How Far Can You Run Solar Cables | Avoiding Line losses
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- Опубліковано 11 чер 2024
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Is there a limit to the length of solar cable or wiring between your panels and your charge controller? This is a common design criterion we need to consider in our DIY solar projects because the best sun might be hundreds of feet away from our system equipment. I will walk you through how to calculate line losses and a few factors you can tweak to run a long distance while reducing the impact of your losses.
DISCLAIMER: This video and description contain affiliate links, which means that if you click on one of the product links, I’ll receive a small commission.
You can just put the station beside the panels and run the extensions through the yard. That way you can look at both meters in real time simultaneously. You having the station in the front yard or beside the panels doesnt matter as the loss in the length of the cable is what your calculating.
It matters greatly because of weather, temperature and access.
A great video. I hope you get your smart meter switched over soon. My first, full electric bill, my solar panels produced 87% of my usage.
I need to take advantage of this late summer / early fall sun! 🙌
In series where you doubled the voltage so half the current carries the same wattage, not only do you save because lower current means lower loss, but you also save because the loss is a smaller portion of that higher voltage.
In other words, at 36 volt you were getting approximately 10% loss (for ease of calculation) or 3.6v loss. If you cut the amperage in half, you will lose only1.8v. If you were still at 36 volt that would be 5%, but as you are now at 72 volt that is 2.5%. It's all math, and what that calculator is really doing for you is computing the resistance of the gauge and length of wire you specify. You can look up resistance per foot and do all the math yourself. Don't forget that the distance is double - the circuit includes the positive and negative wires.
amps = volts / resistance or volts = amps X resistance
also
power = volts X amps
I like to target no more than 3% loss but 5% is probably okay. 10% is a LOT of loss!
Great info and thanks for all the feedback. 🙌
Hi
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Very useful information. Thanks for running and explaining this test!
You bet, happy to help 🙌
Great info. This makes a difference as my preferred solar array, on top of a new carport, is a detached one around 60 feet (maybe 100 cable feet to inverter) from my house and I was wondering what losses I would have. This video shows me it will be quite okay. Thanks.
Awesome, happy the video helps and best of luck on the project!
If all four panels were in series you'd be at 72V, so why not since your controller can take 100V?
I add in 50ft extensions with my camping setup. I can usually find a good spot for the panels within 50ft, but I can go 150ft if needed. I've been using 8ga copper clad aluminum. It lays flat reducing a tripping hazard, and the loss at 150ft is almost identical as 10ga copper, at less than half the price. Pretty soon they'll be making wedding rings out of copper. Thank your EV driving friends.
For sure, I agree that Series should be default just as long as you are still in the working range of the charge controller. 👍
Good vid! There is another consideration which few talk about. It will depend on your load, and I do not know what these charges controllers in this regard. But maximum power will only be transferred if the source impedance matches the load impedance. In this case, that would be the source resistance, and the load resistance. Just divide the voltage that you get at the load from your solar installation divided by the current that you are getting, and that is the source resistance of your solar panels plus the wire. Ideally, you want your load to be this same resistance for maximum power transfer. Those harbor freight panels have about three ohms resistance each. So, depending on how you wire them, and how much line wire length you have, you’re going to have a different amount of resistance. For a solar water heater element the resistance is also the specifications voltage divided by the specifications current, which is usually 7 to 12 ohms. So make your solar panel arrangement plus the wire resistance, the same as this and you can optimally heat water directly. If you have a charge controller, then I’m not sure what kind of load of presents to the solar panel. One would hope that it is adaptive and changes, its input resistance, according to what the panels are providing. But cheaper charge converters may not be so smart.
Willing to bet you still will be getting a bill monthly for the line charges even if you draw nothing from the Grid....but overall nice setup. Quite a few forget them line charges when calc ROI from solar, when deciding on solar keep the entire system cost in mind and what the solar might actually reduce. Net metering 1:1 sounds like there will be no charge, but you are charged for transmission fees, need to include those as well....
Nice. I was just thinking about this
Let us know what else you might be thinking about. Always looking for interesting topics that will help viewers.
@@everydaysolar I ran into an issue when trying to charge my EcoFlow delta pro with my ford lightning. Every time I tried I got a power default in the truck. I scoured the net and couldn’t find a video anywhere. Turns out both have a floating ground and the fix was to make an extension cord with two prongs and no ground.
Thanks for another interesting video.
May i suggest you take a look at the pzem watt meter models. The one called pzem015 can handle up to 200vdc and usually comes in 50, 100, 200 or 300a models.
The price range is about 10$ to 20$ for the 50a-300a.
The other pzem models may only support 100v so make sure you look at the correct version.
This is just a suggestion to the obstacle about max 100vdc you faced. I dont know if they are available in your place.
My system runs between 300-400 volts, 125ft cable, 5-10Amps, 10 AWG: I am losing less than %0.5 according to the calculator.
The higher your voltage, the lowers your amperage (solar panels in series)= Less loss and more efficient
You could do a "theoretical test", by using a DC Voltage Regulator / Power Supply, push 10A through the wire and see how much voltage drop.
This test will be independent of sun's variable sunlight.
Good info.
Thanks!
I’ve watched a few of your videos, informative. I have a question,… how did you calibrate the two power meters? I was looking at doing something similar. Keep up the good work 😊
I ran 1 test where I had identical setups in the same location and compared the Wh across each of the power analyzers over the exact same time duration. The error was less than 1% but that is the only test I ran to understand the error for these units. I am looking to up my data collection/ power analyzer game soon 👍
@@everydaysolar Nice, carry on, looking forward.
