Dialogue Editing for Film Demo
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- Опубліковано 26 сер 2024
- Editing the dialogue sound for your film and video projects can seem a little daunting, especially when you have two or more actors, each with a wireless lavalier microphone plus a boom microphone. How do you edit all those tracks? Do you just keep the boom and lavalier mics? Won’t it sound richer if you do keep them all?
It turns out that it generally will sound quite a bit worse if you keep them all and the main reason for using both lavalier microphones and a boom microphone is to give yourself options to use the best sounding mic in for each dialogue line.
In this demo, we show the basics on how to start a dialogue edit using Adobe audition. In this demo, we exported the edit of the film from Final Cut Pro X.
If you’d like to learn how to make great dialogue audio for your film and video projects, please have a look at my courses at school.learnli... including processing dialogue audio, recording sound, how to use the Zoom F8 and F8n, and how to get the most from the Sound Devices MixPre series of recorders.
Links to gear used to record the film and this video:
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XToCC - app to convert XML from Final Cut Pro to XML that Adobe Audition can use:
intelligentassi...
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Electrovoice RE20 - The mic I used to record my voiceover for this tutorial
Amazon: geni.us/kP1lo
B&H: bhpho.to/2z4hAc2
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Universal Audio Apollo X6 - Microphone preamp and Thunderbolt 3 Audio Interface used to record my voiceover for this tutorial.
Amazon: geni.us/NO4X
B&H: bhpho.to/2CwRx3b
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Aputure COB120dmkII - Key light for lighting Amanda
Amazon: geni.us/lHTcfa
B&H: bhpho.to/2yUWD4z
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Aputure Light Dome II - Newer version of the big soft box with faster setup and gel holder
Amazon: geni.us/LirLfz
B&H: bhpho.to/2Osyx8j
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Lupo Superpanel Full Color 30 - RGB 1x1 panel light for Lighting Bridget
B&H: bhpho.to/2MBVZSE
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Audio Ltd A10 Wireless Microphone System - Used for Bridget and Amandas lavalier microphones
Gotham Sound: bit.ly/2ONCI1E
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Countryman B6 Lavalier Microphone - Bridget’s lavalier mic
B&H (version for Sennheiser G3, other versions available here): bhpho.to/2KtoHS6
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DPA 4160 Lavalier Microphone - Amanda’s lavalier mic
B&H (version with microdot universal connector): bhpho.to/2CuOIiP
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Sound Devices 633 Audio Recorder/Mixer - Field recorder used to record the film sound
DVeStore: www.dvestore.co...
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Sennheiser MKH 8050 - This is the boom mic used to record the film
Amazon: geni.us/mUcDk
B&H: bhpho.to/2zozur3
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Copyright 2018 by Curtis Judd
Music Copyright 2018 by Cary Judd. Used with permission.
Ethics statement: Some of the links above are Amazon.com, B&H Photo, or other affiliate links.
Curtis this was very helpful! When it comes to sound, you are what my mom calls an eminence.
Thanks Alejandro!
Great insight! Thanks for taking the time to show your process.
Thanks Randy.
One more reason I love Davinci Resolve and the audio power of the Fairlight Tab :D
Yes, except when it comes to using the features of RX that I have to round-trip such as adaptive phase rotation.
Curtis, you've lost me with this answer! I have Resolve as well.
Nice video really helped 👍 😀
🙏
Brilliant thanks I'm teaching a beginners basic filmmaking class this helps a lot
👍🏻
Nice vid. I’ve done only a couple dialog edits so don’t have much experience but I did my track edits in place with automation rather than copy pasting to new tracks. Not saying my way is better, I just didn’t think of creating new tracks!
Automation is my preferred method with a control surface. And some people are able to power through an edit automating with a mouse one channel at a time. All legit!
Thire is phase invert between lav and boom ?
Yes, almost always.
Hey Curtis, Thanks so much for this. I'd love to see more in-depth videos on audio editing. One thing I am struggling with is getting consistent audio over across an entire scene, starting with my master wide, then moving in for mediums and close ups. I'm referring to actual mic placement for the scene. When I move in for my close ups, should I keep the boom the same distance from the talent as I did in my master? Those kinds of topics would be really helpful. Thanks again.
