Thanks for watching guys, check out the accompanying article for this video here: armourersbench.com/2023/07/09/ukraines-improvised-anti-drone-minigun/
It's only a matter of time before purpose built drones for destroying enemy drones appear on the battlefield. Autonomous drones with pistol calibre weapons and sighting mechanisms and AI assistance for example, or EW pods to scramble the drones connection to it's user or to maybe hack it and take control. Cheap kamikaze drones for ramming and destroying other larger more expensive drones that loiter looking for targets....
Ukrainian drones should hang a long wire underneath them for attacks from above to entangle enemy drones, or hang fishing line with a small fishing weight underneath to entangle...
ok hear me out guys; tiny pneumatic air-canon, which fires a small weight with attached fishing-lines coated in something sticky to entangle the other copters blades.. a sort of pneumatic miniature bola for the propellers... mounted to fire downwards
@@AwesomeIan135 Why would you go that complex? You know how much lighter weight a .22 cartridge is than an air tank and valve assembly? MUCH lighter weight, and we are talking less than most coins in terms of cost.
1:50 to 2:25 I'm not a fan of fantasy genre, but the use of weighted nets to attack drones from above reminded me of stories of defeating dragons the same way.
i think different bout that. if the net has just some fabric fibre or is sturdy, it will just brake the props a bit which is enough to broing it down. the weight itself is just added for the reason, that the net is falling faster to the drone and is not affected too much with wind. they fly maybe above 100m and there allways much more wind. i you fly a quad you may remeber how a few weed sticks grass gras or little branches can stop one prop and you have to walk a bit.
Like many other people I fly drones as well as other RC Aircraft. We have for many years had "dogfights" or "combat" with our planes. The idea being to ram the other plane and cause it to crash. An unsuspecting quadcopter has no chance in such combat with flyingwings that have pusher props or EDF" jets" powering them through the air. If you want to cheaply bring these things down use fixed wing planes to ram the Quads. It doesn't hurt to also pull a streamer behind the plane to foul their props. The streamer is attached to easily pull away from the plane once it has fouled the prop of the drone. One of these FPV flying wings can be built for far less money than any of the quadcopter drones including the FPV drones. Depending on how far you need to fly you can build them for less the $100 US. Each (Expendable) Basically you are flying a reusable air to air missile for less than $100. If all you want to do is get rid of a drone flying over your position, this could easily do the job as long as there is a proficient pilot flying it. No runway needed just hand launch. When you get good enough you can fly it back and catch it if it survives, (it should survive easily). I have the same FPV plane that has been through hell and back that I have used in the past.
Planes have two disadvantages: you need to be a skilled pilot, unlike with a Mavic, and if you are a skilled pilot, a quadcopter is more flexible. You really figure it would be easy to knock a small object out of the air with a fixed wing? I find FPV quads are far more maneuverable. Re: price, an FPV fixed wing is not $100. You can get a full manual fixed wing kit for that price. There really are FPV quads around $100, on the other hand. I think surveying the area and locating enemy drones would be much easier from an FPV drone than a fixed wing in constant forward motion. You can't even move particularly slowly without stalling. There's a reason fixed wing racing has huge gates in comparison to FPV racing.
@@geometerfpv2804 Get FPV has SonicModell AR wing kit for 54.99 right now for people that for some reason can't build these from scratch with a piece of foam board. There are easy to locate plans if you need them on places like RC groups. Quads need 3 to 4 times more parts than a flying wing and once weighted down with a weapon they won't fly like a race quad anymore. A hovering drone like a Mavic is an easy target. If you can't see something like that. It is just unfortunate for you. I have hit other fixed wings head on and recovered and kept flying. Break or tangle just one prop on a quad and it will crash. Especially if it is overloaded. You seem to think that because I would use a simple flying wing against a drone that I know nothing about your quads. I have probably been building them longer than you have been flying. I still have my first Phantom FC40 with prop guads. My first "race" quad was an immersion RC vortex with the folding arms. I even have some parts left from it too. Did you ever think the huge gates in fixed wing racing has something to do with the fact that they have wings that need to fit through the gates? I embrace all forms of flight. I see the disadvantages of quads as well as their obvious advantages too. For some reason you seem to think quads are better at everything and they simply are not. Lancet drones have been wearing out Ukrainian equipment and they are fixed wing drones. More than half of the FPV racequad attacks miss their intended targets. We never see all the misses from either side.
Very cool. I was thinking of next gen engineering ideas and if seems you’ve got some exp with some good solutions/ideas. Guys like us should be the design idea guys for drone companies 🍻🚀🎯💥
@paulking7019 Totally agree. If you ever want to stage a demonstration or try iterating the design of such an Air-Superiority wing, I'm totally down. I grew up cutting, building and flying combat wings, and have a fair bit of experience with FPV fixed-wing combat, among other hats that I wear.
It reminds me first military use of aircrafts.First used just for reconnaissance then pilot use their revolvers and other makeshift solutions to attack enemy.Then fighters planes emerge for air to air attack.
A downward facing porcupine rig on a drone would be very effective. Not only would it easily mess the propellers of the enemy drone up but also keep a bit of distance from the attacking drone. As well as increasing survivability of the attacking drone during landing or falling.
Agreed, even just q couple of 6" pegs similar to landing legs would do the job. Also some rotor guards like you see on the ones made for little kids may prevent some of the losses from top attacks
@@jblob5764 Still easy to make work. Use coat-hanger wire to give it a bit of extra reach, and then use some light monofilament fishing line intended to break off from the snare line as a means of attaching it.
I can only assume, stronger materials and protective design will be incorporated into blades and engine supports in future military drones. Very interesting stuff.
I guess military drones are already a lot tougher. Remember those are cheap off the shelf enthusiast drones. Toyota didn't make their Pickups bullet proof just because they did great in a war. Same applies here.
