Recover from narcissistic abuse by deciding how you’re spoken to
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- Опубліковано 3 лис 2022
- A scapegoat child can reason that their narcissistic parent only yells at them because the child behaved so badly. Today, we explore the tactics narcissistic parents use to condition a scapegoated child to embrace the abuse they receive as a result of their wrongdoings, inadequacy, or incompetence.
Of course, I'll also show you how to break free of the legacy of this abuse.
If you're eager to finally start your journey towards narcissistic abuse recovery, I highly suggest you check out my Map to Recovery from Narcissistic Abuse Course for a full, in-depth guide to recovery.
Click HERE 👉 lp.jreidtherapy.com/narcissis...
You can also grab your FREE copy of my book, Surviving Narcissistic Abuse as the Scapegoat, by clicking HERE 👉 lp.jreidtherapy.com/optin?utm...
#jayreid #jayreidpsychotherapy
My favorite lie is "This hurts me more than it hurts you," as they beat the shit out of you.
So abusive. You deserve happiness
Kristen Meyer It's absolutely shocking and I can't believe how many parents and others don't see anything wrong with assaulting their children! I've noticed from listening to talkback radio that they get very angry when the no smacking debate arises periodically in the country I've lived in since I was young.
I've also heard a lot of them say that children and teenagers are out of control nowadays, due to not getting hit enough. Lol. I've mentioned that there was plenty of violence in NZ in the 60s and 70s when children were regulary assaulted, including at school.
It has been made a crime in New Zealand, which is my homeland. Mind you, NZ does have the highest rate of child abuse and family violence in the developed world.
I've said to people that many children ARE still being smacked etc nowadays and it's called Domestic Violence when adults assault each other, so it's not okay to do it to little ones! I'm aware that it's very stressful being a parent though, hence why things can happen. ❤
@@cyndigooch1162 You made an excellent point about how it's considered domestic violence between adults, when children are by definition helpless. That makes violence against children a lower moral crime.
Yeah, that was my dad's line, and as a kid I used to believe it and feel guilty for being so bad... But, I can never remember what it was that I did that was so bad, just the regular beatings.
How about stop crying or I'll give you something to cry about, did you hear that one too?
The hardest thing is going through life having no voice.. everything is denied, nobody will hear you out, approach a subject and get shut down. one way or another
I hear you. *Hugs*
@@ExitDivision-xq9lp Thanks
I experienced a judge and minions (gang stalkers) do that. It just made them look bad.
@@pearpo good for you!! it's a win!
I used to point out exactly this... my voice couldnt be heard... when the voice of your heart is shutdown... your soul shuts down... that is when I started to get physically sick
My mom is like this. She always has to have an antagonist in her life. Even if she only has one person in her life. She'll change that person from protagonist to antagonist just to have someone to complain about. I set my boundaries with how she speaks to me. It works.
Same here, plus I moved to another continent
@@reginapolo3357 HAHAHA AWESOME.
@@reginapolo3357 lmao 🤣. Boundaries are boundaries and they work either way.
@@Michadoo true, but it doesn't hurt to keep a distance
My experience is that my mother needed my (2 year) older sister to make me her scapegoat. My sister was her Golden child. I always was there for my sister..and thought I could trust her.. (not seeing that my mom made this fake trust and loyalty towards my sister!)
My mother died 3 years ago….. 💥 ⚡️ Soon after, my sister started smearing me to familie as friends and used her son (13 years old) to scapegoat me (I couldn’t defend myself as I was/am not there) besides that I get the silence treat and shunned me. Didn’t speak nobody now for 3 years now ….wonder if my other family members have any feeling of shame or a conscious mind , I know my sister hasn’t.
So yes, definitely ‘they need others for making someone a scapegoat’!
I remember my mother scolding me for not cleaning the kitchen. After I'd spent an hour cleaning it, and it was obviously cleaner than it had been. When she couldn't find a reason to hate me, she made one up.
Like “ I know that you see what needs to be done ( or what’s wrong) 😳
Nothing was ever good enough, or done to her standards of perfection. Acceptable wasn't allowed!
“When she couldn’t find a reason to hate me, she made one up.”
I felt that. 😕
What amazed me is having bosses who correct an error without the least bit of insult. You get used to respect.
Added in - and maybe that's why a controlling person doesn't like you to try different jobs, a different church, a different religion, or social group because you discover that while psychological abuse is common and ugly, respect is normal. Once you soak up healthy social norms, the narc or any psychological manipulator is like what a weirdo. And you ignore them.
Most businesses top positions are full of narcissists
@@Clevelandsteamer324 I totally agree. And their companies are total flying monkey squadrons. The exceptions are few. I look at a job as if I am "hiring a boss". My last one was good.
Yess!
Having a narc parent definitely produces a hyper vigilance
Well, it seems to do something to the nervous system for sure. It upsets me a bit that doctors used to prescribe antidepressants in a trial-and-error fashion based on symptoms. When I was younger I tried Prozac, Zoloft, Paxil, Wellbutrin, not all at the same time but sequentially and I even tried to see therapists when I was younger but I didn't know what narcissism was and I didn't have the words for it. Sadly since I didn't understand what I was experiencing (narcissist abuse and also being disconnected from myself)... well since I didn't understand it I couldn't explain it, none of the therapists had a clue. I think I talked to five therapists/medical professionals. Anyways, not only does having a narc parent have a real impact, getting help for it can be super difficult and confusing initially for young people, at least it was for me because I didn't know the specific terms people use to describe it.
Any trauma does
For sure.
@@emmalouie1663 super difficult for sure.
Absolutely. I've lived "on guard" all of my long life. (I have healed a lot in the last year, but, there's been SO much to unravel!)
