It is a real shame to hear so much anti-calvinist sentiment on your channel. It borders on an almost ' hate 'understanding for anything Calvinist. I do not see any love for any christian Calvinists here. Maybe you believe that Calvinists are NOT Christians. This is what I observe.
"anti-calvinist sentiment"... when I specifically and repeatedly state my criticism is of the beliefs and not the individuals, often noting how even its leaders are victims and deceived... REPEATEDLY stating we don't make this a litmus test for determining who is saved... that you take as bordering on hating Calvinists and seeing them as non-Christians? Really? Please be honest with me... have you watched much of my content from beginning to end, or are you simply assuming based on incomplete information?
I think a lot about Derek Webb. After losing his faith he wrote a song with the lyrics "either you aren't real or I'm just not chosen". In the interviews he's done it's obvious that he could no longer stomach the God presented by Calvinism. He left Christ, but never left Calvinism. If Calvinism is true it's entirely inconsequential and he's right to say he's just not chosen. If it's false it may have cost him his very life. If Warren's wrong to be anti-Calvinist, then he's just rearranging chairs on the Titanic. If he's right it's almost as important as the gospel itself to those who could lose their faith in the face of a false representation of God.
@@IdolKiller yes, I will be honest with you. The vids I have watched, I have watched from beginning to end. Therefore they are not based upon assumptions, as you obviously have come to believe. That being the case, whatever I say, will not deter you from believing differently. All of us are slaves to our unbeliefs. I am a little intrigued to know of your own personal theological position. This may shine a light on why you believe what you believe. Care to enlighten me?
This was my experience! When we attended a Calvinist church, I felt oppressed, depressed, and helpless. I was in a zombie state, thinking, "Why pray, why evangelize, why even get up in the morning, if God is going to do what He pleases and has already decided everything? I'll just get in His way." It is a terrible feeling that made me want to rebel, just to feel alive.
That is the method of the Devil and why his followers defend Calvinism so fiercely. Calvinism is the most destructive of the Cults as it cripples and gives it's members a false sense that they are really saved, doing gods will by doing nothing. Truth in Love
Oh my goodness, YES. I was so confused/depressed/wasn't really praying, because it was pointless...I thought God hated me and didn't care and I felt that rebellion, too. I hate to say it, but it's like Calvinists turn God into the author of evil/the devil. I'm still deprogramming. I experienced/witnessed lots of cruelty growing up, and so that makes me sensitive and fragile in some ways, so this view of God almost broke me. I'm the type of person who takes every idea to its logical end, and so seeing the logical end of Calvinism...it's just despair. I had to put away John Piper, MacArthur, etc and just read Gods word plainly. Praise God for his Word.
This was my experience. I had already accepted Calvinism as a child since my parents taught it to me but I didn't really think about it too much. When my husband and I started attending a Presbyterian church, it was talked about frequently so I was forced to really think about it and its implications. I almost left the faith at that time and had a long tearful phone conversation with our pastor. Whatever he said satisfied me enough and I had no where else to go as far as religion so I stayed in the faith and just held multiple self- and biblical-contradictions at once. But I felt such a lack of love from God and lack of justice and I struggled to love God like I had before. After leaving Calvinism 11 years later, I feel such incredible joy, hope, and love both from God and for God. And now the Bible makes so much sense instead of being contradictory! I am so thankful to know Calvinism is false and God really is good, just, and loving.
This proves that those who are truly looking for God will find Him. You can grow up as a Muslim, Hindu, Jehovah Witness, Mormon, Catholic Calvinist, Atheist, or Baal Cult, but if you seek God with all your heart you will find Him. Sounds like scripture doesn't it. That is God's promise to every Human being who will ever live. Acts 17: 26 From one man he made all the nations, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he marked out their appointed times in history and the boundaries of their lands. 27 God did this so that they would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from any one of us. 28 ‘For in him we live and move and have our being.’ As some of your own poets have said, ‘We are his offspring.’ Truth In Love
I was introduced to Calvinism in 2020. I rejected based of the L of their system but was open to being wrong about the other points and joined a reformed church. Joy was disappearing fast for me. I studied Calvinism while I was there and left two years later. My joy came back.
You might be overestimating the quality of "joy." I'm sure you'll agree that one can have joy (being a millionaire atheist) and yet be lost and not have Christ. And one can have outright depression and still be a saved Christian. We should have joy as Christians but we also are not joyful robots. And we must also distinguish between taking joy in the world and in material things, and taking inner joy in Christ. Before I became a born again Christian, I took great joy in the world, because I was enchanted with materialism and what the world had to offer. Until I realized it was evil and only peddled lies. So I lost much of my joy with the "world." But I have inner peace (and joy) in having Christ.
This is the exact testimony of atheists. They love to say how miserable and depressed their life was when they were believers and then finally decided to move on in their life and leave faith and the joy and freedom was immense.
@@nikokapanen82 What I said is the same kind of testimony as atheists? How so? Is it the part where I said that I have more joy in Christ than I have in the material world? Is that part like atheists? I never said I was miserable as a Christian--far from it. I have joy now (more akin to inner peace), but it's just a very different kind of joy that I had as an unbeliever. The kind of joy I experienced as an unbeliever was a more shallow, egocentric kind. Christ Himself tells us not to become too enchanted with the world and its all materialism.
Brilliant. What more to say? Calvinism is unlivable. The minute you act as though you have decision-making power, you flout the systematic. Praying for the scales to fall off the eyes of all involved.
But all your decisions are founded on your nature. If your nature is very humble, you will make very different decisions in your life in comparison to a person whose heart is full of pride and egoism. Yet then who decides what nature a person will get?
@@nikokapanen82 philosophical conjecture and nothing more. All humans are capable of both pride and humility, and the fruit of your actions stem from the root of what you nurture in your heart and mind. Humans aren't given a more prideful nature or a more humble nature. We choose how evil we will be and in which ways.
@@TheOverlapLifewithTimBarber So, let's be clear here. Are you really saying that all are born the same but then spontaneously chooses to be either utterly evil or very nice and humble? You see, many of us has lived long enough and met enough of people to fully agree with what this guy is saying in the end of this 1-minute-long clip: ua-cam.com/users/shortsEywpc-KQdEU Now the question is, why are some so nice and decent and others are absolute psychopaths? Just a spontaneous choice? But then why do psychologists have long time ago discovered that 1-3% of the world's population are literally born psychopaths who will grow up lacking any compassion or empathy towards others and could do horrible things to people? Do you know that even in dogs, it is clearly visible how some dogs are extremely aggressive and attack and fight everybody while other dogs are extremely peaceful and friendly and never fight at all. Is this also just a spontaenous choice?
It's easy to underestimate the persuasive power these respected men with immense prestige can have over the average person. Especially when putting forward arguments like "So you think all of Christianity is wrong and you're the only one who knows how to read the bible?" Don't be fooled by this trick.
I am so glad to have found this channel! It does my heart super good to see more anti-Calvinism channels showing up! Solid content and powerful testimony! Blessings to you and all you do!
I'm going through a crisis of faith. I feel that casting pearls before swine is a great weakness of mine. Very few people that I've interacted with are willing to entertain the idea that anything they've learned could be wrong. It seems like walking off into the desert would be more profitable than continuing my current path. Yet God still seems to steer me into meeting more and more ideologically captured individuals. He has been graceful in giving me a handful of people who are actually into exchanging ideas and considering and critiquing them, but they are truly a remnant.
Hey, many have taken years to change an errant view. Take heart in the fact that you were one of those involved in bringing correction. Our rewards come later. Things we say today may not bring a positive difference until we've long forgotten the work we did. Such a joy that will be when God reminds us.
I can't see you, but I hear you in the desert: we have no choice but to press forward toward His voice that seems both far of and very near, and I should think we have no choice but to press on because any alternative than pressing toward the example of Yeshua is worse than seemingly going further into the desert and away from the cities of the institutions.
Hi @travissharon1536 I've been going through a tribulation of my own for several years now. I finally found myself a really good church a couple of years ago and finally started to recoup some of the joy I'd lost. Only to discover that it was a stealth Calvinist church. I didn't understand Calvinism at the time, but I recognized false gospel when I saw it (thank you Holy Spirit!). It devastated me as not only did I find myself lost again (true to cult behavior, the whole church abandoned me, even my longtime friend of 30 years, when I left), but it also left me in a crisis of faith of sorts. At the time, I didn't really know what Calvinism was. I started questioning what I knew. Maybe I was the heretic?! I love the Lord so there were more than a few nights I would cry myself to sleep fearing I was spitting on his holy word. I don't say this lightly, but it traumatized me. What if Calvinism was right? What if I was a doomed reprobate that God didn't actually love? Then one night, as I was weeping in prayer to the Lord asking Him to save me in this crisis, I felt what I can only explain as the Spirit speaking directly to my heart, "If Calvinism were the truth, and I was determining for you to reject it, leaving you dead and blind in your sin, how could you be crying out to me right now?" The Lord draws all (not some) men to Himself, because the Lord loves all (not some) men. I do not know the exact nature of your crisis, so I can only share about me and hope that somewhere in there is the Lord's truth and it may speak to you. A lesson I learned in all this is that in times of crises of faith it may be that more theology is not the answer. The scriptures tell us to come to the Lord like a child. "Truly I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God like a child will not enter it at all.” - Mark 10:15 So many of us (myself included) miss the very simple teachings of Jesus because we want to overcomplicate them. This makes us unable to see the forest through the trees. What's helped me tremendously is boiling down the scriptures to their very core. If we were to try to summarize what the message of the Bible is in one word, what would that be? I say that word would be "love." Others might say "God." I don't think they'd be wrong. "The one who does not love does not know God, for God is love." - 1 John 4:8 Jesus taught a great multitude of things in His time here with us. So many things it makes our heads spin and can divide churches. But what matter is: do we love Jesus? What did Jesus say we are to do if we loved Him? “If you love Me, you will keep My commandments." - John 14:15 Simple enough. What then are the most important commandments to keep? “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?” And He said to him, “ ‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ This is the great and foremost commandment. The second is like it, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets.” - Matthew 22:36-40 But what about all these other things religious men tell us we need to do and/or believe? "If I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing." - 1 Corinthians 13:2 Nothing else matters without love. Nothing else matters without God. Because God is love. Therefore, love is the answer. You were made in love by the glorious creator of all things, who, when you fell, emptied himself to live as a bond-servant among us, humbling Himself in obedience to the point of torture, ridicule, and agonizing death on a cross. Not because you deserved it, but because He loved you so much He was willing to pay the sacrifice so that you could continue to have life. Following Jesus, isn't easy, by no means. Indeed, I'd argue that if you find it easy, you aren't truly following Jesus. But when we truly witness the love He has for us, how can we not cling to such beauty? The only other option is to embrace hell. So hopefully, you made it this far in this unintended sermon. I know I don't have the power to change your life (I need my own life changed), but God does. I encourage you to not worry about the other things for now. Just seek the Lord. Seek to love. This means not expecting anything in return. Jesus died horribly on a cross knowing billions of souls would continue to reject Him. Love is not conditional. Love is doing for others, not for yourself. First, love the Lord. Then love your neighbor. You will need help. First from Lord, then from your brothers/sisters whom the Lord uses. Worry about pearls and pigs later. Peace be upon you and may God bless you my friend. 🙏
35 yrs ago I had a Swiss friend who in a conversation about Reformed Christianity told me that Switzerland was divided between Reformed and Catholic Cantons , he then said, the way you can distinguish one from the other was that towns in Catholic Cantons were painted in bright colors while Reformed towns were plain and drab! I once shared that story in CRC Church in GR MI and several members were shocked and offended by that statement!
Fantastic. Direct. To the point. Before the penny finally dropped that my pastor of 25 years had become systematically more and more calvinistic through the years all my misery and suffering was my fault and it was all because it glorified God. I was without hope, depressed and living a joyless fatalistic life. Once I left and regained my faith and my walk of faith, God restored to me the joy of my salvation. Calvinism offers you a God who doesn't really care about you at all. Prayer isn't about asking God to give me what I actually do need daily as Jesus Himself instructed us to pray, but a practice to get me to praise Him for all the horribleness that He's predestined to occur in my life. ABSOLUTELY NO ONE EVER, EVER, EVER COMES UP WITH CALVINISM SIMPLY BY READING AND STUDYING THE SCRIPTURES. (Note: all caps for emphasis...not yelling). You must go to them and allow them and their teachers to teach it to you. Wow! Really? Secret knowledge? Sounds like a knowledge cult to me. Thank you for your ministry to the body of Christ. I appreciate you very much.
@@malcolmandrews4942I don't buy it. No one comes up with God predestination ALL our actions from the Bible. No where in scripture do you get the idea that God predetermines all the sins that we commit. You don't get from scripture thar regeneration preceeded faith.
@@ronneff5894 🎯 Reading Romans from start to finish while ignoring the chapter/verse markings helps to understand and maintain the proper context of Paul's message. Paul is addressing the the Jew's complaint about God's mercy being extended to the Gentiles through faith vs. works of he Law with which they have been toiling for centuries. Too many Christians come to scripture without realizing they already have an Augustinian view of 'election' and 'predestination', which is unbiblical. When they encounter the words and passages where they occur they impose this latent Calvinist position upon the text by default and don't even know it. They "think" they came to Calvinist beliefs by reading scripture alone, but they were already 'set up' to misunderstand it. These Augustinian view points have been so absorbed into the Lexicon of Protestant Christianity it's not uncommon for confusion to rule the day on these issues and cloud the true and very simple meaning. No one in scripture is 'elected' "To be " saved. And believers are predestined to be adopted into God's family... Unbelievers are not predestined to anything. Jesus now calls all men to himself, (just as he promised), and the choice to believe and receive the free gift of salvation is theirs.
@@malcolmandrews4942It's impossible to come to the conclusion God hates the majority of the world simply by reading your Bible. I can see how Romans 9 could confuse you and you researched it and found Calvinist responses, but there's no way you came to believe Christ only died for a very small majority of people because they were the only ones God loved.
When my adult child became a reformer/calvinist after being saved many years, that was the first thing I noticed about her.. she lost her joy…. It’s like I’ve been in a nightmare the last 2-3 years 💔🙏🏻
Same here. Never thought it could happen since we actually discussed the problems of Calvinism with our kids while they were teenagers. But a couple of them were mesmerized by the teachers who taught it. And still are. I am praying they see the light and trying to learns as much as I possibly can if an opportunity ever arises to talk with them. God bless you!
If your daughter believed the Gospel we read in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, then she is saved but in Galatian error. A believer will lose their peace of mind if they start believing Calvinist doctrine, but they are saved, if they were saved before falling under false doctrine.
@@Adam-gm5tmMany people seem to make the mistake of believing that anything but their "perfect" doctrine is an unforgivable sin. Jesus made it very easy for all of us and it's wonderful!
It's heartbreaking to know that in a world full of pain and grief so many are captive to this ideology that distorts God and the Good News as joyless bad news.
That response from him was so pathetic and condescending that it almost made me ill. Thanks for your expose of this Warren, and we look forward to more.
After being under controlling pastor\elders, then digging down and realizing the evil spirit of Calvin was the culprit of the false teaching, I was free again (even though I always was truly and couldn’t understand some sour puss and mean people in the “church”) to love my Savior who I loved at age 8- then going through a couple years of learning why Calvinism is so evil and wrong (thanks Leighton, Kevin, Idol Killer, etc) it is a joy to interact and love the real discussion and love of those who believe in ALLL of scripture and revel in it and even explore amazing ideas and looking for Christ’s coming and the world we live in! Thanks, Blurry Creatures podcast and the sweet Christians who simply live and believe - the true Gospel of our personal and loving Savior!
So if the evil spirit of Calvin was responsible, then so was the evil spirit of Saint Augustine, and Martin Luther, and John Knox, and Spurgeon and Jonathon Edwards, and so on . . . they must all be evil too, since they all held similar ideas to Calvin. Unless . . . they were right and you aren't seeing it.
@@ShowCat1 Unfortunately, your own reply was far from "stunning." Try this on for size: maybe you simply fell away from the true faith, which means you never were chosen to begin with. I'd be curious what your current "freedom" looks like, after your "Calvinist hell."
I just found this channel today. I spent 3 years in a Pentecostal church, followed by 4 years at a very conservative Southern Baptist church. I think you just told me why I’ve been so miserable the last few years. They act like there is something wrong with me when I tell them to explain reformed theology using only scripture. They act like I’m too stupid to understand the Bible without a phd from Southern.
