This Is Why This Engine Is KNOCKING So Bad. "Knock It Off" (MAJOR DAMAGE).
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- Опубліковано 8 жов 2022
- In this video we are removing the oil pan off of "Knock It Off" and finding out why it sounded so bad when cranking. You wont want to miss this one.@AdeptApe on Venmo or AdeptApe@yahoo.com on PayPal for donations, thank you so much for supporting the channel!
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I bet you'll find an empty ether can in the cab somewhere.
A few months ago I replaced an ISX with a broken crank. Engine had like 40k miles on it. Shockingly the engine actually ran fine. The only reason we found the issue was because it was having clutch release problems and that's when we found the flywheel could move front and back like a whole inch.
My crank went 9m ago in my Cummins isx 425. 2013 KWT660. It was under warranty. Got a whole nother engine. Guess what happened 3 week's ago. The crank is going in this engine. Now it's getting a complete out of frame rebuild! These newer Cummins engines suck!
@@MrMan-ol4ic that's terrible, but Thank God it was covered under warranty!!
Ive replaced engines in trucks with less than 500 miles on them. One was a brand new volvo d13 that the bull gear dropped out on. That started a very fun campaign. The most recent was a dd13 in a brand new freightliner with a car hauler build, sent the rod out the side so hard that it blew the rods out of the compressor. Trying to pull that out in a car hauler frame involved a lot of swear words.
@@MrMan-ol4ic weird because ive never heard of such severe failure on the new cummins
@the Chevy guy Thicker oil reduces efficiency and makes cold starts even worse for your engine. You need the oil to be thin when the engine is cold in order for it to flow. You are not a petroleum engineer. Stop spreading misinformation.
Awesome video., Back in 2010 I overhauled my 3406EK5 engine due to taking on water in the oil. While tearing it down the shop where I had it called & said my deck was out of spec & the engine would have to taken out to build back up. As long as he had ity out he said he would have my crankshaft ex-ray ed to make sure for no cracks. Well a day or so later he called & said my crankshaft had some small cracks & needed to be replaced. No a Good deal but if my deck hadn't had to been built bad up, I would have overhauled a engine with a faulty crankshaft & most certainly been in the very same shoes as the truck.the new crank cost me $4800.00 which I hated but I couldn't have wasted the other $30,000 for the overhaul so I guess in long run I was very lucky.Thanks for the video.
They say best time to find a fault is when you're already in the shop!
It would be cool to see the crank pulled out of the motor, and see just how it broke.
That's definitely a good one. I had a truck come into my shop (a Mack CXU with an MP8, I am a Mack dealer tech) for an oil leak. The tech working on it discovered a hole in the oil pan. The hole turned out to have been made by a main bolt that came loose and was vibrating against the bottom of the pan. I believe we replaced all the main bolts and bearings. The main cap and bearing that the bolt came loose from were in good shape. Good thing too because the main cap could only have been replaced by replacing the engine.
Wow 😮
Wow, this takes me back to the late 1960s. I was driving an original Austin Mini - 848 cc of mighty British power. It was a car that you could drive at its limits all the time without attracting much attention but it was a lot of fun. Halfway through a 3 mile trip I was hitting high revs and a loud metallic knocking noise started. Drove the rest of the way home and began a tear down. Problem was a crack halfway across a crank throw. Noise was the crack opening and closing with each revolution of the crank. Lucky it didn’t break since the gearbox was right below in the sump! Put in new crank and it was on its way again, at high revs.
It was a oil burner?
Yikes. I did a similar thing to my 2002 land Rover discovery. Driving from Colorado to Arizona at high speed. I pushed it beyond it's limits and slipped a cylinder sleeve out of place. Coolant mixed with fuel and it smelled awful. Coolant reservoir went dry in minutes. No bueno. Had to buy a used block from a junk yard in Los Angeles and use the old heads. It ran like a charm after that. I wish I didn't drive it like a sports car but that AWD feel so good at speed.
Seen a few cranks fail in the main journal (3406E’s) that drove in slight miss was the only complaint and the rods and mains had just been done on everyone of them.
I think that’s what happened to my truck
Josh, you should try and get your bosses to send you to AFA1 and AFA2. Personally I found the courses gives you so much understanding that then took my diagnostic ability through the roof when using the 7 steps of problem diagnostics.
It’s very rare for a CAT crank to break. in 15years as an Aussie CAT dealer plant mechanic I’ve seen 3 failed cranks and all from incorrect maintenance or repair processes.
It would be interesting to see photos of the crankshaft cracks to see why it broke. The origin of the crack is the most important point.
