skinned one, and it is rare to see dark-skinned or Afro-Latinx properly represented in media) on Crazy Ex-girlfriend, and this is something to think about and maybe improve on. At the same time, though, the number of Jewish characters, I think, and the lack of stereotypical shaming of Jewish women especially on the show really excites me (especially as a Jewish woman). Hopefully that makes sense!
Anyway, looking forward to more of your videos!
Watching your vids makes me feel less alone, because none of my friends are as obsessed as I am with this show and I have the urge to discuss themes like those. All that being said.... congratulations! And thanks!!!
Can I just say that half of the reason I love your videos is your insightful commentary and the other half is how everyone commenting on your videos is either adding clever quips or equally insightful commentary. It is so hard to go anywhere on the internet, to look at the comment section and not see random and unnecessary hate. It's so awesome to see comment sections that are cordial and thoughtful. I forgot how much of a rarity it was until I saw actually looked through the comments of this. Thanks for creating an environment where this type of behavior blossoms.
Would love to see you do an essay on Jason from The Good Place.
Just discovered this channel three years later. I've been binging it the same way I originally binged CXG when I fell in love with it. This is fantastic commentary.
I have nothing of quality to add, except that you seem like a cool person and I enjoy watching your analysis whenever it pops up. The obsessing about "only one show" thing - a tv show, especially a good one is a complex thing with many other things compounded in it, whereas a painting, for example, usually has less material but somehow you can study one of those for years and you are not considered obsessed, you're just an expert.
This video is so comprehensive and like all your videos makes me rethink my perspective on show and the life.
Yet another incredible video! Keep up the great work! I'm going to follow your advice and resist the urge to angry read that review. Nothing irritates me more than people complaining when media depicts mental illness as sloppy and ugly when it is sloppy and ugly. A great number of symptoms are a living nightmare and I cannot explain what a panacea CEG has been in terms of letting me forgive myself for a lot of stuff. Rebecca Bunch is a frightening but comforting? mirror that media has never handed me before. Every show has its flaws but I cannot count CEG's relationship with metal illness as one of them. The show always portrays Rebecca as relatable but never shies from her culpability. "It's not okay but it's okay." If that makes any sense. It's a hard balance to strike but it's so important. So many times representation of mental illness swings from demonisation to woobification and they both suck. CEG hits it just right I think.
4 years later, but I feel this comment so much. The article seems ridiculously ignorant abt mental illness. "her mental health problem is unclear and undiagnosed and she takes two steps back for every one step forward". Um, yes, thats what actual peoples lives are like and it feels deeply Insulting to dismiss them as 'not woke enough' or something.
On the topic of cultural appropriation (which is such a complex idea in general), Lindsay Ellis explains it fairly well in her most recent video about Disney's Pocahontas; essentially, cultural appropriation in and of itself is neutral and can happen on any side, but can be negative depending on what group is appropriating what culture. (I'm not the best at explaining things and would recommend watching her video about it, but it helped my understanding a lot. Also, I've been enjoying your videos for a little while now and look forward to the next one!)
After thinking on it today, I actually think Bagel got something wrong: there is no reason to avoid casting minorities/nonstandard characters to avoid playing to stereotypes, at least not with *this* show, and even if there is, you could always cast a minority with a background that avoids this stereotype!
After all, the whole conceit is that Rebecca really is, by all accounts, a "crazy ex-girlfriend", a stalking, psychologically distressed woman chasing after her ex. And yet, by showing the human behind that stereotype, we learn to empathize with her, and understand her as a person. Similarly, even if Josh is a "stereotypical" dumb bro-ish Filipino, we are shown the real human who lies within the stereotype. If the concern with, say, changing Trent, was portraying an Asian as being awkward with women, then the show could easily show you enough of him so that you can't reduce him down to "silly little Asian", to see the person behind the stereotype.
The other solution to more minor characters (or even not-so-minor characters) is to feel free to just make them different minorities. While Nathaniel's character works best as a white guy (and perhaps Trent was more meant to be a reflection of Rebecca, so being white, Jewish, etc.. is more in fitting with the character's purpose), there is no reason that small-dicked Audra's fiance [Edited to Add: the fiance had a small dick, Audra doesn't have a small dick] couldn't have been Black, or Native American, for example. Similarly, an Indian or Black (or Native American! Darryl doesn't count! lol) Greg could have also been a part of the cast without the feeling of Rebecca chasing an "ethnic fetish", since he would be so physically different-looking from Josh.