Hi Ranhoff, different people feel differently about this but one mixer I admire, Jeff Wexler, suggests that for wide shots you definitely should move the mic farther from the talent in most cases.
Great video! Thanks
Thanks Mark.
Show how you get the levels and volume in the right place and other stuff for better and cleaning sound! Thanks!
Ok, will do!
So we don't really use Boom mic takes if the Lav is bright and clear right? We just keep the lav takes and mix them with room tones and put reverbs on them to make them sound true to the scene. Correct?
There are no hard and fast rules. You have to use whichever microphone works best for that situation. And yes, sometimes that includes blending them, but do make sure they are completely phase aligned if you use both at the same time if you aren't specifically trying to create a comb-filtered sound.
@@curtisjudd Thank you! :)
Curtis, Sorry for this basic question - I’m a newbie - what would it sound like if you didn’t add the cross fade? Clearly audible? Or subtle?
Hi Ted, it depends but in some cases it can be quite obvious. Best to apply cross fades at every cut where possible.
Thx for the efforts. I sincerely admire your consideration and your understanding of the audio aspect of a production. I have to say, I am not so convince about this particular episode regarding the audio post common workflow, especially for a fiction show. As is picture editing and color grading, sound editing and sound mixing are two different things. A fast way to make this distinction, is that you're not supposed to "cut" any audio content during the mixing part. Editing sound is not so different than editing pictures in the sense that you're selecting and assemble "chunks" that are the most appropriate in a way that creates (or doesn't break) the impression of continuity. Bottom line, you didn't demonstrate mixing in any aspect in this video, you showed one possible approach to sound editing which in my opinion, can be valid for a very short fiction or a corporate content, but not very common.
To people arguing that this can be achieved in NLE's. You're essentially right because no actual mixing was done in this episode. In the film industry, editors do cut sound in a similar way to improve the quality of the sequence they're putting together. They even apply some cleaning process, add sound fx and musics, all in avid, or whatever platform they work on, before the cut is locked and passed to sound department. Nowadays, NLE's are better than they used to be at that. If you don't have screws or don't know how to use them, using nails can allow to get the job done. Or not...
Hi Michael, this is a demo of dialogue editing, not mixing. The mixing part is yet to come. I attempted to be clear on that point.
The title and beginning of the video is very clear about this. It's less clear at the end when you talk about listening to the new mix you just achieved or adding room tone fine tuning the fades in the mixing process. Maybe I'm to french and to pointy about this, but I wanted to make sure there's no confusion. I found this video ua-cam.com/video/NoAEnjEX9S8/v-deo.html about the dialogue editing part. It's done in protools but except for the track naming convention you successfully demonstrate how it's basically done (in audition) and even more importantly what's the logic behind it. Thank you again.
Thanks Michaël. I appreciate the comment.
Nice. I wasn't able to see the Lav's - how did you hide them on the talent in this scene? Thanks! Awesome stuff as always!
I used the good old moleskin sandwich and Joe's Sticky Stuff technique to hide them just under the necklines on their shirts. It worked really well in this case. This way, the mic and moleskin rub against the skin instead of against the clothing which results in a lot less clothing rustle.
Clothes rustle has ruined some of my earlier interviews. Shooting outdoors with the windshield on the lav, with a guy who guestured wildly.
Curtis, do you cover your technique somewhere? I've just used hypoallergenic tape on bare skin, making sure clothing can't directly touch mic.
Good ole Joes sticky stuff. Thanks!
Good morning Curtis, thank you as always for sharing your excellent knowledge.
I ended up purchasing a pair of Tascam DR10L's and am happy with their practical use but not so much with the sound of their included Lavaliers. They don't sound natural.
For the purpose of Film Dialogue (and in addition to a boom setup...NTG-3 + ZOOM F4) what sound (warm, cool, flat, bright) should be looking for in a lav?
I have heard different things concerning the compatibility of certain lavalier microphones with the Tascam DR10L. Some think they work some think they don't. I believe that you used an alternative lav microphone in your Tascam DR10L review...it might have been your Zoom f1 review...I can be wrong.
The lavaliers I'm considering are: Tram TR50, AudioTechnica AT899, Countryman B3, Oscar SoundTech, Sanken COS11. Which of these (or any others you may think of) are compatible with the Tascam DR10L and suited for short film dialogue?
