Jordan Peterson: Nice Guys and Their Tyrannical Fathers
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- Опубліковано 20 вер 2024
- Jordan Peterson talks about nice guys with tyrannical fathers and bad fathers. He gives advice on parenting, and preparing their development.
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This is from his 2015 Maps of Meaning 08a: Mythology: The Great Mother / Part 1 (Jordan Peterson), check out the full lecture here: • 2015 Maps of Meaning 0...
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As the son of a toxic and hyper-aggressive father, I tried to stay out of conflict and trouble because I didn't want to be like him, and it landed me in a bigger inner conflict. So I decided I won't act like a nice guy ever again. I am happy that i took that decision.
I am in a similar situation. Aside from not being a nice guy. What else would you recommend to do? I am trying to be more assertive and speak my mind more. Other than that I don’t know what to do.
@Hari how would you define nice guy?
Being nice or not isn't the problem, it's where you draw your borders and what you do to enforce them. There's a time and place for niceness, we all need that, but then there's also a time and place to be your own protector and stick up for yourself without going too far. Some people go too far, they are the aggressive ones. Don't be placid, have some teeth and claws it's your right as a natural predator.
Aggression is a blade that cuts both ways and has a barbs along the handle. As long as you can wield your aggression precisely, then you neither cut yourself or others.
How did you start the change?
Every time I listen to Dr Peterson I understand myself, and the life I've lived, a little better
More importantly I learn about the world around me.
Gen z aren't we...
Same
We'll said 👍
Well said 👍
I had a tyranical upbringing. Victim of bullying in school and at home. Now I have severe social anxiety.
I still try to be nice to everyone
I used to. I integrated my Shadow. I made very clear the conditions under which I would hit back. I found love first, then realized I can love hitting someone who hits first. I check if people want to connect or want to argue/fight. I'm down for both. I did the work, they can too or face the consequences. Anxiety gone.
Same case here
“You don’t want to grow up because you don’t want to become one thing instead of the many things you could become” - very relatable
you dont have to become one thing, you can be a complete human being. it just takes a bit more effort than committing to one thing and ignoring every other aspect of life. mr peterson here has a very skewed view of what it means to be human. all his talk about becoming good at what you do, is just distraction from his permanent existential crisis. if you can learn to be happy being average at what you do and enjoy your life, youve already done better than this bitter angry old man. he should read some more about buddhism or whatever instead of solely advocating this american cult of exceptionalism. none of it matters.
@@TheSuperappelflap yeah man some of us have had traumatic and suffered extremely as children . The last thing we need to keep full on pressure on our ourselves to be dangerous when you can approach your situation with compassion .
Great comment! His best phrase to think about.
I never had a tyrannical father, but the American school system is full of tyrants. I was a very outgoing child, but after getting into trouble at school for having fun in class (nothing objectively bad, just socializing), I guess I concluded that my behavior was wrong. Going into middle school I had a miserable experience just being an empty vessel trying to be a “good student”. My social skills started to better in high school and later college, but the lockdowns really set me back to square one. People who deal with children really need to think about how their actions affect their psyches. The school system imo is doing a terrible job of preparing children, men specifically, for the world. Being punished for not sitting still quietly in class probably ruined many years of my life, or maybe I’m just making excuses. Who knows.
"Maybe I'm just making excuses"
Yeah, nah, fuck the school system.
That's true. Always got "Talkive in class" comment on my report card. Covid lockdown literally killed all my social skills I'm so awkward now.
I liked school, but school didn’t like me.
You're not making excuses, all of that sounds pretty lucid.
the school system is the biggest destruction for young men in the modern world. either the boys become passive men or overly angry/violent and emotional men. ur definitely not making excuses
My mother left my father when I was four because he was violent, and I was constantly told about him growing up. Any time I expressed the slightest frustration, anger, or raised my voice I would be instantly told if I did not stop, I would turn out exactly like my father. I became a 'nice guy' as an adult, very agreeable, non-confrontational, low ambition, supressed negative emotions. But as I got older, I missed opportunities in all aspects of my life because I was not assertive, and people often take advantage of that. It was not until I was in my 40's (now 50) that I realised the harm this was causing me. Now I often will make a conscious effort to be disagreeable. I maintain boundaries. This does not mean aggression, but not letting fear rule (yeah bad things might happen in confrontations, but life always goes on, and opportunities always open up), openly disagreeing with people, being assertive, and not just accept what is handed to me, bargain for more. This has garnered far more positive outcomes and respect than being 'nice' all the time (I am still nice a lot, lifelong habits are hard to overcome). Hearing Jordan speak, he is articulating what I have been sub-consciously changing in my life for the last several years. I feel like more of my life is under my control now (though there is still further to go).
Yo Im glad you shared Darren. I have had a similar experience but starting to turn it around as well.
Non english native here, trying to really enforce what you wrote. A really insightful and honest comment from you, i really respect what you're communicating here, i related soo much. 🙏 Mothers in all their glory, they can do the absent fathers abuse too, evidently. She took it out on you man... The easy way. Something for the bitter moms to consider and be aware of. As a 30+ parent to 10 year olds, i at least TRY to give myself to my kids. Not the shit i've been handed.
Darren, Do you remember HOW? and the moment things clicked? I am so god damn afraid of having to deal with the consequences of standing up for myself even as a Manager at work.. my attitude is 'Fine ill do your work for you, its gotten me promoted over and over, But that has never fixed the fact that I still cannot tell people what to do, not because i lack the ability. i do not want to talk to people. as is, its hard enough to work up to tell someone agreeable what to do, when I see you dont WANT to work.. or need extra direction I shut down and just swalow that lump in my throat and just do it myself...and I continue to hate myself more and more everyday because of it.. i am weak, wtf is wrong with me? sorry for rambling has this ever felt like anything like you?
- A fellow nice guy
This resonates with me :)
@@robertmerrill4586 I can relate :)
"Crippled monster" is a harsh but accurate description of what mental illness felt like coming from this kind of dysfunctional family. Especially to have this kind of dysfunction normalized. It sucks to need validation to the point of spending years never questioning why people asked me throughout life whether "something happened" to me as a kid.
just try to not aim your anger at someone, use it tot fuel yourself thats my foregoing being a child of dysfunctional you know what.
Everyone comes from a dysfunctional family. The issue is HOW dysfunctional, what are the directions of the dysfunction, what is the direction to correct it, how much correction is over correction. Difficult to see this stuff in yourself. Difficult to cut your own hair. Difficult to see yourself as others see you. The only way to get clues is to get REALLY interested ( and empathetic, and sympathetic, and judgemental, and non judgemental) in other people, and in other people’s opinion on other people. You need to be equally interested in the shiny happy winning people, and the hideous fxxx ups, and all the people in between. You need to be as interested in them as yourself. Love your neighbour as your self. It is vital information gathering.