“Calvinism is stealing my joy.” “No problem, just study Calvinism more.” Sounds kind of like: “My kitchen is on fire!””No problem, just go light the living room on fire.” I also love how he doesn’t recommend the Bible, but “good books” which, of course, would be Calvinistic. 🤡🙄
"What am I missing?" Consistent Calvinism: "Nothing. God is most pleased to rob you of your joy by divine decree, for the good pleasure of His will to glorify Himself. Soli Deo Gloria! L"
The more I study and think about Calvinism, the angrier I get that it has taken such a strong hold in the protestant church. I don't understand how otherwise inteligent people can arrive at such nonsense conclusions and still keep a straight face.
So you don't get angry about the way Arminian/Wesleyian teachings have dominated the Protestant church? You are ok with them but not with Calvin and Luther? By the way, reformed theology doesn't have a strong hold, otherwise it would be the majority "norm." Instead, it is the clear minority.
I’ve been thinking about something. Monergism and synergism are such mechanical terms. But really, why can’t we replace them with ‘non-consensual’ and ‘consensual’? In the Calvinist paradigm, union with Christ is non-consensual. However, in our world, if people sign on the dotted line under duress or trickery it is not considered consensual and this is considered immoral or unethical.
That´s a great point; I think we should make a point of not using their vocabulary since it´s deceptive. There´s another reason; ergo means work, so synergism is a claim that we add works, that we work syn- (together) with God in salvation. But faith is not a work in biblical terminology. So it´s both misleading and unbiblical.
@@leepretorius4869 Have you ever met a Calvinist who would say something like "I lived in the world before and everything was good and fine, I enjoyed my life greatly but then, out of nowhere God appeared to my life and forced me to become a follower of Christ and now my life is horrible" You see, sinful life IS bondage, it is slavery and what God does is come and liberate you from this slavery, He frees you from your sinful nature that hates God and you begin to see the truth as never before. Loving God has nothing to do with some man-made unbiblical non-existent free will choice doctrine. It has everything to do with your inner nature. To hate God, you need to have an elevated attitude towards your own worth, the more you love yourself, the more you hate God (Satan is an example). On the other hand, humility loves God because humility sees the truth as it is, it sees how good and righteous God is and how pleasant and good it is to love and serve Him. Remember King Nebuchadnezzar? He was a proud man, but God decided to discipline him to humble him and remember the result? Here is what he said after being humbled: "Now I, Nebuchadnezzar, praise and exalt and glorify the King of heaven, because everything He does is just, and all His ways are just and those who walk in pride, He is able to humble" "Daniel 4:37 Notice that God does not force him to say these words, no, he is willfully and joyfully praising and exalting God, why? Because God humbled him, he now sees the truth, he sees who God is and how good and righteous it is to love Him, and not yourself. So, you see, this idea that love of God is a completely random spontaneity that happens randomly in some people and does not in others is nonsense. All truly humble people naturally love God and cannot help but love Him, while all truly proud people hate Him and cannot love Him. Note that Nebuchadnezzar also said very profound words: "Those who walk in pride, He is able to humble." Yes, God is able to humble the proud, meaning He can fix them to love Himself, and that's what God has done to some of us. He has already humbled us, and that is the only reason we love Him. We, believers did not choose God, no, God chose us, humbled us, and gave us a new heart and mind that loves Him and wants to serve Him.
I’m so glad I walked away from Calvinism. I used to think it was so neat and concise. I was prideful and naive. Its embarrassing listening to this man and knowing that just a few years ago I would have completely fallen for his psycho babble!😞
It's funny that when you bring up an argument or even cite the logical implications of their system they will respond with "you don't know this or that confession" 😂 They like adhering more to these man made write ups
I used to be a member of a Reformed Baptist church plant for about 7 years. One thing that struck me is how much real Calvinists (there are many Calvinists in name only) seem to labor to explain the "Doctrines of Grace" to people. They treat these supposedly evident "truths" of Scriptures as things that need a whole lot of attention, persuasion, reasoning, arguments, even suppression to be rightly understood. So totally unlike God´s word, which is written for people of all ages and backgrounds to be understood fairly easily just by reading, praying and being preached. When reading through Institutes by Calvin it becomes evident that the author regularly does pretty "sloppy exegesis," reads the Biblical texts more like some ancient Greek philosopher wrote them, and that he got most of his theology from the Roman Catholic Church Father Augustine.
And that's totally not a divisive thing to say. I'm sure Jesus approves completely. The devil totally wouldn't ever want you to think it say something like that! (Note: sarcasm)
@@BoogiewalkerJesus called the Pharisees a generation of vipers. He told us that He didn't come to bring peace, but a sword. That He'd bring about division. Anathema to all heretics.
I've tried for many years to say this a different way, but Calvinism truly is a different gospel. If you have a warped view of God that ascribes to Him and to His character traits that belong to the evil one (egotism, orchestration of evil, deception, malice, injustice, etc); if you have a warped view of His nature, His attributes, His will, His covenants, His redemption, His cross - what is there left? Of course, there are many Christians who genuinely love the Lord but were deceived into believing these blasphemous heresies without proper awareness of their meaning and implications, so I'm not making any claim about individuals trapped under that system. I'm speaking of the teachings themselves - how can anyone dismiss these doctrines as mere differences of interpretation?! And how can anyone turn a blind eye to Calvinism's blatant inconsistencies?! Since they know that any novelties in the faith are most definitely heretical because new truths are always old lies, they try to claim adherence to the early Church Fathers which makes literally no sense to anyone who studied a penny worth of Church History. If you insist on holding onto reformed systematic theology, why don't you at least be consistent and call Ignatius, Polycarp, Justin Martyr, Athanasius, Irenaeus, Cyril, Basil, John Chrysostom, etc, all heretics? None of these men held to PSA. All these men vehemently attacked deterministic philosophies. Even if you just take Augustine; well why don't you take him as a whole then? Augustine was a bishop who, like all these Church Fathers above, taught baptismal regeneration, the real presence of the Eucharist, and countless other dogmas that were universally affirmed by the Early Church which you clearly oppose. This all goes on to show they haven't studied any Church History pre Calvin; they falsely praise the Church Fathers as if they were on the same page with them when in reality they've invented an entirely different Christianity from the Apostolic Deposit of Faith once handed to the saints
Not the weeds. Its the Leaven of the Pharisees. They were deterministic legalists and believed in racially inherent election, just like Augustine, Calvin, and Knox.
One would think that reformed Christianity has it all figured out because of their vast litterature and theology around Calvinism. But I like got Kevin Thompson described it: Technical debt, because of the bad job they did at the start.
They keep spilling barrels of ink and felling forests for paper still trying to explain their doctrine... but it always ends the same way... God is good, he must be.. but we cannot explain how.... and it must not be questioned.
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"the highest most glorious most beautiful vision of God.... can't see it? you missed it bc you aren't doing enough to capture the central privilege of this theology.... you are privileged aren't you??" man, it just sounds like the emperor's tailor trying to convince the skeptics that the emperor really does have on beautiful clothes, ... clothes only the "elect", beloved by God before the beginning of the world can see.
That poor person!!!!! You missed that you became reformed!!! We are listening to this guy on the reformation and puritans on Sunday school and it’s torture. Praying the Calvinism away. I love the “read some great books” advice.. not their favorite Sola Scriptura
Mormonism... so you meant to say gods. There is no true God in Mormonism, only another father, and another father, and another father, and another father, repeat until infinity. Mormons believe matter is uncreated. It's actually a radically materialistic theology. Good thing I'm a Christian who believes in only one God, who created everything, who has never sinned, who has never ascended to Godhood, who has settled the problem of evil FOREVER with His own blood. Mormon gods perpetuate the cycle of sin and redemption forever. The true Jesus died once, for all who believe in the full saving power of His blood.
I watched evangelicalism denigrate after a calvinist preacher introduced calvinism. I was even ate up with the idea that the spirit evangelizes the heart and we can’t do anything. But quiet, the Spirit had me fall in love with Him via His Word and Calvinism started making it all fake. I know when His Word says “Jesus marveled at their faith”. He actually marveled and wasn’t faking it. Calvinism would make God a lier every time He says “if”.
This really underlines the horrific nonsense that I was sensing about Calvinism when I thought it might be true. Leighton Flowers basically saved me from slogging down that path for several years, I think. What utter nonsense it is, and the way Calvinist teachers sweep the ugliness under the rug instead of just telling us what they believe actually offends me a bit right now. I guess they’re indoctrinated though. It’s probably not their fault. 😕
If Calvinism was true no Calvinist parent should hesitate telling their children this accurate portrayal of what Calvinist doctrine is. LITTLE JOHNNY We love you, little Johnny, but we accept the fact that God might not love you, and that He may have plans to send you to hell for your future sins. If you do find yourself one day burning in hell because He hasn’t elected to save you, just remember that we will always love you, even if God hates you. Take comfort knowing that we are not like God. We will be in heaven forever only because we were unconditionally chosen for salvation before we were born. That would be the only reason that we won’t be in hell with you if you find yourself there. It won’t be because of anything we did. So also take comfort in knowing that. It may not seem fair, but who are we to judge God? So again, if you find yourself in hell, remember that we will always love you as we forever worship the God who loved us but who hated you, the God who sent His Son to die for us but not for you. Please, we ask, don’t let it bother you-if you find yourself in hell-that we love the God who hated you and showed you no mercy. We must accept the fact that God is sovereign, and He does what He pleases. I know as Calvinists parents we should be more grateful for our own salvation! It’s like, ‘as long as our eternal destiny is secure, as long as our life is all planned out and taken care of by God, we shouldn’t give a damn about family, friends or anyone else!’ After all, the lost hate God because God first hated them. We as Calvinist parents should hate what god hates, but it is so hard, because we can’t help but love you little Johnny and our families and neighbours! Truth in Love
@@MisGrace4 All Cults promise their in and their children are in, if they obey the cult doctrines. Calvinism is no different than Catholicism, infant baptism and your child is in. Calvinism is a Catholic version with a few differences and John Calvin setting himself up as the first Calvinist Pope. Any Calvinist that stops to think long enough to think and connect the dots, has to say. What about my children? Broad is the way to destruction so my children are probably doomed from birth? Well! Johnny Calvin has you covered with this baseless invention for the faithful. Generations of families in the Reformed 5-Point Calvinist Church are all convinced that they and their families are the elect! Calvinists are taught that Calvinist parents automatically receive Calvinists elect babies!" They call them Covenant children. ( Isn't that convenient?) Once born all they have to do (WORKS) is to get their children water sprinkle baptized ( like the Catholics whom they hate) and they are magically full blown "Elect" and saved! It is a closed shop system, outsiders need not apply! They hate adult baptism. "After all they were baptized ( made elect) as a baby so it is a disgrace to be baptized a second time." Truth in love
What a way to live...in the knowledge of your own filth, that you didn't even have a choice about. Total power trip of those who weedle their way into positions of "authority".
It’s wierd. I was reading St. Augustine’s commentary on the parable of the sower, and he says that if we feel like we are on sandy or rocky soil, we should ask God to transform our hearts into soil more conducive for growing. It’s almost as if St. Augustine didn’t really believe in this fatalistic nonsense that Calvinists talk about all the time.
@@IdolKiller So Augustine backslid, is what youre implying. He became less wise and error prone in his later years. I'm sure that won't happen to you. No doubt you're wiser than Augustine.
@aaronstypes4083 you mean his being influenced by Manichaean, Encratite, Messalian doctrines and neo-Platonism, or when he wrote of his disagreement with the Apostles? Yeah... I'm waaaay wiser than that. 👍
@@IdolKiller But most of those were his earlier period, which you previously said was his wiser period. So I don't follow. You would think that would be his more error prone period. As far as your own wisdom goes, I'll withhold judgment until you've written a book that is better than Augustine's Confessions, despite your high opinion of your own wisdom.
@@aaronstypes4083 I mean even St. Augustine himself said, in his Against the Donatists, says that were he says one thing and the church says another, we should listen to the wider church over him. This is in the context of where the Donatists appeal to writings of St. Cyprian of Carthage where St. Cyprian says that the baptism done by heretics must be rejected in toto while the First Council of Nicea instead stressed that rebaptism of heretics must be done in a case by case basis and not as a uniformity. St. Augustine argued the Donatists were in error precisely because they held up one father in isolation to the thoughts of the universal church.
Well, gee, if monergistic regeneration means that we are given Christ's own perfect communion with God, then it seems to follow that any Christian who does not "feel" like they are in communion with God, is not regenerate. I guess if you're going through the dark night of the soul then you're still lost. Aside from Calvinism, part of the problem is also PSA with its purely transactional view of salvation (it's just an extrinsic declaration) and reformed over-intellectualism as typified by Reeves' "read more books" response.
@@jars7774 It's not just Calvinism. I had no idea how dense Christian doctrine is in general . You have to bring it down to earth - street epistemology, otherwise it flys by people's heads. Appeals to the Holy Spirit can't work as each side will apriora claim victory there as well. A conundrum in that case.
i found to look at the polar opposite. so many i found wont even touch 2Cor7:10KJV. cause it exposes what they hope to have joy in. just as many, this was as worldly as it comes trying to study the Bible. there is alot going on in this verse. ive heard u like doing word studies. "GOOD TIMES" is the downfall of everything.( well it makes others to take thought when they wouldnt otherwise. not an excuse to be such) catching them off guard to even question ones salvation based on how happy they feel. or if its a true church based on how entertaining it is. copeland crowd getting a rise out of trying to outdo blasphemies done previous...worse and worse. well presented Mr.kilr. Praise Jesus! Glory be to God
What are your thoughts on this: (Sorry it is long) The Relationship of the Ekklesia to the Basileia of God By Don Walker In the New Testament, we find two important words that have, over the course of time, evolved into conceptual ideas that are often far afield from their Biblical and historic meaning. These two words are Church and Kingdom. Often, in the modern evangelical mind, both of these words evoke connotations much different than their original Greek meanings. The Greek word for “church” is ekklesia, whereas, the Greek word translated as “kingdom” is basileia. Neither of these words have their roots in a religious context. Both of these words were in common usage, long before the time of Christ and the writing of the New Testament. Both words were political terms in the ancient Greek world. It is important that we understand how these words fit into Greek political theory. The New Testament was not written in a vacuum. Jesus came in “the fullness of time” (Gal.4:4), when a Greek-based political culture had spread across the Mediterranean world and the Near East. The language of that culture serves a “back drop” to understanding the New Testament. In this study it is our intent to examine these words and their relationship to each other. The word ekklesia was used by Jesus to ascribe the status of His followers (Matt. 16:19, 18:17). This word was used to denote those “called-out” (Greek ek-kaleo) of the citizenry of the polis. It was an elected assembly with the purpose of ruling. It was the ekklesia who made fundamental political and judicial decisions. When the disciples heard Jesus use this word for what He was building, they undoubtedly were aware of its implications relating to public authority. Jesus could have used the word “synagogue” (Greek sunagoge), which was a rather nondescript term for “gathering.” It says nothing about the significance of the gathering. In fact, this word has as one possible translation meaning “herd,” as in a herd of cattle; obviously no political implications are attributable to such a gathering. Instead Jesus chose a word rich in political connotations. Basileia was a word meaning “a supreme sovereign’s rule and reign.” It was a term denoting monarchical rule, which is translated into English as “kingdom.” The significance of this word and Jesus’ choice of the word ekklesia becomes quite interesting, in light of Greek political theory. In this regard Aristotle’s usage of these words is very informative. Interestingly, the two terms are essentially, mutually exclusive. Basileia meant exclusion from political decision-making, it was viewed as a form of government undesirable for a free people, who made their own decisions. It was considered a desirable government for slaves, who were unable to make responsible decisions, and must be ruled over. The form of government for a free people, Aristotle termed a politeia. Central to a politeia was an ekklesia. The ekklesia was thus symbolic of the status of a free people, a people set free from the yoke of the basileia. What about Israel under the Old Covenant? What was its form of government? In Ephesians 2:12, Paul states that it was a politeia, a “free government.” That seems in conflict with some views held concerning Israel, but examine the nation’s history. They started out as a confederation of tribes unified by the worship of God, the Ark of the Covenant and the tabernacle. Periodically, judges arose to deal with enemies and internal conflicts. That period came to an end with the establishment of a king, fulfilled in the throne of David. Was this a move away from a politeia? Consider this: Davidic kingship was paired with an increasing focus on a particular city, Jerusalem, which came to embody the prophetic hope of the nation. In addition, we see a further element to this progression: rule over the nations. In Isaiah, we are shown the Davidic king ruling over Jerusalem, the royal city, and exercising dominion over the nations (Isa. 60:1-5, 62:1-12). In Daniel, the image becomes clearer: the citizens of the royal city share in the imperial rule of the king (Dan. 7:27). This is prophetic of the New Testament period, as we see in the comparison made by the New Testament writers concerning the heavenly rule of the saints and their Old Testament counterparts. With only a few exceptions (Abraham, Moses, David, the Prophets), the Old Testament saints were of the status of slaves. They were left out of the counsel of God and were fearful of Him. Note the status Paul attributes to Old Testament Israel in Galatians 4:22-5:1. The book of Hebrews makes the same point (12:18-24). Mount Sinai evoked fear in the hearts of the Israelites; but the New Testament believer, by contrast, is brought to Mount Zion, the heavenly Jerusalem, the ekklesia of the firstborn. All of this is political language, describing the New Testament saint’s relationship to the King. The King’s relationship with the ekklesia is one of trust based upon true reconciliation, an intimate relationship, one in which the subject is not a slave but a citizen, a fellow decision-maker. This is made evident by the words of Jesus at the Last Supper (John 15:13-16). He calls His disciples friends, not slaves. “No longer do I call you slaves, for the slave does not know what the master does.” A slave is the object of decisions by the master, over which the slave has no control. On the other hand, a friend participates in the counsels of the master. Jesus said, “But I have called you friends, for all things I have heard from My Father I have made known to you.” Jesus’ friends are granted the privilege of participation in the heavenly counsels of the Father and the Son, through the Holy Spirit. (I might add that this distinction between friend vs. slave is found in the writings of Aristotle.) In Ephesians 2:6 we are told that as believers, “we are seated in heavenly places in Christ Jesus.” We are invited to sit down in the place where heavenly decisions are made. Through Christ, the Gentile saints are now “fellow polites” (Ephes. 2:19), participants in the life of the politeia of God, along with the Jewish saints. They are citizens of the New Jerusalem, the heavenly city which reigns over the kings of the earth, the seat of royal messianic dominion. Jesus Christ is now King of kings and Lord of lords, the ruler of the kings of the earth (Rev.1:5). His ekklesia reigns with Him: “To Him who loves us, and released us from our sins by His blood, and He has made us to be a kingdom, priests to His God and Father (Rev.1:6). This King does not rule apart from His ekklesia. This is the reconciliation of Aristotle’s basileia and ekklesia. Jesus Christ rules as King (Greek basileus), but shares authority with His ekklesia, in fact rules through it. When the ekklesia assembles it is a gathering of His elected rulers. When the ekklesia worships it is the assembly making way for the King, to come and meet with it, to seek advice and counsel, to deliberate, to hold court. This King first deals with His ministers, the ekklesia, holding court to hear disputes, to admonish, to encourage, to instruct, to forgive. He declares His will and His ekklesia submits, declaring their eternal devotion. Attention is then turned to public affairs, how to deal with the kosmos, the realm over which the ekklesia rules. Upon dismissal, the ekklesia, by His grace, empowered by the King, partners with Him, go out and bring His dominion to the earth. Dare I say that this is much different than the average evangelical view of the “church?” This brief study should make one thing clear: the New Testament’s adoption of the political language of its day, to describe the nature and ministry of the Church, demonstrates that His purpose for the Church is greater than just “preparing people to go to heaven.”
