Is this The Joker?
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- Опубліковано 25 лис 2024
- The Joker, Batman's most iconic villain. A staple in every piece of Batman media... well, almost every piece.
This video looks at Fox's TV show "Gotham", and the story of how they made an almost-Joker. Jerome and Jeremiah Valeska twin brothers and the stand in for the famous Clown Prince of Crime. How do they stack up to the other live action Jokers? Are they even The Joker? Let's find out together, shall we?
#fateviews #gotham #joker #thejoker #batman #dc #netflix #jeromevaleska #jeremiahvaleska #dceu #fox #tv #videoessay #analysis #epic #funny
My favorite thing that the official Gotham Twitter account said about this reveal was "there's always two Jokers in every deck."
chills
Wym
@@J22955 It's a card joke
@K33L4N-B3Y ik that
@@J22955 seems like you're the dumbest here since you didn't get it
it's still funny to me how Mark Hammil and Cameron Monaghan are foils to each other. The first played a Jedi and went onto be the Joker. Then second played not one but two Jokers in one show before becoming a Jedi.
Funny enough, Mark Hamill also played multiple Jokers
Thats so fun!
Monaghan needs to be given the movie role
@@petecoogan Agreed! I think Cameron is one of the best up and coming actors of our generation! I'm excited to see him in more stuff, and would love to see him acting as an animated Joker sometime also, let him loose!
@@petecooganHe is so underrated. I hope he can reprise the role under James Gunns universe Batman
I like to think that Jerome was THE Joker and, before he died, he decided to have one last laugh and turned his brother into, more or less, him. I don’t think Jeremiah is the Joker, just the final joke or last laugh of the actual one.
Am not sure how you garner so much like for such and absolute ass of an anology....just saying
So well said sir, the perfect example of “one bad day”
THREE???? I didn't watch the show yet, what do you mean THREE???
There are three different interpretations of the joker in this show, at least by this review, Jerome, jeremiah, and jeremiah after the acid.
But not THREE brothers. Is that something in the show?
@3bodYking99 Nope. I am sure he thought Jeremiah, who fell into the acid, was his third brother.
@@wolfranga8477 oh, ok. I was really confused.
Also, is this show like the origin of batman, and how the city became the hell hole it's known for in the comics?
My favorite character in the show was 100% Alfred. It's a young and new kind of Alfred. We can see through the whole show how he really cares about Bruce and tries to be a father figure, but also just a butler at the same time. The watch scene was the best btw.
I really loved Alfred from the show! As a little side note, I adored that he had an actual British accent rather than the over the top accent that Alfred usually has. (Not that I have any issues with the posh accent Alfred, but as an English person it really solidifies the character in a little bit of reality, being Bruce's anchor.)
But my personal favourite was the show's Penguin. I ended up being much less concerned about Gordon and more concerned about Penguin being his angry little self and Alfred trying to raise his surrogate son properly in all of Gotham's chaos.
@@NyxFoxie-tm4lh Penguin is FANTASTIC and he’s just so much dang fun to watch, he’s such a cunning but pissy coward and I love him to pieces, one of my favorite characters of all time fr
@@joannelee5574 He's one of the first villains that comes to mind when I think of Batman now! I completely agree, he's ridiculously entertaining and his strange nemesis-friendship he has with Riddler is one of the most interestingly done dynamics I've seen in a while. He's fantastically written.
Jeremy irons was better
@@joannelee5574Oswald literally stole the show and I love him to bits
>acts like the joker
>talks like the joker
>sounds like the joker
>looks like the joker
>does things that the joker would do in the comics
>does things that joker *has* done in the comics
>not the joker tho, different character
thanks warner bros
If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, and acts like a duck, its probably a duck.
(Edit: I have been informed it may be a goose, Be cautious)
"I Can't Believe It's Not joker."
Why couldn’t he be the joker again?
lots and lots and lots of legal bullshit
@@BloodBathhhhlegal reasons
Regardless of WB's annoying little caveats for the show, Jeremiah and Jerome were absolutely the Joker. And Cameron did a fantastic job with the role, definitely one of the better modern performances (sorry Leto fans, assuming there are any). The fact that both brothers are both distinctly different characters, and yet both showed implicit Joker characteristics just shows how layered the character is and that you can take it in many different directions and still be true to character - and it also shows how talented Monaghan was to be able to make both performances ring individualistic and true, and I think it helped that he was clearly a fan of the source material and wasn't afraid to learn from previous performances.