Another excellent analysis that brought up a lot of issues I haven't thought much about (and some that I have). It's easy to nitpick other people's work. To anyone who criticizes Crazy Ex-Girlfriend's diversity issues, I would say to them: "Can you do better?" As you've pointed out, as a writer, if you "fix" one problem, you may introduce another problem (e.g. making Greg Asian might make people think Rebecca has an Asian fetish). Too much focus on one thing can lead to overwriting. The goal of writing is not to be perfect at everything or to please everyone. It's to produce a compelling, meaningful piece of work that has a clear vision and is respectful of humans. The writers of Crazy Ex-Girlfriend have most definitely accomplished this and try much harder to be diverse than any TV show I've seen.
To people who don't like Crazy Ex-Girlfriend, I would say give it a few more episodes, or if that is unpalatable, I hope some other inclusive TV show is more to their taste. It's okay if people don't find Crazy Ex-Girlfriend to their taste. Personally, even though many minority groups love Orange is the New Black, I found parts of it offensive and stopped watching it. My hope is that people believe inclusion is important and keep working to make their communities inclusive.
When you started talking about when you started this channel and the reasons why I got very worried you were going to follow it with a "and this is why I'm taking a break/stopping these videos". I'm definitely relieved that this is not true. Anyway, this was a great video! I always look forward to when you publish content
GODDAMMIT I WAS ABOUT TO GO TO SLEEP 😭😭😭😍😍😍
even when i'm too slow keep up, these videos made me apreciate so much i haven't noticed in the show before. it's also nice to try to folow someone's thought process. so weird to watch and not be able to repliquete the stuff. i should know.
damn it's good to know i'm not the only one who sees this much potential on this show and i'm ngl? i considered making a bunch of video essays on crazy exgirlfriend as well and felt a little bummed when i found out someone beat me to the punch. your videos are inspiring me bc they unfold exactly what makes crazy ex girlfriend brilliant which helps me employ these things in my writing.
I remember hearing somewhere that in Japan no one cared that Scarlett was cast in the lead in Ghost in the Shell, because it was an American production they all just assumed that it would star an American actress. The criticism I heard a lot was that it wasn't a problem of casting but rather a problem that movie studios will not shell out hundreds of millions of dollars to make a film without someone they view as a proven commodity in the lead role and it isn't the fault of one particular film or of one particular casting director that the movie studios in general do not feel there is a bankable female Asian action movie star in Hollywood.
A smart and well thought out analysis. I don't think anyone cruising youtube would listen to a 41-minute video unless it was really good, but you make it easy for us. Please keep the videos coming!
I love LOVE the use of Azumanga Daioh music in this vid.
I’m 4 years late to this incredible dissection of CXG’ video, (of which I still watch obsessively), BUT-
For the record, @ 24:44 in your discussion about races within the characters, which, imo is on point-EXCEPT; not all Americans, including my Scottish heritage red/blonde self, think Asians are “weird”.
I happen to think Asian people are incredibly beautiful and stand for a rich and promising culture within American society.
Never have I ever thought your assumption one time in my life, and I know, externally, I speak for many others within my same demographic.
Loved this video and your amazing thesis writing! Incredible!
I sort of hoped both this and and the show would have digged deeper into the hard question what is mental illness. As someone suffering from mental illnesses I would wish to see not only the struggle of simply unconventional behaviour invalidated as "crazy" represented, but also the struggles of having the actual suffering part of it invalidated as not crazy enough, as in "just looking for attention", that it can't be that bad and you just need to get your act together because everyone else has difficulties but can overcome them and yours can't be different as in "everyone gets sad sometimes",and people trying to talk you out of taking your medication, because they know so much better than your doctor that you are just being "duped by pharmaceutical industry".
I honestly didn't realize ( didn't look through your history too long apparently) that you started this show just in response to Crazy Ex Girlfriend. This is wonderful analysis, and I agree that media can shape the future. Your self reference at the end is adorable as well
I love your videos. Its nice to know I'm not the only one who feels so strongly about this show.
It worth talking about, and I enjoy hearing you talk about it.
Once again, you've said so many of the things that I've thought while consuming television and film. Thank for sharing your brain and heart with us. Whenever I watch your videos I wish that I could sit down with you and want other things because you think about media on another level.
Also, PS: Selfie is not as all the same as Crazy Ex, but it's another comedy that I believe did some similar work in terms of inclusion that Crazy Ex does. Selfie is no longer, but I still appreciate where it took me.