I grew up in a small Panamenian town. My mother kept company with equally bullying friends that would celebrate and laugh at the way she berated me. I ran away at 16 but returned and left again at 18 but kept in touch. From there on I worked like a dog to buy her whatever she wanted (she was constantly demasculaning my father because he could not). Thanks to having to proof to her that I was worth more than she though of me; I became successful, but things never changed. At the age of 56 I called it quit. Thanks to my success, I was able to retired to another continent. To all young people out there, PLEASE DONT WAIT. Go be happy.
I didn't know the root issue and they kept visiting me in another continent for decades with the same treatments. Glad for you.
@@lisbethsalander1723 they wont be visiting, I am the big earner, and unless I buy the fare..........
I needed to hear this. I still have contact with my narc abusive dad. Mostly because he made every attempt to prevent me from becoming successful to keep me financially dependant on him and it paid off.
I have always earned my own living, but they've always been minimum wage shitty jobs, living paycheck to paycheck. Every time I got the chance at something better he would fly into rages at me and say I wasn't good enough and I wouldn't be able to do it and I believed him.
I was an A* student at school and very ambitious (my teachers wanted me to do law at uni) but he sabotaged my attempts at going to university. (I won't go into detail or this will be an essay, but he sabotaged my ability to study in numerous ways).
I'm early 40s and too old to find something else and be really successful and make money now. He is in his early 70s, great health, very wealthy. Me and my siblings stand to inherit over $200k each after he passes.
His inheritance is likely the only financial stability I will ever see in my life and my only hope of affording to buy my own home or having any stability. I am concerned about the cost of living crisis and he helps me to support my own children financially and as my mother has passed - he provides invaluable free childcare that I couldn't afford otherwise. But I hate him looking after my kids and whilst he is not abusive to them (he was also not abusive to me as a very young child), I fear that one day he might be and I absolutely could not tolerate that.
Most of my peers are in the same position and are also relying on inheritted wealth to afford their own homes and have any safety net for the future. The next age will be one of inheritted wealth as very few millennials are able to have any financial stability without parental help.
I appreciate that hasn't been your experience and it's awesome that you were able to be successful despite your abuse - but that is the exception and not the norm. In the context of this, it is so tough for me to cut him off. He has deliberately designed it this way.
But I know I won't ever be happy if I don't and feel I may regret it forever if I don't. It seems I will regret it either way.
What are your thoughts?
@@sregan5415 you are in your 40's......i finished my BA degree from Tulane University at 49. I was doing well before, but I wanted my degree
@@reginapolo3357 You're right. I'm making excuses for putting up with the abuse. But honestly, even if I don't achieve financial success, do you believe it is still worth it to get that toxicity out of your life?
When I first started to work for a living I used to try and dress well and look immaculate and I was never confident about myself. My mother used to say "look at you, you fancy yourself" and it was very hurtful. On other occasions if I was not quite up to scratch she would say "look at you, what a sight you are". I couldn't win. One evening my sister that I loved, who was the golden child, said after my mother berated my appearance "come on mum, let's go for a walk but we're not taking HER with us". That cut like a knife and many many years later, I still remember that. However, I must be healing because I am no longer feel shame that they treated me like that. These videos are worth their weight in gold and so helpful to our healing.
It helps my situation to hear you have overcome this!
@@Benjaminleo815 Lanie, I am so glad to hear that. The more I watch these videos, the more I can understand why and that is a great way to heal. I am sending you all my good wishes and I hope that you can overcome the cruelty that you are experiencing. You are worth so much more and please do not take on board what others say as they are they weak ones and you are stronger than you think. Take care and thank you for your kind comment.🌻
@@sandramurray5879 Sending love your way as well!
@@Benjaminleo815 Thank you so much, Lanie.❤
Wow, interesting how they pick on different things. Appearance seems to be a common one, easy target. My dad would always pick on something he would say "look at those" (fill in the blank) and then laugh like they looked stupid. It just made me mad. They have a sickness of trying to increase their own worthless feeling about themselves by tearing down others or even just things others like. I bet you looked smashing and your mom couldn't handle it. They can't stand anyone feeling good about themselves or anything .
Thank you, Jay. This was very relatable. I would get yelled at for things like folding the towels wrong or using the incorrect utensil to stir cake batter. Was once cornered on my bed and “yell-lectured” at for 2 hours. It has cause so much destruction in my life because I compulsively fawn, take responsibility for things that weren’t my fault, and pretty much assume that everyone else knows best. Trying to unravel and gain new perspectives but even if you intellectually know these things, when you’re in the moment, you just act… it’s compulsive & involuntary. It’s taking a lot of hard self & other awareness to try to behave differently.
Your comment is so relatable for me, and these examples help me to concretely confirm that my dad is a narc too. He would yell at me for inane things like this too. Spilling milk on the countertop. Dropping coins on the floor.
It is only in my adult years that I have realised this feeling of pervasive anxiety and that you are defective and doing everything wrong, i. is not normal and most people do not feel that way and ii. was caused by my dad behaving this way towards me as a child. I blamed my lack of confidence on myself and took this as further proof that I am defective, rather than a concerted choice of an abusive meglomaniac to deliberately damage his own child.
I, too, am a compulsive fawner and then berate myself for being that way because intellectually know I shouldn't and need to assert tougher boundaries. Perhaps we should be easier on ourselves. And know that we are headed in the right direction, but such ingrained habits will not be removed overnight. I wish you all the best on your journey!
P.S. I also got cornered and hit in bed once for having the audacity to sleep in until midday as a teenager on the weekend. One of the reasons I was sleeping so much (although reading it back, a teenager sleeping till midday is not abnormal) is because I was dealing with depression caused by living with him at the time.