@@actionflower6706 Dysfunctional's got a direction? .. I don't know what system of coordination you're using here, but.. colour me interested. Got a hint? Some direction would be nice! 😉
@@sjoerdhartman9181 As in too judgemental vs. not judgemental enough, too carefree vs too rigid, and so forth.
@@sjoerdhartman9181 Well it is just a bog standard JBP sort of observation really. Do you beat your children with sticks to learn the alphabet? That is dysfunctional in one direction. Do you feed them chocolate ice cream and nothing but? That is dysfunctional in the opposite direction.
I had an aggressive father growing up. He was very stand-offish and quick tempered and struck fear into people including me. So I vowed to never be like him. I then realize that I became too damn agreeable. I agree with people so that I can get away from conflict. Not necessarily because I actually agree with them. It feels like my voice isn’t heard and then I get taken advantage of. What’s really helped me through it was learning how to fight. Learning how to be comfortable with the most extreme type of disagreement. I want to be nice but not harmless. I want to be nice because I choose to, not because I don’t have power.
The problem is that most parents are seeing in their children their retirement plans instead of their legacy for a World they would like to live in.
yeah and when a child does not "obey" they disregard you and go to the next child for elderly support, after they've walked all over you and fucked up your life, the first thing they do is voice their disappointment that you are not doing as well as they want in order to rely on you for support.
@@f4qebutuoy595 Word!
I would agree that the way parents do this today is not very helpful, but the idea that your children are your safety net for your old age is a very old phenomenon, and in itself, a very good thing. It's just that if you're a bad parent, you should have no expectation that your child will have any feeling of filial duty. If they do, it is in spite of you, not because of you. (IOW, it is all to the credit of the child, not the parent.)
@@f4qebutuoy595 this happened to me but with an added extra from one of my parents calling me a failure and a disappointment while giving neither parental or financial support to even achieve anything.
People should not have kids if they have have no interest in developing that childs life into something.
@@jamescrosby3431 Yeah, someone said something similair elsewhere this week - "If you don't love life, don't create life". In my case the problem was that my parents had it all planned out before hand, in their eyes I was a VCR cassette, what I wanted didn't matter, and they would spare no measure of force aggression, physical violence at trying to break me into their mold. People who think they rule over life. When you have a child you are supposed to nurture what nature has given you , not erase it and reprogram, this has turned out catastrophic.
I just got a better understanding of my dad and some of my rock hard friends with a 10 minute video than with years of therapy... everyone should have access to this early on, we would save so much time.
Share these ideas and start discussions on them so that the ones in need find out about these points of view. Feel free to challenge yourself with similar ideas on the MASTERY ORDER channel. We can all become better by debating such subjects and figuring out our way into mature manhood, regardless of our background. All the best to you!
Therapy is just a money grab.
They dont want to help you because that would end the cashflow for them. They need to keep you returning.
@@BrownBrown270 Therapy can only help you figure out certain things, but what you do with the realizations that you get from therapy is up to you. Most of the work is going to be done by you, anyhow. All the best to you!
I wish i had this advice when i was 15. I'm now 50 and I've lived my life not allowing myself to feel anger because of a violent father.
Same here. I'm 46 trying to get it together. I need to find the middle ground.
The fact of the matter is you can be a decent person, a wholesome being, whilst also having confidence and sticking up for yourself. Just because you fight for what you believe in doesn’t mean you’re not nice. Fight for the right things.
I understand what you are trying to say. I agree with it. But the line there is not clear. Once you start getting away for a fight for a selfish thing and you see the whole world do it, you might lose control and go down a bad path.
I question this. Who considers what is right?
My dad was most definitely tyrannical and even at almost 80 years old, he still has that temper. I was definitely a "nice guy" most of my life and to some degree still am. I have learned to have more confidence and stand up for myself more. It's amazing how we are shaped by our parents.
i havent learnt that still. people walk over me all the time
@@pr00009 I got over it when I read no more Mr nice guy. I think the guys name who wrote it is Glover.
Being a nice guy isn't that nice. You'll learn things like how unfair you are to people not to assert yourself and then to build resentment because people are not respecting your invisible boundaries and picking up on your subtle cues. Honestly we should be able to communicate in subtleties, it is a beautiful way to communicate, but people don't pick up on them and you aren't communicating what you think you are, which is unfair to people who want to respect your boundaries but are unaware of where they are
Fuck 41yo. Single father here…
Raising my 15yo, my 21yo is pretty well adjusted as a young man… We have a good relationship…
I am much smaller than my sons & I allow them to do what they want…
I do definitely have an anger & fear problem…
Honestly the last 2 years has me thinking everyone is better off without me…
Same as how I imagine I’d have been better off raised my chimps in the jungle…
Fuck…
@@pr00009 I’m sorry to hear that brother, I’ve started to learn to step up and stand up for myself, happened a couple of times at my last few jobs
My Father had a tyrannical parent and he definitely still has his temper. When he says stop - It's better to stop arguing, because he knows his limits. He has had a few moments where I've been punished, but has always felt terrible for it. My mother has been raised as a very good child and she can't hurt a fly.
So I am in a sense extreme ideologist with innovative mind that is always calm and nice, but I absolutely hate betrayal and use my manipulation to others when I am threatened.
It makes me feel good that my dad had a terrible time in his childhood and has done his best not to be like his father. He had to raise up to his dad and cast him out due to his tyranny. I never like to be angry and I absolutely never like to yell or argue with people.
But I am still very young. I know myself well enough that I am very careful how people get to me. I prefer to be nice to people, rather than be mean to them or not have a common ground.
People continue to run all over me and I hate when they're unjust to others put in simple. I work with them all, yet I trust none...I don't know..
My old man was a vicious bully all of my life until one day when I was about 18 or so I stood up and got in his face. He was a 6'1" ex-cop Korean War vet and I thought for sure he'd put my lights out - but he didn't. He actually listened to me and from that day forward all that abuse just seemed to evaporate, and overtime we developed a great relationship. As for me, well I'm still a pretty easy-going guy but I learned that day that I don't need to take crap from anybody.
So he did his job is what your telling us.
Basically
tbh I don't think that your father was a bad person from the begining - as you told he is a Korean War vet. I think that what he experienced during the war changed his psyche forever in a way that only other veterans can understand... especially if he was drafted or manipulated by governmental propaganda. I think that huge majority of population would not stand war.
I also think that a lot of actual soldiers neither.
I have a similar story and I think that's exactly what they're looking for... They see that we are kinda pussies and they want us to stand up for ourselves...
That s actually really insteresting, because when I was a child when my father used to have "tyrant behavior" I would often try to stand up for myself, but I would end up just getting into more trouble. One day when I was 16 or 17 (i dont quite rember) I stood up for myself, because he was being violent harrassing me and threating me like was going to beat me. I wasnt scared, i was so tired of the abuse that I wanted to fight him and knew now that I could beat him. Since that day, he never threated me again and he's now a likeable person that I love very much, It's like he understood my pain or felt like I finnaly could fuck him up and got scared.
