Well technically, according to 1 John, if someone “walks away” from the faith then they didn’t ever have the faith. I have two little ones I pray for every night, and I know full well that only God in heaven can save them, I can lead them a long way, but they must make the choice. But He is also The God who desires all be saved, and makes promises that if you raise your children to know Him that when they are old they won’t depart from Him. How we feel on a matter doesn’t make any difference, the Word is the Word.
According to the U in tulip, there's no way for anyone on that panel to know with certainty that they themselves are an elect. A non elect could be saying everything they are, they're just non elect....so how do they know they're not that person? The calvinist has ruled out behavior as the qualifying criteria as to who the saved and lost are....which includes themselves. That's why you'll even hear OSAS proponents say things like " only God knows who's TRULY saved". Its absolute madness.
It’s so uncanny… I was literally JUST in an online debate with a Calvinist where I compared Salvation in their systemic to The Hunger Games. Essentially, if Calvinism is true, assurance of Salvation is based sheerly upon receiving a divine golden lottery ticket. Better hope God elected you! You might just have evanescent grace! May the odds be ever in your favor.
To be fair Calvinists don’t believe this at all. Westminster Confession of Faith Chapter 18 is probably a good place to look. In short, It essentially follows John 3. You may disagree it is consistent with their doctrine and that’s an entire different and very long in depth conversation, but it’s not what they believe.
@@kobewan9028he didn’t say they believed it, only that it is what is entailed by their systematic. But, John Calvin and many other Calvinists did teach about evanescent grace.
@@brandonvonbo9708i appreciate your calm response and not launching into anger. I should have read his argument more carefully because you are right he did not say that is what Calvinists believe but only what the doctrine leads to. I disagree but it gets extremely nuanced and you really gotta look carefully at what Scripture says about those who leave the church vs those who are saved by Christ. Personally I do not see how Arminianism is much different in its view on assurance. If I choose God of my own will than I am saved correct (by choose I am saying believe, repent, confess Jesus is Lord by my own will). Here I run into the same problem all Christians run into: how can I know I’m saved for certain. As a previous Arminian for a majority of my life I think it is fair to say that Arminian me would know that I am saved by continuing in repentance, hating sin, loving Christ and pursuing good work, etc. basically the whole 1 John 3 stuff I brought up in the initial comment. See as an Arminian I could have easily thought I believed in Jesus but I’m actually believing falsely and thus leave the Church. It seems to me the method of being assured is not entirely different from Arminianism to Calvinism. The real difference is where the assurance originates. In an Arminian viewpoint my assurance is based on my own free choice and what I do to continue on this choice albeit aided by the Spirit. In Calvinistic viewpoints my assurance is based on Gods choice and can be seen by similar proofs yet is unalterable. In either doctrine sin breads deception and people can believe they are saved when they are not. Calvin makes it clear in the commonly quoted section on this topic that the common graces given to people who only think they believe and are not actually saved are only illuminated to an extent that true salvation could never bring. In fact he even calls them hypocrisy (Institutes 3.2.11) Whether or not Calvin is right or wrong on this issue doesn’t really mean much. We all know God allows for people to be deceived in any worldview because God could stop this but does not. I believe Calvinism seeks to view the deception of man who would like to think himself saved, and the assurance of saved man in a similar way but takes on tough verses of the Bible with a well thought hermeneutics that doesn’t snake around tons of verses.
Your only hope on Manasseh's view is that you won the "divine lottery" and just happen to be one of the lucky few that got picked. Of course, you have no way of knowing whether you are one of the lucky few since that version of god could be deceiving you into thinking you're saved, for his glory of course.
@@nathanhellrung9810 he doesn't even seem capable of understanding these arguments to be frank. You can sometimes tell when some one is out of their depth and probably not well suited to debate in this format.
Lawson is a graceless preacher. Jesus said himself that heaven was made for such as these little children! Gods love and mercy far outweigh his wrath, but the Calvinist flips that upside down.
So thankful for your videos and also Leighton Flowers videos they have helped me understand where my rub was with calvinism even though I tried to hold to it. For me it was the L in TULIP that started this journey.
Me too!! 13 years in a quietly calvie church and no peace!!! It was only when I realized the L was killing me that I got free! Thx initially to binge watching Leighton Flowers
@@johntrevett2944 Well no. All of the letters are in error, and thankfully the church is coming out of this teaching that has swept in over the past couple decades. There is no “good news” in Calvinism in a gospel sense. The only “good” news it offers is that you might be chosen.
And another thing Warren, I wanted to compliment you on how ridiculously funny and absurd the thumbnail is! I laughed out loud just looking at it. The lunacy of it is very fitting with the certain theology we are aware of, LOL. Hats off to you, sir!
You can hear the dishonesty spilling over, good thing there's no fans there. If they believe Calvinism is how the Gospel really works then they should not be so ASHAMED of it and proudly declare it clearly. Calvinism lurks in the shadows behind walls of rhetoric, accuses God of being the Satan, creates novel redefinitions of words, produces converts who THEY admit should be caged...BUT other than that...
We have a loud outspoken Calvinist in our SS class. Our church body is for the most part provisionist. He is always talking about God’s sovereignty and he does as he pleases but rarely talks about God’s love. He asked us to pray for his grandson’s salvation who was asking questions about salvation. Several of us thought that was odd and wanted to say “well your grandson may but be elect” but we are too kind. He is really proud of his grandson and loves him deeply as you can tell when he talks about him. I often wonder if Calvinists really believe what they said about all children being vipers, worms and totally depraved when it involves their beloved children and grandchildren.
8:15 Lawson: "What should amaze us is any child that actually is saved". Incredibly anti-biblical statement!! Expectations aren't everything, but they are huge and foundational. Scripture makes clear that believing children should be the common expectation of every parent, since you are disqualified from eldership if your children are not faithful (Titus 1:6 "τέκνα ἔχων πιστά").
My daughter is right now living apart from God. What angers me is Steve Lawson belives in the wretched false doctrine of Calvinism. But will not be honest and state his belief. He should state that he belives your child might not be chosen. But no he hides his true belief by giving hope.
Dear Sir, your child may count to the number of the elect, we have to preach the Gospel incessantly ; there are SO MANY who come to Christ later in their life. I believe in deathbed conversions. With God all things are possible . In this Video the Calvinists are misrepresented: God's revealed will is a command to everyone: God wishes= commands that noone perishes, but we by no means know his eternal decree. All serious denominations, even the Roman Catholics, refuse to declare sure damnation on ANYONE.
BEAUTIFUL! " For it PLEASED the Father that in Him should all fulness dwell and, having made peace through the blood of His cross, by Him to reconcile all things unto Himself; by Him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven... and you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now *_He has reconciled In the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight_*
Warren, in light of the recent revelations of what God "determined" the acts of Dr. Lawson to be, perhaps even the night before he was sitting on that couch... ... this aged well. Calvinism sure is mysterious.
Had this same talk with a reformed individual that has a lot of kids. He was attempting to convince me of total depravity. I brought up that if the reformed truly believed this that they were incredibly cruel to have any children knowing the odds would be that God would be dambing some of them. It appears the reformed are not as open minded as they think... 🤔
Also if unconditional election was true why would it matter how your children are trained or if they depart from it or not. It's all determined, right? Proverbs 22:6 KJV [6] Train up a child in the way he should go: And when he is old, he will not depart from it.
@@johntrevett2944 Only if they hear and believe the Gospel. 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV [1] Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; [2] by which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. [3] For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; [4] and that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
You ought to take the famous Rush Limbaugh song "Womb to the Tomb" and make a spoof version "Doomed from the Womb." Gosh the calvi-stuff is so awful. Thanks for what you do. "God knows what it's like to have prodigal children..." that is really comforting, from this parent.
i get a little pissed when a self proclaimed calvinist uses wishy washy language that on its face indicates that men have a choice; this usually occurs when someone is in a tough situation (jail, prison, funeral, hospice, hospital), BUT THEN loudly asserts in a safe setting (REFORMED church, seminary, conferences) that God is in meticulous control while virtue signalling how their god is greater than the GOD of noncalvinists. EVERY calvinist i have heard does this why? 1) they are confused 2) they know if they spouted tulip the listeners who are suffering they would walk away (smaller attendance= reduced offerings, less influence and status, decreased approval) 3) [your reason here]____________
Great video, sad this is communicated to a group of people that are serious in mind that the Scriptures are the truth and should be explored, but are skewed with horrible lenses.
Fantastic and amen, Warren! The fact that Jesus and Paul and others used sarcasm to totally rebuke sin and error throughout the Bible is clear that it is oftentimes needed for us to do as well.
Right division (2 Tim.2:15 KJB) via a Pauline Mid-Acts Dispensational understanding of Scripture would clear up so much confusion within the Calvinist's MUD doctrine.