@cyan_oxy6734 indeed it does go down to cost for sure, even if it's the savings of a $1,200 drone versus a $2,000 drone, it's not a lot of savings but I guess it is cheaper alternative to metal or composite blades/ structures ect ect.
@@sodincThats a bad idea it increases weight and reduces effency of the rotors there requiring a bigger battery that increases weight even more. The smart idea would be to add a camera on top of a drone with a wide lense.
That costs money. These are consumer drones. Ninety-nine percent of these drones being sold are to schools, children, and peaceful enthusiasts. They won't be making modifications to try and sell more to people using them to blow people up.
Great video. It makes me wonder what developments we will see in drone air to air armaments before this war is over. Also in strengthening and defences against aerial attack. I wonder how long till we get the first air to air drone ace.
@@jintsuubest9331 mount a semi-automatic .410 shotgun with larger size shot. Lower recoil, but you don't have to ram the other drone to take it out. Just get within 10 meters or so.
I am an FPV pilot. I fly racing drones like the one demonstrated in this video attacking the slow DJI. That is the next level of this drone game, and the pieces are already in place.
Drone racing is going to be the next weaponized skill, for good reason too some of these drones are hitting 80-100mph and are extremely small you could fly down a trench marking location with basically 0 chance of failure
I'm not sure why they want FPV drones, mavics seem better. The flight time is so short. You've got a vast sky. You need to locate the enemy in. Plus, FPV flight requires tons of training to do well, whereas a Mavic is point-and-shoot.
@@geometerfpv2804 100% agree that drones are so much easier to operate than flying a quadcopter. They require a minimal amount of training. The disadvantage to them is that they are slow. Just in the past year or so the hobbyist has been able to achieve 30 minute flight times with large quad copters. That is with lithium ion batteries. And achievable flight times of 15 minutes on lithium polymer, the motors have become very efficient, as well as the software for energy management. It’s all super interesting and happens too fast for me to keep up with 😵💫😄 Sorry for the long comment/reply. It is really for the non-FPV guys, I know you are one of the initiated. 😉👍
I also feel like the psychological warfare surrounding small personal drones is understated. Imagine hearing them buzz around above you, having no idea if it’s about to drop a grenade on your head or lead an artillery strike to rain down on you. The sound alone would be terror.
I imagine that it wont be long before they figure out how to mount a firearm with detachable magazine onto the drone. The more professional drones can handle the weight. The question is whether it can handle the blowback.
I don't see the advantage versus a simple net made out of a few crossed yarns with fishing weights. You are adding a whole lot of complexity and points of failure to gain destructive power that is complete overkill (versus an incredibly easy to damage drone).
Now this would be a game changer if you had pilots that could fly in acro mode. For those who don’t know, it’s like the “freestyle” or “acrobatic” drone flying mode.
As a professional drone pilot back in America safe in my warm bed (for now; until we look like Ukraine soon), this is absolutely amazing; especially with the military aviation history aspect.... but it is also utterly terrifying.
Interesting. I imagine that if ramming continues to be a preferred anti drone tactic we'll see adaptations to facilitate or protect against ramming, maybe a cage or shroud around the rotor to protect it or a steel or aluminum plate on the bottom to protect the drone from the opposing rotors
One good way to defend against ramming from above could be to mount long, thin prongs and antennas on the top of the drone. Ramming drone drops onto the prongs, gets its propellers absolutely skewered, and down it goes. Easy to make, and next to no added weight needed.
so eye opening seing these fight i saw drones drop grenades many times but this made me realize the rhyming of history with early aviation i always found it crude that they dripped handgrenades but never thought the same about drones
I would have thought that the easiest weapon to mount would be an airgun. Similar or the same as a paintball gun only firing metal bbs. Wouldn't weigh much and depending upon the amount of shots carried and how much pressure would define the air tank size. Could soon have a hunter killer drone very quickly.
From the start of the drone warfare era, I always thought it was like the use of aircraft in WW1. I wonder how long it will be before drones are built specifically to hunt down the enemy with minimal input from humans and can survive the encounter.
Me too. All the nice cinematic videos that could've been done with them... It's also disturbing to see the exact same GUI besides the same drone in a war which I use for just making videos and having fun. Soon, the FPV pros will have a high income on battlefield.
@@ones_flow5652 yeah, definitely. I would love to see those drones much more rather in hands of some kids, or other people, who can't afford a drone and want one. Such a waste of a lot of money during this worthless war.
Propellers might spoil that. perhaps fish eye cameras on top of the drones are a solution. Or a combination. The other factor is effect on useful battery life.
The problem would be recoil, you would be hard-pressed to get a good firing solution on the enemy and you could shoot yourself out of the sky With larger drones this makes sense, but with a DJI not much
@@jevinliu4658 Anti air drones could ditch the quadcopter design and go back to the old WW2 formula of fighter aircraft, where the thrust of the engine would largely mitigate the issue of recoil. The wings would also be great for ramming attacks. Just my 2 cents. I'm no expert.
@@arifchowdhury881 You could, but that would mean making a whole new drone instead of adapting capabilities to existing quadcopters in service This is a different question, which I don't doubt will work but might not be as readily available.
Interesting. When the airplane first went into military service it was used for just recon. The first air battle was in WWI when the photographer in a recon plane decided to pull out a handgun and shoot at an enemy recon plane flying close by. Almost seems like that is happening again here.
One technique that could be useful is putting a cage on the drones to mitigate the threat to the props. A lot of civilian drone fighting competitions use this.
I wonder if a "barrage balloon" type technique could be employed as well? A weak "breakaway link" on the attacking drone with a few meters of fishing line and a weight hanging from that.