The world need more teachers like Dr Peterson
Feel free to challenge yourself with similar ideas on the MASTERY ORDER channel. We can all become better by debating such subjects and figuring out our way into mature manhood, regardless of our background. All the best to you!
1 is enough
The whole World has access to Dr. Peterson. Good times!
I could listen to Jordan Peterson talk all day. Nothing but truth, love, compassion, and an overwhelming urge to ease people’s suffering. You opened my eyes so I can become a better man. I’ll never forget the impact this man has had on my life. Love you Dr.Peterson. Keep doing what you’re doing. The world needs more strong people.
I'm glad
My dad used to beat me with a bamboo cane that was named “Karl’s stick” by my brothers and my mum. It hurt like hell. My mum would beat me too if I really stepped out of line with my ‘mouth’.
Anyway at 36 I sweat excessively from head to toe and shake almost uncontrollably due to extremely bad nerves which started around the time as the beatings. Like Mr Peterson said I ended up in Prison at 18 after my dad died.
I am literally the most agreeable ‘nice guy’ there is to the point where I was bullied off several bad people in my life time including a woman that destroyed my entire life for 8 years because I did nothing but be nice and try and do all the helpful things she asked me to do.
She was never even my girlfriend. She just hated me and was my neighbour. I still find it hard to say no to people and I’m frightened to death of confrontation. I got in shape in the gym hoping it would repel any bullies. But they see through it when I start to Talk and start to take advantage again.
Peace ✌️
That's tough, I've had similar upbringing where parents and cousins would beat the hell out of me as I was missing classes and other things but when I grew up, I looked at all those stressors in early childhood as strength and had similar effect as David Goggins in his book "can't hurt me" and whenever I'm facing challenges in life, I always tell myself if my 8 year old me got all those physical and emotional abuse and took it, I can certainly handle anything now. You should go get a therapist, I think that will help you alot in figuring out a coping mechanisms.
Brother what my advice will be track down people who bully other people and stand for them... Automatically you will be strong because then you will stand for the weak. ☮️ Take care.
Go to an mma or BJJ gym man. Its good to know what you're made of and most gyms are very supportive of us pushover types trying to make positive change.
@Dhirajkumar Gupta I did eventually start fighting back.. I told the bully woman that I was no longer afraid of her and I got the police on her when she last hit me.
They still didn’t arrest her but they stopped her from ever abusing me again either physically or verbally. After 8 years of suffering from it she finally is moving out to a new house tomorrow which I’m so relieved about.
As for the most violent male bully I ended up hitting him in the face with half a house brick and his friends beat me up and I spat the blood all in their faces whilst screaming at them that I was no longer afraid.
I get called psychotic when I finally react back to the bullying because it’s not the fact that I’m ‘weak’ or something… It’s just that people mistakenly take me for a pushover by default
It’s important that they stop doing it, new people that I meet, because when I react back I can be quite ruthless.
I just want to not have them take me for a fool from day one to avoid any of that stuff
@@mackcarlo brother now that you know what you want I would suggest you take some time to process information when you feel they are taking you for a fool. Stop process feel the information and stop them right in their tracks and MOST IMPORTANTLY DON'T REGRET YOUR GOOD NATURE. and make some real buddies for life my friend, not everyone is competing with everybody.
I am this person. I am placid outwardly but inwardly often angry. My dad would fly into terrifying rages when I was a kid and I think that's kind of blocked off anger to me and left me presenting this false placidity to the world.
Me too plus very anxious
I often question myself if I am being genuine
Sort of imposter syndrome
so thats why im so socially awkward and quite literally an outcast, yet people complement me for being nice
I think Mr Peterson is reflecting something in his own childhood here.
He has spoken very little about his father, but when he has done, he was described as a 'disciplinarian', and as Peterson is a very agreeable and sensitive soul, he might of seen his father as 'tyrannical'.
I reacted to the idea of parents as embodying our first model of the world though the lens of gender. My father was in many ways a narrow person. I wish I had been able to help him become free, but he wouldn't have it, and now he is gone.
His argument is supported by fairly universal truths. I'm from Pakistan, and I've seen people from different backgrounds, some things are pretty much constant across the board and hard to argue against in a general sense.
@@ultraali453 yeah i agree. Generally speaking i have seen many men emotionally crippled by their father's. Same with mothers as well. Oppression through compassion.
@@davidhawley1132 father's/men typcially are. I am thankful to not be like that. I definitely have an overbearing mother. I worked a lot with women mainly, so that had more of an impact on my personality that anyone else. Saying that, my mother's voice still lingers in my head everyday.
i dont consider this guy agreeable at all. he's arrogant and aggressive and almost always yelling in that high pitched voice. which makes this video pretty funny.
The comment section is so relatable that its actually relaxing for me and it feels kinda good to have so many people who know exactly what you have been through and why you are they way you are. The inner problems and conflicts a guy has when he has an abusive father is so difficult to explain even to a guy who hasn't been in a position we have. It becomes quite confusing and suffocating sometimes. Over the years you learn about yourself, but it generally takes a long time and until then you will be very lucky if you find someone who can gel with you and understand you and support you. 🙃 Plus we always have to be ready when someone compares us to our father, it feels violating and very hurtful, it feels like a betrayal when people throw something like that in your face just to even out the score in a petty fight. I extend my love, support and regards to all the tough guys who had an abusive father but they made sure that a nice family comes from them and they try their best to be the best version of a man possible, especially to their children. 💯
I think part of this problem is that some men don't realise that they've been abused and continue to hurt others. If you stand up to them often you don't get anger back but confusion like "what have I done?" Like it's normal to intrude on others or be disrespectful.
My father wasn't what I would call tyrannical, but his siblings did call him that bugger Nels.
I remember the first report card I brought home from highschool. (I had previously been a poor student) I was now a 90%er. I was proud of my improvements . My fathers comment was "Too bad you lost the other 10%" . My father was not what one would call a grand successful person even though he was a CA but he had zero business sense.
little man dad. Frustrated at his own incompetence
If you had the other 10% it still wouldn’t have been good enough for him. Fuck that guy.
Sounds like your father may be emotionally stunted.
Realistically that is the kind of immature behaviour I’d expect from a child or young teenager.
He was projecting his incompetence onto you
Not a good man
You’re better than him
I once came 2nd in a race and my father said "You still couldn't be first''
Glad to see these messages out there. Share the word my brothers since most of us had a rough background, and in all the confusion left by the people in our lives that didn't care as much, there is hope through messages like these to become better men. I found this channel that puts focus on similar things: MASTERY ORDER. The dude is very direct and sometimes he might seem harsh, but the info is golden.
