I think the worst part isn't even the actual changes. It's the fact that many many more months are about to be spent fine tuning gear instead of working on other more meaningful content. We've been here before.
Either that or they start working on some random project that causes the things they originally promised as 'coming soon' to get pushed back (sorcerer, backpacks, quivers, frost mt. 1st layer, skill tree all delayed due to arena, religion, etc). Now we just have more things delaying the content for the game that it desperately needs.
13 months ago, a similar patch was released for the first patch of early access. After the long awaited release of the game, most players lost motivation to play due to the exact reasons you outlined in this video. As a Timmy at the time, I was not concerned about gear diff, however I lost my motivation to play because gear and looting felt pointless. The changes were completely reverted a week later and the game became playable again. My fear is that these changes are completely intended, as they have been made in the past, and the devs will not listen to the community this time. The devs have constantly screwed over players time and time again and we always forgive them. Wiping the game early last wipe, changing rolls on gear mid wipe, not rolling back dupes, long downtime with no communication etc. I have somewhere between 3-5k hours in this game and I'm not sure i have the heart to forgive the devs and return to the game even if the changes are reverted. It is truly unacceptable and I have been here since day 1.
The devs 100% misdiagnosed the current troubles with the game. Last wipe was well loved due to all the new content for us to experience, IM just needs to get actual updates to the game rolling. Skill trees, maps, classes, new weapons, new abilities to experiment with. Tinkering with gear yet again is just insane.
@@anthonyfuentes6090 That was like the last 4 days so at that point wipe is over and its something most extraction shooters do before wipe they make everything accessible really easily or they do something fun for people to fuck around with
I think skill trees, classes and new weapons were all kinda blocked by gear discrepancy. Imagine you are going to add a damage skill to the game. You need to balance it in several ways. Skill itself (how much damage/effect it does, make sure it doesn't one shot any classes, but also is actually useful). Skill in the context of other skills and perks of this class (so it doesn't become broken if you have buffs or whatnot). And skill in the context of skills and perks of other classes. Its already a ton of work. Now add the damage/effect scaling on top (both for the class that owns the skill and classes that can influence the skill). You'll have to make sure that at least in 3 gear brackets skill behaves adequately (not broken, not useless) and in all 3 contexts. That's like 3x amount of work. Now consider, that class like sorc needs to have skills and perks to choose from. At least 3-4 of each. To balance that shit they need not a balancing team, but a balancing f-ing corp. Maybe in that context update will actually allow to balance/put out things quicker. Though I see the point Repoze makes, that gear is not as fun as it used to be. And that there's not much incentive to grind for gear anymore. I'm not sure how you can fix it for veteran players. But I'm also not sure if new players will look at gear the same way. Previously if you were a new player and you start playing mid-wipe, your chances to survive geared loobies were very slim. If you paid for the game, and wanted to try high roller with your blues and mb one purple you were destined to encounter someone with optimized build and legendaries. And in that fight new player would stand no chance, even if he practiced 50 hours in
Update 68 was the best the game felt for me and it was quite rough getting it for only a week and then get hit with update 69... This constant instability is a huge detriment to the game and one that is making me reconsider playing it at all.
update 68 was my favorite point in all patches ive played in my 1k hours. Going under 25's and trying to gear up to a chad all the way through hell was awesome. Legendary gear was still exciting because there were still different rolls and trying to get stuff you wear all in the same match. update 69 I dont even want to open boxes. fights are 2 hits to death. go in with legendary kit, fights still 2 hits to death ??????? SDF pls man
@@coy3004 "legendary kit, fights still 2 hits to death" This even with the best possible rolls for a tank as fighter you are only going have around 170 health and your PDR will be complete ignored by the squire barb with 80% armor pen doing 90 dmg a hit
Make a video talking about it and what you think bro, you guys are the face of the community, if you all agree that it's not good and all show it maybe we can be heard, regardless, many people including myself value your opinion
The game isnt made for grinders anymore sadly. Theyve talked for 8+ months about how they wanted dark and darker to be a more casual game and dont like the community theyve grown. There hasnt been a hardcore player centric update in ages. I enjoyed my stay and I know all of my friends enjoyed dad, but its not developed for us anymore ngl
>want it to be a casual game okay, I like the sound of that, how abou- > -15 HP for everyone, half the classes can now one shot you this is not casual appeal brother
I am sure that the devs of dark and darker enjoyed their stay too because they will also be moving on to other games if they just alienate their fan base
That's the thing, It literally doesn't take a genius or a game developer to go over the balance changes to understand this is obviously over tuned and not needed, TWEAKING the knob that nobody asked for. FOR NO REASON, And they keep doing this OVER and OVER again. There's a distinct LACK of FORESIGHT in anything they've ever tweaked. I could BALANCE the GAME better than Ironmace with a fucking blindfold on and I sincerely mean that.
@@rodgygormin developing a game and balancing a game are two very different things. I could train a monkey to tweak 2 lines of code better than Ironmace.
Thanks for this vid, said basically everything that’s on my mind and probably most other people’s too. I really don’t understand SDFs logic behind this, because if he wants to close the gear disparity, the loot update was already a great change, and
as someone who is a complete noob at the game I completely agree with you. i remember having the mindset that it was all about geardiff when I started too, but as I played I have noticed that it takes a LOT of skill, not just gear. not only have they taken the point of the grind away but they just made it so that 1 class straight up just beats everything. i really do not want to live in a world where Dark and Darker becomes "Barb and Barber"
spud thor and soma are the literal reason this happened everytime we get something good they just have to try their best to find the flaws and be loud about it till the devs actually listens and they do listen to them to the point that they hired soma and thor and they stated many times spud is one of their favourite content creators second to jay and i love all these people but they complain about the wrong stuff and look at the conclusion
Loot no longer feels valuable. It used to be that you'd go into the dungeon, get powerful loot, and then used that powerful loot to get even better loot. A player getting their first Legendary in Dark and Darker was always a special experience, but not anymore. "I get to have four random rolls? That's cool I guess." For an extraction looter game, this is a horrible change, and I honestly will never be able to enjoy the game nearly as much as I used to if it isn't reverted.
not to mention the odds that your weapon damage or armor rating on those legendary items could role less then your squire gear and could never make up with it for random rolls. Even getting them 3-5 times in a single normal hell run felt nice bc like he said they were still leagues better with shitty roles. now legendary gear is just used to vendor a chest peace for 120-150 gold. they're just new trinkets.
I have been a huge advocate for DaD and ironmace. I have always felt that they just have a rocky process and that they respond to user feedback. I feel that this will again be the case. I am still concerned that they could ever think that they could make a change so antithetical to what DaD is. Its an EXTRACTION LOOTER. How in the world do they feel making gear essentially useless is the right move? Did they forget the genre they're residing in? Like fuuuuuck. They're losing my good will.
Getting good gear / keeping the good gear is tied to your skill level as a player. You got progressively better gear and consistently died less as you improved, There is a learning curve to this game, Tied to each and every class. The better you mastered your classes and the games systems, As your map knowledge improved and your knowledge on how to fight each match ups got better? You survived more, You could keep said gear for way longer before inevitably dying to unforeseen scenarios and settings. There's 2 ways you can go about this after dying, 1 : Cope and blame the game / 2 : Git gud Ironmace seems to believe equalizing gear will magically make awful / lower skilled players magically be able to compete with better ones, That's not how it works. Equal opportunity does NOT mean equal outcome. Exhibit A : Counter Strike, Your M4 does the same damage as my M4, I have 5k hours in the game, You picked up the game a week ago, Sure you'll get lucky hits here or there, But in the end you're going to get curb stomped by someone who's waaay more experienced than you no matter how hard you try, You just don't have the 5k hours. And even if you did have equal amount of playtime, Guess what? One of you is still going to be better despite having the same amount of hours. You can't control who's going to be better at the game, Its not up to the devs to equalize the gap between players, Its going to exist no matter what, Not everyone can be good or even decent at this game, I think most people just can't accept that maybe they're just shit at the game, The only cope they have is "Yeah its the gear gab holding me back" Its a fat delusion. Exhibit B : Chess / Good luck trying to beat a grand master with 3 months of playtime. You have the same amount of pieces, everything is equal, What's the cope there? "Its my 9-5 job holding me back" ??? Holy fuck these people GET REAL and ACCEPT that maybe you're not a big fish and never going to be, But if all you can do is cope , you're never going to get better, If all you can see is imaginary barriers holding you back , Yeah, You're going to be the small fish forever. No matter what the devs do to the game, You're always going to be someone else's food no matter what game you play. STOP coping. If you applied this to everything you do in life you're going to generally be more successful in life as well. Instead of coping , maybe work on yourself. The world isn't holding you back. The world isn't the reason why you're fat, Nor the reason why you work a shitty 9-5 job or why you don't have a girlfriend. You can do something about it. Welcome to my ted talk fellas over and out.