@@sregan5415 Yes this excessive sleeping when you live with 3 malignant psychopats.Thank you
One day when I was a kid my father got angry at me for accidentally bunching up cling-wrap-plastic film together, like Saran Wrap, he acted like I was doing it on purpose when all I was trying to do was put away leftovers from a meal. He acted like I was WASTING his money for messing up one single piece of saran wrap and for some reason I've never forgotten that day... this is the thing about narcissists, they have a way of taking something insignificant and using that minor issue to ruin a day and to cause upset. Also, my parents were not the type of people to teach kids how to do anything.
So agree!! That constant attack on you using a single piece of Saran Wrap.. wow that’s like comedy gold right there. Every single person who has ever used Saran Wrap has probably had a moment. Add on the great critic hating your mere breathing because it reminds them of themselves.. Eek 😱 gawd
And compulsive fawning is just what good children in Victorian-type homes do. Sheer politeness..
Don’t be hard on yourself for that. It’s just the Narcissistic Personality ravenously attacks all your good qualities like openness, optimism, tolerance, compassion, benefit of the doubt, kindness, etc and seek to exploit.
Limit contact with these personalities (if possible) once you see them take your kindness for weakness. Don’t get lulled in, or you kick yourself.
"It's survivable now to put your rights first now in relationships" - WOW!! I had to stop the video to take that in. OMG what a thing to learn at the age of 51! It brought tears to my eyes because I've suffered so much in adult relationships because I hadn't realised exactly this. Bless you once again Jay! 🙏💕
God Bless us all. So many ways we are still discovering they affected us, even at age 58 like me.
@@3rdStoneObliterum 50’s seems to be a key learning age. 😊
At 55 years old I'm with all of you on that one. Especially since we didn't have these teachings in our younger years, and we now are in a position to cull our wisdom ❤️
Lets be gentle with our self and keep healthy boundaries to keep our inner child and true self integrated :) We do heal from that heinous abuse that was never our fault. God speed! take it easy peeps! And value yourself today because we do matter ! Our inner child, needs and boundaries matter .
In a bit of a quandary with my mother in law " picking on " or "teasing" me the way my narcissistic dad did. How do I handle that? It always takes me by surprise and then I'm concerned if I say anything that there will be a dust up over it with my husband so I just take it. I don't want to go to Thanksgiving, I'm already dreading it. Who is going say what to me now. My plan is just to excuse myself to the restroom 😊. She keeps saying shit like "I'm spolied" and her son has to wait on me . I do at least my share of the household chores, I do all the lawn work, contribute to the bills, I'm not sitting around having him bring me a plate of food or anything so I really don't get this but I don't like it. If it was anyone else I wouldn't let them do that, I feel she is abusing her place over me and there is no way for me to call her on it.
I remember being berated for having spilled a bit of water on the kitchen floor, which was linoleum.
It's ridiculous isn't it?! So OTT, I remember that one very clearly.
Yes! Mine was spilling milk on the kitchen counter top. The freaking *counter top*. One time, when my sister didn't put the bottle top on the milk properly he called his brother and told him his kids were "disobeying the house rules". Pathetic. I would laugh if it hadn't affected me so much as an adult.
I survived a narcistic family system as the scapegoat as well. Those of us who were scapegoat know what this is all about. I lived 2 years alone with the narc parent. I felt disconnected from my true self, my spontaneity and sense of confidence when living with that narcisistic abusive parent, and this is the effect these narcs have in close relationships because they themselves dont have a connection to their sense of self, and they always project whatever reason, so its damned if you did and damn if you didnt. I numbed the trauma , with alcohol, I missed out on a lot on my teenage years. I got sober, and then joined support groups for trauma, i found a safe enough person to encourage me to be gentle on myself having survived what i survived , and obviously he was from a "crappy childhood" himself just a little further along the journey he served as a safe enough person at the time to encourage me to be gentle with myself, and also started modeling what healthy boundaries looked like. I was well away from my narcisitic abusive parent but i still wasn't out of my "fawn" response yet. Little by little i started absorbing the concept of gentleness, in my previous recovery group that treated addiciton there was a lot of critical language, and i was aborbing gentleness and seeing how some of the language was very unhelpful, in a trip to the States for a summer job i was more consolidated in my right to refuse disrespect more familiar with how it felt inside me , like a violation, and more commited to saying it,. In a summer job i had it was very toxic and i kept protesting unfair treatment, i finally walked out one day after one of them with narcisitc behaviour raged at me for talking back to him and saying a very fair point. I was genuinly tired and left the job site the next day walking out 5 miles down the high way and i felt the agency autonomy and selfcompromise to walk out of abusive environments and have my back rather than "catering" or "not rocking the boat" or people pleasing or whatever. I felt the commitment and self love again, and that lead to a good connection to my inner child and true self. No longer did i have. toput others first in a way that was self abandoning, i felt empowered from that moment because i had repeatedly expressed my dissatisfaction with the treatment and finally also followed through. From that day on i felt like the self protective instinct reawakened in me, the healthy anger, the healthy fight response to mark a boundary defend my emotional or physical space and my rights. With gentleness and healthy boundaries , my inner child and true self came out and i keep him integrated!!!! That moment i walked out of the job and felt again my healthy self protective instinct after having protested the unfair treatment enough, was also a moment i promised my inner child i would listen to the nudges he gives me of what feels right and what feels off and i would be his voice, and along with gentleness and selfcompassion this is how i keep my inner child integrated by honoring the nudges he gives me and keeping the boundaries and being his voice, and also communicating and letting safe enough others in, and trying to hold space for them too, in. areciprocal way, knowing my needs , my true self, and my healthy boundaries matter in a safe way today im grateful to God for His help in my healing journey.
In my childhood it was so bad that I tried to commit suicide as a child. Can you imagine how bad it should be if a child wants to commit suicide 😢I also left at 14 and wanted to live at my grandma. I was also saving lunch money to move away and change my name AS A CHILD. Narc family still thinks I’m overthinking this and need to move on.