Why does it look so funny when the drones are fighting each other? Lol 😂
Рік тому+8
Thank you for this Video. I was expecting such a development. Just like in WW1. I am a bit surprised that after over a year, we still havnt seen the deployment of dedicated hunter drones for drone on drone combat. Seems to me that a drone with some kind of short ranged weapon against other drones could be an important assat. Maybe drone on drone isnt such a big topic in Ukraine an only rarly occures and because of that there havnt been dedicated devlopments in that field.
I've been waiting for an anti-drone drone to arrive ever since drones first started to be serious nuisances in the civilian world. I'm sure there are research teams working on this idea, and it is only a matter of time.
It would cost 100,000 dollars per unit, and can only attack small drones. While the bigger military drones can get away unharmed. Yeah, very good investment.
@DonVetto-vx9dd Although I believe a $20K anti-drone drone would be feasible, a $100k anti-drone would still be amazingly cost effective if it had a high enough kill rate. You don't have to save many million dollar armored vehicles or keep very many military maneuvers secret to make that price tag start looking really cheap.
I was recalling the battle bot's stick method and possibly a thermite drone just popping thermite onto the receiving drone. could set off batteries, I suppose.
One could use a mirror at 45 degrees in front of the camera to spot drones overhead. Positioned such that only half the camera’s forward vision is blocked.
They need to add remote firing zip guns that can fire 12g or 20g bird shot. It cant be difficult to make a simple short pipe shotgun like device thats remote control that could be fired when an enemy drone tries to ram it.
Something to note is in the net clip, the net never spread out like it may have been intended, and by the lack of this tactic showing up everywhere it just doesn’t seem like a practical thing to do because of this. I think maybe it would be more effective to have a small device that releases some strong ribbons or strings to jam up the rotors of an enemy drone, which would also suck suck said debris in.
Yes should have mentioned that directly, it basically hits it like a blunt projectile and perhaps tangles a little. Some refinement will be needed to get the jet to fan out but definitely not see any videos of similar since.
So I'm tracking the small number of SB 600s which are kind of an analogue but I don't think Ukraine have a drone of the Lancet's size yet. Lots of smaller FPV drones though. I'll have to do a Switchblade update anyway.
Eventually this crude type of attack will be replaced by electronic attacks. These drones are doing a lot of communicating so blocking or causing static on certain frequencies could take it out. Or blocking it's ability to use GPS to know its position. Or finding a way to infect it's programming with viruses that can be activated like a zero day exploit. Essentially doing what the Navy's Intruder aircraft did to clear the way for fighters.
The nets a good idea, but instead of something that just drops. It should be a light net like a fishing net, and have a canister to deploy from on a spring mechanism. Small weights can be on edge of netting and is ejected outward causing net to spread on deployment. Snare up the propellers, and the drone should just drop from the sky. Would work best from above the drone.
Very interesting development, the intelligence drones provide is unprecedented so it's only logical to see increased focus on denying your adversary that capability. I'm curious to see how this evolves, instead of nets you could drop multiple weighted strips of some durable material to get caught in the propellers but i could also imagine purpose made drone hunter drones that feature structures on the bottom that can be easily replaced as a sacrificial piece for ramming attacks.
You could stick an rc plane engine and generator on to supply better range and dwell time, reduce the battery size to compensate. Stick poles underneath so you don't need to contact the body, put upward facing cameras or other sensors to detect threats above.
Seems like fabricating a kind of wire cage attached beneath the drone to protect it on an offensive dive attack would be worthwhile and improve survivability quite a bit. For that matter, might as well put one on top too, sandwiching the rotors to protect them from an attack from above. Think like the protective cage on an airboat. Wouldn't have to be anything to heavy, just enough thin metal rod to give the most fragile parts a little more protection.
Solution put a ir motion sensor or microwave motion sensor on top of the drone to detect other drones even within just 25 to 50meters will greatly help the drone pilot
It sounds like every new drone put out in the field needs to be sporting some sharp edges near the bottom so it can easily cut the rotors off a drone by a simple touch
Some lengths of light chain-pull should be dropped from above, to tangle the rotors of the enemy drone. It would be very easy to have multiple lengths for the purpose on a single drone, as they weigh almost nothing.
Before it even happened I was thinking of dropping a great big mess of monofilament fishing line onto the one below! Then something drops right on the drone below it just like I was thinking!
wonder what the smallest possible mechanism you can build to make a shotgun shell fire is. Like a cap you could put on the end to fire it. Have the drone drop the entire mechanism and then fire when its released so the recoil wont go into the drone.
Best to come from above/rear-6 o'clock position/flank-4 or 8 o'clock position than below because of the dual camera locations. Develop a canister to spray/jet stream highly concentrated hydrochloric/sulphuric acids and also with black/dark dyes for aiming purposes during the day and luminous dyes for night ops targeting the opponent's drones. Acid canister should have a minimum of 100-150ml if possible in a glass vial... and a range of 1.2 metres using the high pressure nozzle.
The counter tech would be really fun to design and test!! I’d assume most next gen drones will have a motion detecting 360 dome cam on top with a warning system etc. and maybe an automated response mode that chooses one of several flight patterns that keeps primary camera on target with auto targeting but while mode is on takes an unpredictable flight pattern to make the attacking drone unable to execute. Sure, if it’s a next gen drone also it’ll have counter measures but this is always the game. I’m not an engineer but I love coming up with ideas for engineering and design. And the net drop attempt from the Russians.., while an ok idea was an absolutely terrible implementation. Needs to be folded in a zigzag (ya, you’d think Russians would think of this with their z insignia..but maybe zigzag isn’t spelled with z’s in russian haha) and have all corners come together under spring tension. Corners are weighted but is countered by the net material having a few tiny sails or wings (think parachute for hang glider) maybe a few in thick and only 2 or 4 that cross in the middle of net to create some drag to keep shape. The weighted corners will give it good downward directional speed and the loft from the sails will keep shape.. sure maybe a little too fancy but the individual parts are 3 or 4. Net, weights, spring and maybe a mech that holds it together for mounting.