You are right - i've been playing DaD for around 1,5k hours now. I am NOT a really good player but also not the worst one. And i have to admit that i coped back then when i died with like "oh yea gear gap". But after some sweating and hard learning the game i was finally able to pick my fights and win them even with "lower gear". The hotfix #69 is so ass that i stopped playing DaD until they revert it - it was a good run folks o7
An unforgiving hardcore fantasy FPS dungeon PvPvE adventure. Band together with your friends and use your courage, wits, and cunning to uncover mythical treasures! omegalul
Not unforgiving, dying has 0 consequences Not hardcore, you have the best gear possible for free Not PvE, everyone skips it because there's no loot Not adventure, all you do is go to the arena in a squire kit and quickly 3v3 No courage used for w+M1 barbarian gameplay No mythical treasures, there is an exactly 0 amount of anything valuable in this game
The game is so focused on trying to balance around gear and pvp. The real skill was always obtaining the gear, and if you can do that, it means you have immaculate game knowledge which means you can probably articulate the pvp in this games simple combat system. You can pretend like gear was the problem and try to make timmies win, but the truth is, they will always get outplayed by better players that are more experienced. #RevertThePatch
This feels almost similar to what happened with the infamous recoil changes with rust. The only difference being that facepunch is a company that can reasonably keep putting out content and keep their very addicting and crunchy gameplay loop alive, despite the loss in hardcore mechanics, most of their playerbase stayed for rust. The rust equivalent of this dark and darker update would be if they tried to remove raiding from rust and removed building or some shit. Revert the patch o7
Difference is that actually helped casual players get into rust - before that everyone just knew rust as the game with insanely hard recoil. I haven't played much Rust after recoil update but I was burnt out anyway - I can see the reasons why they did it. Ironmace are just a bunch of idiots with no reasoning
I've been playing since THE VERY START back when there was legit ZERO rolls on items and I can sadly agree this the worse update and decision they could have made. Booting up the game for the first time and going through the learning stages of learning to kill every mob, encountering pvp, and eventually bossing. I was solo, didn't have a squad to rely on and it took me until playtest 4 to say that I was finally getting the hang of the game. This being said, patch 68 felt like a great patch for not only the more experienced players but also the new or more casual players that play dark and darker. You were able to learn the game or practice the game in >25 lobbies and also have a pretty good chance of finding good gear that you could sell or save up for when u eventually were ready for the higher tier lobbies (125+ / high roller). The entire point of looter/extraction games is to see yourself progress and get stronger as you find/fight others for gear upgrades. This is all from a non casual pov, but I do still believe you can achieve all of this without having to sink in countless hours a day. I guess you can say the point I'm trying to make here is that if ironmace's goal here is to relate or make the game more for the casual players, there are alot of ways they could do it without also ruining the core reason what makes this game what it is. #revertpatch68
We need to group up that IM knows that they are breaking their own game thierself. In the past we can shout "Hold the Line" when they are in lower point. Now is time to that them know what we can do or they won't think this is a serious problem...
After waking up 3 times since this update with no revert, it’s looking like they aren’t gonna revert it. I don’t understand how we’ve gotten here. This game is over if it stays this way
Got my first named item a week ago and have been building a kit for it. And now there is nothing I can do, half the kit turn to shit due to double rolls. I was so excited to run my first named I found in game. But the kit is useless and I know barb will just kill me in squire kit. Game is PvP barb simulator….
Funny thing is, Sdf was so close in his QnA when he talked about each classes needing more ways to deal with the others, via new perks and skills, etc. Legit all we needed lol
crazy to not use the test server for such a big change. I understand they didnt have people playing on it but GIVE INCENTIVE to play on it. Escape from Tarkov gives you top tier ammo, weapon case and other in game things for your MAIN account after you use the early test server and send in bug reports.
Launching this by itself was horrible. They really needed to at least drop this at the same time as the socketing system so we could at least have some build variety.
One issue I dont see discussed: looting is so tedious when you have to read every roll of every item. When the colored name of the item is meaningless, looting boxes, mobs, and enemies at a glance is difficult and convoluted
I 100% agree they need to revert to patch 68, but there is ONE change i think was good and its not being able to role double move speed or health on items
The main reasons to flatten gear was to reward casual players with a better experience and allow a more outplay potential, fair pvp and reduce queue numbers (there is also ttk but i wont mention it). The thing is, we only got rid of 1 normal queue, we are not using 2 queues we could use to distribute gear score and have progression (unless in next weeks they are getting rid of both to just have 1, which would be even worse of a change). 3:53 I though the same , but instead of lowering the top, making the floor higher so casuals can pve much better in normals, so from a 1-8 stat to a 4-7 and having pairs have the same stats but to differenciate each other they have 1 and 2 random roll respectively (except unique that doesnt have another stat but just a 3rd random roll), also armor stats have only 2 tiers common-rare and epic-unique(needed for HR pve and some progression). Then you set 3 total queues to distrubute players to feel fairness and some sort of "league" progression, 1st under 22 gs (no sneaking in jewerly), 2nd 22 to a gear cap of whatever full blue is, and HR with a requirement of full epic gear in gs. And make loot drops according to queue (under 22 has patcht 67 loot, 22-full blue gs has patch 68 loot and HR has an epic gear baseline in loot aprox (going to inferno increases the loot expect in HR which has the lowest increase since difficulty changes the least by going down) I could go more in detail but they could have made less drastic changes doing the same kinda but just halfway and who knows maybe it would be a game improvement, but making the changes mid season is where much of the anger comes from, the already collected loot made too much of a value change, the loss of progression and dopamine hits would come later as they play in the form of mostly boredom and disapointment.
What I like about the patch is that casual players and non-competitive players will get a base speed and power level that doesn't feel too slow and that is beneficial for PVE, which is good for a first experience and overall new players retention. What is bad about the patch is that the PVP aspect is not balanced at all and the grind for good gear is meaningless. I understand the logic behind having fixed implicit on base types, but in order to work, they would need to add new base types with better implicits that can only drop in harder content. The chase for these new items would be fun and would definitely work and make players grind. So Here's the fix: Add new base types for harder difficulty content, scale the base speed up, lower the mobs life pool & nerf Barb.
not sure atm, i've always said i'm gonna play and stream what i find fun. if the next patch also looks bad and the game isn't fun for me, i'll just play something else
I agree with everything in this. I cannot believe that sdf would even think about adding these changes. People coping saying now gear is equal and timmies can now beat people like toddfather. No the fuck you can’t.
i feel like captain barbossa in the first pirates of the carribean movie "I feel nothing, not the wind against my face, nor the spray of the sea. Not even the warmth of a woman's touch..."
The only issue was lowering HP for whatever reason like if youre gonna equalize Gear you have to equalize HP, Same example could be said for hunt showdown even tho theres no classes. Theres traits and the traits do effect gameplay but EVERY hunter/player starts off with 150 hp with multiple chance to revive based on how many bars of health they have divided in 25/50 HP
Was shell shocked to login today and see that I can build 40 will on a cleric in junk grade squire gear. I really like how it feels to play with good stats and have crazy damage ( I even one shot a spider mummy as a rogue in no gear) but I kept asking what is my goal? Get better gear? My squire gear is better gear, why spend 5k on kits and BiS rolls when the difference is shockingly low. Items are dirt cheap and every legendary I find if it isnt BiS rolls isnt worth grabbing. Its difficult to describe but I didnt have a whole lot of motivation to actually play the game, I logged in to see the changes and it was fun for the first few games but Im good now. I want loot to mean something.
i think the idea wasnt half bad the execution was just so fucking terrible and the barb just feels like prank of sort dont let this game die like this we beg u IRONMACE
Personally think that outwardly invisible rarity shouldnt have any much impact on stats in the first place Bigger metal armors should give more armor not a leather jacket with a gold name in the inventory Theres just no way to tell how strong somebodies weapon is before it clips you in the face
once they added 3 new classes that can do everything and i mean everything...ranged, melee, flexibility in utility and fuck it make them immortal why not. immortality in dark and darker what an awesome idea. we used to have 6 classes 4 melee 2 ranged and the game was at its best proven by the fact to blow up the way it did.