I notice when I hear examples of the style of abuse that is able to be described in simple terms. Like getting yelled at for not taking out the trash. To me that sounds like easy to explain abuse. It makes me feel like I experienced a different type of situation. More like a concussion grenade to create a distraction and an ambush. I realize it originates from the same inner turmoil by the abuser regardless of the attack style. It has created a deep unease that the people I've encounter that use those tactics would go to great lengthens to continue doing so. Those tactics show up in lots of situations, always noticing subtleties. Trying to unlearn defense mechanisms that might still be needed is challenging. Even being in a safe place.
My mother used to say “Its not what you say, but the way you say it”. It was rubbish though cause it never used to matter how I said anything it was the same response. Oh and the double binds…I was both withdrawn and argumentative as a child apparently according to a doctors report I had. I feel bad for child me as hearing that sounds like a double bind and me trying everything to make the abuse stop. Thanks again Dr for another pondering creation.
"It's your rude and ungrateful tone" is what my dad used to say. I had no idea how my tone was bad (looking back, it wasn't at all - it was just a sweet little girl), but I worked overtime to try to sound as pleasant, gentle and none-threatening as possible (i.e. improve my "tone"). Of course, as an adult I get bullied for speaking this way because it's completely inappropriate to daily life, the workplace or garnering respect.
my mom tells me this too
You are so spot on! With my mum walking on eggshells, never fool proof, and wondering if you were the one on her agenda for the day, week, month. I learned survival mode by 5. I haven’t seen or spoken to her in ages and I feel so free. I’m surrounded by a beautiful support system and phenomenal therapist. I was the truth teller in the family. That woman hated my existence on Earth. I. DIDN’T. CARE. Her spewing lies disgusted me. I’m still finding out the truth and I’m 52f. Don’t forget to allow the “child within you”, to grieve and let them know they did nothing wrong. They deserved better. They are better. Then let that child go and be the amazing adult you are. Break those chains, you don’t own them.
This is so inspiring!! Thanks for sharing :)
I must be recovering because I had a dream where I told my abusive mother take responsibility for her own actions. I am no contact now, it was a flashback to being a teenager and being berated. Then recently someone stepped out of line in the way they spoke to me and I caught myself thinking I had done something to deserve it and realised it was their problem if they couldn't handle their emotions - not mine! I told them to take responsibility for their actions in the moment and then took appropriate actions afterwards to set boundaries and distance myself. It was very scary but felt good to be my own protector. Love and support to everyone working hard on their recovery!! :)
"That you're supposed misdeeds justify someone else's abusive behavior towards you"
This really hit home and it was always done under the guise of discipline.
Great video!!!
Same here. He "disciplined" me more than my brothers cause he "loved" me more. Fucking child abusing reptile. Where were these channels 50 yrs ago when I needed them. I hold the government AND ESPECIALLY THE CHURCH responsible for the coverup of these predatory abusers. They have been protecting them the whole time.( Centuries) For power and money and prestige
Thank you so much, Jay. Currently working on creating space from my abusive parents. It's been incredibly tough. I feel like I'm at war inside myself. But your videos and individual therapy has helped me recognize and put words to the continuing patterns of abuse and stand up for myself.
Same here😞❤
Literally like 4-10 times a day it just pops into my head " You're nothing". This isn't anything my narcissistic father or emotional unavailable mother actually said but us kids sure felt that way. I laugh sometimes when it happens because what else do I do with that. It is a constant daily reprogramming battle.
It is tough to create space from the parents for sure.
Ive no longer that people pleaser , i was trained to be in my childhood , sending things to please him , no emotional reponse for him , i thought why do i do this , just one way from me to him , i not taking it any more , need some self respect for yourself , part of my healing journey , all the best to all scapgoated person , thanks jay for what your doing
9
I have to figure out now how to assert my rights. I’m like a loose cannon right now. Not very graceful. I know exactly how to behave when others disrespect my rights. It’s what I’m used to. Now at age 54 I’m taking my first baby steps at respecting my own rights and setting boundaries to protect them. Hopefully with time it will get more natural and normal and comfortable.
keep exposing yourself because it takes practice. The more the better. Good luck!
It got a lot easier for me as I learned that everything I was fighting against and defending myself against was behavior I had ALLOWED. Now, instead of needing people to change and treat me with an appropriate level of respect, I JUST SIDESTEP THEM. My little voice (intuition) lets me know in the early, subtle stages when I’m dealing with someone who is unable to treat me with that respect, and if I’m paying attention to the little voice, I know to just get OUT of there!
And I do. There are times when I’m nudged to get away and there’s no obvious proof that the person is likely to be problematic, but I get away, anyway. Oftentimes, weeks, months or even YEARS later, I see the evidence of why I ABSOLUTELY should have avoided that person.
But the other thing is that we are like magnets for narcissists: they feel familiar on a subliminal level, and so we gravitate to them, and they gravitate to US. Both sides already know the steps to the dance, so it’s super-easy to engage. Understanding that and learning to recognize the signs that we’re about to enter into an old familiar and destructive dynamic-AND STOPPING IT, instead of trying to fix it-really helps us to learn to populate our work and social lives with healthy, generous, compassionate people. It’s a revelation! ❤
@@kippka great post
aha! just the guidance i am listening for, thank you. short term living with my parent who by facial expressions, voice tone and word choice, one would assume is disgusted by his child... whom in fact does not and that's where i get to lose my soul trying to bridge the gap... no longer :)
My mother does this and more..
Very important message. Because literally, no matter who you are, in those "households" you literally have to accept stuff you would probably never accept ever. And just by moving physically away, these just don't change, because started to early in your life. Thank you Jay.
Excellent advice Jay, how I wish you were around many years ago when I was a teenager.
One benefit of cutting off contact with my narc family and enabling relatives was that it made it easier to do the same with narcs in my circle. I took on the hardest first, the rest felt easier.
