Indeed... Hagler 2 - 10 - Leonard? it's a joke. This "Judge", Jose Guerra, has got some serious questions to answer for. His so-called integrity is definitely up for debate. He gave the final round to Hagler only because it didn't matter this point.... Was he on the take? No, because boxing is such a clean sport right! Nah, this was an injustice - but this is the world we live in (and sadly, there are many. many worse injustices).
Mike Up Agreed. That one card illustrated some clear myopathy from that judge. Leonard fought a great fight but the standard was missed as far as the rule to follow whenever a championship title is on the line. The challenger has to meet the burden of proving and fulfilling a clear victory against a champion without dispute. This was a title fight! This would be the equivalent to Ali being declared the winner of the first Frazier fight (which although almost killed Frazier) when it was apparent in that fight that Ali did not meet that burden to score the championship. This fight did not demonstrate that Leonard effectively 'took' the belts away from Hagler and this comment is coming from the biggest Ali and Leonard fan you could find :)
Right I mean come on I think that in the fight of the century Sugar Ray Leonard was either a four or five round and the crowd booed like crazy and this guy clearly took a payoff or in case there was some controversy in the fight now it would have been a draw I think if you were one of the judges and I would have I would have given the fight to Hagler I score of the harder punches much higher than Sugar Ray's little pitty-pat
@@connshawnery6489 That's not how boxing is scored. There is no "champions advantage" or you have to "take the title from the champ" as people like to say. Once that first bell rings, there is no mythical champion's advantage. The 4 main scoring criteria remain the same: clean punching, ring generalship, effective aggression, and defense. Whoever does those things better or more of those things better wins the round.
I have to give you massive respect for your general boxing knowledge, your ability to recognize your own biases, and your willingness to admit when you may be/were wrong. That's an excellent combination of traits to have. I really do hope that one day you'll be in a position to judge fights IRL, or at least provide commentary. You have the right voice for it, and your love for the sport is blindingly obvious. You have a great channel my dude, keep at it!
I actually scored the fight as I watched it. Same result in my eyes for Hagler. Our bias could also be reflected in the mindset that as Champion, Hagler needed to be given that respect in a close decision. Marvelous had been given no respect in so many ways in his career, he fought through it all, integrity intact. RIP to my greatest of all time.
No such thing as that false narrative that the challenger has to win rounds that don’t exist if the challenger won 7 rounds in a 12 round bout with no point deductions or knockdowns then the challenger wins. Each round should be judged separately and be based on clean and effective blows that actually land to the body or head simple.
I am 77 yrs old and still a diehard Hagler fan. Living on Cape Cod I saw him sparring in Provincetown. Met him at a road race. He was a “gentle” man. He was not a showman. He never liked fighters that belittled their opponents. Showboating tarnished the greatness of both Leonard and Ali. Seeing MM in person was a treat. He truly was Marvelous. May he RIP.
J rematch would have been a waste of time,hagler was done.Leonard wouldn’t have faced a prime hagler,he knew hagler was fading.Hagler would have been worse in a rematch
Hagler. Remember watching this and I just knew he was going to get robbed. Hagler was one of the greatest fighters in history and I feel he still doesn't get the respect he deserves.
Leonard and Ali lives in Tyson Fury. If hagler was the contender then he lost pure and simple. But hagler wa not the contender. Rather he was a way too cautious stalker.
I agree with Rummy. It was a close fight that you could legitimately score either way. What people should really discuss is why Hagler gave away the first three rounds with that ridiculous strategy of fighting orthodox? Hagler has only himself to blame for that loss.
Duran Leonard 1 is the first fight my dad took to to watch with him and his buddies in one of their garages. Felt like man even though I was like 14. I miss my dad so much, he gave me the Love of boxing.
I feel u there I grew up in 80z 90z lost my dad in 91 we used to watch alotta boxing he loved it when foreman came back he also loves hagler said he was by far the toughest boxer he's ever seen and he definitely thought hagler me to as I've rewatched that fight recently I've watched alot of old matches lately and my dad has been right there on my mind I miss him I was only ten when he died and now my mom is gone I miss him that much more I can still hear him yelling at tv when this fight ended he was so ready to go beat the hell outta the judges lol he never got to see foreman get that title back he woulda been so dam happy when he seen that srry just really relate boxing and my pops and got alil nostalgic there for amin
The bitter irony is that Hagler's camp vetoed a British judge (due to what had happened in London after Hagler beat Minter) and asked for a Mexican judge, hoping that judge would reward aggression. The British judge says that he watched the fight on TV and scored it for Hagler. Maybe he was just running salt in Hagler's wounds, but still...
I know this is a year late after your comment, however, this comes on the news that MMH has passed and I believe you are right this isn't slander but that judge is a fool 118/110? Do you think it was because the flashy 80s dreamboat could make more money for them than the hardworking machine? RIP MARVELOUS MARVIN HAGLER 🙏❤️🥊🥊
Y'all are trippin. Hagler was the champ and he was the one controlling the center of the ring coming forward. If anything, it was HAGLER who should have been getting the benefit of the doubt in the close rounds, not the challenger Leonard who was landing softer punches and clinching a bunch. Sugar Ray was the better fighter pound for pound, but he did not do enough to TAKE the belt. Same as the second Canelo vs. GGG fight. Canelo did well but he did not do enough to warrant taking the belts from an undefeated champion.
Hey HDmex...i just wanted to drop you a line n say i agree that with you. Blatant example of a boxing judge going on a very nice vacation a week after that fight if you know what i mean. What a fight though man. Respect n peace to you
HDmex's Instant Replay then YOU say which rounds Hagler won. I watched it live without sound and was kinda sad immediately when it ended bc I thought Hagler won 3 rounds at most. You 118-110 haters need to learn how fights are scored!
Always thought Leonard sort of "stole" rounds with those flurries of punches. This analysis is more nuanced than mine could ever be. Two great and very different boxers. Could only imagine how much they would've made today. R.I.P. Marvelous Marvin Hagler.
Hagler won Edit* Also. The smoking gun for me is the amount of warnings richard steele issued to leonard for holding. If i recall it was like 20 times lol.
You are correct! “You’re holding Ray!, Quit holding Ray!, Ray you’re holding! Quit holding Ray!” Over and over from ref Richard Steele. As Leonard hooked him around the neck and burying right to Hagler’s face.
I was only born in 2001. But this channel is the best boxing channel by far! Just a dude making whatever historical or modern boxing videos that he wants!! Somehow still captures the dramatic feeling of big fights with his tone of voice. I’ve never enjoyed history more. Love you Rummy!
Nice video. Kudos for recognising and acknowledging your own biases and how it could possibly affect in to your own scoring. Also agree it was a judging nightmare with so many rounds being so close.
Joel O I think that was the biggest difference in the fight. He gave away those first three rounds. If he wins two of those three, Guerra’s score card becomes a non-issue.
This brings back memories of my father and I when I was a kid working with him. He would talk to me about fights he'd seen at the LA Forum, the LA Sports Arena, the Olympic Auditorium with my uncles. Ruben Olivarez, Alfonso Zamora, Carlos Zarate, Carlos Palomino, Pipino Cuevas, Salvador Sanchez the entire '70s LA fight scene. The only American fighter he liked and was never critical of was Marvin Hagler. And so every time we were painting, gardening, sweeping boxing was all we'd talk about and when he brought up this fight he would say, "Cabrones se la robaron!". "***** they robbed him!" He always said they robbed Hagler. I think Hagler won but it wasn't the blow out robbery my father made it out to be but that lopsided judge sure does make the robbery seem legit, though.
Yup, and as the Sports Illustrated boxing writer observed, Hagler's head wasn't really in the pre-fight mental game. Uncharacteristically, Hagler was goofing around, looking like he was desperately trying to seem nonchalant, but it came across as forced and awkward. It took him until the middle of the fight to get his usual relentless assault together. By then Leonard was tiring, but had built up a lead and had figured out how to play the spoiler, mostly smothering Hagler's offense and stealing rounds in the final 30 seconds. But in highlight reels it's obvious Leonard lacked a bit of the spring in his step and snap in his punches after round 3, while Hagler never faded until maybe round 12 when he looked like he was at 95%. I've watched this bout at least a dozen times since the night it was fought, and every time I score it within a point -- sometimes for Hagler, sometimes for Leonard -- or a draw. As good as Rummy's highlight reel is, it still compresses time to the point that it underplays how effective Leonard was at thwarting Hagler. It was the kind of strategy that Bernard Hopkins built his entire latter career on, and often worked with the judges, even when fans didn't agree. Overall, though, no question that Hagler was the best champion of his era, a better and more dominant champion than Leonard against one of the strongest middleweight divisions in history, and always came physically prepared. Hagler's only lapses were mental and strategic, sometimes playing it too safe against guys like Antuofermo in their first bout, perhaps against Duran, and in his first losing matches against Willie Monroe (nobody seriously questioned that decision) and Bobbie Watts (controversial). Too many casual fans thought of Hagler as a slugger but he was a very slick boxer/puncher with every skill in the book, and fought smart. Maybe too smart. I have to wonder whether Hagler might have clinched the decision against Leonard by pushing past his comfort zone. But Hagler certainly respected Leonard's punching power and didn't want to be caught off guard by emptying the tank.
@@theparalexview785 That's a brilliant post there with some very good insights, and it's nice to hear it from an unbiased view. I'm glad you mentioned Haglers defeats and how controversial they were, he avenged these these losses and it's a pity Leonard never gave him the opportunity to maybe avenge this loss. Ah well, we'll just never know, take care.
Really enjoyed the format of this video, would love to see more close fights broken down like this. Especially the side by side view of all the scorecards
Hagler won the fight but was fighting not just Leonard, he was fighting the crowd in the arena who cheered anything Leonard did regardless of whether it landed or not and boxing back then still suffered from judges who liked to go with the big money earning fighter and none were bigger than Leonard in the 1980's. A lot of Leonard's punches hit arms and gloves and many were pit pat shots. Hagler won this bout but it was close.
