Interesting... I just bought a BMW and the M Endurance chain was on the bike as standard equipment. What I have discovered so far is that BMW recommends that the chain needs to be checked and serviced as part of the regular service schedule. Riding as much as you ride is beyond me at 70+ yo, so I'm quietly hoping that I'll be able to avoid cleaning the chain after every ride in the rain. Time will tell! Thanks for your review mate...
I also figured out leaving the chain a bit loose helps a lot but most importantly cleaning it regularly and coating it lightly with oil helps tremendously. I have ran cheap chains and expensive chains. There hasnt been a lot of difference in my mileage on them. I also have never had any trouble with clip type master links. I actually like those better.
First clip installed at a dealer was missing the next day / 1200 miles later. The chain had so much play it was visible in each link. Clip is hardened steel, so it didn't stay connected. Second one came off after about 9000 miles, that's the one that ripped a hole through my engine case, broke off the boss for the bolt holding the front sprocket cover, took out my rear wiring harness and locked up my motor at 80 mph. I'll never trust a clip again.
The only way a chain can get tight and loose like that is a bad sprocket set, either bent or poorly installed. Or a build-up of geese on the sprocket from lack of maintenance (you still need to clean the sprockets they are NOT lifetime) or a bent output shaft though unlikely. That was the pulsing sensation that you felt and that pulsing probably destroyed the chain as it would any chain.
I'm on my 8th set of chains and sprockets on this bike, (85,000 miles) and they all end up stretched after 12-15,000 miles. I replace both sprockets with the chains despite no measurable wear on them. The BMW chain experiment was done according to BMWs claim of zero maintenance and monitored by RevZilla for their report. No build up of grease as we didn't use any. Sprockets were installed properly and no issues until 12,000 miles when the chain had stretched considerably. It was only after riding another 1000 miles past the worn out phase did the pins start to deform considerably, yet not uniformly. Read the RevZilla Common Treads story, as they disassembled the chain and show the deformed pins. A used chain was installed in CA to get me home (3000mi) on the old sprockets and it did not pulse, so output shaft and/or sprockets are not the issue. The rear spring has just been upgraded with the hope of allowing the suspension to have less stress, as loaded up I was cranked fully on the preload and putting more stress on the drive chain.
New chains will always "stretch" because each individual roller and bushing will wear slightly, increasing the gap between each contact point (2 per link, 100 links or so, adds up) so of course you'll need to readjust it at least once after a few thousand miles. Letting it stretch, then not adjusting is the worst thing to do.
Great Job! Sub'd and T-Up! Thanks for doing this! I too, come from 40+ years of shaft drive. I threw out my life long collection of BMW cool-aid! Riding a wonderful Honda NC750-dct. FAR LESS costly and much more reliable! Now at 70 and worn out... no more high maintenance, High power, Heavy bikes. But ALAS the damn chain! I will never NEVER put the miles you do. But, I do want to take care of the chain ..etc. So what types of lubes??? I tried the chain oiler on a 1050 V-strom. That was a huge mess. Now I am using Maxima Chain wax on the Honda. Spay very sparingly after wiping chain with a shop rag/towel. Let it sit over night. Only takes a few minutes and as we all know it is therapeutic to do some light mechanic work. Not much of a mess...so far so good. WHAT SAY YOU?
Did you ever cleaned the chain I have it on My S1000XR 2017 did 26k km and still going strong. Sand will not enhance the lifespan en your sprocket isn't the best anymore
For this particular experiment, we followed the claim from BMW at the time that it was a zero maintenance chain. No oiling, no cleaning, no adjusting. (BMW has since change their description of this chain to low maintenance, which I would agree it is. With proper cleaning, oiling and adjusting, it will hold up better than a traditional O-ring chain)
Am sure you adjust the chain on the sidestand ! Like you did there is logic to it , has a bigger slack when wheel off the ground and when the wheel is fully pressed (when landing a jump! ) The chain is most stretched when de front sprocket ,the mounting point off the rear swingarm and the center off the wheel is in one line! Thats why your chain snapped!
The lifetime chain was an option on the XR 1000 last summer. If I remember right it was almost a $400 option on the BMW. Given the choice I would take shaft drive.
I replace my Chains with DID chains and use their clip master link BUT !!! as a back up, I also wrap the Master link with safety wire so the clip CAN'T leave the chain ... Havent lost a master link yet.... I did however loose the safety wire once...
clip style link is fine, you likely didn't assemble it correctly., the o ring style clip links still need the have the plates pressed on, otherwise you will not expose the groves for the clip enough for it to be retained.
I’ve had two catastrophic failures with clips over the last 100,000 miles. No thanks. Yes, they were pressed on and the clip in the groove. The pins wear, and the link pops off. I’ve heard from hundreds of people who have seen it happen on migh mileage chains.
I can't wait for the 80k review. I have been on a Super Tenere for 3 years and it's been so darn reliable that these problems seem crazy, but I want to go lighter. I actually bought a T7 last summer and sold it because I was kinda underwhelmed, but in a weird way, I really miss it, so I find myself back on a deposit list for one to replace my Super T. However, horror stories of chains and tubes (your last two vidoes), along with the high revs at highway speed, do give me a little more pause.