I think the actor/character that actually carried was the penguin. Oswald was relevant through the whole story.
Generally was a good show imo. Casting was nearly perfect for everyone. The last one or two seasons weren't my style. The showrunners were invested and you can feel it.
the fights were super bad and cgi was terrible but fr Oswald carried so hard the drama was pretty good Barbara kinna sucked tbh
@@Phil_Mahari couldn’t agree more
facts
I pretty much tuned in to the show for The Penguin. I never gave two shoots about that villain until Oswald on Gotham. For me, it was the Oswald show. And when he dealt with his father's murderers, it was one of the most cathartic events in TV comic history.
@@dane3038 Yea Oswald carried the show on his back no question about it I’m kinda sad they made him fat though
Gotham is an underrated gem and I really hope more people come back to realize that. There were a couple seasons there that were some of the best seasons on TV at the time.
My parents refused to watch it because of the *GODDAMN BALLOON MAN* episode. No matter how much I tried to convince them it would get better... I am cursed by the balloon man.
@@NyxFoxie-tm4lhwhat happened in the balloon man episode
@@NyxFoxie-tm4lh I actually pretty like the balloon man episode. It's a comic inspired TV show.
I love how the two brothers are the both sides of the joker. Jerome I’d the embodiment of life is chaos and is more of the physical (fightwise) than his brother while jerimah is more of the cold calculating intelligence and is the mental/emotional ( trying to break Bruce or mentally torturing selina/Catwoman by paralysing her giving her a bit of PTSD)
Chaos
Jerome is Chaotic Evil and Jeremiah is Lawful Evil.
Jerimiah is lame, the weaker performance of a great actor thought up mid production
@@Luxembourgish I think a big part of the was the show being cancelled and given a considerably smaller time to write the last season
@@Luxembourgish I mean in 5 Jeremiah started losing his mind and started joking and laughing
I honestly like the idea that the Joker was two people, it's a shame that the execution fell short of what it could have been. Very good characters individually though, I like the personification of two different kinds of insane.
Camran is one of if not THE most underrated actors I've ever seen.
My guy played the Joker TWICE, (And did it AMAZINGLY in my opinion), then went and played Cal Kestis!!!
LIKE DANG BRO THAT IS SKILL!!!
I truly hope we see more of him in the future.
He was great in Shameless and the Jedi video games too, good actor
and mark hamill plays a star wars character and the joker too
YESSS HOMIE IS CAL
@@PlaceHolder007YT >a star wars character 🙃
Fr
This made me want to rewatch the whole show. I'm a huge Batman fan and i liked how they portrayed Penguin and the Riddler aswell. All the actors did a good job! (in my opinion)
The Riddler and Penguin are the best versions in Gotham, in my opinion. They're incredibly developed and I don't think they ever go out of character in their actions.
Obviously Ledger was incredible but what Cameron did in his very first episode was to actually play the Joker, and he managed to do it with red hair, no make up and old second hand used clothes. I don't think anyone is going to be able to beat him. He did for live action what Hamill has done for animation.
♡
Exactly
Facts
He didn't copy hamill either, he did all the mannerisms of COMIC Joker, even referencing some comic covers.
@@leafyishereisdumbnameakath4259 No he very much did his own thing. What I meant was that if Hamill is the definitive voice performance. Cameron is the definitive live action performance when it comes to bringing the character from the comics to life.
Though the references for covers are the writers doing. I'm not actually sure how they got away with it, and WB not forcing Fox to cancel the show by being in breach of contract. Since WB expressly told Fox the Joker was off limits because they didn't want to dilute the brand. And they still managed to find wiggle room and in doing so did what the movie division of WB has never been able to do.
It's not gonna happen, but I would love it if Gotham got an Elseworlds stand alone movie in 5-7 years when David is old enough to play Batman. Sure I'd love to see Cameron be the Joker for real in the DCU but that sort of thing never happens either.