You make a good point that I thought about years ago. I think Leonard did receive a lot of style points based on the crowd reaction. He clearly was the fan favorite that night and you know how an underdog can play to a crowd. I think this may have had some influence on the judges although that one judge's scorecard way in favor of Leonard was a bit ridiculous. Even Al Michaels at ABC would soon make a joke about him that year when he was broadcasting a fight on the network.
Brian Melvin yeah,Leonard would not have done it again.pitty pat punches in flurries in the last 30 seconds of each round.thats not affective punch scoring
Jerry Wolfe pitty pat punches? i’m pretty sure ure chin couldn’t take one. plenty of those flurries ended with strong rights that knock Hagglers head back. that ain’t pitty pat.
man I totally identify with u...i was 13 when Hagler fought Leonard and Hagler was my hero...I had the privilege to meet Marvelous at a mutual friend's anniversary where I had a chance to probe his mind..I found it refreshing that he legitimately still had bad feelings towards Leonard and understandably so.. at one point he wanted to show me what Leonard's punches felt like so he told me to hold up my forearm and then slapped it softly and told me that's what it felt like, "pitter patter all night!". I honestly think that Leonard as the Challenger did not do enough to take the fight.
tony Accardo - Hagler was a badass who got outboxed. The simple fact is this (and ask Hagler next time you see him) it wasnt even supposed to be close. Hagler has one of the best knockout percentages. He never ever really hurt Leonard. He could have knocked Leonard out and there would have been no dispute, right? If you leave it in the judges hands anything can happen and it was a close fight. That’s the golden rule. I watched the first Leonard/Hearns and Leonard said that he was losing the fight until he knocked out Hearns. Leonard admitted in the second fight that he lost that fight to Hearns. But he never said that about the Hagler fight. Noticed that there are no rounds that are 8 to 10. So even though Guerra’s card is way too generous for Leonard it’s not like he scored any rounds 8 pts for Hagler. And if Filippo scores one more round for Leonard we got a different scene dont we. Even Rummy disagreed with Filippo on one round. At that time everyone thought Hagler was invincible without weakness.
Timothy Duzenski during my conversation with Marvelous (Hawaii around 02'), he did say that the Mugabi fight took alot out of him and looking back, he maybe should've ended his career there but nevertheless he fervently believes he, being the aggressor, initiating the fight shouldve won. it hard to see it any other way when you hear it from the horses mouth. lol
@@scudger99 having JoJo Guerra as judge meant it was in the bag before it started...118-110 renders Ray's win meaningless, and I'd say the same if the 118-110 went Hagler's way
This fight was so fixed in Leonard`s favour it was laughable..I guess they thought Hagler was going to sign for a rematch..I just smiled when he didn`t and retired..I will always respect the Marvelous one for not buying into the circus
That comment is so ridiculous it's laughable. It was a close fight and it was close because Hagler decided to give away the first three rounds. If you think Hagler won a close fight, I have no problem with it. Anybody who thinks Leonard won a close fight, there's a lot of justification for it. No way anybody can call the fight fixed because that would mean Hagler participated in the "fix" giving away the first three rounds with his stupidity. I think we all can agree that 118-110 Leonard is crazy but calling the fight fixed is nonsense.
Mistachill the more one examines this the more it becomes obvious Leonard did not win. Even his ring strategy was fools gold designed to trick the judges rather than beat his opponent. He danced, had his brother yell thirty signaling thirty seconds left, then flurried meaningless showy love taps on Hagglers gloves that wowed an ignorant crowd. He admitted this was a strategy to steal rounds. It was fools gold.
First time I've tried to score the fight and I gave it to Sugar. That was like 5 years ago. Now I have it as a draw. But I'm not even sure. My God you're right, this fight is really a nightmare to decide.
It only seems difficult because you are still drinking that Sugar Ray cool-aid. The media gave him to you and told you he was great. One day you may begin to think for yourself.
Those first few rounds unorthodox came back to haunt Hagler at fight's end. Besides that, Leonard was step a few seconds quicker and more efficient. Right decision.
On the legendary nights doc, it was even stated by Leonard himself that he would try and steal as many rounds as he could by throwing flurries at the last 30 seconds of each round. They weren’t necessarily effective, but it did it’s job as eye candy for the judges.
It is an unfortunate fact, boxing is a part of show business, presentation unfortunately counts almost as much as talent. Ray knew this, he knew he couldn’t hurt Hagler, but he could impress the judges with speed and flash. Perception is reality, and Ray gave the perception that he could hit Hagler at will, flurry him off the ropes, and flurry the last 30 seconds of the round because he knew that flashy speedy moves catch the eye, and it tends to be the stuff you remember. Hagler pressed the fight, Ray ran the entire fight. If hagler had just walked to the center of the ring and stood there and waited for Ray and not chased him, there would have been no fight. It’s irritating to me as a fight fan that judges give points for running. Rather than points for pressing the fight. I do think it was a robbery. Not because what Ray did wasn’t impressive, indeed, Ray had been retired for some time, came out of retirement, no tune up fight, nothing, just jumped right in, no, it was more so because of the obvious sell out of the one judges score card. That guy was bought and paid for. I could see if they gave it to Ray only by a couple of points, an argument could be made either way, but that was just blatant. Hagler has never gotten the respect he deserves
Everytime i watch this fight i score it differently. Most recently i scored it 115 to 113 for the marvelous one. But there is no way it was 118 to 110 for leonard. Or either for the record
Hagler was one of my favorite fighters of all time. I think he will always be ONE of the most underrated GOAT. Having said that, the fight was so close man. I think Hagler edged it as well but it was so close. If there had been a timely rematch I think the Marvelous one would have proven without doubt who the better fighter was. Too bad we didn't and never will get to see that. I like and respect Sugar Ray Leonard but the way he backed out of fighting Hagler years earlier and waited until he believed Marvin was past his prime.... Well it was all tactical genius of course but seems a little unbecoming for a fighter. But all in all they were both Great and Awsome fighters in a Great and Awsome era.
AHH I see...."Leonard was being dishonorable" by waiting for Hag to age? Oh okay. See I thought Leonard had BALLS OF STEEL for fighting the #1 P4P Ko MONSTER while MOVING UP in weight and after a FIVE YEAR LAYOFF and baffling the usually implacable Hagler. Hagler's piston-jab was barely present. Where were his leaping combos punctuated with his always damaging body attack? Everyone cries about Marvin losing this one, which just mystifies me. Not one of them question his lack of attack/ferocity, his coming out deciding to go ORTHODOX (WTF!?!?!?) giving away 3 rounds automatically......etc.....Maybe people should look more at Marvin's performance because it was hardly close to his best work. I wanted Marvin to beat the pretty one, but his whole demeanor and effort just left me dazed. He didn't give his "110%" imo.
@@kevinmalone3210 Character? What did anything about that fight prove/disprove anything about Leonard's "character"? Moving up in weight after a 5 yr layoff to face an unbeatable champion? I say Hagler deserved what he got. It's like he thought he was going in against Hamsho again or something. No game plan whatsoever. Ray had a plan and stuck to it.
I was there, in row 26. During that weekend, I met a girl I knew from way back. We fell in love, and are still together thirty-two years later. It was the best weekend of my life.
@@cedriclashar8905 If you land he can't land. They both landed and Leonard destroyed a whole bunch of air and probably ruined Hagler's gloves. If you outpoint the champ barely with no major punches you are supposed to lose everytime.
run ? thats called boxing sir and in a boxing match you don't have to hurt your opponent to win just land more punches than him again this is called BOXING
I am devastated upon hearing this horrible news. Hagler was always one of my favorite boxers to watch and watching him box was like watching a work of art. He can fight going forward, going backward, and can switch stances. Hagler can box and punch. He was a complete boxer. Hagler will, and always be among the greatest middleweights of ALL TIME and will forever be among boxing's all-time greats. When you hear the great middleweight legends like Robinson, Greb, LaMotta, Ketchel, Burley, Monzon, you will always hear Hagler's name among them legends. Us fans will always appreciate the excitement and discipline that he brought to the sport, inspiring thousands of young boxers to take the sport. Hagler was a class act both in and out of the ring. I take my hat off to this great great legend Marvelous Marvin Hagler and he is truly MARVELOUS. Rest in power Champ!
Not so. Many of these rounds were razor thin close. No one dominated. Listen to Rummy- many rounds could have gone either way. 118-110 is entirely reasonable.
TheTruth Mayweather beat Castillo 7-5 with a broken hand but one card had Mayweather winning 10 rounds to 2 so they had a rematch where Mayweather won 9-3
Great video man. I had Leonard eeking out a decision.. however i haven't rewatched this fight in years. My dad had Hagler winning it. He didn't like the pit pat shots from Leonard. Ha
Lol, dad knows best! People all around me at the time were swayed by the pitty-pat shots thrown by Leonard, and as much as I still respected him, I just didn't feel he did enough to win the fight.
Today I was Blessed,... I definitely share your sentiment. I felt Leonard fought a great tactical fight with flashy less combination shots. Though they are points the telling and more meaningful shots were from Hagler. He pressed the fight while Leonard utilized crafty footwork to stay out of harms way. I had Hagler easily ahead though many were close rounds!!!
Thanks for another great video. Great fight, great era, great fighters! I love SRL but Hagler is definitely in my top 3 or 4 favorite fighters. I can watch this fight 100 times and I pick SRL 50 times and Hagler 50 times.
I have it 114-114 a draw. But I remember when I watched the fight live I thought Leonard clearly won. I do not think it was so much the flashy things as it was that he was the underdog and he performed better than expected against a favourite champion. This impressed the judges and they had a hard time remaining objective, with that said Hagler did neither win nor landed more nor do more damage. A draw 114-114 is how I scored it today after watching, still I can see how easy it was to get carried away in favour of Leonard at the time because Leonard outperformed expectations.