Cheers, mates! May the world become a better place with you in it!
Where is Master Order ?
I typed it into UA-cam and nothing came up
Is it a website ?
@@wallybingbang4350 It is a youtube channel MASTERY ORDER, not master order. try with copy-paste. Cheers.
Growing out of this is really a liberating thing. Everyone should be wary of shitty parents, even your own.
I really wish I would've seen this video back in early 2019, but I'm still glad that I saw it now. Being the nice guy isn't worth it. Deal with conflict while it's relevant. An unpleasant moment now is better than a lifetime of regrets. I'm just glad that it isn't too late for me yet.
Balance. Everything in balance. The ability to harm with the control only to harm when absolutely necessary.
My father made the mistake of isolating me from others because he thought i would pick up bad habits and learn bad things from them, thus I never learned to make connections, to this day I can not make good friends, and I remember him banning me from showing any emotion at home, thus as soon as I legally could I left the house and isolated myself in a small room far away, only leaving the house for groceries, morning jogs and work
Hey, that's good you can make friends on UA-cam :) And hey, I think it's great to leave the house for groceries, we need groceries!
Relatable for me :-/ the worst thing is, he is never gonna admit any wrongdoings. He just says I was already born broken.
Brother -- you're describing my life now-- jogs. Groceries. Work. That's it. I rent a room that's basically a box. Crazy. And I'm in my 40s. I also grew up in that isolationist kind of home. Rarely entertained guests or family. So now I realize I isolate myself when I don't need to . No responsibilities if wife and kids so I should be traveling and getting around. I'm not. That needs to change
this guy is a wizard when it comes to psychology this is exactly what happened to me my dad was violent and alcholic growing up i was scared and would always avoid conflict now 6'2" 200 pounds outside i would appear intimidating but still a nice guy who's life is very hard being even a little assertive is a huge task for me!! i am trying to stand up for me
hang in there man hope it gets better
@@snatcherofpeachs thanks brother
I had a short-tempered tyrant father as a kid, it killed my confidence as a child. everyone assumed i was a good child who did what he was instructed, although I only did things to avoid the wrath of my father. I gained some confidence back when I left for university but I still avoid conflict and even a regular banter between two of siblings can wake me up from sleep in a heightened state.
Sorry to hear about that. check out CPTSD, some people can have flashbacks like this.
Wow.....being seen as a good child when you're just a normal kid
I am listing to this for the 5th time now, I have a 2 year old son and his talented and very tough, and isn't very agreeable but also so very loving, he is also in a pre-pre-preschool now. Myself and my son, when we are alone have a perfect relationship, we have so much fun and he is already loving mountain biking, and he has so much balancing talent and enthusiasm, and trust I'll catch him while going down hill, I've listen to Jordon for a while now
Sent this to my two daughters (HS senior and college junior) this morning and asked them to watch it today. I'm watching it with my bride of 27 years this morning. This guy is so honest and passionate. Every answer is a gem - clearly thought out and precisely expressed. He's a verbal surgeon.
hes a con artist who has more mental problems than most people in this comment section
If you are a nice guy like me and have a hyper-assertive father. Understand this, he is acting out of emotions. Act out of logic, don't be like him. When he see this he will respect you in such a way that he wants to change. A calm state of mind is what he doesn't have. Next define your limits and be non-negotiable.
This just pisses my dad off more, especially because I can remain cucumber cold in my veins when doing it. He’ll be screaming and I’m just barely above a “talking to the room” register.
It’s fun, it feels good to know my composure pisses him off. It means I’m winning, but the loss is: No matter how I act, he’ll always be a raving screaming monster
Growing up I thought my dad was embarrasing. I think that led me to be so self-aware to not have my friends think I was embarrasing.
You are not your father. I wish you strength and willpower to become the kind of man you would admire and look up to, regardless of how your past was. All the best to you!
What i love About JP videos is that people Share their thoughts and experiences and you can learn from it!!
"The problem with that is you get old..." I know he's talking to young people, but age brings a different range of potential development. Maybe you're not as physical or energetic, but if you've made it to 50 you've a stock of experience. Don't give up, oldies!
I think you missed the point a bit. It’s not about being physical or energetic. It’s the neural links in your brain that diminish. The ones in use become cemented and rigid and the rest die. The potential of how you could be dies and is replaced with what you are. That’s why it’s so hard to change how you think as you get older
@@ChristianSedaPlays How old are you talking when you say their neurone become 'cemented and rigid and the rest die'? Granted I might be calling people old who really aren't by the measure of Dr Peterson in this statement.
@@youbigtubership Research shows once you reach age 25 cell death starts to outpace cell reproduction but as far as neural links go they start to go down from childhood u til the time of death. That’s why children can easily pick up languages with minimal effort and it becomes harder and harder as you get older.
@@ChristianSedaPlays That simply makes the continuum longer, and the decline more spaced apart or maybe gradual. Anyway, difficulty in acquiring a skill may or may not be an indicator of decline. Could be simply the availability of mental capacity or resources. It's much harder to pick up something new when your brain is occupied with 10 things as compared with 1. And if you are low iq, even more so.
The thing about refusing to manifest the anger - you're caging a bull and fearing it will escape, and over time it will leak out of you more and more until you learn to take control of it, instead of keeping it all caged up.
You can't work with what you don't know..
"If you can't push back they're gonna walk all over you. They won't even notice, because you'll just move."
That's literally how one year old children behave.
As a young male child, we do what we can to balance out the bullshit in the house.
That comment about Anger just blew my mind.
Dude, Im literally having a therapy session listening to this.
What he said explained so much.
This is education. Therapy is digging deep, like deep tissue massage of muscles but for the mind. Very worth it with the right therapist imo
Thank you for a brilliant talk!
These are the greatest days of Peterson. Before he became a political icon and started becoming a motivational speaker, he was just a guy helping you make sense of yourself.
He still does? He still records all his lectures and puts them up for free viewing to the public
I just saw him live last week, he's still the same guy, a little bit less energy when speaking because he's older, but he's still an amazing lecturer with lots of wisdom to share.
He’s become really repetitive in his ideas lately. He basically just talks about post modernism and why the individual must take up responsibility to become self actualized. It’s a played out idea at this point. For someone with such a wealth of knowledge, it would be great to hear him discuss a wider variety of thoughts and subjects.
I’d check out some of his latter stuff, he’s really refined his talking points and evidence for it.
Somethings the truth is hard to handle but yes I wouldn’t listen to his talks on climate change for example.
On the point of being repetitive, in psychology Frued’s research and findings from 80 years ago are still used to day and are the foundations of psychology.
You may not like it but if you want to understand these concepts better you can read the scientific papers he refers to.
What can you teach someone they already know…
Letting go of my children is the hardest thing I've ever done.
