I had a house built in 1998 with CVPC and had no less than three different leaks. That stuff gets very brittle over time. Many local plumbers will not install CVPC. Kind of surprised to see that as the solution in this video.
Lets not forget other places this was used. The old mobile home I just purchased had some plumbing issues when I got it. Found this stuff mixed with cpvc in the guest bathroom. Thank God for shark bite connectors and a little previous experience. Look forward to pexing the whole house once I get it fully paid off.
I've lived in three houses where the copper wore through from sediment abrasion and started leaking. I switched two out for PEX and still need to do another. The copper was probably 40 years old though.
I do remodel on old trailers and manufactured homes and my biggest plumbing problems come from these two products. Cpvc becomes brittle from age and breaks easily from just a little freeze. Polybutylene randomly springs leaks in the piping. If you run too hot of water through it becomes very soft and then separates at the fittings. These are the last two products I would want in my home, because there is no repairing when they fail, only replacing.
I’m doing a demo of an addition to my house.. there’s a basement foundation that will be filled in once it’s been demolished… however I’m not sure what to do with the service water lines and wastewater drain pipes… do i need to do anything particular with them?!? Or can i just burry them?
I was going to say something about using CPVC instead of PEX but it looks like that has been covered pretty well. As a plumber I have replaced polybutylene in a couple of houses and used PEX. I have also replaced CPVC with PEX. The problem with any of these plastics is UV rays. If you leave a stick or roll of any of these materials out in the sun either at the supply warehouse or on site it tends to get brittle which may not show up for years. The same thing applies for PEX to a lesser degree. Copper also has a downside as it conducts and allows minerals to stick to the walls of the pipe. With all that being said if it was my house I would use PEX with brass fittings.
(2035) "Hi, I'm Richard Trethewey Jr. On today's episode of Ask This Old House we're visiting a homeowner that's having his CPVC piping replaced throughout his whole house. Now, I noticed it looks like there were previous cuts in the drywall..."
In europe we do PPR piping for mains. Basically, a weldable plastic pipe, with guarantee for 50 years. Thick walls, ductile yet very ridgit and strong pipe, that can be used in mains or heating, indoors or outdoors, underground or in air, and can freeze and will not split. It is resistant to sun damage, is lab grade plastic, can resist any base or acid, and is joined with no glue or compression rings. You take a special iron, that heats and melts both the hub of the fitting and the end of the pipe and you push them together, fusing them together and making a permanent connection, with absolutely no chance of leakage. That is what i'm spending my money on all day long. O'm an apprentice plumber, and i have already installed many, many systems with PPR pipe. I ran my whole yard watering system with PPR and it is fed by a well pump, and after 4 years it still holds up like new. I installed it in my heating system, and it works great, basically a perfect pipe. I don't know why USA has not yet started uring that pipe..??
They know these replacement pipes are crap and that they're going to be needing replacement in the future and that's why they use them to give the industry more money and plumbers!
@TerraTN I mean sure it's not indestructible but do you put copper in that list as well? I'm no expert on plumbing and up to this point have just been replacing the cpvc when it needs it, but I've been thinking about copper and it's hard to find objective analysis.
@TerraTN The holes in copper actually come from scratching made my small rocks wizzing through your pipes. Then add some acidity to your water and it rusts green.
As a HVAC tech I get in a lot of older homes crawls. Can’t tell you how many times I’ve crawled back out to inform the owner they have leaks in their plumbing systems. I attribute a lot of them to the crimp rings and unsupported piping of poor workmanship of tradesmen knowing that out of sight is out of mind. Pex or Copper for me.
All the plastic garbage will fail quickly, pipes, decking, baseboards, siding, flooring, etc. It's only good for long enough to let the developers unload the house. If you want it to last, use what's worked forever - wood, copper, and stone.
I'm replacing my polybutylene pipes right now. They have been in my house for 38 years and are now only getting small droplets at the fittings when wiggled. Guess I got lucky they didnt burst yet.
This job looks well done, the pipes do not look as old as what we have encountered during our project in our 110 years old (flip) house, old rusty pipelines leaking here and there( pissing); like in a scary movie in that old scary unfinished basement. Copper is so expensive, we ended up with plastic.
I'm replacing plastic that gets brittle and fails over time with plastic that gets brittle and fails over time... What? PEX is much more reliable than CPVC. Is this job security for his family? His son's business tagline will be, "Replace your CPVC Now!"
He is using the gold standard in cpvc piping-“flow guard gold” it’s the best stuff around and does not get “brittle” like pvc-it’s a different material make-up.
Ya. This is such a bad advice from this old house. In 2018 it is shameful to use this product. I guess he wants to make sure his sons can replace this garbage.
I have a 1998 house with CPVC and its become super brittle and there's like a 50-50 chance that it shatters if you try to cut it. If you leave it alone it's mostly okay, but I had one joint start leaking this past year, luckily it was in the basement but I want to get rid of this place before something worse happens.