It’s sad (in a pathetic kind of way) when Calvinists troll sites like this but then claim that “I am not a Calvinist”. At least you know where people like Voddie Baucham stands, because he owns the fact that he is a card carrying 5 point Calvinist. These other closet Calvinists appear to be cowards. ✝️☦️
@st.christopher1155 I feel the same way. If Calvinism is God's truth, then why would Steve Lawson and so many other Calvinists hide behind misleading language? Why not just stand on it, own it, and declare it! If someone has a child that has walked away from the faith, "maybe they aren't elect, that's the hard truth, deal with it, they have no hope, but the upside is its all for God's Glory! (so they better live their best life now, cause the next one is gonna be hell)
When Lawson says we should be surprised that God saves any of our children my stomach turned. What a horrible, disgusting thought about our God, Who is love! May He have mercy on Lawson’s soul! 🙏🏼
Lawson said the prodigal might come home. Wouldn't that be doing a work? He really means the kid might be regenerated if they are lucky. Raising them in the way they should go is basically useless.
idolkiller - I have been watching your channel and also Leighton Flowers for many months! I have been born into a calvanistic reformed church and am now 30 years old. I need help as I live in a small community with no other churches to attend that are less than an hour & 1/2 away. What do we do? How can we leave this church for the future of our children? Please help
Wherever you were when God called you, there remain - unless you believe He's calling you elsewhere now. Don't look to divide, but if you can endure the erroneous teaching, try to be salt and light, in a loving way. Personally I wasn't able to do this... I just wish I had someone encouraging me to do so.
@@IdolKiller I fear I do not have the strength or respect to stay here. We have briefly shared our views with close friends and some are not happy with our new beliefs. I sit in church and the whole time feel like laughing at their provisional teachings but calvanistic mindsets... It's very frustrating and also contradicting I could laugh out loud during the service. If we were to stay how can my children be raised and profess their faith in front of the congregation. They would be denied this opportunity and rejected. We may even be excommunicated if the word gets out. This has been my life and my world for 30 years.... I don't know anything different. I crave like minded brothers and sisters here.
I could not and would not sit under the teaching of calvinism….. is it possible to start your own church in your home ? You said your children up in the fear and admonition of the Lord. We home school our kids for many of the same reasons and fears you have by bringing them up in a reformed Calvinistic church. Pray the Lord will show you what to do and consider a home church
@@jasonmason6909 I fear the ridicule/ condemnation I will be under if I start a church in my home. At this point, I feel I must write a formal letter to the consistry of my church expressing how we feel and what our new beliefs are. The few people we have spoken to have completely shunned us and have stopped talking to us because honestly I don't think they know how to answer our questions/ concerns. Perhaps they are thinking about it? Perhaps they are reconsidering their own beliefs? I can only pray
In Calvinism, God does NOT want His pre-selected reprobates to believe the gospel. In fact, there is no gospel or Savior for them to turn to. Yet, He commands them to believe this gospel . Why is God commanding those He hates & has rejected since before they were born, to believe a gospel that doesn't save them?
Seems like someone takes delight in the perishing of the wicked...very unlike God. We must pray while there is breath in their lungs they will repent and believe.
@@craigime not sure what you are on about or if you even know who the 'someone' is I am referring to, but I think it is probably you who is lacking conprehension.
How did the message contained in the books and letters of the New Testament of the Bible ever get described as the “good news” (gospel) if that message actually does communicate the Calvinistic / Augustinian / Reformed understanding of predestination and election? In what sense could a message that ultimately communicates that all of mankind is destined to eternal torment (either eternally determined or manifest in time as due to the act of their most ancient relative), BUT that a few of them have been destined to eternal joy and that these outcomes (in time) are unavoidable by any act of willing or unwilling of the individuals, and that this is ultimately the will of God? In what situation is something that is described as “good news” ever offensive to the greatest percentage of the intended audience? This should serve to indicate a problem with the understanding of what the good news is to some
Amen... There is hope and salvation availble for all parents and their children, right now, by the sacrifice on the cross, by Jesus, God's son, for US ALL❤
@@johntrevett2944 that's a lie. At no time is man a co savior to christ. I don't understand why Calvinist always tell this lie to non Calvinist. We have never said that, the early church never preaches that, so why do Calvinist still use this straw man when they know it's not true. I like you believe Jesus Christ alone is our Savior by God's grace his life death resurrection is a perfect example and sacrifice alone. No man can help save themselves because we are sinful and under Adams curse. As is the creation on earth for now. We are not guilty of his sin per se but our own, and will be judged individually for what we, not what Adam did. For there is non righteous no not one. For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. .Calvinist know we don't believe we saved ourselves and we have never made that claim yet Calvinist continually knowingly misrepresents us in bad Faith. It's like an automatic response they have to a non Calvinist that is learned and ingrained in their mind. And they never apologize even after correcting. And although just like in calvinism we have variable views on many of these subjects but I have never heard any Calvinist or non Calvinist say guess what, I saved myself or helped God saved me in any way, yet they persist with this false claim. To your other points you can be saved today and lost tomorrow... I would turn that around on you if I wanted to show you how weak of an argument that is by saying. You could be lost today and saved tomorrow, what a crazy theology that is... Get my point works both ways. .. It's a false dilemna when you can just reverse anothers person argument bact to them meaning it dies not follow no logic to your point. Adam could be in fellowship with God perfectly one moment then fall be separated the next and then fellowship again . .can he not and I believe that actually happened. I believe Jesus said plainly if you believe in him you are saved if you don't you are not and he alone knows the heart the intentions the amount of light you have been exposed to so he is the final judge not you or I, he also made it clear God will not forgive you if you do not forgive others, its even in his Lord's prayer guidelines. As we speak there are many that think they are forgiven but they are not because they have not forgiven others. God does not ordain us to heaven or hell for salvation or damnation before we are born as John Calvin claims if he did we cannot be guilty of anything and our belief would be false for ed belief not true belief from the free will intelligent beings .that would actually mean babies go to hell aborted babies as well with no chance for salvation. Or as Paul washer and James white apparently believe all of our thoughts and sin even child and infant rape was determined band brought to 9ast casually with no other option possible by God himself before creation and cannot be changed .. not that's a demonic theology or rather gnosticism. Which Augustine and his murderer worshipper John Calvin mixed with Christianity to creat a new systematic theology that some unfortunately are calling the doctrines of grace when it is anything but should be called the gnostic gospel of reprobates. Christians even some Calvinist have different views on this. .some believe once you are saved, you lose free will, and cannot fall away from that salvation and apostatize, even though the bible warns against doing just that, that and instructs us to restore those that have fallen away from the faith. .Jesus even says we can know the last days as then many in the faith will fall away from the faith, and yes we should attempt to restore them with loves, teaching rebuke etc. And Jesus was talking to believers when he said this. Judgement starts at the house of the Lord, we often look at the world and think my are they evil that mean Jesus may be coming back soon, but actually it's when those in the faith fall away from the faith as we are seeing world wide right now as the church is not only accepting the world in it is promoting the world over Christ mixing the holy with the profane.. That were judgement begins. The world is naturally supposed to be evil, not the church. In short God allows through his holy grace all men to be saved, not forced fir some and withhold salvation from others. .this way his judgement is not forced or withheld unfairly and man is responsible and truly guilty or truly believing in God not by force irresistible but by God given free will like our father Adam and mother eve. And once saved you do not lose your ability to walk away from God for the world, in fact many do, and of those many are restored but not all, our job is to help restore them instead of claiming they were never saved, which is something only Jesus can know not us we can only see the outside actions Jesus sees the heart and can restore those who have been saved and fallen away like the prodigal son while they yet live, they could also just have backsliden and or blame God for a lost love one family financial problems etc temporarily but still believe and just need time and encouragement to come back home to their father who will not turn them away. Never tell someone they were never saved, because only Jesus has that power, although I hear christians claim this about those who fall away. Now there are also believers who believe once saved you can never fall away from the faith once saved always saved doctrine which by definition means once lost always lost would also have credibilty Remember.sometimes people leave only temporarily from the faith. Only to come back later with the words you were never saved to begin with still fresh in their minds from so call christians and friends. .again only Jesus knows that. We can all agree only Jesus saves not us in any way. And how has God decided to do that.. by his grace not ours by his son's sacrifice and blood not ours. God has given all mankind a conscious knowing right from wrong and the gift of faith which can be used by all to believe in him or reject him the faith in itself does not save you, or condemn you whether you choose to believe in Allah Satan or Jesus, it is just a gift a tool all humans possess by God decree to allow them to deny themselves knowing they cannot save themselves and putting their faith 8n the only 8ne with the power to save them Jesus Christ by free will, again the faith does not save, the one they have faith in dies save that Jesus Christ. .so please never claim the false straw men that we or any traditional Christian that I know of believe we save ourselves. We have assurance of salvation by our belief in Jesus Christ the holy Ghost correcting and comforting us God chastising us, the fruit of the spirit and the many blessings God gives us as he has predestined all those believers in him in Christ our justification, sanctification, and soon glorification .eph 1:1
Thanks for highlighting this. It is interesting how sometimes one’s theology hits up against a reality that is very personal and emotional. I know someone who strongly argued about losing salvation, and was convinced Hebrews teaches that if someone turns away there is no possibility of a return. Then, shortly after, the same preacher shared how his son had wandered away from God; so, we were asked to pray he would return to God. I’m glad this real situation trumped his theology, and I understand his son has now come back ‘home’.