😂
Oh god I hope they weren't dangling off a cliff or something
I had a tyrinacal childhood. I ended up becoming a problem child. Broke chairs, tore seats etc in school. Fought teachers etc. But i changed when i was around 24. Now i am more peaceful than i ever was
Having only a negative example helps prevent one from doing evil. However, it doesn't instruct you as to how to be good either.
At work, I'm surrounded by fatherless guys half my age who are looking for a strong male role model (or rather they want me to stand in that place). I see this and think, "I don't know what to tell you guys. I can teach you to respond in a patient, positive, and productive manner. However, I can't teach you how to be good."
I had to cobble an image together from various bits of tv, movies, fiction, and my imagination. Even then, I failed at being a husband and equal partner.
There's something primal in the interactions. These guys want an underlying assurance we'll be okay. I don't have those answers but I hold it together and try to be as confident as I can.
I’m a nice guy. I try to please everyone. I tend to prioritize the needs of others over my own and I’m constantly worried about failing others or being judged. I put more effort into fulfilling others rather than fulfilling myself. I have a lot of obligations eating up my life because I struggle with saying “no”. I am not a hostile or aggressive person and have never really had a desire to be. My father was not a tyrant.
There’s nothing wrong with being a “nice guy”. There is something wrong with being insecure about yourself and who you are. Learning to separate those two things is what leads to happiness. I don’t need to “win” to feel secure. I don’t need to have success to feel fulfilled. I don’t need to be in charge of others to feel in charge of myself. Despite not having all the assertive qualities of a leader, I’m not unhappy with myself or my achievements. I’m very accomplished in a number of fields, do well at my job as a teacher, and have a number of hobbies I cultivate without the need for aggression or hostility. I think a lot of the things discussed in this video have to do with the insecurity that comes from living with a tyrannical parent, not from a lack of aggression or desire to be too much of a “nice guy”. People who are taught to internalize success and failure by tyrannical parents set themselves up for disappointment, because they base their sense of self worth on an external factor that either is or is not achieved, rather than reflecting on the growth that they experience along the way.
that last part is basically my story. I don't feel like I'm prepared for the world and my father always made decisions for me in a tyrannical way while my mother had anxiety over me. I found myself social at school but unable to break the fear of meeting people outside of school. I was terrified. I still have trouble making decisions and putting myself out there to this day. In fact, it's crippling. I often think about how much potential was crushed because I was a creative, intelligent, and socially adept person. I'm 26 but I really feel like I'm middle aged. I still live with my parents and am unemployed with a masters degree that I'm finishing up this year. I do not have any friends but have a social circle with my family (cousins and their friends) that live a state over. I'm very anxious and am afraid to move forward
Does anyone have any advice?
my advice is to live for you. forget the family. just make you moves.
Dare to make the decisions which seem right for you regardless of what your parents may think
just move and live youre life f them or else you will be the same guy in 20 years
Get out from the university - Get a job in a large organisation or department where you will be able to meet many different people a few of which you will like and can become friends. Do not underestimate the importance of having a few friends they are very important in life- You main problem is probably your social anxiety - try TM meditation. There are 2 reasons I see why people dont have friends - shyness anxiety which doesnt mean people wont like you if you get out there. Second reason is out going people with character or personality problems and people withdraw from them once they meet them - that is a way worse problem. You dont even let people meet you
Move out asap, get therapy and meditate
I always find my self coming back to this specific lecture because I see so much of what he says in my self.
I've been a nice guy all my life and I'm trying to work through my kinks. I turned down a job offer for the first time just a few moments ago which was a scary experience for me. I feel bad because I turned up for an interview earlier trying to get the job only to say no a few hours afterwards, but I did it because it was best for me.
I've been trying to say 'no' more frequently when people are asking too much of me. I've been trying to be more assertive, direct and upfront which is bloody hard for me. The other day I received a text message from my agency telling me that my work hours had gone back to normal, even though I was never informed of a change. Now usually I'd just assume it was a generic message sent to everyone and that nothing would go wrong only to later find out they made a mistake and underpaid me, which I likely wouldn't challenge because it was only a few £ difference. But this time as soon as I got the message I directly called them up to ensure that no mistake had been made and that I'd been paid correctly. I felt like a bit of a fool because it was just a generic message sent to everyone, but it was a step forward from my usually passive self.
Breaking out of this nice guy thing is really tough though because there are some thing that I'd rather keep, like being polite, considerate and generous. I also don't want to be aggressive. But at the same time I don't want to get walked over. As it is right now, I'll fight if I'm dragged into a fight but I'll never start one. But sometimes I need to start a fight. And deciding how and when to start that fight is a tough lesson to learn.
This whole thing is tough.
I did what you are trying to do in order to achieve what you are trying to achieve between the ages of 21-27. Believe me, the small stuff adds up. A lot.
@@depressedessendonfan5702 I'm essentially in a 1/4 life crisis because of it.
@@8Maduce50 Keep fighting mate. every little form of 'protest' or 'resistance' helps. Those seeds grow big. I cannot tell you how liberating it was at first to be able to look anyone in the eye and say, with complete clarity and commitment, 'Go fuck yourself' and laugh at them. It is worth the struggle.
@@depressedessendonfan5702 Its a great feeling to be able to do that and feel good about it, knowing that I did it to defend myself. Its a work in progress though
"dont ask for a lighter load, ask for a stronger back." - some hippy, about 2000 years ago
Tyrannical father is exactly what I had. A beefed up, former marine, police officer, swat team sniper.. etc. Alpha of the alpha males. Opersted everything through intimidation and physically dominsting you if the intimidating didnt work. Our relationship was shit, our struggles were vast. However, I'm 34 now and now that all that is said and done... he made so many mistakes but im thankful he raised me this way, rather than raising me soft. Many trials and tribulations I've been through in life, pailed in comparison to what I'd been through. In the long run It gave me strength and confidence, that many of my peers did not have.
How come the worst cases are ALWAYS fucking cops? Why is that?
I've had a look at t of personal struggles. They're ongoing. I always reach out to Peterson to boost myself. It's encouraging to know that he's gone through hard times, too. He's truly a model of the "wounded healer". I often wonder how I turned out the way I did; I couldn't complain about my childhood, & I'm certainly not here because I had a "tyrannical" father. I will say it's so important to cultivate your relationships with your father & mother. They're not around forever...
Glad to hear it brother. Your 100% right about the importance of a close relationship w/ your parents, hope u are doing well now man love you
What if they are shitty lol?
@@skirucar199 ig in that case try to move away as much as you can. You dont need negative people in your life. Maybe try to make them change but some people just cant sadly.
There’s such a beautiful and essential balance in this. Why it’s important for a man to be in the house and for children to be exposed and to express all emotions.
At 4:50 I can further drive home the point with my personal anecdotal evidence. I used to hate being forced to learn about subjects that didn't interest me and present in front of the class amongst other things.