My mom’s house had the Polybutylene in it. That stuff is a nightmare. 🤦🏻♂️ It was more trouble to keep trying to fix the cracks, leaks, fittings, etc. We ended up replacing it all with CPVC.
I used to repipe pb with copper and cpvc. Now it's too costly to use copper and cpvc has a terrible taste issue that lasts a long time. Plus the cpvc gets brittle and will crack. I now use Uponor ProPEX Expander Fittings with the Milwaukee expander tool and never looked back.
I'm not a plumber but I do a lot of plumbing for work, everything from remodels and repairs to new construction. If I were doing my own home it would only be with type L copper, though I wouldn't lose any sleep if pex was used. Pex has its benefits. I can understand using cpvc if money was an issue or already had a solid plan to move in the next few years while it is probably still under warranty or before it likely becomes brittle and starts having issues, but I was taught to do things correctly and do them yourself. Don't know how? Figure it out. Better to teach yourself to do it correctly rather than pay someone a lot to do it incorrectly.
Parents have replaced pipes twice in 40 years. Originally copper through the slab but ground movement broke it in the early 80's. Polybutylene starting splitting replaced three years ago, now straight runs of PEX run through the attic.
@@Cdshakes I hope not for Chris Wells' parent's sake. Of course, if it does happen, that would mean they've lived a long (hopefully fortuitous) life so there's that.
I was very hesitant to use PEX.. but for the last twelve years I've used it because of the cold weather in the San Bernardino Mts. Haven't had a leak or needed to replace ANY yet! used Copper since the early 80s. Had a few leaks if the copper wasn't insulated. Pex really work's the best. It expands and retracts on hot and cold weather...just never use "Shark bites". ,👍
Hi, so do you recommend the viega system or empanour? which is more reliable. I have a 2 story, 3 bathroom house. It currently has PB with a viaga manifold from '94. Can you recommend contractors in the phoenix/scottsdale az area?
It's not just Polybutylene. I currently have an approved claim with Uponor to have all the hot water PEX in my home replaced due to pinhole leaks and brittle tubing. If it were up to me, there would be no PEX in my entire home. Copper is king!
A class action Lawsuit Matzdorf et al. v. Uponor, Inc. et al. FILED: JULY 29, 2021 § 1:21-CV-02057 alleges blue- and red-colored cross-linked polyethylene tubing (PEX) made by Uponor is defective and prone to premature degradation, deterioration and failure.
@@kalijasin My issue pre-dated that suit. Also, mine was not blue or red -- it was the natural (white) color. In the end, Uponor paid to have all the 3/4" hot water PEX replaced in my home, as well as all the related drywall and paint work. In my case, I did not need a lawsuit because it was still within the 25-year warranty. The bigger problem is that it takes so long for degradation problems like this to appear -- I wonder how much longer before PEX is simply outlawed altogether. We need to simply go back to copper.
@@swp466 PEX isn't getting outlawed. Contractors LOVE it. Lets them cut corners like crazy and if it fails, more work for them. A number of friends and family have built homes around the country in the last 5 years and very few of them could even find a contractor that would agree to do copper piping instead of PEX even for an increased price.
I had this pipes in the houses I was renting in Clifton, VA. They always leaked. The company that made these pipes went out of business with lawsuits against them. I just bought my 1950 house and luckily it has copper pipes
Copper where there's little to no chance of freezing, PEX everywhere else. I'm really thinking of a whole house expansion tank to eliminate water hammer and any chance of PEX rubbing bare from movement.
Bet you if the people who built that house put copper in the beginning of it being built. They wouldn't be ripping it out and we wouldn't have this conversation. jimmy warren, Michigan
that is the best crawlspace i've ever seen. i live in NC and my crawlspace makes me feel like i'm busting out of shawshank prison... i'm just messing with them b/c i know they have have a filmable crawlspace but I wouldn't have said anything if Richard wasn't complaining about that "crawlspace" :-p
I used cpvc 20 years ago when I did the whole house remodel but it has a problem if it freezes. So am replacing all of it with pex. And I am in the Pacific Northwest.
E. Agrisea it don't matter what pipe you use copper, galvanized, pex, PVC they ALL will rupture if froze if you heat your house you won't have a problem
Uponor is paying to replace all their faulty hot water PEX in my home because it got brittle and began experiencing pinhole leaks. It's no good on the hot side. Google hot water PEX pinhole leaks -- there's tons of complaints. If it were up to me, I'd change all of the PEX out with copper, but since they're paying for it, I'm stuck putting PEX back in. Oh well -- the PEX lasted 17 years -- I doubt I'll still own this home in another 17 years, so it'll be someone else's problem when it fails again.
Great. Swap polybutene for cpvc. A nice way to create more work for the future when that goes wrong too. If I was spending the money, get it done properly in copper or PEX!!!
This was better than what came before it too :) PEX will eventually have some issues, I guarentee it. Just use metal. Contaminating water supply with plastics is so idiotic.