I wouldn't swap for a 1200. Wheels are great now and I'll figure out the chain issue. Highway isn't high reving as far as I'm concerned, at a GPS 85, I'm just about 6k rpm. It redlines at 10k, so enemy at 100mph, it's not working hard st all. Zero vibrations at high speed as well.
@@longhaulpaul So you're saying the T7 is a great next bike for someone seeking something a bit smaller? I have a KLX 300 as well, for really tight trails and stuff, but I'm looking at a Norden 901, KTM 890 and T7 as potential replacements. The T7 is much less expensive, and much more reliable.
I had two X ring chains fail on me last year, destroying both sprockets each time. My best luck yet is standard O-Ring chain, never scrubbing the chain, only degrease and rinse with hose water when I wash the bike. Otherwise dribble on some bar and chain lube every 500-1000 miles to keep the O-rings in one piece. Just watch out when turning left if you put too much oil. 15K and counting with one adjustment, fingers crossed. Safe travels.
I've been spoiled with my shaft drive. I don't want another chain drive bike. I wish yamaha would give the super tenere 1200 a over haul. That would be my next bike.
A shaft on a 900 or T7 would be awesome. I enjoyed my 1200's, but the 7 is just as good or better except two-up travel. Tubes and chain are the only items needing attention. If I can get 25k out of a chain, I'd be 1000% satisfied!
For the cost of the "no maintenance" chain, I could buy 28 x 520 DID O ring chains ($12.50 in Thailand) , which last 18 k miles with gear oil lube every 500 miles. So the expensive chain needs to last 500 000 miles to justify its expense. Truth is, there is only so much lubricant that can be sealed inside, once gone, the chain is history.
I've been using clip type links for tens of thousands of miles with zero issues. If they're installed properly, they are 100% safe and durable. Also, chains and sprockets should be installed as sets...never put a new chain on old worn sprockets.
Incorrect. You can replace as many as 3 front sprockets for 1 rear (depending on the front to back teeth ratio). So, if your front sprocket has 15 teeth and your rear 45 you are exactly at 1:3 ratio which means the rear should last as 3 of those 15-teeth front sprockets. The chain is checked for stretching and that's about it. Mechanics and shops want to sell you stuff, hence the myths. P.S. Links with clips are fine as long as you don't mess up the orientation of the C-clip.
If you’re running that many miles you need a bike with a shaft and yes I know they have problems too I had to haul a r75 home 600 miles because of a failed rear gear. Got a cb750 never looked back yes I went through a lot of chains but it always got me home
Shafts are nice. Put 300,000 miles on Super Tenere. Have over a million miles on various shaft bikes. The chain is a lighter, less expensive drive train. With my oiler, I’m not getting 25,000 miles per chain with no cleaning or adjusting until tire changes.
I know it may be silly to ask, but I am curious if you replace the sprockets when you replaced the chain. Putting a new chain on old sprockets will chew it up quick.
Of course. I’m now at almost 200,000 miles on this bike, so I’ve gone through over a dozen sets. I installed a chain oiler and now get 25,000 miles from a chain set without any cleaning or oiling. I only adjust when replacing tires every 7000 miles or so.
Yes, because the bike doesn’t come with a center stand. However, the chain slack measurement is the exact same center or side stand as long as you have no load on the bike when on the side stand. By using the center stand, you don’t have to unload the bike to adjust the chain.
i don't know. On dirt bikes i like a chain. On street bikes i like shaft. Back in the 1970s i used to ride Honda 750s. At the end of a big riding day i would oil the chain while it was warm then let the bike sit for the night. My chains would last about 30,000 miles. Bob.
80k miles on a T7. Kudos and congrats! Split link (master link) coming off in 1200 miles - unlucky ! I presume it was facing the correct way? In 44 years of riding motorcycles, all non shaft (Guzzis) bikes have had split links. Never had one fail.
@@phillipbatho3213 first one was a DID NON-O ring. Only 525 122 link or better chain available in emergency. Second was a HK x ring I believe that ships with only a clip.
The problem is the chain was designed for low horsepower/low torgue bmw motorcycles.The t-7 obviously does not fit either bill.Thus over taxing the chain and causing premature failure.In stalled on an f800 probably would last forever. OR a longer life time.
horse power has nothing to do with it. What loads the chain and puts it in tension is the torque (and maybe more significantly, shock loads from the environment, but those are unpredictable). The F800 actually has more torque than the T7 (83 vs 69Nm), so I don't think that explanation holds up. However, maybe the suspension travel of the T7 has something to do with it. Iirc the T7 has an unusually long rear suspension travel, and change in the travel also causes a difference in the length between sprockets (and hence chain length). It could be that if your suspension is set too soft, that (nearing) bottoming out can cause a lot of shock loads on the chain, more so than more road oriented bikes.
I'll bet that a BMW chain is expensive.. My Yamaha FZ-07 chain has 19,000 miles on it.. Bel-Ray chain lube seems to hang on for a long time. You can get it in 4 0z cans which as small to put in your luggage.
Yeah, that's what they said about my Tenere on display at Barber! My bikes tend to rot away the wiring and connectors from riding through a few winters. 2-3 years and 180,000 hard miles is about what I get out of using a bike to travel full time. After that, it's raffled off for the charity. If I followed the maintenance schedule to the letter, It would cost over $10,000 more a year for service. I'm certainly not going to oil my chain 4-5 times every day I log 1000 miles. My abuse of motorcycles is well documented and if I get 150-200,000 miles out of a Yamaha without doing much preventive maintenance, imagine how many miles it would last someone else who did!