I did it the opposite way and built courage to walk away from the “biggies”.
We are all human and making mistakes is human, we have to determine who we want to associate with and what kind of treatment we will allow others towards us. Abuse is abuse and it is never justified. The way somebody speaks to us is a reflection of who they are and we should not surround ourselves with toxic, unsafe people. Thank you❤
I’ve been living like that for a long time but now I know this is confirmation; thank you 😊
Children don't have rights. Learned that early on.
TY Dr , I have been sticking up for myself when the comments and accusations fly. I’m sure they are dumbfounded when I’m not the old “let it go “ person I used to be. I am worth respect and you will not talk to me like that….
I often feel like you watched a video of my childhood. I really appreciate your explanations and descriptions. The more I heal, the more I realize how messed up everything was, and how broken I was - how much I had to break myself in order to survive living with two narcissistic parents. I don't understand how or why they would prioritize the highs and lows of their own toxic relationship over providing an emotionally, mentally, and physically safe place for their kids.
I feel the same. It was heal…but that was our norm! 😫
Agreed
Your channel is saving my life. I mean it when I say, I’ve never felt more understood by a single person in my whole life. I’ve been out of the household for years but the aftermath has been killing me. This is the hardest thing I’ve ever been through and you are the brightest light for me. Thankyou so much for your content being accessible it is life changing and healing more than I could ever express with words. Thankyou 💛
I am really enjoying your videos. This one is so timely. I have a family member that whenever an 'offence' has occurred, they launch into an abusive tirade that I am expected to, not only stay and listen to, but to acknowledge my 'error' !! Thank you for the clarity ⚘
This story resonates with me - my mother screaming and raging at me daily . The insults , name calling and putdowns so she felt better about herself . The last straw was screaming at me Christmas Day over a gift that wasn't 'worthy' of her . I decided that her intolerable behaviour wasn't coming any further through life with me and went no contact . The best decision I have ever made for myself .
“Not a matter of if but when”
We really all were in the same boat weren’t we.
I want to thank you Mr. Jay for the tone you speak with on your videos. I realized listening to you ,how much easier it is for me to hear you and retain the information. As a child the constant anger and rage coming at me from a narc parent, was hostile and relentless. As an adult I realize this has made me extra sensitive to tone. It is clearly more relaxed for my brain to take in useful information when people are calm. This topic I can completely related to. Thank you for your content it is really helping.
I was thinking the same thing as I was watching this video!
I think this has been the most empowering video so far, Jay. It is most focused on concrete steps toward recovery.
Very helpful video - thank you Jay. I can especially relate to being yelled at simply because my narcissist father thought my tone of voice was disrespectful. There was no disrespect in my tone of voice intended, as I was always afraid of him. So as I adjusted by making sure my tone of voice was the opposite of what he determined was disrespectful, he would accuse me of mocking or insulting him. I had to learn the very fine line of acceptable tone of voice which would not result in outrage from the narcissist.
My Mom went so far as to barde me when I would reach out to people on UA-cam or ANYTHING she would say "You didn't learn how to communicate and your speech is horrible, people aren't going to take you seriously" and I stuck with that... I thought I had to be perfect in order to talk to anyone because I had a rough past that THEY put me through themselves.
I took your comment seriously. And I'm sure others reading it did too. It must have taken a lot of courage to post this comment. Keep going! Allow yourself to be seen. There are people out there who would want to see you and accept you just as you are. 🫂
She was trying to silence you because she doesn't want you to feel empowered by communicating with people outside her control.
Thank you for this video. The comments about that it's is ok to not accept abuse for a mistake. I have often let people abuse me and become a people pleaser by letting people abuse me because I did have to do this as a kid. Trying to improve and I appreciate the videos.
exhale, around minute 9... yes! this is what i have to do to avoid a crushing negative energy blast and interruption of my inner and outer experience... so grateful for you ability to communicate these experiences into concepts and actionable concepts
also, this is what keeps me suspended in avoidant non action and ultimately depressing confusing unfulfilled goals and tasks... disrupted
in fact, since moving home at age 47 yo for a brief time, i notice that i dont even feel at ease going from the upstairs to the kitchen for lunch and other downstairs tasks. its so dysregulating to walk through the intermittent scary zone, i would rather live like im in a dorm for 4 more months
thank goodness as a young person i was confident and outgoing and would just disregard the irrational moody criticism yikes, hugs to my younger self
@@user-uh5tb9er4o TOTALLY 100% RELATE TO THAT UNEASE, THAT WALKING ON EGGSHELLS, THAT FOREBODING FEELING IN "THEIR" PARTS OF THE HOUSE. It is a dark force of unease and paranoia. They created that. They will die with it. Trust me.
…. I’m an oldest daughter and this description is EXTREMELY accurate. Overwhelming honestly.
Great video. I played it twice in a row. You described my relationship with my mother as if you observed us all our life. So, basically, most narcissists follow the same pattern of abuse. This really breaks my heart. Thanks for your work, Jay.
Ugh. This is how I grew up, and decades later I got an OCPD/NPD manager at my long held job and it felt like coming completely unraveled. I thought I had healed by simply getting away from my childhood, but the whole adult experience has been incredibly traumatic. Thankfully I learned about Grey Rocking through this, and his boss was fired, and now we have been moved under a more healthier boss and the OCPD/NPD manager has lost his little kingdom and I am being as professionally aloof as possible with him. He desperately craves his power back, and I am pretending I don't notice. Work makes it difficult of course. You don't want to disobey your manager, but when they have to keep their toxicity behind closed doors you know they know it isn't professional behavior. The best I can hope for is he blows up out in the open while I maintain a gentle, professional serenity.
A great uncommon video of support and knowledge- guidance. Thank you! I will rewatch it a few times.