They need to mount a piece of forward or downward aiming pipe with a shot gun shell loaded in it, Fire a spring loaded fireing pin and p[epper enemy drons with buck shot
I would wager thst hanging sone chains from the base of a done wpuld be highly effective at knocking out the adversaries drone while increasing the chances of survival for the carrier drone.
Indian fighting Kites can fly at considerable heights and come with tiny glass shards glued to the ending line that can effectively slice and destroy stuff. These things can cost cents to make - they just need the right wind and a bit of practice.
How about dangling a very sticky string or cord into the rotors of the target drone ? The rotor would wind the sticky string around its blades and after an appropriate pull on the sticky string it would be released the rotor would be ruined with no effect on the drone above it ! What do you think ?
I saw this being a thing when the F22 was first built, it's down tuned because the human body can't handle the possible G's so it's only a matter of time before thats all that in the air is drones.
My take from this is that most of these drones could have been saved with simple, cheap prop guards. I'm also surprised that it took this long for custom FPV drones to be used to ram more expensive drones out of the sky, you could even reinforce the propellers so the cheap drone can survive and hit multiple targets in one flight.
I'm surprised they're sacrificing the whole drone in some of these examples. One of those heavy leader lines used for fishing could be designed to break off an attacking drone and should be effective at snaring a prop. On a quad-copter, losing a prop is more or less game over. It's probably as simple as rigging something to stick out of the bottom with a wire coat hanger, a piece of thinner break-away filament, and a heavier leader with a couple of weights on it.
They aren't, the drone attacking from above survives. The props of the drone below are very easy to break. In the case of the matrice, it has huge props and motors, and so it did destroy the drone attacking from above, but they sacrificed a small hobby drone to kill a huge industrial expensive drone.
Thanks for watching guys, check out the accompanying article for this video here: armourersbench.com/2023/07/09/ukraines-improvised-anti-drone-minigun/
It's only a matter of time before purpose built drones for destroying enemy drones appear on the battlefield.
Autonomous drones with pistol calibre weapons and sighting mechanisms and AI assistance for example, or EW pods to scramble the drones connection to it's user or to maybe hack it and take control.
Cheap kamikaze drones for ramming and destroying other larger more expensive drones that loiter looking for targets....
Ukrainian drones should hang a long wire underneath them for attacks from above to entangle enemy drones, or hang fishing line with a small fishing weight underneath to entangle...
@@hurtfixer_ So long as there's some kind of automatic release mechanism after entanglement otherwise both drones still go down...
It is weird when you realize that these commercial drones on both sides are probably made in the same factory.
China: We have zero morals
literally tiananmen square
And the same intelligence officer in the country of manufacture has screens running with both feeds.
probably consecutive serial numbers
They are... Dji in china..................
My heart goes out to the Drones Family 😢😊
🤔
Many brave drones have sacrificed their lives so that other drones can live in peace and freedom. RIP Drones
O no !
The Russians leave their drones on the ground to rot!
Maybe a batterytree will sprout at best
Awireisallittakes
Rest in Pieces 🙏
I approve of drone vs drone warfare atleast no one dies.
But later dies those who have no intel.
@@UserUser-kz4fqit’s intel for artillery missions too though.
Until they unite against their real enemy.....
Until one side has no more drones...
Always fun to see battletech fans in the wild
ok hear me out guys; tiny pneumatic air-canon, which fires a small weight with attached fishing-lines coated in something sticky to entangle the other copters blades.. a sort of pneumatic miniature bola for the propellers... mounted to fire downwards
Not the most outlandish idea!
Mirroring early Russian attempts at fighting during WW1
Pavashot with Roborounds.
Wait there has gotta be some super small/compact gas powered rifle that could be attached to a drone right?
@@AwesomeIan135 Why would you go that complex? You know how much lighter weight a .22 cartridge is than an air tank and valve assembly? MUCH lighter weight, and we are talking less than most coins in terms of cost.
1:50 to 2:25 I'm not a fan of fantasy genre, but the use of weighted nets to attack drones from above reminded me of stories of defeating dragons the same way.
i think different bout that. if the net has just some fabric fibre or is sturdy, it will just brake the props a bit which is enough to broing it down. the weight itself is just added for the reason, that the net is falling faster to the drone and is not affected too much with wind. they fly maybe above 100m and there allways much more wind.
i you fly a quad you may remeber how a few weed sticks grass gras or little branches can stop one prop and you have to walk a bit.
Not quite anything so spectacular, more like they stole it from Drone Fighting stuff done by kids, and Battle Bots from Comedy Central.
@@crisnmaryfam7344 n0t qUiTe aNytHiNg sO sPecTacUlaR 🤡
Like many other people I fly drones as well as other RC Aircraft. We have for many years had "dogfights" or "combat" with our planes. The idea being to ram the other plane and cause it to crash. An unsuspecting quadcopter has no chance in such combat with flyingwings that have pusher props or EDF" jets" powering them through the air. If you want to cheaply bring these things down use fixed wing planes to ram the Quads. It doesn't hurt to also pull a streamer behind the plane to foul their props. The streamer is attached to easily pull away from the plane once it has fouled the prop of the drone. One of these FPV flying wings can be built for far less money than any of the quadcopter drones including the FPV drones. Depending on how far you need to fly you can build them for less the $100 US. Each (Expendable) Basically you are flying a reusable air to air missile for less than $100. If all you want to do is get rid of a drone flying over your position, this could easily do the job as long as there is a proficient pilot flying it. No runway needed just hand launch. When you get good enough you can fly it back and catch it if it survives, (it should survive easily). I have the same FPV plane that has been through hell and back that I have used in the past.