If we were able to lose our salvation we would, no doubt, the flesh is weak even though the spirit is willing. It is God who has placed His seal of ownership on us and He will keep us till our day of redemption. A supernatural act of regeneration cannot be done by human hands, stands to reason it cannot be undone by human hands. How does one become unregenerated? How does a new creature, from which the old has passed away, become the same old creature again? Where is it written that a person that has been baptized into the Body of Christ, predestined to be adopted in the future, be lost? Those who come to be in Christ has only one final destination, Jesus is the author and finisher of our faith! Like Paul said, test yourself to see if Christ is truly in you, lest you be found counterfeit. The issue is not whether someone can be lost, but whether someone is truly saved.
That Hebrews stuff was what led me down a road of examining catholicism when I came back to Christianity 2.5 years ago. Have made peace with it now but don't really know why!
Calvinism seems to just assume that control is the highest display of sovereign power. As someone waiting for a prodigal, I will tell you what the Lord has said to me personally. Instead of cultivating a controlling spirit toward anyone, how about I humble myself and cultivate room for the Spirit’s presence and influence in my own life and heart so especially my children will have the best possible chance of meeting Jesus personally. “Pursue peace with all people, and holiness, without which no one will see the Lord:” Hebrews 12:14
Along the same lines as Lawson.....Someone once tried to tell me that you can tell who the reprobate are by "their fruits." Sometimes the Calvinist thinks he's judge and jury.
Another to the Point Video Warren...How can Calvinist Continue with this Insanity? One must wonder whether or not there is a Rubber Room in Heaven? The Truth is these men Teaching Calvinism really piss me off...Never give an inch to these Piety Twisters.
I have never really delved deeply into the things of Calvinism. I only have a surface understanding. What heartbreaking implications the theology would have when it comes to the parent whose child has wandered. Is there a distinction between one who is reformed and one who is Calvinist? I always clumped them together, but recently I heard there is a difference.
Calvinists use Reformed synonymously. However, Lutherans are Reformed but not Calvinist... essentially Reformed is a closer synonym of Protestant. In this sense even certain Anabaptists could be called Reformed, while clearly not Calvinist.
Their adherents do make distinctions between the two, however they have so much in common, it seems largely opinion as to whether or how much of a difference there is.
Once again, great content here. Time and time again, we find that the best rebuttal of Calvinism is using their own words. The inherent implications of Calvinism are abhorrent to a Holy God, who truly desires the repentance and salvation of all His children, without exception. Keep up the good work.
God will lift the just 70 × 7. Jesus Christ paid the price. When a sheep leaves the group, you go look for It. And you don't beat it up, you don't torture it. You bring it back with love and take care of it.
That's what always bothered me and what I found repugnant in this theology. There's always the secondary script, the true script, running in the background of their accommodative teaching and language that really makes it all seem disingenuous.
It seems like Proverbs 22:6 should be considered an absolute promise under Calvinism. If it is God who is deciding how parents will train their children, then it doesn't make sense that he would allow for the possibility that good training would result in them departing from the faith.
The gentleman quoted: Proverbs 22:6 Train up a child in the way he should go, And when he is old he will not depart from it. Dr. Doug Stewart of Gordon Conwell College was on a translation committee and challeged the translation of this verse. He submitted that the verse is better translated that a child's character is formed by the kind of home the child is reared in. If the home is dysfunctional, the child will be dysfunctional. The leaders of the translation committee conceded that this was true. However, because parents have been encouraged for years by the way it was translated, they were not going to change it.
According to SL, every parent is to live in life long anguish & torment as to whether their child is one of the elect...talk about a double whammy added to Calvin's 'doomed from the womb' 🤯
The more I hear these arrogant, know it alls, reformed 'theologians' the more convinced I get that these false teachers are evil and do not consider them Christian. Why? Because they ascribe to our Loving, Gracious and forgiving Heavenly Father things that Satan has done and desires to do, send everyone to Hell. May the Lord Jesus crush this heresy so more people come to know and hear the real Gospel. For God is NOT WILLING that anyone perish, BUT ALL, come to repentance. How can anyone possible misread this verse. I despise reform/Calvinism doctrines!!!
I struggle in this area as well. God knows their motives and reasoning and will judge them accordingly. Some may well be intentional in their deceiving others, while some may be victims who have been deceived themselves. This is why only God can fairly judge men. In the meantime I just note the problems and try my best to point folks to Christ.
@@IdolKiller I really see what you’re saying here Warren and I would not go so far as the person in this comment to call every Calvinist theologian arrogant and evil BUT as I’ve mentioned before, judgement calls need to be made unless we want to ignore the instructions from 2 Corinthians 11:4 and Galatians 1:9. I believe everything we do needs to be in love and although I leave room for some Calvinists to actually be saved and know and love the true God, I think the Church needs to drastically change their acceptance of calvinism (which means the acceptance of those who adhere to it and/or preach it- CalvinISTS) and start trusting God in His judgement of this type of deep error. Although many calvinists could be a nice person and be very sincere in their faith and take the Bible very seriously that does not automatically mean that they are born again. I’m not interested in being the judge of everyones eternal soul but if someone is part of a 5 point movement which ALSO includes determinism and prefaith regeneration this is a massive stumbling block to knowing Christ and is super damaging to the body of beleivers and not to mention those who have not yet believed. I really do not believe that the early church would stand for these type of heresies and so easily call those who adhere to it “brother” and “sister” out of fear of being divisive. Even I, who was never a Calvinist, but had a couple “calvinistic” type of beliefs was greatly hindered by these false views so I can’t imagine what a hinderance embracing full on all 5 points and all the other garbage that goes along with it would do to someones life! I believe those who are CONSISTANT hard determinist Calvinists are very far gone and have hardened their heart and calloused their minds… I do not think most of those who are more “compatabilist Calvinists” have done that kind of spiritual damage to themselves and some might be saved but a QUESTION MARK is rightfully there as to if they are a Christian because they reject the things that make Christianity Christianity believing such a deep array of unbiblical doctrines that effect the lens of the whole Bible, Gods character, and the gospel. I think this is righteous judgement to judge self proclaiming “Christians” by their beliefs when such beliefs are so vast and so core to the very basics of Christianity. There are tons of nice people who are very sincere and take their belief in God very seriously but they are not saved bc they are from a complete different religion. They are perhaps closer to God than a hardened atheist who willfully rejects all form of reason and truth but that doesn’t mean they are currently right with God. That’s how I feel about this Calvinist issue. I do not think we can so easily separate Calvinists from calvinism because calvinism is a belief system formed up of PEOPLE. I do recognize that we CAN blanket statement say that CalvinISM is evil and demonic and we can’t make that kind of blanket statement of CalvinISTS, but I don’t think that means that we can so easily COMPLETELY separate the ism from the adherents of the ism. Galatians 1:9 and 2 Corinthians 11:4 I think agrees). Sorry for such a long response but I think this is a very important topic that can easily get misunderstood.
@@Loves2HugItOut Well said. As I met more and more Calvinists in the passed couple of years ( we attended one without being aware of it because they remained open during covid) I began to realize that many, if not all, of them had actually encountered the Lord through what seemed to me, a genuine 'born again' experience BUT, in there youthful zeal as new believers, some reformed Calvinist would introduce this doctrine of 'election' and what new babe in Christ would not fall for this heresy because they love the Lord, feel forgiven but are told that they had 'nothing to do' with their coming to Faith, their decision to believe and follow The Lord was really not theirs and then, begins the indoctrination of Reformed theology! I know many are genuine but have given their critical minds over to others who are seemingly 'smarter'. God have mercy on these wolves.
From one Warren to another let me say “great video” on an important topic. Ultimate Reconciliation is a doctrine which can give all parents hope. Calvinism twists scripture on what it means to be “elect.” It is about service not salvation.
God’s unconditional election is one link in the unbreakable chain of salvation seen in Romans 8:28-29: “For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.” All those who are predestined will be saved (John 6:39; Romans 8:30) because they are the ones that God the Father gives to Jesus Christ (John 6:37) who will raise them up on the last day (John 6:39; John 17:2). They are Christ’s sheep (John 10:1-30) who hear His voice and for whom He died (John 10:15) in order to give them eternal life and make them secure forever in the hand of God (John 10:26-30).
At the Areopagus on Mars Hill where there were many stone statues of the Greek Gods who in reality had no eyes that could see, tongues that could speak, or ears that could not hear there was a monument to an unknown god. The apostle Paul wanted to introduce the philosophers in the Areopagus to the God who created all things. Lawsons god is one of those Greek statues, the only difference between Lawson and the Greeks is that Lawson has limited his Greek god to only one god, that is most likely influenced by the one God of the Bible.
The doctrine is absolutely anti-Christ. However, people generally don't operate so cleanly... they can mentally assent to false doctrines but practically live out the truth. I can't separate the wheat from the chaff, but I can point out false teaching. I can certainly have concern over the deceived, especially given their fruit.