Great video. I have 60 ft 10 gauge runs at my place, and the only real losses I have seen are from my PWM charge controllers once you go over 40 ft. Cool chair. What is it?
What I found interesting was reading a higher voltage at the Ecoflow than at the panels. That’s some good wire 😂.
That just the variability between walking from 1 end to another especially under cloudy conditions. One of the factors on why I like using the energy created during the test runs.
Great vid & Interesting! Dumb ques? Connecting Watt meter is source side panels and load side power station? Thanks
Yep, that is correct. The power station will be your load.
For data collection, i wonder if the "mushi meter" used regularly by youtuber Lock your hubs 4WDing would suit. It seems to have various attachments for air pressure, current, voltage, temperature, ive honestly been thinking it might be good to have myself, its super versatile
That does look pretty cool! Thanks so much for the recommendation 🙌
Very informative video. 60-65% roi on your roof panels sounds too good to be true. You must have a hellacious power bill and net metering. Let us know how that works out. In FL we don’t have net metering and roi is about 3 years before roof replacement.
Increase cable section : use 6mm2 instead of 4mm2. Maximize Voltage instead of Current, therefore in series instead of parallel. That's what electricity producers do to transmit electrical power over big distances : up to 1 million Volts !
Have you done a video on energy losses if a panel is facing east/west vs south?
Nope, That one is on the list and I would like to test all 4 directions at once 👍 Thanks for the feedback!
You had mentioned that the cable in the description can be direct bury. How deep does it need to be buried?
In my area we need to bury at a depth of 24 inches for unprotected (not in conduit) direct burial cables.
The NEC recommends 2%-3% voltage drop in your average power circuits. (That's actually a recommendation. Not a requirement.) But if you lose 3% of a 5000 watt array, that's 150 Watts! It's like wasting a 150 Watt pv module. How much does that cost? ...over time? It makes good long term sense to design for less than 1% voltage drop.
Talking about solar panel wire. It really disappoints me that I haven’t found a red wire that don’t bleach out in time from being exposed to the sun 😖. Nice video…
You could just use a dc power supply to show an accurate difference over distance and cable diameter.
Power loss is proportional to the square of the current.... Assuming resistance remains the same, half the current (at twice the voltage), means 1/4 the power loss.... I mean, this is the reason for high tension power transmission over long distances, isn't it?
It is, I actually was just thinking through transmission lines yesterday and should have used that example in the video. Thanks for the feedback!
I’m only doing four 100 watt panels (2 in series) (2 in series) then parallel.
My run is only 25 ft to my charge controller and two 100ah 12 volt batteries and I’m going 8 gauge just to be on the safe side
Should be plenty and also provide you some room to grow in the future if you would like 👍
👍👌❤️🇨🇦, gr8 info
Thanks 👍
This video should be called 'how long is a piece of string' - the answer is AS FAR AS YOU WANT - providing you're willing to buy thick enough cable. So the real answer is 'The shorter the better'.
There are different values for stranded versus solid wire, and copper over aluminum versus aluminum versus pure copper. I hope the calculator can handle all that!
The calculator in this video only handles Copper and Aluminum. I am starting to work on a new calculator and can build in some additional capabilities. Thanks for the feedback!
Can you use a lower gauge cable to reduce loss?
Sure can 👍
is the line loss less with 8awg?
Yepper, cost goes up but that calculator can help you make a decision for your specific installation.
You say you want to invest in the metering side with graphing etc???
Victron smart shunt! You can connect by bluetooth and see it all one one screen on your phone / tablet in realtime instead of waiting for that LCD to cycle.
Interesting color changes between some of the video edits!
Really just the sun coming in and out. That day was a good mix of sun and clouds.
We value your interesting videos very informative, but... start using a standalone MPPT to test with, not just those battery packs things that aren't a true way to test pv and charging
Thanks for the feedback. I am curious to get your take on why a stand-alone MPPT would be better than the MPPT integrated charge controller in the Delta Pro? The nice thing for the Delta Pro is I have 2 which provide a good apples to apples comparison of what the panels are producing across 2 different setups.
@@everydaysolar delta pro is technically aren't "solar". They are the new kids on the block trying to get there slice of the pie, we value your testing on these "unknown" equipments. Maybe try adding in a seperate MPPT still charging the same Delta pro battery directly.
Also bigger MPPT gives you more ways to connect different PV voltage to aswell.
That could be a PWM and not a MPPT we would know
@@NRC073 thanks for the feedback. I will continue to expand and I am also interested in doing multiple DIY setups where I select the charge controller, battery, and inverter. Currently just have a few different Renogy PWM and MPPT charge controllers. What brand do you prefer?
@@everydaysolar look at brand: morningstar very good long established company, victron ect,
I would love if we could submit our situation and have you walk through how to plan and evaluate a setup. Not product specific but the planning and decision making process
8 gauge wire ?
A lot of people say get the biggest gauge wire you can afford.
@@everydaysolar My panels are about 130 feet away to get beyond the trees that surround my house. I ran double 4 gauge. Of course, that was 20 years ago so the panels were $4 per watt wholesale and copper was a lot cheaper (12/2 romex typically $20 for a 250ft spool back then). Now that panels are so cheap and copper expensive, maybe if you have the space you decide to use less copper, live with the loss and compensate by adding more panels.
Why dont you just lay your cable in a U shape mate?
Get a better power station.... or use better charge controller and feed directly.
What is you favorite power station brand?
just run the cable in a circle.