Hello Phil, It was absolutely wonderful to see knowledge being offered on the net, without the need to pay significant amounts of money for the privilege. and I take my hat off to you. I am English by birth, but live in Australia, and am 86 years of age. you have a great day now young Phil, and keep up all your great work. Allan.
Very clever I have seen so many clever ideas since I've begun to consider keeping bee's even if I never do it's given enough to occupy my mind for a year or two thank you.
Fascinating. I love seeing all these variations. Seems like a waste of wood, but I like the flexibility. My reaction to 5 quads stacked was, "well that's going to blow over unless you have a strap", but I have to put a strap on my normal hives if there are in windy locations. I follow your progress with interest. (p.s. 13:44 Title Text Here )
Love at 4:06 about 50 of the bees are like where is Phil going with our frame and follow straight after you. Got to love bees, do like this as a user of Warre sizing and having multi compatibility gives much needed flexibility. I think we have reached a point where langstroth, national, rose, warre, top bar all work but the ability to not have to limit yourself to one kind of hive is something I like a lot.
Okay.. Watched pt2 and all is clear thanks. Your final comment over there about the four small colonies working together to fill a full frame box on top sounds like a good idea, but the bees from each column will all have different smells and fight won't they?
Phil. like your quadratic hive, very similar to others i have seen on the british national. Basically, the 4 compartments, divided up from a national works well as its about right in size to provide a big enough colony in terms of comb surface area for spring and summer mating and flows that come and go, but as i have seen, you might struggle to overwinter on a single box and i am sure you have two or three high to allow sufficient stores to overwinter successfully?. I also like very much the insulated cover you have made for each feeder. i have the same problem in the spring, when my strong overwintered nucs need feeding so i make a similar reflective foil blanket, it works really well. once the syrup is warm, they keep on taking it up. I also like your use of metal used in the building trade, to make the frames. we use the Mini- Plus system here because their frames fit exactly on our 6 framed nucs and we use their frames for spring build up on other nucs, the break them dow in to with feed or brood, like you say. Overall your system would work well for you and the key is you have to have a system that allows flexibility. Whether its Quadratic, Mini Plus, or other makes, you have to be universal in your equipment, otherwise it becomes so complicated. I use brood factories as finishers too. Its the key to sustainability!
Brother Adam used National hives divided into four as mating hives, so yes, this is not new. However, as you will see in future videos, the Quadratic hive is much more versatile, as it can be used both vertically (like a mini Warré) and horizontally (in groups of four, with entrances facing mutually at right angles), as a mating nuc and a mini-nuc (typically two boxes - I have over-wintered colonies on two boxes), as well as migrating bees upwards or downwards as shown above. The principal advantage for me over the half-National frame is that the Quadratic frame can be fitted inside the frame of ANY other standard hive, or hung under the top bar of a horizontal TBH or a Warré - in fact I claim that it is THE MOST VERSATILE HIVE IN THE WORLD!
I used to keep bees a long time ago and I've not seen the white bits at the ends of the frames before. Are they spacers to give extra depth for the cells and also lessen the amount of glue to stick the frame ends to the box? Nice video and well spoken with NO music. Bless you.
I have some half size Dadant frames that were used by Brother Adam at Buckfast Abbey, who used them in his queen rearing, but his mating hives were made to take half National frames. These frames are made to my own design, but they would be perhaps one third of the width of a Dadant super frame. The interior of the Quadratic hive is 190mm each way, by 150mm deep. This enables it to take exactly 5 frames at 38mm spacing, since 5x38=190. In fact, the white spacers are more like 37mm, so there is a little play room, which makes it easier to remove the frames.
With all empty comb for the queen to lay and full of nurse bees, how will they make royal jelly to feed the larva without any beebread or pollen stores?
Mr Chandler I've got a question. I'm told I shouldn't take splits from a first year colony but if I buy an extra queen and take just a handful of bees might it be possible with one of these quadratic hives? How fast can they build up? I'm worried about them surviving the winter it's very cold here -20f is not uncommon.
