I have a Bergara B-14r, and it is a little more accurate than my CZ 457 MTR. The thing I like about the B-14r, is that it is a 700 footprint. Any stock & any trigger. I installed a Jewell bench rest 1.5 - 3 oz. That made a world of difference. I wish I could get one for my MTR. I got a CZ 17 hmr, and replaced the barrel with a Lija straight taper with a Eley EPS chamber. That shoots lights out. I shoot bench rest only, and have been doing it starting with IR-50/50 years ago. You are one of the few guys on UA-cam that knows what he's talking about. Keep up the good work.
No I'm sorry but I don't think that any b14s will ever outshoot my cz457s you would have to show me. Don't think that will happen but I sure would like to see. Some of us ought to get together and see which one is best. Josh you should have a shootout between the two and make all things equal that would be a good video . Beagleman
The real deal with Match .22 LR ammo is the size of the chamber in a given rimfire weapon. When the chamber is short it will shoot top of the line ELEY best. If the chamber is long it will shoot top of the line LAPUA or similar RWS or SK best. Looking closely at a chambered and extracted - unfired - round will show rifling marks engraved on the surface of the projectile that entered a short chamber, or not, if it entered a Sport or Benz chamber and not a true short Match one. The ammo has to •match• the rimfire's chamber for accuracy/precision or whatever one calls proper shooting. The RWS R50 SC (Short Chamber)is the exception as it is designed for .22LR firearms with an ELEY sized competition chamber.
How do you determine if your rifle chamber is short or long 🤔 and which ammo is preferred with these rifles I saw a fellow shooting and older Anschutz and on the barrel it was engraved in rather large letters “ELEY AMMO ONLY” 😳 what size chamber does an Anschutz 1761 have , a 1710 Sporter and an MPR64 have ? The MPR64 shoots Eley Match well and SK LONG RANGE VERY GOOD at 200 yds. I know some target ammos are shorter and others slightly longer bullets can you give me some more info which of these rifles would prefer which brands of ammo ? Your comments are very interesting 😃Thank you very much 👍🏻
@@jimhamilton3544 The only Match chamber sizes that I am aware of concern the European, original, post-WWII Anschutz and Walther bolt action brands of single-shot or repeater rifles, that when tested were found to yield supreme consistency, accuracy and precision with a Match size .227" chamber in the Anschutz and a .225" Match size chamber in the Walther. The ammo used was similarly sized LAPUA Championship and ELEY Tenex with a projectile weight of 41.5-grains LAPUA Championship and 40-grains ELEY Tenex. The LAPUA Championship has long been discontinued since and replaced with modern versions just like in the case of ELEY, but what exactly these manufacturers are currently doing with their respective Match chambers is anyone's guess. At any rate, my late '50s Walther KKJ ( a sporter rifle ) has a .225" Match chamber. The chamber length is the standard SAAMI CIP for .22 Long Rifle; no variations there. My understanding is that the size of the Match chamber allows the engraving of the projectile's driving bands at the base, that is just ahead of the crimp and is short ( short chamber ) or shorter than in other makes. This is a critical area and has to be done perfectly or not bother at all. The rifling is therefore already engraving the base driving band of the .22 LR projectile upon chambering a live round, providing a consistent and repeatable pressure curve for each and every shot, provided the ammo conforms as well. The Italian Pardini SP Match pistol has a conical chamber, for instance, in order to 'force' a variety of LR ammo to conform upon chambering in a semi automatic, which needs a bit more leeway that a bolt action. In the States, late Winchester 52C Sporters were similarly made with Match or Benz, short chambers.
Just stumbled across your channel and subbed. This is something I’m just getting into and love the videos. I have a CZ 455 and picked up a Tikka T1X. I greatly appreciate what you’re doing. Thanks.
I know this is old.. but a proper feed that doesn’t disform the round is more important then the ammo you choose.. you could have a good rifle shoot everything well.. and a bad rifle shoot the best lot ever produced horribly.. Second there is less difference between ammo then there is in shooters.. Tbh I’ve seen cci velocitors put up better groups for most then brand X.. I’m a bit different them most though.. I prefer higher vol choices over slower match ammo for most days.. there is more deviation in wind changes for a 22lr at range then there is specific powder and centrifugal unity in a bullet. The less time that light bullet spends in the air the less effect atmospheric conditions have to effect that round.. Now if we are taking 50y target shooting.. that’s one thing. But when you start reaching out past 100 with a 22 most would be shocked how well a more basic higher velocity can do. You reach a point where they become equal.. (imop it’s around 125ish yards) and beyond that quality made higher vol rounds can perform better outside perfect conditions.. This is all based on prefit or regular manufacturer barrels and chambers mind you.. when you get into custom blanks hand fit and hand chambers to a specific lot or whatever then all bets are off there.. but a factory 457 or factory rpr, 22, 14 etc this is truth.. there is too much put on deviation from transonic and sub sonic.. I’ve tested this myself first had and seen 0 evidence of this with 22lr rounds over 12-15 years.. the bullets are just to light and influenced by other things
Ive actually found that pushing a 22lr with equivalent bc faster can cause it to be less stable in the wind. Speed only negates the time gravity can affect the projectile, not the wind effects etc. Take any ballistic software and use the same bullet with a 10mph 90 degree wind. Set target distance to 300 yards. Set mv to 1000 fps and then to 1150 fps. The faster projectile will require more wind hold.