LOL! So you Tested a BMW chain on a big dirt bike made by Yamaha instead of the motorcycle or motorcycle type BMW designed the chain for and came to the conclusion that the chain was a failure and BMW lied? Really?!? The only motorcycles that BMW presently have listed for this chain is the BMW f900, S1000r, rr, and XR. That’s it and all of these are street only motorcycles. It’s funny that no BMW owner with one of the bikes the chain comes stock with is complaining of failure. My M chain like the rest of my motorcycle is warrantied up to 3 years and I’ve had NO wear or need to adjust or clean. One person testing one chain made for BMW street bikes only on a rival brand motorcycle made for the dirt and concluding BMW lied which would means lawsuits and BMW pulling the product from their motorcycle lines but instead BMW is expanding the number of motorcycles that the m endurance Chain is being fitted to. It is irresponsible for Revzilla or anyone to conclude anything from one test but when you are sponsored by chain cleaner and lubricant brand….well there might be some incentive to say a maintenance free chain is a myth. But moto journalism is in the toilet 🚽 nowadays and I rarely read it and never consider anything they say to be true.
The original plan wasn't to test it out, I was just looking for a chain that would last me longer than a couple months (12,000 miles)of riding. I do not work for RevZilla or get paid to test this chain out. I paid full retail price for it with no intention of a scientific test. I have no chain sponsors or chain cleaning sponsors as you claimed. Last year, well after this video was posted, ScottOiler sent me an automatic chain oiler to help lower my daily maintenance on the road. I'm still looking for the longest wearing chain as I pay for them myself. When I saw the internet blow up with an incredible new lifetime chain from BMW, I hoped the extra cost would result in longer life and less fussing. At the time, it was only available from BMW. (Regina is the manufacturer and now sells it for any bike with a 125 pitch) RevZilla was interested in the new chain and reached out to me because they know the miles I pile on. Like myself, they expected the chain to last longer than a stock chain and had some doubt about the BMW's original press releases that claimed ZERO maintenance for the life of the chain. This chain absolutely did not live up to the original hype BMW claimed, and it was BMW themselves that did indeed change their description from the miracle zero Maintenance for the life of the chain to now state it is a "low maintenance" chain. BMW walked back the claim because it wasn't tested in real world conditions and they took Regina's word that it would last forever with no adjustments and no lubrication. BMW agreed it was wrong to claim zero maintenance and changed the way they describe it. They now actually do recommend lubrication and adjustments when the bike is at the dealer for routine service intervals. I really hoped the chain would last longer, as I was looking for ways to lower my yearly travel expenses. I'm sure my experience with the chain was not isolated and BMW decided it could no longer claim it was a lifetime chain based on what they were seeing in the field.
@@longhaulpaul Thank you for your calm and constructive response to that person @cosef4491. His attacking and confrontational style is ruining the discussion. If he were a journalist, he would be the cause of the degradation. Sincerely, subscription added.
Interesting! The same BMW chain that Paul tested and that you criticized for using on an adventure bike (Tenere 700) is the same chain that BMW now uses on the GSA900 (adventure). I also did a test ride on the same BMW bike and the first thing I looked at was the chain and it was lubricated like any other. So I think... Why pay so much more if the maintenance care is going to be the same? It doesn't make sense!
In Star Venture review you mentioned that was your first belt driven bike, and from what i understand, Tenere is your first chain driven bike. Would you go back to belt with this experience now?
I had a Bull Ulysses once. Broke two belts 12,000 miles apart leaving me stranded both times. The venture never had an issue, but I didn't adjust it between tires. . I've had a couple shaft problems as well over the last 45 bikes. I've have probably owned 10-15 chain bikes, but they were never my long distance 50-80k a year bikes. I knew chains and tubes would be my only issue switching to the T7, but my job is to try and break it! I love the versatility of an adventure bike as well as the smaller size. I've solved the tube issue, so I just have to solve the chain issue and it's a perfect machine. I was told to get a chain oiler, fill it and forget it. That didn't work. Then I tried keeping a good eye on the adjustment and lubed it every day on the road. Not much better. I was told a clip link was fine and one of the new chains were delivered with only a clip. No idea it would just fall off after a while. Tried the BMW chain because it claimed to be lifetime! I hoped for 25k at least. But it didn't last any more than the others. For an average rider, 12-15,000 miles means a year or two in between chains and it is pretty easy to swap out. I'm just nonstop and long days, high speed and terrible at keeping thug maintained during my trips. Oil and tires every 4-5 weeks or 7- 10k miles. I just swap out the chain at the same time I suppose!
I think it all depends on weight and sag. Different for each rider. I just put a heavier spring in (I'm at 80k) and will probably go back closer to spec. With the stock spring I had my preload at 100% fully loaded up and I was setting the chain about 1/2" more than spec.
That’s because the bike doesn’t come with the center stand. The measurement is the same as long as the bike is unloaded of weight. As my bike has luggage racks and a fuel cell, it would be an hour job to unload the weight to check on the side stand. The chain is in the exact position when on the side stand (without load) or on the center stand with any amount of load.