I'd like to ask him where he finds all those words (from the long explanation) in the scripture. They sound lofty and knowledgeable. But, please quote a scripture where it actually articulates the words he's using.
Today, I was thinking of the words of … hang on to your seats … Jesus, … yes, the words of Jesus, who in Matthew 11:25 thanks the Father for having revealed these things to infants (babes) and hidden them from the wise and the intelligent. If that is the case, how come these people have come to complicate the good news of the kingdom of God to such degree?? Because it takes quite a bit to allow oneself to read into the Scriptures what the reformers claim it teaches and then to have to internalize/memorize all of it and make yourself sound like a reasonable, logical human being.
Don't you think that theological "systems" (such as the one built on Augustine's & Calvin's teachings) often complicate "the good news of the Kingdom of God" because they are so complicated themselves? People seem to be drawn in--- I'm just not sure WHY. (Maybe it's the pride of belonging to a group of ---- what? intellectuals?)
One look at the stoic on the stage tells all. They need a real relationship with Jesus rather than the intellectual pursuit that seems to epitomise the reformed mindset.
Excuse me warren I need a little help can you explain psalm 58 it talks about the wicked being estranged from the womb Can you help me understand the entire psalm in a non Augustinian format if not the entire psalm than just the ones that Calvinist would interpret as affirming total depravity
Calvinism is impossible to be anything other than theory. It’s unbelievable that the proponents try to make it work. 1. Calvinism contradicts the scriptures which are perfectly consistent when plainly read. They say they trust the scriptures. “For God so loved the world…” They don’t really believe that God loves the world. 2. It’s impossible for Calvinists to truly live what they believe. Someone they love is not saved. They pray for their salvation. According to Calvinism, maybe they are elected to damnation. And it is useless to share the gospel. They say they believe that God hates sin, but…they say that God also causes all sin to occur for His glory. I think many people are drawn to Calvinism because it’s complicated, and it seems like the theology of smart people. When it’s truly a Catholic theology that contradicts God’s word.
I agree that the Calvinist view is not what we would expect from a loving Creator that desires an uncoerced, eternal, loving relationship with us. So do you hold a Arminian or Provisionist view or something else?
@@IdolKiller Nice to hear. Most people (Christian) don't know the difference. We need more channels like this and Leighton's to bring awareness to the surface. Calvinism is bleeding into the churches and the people are unaware. Thanks
@@aaronstypes4083 I think you are overlooking my point. With today's information technology, it's like a severed artery rather than minor scratch from a thorn.
I will say when I started leaning reformed I experienced the joy and peace in that I didn’t have to earn or work for my salvation; I’m His. Pharaoh, Paul, Mary, Judas-all these people were God’s instruments. We do have free will, we just will never choose God without his grace. That said, let this be a secondary issue and not divide the body of Christ.
My experience was the same as yours. In 43 years I've never met a joyless calvinist. But I do think this particular video is selective editing. But I've head, basically, some of the same points on most anti-calvinist channels.
@TheDangerous123dan so do you believe Reeves lacked discernment in not calling the questioner a liar, or do you believe the questioner really isn't a true Calvinist? *also, I provided the entire clip in the description so you can see I didn't edit him unfairly. Rather, I played the video, commented... resumed the video, commented... repeating.
@@IdolKiller @IdolKiller I'm not sure why Reeves should have called him a liar. Why, do you think he should have? And, I can't say if the questioner was a true calvinist or not since I haven't been given access to his heart. What do you think, do you think he is a true calvinist? Or is it possible he has never been truly converted to begin with? Thanks for the heads up on posting the full video. I'll definitely watch it an give you my thoughts. 💯🙏🏾
@@IdolKiller I watched the clip, 3x, you provided in the description. No, I do not believe Reeves lacked discernment. But he definitely lacked information. Based on the question, we're left with a list of unanswered questions. What is this guy's, I'm assuming it's a man, understanding of calvinism? What is his understanding of the gospel? When and how did he receive Christ(his testimony), if he actually has? How long has he been a Christian, if he actually is? What or who is his source for learning about calvinism? Is his question really sincere? What does his Christian walk look like? Is he currently attending an worshipping at a good Bible believing church? What's his prayer/devotional, Bible reading life look like? Is he currently in fellowship with other Christians. There's a number of possible reasons for someone to lose their joy. But these are just a few questions that came to my mind an as I said before, we don't have access to him or his heart to get more information. I thought Reeves did well considering he was dealing with such a lack of Information about the questioner. The two points of advice he gave, imo, would be good advice regardless of any person's theological bent, who has lost their joy. 1.) Gain a richer/fuller understanding of the gospel/salvation. 2 .) And Increase your knowledge of Jesus Christ to know Him better. The more we know Him the more joy we'll have. An, imo, if we're going to be honest, reformed theology definitely gives a most glorious picture of God so we can more fully enjoy Him.(I'm not saying non-calvinist don't). But that's what we're made for. To glorify Him and enjoy Him forever.
He starts with "regeneration"...a word not found in scripture. It is a misleading term. You can find this mistranslated word in 4 places in the KJV Bible. Later revisions remove this word in 2 places with "born again". The difference is regeneration is an action that God does to impose a forced mental state qualifying you to enter heaven. Born again is a "result" from your choice to direct your faith towards God. We shouldn't even say that we are regenerated "after" being saved. Instead, we are sanctified (not a process), a state of affairs that is immediate upon salvation.
Moreover, Calvinists don't actually believe in REgeneration. It's just a word they weaponize. To be REgenerated is to be returned to a state you previously were in. As Calvinists affirm Total Depravity, they don't actually believe this. Rather they see God giving us an ontological change we never had prior.
Have you ever considered engaging with the Lutheran view of predestination and election? It's different than the Reformed view in that they hold believers are predestined to salvation, but the reprobate freely reject God's grace. So I guess it would essentially be some form of compatabilism. How this is not also a conundrum of the Calvinist variety I'm still trying to figure out. Perhaps it is.
Okay, so going back a checking a few sources, God's grace in the Lutheran view is also resistible. So perhaps there really isn't the same Calvinistic conundrum.
So he recommends reading some good books to restore your joy. I thought that having been given the righteousness of Christ would bring joy to one’s heart. Apparently the other guy on the stage in plush chairs named Steve Lawson was ordained by God to commit adultery to enhance his joy, after all God determines all things doesn’t he, otherwise he couldn’t be sovereign.
In Reformed theology, covenant succession is the idea that the children of believers "are expected to succeed in the faith of their parents, and this is accomplished through the divinely ordained means of covenant nurture." John Calvin, “We ought, therefore, to consider, that just as in the case of Abraham, the father of the faithful, the righteousness of faith preceded circumcision, so today in the children of the faithful, the gift of adoption is prior to baptism.” (Opera Quae Supersunt Omina, Corpus Reformatorum, Volume 35, Page 8.) John Calvin, “It follows, that the children of believers are not baptized, that they may thereby then become the children of God, as if they had been before aliens to the church; but, on the contrary, they are received into the Church by this solemn sign, since they already belonged to the body of Christ by virtue of the promise.” (Institutes of the Christian Religion, 4:15:22. cf. 4:16:24) All Cults promise their in and their children are in, if they obey the cult doctrines. Calvinism is no different than Catholicism, infant baptism and your child is in. Calvinism is a Catholic version with a few differences and John Calvin setting himself up as the first Calvinist Pope. Any Calvinist that stops to think long enough to think and connect the dots, has to say. What about my children? Broad is the way to destruction so my children are probably doomed from birth? Well! Johnny Calvin has you covered with this baseless invention for the faithful. Generations of families in the Reformed 5-Point Calvinist Church are all convinced that they and their families are the elect! Calvinists are taught that Calvinist parents automatically receive Calvinists elect babies. Truth in Love
Amen brother. Westernized Christianity isn’t Christianity at all…Too many people are drawn to the idea of having no responsibility for your actions. They have all bought into the original lie, “you shall not surely die”…
Which is why more and more I'm drawn to Eastern Orthodoxy. The legal system that much of Protestantism touts is in direct contradiction with Scripture especially the following verse in Proverbs 17 which states, “He that justifieth the wicked, and he that condemneth the just, even they both are abomination to the LORD.” If we are to assume penal substitutionary theory of atonement is true, our Heavenly Abba is doing something He Himself considers to be abominable, so....
@@caleschnellSeems we're in a similar spot in the journey of faith. I'm on the fence between Eastern Orthodoxy and Eastern Catholicism while leaning more towards Orthodoxy. This whole rigorous, legalistic Western Christianity; particularly those of the Protestant and especially Reformed kind, really leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
Roman Catholic lite! Lord, if the Calvinists have never believed in your work on the close and belief in your grace through faith, bring them to a saving faith. If they once believed the pure gospel, being them out of this apostate belief.
It's because you have lost your salvation. Jesus said you being evil know how to give good gifts to your children. Human nature is basically evil but not so out of touch that we can't choose God. After so many God denials He leaves us alone. Calvinists believe that we can't come to God accept through Jesus and vice versa which is true. The thing they miss is God wants everyone to be saved and has reached out to them multiple times. Like I said after a while He stops bothering us and actually holds us to our decision. Romans 9
Actually in truth Calvinists believe that we come through unconditional election, being in Christ comes later. It's not salvation by grace through faith in Christ; it's salvation by unconditional election.
As a reformed Christian I appreciate your lead in. It was the first fair representation on a basic understanding from a non-Calvinist I have heard. You serve your audience well not totally straw-manning at least on that point. But of course, I entirely disagree with your application of the tenet as well as your interpretation of Michael's Answer, in light of the overall context.
Calvinism leads to a view of God which is depressing. Think of a god who would predestine you for the bliss of heaven but predestine your children to eternal torment/torture.
I like your work Warren, but this video is far too straw-manning, imho. I’d encourage you to challenge their direct claims, as I’m sure you would, they to you, as I could just as soon hear them saying “see the strawmanning of this free-will worshipper”. God bless you, brother.
FORGET calvin --- he's just a man. Why are you SO obsessed with calvin???? Just read the word of God and you WILL understand the absolute sovereignty of God. You DID NOT choose to be SAVED. If you ARE SAVED -- God CHOSE you in GRACE and mercy
@@IdolKiller lm simply saying that you ARE denying pure scripture whether it agrees with calvin , biden or trump. Forget man --- you are denying scripture
5:35-6:15: whoooooaaaa, buddy! You read a whole lot into what Reeves said that i don't think was there. Yeesh. Your "argumentation" is terrible; you're just attacking a straw man and ad hominem-ing the rest. And your "call to repentance" around the end of minute 9 is arrogant and pharisaical.
Let's not stop with Calvin There's much non-Calvinist teaching in error too. The problem is the seminaries. Once I opened Scripture with absolutely no pre-conceived teachings of men, the first to fall was the future Daniel's 70th week and pre-Trib Rapture, followed by the Trinity, containing two spirits who are distinctly different gods. 2 Corinthians 13:5 KJV Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. *_Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?_* John 14:21 KJV … *_he that loveth me_* shall be loved of my Father, and _I will love him,_ and *_will manifest myself to him._* Who's the true God? The Father and Son only, or Apostle John made a terrible omission of a third person (a second spirit) here: 1 John 5:20 KJV And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, *_that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God,_* and eternal life.
You mention, "containing two spirits who are distinctly different gods." I think that is just a misunderstanding. When God the Father is mentioned, He is described as "spirit" because He is not a "physical" being. But then there is the Holy Spirit, the third relation of the tri-personal God. Check the concordance looking up the word "spirit" and see how many times John points to the Spirit. Sometimes, like in 1 jn 5:20, the focus is on the Father and the Son because of the point being made. See Jn 7:39 for example where the focus IS on the Spirit. I can't speak with any real informed opinion on the end times prophecy. That's a study I've yet to go into any depth. I'm open to whatever God has planned there. But yeah, let's discuss the errors too as you say.