I remember watching one of Cameron’s interviews about what inspired his version of joker and him saying how he was inspired by each one and used previous jokers to make his own was so great. He nailed the characters he played so well
Cameron Monaghan absolutely killed it (haha) on Gotham. It was part of what made Gotham so much fun to watch. The stories were insane, the character work was soap opera, the whole thing was tongue in cheek. However everyone on screen was clearly committed to the bit and it allowed for masterful suspension of disbelief.
He’s a fantastic actor
It’s so weird seeing Cal Kestis as a psychopathic nutcase
@@anth636I know right😅
Also no woke shit
@@anth636 Wait what? Did you not play Survivor?
This kid got the real Joker. He was far and away the best and truest live-action Joker!
That very much could be true🤔
No he was gay af
Joker was never gay
@@xsfrosty7226🤨….
@@xsfrosty7226 Okay? Who cares? Deadass?
WB: you're not allowed to have Joker
Gotham: okay but this is Jerome, not Joker
WB: okay..
WB: alright, you're allowed to have Joker now
Gotham: so Jerome can be Joker?
WB: no because you said earlier he's not Joker.. you didn't lie, did you?
Gotham: did i say Jerome? i meant to say Jeremiah..
WB: alright, Jeremiah can be Joker
and that ladies and gentlemen, is literally how it happened
Thank you brother
I don't care what Warner says, Valeska is the Joker
Yeah
Agreed
I loved Cameron's acting in Shameless and the latest Jedi games, and he really showed his acting skills with this role. He's my personal favorite Joker cause he simply killed it. Shame that he'll probably never return. And be aware, Mark Hamill himself expressed that he loved it.
For real
It was also really sweet to see them interacting in the ads leading up the Jedi sequel game. It’s weirdly poetic how they walk on such similar paths
Im not a big DC fan and was never able to get very attached to any of the movies and shows but Gotham was just amazing to watch and Jerome is still my current ideal for a joker. The actor is just amazing
It's not just that they don't respect TV as a medium, it's that they own the characters and are very selective in who they trust to write with batman and joker, as shown by the fact they completely chopped up David Ayers version of him in the suicide squad movie because they needed it to be more child friendly. Even Todd Phillips said when he pitched his joker movie the execs didn’t want to do it and were like "you realise that we make millions by putting this character on clothing and selling it to kids right? " they only allowed him a shoestring budget and made him come up with the whole "DC black label " idea just to green light it
Selective to a ridiculous degree.
The one time they had a crossover game with Mortal Kombat, they also completely neutered any of the brutality despite their own characters doing some pretty gruesome shit in their own franchises.
@@Rad-Dude63andathirdSee you said that, but clearly you haven't seen MK11 Joker. It wasn't exclusive to Joker, every cast member including all the Mortal Kombat characters weren't allowed to be too violent in that game.
@@fairlywren3664that’s because of WB.
@@strictnine5684 Sure was, the point is that the MK characters got the same treatment as the DC characters despite violence being the franchise's MO
I think Cameron had so much potential with this version of the Joker. I actually really liked his take and he managed to do it without any makeup or purple suit or green hair. I like it when they take what we’re used to seeing and flip it on its head to give us something new:
Jerome had the potential to be the best Joker we ever got on screen, and I will die on that hill. He behaved like Joker, he looked like Joker minus the bleach and makeup. He WAS an excellent Joker. Unfortunately his potential was ruined because of WB.
I think, that he didn't even need the bleached skin and the green hair to be Joker. He just looked like him without all of that. I also think he was the best live action Joker ever.
he alone got me tuning in on the show when it was the start of s2
You will find me on that hill
Honestly a lot of the best characters are usually from tv shows since they have more development than movie characters.
They didn’t have the rights to the joker so they had to water him down
6:48 aged like fine wine
Literally what I was thinking 😭😭😭
One aspect that they merely hinted at was that Jerome's consciousness was part of Jeremiah, which would explain the shift in tone and character between seasons 4 and 5. I always thought it was cool that hearing him argue with himself meant that he was LITERALLY arguing against the ''chaotic'' side of the Joker. Also could explain why J later didn't feel like Jeremiah because he and Jerome possibly became fully ''blended'' after the Ace Chemical incident.