I sort Norma tac 22 by rim thickness 65% avg .041” then heavy crimp with a cutting edge 22lr crimp die. Crimping reduces sd from 14.3 down to 12. It takes about 3.5 hours to sort and crimp the ones that I’ve chosen to uniform (.041” rims) but the ammo is consistently available and is $54 a 500 brick direct from norma
I buy Direct for norma too its so cheap you cant beat it. $0.08 a round when I purchased last. Im going to start sorting mine by thickness and weight, i bought a bolt shim kit as well. I cant force myself to get SK or Lapua. The Tac22 is just so cost friendly and not terrible.
If REALLY need accurate ammo you go to or send your rifle to a Lapua test center. They shoot as many lots as they have in stock in10 shot groups. Believe me it does make a difference!!! If you are a high end competitor it's the only way to go.
My CZ457LRP likes the SK Standard Plus. It likes the flatnose match too, but the avarage group sizes ar both the same for the flatnose and standard. Both gave me a .148 group @50meters. I weight sort my ammo, and every now and then I measure rim thickness. I'm located in Europe, and as soon as my buddy's CZ is in, we are going to the SK facility in Germany ;)
Yeah my czs loves sk standard and the sk match and shoot center x really good. I sure would love to go to that place where they make the standard plus i would buy all i could carry away. Love me some standard plus. Beagleman
CZ457 vs Bergara B14-R. Bergara uses AICS sized mag's made by Bergara that feed flawlessly. CZ uses tiny mags that are a pain to use. Sold my CZ452 and got a B14-R. Rem 700 footprint. Plenty of options for triggers, chassis, and ease of scope bases choices. The CZ457 did resolve the bolt throw and safety issues, but failed to address the scope mounting. Bergara checks all the boxes for me.
Interesting SK and lapua my 1761 is cut for rws r50 but has been going well with SK long-range match and flatnose can't wait to get my hands on lapua r50 and tenx see how that works out.
Wow the lilja is only putting out 1030fps? It’s really amazing how different each barrel can be. It just goes to say that there really isn’t a standard for .22’s. But one thing we know that lilja shoots some great groups!
Shooting Anshutz 54-30a with Athlon 10-40X50. Great optic for the price. some sub .2s with Elley Match at 50M. (I'm the limiting factor). Unfortunately cant find any Lapua or SK match out her in here in Aus. No Elley Tenx either. Very impressed with Athlon. as a product. TY for content.
cant get sk rifle match where i am at the moment, but was able to get 500 eley club. still breaking it in but one of the 5 shot groups today was 0.3moa. now i have to change how i do my targets so i can measure to a much finer degree than i have in the past. unlike sk which was slightly vertical in group and generally measured
finally picked up a bergara and I'm impressed with it so far. video idea for you Josh is truing a kestrel be it using dsf or bc or velocity. theres not alot of Info out there on doing so with a rimfire
Awesome brother, hope its shooting well for you. Yeah i noticed the same. I think that either Rick or Ray are already planning a video like that, dont want to step on their toes
love your channel. I live on a small island in Southeast alaska. I bought a 360 Vudoo. After a year and half I finally got 3 small boxes of Lapua long Range. my first 10 shots was the very best group Ive ever shot with that rifle. It was half the size of a dime, round hole!. So now Im convinced you're right. I need to find a place to order from. I need to get several boxes of Lapua brands, problem is they don't ship to alaska , I need to ship to Washington family and get it when I stop by. Do you have a favorite company you order from? By the way Ive shot a lot of SK standard plus, In my gun it LOVES Long Range
Lovin that liberty precision trophy. A lot of good info in this video for people in both bench and prs/nrl 22 thank you . My cz loves sk standard plus for bench and long range match for distance ie what distance I can shoot anyhow
Here in the Commie state of Kalifornia we have to do a background check. When we buy online it has to be sent to an FFL. Around me, they charge $50 for paperwork. So if you order a brick or two, you have to add tax and FFL fee, that could be another $65. Don't laugh, it may come to your state.
Not going to lie. I'll watch Rick live and you on replay. Keep then coming! I'm 2 weeks out on my V22 showing up and all I have is 2 boxs of SK rifle match and I lool daily for Lapua, SK, and Eley. I'm debating on shooting the few 100 rounds of SK I have then shipping it to Lapua. So another month or so without the new rifle....ugh.