I do. There is a Tube Only version of the A41 tire that gets me 10,000 miles from the rear. If you use the regular tubeless version, I get about 7500 miles out of the rear. I've gone 12-14,000 on a front, but usually change as a set. I used the A41 exclusively on the T12s and was very happy with them there as well.
@@longhaulpaul Do you perhaps have a rationale for the diferrence in mile life time between tube and tubeless? Had a Vstrom 650 a couple of years ago and I got around 9500 miles outside the rear, now I have an old CBF 600 with similar power with the A41 and after 3000 miles they are 75% gone… although both are tubeless. I cannot explain it
@@lukew1779 because it's a stupid idea for an off road machine. Belts would get destroyed there. Not only from potential branches , rocks and twigs that could get caught in there and slice the belt up but also because the swingarm of offroad bikes has a much greater range of motion than that of a street bike. The chain is designed to have a looser tension (and flexes itself after that), that compensates for extreme swingarm movements. Belts, can't be set to be loose and don't flex. If they do flex they are incapable of transferring power above a certain load. There are very good reasons why off road bikes use chains and nothing else (differentials are fitted in bikes where mild offroading is expected - such as the Super Tenere and GSs - and weight isn't a problem, everything else gets the lightweight chain and sprockets application and its superb reliability).
I feel like you went out of your way to ruin the chain. The manual for my BMW calls it a "low-maintenance chain" and tells you it clearly still needs to be cleaned and oiled occasionally if run in salty, dusty, or dirty conditions and still needs annual(or 6000 miles) adjustment and cleaning/oiling. That said, I traded in my R7 with 12k miles and the stock chain had lots of life left in it.
Yes, BMW actually changed the description of the M-chain after my testing it with RevZilla. They absolutely did first call it a No Maintenance chain. No adjusting and no oiling for the life of the chain. It’s right in all their original advertising. I did not do anything to the chain to ruin it. I ran it in the same conditions I did the other 10 chains I’ve had on the bike.
My Regina HPE BMW chain died after 12000km.. I will never buy it again! Talked to the company who sold me the chain and they said “No problems with the chain, it must be you who haven’t taken care of it” Taking care of a maintenance free chain? I’ve cleaned it and given it a bit of oil on a cloth. Don’t buy it, it’s not worth the money
But at 25k miles did you replace your sprockets as well for a fair review if not then this is void sorry, if you want to test something do it correctly. and make sure you fit the link correctly.
Of course. Clean and lube any chain properly and you will get 25,00 km out of any of them. I’m getting 40,000 km out of my X ring chains now that I use an auto oiler. The M chain was originally marketed by BMW as a lifetime chain with zero maintenance, zero adjustments. That was our testing criteria. BMW now admits it is only a low maintenance chain and pulled all the ads claiming zero maintenance.
I used a DID X ring. At 11,000 miles it had enough play in just a section of 10 links, it moved 1/2". Wasn't impressed at all. BikeMaster chain was the best so far, but I'm on my second RK GXW chain and they are showing promise. Two Factory chains were not bad either, but come solid, have to break and add a master.
@@longhaulpaul Thanks for the info. I have 8k miles on my DID chain and It's almost as good as new. I do run it loose and gear oil it every day. Also I don't ride at as high speeds at you. Would love a video / article on chain recommendations tho :)
It's the heat build up from 15-16 hours nonstop at 80-90 mph that is sucking the life out of the metal. If a KTM was ridden the same, it would be similar. Even oiling it three times a day didn't help extend the life.
@@stoney3398 this is the last I will say on the matter. I’m sure the guy is great and rides more than anyone, but 16 hours per day everyday would be from 6 a. m. to 10 p. m. I believe extradited somewhat, don’t u? No more comments from me. I really don’t give a crap!
Interesting...
I just bought a BMW and the M Endurance chain was on the bike as standard equipment. What I have discovered so far is that BMW recommends that the chain needs to be checked and serviced as part of the regular service schedule. Riding as much as you ride is beyond me at 70+ yo, so I'm quietly hoping that I'll be able to avoid cleaning the chain after every ride in the rain. Time will tell! Thanks for your review mate...
I also figured out leaving the chain a bit loose helps a lot but most importantly cleaning it regularly and coating it lightly with oil helps tremendously. I have ran cheap chains and expensive chains. There hasnt been a lot of difference in my mileage on them. I also have never had any trouble with clip type master links. I actually like those better.
First clip installed at a dealer was missing the next day / 1200 miles later. The chain had so much play it was visible in each link. Clip is hardened steel, so it didn't stay connected. Second one came off after about 9000 miles, that's the one that ripped a hole through my engine case, broke off the boss for the bolt holding the front sprocket cover, took out my rear wiring harness and locked up my motor at 80 mph. I'll never trust a clip again.
I would like to see a video how you adjusted the chain slack on the tenere 700.
Same here, I'mhappy to have this chain, checking and lubing at service time is a great result.
The only way a chain can get tight and loose like that is a bad sprocket set, either bent or poorly installed. Or a build-up of geese on the sprocket from lack of maintenance (you still need to clean the sprockets they are NOT lifetime) or a bent output shaft though unlikely. That was the pulsing sensation that you felt and that pulsing probably destroyed the chain as it would any chain.
I'm on my 8th set of chains and sprockets on this bike, (85,000 miles) and they all end up stretched after 12-15,000 miles. I replace both sprockets with the chains despite no measurable wear on them.