You may be ok if you can find a way to cut some comb to fit into the Quadratic frames, to give them a head start. I wouldn't attempt it with an empty box.
As a new beekeeper I have no come I'll have to try it next year I guess I'm sure I'll start some new colonies next year either expanding or replacing dead outs let's hope it's the former
jurie Matthysen I use water instead of smoke. It is cleaner, works at least as well, doesn't add toxins to the hive and you don't need to worry about a smoker going out.
Philip, I love your videos! I was just speaking to my brother about beekeeping yesterday, right before seeing your excellent videos. My brother is a homesteader and just received a hive of some sort - took him 6+ hours to put together (rather large) but I'm not sure what type it is. I may send him your way to your videos, since he is very new to all of this.
This seems to be a good idea for mating nukes Probably just put them on a good strong hive for a start and let them draw and the queen to lay Once the box is drawn and full just remove it, insert new queen and that would be it Plus if these were able to be placed on a standard size with the other 3/4 blocked they can be used a feeders over winter
I like your frame's,very creative,what is that on ends of top bar for the bee space?I'd like to know more about those frame's,seem purposeful and efficient,good job
baddest bees They are standard 38mm frame spacers and you can buy them cheaply on eBay.somr people use them in preference to Hoffman spacing on full-size frames. You can buy longer ones, which are used in honey supers to allow the bees to draw fatter combs.
New sub here thought Id check ya out. We are in the us Detroit Michigan...suburbs. ...where did you get that feeder looks like a barnyard bees feeder.....
mike L Did you not pick up on the British accent? These are pretty much the standard feeder here in the UK. I think some US suppliers are beginning to stock them now.
Very interesting and it looks like it would be a type of Nuc that could overwinter easier as they would be able to share heat if they all cluster in the inner corners, assuming of course that there are 4 separate nucs in one station. I saw that in the first one you had metal supports to outline the whole frame, but in the second set you only had the sides lined with wood. Is there any benefit of one over the other, or was the first one an older test run?
Adiame Shelties The frames made from metal strapping work well and they are easy to remove when moving the comb into a larger frame, allowing bees to expand it without hindrance. I wasn't entirely happy about having that amount of metal in the hive, however, so I settled on the simple wooden "half-frames". You can just use top bars, but inevitably the bees will attach comb to the sides.
Interesting Phil. I take it that you also closed the entrance as it appeared you were only moving the bees a few feet within your apiary? Or would the bees have stayed there because the queen was also there?
I closed it to keep the bees from flying back to their hive (although they were mostly young bees, less inclined to leave their queen), but also because there are wasps around looking for easy targets.
I use mini hives similar to this for queen rearing (small scale, not commercial). You can overwinter them fine. I'm not sure how you can copyright the design though. I mean I guess you could copyright the name, but there would be no way to protect the copyright unless the person selling them called them Phil Chandler Quadratic Hives. Lots of people do similar hives. Betterbee.com has a 4 way mating nuc that is essentially the same thing, but they do them in two boxes. Michael Palmer does a Lang deep with 4 dividers in them for queen rearing, and then adds a half width supers over them for overwinter mating nucs. You have to be careful when overwintering nucs over strong hives I have been told (I do not have first hand experience). The top box is going to get the heat, but also the moisture. Surprisingly, at least to me anyway, is that my TBHs seem to do better in the cold than my Langs. Nucs in my region overall seem to overwinter as well or better than full size hives, so much so that I'm considering breaking down most of my hives at the end of June and "nucing" all of them.
You patent a design, you copyright art and you trademark a name. For a patent the idea has to be novel and not obvious and not done before. Also you can't publicly discuss, exhibit a prototype or show sales samples before you have applied for a patent, otherwise it is no longer novel, and can not be patented.