@@TheGuy.. Thanks for responding. I could provide reams of Scripture that Jesus and the Apostles NEVER spoke of a second spirit, or a third person god, these are a few below. (Read 1John 5:20 - John tells us who the true God is, and there is no third person included). A) What was the Glory of the Father that Jesus shared with Him from before the world was (John 17:5)? Jesus was the invisible Word of God residing with God in His one invisible Spirit (John 1:1-2). When the Word incarnated, and humbled Himself to become a man, He received His own human spirit (Luke 23:46), the Father was left the original, immortal, invisible God (an omnipresent Spirit). B) When the man, Jesus, ascended after His resurrection, He received the *_“promise of the Father”_* that He would be returned to share the Father's Spirit being, not a third person's spirit. Jesus called the Father's Glory “THINE OWN SELF” (His own Spirit), not a third person, or another spirit. (John 17:5) And now, O Father, glorify thou me *_with thine own self_* with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. (Acts 2:33) Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and *_having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit,_* he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. C) The *_promise of the Father”_* that was given to Christ (above) Jesus shed upon the Believers at Pentecost (and every time there is a new believer in Christ since). The promise is to have a portion of the Father's selfsame Spirit live inside the Believer, where we become one with the Father and the Son who are one (of the same one Holy Spirit that is the Father's being). (Luke 24:49) And, behold, *_I send the promise of my Father upon you:_* but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with *_power from on high_* (Acts 1:4) And, being assembled together with [them], commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but *_wait for the promise of the Father,_* ... (Acts 2:3) And *_there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire,_* and it sat upon each of them. (Acts 2:4) *_And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit,_* ... (1Cor 12:11) But *_all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally_* as he will. (John 14:23) Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, ... my Father will love him, and *_we will come unto him, and make our abode with him._* D) Apostle Paul said if we don't believe Jesus Christ is the Holy Spirit (not a third person), we are reprobates: (2Cor 13:5) *Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith;_* prove your own selves. *_Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?_* (Rom 8:9) ... Now *_if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his._* E) Jesus spoke constantly “in the third person” referring to Himself as “He” and “Him”. He said He Himself is the Comforter and the Spirit of Truth. He said He will come live in us, by His Spirit (which is the same as His Father's). (John 14:17) … the Spirit of truth; ... *_ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you._* (John 14:18) I will not leave you comfortless: *_I will come to you._* (John 14:20) At that day ye shall know that I [am] in my Father, and ye in me, *_and I in you._* (John 14:21) … *_he that loveth me_* shall be loved of my Father, and *_I_* … *_will manifest myself to him._* F) There is one God and Father, and He is one Holy Spirit. (Deut 4:39) Know therefore this day, and consider [it] in thine heart, that *_the LORD he [is] God in heaven above, and upon the earth beneath: [there is] none else._* (Eph 4:6) *_one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all._* (1Cor 6:17) But *_he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit._* **** (2Cor 3:17) *_Now the Lord is that Spirit:_* … ****
@@SSNBN777 I have 2 questions. 1. Do you recognize God as spirit? I think you'll answer Yes here because John (an apostle) states that clearly in Jn 4:24...God is spirit. This would mean that the Father is spirit and the Son is spirit, right? I would contend that the Spirit is also spirit making all 3 spirit. 2. We see scripture saying "Son of God" and we know that is Jesus and not the Father. So we see from this that God is at least two relations, Father and Son. But then we see Spirit of God in Gen 1:2, 1 Sam 10:10 & 19:20, 2 Chron 24:20, Eze 11:24, Dan 4:18, Matt (an apostle) 3:16, & 12:31 & 28:19, Mk 1:8 & 3:29, Luke 4:1 & 12:12 (here the Spirit is a teacher), Jn (an apostle) 7:39 & 14:26 & 15:26 (and here we see a "personal" pronoun describing "Him"), Acts 1:8 (here, the Spirit Speaks) and many more. Do you not see the distinction in these few passages? But you carpet bombed me with too many points to respond to. I'll address the 1st you listed. In 1 Jn 5:20 it lists the Son as the true God. Here John does not say the Father nor the Spirit is the true God. See the irony? So does that mean that the Father is not the true God??? Of course not. That would be a logical fallacy called an argument from silence and that is what you did when you pointed out that the Spirit is not mentioned here. But in that same letter, in 1 Jn 3:24, we see John addressing the Spirit with the personal pronoun "whom" (actually the original Greek is τού πνεύματος and the ος at the end of πνεύμα makes the Spirit a "Him" and not an "it". So we have a personal entity called the Holy Spirit and we are baptized in the name of all 3. However, all three are spirit though Jesus took on flesh for a period.
I'm not hearing many coherent arguments here, and certainly not hearing any arguments from scripture. Christians can lose their joy if they fall into sin or neglect prayer and bible study and fellowship. It can happen to anyone of any denomination, Reformed or not. All I see here is yet another channel dedicated almost exclusively to "critiquing" or bashing Reformed theology and its followers without really getting into the key doctrines in an exegetical fashion and without engaging anyone of substance from the opposite side. Echo chamber springs to mind. The critique is shallow, assuming that Reformed believers are all fatalistic and that we don't assume responsibility for our own spiritual growth. That's not even close to the truth. As for not knowing scripture, you clearly don't know many Reformed believers if you think we don't study and know the bible. You seem bitter. Perhaps it's you that needs to repent. For misrepresentation.
Oh... did Michael Reeves offer Scripture for me to engage with? You wa t in depth Scriptural arguments against Reformed theology look to my series on OS/TD, PSA, etc
"that I have great sorrow and unceasing anguish in my heart. I could wish that I myself were accursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of my brothers, my kinsman." Was Paul given a "joyless and despondent heart?" Was he choked by the weeds? "You're one of us right?" Cognitive dissonance, indeed. Whole video was rhetorically weak. Plenty of mocking, condescension, and strawmanning meant to distract from the fact there's nothing really substantive being discussed. Built upon the premise that no other theology ever has adherents who aren't full of joy, you dismiss sincere efforts to address the question. I didn't know Calvinists are the only Christians who wrote books.
Also, the Paul example undercuts your immediate diagnosis of the person's lack of joy being their theology. Even Jesus wept, and Paul's and the Apostles' exhortations to be joyful would seem out of place if it came naturally. There was no indication I was saying Paul followed Calvin. I was actually using the scripture against your words, which I quoted. Makes your response about who Paul followed seem flippant. Further, the whole context of that passage is dealing directly with what the questioner asked. Paul literally said he had "unceasing anguish" because his kinsman didn't believe what he knew was true. Was Paul wrong to feel that way?
@@controlclerk was that my argument? Or did it center instead upon the problem that Calvinism is distinct in claiming God gave its adherents a joyless heart after converting?
@IdolKiller You say it's distinct, yet I quoted Paul making similar statements about being sorrowful for the very same reason, i.e. his understanding of God's sovereignty.
When a Calvinist and non-Calvinist goes preaching to the worldly people, what both of them know for an absolute fact will happen? Answer: that almost all people to whom they will preach will not be moved nor changed nor saved by their preaching. The difference is that Calvinists know why, it is because they are not moved by the Holy Spirit and non-Calvinists do not know why, it is a great mystery to them why almost none of the worldly people are moved, changed and saved by their preaching. And the fact is that whether you are a Calvinist or not, both believes that almost all people were doomed to hell before the world was because God knew what He was creating, He knew that almost all people will not believe before the foundations of the world. So, then what is the benefit of non-Calvinistic doctrine? Does it save even one more soul? No. Because God knew the precise number of people who will be saved before the foundations of the world. So, then what it is? What is the benefit? The only benefit I see is a great illusion that all those worldly people to whom you are preaching the Gospel, has at least the potential to be saved even if you know for a fact that they will never use this potential and won't be saved.
Your argument is essentially Calvinism is true because Calvinism is true. However, we are not necessary beings and thus known from all eternity. See my interview with Ryan Mullins on Dynamic Omniscience.
@@IdolKiller My argument was that those reasons why non-Calvinists rejects Calvinism are not solved in their own theologies, not at all. But at least you are an open theist, this means at least you are consistent and do not allow logical contradictions to be part of your theology.
@@nikokapanen82 yeah... I'm fine with appeals to mystery where we lack sufficient information, but hate appeals to mystery to mask an obvious contradiction. I hold my views because I am convinced they're what Scripture teaches. Yet, having been wrong and sincerely convinced in those previous errors, I am all too keenly aware that I likely hold some error even now. Thus I am dedicated to rooting it out.
Here is who and what a John Calvin is. THE FOLLOWING IS CALVIN'S REIN OF TERROR! John Calvin’s Bodycount… The victims are listed, followed by references, (A)…(L), the URLs of which are at the bottom. A. Execution 1. Jacques Gruet (A)”Thus the State issued dogmatic decrees, the force of which had been anticipated earlier, as when Jacques Gruet, a known opponent of Calvin, was arrested, tortured for a month and beheaded on July 26, 1547, for placing a letter in Calvin’s pulpit calling him a hypocrite. Gruet’s book was later found and burned along with his house while his wife was thrown out into the street to watch.” (C)”Calvin cut off the head of Jacques Gruet “for having written impious letters, libertine verses, and for working to overthrow ecclesiastical ordinances.” (D)Quoting Stephan Zweig’s “The Right to Heresy”: “Jacques Gruet was racked and then executed merely for having called Calvin a hypocrite.” (E)”This regime was resisted by a party incorrectly described as ‘Libertines’, which Calvin succeeded in overcoming by force. Among the opponents executed after torture were Jacques Gruet (1547), Raoul Monnet (1549), and, best known, Michael *Servetus (1553).” (F)”Even eminent men were not safe from Calvin’s control. Jacques Gruet was beheaded for blasphemy, treason, and a threat to the ministers.” (J) 2. Giovanni Valentino Gentile (A)and(G)”Another victim of Calvin’s fiery zeal was Gentile of an Italian sect in Geneva, which also numbered among its adherents Alciati and Gribaldo. More or less Unitarian in their views, they were required to sign a confession drawn up by Calvin in 1558. Gentile signed it reluctantly, but in the upshot he was condemned and imprisoned as a perjurer. He escaped only to be twice incarcerated at Berne where, in 1566, he was beheaded.” (H) & (I) Very full accounts of Gentile 3. Michael Servetus Is much needed about him? Is there any debate about his murder? (A) (C)”Seven years before the conference which was now to take place in Calvin’s house on the proposals of the queen-mother, Michel Servet, a Frenchman, travelling through Switzerland, was arrested at Geneva, tried, condemned, and burned alive, on Calvin’s accusation, for having “attacked the mystery of the Trinity,” in a book which was neither written nor published in Geneva.” (E)(J) 4. Raoul Monnet (E) (J)page 223 “This regime was resisted by a party incorrectly described as “Libertines, which Calvin succeeded in overcoming by force.Among the opponents executed after torture were Jacques Gruet (1547), Raoul Monnet (1549), and best known, Michael Servetus (1553). By 1555, however, all resistance had ceased and Calvin was the uncontested master of the city.” 5. Others (A)”Calvin also had twenty women burned at the stake after accusing them of causing a plague that had swept through Geneva in 1545.” (A)”Calvin did not shrink from his self-appointed task. Within five years fifty-eight sentences of death and seventy-six of exile, besides numerous committals of the most eminent citizens to prison, took place in Geneva.” (F)”A heretic who also was an anti-Trinitarian was burned at the stake.” NOTE: Probably Servetus B. Banishment (mere banishment!) 1. Castellio (A)”Gruet’s death was more highly criticized by far than the banishment of Castellio or the penalties inflicted on Bolsec - moderate men opposed to extreme views in discipline and doctrine, who fell under suspicion as reactionary.” (B) (K) Very full account of Castellio 2. Bolsec (A)(B)(F)”Jerome Bolsec, a physician who attacked Calvin’s doctrine of predestination, was banished.” (L) 3. Others (A)”Calvin did not shrink from his self-appointed task. Within five years fifty-eight sentences of death and seventy-six of exile, besides numerous committals of the most eminent citizens to prison, took place in Geneva.” A. www.biblelife.org/calvinism.htm B. www.gospeltruth.net/heres…_chap5.htm C. www.worldwideschool.org/l…hap16.html D. www.dimensional.com/~randl/calvin.htm E. www.gospelcom.net/chi/HER…l047.shtml F. www.churchlink.com.au/chu…alvin.html G. www.newadvent.org/cathen/03195b.htm H. www.ccel.org/s/schaff/hcc…xv.xiv.htm I. online.sksm.edu/ouh/chapter/13_XIII.html J. The Oxford Dictionary of the Christian Church; F.L. Cross and E.A. Livingstone; Oxford University Press; K. www.ccel.org/s/schaff/hcc….xv.ix.htm (different page from H) L. www.ccel.org/s/schaff/hcc…v.viii.htm John Calvin is a man who is held up by many evangelicals as an example of the most perfect systematic theologian that ever lived. And yet it would appear that he did not even meet the basic requirements of a NT overseer/bishop as to godly character! 1 Tim 3:2 An overseer, then, must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, temperate, prudent, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, 3 not addicted to wine or pugnacious, but gentle, peaceable, free from the love of money. The New Testament approach to false teachers is the precise opposite of what Calvin’s modus operandi was: 2 Tim 2:24 The Lord’s bond-servant must not be quarrelsome, but be kind to all, able to teach, patient when wronged, 25 with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth, 26 and they may come to their senses {and escape} from the snare of the devil, having been held captive by him to do his will. As to the relationship of his doctrine to his practice, as he plainly taught that everything that happens is God’s will (I can provide the quotes if you would like), then it necessarily follows that he considered everything he did as God’s will, even having his detractors beheaded, burned at the stake, or banished. I’m saying that one’s theology inevitably works out in one’s practice, and this was all too apparent in the life of John Calvin. If I had someone who disagreed with my theology put to death (had I the political power Calvin had), would I be qualified to teach the Word of God? One’s actions don’t have any bearing on the authenticity of one’s teaching? It seems to me that we should hold ANY theologian to the same moral standard as any other teacher in the body of Christ. TRUTH IN LOVE
It is a real shame to hear so much anti-calvinist sentiment on your channel. It borders on an almost
' hate 'understanding for anything Calvinist.
I do not see any love for any christian Calvinists here.
Maybe you believe that Calvinists are NOT Christians.
This is what I observe.
"anti-calvinist sentiment"... when I specifically and repeatedly state my criticism is of the beliefs and not the individuals, often noting how even its leaders are victims and deceived... REPEATEDLY stating we don't make this a litmus test for determining who is saved... that you take as bordering on hating Calvinists and seeing them as non-Christians? Really?
Please be honest with me... have you watched much of my content from beginning to end, or are you simply assuming based on incomplete information?
On the contrary. If Calvinism is wrong, then it would be loving (not hating) to point out its errors.
I think a lot about Derek Webb. After losing his faith he wrote a song with the lyrics "either you aren't real or I'm just not chosen". In the interviews he's done it's obvious that he could no longer stomach the God presented by Calvinism.
He left Christ, but never left Calvinism.
If Calvinism is true it's entirely inconsequential and he's right to say he's just not chosen. If it's false it may have cost him his very life.
If Warren's wrong to be anti-Calvinist, then he's just rearranging chairs on the Titanic. If he's right it's almost as important as the gospel itself to those who could lose their faith in the face of a false representation of God.
What you observe is mostly a tsunami of bs designed to confuse you. Catch up or grow up or both. You are an amateur this is what I observe.
@@IdolKiller yes, I will be honest with you. The vids I have watched, I have watched from beginning to end. Therefore they are not based upon assumptions, as you obviously have come to believe.
That being the case, whatever I say, will not deter you from believing differently.
All of us are slaves to our unbeliefs.
I am a little intrigued to know of your own personal theological position.
This may shine a light on why you believe what you believe.
Care to enlighten me?
This was my experience! When we attended a Calvinist church, I felt oppressed, depressed, and helpless. I was in a zombie state, thinking, "Why pray, why evangelize, why even get up in the morning, if God is going to do what He pleases and has already decided everything? I'll just get in His way." It is a terrible feeling that made me want to rebel, just to feel alive.
That is the method of the Devil and why his followers defend Calvinism so fiercely.
Calvinism is the most destructive of the Cults as it cripples and gives it's members a false sense that they are really saved, doing gods will by doing nothing.
Truth in Love
Calvinism has real and terrible consequences. It’s not just a matter of difference of unimportant opinions within Christendom.
Oh my goodness, YES. I was so confused/depressed/wasn't really praying, because it was pointless...I thought God hated me and didn't care and I felt that rebellion, too. I hate to say it, but it's like Calvinists turn God into the author of evil/the devil. I'm still deprogramming.
I experienced/witnessed lots of cruelty growing up, and so that makes me sensitive and fragile in some ways, so this view of God almost broke me. I'm the type of person who takes every idea to its logical end, and so seeing the logical end of Calvinism...it's just despair. I had to put away John Piper, MacArthur, etc and just read Gods word plainly. Praise God for his Word.
This was my experience. I had already accepted Calvinism as a child since my parents taught it to me but I didn't really think about it too much. When my husband and I started attending a Presbyterian church, it was talked about frequently so I was forced to really think about it and its implications. I almost left the faith at that time and had a long tearful phone conversation with our pastor. Whatever he said satisfied me enough and I had no where else to go as far as religion so I stayed in the faith and just held multiple self- and biblical-contradictions at once. But I felt such a lack of love from God and lack of justice and I struggled to love God like I had before. After leaving Calvinism 11 years later, I feel such incredible joy, hope, and love both from God and for God. And now the Bible makes so much sense instead of being contradictory! I am so thankful to know Calvinism is false and God really is good, just, and loving.