They're always so heavy-handed with changes. They could've implemented the suffix changes, limiting movespeed and +health rolls, and that would've been good on it's own. Maybe reduce base hp *slightly*. If rangers are too strong? Reduce their dmg by like 4% and wait to see how it goes. Another 3-4% later maybe if they still dominate. Instead they always make these massive nerfs/buffs taking things that were good to being unplayable trash, or things that were viable but slightly weak to OP levels. They buffed barbs in literally 5 different ways in this patch. All together that's a massive buff to what was already one of the strongest classes.
As someone who just really got into this game about a month ago, patch #68 got me to learn both floors of the frost map (i had refused to go before it lol), it motivated me to learn bosses like lich and ghost king too which i can reliably solo now, i found my first unique mob which dropped my first named item (Wanderlight Lantern). I found my first legendaries and had many fights that always felt very fair imo. Then the #69 nation attacked… now i dont care about any of the bosses i learned, I dont care about getting a legendary item, i wouldnt even care finding another unique mob because i know it’ll drop me some trash rolled squire gear or worse. My duo who has thousands of hours dating back to the first playtest has also dropped the game for the same reasons. When my duo is on, we would run down pvp and win or lose it was FUN AND FAIR. Now if we lose we say “this patch sucks” and if we win we say “this patch sucks”. Even the focus of these changes (pvp “balancing”) makes the pvp feel unrewarding because it becomes a tug of war to see who can hit who first. Ive been trying to think of any thing possible i could do with this patch to keep me interested in it but nothing feels good anymore. The overwhelming reaction from the community gave me hope that they’d at least turn back a FEW changes… but seeing the devs post about actively ignoring us has disheartened me even more. Unfortunately this train wreck that i cant look away from is sadly not just a spectacle because i am invested in this train surviving.
i played every play test and i think the problem isnt the base stats its the awful rolls because back then the only change from common to unique was armour rating/wep dmg but then the rolls couldve been insane, 2/3 all you could roll 3 additional 3 true on same piece, etc, but with the current rolls i agree with you this is by far the worst patch ever and ive been thru every single bad patch but this one wins it all
Theyre headed in the right direction. They are fixing a major problem where time spent in game matters far more than skill. I've seen so many barbs miss over and over and over and over and get kited to hell and back just to land one achilles strike and and then hit someone once and they die while the barb is still half health because of gear diff. Gear needed to take a massive hit because it made the game unplayable for people that can't put in 80 hours a week into a video game
I have played for two years. I work a 40 hour a week job. I have never played a wipe since my first playtest that I wasn't able to build a kit with legendary gear with amazing rolls. Its not hard to get good gear and last patch made it so easy!
It'd be pretty easy for them to just add scaling to higher rarities base stats, which would make legendaries better than squire gear in every case, as it should be.
Nothing's changed about good gear. A crap legendary or epic was worth roughly the same amount as their vendor price, the exact same situation as now. Now, you have a chance to find good sellable loot even if it's green/blue/epic. Gear is overall far more valuable now than it was in the previous patch.
Gear diff is a necessary evil for the game, rather than dragging the top players down to the same level we should allow more ways to express skill and with more depth to allow people to counter gear with skill. Fighting geared players should always be high risk- high reward, uphill battles are exciting.
you said it earlier yourself, fighting players who are much worse than you is extremely boring. That's what sub 25 lobbies are for people who don't want to farm gear. They want an even playing field where gear doesn't matter. But they also want an environment where the level of players isn't complete beginner. I don't agree with the patch, I'm just giving the perspective I've heard.
Excellent video. They must revert the patch or suffer. The only point I slightly disagree with is at @9:00. I would pull several royal pieces of jewelry and maybe on or two legendary items as a rogue with locks and traps. Hitting pile then hitting golden/marvelous chests were cash
I think this is a pre-patch in preparation for gems. I believe items will all be the same and rarity will determine the number of sockets. Gems won't be limited so if you wanted only +health, you could stack +max hp gems in every socket. same with +damage. That is probably why the base stats are low because if you stack all +damage in gems AND high rarity items have high base damage, it'd be even more insane.
Behind this update, you can really see how arrogant and self-centered Sdf is. They pushed out such a drastic update without any prior testing or surveys (note that this game has a test server), and they just went ahead with the changes abruptly, without any buffer period. Honestly, even if they had given us a week to sort out our gear and rankings, it wouldn't have been so bad. I'm not saying that giving advance notice would have made the update better, but at least it would show some respect for the players, even if they don't have much sense. But now, they're acting like dictators, making decisions unilaterally without any regard for the players, constantly pushing our limits and wearing down our patience. I've really had enough. The worst game developer in history: Sdf.
I used to play dark and darker a lot. I haven't touched the game in at least 10 months. IMO the game was at its best in its early days when you could use skill to get really strong gear that actually mattered and allowed you to combine skill with power for an unmatched experience. But there's always been this trend in the game of higher tier gear getting scaled down. The gap between legendary and common has been shrinking for a long time. Then they added white lobbies and quests, and then it was like, "Why do I want to do all these super boring and tedious brainrot quests in a game where the PvE is totally devoid of stimulation and the reward system of the game got destroyed due to the incessant gear nerfs? Plus there are white lobbies now so I'll just do that instead of wasting my time on something that is now a meaningless grind." I think that's kind of the point where the game stopped being fun. Sure I could have just kept playing white lobbies, but having to fight hordes of brainrot mobs just to maybe find another player who would inevitably just run away across the map while closing 500 doors that each take way longer to open than to close for some stupid reason all while putting up with dark and darker's troll metas like jump meta and menu meta just didn't seem all that appealing to me for some reason. I mean, if you're gonna play white lobbies for fair fights because gear stats are meaningless or because you don't believe in gear dif., go play mordhau, go play counter-strike. Play any PvP game other than freakin' dark and darker and skip all the bloat bullcrap. The only reason to even consider tolerating all that bloat is gear, and gear is gone now.
3v3 gobbo caves with insane gear, good drop rates, no gear score lobbies was maybe the most fun i have ever had in any video game ever and I'm old so I've played a lot lol. Got every class kitted and did lots of zero to heros.
I feel like the complete opposite would've been great. Increased base stats on items with increased rarity as the core, remove random modifiers completely(or cap to 1 per item and make the roll range bigger for Higher rarities). Combined with high drop chances from last patch that would be perfectly linear gear progression that everyone can achieve.
Wall of text inbound. I’m okay with a few of the changes. I think double max health and movespeed being removed was good. Pdr/health was a little too high on some classes especially if they had double ms boots, but the loot/health changes are just not it, 68 was great, the whole crew was wanting more after more raids and going down because it was fun to hunt purples/legendarys, there was other teams contesting it, and you could bring gear because if you lose it it was so easy to get geared up again. 69 just feels like a br. Every fight just feels dumb it’s either 1 or 2 shot somebody or get 1 or 2 shot, there’s rarely any opportunity for outplay/heals after getting windlassed for 80%, looting just feels like a huge waste of time unless it’s on a meta piece with at least 2+ rolls its worthless over free squire gear. My suggestion is revert barb buffs or at least tone them down so “they’re viable in trios” (still cancer in solos). Ranger/ranged damage needs to be looked at. Revert health changes, drop some classes by 6(barb fighter) rest by 3 if they feel it’s needed. I’m okay with gear being squished, but this was just too drastic. I’d like to see them try maybe 3 base on squire/greens, 4 on blue/purple, 4.5 or 5 on legendary/unique, let armor/mr/damage/health scale on items slightly so players in a full set of legendary/unique even if it’s shit rolls have a 1-2 hit advantage over mirror match in full blues, but relatively even playing field if the lower geared player has good rolls. A full bis person should have 3-4 hit advantage on someone who is in greens with crap rolls at least. I get trying to get rid of gear score ques but at this point they’re still needed. Just make 0-35 base gear lobbies, 35-200, and 200+ you’re just in hr at that point. Pull the people that are gear maxing in 180-199 kits into hr lobbies if it’s low pop/lobbies with people just at the 200 mark to get in.
