Ukraine: Drone Dogfights
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- Опубліковано 27 вер 2024
- One of the most interesting aspects of the drone warfare being conducted in Ukraine is the emergence of drone vs drone dogfighting.
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Thanks for watching guys, check out the accompanying article for this video here: armourersbench.com/2023/07/09/ukraines-improvised-anti-drone-minigun/
It's only a matter of time before purpose built drones for destroying enemy drones appear on the battlefield.
Autonomous drones with pistol calibre weapons and sighting mechanisms and AI assistance for example, or EW pods to scramble the drones connection to it's user or to maybe hack it and take control.
Cheap kamikaze drones for ramming and destroying other larger more expensive drones that loiter looking for targets....
Ukrainian drones should hang a long wire underneath them for attacks from above to entangle enemy drones, or hang fishing line with a small fishing weight underneath to entangle...
@@hurtfixer_ So long as there's some kind of automatic release mechanism after entanglement otherwise both drones still go down...
It is weird when you realize that these commercial drones on both sides are probably made in the same factory.
China: We have zero morals
literally tiananmen square
And the same intelligence officer in the country of manufacture has screens running with both feeds.
probably consecutive serial numbers
They are... Dji in china..................
My heart goes out to the Drones Family 😢😊
🤔
Many brave drones have sacrificed their lives so that other drones can live in peace and freedom. RIP Drones
O no !
The Russians leave their drones on the ground to rot!
Maybe a batterytree will sprout at best
Awireisallittakes
Rest in Pieces 🙏
I approve of drone vs drone warfare atleast no one dies.
But later dies those who have no intel.
@@UserUser-kz4fqit’s intel for artillery missions too though.
Until they unite against their real enemy.....
Until one side has no more drones...
Always fun to see battletech fans in the wild
Like many other people I fly drones as well as other RC Aircraft. We have for many years had "dogfights" or "combat" with our planes. The idea being to ram the other plane and cause it to crash. An unsuspecting quadcopter has no chance in such combat with flyingwings that have pusher props or EDF" jets" powering them through the air. If you want to cheaply bring these things down use fixed wing planes to ram the Quads. It doesn't hurt to also pull a streamer behind the plane to foul their props. The streamer is attached to easily pull away from the plane once it has fouled the prop of the drone. One of these FPV flying wings can be built for far less money than any of the quadcopter drones including the FPV drones. Depending on how far you need to fly you can build them for less the $100 US. Each (Expendable) Basically you are flying a reusable air to air missile for less than $100. If all you want to do is get rid of a drone flying over your position, this could easily do the job as long as there is a proficient pilot flying it. No runway needed just hand launch. When you get good enough you can fly it back and catch it if it survives, (it should survive easily). I have the same FPV plane that has been through hell and back that I have used in the past.
Planes have two disadvantages: you need to be a skilled pilot, unlike with a Mavic, and if you are a skilled pilot, a quadcopter is more flexible. You really figure it would be easy to knock a small object out of the air with a fixed wing? I find FPV quads are far more maneuverable. Re: price, an FPV fixed wing is not $100. You can get a full manual fixed wing kit for that price. There really are FPV quads around $100, on the other hand. I think surveying the area and locating enemy drones would be much easier from an FPV drone than a fixed wing in constant forward motion. You can't even move particularly slowly without stalling. There's a reason fixed wing racing has huge gates in comparison to FPV racing.
I think I watched something like that in the Rotor Riot channel
@@geometerfpv2804 Get FPV has SonicModell AR wing kit for 54.99 right now for people that for some reason can't build these from scratch with a piece of foam board. There are easy to locate plans if you need them on places like RC groups. Quads need 3 to 4 times more parts than a flying wing and once weighted down with a weapon they won't fly like a race quad anymore.
A hovering drone like a Mavic is an easy target. If you can't see something like that. It is just unfortunate for you. I have hit other fixed wings head on and recovered and kept flying. Break or tangle just one prop on a quad and it will crash. Especially if it is overloaded.
You seem to think that because I would use a simple flying wing against a drone that I know nothing about your quads. I have probably been building them longer than you have been flying. I still have my first Phantom FC40 with prop guads. My first "race" quad was an immersion RC vortex with the folding arms. I even have some parts left from it too.