@@IdolKiller So, is it our beliefs in the true Jesus or our actions of following his commandments that saves us? If I believe A that is false but I act in way B that satisfies his commandments, am I truly saved? What if I believe A that id true but act in way B that is against his commands, am I saved?
IMHO… The reason fully 66% of current Christian youth group members will leave the faith within 18 months of high school graduation is because they have been thoroughly taught WHAT to believe but not taught WHY… Our belief & trust is evidenced… Sadly, almost no parent & few pastors have any notion of basic apologetics… As a result , when a young person goes to college & meets a Bart Ehrman in a lecture hall or on the web, they get blown out of the tub…
You cannot be a consistent Calvinist and tell someone that they OUGHT to do anything. Rebuke, admonishment, teaching, all of these are essentially meaningless to an absolutely consistent Calvinist. Most Calvinists are inconsistent.
If your child goes into the world. The greatest commandment can bring him back its love. Remember who are your friends, And leaders real Christians or bunch of baboons? Remember, it's a personal relationship with Christ To be humble Remember you were there once. Jesus Christ died for everyone.❤
Paul prayed for the "salvation" of the Israel that didn't receive Christ. Rom10:1-3. Parents can do the same. Sadly consistent calvinists preach the opposite.
*"We cannot coerce them into the kingdom... we can't manipulate them into the Kingdom..."* no but you certainly can manipulate and coerce them out of the Kingdom by teaching them this Abomination called Calvinism and ensure they don't enter in because they reject the real God Almighty because they confuse Him with the false characterization of God presented to they by Calvinists... I have to wonder how many souls have been lost because because these Calvinist blasphemers misrepresent God Almighty. It's so frustrating...
This is not the only bad side effect. A worse side effect in my opinion, is that many of the former Calvinists who turn athiest then turn into some of the most vile Anti-Christian and anti-thiest commentators on the internet. Calvinism's ability to create anti-Christians is unparalleled.
Man, the more I hear it the less it makes sense, So train the children in the ways of the Lord not knowing if they are the elect and when they are older they will not depart from it unless they were predestined to damnation 🤔
At 09:05 the guy says that "a gracious Father will receive" the prodigal who returns home. I don't understand. How does it require any grace to receive home someone that you have foreordained would come home anyway? If a person is "of the elect" and predestined to believe, then why should the angels celebrate their conversion if that conversion was guaranteed to happen? Isn't that sorta like a person gets all excited that a boxer wins the match when in actuality the outcome was already determined because you poisoned the opponent's food to make them weak and sick? Or how about in a banana republic when they claim to have an honest election when actually they stuffed the ballot box to ensure they win? How can you be excited about the outcome of a contest when you were simply an expert at cheating to get the outcome you wanted?
I was one of those children. PK to be exact. I knew just enough to give other Christians fits about their faith. The Lord answered my questions and brought me back to the faith through Calvinism
honest calvinist answer “rejoice oh parent that god has chosen you to suffer for his glory, and your child to burn forever in the eternal monument to his holy wrath. without your suffering and your reprobate child’s suffering, god could not be fully glorified. thank you for your service”
On Calvinism you're living in some sort of make believe world where all actions and thoughts are not really your own or those of other people. It is very hard to operate and thrive in this kind of cerebral prison. Reality is totally distorted.
So true they make a human parent look more loving than God Who is love!! hmm BIG problem.. 1 John 4:16 NKJV - And we have known and believed the love that God has for us. God is love, and he who abides in love abides in God, and God in him. I've always thought that is one of God’s characteristics that seems to also be twisted within calvinism🌻
Dr. Steve Lawson, president and founder of OnePassion Ministries, from the Ligonier Ministries' 2009 National Conference, The Holiness of God containing his address, "The Legacy of John Calvin" given on the occasion of the 500th anniversary of John Calvin's birth: "Rightly has one contemporary author identified John Calvin as the man of the millennium, meaning he is the single greatest influence upon modern history over the last thousand years. I would agree with that, in fact, I would push it out further and say that Calvin is the man of the last two millennia, that you would have to go all the way back to the days of the biblical writers, to Paul and to John, in order to see one who towered above history and has left such a dominant influence. It is almost impossible to overstate the importance and the legacy of John Calvin. William Cunningham, the Scottish divine, said 'Calvin was by far the greatest of the Reformers. Calvin is the man who, next to St. Paul, has done most to mankind.' And no less than Charles Haddon Spurgeon, the prince of preachers, said 'Among all those who have been born of women,' and that pretty much covers the field, 'among all those who have born of women, there has not been risen a greater than John Calvin. No age before him ever produced his equal and no age afterwards has seen his rival.' As a result, S.M. Houghton has written 'It has been said that to omit John Calvin from the history of Western civilization is to read history with one eye closed.' These are among the estimates of Calvin's life and ministry and his place in history, and so the question before us now is 'What is his legacy? Calvin stood at the headwaters of the Reformation and we now stand downstream, and what has flowed downstream to us from the pulpit, the study and the pen of John Calvin?'" [ 0:58 - 3:21 of the youtube video Steve Lawson: The Legacy of John Calvin; /watch?v=xx1g5WfM6Xw ]
@@IdolKiller while you are talking, the “hold music” is too loud and distracting… And the thrash rock in the intro music and inserted throughout your vids for impact is probably not the best choice, IMO. I know you cut your teeth on NIN, but I don’t believe most of your listeners want to listen to that kind of music - especially while they’re in “learning mode” of Biblical truth. It makes my heart pound, always has… But I just wanted to share my thoughts. I have had ppl tell me before on Social media that my background music was too loud, even when it’s just instrumental Christian music. Hope this is helpful, brother. Keep up the good work! 👊🏼📖🗡️🔥
As it has been said many times, “some doctrines don’t need to be refuted just clearly stated” you did this well Warren.
Do you extend that analysis to the doctrine of eternal conscious torture in hell for eternity?
@@rafal2959 Yes
According to Calvinism the child never had faith to lose.
The Child never had the markings of a varsity Christian
zing.
Well technically, according to 1 John, if someone “walks away” from the faith then they didn’t ever have the faith. I have two little ones I pray for every night, and I know full well that only God in heaven can save them, I can lead them a long way, but they must make the choice. But He is also The God who desires all be saved, and makes promises that if you raise your children to know Him that when they are old they won’t depart from Him.
How we feel on a matter doesn’t make any difference, the Word is the Word.
AMEN! He delights in forgiveness and reconciliation!
😃
@Animosity-yj7um on the basis of His character as faithful to keep His promises.
@@AndrewKeifer Amen! My God is also our Faithful Father
Amen brother! What a discouraging message from Lawson. I’m glad you ended with the encouraging truth!
According to the U in tulip, there's no way for anyone on that panel to know with certainty that they themselves are an elect. A non elect could be saying everything they are, they're just non elect....so how do they know they're not that person? The calvinist has ruled out behavior as the qualifying criteria as to who the saved and lost are....which includes themselves. That's why you'll even hear OSAS proponents say things like " only God knows who's TRULY saved". Its absolute madness.
It’s so uncanny…
I was literally JUST in an online debate with a Calvinist where I compared Salvation in their systemic to The Hunger Games.
Essentially, if Calvinism is true, assurance of Salvation is based sheerly upon receiving a divine golden lottery ticket. Better hope God elected you! You might just have evanescent grace! May the odds be ever in your favor.
The Calvinist answer to that: “No it’s not.”
With no argument to explain why it's not @@JohnK557
To be fair Calvinists don’t believe this at all. Westminster Confession of Faith Chapter 18 is probably a good place to look. In short, It essentially follows John 3. You may disagree it is consistent with their doctrine and that’s an entire different and very long in depth conversation, but it’s not what they believe.
@@kobewan9028he didn’t say they believed it, only that it is what is entailed by their systematic. But, John Calvin and many other Calvinists did teach about evanescent grace.
@@brandonvonbo9708i appreciate your calm response and not launching into anger. I should have read his argument more carefully because you are right he did not say that is what Calvinists believe but only what the doctrine leads to. I disagree but it gets extremely nuanced and you really gotta look carefully at what Scripture says about those who leave the church vs those who are saved by Christ.
Personally I do not see how Arminianism is much different in its view on assurance. If I choose God of my own will than I am saved correct (by choose I am saying believe, repent, confess Jesus is Lord by my own will). Here I run into the same problem all Christians run into: how can I know I’m saved for certain.
As a previous Arminian for a majority of my life I think it is fair to say that Arminian me would know that I am saved by continuing in repentance, hating sin, loving Christ and pursuing good work, etc. basically the whole 1 John 3 stuff I brought up in the initial comment. See as an Arminian I could have easily thought I believed in Jesus but I’m actually believing falsely and thus leave the Church.
It seems to me the method of being assured is not entirely different from Arminianism to Calvinism. The real difference is where the assurance originates. In an Arminian viewpoint my assurance is based on my own free choice and what I do to continue on this choice albeit aided by the Spirit. In Calvinistic viewpoints my assurance is based on Gods choice and can be seen by similar proofs yet is unalterable.