I love it when my looter extraction game no longer requires looting or extracting. As a timmie I hate this current patch, the entire alure of the game which was getting good loot is gone. I don't like PvP, but being able to actually win an encounter is fun. In my opinion the bigger issue that plagues this game is pitting mechanically skilled players against those that aren't even close to being on the same skill level
This video perfectly sums up what I've been saying to my DaD friends. I'm a SSF player, I don't spend thousands on kits and go into goblin caves, I wanna loot up and find cool stuff. The dopamine of finding a good weapon early on in my "zero to hero" is completely gone. Gear diffing is bad to some extent, but at a certain point the "skill" is knowing when and how to take a fight against a more geared player. They've made the game super arcadey and boring, it almost feels like the base game now is what arena was supposed to be.
patch 68 was peak dark and darker experience , then they fked it up SOOO hard. just why.... The gear difference still was big if you run gear worse than epic , but thats a problem with item rolls. It took them until this point to remove double movespeed and HP rolls on item.... I like the change of -15HP and the adjustemt of the rollls But bro, i found my first unique , and if was like meh... only 1 agility on it , not worth it .
Things about the gear change, I like that my squire gear feels good to run. I can actually try out different builds without spending a bunch on a kit to find out it's shit but something needs to differentiate commons from legendary. if they want to keep base stats similar then let higher rarity roll higher stats
A good idea would be if they just made something like the White a grey items give you 2 base stat gren and blue 3 epic and legendary 4 and uniques 5 doing that you want to scale from white to green and from green to blue just for a random atribute more
Honestly I really like those changes but I see some things they could do better and this patch really should stay in the oven: -Increase basic stats only for legendaries/uniques (the moment when you kill the boss and you see that legendary dagger is worse than white dagger its a joke) -Remove half stuff from squire, this will increease the value of weapon animations/basic item stats. (for example leave rogue with castillion dagger and barbarian with battle axe on squire) -You can buy other items at the vendor and increase their price (rogue can buy rondel dagger and barbarian bardiche) -add some new random stats (rolling buff duration or magic interaction sucks) -Revert the barbarian buffs. -fix laced turnshoe and lightfoot boots problem and less important but also healthy things -remove rat form -give rogue normal crossbow -remove grey and white because right now its pointless -add more quests -class balance changes
Gotta disagree on a few things, this patch still sucks ass tho 1: Old squire kits weren't exactly a good environment to play with zero gear as most classes need more knowledge to really play their class at the base level. Being able to use the all the songs I want as bard without gearing up is a massive positive with this update. 2: You absolutely could find 5+ legendaries every single normals run on ruins. Looting either ruins boss pile, plus mid pile on crypts, plus big chests/pile in inferno you will get 5 legendary items every single run. I was playing bard with blythar and wanderers luck (no luck pot) hunting boss drops/royal gems and this was my experience over many runs. They need to take the squire kits down to old green/blue gear and still leave room for items to get better. Purple weapons vs common armor ontop of -15 hp to everyone is the dumbest shit ive seen this company do in a long time. Also remove the dogshit modifiers from items like memory capacity % and flat. Magic/Phys damage weapons should have their rolls split in 2 categories instead of rolling the same modifiers, just like bows currently do.
Game feels worse than when we had multiclassing honestly. Atleast there were some build disparity, now all you see is literally barbs and rangers in the feed. Entire HR lobbies 90% in squire gear.
Gear diff is still an issue in squire lobbies, maybe more so. Cause some fighter/barb would get lucky, find a couple blues and wipe lobby. Feels like Fortnight. The loot changes are a step in the wrong direction though, I wish we got sorc or monk instead.
Everything you said is my exact opinion on the matter,like I’ve been on discord ranting everything you said on this video and I’m actually new this wipe so part of me thought that I didn’t know what I was talking about.
I think the idea of decreasing the gear gap was needed but this is obviously a bit much. And they went 0-100 on it. Why not make squire kit equal to green gear first and see how that goes.
Agree with everything you said. I wish you and other high end players are in some dev team meetings etc. :) To changes: I wish they make Normal lobbys available only up to 124 or 224 GS... everything above = only HR(+HR lobby log in without any gear limit "0+GS")
I think the worst part isn't even the actual changes. It's the fact that many many more months are about to be spent fine tuning gear instead of working on other more meaningful content. We've been here before.
True dat.
And SDF is way too stubborn to change it back
Either that or they start working on some random project that causes the things they originally promised as 'coming soon' to get pushed back (sorcerer, backpacks, quivers, frost mt. 1st layer, skill tree all delayed due to arena, religion, etc). Now we just have more things delaying the content for the game that it desperately needs.
13 months ago, a similar patch was released for the first patch of early access. After the long awaited release of the game, most players lost motivation to play due to the exact reasons you outlined in this video. As a Timmy at the time, I was not concerned about gear diff, however I lost my motivation to play because gear and looting felt pointless. The changes were completely reverted a week later and the game became playable again. My fear is that these changes are completely intended, as they have been made in the past, and the devs will not listen to the community this time. The devs have constantly screwed over players time and time again and we always forgive them. Wiping the game early last wipe, changing rolls on gear mid wipe, not rolling back dupes, long downtime with no communication etc. I have somewhere between 3-5k hours in this game and I'm not sure i have the heart to forgive the devs and return to the game even if the changes are reverted. It is truly unacceptable and I have been here since day 1.
So true they need to start making the game fun again
The devs 100% misdiagnosed the current troubles with the game. Last wipe was well loved due to all the new content for us to experience, IM just needs to get actual updates to the game rolling. Skill trees, maps, classes, new weapons, new abilities to experiment with. Tinkering with gear yet again is just insane.
Common case of devs that dont play
No they fcked me last wipe too adding multi class with no warning.
@@anthonyfuentes6090 That was like the last 4 days so at that point wipe is over and its something most extraction shooters do before wipe they make everything accessible really easily or they do something fun for people to fuck around with
I think skill trees, classes and new weapons were all kinda blocked by gear discrepancy.
Imagine you are going to add a damage skill to the game. You need to balance it in several ways. Skill itself (how much damage/effect it does, make sure it doesn't one shot any classes, but also is actually useful). Skill in the context of other skills and perks of this class (so it doesn't become broken if you have buffs or whatnot). And skill in the context of skills and perks of other classes.
Its already a ton of work.
Now add the damage/effect scaling on top (both for the class that owns the skill and classes that can influence the skill). You'll have to make sure that at least in 3 gear brackets skill behaves adequately (not broken, not useless) and in all 3 contexts. That's like 3x amount of work.
Now consider, that class like sorc needs to have skills and perks to choose from. At least 3-4 of each. To balance that shit they need not a balancing team, but a balancing f-ing corp.
Maybe in that context update will actually allow to balance/put out things quicker. Though I see the point Repoze makes, that gear is not as fun as it used to be. And that there's not much incentive to grind for gear anymore. I'm not sure how you can fix it for veteran players. But I'm also not sure if new players will look at gear the same way.
Previously if you were a new player and you start playing mid-wipe, your chances to survive geared loobies were very slim. If you paid for the game, and wanted to try high roller with your blues and mb one purple you were destined to encounter someone with optimized build and legendaries. And in that fight new player would stand no chance, even if he practiced 50 hours in
1000% agree brutha
Update 68 was the best the game felt for me and it was quite rough getting it for only a week and then get hit with update 69... This constant instability is a huge detriment to the game and one that is making me reconsider playing it at all.
update 68 was my favorite point in all patches ive played in my 1k hours. Going under 25's and trying to gear up to a chad all the way through hell was awesome. Legendary gear was still exciting because there were still different rolls and trying to get stuff you wear all in the same match.
update 69 I dont even want to open boxes. fights are 2 hits to death. go in with legendary kit, fights still 2 hits to death ??????? SDF pls man
first time?
