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Lockdown Engine Run - Webra Record 1.5cc Diesel
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- Опубліковано 7 кві 2020
- Today we try out a 1970s Webra Record with a Taipan 8x6 propeller. Let's just say it's not a very cooperative unit when cold. Runs great in the end, though.
Never seen one operate in an aircraft only on test stands. Started string control in the 1960s. Got into warbird and formula 1 pylon racing 30 years ago. Now I'm in my 60s and enjoy it more than ever..
.mamma mua, vedere questo filmato mi fa tornare indietro con la memoria a 60 anni fa.
A similar experience to mine, i spent approximately 4.6 million years spinning the prop only to get the occasional growl. Good idea using the stick though my 9 year old self went for the bloody finger approach.
Yep, I've had enough bloody fingers. My model club logo is a bloody finger!
Macoy .35 would get ya
Formerly known as the CHICKEN STICK
@@matthewspry4217 STILL known as the Chicken Stick! I usually use a bit of rubber hose over my finger on the belligerent units, but it got flung off into the undergrowth, so just grabbed a soft stick off the ground.
at 14, I stupidly reached for the valve of my Cox .051 … through the spinning prop. Bloody fingers. 56 now, still have scars
I had a similar engine....and similar success at getting it running!
That was my first engine when I started aeromodalling in 1982
amazing video
That reminds me of a "Baby Bee" glow plug engine that my brother once owned - That thing never did run! I think he gave it away in the end. Last I heard, the kid he gave it to couldn't get it to go either. Rumour has it that he spent so long trying to start it that his beard grew so long that it got tangled up in the prop. They say the surgeon will eventually be able to remove it.
As yet, that engine has still not run in its entire life (approximately 48 years)!
😂😂...but seriously, I'm surprised that you had problems with the Babe Bee 🤔🙄 Me and my brother had these engines, and they started easily and ran fine 🤷♂️ The only issues were the engines sometimes running backwards (spring starter not installed), and occasionally, a flooded engine (cured by blowing through the exhaust ports) 😋
My first engine was a Babe Bee and I sure had my share of frustration with it. 30 years later it runs just fine - probably thanks to a few decades more operator experience and being able to afford fuel with 25% nitro!
@@ashcustomworks OK...that's interesting 🤔 I started off using Cox "Glow Power" fuel (red can), followed by Cox "Model Airplane" fuel (blue can), & finally Testors 1/2A fuel (dyed blue). I still have all my engines, but haven't run them for many years.
I appreciate the honesty regarding the startup time-line. Although starts instantly and runs on tuna fish oil would have worked also. Thanks for sharing.
Love the video. Starting small model diesel is an Art rather than a Science. Some might say a black art! PAWs were OK but I have a DC merlin (0.75cc) which broke my heart.
I still have a couple Webra Records, a Taifun Hurrikan, an Oliver Tiger, a PAW 19 and the sweetie of them all, a Webra Piccolo 0,8 cc
W latach 50w ogodzie jordanowskim w kaliszu robone byly pokazy modeli Latajacych ! Zapach spalin i dzwiek motorkow mam zawsze w nosie i uszacha !
I remember many years ago I had a 2.5cc PAW that wouldn't start, so I took it to Gig Eiflander (PAW) who lived nearby and he started it on the third flip- just like that!!
Nobody starts a diesel better than an Eifflaender!
I used that fuel in my airgun when a kid. I had a hal filled plastic bottle with a rag and bent spout. I could cock the airgun and spray some diesel fuel and fumes into the chamber, lock the breech.
When fired it gave off a crack as the fuel ignited and a kick in the shoulder...lol.
The trick is to have enough compression (the cylinder head knob). And the compression is much higher than you would expect. I lost a lot of time also until I found out that. So when you find that perfect compression (= max revs att the given fuel amount) you just lock the top knob - and you control the engine speed with the fuel amount knob on the carburettor. I loved my Webra record - and it was very easy and reliable to start when I understood the compression ratio thing
Almost... First - when running - close the needle to the point the engine almost stalls, then increase compression until maximum revs, then close the needle further for peak revs, then adjust compression again, repeat this proces until no more revs gain. When the engine warms up to operating tenperature, slightly decrease compresion to peak revs and open needle one or two clicks. Observe behaviour in flight to tell whether more adjustments are needed. An engine that overheats need less comp and a tad more fuel. An engine that cools down too much sounds undercompressed (stuttering revs)
When i was 12 i spent weeks starting model engines with my finger and was cut to shreds why did i not think of using a stick CRAZY
I usually use a rubber tube over my finger when protection is required, but had lost it by the time I did this video.