Kevin Hickin He was point fighting. No way Hagler wins this on points. It wasn't a robbery. Leonard landed more punches and kept running away from Hagler
The Strength Set Channel he didn’t get robbed don’t be dramatic it’s an extremely close fight with arguments for both sides, a robbery was ggg Canelo 1 or wilder fury or Lewis Holyfield 1 etc
ABSOLUTELY LOVED, ADMIRED AND APPRECIATED YOUR HONESTY AND TRANSPARENCY ABOUT THIS FIGHT Brother. SO MUCH SO THAT I HAD TO SUBSCRIBE TO YOUR CHANNEL. HATS OFF AND BIG SALUTE TO YOU FOR GREAT WORK AND A GREAT STORY ABOUT YOU BECOMING A HONORABLE BOXING FAN ✊🏾👑💯
The fact that this fight is still being analysed and discussed thirty-plus years later suggests, to me at least, that they were both winners that night. In spite of the judge's score-cards, at the conclusion of the bout, both fighters knew they had represented the sport of boxing like few others before them ever had. That night, in that ring, they shared the rarefied air of epic greatness. Fortunately for fans of the sport, that rare air seemed to predominate the Middleweight Class throughout, what I consider to be, a golden era of boxing.
Rummy! This has to be one of the best, if not THE best, analysis of this fight I have ever seen. I grew up next town over from Brockton, MA...and recall listening to Sports Huddle on Boston's WEEI radio every Sunday night. A very young Hagler on his way up used to sit in with the three radio hosts and take questions from fans, as well as absorb good natured barbs from the hosts, who had become his friends. This was in 1978-79, roughly. Hagler was so well spoken and decent, you could sense he was something special. We all followed him passionately in Boston...and marvelled at his spartan training camps out on the peak of Cape Cod in wintery Provincetown. Hagler was never going to let ANYONE outwork him. Anyway, all of that is context to my point that your analysis is excellent. All these years I felt Hagler was robbed. I could not see it objectively. Now, with your help, I can. Thank you. Happy Holidays!
Hagler was robbed, for one simple reason Leonard gave too little in attack to beat Hagler. Haggler was the aggressor all through the fight and was never in serious trouble. You are right about Leonard fighting the right fight against Hagler, but it was still an all defensive fight from Leonard bar the flurries. The flurries that looked good, but they were still defensive in nature. He never dented Haglers armour. This should have been a Hagler win.
Saw the fight again a couple of months ago on ESPN. Scored it for Hagler 115-113. Yes he was robbed in this fight because you can't have a judge score it 118-110 for Leonard, and basically take Hagler out of the running for the decision. Truly disgraceful scoring in a championship bout. By the way, you have the best channel on UA-cam, period.
Black Bull what rounds did Hagler clearly win? I watched it live without sound in 87 and immediately thought Hagler won only the 5th, 9th and maybe 10th. That’s it. I can’t stand you 118-110 morons! Learn how fights are scored before spouting nonsense
@@shawnmichael9503 Shawn, when two other judges score is 115 - 113 either way. It means the moron who does not question the 118-110 is the person who does not know anything about boxing.
This was one of the closest fights there's been in my opinion. I watched, and scored, the fight live - at which time I gave it to Haggler. However, I watched the fight again a few years later, this time scoring it for Leonard lol.
I used to repeatedly watch the Leonard vs Hagler Super Fight when I first started boxing at the age of 14! A friend of mine had it on video in the early 90’s !! We both loved watching it before leaving for the boxing gym!! Such an inspirational boxing match!
Is there a better way to score? When I saw the fight It always seemed like Hagler was dominating the centre of the ring and chasing a constantly running Leonard - who clinched when in trouble... and never seemed to put Hagler under any real threat. But Like Rummy I know shit about boxing! Great work and your accent adds so much gravitas to the content. Almost timeless quality to it. Have a good day.
Thats not How to Score a fight. Clean Punches EFFECTIVE Aggression Ring Generalship Defense Gotta score every aspect of both fighters performances, and decide what dominanted round by round. Leonarda ring Generalship dominated almost the whole fight. Thats not him just moving, but rather , him successfully choosing the right moments to Punch, because he knew where He was, where hagler was and what Hagler wanted to do. Their is alot that i havent mentioned, but itll be all day before i can try to full explain myself so i wont. It was a great and close fight, so, it can go both ways. ... Ive always had Leonard winning by very few rounds.
As a big Hagler fan back then I thought he was robbed, a draw would have seemed reasonable and the re match would have been dynamite ! Really enjoyed this round by round analysis and your honesty .... thanks Rummy 👍
I thought Hagler won the fight back then. Every time I have rewatched the fight I have still thought Hagler won the fight. I cannot see a way that Leonard won the fight, other than by fixing the judges (which that 110-118 indicates). However, I think a draw, Hagler retaining the belt, and a rematch probably would have been the best outcome for the sport, and would probably have held up over time. Saying Leonard won is always a suspect call that doesn't stand up against the evidence of the fight.
Boxing holds a special place in my heart because of my father too. I miss him dearly. I always wish he could have seen this channel. He would have loved it. Like I do. Great stuff Rum
Despite how atrocious Guerra's scorecard was I've never really had an issue with the official result. I thought it was an oddly flat performance lacking urgency by Hagler's usual standards, and Leonard's gamesmanship took advantage of that - Hagler played right into his hands. I've never really felt like Hagler deserved the win, and I'm saying that as someone who by and large likes Hagler as a fighter better than Leonard.
I thought that Hagler assumed (like most pundits going in) that Leonard would've run out of gas after a few rounds and he'd have just muscled him. Hagler could have easily won the fight and I think he threw away the first few rounds which cost him on the cards.
Sorry dude your dead wrong leonard sent mh into retirement cause he could not knock him out like he thought he would!! You hagler fans need a pacifier cause your poor loosers leonard took off 5 yrs and still beat him square and fair my buddy wasent happy hagler loss but at least he is honest and a good sport about it you guys are pathetic
hollow my butt. this is youtube revisit wishing hype. People know Sugar Ray came back and did just wtf he said he was gonna do. Put them paws on Marvin and take his belts. Yall can't take that away from him. Hagler needed a knockout to win and he couldn't knock Leonard out. RIP to him though. He was a great champion.
Excellent video! This was the first boxing match that I watched as a child. In fact this was the first thing I ever recorded on a VCR. Like you, I remember watching this fight with my old man and your commentary at the end brought chills. RIP to your father. -New Subscriber
I remember scoring it for Hagler very close when watching it live 15:50 all those years ago. That said, it’s not possible nor fair to try to score it accurately based on what’s a virtual highlight film. It’s fair to say, as most commenting have, that it was tough to score, extremely close, appropriately not unanimous, and not a robbery. Well done video and honest commentary Rummy!😊
@@edgiebraahhh7280 no it does not,the fight is also a boxing match.it's always boxing. If you win the fight by scoring the most meaningfull blow of the contest,GUESS WHAT?you're also winning the boxing match. This sentence doesn't make any sense.
You got it right!!! Hagler lost something against mugabi Hagler was also older then he said he was. Haglers face was so swollen after the mugabi fight. Any way you slice it hagler was old against Sugar Ray. Styles make fights. Hagler won a 15 round split decision against Roberto Duran Hearns KOs Duran in 2. Hagler KOs hearns in 3. Styles
Hi Rummy, new subscriber here. Like you I was and am a massive Marvelous Marvin Hagler fan. I watched the fight and wanted him to win so badly that later when the video came out, I hired it ( remember those days? ) and watched it over and over hoping somehow the ending would change. Then I got a four head video player with super slow motion and watched it again, this time counting landed punches, round by round in slow-mo. I had to give it to Sugar Ray 115-113. Oh, just to finish the story, many years later when the video shop closed down, they were selling all their old stock so I bought the tape. Cheers!
Two of my favorite fighters ever. Loved them both. Watched the fight numerous times and scored it several times over several decades. Don't know if my rounds are all the same because as you say, most are close , but every single time (including when I saw it live on TV) I score it a draw. That said, Leonard had glove size and especially ring size in his favor, size of ring combined with Leonard's footwork especially gave Hagler fits. Give both credit for massive heart. Great fight.
Looking back at this fight I must say that Leonard fought a smart fight. His superior footwork, instinctive counter punching and keeping Hagler's power at long range. Hagler couldn't really get off like he always did. Saying this, Sugar Ray still didn't do enough to take Hagler's belt. He clearly outsmarted Hagler in this fight, he wasn't reckless like Hearns was against Hagler. Sugar being more of a technician methodically finessed his way to survive against Marvelous Marvin, that's all he needed in order for boxing to monetize his name one more time to bring in the big bucks. Enough said , what happens in Vegas...Should stay in Vegas. In my eyes Hagler didn't lose this fight.
Love the channel, Rummy. I know this is an older vid, but I just went through a journey of Hagler's Career.. I've been a casual boxing fan but even if I was diehard, Hagler was a bit before my time.. As I get more into boxing, I was drawn to his fights.. such a professional and yes he did have a boxing ego but I never thought he was disrespectful or phony. Just had a healthy chip on his shoulder.. I also love that he trained in Provincetown, a place I still visit in the summer. Area is nice for tourists but so small too so it was pretty recognizable on video even 35, 40 years ago.. Anyway, I just finished this fight today. I actually gave Leonard a slight one point victory.. Now, I'm not a seasoned scorer by any means, but boxing is scored round by round and I thought Hagler gave away some early rounds and then lost some toss up rounds. I feel like the fight happens 5 years earlier and its a different story. Leonard didn't have the power to stop Hagler and Hagler would have gotten off quicker, been faster... Not saying he was done at this point, but if you watch his whole career, you know that he was surprisingly quick, and I don't think Leonard's dancing would be as effective against a faster Hagler. I agree that he was the aggressor but if you're aggressive but missing it doesn't really mean much to me. Leonard had a perfect game plan.. That said, I could easily score it a draw or a Hagler win.. Wasn't robbery but 118-110 is insane. Keep up the good work
Keep up the great work rummy, been watching your channel for awhile now...I’m huge boxing fan , but I became a fan in early 90’s, and mid 2000’s kinda lost the love , (didn’t follow as much ) stiil had love , but wasn’t paying attention to the rankings. Last 5 years, I’ve found the love back , and just wanted to thank you , for your hard work and great content ...side note ( your narrating, your voice works great , and your boxing knowledge, is outstanding) I enjoy your videos, plus I love the knowledge I’ve learnt from the past and years I didn’t follow. This is best boxing 🥊 channel ever.