This proves that those who are truly looking for God will find Him. You can grow up as a Muslim, Hindu, Jehovah Witness, Mormon, Catholic Calvinist, Atheist, or Baal Cult, but if you seek God with all your heart you will find Him.
Sounds like scripture doesn't it. That is God's promise to every Human being who will ever live.
Acts 17: 26 From one man he made all the nations, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he marked out their appointed times in history and the boundaries of their lands. 27 God did this so that they would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from any one of us. 28 ‘For in him we live and move and have our being.’ As some of your own poets have said, ‘We are his offspring.’
Truth In Love
Thanks for the ministry brother! Once I got away from calvinist teaching, my whole relationship with God changed for the better.
I was introduced to Calvinism in 2020. I rejected based of the L of their system but was open to being wrong about the other points and joined a reformed church. Joy was disappearing fast for me. I studied Calvinism while I was there and left two years later. My joy came back.
Thank you brother Warren for exposing Calvinism for what it is.
You might be overestimating the quality of "joy." I'm sure you'll agree that one can have joy (being a millionaire atheist) and yet be lost and not have Christ. And one can have outright depression and still be a saved Christian. We should have joy as Christians but we also are not joyful robots. And we must also distinguish between taking joy in the world and in material things, and taking inner joy in Christ. Before I became a born again Christian, I took great joy in the world, because I was enchanted with materialism and what the world had to offer. Until I realized it was evil and only peddled lies. So I lost much of my joy with the "world." But I have inner peace (and joy) in having Christ.
This is the exact testimony of atheists. They love to say how miserable and depressed their life was when they were believers and then finally decided to move on in their life and leave faith and the joy and freedom was immense.
@@nikokapanen82 What I said is the same kind of testimony as atheists? How so? Is it the part where I said that I have more joy in Christ than I have in the material world? Is that part like atheists? I never said I was miserable as a Christian--far from it. I have joy now (more akin to inner peace), but it's just a very different kind of joy that I had as an unbeliever. The kind of joy I experienced as an unbeliever was a more shallow, egocentric kind. Christ Himself tells us not to become too enchanted with the world and its all materialism.
@@aaronstypes4083 shhhhh
Brilliant. What more to say? Calvinism is unlivable. The minute you act as though you have decision-making power, you flout the systematic. Praying for the scales to fall off the eyes of all involved.
But all your decisions are founded on your nature. If your nature is very humble, you will make very different decisions in your life in comparison to a person whose heart is full of pride and egoism. Yet then who decides what nature a person will get?
@@nikokapanen82 philosophical conjecture and nothing more. All humans are capable of both pride and humility, and the fruit of your actions stem from the root of what you nurture in your heart and mind. Humans aren't given a more prideful nature or a more humble nature. We choose how evil we will be and in which ways.
@@TheOverlapLifewithTimBarber
So, let's be clear here. Are you really saying that all are born the same but then spontaneously chooses to be either utterly evil or very nice and humble?
You see, many of us has lived long enough and met enough of people to fully agree with what this guy is saying in the end of this 1-minute-long clip: ua-cam.com/users/shortsEywpc-KQdEU
Now the question is, why are some so nice and decent and others are absolute psychopaths? Just a spontaneous choice? But then why do psychologists have long time ago discovered that 1-3% of the world's population are literally born psychopaths who will grow up lacking any compassion or empathy towards others and could do horrible things to people?
Do you know that even in dogs, it is clearly visible how some dogs are extremely aggressive and attack and fight everybody while other dogs are extremely peaceful and friendly and never fight at all. Is this also just a spontaenous choice?
It's easy to underestimate the persuasive power these respected men with immense prestige can have over the average person. Especially when putting forward arguments like "So you think all of Christianity is wrong and you're the only one who knows how to read the bible?" Don't be fooled by this trick.
Yes. They stumble about in darkness because God resists the proud.
I am so glad to have found this channel! It does my heart super good to see more anti-Calvinism channels showing up! Solid content and powerful testimony! Blessings to you and all you do!
Thank you!
I'm going through a crisis of faith. I feel that casting pearls before swine is a great weakness of mine.
Very few people that I've interacted with are willing to entertain the idea that anything they've learned could be wrong.
It seems like walking off into the desert would be more profitable than continuing my current path.
Yet God still seems to steer me into meeting more and more ideologically captured individuals.
He has been graceful in giving me a handful of people who are actually into exchanging ideas and considering and critiquing them, but they are truly a remnant.
Press on, tender-hearted and desiring truth and correction.
I feel you bro... hang in there... keep on keepin' on...
Hey, many have taken years to change an errant view. Take heart in the fact that you were one of those involved in bringing correction.
Our rewards come later.
Things we say today may not bring a positive difference until we've long forgotten the work we did.
Such a joy that will be when God reminds us.
I can't see you, but I hear you in the desert: we have no choice but to press forward toward His voice that seems both far of and very near, and I should think we have no choice but to press on because any alternative than pressing toward the example of Yeshua is worse than seemingly going further into the desert and away from the cities of the institutions.
Hi @travissharon1536
I've been going through a tribulation of my own for several years now. I finally found myself a really good church a couple of years ago and finally started to recoup some of the joy I'd lost. Only to discover that it was a stealth Calvinist church. I didn't understand Calvinism at the time, but I recognized false gospel when I saw it (thank you Holy Spirit!). It devastated me as not only did I find myself lost again (true to cult behavior, the whole church abandoned me, even my longtime friend of 30 years, when I left), but it also left me in a crisis of faith of sorts. At the time, I didn't really know what Calvinism was. I started questioning what I knew. Maybe I was the heretic?! I love the Lord so there were more than a few nights I would cry myself to sleep fearing I was spitting on his holy word. I don't say this lightly, but it traumatized me. What if Calvinism was right? What if I was a doomed reprobate that God didn't actually love? Then one night, as I was weeping in prayer to the Lord asking Him to save me in this crisis, I felt what I can only explain as the Spirit speaking directly to my heart, "If Calvinism were the truth, and I was determining for you to reject it, leaving you dead and blind in your sin, how could you be crying out to me right now?"
The Lord draws all (not some) men to Himself, because the Lord loves all (not some) men.
I do not know the exact nature of your crisis, so I can only share about me and hope that somewhere in there is the Lord's truth and it may speak to you. A lesson I learned in all this is that in times of crises of faith it may be that more theology is not the answer. The scriptures tell us to come to the Lord like a child.
"Truly I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God like a child will not enter it at all.”
- Mark 10:15
So many of us (myself included) miss the very simple teachings of Jesus because we want to overcomplicate them. This makes us unable to see the forest through the trees.
What's helped me tremendously is boiling down the scriptures to their very core. If we were to try to summarize what the message of the Bible is in one word, what would that be? I say that word would be "love." Others might say "God." I don't think they'd be wrong.
"The one who does not love does not know God, for God is love."
- 1 John 4:8
Jesus taught a great multitude of things in His time here with us. So many things it makes our heads spin and can divide churches. But what matter is: do we love Jesus? What did Jesus say we are to do if we loved Him?
“If you love Me, you will keep My commandments."
- John 14:15
Simple enough. What then are the most important commandments to keep?
“Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?” And He said to him, “ ‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ This is the great and foremost commandment. The second is like it, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets.”
- Matthew 22:36-40
But what about all these other things religious men tell us we need to do and/or believe?
"If I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing."
- 1 Corinthians 13:2
Nothing else matters without love. Nothing else matters without God. Because God is love. Therefore, love is the answer.
You were made in love by the glorious creator of all things, who, when you fell, emptied himself to live as a bond-servant among us, humbling Himself in obedience to the point of torture, ridicule, and agonizing death on a cross. Not because you deserved it, but because He loved you so much He was willing to pay the sacrifice so that you could continue to have life.
Following Jesus, isn't easy, by no means. Indeed, I'd argue that if you find it easy, you aren't truly following Jesus. But when we truly witness the love He has for us, how can we not cling to such beauty? The only other option is to embrace hell.
So hopefully, you made it this far in this unintended sermon. I know I don't have the power to change your life (I need my own life changed), but God does. I encourage you to not worry about the other things for now. Just seek the Lord. Seek to love. This means not expecting anything in return. Jesus died horribly on a cross knowing billions of souls would continue to reject Him. Love is not conditional. Love is doing for others, not for yourself. First, love the Lord. Then love your neighbor. You will need help. First from Lord, then from your brothers/sisters whom the Lord uses. Worry about pearls and pigs later.
Peace be upon you and may God bless you my friend. 🙏
35 yrs ago I had a Swiss friend who in a conversation about Reformed Christianity told me that Switzerland was divided between Reformed and Catholic Cantons , he then said, the way you can distinguish one from the other was that towns in Catholic Cantons were painted in bright colors while Reformed towns were plain and drab!
I once shared that story in CRC Church in GR MI and several members were shocked and offended by that statement!
One look at the overflowing joy of these guys on the stage tells all. Never seen the boys so happy.
Fantastic. Direct. To the point. Before the penny finally dropped that my pastor of 25 years had become systematically more and more calvinistic through the years all my misery and suffering was my fault and it was all because it glorified God. I was without hope, depressed and living a joyless fatalistic life. Once I left and regained my faith and my walk of faith, God restored to me the joy of my salvation. Calvinism offers you a God who doesn't really care about you at all. Prayer isn't about asking God to give me what I actually do need daily as Jesus Himself instructed us to pray, but a practice to get me to praise Him for all the horribleness that He's predestined to occur in my life. ABSOLUTELY NO ONE EVER, EVER, EVER COMES UP WITH CALVINISM SIMPLY BY READING AND STUDYING THE SCRIPTURES. (Note: all caps for emphasis...not yelling). You must go to them and allow them and their teachers to teach it to you. Wow! Really? Secret knowledge? Sounds like a knowledge cult to me. Thank you for your ministry to the body of Christ. I appreciate you very much.
I did start on the road of “Calvinism” without any outside influences!
@@malcolmandrews4942I don't buy it. No one comes up with God predestination ALL our actions from the Bible. No where in scripture do you get the idea that God predetermines all the sins that we commit. You don't get from scripture thar regeneration preceeded faith.
@@ronneff5894 🎯 Reading Romans from start to finish while ignoring the chapter/verse markings helps to understand and maintain the proper context of Paul's message. Paul is addressing the the Jew's complaint about God's mercy being extended to the Gentiles through faith vs. works of he Law with which they have been toiling for centuries.
Too many Christians come to scripture without realizing they already have an Augustinian view of 'election' and 'predestination', which is unbiblical. When they encounter the words and passages where they occur they impose this latent Calvinist position upon the text by default and don't even know it.
They "think" they came to Calvinist beliefs by reading scripture alone, but they were already 'set up' to misunderstand it. These Augustinian view points have been so absorbed into the Lexicon of Protestant Christianity it's not uncommon for confusion to rule the day on these issues and cloud the true and very simple meaning.
No one in scripture is 'elected' "To be " saved. And believers are predestined to be adopted into God's family... Unbelievers are not predestined to anything. Jesus now calls all men to himself, (just as he promised), and the choice to believe and receive the free gift of salvation is theirs.
@@ronneff5894How do you interpret John 3:3?
@@malcolmandrews4942It's impossible to come to the conclusion God hates the majority of the world simply by reading your Bible. I can see how Romans 9 could confuse you and you researched it and found Calvinist responses, but there's no way you came to believe Christ only died for a very small majority of people because they were the only ones God loved.
When my adult child became a reformer/calvinist after being saved many years, that was the first thing I noticed about her.. she lost her joy…. It’s like I’ve been in a nightmare the last 2-3 years 💔🙏🏻
Same here. Never thought it could happen since we actually discussed the problems of Calvinism with our kids while they were teenagers. But a couple of them were mesmerized by the teachers who taught it. And still are. I am praying they see the light and trying to learns as much as I possibly can if an opportunity ever arises to talk with them. God bless you!
If your daughter believed the Gospel we read in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, then she is saved but in Galatian error.
A believer will lose their peace of mind if they start believing Calvinist doctrine, but they are saved, if they were saved before falling under false doctrine.
@@Adam-gm5tmMany people seem to make the mistake of believing that anything but their "perfect" doctrine is an unforgivable sin. Jesus made it very easy for all of us and it's wonderful!
@@kforsythe thank you, my prayers are going up for you 🩵
@@Adam-gm5tm thank you.. I know she’s saved, she’s just deceived 💔 and our relationship will never be the same unless God intervenes 🙏🏻
It's heartbreaking to know that in a world full of pain and grief so many are captive to this ideology that distorts God and the Good News as joyless bad news.
Such a comforting response for that poor soul who has lost his joy. 😣
Just one of the nicest eviscerations ever. BRUTAL!
That response from him was so pathetic and condescending that it almost made me ill. Thanks for your expose of this Warren, and we look forward to more.
"Is there a hole for me to get sick in"
After being under controlling pastor\elders, then digging down and realizing the evil spirit of Calvin was the culprit of the false teaching, I was free again (even though I always was truly and couldn’t understand some sour puss and mean people in the “church”) to love my Savior who I loved at age 8- then going through a couple years of learning why Calvinism is so evil and wrong (thanks Leighton, Kevin, Idol Killer, etc) it is a joy to interact and love the real discussion and love of those who believe in ALLL of scripture and revel in it and even explore amazing ideas and looking for Christ’s coming and the world we live in! Thanks, Blurry Creatures podcast and the sweet Christians who simply live and believe - the true Gospel of our personal and loving Savior!
So if the evil spirit of Calvin was responsible, then so was the evil spirit of Saint Augustine, and Martin Luther, and John Knox, and Spurgeon and Jonathon Edwards, and so on . . . they must all be evil too, since they all held similar ideas to Calvin. Unless . . . they were right and you aren't seeing it.
Stunning reply.
I have been born again for 51 years. I spent 23 of those years in Calvinist hell. Now I am free again to walk with my Lord Jesus.
@@ShowCat1 Hallelujah! He is ALWAYS victorious!! 🥰
@@ShowCat1 Unfortunately, your own reply was far from "stunning." Try this on for size: maybe you simply fell away from the true faith, which means you never were chosen to begin with. I'd be curious what your current "freedom" looks like, after your "Calvinist hell."
Truth. Jesus. Wins every time . Go girl!! 💕
I just found this channel today. I spent 3 years in a Pentecostal church, followed by 4 years at a very conservative Southern Baptist church. I think you just told me why I’ve been so miserable the last few years. They act like there is something wrong with me when I tell them to explain reformed theology using only scripture. They act like I’m too stupid to understand the Bible without a phd from Southern.
Reformed Theology and Augustinian philosophy are the weeds that will choke the life out of the seed of truth. Be very careful!!
“Calvinism is stealing my joy.” “No problem, just study Calvinism more.” Sounds kind of like: “My kitchen is on fire!””No problem, just go light the living room on fire.” I also love how he doesn’t recommend the Bible, but “good books” which, of course, would be Calvinistic. 🤡🙄
"What am I missing?"
Consistent Calvinism:
"Nothing. God is most pleased to rob you of your joy by divine decree, for the good pleasure of His will to glorify Himself. Soli Deo Gloria! L"
Deformed theology. Our motto? Babies burning in Hell. Our job is done. Complete debasement
The more I study and think about Calvinism, the angrier I get that it has taken such a strong hold in the protestant church. I don't understand how otherwise inteligent people can arrive at such nonsense conclusions and still keep a straight face.
So you don't get angry about the way Arminian/Wesleyian teachings have dominated the Protestant church? You are ok with them but not with Calvin and Luther? By the way, reformed theology doesn't have a strong hold, otherwise it would be the majority "norm." Instead, it is the clear minority.
I love u warren McGrew keep up the good work, using your God given faculty. Amen
I’ve been thinking about something. Monergism and synergism are such mechanical terms. But really, why can’t we replace them with ‘non-consensual’ and ‘consensual’?
In the Calvinist paradigm, union with Christ is non-consensual. However, in our world, if people sign on the dotted line under duress or trickery it is not considered consensual and this is considered immoral or unethical.
That´s a great point; I think we should make a point of not using their vocabulary since it´s deceptive.
There´s another reason; ergo means work, so synergism is a claim that we add works, that we work syn- (together) with God in salvation.
But faith is not a work in biblical terminology. So it´s both misleading and unbiblical.
@@thomasfryxelius5526 do you know that rc sproul literally calls it ‘holy rape’?
@@leepretorius4869
Have you ever met a Calvinist who would say something like "I lived in the world before and everything was good and fine, I enjoyed my life greatly but then, out of nowhere God appeared to my life and forced me to become a follower of Christ and now my life is horrible"
You see, sinful life IS bondage, it is slavery and what God does is come and liberate you from this slavery, He frees you from your sinful nature that hates God and you begin to see the truth as never before.