The FLS at 127 is off the planet! Did it also have 5232 Injector trim codes?
Cheap ways to get power always fail in the end. Would have been better off converting it to a marine setup or making it an 18 or 16 internals.
I drove trucks from the age of 19 until I was 63. I've seen it all (almost). Once a leased truck we had started knocking. I took to the lease garage to let them hear it, "they" said it was minor and not to worry. At that point it sounded like a little guy with a hammer was inside the block. I took it back 3 more times and received the same answer. When the engine finally seized we learned 1 injector had gone "full rich" and washed that cylinder clear of oil. Now this went on for months and I got to ask the mechanic if it was a tough fix as he hammered the sleeve out. My point is almost anything can and will happen eventually. Oh well it was leased and we got another to drive another as they fixed it.
Hats off to the guys that called the main bolt failure. Main cap bolt failure was the cause of the broken crank have noticed that cats Are notorious for bolt fracturing at the head, Deere also seems to be plagued with the same issue on head and rod bolts. Just for shits and giggles I've noticed that there is no radius Between the head and shaft on all the bolts that I had seen fail in this manner Might be a good place to start watching. We always watch when working with steel be it a crank radius or an axle I think all these new engineers have not been tought what we've learned over the years.
That really was an entire video of destruction of the week! 👍
Great video 👍🏽
Amazing how close the answers were. Really appreciate your expertise !!!
This is the third engine I've seen with a broken crank at #6 in the past 6 years.
Thanks for watching and congratulations to the winners. Thanks to Western States for the cups. Amazon Affiliate Links to help the channel:
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I was hoping I was close to right I'm no mechanic by any means but I knew what sound was right off by first hand experience and I'm an ok parts changer
wheres the link for those gloves?
@@operationscomputer1478 I need to get the link up for those, thanks for asking.
Excellent video, thank you for sharing. Very very educational!
I have a friend stuck out in the I think New Mexico desert with a broken motor on his skoolie. He showed a picture of one of his pistons that looks like a hockey puck. I don't think this is good news. Keep the good stuff coming buddy.
Thanks for sharing that’s crazy I’ve seen a crank break before kinda like that but it didn’t take out any bolts just had a knock it was in a dozer
Would be awesome to see a teardown and rebuild video but I'll bet he opts for a reman. Either way, a video on it coming out and going back in would be cool.
Had a good destruction of the week the other day...magnet came out of the fill plug in a D8 final. Did 40k worth of damage lol
40k for a magnet? Oh man.
Yup. The only salvageable parts is the spindle, hub, inner carrier and ring gear. When the magnet fell out it blew a chunk off of the sun gear and split the outer carrier then proceeded to eat up everything else.
Totally 😢
how does an actual magnet, fall out of a steel plug?!?!
The Adept Ape seal of awesomeness is hilarious, you definitely need to use that again!
Maybe I should.
Other than the obvious damage the internals looked really clean. As black as the oil gets it's still doing its job.
Just when I thought your content on your channel was awsome...you go and add a contest with real educational answers...stepped up your game..
Have to thank Western States Cat for that, they are very generous with the giveaways.
Just wanted to shed some light on the failure mode of those bolts; it looks to me like a brittle failure in a combination of tension and bending. The diagonal area of the fracture surface is where the internal stresses changed from tensile to compressive from the bending force.
This seems about right from a massive impact to the main cap, and once one bolt has failed the remaining one will experience a massive bending moment causing it to fail too
I’ve been in a car when the crank snapped across the first web from the flywheel. Was one hell of a bang ! water and oil all over the road !
Boat anchor, when I take the oil pan off, while it is still under the engine. I take the four bolts out of the rear of the oil pump. That way it drops most of the oil in the pump and the pressure tube. I then remove psi tube and dump remaining oil out. Remove remaining parts and drop in oil pan. Most crankshaft breakage I see is on front or rear in the rod fillet radius. Grinder burn or inclusion in the metal. Very odd that the main cap bolts broke. I can see part of the shear lip on the bolt heads. I have seen head bolts do this as corrosion gets under it and causes a stress riser. ET0911, the warranty death tool.
I, like the best three guessers, believe the number six main cap bolts broke first. The resulting loss of crankshaft support overloaded main bearing number seven, causing it to fail, and also overloaded the crankshaft itself, fracturing it.
Had the rod cap bolts fall out in my Nissan. Crazy part is that they where not broken. Slightly bent from the rotation. The blue factory thread locker was still clearly visible as well as all the thread's being intact. They literally fall out and where laying on the windage tray.
Thought for sure the broken crank would have sent something out to daylight. Guess they shut it down pretty quick.