Until next time.
Now that I've seen all 4 seasons, everything in this show is so well crafted and planned out meticulously
Absolutely. No one with a diagnosis should be dismissed as crazy. The label is a tool for better self awareness. It's not an excuse to reduce someone. Her label just showed how she came to understand herself and grow. That deserves merit as a process.
I started watching this show and while I like the songs, I could only make it through the first season because past me was so tired of the stereotypes you mentioned and the cringe comedy was just too much. So I didn't bother watching it again when season 2 returned. However, I've changed a lot since then and ended up watching season 2 and 3 and I am now utterly obsessed with how good this show is. There's just so much intricacies lying under the surface that make the show, but are easy to miss at some points.
Thanks to you, Bagels at Midnight, for a wonderfully comprehensive video. You make me love Crazy Ex Girlfriend more and more.
It is feminist AND anti-feminist. It’s also sexist, and anti-sexism.
It’s so brilliantly written and nuanced.
I love listening to your analyses on CeG. A) Your voice is soothing B) youve really put a lot of thought into it. Love your work mate 😉
I really appreciate these videos and always make a point to watch (maybe more than once) but I also think when it comes to the point of representation, as a Native person, where I feel the show fails is with Daryl Whitefeather. I like the character but feel that his expression of native identity is very problematic. It is a stereotype, that the show doesn't deconstruct the way it does with other stereotypes. I think this is one point where Crazy Ex-Girlfriend needs to a bit more reflection.
Finally got around to watching this. So on-point. "While Crazy Ex-Girlfriend exists in a contemporary setting, it’s heart is set in the near future." Thank you for another thoughtful essay!
Re: Cultural Appropriation: Lindsay Ellis has a recent video about Disney's Pocahontas that explains the principle, its application, and its ramifications quite well.
So, I'm a crazy one like our girl, I want to say your enthusiasm about this show is so appreciated, I've been bingeing your essays. Thank you.
You make me feel so smart for watching and loving this show
Hey, I just wanted to say that I love your videos! I tried to get my husband to watch this show, but he just couldn't relate to Rebecca, which I suppose makes sense because he primarily only relates to male characters, and I primarily only relate to female characters. It's just nice to see that someone else gets all the nuanced messages that are buried deep beneath the surface of the series.
I just wanna say I love your videos and your analysis of the media have helped me to really appreciate the show on a much deeper level. Thank you for all your hard work :)
I love this channel, contextualizing CExGF has not only made me come back to it after not getting it the first time but become an advocate.
I’ve been binge watching these and I’m running out. I love your hearing your perspective, you’ve explained so many things I’ve agreed with and could never articulate myself.
You are mentioning in this video "The Mindy Project". Actually, these shows are not only both on my favorites list, but also they seem quite similar. Both are created by women and are romcoms. Both portray smart and successful women who people see as weird or maybe crazy. And the love stories between Danny and Mindy and Rebecca and Greg have a similar vibe to them.
I just found your channel and I LOVE your insight, commentary and (self)reflection! I also find that you put my thoughts and new things I hadn't thought about together in a structured, eloquent way that is amazing to listen to. Also, your voice is really calming and easy to listen to! And it's awesome to hear what an asian man has to say about this show that (at first glance at least) seems to be geared at white women. So: thank you so much for sharing your exitement on here and therefore with me. Nobody in my life is into this show, so binging your videos makes me really happy and exited for the show! ♥
I am a new sub, and just wanted to thank you for your uploads on this show. I resisted watching it, even though it kept popping into my various recommendation feeds, because the title put me off. As a woman, my knee-jerk reaction was yuck, based on the stereotype. I could not have been more delighted, to be wrong. I love, this show. It came to me at a time in my life when I really needed to feel like I wasn't the only one failing to navigate life perfectly. It made me feel connected to others. Not quite so alone. Even though I couldn't relate to the main narrative in the exact way Rebecca was suffering, the empathy I felt for her and all the characters struck a chord, somewhat literally at times as I think the music is brilliant. I don't typically care for musicals, but when done well as this show is, you get the idea. This really is high art in disguise. It deserves a bigger audience, and love heaped on the talent that brought it alive. I wish this could inspire all of us to be more honest about how we manage to navigate life. There are some scary places we all go, that we are still afraid to even whisper about. Mental health in particular, needs all the time in the sun it can get.