Planes have two disadvantages: you need to be a skilled pilot, unlike with a Mavic, and if you are a skilled pilot, a quadcopter is more flexible. You really figure it would be easy to knock a small object out of the air with a fixed wing? I find FPV quads are far more maneuverable. Re: price, an FPV fixed wing is not $100. You can get a full manual fixed wing kit for that price. There really are FPV quads around $100, on the other hand. I think surveying the area and locating enemy drones would be much easier from an FPV drone than a fixed wing in constant forward motion. You can't even move particularly slowly without stalling. There's a reason fixed wing racing has huge gates in comparison to FPV racing.
I think I watched something like that in the Rotor Riot channel
@@geometerfpv2804 Get FPV has SonicModell AR wing kit for 54.99 right now for people that for some reason can't build these from scratch with a piece of foam board. There are easy to locate plans if you need them on places like RC groups. Quads need 3 to 4 times more parts than a flying wing and once weighted down with a weapon they won't fly like a race quad anymore.
A hovering drone like a Mavic is an easy target. If you can't see something like that. It is just unfortunate for you. I have hit other fixed wings head on and recovered and kept flying. Break or tangle just one prop on a quad and it will crash. Especially if it is overloaded.
You seem to think that because I would use a simple flying wing against a drone that I know nothing about your quads. I have probably been building them longer than you have been flying. I still have my first Phantom FC40 with prop guads. My first "race" quad was an immersion RC vortex with the folding arms. I even have some parts left from it too.
Did you ever think the huge gates in fixed wing racing has something to do with the fact that they have wings that need to fit through the gates? I embrace all forms of flight. I see the disadvantages of quads as well as their obvious advantages too. For some reason you seem to think quads are better at everything and they simply are not. Lancet drones have been wearing out Ukrainian equipment and they are fixed wing drones. More than half of the FPV racequad attacks miss their intended targets. We never see all the misses from either side.
Very cool. I was thinking of next gen engineering ideas and if seems you’ve got some exp with some good solutions/ideas. Guys like us should be the design idea guys for drone companies 🍻🚀🎯💥
@paulking7019 Totally agree. If you ever want to stage a demonstration or try iterating the design of such an Air-Superiority wing, I'm totally down. I grew up cutting, building and flying combat wings, and have a fair bit of experience with FPV fixed-wing combat, among other hats that I wear.
It reminds me first military use of aircrafts.First used just for reconnaissance then pilot use their revolvers and other makeshift solutions to attack enemy.Then fighters planes emerge for air to air attack.
A downward facing porcupine rig on a drone would be very effective. Not only would it easily mess the propellers of the enemy drone up but also keep a bit of distance from the attacking drone. As well as increasing survivability of the attacking drone during landing or falling.
Agreed, even just q couple of 6" pegs similar to landing legs would do the job.
Also some rotor guards like you see on the ones made for little kids may prevent some of the losses from top attacks
or just trail some line weighted with fishing sinkers, should be enough to stop a rotor.
@@andrewcarr3650 but then you lose your drone when it gets tangled and they both fall unless you had a really heavy lift drone
@@jblob5764 Still easy to make work. Use coat-hanger wire to give it a bit of extra reach, and then use some light monofilament fishing line intended to break off from the snare line as a means of attaching it.
In before they start arming these to shoot shotgun shells at each other
What a time to be alive
+5 social credit score
it fucking sucks lol odds are we'll all see war and this is now a fundamental aspect of it.. meatgrinder
I can only assume, stronger materials and protective design will be incorporated into blades and engine supports in future military drones. Very interesting stuff.
I guess military drones are already a lot tougher. Remember those are cheap off the shelf enthusiast drones.
Toyota didn't make their Pickups bullet proof just because they did great in a war. Same applies here.
@cyan_oxy6734 indeed it does go down to cost for sure, even if it's the savings of a $1,200 drone versus a $2,000 drone, it's not a lot of savings but I guess it is cheaper alternative to metal or composite blades/ structures ect ect.
i expect protective rings above and around the rotors
@@sodincThats a bad idea it increases weight and reduces effency of the rotors there requiring a bigger battery that increases weight even more. The smart idea would be to add a camera on top of a drone with a wide lense.
That costs money. These are consumer drones. Ninety-nine percent of these drones being sold are to schools, children, and peaceful enthusiasts. They won't be making modifications to try and sell more to people using them to blow people up.
Great video. It makes me wonder what developments we will see in drone air to air armaments before this war is over. Also in strengthening and defences against aerial attack.
I wonder how long till we get the first air to air drone ace.
Thank you, thanks for watching!
None. Gun based solution is too heavy and also not cost effective for many target. Missile based solution is too too tooooo expensive.
@@jintsuubest9331 .410 shotgun.
@@BrettBaker-uk4te
???
@@jintsuubest9331 mount a semi-automatic .410 shotgun with larger size shot. Lower recoil, but you don't have to ram the other drone to take it out. Just get within 10 meters or so.
I am an FPV pilot. I fly racing drones like the one demonstrated in this video attacking the slow DJI. That is the next level of this drone game, and the pieces are already in place.
Quick reflexes for racing drones.
@@whoisme678 I hate seeing a hobby I have enjoyed so much for a decade be used for such purposes. 😕
Drone racing is going to be the next weaponized skill, for good reason too some of these drones are hitting 80-100mph and are extremely small you could fly down a trench marking location with basically 0 chance of failure
I'm not sure why they want FPV drones, mavics seem better. The flight time is so short. You've got a vast sky. You need to locate the enemy in. Plus, FPV flight requires tons of training to do well, whereas a Mavic is point-and-shoot.
@@geometerfpv2804 100% agree that drones are so much easier to operate than flying a quadcopter. They require a minimal amount of training.