I found that when I could justify my annoyance and turn it into anger, my social inhibitions would just melt. When I was angry about having to present I'd go up there speak up, act more assertive, be very blunt and express my ideas and thoughts without filter (obviously still respectful, but i'd think more out loud than being lost in my internal world). This translated into me looking very confident and able to express my creative ideas in the same natural way I would think them. But this time without the fear of judgement holding me back.
My presentation grades significantly improved afterwards, I had found a way to channel the energy and lack of fear that comes from anger into a constructive way. I now do this too if I need to stand up for myself and confront someone that's pushed me over.
I can't like this enough; good for you.
I always felt I was under the threat of my dad. At almost 50, I can tell you, I am simply not intimidated by people. It's like a switch goes off where I will have some fear and then I am just angry and won't back down. I know it isn't normal but it is nice not fearing people.
I feel this… Hence the reason why I cut my parents out of my life🤙🏾 Best way to progress in life for me
Finally made that plunge a week ago. 7-8 years over due, but better late than never right?
What happened
Definitely not the best route for everyone.
This guy’s amazing, and literally everything he says is spot-on, resonates with us, and (personally) makes me extremely happy, content, and proud to be pretty much entirely myself...pretty much all the time. That’s hard to do in the world...especially nowadays.
PS. Nobody can be 100% themselves 100% of the time, because there are societal norms of behaviour and conduct which we all have to follow, or risk complete ostracism. Sad but true. 🤷♂️😔
If we are a reflection of the world, then what does it say about the world when so many men are killing themselves?
Neurochemical reactions are unconscious and instinctive.
Neurochemical reactions trigger emotions that produce feelings.
Feelings are our conscious experience of emotions.
The purpose of feelings is to prompt us to take actions that will restore homeostasis.
Homeostasis is the condition of optimal functioning where there are steady internal physical and chemical conditions.
The critical component of healthy development and emotional stability is to accurately identify the stimulus that is causing a neurochemical reaction.
This is accomplished through using the conscious experience of feelings to act as a guide of where to focus conscious attention.
Healthy development depends on accurately identifying the cause of a feeling so that human being can consciously respond to what's so-- and thereby does not resort to strategies that block consciousness.
Jordan's son is overwhelmed with emotional reactions for the same reason that Mikhaila is full of guilt and suffering from autoimmune issues.
Jordan listens and speaks with an intention to hide the stimulus/cause of his son's feelings/emotions/neurochemical reactions.
This conflict between Julian's actual experience, and his father's strategies to hide, is causing Julian to accumulate emotional incompletions that are causing him unbearable stress.
Julian and Mikaila are emotionally trapped inside their parent's disconnected emotional example.
What would you advice them to do, in order to get out of being "emotionally trapped" ?
@@PG-qn8od It's a matter of focusing conscious attention on experiencing what Jordan and I are doing, missing, and trying to exclude from our view.
When I focus conscious attention on what we are doing, missing, and trying to exclude from our view, I am providing the example that was and is missing.
Parents default to speaking advice and assertions about what others/children should do, where they are not an example of where to focus conscious attention.
I just wanna say my entire life I've been a nice guy. I dont have a tyrannical father, I have a great father. I've just always had a a laid back nature with a tendency to want to help other people and make people happy. maybe I'm wrong or mis-understanding of the definition of a nice guy but I feel I fall into that category and as a result it has helped me forge friendship and support from people when I need it. That being said I have made major efforts to be independent and be more assertive as I was being taken advantage of and mis-understood in some relationships.
It's just my natural personality. All I'm trying to say is that sometimes its just people's nature to be nice and not the result of toxic parents. more nature over nuture
I relate to this very strongly. My father wasn’t a tyrant, but he was a bit distant and carried a lot of anger against the harshness and “unfair” nature of life. He wasn’t abusive, but it’s hard for me to think of him as an empathic and loving figure. Anyway, I now find myself as a very “nice guy” who also is VERY disagreeable on the inside, as well as married with three sons. I’m starting to feel a level of ‘tired’ where I am coincidentally also starting to understand (maybe) where neglectful (or worst-case, abusive) parenting can originate.
My dad was chill and outgoing and too nice, had different of kinda friend.. maybe perhaps why the good and bad and ugly are attracted to my mannerism and politeness.. i would say im more of polite person then a nice person.. cause im a G lol
I think you're conflating being a generally well round nice person and the pathologically 'nice guy' that this video refers to. The pathologically nice guy suppresses all his negative emotions, fails to set boundaries or assert himself when it would be perfectly legitimate to do so; his niceness it not so much a reflection of his inner emotional positivity and well being, rather a coping mechanism developed to assuage those in his surroundings. I can speak well to this because I had to overcome many of these tendencies. My default with people is still always to be nice but I had to learn the hard way how to stand up for myself and prevent some unscrupulous people from taking advantage of some of my weaknesses. It was hard work but it was worth it. Let me know if you see it differently, it just sounds to me like you are describing the personality of a healthy nice person, who of course may still get taken advantage of or need to work on a few things, but isn't nice as part of some sort of survival or coping strategy.
@@liammelia6843 mr peterson isnt making that distinction either. he seems like an egotistical asshat if i hear him talk like this. lots of people see being gentle as weakness. its a kind of aggressive confrontational zero sum game personality that is cultivated by capitalist society, especially now that the cracks in the system are starting to show and everyone is feeling the squeeze. people who do bad things to other people get paid lots of money for it, but if everybody tried to get along a bit better we would all be better off.
Ok so there’s a difference between being nice to make someone feel good and being nice out of appeasement and avoiding conflict.
Jordan Peterson specifically stated people would chose not to express negative emotions and leaving them in a stunted, appeasing nice state.
Oh my God. Fuck. This is me. This is so completely honest and true. I've never had the words, but there you go. Holy shit. What do I do?
I've always been disagreeable. My parents both valued that highly. I've always had issues with nice guys, because I know, as a man, how they feel. And I know they're effectively lying about their state of mind. I hate liars. And I always wonder who they're lying FOR.
It doesn't happen often (obviously) that I get into conflict with an agreeable person. But when I do, I try to point out that the problem is they're trying to please everyone, _when there's one right answer._ That they're useless if they believe something, but don't speak up, or act on it.
Frankly, I try to make them angry, and argumentative. I act like everything they're saying is external, "oh who told you to say that?", or I question whether they're really committed to their idea. I tell them if they just want to be a spectator, shut up and spectate, while the thinkers think and the dooers do.
Finally they speak their mind, angrily, like that's somehow going to punish me. Then I smile, thank them for their honesty, and we do things 100% their way. Do I make friends like this? No, thankfully; I don't have spineless friends, they scare me. Do I change their minds? Don't know, don't really care. They torture themselves, not me.