A brilliant design. Has anyone overwintered the quadratic hive in zone 5b (USA)? planthardiness.ars.usda.gov/PHZMWeb/# I'm a 2nd year bee keeper. Last January, I built 4 Coates nucs (out of 3/4" plywood) and I've stacked them 2 high - have a dual queen hive (excluders on top), and built a cowling so I can put standard Lang box on top. There is a 'split' on one side, and a swarm on the other side. The one drawback to Coates nucs is there is too much of a gap in between, and with stacking you have to close the middle entrance. The top part is not supers now, but rather a top box feeder that both sides share (they need help before winter). But I agree - the shared heat is a key feature. The other nice thing is that the closer entrances tend to mean that more bees are on guard against those wasps. Like having 100 guards at the front door at all times. I don't point the entrances in separate directions. My only concern is that the shaded hive will not be as warm in the winter. Maybe next year I'll switch to quads. Thanks for the plans!
Albert Chubak is the man to ask about overwintering in the USA - he is in Utah and his Eco Bee Box is similar to the Quadratic in capacity. Brother Adam used to winter his newly-mated queens in nucs about this size, four square, in double-walled boxes on Dartmoor, at 1500 feet with severe winter conditions (for the UK: -5 to -10 Celsius not uncommon. Another option would be to place four Quadratic nucs directly on top of a colony in a full-size hive, with a thin floorboard to allow heat from below to keep them cosy.
Intresting video. But still, I do not see bees building quadratic nests in the wild. This is only another human invention suitable for us beekeepers but maybe a bit tricky for the bees..
Hello Phil, It was absolutely wonderful to see knowledge being offered on the net, without the need to pay significant amounts of money for the privilege. and I take my hat off to you.
I am English by birth, but live in Australia, and am 86 years of age. you have a great day now young Phil, and keep up all your great work. Allan.
Very clever I have seen so many clever ideas since I've begun to consider keeping bee's even if I never do it's given enough to occupy my mind for a year or two thank you.
Fascinating. I love seeing all these variations. Seems like a waste of wood, but I like the flexibility. My reaction to 5 quads stacked was, "well that's going to blow over unless you have a strap", but I have to put a strap on my normal hives if there are in windy locations. I follow your progress with interest. (p.s. 13:44 Title Text Here )
Love at 4:06 about 50 of the bees are like where is Phil going with our frame and follow straight after you. Got to love bees, do like this as a user of Warre sizing and having multi compatibility gives much needed flexibility. I think we have reached a point where langstroth, national, rose, warre, top bar all work but the ability to not have to limit yourself to one kind of hive is something I like a lot.
You're LEGEND & Genius Bee Keeper sir Phil' thanks for teaching us...
Okay.. Watched pt2 and all is clear thanks. Your final comment over there about the four small colonies working together to fill a full frame box on top sounds like a good idea, but the bees from each column will all have different smells and fight won't they?
Actually no. Two-queen systems have been operated for many years, and they seem to get used to each other's colony smell very quickly.
Phil. like your quadratic hive, very similar to others i have seen on the british national. Basically, the 4 compartments, divided up from a national works well as its about right in size to provide a big enough colony in terms of comb surface area for spring and summer mating and flows that come and go, but as i have seen, you might struggle to overwinter on a single box and i am sure you have two or three high to allow sufficient stores to overwinter successfully?. I also like very much the insulated cover you have made for each feeder. i have the same problem in the spring, when my strong overwintered nucs need feeding so i make a similar reflective foil blanket, it works really well. once the syrup is warm, they keep on taking it up. I also like your use of metal used in the building trade, to make the frames. we use the Mini- Plus system here because their frames fit exactly on our 6 framed nucs and we use their frames for spring build up on other nucs, the break them dow in to with feed or brood, like you say. Overall your system would work well for you and the key is you have to have a system that allows flexibility. Whether its Quadratic, Mini Plus, or other makes, you have to be universal in your equipment, otherwise it becomes so complicated. I use brood factories as finishers too. Its the key to sustainability!
Brother Adam used National hives divided into four as mating hives, so yes, this is not new. However, as you will see in future videos, the Quadratic hive is much more versatile, as it can be used both vertically (like a mini Warré) and horizontally (in groups of four, with entrances facing mutually at right angles), as a mating nuc and a mini-nuc (typically two boxes - I have over-wintered colonies on two boxes), as well as migrating bees upwards or downwards as shown above. The principal advantage for me over the half-National frame is that the Quadratic frame can be fitted inside the frame of ANY other standard hive, or hung under the top bar of a horizontal TBH or a Warré - in fact I claim that it is THE MOST VERSATILE HIVE IN THE WORLD!