Did you ever think the huge gates in fixed wing racing has something to do with the fact that they have wings that need to fit through the gates? I embrace all forms of flight. I see the disadvantages of quads as well as their obvious advantages too. For some reason you seem to think quads are better at everything and they simply are not. Lancet drones have been wearing out Ukrainian equipment and they are fixed wing drones. More than half of the FPV racequad attacks miss their intended targets. We never see all the misses from either side.
Very cool. I was thinking of next gen engineering ideas and if seems you’ve got some exp with some good solutions/ideas. Guys like us should be the design idea guys for drone companies 🍻🚀🎯💥
@paulking7019 Totally agree. If you ever want to stage a demonstration or try iterating the design of such an Air-Superiority wing, I'm totally down. I grew up cutting, building and flying combat wings, and have a fair bit of experience with FPV fixed-wing combat, among other hats that I wear.
ok hear me out guys; tiny pneumatic air-canon, which fires a small weight with attached fishing-lines coated in something sticky to entangle the other copters blades.. a sort of pneumatic miniature bola for the propellers... mounted to fire downwards
Not the most outlandish idea!
Mirroring early Russian attempts at fighting during WW1
Pavashot with Roborounds.
Wait there has gotta be some super small/compact gas powered rifle that could be attached to a drone right?
@@AwesomeIan135 Why would you go that complex? You know how much lighter weight a .22 cartridge is than an air tank and valve assembly? MUCH lighter weight, and we are talking less than most coins in terms of cost.
1:50 to 2:25 I'm not a fan of fantasy genre, but the use of weighted nets to attack drones from above reminded me of stories of defeating dragons the same way.
i think different bout that. if the net has just some fabric fibre or is sturdy, it will just brake the props a bit which is enough to broing it down. the weight itself is just added for the reason, that the net is falling faster to the drone and is not affected too much with wind. they fly maybe above 100m and there allways much more wind.
i you fly a quad you may remeber how a few weed sticks grass gras or little branches can stop one prop and you have to walk a bit.
Not quite anything so spectacular, more like they stole it from Drone Fighting stuff done by kids, and Battle Bots from Comedy Central.
@@crisnmaryfam7344 n0t qUiTe aNytHiNg sO sPecTacUlaR 🤡
What a time to be alive
+5 social credit score
it fucking sucks lol odds are we'll all see war and this is now a fundamental aspect of it.. meatgrinder
I can only assume, stronger materials and protective design will be incorporated into blades and engine supports in future military drones. Very interesting stuff.
I guess military drones are already a lot tougher. Remember those are cheap off the shelf enthusiast drones.
Toyota didn't make their Pickups bullet proof just because they did great in a war. Same applies here.
@cyan_oxy6734 indeed it does go down to cost for sure, even if it's the savings of a $1,200 drone versus a $2,000 drone, it's not a lot of savings but I guess it is cheaper alternative to metal or composite blades/ structures ect ect.
i expect protective rings above and around the rotors
@@sodincThats a bad idea it increases weight and reduces effency of the rotors there requiring a bigger battery that increases weight even more. The smart idea would be to add a camera on top of a drone with a wide lense.
That costs money. These are consumer drones. Ninety-nine percent of these drones being sold are to schools, children, and peaceful enthusiasts. They won't be making modifications to try and sell more to people using them to blow people up.
A downward facing porcupine rig on a drone would be very effective. Not only would it easily mess the propellers of the enemy drone up but also keep a bit of distance from the attacking drone. As well as increasing survivability of the attacking drone during landing or falling.
Agreed, even just q couple of 6" pegs similar to landing legs would do the job.
Also some rotor guards like you see on the ones made for little kids may prevent some of the losses from top attacks
or just trail some line weighted with fishing sinkers, should be enough to stop a rotor.
@@andrewcarr3650 but then you lose your drone when it gets tangled and they both fall unless you had a really heavy lift drone
@@jblob5764 Still easy to make work. Use coat-hanger wire to give it a bit of extra reach, and then use some light monofilament fishing line intended to break off from the snare line as a means of attaching it.
In before they start arming these to shoot shotgun shells at each other
I am an FPV pilot. I fly racing drones like the one demonstrated in this video attacking the slow DJI. That is the next level of this drone game, and the pieces are already in place.