The BMW chain experiment was done according to BMWs claim of zero maintenance and monitored by RevZilla for their report. No build up of grease as we didn't use any. Sprockets were installed properly and no issues until 12,000 miles when the chain had stretched considerably. It was only after riding another 1000 miles past the worn out phase did the pins start to deform considerably, yet not uniformly. Read the RevZilla Common Treads story, as they disassembled the chain and show the deformed pins. A used chain was installed in CA to get me home (3000mi) on the old sprockets and it did not pulse, so output shaft and/or sprockets are not the issue. The rear spring has just been upgraded with the hope of allowing the suspension to have less stress, as loaded up I was cranked fully on the preload and putting more stress on the drive chain.
New chains will always "stretch" because each individual roller and bushing will wear slightly, increasing the gap between each contact point (2 per link, 100 links or so, adds up) so of course you'll need to readjust it at least once after a few thousand miles. Letting it stretch, then not adjusting is the worst thing to do.
Should be careful riding near geese by the sound of it!
This is absolutely not true. I’ve had many chains wear out exactly like this.
Great Job! Sub'd and T-Up! Thanks for doing this! I too, come from 40+ years of shaft drive. I threw out my life long collection of BMW cool-aid! Riding a wonderful Honda NC750-dct. FAR LESS costly and much more reliable! Now at 70 and worn out... no more high maintenance, High power, Heavy bikes. But ALAS the damn chain! I will never NEVER put the miles you do. But, I do want to take care of the chain ..etc. So what types of lubes??? I tried the chain oiler on a 1050 V-strom. That was a huge mess. Now I am using Maxima Chain wax on the Honda. Spay very sparingly after wiping chain with a shop rag/towel. Let it sit over night. Only takes a few minutes and as we all know it is therapeutic to do some light mechanic work. Not much of a mess...so far so good.
WHAT SAY YOU?
on a F800 GS it needs adjustment 1 millimeter per 8000 Km
Dang Paul you’re an absolute riding stud! I can’t even imagine riding that long.
Did you ever cleaned the chain I have it on My S1000XR 2017 did 26k km and still going strong.
Sand will not enhance the lifespan en your sprocket isn't the best anymore
For this particular experiment, we followed the claim from BMW at the time that it was a zero maintenance chain. No oiling, no cleaning, no adjusting. (BMW has since change their description of this chain to low maintenance, which I would agree it is. With proper cleaning, oiling and adjusting, it will hold up better than a traditional O-ring chain)
Am sure you adjust the chain on the sidestand ! Like you did there is logic to it , has a bigger slack when wheel off the ground and when the wheel is fully pressed (when landing a jump! )
The chain is most stretched when de front sprocket ,the mounting point off the rear swingarm and the center off the wheel is in one line! Thats why your chain snapped!
The lifetime chain was an option on the XR 1000 last summer. If I remember right it was almost a $400 option on the BMW. Given the choice I would take shaft drive.
Yeah, I wish small adv bikes had shafts as well, but for most people a chain every couple years isn't a issue at all.
I replace my Chains with DID chains and use their clip master link BUT !!! as a back up, I also wrap the Master link with safety wire so the clip CAN'T leave the chain ... Havent lost a master link yet.... I did however loose the safety wire once...
clip style link is fine, you likely didn't assemble it correctly., the o ring style clip links still need the have the plates pressed on, otherwise you will not expose the groves for the clip enough for it to be retained.
I’ve had two catastrophic failures with clips over the last 100,000 miles. No thanks. Yes, they were pressed on and the clip in the groove. The pins wear, and the link pops off. I’ve heard from hundreds of people who have seen it happen on migh mileage chains.
I can't wait for the 80k review. I have been on a Super Tenere for 3 years and it's been so darn reliable that these problems seem crazy, but I want to go lighter. I actually bought a T7 last summer and sold it because I was kinda underwhelmed, but in a weird way, I really miss it, so I find myself back on a deposit list for one to replace my Super T. However, horror stories of chains and tubes (your last two vidoes), along with the high revs at highway speed, do give me a little more pause.
I wouldn't swap for a 1200. Wheels are great now and I'll figure out the chain issue. Highway isn't high reving as far as I'm concerned, at a GPS 85, I'm just about 6k rpm. It redlines at 10k, so enemy at 100mph, it's not working hard st all. Zero vibrations at high speed as well.
@@longhaulpaul So you're saying the T7 is a great next bike for someone seeking something a bit smaller? I have a KLX 300 as well, for really tight trails and stuff, but I'm looking at a Norden 901, KTM 890 and T7 as potential replacements. The T7 is much less expensive, and much more reliable.
I had two X ring chains fail on me last year, destroying both sprockets each time. My best luck yet is standard O-Ring chain, never scrubbing the chain, only degrease and rinse with hose water when I wash the bike. Otherwise dribble on some bar and chain lube every 500-1000 miles to keep the O-rings in one piece. Just watch out when turning left if you put too much oil. 15K and counting with one adjustment, fingers crossed. Safe travels.
My oiler did the same thing. Also... my next bike will be a shift driven one.
I've been spoiled with my shaft drive. I don't want another chain drive bike. I wish yamaha would give the super tenere 1200 a over haul. That would be my next bike.
