Why Amazon Failed & Peter Jackson Succeeded
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- Опубліковано 19 жов 2023
- Behind the scenes footage from both LOTR and RoP.
I believe this is one of the biggest reasons for why the Lord of the Rings Trilogy was a masterpiece, and why the Rings of Power failed to achieve that.
Please watch the video until Richard Taylor's incredible speech at 5:05.
You just don't get this kind of passion anymore...
#lotr #tolkien #ringsofpower #amazon #fantasy - Розваги
If you want more diversity, then create your own story with more diversity.
Tolkien was a veteran of the WWI battlefield. How much diversity do you think there was on that battlefield within your own immediate company ?
How many women do you think were on that battlefield ?
It is arrogant for anyone to feel the right to change someone else’s creation.
Create your own of that what you want to be represented. Don’t steal someone else’s creation to then hijack as your own vehicle for your own personal opinions.
This 👌
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Actually none of those have any racial distinctive qualities within their characters. In Middle Earth there are explicitly clear racial distinctions, and not just individual character distinctions.
Your attempt to apply absolutist logic suggests it would be perfectly acceptable to cast NBA players as Dwarves.....because we're all the same, right ? How about wheelchair bound actors as Orcs ?
In some stories there are in fact racial distinctions. If you deny that, then should we re-do Roots and cast it with actors solely on the basis that they just want the audience to see someone that looks like them, and completely ignore the key relevance of race within the story ? How about we cast it with Vietnamese actors ? Would you have a problem with that ? Or, is this where you pull out your double standard ?
I'll bet you don't have a problem with the tradition of a "Dark Elf" character is always depicted as caucasion, but you'd protest if they always cast a black actor as a "Dark Elf". And if black actors were cast as the villains in all of your examples, you'd protest about that as well.....but you're ok so long as it's the hero of the story.
I actually don't have a problem with casting any actor with any character, so long as the cannon allows for it. The actors themselves should keep their opinions to themselves when doing the marketing for the work they have a vested interest in continuing to be employed in making that work. You know how we will arrive one day at race no longer being a factor in conversation other than for purposes of identification ? As Morgan Freeman says: when we stop talking about it.
there was only ONE woman soldier and she is the only one to defeat a Ring Wraith on screen.
What arrogance and narcissism! I didn't see MYSELF represented in PJ's films. Know what? WHO CARES!!! The films weren't telling my story, they were telling the story TOLKIEN wrote. And not one of the women in the LotR books/films just sat around waiting for men to "swoop in and save them." My gosh, the drivel those whiny actors spewed throughout this video - and clearly more than one of them never bothered to watch PJ's films or read the books. They should have - it may have helped RoP not be the garbage dumpster it's turned out to be.
I sat through all of season 1 so I could give the show as a whole a fair judgement. The only way I could finish it was to view it as just another fantasy series, a show that's completely unrelated to Tolkien's world in any way. The total lack of respect for Tolkien and the world he created permeates every second of it. The "creators" and actors care far more about the skin color and genitalia of the characters they're portraying, than they do about the source material and canon. The "creators" and actors themselves in this video even say they've used RoP to advance social issues. Tolkien's world isn't even mentioned unless it's in conjunction with the skin color and sex of characters they've decided to make up.
The actor who said, "The generation that comes after us now, THIS will be their memory of Tolkien," could not be more wrong. First, RoP isn't going to last for more than two seasons at the most. The second, and most important reason is that we will make sure the next generation grows up reading the books and watching the PJ films. For all of their faults (and yes, there are a fair number), at least PJ, the actors, and all of the crew truly love and respect Tolkien, his work, and the Middle-Earth HE created, and it shows through quite clearly.
Couldnt agree more!