Hey man I just wanna say every video u put up I’m watchin ASAP because of your intriguing way of defining the fight! Please make more brother u are awesome! 🙌🏻
Facts, do you know how huge and how much revenue a second fight would have generated. This could have been arguably the greatest trilogy that never was. I viewed it a draw also. There was no clear winner, chess at it's finest.
@@brianboyle4589 Leonard wouldn't have done the rematch because he got the victory and could have lost in the rematch. Leonard was smart and new Mugabe took a lot out of Hagler before this fight. Leonard also picked Duran for a rematch just after he was celebrating a victory as he knew Duran would gain weight partying. Same with Ali and Forman. Ali wasn't going to ever give Forman rematch as Forman knew the mistakes he made in there encounter. Forman knew this and that's why he left boxing. He had no where to go.
I’m a huge Hagler fan, as he was my favorite boxer as a kid in the 80’s. I still say Leonard won on a close decision. Hagler’s biggest mistake was coming out timid in the first 3 rounds instead of going right at Leonard. It gave Leonard confidence to find his groove and feel he could go toe to toe. Plus Hagler’s camp gave into many demands from Leonard’s camp agreeing to 12 rounds instead of 15, and a bigger ring so Leonard could move around more. My card was the same as Rummy except I gave Leonard Round 4 and 12, which gave him the decision.
Youre a smart boxing fan and are able to look at the fight objectively. It was very close, and Leonard probably wouldnt have made it to the finish had it been set for 15. I felt Leonard won, but wont argue with those who felt Hagler won.
I agree to an extent. I just rewatch this fight last week and yes he does give up some of the early rounds. However I always felt and still do feel that Hagler completely dominated the second half of the flight. Leonard mostly ran and was running on fumes trying to avoid a fight. I’m confused how you could give Leonard round 12? What did he do in the round? He threw punches mostly that landed on arms and danced around without engaging for basically three minutes.
I think it could flip either way, especially when it's live with no rewinds and you have to do it as it goes. That 118-110 score is horseshit and not reflective of the fight at all.
A_B B_A *Sugar Ray Robinson is considered the greatest Boxer Pound for Pound who was a middleweight. So that would automatically make him the greatest Middleweight.
Love the channel and loved this episode particular. Thank you for going into your love for Hagler and your attempt to be unbiased but also acknowledging how difficult that is. My dad was a huge Ali and Ray Leonard fan. It has always been almost impossible for me to be unbiased in their fights. Sometimes upon watch the reply I can be more even handed in the calling but it is difficult. Thanks again
Hagler pressed the issue and defended his title imo. That 118-110 card was a joke.
Indeed... Hagler 2 - 10 - Leonard? it's a joke.
This "Judge", Jose Guerra, has got some serious questions to answer for. His so-called integrity is definitely up for debate. He gave the final round to Hagler only because it didn't matter this point....
Was he on the take? No, because boxing is such a clean sport right!
Nah, this was an injustice - but this is the world we live in (and sadly, there are many. many worse injustices).
Mike Up Agreed. That one card illustrated some clear myopathy from that judge. Leonard fought a great fight but the standard was missed as far as the rule to follow whenever a championship title is on the line. The challenger has to meet the burden of proving and fulfilling a clear victory against a champion without dispute. This was a title fight! This would be the equivalent to Ali being declared the winner of the first Frazier fight (which although almost killed Frazier) when it was apparent in that fight that Ali did not meet that burden to score the championship. This fight did not demonstrate that Leonard effectively 'took' the belts away from Hagler and this comment is coming from the biggest Ali and Leonard fan you could find :)
Yep, Judge Jo Jo Guerra saw a fight that NOBODY else saw.
Right I mean come on I think that in the fight of the century Sugar Ray Leonard was either a four or five round and the crowd booed like crazy and this guy clearly took a payoff or in case there was some controversy in the fight now it would have been a draw I think if you were one of the judges and I would have I would have given the fight to Hagler I score of the harder punches much higher than Sugar Ray's little pitty-pat
@@connshawnery6489 That's not how boxing is scored. There is no "champions advantage" or you have to "take the title from the champ" as people like to say. Once that first bell rings, there is no mythical champion's advantage. The 4 main scoring criteria remain the same: clean punching, ring generalship, effective aggression, and defense. Whoever does those things better or more of those things better wins the round.
R.I.P THE MARVELOUS ONE !!!!!! Mr Marvin Hagar . You are loved by us real boxing fans and will be missed . Thanks for all the great memories.
Hagler 6 rounds to 5 with 1 even
I have to give you massive respect for your general boxing knowledge, your ability to recognize your own biases, and your willingness to admit when you may be/were wrong. That's an excellent combination of traits to have. I really do hope that one day you'll be in a position to judge fights IRL, or at least provide commentary. You have the right voice for it, and your love for the sport is blindingly obvious. You have a great channel my dude, keep at it!
Well said.
I thought it was a draw champ keeps the belt
Agreed!
I actually scored the fight as I watched it. Same result in my eyes for Hagler. Our bias could also be reflected in the mindset that as Champion, Hagler needed to be given that respect in a close decision. Marvelous had been given no respect in so many ways in his career, he fought through it all, integrity intact. RIP to my greatest of all time.
@ Neil Worsfold very well said
No such thing as that false narrative that the challenger has to win rounds that don’t exist if the challenger won 7 rounds in a 12 round bout with no point deductions or knockdowns then the challenger wins. Each round should be judged separately and be based on clean and effective blows that actually land to the body or head simple.
@@Falconesports2025 those flurry’s that Leonard hit him with should not count as effective punches 10 flurry’s should count at 1 normal punch
I am 77 yrs old and still a diehard Hagler fan. Living on Cape Cod I saw him sparring in Provincetown. Met him at a road race. He was a “gentle” man. He was not a showman. He never liked fighters that belittled their opponents. Showboating tarnished the greatness of both Leonard and Ali. Seeing MM in person was a treat. He truly was Marvelous. May he RIP.
I don't like the showman thing either but it's these guys that bring a pay day for everyone
Incredibly close fight, Hagler won both the fight and the decision in my eyes.118-110 is disgusting, too bad there was no rematch. Great video
J rematch would have been a waste of time,hagler was done.Leonard wouldn’t have faced a prime hagler,he knew hagler was fading.Hagler would have been worse in a rematch
J remind me of Canelo vs GGG score card
Lemon26 don’t overcharge..watch the fight again it was very close but hagler hits 1 time leonard hits3..the match acore changed after round 10 tho..
Yeh I agree, a rematch was needed
Efe cem Yılmaz alright I will watch it again
Hagler. Remember watching this and I just knew he was going to get robbed. Hagler was one of the greatest fighters in history and I feel he still doesn't get the respect he deserves.
Agreed. He's my favorite middle of all time
Hagler was a warrior my favorite fights to watch of all time are hagler fights
Agreed. Hagler is my favorite fighter of all time.
I agree, I think another criminally underrated boxer was Joe Calzaghe
I totally agree
Hagler. Leonard even said he threw flurries for the last 30 seconds of each round to catch the judges eye. All I know is Hagler didn't lose.
116-114 Hagler! Oscar De La Hoya stole that style as well...
You can actually hear Leonard's corner (Dundee) yell, "Thirty seconds!"at the end of each round.
Leonard and Ali lives in Tyson Fury.
If hagler was the contender then he lost pure and simple. But hagler wa not the contender. Rather he was a way too cautious stalker.
I agree with Rummy. It was a close fight that you could legitimately score either way. What people should really discuss is why Hagler gave away the first three rounds with that ridiculous strategy of fighting orthodox? Hagler has only himself to blame for that loss.
He did lose though
The first fight I remember watching was hagler vs herns. I miss my dad too..
Sorry to hear about ur dad :(
Duran Leonard 1 is the first fight my dad took to to watch with him and his buddies in one of their garages. Felt like man even though I was like 14. I miss my dad so much, he gave me the Love of boxing.
I feel u there I grew up in 80z 90z lost my dad in 91 we used to watch alotta boxing he loved it when foreman came back he also loves hagler said he was by far the toughest boxer he's ever seen and he definitely thought hagler me to as I've rewatched that fight recently I've watched alot of old matches lately and my dad has been right there on my mind I miss him I was only ten when he died and now my mom is gone I miss him that much more I can still hear him yelling at tv when this fight ended he was so ready to go beat the hell outta the judges lol he never got to see foreman get that title back he woulda been so dam happy when he seen that srry just really relate boxing and my pops and got alil nostalgic there for amin
Amen 🙏
I wish you the best.
The only question left is: How much did Guerra recieve and who paid him?
And who sold you a pair of really bad glasses?
The bitter irony is that Hagler's camp vetoed a British judge (due to what had happened in London after Hagler beat Minter) and asked for a Mexican judge, hoping that judge would reward aggression.
The British judge says that he watched the fight on TV and scored it for Hagler. Maybe he was just running salt in Hagler's wounds, but still...
Really! the most incompetent official ever!
I know this is a year late after your comment, however, this comes on the news that MMH has passed and I believe you are right this isn't slander but that judge is a fool 118/110? Do you think it was because the flashy 80s dreamboat could make more money for them than the hardworking machine? RIP MARVELOUS MARVIN HAGLER 🙏❤️🥊🥊
Exactly
Mr Marvelous Marvin Hagler, one of the sport's greatest warriors. R.I.P.