تستحق شهادة شكروتقديروبراعة ااختراع ، والله روعه وقوة القوة
لك ولأمثالك كل الأحترام والتقدير
من اليمن
Fit the prop so it is horizontal coming up to compression. As you flick it, wind the compression screw down a bit at a time till it fires then keep flicking as you back off the compression a bit. If it doesn't fire up, wind the comp down again till it fires then back it off as you flick. Best diesel I had was the E.D. 2.46 Racer. An easy starter. Worst was a Taipan 1.5 red head.
Taipan contrapistons were a very snug fit in the barrel and sometimes stuck at high compression position. Who can forget that "CLUTT" sound of a prop strike, then the inevitable pain would work in through the cold numbness of the fuel chilled finger.
Ah... A voice of reason. 👍 Most people, as you can see, have no clue about diesels.
Almost 60 years ago I had the same problem to start my Webra. I used a spray of ether in the air inlet; that went better...........
Funny commentary! Got one just today on eBay, looking forward to year 2525.
If man is still alive.
Bonjour ,formidable je suis une adeptes du moteur Diesel. Amitiés
Me gustó el sistema de arranque 😉👍👏👏👏
Hi good job ! Can I use part of your video to my compilation of interesting projects?
Yeah go ahead 🙂
Good job boss
Same ebgine same experience. I was 12 and the webra spoilt my fun in wired flying
I learned to fly Control Line with it in 1966, in 2016 I finished my 'career' at the World Campionships in Perth, Australia.
Good video
Wow... I had a number of the those in the 70$ I had a Fox .15 the same displacement as that one and a number of other COX 0.49 and Macoy 0.49 U-Line model airplanes that brings back some good memories.
A Fox .15 is 2,5 cc, the Webra Record just 1,5 .....
Nice video
Olá amigo GOSTEI muito de sua capacidade de invenções LIKE pela criação TMJ
I don't know why so many people are suggesting a drill to start this thing. That's a notorious recipe for a bent conrod in this type of engine.
Breaking the piston pin is another option. Drills, sticks.... Sigh....
I felt really shocked reading the driil remarks, may be that's why I overreacted in some of my replies. ☺
I still have one with green cylinder head. It has run max 30 mins. It killed my string controlled modell plane hobby. Only one half turn flight before crash. It was too difficult to then 12 year old kid to handle. Too much compression and it run back and worth and shaked itself off the plane. It still rests in its original box. Later i bought two 2,5 cc russian Mateors but never started them.
There were no Webra Records with a green cilinder, the oldest ones were red, the later version plain aluminium
Sounds like that crazy frog thing from years ago, just not annoying like that.👍🏴
Fakes me back more than 55 years to being a kid again. Sore fingers from turning over the prop. And niegbhours complain of the noise.
How this engine works. Two stroke or four stroke technology. How the fuel get fired - out of compression or by spark.
Two stroke, compression ignition with adjustable compression.
First diesel i've seen with a carburetor.
Hello Ash. I have had hundreds of engines over the years and still have. Without doubt, one of the worst was this one. I got it new in the early- mid seventies. It was just a pig, and my only regret is I didn't melt it down.
A number of my 1.5cc diesels seem to fit the "pig" category. Hit and miss seems to be the theme of the type.
Dear Dave, do you know that you use Nazi symbols of country that despicable invaded the Ukraine to kill civilians and destroy cities?
Was that fuel that was spraying everything?
Behind the scenes we need that how you make it
Very nice
Insane!!
I'm still trying to start a cox .49 from 1977
You're not alone! After all that time they usually need their gaskets and seals replaced. It can be an amazing transformation from total dud to perfectly functional for a $2 seal.
I had one of those with a green cylinder head and I only got it to run once for about two minutes after weeks of trying. It never started again.
A lot of people tell the same story!
There were never any Webra Records with a green cilinder. The oldest version had red anodized head. The last edition was plain aluminium.
@@brunovanhoek96 Mine was a Taifun Hurrikan. Guess I didn't appreciate what I had as a kid but even so it drove me insane.
@@jeromejooste3493 That is one of the best 1,5 cc diesels ever made, before some Schnürle scavenged types appeared.
I've got one myself for RC assisted FreeFlight. 7x4 prop, going like a bat out of hell!
WONDER Woman's engine is ready
Not bad!
It's running. Put it in a stick plane.
"This is a very good mini engine. It only needs a spring starter around the crank shaft case. That is all."
No, just learn to start it the proper way and then don't look back...
Increíble motor, me pregunto: ¿sí el ciclo es de 2 o 4 tiempos?
It's a two-stroke.