In either doctrine sin breads deception and people can believe they are saved when they are not. Calvin makes it clear in the commonly quoted section on this topic that the common graces given to people who only think they believe and are not actually saved are only illuminated to an extent that true salvation could never bring. In fact he even calls them hypocrisy (Institutes 3.2.11)
Whether or not Calvin is right or wrong on this issue doesn’t really mean much. We all know God allows for people to be deceived in any worldview because God could stop this but does not. I believe Calvinism seeks to view the deception of man who would like to think himself saved, and the assurance of saved man in a similar way but takes on tough verses of the Bible with a well thought hermeneutics that doesn’t snake around tons of verses.
How is it possible to laugh and cry at the same time? I wish I could take those kids out for a coffee and have a conversation with them.
Your only hope on Manasseh's view is that you won the "divine lottery" and just happen to be one of the lucky few that got picked. Of course, you have no way of knowing whether you are one of the lucky few since that version of god could be deceiving you into thinking you're saved, for his glory of course.
@@AndrewKeifer, I don’t know if I’ve seen many who are more ideologically possessed than Manny. It’s like he’s trying to win a competition.
@@ManassehJones 🙏 for you and your 👪.
@@ManassehJones you mean it's your opinion that it's objective and eternal Biblical truth.
@@nathanhellrung9810 he doesn't even seem capable of understanding these arguments to be frank. You can sometimes tell when some one is out of their depth and probably not well suited to debate in this format.
Lawson is a graceless preacher. Jesus said himself that heaven was made for such as these little children! Gods love and mercy far outweigh his wrath, but the Calvinist flips that upside down.
This is fantastic! Thank you for your ministry! They've helped me so much.
So thankful for your videos and also Leighton Flowers videos they have helped me understand where my rub was with calvinism even though I tried to hold to it. For me it was the L in TULIP that started this journey.
Me too!! 13 years in a quietly calvie church and no peace!!!
It was only when I realized the L was killing me that I got free! Thx initially to binge watching Leighton Flowers
The L is the only error in the TULIP.
@@johntrevett2944
Well no. All of the letters are in error, and thankfully the church is coming out of this teaching that has swept in over the past couple decades.
There is no “good news” in Calvinism in a gospel sense.
The only “good” news it offers is that you might be chosen.
@@laurakosch Agree to disagree..and that's OK!
@@johntrevett2944 agreed, yes. There is much peace in that the truth will always be revealed in the end!
And another thing Warren, I wanted to compliment you on how ridiculously funny and absurd the thumbnail is! I laughed out loud just looking at it. The lunacy of it is very fitting with the certain theology we are aware of, LOL. Hats off to you, sir!
Another great ideo. Thank you Warren.
Thanks again!
You can hear the dishonesty spilling over, good thing there's no fans there. If they believe Calvinism is how the Gospel really works then they should not be so ASHAMED of it and proudly declare it clearly.
Calvinism lurks in the shadows behind walls of rhetoric, accuses God of being the Satan, creates novel redefinitions of words, produces converts who THEY admit should be caged...BUT other than that...
You've been stepping up your game lately. Another great showing.
Much appreciated. I'm trying!
We have a loud outspoken Calvinist in our SS class. Our church body is for the most part provisionist. He is always talking about God’s sovereignty and he does as he pleases but rarely talks about God’s love. He asked us to pray for his grandson’s salvation who was asking questions about salvation. Several of us thought that was odd and wanted to say “well your grandson may but be elect” but we are too kind. He is really proud of his grandson and loves him deeply as you can tell when he talks about him. I often wonder if Calvinists really believe what they said about all children being vipers, worms and totally depraved when it involves their beloved children and grandchildren.
8:15 Lawson: "What should amaze us is any child that actually is saved". Incredibly anti-biblical statement!! Expectations aren't everything, but they are huge and foundational. Scripture makes clear that believing children should be the common expectation of every parent, since you are disqualified from eldership if your children are not faithful (Titus 1:6 "τέκνα ἔχων πιστά").
My daughter is right now living apart from God. What angers me is Steve Lawson belives in the wretched false doctrine of Calvinism. But will not be honest and state his belief. He should state that he belives your child might not be chosen. But no he hides his true belief by giving hope.
Praying for you and your daughter. God loves you both!
@@IdolKillerThank you.
Dear Sir, your child may count to the number of the elect, we have to preach the Gospel incessantly ; there are SO MANY who come to Christ later in their life. I believe in deathbed conversions. With God all things are possible .
In this Video the Calvinists are misrepresented: God's revealed will is a command to everyone: God wishes= commands that noone perishes, but we by no means know his eternal decree. All serious denominations, even the Roman Catholics, refuse to declare sure damnation on ANYONE.
@JunkerStolzing the video misrepresented nothing. Address the quotes and entailments. Dismissal is worthless.
BEAUTIFUL!
" For it PLEASED the Father that in Him should all fulness dwell and, having made peace through the blood of His cross, by Him to reconcile all things unto Himself; by Him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven... and you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now *_He has reconciled In the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight_*
Warren, in light of the recent revelations of what God "determined" the acts of Dr. Lawson to be, perhaps even the night before he was sitting on that couch... ... this aged well. Calvinism sure is mysterious.
Hinduism, Buddhism, Mormonism, Calvinism. Enlightened bedfellows.
Had this same talk with a reformed individual that has a lot of kids. He was attempting to convince me of total depravity. I brought up that if the reformed truly believed this that they were incredibly cruel to have any children knowing the odds would be that God would be dambing some of them. It appears the reformed are not as open minded as they think... 🤔
Also if unconditional election was true why would it matter how your children are trained or if they depart from it or not. It's all determined, right?
Proverbs 22:6 KJV
[6] Train up a child in the way he should go: And when he is old, he will not depart from it.
@@BigGuy86ed If a parent raises a kid up in the way of the Lord they will be saved 100%?
@@johntrevett2944 Only if they hear and believe the Gospel.
1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV
[1] Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; [2] by which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. [3] For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; [4] and that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
Well done brother!!
Thank you!
You ought to take the famous Rush Limbaugh song "Womb to the Tomb" and make a spoof version "Doomed from the Womb."
Gosh the calvi-stuff is so awful. Thanks for what you do. "God knows what it's like to have prodigal children..." that is really comforting, from this parent.
Another great video! Thank you for expressing Father God's heart
Great stuff
Thank you for this video- so on point! My teenage son was listening in and recognized the unbiblical nature of these arguments right away.
This video may be your very best. Well Done !
Thank you!
i get a little pissed when a self proclaimed calvinist uses wishy washy language that on its face indicates that men have a choice; this usually occurs when someone is in a tough situation (jail, prison, funeral, hospice, hospital), BUT THEN loudly asserts in a safe setting (REFORMED church, seminary, conferences) that God is in meticulous control while virtue signalling how their god is greater than the GOD of noncalvinists.
EVERY calvinist i have heard does this
why?
1) they are confused
2) they know if they spouted tulip the listeners who are suffering they would walk away (smaller attendance= reduced offerings, less influence and status, decreased approval)
3) [your reason here]____________
Thank you! Blessings to you and your work.
Calvinist is a Calvinist just in theory. In the real life they hope that God is not like they think.
Great video, sad this is communicated to a group of people that are serious in mind that the Scriptures are the truth and should be explored, but are skewed with horrible lenses.
So good, Warren.
Fantastic and amen, Warren! The fact that Jesus and Paul and others used sarcasm to totally rebuke sin and error throughout the Bible is clear that it is oftentimes needed for us to do as well.
Great analysis
Right division (2 Tim.2:15 KJB) via a Pauline Mid-Acts Dispensational understanding of Scripture would clear up so much confusion within the Calvinist's MUD doctrine.
Very well done sir!
It’s sad (in a pathetic kind of way) when Calvinists troll sites like this but then claim that “I am not a Calvinist”. At least you know where people like Voddie Baucham stands, because he owns the fact that he is a card carrying 5 point Calvinist. These other closet Calvinists appear to be cowards.
✝️☦️
Often times their motive is to avoid the stigmatism associated with the term and/or to use as a foil in debate.
@@AndrewKeifer
Or to put it another way, they are being cowardly AND deceptive. 😇
*cough* Manichean Jokes *cough
@st.christopher1155 I feel the same way. If Calvinism is God's truth, then why would Steve Lawson and so many other Calvinists hide behind misleading language? Why not just stand on it, own it, and declare it!
If someone has a child that has walked away from the faith, "maybe they aren't elect, that's the hard truth, deal with it, they have no hope, but the upside is its all for God's Glory!
(so they better live their best life now, cause the next one is gonna be hell)
@@st.christopher1155just like their god.
When Lawson says we should be surprised that God saves any of our children my stomach turned. What a horrible, disgusting thought about our God, Who is love!
May He have mercy on Lawson’s soul! 🙏🏼
Lawson said the prodigal might come home. Wouldn't that be doing a work? He really means the kid might be regenerated if they are lucky. Raising them in the way they should go is basically useless.
Well stated and explained that even a Calvinist can understand.