Quick reflexes for racing drones.
@@whoisme678 I hate seeing a hobby I have enjoyed so much for a decade be used for such purposes. 😕
Drone racing is going to be the next weaponized skill, for good reason too some of these drones are hitting 80-100mph and are extremely small you could fly down a trench marking location with basically 0 chance of failure
I'm not sure why they want FPV drones, mavics seem better. The flight time is so short. You've got a vast sky. You need to locate the enemy in. Plus, FPV flight requires tons of training to do well, whereas a Mavic is point-and-shoot.
@@geometerfpv2804 100% agree that drones are so much easier to operate than flying a quadcopter. They require a minimal amount of training.
The disadvantage to them is that they are slow. Just in the past year or so the hobbyist has been able to achieve 30 minute flight times with large quad copters. That is with lithium ion batteries. And achievable flight times of 15 minutes on lithium polymer, the motors have become very efficient, as well as the software for energy management. It’s all super interesting and happens too fast for me to keep up with 😵💫😄
Sorry for the long comment/reply. It is really for the non-FPV guys, I know you are one of the initiated. 😉👍
It reminds me first military use of aircrafts.First used just for reconnaissance then pilot use their revolvers and other makeshift solutions to attack enemy.Then fighters planes emerge for air to air attack.
I also feel like the psychological warfare surrounding small personal drones is understated. Imagine hearing them buzz around above you, having no idea if it’s about to drop a grenade on your head or lead an artillery strike to rain down on you. The sound alone would be terror.
Great video. It makes me wonder what developments we will see in drone air to air armaments before this war is over. Also in strengthening and defences against aerial attack.
I wonder how long till we get the first air to air drone ace.
Thank you, thanks for watching!
None. Gun based solution is too heavy and also not cost effective for many target. Missile based solution is too too tooooo expensive.
@@jintsuubest9331 .410 shotgun.
@@BrettBaker-uk4te
???
@@jintsuubest9331 mount a semi-automatic .410 shotgun with larger size shot. Lower recoil, but you don't have to ram the other drone to take it out. Just get within 10 meters or so.
Now this would be a game changer if you had pilots that could fly in acro mode. For those who don’t know, it’s like the “freestyle” or “acrobatic” drone flying mode.
Both sides use acro drone as well
Fantastic footage of the future of aviation over the battlefront . Just amazing . Canada .
I imagine that it wont be long before they figure out how to mount a firearm with detachable magazine onto the drone. The more professional drones can handle the weight. The question is whether it can handle the blowback.
Since you don't have to worry about the user you can put a very aggressive muzzle brake to reduce the recoil and solve it that way.
Laser guns ❤
Something light duty like a .410 shotgun, or even a pistol round with the larger "rat shot" would be doable. Simple solenoid trigger.
Yeah seems like a very likely a potential next step for sure, it's already been played with. Thanks for watching!
I don't see the advantage versus a simple net made out of a few crossed yarns with fishing weights.
You are adding a whole lot of complexity and points of failure to gain destructive power that is complete overkill (versus an incredibly easy to damage drone).
Drone dogfighting happened in my lifetime. Amazing.
is like watching two kitties fight. Except this is actual war. Very strange
Interesting. I imagine that if ramming continues to be a preferred anti drone tactic we'll see adaptations to facilitate or protect against ramming, maybe a cage or shroud around the rotor to protect it or a steel or aluminum plate on the bottom to protect the drone from the opposing rotors
Or perhaps a top/wider fov camera and maybe a microphone to allow for better detection of enemy drones.
One good way to defend against ramming from above could be to mount long, thin prongs and antennas on the top of the drone. Ramming drone drops onto the prongs, gets its propellers absolutely skewered, and down it goes. Easy to make, and next to no added weight needed.
Imagine a future _Battlefield_ or _Call of Duty_ mission or multiplayer featuring drone versus drone dogfighting gameplay.
Didn't the Battlefield games have drones or am I wrong?
*drone hitbox missing*
Dangle weighted fishing lines and capture the drones by the motors
So how long until we get drones with drum-fed SMG's attached to them?
Seems a potential next step for sure, it's already been played with. Thanks for watching!