@@coy3004 "legendary kit, fights still 2 hits to death" This even with the best possible rolls for a tank as fighter you are only going have around 170 health and your PDR will be complete ignored by the squire barb with 80% armor pen doing 90 dmg a hit
one of the best updates then to the worst one, what a roller coaster 🤦♂️
Please, content creators, talk with sdf. Ur the last hope :')
what a really good joke but it's not a joke huuhhh
Make a video talking about it and what you think bro, you guys are the face of the community, if you all agree that it's not good and all show it maybe we can be heard, regardless, many people including myself value your opinion
@@DamienCloud alr did brotha
@@Y4mi2599 My bad, you're the goat
I don’t want to see this game go out like this
same bro the game has so much potential
Potential is meaningless when you have mentally incompetent devs @@7777revenge
yeah the game could be so good i dont want to see this kind of thing happen
The game isnt made for grinders anymore sadly. Theyve talked for 8+ months about how they wanted dark and darker to be a more casual game and dont like the community theyve grown. There hasnt been a hardcore player centric update in ages. I enjoyed my stay and I know all of my friends enjoyed dad, but its not developed for us anymore ngl
>want it to be a casual game
okay, I like the sound of that, how abou-
> -15 HP for everyone, half the classes can now one shot you
this is not casual appeal brother
I am sure that the devs of dark and darker enjoyed their stay too because they will also be moving on to other games if they just alienate their fan base
@@Isaaxthe ttk change is a different topic ngl i don't even know who that was supposed to cater to
yoo ziptie u play DaD??? wtf lol
@@ZipTie I enjoy the lower ttk but the gear change feels terrible
That's the thing, It literally doesn't take a genius or a game developer to go over the balance changes to understand this is obviously over tuned and not needed, TWEAKING the knob that nobody asked for. FOR NO REASON, And they keep doing this OVER and OVER again. There's a distinct LACK of FORESIGHT in anything they've ever tweaked. I could BALANCE the GAME better than Ironmace with a fucking blindfold on and I sincerely mean that.
Another 6 months of tweaking numbers instead of actual content 🔥
@kazaren you tweak my knob
I don’t think they actually play there game
nothing stopping you from making your own game.
@@rodgygormin developing a game and balancing a game are two very different things. I could train a monkey to tweak 2 lines of code better than Ironmace.
Thanks for this vid, said basically everything that’s on my mind and probably most other people’s too. I really don’t understand SDFs logic behind this, because if he wants to close the gear disparity, the loot update was already a great change, and
as someone who is a complete noob at the game I completely agree with you. i remember having the mindset that it was all about geardiff when I started too, but as I played I have noticed that it takes a LOT of skill, not just gear. not only have they taken the point of the grind away but they just made it so that 1 class straight up just beats everything. i really do not want to live in a world where Dark and Darker becomes "Barb and Barber"
Someone new to the game with intelligence thank god you have no idea how rare you are
I mean gearcheck only really happens because there is zero combat mechanics in this game.
@@valor4531???? 😂😂😭😭 average 50 hours playtime barb main's take
Play a Ranger then, a Barb literally can’t do a single thing lmao
It breaks my heart to have experienced hotfix #68 only to have it completely drstroyed a week later in #69...I hope they listen to you Repoze.
Playtest 6 has been the longest one yet
Vanilla DaD server when?!?
@@Lothane95 Theres one right now on blacksmith test server. Get everyone on it
Weren’t you the one advocating that they remove all pvp stats on gear?? And make it a game based off playing just abilities?
spud thor and soma are the literal reason this happened everytime we get something good they just have to try their best to find the flaws and be loud about it till the devs actually listens and they do listen to them to the point that they hired soma and thor and they stated many times spud is one of their favourite content creators second to jay and i love all these people but they complain about the wrong stuff and look at the conclusion
@@ramisama88 exactly you are 100% right I wonder how they’re gonna respond since they are the ones that constantly bitch about gear diffing
Loot no longer feels valuable. It used to be that you'd go into the dungeon, get powerful loot, and then used that powerful loot to get even better loot. A player getting their first Legendary in Dark and Darker was always a special experience, but not anymore. "I get to have four random rolls? That's cool I guess." For an extraction looter game, this is a horrible change, and I honestly will never be able to enjoy the game nearly as much as I used to if it isn't reverted.
not to mention the odds that your weapon damage or armor rating on those legendary items could role less then your squire gear and could never make up with it for random rolls. Even getting them 3-5 times in a single normal hell run felt nice bc like he said they were still leagues better with shitty roles. now legendary gear is just used to vendor a chest peace for 120-150 gold. they're just new trinkets.
Grats SDF game is now just shitty Mordhau with Magic sprinkles.
Thanks for making this vid Repoze.
I have been a huge advocate for DaD and ironmace. I have always felt that they just have a rocky process and that they respond to user feedback. I feel that this will again be the case. I am still concerned that they could ever think that they could make a change so antithetical to what DaD is. Its an EXTRACTION LOOTER. How in the world do they feel making gear essentially useless is the right move? Did they forget the genre they're residing in? Like fuuuuuck. They're losing my good will.
Getting good gear / keeping the good gear is tied to your skill level as a player. You got progressively better gear and consistently died less as you improved, There is a learning curve to this game, Tied to each and every class. The better you mastered your classes and the games systems, As your map knowledge improved and your knowledge on how to fight each match ups got better? You survived more, You could keep said gear for way longer before inevitably dying to unforeseen scenarios and settings. There's 2 ways you can go about this after dying, 1 : Cope and blame the game / 2 : Git gud
Ironmace seems to believe equalizing gear will magically make awful / lower skilled players magically be able to compete with better ones, That's not how it works. Equal opportunity does NOT mean equal outcome. Exhibit A : Counter Strike, Your M4 does the same damage as my M4, I have 5k hours in the game, You picked up the game a week ago, Sure you'll get lucky hits here or there, But in the end you're going to get curb stomped by someone who's waaay more experienced than you no matter how hard you try, You just don't have the 5k hours. And even if you did have equal amount of playtime, Guess what? One of you is still going to be better despite having the same amount of hours. You can't control who's going to be better at the game, Its not up to the devs to equalize the gap between players, Its going to exist no matter what, Not everyone can be good or even decent at this game, I think most people just can't accept that maybe they're just shit at the game, The only cope they have is "Yeah its the gear gab holding me back" Its a fat delusion. Exhibit B : Chess / Good luck trying to beat a grand master with 3 months of playtime. You have the same amount of pieces, everything is equal, What's the cope there? "Its my 9-5 job holding me back" ??? Holy fuck these people GET REAL and ACCEPT that maybe you're not a big fish and never going to be, But if all you can do is cope , you're never going to get better, If all you can see is imaginary barriers holding you back , Yeah, You're going to be the small fish forever. No matter what the devs do to the game, You're always going to be someone else's food no matter what game you play. STOP coping.
If you applied this to everything you do in life you're going to generally be more successful in life as well. Instead of coping , maybe work on yourself. The world isn't holding you back. The world isn't the reason why you're fat, Nor the reason why you work a shitty 9-5 job or why you don't have a girlfriend. You can do something about it.
Welcome to my ted talk fellas over and out.
Golden comment
Yeah I just started winning high gear fights consistently with my duo and they shut down the game like that
Oh my god Kazaren spitting absolute facts. Someone show this to the redditors
@@itsflook6679 After writing that I decided to record it and uploaded it an hour ago. I think it just needs to be heard.
You are right - i've been playing DaD for around 1,5k hours now. I am NOT a really good player but also not the worst one. And i have to admit that i coped back then when i died with like "oh yea gear gap". But after some sweating and hard learning the game i was finally able to pick my fights and win them even with "lower gear". The hotfix #69 is so ass that i stopped playing DaD until they revert it - it was a good run folks o7
Repose is the only one who is giving the most based takes
This is the first time since PT3 that I have decided to take a break from the game. If they keep going down this path, I don't see myself coming back.