Thank you, Jay. When I hear something you say that rings true, I stop and let it sink in for a few minutes. Though my father was not verbally abusive except on occasion, he had a lot of pent up anger simmering under the surface. We learned to be vigilant at all times in case it went off. It was always there so it was pretty much 24/7. We three kids left our family without even knowing how isolated and frightened we were. I woke up at 28 married to a verbally abusive husband. I gave him a chance to stop but he would not, so I left him. After that I obtained therapy off and on for awhile. All the therapists I have had have been that safe place and my friendships too. I am 72 now and still learning. I had no idea my father was a Narcissist until I found you and Dr. Les Carter on UA-cam. It seems to be the age of the demise of the Narcissist. It's about time. You are both fine men doing a tremendous public service. Thank you. I am from San Francisco, but I live in Ireland for the moment. I may return soon. It's the best! Thanks again.
The worst, and what worsened my health, is when you go to the person you trust the most to find this said validation and comfort but they tell you you’re overreacting and it’s your fault for attracting and allowing narcissistic behaviours in my direction. This cemented the feeling that there’s something intrinsically wrong with me, a professional therapist told me I’m a narcissist-magnet and that fkin killed me inside. Literally stopped going out of my house after that
You just discribed my childhood with my dad. Raging alcoholic narcissist. He would bait me for a reaction or just make something up to my mom to justify him beating me because he had a bad day. AND he had to break me! I ran away when I was 3 to my godmothers house a couple miles across town. Neither parent even knew I was gone. So because image is everything to them, I embarrassed and disrespected him! My first beating. Walked off a dock at 5. No adult around. This stuff was regular and normal to me growing up with alcoholic, narcissistic parents. Doesn't everyone's baby sister fall asleep every night in their arms scared to death, balling, listening to dad raging in the other room? As horrific as my childhood was? Imo the adults that said nothing and knew are more horrific.
Bro you have no idea. This is like a Trinity for me. I’ve literally matured faster than anybody in my graduation class, she still doesn’t see it so at this point, I’ve decided to cut all ties with my mother, but it feels good because the amount of stress and pain that I felt on my shoulders is gone
Thank you as always for your incredible insight and wisdom on these issues. The videos have helped me so very much.
You're Amazing!!✨ Thanks Jay for all your giving!!!🙏
Before I get into the video, this man’s face is very symmetrical ❤
Big problem for me🛸 I had to go back to a grocery store today to report that some of the items I bought were not in my purchases when I got home. All what was missing had been put in a bag together. The woman at customer service was insinuating that I was lying & trying to pull something on the store. I couldn’t believe my ears. She cut loose with a firehose of insults & insinuatiions. I always wonder why I get this. The mgr came & was very nice & fixed it immediately. I never know what to do or say in this circumstance. I just stood there & took it, as usual. I see others who do not take it & always have something sensible & firm. I feel certain she would never have said those things in front of the mgr. I feel I attract this stuff but I don’t know how.
Because you shine bright and toxic people can sense it and they hate it. Keep shinning bright but also learn how to stand up for yourself.
I'm sorry to hear that you were mistreated this way. That was not okay.
I also freeze up when someone starts insulting me and don't know how to stand up for myself.
Something that has been helping is learning and memorizing assertive communication scripts so i don't have to think of something to say on the spot. For example, here i would say something like 'its okay for you to disagree with me but it's not okay for you to insult me. I'm going to give you some space to calm down and we can resume this conversation once you feel better. ' and then physically get some distance. It's still difficult knowing what to say when since this wasn't modelled for us as children. But over time, we'll get better, more natural and more accurate at it.
Also please be kind to yourself as reparenting is hard work. 🫂
When this occurs on the job with one or two coworkers, who are covert narcissists, I naturally distance myself. But there are times when you still need to get things done and communicate with the two people. I know they are aware of their lashing out, and later say something that is not quite an apology but shows they know they need to keep a good relationship, then a few weeks later, another rude outburst from them. I want to say their behavior is unacceptable.. This doesn’t typically happen in prior jobs, as a professional computer programmer, and I’ve been working at this current company for 4 years now. Don’t know if I’m better off rocking the boat, or better yet stating the problem in a very professional manner or just minimizing contact until I can retire in a couple of years.
This totally describes my childhood
This is happening to me in retirement. Abuse that has that dejavu vibe. Mom is a pro at 80. Thank you for confirming the " harm wrestling" that happens.
Jay,after lot of healing over years,watching "Living in Defiance to Narcissistic Rules". Your videos are much appreciated 👍
Appreciate your content so much, thank you.
Thank you, Jay. As usual with your videos I find much to light my path and considerable comfort from your empathy. I'm working on healing my sense of agency that's been repeatedly shattered by my family's group dynamics where I'm the scapegoat. One of my brothers has donned the mantle of king narcissistic after my father passed. At the age of (almost) 68 I'm rebuilding my capacity to work for a living, with the amazing help of wise, kind therapist. At this point I'm economically dependent on my inheritance, so I can't just walk away from the family and I can't always let my mother and brothers know in a kind, firm way, about the respectful way I feel I need to be spoken to.
The best I can do sometimes is remind myself that I don't deserve to be treated like a silly non-entity or worse. This small step always feels wonderful and freeing.
I wonder about other older people, who might have considerable healing still to do, and who are still economically dependent on their narcissistic parent or family. Older peoples' economic dependence on family is so stigmatized in our world! If you think there's enough interest, Jay, I'd really appreciate it if you'd please consider doing a video on the topic of healing from the shame of the economic impact (for some abuse survivors) of narcissistic abuse.