We have a pool house with a toilet and sink plumbed with cpvc. After my dad passed away it was left unfinished and unused for 15 years. I finally got the knowledge to finish it, and when i hooked up the water supply and went to turn it on the cpvc burst at a few joints, and the pipe split. I replaced it with copper since it was such a small area, and it works fine now.
As others have said, definitely should have used Pex. I would have tried to talk the homeowners into replacing the shower valves instead of going through all of that trouble on the old ones while they were exposed.
ApexPlumb & Just how many use PEX properly??? It was engineered and meant for a manifold. 1 length of pipe from said item to the manifold( most likely in the garage)...... Yet PEX for years has been used juat like cpvc......with 50k turns and fittings everywhere......s.m.m.f.h. 1 fitting at the water closet for example on one end & that 1 long length of PEX pipe hits the Manifold where all the other item ends hit the same manifold - PERIOD. 1 hot & 1 cold fitting at the Kitchen sink for example......& both run too the same manifold....NOTHING INBETWEE. This way ""if"" there ever was a leak? Its onlt gonna be in one of two places.....either 1 end or the other......Simple. I walked into Lennar Homes, K.B. Homes, Custom Homes by lical only builders......it doesnt matter its all Fkd. Just one small portion of the garage i walked past in this particular Lennar Home, had 67 transitions......67 fittings within 12 ft!!!!! Fkg sickning. I'd agree wirh Pex or Copper dependent upon region, but use it properly ppl.
for sure that should've been done shower valve and spigots , pex would be the best thing to use in this particular house either Viega, Uponor or even Apollo.
Btw pex is petroleum based. It’s plastic also. Garbage pipe designed so non plumbers can run garden hoses through houses in no time. Anyone can assemble pex.
I would’ve personally chosen PEX over CPVC, BUT I will say that in my experience CPVC has a great track record. My childhood home was constructed using only CPVC and to this day there have been zero leaks. My dad put them in himself, and while he is very competent, he is no professional.
Yes, it's a similar crimp technology, but the materials are different. The pex pipe and fittings shouldn't break down in the same way that polybutylene and acetal did.
Is it just glueing or is there an actual reaction that welds the pvc together? In Germany they are moving towards Stainless Steel Pipes with pressed fittings. I also have seen some PVC pipes with aluminum cores, also with pressed fittings.
Press fittings are bad, each one has an oring in it that can fail. If I were using stainless I would want it threaded or welded. But I dont get why you would choose stainless steel over copper, with copper you can just solder the joints and dont need threading.
Being a Yankee from up north, I say good luck to all these people down south if they ever experience a prolonged power outage during a sub-freezing temperatures.
I’m doing a demo of an addition to my house.. there’s a basement foundation that will be filled in once it’s been demolished… however I’m not sure what to do with the service water lines and wastewater drain pipes… do i need to do anything particular with them?!? Or can i just hurry them?
I have had polybutylene pipes ( Qest) for some 30+ years in my house, no troubles except one incident (possible amateur installation error). I am on a 50psig max well with pvc piping service and brass service valves on the community system. all but one brass service valve (some 15 or so) has failed due to corrosion in 47 years of service. The buried pvc piping seems in good order. Could pvc failures have arisen from something (chlorinated or other) that's in the water? There no additives in my well water.
Blade 666 CPVC will definitely not last a lifetime you'll get maybe 15 years that's a stretch the hot water side usually gets so brittle and shatters around 10 years. sometimes the joints even start to fail
So how long before all that PEX plastic tubing starts leaking? As for copper versus other forms of plastic based pipe, I wonder if the PH and mineral content of the water flowing through the pipes has something to do with them wearing out, sooner, or later. Piping materials than work in one region of the country might fail prematurely in another simply based on the content of the water flowing through them.
Ph,and the most important thing people don't know is changing or removing your shower restrictor and other things increases velocity through the pipes creating problems.
i have worked on few house n find out more about cpvc cant handle cold below 30f if get freezed will brake easily and ended up having to replace it aging n aging n i tell them switch over to pex and never have issues pass 20 years *been working on plumber for 19 years" and knowing cpvc is nightmare for cold weather and pex outlasted both of them only grey water line is bad build quality back in 70s to 2000s they all switch to cpvc later switch to pex never seen issues with pex they not same is other things
My RV is from 1989 and it has that polybutylene piping in it! It was leaking when we got the RV years ago! I have been replacing it with color coded pex so it is easy for future owners of the rv to know which valves to shut off when camping and me as well if something goes wrong!
Can't tell you how many times I've seen them glue the snot out of supply pipes causing poor water flow. And trying to find the restriction is incredibly difficult!
This Old House, is polybutylene a recyclable material? If so, where and how is that done and does This Old House recycle? I'm not a builder, but we're trying to recycle everything we can. Thanks in advance for your answers. :o) Donna B.
That local plumber has a really soothing voice.
Like Sam Elliot
Guy's got heck of a business plan here, 10 years later he just need to change that sign on the truck to say "Replace your CPVC Plumbing."