Patch 68 was the best dark and darker I’ve ever played in my life I hope they rollback so my kits are fixed and the game is good again
An unforgiving hardcore fantasy FPS dungeon PvPvE adventure. Band together with your friends and use your courage, wits, and cunning to uncover mythical treasures!
omegalul
Not unforgiving, dying has 0 consequences
Not hardcore, you have the best gear possible for free
Not PvE, everyone skips it because there's no loot
Not adventure, all you do is go to the arena in a squire kit and quickly 3v3
No courage used for w+M1 barbarian gameplay
No mythical treasures, there is an exactly 0 amount of anything valuable in this game
Going from patch 68 to patch 69 shows how far out of touch we are here. It’s sad to see.
Yep the game is ruined, RIP my 3k hours. Not coming back until it's fixed.
I agree with you and just hearing the sound of your voice in the first 5 seconds shows us the infinite despair you are faced with
The game is so focused on trying to balance around gear and pvp. The real skill was always obtaining the gear, and if you can do that, it means you have immaculate game knowledge which means you can probably articulate the pvp in this games simple combat system. You can pretend like gear was the problem and try to make timmies win, but the truth is, they will always get outplayed by better players that are more experienced. #RevertThePatch
Give up the line boys.
we've held it long enough. Its time to move on. RIP DARK AND DARKER
Cope
We held the line that dragged us into hell. I hate ironmace.
Oh no the people who used to roll everyone are getting rolled.. how sad.
deadlock looking real good rn
We held the line for this. 😢
This feels almost similar to what happened with the infamous recoil changes with rust. The only difference being that facepunch is a company that can reasonably keep putting out content and keep their very addicting and crunchy gameplay loop alive, despite the loss in hardcore mechanics, most of their playerbase stayed for rust. The rust equivalent of this dark and darker update would be if they tried to remove raiding from rust and removed building or some shit. Revert the patch o7
Difference is that actually helped casual players get into rust - before that everyone just knew rust as the game with insanely hard recoil. I haven't played much Rust after recoil update but I was burnt out anyway - I can see the reasons why they did it.
Ironmace are just a bunch of idiots with no reasoning
GET SDF OUT OF THE KITCHEN, DO NOT LET HIM COOK
I've been playing since THE VERY START back when there was legit ZERO rolls on items and I can sadly agree this the worse update and decision they could have made. Booting up the game for the first time and going through the learning stages of learning to kill every mob, encountering pvp, and eventually bossing. I was solo, didn't have a squad to rely on and it took me until playtest 4 to say that I was finally getting the hang of the game.
This being said, patch 68 felt like a great patch for not only the more experienced players but also the new or more casual players that play dark and darker. You were able to learn the game or practice the game in >25 lobbies and also have a pretty good chance of finding good gear that you could sell or save up for when u eventually were ready for the higher tier lobbies (125+ / high roller). The entire point of looter/extraction games is to see yourself progress and get stronger as you find/fight others for gear upgrades. This is all from a non casual pov, but I do still believe you can achieve all of this without having to sink in countless hours a day.
I guess you can say the point I'm trying to make here is that if ironmace's goal here is to relate or make the game more for the casual players, there are alot of ways they could do it without also ruining the core reason what makes this game what it is. #revertpatch68
We need to group up that IM knows that they are breaking their own game thierself. In the past we can shout "Hold the Line" when they are in lower point. Now is time to that them know what we can do or they won't think this is a serious problem...
i actually like the changes
i dont. we lost more then 15% of players and in some servers it feel more dead then before
you know the video is serious when he doesnt start the video with "hey everyone repoze here"
After waking up 3 times since this update with no revert, it’s looking like they aren’t gonna revert it. I don’t understand how we’ve gotten here. This game is over if it stays this way
im so thankful the way you said it all man. Keep being a good ambasador for the true dark and darker fans
sdf needs glasses with this vision of his
Got my first named item a week ago and have been building a kit for it. And now there is nothing I can do, half the kit turn to shit due to double rolls. I was so excited to run my first named I found in game. But the kit is useless and I know barb will just kill me in squire kit. Game is PvP barb simulator….
Funny thing is, Sdf was so close in his QnA when he talked about each classes needing more ways to deal with the others, via new perks and skills, etc.
Legit all we needed lol
crazy to not use the test server for such a big change. I understand they didnt have people playing on it but GIVE INCENTIVE to play on it. Escape from Tarkov gives you top tier ammo, weapon case and other in game things for your MAIN account after you use the early test server and send in bug reports.
Launching this by itself was horrible. They really needed to at least drop this at the same time as the socketing system so we could at least have some build variety.
Now i understand why you perfer terraria.
One issue I dont see discussed: looting is so tedious when you have to read every roll of every item. When the colored name of the item is meaningless, looting boxes, mobs, and enemies at a glance is difficult and convoluted
I 100% agree they need to revert to patch 68, but there is ONE change i think was good and its not being able to role double move speed or health on items
You don't let a person with 20/400 vision drive.
The main reasons to flatten gear was to reward casual players with a better experience and allow a more outplay potential, fair pvp and reduce queue numbers (there is also ttk but i wont mention it). The thing is, we only got rid of 1 normal queue, we are not using 2 queues we could use to distribute gear score and have progression (unless in next weeks they are getting rid of both to just have 1, which would be even worse of a change).
3:53 I though the same , but instead of lowering the top, making the floor higher so casuals can pve much better in normals, so from a 1-8 stat to a 4-7 and having pairs have the same stats but to differenciate each other they have 1 and 2 random roll respectively (except unique that doesnt have another stat but just a 3rd random roll), also armor stats have only 2 tiers common-rare and epic-unique(needed for HR pve and some progression).
Then you set 3 total queues to distrubute players to feel fairness and some sort of "league" progression, 1st under 22 gs (no sneaking in jewerly), 2nd 22 to a gear cap of whatever full blue is, and HR with a requirement of full epic gear in gs. And make loot drops according to queue (under 22 has patcht 67 loot, 22-full blue gs has patch 68 loot and HR has an epic gear baseline in loot aprox (going to inferno increases the loot expect in HR which has the lowest increase since difficulty changes the least by going down)
I could go more in detail but they could have made less drastic changes doing the same kinda but just halfway and who knows maybe it would be a game improvement, but making the changes mid season is where much of the anger comes from, the already collected loot made too much of a value change, the loss of progression and dopamine hits would come later as they play in the form of mostly boredom and disapointment.
2 steps forward, 18 million steps backwards
What I like about the patch is that casual players and non-competitive players will get a base speed and power level that doesn't feel too slow and that is beneficial for PVE, which is good for a first experience and overall new players retention.
What is bad about the patch is that the PVP aspect is not balanced at all and the grind for good gear is meaningless. I understand the logic behind having fixed implicit on base types, but in order to work, they would need to add new base types with better implicits that can only drop in harder content. The chase for these new items would be fun and would definitely work and make players grind.
So Here's the fix: Add new base types for harder difficulty content, scale the base speed up, lower the mobs life pool & nerf Barb.
As a casual player, my only big problem with the patch are barbarians. Yesterday I played like 10 games and all my deaths were caused by barbarians.
Well said start to finish. Whats your plan for streaming and content creation? Are you planning on sticking through the dark days or changing games?
not sure atm, i've always said i'm gonna play and stream what i find fun. if the next patch also looks bad and the game isn't fun for me, i'll just play something else
@@Repoze you know the game is fr dying when twitch has 1.2k waching on a sunday morning {swear it was at like atleast 2-4k in the morning}
wish you the best of luck repoze, if it comes to that
@@Repoze based.
I agree with everything in this. I cannot believe that sdf would even think about adding these changes. People coping saying now gear is equal and timmies can now beat people like toddfather. No the fuck you can’t.
i feel like captain barbossa in the first pirates of the carribean movie
"I feel nothing, not the wind against my face, nor the spray of the sea. Not even the warmth of a woman's touch..."
Just that first clip is enough to ragequit...