And actually Peter Jackson’s trilogy praise the female with Eowin killing the king of Nazgûl, with Arwin riding faster than a man to save Frodo from the Nazgûl’s and his wound from the blade , she is a woman but she was still strong and with Galadriels presence and mystic power, she was respected by her fellow elves . This series reflects EXACTLY the woke culture of today. You can empower women by actually appreciating their more delicate but elegant nature. Eowin was also a fighter but she was not arrogant or narcissistic about it. She did not need to do any back flip to kill the enemy. Women’s strength lies in their femininity and their humble nature. All these arrogant , feminist, woke women characters are an embarrassment for us , and something I would avoid becoming.
I had to watch a YT video of the ride of the rohirrim to cheer myself back up after this RoP dump
It’s mainly that Peter Jackson and his team ( which is led by two women- Philippa, Boyens and Fran Walsh) were story tellers. The people at Amazon are story sellers. They made business decisions, not creative ones.
Even the bad decisions Jackson made were out of love. Having Radagast or stopping things for Balin to give exposition dumps was out of his love for the Lore and desire to include as much of it as possible in his adaptation.
Having too much screen time for the master and Alfrid because he liked the actors.
A few aspects like the friendships. In RoP, the ham fisted dialogue has to remind us that characters are friends. There’s the one scene with the table for Durin and Elrond, but it’s only decent compared to the rest of the show and doesn’t compare to the friendships in any of Peter Jackson’s movies.
Bilbo and Thorin’s friendship built from Thorin resenting Bilbo’s presence on the quest, but still being protective of him despite his initial words to Gandalf about not being responsible for him (he doesn’t let the trolls kill Bilbo and saves him on the cliff) to really valuing Bilbo when he sees his resourcefulness and willing heart
We see Sam refuse to leave Frodo and Frodo being grateful to Sam.
We see Pippin save Faramir.
We see Legolas stand up for Gimli and their friendly competition. There are tons of examples where we see close friendships in Peter Jackson movie.
On RoP. Poppy and Nori have to say they’re friends. Isildur and his generic friends have to say they’ve been friends for a long time. Galadriel and Elrond have to say they’re friends.
Monologues and emotional moments are also where Jackson succeeds and RoP falls.
I have never really understood the "represent me" argument and it just feels narcissistic.
I grew up watching most of the classic Kung Fu movies and not once did i reflect over that everyone in the movies were Chinese (or at least Asian).
Exactly!
It is VERY narcissistic! Narcissism is the defining characteristic of the Woke Joke that infects our society and this generation today.
I thank god that the movies were made in the start 2000's.
I thank all the actors for moving to New Zealand.
I thank the production crew for their incredibly hard work.
I thank New Line Cinema for allowing Peter Jackson to make these incredible movies with heart and dignity.
Thank you, thank you, THANK YOU!
Honestly Peter Jackson was not having easy time. During pre production stage studio was pushing to do certain things in movies. For example a more explicit love triangle between Aragorn, Arwen and Eowin. Kill some of the main characters. Peter Jackson at some point had enough and said that he wants to quit and they can find director who will make this production for them. After that they back down a little.
I expected Tolkien's story. I didn't expect a political statement. They had a Tolkien scholar on staff and got rid of him. I didn't care for the entire thing. It was a complete letdown.
Its about Tolkien's story, stop making in ALL ABOUT YOU!!!
I know right.. they are so full of themselves
@@LudvigW because they are black
I just finished watching the extended editions (all 3) for like the 6th time. You can absolutely tell the passion and care given from everybody on screen when putting together the movies. I loved it.
Amazon failed because it was very obvious that nobody involved could be bothered to read or understand the book or even properly watch the films that it spawned.
The answer is the first words of Jackson at video
100% 🙏
This idea that I as a so-called person of color need to see people with my skin color in a tv show or in a movie to feel "represented" and like I can relate to the characters, is in my opinion one of the more idiotic, and frankly, racist ways of thinking that we see in modern pop culture.
Weren't we trying to get away from thinking that skin color meant anything? Didn't we agree that it's what's on the inside that counts?