😅
lol oh no not Steve Lawson! hahahaha
Excellent video! Thank you, Warren! Especially loved the menacing music accompanying the quotes from Calvin! 😅❤
Calvinism is so dark and sad. I can’t believe that people believe this.
9:04 Lawson gives false hope for the Calvinist parents to hold on to so they don't reevaluate their presupposition.
Absolutely correct observation!
I don't think there's any doctrine more wicked than Calvinism.
idolkiller - I have been watching your channel and also Leighton Flowers for many months! I have been born into a calvanistic reformed church and am now 30 years old. I need help as I live in a small community with no other churches to attend that are less than an hour & 1/2 away. What do we do? How can we leave this church for the future of our children? Please help
Wherever you were when God called you, there remain - unless you believe He's calling you elsewhere now. Don't look to divide, but if you can endure the erroneous teaching, try to be salt and light, in a loving way.
Personally I wasn't able to do this... I just wish I had someone encouraging me to do so.
@@IdolKiller I fear I do not have the strength or respect to stay here. We have briefly shared our views with close friends and some are not happy with our new beliefs. I sit in church and the whole time feel like laughing at their provisional teachings but calvanistic mindsets... It's very frustrating and also contradicting I could laugh out loud during the service.
If we were to stay how can my children be raised and profess their faith in front of the congregation. They would be denied this opportunity and rejected.
We may even be excommunicated if the word gets out. This has been my life and my world for 30 years.... I don't know anything different. I crave like minded brothers and sisters here.
I could not and would not sit under the teaching of calvinism….. is it possible to start your own church in your home ? You said your children up in the fear and admonition of the Lord.
We home school our kids for many of the same reasons and fears you have by bringing them up in a reformed Calvinistic church.
Pray the Lord will show you what to do and consider a home church
@@leannevanderveen8792 I understand completely. I spent 30 in it myself
@@jasonmason6909 I fear the ridicule/ condemnation I will be under if I start a church in my home. At this point, I feel I must write a formal letter to the consistry of my church expressing how we feel and what our new beliefs are. The few people we have spoken to have completely shunned us and have stopped talking to us because honestly I don't think they know how to answer our questions/ concerns. Perhaps they are thinking about it? Perhaps they are reconsidering their own beliefs? I can only pray
In Calvinism, God does NOT want His pre-selected reprobates to believe the gospel. In fact, there is no gospel or Savior for them to turn to.
Yet, He commands them to believe this gospel .
Why is God commanding those He hates & has rejected since before they were born, to believe a gospel that doesn't save them?
10:21 You should turn this into a short and tag Abraham Piper and any other big-name Calvinist kids that have walked away from Christ.
I really like this idea!
Seems like someone takes delight in the perishing of the wicked...very unlike God.
We must pray while there is breath in their lungs they will repent and believe.
@@AnniEastwho said he's taking delight? Seems like you lack reading comprehension
@@craigime not sure what you are on about or if you even know who the 'someone' is I am referring to, but I think it is probably you who is lacking conprehension.
@@AnniEast don't even understand what I wrote huh?
How did the message contained in the books and letters of the New Testament of the Bible ever get described as the “good news” (gospel) if that message actually does communicate the Calvinistic / Augustinian / Reformed understanding of predestination and election?
In what sense could a message that ultimately communicates that all of mankind is destined to eternal torment (either eternally determined or manifest in time as due to the act of their most ancient relative), BUT that a few of them have been destined to eternal joy and that these outcomes (in time) are unavoidable by any act of willing or unwilling of the individuals, and that this is ultimately the will of God?
In what situation is something that is described as “good news” ever offensive to the greatest percentage of the intended audience?
This should serve to indicate a problem with the understanding of what the good news is to some
It ultimately stems from calvinists believe the word elect is to salvation,, election has to do with service and future blessings for the believer
What a great truth!
So cool adding direct quoted from JC himself. (I mean, John Calvin)
Amen...
There is hope and salvation availble for all parents and their children, right now, by the sacrifice on the cross, by Jesus, God's son, for US ALL❤
Well according to this theology you can be saved one day and lost the next. Man, is co-savior with Chrisr.
@@johntrevett2944 that's a lie.
At no time is man a co savior to christ.
I don't understand why Calvinist always tell this lie to non Calvinist.
We have never said that, the early church never preaches that, so why do Calvinist still use this straw man when they know it's not true.
I like you believe Jesus Christ alone is our Savior by God's grace his life death resurrection is a perfect example and sacrifice alone.
No man can help save themselves because we are sinful and under Adams curse.
As is the creation on earth for now.
We are not guilty of his sin per se but our own, and will be judged individually for what we, not what Adam did.
For there is non righteous no not one.
For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.
.Calvinist know we don't believe we saved ourselves and we have never made that claim yet Calvinist continually knowingly misrepresents us in bad Faith.
It's like an automatic response they have to a non Calvinist that is learned and ingrained in their mind.
And they never apologize even after correcting.
And although just like in calvinism we have variable views on many of these subjects but I have never heard any Calvinist or non Calvinist say guess what, I saved myself or helped God saved me in any way, yet they persist with this false claim.
To your other points you can be saved today and lost tomorrow...
I would turn that around on you if I wanted to show you how weak of an argument that is by saying.
You could be lost today and saved tomorrow, what a crazy theology that is... Get my point works both ways. ..
It's a false dilemna when you can just reverse anothers person argument bact to them meaning it dies not follow no logic to your point.
Adam could be in fellowship with God perfectly one moment then fall be separated the next and then fellowship again .
.can he not and I believe that actually happened.
I believe Jesus said plainly if you believe in him you are saved if you don't you are not and he alone knows the heart the intentions the amount of light you have been exposed to so he is the final judge not you or I, he also made it clear God will not forgive you if you do not forgive others, its even in his Lord's prayer guidelines.
As we speak there are many that think they are forgiven but they are not because they have not forgiven others.
God does not ordain us to heaven or hell for salvation or damnation before we are born as John Calvin claims if he did we cannot be guilty of anything and our belief would be false for ed belief not true belief from the free will intelligent beings .that would actually mean babies go to hell aborted babies as well with no chance for salvation.
Or as Paul washer and James white apparently believe all of our thoughts and sin even child and infant rape was determined band brought to 9ast casually with no other option possible by God himself before creation and cannot be changed .. not that's a demonic theology or rather gnosticism.
Which Augustine and his murderer worshipper John Calvin mixed with Christianity to creat a new systematic theology that some unfortunately are calling the doctrines of grace when it is anything but should be called the gnostic gospel of reprobates.
Christians even some Calvinist have different views on this.
.some believe once you are saved, you lose free will, and cannot fall away from that salvation and apostatize, even though the bible warns against doing just that, that and instructs us to restore those that have fallen away from the faith.
.Jesus even says we can know the last days as then many in the faith will fall away from the faith, and yes we should attempt to restore them with loves, teaching rebuke etc.
And Jesus was talking to believers when he said this.
Judgement starts at the house of the Lord, we often look at the world and think my are they evil that mean Jesus may be coming back soon, but actually it's when those in the faith fall away from the faith as we are seeing world wide right now as the church is not only accepting the world in it is promoting the world over Christ mixing the holy with the profane..
That were judgement begins.
The world is naturally supposed to be evil, not the church.
In short God allows through his holy grace all men to be saved, not forced fir some and withhold salvation from others.
.this way his judgement is not forced or withheld unfairly and man is responsible and truly guilty or truly believing in God not by force irresistible but by God given free will like our father Adam and mother eve.
And once saved you do not lose your ability to walk away from God for the world, in fact many do, and of those many are restored but not all, our job is to help restore them instead of claiming they were never saved, which is something only Jesus can know not us we can only see the outside actions
Jesus sees the heart and can restore those who have been saved and fallen away like the prodigal son while they yet live, they could also just have backsliden and or blame God for a lost love one family financial problems etc temporarily but still believe and just need time and encouragement to come back home to their father who will not turn them away.
Never tell someone they were never saved, because only Jesus has that power, although I hear christians claim this about those who fall away.
Now there are also believers who believe once saved you can never fall away from the faith once saved always saved doctrine which by definition means once lost always lost would also have credibilty
Remember.sometimes people leave only temporarily from the faith.
Only to come back later with the words you were never saved to begin with still fresh in their minds from so call christians and friends.
.again only Jesus knows that.
We can all agree only Jesus saves not us in any way.
And how has God decided to do that.. by his grace not ours by his son's sacrifice and blood not ours.
God has given all mankind a conscious knowing right from wrong and the gift of faith which can be used by all to believe in him or reject him the faith in itself does not save you, or condemn you whether you choose to believe in Allah Satan or Jesus, it is just a gift a tool all humans possess by God decree to allow them to deny themselves knowing they cannot save themselves and putting their faith 8n the only 8ne with the power to save them Jesus Christ by free will, again the faith does not save, the one they have faith in dies save that Jesus Christ.
.so please never claim the false straw men that we or any traditional Christian that I know of believe we save ourselves.