I have a good picture of a 1LW with the rod hanging out of the cylinder block, with the crankshaft still attached.
Lots of cats have had broken cranks and ran fine
I thought the oil samples were done in a different way for cat dealers, with a long clear plastic hose with a suction device through the oil dipstick. Good video.
Can’t find your link to the gloves. Hello Josh. Great video. It was really a pleasure to meet you.
awesome video.. i am thinking when you start looking really close that block is going to need a lot of work if it is not junked.
i thinking the main caps moved around and have torn in to the block witch is going to allow new ones to rock around.
Green locktite
We had a guy come in with a 3406E with a knock. We could float the sampler but the clutch wasn’t moving. We told him his crank was broken but refused to believe us. So I showed him . He was dumbfounded.
I LIKE YOUR DOWN TO BUSINESS POINT OF VIEW,,,SIMPLE EXPLANATION,,,,,,ALS I JUST ORDERED DEX-FIT GLOVES,,,
Had a Mack crank snap from a dead missing cylinder created torsional vibration snapped same way.
Front damper issues also cause cracked cranks .
I think that’s what happened to my truck
Use to see broken cranks in the 3408 all the time back in the eighties .
I watched you start this truck yesterday, then finding a coolant leak in a highway department truck. 😳 I had ideas, but not this bad.
I believe that the bottom line of why the crank broke is the dampener hardening internally at the front of the crankshaft.
Another great find 💪🇺🇸
Wild! I only get to play with isb 6.7s and trashforce7’s.. pretty cool to see something much larger fubar itself.
Wow!!! I've heard of crank shafts snapping in half but never seen on still in the block. What surprised me was the head of the bolt for the main cap broke off like that. Am wondering if those two bolts where compromised on installation on last rebuild.....
I imagine a several hundred horse power 1500rpm hammer could wreck stuff pretty quick, hell of a lot of inertia spinning around and hitting metal on metal.
That's a very interesting way of thinking about it.
@@AdeptApe A bit like an impact wrench but everything massive.
@@mrln247 that’s a powerful hammer
@@mrln247 😂
I love seeing the carnage. It's my favorite part of a major engine destruction
How do you crack a crank
Groovy new open!
That is a former Midwest Specialized Transport truck. Al Koening had an excellent maintenance program for the fleet.
My guess is that the dampner or crankshaft balancer has never be changed. Sure the bolts were broken but what caused them to break. Add in a past due balancer change and you add in a lot of vibration this you get fatigue thru out the engine and drive train.
Hi. What makes you conclude the crank broke first then causing the main bolts to break instead of the bolts coming loose and causing the crank to break then causing the heads to snap off?
another broken crank shalf i had was in the old leyand hipo which was a water truck after doing some fact finding that was caused by the sims pump that they used and the engine bolted the owner at the time sold it and it looks like the crankshaft ended up with a slight bend and after a long time flexing it finaly broke
The “Adept Ape seal of awesomeness“!!!!!
👍🏆score
I like to see the clutch and input to the transmission looks like
Back in the early SDP CAT they had a adapter housings that had been machining that was off center line with crank shaft and taking out transmission left and right also the Torsional dampening cause from that created created crankshaft's bosting between those 2 spots between 6 and 7 mains I had one first hand on king of the hill 600hp do it at 67,000 miles in that time frame I had 5 transmission failure to my housing was off .235 thousands off as looking the truck look to be an old MIDWEST SPECIALIZE From Rochester MN Chris loved his trucks there but as for my self these engine had a lot short comings back 2008 2009 2010 were the worst years for PACCAR KW AND PETERBILT.
Used to be front crank dampener was a major cause of crank breakage. Is that still a issue?
Love to see the rebuild of this motor.
It's still just sitting there waiting on approval for someone.
No rebuild, replacement. Also if it is illegal your are require by law to make it legal, fine is $37,500.00.
Chopra Motors does some amazing CAT rebuilds
@@johngoldsmith6629what are you talking about
That's incredible. How many miles were on this engine? 850k... thanks!
Listen @10:15
I was in a buddies motor coach (2006 Country Coach) when the Cat in that snapped the crank. Whole 20 ton rig jumped a foot and it sounded like a b0mb went off. Cat warranted the crank but the labor was 10K.
That's a very cool story, must have been..... Exciting.
Incredible!
Those boltheads were hammered over and over until they fattigued and started to crack from one side. crack progressing untill it snaps.