Why would I want to see my favourite characters change ethnicity or gender just because someone thinks it makes their show look better? Frankly I find it both embarrassing and infuriating that the color of my skin is being used to try to sell me a tv show.
As long as the characters are well written, feel human and genuine, does things that I like and find interesting, and that make an impression on me or inspire me, I can look up to them, and feel they are written for me. If so, it doesn't matter if they are Aragorn, Galadriel, Gandalf, Sarumann, Neo, Trinity, Morpheus, Agent Smith, Blade, Luke Skywalker, Boba Fett, Mace Windu, Darth Vader, Ahsoka Tano, Beatrix Kiddo, Djangoo, Hans Landa, Ellen Ripley, Jon Snow, Brienne of Tarth, John Wick, Tony Stark, Bruce Wayne, The Joker, Kal-El, Kit Walker, Neytiri, Leeloo, Lafayette Reynolds, Sarah Connor or Tyler Durden.
I relate to the characters by their actions, thoughts, words and virtues, not by the color of their skin..
Very well said🙏
I am glad that you're seeing it the way you do. Because of course Tolkien's stories are centred in European countries, but in the end even that doesn't matter, because as you said those stories are from human to human no matter the outside. Thank you for your insights.
Imagine LOTR was produced in 2020s instead of in early 2000s, there might be all sorts of representations in those 9 members of the fellowship. White, asian, black, latin, lgbtq, etc. We might even have seen a transgendered asian Aragorn🤔😅
this reminds me of Captain Planet somehow with the elemental rings and they summon super queer Gandalf
Why would you even try so hard to want to be represented in a story that does not even revolve around you?
I know right 😔
This whole thing is just a political message, not an entertaining show based on someone’s book. And the “Lord of the Rings” title is the bait.
Indeed!
@@anni.68 Have you paid any attention to this video? Particularly what the actors and actresses had to say while promoting a fantasy show?
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Everyone else already mentioned RoP using diversity as a replacement for writing interesting characters, but I want to point out that last scene with PJ and Elijah Wood. RoP lacked vision and direction: two things Jackson (and most of his crew for that matter) had in spades. But the last scene in the video had another, even simpler ingredient to the success of the LotR trilogy: A love and respect for not just Tolkien’s works, but a camaraderie, respect, and love for each other.
I don’t care if it sounds cheesy, but I wouldn’t describe it any other way. The main stars still meet up with each other *20+ years* later because of their time working together. The experience of being a part of the trilogy made *brotherhoods* out of people, and made bonds more enduring than the One Ring itself.
The RoP clips shown here feel so visually quiet and sanitized, creating the very distinct soulless corporate feeling. The film clips shown, however, feel far more active and energized, as well as dirty and informal; I mean those last two remarks in a positive and endearing way, almost like all terms of cleanliness and safe mannerisms were pushed aside to reveal only the heart and soul that lies within the trilogy’s creation.
Thank you so much for making this video. I can't thank you enough. Because I lacked the understanding of why Rings of Power felt so wrong. I had some clues as far as the complete change of story and absence of places, plots that I understood the importance of in the books.
I understand now. White people don't get to insert ourselves into the other group's story and overwrite it to get our voice in. We are equal, not superior. Black Panther could've had an all-black cast. I would have loved it because I love representation. I came from a suburban, white Christian home with no "minority" friends, and I hate that term, btw. I loved getting to see daily Muslim life in Ms. Marvel... I can't explain how much I loved it. I was so excited when my cousin came out as gay, because it was a spark of something different in my family, a bit of self-honesty on her part shining through. My wife is bisexual and when she told me, it had no effect on her commitment to me and my trust in her. I love you guys and I want to know you. I'm listening to the conversation and I don't claim to understand fully. But I'm trying. More than anyone else in my family seems to be.