A shaft on a 900 or T7 would be awesome. I enjoyed my 1200's, but the 7 is just as good or better except two-up travel. Tubes and chain are the only items needing attention. If I can get 25k out of a chain, I'd be 1000% satisfied!
For the cost of the "no maintenance" chain, I could buy 28 x 520 DID O ring chains ($12.50 in Thailand) , which last 18 k miles with gear oil lube every 500 miles. So the expensive chain needs to last 500 000 miles to justify its expense. Truth is, there is only so much lubricant that can be sealed inside, once gone, the chain is history.
I've been using clip type links for tens of thousands of miles with zero issues. If they're installed properly, they are 100% safe and durable. Also, chains and sprockets should be installed as sets...never put a new chain on old worn sprockets.
Incorrect. You can replace as many as 3 front sprockets for 1 rear (depending on the front to back teeth ratio). So, if your front sprocket has 15 teeth and your rear 45 you are exactly at 1:3 ratio which means the rear should last as 3 of those 15-teeth front sprockets. The chain is checked for stretching and that's about it. Mechanics and shops want to sell you stuff, hence the myths.
P.S. Links with clips are fine as long as you don't mess up the orientation of the C-clip.
If you’re running that many miles you need a bike with a shaft and yes I know they have problems too I had to haul a r75 home 600 miles because of a failed rear gear. Got a cb750 never looked back yes I went through a lot of chains but it always got me home
Shafts are nice. Put 300,000 miles on Super Tenere. Have over a million miles on various shaft bikes. The chain is a lighter, less expensive drive train. With my oiler, I’m not getting 25,000 miles per chain with no cleaning or adjusting until tire changes.
I know it may be silly to ask, but I am curious if you replace the sprockets when you replaced the chain. Putting a new chain on old sprockets will chew it up quick.
Of course. I’m now at almost 200,000 miles on this bike, so I’ve gone through over a dozen sets. I installed a chain oiler and now get 25,000 miles from a chain set without any cleaning or oiling. I only adjust when replacing tires every 7000 miles or so.
Congratulations Paul, when will your land speed record be officially accepted? Love the added humor.
just a side note, Tenere chain is measured and adjusted on side stand not centre stand.
Yes, because the bike doesn’t come with a center stand.
However, the chain slack measurement is the exact same center or side stand as long as you have no load on the bike when on the side stand. By using the center stand, you don’t have to unload the bike to adjust the chain.
Good info mate …
i don't know. On dirt bikes i like a chain. On street bikes i like shaft. Back in the 1970s i used to ride Honda 750s. At the end of a big riding day i would oil the chain while it was warm then let the bike sit for the night. My chains would last about 30,000 miles. Bob.
80k miles on a T7. Kudos and congrats!
Split link (master link) coming off in 1200 miles - unlucky !
I presume it was facing the correct way?
In 44 years of riding motorcycles, all non shaft (Guzzis) bikes have had split links. Never had one fail.
Yes. It was a non o ring chain only thing available in Vegas on a Sunday. It stretched so much in a day that the clip disengaged.
@@longhaulpaul sounds like it was a crap chain. I've also used clip type master links for decades, and have NEVER had one fail.
@@phillipbatho3213 first one was a DID NON-O ring. Only 525 122 link or better chain available in emergency.
Second was a HK x ring I believe that ships with only a clip.
The problem is the chain was designed for low horsepower/low torgue bmw motorcycles.The t-7 obviously does not fit either bill.Thus over taxing the chain and causing premature failure.In stalled on an f800 probably would last forever. OR a longer life time.
They have like the same horsepower, lol
horse power has nothing to do with it. What loads the chain and puts it in tension is the torque (and maybe more significantly, shock loads from the environment, but those are unpredictable). The F800 actually has more torque than the T7 (83 vs 69Nm), so I don't think that explanation holds up.
However, maybe the suspension travel of the T7 has something to do with it. Iirc the T7 has an unusually long rear suspension travel, and change in the travel also causes a difference in the length between sprockets (and hence chain length). It could be that if your suspension is set too soft, that (nearing) bottoming out can cause a lot of shock loads on the chain, more so than more road oriented bikes.
At 5:00 rolling by hand. That looks like sprocket wear, which can cause premature chain wear.
I'll bet that a BMW chain is expensive.. My Yamaha FZ-07 chain has 19,000 miles on it.. Bel-Ray chain lube seems to hang on for a long time. You can get it in 4 0z cans which as small to put in your luggage.
The miles you are doing really warrent some basic level of maintenance and adjustment.
Yeah, that's what they said about my Tenere on display at Barber! My bikes tend to rot away the wiring and connectors from riding through a few winters. 2-3 years and 180,000 hard miles is about what I get out of using a bike to travel full time. After that, it's raffled off for the charity. If I followed the maintenance schedule to the letter, It would cost over $10,000 more a year for service. I'm certainly not going to oil my chain 4-5 times every day I log 1000 miles. My abuse of motorcycles is well documented and if I get 150-200,000 miles out of a Yamaha without doing much preventive maintenance, imagine how many miles it would last someone else who did!
LOL! So you Tested a BMW chain on a big dirt bike made by Yamaha instead of the motorcycle or motorcycle type BMW designed the chain for and came to the conclusion that the chain was a failure and BMW lied? Really?!?