😢 RIP Marvelous
Guerra must have taken an envelope. Such a terrible score card.
HDmex's Instant Replay he was found guilty of it and banished to the sewers shortly after
Y'all are trippin. Hagler was the champ and he was the one controlling the center of the ring coming forward. If anything, it was HAGLER who should have been getting the benefit of the doubt in the close rounds, not the challenger Leonard who was landing softer punches and clinching a bunch.
Sugar Ray was the better fighter pound for pound, but he did not do enough to TAKE the belt. Same as the second Canelo vs. GGG fight. Canelo did well but he did not do enough to warrant taking the belts from an undefeated champion.
Look at the promoter,....it was all about a 2nd rematch fight and a bigger payday. Had Hagler gotten the right decision there is no rematch
Hey HDmex...i just wanted to drop you a line n say i agree that with you. Blatant example of a boxing judge going on a very nice vacation a week after that fight if you know what i mean. What a fight though man. Respect n peace to you
HDmex's Instant Replay then YOU say which rounds Hagler won. I watched it live without sound and was kinda sad immediately when it ended bc I thought Hagler won 3 rounds at most. You 118-110 haters need to learn how fights are scored!
Always thought Leonard sort of "stole" rounds with those flurries of punches. This analysis is more nuanced than mine could ever be. Two great and very different boxers. Could only imagine how much they would've made today. R.I.P. Marvelous Marvin Hagler.
Amazing after nearly 33 years to the day, this fight is still talked about.
Hagler is my favorite boxer, always has been, always will be.
love Marvin Hagler, he was the best
RIP Marvin Hagler :(
Who cares?
He was one of the most intimidating
Top ten fighter ever in my book. I don't recall him ever visibly being hurt by a punch.
I’m sure your father would be very proud of you for the work you put into these videos. As always, great stuff, and thank you
I heard Guerra later got a sex change... He now goes by the name Adeline Byrd.
LOL good one
😂🤣😂😂😂🤣😭
kyoku1982 lmao 😁 😂
Dude that was hilarious
Hahaha quality joke.
Hagler won
Edit* Also. The smoking gun for me is the amount of warnings richard steele issued to leonard for holding. If i recall it was like 20 times lol.
and low blows +hitting in the back of the head + holding / hitting on the break
Stop. Or I'll tell you you to stop again.....lol
yup, he used the old Ali crap of holing and clutching, same manager i believe
You are correct! “You’re holding Ray!, Quit holding Ray!, Ray you’re holding! Quit holding Ray!” Over and over from ref Richard Steele. As Leonard hooked him around the neck and burying right to Hagler’s face.
Steele sucked.
Just heard the news that we lost Marvin Halger so sad one of the great ones hopefully you do a tribute to him Rummy R.I.P Champ!
I was only born in 2001. But this channel is the best boxing channel by far! Just a dude making whatever historical or modern boxing videos that he wants!! Somehow still captures the dramatic feeling of big fights with his tone of voice. I’ve never enjoyed history more. Love you Rummy!
Nice video. Kudos for recognising and acknowledging your own biases and how it could possibly affect in to your own scoring. Also agree it was a judging nightmare with so many rounds being so close.
All judges have preferences and biases. No 3 judges see the EXACT same thing over 12 rounds.
'Kudos' just reminded me of an incredible girl I knew a long time ago. Thanks.
I also fully agree with your post.
@Mr. Fireman Leonard avoided the rematch by "retiring," only to show up to fight lesser fighters (Donny Lalonde????) later.
Hagler should have never came out orthodox but I still had him winning 115-113. Great video as always 👍👍👍
He just wasnt used to fightin a track star ,
Yep. He threw away those first 2 rounds.
He over thought the fight strategy as well as over trained.
Don't listen to Gil Clancy's call. Clancy hated Marvelous!!!!
Joel O I think that was the biggest difference in the fight. He gave away those first three rounds. If he wins two of those three, Guerra’s score card becomes a non-issue.
Who can dislike rummys content best show UA-cam
Sugar Ray's burner account 😂😂🤷♂️
@@dub718bx lol stop it
This brings back memories of my father and I when I was a kid working with him. He would talk to me about fights he'd seen at the LA Forum, the LA Sports Arena, the Olympic Auditorium with my uncles. Ruben Olivarez, Alfonso Zamora, Carlos Zarate, Carlos Palomino, Pipino Cuevas, Salvador Sanchez the entire '70s LA fight scene. The only American fighter he liked and was never critical of was Marvin Hagler. And so every time we were painting, gardening, sweeping boxing was all we'd talk about and when he brought up this fight he would say, "Cabrones se la robaron!". "***** they robbed him!" He always said they robbed Hagler. I think Hagler won but it wasn't the blow out robbery my father made it out to be but that lopsided judge sure does make the robbery seem legit, though.
Nice story brother. Nothing like going down memory lane with pops. My dad was an avid boxing fan too and thought Hagler won.
I felt Hagler lost the fight by coming out orthodox. Plus, he gave away the first five rounds which made it basically impossible for him to win.
Exactly!
absolutely!
yep thats what happened
Yup, and as the Sports Illustrated boxing writer observed, Hagler's head wasn't really in the pre-fight mental game. Uncharacteristically, Hagler was goofing around, looking like he was desperately trying to seem nonchalant, but it came across as forced and awkward. It took him until the middle of the fight to get his usual relentless assault together.
By then Leonard was tiring, but had built up a lead and had figured out how to play the spoiler, mostly smothering Hagler's offense and stealing rounds in the final 30 seconds. But in highlight reels it's obvious Leonard lacked a bit of the spring in his step and snap in his punches after round 3, while Hagler never faded until maybe round 12 when he looked like he was at 95%.
I've watched this bout at least a dozen times since the night it was fought, and every time I score it within a point -- sometimes for Hagler, sometimes for Leonard -- or a draw.
As good as Rummy's highlight reel is, it still compresses time to the point that it underplays how effective Leonard was at thwarting Hagler. It was the kind of strategy that Bernard Hopkins built his entire latter career on, and often worked with the judges, even when fans didn't agree.
Overall, though, no question that Hagler was the best champion of his era, a better and more dominant champion than Leonard against one of the strongest middleweight divisions in history, and always came physically prepared. Hagler's only lapses were mental and strategic, sometimes playing it too safe against guys like Antuofermo in their first bout, perhaps against Duran, and in his first losing matches against Willie Monroe (nobody seriously questioned that decision) and Bobbie Watts (controversial). Too many casual fans thought of Hagler as a slugger but he was a very slick boxer/puncher with every skill in the book, and fought smart.
Maybe too smart. I have to wonder whether Hagler might have clinched the decision against Leonard by pushing past his comfort zone. But Hagler certainly respected Leonard's punching power and didn't want to be caught off guard by emptying the tank.
@@theparalexview785 That's a brilliant post there with some very good insights, and it's nice to hear it from an unbiased view. I'm glad you mentioned Haglers defeats and how controversial they were, he avenged these these losses and it's a pity Leonard never gave him the opportunity to maybe avenge this loss. Ah well, we'll just never know, take care.
Cool story about your pops Rummy. Much respect. Keep up the awesome work homie.
Really enjoyed the format of this video, would love to see more close fights broken down like this. Especially the side by side view of all the scorecards
Hagler won the fight but was fighting not just Leonard, he was fighting the crowd in the arena who cheered anything Leonard did regardless of whether it landed or not and boxing back then still suffered from judges who liked to go with the big money earning fighter and none were bigger than Leonard in the 1980's. A lot of Leonard's punches hit arms and gloves and many were pit pat shots. Hagler won this bout but it was close.
agreed
You make a good point that I thought about years ago. I think Leonard did receive a lot of style points based on the crowd reaction. He clearly was the fan favorite that night and you know how an underdog can play to a crowd. I think this may have had some influence on the judges although that one judge's scorecard way in favor of Leonard was a bit ridiculous. Even Al Michaels at ABC would soon make a joke about him that year when he was broadcasting a fight on the network.
Seeing this again, it reminds me of the Fury vs Wilder fight.
John Maddin I disagree. I think Leonard won the fight. It was very close but I think Leonard did enough to edge Hagler.
Mark Whippy Yeah Fury was robbed. Wilder was awarded a draw.
Holy shit! The first boxing match you ever watched was Hagler vs. Hearns!? No wonder you went off to eventually make this amazing channel lol.
This fight should have been declared a draw. The rematch would have been glorious!
This is Why Fights like this should be 15 Rounds and not 12!
Thor Thumb Well it wasn’t about to give my rematch. He knew better.
Brian Melvin yeah,Leonard would not have done it again.pitty pat punches in flurries in the last 30 seconds of each round.thats not affective punch scoring
Jerry Wolfe pitty pat punches? i’m pretty sure ure chin couldn’t take one. plenty of those flurries ended with strong rights that knock Hagglers head back. that ain’t pitty pat.
Haggler wanted a rematch
man I totally identify with u...i was 13 when Hagler fought Leonard and Hagler was my hero...I had the privilege to meet Marvelous at a mutual friend's anniversary where I had a chance to probe his mind..I found it refreshing that he legitimately still had bad feelings towards Leonard and understandably so.. at one point he wanted to show me what Leonard's punches felt like so he told me to hold up my forearm and then slapped it softly and told me that's what it felt like, "pitter patter all night!". I honestly think that Leonard as the Challenger did not do enough to take the fight.
tony Accardo Facts. Hagler was robbed.
tony Accardo that’s so cool that you met Hagler.
Great story man !
Hagler was n always will be a bad ass.
tony Accardo - Hagler was a badass who got outboxed. The simple fact is this (and ask Hagler next time you see him) it wasnt even supposed to be close. Hagler has one of the best knockout percentages. He never ever really hurt Leonard. He could have knocked Leonard out and there would have been no dispute, right? If you leave it in the judges hands anything can happen and it was a close fight. That’s the golden rule.