The problem would be recoil, you would be hard-pressed to get a good firing solution on the enemy and you could shoot yourself out of the sky
With larger drones this makes sense, but with a DJI not much
@@jevinliu4658 Anti air drones could ditch the quadcopter design and go back to the old WW2 formula of fighter aircraft, where the thrust of the engine would largely mitigate the issue of recoil. The wings would also be great for ramming attacks.
Just my 2 cents. I'm no expert.
@@arifchowdhury881 You could, but that would mean making a whole new drone instead of adapting capabilities to existing quadcopters in service
This is a different question, which I don't doubt will work but might not be as readily available.
@@jevinliu4658*RC planes enters the chat*
Interesting. When the airplane first went into military service it was used for just recon. The first air battle was in WWI when the photographer in a recon plane decided to pull out a handgun and shoot at an enemy recon plane flying close by. Almost seems like that is happening again here.
One technique that could be useful is putting a cage on the drones to mitigate the threat to the props. A lot of civilian drone fighting competitions use this.
Drastically reduces flight time, though
Both defensive and offensive options that add weight make them worse at flight time, and therefore observation.
it is too heavy and creates resistance. The best defense is attack~!
Holy shit drone cope cage
I don't know why but these videos are kinda funny
They approach each other like 2 fish about to fight 😂
Great video very interesting we'll be curious to see how the next generation of drones fight each other
Next step in evolution: Protecting blades with a frame + equip drones with miniature guns and 360° camera.
From the start of the drone warfare era, I always thought it was like the use of aircraft in WW1. I wonder how long it will be before drones are built specifically to hunt down the enemy with minimal input from humans and can survive the encounter.
As a drone lover, especially dji fanboy, this video crushes my heart to pieces just like those falling Mavics.
Me too. All the nice cinematic videos that could've been done with them...
It's also disturbing to see the exact same GUI besides the same drone in a war which I use for just making videos and having fun.
Soon, the FPV pros will have a high income on battlefield.
@@ones_flow5652 yeah, definitely. I would love to see those drones much more rather in hands of some kids, or other people, who can't afford a drone and want one. Such a waste of a lot of money during this worthless war.
What about going above it and spraying aerosol glue on it. Some kind of sticky liquid?
I like it.
Napalm is a sticky glue. And flamethrower drones already exist. Make diy napalm from styrofoam.
They need to add remote firing zip guns that can fire 12g or 20g bird shot. It cant be difficult to make a simple short pipe shotgun like device thats remote control that could be fired when an enemy drone tries to ram it.
I once saw a cartoon years ago,where two drone pull out knives and handguns to fight with.
I was recalling the battle bot's stick method and possibly a thermite drone just popping thermite onto the receiving drone. could set off batteries, I suppose.
Why does it look so funny when the drones are fighting each other? Lol 😂
Racing drones are really capable of this
Thank you for this Video. I was expecting such a development. Just like in WW1. I am a bit surprised that after over a year, we still havnt seen the deployment of dedicated hunter drones for drone on drone combat. Seems to me that a drone with some kind of short ranged weapon against other drones could be an important assat.
Maybe drone on drone isnt such a big topic in Ukraine an only rarly occures and because of that there havnt been dedicated devlopments in that field.
I could see why too they are flying thousands on both sides everyday
I've been waiting for an anti-drone drone to arrive ever since drones first started to be serious nuisances in the civilian world. I'm sure there are research teams working on this idea, and it is only a matter of time.
It would cost 100,000 dollars per unit, and can only attack small drones. While the bigger military drones can get away unharmed. Yeah, very good investment.
@DonVetto-vx9dd Although I believe a $20K anti-drone drone would be feasible, a $100k anti-drone would still be amazingly cost effective if it had a high enough kill rate. You don't have to save many million dollar armored vehicles or keep very many military maneuvers secret to make that price tag start looking really cheap.
It’s like watching robotic insects fight
WW1 airpower evolution all over again is really interesting.
The nets a good idea, but instead of something that just drops. It should be a light net like a fishing net, and have a canister to deploy from on a spring mechanism. Small weights can be on edge of netting and is ejected outward causing net to spread on deployment. Snare up the propellers, and the drone should just drop from the sky. Would work best from above the drone.