I've had my cpvc for 20 yrs. and still holding up.
Cpvc in my parents home for about 35 yrs, and still going strong. Cpvc is not going anywhere, anytime soon.
lol
Cpvc is totally fine this comment is dumb
We had two rent houses that had cpvc piping that leaked and developed a crack down the seam. Replaced them all with Plex tubing.
I had a house built in 1998 with CVPC and had no less than three different leaks. That stuff gets very brittle over time. Many local plumbers will not install CVPC. Kind of surprised to see that as the solution in this video.
It’s standard in their area, the weather is different everywhere bud
@@DTSupstateNY it has nothing to do with the weather. It brittles over time no matter where you are.
@@SteelheadTed does well water damage polybutylene pipe
Yeah, I was surprised they weren’t replacing it with Pex
Might as well install the drywall with Velcro to make the cpvc replacement easier.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Exactly.. Amazing what people will do to save a few bucks.
Lets not forget other places this was used. The old mobile home I just purchased had some plumbing issues when I got it. Found this stuff mixed with cpvc in the guest bathroom. Thank God for shark bite connectors and a little previous experience. Look forward to pexing the whole house once I get it fully paid off.
If am spending that much money am using good old copper or pex
I've lived in three houses where the copper wore through from sediment abrasion and started leaking. I switched two out for PEX and still need to do another. The copper was probably 40 years old though.
No, I work for dollars and sometimes beer.
Did they mention cost? I didn't catch that!
@@tenthdimension9836 They didn't he's assuming but probably for good reason.
CPVC is garbage compare to PEX.
I do remodel on old trailers and manufactured homes and my biggest plumbing problems come from these two products.
Cpvc becomes brittle from age and breaks easily from just a little freeze. Polybutylene randomly springs leaks in the piping. If you run too hot of water through it becomes very soft and then separates at the fittings. These are the last two products I would want in my home, because there is no repairing when they fail, only replacing.
I’m doing a demo of an addition to my house.. there’s a basement foundation that will be filled in once it’s been demolished… however I’m not sure what to do with the service water lines and wastewater drain pipes… do i need to do anything particular with them?!? Or can i just burry them?
I was going to say something about using CPVC instead of PEX but it looks like that has been covered pretty well. As a plumber I have replaced polybutylene in a couple of houses and used PEX. I have also replaced CPVC with PEX. The problem with any of these plastics is UV rays. If you leave a stick or roll of any of these materials out in the sun either at the supply warehouse or on site it tends to get brittle which may not show up for years. The same thing applies for PEX to a lesser degree. Copper also has a downside as it conducts and allows minerals to stick to the walls of the pipe. With all that being said if it was my house I would use PEX with brass fittings.
Well you can’t have a perfect plumbing world or else is plumbers will run out of work eventually
Pex Not as great as people claim; NIBCO, UPONOR, ZUM, etc.. are all being sued for defective product.
Can I hire Mr. Falls to tell me bedtime stories? What a voice!
jeff falls sir, your voice and accent it is absolutely sublime.
The next big business will be replacing CPVC piping.
Nobody that’s his brothers business
You need to keep the family business going. That is what he is training his son for
It is a business now because cpvc gets brittle and leaks at the fittings.
(2035) "Hi, I'm Richard Trethewey Jr. On today's episode of Ask This Old House we're visiting a homeowner that's having his CPVC piping replaced throughout his whole house. Now, I noticed it looks like there were previous cuts in the drywall..."
sjn 72 Why didn’t they use pex?
2035 is being generous. I’d say 2029
LMFAO....dude you win.
@@davidcoleman9304 From what I've read, mice and rats can and will chew on pex pipe
@@davidcoleman9304 I can confirm mice eating pex, our travel trailer pex had holes chewed in it from mice
In europe we do PPR piping for mains. Basically, a weldable plastic pipe, with guarantee for 50 years. Thick walls, ductile yet very ridgit and strong pipe, that can be used in mains or heating, indoors or outdoors, underground or in air, and can freeze and will not split. It is resistant to sun damage, is lab grade plastic, can resist any base or acid, and is joined with no glue or compression rings. You take a special iron, that heats and melts both the hub of the fitting and the end of the pipe and you push them together, fusing them together and making a permanent connection, with absolutely no chance of leakage. That is what i'm spending my money on all day long. O'm an apprentice plumber, and i have already installed many, many systems with PPR pipe. I ran my whole yard watering system with PPR and it is fed by a well pump, and after 4 years it still holds up like new. I installed it in my heating system, and it works great, basically a perfect pipe. I don't know why USA has not yet started uring that pipe..??
I found that cpvc pipe after about 10 years seem to get brittle and crack like glass and that’s indoors
They know these replacement pipes are crap and that they're going to be needing replacement in the future and that's why they use them to give the industry more money and plumbers!