It's just that I know how I feel about art. I don't get to take a Van Gogh and paint lavender blossoms among his sunflowers because I want to see flowers represented more diversely. I can paint something new, (if I could paint) and draw inspiration from his style, but I can't arrogantly say Van Gogh would give me a thumbs up and an "F-yeah!" I don't get to put words in his mouth. I have to accept him for who he was and what he chose to paint. I don't have to like it. But I don't get to whitewash or otherwise color over his identity and say, "now it's better." That's horrible. We want the same thing. It's just we disagree on how to get there. I didn't realize I disagreed on that until now but it helps me understand my own feelings about this. It is an important conversation. I love representation. But what I don't like is, say, a white director imprinting his own selfish views onto Black Panther, which is thank God not what happened! And if we are equal, and I hold that we are and all need to be appreciated and loved, we don't get to twist each other's art and history in a revisionist way!
"They (prequels) can make you love the things you already love even more"
I mean... she is not wrong
😅
The Rings of Power was complete garbage to Peter Jackson version and many agreed to this.
I think some of the young actors, in the Rings of Power, need to read The Lord of The Rings. Some of their comments, show that they are really clueless, about it.
Rings of Power, failed because it was a mess. Amazon spent the money, in the wrong places.
I just finished watching the extended editions (all 3) for like the 6th time. You can absolutely tell the passion and care given from everybody on screen when putting together the movies. I loved it.
Never gets old and makes the movies so rewatchable
I am a black man and let me say this clearly, ROP and their messages of inclusion sucks. Make a damn good movie already. This has to be one of the most unforgettable TV series ever....
Hey racists, why can’t you identify with white characters?
Im white guy and yet can totally identify with Bruce Lee, Blade, hell the ewoks are relatable as living beings!
Ever heard of this novel human trait we call EMPATHY? 🤷🏻
he wasnt the first elf of colour, there were coloured elfs in shannara chronicles!
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“There are gonna be female heroes in this evocation of the story.” This right here is proof that the people behind RoP obviously DID NOT read the books NOR DID they pay attention to the films. Heck! Even in the behind the scenes of The Hobbit movies Peter Jackson, Philipa Boyens, and everyone else working in the movies said: “People always say there are no female characters in Tolkien’s stories. But of course, you have the Lady Galadriel…who is the most powerful of them all in many ways. And he [Tolkien] was never averse to female characters fighting. Look at the Lady Eowyn in Lord Of the Rings. She was a warrior princess.” I personally think that the people working on RoP are just jumping on the bandwagon of “we need more female representation” as if we didn’t have enough of that already. I mean, even Disney’s Aladdin remake messed it up by centering the whole film on Jasmine, when the title of the movie WAS STILL Aladdin, so who’s supposed to be the main character? Not Jasmine. I guess this is why I do like the character of Tauriel in The Hobbit but not the female characters from works such as RoP, Barbie, Aladdin’s remake, etc. Because even though Tauriel was a female character that wasn’t part of Tolkien’s work, her purpose was not the typical “female empowerment and representation” move. Back to the behind the scenes from The Hobbit, Philipa Boyens said: “We didn’t just wanna create her [Tauriel] for the sake of creating a female character. She needed to have a purpose in the storytelling.” Peter Jackson didn’t add the character of Tauriel as an attempt to represent women to please the so called “feminists”, he added her so that she would actually form part of the story by representing the Silvan Elves and how were they different from the High Elves. Simple as that, there was not a political ulterior motive hidden, Tauriel was there as a representation of one of Tolkien’s characters, not as a representation of today’s society.
And before anyone claims that I’m being an unreasonable macho that doesn’t appreciate women, just a bit of an FYI, I’m a woman.
READ THE BLOODY BOOKS!
That would be a start 🙏
I agree 👍
Uhhhh, if she really wanted to be the first dwarf woman...she should have had a beard and nearly a man's voice. THEY (dwarves in middle earth) are mostly mistaken for a dwarf man.
-Gimli : "It's true you don't see many Dwarf-women. And in fact, they are so alike in voice and appearance, that they are often mistaken for Dwarf-men."
That’s it you people have stood in my way long enough, I’m rewatching the trilogy back to back again!