Loving God has nothing to do with some man-made unbiblical non-existent free will choice doctrine. It has everything to do with your inner nature.
To hate God, you need to have an elevated attitude towards your own worth, the more you love yourself, the more you hate God (Satan is an example).
On the other hand, humility loves God because humility sees the truth as it is, it sees how good and righteous God is and how pleasant and good it is to love and serve Him. Remember King Nebuchadnezzar? He was a proud man, but God decided to discipline him to humble him and remember the result? Here is what he said after being humbled: "Now I, Nebuchadnezzar, praise and exalt and glorify the King of heaven, because everything He does is just, and all His ways are just and those who walk in pride, He is able to humble" "Daniel 4:37
Notice that God does not force him to say these words, no, he is willfully and joyfully praising and exalting God, why?
Because God humbled him, he now sees the truth, he sees who God is and how good and righteous it is to love Him, and not yourself. So, you see, this idea that love of God is a completely random spontaneity that happens randomly in some people and does not in others is nonsense.
All truly humble people naturally love God and cannot help but love Him, while all truly proud people hate Him and cannot love Him. Note that Nebuchadnezzar also said very profound words: "Those who walk in pride, He is able to humble." Yes, God is able to humble the proud, meaning He can fix them to love Himself, and that's what God has done to some of us. He has already humbled us, and that is the only reason we love Him. We, believers did not choose God, no, God chose us, humbled us, and gave us a new heart and mind that loves Him and wants to serve Him.
@@leepretorius4869calls what holy rape?
Thank you for translating. It helps that you are so fluent.
I’m so glad I walked away from Calvinism. I used to think it was so neat and concise. I was prideful and naive. Its embarrassing listening to this man and knowing that just a few years ago I would have completely fallen for his psycho babble!😞
It's funny that when you bring up an argument or even cite the logical implications of their system they will respond with "you don't know this or that confession" 😂 They like adhering more to these man made write ups
Most of them don't even know what historic Calvinism teaches and how they reject it.
I used to be a member of a Reformed Baptist church plant for about 7 years. One thing that struck me is how much real Calvinists (there are many Calvinists in name only) seem to labor to explain the "Doctrines of Grace" to people. They treat these supposedly evident "truths" of Scriptures as things that need a whole lot of attention, persuasion, reasoning, arguments, even suppression to be rightly understood. So totally unlike God´s word, which is written for people of all ages and backgrounds to be understood fairly easily just by reading, praying and being preached. When reading through Institutes by Calvin it becomes evident that the author regularly does pretty "sloppy exegesis," reads the Biblical texts more like some ancient Greek philosopher wrote them, and that he got most of his theology from the Roman Catholic Church Father Augustine.
I hate to say this but I hear Calvinists speak, and see Satan with a forked tongue.
And that's totally not a divisive thing to say. I'm sure Jesus approves completely. The devil totally wouldn't ever want you to think it say something like that!
(Note: sarcasm)
@@BoogiewalkerJesus called the Pharisees a generation of vipers. He told us that He didn't come to bring peace, but a sword. That He'd bring about division. Anathema to all heretics.
Calvinism is indeed a spiritual truth. It is truly a spirit of error.
I've tried for many years to say this a different way, but Calvinism truly is a different gospel. If you have a warped view of God that ascribes to Him and to His character traits that belong to the evil one (egotism, orchestration of evil, deception, malice, injustice, etc); if you have a warped view of His nature, His attributes, His will, His covenants, His redemption, His cross - what is there left? Of course, there are many Christians who genuinely love the Lord but were deceived into believing these blasphemous heresies without proper awareness of their meaning and implications, so I'm not making any claim about individuals trapped under that system. I'm speaking of the teachings themselves - how can anyone dismiss these doctrines as mere differences of interpretation?! And how can anyone turn a blind eye to Calvinism's blatant inconsistencies?! Since they know that any novelties in the faith are most definitely heretical because new truths are always old lies, they try to claim adherence to the early Church Fathers which makes literally no sense to anyone who studied a penny worth of Church History. If you insist on holding onto reformed systematic theology, why don't you at least be consistent and call Ignatius, Polycarp, Justin Martyr, Athanasius, Irenaeus, Cyril, Basil, John Chrysostom, etc, all heretics? None of these men held to PSA. All these men vehemently attacked deterministic philosophies. Even if you just take Augustine; well why don't you take him as a whole then? Augustine was a bishop who, like all these Church Fathers above, taught baptismal regeneration, the real presence of the Eucharist, and countless other dogmas that were universally affirmed by the Early Church which you clearly oppose. This all goes on to show they haven't studied any Church History pre Calvin; they falsely praise the Church Fathers as if they were on the same page with them when in reality they've invented an entirely different Christianity from the Apostolic Deposit of Faith once handed to the saints
Well said and insightful. It is so simple yet they would rather believe the lie.
Truth in Love
Excellent video. Semi-Gnostics indeed.
Michael Reeves has the same tone and inflection of that alien in Star Wars Episode II that says "ThE bAnKiNg ClAn WiLl SiGn YoUr TrEaTy..."
Not the weeds. Its the Leaven of the Pharisees. They were deterministic legalists and believed in racially inherent election, just like Augustine, Calvin, and Knox.
One would think that reformed Christianity has it all figured out because of their vast litterature and theology around Calvinism.
But I like got Kevin Thompson described it:
Technical debt, because of the bad job they did at the start.
They keep spilling barrels of ink and felling forests for paper still trying to explain their doctrine... but it always ends the same way... God is good, he must be.. but we cannot explain how.... and it must not be questioned.
Secret Prosperity Gospel: You are secretly made to know this secret knowledge which can only be gained by buying books from authors that know about these secrets that were revealed to them from eternity past. So buy my book to find the super secret knowledge to unlock your blessings!
"the highest most glorious most beautiful vision of God.... can't see it? you missed it bc you aren't doing enough to capture the central privilege of this theology.... you are privileged aren't you??"
man, it just sounds like the emperor's tailor trying to convince the skeptics that the emperor really does have on beautiful clothes, ... clothes only the "elect", beloved by God before the beginning of the world can see.
Please make an evanescent grace video
That poor person!!!!! You missed that you became reformed!!!
We are listening to this guy on the reformation and puritans on Sunday school and it’s torture.
Praying the Calvinism away.
I love the “read some great books” advice.. not their favorite Sola Scriptura
Even more beautiful than the view of the Bible... like even the god of Mormonism!!!
Mormonism... so you meant to say gods. There is no true God in Mormonism, only another father, and another father, and another father, and another father, repeat until infinity.
Mormons believe matter is uncreated.
It's actually a radically materialistic theology.
Good thing I'm a Christian who believes in only one God, who created everything, who has never sinned, who has never ascended to Godhood, who has settled the problem of evil FOREVER with His own blood.
Mormon gods perpetuate the cycle of sin and redemption forever. The true Jesus died once, for all who believe in the full saving power of His blood.
I watched evangelicalism denigrate after a calvinist preacher introduced calvinism. I was even ate up with the idea that the spirit evangelizes the heart and we can’t do anything. But quiet, the Spirit had me fall in love with Him via His Word and Calvinism started making it all fake. I know when His Word says “Jesus marveled at their faith”. He actually marveled and wasn’t faking it. Calvinism would make God a lier every time He says “if”.
This really underlines the horrific nonsense that I was sensing about Calvinism when I thought it might be true. Leighton Flowers basically saved me from slogging down that path for several years, I think. What utter nonsense it is, and the way Calvinist teachers sweep the ugliness under the rug instead of just telling us what they believe actually offends me a bit right now. I guess they’re indoctrinated though. It’s probably not their fault. 😕
If Calvinism was true no Calvinist parent should hesitate telling their children this accurate portrayal of what Calvinist doctrine is.
LITTLE JOHNNY
We love you, little Johnny, but we accept the fact that God might not love you, and that He may have plans to send you to hell for your future sins. If you do find yourself one day burning in hell because He hasn’t elected to save you, just remember that we will always love you, even if God hates you.
Take comfort knowing that we are not like God.
We will be in heaven forever only because we were unconditionally chosen for salvation before we were born. That would be the only reason that we won’t be in hell with you if you find yourself there. It won’t be because of anything we did.
So also take comfort in knowing that. It may not seem fair, but who are we to judge God?
So again, if you find yourself in hell, remember that we will always love you as we forever worship the God who loved us but who hated you, the God who sent His Son to die for us but not for you.
Please, we ask, don’t let it bother you-if you find yourself in hell-that we love the God who hated you and showed you no mercy. We must accept the fact that God is sovereign, and He does what He pleases.
I know as Calvinists parents we should be more grateful for our own salvation! It’s like, ‘as long as our eternal destiny is secure, as long as our life is all planned out and taken care of by God, we shouldn’t give a damn about family, friends or anyone else!’
After all, the lost hate God because God first hated them. We as Calvinist parents should hate what god hates, but it is so hard, because we can’t help but love you little Johnny and our families and neighbours!
Truth in Love
@@MisGrace4 All Cults promise their in and their children are in, if they obey the cult doctrines.
Calvinism is no different than Catholicism, infant baptism and your child is in. Calvinism is a Catholic version with a few differences and John Calvin setting himself up as the first Calvinist Pope.
Any Calvinist that stops to think long enough to think and connect the dots, has to say. What about my children? Broad is the way to destruction so my children are probably doomed from birth? Well! Johnny Calvin has you covered with this baseless invention for the faithful.
Generations of families in the Reformed 5-Point Calvinist Church are all convinced that they and their families are the elect!
Calvinists are taught that Calvinist parents automatically receive Calvinists elect babies!"
They call them Covenant children. ( Isn't that convenient?)
Once born all they have to do (WORKS) is to get their children water sprinkle baptized ( like the Catholics whom they hate) and they are magically full blown "Elect" and saved! It is a closed shop system, outsiders need not apply!
They hate adult baptism. "After all they were baptized ( made elect) as a baby so it is a disgrace to be baptized a second time."
Truth in love
Sounds like Mr. Reeves may live in Sardis.
Why do Calvinists suggest reading Calvinist books? Don't they believe in Bible Alone?
What a way to live...in the knowledge of your own filth, that you didn't even have a choice about. Total power trip of those who weedle their way into positions of "authority".
It’s wierd. I was reading St. Augustine’s commentary on the parable of the sower, and he says that if we feel like we are on sandy or rocky soil, we should ask God to transform our hearts into soil more conducive for growing. It’s almost as if St. Augustine didn’t really believe in this fatalistic nonsense that Calvinists talk about all the time.
Early Augustine was pretty sound. Sadly, his latter stuff suffered from profound error.
@@IdolKiller So Augustine backslid, is what youre implying. He became less wise and error prone in his later years. I'm sure that won't happen to you. No doubt you're wiser than Augustine.
@aaronstypes4083 you mean his being influenced by Manichaean, Encratite, Messalian doctrines and neo-Platonism, or when he wrote of his disagreement with the Apostles? Yeah... I'm waaaay wiser than that. 👍
@@IdolKiller But most of those were his earlier period, which you previously said was his wiser period. So I don't follow. You would think that would be his more error prone period. As far as your own wisdom goes, I'll withhold judgment until you've written a book that is better than Augustine's Confessions, despite your high opinion of your own wisdom.
@@aaronstypes4083 I mean even St. Augustine himself said, in his Against the Donatists, says that were he says one thing and the church says another, we should listen to the wider church over him. This is in the context of where the Donatists appeal to writings of St. Cyprian of Carthage where St. Cyprian says that the baptism done by heretics must be rejected in toto while the First Council of Nicea instead stressed that rebaptism of heretics must be done in a case by case basis and not as a uniformity. St. Augustine argued the Donatists were in error precisely because they held up one father in isolation to the thoughts of the universal church.
"The Doctrines of Mace," because too much of that stuff can cause blindness. 👈 I chose to be decreed to say this. 😉
Well, gee, if monergistic regeneration means that we are given Christ's own perfect communion with God, then it seems to follow that any Christian who does not "feel" like they are in communion with God, is not regenerate. I guess if you're going through the dark night of the soul then you're still lost.
Aside from Calvinism, part of the problem is also PSA with its purely transactional view of salvation (it's just an extrinsic declaration) and reformed over-intellectualism as typified by Reeves' "read more books" response.
Regenerate?Sounds like the Borg
Ouch, reformed over-intellectualism. You hit the nail on the head.
Resistance is futile , you will be assimilated. Irresistible grace that is .
@@jars7774 It's not just Calvinism. I had no idea how dense Christian doctrine is in general . You have to bring it down to earth - street epistemology, otherwise it flys by people's heads. Appeals to the Holy Spirit can't work as each side will apriora claim victory there as well. A conundrum in that case.
i found to look at the polar opposite. so many i found wont even touch 2Cor7:10KJV. cause it exposes what they hope to have joy in. just as many, this was as worldly as it comes trying to study the Bible. there is alot going on in this verse. ive heard u like doing word studies. "GOOD TIMES" is the downfall of everything.( well it makes others to take thought when they wouldnt otherwise. not an excuse to be such) catching them off guard to even question ones salvation based on how happy they feel. or if its a true church based on how entertaining it is. copeland crowd getting a rise out of trying to outdo blasphemies done previous...worse and worse. well presented Mr.kilr. Praise Jesus! Glory be to God
I see the thumbnail, "and I took that personally."
Correction: "Under my Thumb I like to see em squirm. Under my Thumb, I love to see em BURN". Thanks.
What are your thoughts on this: (Sorry it is long)
The Relationship of the Ekklesia to the Basileia of God
By Don Walker
In the New Testament, we find two important words that have, over the course of time, evolved into conceptual ideas that are often far afield from their Biblical and historic meaning. These two words are Church and Kingdom. Often, in the modern evangelical mind, both of these words evoke connotations much different than their original Greek meanings. The Greek word for “church” is ekklesia, whereas, the Greek word translated as “kingdom” is basileia. Neither of these words have their roots in a religious context. Both of these words were in common usage, long before the time of Christ and the writing of the New Testament. Both words were political terms in the ancient Greek world. It is important that we understand how these words fit into Greek political theory. The New Testament was not written in a vacuum. Jesus came in “the fullness of time” (Gal.4:4), when a Greek-based political culture had spread across the Mediterranean world and the Near East. The language of that culture serves a “back drop” to understanding the New Testament. In this study it is our intent to examine these words and their relationship to each other.
The word ekklesia was used by Jesus to ascribe the status of His followers (Matt. 16:19, 18:17). This word was used to denote those “called-out” (Greek ek-kaleo) of the citizenry of the polis. It was an elected assembly with the purpose of ruling. It was the ekklesia who made fundamental political and judicial decisions. When the disciples heard Jesus use this word for what He was building, they undoubtedly were aware of its implications relating to public authority.
Jesus could have used the word “synagogue” (Greek sunagoge), which was a rather nondescript term for “gathering.” It says nothing about the significance of the gathering. In fact, this word has as one possible translation meaning “herd,” as in a herd of cattle; obviously no political implications are attributable to such a gathering. Instead Jesus chose a word rich in political connotations.
Basileia was a word meaning “a supreme sovereign’s rule and reign.” It was a term denoting monarchical rule, which is translated into English as “kingdom.” The significance of this word and Jesus’ choice of the word ekklesia becomes quite interesting, in light of Greek political theory.
In this regard Aristotle’s usage of these words is very informative. Interestingly, the two terms are essentially, mutually exclusive. Basileia meant exclusion from political decision-making, it was viewed as a form of government undesirable for a free people, who made their own decisions. It was considered a desirable government for slaves, who were unable to make responsible decisions, and must be ruled over. The form of government for a free people, Aristotle termed a politeia. Central to a politeia was an ekklesia. The ekklesia was thus symbolic of the status of a free people, a people set free from the yoke of the basileia.
What about Israel under the Old Covenant? What was its form of government? In Ephesians 2:12, Paul states that it was a politeia, a “free government.” That seems in conflict with some views held concerning Israel, but examine the nation’s history. They started out as a confederation of tribes unified by the worship of God, the Ark of the Covenant and the tabernacle. Periodically, judges arose to deal with enemies and internal conflicts. That period came to an end with the establishment of a king, fulfilled in the throne of David. Was this a move away from a politeia? Consider this: Davidic kingship was paired with an increasing focus on a particular city, Jerusalem, which came to embody the prophetic hope of the nation. In addition, we see a further element to this progression: rule over the nations. In Isaiah, we are shown the Davidic king ruling over Jerusalem, the royal city, and exercising dominion over the nations (Isa. 60:1-5, 62:1-12). In Daniel, the image becomes clearer: the citizens of the royal city share in the imperial rule of the king (Dan. 7:27).