@TerraTN
I mean sure it's not indestructible but do you put copper in that list as well? I'm no expert on plumbing and up to this point have just been replacing the cpvc when it needs it, but I've been thinking about copper and it's hard to find objective analysis.
@TerraTN The holes in copper actually come from scratching made my small rocks wizzing through your pipes. Then add some acidity to your water and it rusts green.
I bumped an old CPVC line once in the winter and next thing you know it was raining.
@@KnightofAntiquity Use a filter....
As a HVAC tech I get in a lot of older homes crawls. Can’t tell you how many times I’ve crawled back out to inform the owner they have leaks in their plumbing systems. I attribute a lot of them to the crimp rings and unsupported piping of poor workmanship of tradesmen knowing that out of sight is out of mind. Pex or Copper for me.
I got some 30 year old CPVC at my place. Every time I put a wrench on it it cracks.
All the plastic garbage will fail quickly, pipes, decking, baseboards, siding, flooring, etc. It's only good for long enough to let the developers unload the house. If you want it to last, use what's worked forever - wood, copper, and stone.
I'm replacing my polybutylene pipes right now. They have been in my house for 38 years and are now only getting small droplets at the fittings when wiggled. Guess I got lucky they didnt burst yet.
This job looks well done, the pipes do not look as old as what we have encountered during our project in our 110 years old (flip) house, old rusty pipelines leaking here and there( pissing); like in a scary movie in that old scary unfinished basement. Copper is so expensive, we ended up with plastic.
I'm replacing plastic that gets brittle and fails over time with plastic that gets brittle and fails over time... What? PEX is much more reliable than CPVC. Is this job security for his family? His son's business tagline will be, "Replace your CPVC Now!"
“Don't kill the goose that lays the golden eggS”. He can continue the business for decades. Hahaha.
He is using the gold standard in cpvc piping-“flow guard gold” it’s the best stuff around and does not get “brittle” like pvc-it’s a different material make-up.
EpiDemic117 you’re gonna have fun dumping a lot of unnecessary cash into it
Ya. This is such a bad advice from this old house. In 2018 it is shameful to use this product. I guess he wants to make sure his sons can replace this garbage.
EpiDemic117 copper leaks bad too mostly with well water or bad solder joints
What an effing headache and messs with the walls , would def went pex
Replace one "super newest great material of the future" for the next. Just use metal.
Blah blah.Nothing
Last forever so you ladies can stop now,
I have problems with cpvc as well, after so many years cpvc gets extremely brittle........ so same problems
I have a 1998 house with CPVC and its become super brittle and there's like a 50-50 chance that it shatters if you try to cut it. If you leave it alone it's mostly okay, but I had one joint start leaking this past year, luckily it was in the basement but I want to get rid of this place before something worse happens.
On earlier pvc and cpvc jobs I've seen a primer used but here it looks like just a cement was used. Is this something new?
My mom’s house had the Polybutylene in it. That stuff is a nightmare. 🤦🏻♂️ It was more trouble to keep trying to fix the cracks, leaks, fittings, etc. We ended up replacing it all with CPVC.
I used to repipe pb with copper and cpvc. Now it's too costly to use copper and cpvc has a terrible taste issue that lasts a long time. Plus the cpvc gets brittle and will crack. I now use Uponor ProPEX Expander Fittings with the Milwaukee expander tool and never looked back.
I'm not a plumber but I do a lot of plumbing for work, everything from remodels and repairs to new construction. If I were doing my own home it would only be with type L copper, though I wouldn't lose any sleep if pex was used. Pex has its benefits. I can understand using cpvc if money was an issue or already had a solid plan to move in the next few years while it is probably still under warranty or before it likely becomes brittle and starts having issues, but I was taught to do things correctly and do them yourself. Don't know how? Figure it out. Better to teach yourself to do it correctly rather than pay someone a lot to do it incorrectly.
You had me with copper but lost me with pex. Pex has its benefits in that it adds all the luster of a double wide trailer home to your regular home
I'm plumbing my house in type l copper. Sweated also no bs propress or sharkbite
Pex A with copper stub outs is my personal pick. Aside from running all copper.
He sounds like Bruce from the Family Guy. :) Nice episode as usual TOH
Jamaica Uitzetter I was thinking the same thing!
I was thinking that too.
Oh no. (Bruce voice)
3/4 to the last 2 fixture supplies. Thanks roger
What decent plumber would choose cpvc over pex? I wouldn't allow cpvc in my home. I've seen first hand how it holds up.
@@jacksplumbingvideos7147 We get it. You work for Genova.
@@michaelthearchangel8508 i do not, i really like there products and they have good customer service.
I wish evry crawl space look like that in North Carolina... makes installing hvac equipment a million times better
Cpvc, the garbage pipe, that entire jobs material for a full house tough was around $150.00
Parents have replaced pipes twice in 40 years. Originally copper through the slab but ground movement broke it in the early 80's. Polybutylene starting splitting replaced three years ago, now straight runs of PEX run through the attic.
and perhaps the PEX will have to be replaced in another number of years...? We don't know yet.