I watched the first Leonard/Hearns and Leonard said that he was losing the fight until he knocked out Hearns. Leonard admitted in the second fight that he lost that fight to Hearns. But he never said that about the Hagler fight.
Noticed that there are no rounds that are 8 to 10. So even though Guerra’s card is way too generous for Leonard it’s not like he scored any rounds 8 pts for Hagler. And if Filippo scores one more round for Leonard we got a different scene dont we. Even Rummy disagreed with Filippo on one round.
At that time everyone thought Hagler was invincible without weakness.
Timothy Duzenski during my conversation with Marvelous (Hawaii around 02'), he did say that the Mugabi fight took alot out of him and looking back, he maybe should've ended his career there but nevertheless he fervently believes he, being the aggressor, initiating the fight shouldve won. it hard to see it any other way when you hear it from the horses mouth. lol
Leonard was the media Darling and had already won before he walked into the ring.
What a load of shite.
@@scudger99 having JoJo Guerra as judge meant it was in the bag before it started...118-110 renders Ray's win meaningless, and I'd say the same if the 118-110 went Hagler's way
Not fair to Leonard he fought the right fight.
This fight was so fixed in Leonard`s favour it was laughable..I guess they thought Hagler was going to sign for a rematch..I just smiled when he didn`t and retired..I will always respect the Marvelous one for not buying into the circus
Nah, Hagler would never be involved in some fixed fight.
That comment is so ridiculous it's laughable. It was a close fight and it was close because Hagler decided to give away the first three rounds. If you think Hagler won a close fight, I have no problem with it. Anybody who thinks Leonard won a close fight, there's a lot of justification for it. No way anybody can call the fight fixed because that would mean Hagler participated in the "fix" giving away the first three rounds with his stupidity. I think we all can agree that 118-110 Leonard is crazy but calling the fight fixed is nonsense.
Mistachill the more one examines this the more it becomes obvious Leonard did not win. Even his ring strategy was fools gold designed to trick the judges rather than beat his opponent. He danced, had his brother yell thirty signaling thirty seconds left, then flurried meaningless showy love taps on Hagglers gloves that wowed an ignorant crowd. He admitted this was a strategy to steal rounds. It was fools gold.
SRL refused the rematch & waited for MH to retire before continuing his career & went on to fix a few more fights thereafter.
@Sepher Agon BL had fights?
First time I've tried to score the fight and I gave it to Sugar. That was like 5 years ago. Now I have it as a draw. But I'm not even sure. My God you're right, this fight is really a nightmare to decide.
It only seems difficult because you are still drinking that Sugar Ray cool-aid. The media gave him to you and told you he was great. One day you may begin to think for yourself.
@@MrWARHAMMER68
How dare you impugn the magnificent GLORY of Leonard----you should be ashamed of yourself.
Not really, no matter who the champ is, I always give close rounds to the champ, ALWAYS!
Those first few rounds unorthodox came back to haunt Hagler at fight's end. Besides that, Leonard was step a few seconds quicker and more efficient. Right decision.
Those fast flurries rarely landed. They either missed, or met Hacker's gloves. There was no power in them. They were just meant to look good.
Exactly
On the legendary nights doc, it was even stated by Leonard himself that he would try and steal as many rounds as he could by throwing flurries at the last 30 seconds of each round. They weren’t necessarily effective, but it did it’s job as eye candy for the judges.
And it worked. Hagler: He never hurt me. Leonard: It was points, man, points! Hagler had the passion, Leonard had the fashion.
bolo punch, what a cunt SRL became.
It is an unfortunate fact, boxing is a part of show business, presentation unfortunately counts almost as much as talent. Ray knew this, he knew he couldn’t hurt Hagler, but he could impress the judges with speed and flash. Perception is reality, and Ray gave the perception that he could hit Hagler at will, flurry him off the ropes, and flurry the last 30 seconds of the round because he knew that flashy speedy moves catch the eye, and it tends to be the stuff you remember. Hagler pressed the fight, Ray ran the entire fight. If hagler had just walked to the center of the ring and stood there and waited for Ray and not chased him, there would have been no fight. It’s irritating to me as a fight fan that judges give points for running. Rather than points for pressing the fight. I do think it was a robbery. Not because what Ray did wasn’t impressive, indeed, Ray had been retired for some time, came out of retirement, no tune up fight, nothing, just jumped right in, no, it was more so because of the obvious sell out of the one judges score card. That guy was bought and paid for. I could see if they gave it to Ray only by a couple of points, an argument could be made either way, but that was just blatant. Hagler has never gotten the respect he deserves
Everytime i watch this fight i score it differently. Most recently i scored it 115 to 113 for the marvelous one. But there is no way it was 118 to 110 for leonard. Or either for the record
Was really a draw between two masters with differing styles. Thanks, Rummy.
Yep Sir, 114 - 114 I had it.
Hagler was one of my favorite fighters of all time. I think he will always be ONE of the most underrated GOAT. Having said that, the fight was so close man. I think Hagler edged it as well but it was so close. If there had been a timely rematch I think the Marvelous one would have proven without doubt who the better fighter was. Too bad we didn't and never will get to see that. I like and respect Sugar Ray Leonard but the way he backed out of fighting Hagler years earlier and waited until he believed Marvin was past his prime.... Well it was all tactical genius of course but seems a little unbecoming for a fighter. But all in all they were both Great and Awsome fighters in a Great and Awsome era.
Hagler proved without a doubt he had the better character than Leonard.
Yeah and earlier if he would had fought Hagler it was 15 rounds instead of 12
AHH I see...."Leonard was being dishonorable" by waiting for Hag to age? Oh okay. See I thought Leonard had BALLS OF STEEL for fighting the #1 P4P Ko MONSTER while MOVING UP in weight and after a FIVE YEAR LAYOFF and baffling the usually implacable Hagler. Hagler's piston-jab was barely present. Where were his leaping combos punctuated with his always damaging body attack? Everyone cries about Marvin losing this one, which just mystifies me. Not one of them question his lack of attack/ferocity, his coming out deciding to go ORTHODOX (WTF!?!?!?) giving away 3 rounds automatically......etc.....Maybe people should look more at Marvin's performance because it was hardly close to his best work. I wanted Marvin to beat the pretty one, but his whole demeanor and effort just left me dazed. He didn't give his "110%" imo.
@@kevinmalone3210 Character? What did anything about that fight prove/disprove anything about Leonard's "character"? Moving up in weight after a 5 yr layoff to face an unbeatable champion? I say Hagler deserved what he got. It's like he thought he was going in against Hamsho again or something. No game plan whatsoever. Ray had a plan and stuck to it.
The Guerra scorecard was, damn near, criminal. There's no way you conclude 118-110 watching this fight. It's indefensible.
I was there, in row 26. During that weekend, I met a girl I knew from way back. We fell in love, and are still together thirty-two years later. It was the best weekend of my life.
awesome, did you sing "I here you Knockin"
Awesome!!
@@paulspears715 Girl's talk.
But you didn't answer the question, who do you think won?
Dave Edmunds See ? Great things come from great championship fights !!!! Congratulations you two !!!
What a upload! Thank you sir!
Hagler won!
You can't win a fight if one guy lands more punches than the other overall and no one really dominates the fight.
Hagler won.
You can't run the entire fight and steal the title.
He never once hurt Hagler.
Don't have to hurt the man just have to land Leonard did that.
@@cedriclashar8905 If you land he can't land. They both landed and Leonard destroyed a whole bunch of air and probably ruined Hagler's gloves. If you outpoint the champ barely with no major punches you are supposed to lose everytime.
Travis H why not if you land more punches?
run ? thats called boxing sir and in a boxing match you don't have to hurt your opponent to win just land more punches than him again this is called BOXING
@@cedriclashar8905 If you think this fight was judged fairly you are clueless.
I am devastated upon hearing this horrible news. Hagler was always one of my favorite boxers to watch and watching him box was like watching a work of art. He can fight going forward, going backward, and can switch stances. Hagler can box and punch. He was a complete boxer. Hagler will, and always be among the greatest middleweights of ALL TIME and will forever be among boxing's all-time greats. When you hear the great middleweight legends like Robinson, Greb, LaMotta, Ketchel, Burley, Monzon, you will always hear Hagler's name among them legends. Us fans will always appreciate the excitement and discipline that he brought to the sport, inspiring thousands of young boxers to take the sport. Hagler was a class act both in and out of the ring. I take my hat off to this great great legend Marvelous Marvin Hagler and he is truly MARVELOUS. Rest in power Champ!
Marvin Hagler was champ they took his title and handed it sugar ray Leonard that’s why he vowed never to fight again
This is why I believe that the champion should fight twice a year, with the #1 contender and it should be 15 rounds, not 12.
vadouis I agree, but these fighters now has to quick. The only ones built for 15 are. Floyd, Pacquiao, canelo, ward
They just took Hagler's title and gave it to Leonard ? Nothing to do with Leonard facing him for 12 rounds then ?
118-110 in this fight is almost as egregious as that 114-114 card in Mayweather/Canelo.
Castillo beat Mayweather 8-4.
How about 118-110 for canelo ggg 1.
It's nowhere near as worse. GGG/Canelo 1 and Fury/Wilder were worse decisions
Not so. Many of these rounds were razor thin close. No one dominated. Listen to Rummy- many rounds could have gone either way. 118-110 is entirely reasonable.
TheTruth Mayweather beat Castillo 7-5 with a broken hand but one card had Mayweather winning 10 rounds to 2 so they had a rematch where Mayweather won 9-3
Great video man.