This is prophetic of the New Testament period, as we see in the comparison made by the New Testament writers concerning the heavenly rule of the saints and their Old Testament counterparts. With only a few exceptions (Abraham, Moses, David, the Prophets), the Old Testament saints were of the status of slaves. They were left out of the counsel of God and were fearful of Him. Note the status Paul attributes to Old Testament Israel in Galatians 4:22-5:1. The book of Hebrews makes the same point (12:18-24). Mount Sinai evoked fear in the hearts of the Israelites; but the New Testament believer, by contrast, is brought to Mount Zion, the heavenly Jerusalem, the ekklesia of the firstborn.
All of this is political language, describing the New Testament saint’s relationship to the King. The King’s relationship with the ekklesia is one of trust based upon true reconciliation, an intimate relationship, one in which the subject is not a slave but a citizen, a fellow decision-maker. This is made evident by the words of Jesus at the Last Supper (John 15:13-16). He calls His disciples friends, not slaves. “No longer do I call you slaves, for the slave does not know what the master does.” A slave is the object of decisions by the master, over which the slave has no control. On the other hand, a friend participates in the counsels of the master. Jesus said, “But I have called you friends, for all things I have heard from My Father I have made known to you.” Jesus’ friends are granted the privilege of participation in the heavenly counsels of the Father and the Son, through the Holy Spirit. (I might add that this distinction between friend vs. slave is found in the writings of Aristotle.)
In Ephesians 2:6 we are told that as believers, “we are seated in heavenly places in Christ Jesus.” We are invited to sit down in the place where heavenly decisions are made. Through Christ, the Gentile saints are now “fellow polites” (Ephes. 2:19), participants in the life of the politeia of God, along with the Jewish saints. They are citizens of the New Jerusalem, the heavenly city which reigns over the kings of the earth, the seat of royal messianic dominion.
Jesus Christ is now King of kings and Lord of lords, the ruler of the kings of the earth (Rev.1:5). His ekklesia reigns with Him: “To Him who loves us, and released us from our sins by His blood, and He has made us to be a kingdom, priests to His God and Father (Rev.1:6).
This King does not rule apart from His ekklesia. This is the reconciliation of Aristotle’s basileia and ekklesia. Jesus Christ rules as King (Greek basileus), but shares authority with His ekklesia, in fact rules through it. When the ekklesia assembles it is a gathering of His elected rulers. When the ekklesia worships it is the assembly making way for the King, to come and meet with it, to seek advice and counsel, to deliberate, to hold court.
This King first deals with His ministers, the ekklesia, holding court to hear disputes, to admonish, to encourage, to instruct, to forgive. He declares His will and His ekklesia submits, declaring their eternal devotion. Attention is then turned to public affairs, how to deal with the kosmos, the realm over which the ekklesia rules. Upon dismissal, the ekklesia, by His grace, empowered by the King, partners with Him, go out and bring His dominion to the earth.
Dare I say that this is much different than the average evangelical view of the “church?”
This brief study should make one thing clear: the New Testament’s adoption of the political language of its day, to describe the nature and ministry of the Church, demonstrates that His purpose for the Church is greater than just “preparing people to go to heaven.”
I'd like to ask him where he finds all those words (from the long explanation) in the scripture.
They sound lofty and knowledgeable. But, please quote a scripture where it actually articulates the words he's using.
The panel of 6 suited me made me think of the Jehovah's Witnesses 'governing body'.
Looked like a lot of dead wood piled up
Today, I was thinking of the words of … hang on to your seats … Jesus, … yes, the words of Jesus, who in Matthew 11:25 thanks the Father for having revealed these things to infants (babes) and hidden them from the wise and the intelligent. If that is the case, how come these people have come to complicate the good news of the kingdom of God to such degree?? Because it takes quite a bit to allow oneself to read into the Scriptures what the reformers claim it teaches and then to have to internalize/memorize all of it and make yourself sound like a reasonable, logical human being.
Don't you think that theological "systems" (such as the one built on Augustine's & Calvin's teachings) often complicate "the good news of the Kingdom of God" because they are so complicated themselves? People seem to be drawn in--- I'm just not sure WHY. (Maybe it's the pride of belonging to a group of ---- what? intellectuals?)
One look at the stoic on the stage tells all. They need a real relationship with Jesus rather than the intellectual pursuit that seems to epitomise the reformed mindset.
He pointed the person to the uninspired man written words rather than God’s Word? That’s a problem.
Excuse me warren I need a little help can you explain psalm 58 it talks about the wicked being estranged from the womb Can you help me understand the entire psalm in a non Augustinian format if not the entire psalm than just the ones that Calvinist would interpret as affirming total depravity
I wrote this a couple years back.
www.idolkiller.com/post/understanding-psalm-58
"I will ascend "
Calvinism is impossible to be anything other than theory. It’s unbelievable that the proponents try to make it work. 1. Calvinism contradicts the scriptures which are perfectly consistent when plainly read. They say they trust the scriptures. “For God so loved the world…” They don’t really believe that God loves the world.
2. It’s impossible for Calvinists to truly live what they believe. Someone they love is not saved. They pray for their salvation. According to Calvinism, maybe they are elected to damnation. And it is useless to share the gospel. They say they believe that God hates sin, but…they say that God also causes all sin to occur for His glory.
I think many people are drawn to Calvinism because it’s complicated, and it seems like the theology of smart people. When it’s truly a Catholic theology that contradicts God’s word.
I agree that the Calvinist view is not what we would expect from a loving Creator that desires an uncoerced, eternal, loving relationship with us.
So do you hold a Arminian or Provisionist view or something else?
I'm a big tent Provisionist, with much in common with Anabaptists and Eastern Orthodox
@@IdolKiller Nice to hear. Most people (Christian) don't know the difference.
We need more channels like this and Leighton's to bring awareness to the surface.
Calvinism is bleeding into the churches and the people are unaware.
Thanks
@@TheGuy.. After 500 years and "Calvinism is bleeding into the churches." Wow. Only took 500 years.
@@aaronstypes4083 I think you are overlooking my point. With today's information technology, it's like a severed artery rather than minor scratch from a thorn.
I will say when I started leaning reformed I experienced the joy and peace in that I didn’t have to earn or work for my salvation; I’m His.
Pharaoh, Paul, Mary, Judas-all these people were God’s instruments. We do have free will, we just will never choose God without his grace. That said, let this be a secondary issue and not divide the body of Christ.
I get what you're saying, but I don't believe the Reformed have exclusivity on the view that one cannot merit their salvation.
My experience was the same as yours. In 43 years I've never met a joyless calvinist. But I do think this particular video is selective editing. But I've head, basically, some of the same points on most anti-calvinist channels.
@TheDangerous123dan so do you believe Reeves lacked discernment in not calling the questioner a liar, or do you believe the questioner really isn't a true Calvinist?
*also, I provided the entire clip in the description so you can see I didn't edit him unfairly. Rather, I played the video, commented... resumed the video, commented... repeating.
@@IdolKiller @IdolKiller I'm not sure why Reeves should have called him a liar. Why, do you think he should have? And, I can't say if the questioner was a true calvinist or not since I haven't been given access to his heart. What do you think, do you think he is a true calvinist? Or is it possible he has never been truly converted to begin with?
Thanks for the heads up on posting the full video. I'll definitely watch it an give you my thoughts. 💯🙏🏾
@@IdolKiller I watched the clip, 3x, you provided in the description. No, I do not believe Reeves lacked discernment. But he definitely lacked information. Based on the question, we're left with a list of unanswered questions. What is this guy's, I'm assuming it's a man, understanding of calvinism? What is his understanding of the gospel? When and how did he receive Christ(his testimony), if he actually has? How long has he been a Christian, if he actually is? What or who is his source for learning about calvinism? Is his question really sincere? What does his Christian walk look like? Is he currently attending an worshipping at a good Bible believing church? What's his prayer/devotional, Bible reading life look like? Is he currently in fellowship with other Christians. There's a number of possible reasons for someone to lose their joy. But these are just a few questions that came to my mind an as I said before, we don't have access to him or his heart to get more information. I thought Reeves did well considering he was dealing with such a lack of Information about the questioner. The two points of advice he gave, imo, would be good advice regardless of any person's theological bent, who has lost their joy. 1.) Gain a richer/fuller understanding of the gospel/salvation. 2
.) And Increase your knowledge of Jesus Christ to know Him better. The more we know Him the more joy we'll have. An, imo, if we're going to be honest, reformed theology definitely gives a most glorious picture of God so we can more fully enjoy Him.(I'm not saying non-calvinist don't). But that's what we're made for. To glorify Him and enjoy Him forever.
He starts with "regeneration"...a word not found in scripture. It is a misleading term.
You can find this mistranslated word in 4 places in the KJV Bible.
Later revisions remove this word in 2 places with "born again".
The difference is regeneration is an action that God does to impose a forced mental state qualifying you to enter heaven.
Born again is a "result" from your choice to direct your faith towards God.
We shouldn't even say that we are regenerated "after" being saved. Instead, we are sanctified (not a process), a state of affairs that is immediate upon salvation.
Moreover, Calvinists don't actually believe in REgeneration. It's just a word they weaponize.
To be REgenerated is to be returned to a state you previously were in. As Calvinists affirm Total Depravity, they don't actually believe this. Rather they see God giving us an ontological change we never had prior.
Have you ever considered engaging with the Lutheran view of predestination and election? It's different than the Reformed view in that they hold believers are predestined to salvation, but the reprobate freely reject God's grace. So I guess it would essentially be some form of compatabilism. How this is not also a conundrum of the Calvinist variety I'm still trying to figure out. Perhaps it is.
Okay, so going back a checking a few sources, God's grace in the Lutheran view is also resistible. So perhaps there really isn't the same Calvinistic conundrum.
Whoop . Hey fam.
Please help. Why won’t my Muslim or Hindu neighbors choose to receive Jesus as there savior and become Christian? What can I say or show them?
Show them the love of Christ and a life transformed by knowing Him. You're dealing with deeply held beliefs that do not change over night.
So he recommends reading some good books to restore your joy. I thought that having been given the righteousness of Christ would bring joy to one’s heart. Apparently the other guy on the stage in plush chairs named Steve Lawson was ordained by God to commit adultery to enhance his joy, after all God determines all things doesn’t he, otherwise he couldn’t be sovereign.
'Smiles' in Paul Washer
Sorry another comment.. the way they talk.. the theatrics and contrived caring 🤮 I just can’t it’s so fake and awful
That guy sure does talk about reading ‘other books’ a lot. How about read the Bible? It doesn’t support Calvinism.
Calvinism is a cult but Ligonier Ministries is a cult squared
How come all calvinists tell their children that God loves them?
Not all do.
In Reformed theology, covenant succession is the idea that the children of believers "are expected to succeed in the faith of their parents, and this is accomplished through the divinely ordained means of covenant nurture."
John Calvin, “We ought, therefore, to consider, that just as in the case of Abraham, the father of the faithful, the righteousness of faith preceded circumcision, so today in the children of the faithful, the gift of adoption is prior to baptism.” (Opera Quae Supersunt Omina, Corpus Reformatorum, Volume 35, Page 8.)
John Calvin, “It follows, that the children of believers are not baptized, that they may thereby then become the children of God, as if they had been before aliens to the church; but, on the contrary, they are received into the Church by this solemn sign, since they already belonged to the body of Christ by virtue of the promise.” (Institutes of the Christian Religion, 4:15:22. cf. 4:16:24)
All Cults promise their in and their children are in, if they obey the cult doctrines.
Calvinism is no different than Catholicism, infant baptism and your child is in. Calvinism is a Catholic version with a few differences and John Calvin setting himself up as the first Calvinist Pope.
Any Calvinist that stops to think long enough to think and connect the dots, has to say. What about my children? Broad is the way to destruction so my children are probably doomed from birth? Well! Johnny Calvin has you covered with this baseless invention for the faithful.
Generations of families in the Reformed 5-Point Calvinist Church are all convinced that they and their families are the elect!
Calvinists are taught that Calvinist parents automatically receive Calvinists elect babies.
Truth in Love
Just read your Bible ,,,, ❤️
Amen brother. Westernized Christianity isn’t Christianity at all…Too many people are drawn to the idea of having no responsibility for your actions. They have all bought into the original lie, “you shall not surely die”…
Which is why more and more I'm drawn to Eastern Orthodoxy.
The legal system that much of Protestantism touts is in direct contradiction with Scripture especially the following verse in Proverbs 17 which states,
“He that justifieth the wicked, and he that condemneth the just, even they both are abomination to the LORD.”
If we are to assume penal substitutionary theory of atonement is true, our Heavenly Abba is doing something He Himself considers to be abominable, so....
@@caleschnellSeems we're in a similar spot in the journey of faith. I'm on the fence between Eastern Orthodoxy and Eastern Catholicism while leaning more towards Orthodoxy. This whole rigorous, legalistic Western Christianity; particularly those of the Protestant and especially Reformed kind, really leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
Calvinism baffles me cause I can agree with what they say but not at the same time. 😅
Roman Catholic lite! Lord, if the Calvinists have never believed in your work on the close and belief in your grace through faith, bring them to a saving faith. If they once believed the pure gospel, being them out of this apostate belief.
It's because you have lost your salvation. Jesus said you being evil know how to give good gifts to your children. Human nature is basically evil but not so out of touch that we can't choose God. After so many God denials He leaves us alone. Calvinists believe that we can't come to God accept through Jesus and vice versa which is true. The thing they miss is God wants everyone to be saved and has reached out to them multiple times. Like I said after a while He stops bothering us and actually holds us to our decision. Romans 9
Actually in truth Calvinists believe that we come through unconditional election, being in Christ comes later. It's not salvation by grace through faith in Christ; it's salvation by unconditional election.
As a reformed Christian I appreciate your lead in. It was the first fair representation on a basic understanding from a non-Calvinist I have heard. You serve your audience well not totally straw-manning at least on that point. But of course, I entirely disagree with your application of the tenet as well as your interpretation of Michael's Answer, in light of the overall context.
Read the Bible!
Oh joy. Try not being a carvinist!
Agree, Calvinism is wrong about the Doctrines of grace, there are no scriptures that teach this evil doctrine.
Calvinism leads to a view of God which is depressing. Think of a god who would predestine you for the bliss of heaven but predestine your children to eternal torment/torture.
I like your work Warren, but this video is far too straw-manning, imho. I’d encourage you to challenge their direct claims, as I’m sure you would, they to you, as I could just as soon hear them saying “see the strawmanning of this free-will worshipper”. God bless you, brother.
This was almost entirely a criticism, not intending to levy arguments. But I hear you!
You should try to avoid topics you know nothing about. Go back to explaining how God doesn't if the sun will rise tomorrow.
@@5johnsneed7 Cope harder
Read some good books? Seriously!
FORGET calvin --- he's just a man. Why are you SO obsessed with calvin????
Just read the word of God and you WILL understand the absolute sovereignty of God.
You DID NOT choose to be SAVED. If you ARE SAVED -- God CHOSE you in GRACE and mercy
Why tell me to forget Calvin? Why not tell that to CALVINists?
@@IdolKiller lm simply saying that you ARE denying pure scripture whether it agrees with calvin , biden or trump. Forget man --- you are denying scripture
You are a mocker of God's GLORY and absolute sovereignty. It's HIS GLORY and mercy ONLY saves. HE gives you the gift of faith
I've done no less than God eternally and effectually decreed... if your view were tue. Yet you still object? Who are you, oh man?
@@IdolKiller my EXACT word to you, sir. God WILL DO ALL that he decreed. Read Isaiah 45
@@Over-for-now yet here you are objecting. It's almost like you don't believe the entailments of your own system 🤔
@@IdolKiller l have NO system.
I was SAVED very very young and l rest in HIS FINISHED work -- completed forever
@@Over-for-now no system? Lol. Why the dishonesty? You're here defending the Calvinist system.
The music and the man is so deceptive. Forget calvin --- you ARE observation with a man and leave out God's GLORY
5:35-6:15: whoooooaaaa, buddy! You read a whole lot into what Reeves said that i don't think was there. Yeesh. Your "argumentation" is terrible; you're just attacking a straw man and ad hominem-ing the rest. And your "call to repentance" around the end of minute 9 is arrogant and pharisaical.