The only motorcycles that BMW presently have listed for this chain is the BMW f900, S1000r, rr, and XR. That’s it and all of these are street only motorcycles.
It’s funny that no BMW owner with one of the bikes the chain comes stock with is complaining of failure. My M chain like the rest of my motorcycle is warrantied up to 3 years and I’ve had NO wear or need to adjust or clean.
One person testing one chain made for BMW street bikes only on a rival brand motorcycle made for the dirt and concluding BMW lied which would means lawsuits and BMW pulling the product from their motorcycle lines but instead BMW is expanding the number of motorcycles that the m endurance Chain is being fitted to.
It is irresponsible for Revzilla or anyone to conclude anything from one test but when you are sponsored by chain cleaner and lubricant brand….well there might be some incentive to say a maintenance free chain is a myth. But moto journalism is in the toilet 🚽 nowadays and I rarely read it and never consider anything they say to be true.
The original plan wasn't to test it out, I was just looking for a chain that would last me longer than a couple months (12,000 miles)of riding.
I do not work for RevZilla or get paid to test this chain out. I paid full retail price for it with no intention of a scientific test. I have no chain sponsors or chain cleaning sponsors as you claimed.
Last year, well after this video was posted, ScottOiler sent me an automatic chain oiler to help lower my daily maintenance on the road. I'm still looking for the longest wearing chain as I pay for them myself.
When I saw the internet blow up with an incredible new lifetime chain from BMW, I hoped the extra cost would result in longer life and less fussing. At the time, it was only available from BMW. (Regina is the manufacturer and now sells it for any bike with a 125 pitch)
RevZilla was interested in the new chain and reached out to me because they know the miles I pile on. Like myself, they expected the chain to last longer than a stock chain and had some doubt about the BMW's original press releases that claimed ZERO maintenance for the life of the chain.
This chain absolutely did not live up to the original hype BMW claimed, and it was BMW themselves that did indeed change their description from the miracle zero Maintenance for the life of the chain to now state it is a "low maintenance" chain.
BMW walked back the claim because it wasn't tested in real world conditions and they took Regina's word that it would last forever with no adjustments and no lubrication.
BMW agreed it was wrong to claim zero maintenance and changed the way they describe it. They now actually do recommend lubrication and adjustments when the bike is at the dealer for routine service intervals.
I really hoped the chain would last longer, as I was looking for ways to lower my yearly travel expenses.
I'm sure my experience with the chain was not isolated and BMW decided it could no longer claim it was a lifetime chain based on what they were seeing in the field.
@@longhaulpaul Thank you for your calm and constructive response to that person
@cosef4491. His attacking and confrontational style is ruining the discussion. If he were a journalist, he would be the cause of the degradation. Sincerely, subscription added.
Interesting! The same BMW chain that Paul tested and that you criticized for using on an adventure bike (Tenere 700) is the same chain that BMW now uses on the GSA900 (adventure). I also did a test ride on the same BMW bike and the first thing I looked at was the chain and it was lubricated like any other. So I think... Why pay so much more if the maintenance care is going to be the same? It doesn't make sense!
In Star Venture review you mentioned that was your first belt driven bike, and from what i understand, Tenere is your first chain driven bike. Would you go back to belt with this experience now?
I had a Bull Ulysses once. Broke two belts 12,000 miles apart leaving me stranded both times. The venture never had an issue, but I didn't adjust it between tires. .
I've had a couple shaft problems as well over the last 45 bikes. I've have probably owned 10-15 chain bikes, but they were never my long distance 50-80k a year bikes. I knew chains and tubes would be my only issue switching to the T7, but my job is to try and break it! I love the versatility of an adventure bike as well as the smaller size. I've solved the tube issue, so I just have to solve the chain issue and it's a perfect machine.
I was told to get a chain oiler, fill it and forget it. That didn't work. Then I tried keeping a good eye on the adjustment and lubed it every day on the road. Not much better. I was told a clip link was fine and one of the new chains were delivered with only a clip. No idea it would just fall off after a while. Tried the BMW chain because it claimed to be lifetime! I hoped for 25k at least. But it didn't last any more than the others.
For an average rider, 12-15,000 miles means a year or two in between chains and it is pretty easy to swap out. I'm just nonstop and long days, high speed and terrible at keeping thug maintained during my trips. Oil and tires every 4-5 weeks or 7- 10k miles. I just swap out the chain at the same time I suppose!
Thanks
Hey Paul, what do recommend on chain slack on the T7? I feel like mine is tight but I went with measurements that manual said, and still feels tight..
I think it all depends on weight and sag. Different for each rider. I just put a heavier spring in (I'm at 80k) and will probably go back closer to spec. With the stock spring I had my preload at 100% fully loaded up and I was setting the chain about 1/2" more than spec.
Dude! The manual says chain tension should me measured on the sidestand not on the centerstand!!
That’s because the bike doesn’t come with the center stand. The measurement is the same as long as the bike is unloaded of weight. As my bike has luggage racks and a fuel cell, it would be an hour job to unload the weight to check on the side stand. The chain is in the exact position when on the side stand (without load) or on the center stand with any amount of load.
Do you have a fuel-cell on the T7 to extend the range? What brand did you use for the Super Tenere?
I do. 2.5 gal. Bunch about mounting it in my last couple videos on set up.
Both T12s were custom built. 5 gal and a 6 gal.