Oh no one has a clue how those people treated us.... Thanks for your videos ❤❤❤ it helps so much
To be honest thanks to narcissistic education I don't know what is normal and what is not. I saw adults beating and shouting at their children or other children because the children had inappropriate behaviors like saying rude jokes or shouting or saying no to them and they called it discipline and not once did they feel remorse because they will say it is the child who disrespected them. I know we need to discipline children since spoiling children will make them become narcissistic but the reverse was true when it is the narcissist that have inappropriate behaviors, when we call them out on it they fly into a rage... So in simple term, the narcissist believes they have the right to punish the appropriate behaviors of others but the same rule doesn't apply to them. I got angry once because one of my professor always cancel classes at the last minute and blame it on him, I didn't insult him but I expressed my dissatisfaction, this didn't stop him from calling me names and publicly insulting me. My father humiliated me the day of my defense presentation because I didn't wanted to talk to him "He punished" me for disobeying him, but when it is him who did something disrespectful like calling his mistress the day of my defense and refusing to pay my education I was told that I should have compassion for him no matter what he do... (Honor thy father they mother) Thanks to narcissistic double standards I don't know what is acceptable and what is not, what is normal and what is not, what is respectful and what is not... Narcissist become violent at any act of disrespect from others but when it is they who have inappropriate behaviors they will attack any persons who blame them for it... I feel completely lost
Jay would explain this better, but I think it's a gut feeling. It's hard to read your own feelings when you've always been knotted up in anguish from abuse but when you can step back and find your own inner peace, which you may never have known, then you can feel the warnings and eventually trust your own instincts. No contact and lots of self care.
One thing my mother would do that I remember very clearly somewhere around puberty I would go to picnics or Gatherings or family gatherings with my parents. I didn't think I did anything wrong I think I had a good time but when we got home my mother would pull me aside and say everybody was talking about you they wanted to know what was wrong with you and why you are so mean. Nobody in those situations gave me that indication and the family friends that I had their I think would have talked to me. To this day I don't understand why she did that. When I was a baby I remember her being loving but as I got older and into puberty suddenly my mother became very abusive. I've kind of assessed that the reason this happened was when I was little and cute I Drew attention to her I was a cute little blond with blue eyes but when I started reaching puberty I had zits and I was awkward and I wasn't so cute and I was also a little mouthy because I did no ways agree with what she had to say this is when she slapped me in the face more often this is when she would downgrade me more often or I was constantly giving her back talk which to this day I still don't understand and to top it all off my stepfather would back her up and he would tell me the same thing when you're 18 you're out of here
I see you've met my mother.
***A TRUE FORCE OF GOOD , JAY REID, A TRUE FORCE OF TRUTH. WE ARE ALL SHARING & RELATING TO YOUR PIN-POINT ACCURACY OF YOUR INSIGHTS. BULL'S EYE. RIGHT ON TARGET. IF WE CAN IMPLEMENT THESE REALIZATIONS AND MAKE ADJUSTMENTS, IT IS LIKE A RE-BIRTH. A NEW LIFE. A RESURRECTION. AN ENLIGHTENMENT. BESIDES THE IDEA OF LIVING WITH GOD FOREVER, THIS HAS TO BE THE HIGHEST ENDEAVOR FOR EVERY SOVEREIGN CREATURE: CLEAN OUT YOUR MIND FROM POISONS, TOXINS, DEMONS, PSYCHOPATHOLOGIES, ETC. AND REACH 100% ENLIGHTENMENT AND PURITY***
If I don’t do things the way my narc mother wants(folding shirt, arrange items, eat certain food with ‘specific’ sauce she show annoyed, give me silent treatment, basically become a child with tantrums. Very controlling and toxic
The way I want to be spoken to is not something my estranged narcissist husband has the desire to incorporate on a consistent basis. It is not who/what he is internally. Sure, he can and will when he wants something from me or wants me to help him but his true self is "joking" with a contentious undertone that he thinks is smart and funny. Then, when I tell him to leave he says "oh come on you know I'm only kidding". This will NEVER stop. I have made it very clear that I will NEVER change and suddenly like or accept his "kidding, joking" manner any more than he can stop doing it. He only has 2 people he considers close friends but even they only call every few months and it is him who mostly calls them if they answer their phone. He even calls my beloved pet condescending names who has never shown or done any harm to him. When I buy snacks for my pet this narc is jealous if I don't give one to his pet too but his growls at mine and acts like a bully, gets into my pet's bed (even though it has its own) and has bit both me and my pet. Instead of correcting it's belligerent actions he justifies them. There is more, sooooo much more, but my point is with people like him it is best to accept that they will not change their behavior for the better anymore than I will change mine towards theirs. They are sick sick people in the head. He has said to me so many times "I wish you weren't like THAT" naturally I turned and repeated them back to him. Then he went on a monologue of how smart and funny his "jokes" are and I can't understand "man-humor". I won't give my retort because the truth hurts and is self-evident in his lack of friends and family who don't want to be around him and his mouth for long. So, I did enjoy listening to your video but I have also learned that some narcs will enter death being what they are and I am not wasting any of my precious little time I have here TRYING to contend with or correct them, educate them... No thanks, not interested. Find someone who cares, is MY attitude. I have enough on my plate just dealing with myself and growing into the person I want to be.
I wasn't allowed to say "What?" from another room. We lived in a tiny, 1 bedroom house where I shared a room with her. I use the word "shared" very loosely; I had a bed in it, but could have nothing of mine, posters, pictures, nothing, in it! I had to go to her to find out what she wanted, like Cinderella to her step-mother. I wasn't allowed to finish what I was doing, mom was the important one, the one who demanded adulation and obedience, and freaking consideration!!! I had to go to her and ask politely what she wanted/needed; she did it just when she only wanted to talk to me, couldn't just wait until she was in my vicinity! Just remembered this; more coming up every day; amazed I had to live like this for 10 years in same room.
Really needed to hear this from a man. Thank you
What a coincidence. I did exactly that for the first time today, just before your video came out. 😂 I requested sb to speak in a normal tone of voice and to reply from an adult position, rather than in a reproachfull tone of voice.