Right, a spring to deploy and spread the net. Good thinking
So it's like Battle Bots - but aerial version
Forget the pistol or shotgun! Just ram them out of the sky.
DJI care's team is punching the air rn
Next step seems to be strapping a 22 of some sort on to them. Maybe a co2 BB gun could work also.
I wonder if a "barrage balloon" type technique could be employed as well? A weak "breakaway link" on the attacking drone with a few meters of fishing line and a weight hanging from that.
Seems like fabricating a kind of wire cage attached beneath the drone to protect it on an offensive dive attack would be worthwhile and improve survivability quite a bit.
For that matter, might as well put one on top too, sandwiching the rotors to protect them from an attack from above. Think like the protective cage on an airboat. Wouldn't have to be anything to heavy, just enough thin metal rod to give the most fragile parts a little more protection.
I personally think we should start arming military drones with extremely small caliber projectiles. I’m talking 380. Or 25 acp type of small
Solution put a ir motion sensor or microwave motion sensor on top of the drone to detect other drones even within just 25 to 50meters will greatly help the drone pilot
A cheap sensor on top of a drone that can detect drones attempting to ram it activating a program which does evasive maneuvers (could be taped on)
Imagine if it was an fpv drone. That could be crazy🎉.
Trailing chords with either grenades or hooks at the end might give a drone the ability to capture or destroy enemy drones.possible
Bruh. This revolutionise the drone dogfight. One day mounted they'll a gun to drones.
Very interesting development, the intelligence drones provide is unprecedented so it's only logical to see increased focus on denying your adversary that capability.
I'm curious to see how this evolves, instead of nets you could drop multiple weighted strips of some durable material to get caught in the propellers but i could also imagine purpose made drone hunter drones that feature structures on the bottom that can be easily replaced as a sacrificial piece for ramming attacks.
Funny how, as technology advances, we keep coming full circle back to combat methods that were used with old tech.
We need this to be a series.
I would wager thst hanging sone chains from the base of a done wpuld be highly effective at knocking out the adversaries drone while increasing the chances of survival for the carrier drone.
They need to mount a piece of forward or downward aiming pipe with a shot gun shell loaded in it, Fire a spring loaded fireing pin and p[epper enemy drons with buck shot
It sounds like every new drone put out in the field needs to be sporting some sharp edges near the bottom so it can easily cut the rotors off a drone by a simple touch
The obvious solution is to have upward facing camera's on military drones. Job done.
the fact niether side has the crash bars to prevent rotor contact is beyond me
The horror of drone on drone violence, will someone please think of the children.
This very much reminds me of a 1977 film called 'Sky pirates'...
Very interesting.
Glad you think so! Thanks for watching
I imagine something like "Battle of the heroes" playing while these drones fight against each other
They’re going to love the new air 3
One could use a mirror at 45 degrees in front of the camera to spot drones overhead. Positioned such that only half the camera’s forward vision is blocked.
The drones need a little cattle bolt they can use on eachother.
A year later and Ukraine has fully realized this ambition.
Something to note is in the net clip, the net never spread out like it may have been intended, and by the lack of this tactic showing up everywhere it just doesn’t seem like a practical thing to do because of this.
I think maybe it would be more effective to have a small device that releases some strong ribbons or strings to jam up the rotors of an enemy drone, which would also suck suck said debris in.
Yes should have mentioned that directly, it basically hits it like a blunt projectile and perhaps tangles a little. Some refinement will be needed to get the jet to fan out but definitely not see any videos of similar since.
@@TheArmourersBench hey i would like to ask, does Ukraine have a equivalent to Russian lancet drones?, and could you do a update on switchblade 300
So I'm tracking the small number of SB 600s which are kind of an analogue but I don't think Ukraine have a drone of the Lancet's size yet. Lots of smaller FPV drones though. I'll have to do a Switchblade update anyway.
"ramming sounds so midevil, nothing a mini gun can't fix.
You could stick an rc plane engine and generator on to supply better range and dwell time, reduce the battery size to compensate. Stick poles underneath so you don't need to contact the body, put upward facing cameras or other sensors to detect threats above.
As much as I dislike DJI, it’s hard not admire them
Some lengths of light chain-pull should be dropped from above, to tangle the rotors of the enemy drone. It would be very easy to have multiple lengths for the purpose on a single drone, as they weigh almost nothing.