@@Cdshakes I hope not for Chris Wells' parent's sake. Of course, if it does happen, that would mean they've lived a long (hopefully fortuitous) life so there's that.
I was very hesitant to use PEX.. but for the last twelve years I've used it because of the cold weather in the San Bernardino Mts. Haven't had a leak or needed to replace ANY yet! used Copper since the early 80s. Had a few leaks if the copper wasn't insulated. Pex really work's the best. It expands and retracts on hot and cold weather...just never use "Shark bites".
,👍
So now when the PEX leaks it ruins the house. Good job
Pex Not as great as people claim; NIBCO, UPONOR, ZUM, etc.. are all being sued for defective product.
Why wasn't the pvc primed before gluing?
I love his accent.
Hi, so do you recommend the viega system or empanour? which is more reliable. I have a 2 story, 3 bathroom house. It currently has PB with a viaga manifold from '94. Can you recommend contractors in the phoenix/scottsdale az area?
I wanted to see them finish the ceilings and walls!
It's not just Polybutylene. I currently have an approved claim with Uponor to have all the hot water PEX in my home replaced due to pinhole leaks and brittle tubing. If it were up to me, there would be no PEX in my entire home. Copper is king!
A class action Lawsuit
Matzdorf et al. v. Uponor, Inc. et al.
FILED: JULY 29, 2021
§ 1:21-CV-02057
alleges blue- and red-colored cross-linked polyethylene tubing (PEX) made by Uponor is defective and prone to premature degradation, deterioration and failure.
@@kalijasin My issue pre-dated that suit. Also, mine was not blue or red -- it was the natural (white) color. In the end, Uponor paid to have all the 3/4" hot water PEX replaced in my home, as well as all the related drywall and paint work. In my case, I did not need a lawsuit because it was still within the 25-year warranty. The bigger problem is that it takes so long for degradation problems like this to appear -- I wonder how much longer before PEX is simply outlawed altogether. We need to simply go back to copper.
@@swp466 PEX isn't getting outlawed. Contractors LOVE it. Lets them cut corners like crazy and if it fails, more work for them. A number of friends and family have built homes around the country in the last 5 years and very few of them could even find a contractor that would agree to do copper piping instead of PEX even for an increased price.
Over 2500 re-pipes in CPVC? Damn, how often does this guy change his phone number?
@Brian Francis People would get pissed due to failures of the CPVC pipe and some might begin to threaten him.
@Brian Francis If you realized what was being implied, you would have had a pretty good laugh like me.
Maybe he doesn’t do cpvc on all houses hopefully. What I don’t understand is pex is a lot easier to run and safer.
I had this pipes in the houses I was renting in Clifton, VA. They always leaked. The company that made these pipes went out of business with lawsuits against them. I just bought my 1950 house and luckily it has copper pipes
I like how soft spoken Jeff Falls is.
The Dude Abides
I would much rather have poly than cpvc in my house. What kinda plumber is running cpvc? I also live in raleigh. Just seems odd..
Why use CPVC instead of PEX? Also have a mobile home with PB and its from 1995 is that pipe ok vs stuff from 70s? Thx
We had a 1991 house trailer that was plumbed with it. So it made it out of the 70's. Leaks galore in that baby.
Those crimp rings sure remind me of PEX.
I could listen to that guy talk all day long
Replacing all those pipes is gonna be an insane amount of work
Copper where there's little to no chance of freezing, PEX everywhere else. I'm really thinking of a whole house expansion tank to eliminate water hammer and any chance of PEX rubbing bare from movement.
It is necessary to replace the polybutylene that runs between the shower valve and the shower head since it is an unpressurized line? Thanks.
I like copper piping. It's the king. If I was going to tear out the walls. That's what I'll replace it with.
jimmy
warren, Michigan
Absolutely agree. Copper and soldering is the way to go
Bet you if the people who built that house put copper in the beginning of it being built. They wouldn't be ripping it out and we wouldn't have this conversation.
jimmy
warren, Michigan
@@jamesw4912 price copper... oh and good luck getting it to bend in tight areas.... the labor and parts would be obscene.
Ted you need to write a song about that. If it becomes a hit you can think of me.
jimmy
From Michigan
@@TedSchoenling they sell soft copper for bending around corners and stuff
out of curiosity how did they match the print wall board behind the shower. did he have a painter artist detail match the print?
Hell NO......THAT WAS ON THE HOMEOWNER TO RE PAINT AND RE PAPER
I thought you had to use a primer before the glue on CPVC.
Pvc requires a primer. Cpvc just needs stinky glue.
Lol. Going back with cpvc is bad enough, but leaving the old faucet too?
that is the best crawlspace i've ever seen. i live in NC and my crawlspace makes me feel like i'm busting out of shawshank prison...
i'm just messing with them b/c i know they have have a filmable crawlspace but I wouldn't have said anything if Richard wasn't complaining about that "crawlspace" :-p
I used cpvc 20 years ago when I did the whole house remodel but it has a problem if it freezes. So am replacing all of it with pex. And I am in the Pacific Northwest.