I used to keep bees a long time ago and I've not seen the white bits at the ends of the frames before. Are they spacers to give extra depth for the cells and also lessen the amount of glue to stick the frame ends to the box? Nice video and well spoken with NO music. Bless you.
Yes, I hate background music too! The spacers are literally that: to make the correct spacing between combs.
thank you for the video!
I got your book but 20mm x 8mm stripwood doesn't seem to be common. Is there a retailer that stocks it?
In the Netherlands we have Mini+ or Miniplus. Mini+ is a half size dadant super frame. It looks the same, or is it the same but different name?
I have some half size Dadant frames that were used by Brother Adam at Buckfast Abbey, who used them in his queen rearing, but his mating hives were made to take half National frames. These frames are made to my own design, but they would be perhaps one third of the width of a Dadant super frame. The interior of the Quadratic hive is 190mm each way, by 150mm deep. This enables it to take exactly 5 frames at 38mm spacing, since 5x38=190. In fact, the white spacers are more like 37mm, so there is a little play room, which makes it easier to remove the frames.
With all empty comb for the queen to lay and full of nurse bees, how will they make royal jelly to feed the larva without any beebread or pollen stores?
They store pollen as normal close to brood.
Is there more ventilation than the entrance?
No need for ventilation in a beehive: nobody makes vents in a hollow tree!
I think i saw the queen at 6:22 🤔🤔
Mr Chandler I've got a question. I'm told I shouldn't take splits from a first year colony but if I buy an extra queen and take just a handful of bees might it be possible with one of these quadratic hives? How fast can they build up? I'm worried about them surviving the winter it's very cold here -20f is not uncommon.
You may be ok if you can find a way to cut some comb to fit into the Quadratic frames, to give them a head start. I wouldn't attempt it with an empty box.
As a new beekeeper I have no come I'll have to try it next year I guess I'm sure I'll start some new colonies next year either expanding or replacing dead outs let's hope it's the former
Can I ask where you bought your jacket & trousers from. Or what style are they ? Thank you.
I'm wearing what I am told are USAF pilot's overalls!
Phil Chandler thank you. 😊👍
Why are you spraying water on them
jurie Matthysen I use water instead of smoke. It is cleaner, works at least as well, doesn't add toxins to the hive and you don't need to worry about a smoker going out.
Philip, I love your videos! I was just speaking to my brother about beekeeping yesterday, right before seeing your excellent videos. My brother is a homesteader and just received a hive of some sort - took him 6+ hours to put together (rather large) but I'm not sure what type it is. I may send him your way to your videos, since he is very new to all of this.
Free to Speak Thank you for your kind words x
Thank you :)
Çok güzel bir uygulama teşekkür ederim.Türkiye den selamlar.
I still don't see the point of the "quadratic hive" box. Is it not just a smaller Langstroth?
Have you watched the videos where I describe all the uses of the Quadratic hive?
@@BarefootBeekeeper I watched another one and got a couple reasons.
This seems to be a good idea for mating nukes
Probably just put them on a good strong hive for a start and let them draw and the queen to lay
Once the box is drawn and full just remove it, insert new queen and that would be it
Plus if these were able to be placed on a standard size with the other 3/4 blocked they can be used a feeders over winter
John Strong exactly! They are very versatile.
I like your frame's,very creative,what is that on ends of top bar for the bee space?I'd like to know more about those frame's,seem purposeful and efficient,good job
baddest bees They are standard 38mm frame spacers and you can buy them cheaply on eBay.somr people use them in preference to Hoffman spacing on full-size frames. You can buy longer ones, which are used in honey supers to allow the bees to draw fatter combs.