Drones should carry a lightweight chicken wire hanging down to tangle the props of the other drone.
As a drone pilot I feel like carrying some light fishing line and a two weights can be easily used to drop on a drone and stop them
Daisy needs to create a fully automoatic drone BB gun. Daisy goes to war and this time not in some kids backyard
Can cluster bomb sub munitions be removed from the main bomb and used individually if they could be carried by say a Mavick....
Yes, I believe they can. I believe that's one of the reasons Ukraine requested them.
That already a thing. Ukrainians strip old soviet AT cluster bombs for PTAB-2.5M HEAT submunition to use against vehicles.
I was thinking .22 short , open bolt, short barrel and of course as light as possible. Aiming directly downwards.
Mavics and Matrices quickly becoming the new Toyota Hilux's of modern warfare. Meanwhile DJI making 💸💸💸
This is some real BO2 shit
Can you imagine how dangerous it would be hovering in a helicopter over Ukraine? You best keep that thing moving.
We want to see drone equipt with SAW, 240 Bravo, MARK19, AT4...
After losing a few drones like this I'd have upgraded them with baskets around the propellers, lose some flight time, added safety.
geniusses at work...........i like it Boyzz
I only see one drone being the aggressor and the other just watching …
that is the spring counter offensive guys
Best to come from above/rear-6 o'clock position/flank-4 or 8 o'clock position than below because of the dual camera locations.
Develop a canister to spray/jet stream highly concentrated hydrochloric/sulphuric acids and also with black/dark dyes for aiming purposes during the day and luminous dyes for night ops targeting the opponent's drones.
Acid canister should have a minimum of 100-150ml if possible in a glass vial... and a range of 1.2 metres using the high pressure nozzle.
hmm.. maybe a light automatic shotgun fitted to a drone is the next step, a Matrice carrying a 6 shot custom 410 shotgun with short barrel..
I have about 30 FPV quadcopters and camera drones over my shoulder as I write this.
All of them ,save 1, subject to new laws for operation, beginning in September. The one gets a pass as it's under 250g.
They're not subject to new laws due to their potential as weaponized platforms, after learning the potential in Ukraine, Fukushima terror incidents, no...
The new rules should help Amazon and Google drones from bumping into each other, though.
Oh, good.
Drone manufacturers will love this
For some reason my eyes think that in the drone war at 03:06, the lower drone is coming up to ram the higher drone. Just an optical illusion I guess.
This vid made my drones start to tremble. My micro drones are flat out shaking.
Meanwhile Autel cant get their act together.
Wow. I never would have imagined such a thing.
Yeah it’s all fun and games until the losing drone operator has artillery fire coming down
Before it even happened I was thinking of dropping a great big mess of monofilament fishing line onto the one below! Then something drops right on the drone below it just like I was thinking!
Thank you!
Most perilous walk of shame ever.
ha in most of these kills, the drone that gets hit doesn't move at all for a long period of time. very realistic.
I don't think quadcopter actually gets destroyed.
Once it's recover it, it can be easily repaired.
The counter tech would be really fun to design and test!! I’d assume most next gen drones will have a motion detecting 360 dome cam on top with a warning system etc. and maybe an automated response mode that chooses one of several flight patterns that keeps primary camera on target with auto targeting but while mode is on takes an unpredictable flight pattern to make the attacking drone unable to execute. Sure, if it’s a next gen drone also it’ll have counter measures but this is always the game. I’m not an engineer but I love coming up with ideas for engineering and design.
And the net drop attempt from the Russians.., while an ok idea was an absolutely terrible implementation. Needs to be folded in a zigzag (ya, you’d think Russians would think of this with their z insignia..but maybe zigzag isn’t spelled with z’s in russian haha) and have all corners come together under spring tension. Corners are weighted but is countered by the net material having a few tiny sails or wings (think parachute for hang glider) maybe a few in thick and only 2 or 4 that cross in the middle of net to create some drag to keep shape. The weighted corners will give it good downward directional speed and the loft from the sails will keep shape.. sure maybe a little too fancy but the individual parts are 3 or 4. Net, weights, spring and maybe a mech that holds it together for mounting.