I had Leonard eeking out a decision.. however i haven't rewatched this fight in years. My dad had Hagler winning it. He didn't like the pit pat shots from Leonard. Ha
Lol, dad knows best! People all around me at the time were swayed by the pitty-pat shots thrown by Leonard, and as much as I still respected him, I just didn't feel he did enough to win the fight.
yeah, pretty boy with the stupid pitty pat punches at the end of each round fooled stupid judges
@@todayiwasblessed1512 Pitty patty punches score points
Today I was Blessed,... I definitely share your sentiment. I felt Leonard fought a great tactical fight with flashy less combination shots. Though they are points the telling and more meaningful shots were from Hagler. He pressed the fight while Leonard utilized crafty footwork to stay out of harms way. I had Hagler easily ahead though many were close rounds!!!
I thought the marvelous one won the fight
Billy Bob Amen 🙏🏻
One of those great fight that needed one more go round. RIP Marvelous Marvin Hagler
Rummy, not wonder you got
105 000 subscribers. My favorite channel. Thank you for every single episode
Thanks for another great video. Great fight, great era, great fighters! I love SRL but Hagler is definitely in my top 3 or 4 favorite fighters. I can watch this fight 100 times and I pick SRL 50 times and Hagler 50 times.
Leonard stole that fight by always rallying in the last seconds of the rounds which impressed the judges. Show won over substance.
Big FACTS
no one steals a fight, leonard simply did not fight hagler nor could he ever beat him at fighting.
I have it 114-114 a draw. But I remember when I watched the fight live I thought Leonard clearly won. I do not think it was so much the flashy things as it was that he was the underdog and he performed better than expected against a favourite champion. This impressed the judges and they had a hard time remaining objective, with that said Hagler did neither win nor landed more nor do more damage. A draw 114-114 is how I scored it today after watching, still I can see how easy it was to get carried away in favour of Leonard at the time because Leonard outperformed expectations.
Kevin Hickin He was point fighting. No way Hagler wins this on points. It wasn't a robbery. Leonard landed more punches and kept running away from Hagler
Bill K SRL landed more. Hagler must have known he needed a knockout to win
What fight was Guerra scoring? Hagler got robbed. He is champ, was the aggressor, landed flusher and more damaging shots
The Strength Set Channel he didn’t get robbed don’t be dramatic it’s an extremely close fight with arguments for both sides, a robbery was ggg Canelo 1 or wilder fury or Lewis Holyfield 1 etc
@@flashrabbit9 yeah it wasn't a robbery by any means but that Jose Guerra card was a joke
pretty boy fooled the stupid Las Vegas judges, all flash,no substance
Hagler fought right handed first two rounds - those could have been 10- 7 rounds ! Hagler is a crying dumbass
ABSOLUTELY LOVED, ADMIRED AND APPRECIATED YOUR HONESTY AND TRANSPARENCY ABOUT THIS FIGHT Brother. SO MUCH SO THAT I HAD TO SUBSCRIBE TO YOUR CHANNEL. HATS OFF AND BIG SALUTE TO YOU FOR GREAT WORK AND A GREAT STORY ABOUT YOU BECOMING A HONORABLE BOXING FAN ✊🏾👑💯
The fact that this fight is still being analysed and discussed thirty-plus years later suggests, to me at least, that they were both winners that night. In spite of the judge's score-cards, at the conclusion of the bout, both fighters knew they had represented the sport of boxing like few others before them ever had. That night, in that ring, they shared the rarefied air of epic greatness. Fortunately for fans of the sport, that rare air seemed to predominate the Middleweight Class throughout, what I consider to be, a golden era of boxing.
I should remember this as a great fight even though I disagreed with the result. However, Guerra’s card still makes me sick to this day.
Eric Spratt go look up the fight on boxrec.com and you’ll see a ton of well qualified people scored it similarly wide.
No way that was a 118-110 fight. I have no problem with someone who had a close decision for either man. But 118-110? What the hell was he watching?
That last judge was on pcp
More like green cotton.
Agreed
Yeah, Pure Corruption Paid-Off
LOL
I've watched it several times and I always get a draw if I score it.
A draw would've required 2 knockdowns - cf Leonard Hearns II
Rummy! This has to be one of the best, if not THE best, analysis of this fight I have ever seen. I grew up next town over from Brockton, MA...and recall listening to Sports Huddle on Boston's WEEI radio every Sunday night. A very young Hagler on his way up used to sit in with the three radio hosts and take questions from fans, as well as absorb good natured barbs from the hosts, who had become his friends. This was in 1978-79, roughly. Hagler was so well spoken and decent, you could sense he was something special. We all followed him passionately in Boston...and marvelled at his spartan training camps out on the peak of Cape Cod in wintery Provincetown. Hagler was never going to let ANYONE outwork him. Anyway, all of that is context to my point that your analysis is excellent. All these years I felt Hagler was robbed. I could not see it objectively. Now, with your help, I can. Thank you. Happy Holidays!
Thank you very much for sharing that story. Happy Holidays to you as well! Cheers!
Hagler was robbed, for one simple reason Leonard gave too little in attack to beat Hagler. Haggler was the aggressor all through the fight and was never in serious trouble. You are right about Leonard fighting the right fight against Hagler, but it was still an all defensive fight from Leonard bar the flurries. The flurries that looked good, but they were still defensive in nature. He never dented Haglers armour. This should have been a Hagler win.
Another great video Rummy.
Saw the fight again a couple of months ago on ESPN. Scored it for Hagler 115-113. Yes he was robbed in this fight because you can't have a judge score it 118-110 for Leonard, and basically take Hagler out of the running for the decision. Truly disgraceful scoring in a championship bout.
By the way, you have the best channel on UA-cam, period.
Black Bull what rounds did Hagler clearly win? I watched it live without sound in 87 and immediately thought Hagler won only the 5th, 9th and maybe 10th. That’s it. I can’t stand you 118-110 morons! Learn how fights are scored before spouting nonsense
@@shawnmichael9503 Shawn, when two other judges score is 115 - 113 either way. It means the moron who does not question the 118-110 is the person who does not know anything about boxing.
Great vídeo man. Following the same line, You could do a vídeo about "Ali vs Norton 3". It would be awesome too. Boxing on fellas🥊🥊🥊
Agreed!
Ali norton 3 was the biggest robbery in the history of boxing. Even Ali knew he lost.
This was one of the closest fights there's been in my opinion. I watched, and scored, the fight live - at which time I gave it to Haggler. However, I watched the fight again a few years later, this time scoring it for Leonard lol.
Watched this match so many times. I sometimes have it a draw or Leonard edging it out by one point. This is an amazing channel 👏.
I used to repeatedly watch the Leonard vs Hagler Super Fight when I first started boxing at the age of 14! A friend of mine had it on video in the early 90’s !!
We both loved watching it before leaving for the boxing gym!!
Such an inspirational boxing match!
Even all these years later after I rewatch the fight, I still believe Hagler won. It was close, but in my opinion Hagler lost the political decision
I absolutely agree with you. Someone had a axe to grind
He lucky he didn't fight Leonard in his prime because it would've been a short night for Hagler. FACTS 💯💯💯💯💯
Walter Moore yeah but hagler wasn’t in his prime either. Leonard did not want to fight hagler when hagler was in his prime
yeah, fuck the Las Vegas douche bags
yeah, Ray was the darling of the idiot press, but Marvin should have stomped his ass
Is there a better way to score? When I saw the fight It always seemed like Hagler was dominating the centre of the ring and chasing a constantly running Leonard - who clinched when in trouble... and never seemed to put Hagler under any real threat.
But Like Rummy I know shit about boxing!
Great work and your accent adds so much gravitas to the content. Almost timeless quality to it. Have a good day.
Thats not How to Score a fight.
Clean Punches
EFFECTIVE Aggression
Ring Generalship
Defense
Gotta score every aspect of both fighters performances, and decide what dominanted round by round.
Leonarda ring Generalship dominated almost the whole fight. Thats not him just moving, but rather , him successfully choosing the right moments to Punch, because he knew where He was, where hagler was and what Hagler wanted to do.
Their is alot that i havent mentioned, but itll be all day before i can try to full explain myself so i wont. It was a great and close fight, so, it can go both ways.
...
Ive always had Leonard winning by very few rounds.
As a big Hagler fan back then I thought he was robbed, a draw would have seemed reasonable and the re match would have been dynamite ! Really enjoyed this round by round analysis and your honesty .... thanks Rummy 👍
I thought Hagler won the fight back then. Every time I have rewatched the fight I have still thought Hagler won the fight. I cannot see a way that Leonard won the fight, other than by fixing the judges (which that 110-118 indicates). However, I think a draw, Hagler retaining the belt, and a rematch probably would have been the best outcome for the sport, and would probably have held up over time. Saying Leonard won is always a suspect call that doesn't stand up against the evidence of the fight.
Well done! Your channel is excellent. First time I’m writing to you…to encourage you to continue to produce outstanding work-product!
Thank you very much!
Boxing holds a special place in my heart because of my father too. I miss him dearly. I always wish he could have seen this channel. He would have loved it. Like I do. Great stuff Rum
Despite how atrocious Guerra's scorecard was I've never really had an issue with the official result. I thought it was an oddly flat performance lacking urgency by Hagler's usual standards, and Leonard's gamesmanship took advantage of that - Hagler played right into his hands. I've never really felt like Hagler deserved the win, and I'm saying that as someone who by and large likes Hagler as a fighter better than Leonard.
I thought that Hagler assumed (like most pundits going in) that Leonard would've run out of gas after a few rounds and he'd have just muscled him. Hagler could have easily won the fight and I think he threw away the first few rounds which cost him on the cards.
Paul McBride He the fuck you see it that way when he ran all night but I bet you hate Floyd for doing the same shit now against pac
I had it seven rounds to five for Hagler then, and I still do now.