E. Agrisea it don't matter what pipe you use copper, galvanized, pex, PVC they ALL will rupture if froze if you heat your house you won't have a problem
Conditioned space ok. Attic or Basement seen lots of issue's big temp swings becomes brittle.
Have done loads of these jobs always used uponor pex
What's the price difference with copper?
Uponor is paying to replace all their faulty hot water PEX in my home because it got brittle and began experiencing pinhole leaks. It's no good on the hot side. Google hot water PEX pinhole leaks -- there's tons of complaints. If it were up to me, I'd change all of the PEX out with copper, but since they're paying for it, I'm stuck putting PEX back in. Oh well -- the PEX lasted 17 years -- I doubt I'll still own this home in another 17 years, so it'll be someone else's problem when it fails again.
I'd rather carry buckets of water to my bath than spend one dime on CPVC plumbing.
@Trey-Vincent I would never put it in a wall/floor. It can be very brittle.
I don't understand it either it seems like a similarly fragile material.
@@zteaxon7787 Well when you run out of houses with polybutylene you simply change the sign on your truck. CPVC replacement.
Agree 100 percent and it’s more expensive then pex
@@jesseschoenfelder6455 double check the price, CPVC is a lot cheaper than Pex. Pex is just a bit less expensive than copper.
Great. Swap polybutene for cpvc. A nice way to create more work for the future when that goes wrong too. If I was spending the money, get it done properly in copper or PEX!!!
What made them choose CPVC? Isn't PEX better?
Pex is way better and the fact that they are using flowguard pipe shows how moronic these people our. Flowguard is just as bad as poly
@J mice and rats will still chew poly. I've made the repairs
This was better than what came before it too :) PEX will eventually have some issues, I guarentee it. Just use metal. Contaminating water supply with plastics is so idiotic.
Jon M Metal pipes can contaminate the water too. All pipes will fail, EVENTUALLY.
it may be cheaper! but not much though it would be only few 100 bucks I would've done with pex with new shower valves and new spigots
Aren't you suppose to prime CPVC?
Only if you don't use the 2 in 1 yellow Oatey solvent that they did cuts work in half with the one step. But yes you should if you use a 2 step glue
How are they going to match that textured (popcorn ?) ceiling ?
Probably scrape it all off.
I absolutely love this guys southern accent....
We have a pool house with a toilet and sink plumbed with cpvc. After my dad passed away it was left unfinished and unused for 15 years. I finally got the knowledge to finish it, and when i hooked up the water supply and went to turn it on the cpvc burst at a few joints, and the pipe split.
I replaced it with copper since it was such a small area, and it works fine now.
As others have said, definitely should have used Pex. I would have tried to talk the homeowners into replacing the shower valves instead of going through all of that trouble on the old ones while they were exposed.
ApexPlumb & Just how many use PEX properly???
It was engineered and meant for a manifold. 1 length of pipe from said item to the manifold( most likely in the garage)...... Yet PEX for years has been used juat like cpvc......with 50k turns and fittings everywhere......s.m.m.f.h.
1 fitting at the water closet for example on one end & that 1 long length of PEX pipe hits the Manifold where all the other item ends hit the same manifold - PERIOD.
1 hot & 1 cold fitting at the Kitchen sink for example......& both run too the same manifold....NOTHING INBETWEE. This way ""if"" there ever was a leak? Its onlt gonna be in one of two places.....either 1 end or the other......Simple.
I walked into Lennar Homes, K.B. Homes, Custom Homes by lical only builders......it doesnt matter its all Fkd.
Just one small portion of the garage i walked past in this particular Lennar Home, had 67 transitions......67 fittings within 12 ft!!!!!
Fkg sickning.
I'd agree wirh Pex or Copper dependent upon region, but use it properly ppl.
for sure that should've been done shower valve and spigots , pex would be the best thing to use in this particular house either Viega, Uponor or even Apollo.
Will PEX be the next plumbing product to fail?
Btw pex is petroleum based. It’s plastic also. Garbage pipe designed so non plumbers can run garden hoses through houses in no time. Anyone can assemble pex.
Tim Newport as if running copper is difficult. Anyone who has half a brain cell and a torch can sweat pipe
Wtf? Cpvc?!! That stuff is just as bad as poly B. Should have used PEX.
Business has to continue...
should of used copper
It’s called job security.
Called being crooked
Cpvc is not as bad as poly imo. It does get Brittle but Polly is the worst. I do prefer pex though
Did they not get a home inspection when they were in the process of buying the house??
I would’ve personally chosen PEX over CPVC, BUT I will say that in my experience CPVC has a great track record. My childhood home was constructed using only CPVC and to this day there have been zero leaks. My dad put them in himself, and while he is very competent, he is no professional.
Is that different material from pex? I just redid some of my water line with pex
Yes, it's a similar crimp technology, but the materials are different. The pex pipe and fittings shouldn't break down in the same way that polybutylene and acetal did.