@@longhaulpaul Thanks for the reply Paul and the inspiration!
Do you use Bridgestone A41? How many miles do they last with the kind of riding you do?
I do. There is a Tube Only version of the A41 tire that gets me 10,000 miles from the rear. If you use the regular tubeless version, I get about 7500 miles out of the rear. I've gone 12-14,000 on a front, but usually change as a set.
I used the A41 exclusively on the T12s and was very happy with them there as well.
@@longhaulpaul Do you perhaps have a rationale for the diferrence in mile life time between tube and tubeless?
Had a Vstrom 650 a couple of years ago and I got around 9500 miles outside the rear, now I have an old CBF 600 with similar power with the A41 and after 3000 miles they are 75% gone… although both are tubeless. I cannot explain it
Yes. I get 7500 miles typically out of my rears. 13,000 or so out of the fronts.
Why why why wouldn't they put a shaft drive on the new tenere world raid. Dealing with chains on a long distance bike is such a massive pain.
Could you replace the final drive with a belt and pulley system like Harley's have?
NO!
@@C_R_O_M________ why not?
@@lukew1779 because it's a stupid idea for an off road machine. Belts would get destroyed there. Not only from potential branches , rocks and twigs that could get caught in there and slice the belt up but also because the swingarm of offroad bikes has a much greater range of motion than that of a street bike. The chain is designed to have a looser tension (and flexes itself after that), that compensates for extreme swingarm movements. Belts, can't be set to be loose and don't flex. If they do flex they are incapable of transferring power above a certain load. There are very good reasons why off road bikes use chains and nothing else (differentials are fitted in bikes where mild offroading is expected - such as the Super Tenere and GSs - and weight isn't a problem, everything else gets the lightweight chain and sprockets application and its superb reliability).
@@C_R_O_M________ This guy is doing long road trips on highways, not single track. It would work fine and last much longer.
Been riding for about 45 years and never have had a properly installed clip master link come off or fail. I wonder why yours failed?
Chains stretched enough that it popped off the pins.
I feel like you went out of your way to ruin the chain. The manual for my BMW calls it a "low-maintenance chain" and tells you it clearly still needs to be cleaned and oiled occasionally if run in salty, dusty, or dirty conditions and still needs annual(or 6000 miles) adjustment and cleaning/oiling. That said, I traded in my R7 with 12k miles and the stock chain had lots of life left in it.
Yes, BMW actually changed the description of the M-chain after my testing it with RevZilla. They absolutely did first call it a No Maintenance chain. No adjusting and no oiling for the life of the chain. It’s right in all their original advertising. I did not do anything to the chain to ruin it. I ran it in the same conditions I did the other 10 chains I’ve had on the bike.
My Regina HPE BMW chain died after 12000km.. I will never buy it again!
Talked to the company who sold me the chain and they said “No problems with the chain, it must be you who haven’t taken care of it”
Taking care of a maintenance free chain?
I’ve cleaned it and given it a bit of oil on a cloth.
Don’t buy it, it’s not worth the money
But at 25k miles did you replace your sprockets as well for a fair review if not then this is void sorry, if you want to test something do it correctly. and make sure you fit the link correctly.
Always fitted new sprockets with chains.
If you clean and lube the M chain it will last at least 30.000km ...And that is good enough for me
Of course. Clean and lube any chain properly and you will get 25,00 km out of any of them. I’m getting 40,000 km out of my X ring chains now that I use an auto oiler.
The M chain was originally marketed by BMW as a lifetime chain with zero maintenance, zero adjustments. That was our testing criteria. BMW now admits it is only a low maintenance chain and pulled all the ads claiming zero maintenance.
I will be staying with DID X-ring chains.
I used a DID X ring. At 11,000 miles it had enough play in just a section of 10 links, it moved 1/2". Wasn't impressed at all. BikeMaster chain was the best so far, but I'm on my second RK GXW chain and they are showing promise. Two Factory chains were not bad either, but come solid, have to break and add a master.
@@longhaulpaul Thanks for the info. I have 8k miles on my DID chain and It's almost as good as new. I do run it loose and gear oil it every day. Also I don't ride at as high speeds at you.
Would love a video / article on chain recommendations tho :)
Someone needs to find out what KTM is doing. All my buds that have 790’s/890’s have their chains last 30k plus.
It's the heat build up from 15-16 hours nonstop at 80-90 mph that is sucking the life out of the metal. If a KTM was ridden the same, it would be similar. Even oiling it three times a day didn't help extend the life.
@@longhaulpaul man come on, It’s impossible to ride 15-16 hours nonstop every day or even every other day. If u r doing that, it’s not safe!
@@TWPeeps With Paul, it’s not only possible, it’s normal…. That’s his way of life!
@@stoney3398 this is the last I will say on the matter. I’m sure the guy is great and rides more than anyone, but 16 hours per day everyday would be from 6 a. m. to 10 p. m. I believe extradited somewhat, don’t u? No more comments from me. I really don’t give a crap!
Probably maintaining their bikes correctly, and not just trying to ride them to destruction! 😂
Simple, adjust the chain and make a good review off the chain.
Didn't you have to change a tire in 12k miles?
Yes, but I did not adjust or oil the chain. Just removed the axle and put it right back where it was.
thanks, NO BMW endurance chain for me thats for sure!
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