I had it a draw
I had sugar wining it
Sorry dude your dead wrong leonard sent mh into retirement cause he could not knock him out like he thought he would!! You hagler fans need a pacifier cause your poor loosers leonard took off 5 yrs and still beat him square and fair my buddy wasent happy hagler loss but at least he is honest and a good sport about it you guys are pathetic
The phrase 'hollow victory' could have been coined with this fight in mind.
hollow my butt. this is youtube revisit wishing hype. People know Sugar Ray came back and did just wtf he said he was gonna do. Put them paws on Marvin and take his belts. Yall can't take that away from him. Hagler needed a knockout to win and he couldn't knock Leonard out. RIP to him though. He was a great champion.
Excellent video! This was the first boxing match that I watched as a child. In fact this was the first thing I ever recorded on a VCR. Like you, I remember watching this fight with my old man and your commentary at the end brought chills. RIP to your father.
-New Subscriber
I remember scoring it for Hagler very close when watching it live 15:50 all those years ago. That said, it’s not possible nor fair to try to score it accurately based on what’s a virtual highlight film. It’s fair to say, as most commenting have, that it was tough to score, extremely close, appropriately not unanimous, and not a robbery. Well done video and honest commentary Rummy!😊
Some fights are real hard to score
I love the fact that you admit your bias towards Hagler and you did yout best to judge the fight unbiased.
IMO This fight was a draw.
Hagler won the fight but lost the boxing match.
@El Grando Smokio no thats my score card lol, he means that when they were brawling Marvin was winning but when the were boxing Leonard was
El Grando Smokio yes it does. Hagler won the fight but Leonard won the boxing match
@@edgiebraahhh7280 no it does not,the fight is also a boxing match.it's always boxing.
If you win the fight by scoring the most meaningfull blow of the contest,GUESS WHAT?you're also winning the boxing match.
This sentence doesn't make any sense.
I understand but Hagler deserve won the fight for me .
El Grando Smokio. He’s saying that Leonard landed more punches, while Hagler landed harder punches.
This is one of my favorite UA-cam shows. Excellent host.
RIP to your dad, Rummy. My dad also showed me boxing and I try to watch as many fights as I can with him whenever possible.
After fighting Mugabi, Hagler wasn't the same. That's one of the most brutal fights l've ever seen...
You got it right!!! Hagler lost something against mugabi Hagler was also older then he said he was. Haglers face was so swollen after the mugabi fight. Any way you slice it hagler was old against Sugar Ray. Styles make fights. Hagler won a 15 round split decision against Roberto Duran Hearns KOs Duran in 2. Hagler KOs hearns in 3. Styles
The Hagler/Mugabi fight was a good one. I thought Mugabi showed a ton of heart. I was always a Hagler fan but I felt bad for Mugabi in that one.
Nima Akhtar Khavari it was not a boxing match it was actually brutal nearly hand to hand combat for the whole fight .
Hearns KO of Duran in 2 rounds was due to poor training & partying ... not "styles".
Exactly.
That's why Leonard decided to fight him then and ONLY THEN.
Great fighter Leonard but very smart/slimy (depends on how you see it).
I remember hating this decision. Hagler was the champ and deserved better scoring. Leonard won because of a few flashy moments.
Hagler, definitely. Every time I watch this, it's Hagler's.
Hagler won both fights. SRL had the fans and media on his side. RIP MR.HAGLER
I love your videos, Rumy. Your commentary about your pops hit home for me. I love you, bro!
Hi Rummy, new subscriber here. Like you I was and am a massive Marvelous Marvin Hagler fan. I watched the fight and wanted him to win so badly that later when the video came out, I hired it ( remember those days? ) and watched it over and over hoping somehow the ending would change. Then I got a four head video player with super slow motion and watched it again, this time counting landed punches, round by round in slow-mo. I had to give it to Sugar Ray 115-113. Oh, just to finish the story, many years later when the video shop closed down, they were selling all their old stock so I bought the tape. Cheers!
hagler won the fight 115 113 leonard to much holding never warned no points took off he also run alot.
That's called footwork lmao
Two of my favorite fighters ever. Loved them both. Watched the fight numerous times and scored it several times over several decades. Don't know if my rounds are all the same because as you say, most are close , but every single time (including when I saw it live on TV) I score it a draw.
That said, Leonard had glove size and especially ring size in his favor, size of ring combined with Leonard's footwork especially gave Hagler fits.
Give both credit for massive heart. Great fight.
Looking back at this fight I must say that Leonard fought a smart fight. His superior footwork, instinctive counter punching and keeping Hagler's power at long range. Hagler couldn't really get off like he always did. Saying this, Sugar Ray still didn't do enough to take Hagler's belt. He clearly outsmarted Hagler in this fight, he wasn't reckless like Hearns was against Hagler. Sugar being more of a technician methodically finessed his way to survive against Marvelous Marvin, that's all he needed in order for boxing to monetize his name one more time to bring in the big bucks. Enough said , what happens in Vegas...Should stay in Vegas. In my eyes Hagler didn't lose this fight.
Love the channel, Rummy. I know this is an older vid, but I just went through a journey of Hagler's Career.. I've been a casual boxing fan but even if I was diehard, Hagler was a bit before my time.. As I get more into boxing, I was drawn to his fights.. such a professional and yes he did have a boxing ego but I never thought he was disrespectful or phony. Just had a healthy chip on his shoulder.. I also love that he trained in Provincetown, a place I still visit in the summer. Area is nice for tourists but so small too so it was pretty recognizable on video even 35, 40 years ago.. Anyway, I just finished this fight today. I actually gave Leonard a slight one point victory.. Now, I'm not a seasoned scorer by any means, but boxing is scored round by round and I thought Hagler gave away some early rounds and then lost some toss up rounds. I feel like the fight happens 5 years earlier and its a different story. Leonard didn't have the power to stop Hagler and Hagler would have gotten off quicker, been faster... Not saying he was done at this point, but if you watch his whole career, you know that he was surprisingly quick, and I don't think Leonard's dancing would be as effective against a faster Hagler. I agree that he was the aggressor but if you're aggressive but missing it doesn't really mean much to me. Leonard had a perfect game plan.. That said, I could easily score it a draw or a Hagler win.. Wasn't robbery but 118-110 is insane. Keep up the good work
Great fight analysis and acknowledgement of unconscious bias at the end. Very well done on both counts.
Ray backed up too much! Hagler made the fight. Old school: 7-5 Hagler.
Lenard initiated most exchanges
I agree I basically had it same 6-5-1
After watching this right now and seeing the fight in the past I have to say that Hagler won the fight.
I had it the exact same, Marvellous by 2, no robbery just a very close fight
close fight, Marvin should have done better
Keep up the great work rummy, been watching your channel for awhile now...I’m huge boxing fan , but I became a fan in early 90’s, and mid 2000’s kinda lost the love , (didn’t follow as much ) stiil had love , but wasn’t paying attention to the rankings. Last 5 years, I’ve found the love back , and just wanted to thank you , for your hard work and great content ...side note ( your narrating, your voice works great , and your boxing knowledge, is outstanding) I enjoy your videos, plus I love the knowledge I’ve learnt from the past and years I didn’t follow. This is best boxing 🥊 channel ever.
Hey man I just wanna say every video u put up I’m watchin ASAP because of your intriguing way of defining the fight! Please make more brother u are awesome! 🙌🏻
DRAW !!! That would have stopped the controversy.
Tell that to Fury fans.
@@Idk_1838 Fury fans can't read.... I think they pass around the 2 IQ points they have during his fights.. :)
Facts, do you know how huge and how much revenue a second fight would have generated. This could have been arguably the greatest trilogy that never was. I viewed it a draw also. There was no clear winner, chess at it's finest.
@@gaiauniversity5882 👍🏼
@@brianboyle4589 Leonard wouldn't have done the rematch because he got the victory and could have lost in the rematch. Leonard was smart and new Mugabe took a lot out of Hagler before this fight. Leonard also picked Duran for a rematch just after he was celebrating a victory as he knew Duran would gain weight partying. Same with Ali and Forman. Ali wasn't going to ever give Forman rematch as Forman knew the mistakes he made in there encounter. Forman knew this and that's why he left boxing. He had no where to go.
I’m a huge Hagler fan, as he was my favorite boxer as a kid in the 80’s. I still say Leonard won on a close decision. Hagler’s biggest mistake was coming out timid in the first 3 rounds instead of going right at Leonard. It gave Leonard confidence to find his groove and feel he could go toe to toe. Plus Hagler’s camp gave into many demands from Leonard’s camp agreeing to 12 rounds instead of 15, and a bigger ring so Leonard could move around more.
My card was the same as Rummy except I gave Leonard Round 4 and 12, which gave him the decision.
Youre a smart boxing fan and are able to look at the fight objectively. It was very close, and Leonard probably wouldnt have made it to the finish had it been set for 15. I felt Leonard won, but wont argue with those who felt Hagler won.
I agree to an extent. I just rewatch this fight last week and yes he does give up some of the early rounds. However I always felt and still do feel that Hagler completely dominated the second half of the flight. Leonard mostly ran and was running on fumes trying to avoid a fight. I’m confused how you could give Leonard round 12? What did he do in the round? He threw punches mostly that landed on arms and danced around without engaging for basically three minutes.
I think it could flip either way, especially when it's live with no rewinds and you have to do it as it goes. That 118-110 score is horseshit and not reflective of the fight at all.
Hagler won!!
Marvin Hargler is the greatest middleweight EVER
Sugar Ray Robinson in his prime would have killed Hagler.
A_B B_A *Sugar Ray Robinson is considered the greatest Boxer Pound for Pound who was a middleweight. So that would automatically make him the greatest Middleweight.
Kevin Boynton you lost your mind he would have be killed
Love the channel and loved this episode particular. Thank you for going into your love for Hagler and your attempt to be unbiased but also acknowledging how difficult that is. My dad was a huge Ali and Ray Leonard fan. It has always been almost impossible for me to be unbiased in their fights. Sometimes upon watch the reply I can be more even handed in the calling but it is difficult. Thanks again
To bad there wasn't a rematch ! 🥊
Two of the Best ever ! 👍