No se ven indicios de válvulas y el sonido es propio de un 2t. Además no sé si existen 4t en ese tamaño... Probablemente sea posible hacerlos pero un dolor de cabeza (y de bolsillo) injustificado.
@@moteroargentino7944 There is a 6.6cc 4T diesel made by Enya in Japan. Only used where extremely low fuel consumption is required.
@@ashcustomworks Yep, I didn't say it was impossible, just impractical in this size. Maybe an engine almost 5 times bigger is more useful.
Nice
Never thought diesel engine could be so small, is it two stroke?
Yes, two stroke. With the screw on top you can adjust the compression.
Yes, two stroke. They get much smaller than this. There are functional model diesels as small as 0.015cc.
Nice demo! By the way, did you make the test stand yourself, and is the engine only held in place by clamping pressure from the aluminium (?) clamps?
Yes, I made that stand of hardwood ply and blocks of very hard wood called merbau. There are aluminium pins that engage with the bolt holes in the engine's mounting lugs. It would be easier to have a step in the front of the wood blocks to locate the engine longitudinally.
@@ashcustomworks Thanks! 🙂
Some years ago, I had made a test stand for my Mills 75 copy using wooden bearers screwed into a block of wood, after which I applied fuelproof dope 😋
Có sáng tạo quá khứ
Maravilha!
I wonder if warming the engine with a heat gun would help.
Probably not - it really needed a fresher fuel mix.
When temperature outside drops below 10 C, maybe, but flying won't be a pleasure either, so why bother?
how does it heat up thou ?? if this will work. then a chainsaw will be able to run on diesel anyhow..
The fuel contains diethyl-ether, which ignites on compression without a heat source.
@@ashcustomworks can you run other engines on this fuel?
@@Tommysmess Yes, as long as they are capable of the right compression ratio, extremely good piston/cylinder seal and sufficient strength. There are very few reasons to convert another kind of engine.
@@ashcustomworks so like a high compression gasoline engine could theoretically run without spark and just compression? That seems like a much more reliable set up
@@Tommysmess It theoretically could, but it's not likely to be as reliable. These engines are highly sensitive to temperature and fuel composition. Having control over spark ignition takes care of a lot of those to things. The compression is so high that a conventional engine would kill bearings, cranks and conrods much more quickly than usual. The reason for these model diesels is to make then very light, simple with very low fuel consumption.
У меня 3 мотора КМД-2.5, КМ-17, Метеор-2,5... Где найти топливо..хз (эфир)?
Ask at a local model club or find engine starting spray at a farm supply shop.
Those nylon props are very dangerous to flip without a stick and diesel engines too, due to its high compression and easy to start reverse way...
You know what's really dangerous? Those big petrol engines , 100 cc and more.
Using sticks is a rough, uneducated way of handling a small diesel like this.
The chance of destroying a crankshaft, connecting rod or piston pin is not imaginery.
Just use a firm plastic finger protector and flick it by hand.
The very best diesel starters (F2C pitmen - look for F2C teamrace videos) often don't wear any protection.
Their pitstops ( refueling, start & take off) often are on par with Formula 1 tyre change stops.
Kerennn beutiful 👍🏿👍🏿
there is a starting spray which can be sprayed thru the air intake for Diesel engines Refer to ether starting spray for Diesel engines. It makes staring Diesel engines very easy.
The fuel for this type of engine already contains about 25% ether. I think the starting difficulty was caused by having the compression set a bit too low.
This engine wants more ether and more cetane improver than the fuel I used. it would start much more easily on fresh fuel.
What fuel is used in this engine?
It's usually around 30% diethyl-ether, 25% castor oil and the rest is kerosene or diesel with about 1.5% cetane improver.
@@ashcustomworks Correct! In a Webra Record, don't go below 25% castor. It's old metallurgy. On a cold day you might need a bit more ether, on a hot day a bit less, but 30% is a good starting point. 1,5 % amylnitrate, iso-propylnitrate or ethyl-hexylnitrate is just fine.
Mosquito jet sound motor😁👍
Couldn't afford a Webra Taipan was the cheaper Japanese alternative. Problem is more the finger hungry starting technique than the engine - would have tried a touch more compression
When were the Taipan motors built in Japan? My understanding was that Gordon Burford made them in South Australia.
@@DARANGULAFILM You're probably right. Was I thinking OS perhaps? Or just not thinking 🤔
@@rogerthat487 My vague memory is that the OS engines from Japan were the performance miracles of the time.
@@DARANGULAFILM And so were the ENYAs
MAYDAY!!! MAYDAY!!!!! COMIN IN HOT!!! 😬
can it fly
Definitely. It has flown many times before and will again in the future.