6:47 joker folie à deux ending be like
I think the whole Arkham breakout segment is what really made Jerome cemented as the shows joker, seeing him stand side by side with real classic villains made him seem so much more legitimate
6:50 well that aged well
I think it is an excellent spin on the character which goes out of the usual comic story.
Jerome, a representation of the Arthur Fleck side of the story where emotional trauma was the key to being driven insane.
Jeremiah, more of the original comics where a dose of chemicals breaks him.
personally I like to believe jeremiah was already evil, makes him scarier
The difference is, that Arthur Fleck wasn't that evil in the Joker movie. He was more of a broken man. Jerome on the other hand was pure evil in the Gotham series. Yes, they both suffered from traumas, but Jerome was more jokeresque to me.
how is it a "spin" to recycle a bunch of different plots from different comics, and apply them to a named character who just acts identically to specific movie versions of the actual character?
@@FingerinUrDaughter That's like saying Dark Knight Joker is not a spin on the character because he still wears purple and looks like a clown.
Just because there are similarities does not mean there are no differences.
@@InitialPC that might be the case, is heath ledger was actually playing the joker based on...anything. but he wasnt, he was just playing his "head cannon" joker, which was not at all representative of the ACTUAL joker. which is why he was a shitty joker, almost as bad as jared leto.
6:48 “I think it’s a pretty offensive idea to imagine that the Joker… was just a copycat of this guy he saw on TV killings people and laughing.”
Well that aged well.
Cameron did an amazing job with these characters, and next to Ledger is my favorite to take the Joker into the 21st century! Actually, I'd have a hard time criticizing any of the casting for this show; they were all terrific!
jared leto
@@thebossboy1908don't tell me he was actually any good as the joker
@@daxie__3210 twas a joke. He sucked
I absolutely loved what they did with Jerome and Jeremiah(post toxin) both are completely psychotic but driven by different things completely ones way more chaotic while the others more calculating. One wants to kill Bruce but the other wants him to become his brother
I love Gotham as a massive Batman fan, this video was super well put together and definitely deserves more attention 👏
I honestly think that their restrictions are what was able to really push them to achieve this new version of the character, if only they could’ve been allowed to affirm it at the very end, but still
Cameron is super underrated and gave a great performance. I think he could sit on the same table as Ledger and Phoenix
probably my second favorite Joker.
I knew the Actor from Shameless and while he did great there I was suprised how deep he was able to go on this.
Really good performance.
I like how people talk trash about Gotham when its better than most live action dc shows lol
Yeah some people can be bitter gatekeepers who don't know how to have fun.
not a very high bar tbh
@@cement_eater I mean it beats Smallville and Superman and Lois any day of the week.
I can remember a few years ago when I tried to convince my parents to turn Superman and Lois off and watch Gotham instead.
@@NyxFoxie-tm4lh can't speak for smallville but s&l is definitely better than gotham
@@cement_eater I wasn't keen on it, personally. The reason I was begging them to watch Gotham was because they'd rewatched it twice already, and I just wanted them to watch a DC show I liked with me!
Bro the Gotham show was one of the best batman shows that cant use the word batman or the joker it was done soooooo well to the writing to the actors to the sets. I absolutely loved this show just wish we went deeper and darker with these characters. God I hope we get a joker batman movie again soon.😊
I love Cameron Monaghan's portaral as the joker, and jeremiah is great he really shows that "super sain aspect" but jerome is MY joker. Showing hes smart but still a psyco path, just the laughs and the smiles and his little mannerisms, made me make me love him so much.
Why dc doesnt want joker or batman mention in gotham?
Are they stupid?
Because there not that smart
From what I've heard, at the time, the Joker movie was being made or something like that, so Warner Bros didn't want ppl to get confused and think they were the same universe. I think it's the same reason with Batman, too, just The Batman was coming out at the time. It's pretty stupid bc it's obvious they aren't in the same universe.