This was long. Again I love your stuff, keep up the good work. I know a youtuber's got talent when I can listen to a 45 minute video and then click for more. Before I go, something you said about the light going off for you, when Rebecca was turning down that one night stand really struck me. Reminded me of a Nirvana song, "...all we know, is all we are." How could you know? We all experience life through our own narrow little lens. Empathy really is everything. It's in such short supply nowadays. I felt like I got to see that from your perspective, a male one. It was, a trip, to think that never even occurs to a guy. To have to gauge what the reaction would be, if it would be dangerous even to say no. I'm sure there are men who have had that situation as well, not to dismiss anyone, but I think you get the idea. Anyway I am rambling. Thanks.
I know I come 3 years after this video, but I watched an interview of the actress playing Heather and the actor playing Josh and I believe that they said that the casting call did not mention race, and that the show creators wanted to make the characters correspond to their own background, so maybe they just filled the gap afterwards, according to who they chose to cast ? I think it's pretty cool
Please do continue what you do! I just rewatched the show entirely, it is so therapeutic. And your videos just make me so happy and confirm my belief that this piece of art is revolutionary. Thank you so much for all! I hope you will do more on the last season as well :D
Really good video! A really good explanation of cultural appropriation can be found in Lindsay Ellis' recent video on Pocahontas. She does a good job of being academic in her approach and using strong examples to explain the concept.
On the topic of cultural appropriation, I've heard it explained by a really great video essay-creator(?) Lindsay Ellis - cultural appropriation is an entirely neutral term. It just 'is'. Like a Bollywood movie taking place in America and portraying American things is technically cultural appropriation but it's not harmful because it's not being enacted against a marginalized group. The same cannot be said for, say, Pocahontas. And sometimes that appropriation doesn't do harm, sometimes it does regardless of the direction it's going. Also, the irony of me saying all of this as a whites woman, and hearing this explanation originally from another white woman, is not lost on me so take it with a grain of salt.
I'm glad you brought up being kind of...obsessed with CXG because I've been insecure about that lately as well. It's funny but I was excited to see you mention Crazy Ex GirlFans because I've been listening to it non stop lately especially as I packed for college. When I take a shower or paint I listen to songs from CXG or the podcast again. I think one part of it is liking being so attached something, or rather having something to be so attached to. I haven't felt this attached to a piece of media since Parks and Recreation but even my affection for that pales in comparison to Crazy because I feel like CXG improves on qualities that Parks and Rec had - like showing the consequences of having one character be the scape goat that everyone bullies. So yeah, Im way too attached to it and find myself searching for any new media on it to digest and especially bug my friends consistently to watch it.
But like you said in the video, it's relatability is a big selling point to those who do find it palatable. I didn't even realize some of my own underlying issues, or rather how common and nuanced they are, until I saw them depicted here. I understand Rebecca's feelings and actions because the feeling of being alone in a crowded room is so relatable, even if the act of pole dancing to get that crowded room to finally pay attention to you is not.
So yeah, this was a lot but really I just feel validated in my aggressive love for this show. There are flaws, obviously, little continuity errors that Crazy Ex GirlFans points out, but in the end i love it more for them. It's real to me in that way and makes me excited to see what happens and what new doors they open. I'm so glad someone like you is around that has this passion but also the know-how and motivation to put it into this medium.
I would like to see an analysis on the "crazy" part now that Rebecca has been diagnosed with BPD. It would be really interesting tbh
OMG THANKS FOR PUTTING THAT MUCH AN EFFORT FOR THAT VIDEO. awesome video. i love you, please keep doing these!
Sooooo if I haven't told you this before, I flippin love you and your channel.
I personally think as a society, we normalize unhealthy behaviors. Jealousy is thought of to be desired when it's really not trusting your partner. The whole second season intro number is a testament of another misconception of a healthy behavior. "Because when you call her crazy, you're just calling her in love". Another big one was the reveal of Greg being an alcoholic. Initially I was taken aback by this. It seemed a stretch and with all their assembled clips felt like it was pulling at strings to try to make him an alcoholic. But if you really think about what constitutes as an alcoholic (someone who drinks alone and who's drinking affects multiple aspects of their life) like yes, he is one. We are so used to seeing characters on shows and people in our lives trying to drink away the pain. When that behavior is extremely unhealthy. I think what makes this show fantastic is that we're all a little bit crazy so though we can't relate to everything there is definitely something for everyone to relate to. Maybe not obviously or maybe things are only willing to admit when they are alone.