The Tascam DR10L does provide Bias Voltage and I believe that certain version of these microphones have 3.5mm jacks that would fit the Tascam DR10L...I think they are the lavaliers that are meant to work with Sennheiser systems. I can be wrong. Please advise.
I should mention that I am on a tight budget...approx $300 for a pair of lavs to upgrade the Tascams included lavs. I am ok with purchasing used also. Or would the Giant Squid lavs that you've reviewed in the past be a solid choice?
Hi Javier, I used a Sanken COS-11D wired for Sennheiser in my review of the Tascam DR-10L. That worked nicely but the Sanken is outside the budget you cited. I would probably try the Oscar Sound Tech lavaliers.
Curtis Judd thank you as always!
Questions:
A) do you mean the Oscar Soundtech 801/802 or the TL40?
B) I have an opportunity to purchase two used Countryman B3's wired for Sennheiser $220. Ate these a better option than the Oscar Soundtech? Or will the Oscars be better for the purpose of film dialogue?
Thanks Curtis!
Hi Javier, I was referring to the 81/802. The B3 is also good though I’ve never formally compared the B3 and 801/802 head to head. If you can try the B3s before you buy, that’d be ideal. If not, I’m guessing they’re pretty similar, both better than the Tascam mic. Good luck!
Nice demo. Wondering if you have ever used PluralEyes and if you could do a similar demo with multiple mics or sound recorders, etc. Using the PE software is pretty straightforward, but integrating into an editing workflow (FCP X) is a bit tricky.I thought of using your approach (exporting/importing all sync'd tracks and basically chopping up to leave the good slices), but hoping for a more efficient technique with more than 3+ source tracks (several video/audio + separate audio recorders, etc.).
Hi eleones, yes, definitely a great app for syncing sound. I haven't used it with FCPX, however. Will need to see how that works. Thanks!
Personal View, When shooting a narrative piece with a LOT of short clips, it is much faster to use an app like PluralEyes. It is possible to do it one by one with an NLE, but if you need to move more quickly, PE is useful.
Can you give us tutorial on how to edit a live band audio for video? love your your work very informative...
Hi Osvaldo, thanks. I'm working on my recording skills so that I can do that in the future. Best wishes!
Hi, are you going to continue and do the followup videos you were talking about?
Yes, I had a big pile of reviews I needed to finish first. Almost done with them.
How do you sync the audio to the video
The big video editing apps all have a feature which automatically lines up the audio from the audio recorder to the sound on the video clip. Or for narrative films like this, we use timecode to make syncing in post easier: ua-cam.com/video/o36XYOPp0BE/v-deo.html
Can you hook up 2 mics 2 1 transmitter??
That depends on the transmitter. Very few support this natively.
Hi, I really need to see the final product of the sound design of this footage, I’m not satisfied with the sound yet. Do you happen to have one?
ua-cam.com/video/FxZ75MNHT0E/v-deo.html
That was amazing 😦 thanks!
Hi Curtis, thanks for the video. In an interview edit, is there a way in premiere cc to auto select the audio of the camera that is being used in multi cam sequence ?
Hi Nikhil, Thanks for the question. I'm not sure I understand. Are you looking for a cut to also cut to different audio?
Yes precisely. So the audio matches the camera that is selected in the multi cam edit. So if Subject A is speaking and is recorded on Camera A only that audio track is cut in. Then if switched to Subject B on Camera B, that audio track is cut in with the video. Is it possible to have that ?
I believe it is possible. I have to confess that I haven't edited with Premiere now for about 3 years, but as I recall, there is a little icon at the top of the Multicam view pane that allows you to define whether just the video/audio/or both are cut when you switch from one camera to another.
Thanks I will do some research on this further. Appreciate your channel and work. It is very nice to see someone sober and grounded, some of the other channels are too in ones face and extroverted. Yours is always pleasant. Best Wishes.
Thanks Nikhil and best wishes!
Why is the boom mic needed? Can't dialogue just be recorded using 2 lav mics?
Lav mics often don’t sound as good and sometimes vice versa.
@@curtisjudd Then why are we using lavs in the first place?
@@mychess5821 Because sometimes they're a better choice than the boom mic. The idea is to give yourself options in post.