The only issue was lowering HP for whatever reason like if youre gonna equalize Gear you have to equalize HP, Same example could be said for hunt showdown even tho theres no classes. Theres traits and the traits do effect gameplay but EVERY hunter/player starts off with 150 hp with multiple chance to revive based on how many bars of health they have divided in 25/50 HP
Was shell shocked to login today and see that I can build 40 will on a cleric in junk grade squire gear. I really like how it feels to play with good stats and have crazy damage ( I even one shot a spider mummy as a rogue in no gear) but I kept asking what is my goal? Get better gear? My squire gear is better gear, why spend 5k on kits and BiS rolls when the difference is shockingly low. Items are dirt cheap and every legendary I find if it isnt BiS rolls isnt worth grabbing. Its difficult to describe but I didnt have a whole lot of motivation to actually play the game, I logged in to see the changes and it was fun for the first few games but Im good now. I want loot to mean something.
i think the idea wasnt half bad the execution was just so fucking terrible and the barb just feels like prank of sort dont let this game die like this we beg u IRONMACE
You said every issue I have with this patch right now. I do 100% agree !!!!!!!!!!!!
Personally think that outwardly invisible rarity shouldnt have any much impact on stats in the first place
Bigger metal armors should give more armor not a leather jacket with a gold name in the inventory
Theres just no way to tell how strong somebodies weapon is before it clips you in the face
once they added 3 new classes that can do everything and i mean everything...ranged, melee, flexibility in utility and fuck it make them immortal why not. immortality in dark and darker what an awesome idea. we used to have 6 classes 4 melee 2 ranged and the game was at its best proven by the fact to blow up the way it did.
how is a druid a ranged character? lmfao
They're always so heavy-handed with changes. They could've implemented the suffix changes, limiting movespeed and +health rolls, and that would've been good on it's own. Maybe reduce base hp *slightly*. If rangers are too strong? Reduce their dmg by like 4% and wait to see how it goes. Another 3-4% later maybe if they still dominate.
Instead they always make these massive nerfs/buffs taking things that were good to being unplayable trash, or things that were viable but slightly weak to OP levels.
They buffed barbs in literally 5 different ways in this patch. All together that's a massive buff to what was already one of the strongest classes.
As someone who just really got into this game about a month ago, patch #68 got me to learn both floors of the frost map (i had refused to go before it lol), it motivated me to learn bosses like lich and ghost king too which i can reliably solo now, i found my first unique mob which dropped my first named item (Wanderlight Lantern). I found my first legendaries and had many fights that always felt very fair imo. Then the #69 nation attacked… now i dont care about any of the bosses i learned, I dont care about getting a legendary item, i wouldnt even care finding another unique mob because i know it’ll drop me some trash rolled squire gear or worse. My duo who has thousands of hours dating back to the first playtest has also dropped the game for the same reasons. When my duo is on, we would run down pvp and win or lose it was FUN AND FAIR. Now if we lose we say “this patch sucks” and if we win we say “this patch sucks”. Even the focus of these changes (pvp “balancing”) makes the pvp feel unrewarding because it becomes a tug of war to see who can hit who first. Ive been trying to think of any thing possible i could do with this patch to keep me interested in it but nothing feels good anymore. The overwhelming reaction from the community gave me hope that they’d at least turn back a FEW changes… but seeing the devs post about actively ignoring us has disheartened me even more. Unfortunately this train wreck that i cant look away from is sadly not just a spectacle because i am invested in this train surviving.
i played every play test and i think the problem isnt the base stats its the awful rolls because back then the only change from common to unique was armour rating/wep dmg but then the rolls couldve been insane, 2/3 all you could roll 3 additional 3 true on same piece, etc, but with the current rolls i agree with you this is by far the worst patch ever and ive been thru every single bad patch but this one wins it all
Every class is now viable to play under 25 gearscore.
It's not perfect but it's a start.
Theyre headed in the right direction. They are fixing a major problem where time spent in game matters far more than skill. I've seen so many barbs miss over and over and over and over and get kited to hell and back just to land one achilles strike and and then hit someone once and they die while the barb is still half health because of gear diff. Gear needed to take a massive hit because it made the game unplayable for people that can't put in 80 hours a week into a video game
Also nerfing classes move speed and buffing a skill to give 45 ms is wild. It’s so weird
I have played for two years. I work a 40 hour a week job. I have never played a wipe since my first playtest that I wasn't able to build a kit with legendary gear with amazing rolls. Its not hard to get good gear and last patch made it so easy!
I dont think that the gear change would be that bad if i didnt get magical interaction speed on all my items
It'd be pretty easy for them to just add scaling to higher rarities base stats, which would make legendaries better than squire gear in every case, as it should be.
They are cooking something for the next wipe. Patience.
Nothing's changed about good gear. A crap legendary or epic was worth roughly the same amount as their vendor price, the exact same situation as now.
Now, you have a chance to find good sellable loot even if it's green/blue/epic. Gear is overall far more valuable now than it was in the previous patch.
Gear diff is a necessary evil for the game, rather than dragging the top players down to the same level we should allow more ways to express skill and with more depth to allow people to counter gear with skill. Fighting geared players should always be high risk- high reward, uphill battles are exciting.
you said it earlier yourself, fighting players who are much worse than you is extremely boring. That's what sub 25 lobbies are for people who don't want to farm gear. They want an even playing field where gear doesn't matter. But they also want an environment where the level of players isn't complete beginner. I don't agree with the patch, I'm just giving the perspective I've heard.
IM could’ve just removed all lobbies except sub-25 normals and saved themselves a lot of development time to get to this same state
Excellent video. They must revert the patch or suffer. The only point I slightly disagree with is at @9:00. I would pull several royal pieces of jewelry and maybe on or two legendary items as a rogue with locks and traps. Hitting pile then hitting golden/marvelous chests were cash
我是台灣人 我身邊的前輩們都因為這公司的許多很智障的事情都搞倒退坑了 我身邊的實況主夥伴們也因為這次的也說退坑了
我很遺憾 我從新手玩到現在 至少開台並且由玩這遊戲一年半了 這公司有無數次讓我想要退坑 但我很喜歡這遊戲
並且在台灣 製作了許多影片給大家 但直到今天 我沒有一次這麼憤怒且無奈
以前 可能會有剛開檔期 就回檔 又或是 遇到任務BUG洗錢 可能需要回檔
在今年 我平日5個小時 假日玩12小時 真的覺得很難過
我花了一個月時間 農了3把命名 2 SK 11把GK 這是我從0開始的資產
我努力了一個月時間 結果現在全部的裝備都變成一樣 我認為最糟糕的部分
是官方的態度 我真的覺得這官方態度讓我難以接受
我還是得說一件事情 不管誰玩這遊戲都一樣 官方不會管你會不會玩
他們只會想要做自己想做的 我只能希望各位 現在不要再玩dad了
如果人數掉下去 對官方來說沒有意義的話 那你們現在遊玩的時間都是在浪費時間
因為你並不知道 你對官方來說根本沒有意義 你花的時間 他們不用給你任何解釋的將其破壞掉
當然 也是對新手來說 這次改動無疑是很好的
但對我已經玩了至少3千小時的人來說 我心累了 太多次的回檔 太多次官方無視玩家的言論
我很可惜 我不是一個大主播 我沒有任何的影響力
如果我可以跟官方對話的話 我也一定會為玩家發聲
但可惜 我不是 希望 各位玩得開心
Gem Socket system.....this would be the perfect opportunity to put it in the game.
I think this is a pre-patch in preparation for gems. I believe items will all be the same and rarity will determine the number of sockets. Gems won't be limited so if you wanted only +health, you could stack +max hp gems in every socket. same with +damage. That is probably why the base stats are low because if you stack all +damage in gems AND high rarity items have high base damage, it'd be even more insane.
Behind this update, you can really see how arrogant and self-centered Sdf is. They pushed out such a drastic update without any prior testing or surveys (note that this game has a test server), and they just went ahead with the changes abruptly, without any buffer period. Honestly, even if they had given us a week to sort out our gear and rankings, it wouldn't have been so bad. I'm not saying that giving advance notice would have made the update better, but at least it would show some respect for the players, even if they don't have much sense. But now, they're acting like dictators, making decisions unilaterally without any regard for the players, constantly pushing our limits and wearing down our patience. I've really had enough. The worst game developer in history: Sdf.
sdf knows he is going to jail. he is trying to min max his dollars for his court case to try and not go to jail, but we will see in dec
I used to play dark and darker a lot. I haven't touched the game in at least 10 months. IMO the game was at its best in its early days when you could use skill to get really strong gear that actually mattered and allowed you to combine skill with power for an unmatched experience. But there's always been this trend in the game of higher tier gear getting scaled down. The gap between legendary and common has been shrinking for a long time. Then they added white lobbies and quests, and then it was like, "Why do I want to do all these super boring and tedious brainrot quests in a game where the PvE is totally devoid of stimulation and the reward system of the game got destroyed due to the incessant gear nerfs? Plus there are white lobbies now so I'll just do that instead of wasting my time on something that is now a meaningless grind." I think that's kind of the point where the game stopped being fun.