Well said that man, you are definitely on point! 👊🏾
youre the one torturing yourself by trying to prove that the way you live your life is somehow superior. try being nice to people, smile and they will smile back at you and this will make both of you happy. this state of mind youre in isnt going to make anyone happy. youre just an argumentative twat. do some meditiation and work through your issues.
@TheSuperappelflap what’s the bet you’ve got kids that hate you lol.
@@captaron dont have kids yet, and i have a good relation with both of my parents.
They're lying for their parents.
My dad hit me and lashed out on me in anger even in the most tiniest thing when I was a kid and I didn't tell anyone much because of course you also have to protect the image of your parent but, I wonder what kind of effect it did? I took my anger out on someone else when I was little and I wasn't aware, it was like a reflex. Maybe deep down I hated my dad but was just a coward to accept it because it's bad to do so, and actually I remember more bad things than good from him and I knew he was sorry, I just couldn't forgive him because he keeps repeating it, but God helped me forgive and He fills the broken spaces which I think was a miracle. Sigh............. It's weird, because it didn't come from me, it was something outside of me that helped me. But in short it's not nice to be treated harshly by a male figure in your childhood especially when you're female I guess. I mostly remember anger and neglect and pressure, and I got fed up. Broken adults help make broken children. Good thing God gives chances.
Oh, man. You could build a house with that laptop.
It even has a CD drive !
Haven't seen one of those built-in in a loooong time
@@jackdiamonds8734 I miss CD drives. They should have made Bluray standard for new laptops and pcs.
Just be thankful that there is no overhead projectors present in this video
@@Sagewinnemain We use overhead projectors at my University!
Yes they suck!
Lol--looks like the Dell I bought way back in 2003.
“anti-oedipal approach , if parents don’t want their child to leave - you don’t end up with a child, you end up with a crippled monster in the cupboard”. brilliant observation - and I’ve seen it with certain families, totally tragic!
it sure beats getting kicked out of your parents house at age 17
This to hard to chose, but I am going to say being psychologically crippled by a brain washing Tryranical father or an undermining Narcissistic mother is by far way worse later in life.
If there is a government system that helps teens find a welfare home till they stabilize their life then it is great, but if the teen gets swayed by other delinquents then its not great.
But being brainwashed by a fear mongering Tryranical father and an undermining Narcissistic mother is way way more detrimental to developing your own self confident and independant adulthood and social life. And that comination makes a crippled paralysed adult who are incapable of being self reliant and self sufficient in adulthood. I can attest you this without doubt. I have both type of parents. It is a form of control and brain washing, if you add in sexual abuse, sexual humiliation, and verbal abuse and you will have an underdeveloped adult child that will never leave their parents because their esteem has been seized. Btw these personality traits parents exhibit may not show in social public settings, but do show only in the homes.
This is why psychological imprinting is from 0 to 11 years old, after that the child begins to concrete their own self into adulthood. Thats the age of brainwashing from thier home/family/environment.
I don’t know anyone like that. All the guys I know with tyrannical fathers became tyrannical themselves
I'm a nice guy and I had a completely undisciplined childhood. I was a troublemaker in school and manipulated or charmed my way out of all negative consequences, getting into fights and being 'too nice' to start them. Never getting my nose bloodied. Never anything. Literally anything.
To this day, I am still quite charming and manipulative. But also simultaneously incredibly glad that I did not end up becoming a sociopath. I love my empathy and I love other people. And I believe traditionally negative personality traits, such as a desire to get into trouble and a desire to manipulate or fight or experience violence should be fostered. Just in a safe way.
I effin love everything. My best friend is a girl, my favourite passtime is playing artistic video games, my interests are everything in the world. I hate this concept that we must be a certain way, or a version of the self that works for society. If you are honest and genuine (especially about yourself) and care about others in a base fashion, they will adore you and you can rocket your way up through any obstacle.
Just be you. The most considerate and genuine version of you.
I agree with you. Nice comment.
You don't sound like you're suffering from the nice guy traits, usually nice guys are afraid of authority so behave in school and very rarely get in fights if at all.
@@KayJayFusion You think? In my experience its meatheads with huge egos who tend to want to kowtow to authority. People who have it easier or who are more thoughtful have the time to introspect and begin to question it.
The military hires fighters, not philosophers and romantics. =P
@@jaieet That's true but there's a big difference between realising injustice and having the courage to do something about it. Like Jordan said in the video, nice guys will identify when someone has wronged them but they don't stand up for themselves in the moment and become resentful when they reflect on the matter. The same would go for authority I'd say, they might not like obeying their superiors but they won't do anything about it.
@@KayJayFusion I definitely resent people who wrong me and try to avoid conflict (I picked fights with people out of sheer thrill, not to problem solve). If the issue isn't big to me, then I generally let it slide or otherwise find some place better suited to my personality.
Picking fights and standing up to every injustice you spot sounds like a surefire way to burn yourself out and just generally be annoying to be around for others.
Weird that we've gone full circle to JP advocating for SJWs :P
If you had a tyrannical mom/dad you will continuously attract that type of person into your life eg.spouse,coworker,nieghbor,frenemies...because your mission as an adult in the school of life is to re-live it until you develop what was stunted in your childhood....don't believe me? Well...if you are or have worked on yourself this type of tyrannical person will slowly have vanished from your life and you integrated your dark side into a full personhood.Those that haven't will continuously meet their dark side in another human until you integrate it into yourself...or you just hide from it in addictions instead of the courageous challenge of growing up past your wounded self.Been there...done that...passed the exam.
Don't forget tyrannical mothers. Forget about anger; even so much as politely raising an existential concern could lead to the mother crying and yelling for hours and saying "maybe if I'm not helping anyone, I should just run away and never come back"
Anger is our inner fire. It’s what has kept us alive as creatures for millennia. My stepfather was the only one in our house allowed to use that fire… which led to weak ineffectual sons let loose into the world to be walked on by all the monsters of the world.
I',m a 39 year old man, I'll be 40 this year. This really hit home, I'm in a really bad place and I need to believe it's not to late for me, does anyone now how I can address the character problems that Peterson describes here?
I found a lot of help listening to his 2017 lecture series. God bless brother
Dr Peterson has a future authoring program. You might try it.
Good luck!!
Can confirm both of above work.
Also, just watch any Jordan Peterson, for a start, you will find what works for you & what doesn't, through time.
Clean your room.
MARTIAL ARTS AND BOXING. DO IT NOW. LOFE CHANGING STUFF. WHO CARES IF YOU SUCK. MOST PEOPLE DO
My Dad was loving and caring and wonderful but (and?) he knew how to wield a *thunderous* voice to discipline me as i was growing up and that undoubtedly had a positive impact on me ☺️ thanks Dad
My step father was abusive and crazy. I was tossed around from family to family, and became a people pleaser. I thought I was the parents favorite cause I helped with the dishes etc. I became very rebellious. I had no respect for authority and became physically aggressive. I didn't know why, but I remember wanting people to be scared of me. 15 years later I realize my step father made me feel completely powerless. I acted out in a destructive way because it gave me a little bit of personal power. Even though it was completely made up it my mind.