So good to know that I'm on the right pathway! 🙃🙂
Thank you so much for your wonderful explanatory and reassuring videos, Jay! They are not only informative and providing valuable background knowledge but very helpful in guiding the right way to healing and developing new skills AND putting them into action. 😎👍👍👍
Good for you!😊
12:30 I had to rewind this a few times to let it sink in
You have helped me so much , scapegoat here , 4 years no Contact with covert narc ( community pillar Dog Groomer) only associated with high class community members .Doctors, Lawyers, My mother treated people she worked for better than me and spent more time Dog Sitting for high class names. A Big Fake Facaded Persona. and I worked for her for her for 8 years, 2 back surgeries later, all in just to try and get her APPROVAL, the book that got me out of this ...... was Les carter , when pleasing you is killing me.
My mother died a few months ago because I told her at the outset of 2023 that I was not to be talked at like that. She died of starvation from lack of narcissistic supply. I did everything I could for her, except restore that supply. . . . I am currently cleaning out friendships, extra points for those who are deathly ill. Yeah, I'm that cruel. I don't care. I was raised to be that helpful person, but no more. I help those who are worthy of my help.
Yes, they're literally vampires who feed off other people's life energy. I believe that's why many of them live to really old ages while those closest to them get sick and die early. But once they run out of supply, they starve to death themselves.
Thank you for sharing this ❤
My unpardonable act was apparently trying to defend myself and so that justified the bullying as well as their bullying and abuse after. Blaming people for being a victim, reacting - even if that reaction is simply distress or crying, confusion because of gaslighting (I've learnt that distress is either mistaken for or seen as just as bad as anger and therefore seen as abusive - and then their abuse/reaction afterwards
I told mine that they would call me a fool if a partner spoke to me like they do, and I will not be spoken to like that by anyone ever again
It's as if he's talking about my very own mother.. Her toxicity is just so unbearable.. She's so unpleasant to live with
Im so grateful i found your chanel.. this chanel is like a completing a piece of my healing journey
So Good to hear this. it confirms everything we spends years trying make sense of in our minds ..
He just described my mom! 😢
The disrespect you see in other's faces is a sign of how much abuse they are willing to initiate against you.
I love the approach you take on all of this. Thanks so much for your work
It’s simply uncanny how, like a perfect fitting puzzle piece, Jay’s videos address the topics most essential to my healing. Thank you so much Jay.
This is my father, and he had become way worse when he remarried after divorce with another narcissist woman ... She also behaved like that, once i asked her to not vacum at 7am at saturday and she blow up with screaming and raging, then father raged at me for leaving a plate in a sink so much i was affraid he will hit me (i am 28), then he told "from some time we noticing you trying to play games with us and we dont like it, better look for an apartament until end of a year) .... Just like that, throwing me out just for asking them not to vacum at 7am -.-. And at the same time step mother and father are "loving and caring" parents to the step mother children, like total oposite how they acting towards me, as probably i am reminding them of past relationship ...
I find that if you expect equal respect and won't tolerate heir disrespect you are hated and seen as arrogant. They are the ones criticising you for thinking you and everyone deserve equal respect and yet they call you entitled and arrogant...
wow i relate a lot to terrence. recovering that playfulness is very taxing
Could you do a live Session please.
Thank you Jay I appreciate it Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!!!
These videos are helpful and there are a lot of videos out there now about narcissism, but I think these explanations are some of the clearest explanations, and for some reason I need to hear these things more than once because I suppose adult children of narcissists become habituated into a type of behavior pattern and belief.
I’m only 9 minutes in so far but I have to say I love the way you clearly explain things and use great examples. This has been a cathartic experience and I’m not even done!
Thank you
My ex wife was like this regardless of what I did there was always a problem or issue.
Wow thank you
Hear Hear Jay Reid. Excellent content.
I am a capable and functional individual. I build teams from the inside. And some horrible manipulators thought it would be funny to destroy my life. Steal my work. It is unbelievable how great of lengths this group has gone to cause me harm and suffering.
My mother was the same, also my ex's mother. The difference being I didn't like that kind of behaviour and would step away from it when I was a kid/teenager, while my ex would fight his mother and dominate/abuse her. It resulted in him being super defensive and attacking to me whenever I would talk to him about anything that is or could be perceived as him doing anything 'wrong' - he would start to attack and blameshift/gashlight to make me seem like a bad person - projecting his whole relationship with his mother.
Is he a narcissist?
I find that whenever I visit stores and public places people act really disrespectful and really inappropriate in ways that dismantle my mental health in 5 seconds and to the point of me wanting to run and hide in my bed because they have such a disgusting Behavior.
As for family they just invade into my privacy.
They are cruel.
I always feel like I have to be your act a certain way to be accepted to the point of me burning out and just not even trying anymore because people are way too overrated n narcissistic
Scarily accurate
Me recovering with doing fasting almost a month a while ago after having these thing at work.
Dunno will do fasting again or not
Chronic Lyme
The problem that I keep seeing on YT is there just isn't very many videos on abusive fathers.
BTW I believe that this is way more prevalent than it looks and I keep seeing mostly the opposite (abusive mother videos). Is this because of the fact that we're a mostly patriarchal society and males are put on a pedestal as leaders even when many of them have no business being so? I'm a 3rd generation Mexican American man who probably has APD (avoidant personality disorder) and is currently planning to get a help from a mental health professional for this.. My own list of abusive fathers movie list. Jack Torrance (The Shining.......Jack Nicholson), King Edward "Longshanks" (Braveheart.......Patrick McGoohan), Glen Whitehouse (Affliction........James Coburn), Peter Helfgott (Shine.......Armin Mueller Stahl), Pablo Santillan........(Spare Parts........Esai Morales).
Can you make a video on how to move on