Sure I could have just kept playing white lobbies, but having to fight hordes of brainrot mobs just to maybe find another player who would inevitably just run away across the map while closing 500 doors that each take way longer to open than to close for some stupid reason all while putting up with dark and darker's troll metas like jump meta and menu meta just didn't seem all that appealing to me for some reason. I mean, if you're gonna play white lobbies for fair fights because gear stats are meaningless or because you don't believe in gear dif., go play mordhau, go play counter-strike. Play any PvP game other than freakin' dark and darker and skip all the bloat bullcrap. The only reason to even consider tolerating all that bloat is gear, and gear is gone now.
3v3 gobbo caves with insane gear, good drop rates, no gear score lobbies was maybe the most fun i have ever had in any video game ever and I'm old so I've played a lot lol. Got every class kitted and did lots of zero to heros.
There must be a saboteur in the house of ironmace
Nerfing HP base and on items was warranted it they wanna remove the gap between max gear and base. Which would've been fine if they only did that.
I feel like the complete opposite would've been great. Increased base stats on items with increased rarity as the core, remove random modifiers completely(or cap to 1 per item and make the roll range bigger for Higher rarities).
Combined with high drop chances from last patch that would be perfectly linear gear progression that everyone can achieve.
Wall of text inbound. I’m okay with a few of the changes. I think double max health and movespeed being removed was good. Pdr/health was a little too high on some classes especially if they had double ms boots, but the loot/health changes are just not it, 68 was great, the whole crew was wanting more after more raids and going down because it was fun to hunt purples/legendarys, there was other teams contesting it, and you could bring gear because if you lose it it was so easy to get geared up again. 69 just feels like a br. Every fight just feels dumb it’s either 1 or 2 shot somebody or get 1 or 2 shot, there’s rarely any opportunity for outplay/heals after getting windlassed for 80%, looting just feels like a huge waste of time unless it’s on a meta piece with at least 2+ rolls its worthless over free squire gear. My suggestion is revert barb buffs or at least tone them down so “they’re viable in trios” (still cancer in solos). Ranger/ranged damage needs to be looked at. Revert health changes, drop some classes by 6(barb fighter) rest by 3 if they feel it’s needed. I’m okay with gear being squished, but this was just too drastic. I’d like to see them try maybe 3 base on squire/greens, 4 on blue/purple, 4.5 or 5 on legendary/unique, let armor/mr/damage/health scale on items slightly so players in a full set of legendary/unique even if it’s shit rolls have a 1-2 hit advantage over mirror match in full blues, but relatively even playing field if the lower geared player has good rolls. A full bis person should have 3-4 hit advantage on someone who is in greens with crap rolls at least. I get trying to get rid of gear score ques but at this point they’re still needed. Just make 0-35 base gear lobbies, 35-200, and 200+ you’re just in hr at that point. Pull the people that are gear maxing in 180-199 kits into hr lobbies if it’s low pop/lobbies with people just at the 200 mark to get in.
I love it when my looter extraction game no longer requires looting or extracting. As a timmie I hate this current patch, the entire alure of the game which was getting good loot is gone. I don't like PvP, but being able to actually win an encounter is fun. In my opinion the bigger issue that plagues this game is pitting mechanically skilled players against those that aren't even close to being on the same skill level
This rivals the removal of free trade in runescape
This video perfectly sums up what I've been saying to my DaD friends. I'm a SSF player, I don't spend thousands on kits and go into goblin caves, I wanna loot up and find cool stuff. The dopamine of finding a good weapon early on in my "zero to hero" is completely gone.
Gear diffing is bad to some extent, but at a certain point the "skill" is knowing when and how to take a fight against a more geared player. They've made the game super arcadey and boring, it almost feels like the base game now is what arena was supposed to be.
People seem to forget that aquireing good gear is also a skill that takes game knowledge and practice..
patch 68 was peak dark and darker experience , then they fked it up SOOO hard. just why....
The gear difference still was big if you run gear worse than epic , but thats a problem with item rolls. It took them until this point to remove double movespeed and HP rolls on item....
I like the change of -15HP and the adjustemt of the rollls
But bro, i found my first unique , and if was like meh... only 1 agility on it , not worth it .
Things about the gear change, I like that my squire gear feels good to run. I can actually try out different builds without spending a bunch on a kit to find out it's shit but something needs to differentiate commons from legendary. if they want to keep base stats similar then let higher rarity roll higher stats
Unfortunately I don't think they'll go back to previous state of the game.
The boat has started sailing...
Thank you Repoze for being the voice of reason during IM's misguided times
A good idea would be if they just made something like the White a grey items give you 2 base stat gren and blue 3 epic and legendary 4 and uniques 5 doing that you want to scale from white to green and from green to blue just for a random atribute more
Honestly I really like those changes but I see some things they could do better and this patch really should stay in the oven:
-Increase basic stats only for legendaries/uniques (the moment when you kill the boss and you see that legendary dagger is worse than white dagger its a joke)
-Remove half stuff from squire, this will increease the value of weapon animations/basic item stats. (for example leave rogue with castillion dagger and barbarian with battle axe on squire)
-You can buy other items at the vendor and increase their price (rogue can buy rondel dagger and barbarian bardiche)
-add some new random stats (rolling buff duration or magic interaction sucks)
-Revert the barbarian buffs.
-fix laced turnshoe and lightfoot boots problem
and less important but also healthy things
-remove rat form
-give rogue normal crossbow
-remove grey and white because right now its pointless
-add more quests
-class balance changes
Gotta disagree on a few things, this patch still sucks ass tho
1: Old squire kits weren't exactly a good environment to play with zero gear as most classes need more knowledge to really play their class at the base level. Being able to use the all the songs I want as bard without gearing up is a massive positive with this update.
2: You absolutely could find 5+ legendaries every single normals run on ruins. Looting either ruins boss pile, plus mid pile on crypts, plus big chests/pile in inferno you will get 5 legendary items every single run. I was playing bard with blythar and wanderers luck (no luck pot) hunting boss drops/royal gems and this was my experience over many runs.
They need to take the squire kits down to old green/blue gear and still leave room for items to get better. Purple weapons vs common armor ontop of -15 hp to everyone is the dumbest shit ive seen this company do in a long time. Also remove the dogshit modifiers from items like memory capacity % and flat. Magic/Phys damage weapons should have their rolls split in 2 categories instead of rolling the same modifiers, just like bows currently do.
Game feels worse than when we had multiclassing honestly. Atleast there were some build disparity, now all you see is literally barbs and rangers in the feed. Entire HR lobbies 90% in squire gear.
seems to be mostly for testing purposes. I doubt iron mace even planned on keeping it
Gear diff is still an issue in squire lobbies, maybe more so. Cause some fighter/barb would get lucky, find a couple blues and wipe lobby. Feels like Fortnight.
The loot changes are a step in the wrong direction though, I wish we got sorc or monk instead.
if ur getting gear diffed in squire lobbies i have bad news for u...
Everything you said is my exact opinion on the matter,like I’ve been on discord ranting everything you said on this video and I’m actually new this wipe so part of me thought that I didn’t know what I was talking about.
Finally, they came out with a good patch to fix the gear gap! First good patch I've seen.
I think the idea of decreasing the gear gap was needed but this is obviously a bit much. And they went 0-100 on it. Why not make squire kit equal to green gear first and see how that goes.
Agree with everything you said. I wish you and other high end players are in some dev team meetings etc. :)
To changes:
I wish they make Normal lobbys available only up to 124 or 224 GS... everything above = only HR(+HR lobby log in without any gear limit "0+GS")