👏👏👏👏👏👏 👍 🇧🇷
👍
it leaks!
I had a frog 2.5 CC
Ah... a Classic! 👍
Дизель?
Yes
오..이런거 좋아..남자라면
Literally
How work with out plug spark
The fuel contains diethyl-ether, which ignites on compression. The screw on the head adjusts compression to the correct range for the conditions.
Bhai Engine chahiye
Angry little bee 🐝
Не понял
That's why they didn't goooooo.
All that work for 30 seconds runtime 😂😜
Just long enough to establish a mixture and compression setting and the range of operation. It'll run as long as you feed it fuel, but in a Free Flight model, a 30 second engine run might be enough to put it out of sight.
@@ashcustomworks sry…wasn’t meant that way
You're right, though... It's definitely a frustrating balance of effort to results!
@@ashcustomworks that was more the way I meant my comment…nice explanation from your side 😉
More gas Marty
First crash in that little plane that swings around in circles on the strings that never works out very well how it always goes over the top and into the ground then you take that motor and you drew it to piece of wood and then you screw that piece of wood in the back of your Tonka Jeep and then you take the little Tonka Jeep and you put it on the playground in the school and you reverse the prop start that motor up and watch that bugger take off
A familiar tale!
Buat tutorial membuat nya teman
Is co banana ka sistem
भाई अब तो 20 cc की बाइक बनाओ पेट्रोल के रेट आसमान छू रहे हैं 🙏🙏
This fuel is much more expensive than petrol!
⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐👍
Hadir 👍🤝
It just needs HEAT to start,maybe? : use a hair drier to supply hot air; cars use glow plugs,glowing red-white inside the combustion chamber
It was hot. It had run a few minutes earlier, but the fuel I was using was low on ether and cetane improver.
@@ashcustomworks A single drop of pure oil through the exhaust port was sometimes helpful when the oil cooked out after a run.
@@DARANGULAFILM If that was nescesary, the engine was seriously shot already. A good engine (with good fuel) would start first flick when hot.
Bom dia! Pra mim é uma honra viu prestigiar seu trabalho, vamos sempre juntos somar e fortalecer nossos objetivos, Conto com você, eu já estou por aqui .
Клас
Dont laugh but i have a PAW engine that's just as hard to start but run's real good once it's warmed up, sore fingers all the way......
It can take decades to work out what a PAW wants. My first one was horrible in the '80s, but it's an easy starter now!
Urah paham aku
👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋
,🤩
Likee
1:18
Maybe start with a cordless drill?
Look further up to see why that's about the worst thing you could do. It's barbarism to model engines.
@@brunovanhoek96 I can't find it do you mind briefly explaining?
@@jayzorb3782 It's app. 12 answers up, where DD547 mentioned the same malpractice.
Because you - contrary to DD547 - politely asked 👍, I will answer politely, of course:
The torque that an electric drill is capable of, is many times that of a human hand, flipping the prop. Since these small diesels are easily brought to the point of hydraulic lock, there is no way of moving the piston further up, but the driil will soon exceed breaking strain of the components..
If you're lucky, the test stand will break, but more likely some engine part in the chain crankshaft, connecting rod, piston pin will give (break). I've seen too many diesels that got broken this way. If people only asked before (and believed what experienced modelers were telling them), unnescesary destruction of these fine, little engines could be prevented.
Easier to release compression and spin with a drill for 10-15 seconds to warm up cylinder.. then spin with drill and hit compression release and fires right up.. i have one
No sir, thats a sure way of destroying a fine engine. If you can't hand start a Webra Record please refrain from giving such bad advice.
@@brunovanhoek96 🤔 my engine has been running since 1993.. what bad advice do you speak of
@@mikecorleone6797 Your engine? What make and type?
My Webras are running since 1965, would that qualify enough for you?
Also, since then I've seen many an engine destroyed by malpractice like you mentioned.
@@brunovanhoek96 mine is a paw 60.. mid 70’s i believe.. compression release built right into the head.. i run it the way my grandfather ran it when new..
@@mikecorleone6797 So your grandfather preceded you in mistreating a PAW in a way both Gig an Tony never intended when they designed it?
And, obviously, you never were taught the proper way of handling model diesels later on.
Even now, any education in that sense seems to fall on deaf ears, so be it...
Do with your engine whatever you want, but please stop spreading misinformation about starting a model diesel.
Would probably start easier with a glow plug or a preheated cylinder
Put da torch to er
No it won't. It's a diesel. If you treat it right it will start first flip. If you don't it won't. It's mystery to me why people having the faintest clue about diesels coming up with such stupid ideas. If you don't know, don't react.