New sub here thought Id check ya out. We are in the us Detroit Michigan...suburbs. ...where did you get that feeder looks like a barnyard bees feeder.....
mike L Did you not pick up on the British accent? These are pretty much the standard feeder here in the UK. I think some US suppliers are beginning to stock them now.
so you have 4 queens? and the bee's store the honey in the same area?Don't they fight
I haven't tried a 4 queen system yet, but 2 queen setups are fairly common and no, they don't fight.
Very interesting and it looks like it would be a type of Nuc that could overwinter easier as they would be able to share heat if they all cluster in the inner corners, assuming of course that there are 4 separate nucs in one station. I saw that in the first one you had metal supports to outline the whole frame, but in the second set you only had the sides lined with wood. Is there any benefit of one over the other, or was the first one an older test run?
Adiame Shelties The frames made from metal strapping work well and they are easy to remove when moving the comb into a larger frame, allowing bees to expand it without hindrance. I wasn't entirely happy about having that amount of metal in the hive, however, so I settled on the simple wooden "half-frames". You can just use top bars, but inevitably the bees will attach comb to the sides.
Interesting Phil. I take it that you also closed the entrance as it appeared you were only moving the bees a few feet within your apiary? Or would the bees have stayed there because the queen was also there?
I closed it to keep the bees from flying back to their hive (although they were mostly young bees, less inclined to leave their queen), but also because there are wasps around looking for easy targets.
I use mini hives similar to this for queen rearing (small scale, not commercial). You can overwinter them fine. I'm not sure how you can copyright the design though. I mean I guess you could copyright the name, but there would be no way to protect the copyright unless the person selling them called them Phil Chandler Quadratic Hives. Lots of people do similar hives. Betterbee.com has a 4 way mating nuc that is essentially the same thing, but they do them in two boxes. Michael Palmer does a Lang deep with 4 dividers in them for queen rearing, and then adds a half width supers over them for overwinter mating nucs.
You have to be careful when overwintering nucs over strong hives I have been told (I do not have first hand experience). The top box is going to get the heat, but also the moisture.
Surprisingly, at least to me anyway, is that my TBHs seem to do better in the cold than my Langs. Nucs in my region overall seem to overwinter as well or better than full size hives, so much so that I'm considering breaking down most of my hives at the end of June and "nucing" all of them.
You patent a design, you copyright art and you trademark a name. For a patent the idea has to be novel and not obvious and not done before. Also you can't publicly discuss, exhibit a prototype or show sales samples before you have applied for a patent, otherwise it is no longer novel, and can not be patented.
A brilliant design. Has anyone overwintered the quadratic hive in zone 5b (USA)?
planthardiness.ars.usda.gov/PHZMWeb/#
I'm a 2nd year bee keeper. Last January, I built 4 Coates nucs (out of 3/4" plywood) and I've stacked them 2 high - have a dual queen hive (excluders on top), and built a cowling so I can put standard Lang box on top. There is a 'split' on one side, and a swarm on the other side. The one drawback to Coates nucs is there is too much of a gap in between, and with stacking you have to close the middle entrance. The top part is not supers now, but rather a top box feeder that both sides share (they need help before winter). But I agree - the shared heat is a key feature. The other nice thing is that the closer entrances tend to mean that more bees are on guard against those wasps. Like having 100 guards at the front door at all times. I don't point the entrances in separate directions. My only concern is that the shaded hive will not be as warm in the winter. Maybe next year I'll switch to quads. Thanks for the plans!
Albert Chubak is the man to ask about overwintering in the USA - he is in Utah and his Eco Bee Box is similar to the Quadratic in capacity. Brother Adam used to winter his newly-mated queens in nucs about this size, four square, in double-walled boxes on Dartmoor, at 1500 feet with severe winter conditions (for the UK: -5 to -10 Celsius not uncommon. Another option would be to place four Quadratic nucs directly on top of a colony in a full-size hive, with a thin floorboard to allow heat from below to keep them cosy.
Intresting video. But still, I do not see bees building quadratic nests in the wild. This is only another human invention suitable for us beekeepers but maybe a bit tricky for the bees..