The main bolts have failed due to cyclic bending fatigue at the head radius which is one of the highest stressed areas of a bolt, final fracture is tensile not shear. Multipel ratchet marks at the fracture inetiation site indicate high cyclic stress rather then a bolt flaw or load. would be interesting to see the CS fracture faces but I suspect also a fatigue element is involved, I would suspect the dampener if there are no vissible material or manufacturing defects in the CS. Bolts are placed in tension (pre load) to generate sufeciant clamping force (friction) so as to reduce the shear stress on them. Typicaly the shear stength of steel is less then its tensile strength so a bolts strength is used to protect it from its weakness.👍
Cyclic beating fatigue 😅😅😅
Love your content
It looks like fatigue was also involved in the bolts snapping off. Can see areas that have a satin appearance indicating they didn't break right away. Id bet it just sort of sounded funny at first until they gave way completely from the bending forces they were subjected to, at which point the sections of the crank moved out of alignment and then it started to come a knockin'.
Overtorqued bolts maybe? I don't think they can snap this bad if they're torqued properly
Crank broke. Started beating on the mains. Broke the main bolts.
I got a 6nz factory reman in a glider about to hit 100k miles
When would you recommend running the overhead
When it makes noise, when you notice fuel mileage decrease or a power decrease, but in all reality it's really a personal choice, a Cummins ISX could go 500K before a overhead where a N14 I would recommend 200K miles max on them, again it's all personally what you feel comfortable with
I would say it's a good idea to check it at 100,000 miles. You'll probably get the most wear in the first 100,000 miles so it would be good to check it. Hopefully it won't need much adjustment.
@@AdeptApe thanks for the reply
For got to tell you, we had in our shop a new content long block. Been running two years, took the cylinder head off and all water ferrules was missing.
They were just gone? I guess I shouldn't triple check them when I install a head then.
@@AdeptApe Yes Sir, Cat forgot to install them. Amazing it did not leak coolant. The spacer plate gasket had the aviation sealer on it.
Interesting gloves. You made a good commercial for them 👍
I’m going to guess it was shock loading that caused the crank to break. Driver probably likes to release the clutch too fast when starting off especially on hills.
It takes an amazing amount of force to do that kind of damage.
I’m also going to say that the block should be replaced. There might be micro stress cracks near or around that area.
Better to be safe and replace everything than to chancing it and keeping the block.
Stress to the customer to NOT screw with any settings because of the new warranty.
So many guy out there think that they need more horsepower.
A good driver can operate a truck with less horsepower than a guy operating it with high horsepower.
I think you got it right Sir. Shock loading.
Broke the crank first and then the mains bolts broke. Diaminio effect.
Like when people smoke their tires. They are shock loading the rear diff or other parts. Something has got to give. Seen to many smoked rear differentials.
I was thinking operator abuse might have broken the crank, but with 850K on the clock, it’s probably just a failed crank. Time for a complete overhaul.
Damn Cat bolts are generally pretty big bolts for the mains to snap one of them definitely destruction of the week on that
I assume that crank is forged steel, but the grain in the crack looks a bit odd like it is cast
@Adept Ape not sure what your doing for repair, but I would be skeptical of re using injectors the dampener or clutch and flywheel. Most of the time when I've seen broken cranks it's been because of a poorly balanced rotating assembly or cylender contribution is way out to lunch
i had a simular problem with a hino motor and when you look at the bolt and the head you will find that there was a very tiny defect in the bolt and the flexing waves will coinside with the power stroke of the engine so after a long time the flexing continues then after that time the bolt snap off
i was the service manager for hino at the time and hino replaced thecrankskalf and repaird the moter but the customer had to pay for the gasket set
It seems that you gonna be doing little bit of welding 😂
Call out the Pakistan crew. They can weld anything anywhere. I guarantee it😅😅😅
Wow..,. information life is good 👍
PRODIGY Adept Ape
Thank you very much for sharing what you know 👍 Take care and have a great Evening with all your family around you
PRODIGY Adept Ape
From Nick Ayivor from London England UK 🇬🇧
Thanks Nick!
Hey alright! Thank you for the mention @AdeptApe . Love the content!
Thank you for watching and commenting.
JB weld its good as new ... lmao 🤣
Thanks!
Thank you so much Ken.
LOL at (3:40). Wow. Very rare experience.
The strength of bolts or studs are in tension, not shear. If the crank cracked it would introduce shear forces on the main bolts and it looks like they were partially sheared before the heads snapped off. Could be wrong of course as just looking at video.
Could have two failures, I agree about the bolt head failure.
That block is going to need a lot of repair, if it can be repaired, might even need line bored, in all reality I don't I would use it at all.
Dis is amazing
Well that's an Inframe. DIdn't see, but did the block take any whacks?