@@LearnLightAndSoundSessions Thanks Curtis for all ur answers 😇 Really appreciate it 👍
Pro tools. Industry standard.
Yes it is.
Thanks, again a great video. Just in case I did miss it - I have around 10hours of filmed Dialouge that are going to stay roughly 10hours long. We used 2 boom mics which unfortunately started "bleeding" into each other - so I have a bit of phasing and just having both mics on for the whole time is not really clean. Is there a way to automate the selection of "relevant" mic? I guess I could do what you showed, but that would be very time consuming. Something like auto ducking for Voiceover and music? I guess I could do that by selecting one Interviewers voice as "music" and the other one as a voice over - but really not happy with the results.
Have you done a video about this topic that I missed or can you recommend one in case I haven't found it yet?
Thanks a lot...your videos have always been a massive help!
Hi RAW CREATION, unfortunately, I don't know of a cheap or fast way to do this. It'd be great if someone came up with a plugin for DAWs to automatically do this. Waves has a plugin - Dugan Automixing - but it is for high-end hardware mixer consoles. I have an Allen and Heath mixer (SQ5) that does it but you'd have to run the recorded audio through it and back out to another recording. The Sound Devices 6xx series mixer/recorders do it while recording but that won't help on the recordings you already have and they're not cheap either. There's definitely a market opportunity here!
@@curtisjudd thanks a lot! If you ever come across anything - would love to hear your opinion about it. :)
@@ArdalanAram Many digital mixer have dugan mixing like the behringer x32, which also has phase shift on each mic, they are cheaper digital mixer, but still pricey. A cheaper solution is to buy audio interface (many people buy the cheap behringer with midas pre beacuse they are very quiet or foucusrite are also good but pricey) and get a free DAW or purchase a cheap one, which have free plugins.
hi there :) awesome tutorial. How do i easy sync all my audio files into premiere pro first? It got the automate process (multicam) where i can give 3 claps to sync at first everything, or does it have an easier method? we got also lavelier mics and 2 boom mics. Or do you work with timecode like in zoom f8n? what do you recommend :)?
Pluraleyes is worth consideration. I usually use timecode.
Good day Curtis, might you offer advise on which version of Izotope (or other)would be a solid choice to use with Adobe Auditon? Hoping it would include noise gates and compression. I am hoping to make a purchase this coming up week
Hi Javier, I use Izotope RX 7 Advanced because it also includes the phase module which I rely on for fixing asymmetric waveforms. It is EXPENSIVE, but since I do a fair amount of paid post work, it is worth the cost. Audition's latest update has much better noise reduction than it used to have and has always had very usable compressor plugins so I would work with Audition first to see whether it fits your needs.
@@curtisjudd Thank you as always, I will do just that!
Mr. Judd I have a question: I plan on doing film sound editing work in Audition since I can't afford Pro Tools right now. I know importing from Prempro to Audition is a breeze, but do you have experience importing other projects from popular NLEs such as Avid, and Davinci into Audition without any issues? If so, what's your recommendation? Should I use AAF or OMF 2.0 to export? Any thoughts? I have researched for a while and there seem to be conflicting info out there. Thank you sir for your knowledge I just discovered your channel!
Hi Aldo, Definitely experiment to see which works best for you. I’ve worked mostly with OMF only because that’s what the editors have been able to provide me. AAF is a newer format and can handle larger files (I.e., embed all of the audio clips for even a feature length piece) but OMF seems to have broken that limitation as well. OMF has been in use longer so more applications support it. You lose some info in the translation depending on the editing app the video comes from - fades and metadata, for example.
In short, I still find both interchange formats pretty rough so I generally go in with the mindset that I’ll need to allocate some time to first clean up the mess and set up my tracks and metadata so I can get to work editing and mixing.
Curtis Judd great info thank you. And I have been watching several of your videos and have already learned so much in one day! Thank you and look forward to future tutorials!
Speaking as a novice: couldn't you duplicate the video twice, then delete all but one lav for each, so you will have Amanda lav video and Bridget lav video. They I would do a multi cam edit for the 2 lav videos, switching only sound. When done I would add a small percentage mix of the boom to the output of the final multi-cam output. This way I can stay in FCPX for the full edit. Would that work??? What do you think?