@@MKtvisHIM such a dumb excuse we 100% wouldve been able to tell they were different time lines
More Gotham content! Thank you for acknowledging Cameron Monaghan’s legacy, he’s always been my personal favorite Joker.
that's insane lmao he was mid
@@strongersmarterandbetterbetter than Leto
@@irwinhiker5917 he's still the 2nd worst behind Leto
@@strongersmarterandbetter nah leto sucks more
@@irwinhiker5917 I know I was saying he's behind him
Nah, this the giggler
the jiggler if you will
18:32 Ngl Jeremiah’s overall outfit looks awesome. That glitter indigo blue hiding that deep pink is 🤌. Definitely my favorite alternate color scheme for the joker.
His 16:59 outfit always screamed animated series joker to me too! Could totally see Mark Hamill’s joker rocking around in that outfit
Dude that russian roulette one is so funny my parents are sleeping and i think ill have a beating tomorrow oof
Love the comments that are basically like "never seen the show, that sounds insane" IT IS YOU SHOULD WATCH IT!! Also, I'd love a full Oswald video, he's my favorite Gotham character :D
8:00 they really used the same actor that played a crazy guy for joker in the dark knight.
I know alot of people prefer Jerome however I preferred Jeremiah he felt more refreshing and actually didn't want to be like his twin but with one bad day does
Jerome was a FANTASTIC actor, legit fantastic.
Man, the performances in this show were fantastic. To this day Gotham's versions of Penguin and Ruddler are the versions I think of when I hear their names.
“Ruddle me this Batman”
@@epicsponge7934 Y'know what, I'm not even going to change it. You've exposed me and now I gotta roll with it
I agree, I watched Batman Forever recently and was like "wait???? Jim Carrey???"
So you're saying that whulst i was collecting riddler trophies i was supposed to be getting ruddler trophies damn it
@@Barneito_123 Skill issue I suppose
I think it could also be that the producers adapted the idea to the idea of the joker being never-ending. If one dies another rises to continue in their steps.
Man if Fox was smart they'd bring back this show i watched it from Season 1 all the way to the end this show is perhaps tge closest we'll get to a proper Batman live action show this show deserves a revival
There was apparently supposed to be a season 6 but it got cancelled (hence why season 5 feels a bit... shoved together.)
This video just sums up the end of Joker 2
I like when he laughs in the intergation room it's exactly the same when heath ledger laughs in the interrogation room in the dark Knight
The Jonkler is truly man's nemisis
Best live action Joker ever. Even without the bleached skin and green hair, he nailed it.
It’s in interesting subplot that Joker becomes a Jedi Knight later in the timeline 💀
Cameron wasn't the Joker, he was ALL of the Jokers.
look, gotham was. something. but the actors fuckin killed it. cameron monaghan had to act against himself, and while the writing wasnt great, the sheer energy carried it
also PLEASE make that full length eddie analysis, i need more gotham content
6:48 😬 joker 2 ending
When Jeremiah is explaining to Harvey about the Bombs with his followers behind him in front of the GCPD. There’s one scene where it shows him looking around with the wind blowing and it’s mostly just his face while he says something extremely chilling. That’s one of if not my favorite scene in Gotham. Not even the entire part just that once cut scene was so insanely well done
3 things bro
#1: Great video. First video of yours i've seen and i'm already gonna subscribe soon as i finish writing this.
#2: THIS IS CRIMINALLY UNDERRATED! Been out for 2 days and you still get hardly any attention... unfair.
& #3: This video is full of fun parts but i aint gonna lie... i laughed like the joker himself at 3:50 GREAT PART
When the narrator says he hates the idea of the joker becoming the joker just from seeing some clown guy do maniac stuff…little does he know that’s how Joker 2 was born
12:30
During this conversation Jeremia also says the Joker line:
Im ThE JoKeR BaBy!
6:48 woah thats literally what happened in folie a deux
Hello friends!
This video has experienced some minor copyright issues, and I'm not sure if it'll be taken down after it starts to get some views (as happens sometimes) but I got a schedule and I'm tryin' to stick to it!
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That was superb!!! You cover EVERYTHING!!!. Thank you so much for doing justice to the show. The Redband trailer, OH BOY!!! I love that
The Chuckle.