@@brunovanhoek96 treating it right is preheating the combustion chamber to aid the heat combustion. Not sure what this revolutionary technique you’re talking about is. People have been preheating diesels by different means for decades. Glow plugs just make the process easy.
@@wholelottamiata6976 People have never needed preheating of their diesels. Maybe car engines or such, but that's not what we're dealing with here. This is a model compression ignition engine, 'diesel' as we'd call them.
It's a matter of having the right amount of combustible mixture in the cilinder, enough compression and a quick, sharp flick to the prop.
Mixture would be assured by priming a few drops of fuel through the exhaust.
When flicked rightly, the engine should fire at least once, if it doesn't, increase compression, app. a quarter turn each time.
When it fires, keep increasing compression 1/8 turn each time.
The engine should start running short bursts.
When your lucky it keeps running, otherwise it might run up to high revs and then die: not enough fuel, open needle valve 1/4 turn and repeat the proces.
It could also run up slow down gradually then stop, spitting fuel all over the place. You guessed it: too rich
Close needle 1/2 a trun and try again. Beware, the engine is flooded now, so it might backfire in a vigorous way! I'd dry out the engine first by blowing through the open exhaust. No prime this time.
When the negine fires and runs, observe it's behaviour. Irregular revs, increase compression. When engine runs smooth, close the needle, until smoothness dissapears. Increase compression until smooth, etc. You come to a point that further closing the needle will give a drop in revs., back off a bit and that would be your initial needle setting.
When the engine heats up to working temperature, back off compression just enough to obtain maximum revs. In flight it will become clear if you'd need more fuel and/or some compression tweak.
This is , in a nutshell how you'd work your way towards the optimum settings, for that particular fuel and external circumstances.
For the pinnacle in diesel handling find video's that show F2C/team race.
@@brunovanhoek96 you do realize you took exactly what I said and just explained it right? “When the engine heats up to working temperature” you said it yourself, the engine must heat up to work properly. I never said it needed pre-heated, I said it would help. Learn the difference between something be absolutely necessary, or making something easier. That’s like me saying a math equation would be easier with a calculator, and you saying humans never needed calculators for mathematics, then proceeding to explain out the entire equation using old methods. No a calculator isn’t necessary, you’ll just spend 20minutes solving the problem and I’ll take 30 seconds. I suggested preheating because I do know how diesels work and all the guy is doing hear is creating heat every time he turns the engine over until eventually enough has transferred to the surrounding metal to not cool the mixture when it enters the combustion chamber. I don’t know if you noticed but that takes an eternity when hand propping. Using a torch or glow plug would just do it instantly and alleviate the need to turn the thing over for eons. My family is all old school farmers and they preheat the blocks of the older diesel tractors in the winter because you have to sit there cranking the thing for 5min to get it to start for the same reasons. You might get a puff out of it from time to time but it won’t just start right up like a modern glow plug diesel unless there’s already heat in the block.
Maybe pre heat the cylinder next time
No. Just handle it the way diesels should be handled and it will start first flick.
I had two of these motors and the key is to remove them from the wooden board and place them in the nearest bin. After you've done that, try to forget about the purchase and for the love of Jesus NEVER put one on an airplane. Electric motors work well in my experience.
I've had my share of trouble with electrics. These keep going when the magic smoke gets out 🤞
tHATS why we dropped out old vintage diesels in the bin.
Then send them to me, next time. I know how to handle those...
You need to make an adapter for your hand drill.
You sir, you have no clue. If you can't hand start a Webra record, please refrain from making such utterly stupid remarks.
Next time, rig up a battery powered drill to start it. 😜
No, you will destroy the engine. If you don't have any knowledge about diesels, please stay out of the conversation instead of making stupid remarks.
@@brunovanhoek96 If you're so smart, why don't you make a video about it. Besides, this is not your channel.
@@DD-uf2uo If people make stupid, incorrect remarks, I will tell them. When people can't understand simple, written language and need video's for understanding a simple thing like "Don't ever try to crank a small diesel with mechanical means, because you will destroy it" , I feel pity for them.
No, it's not my channel. What has that to do with the above? Again, if you don't have a clue -like you so obviously demonstrated with your remark about an electric drill-, don't respond. Unless you feel good when giving wrong information and enjoying the idea, you made someone destroy their precious little engine.
Que mierda es eso??
I strongly recommend not to fly with this airline🤣🤣🤣🤣
Вандал! Кто же такой палкой заводит? Этот моторчик легко пальцем можно завести. Моторы чувствовать надо! И они отзовуться!