RemekTek Media I use premiere, so I don’t know much about FCP, but I’d make sure you don’t use hard cuts between the two clips as you describe. The instantaneous change in mic source could sound pretty jarring. Also I’m pretty sure he is using audition because he intends to add effects and edit the audio more in audition for the final mix.
Thanks for this. Point taken on hard cuts. FCP actually has a rich choice of EQ and Effects plus facility for 3rd part plugins, so I prefer to stay within the NLE if I can.
Definitely use what works for your case. The demo here is usually what is used for narrative films with a budget. But if you can pull it all off in an NLE, definitely do it. Usually once you get to the mix stage and add sound design elements and foley, etc., an NLE gets pretty cumbersome. But for simpler sound mixes, most of the modern NLEs can pull it off. Especially Resolve which is essentially an NLE and DAW all in one.
Exactly, the reason I'm going to all the trouble of converting the XML to get to Audition is because the later mix work will work a lot better in a proper DAW than in an NLE.
Hey Curtis, this is great. I have a question: Why record the boom track if you never use it? All you used is the lav tracks. Thanks!
Hi Adam, I record both so that I have options. Many times, the boom ends up sounding more natural.
Boom mics are much better sounding, plus more directional.
Makes sense. Thanks!
He explains why he didn’t use the boom at 7:03. The boom operator “missed the cues”. In other words, he didn’t have the mike in the right place :)
As a backup sometimes, if you really doing big record which people are paying alot of money you need a backup if those lav sudden die for some reason.
Thank you for this nice video. I enjoyed it. May I ask you if you would eq the Lav of the Mom or gain it; as it sounds hotter than the daughter’s lav? God bless you. 🌹
Hi Michael, definitely, yes. I’d do that as part of the mix phase.
Curtis Judd Thank you for clarifying this 🌺
Hi sir, Do you have info for marantz PMD 602A, its a cheap audio adapter for $99 with lots of controls and audio limiter, is it any good?
Hi tedjo, unfortunately no. I’d like to give it a try.
@@curtisjudd thx for the answer and i'll glad to see you to reviewing it, cause it will be good gear for those who have such an extremely tight budget like me, lets see if it can pair well with zoom H1 and NTG2/4
No Promises, but if the opportunity arises, I will review it.
@@curtisjudd thanks sir for your kindly responses :D
@@curtisjudd thanks sir for your kindly responses :D
Love to see if you show techniques on micing up talent. On women, it's so touchy. I try to have them stick mic on themselves, or have a female PA do it. Even guys can be annoyed at you messing with them. My last shoot no one told the guy I was going to mic him, he was really unhappy with me even asking him to drop the cord down his shirt etc. Not happy times at end of long day. Have not been punched yet...
Thanks Scott, yes, this is a good topic worth revisiting. In this case these were not professional actors. My approach with non-pros is usually to explain to the women what we're trying to achieve in hiding the lavalier mic and explain in detail where and how to attach it. In this case, I had moleskin around the mic with a little bit of Joe's Sticky Stuff to attach to their shirts/tops. I explained how I wanted them to place them just below the neckline on the inside of their shirts and then sent them off to do it themselves. This worked pretty well in this case. I then added a loop to the cable near the bottoms of their shirts. For men, I usually attach it myself by first explaining in detail what I'm going to do and what I'm doing, also explaining why. Of course I have to read their cues to decide how much detail to share.
For pro actors, it is usually a lot easier. Most of them say, "I've done this a bunch of times, do what you need to do..." But if they're newer, I'll default back to the above approach.
Definitely worth covering this again in a future video. Thanks!
Similar process if using Logic Pro I suppose?
Yes. Apple made changes to Logic about a year ago that makes importing audio tracks from FCPX to Logic easier and more accurate. It's worth looking into the details. However, FCPX handles audio editing well, and for the example Curtis uses here I would stay in FCPX and not bother with an export to Logic/re-import to FCPX.
Definitely, what Rory on a Bike said. :) Even easier and more seamless than what was shown here. I go through the extra trouble because Audition's waveform mode is uniquely suited to educational demos for processing Audio.
Thank you, Rory on a Bike and Curtis Judd.
Curtis Judd, I never thought about editing the audio outside FCPX and this channel has been very helpful as I start working with bigger projects. Really appreciate what you are doing!