The Azumanga Daioh music takes me back
Even though this show could have been more racially diverse, it's representation of the lgbtq+ community has left me pretty satisfied! Three Members of the main cast are Bi, One is gay, one either Bi, pan or lesbian and in group numbers there is constantly incidental lgbtq representation (for example the guy in the Music Man Parody)
Hey, just so you know........I love your UA-cam videos! So thoughtful and insightful. Funny at times, and I always learn something. You're awesome, bagels after midnight!
I am so glad for your channel please keep it up I have been lurking and watching for ages your commentary reminded me to give u kudos 🤗
Great and impressive analysis. I have degrees in psychology and I'm an online English tutor for all ages around the world. You make great points! 6 year old video. What do you think now that I presume you've watched the entire series? I thought the characters as depictions of various psych conditions was clever and the depiction of symptoms of BPD was illuminating. I'm babbling. I hope you enjoyed the rest of the series and thank you for this video.
Thank you! As a whole, I think CXG stands as a great, truly unique work in American television. Layered, exciting, visually bold. Looking back now, it was the perfect middle ground between network television (where every episode had to be an Episode) and the more cinematic tendencies of modern-day event series (which, for better or worse, feel like long movies). So passionately produced and miraculously broadcast. They really got away with murder on this one!
@@BagelsAfterMidnight Agreed. Speaking of murder, how about that old show Hannibal? How they got away with doing so much on network TV! Probably my 2 favorite shows.
@@erisbob haha totally. I remember being quite shocked by the gruesome imagery on that show
This video is fascinating given where the show goes
Crazy EX GF shows up on my Netflix feed as a recommendation once, so I checked the first episode. The next thing I know, I'm watching the last episode of the last season. I love the humor of this show, the lesson and how I can relate not just to Rebecca but almost all of them. I wonder, who would hate a funny, comical, and relatable show? Hmmm... I am a fan and will always be and until now, I'm still waiting for a show that's just like this.
i LOVE this show. it does a great job informing people about bpd and i super love that filipino culture was explored in one episode. as for the diverse issue, i think they should have expanded on jim's story and introduced two black women characters into the main cast. i also found it really off-putting that mrs hernandez was silent in the first episodes.
It's weird to put so much thought into analyzing one piece of media? Yeah, but a lot of people are weird in that particular way. In retrospect we will be able tell whether it was all worth analyzing in real time as opposed to afterwards like The Wire and all those hundreds of Star Trek podcasts.
I have a friend who has a podcast about Quantum Leap, and it's not even the only podcast about Quantuum Leap. And she and everyone are fully aware it's a not great show!! It's a very very dumb and sometimes problematic goofy-ass show! But it makes for a great starting point to analyze television with. How much more challenging and interesting must it be to talk about a GOOD show? I always find it easier to poke holes in things or point out problematic tropes rather than explain why something is so good. I just end up excitedly yelling at people to watch things so they don't get cancelled. (RIP Crazyhead)
Crazyhead got cancelled?!
It's future is uncertain at least
Plus, there are scholars who dedicate their whole life and academic career to studying certain authors or artists. Just because television and film are fairly new mediums doesn't mean that they don't deserve quality and in depth analysis (in my opinion, some may disagree)
I'm 14 minutes into the video, and the moment he mentioned a Crazy Ex-Girlfriend podcast, my first thought was, "You just ruined my life. I ain't doing shit now."
By one count there are FOUR of them, each very different, from the next, though one has only eked out four episodes to date.
I wanted to touch on your feelings that you may be waisting your time analyzing one show, especially since you mentioned that you read the comments. I perceived in this video that you felt you had to justify your love of Crazy Ex Girlfriend in order to establish the value of the content you're creating. I just wanted to say that any analysis you do is valuable. Even if there comes a day when you look back at this channel and think "what was I doing wasting my time for so long" or if you decide that this show was never worth your time (although I don't think that's very likely), you can rest assured knowing that the analysis you do now is good practice for expressing the things that will be most important to you in your life. Plus, people like me enjoy these videos an awful lot.
It's 3:30am and I'm taking a break from the mushroom identifications and I appreciate you and this video so much
I think it's fine to focus on one show because the show is so innovative -- creatively, sociologically and psychologically. It's wonderful that she created a piece that could help you, or any man, see through a woman's perspective. I really appreciate your wonderful analyses, which I have just discovered and am binge-watching.
Thank you thank you thank you For having this channel!!!!! Finally I can send my friends videos that explain why this show is so incredibly brilliant without rambling on for hours! :D *proceeds to watch ALL THE UPLOADS*
thank you!