The disadvantage to them is that they are slow. Just in the past year or so the hobbyist has been able to achieve 30 minute flight times with large quad copters. That is with lithium ion batteries. And achievable flight times of 15 minutes on lithium polymer, the motors have become very efficient, as well as the software for energy management. It’s all super interesting and happens too fast for me to keep up with 😵💫😄
Sorry for the long comment/reply. It is really for the non-FPV guys, I know you are one of the initiated. 😉👍
I also feel like the psychological warfare surrounding small personal drones is understated. Imagine hearing them buzz around above you, having no idea if it’s about to drop a grenade on your head or lead an artillery strike to rain down on you. The sound alone would be terror.
I'd be down to do that out there. I've been flying fpv drones for years.
What's stopping you then?
pilots can still be attacked its really scary
I imagine that it wont be long before they figure out how to mount a firearm with detachable magazine onto the drone. The more professional drones can handle the weight. The question is whether it can handle the blowback.
Since you don't have to worry about the user you can put a very aggressive muzzle brake to reduce the recoil and solve it that way.
Laser guns ❤
Something light duty like a .410 shotgun, or even a pistol round with the larger "rat shot" would be doable. Simple solenoid trigger.
Yeah seems like a very likely a potential next step for sure, it's already been played with. Thanks for watching!
I don't see the advantage versus a simple net made out of a few crossed yarns with fishing weights.
You are adding a whole lot of complexity and points of failure to gain destructive power that is complete overkill (versus an incredibly easy to damage drone).
Now this would be a game changer if you had pilots that could fly in acro mode. For those who don’t know, it’s like the “freestyle” or “acrobatic” drone flying mode.
Both sides use acro drone as well
Fantastic footage of the future of aviation over the battlefront . Just amazing . Canada .
Great video very interesting we'll be curious to see how the next generation of drones fight each other
As a professional drone pilot back in America safe in my warm bed (for now; until we look like Ukraine soon), this is absolutely amazing; especially with the military aviation history aspect.... but it is also utterly terrifying.
I know. It's difficult to adjust to...
Interesting. I imagine that if ramming continues to be a preferred anti drone tactic we'll see adaptations to facilitate or protect against ramming, maybe a cage or shroud around the rotor to protect it or a steel or aluminum plate on the bottom to protect the drone from the opposing rotors
Or perhaps a top/wider fov camera and maybe a microphone to allow for better detection of enemy drones.
One good way to defend against ramming from above could be to mount long, thin prongs and antennas on the top of the drone. Ramming drone drops onto the prongs, gets its propellers absolutely skewered, and down it goes. Easy to make, and next to no added weight needed.
so eye opening seing these fight
i saw drones drop grenades many times
but this made me realize the rhyming of history with early aviation
i always found it crude that they dripped handgrenades
but never thought the same about drones
I would have thought that the easiest weapon to mount would be an airgun. Similar or the same as a paintball gun only firing metal bbs.
Wouldn't weigh much and depending upon the amount of shots carried and how much pressure would define the air tank size.
Could soon have a hunter killer drone very quickly.
My thoughts went to a detachable metal chain. I also like the fiberglass rod suggested by another comment; could be used as defense as well.
Perhaps a .22 machine gun will be the next step in the Evolution of the hunterdrone (best in a remote controled modell of a Fokker E 1)🤔
From the start of the drone warfare era, I always thought it was like the use of aircraft in WW1. I wonder how long it will be before drones are built specifically to hunt down the enemy with minimal input from humans and can survive the encounter.
So it's like Battle Bots - but aerial version
As a drone lover, especially dji fanboy, this video crushes my heart to pieces just like those falling Mavics.
Me too. All the nice cinematic videos that could've been done with them...
It's also disturbing to see the exact same GUI besides the same drone in a war which I use for just making videos and having fun.
Soon, the FPV pros will have a high income on battlefield.
@@ones_flow5652 yeah, definitely. I would love to see those drones much more rather in hands of some kids, or other people, who can't afford a drone and want one. Such a waste of a lot of money during this worthless war.
Upward facing ultrasonic range finder could alert the target.
Either just warn the pilot and/or trigger evasive manouvers.
Propellers might spoil that. perhaps fish eye cameras on top of the drones are a solution. Or a combination. The other factor is effect on useful battery life.
@@BandOfHarjaps Can add them to a thin vertical pole maybe, between the rotors at the center
So how long until we get drones with drum-fed SMG's attached to them?
Seems a potential next step for sure, it's already been played with. Thanks for watching!
The problem would be recoil, you would be hard-pressed to get a good firing solution on the enemy and you could shoot yourself out of the sky
With larger drones this makes sense, but with a DJI not much
@@jevinliu4658 Anti air drones could ditch the quadcopter design and go back to the old WW2 formula of fighter aircraft, where the thrust of the engine would largely mitigate the issue of recoil. The wings would also be great for ramming attacks.
Just my 2 cents. I'm no expert.
@@arifchowdhury881 You could, but that would mean making a whole new drone instead of adapting capabilities to existing quadcopters in service
This is a different question, which I don't doubt will work but might not be as readily available.
@@jevinliu4658*RC planes enters the chat*
Interesting. When the airplane first went into military service it was used for just recon. The first air battle was in WWI when the photographer in a recon plane decided to pull out a handgun and shoot at an enemy recon plane flying close by. Almost seems like that is happening again here.
What about going above it and spraying aerosol glue on it. Some kind of sticky liquid?
I like it.
Napalm is a sticky glue. And flamethrower drones already exist. Make diy napalm from styrofoam.
One technique that could be useful is putting a cage on the drones to mitigate the threat to the props. A lot of civilian drone fighting competitions use this.
Drastically reduces flight time, though
Both defensive and offensive options that add weight make them worse at flight time, and therefore observation.
it is too heavy and creates resistance. The best defense is attack~!
Holy shit drone cope cage
I wanted to say that 😭@@deltap6967
Imagine a future _Battlefield_ or _Call of Duty_ mission or multiplayer featuring drone versus drone dogfighting gameplay.
Didn't the Battlefield games have drones or am I wrong?