I was never afraid of my father except for a couple times when he’d be mad with how I played at the baseball game. He just wanted me to do my best and I didn’t always give that.
I think a lot of my problem sadly was that I was raised really Christian and naive about the world and how it worked. I was always nice to people that sometimes deserved me getting angry with them. I didn’t defend my thoughts and feelings enough. I was brought up to turn the other cheek and not be a bad person. I hate to say it but we’re supposed to be mean and use our anger sometimes to preserve ourselves. There’s a fine line but nobody deserves to be put down or feel less than. There was a couple times I wished I had stood up for myself more and you remember those later in life.
remember Jesus overturning vendors'/money changers' tables in the temple. remember the times he rebuked satan. be gentle as a dove and cunning as a snake.
being a (real) christian is nothing at all like ned flanders of simpsons' fame.
My father is an emotionally abusive narcissist and lacks empathy so I haven't seen or spoken to him in a long time.
This hits hard. Drunk abusive stepdad, vowed to not be like him. I never realized that anger is a thing to be control and harnessed for good. fk i need therapey
Hey keep watching JP videos
So this whole time Peterson was driving down to the Niagara peninsula and observing me and my dad for some kind of study.
I'm so glad. A great dad is HALF a tyrant. Dad is a tyrant but I had a good one. Real tough, no mistakes. So glad, couldn't ask for better.
This guy is a rocket scientist. He makes so much sense.
Thanks for explaining my dad. Pretty sure I rebelled like crazy cus he never put his foot down and gave me boundaries
"speak softly and carry a big stick; you will go far."
People are lucky to have a father much less a tyrannical one its a matter
Perception
You also need to grow up and stop blaming your parents for every single thing.
A problem though is many People judge too soon Nice-Guy by a Man's mannerisms. Raised to give respect to your elders, to be considerate of Other's. Hold the door open (Women and Men) so they dont get smacked in the face. To be respectable but in same give respect, get respect.
I only got my ass beat when i rebeled which wasnt often but knowing what your parents would do if you rebeled ya quickly lose desire to do most things.
What i would give to have 10 mins only to talk to this man! wish i had someone as wise as him in my life to help me sort shit through.
My dad didn’t really have a father figure in his life so wasn’t your typical father (he would work a lot and was a distant until I got old enough to share interests with him), my parents fought a lot (screaming matches) only when they thought I wasn’t around to hear and I remember my dad shouting at me a lot. Consequently I’m incredibly agreeable and compassionate at a great detriment to myself. However I’m a teenager now and me and my dad get along great and he’s not aggressive at all and In fact looking back he didn’t really shout at me lots and I’m not sure why thats all I can remember? I’m not sure what caused me this selective memory and intimidation from my father and I suspect whatever it was could’ve caused my lack of willingness to be threatening
Judging by the thickness of the laptop I would estimate that this was around 2007?
I subscribed because he has the most non-intrusive and smallest "subscribe here" button in the corner. And that lack of throwing it in my face makes me willing to give my subscription.
I don’t care id say it in any room, dr Peterson is the balance in this world of the internet & noise, he can re centre anyone.
I think I experienced this at 12 years old. I was perhaps over confident but I could make others laugh and make friends generally. My grades were good and everything looked great until I simply got punched in the face over a disagreement and something changed. Confidence yes was low onwards but I'm sure it was like a switch going off in my head and all the quick wit and willingness to learn had gone. I'm in a good place 25 years on though. Just very strange just put down as self confidence. Could never get back that quickness in thought and speech.
Sad to hear bro. The only thing you need to fear is fear itself. Get over that hill and be the best version of yourself. Everyone has unlimited potential waiting for them. Master the art of the hermetic knowledge and you will succeed. Read the Kybalion and some Napoleon Hill. Good luck.
For me it was my mother who was the tyrant. Father was spineless and weak-willed towards her while she emotionally and psychologically abused us in the pursuit of narcissistic perfection. I picked up on his way of dealing (he had a shitty mother himself) and became the same guy. Married with 3 kids and still undoing the damage she did, and trying not to be what my father was. He just let things happen to him, pouted, and eventually just took it and went on with life.
Tyrannical or deliberately absent fathers force their sons to believe that real men don't cry.
@WarBanger --
Thank you.🙏
@@Kronic1Chillz --
Thanks for sharing, Kronic1Chillz. As the very lucky mom of two sons (now 43 and 47), in my humble opinion letting go of a few tears with someone you fully trust does alleviate the pressure cooker of emotions we are bound to collect. Yet, if not crying at all makes you feel less vulnerable, that's up to you. As long as we don't become bitter victims of our own unreleased, or repressed, pain, everyone does what suits their personality and soothes their psyche.
true only women cry because there weak
True but being the weak Father crying over everything and not making your son(s) understand that you only cry when the catastrophe causing the outpouring is out of your control or it is in front of those who can be relied upon to only want what's best for you is destructive. Crying without restraint or understanding the audience will only be seen as a weakness to exploit by those with sociopathy.
Emotional control is a positive thing in the masculine sphere emotional denial is not. The best Fathers provides the conduit and space for his son to release his feelings so that the rest of the world should only know his strength.
Yes, what is very harmful if you're highly sensitive, they see it as a form of weakness, it took many years for me too realize that' it's not a weakness it's a superpower.
i learned late in my fathers life that the reason he was aggressive was because of a brain injury as a child. i had him medically evaluated yearly, and that's when it came up. i didn't want him driving if he could not, so i presented medical evidence. turns out he opted out on his own, and gave me his truck, which i expected to sell. i insured and drove him around in his truck until he died. then i sold it. i didn't want a monument.
Ok but what about the "nice guys" that never knew their father, grew up in very abusive foster homes and all the abuse came from the female (mothers) of each house, and ultimately grew up in and out of psych wards between each foster home that they bounced from every 3-5 months for 18 years, like myself
This sounds like a lot and i would consider with such a history therapy/counseling by a professional.
Zone of proximal development…yes, the challenging key to it all
i thought about this when i was 11. good to see jordan peterson has discovered this truth too
What does it cost to attend a college with lavender steel doors and cement block walls?
Not so much a tyrannical father, but I was _not_ socialized by the time I was 4 years old, and it's obvious to me now how that affected me in the long term. Other than meeting other kids in the extended family on special occasions, the real first time I had the opportunity to mingle with other children my age was when I started gradeschool.
Thank god I rank very low in agreeableness.
Assert when you know what's best, reason when you need to learn. That's it.
Jordan Peterson is watching something completely different to what we are
Thank God for Dr. Peterson.