We have assurance of salvation by our belief in Jesus Christ the holy Ghost correcting and comforting us God chastising us, the fruit of the spirit and the many blessings God gives us as he has predestined all those believers in him in Christ our justification, sanctification, and soon glorification .eph 1:1
Thanks for highlighting this. It is interesting how sometimes one’s theology hits up against a reality that is very personal and emotional. I know someone who strongly argued about losing salvation, and was convinced Hebrews teaches that if someone turns away there is no possibility of a return. Then, shortly after, the same preacher shared how his son had wandered away from God; so, we were asked to pray he would return to God. I’m glad this real situation trumped his theology, and I understand his son has now come back ‘home’.
You can loose salvation. Even Warren believes in that. Hebrews teaches that. A person might reach a point like pharoah where he has hardened his heart
If we were able to lose our salvation we would, no doubt, the flesh is weak even though the spirit is willing. It is God who has placed His seal of ownership on us and He will keep us till our day of redemption. A supernatural act of regeneration cannot be done by human hands, stands to reason it cannot be undone by human hands. How does one become unregenerated? How does a new creature, from which the old has passed away, become the same old creature again? Where is it written that a person that has been baptized into the Body of Christ, predestined to be adopted in the future, be lost? Those who come to be in Christ has only one final destination, Jesus is the author and finisher of our faith!
Like Paul said, test yourself to see if Christ is truly in you, lest you be found counterfeit.
The issue is not whether someone can be lost, but whether someone is truly saved.
That Hebrews stuff was what led me down a road of examining catholicism when I came back to Christianity 2.5 years ago. Have made peace with it now but don't really know why!
Thank for showing how contradictory Calvinism is! Keep up the fight for truth Warren🙌🏻
Calvinism seems to just assume that control is the highest display of sovereign power. As someone waiting for a prodigal, I will tell you what the Lord has said to me personally. Instead of cultivating a controlling spirit toward anyone, how about I humble myself and cultivate room for the Spirit’s presence and influence in my own life and heart so especially my children will have the best possible chance of meeting Jesus personally. “Pursue peace with all people, and holiness, without which no one will see the Lord:” Hebrews 12:14
Amen
Along the same lines as Lawson.....Someone once tried to tell me that you can tell who the reprobate are by "their fruits." Sometimes the Calvinist thinks he's judge and jury.
Wow! Imagine your child popping like bacon in a frying pan for all eternity. Those who believe this are without "natural affection. "
Another to the Point Video Warren...How can Calvinist Continue with this Insanity? One must wonder whether or not there is a Rubber Room in Heaven? The Truth is these men Teaching Calvinism really piss me off...Never give an inch to these Piety Twisters.
I have never really delved deeply into the things of Calvinism. I only have a surface understanding. What heartbreaking implications the theology would have when it comes to the parent whose child has wandered. Is there a distinction between one who is reformed and one who is Calvinist? I always clumped them together, but recently I heard there is a difference.
Calvinists use Reformed synonymously. However, Lutherans are Reformed but not Calvinist... essentially Reformed is a closer synonym of Protestant. In this sense even certain Anabaptists could be called Reformed, while clearly not Calvinist.
@@IdolKiller Thank you for your quick reply.
Their adherents do make distinctions between the two, however they have so much in common, it seems largely opinion as to whether or how much of a difference there is.
@@IdolKiller That's true, as Anabaptists come from the Radical Reformation, which is still part of the Reformation.
@@AndrewKeiferAll 5 points bleed into each other. I heard it said once that the P in TULIP is the roof held up by the other 4 walls.
Why is the funniest thumbnail also the hardest to laugh at.....Well done, though.
Once again, great content here. Time and time again, we find that the best rebuttal of Calvinism is using their own words. The inherent implications of Calvinism are abhorrent to a Holy God, who truly desires the repentance and salvation of all His children, without exception. Keep up the good work.
I guess the parent should be glad that their child will glorify God by his damnation. This to them is a righteous and loving God
God will lift the just 70 × 7. Jesus Christ paid the price. When a sheep leaves the group, you go look for It. And you don't beat it up, you don't torture it. You bring it back with love and take care of it.
That Jonathan Edwards quote is crazy, what is the context to it? Is it really as wild as it sounds?
Best picture ever!!
That's what always bothered me and what I found repugnant in this theology. There's always the secondary script, the true script, running in the background of their accommodative teaching and language that really makes it all seem disingenuous.
Trophy of grace, my ass.
It seems like Proverbs 22:6 should be considered an absolute promise under Calvinism. If it is God who is deciding how parents will train their children, then it doesn't make sense that he would allow for the possibility that good training would result in them departing from the faith.
Can anyone explain how creating a person for the purpose of eternal torment brings glory to God?
The gentleman quoted:
Proverbs 22:6
Train up a child in the way he should go,
And when he is old he will not depart from it.
Dr. Doug Stewart of Gordon Conwell College was on a translation committee and challeged the translation of this verse. He submitted that the verse is better translated that a child's character is formed by the kind of home the child is reared in. If the home is dysfunctional, the child will be dysfunctional. The leaders of the translation committee conceded that this was true. However, because parents have been encouraged for years by the way it was translated, they were not going to change it.
🙏✝️Amen
According to SL, every parent is to live in life long anguish & torment as to whether their child is one of the elect...talk about a double whammy added to Calvin's 'doomed from the womb' 🤯
The more I hear these arrogant, know it alls, reformed 'theologians' the more convinced I get that these false teachers are evil and do not consider them Christian. Why? Because they ascribe to our Loving, Gracious and forgiving Heavenly Father things that Satan has done and desires to do, send everyone to Hell. May the Lord Jesus crush this heresy so more people come to know and hear the real Gospel. For God is NOT WILLING that anyone perish, BUT ALL, come to repentance. How can anyone possible misread this verse. I despise reform/Calvinism doctrines!!!
I struggle in this area as well. God knows their motives and reasoning and will judge them accordingly. Some may well be intentional in their deceiving others, while some may be victims who have been deceived themselves. This is why only God can fairly judge men. In the meantime I just note the problems and try my best to point folks to Christ.
@@IdolKiller I really see what you’re saying here Warren and I would not go so far as the person in this comment to call every Calvinist theologian arrogant and evil BUT as I’ve mentioned before, judgement calls need to be made unless we want to ignore the instructions from 2 Corinthians 11:4 and Galatians 1:9. I believe everything we do needs to be in love and although I leave room for some Calvinists to actually be saved and know and love the true God, I think the Church needs to drastically change their acceptance of calvinism (which means the acceptance of those who adhere to it and/or preach it- CalvinISTS) and start trusting God in His judgement of this type of deep error. Although many calvinists could be a nice person and be very sincere in their faith and take the Bible very seriously that does not automatically mean that they are born again. I’m not interested in being the judge of everyones eternal soul but if someone is part of a 5 point movement which ALSO includes determinism and prefaith regeneration this is a massive stumbling block to knowing Christ and is super damaging to the body of beleivers and not to mention those who have not yet believed. I really do not believe that the early church would stand for these type of heresies and so easily call those who adhere to it “brother” and “sister” out of fear of being divisive. Even I, who was never a Calvinist, but had a couple “calvinistic” type of beliefs was greatly hindered by these false views so I can’t imagine what a hinderance embracing full on all 5 points and all the other garbage that goes along with it would do to someones life! I believe those who are CONSISTANT hard determinist Calvinists are very far gone and have hardened their heart and calloused their minds… I do not think most of those who are more “compatabilist Calvinists” have done that kind of spiritual damage to themselves and some might be saved but a QUESTION MARK is rightfully there as to if they are a Christian because they reject the things that make Christianity Christianity believing such a deep array of unbiblical doctrines that effect the lens of the whole Bible, Gods character, and the gospel. I think this is righteous judgement to judge self proclaiming “Christians” by their beliefs when such beliefs are so vast and so core to the very basics of Christianity. There are tons of nice people who are very sincere and take their belief in God very seriously but they are not saved bc they are from a complete different religion. They are perhaps closer to God than a hardened atheist who willfully rejects all form of reason and truth but that doesn’t mean they are currently right with God. That’s how I feel about this Calvinist issue. I do not think we can so easily separate Calvinists from calvinism because calvinism is a belief system formed up of PEOPLE. I do recognize that we CAN blanket statement say that CalvinISM is evil and demonic and we can’t make that kind of blanket statement of CalvinISTS, but I don’t think that means that we can so easily COMPLETELY separate the ism from the adherents of the ism. Galatians 1:9 and 2 Corinthians 11:4 I think agrees).
Sorry for such a long response but I think this is a very important topic that can easily get misunderstood.
@@Loves2HugItOut Well said. As I met more and more Calvinists in the passed couple of years ( we attended one without being aware of it because they remained open during covid) I began to realize that many, if not all, of them had actually encountered the Lord through what seemed to me, a genuine 'born again' experience BUT, in there youthful zeal as new believers, some reformed Calvinist would introduce this doctrine of 'election' and what new babe in Christ would not fall for this heresy because they love the Lord, feel forgiven but are told that they had 'nothing to do' with their coming to Faith, their decision to believe and follow The Lord was really not theirs and then, begins the indoctrination of Reformed theology! I know many are genuine but have given their critical minds over to others who are seemingly 'smarter'. God have mercy on these wolves.