Cpvc is fine and will last for decades if undisturbed. I didn't see them using primer though. I've always used it with cpvc.
Is it just glueing or is there an actual reaction that welds the pvc together?
In Germany they are moving towards Stainless Steel Pipes with pressed fittings. I also have seen some PVC pipes with aluminum cores, also with pressed fittings.
Press fittings are bad, each one has an oring in it that can fail. If I were using stainless I would want it threaded or welded. But I dont get why you would choose stainless steel over copper, with copper you can just solder the joints and dont need threading.
Being a Yankee from up north, I say good luck to all these people down south if they ever experience a prolonged power outage during a sub-freezing temperatures.
The cost must have been insane. Of course they didn't talk about that. Can't just repair wallpaper? how did they patch that?
Wallpaper in a bathroom is not wise anyway
Never heard of this plumbing material before until now.
I’m doing a demo of an addition to my house.. there’s a basement foundation that will be filled in once it’s been demolished… however I’m not sure what to do with the service water lines and wastewater drain pipes… do i need to do anything particular with them?!? Or can i just hurry them?
Excuse me , what glue did you use for the pvc pipe? TKS
I'm a weekend warrior, so I not up on all the technique, I thought when gluing, you have to use primer first ??
Never saw that color cement used on cpvc before. Maybe that brand doesn't require a primer/cleaner?
I have had polybutylene pipes ( Qest) for some 30+ years in my house, no troubles except one incident (possible amateur installation error). I am on a 50psig max well with pvc piping service and brass service valves on the community system. all but one brass service valve (some 15 or so) has failed due to corrosion in 47 years of service. The buried pvc piping seems in good order. Could pvc failures have arisen from something (chlorinated or other) that's in the water? There no additives in my well water.
All PVC get old get real brittle, I have cut cpvc,pvc they just shatter, Uv light is the worst enemy.
Jeff has the most calming voice I've ever heard, get that man some sasparilla
Sam Elliot
Can't believe John Wieland Builders in Atlanta, GA used this exact pipe in my home built in 1994!!! I moved before there were any leaks.
Why aren't the new episodes up on the PBS app?
I wish this company was in Virginia I need this done badly
Love the guys southern accent. I wonder if cost was the reason for not using PEX?
They start making removable panels so in 10 to 15 years you can save on drywall
Do you guys in the states have rehau pipe.?
This was a year ago and they are putting cpvc? Instead of pex or copper. Both of which last longer than cpvc
I'm glad I live in a ranch. If my copper pipe ever has problems I can just go down to the basement and fix it without cutting any drywall
Nice popcorn ceiling. Was it tested for asbestos?
This is one reason why I service and repair HVACR systems. I am not a plumber. Just the condensate lines.
Take crap out and put crap right back in. They will be doing this again in 5 to 10 years.
PVC will last the lifetime of that home if installed correctly
Not cpvc it’s cheap and brittle. Homeowner got screwed and any plumber that uses this for a whole house like this is an a hole.
Your a idiot and have no idea what your talking about.
Blade 666 CPVC will definitely not last a lifetime you'll get maybe 15 years that's a stretch the hot water side usually gets so brittle and shatters around 10 years. sometimes the joints even start to fail
10-12 years, then theyll be replacing certain sections here and there. should've used PEX!
Why are they not installing Pex with crimp rings??
So how long before all that PEX plastic tubing starts leaking? As for copper versus other forms of plastic based pipe, I wonder if the PH and mineral content of the water flowing through the pipes has something to do with them wearing out, sooner, or later. Piping materials than work in one region of the country might fail prematurely in another simply based on the content of the water flowing through them.
Ph,and the most important thing people don't know is changing or removing your shower restrictor and other things increases velocity through the pipes creating problems.
If you have acidic water you need a neutralizer. Acid doesn't effect PB but it does eat copper
i have worked on few house n find out more about cpvc cant handle cold below 30f if get freezed will brake easily and ended up having to replace it aging n aging n i tell them switch over to pex and never have issues pass 20 years *been working on plumber for 19 years" and knowing cpvc is nightmare for cold weather and pex outlasted both of them
only grey water line is bad build quality back in 70s to 2000s they all switch to cpvc later switch to pex never seen issues with pex they not same is other things
My RV is from 1989 and it has that polybutylene piping in it! It was leaking when we got the RV years ago! I have been replacing it with color coded pex so it is easy for future owners of the rv to know which valves to shut off when camping and me as well if something goes wrong!
I’m nearby in Fayetteville!
Can't tell you how many times I've seen them glue the snot out of supply pipes causing poor water flow. And trying to find the restriction is incredibly difficult!
Pvc is approved for cold water supply as well as dwv.
This Old House, is polybutylene a recyclable material? If so, where and how is that done and does This Old House recycle? I'm not a builder, but we're trying to recycle everything we can. Thanks in advance for your answers. :o) Donna B.