I think main argument is they didn't do anything right. If they had presented it reasonably, I think people would've liked it.
Definitely!
Sad part is that it need to be explained
I know right 😅
I hope they all realize that their hopes didn't fly and fanning their own flames is just sad to watch. How dare they take gold and tarnish it down. I wish it were left out of storytelling. Here I thought if you give them an inch they'll work slowly from there....but....look at them go 😮
The Rings of Power: a very expensive example of how the fumble the bag in every possible way and unilaterally piss off your target audience by taking a nuclear size dump on the source material
This forceful imposition of representation of everyone into everything is just plain ridiculous..Stop ruining authenticity of things, people, cultures and stories… This is coming from brown person…
GO WOKE, GO BROKE! JUST KICK ME OUT! 😆 🤣 😆 🤣 dammit! 😆 But that's still the reason for the flop of ROP vs LOTR which is a masterpiece! Respect for the lore and the universe vs. woke ideological propaganda that sullies the work of a great writer. No need to pick up from noon to 2pm!
😜
You are my hero man.
I love Arwen so much bros.
I find it amusing that when some of these people are going on and on and on about being the first this or that being represented... that the people sitting next to them have body language and expressions that are just screaming "will you please just shut up, this isn't about you"
This. I know ow Christopjer Tolkien wasn't a fan of Jsckson's movies since they centered .ore on the battles even with their importance to the books and would have over to see the time with the Ents as his father would have so they had equal time. And it is ways picking and choosing what to put in and what to keep out. Putting some of your own spin to things. But he did it for his love of the books and because he had also loved the old movies. Though he did. It get the approval.from Christopjer Tolkien he meant to pay tribute to JRR Tolkien in the best way he could.
We know that they wouldn't allow him the same time he ale t on LOTR with t
The Hobbit, or it would have been more of a hit. With that one New Line Cinema did it for a money grab. I loved LOTR, liked The Hobbit but did not love it.
Amazon has ways been more of the money grabbing type. They didn't do it because they love Tolkien, they did it for money. So they took what they could get with the appendices. You can tell the actors are great. It isn't even that there might not be elves and dwarves of color, there very well could have been. As someone who said they are a person of color and the actor's excuses about representstion are poor excuses, that's not why they watch movies or shows, but for the good script amd acting and much more, I agree with this.
Tolkien made his heroines very clear in his stories the entire time. So the whole no damsels in distress thing makes me scratch my head, we know who the heroines are and always have we also know how they led and commanded.
My brothers and I watched it as if it was a fanfiction or a other fantasy to get through it, but we wanted to finish it for the benefit of the doubt. But the way my brothers put it is it was horrible and the Harfoots are "part of it", referring to David S. Pumpkins and his little background dancers. We're all well read in Tolkien so we were appaled by ROP. We're not Stephen Colbert level, but we're pretty good with the lore. It would be cool to get Stephen Colbert's take on it as he knows the lore extremely well.
And it has nothing to do with Tolkien, just a revisionist diatribe. Absolutely ruined it. Look forward to a more diverse remake of The Color Purple. And the elves, Tolkien's fairest folk, are just a bunch of pretty average looking people with pointy ears.
PJ and his crew respected the source material....Amazon didn't even care enough about their production to even get real fans to take about the series....They got Harry potter fans and youtube actors to pretend to be "superfans' to promote the series which failed miserably with a good portion of the audience not even watching past the first two episodes.
I agree with you on the UA-cam actors, but come on, Harry Potter fans? I’m a proud Potterhead who also happens to LOVE The Lord of the Rings and there would be no love lost on my part if the Rings of Power show got cancelled. I don’t understand why people have this weird idea that if you don’t like Lord of the Rings then you’re a Harry Potter fan and viceversa. Can’t people like BOTH?
LOTR is mythological. These people are obsessed with materialism. the should focus on the things that bind us together, the collective unconscious.
GET EM' LUDD!