I like every version of Joker yes every single one because they aren’t all the same there’s always differences
i really like how they didnt referenced one joker, they referenced all the joker. that scene was heath ledger like but right after he is back to classic goofy joker. amazing character.
just one thing, bruce's plan was not to "dig up jerome's grave", he just wanted to show the grave to jeremiah to be like "look, this is where your brother is buried, he is not coming back"
Gotham was supposed to be all about Gordon's rise through the GCPD. The Bruce to Batman only a small side story within it with some more explanation to the origins of a few of the Rogues gallery. What it ended up being was a great platform for setting up just about every villan for batman, ready and waiting for Gotham's Dark Knight to appear and protect the city. Every one of the villans stole the show from Gordon's story. Cameron IS the Joker for this Universe. The twin spin could easily set up for both Nicholson and Ledger Jokers in those universes
This is the most underrated joker.Cameron is very underrated. I really hope they would make a movie out of this type of joker.
Cameron Monaghan is such a FANTASTIC actor. He captured the essence of Joker down to the T without actually “officially” being the Joker. The only other one that’s just as amazing was Mark Hamill.
Also, I just realized something: Mark Hamill played a Jedi in live action and a Joker in a video game. Cameron played a Jedi in a video game and a Joker in live action.
Dude Cameron was so freakin good playing the Jeroker.
i wish gotham got a chance to show a proper joker and batman on a bigger budget bc monaghans joker wouldve been so great
also gotham is just incredible
Loved Gotham and it's portrayal of the origins of Gotham's villlians and hero.
6:55 is exactly what the end of the new joker implies sadly
One thing I like about the clear change in voice between Jerome is that I believe Cameron said that because Jerome got stabbed in the neck when he died that’s why his voice altered
I've never seen this show, but I'm absolutely cackling at the premise. Also, he comes back to life? Just boom!! "I'm ALIVE!!!" Wild. Crazy. Insane even. I love it.
The show actually gives a reason for him not being dead. It's not as crazy as this video makes out. See kids, this is why you can't judge something you haven't seen.
@HOTD108_ ...so you're saying I shouldn't love it because the show isn't so bold as to simply plop our psychotic baby boy back into existence by popular demand with no explanation and instead re-alives him via the powers of either contrived plot device or a hackneyed retcon. Note taken o' wise 'misconstrueder of genuine glee for poorly executed sarcasm'
8:03
I didn't know how much I'd appreciate it until I heard it, but calling the Joker from the comics the "real Joker" really hit home for me. It's absolutely correct; the comics are the original and the "real" DC universe(s)
I would love to watch your video on Oswald Cobblepot. Gotham really made him stand out and entertaining.
The dead man's trigger is actually quite popular in a lot of media. I'm not sure what made you think that Gotham invented it when it's been featured in film and television for decades.
Dawg, what is Cal Kestis doing in Gotham?💀💀💀
Like Jerome said, he is simply 'An Idea', and that's what he should've been: An Idea. They could've played with that more. Have different people, each with a similar trait of J's. They even did something like that in the Pilot: a struggling comedian making Fish Mooney laugh, mostly out of pity.
6:54 "i think its a pretty offensive idea that the joker is just a copycat of someone he saw on tv"
Welcome to 2024 and the Joker 2
yeah. I was thinking that when I was watching Joker 2. Like WTF, this again?
16:36 damn i didnt know joker went super saiyan
“Is this a romantic thing?”
Yeah… the relationship between Batman and the Joker has always been a toxic romance. If you understand that, so much about the Joker’s ambiguous motivations make sense.
3:47 you really got me laughing with that.
This has just made me want to rewatch Gotham
This was a great video, having loved and watched the show, I was so confused all these years because they both were everything JOKER without being JOKER.
Why does Jeremiah look like MatPat 💀
This is so wild. My Cory catfish were named Jerome and Jeremiah
Cam just played that role great I wish they'd let him play him in something
Joker’s a Super Saiyan?!? So he’s the first green haired transformation we’ve seen wow!
The blind old guy. His name rings a bell. 🛎🛎
Bruh looks like AI generated MatPat
6:40 aged well
Was just about to comment this 😂
Gotham is one of my favorite iterations of Batman and one of my favorite TV series of all time. I was hooked on every second of the show.
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I watched all of Gotham and I remember about 10% of it. Thanks for the recap.