I stated I was critiquing an unstated entailment. That's not a strawman. Calling Pharisees to repent is not Pharisetical.
Let's not stop with Calvin
There's much non-Calvinist teaching in error too. The problem is the seminaries. Once I opened Scripture with absolutely no pre-conceived teachings of men, the first to fall was the future Daniel's 70th week and pre-Trib Rapture, followed by the Trinity, containing two spirits who are distinctly different gods.
2 Corinthians 13:5 KJV
Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. *_Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?_*
John 14:21 KJV
… *_he that loveth me_* shall be loved of my Father, and _I will love him,_ and *_will manifest myself to him._*
Who's the true God? The Father and Son only, or Apostle John made a terrible omission of a third person (a second spirit) here:
1 John 5:20 KJV
And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, *_that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God,_* and eternal life.
You mention, "containing two spirits who are distinctly different gods."
I think that is just a misunderstanding. When God the Father is mentioned, He is described as "spirit" because He is not a "physical" being. But then there is the Holy Spirit, the third relation of the tri-personal God. Check the concordance looking up the word "spirit" and see how many times John points to the Spirit. Sometimes, like in 1 jn 5:20, the focus is on the Father and the Son because of the point being made. See Jn 7:39 for example where the focus IS on the Spirit.
I can't speak with any real informed opinion on the end times prophecy. That's a study I've yet to go into any depth. I'm open to whatever God has planned there.
But yeah, let's discuss the errors too as you say.
The refurbished ww church of god , believe in a bianity I call it. No Holy Spirit who I've always thought o f as the od man out
@@TheGuy.. Thanks for responding.
I could provide reams of Scripture that Jesus and the Apostles NEVER spoke of a second spirit, or a third person god, these are a few below. (Read 1John 5:20 - John tells us who the true God is, and there is no third person included).
A) What was the Glory of the Father that Jesus shared with Him from before the world was (John 17:5)? Jesus was the invisible Word of God residing with God in His one invisible Spirit (John 1:1-2). When the Word incarnated, and humbled Himself to become a man, He received His own human spirit (Luke 23:46), the Father was left the original, immortal, invisible God (an omnipresent Spirit).
B) When the man, Jesus, ascended after His resurrection, He received the *_“promise of the Father”_* that He would be returned to share the Father's Spirit being, not a third person's spirit. Jesus called the Father's Glory “THINE OWN SELF” (His own Spirit), not a third person, or another spirit.
(John 17:5) And now, O Father, glorify thou me *_with thine own self_* with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
(Acts 2:33) Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and *_having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit,_* he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
C) The *_promise of the Father”_* that was given to Christ (above) Jesus shed upon the Believers at Pentecost (and every time there is a new believer in Christ since). The promise is to have a portion of the Father's selfsame Spirit live inside the Believer, where we become one with the Father and the Son who are one (of the same one Holy Spirit that is the Father's being).
(Luke 24:49) And, behold, *_I send the promise of my Father upon you:_* but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with *_power from on high_*
(Acts 1:4) And, being assembled together with [them], commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but *_wait for the promise of the Father,_* ...
(Acts 2:3) And *_there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire,_* and it sat upon each of them.
(Acts 2:4) *_And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit,_* ...
(1Cor 12:11) But *_all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally_* as he will.
(John 14:23) Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, ... my Father will love him, and *_we will come unto him, and make our abode with him._*
D) Apostle Paul said if we don't believe Jesus Christ is the Holy Spirit (not a third person), we are reprobates:
(2Cor 13:5) *Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith;_* prove your own selves. *_Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?_*
(Rom 8:9) ... Now *_if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his._*
E) Jesus spoke constantly “in the third person” referring to Himself as “He” and “Him”. He said He Himself is the Comforter and the Spirit of Truth. He said He will come live in us, by His Spirit (which is the same as His Father's).
(John 14:17) … the Spirit of truth; ... *_ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you._*
(John 14:18) I will not leave you comfortless: *_I will come to you._*
(John 14:20) At that day ye shall know that I [am] in my Father, and ye in me, *_and I in you._*
(John 14:21) … *_he that loveth me_* shall be loved of my Father, and *_I_* … *_will manifest myself to him._*
F) There is one God and Father, and He is one Holy Spirit.
(Deut 4:39) Know therefore this day, and consider [it] in thine heart, that *_the LORD he [is] God in heaven above, and upon the earth beneath: [there is] none else._*
(Eph 4:6) *_one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all._*
(1Cor 6:17) But *_he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit._*
**** (2Cor 3:17) *_Now the Lord is that Spirit:_* … ****
@@chriswest8389 Not sure I understand your comment.
@@SSNBN777 I have 2 questions.
1. Do you recognize God as spirit? I think you'll answer Yes here because John (an apostle) states that clearly in Jn 4:24...God is spirit. This would mean that the Father is spirit and the Son is spirit, right? I would contend that the Spirit is also spirit making all 3 spirit.
2. We see scripture saying "Son of God" and we know that is Jesus and not the Father. So we see from this that God is at least two relations, Father and Son. But then we see Spirit of God in Gen 1:2, 1 Sam 10:10 & 19:20, 2 Chron 24:20, Eze 11:24, Dan 4:18, Matt (an apostle) 3:16, & 12:31 & 28:19, Mk 1:8 & 3:29, Luke 4:1 & 12:12 (here the Spirit is a teacher), Jn (an apostle) 7:39 & 14:26 & 15:26 (and here we see a "personal" pronoun describing "Him"), Acts 1:8 (here, the Spirit Speaks)
and many more. Do you not see the distinction in these few passages?
But you carpet bombed me with too many points to respond to.
I'll address the 1st you listed. In 1 Jn 5:20 it lists the Son as the true God. Here John does not say the Father nor the Spirit is the true God. See the irony? So does that mean that the Father is not the true God??? Of course not. That would be a logical fallacy called an argument from silence and that is what you did when you pointed out that the Spirit is not mentioned here.
But in that same letter, in 1 Jn 3:24, we see John addressing the Spirit with the personal pronoun "whom" (actually the original Greek is τού πνεύματος and the ος at the end of πνεύμα makes the Spirit a "Him" and not an "it".
So we have a personal entity called the Holy Spirit and we are baptized in the name of all 3. However, all three are spirit though Jesus took on flesh for a period.
I'm not hearing many coherent arguments here, and certainly not hearing any arguments from scripture. Christians can lose their joy if they fall into sin or neglect prayer and bible study and fellowship. It can happen to anyone of any denomination, Reformed or not. All I see here is yet another channel dedicated almost exclusively to "critiquing" or bashing Reformed theology and its followers without really getting into the key doctrines in an exegetical fashion and without engaging anyone of substance from the opposite side. Echo chamber springs to mind.
The critique is shallow, assuming that Reformed believers are all fatalistic and that we don't assume responsibility for our own spiritual growth. That's not even close to the truth. As for not knowing scripture, you clearly don't know many Reformed believers if you think we don't study and know the bible. You seem bitter. Perhaps it's you that needs to repent. For misrepresentation.
Oh... did Michael Reeves offer Scripture for me to engage with? You wa t in depth Scriptural arguments against Reformed theology look to my series on OS/TD, PSA, etc
"that I have great sorrow and unceasing anguish in my heart. I could wish that I myself were accursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of my brothers, my kinsman."
Was Paul given a "joyless and despondent heart?" Was he choked by the weeds?
"You're one of us right?"
Cognitive dissonance, indeed. Whole video was rhetorically weak. Plenty of mocking, condescension, and strawmanning meant to distract from the fact there's nothing really substantive being discussed. Built upon the premise that no other theology ever has adherents who aren't full of joy, you dismiss sincere efforts to address the question. I didn't know Calvinists are the only Christians who wrote books.
Paul... was... not a follower of Calvin.
Reeves offered a weak answer, but feel free to dismiss my response as weak and avoid the arguments 😉
@@IdolKiller what arguments? That Calvinism is the only theology with people who have issues being joyful?
Also, the Paul example undercuts your immediate diagnosis of the person's lack of joy being their theology. Even Jesus wept, and Paul's and the Apostles' exhortations to be joyful would seem out of place if it came naturally. There was no indication I was saying Paul followed Calvin. I was actually using the scripture against your words, which I quoted. Makes your response about who Paul followed seem flippant.
Further, the whole context of that passage is dealing directly with what the questioner asked. Paul literally said he had "unceasing anguish" because his kinsman didn't believe what he knew was true. Was Paul wrong to feel that way?
@@controlclerk was that my argument? Or did it center instead upon the problem that Calvinism is distinct in claiming God gave its adherents a joyless heart after converting?
@IdolKiller You say it's distinct, yet I quoted Paul making similar statements about being sorrowful for the very same reason, i.e. his understanding of God's sovereignty.
When a Calvinist and non-Calvinist goes preaching to the worldly people, what both of them know for an absolute fact will happen? Answer: that almost all people to whom they will preach will not be moved nor changed nor saved by their preaching.
The difference is that Calvinists know why, it is because they are not moved by the Holy Spirit and non-Calvinists do not know why, it is a great mystery to them why almost none of the worldly people are moved, changed and saved by their preaching.
And the fact is that whether you are a Calvinist or not, both believes that almost all people were doomed to hell before the world was because God knew what He was creating, He knew that almost all people will not believe before the foundations of the world.
So, then what is the benefit of non-Calvinistic doctrine? Does it save even one more soul? No. Because God knew the precise number of people who will be saved before the foundations of the world. So, then what it is? What is the benefit? The only benefit I see is a great illusion that all those worldly people to whom you are preaching the Gospel, has at least the potential to be saved even if you know for a fact that they will never use this potential and won't be saved.
Your argument is essentially Calvinism is true because Calvinism is true. However, we are not necessary beings and thus known from all eternity. See my interview with Ryan Mullins on Dynamic Omniscience.
@@IdolKiller
I did not know you are an open theist. That changes everything.
@nikokapanen82 I affirm Dynamic Omniscience, like all of historic Christianity.
@@IdolKiller
My argument was that those reasons why non-Calvinists rejects Calvinism are not solved in their own theologies, not at all.
But at least you are an open theist, this means at least you are consistent and do not allow logical contradictions to be part of your theology.
@@nikokapanen82 yeah... I'm fine with appeals to mystery where we lack sufficient information, but hate appeals to mystery to mask an obvious contradiction.
I hold my views because I am convinced they're what Scripture teaches. Yet, having been wrong and sincerely convinced in those previous errors, I am all too keenly aware that I likely hold some error even now. Thus I am dedicated to rooting it out.
you really don't know what your talking about, dude. you exemplify a joyless heart.
Bro, I've got that joy, joy, joy...
- Where?
Down in my heart, to stay!
Who the f*** is Calvin lol I’m not watching this video
Well thanks for commenting 😅
someone who came along 1500 years after Christ to set up a cult.
Here is who and what a John Calvin is.
THE FOLLOWING IS CALVIN'S REIN OF TERROR! John Calvin’s Bodycount… The victims are listed, followed by references, (A)…(L), the URLs of which are at the bottom. A. Execution 1. Jacques Gruet (A)”Thus the State issued dogmatic decrees, the force of which had been anticipated earlier, as when Jacques Gruet, a known opponent of Calvin, was arrested, tortured for a month and beheaded on July 26, 1547, for placing a letter in Calvin’s pulpit calling him a hypocrite. Gruet’s book was later found and burned along with his house while his wife was thrown out into the street to watch.” (C)”Calvin cut off the head of Jacques Gruet “for having written impious letters, libertine verses, and for working to overthrow ecclesiastical ordinances.” (D)Quoting Stephan Zweig’s “The Right to Heresy”: “Jacques Gruet was racked and then executed merely for having called Calvin a hypocrite.” (E)”This regime was resisted by a party incorrectly described as ‘Libertines’, which Calvin succeeded in overcoming by force. Among the opponents executed after torture were Jacques Gruet (1547), Raoul Monnet (1549), and, best known, Michael *Servetus (1553).” (F)”Even eminent men were not safe from Calvin’s control. Jacques Gruet was beheaded for blasphemy, treason, and a threat to the ministers.” (J) 2. Giovanni Valentino Gentile (A)and(G)”Another victim of Calvin’s fiery zeal was Gentile of an Italian sect in Geneva, which also numbered among its adherents Alciati and Gribaldo. More or less Unitarian in their views, they were required to sign a confession drawn up by Calvin in 1558. Gentile signed it reluctantly, but in the upshot he was condemned and imprisoned as a perjurer. He escaped only to be twice incarcerated at Berne where, in 1566, he was beheaded.” (H) & (I) Very full accounts of Gentile 3. Michael Servetus Is much needed about him? Is there any debate about his murder? (A) (C)”Seven years before the conference which was now to take place in Calvin’s house on the proposals of the queen-mother, Michel Servet, a Frenchman, travelling through Switzerland, was arrested at Geneva, tried, condemned, and burned alive, on Calvin’s accusation, for having “attacked the mystery of the Trinity,” in a book which was neither written nor published in Geneva.” (E)(J) 4. Raoul Monnet (E) (J)page 223 “This regime was resisted by a party incorrectly described as “Libertines, which Calvin succeeded in overcoming by force.Among the opponents executed after torture were Jacques Gruet (1547), Raoul Monnet (1549), and best known, Michael Servetus (1553). By 1555, however, all resistance had ceased and Calvin was the uncontested master of the city.” 5. Others (A)”Calvin also had twenty women burned at the stake after accusing them of causing a plague that had swept through Geneva in 1545.” (A)”Calvin did not shrink from his self-appointed task. Within five years fifty-eight sentences of death and seventy-six of exile, besides numerous committals of the most eminent citizens to prison, took place in Geneva.” (F)”A heretic who also was an anti-Trinitarian was burned at the stake.” NOTE: Probably Servetus B. Banishment (mere banishment!) 1. Castellio (A)”Gruet’s death was more highly criticized by far than the banishment of Castellio or the penalties inflicted on Bolsec - moderate men opposed to extreme views in discipline and doctrine, who fell under suspicion as reactionary.” (B) (K) Very full account of Castellio 2. Bolsec (A)(B)(F)”Jerome Bolsec, a physician who attacked Calvin’s doctrine of predestination, was banished.” (L) 3. Others (A)”Calvin did not shrink from his self-appointed task. Within five years fifty-eight sentences of death and seventy-six of exile, besides numerous committals of the most eminent citizens to prison, took place in Geneva.” A. www.biblelife.org/calvinism.htm B. www.gospeltruth.net/heres…_chap5.htm C. www.worldwideschool.org/l…hap16.html D. www.dimensional.com/~randl/calvin.htm E. www.gospelcom.net/chi/HER…l047.shtml F. www.churchlink.com.au/chu…alvin.html G. www.newadvent.org/cathen/03195b.htm H. www.ccel.org/s/schaff/hcc…xv.xiv.htm I. online.sksm.edu/ouh/chapter/13_XIII.html J. The Oxford Dictionary of the Christian Church; F.L. Cross and E.A. Livingstone; Oxford University Press; K. www.ccel.org/s/schaff/hcc….xv.ix.htm (different page from H) L. www.ccel.org/s/schaff/hcc…v.viii.htm John Calvin is a man who is held up by many evangelicals as an example of the most perfect systematic theologian that ever lived. And yet it would appear that he did not even meet the basic requirements of a NT overseer/bishop as to godly character! 1 Tim 3:2 An overseer, then, must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, temperate, prudent, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, 3 not addicted to wine or pugnacious, but gentle, peaceable, free from the love of money. The New Testament approach to false teachers is the precise opposite of what Calvin’s modus operandi was: 2 Tim 2:24 The Lord’s bond-servant must not be quarrelsome, but be kind to all, able to teach, patient when wronged, 25 with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth, 26 and they may come to their senses {and escape} from the snare of the devil, having been held captive by him to do his will. As to the relationship of his doctrine to his practice, as he plainly taught that everything that happens is God’s will (I can provide the quotes if you would like), then it necessarily follows that he considered everything he did as God’s will, even having his detractors beheaded, burned at the stake, or banished. I’m saying that one’s theology inevitably works out in one’s practice, and this was all too apparent in the life of John Calvin. If I had someone who disagreed with my theology put to death (had I the political power Calvin had), would I be qualified to teach the Word of God? One’s actions don’t have any bearing on the authenticity of one’s teaching? It seems to me that we should hold ANY theologian to the same moral standard as any other teacher in the body of Christ.
TRUTH IN LOVE