*drone hitbox missing*
I wonder if a "barrage balloon" type technique could be employed as well? A weak "breakaway link" on the attacking drone with a few meters of fishing line and a weight hanging from that.
Why does it look so funny when the drones are fighting each other? Lol 😂
Thank you for this Video. I was expecting such a development. Just like in WW1. I am a bit surprised that after over a year, we still havnt seen the deployment of dedicated hunter drones for drone on drone combat. Seems to me that a drone with some kind of short ranged weapon against other drones could be an important assat.
Maybe drone on drone isnt such a big topic in Ukraine an only rarly occures and because of that there havnt been dedicated devlopments in that field.
I could see why too they are flying thousands on both sides everyday
I've been waiting for an anti-drone drone to arrive ever since drones first started to be serious nuisances in the civilian world. I'm sure there are research teams working on this idea, and it is only a matter of time.
It would cost 100,000 dollars per unit, and can only attack small drones. While the bigger military drones can get away unharmed. Yeah, very good investment.
@DonVetto-vx9dd Although I believe a $20K anti-drone drone would be feasible, a $100k anti-drone would still be amazingly cost effective if it had a high enough kill rate. You don't have to save many million dollar armored vehicles or keep very many military maneuvers secret to make that price tag start looking really cheap.
Wouldn't it be a better tactic be to follow the drone back to the operator?
is like watching two kitties fight. Except this is actual war. Very strange
I was recalling the battle bot's stick method and possibly a thermite drone just popping thermite onto the receiving drone. could set off batteries, I suppose.
Drone dogfighting happened in my lifetime. Amazing.
One could use a mirror at 45 degrees in front of the camera to spot drones overhead. Positioned such that only half the camera’s forward vision is blocked.
They need to add remote firing zip guns that can fire 12g or 20g bird shot. It cant be difficult to make a simple short pipe shotgun like device thats remote control that could be fired when an enemy drone tries to ram it.
Something to note is in the net clip, the net never spread out like it may have been intended, and by the lack of this tactic showing up everywhere it just doesn’t seem like a practical thing to do because of this.
I think maybe it would be more effective to have a small device that releases some strong ribbons or strings to jam up the rotors of an enemy drone, which would also suck suck said debris in.
Yes should have mentioned that directly, it basically hits it like a blunt projectile and perhaps tangles a little. Some refinement will be needed to get the jet to fan out but definitely not see any videos of similar since.
@@TheArmourersBench hey i would like to ask, does Ukraine have a equivalent to Russian lancet drones?, and could you do a update on switchblade 300
So I'm tracking the small number of SB 600s which are kind of an analogue but I don't think Ukraine have a drone of the Lancet's size yet. Lots of smaller FPV drones though. I'll have to do a Switchblade update anyway.
Eventually this crude type of attack will be replaced by electronic attacks. These drones are doing a lot of communicating so blocking or causing static on certain frequencies could take it out. Or blocking it's ability to use GPS to know its position. Or finding a way to infect it's programming with viruses that can be activated like a zero day exploit. Essentially doing what the Navy's Intruder aircraft did to clear the way for fighters.
The nets a good idea, but instead of something that just drops. It should be a light net like a fishing net, and have a canister to deploy from on a spring mechanism. Small weights can be on edge of netting and is ejected outward causing net to spread on deployment. Snare up the propellers, and the drone should just drop from the sky. Would work best from above the drone.
Right, a spring to deploy and spread the net. Good thinking
I don't know why but these videos are kinda funny
They approach each other like 2 fish about to fight 😂
Very interesting development, the intelligence drones provide is unprecedented so it's only logical to see increased focus on denying your adversary that capability.
I'm curious to see how this evolves, instead of nets you could drop multiple weighted strips of some durable material to get caught in the propellers but i could also imagine purpose made drone hunter drones that feature structures on the bottom that can be easily replaced as a sacrificial piece for ramming attacks.
A cheap sensor on top of a drone that can detect drones attempting to ram it activating a program which does evasive maneuvers (could be taped on)
dji becoming a weapon manufactureer in the past few years is insane
Next step seems to be strapping a 22 of some sort on to them. Maybe a co2 BB gun could work also.
They both can put camera / other senzor above to scan for enemy presence.. or incoming thing falling on them
You could stick an rc plane engine and generator on to supply better range and dwell time, reduce the battery size to compensate. Stick poles underneath so you don't need to contact the body, put upward facing cameras or other sensors to detect threats above.
WW1 airpower evolution all over again is really interesting.
Dangle weighted fishing lines and capture the drones by the motors
We need this to be a series.
Seems like fabricating a kind of wire cage attached beneath the drone to protect it on an offensive dive attack would be worthwhile and improve survivability quite a bit.
For that matter, might as well put one on top too, sandwiching the rotors to protect them from an attack from above. Think like the protective cage on an airboat. Wouldn't have to be anything to heavy, just enough thin metal rod to give the most fragile parts a little more protection.
I once saw a cartoon years ago,where two drone pull out knives and handguns to fight with.
I imagine something like "Battle of the heroes" playing while these drones fight against each other
You would think someone would have added an upward facing camera by now to see thec"hun in the sun".
Trailing chords with either grenades or hooks at the end might give a drone the ability to capture or destroy enemy drones.possible
Solution put a ir motion sensor or microwave motion sensor on top of the drone to detect other drones even within just 25 to 50meters will greatly help the drone pilot
It sounds like every new drone put out in the field needs to be sporting some sharp edges near the bottom so it can easily cut the rotors off a drone by a simple touch
Some lengths of light chain-pull should be dropped from above, to tangle the rotors of the enemy drone. It would be very easy to have multiple lengths for the purpose on a single drone, as they weigh almost nothing.
I was thinking .22 short , open bolt, short barrel and of course as light as possible. Aiming directly downwards.