Standing strung!!
Because Amazon invented their entire story and it wasn't even close to Tolkien. It was modern politics with the surface appearance of bad fantasy. The elves didn't look or act like elves, the Hobbits were filthy hobos that acted like Irish immigrants, and the storyline was the stupidest thing I've seen on TV.
The female dwarves didn’t even have BEARDS!
Just play Lego The Hobbit. End of story.
these rings of power actors are so disgusting xD why do you think u have a right to be represented in tolkiens story? its his story not yours, who are you to change it?
I know right..
Not gonna lie the all just come across as massively narcissistic and selfish people who just want to promote themselves ME ME ME
Like man’s said he loved the film as a kid (highly doubt it) but was offended there were no black elves in it….like what? What child watches LOTR and thinks needs more black people
And they picked the elves a of all the races to just shoehorn it in despite copious amounts of context highlighting how they are fair of skin etc.
Go nuts make your own fantasy franchise but why crap on and butcher something else because you want to change something completely to revolve around you.
READ AND RESEARCH THE DAMN SOURCE MATERIAL
*Same applies to the Witcher series amongst others that they keep butchering
Isn't this cultural appropriation?
There are no.black elves and.dwarfs
These people destroys the magic of folklores
Why dont they make thwir own black folklore
How did Rings of Power fail exactly?
It 100% deviated from the source material. Rather than trying to tell a good story that expanded on the lore created by Tolkien, Rings of Power made it all about their personal feelings and thoughts about today’s society.
There are dark ones in all races of Middle-earth 👍 now rainbow elves🤡 we need dwarves too 🏳️🌈 Amazon forward to golden🎉 raspberries with a budget of 2 billion
Rings of power is garbage
For me, THE RINGS OF POWER did not fail at all! It's an adaptation and interpretation based on limited rights to a vast Legendarium, but I feel the makers venerate and honor Tolkien. I know it's trendy to dish the show, but I was pleased! I don't like watching violence much anyway. Jackson's films are great, but terribly violent in places. I appreciate that there was only one major battle in THE RINGS OF POWER. I fear that for the next season hey may try to speed things up and have more battlers. Oh well… I respectfully diagreee with those who desp[ise the Amazon show. I hope there is room for various opinions here! - BPG
How do you claim to honor the work of the author and complain about violence in the representation.
You just admitted you don’t actually have a clue as to what the author actually wrote.
Maybe stick to Care Bears and My Little Pony.
@@anni.68 whether or not someone likes or approves of the movies is completely irrelevant to someone else selfishly injecting their own politics into a separate depiction.
What’s your point ? Someone else did it, so you get to do it too ? How childish.
Now if only we could ask Christopher Tolkien how he feels about the righteous claims made by some of the actors in this video. I wonder how he would have reacted, but isn’t it handy for you that we cannot fully examine your reference. It makes for very convenient cherry picking.
wtf they are not honouring tolkins work, how can u even claim that? have u even read lord of the rings?
@@MrSteeJans I've been reading Tolkien for over 60 years, and have read virtually every published word of his work. Interesting how you seem to feel that insulting someone while knowing nothing about them, or the reasons for their opinion, is a way to dialogue… it's not even useful way to comment!
@@MrSteeJans Part of what Tolkien did was create intriguing politics within his own imagined world. Personally, I don't care about the politics of any adaptors of Tolkien, unless that politics offends me morally. I accept that the kind of world Tolkien created includes wars and violence… this does not mean I have to like wars and violence. Also, that is extremely far from all that Tolkien is about… with his vast concerns of world-building, time, and how hipsters emerges from legend and legend emerges from myth. - BPG
Peter Jackson failed with The Hobbit .
Educate yourself before making stupid commentaries, then come back so we can have a proper discussion.
Thank you Sauron!
It wasn't his fault, the studio forced him to make 3 movies and rushed it.
I personally enjoyed The Hobbit trilogy.
что закончилась слава лгбт?