Thanks Pedro.
I'd like to make the observation that there was nothing done to the audio in this example that could not have been done more quickly and more easily within Final Cut Pro. I want to make this point because one person has already asked what the problem is with Final Cut that this audio would have to be sent to Audition. My assumption is that Curtis went through this round trip because he thought that it would show something about process and/or didn't want the whole video to be FCP specific. To see what Final Cut can actually do with audio, perhaps watch Kraig Adams's video, uploaded yesterday, on how he edited a recent video on his trip to Colorado: ua-cam.com/video/v0Zu7enQ0TM/v-deo.html For those who are using Final Cut, it's worth noting that Ripple Training's FCPX course contains a lot of information on editing audio within FCP.
Thanks Rory on a Bike, yes, if you're just doing a simple dialogue edit, any of the modern NLEs are sufficient. However, for narrative film where one wants to create a great sound experience for the audience, mixing in an NLE has limitations that often make the mix experience more difficult. That becomes more clear when you get to the sound design and mix stages.
So for those looking to keep things quick and simple, an NLE can often get the job done more efficiently. But if you're looking to make a rich aural experience for a narrative film, sound design and mixing in a DAW is a legitimate approach as well.
Personal View Right, people have money for cameras, audio recorders, microphones, lights, etc, but Apple is too expensive. I edit on a four year old 2014 iMac with Final Cut, software that has cost me US$50/yr or $4/month (I paid $300 for FCPX six years ago, updates are free).
Hey Curtis ! After seeing your zoom h1n review, I am using my year's savings to buy it. Please say that it won't dissapoint me and my money won't be wasted. Is it good for dialogues and foley? I know that you said that it is not great for dialogue and just ok. An amazon customer said that it captures aydio from all around and is not good for dialogues and needs a silent environment to record. But the other reviews were good. Please reply.
Hi Nashant. It's great to see someone your age working in stop-motion animation. Maybe Curtis will weigh in, but I think that the H1N is a very good choice for the money and will work fine for you. If you have a cell phone, you might also consider one of the small Røde microphones that can record to a phone, which might be less expensive.
@@roryonabike5863 thanks for the compliment ! Stopmotion is love ❤ I will buy the H1n really soon, for recording foley in my stopmotions and dialogues for some short films I am going to shoot soon !
I agree with Rory, the H1n is quite good. But a smartphone and lavalier microphone might be a less expensive, more effective way to record sound. Consider one of these lavalier mics which we compared last year: ua-cam.com/video/CZKs1U1GA84/v-deo.html Good luck!
@@curtisjudd i have been saving for a better option, as i have got a lavalier, but I think that it, when connected to the H1n, will produce a better sound quality. And also it could be connected to shotgun mics in the future. Hope you don't mind and thanks for the suggestion, and I have watched the video earlier. Thanks again!
That's great. Happy recording!
Gday
What Ive noticed since 2010 in TV and FILM is a bad direction
Voices (vocals) are low, my guess 55%
Background SFX often is louder , my guess 75%
Background music is the loudest , my guess 95%
At night we are often changing volume to hear the vocals , yet decrease the music
Along with a lot of FILM and TV
Removing Natural Colors
Adding Blue Tint
Adding Grey Tint
Adding DARK FILTER
thus changing the whole movie into an unnatural monochromatic result looking bland and devoid of color
Anyone else hate the infection of FORCED blue tint and dark filter into media these days ?
I agree. One of my favorite movies - Interstellar - has a rather bad dialogue mix. Color is a different matter in my mind, definitely many are darker and more monochromatic than they need to be but there's a whole lot of personal preference in there. The movies I work on aren't generally colored like that so I think I understand your perspective on that.
Teal and orange! Ha ha. Seiously, we all know sound is critical, yet no one on set pays much attention to it. And unless the director emphasizes it, talent can get resentful of what you need to do. Especially when lavs are not expected.
See the final short film at ua-cam.com/video/FxZ75MNHT0E/v-deo.html NOTE: This is only step one in a common workflow for narrative films. For simpler videos, there are simpler work flows. We are specifically addressing longer-form narrative films and even short films, especially when you get to the mix stage and will be doing sound design. That is where a video editing NLE is not usually sufficient.
Ok, will do.