WM, these have been great. The HC parodies & these truthers.
HC?
@@DrGero15 Honest Calvinist videos
Great video, sir. How do Calvinists have any hope for their loved ones?
One of your best for sure!
Nothing here that a Calvinist can refute because you are just plainly stating thier beliefs 👌
Blessings from Finland. Have Ben Witherington, just great book out; Sola scriptura.
From one Warren to another let me say “great video” on an important topic. Ultimate Reconciliation is a doctrine which can give all parents hope. Calvinism twists scripture on what it means to be “elect.” It is about service not salvation.
God’s unconditional election is one link in the unbreakable chain of salvation seen in Romans 8:28-29: “For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.” All those who are predestined will be saved (John 6:39; Romans 8:30) because they are the ones that God the Father gives to Jesus Christ (John 6:37) who will raise them up on the last day (John 6:39; John 17:2). They are Christ’s sheep (John 10:1-30) who hear His voice and for whom He died (John 10:15) in order to give them eternal life and make them secure forever in the hand of God (John 10:26-30).
At the Areopagus on Mars Hill where there were many stone statues of the Greek Gods who in reality had no eyes that could see, tongues that could speak, or ears that could not hear there was a monument to an unknown god. The apostle Paul wanted to introduce the philosophers in the Areopagus to the God who created all things. Lawsons god is one of those Greek statues, the only difference between Lawson and the Greeks is that Lawson has limited his Greek god to only one god, that is most likely influenced by the one God of the Bible.
Question: Are Calvinist, who have a corrupt soteriological belief, therefore believing in a contrary/different gospel, really saved/born again?
The doctrine is absolutely anti-Christ. However, people generally don't operate so cleanly... they can mentally assent to false doctrines but practically live out the truth.
I can't separate the wheat from the chaff, but I can point out false teaching. I can certainly have concern over the deceived, especially given their fruit.
@@IdolKiller So, is it our beliefs in the true Jesus or our actions of following his commandments that saves us? If I believe A that is false but I act in way B that satisfies his commandments, am I truly saved? What if I believe A that id true but act in way B that is against his commands, am I saved?
IMHO… The reason fully 66% of current Christian youth group members will leave the faith within 18 months of high school graduation is because they have been thoroughly taught WHAT to believe but not taught WHY… Our belief & trust is evidenced… Sadly, almost no parent & few pastors have any notion of basic apologetics… As a result , when a young person goes to college & meets a Bart Ehrman in a lecture hall or on the web, they get blown out of the tub…
It’s outrageous that most have never gone through or been led through the Bible front to back
You cannot be a consistent Calvinist and tell someone that they OUGHT to do anything. Rebuke, admonishment, teaching, all of these are essentially meaningless to an absolutely consistent Calvinist.
Most Calvinists are inconsistent.
Of course the Calvinist will hear this and say that you are man centered because you believe everyone has the ability to believe the gospel message
That's the common response
Ephesians 1:4, Romans 9:22, Exodus 9:12, Exodus 14:4, Psalms 115:3
What would a non Calvinist say to a parent whose child is wayward?
Which is why I say that Calvinism, of all the systems, has the least assurance of salvation. I don't know why Calvinists claim the opposite.
Ooooo myyyy this thumbnail 😂
If your child goes into the world. The greatest commandment can bring him back its love. Remember who are your friends, And leaders real Christians or bunch of baboons? Remember, it's a personal relationship with Christ To be humble Remember you were there once. Jesus Christ died for everyone.❤
Wait wasn't Lawson at the HCC (honest calvinist conference)? I guess outside of that its ok to not be quite so honest.
This is the Steve Lawson from our Earth... not Earth 1689
Paul prayed for the "salvation" of the Israel that didn't receive Christ. Rom10:1-3. Parents can do the same. Sadly consistent calvinists preach the opposite.
*"We cannot coerce them into the kingdom... we can't manipulate them into the Kingdom..."* no but you certainly can manipulate and coerce them out of the Kingdom by teaching them this Abomination called Calvinism and ensure they don't enter in because they reject the real God Almighty because they confuse Him with the false characterization of God presented to they by Calvinists...
I have to wonder how many souls have been lost because because these Calvinist blasphemers misrepresent God Almighty. It's so frustrating...
This is not the only bad side effect. A worse side effect in my opinion, is that many of the former Calvinists who turn athiest then turn into some of the most vile Anti-Christian and anti-thiest commentators on the internet.
Calvinism's ability to create anti-Christians is unparalleled.
Man, the more I hear it the less it makes sense,
So train the children in the ways of the Lord not knowing if they are the elect and when they are older they will not depart from it unless they were predestined to damnation 🤔
At 09:05 the guy says that "a gracious Father will receive" the prodigal who returns home. I don't understand. How does it require any grace to receive home someone that you have foreordained would come home anyway? If a person is "of the elect" and predestined to believe, then why should the angels celebrate their conversion if that conversion was guaranteed to happen? Isn't that sorta like a person gets all excited that a boxer wins the match when in actuality the outcome was already determined because you poisoned the opponent's food to make them weak and sick? Or how about in a banana republic when they claim to have an honest election when actually they stuffed the ballot box to ensure they win? How can you be excited about the outcome of a contest when you were simply an expert at cheating to get the outcome you wanted?
I was one of those children. PK to be exact. I knew just enough to give other Christians fits about their faith. The Lord answered my questions and brought me back to the faith through Calvinism
@ManassehJones I do not know if you're talking to me? But I am still part of the Calvinist cult
@@ManassehJones Calvinism is just one system in interpreting scripture
"Brought me back to the faith through Calvinism" So sad. Why not be brought to faith in Jesus through the teachings of the New Testament?
Then your lost and traded the Truth for a lie
@@Brian_L_A What are you talking about? That was all part of the process. It was the Calvinist interpretation of the teachings of the New Testament
honest calvinist answer “rejoice oh parent that god has chosen you to suffer for his glory, and your child to burn forever in the eternal monument to his holy wrath. without your suffering and your reprobate child’s suffering, god could not be fully glorified. thank you for your service”
On Calvinism you're living in some sort of make believe world where all actions and thoughts are not really your own or those of other people. It is very hard to operate and thrive in this kind of cerebral prison. Reality is totally distorted.
So true they make a human parent look more loving than God Who is love!! hmm BIG problem..
1 John 4:16 NKJV - And we have known and believed the love that God has for us. God is love, and he who abides in love abides in God, and God in him.
I've always thought that is one of God’s characteristics that seems to also be twisted within calvinism🌻
Bro keep making these videos destroying these filthy disgusting doctrines
Dr. Steve Lawson, president and founder of OnePassion Ministries, from the Ligonier Ministries' 2009 National Conference, The Holiness of God containing his address, "The Legacy of John Calvin" given on the occasion of the 500th anniversary of John Calvin's birth:
"Rightly has one contemporary author identified John Calvin as the man of the millennium, meaning he is the single greatest influence upon modern history over the last thousand years. I would agree with that, in fact, I would push it out further and say that Calvin is the man of the last two millennia, that you would have to go all the way back to the days of the biblical writers, to Paul and to John, in order to see one who towered above history and has left such a dominant influence. It is almost impossible to overstate the importance and the legacy of John Calvin. William Cunningham, the Scottish divine, said 'Calvin was by far the greatest of the Reformers. Calvin is the man who, next to St. Paul, has done most to mankind.' And no less than Charles Haddon Spurgeon, the prince of preachers, said 'Among all those who have been born of women,' and that pretty much covers the field, 'among all those who have born of women, there has not been risen a greater than John Calvin. No age before him ever produced his equal and no age afterwards has seen his rival.' As a result, S.M. Houghton has written 'It has been said that to omit John Calvin from the history of Western civilization is to read history with one eye closed.' These are among the estimates of Calvin's life and ministry and his place in history, and so the question before us now is 'What is his legacy? Calvin stood at the headwaters of the Reformation and we now stand downstream, and what has flowed downstream to us from the pulpit, the study and the pen of John Calvin?'"
[ 0:58 - 3:21 of the youtube video Steve Lawson: The Legacy of John Calvin; /watch?v=xx1g5WfM6Xw ]
I appreciate what you do by exposing the heresies of Calvinism, but that MUSIC has to go! 🙉
Which music?
@@IdolKiller while you are talking, the “hold music” is too loud and distracting… And the thrash rock in the intro music and inserted throughout your vids for impact is probably not the best choice, IMO. I know you cut your teeth on NIN, but I don’t believe most of your listeners want to listen to that kind of music - especially while they’re in “learning mode” of Biblical truth. It makes my heart pound, always has… But I just wanted to share my thoughts. I have had ppl tell me before on Social media that my background music was too loud, even when it’s just instrumental Christian music. Hope this is helpful, brother. Keep up the good work! 👊🏼📖🗡️🔥
I'll go back to hip hop beats 😅
@@IdolKiller 😅👊🏼