Called it. BTW, love the videos
How much well it costs for the rebuild?
I'm wondering if someone did rods and mains and then over torqued the main bolts.
You would stretch the bolt and the weakest point is where the threads meet the shank. Or it would have locked up the engine.
I had a Toyota HDJ81 Landcruiser, 4.2 Turbo diesel. I rebuilt the motor, and in hindsight I should have crack tested the crank because in about 5 thousand k's the bastard thing broke right at the flywheel end. In NZ nothing is cheap and rebuilding this motor cost a fortune, i wasn't going through that again so I repowered it with a v8. Live and learn eh.
the bolt that lost the head looked like it had vertical cracks?
Whether this is true or not is up for debate. I’ve heard if a crank breaks in the rear, it was a vibration from the front. And if they break up front, it’s a vibration from behind coming up the driveline. Do you think it was the damper?
I emailed you Josh, I included my info. That was a cool contest lol
Darn, I hate it when the sponsored ad is interrupted by a UA-cam inserted ad.
While we took a minute to hear about the sponsor, I couldn't help but hope that the poor fella who owns that truck also has a sponsor or two. 🤣
Had the same exact thing happen on a late model Cummins a couple years ago. Dealer replaced the engine.
I don't have any experience with diesel engines, but I wonder if the injector for the failed cylinder had some kind of malfunction due to impure fuel resulting in a hydraulic break... ): Looks expensive to fix...
Hi I have questions I bay front cat dealer in pa in the past year cat 2ws 550 install in my 2000 w900. So the problem I have is in the summer in altitude of 7or 8000 feet of altitude temperatures going up to 217 218 . Bo went are in pa the altitude is no to much the are work ok I replease the thermostat for 5513 this one open a 180
Instead 190 the engine have before, and replease atmospheric sensor the radiator for one custom make 5 channels. This engines work like this ? Thanks in advance
What is the FLS and FTS?
Good to know that Cat engines log the tool IDs, so don't mess with an engine under warranty. Fortunately I don't mess with any engines under warranty.
Full load setting and full torque setting. It determines the max fuel delivery at 1800 and 1200 rpm respectively.
Thank you Super Secret.
Full load is where rated HP at rated RPM's is produced. Another term Cat uses for FLS is intercept. Basically in the old mechanical days the angle of the curve (droop) from high idle to Full Load, at the point your touching the torque spring (Set Point), the fuel setting at Full Load. FTS is the fuel setting at peak torque or another term Cat uses is slope. The angle of the HP curve from Full Load to Peak torque. When you do a PAR run and it requires a FLS/FTS adjustment. You have to have both of those readings of fuel GPH and RPM's +/- 10 RPM's. Between Full Load and Peak Torque you have another term called Hump HP. So as RPM's drop below Full Load the HP can increase. So max HP (depends on Full Load RPM) or (what type of torque spring you have) could be a 100 RPM's or so under full load RPM. Again using the mechanical engine system, your starting to deflect the torque spring giving the engine more fuel on the piston to accommodate for the added load. Back in the day all this was done with moving parts. In today's time it is done with a program (flash file). Torque rise is what you want to see, if you have a low HP engine. When you hit a hill does you engine have the torque needed to pull the load. So Torque rise is Peak Torque minus Rated Torque, divided by Rated Torque times 100. The big deal in the 70's was take a 1693 Cat, 425 HP and put the 380 HP HT torque spring in the governor. The 380 Torque spring was 0.088 more fuel versus 0.032 on a 425 HP engine when the torque spring was fully deflected.
When you posting the tear down?
When is part two coming out
Are factory cranks magafluxed at the factory?
Isn’t the tq spec like 90ftlb and two flats?
Wow!!
Had to be a dramatic drop in oil pressure for a little bit of time before this got so bad. No warning of low oil pressure? Maybe it was sudden failure after all.
To my complete embarrassment, I did this to a brand new Freightliner Cummins Formula 290 in 1977. I let it over rev going down a grade on US 60 in Missouri.
Stupid to the max, a terrible lesson to learn.
So how much will it cost to repair this engine?
People guessed the broken crank location since they have seen it before, and its a known failure mode........... Certain engines have a "broken crank" issue. A good example was the late 1970's V8 Mack engine........375hp rating, they were well known crank snappers. By the mid 1980's, the 400-V8 Mack was super reliable, do a million miles no problem.
Damper was shot i bet, lots of other folks called it too. A big snoot full of ether too many mornings in a row might have busted it, too. Any ideas on it's past booger sugar intake?
My guess is those 2 bolts failed first and the rest followed. Crazy sht man. Looks like something that would happen to me.