This is some real BO2 shit
Next step in evolution: Protecting blades with a frame + equip drones with miniature guns and 360° camera.
simple fix, put the rotor bumpers on. maybe a cage of wire around the bumper. they weigh next to nothing, and will protect the rotors...
Before it even happened I was thinking of dropping a great big mess of monofilament fishing line onto the one below! Then something drops right on the drone below it just like I was thinking!
Thank you!
wonder what the smallest possible mechanism you can build to make a shotgun shell fire is. Like a cap you could put on the end to fire it. Have the drone drop the entire mechanism and then fire when its released so the recoil wont go into the drone.
the fact niether side has the crash bars to prevent rotor contact is beyond me
imagine a armed drone with some sort of .22 weapon designed to hunt down enemy drones
Best to come from above/rear-6 o'clock position/flank-4 or 8 o'clock position than below because of the dual camera locations.
Develop a canister to spray/jet stream highly concentrated hydrochloric/sulphuric acids and also with black/dark dyes for aiming purposes during the day and luminous dyes for night ops targeting the opponent's drones.
Acid canister should have a minimum of 100-150ml if possible in a glass vial... and a range of 1.2 metres using the high pressure nozzle.
Can cluster bomb sub munitions be removed from the main bomb and used individually if they could be carried by say a Mavick....
Yes, I believe they can. I believe that's one of the reasons Ukraine requested them.
That already a thing. Ukrainians strip old soviet AT cluster bombs for PTAB-2.5M HEAT submunition to use against vehicles.
The counter tech would be really fun to design and test!! I’d assume most next gen drones will have a motion detecting 360 dome cam on top with a warning system etc. and maybe an automated response mode that chooses one of several flight patterns that keeps primary camera on target with auto targeting but while mode is on takes an unpredictable flight pattern to make the attacking drone unable to execute. Sure, if it’s a next gen drone also it’ll have counter measures but this is always the game. I’m not an engineer but I love coming up with ideas for engineering and design.
And the net drop attempt from the Russians.., while an ok idea was an absolutely terrible implementation. Needs to be folded in a zigzag (ya, you’d think Russians would think of this with their z insignia..but maybe zigzag isn’t spelled with z’s in russian haha) and have all corners come together under spring tension. Corners are weighted but is countered by the net material having a few tiny sails or wings (think parachute for hang glider) maybe a few in thick and only 2 or 4 that cross in the middle of net to create some drag to keep shape. The weighted corners will give it good downward directional speed and the loft from the sails will keep shape.. sure maybe a little too fancy but the individual parts are 3 or 4. Net, weights, spring and maybe a mech that holds it together for mounting.
They need to mount a piece of forward or downward aiming pipe with a shot gun shell loaded in it, Fire a spring loaded fireing pin and p[epper enemy drons with buck shot
For some reason my eyes think that in the drone war at 03:06, the lower drone is coming up to ram the higher drone. Just an optical illusion I guess.
As a drone pilot I feel like carrying some light fishing line and a two weights can be easily used to drop on a drone and stop them
I would wager thst hanging sone chains from the base of a done wpuld be highly effective at knocking out the adversaries drone while increasing the chances of survival for the carrier drone.
I personally think we should start arming military drones with extremely small caliber projectiles. I’m talking 380. Or 25 acp type of small
It strikes me that stand-off attacks would be relatively easy using a small attack module that could be retrofitted to any drone.
at the start was that a 40mm with 3D printed fin-stack on it?
Yes it was. Very popular munition and design combo.
@@TheArmourersBench If I recall correctly, those were first used by ISIS and Iraqi security forces.
The drones need a little cattle bolt they can use on eachother.
1:49 the drone above doesn’t move as the picture doesn’t move
Indian fighting Kites can fly at considerable heights and come with tiny glass shards glued to the ending line that can effectively slice and destroy stuff. These things can cost cents to make - they just need the right wind and a bit of practice.
With the upward facing proximity detectors, can the sensitivity be turned up to help evade this kind of attack?
They need some of those air cannon with Nets inside or even a remote control shotgun with birdshot😊
Something based on Taser would make sense. No capacitors needed, just the CO2 launched darts, trailing wires and laser dot aiming.
Bruh. This revolutionise the drone dogfight. One day mounted they'll a gun to drones.
How about dangling a very sticky string or cord into the rotors of the target drone ? The rotor would wind the sticky string around its blades and after an appropriate pull on the sticky string it would be released the rotor would be ruined with no effect on the drone above it !
What do you think ?
You don't need sticky. Just fishing line would do.
I saw this being a thing when the F22 was first built, it's down tuned because the human body can't handle the possible G's so it's only a matter of time before thats all that in the air is drones.
Wow. I never would have imagined such a thing.
By the end of the years we'll have dogfights...
...with those Black Mirror robodogs
Racing drones are really capable of this
Very interesting.
Glad you think so! Thanks for watching
The identification and the approach look like something AI could do well.
They got to have air to air payloads like some bird shot and a camera above it
My take from this is that most of these drones could have been saved with simple, cheap prop guards.
I'm also surprised that it took this long for custom FPV drones to be used to ram more expensive drones out of the sky, you could even reinforce the propellers so the cheap drone can survive and hit multiple targets in one flight.
fascinating - great video!
Thank you!
They’re going to love the new air 3
I'm surprised they're sacrificing the whole drone in some of these examples. One of those heavy leader lines used for fishing could be designed to break off an attacking drone and should be effective at snaring a prop. On a quad-copter, losing a prop is more or less game over. It's probably as simple as rigging something to stick out of the bottom with a wire coat hanger, a piece of thinner break-away filament, and a heavier leader with a couple of weights on it.
They aren't, the drone attacking from above survives. The props of the drone below are very easy to break.
In the case of the matrice, it has huge props and motors, and so it did destroy the drone attacking from above, but they sacrificed a small hobby drone to kill a huge industrial expensive drone.