I was think bout a lilja barrel . They are out of stock of the .900 . What do u recommend from them 1/16 twist or 1/9 . I want a tac driver ? Head space and bullets ? What works best for you . This is just for paper . I’m not doing any competition but if I wanted to I could . That’s how I want it set up .
Then if you are an idiot I'm a blooming idiot because I bought three 457czs and timmney triggers and three zeiss 3x18x5o for all three and also 419 rails and it just goes on. But like you said you can't take it with you. But I just love to shoot. Beagleman
The topics arent set and we talk about whatever comes up through the live participants. I have used vortex optics with success but the diamondback tactical, which is what i assume your referring to, is just not a good prs optic for the $$ compared to other market offerings. Please feel free to join the next livestream and add input to the conversation.
@@PursuitofAccuracy I use Vortex tacticals in 3-9 & 4-12x, they are "ok" for budget minded shooters and perform well under a wide variety of field conditions. However, for competition use where long range precision is vital!?, I would not pick one of these models, there are much better scopes out there that will not cost much more money, and will get the job done in competition, IMHO.
I have a Bergara B-14r, and it is a little more accurate than my CZ 457 MTR. The thing I like about the B-14r, is that it is a 700 footprint. Any stock & any trigger. I installed a Jewell bench rest 1.5 - 3 oz. That made a world of difference. I wish I could get one for my MTR. I got a CZ 17 hmr, and replaced the barrel with a Lija straight taper with a Eley EPS chamber. That shoots lights out.
I shoot bench rest only, and have been doing it starting with IR-50/50 years ago. You are one of the few guys on UA-cam that knows what he's talking about. Keep up the good work.
Appreciate ya.
Agree on the bergara. Only downfall is the magazines
No I'm sorry but I don't think that any b14s will ever outshoot my cz457s you would have to show me. Don't think that will happen but I sure would like to see. Some of us ought to get together and see which one is best. Josh you should have a shootout between the two and make all things equal that would be a good video .
Beagleman
The real deal with Match .22 LR ammo is the size of the chamber in a given rimfire weapon. When the chamber is short it will shoot top of the line ELEY best. If the chamber is long it will shoot top of the line LAPUA or similar RWS or SK best. Looking closely at a chambered and extracted - unfired - round will show rifling marks engraved on the surface of the projectile that entered a short chamber, or not, if it entered a Sport or Benz chamber and not a true short Match one. The ammo has to •match• the rimfire's chamber for accuracy/precision or whatever one calls proper shooting. The RWS R50 SC (Short Chamber)is the exception as it is designed for .22LR firearms with an ELEY sized competition chamber.
How do you determine if your rifle chamber is short or long 🤔 and which ammo is preferred with these rifles
I saw a fellow shooting and older Anschutz and on the barrel it was engraved in rather large letters “ELEY AMMO ONLY” 😳 what size chamber does an Anschutz 1761 have , a 1710 Sporter and an MPR64 have ? The MPR64 shoots Eley Match well and SK LONG RANGE VERY GOOD at 200 yds. I know some target ammos are shorter and others slightly longer bullets can you give me some more info which of these rifles would prefer which brands of ammo ? Your comments are very interesting 😃Thank you very much 👍🏻
@@jimhamilton3544 The only Match chamber sizes that I am aware of concern the European, original, post-WWII Anschutz and Walther bolt action brands of single-shot or repeater rifles, that when tested were found to yield supreme consistency, accuracy and precision with a Match size .227" chamber in the Anschutz and a .225" Match size chamber in the Walther. The ammo used was similarly sized LAPUA Championship and ELEY Tenex with a projectile weight of 41.5-grains LAPUA Championship and 40-grains ELEY Tenex. The LAPUA Championship has long been discontinued since and replaced with modern versions just like in the case of ELEY, but what exactly these manufacturers are currently doing with their respective Match chambers is anyone's guess. At any rate, my late '50s Walther KKJ ( a sporter rifle ) has a .225" Match chamber. The chamber length is the standard SAAMI CIP for .22 Long Rifle; no variations there. My understanding is that the size of the Match chamber allows the engraving of the projectile's driving bands at the base, that is just ahead of the crimp and is short ( short chamber ) or shorter than in other makes. This is a critical area and has to be done perfectly or not bother at all. The rifling is therefore already engraving the base driving band of the .22 LR projectile upon chambering a live round, providing a consistent and repeatable pressure curve for each and every shot, provided the ammo conforms as well. The Italian Pardini SP Match pistol has a conical chamber, for instance, in order to 'force' a variety of LR ammo to conform upon chambering in a semi automatic, which needs a bit more leeway that a bolt action. In the States, late Winchester 52C Sporters were similarly made with Match or Benz, short chambers.
Really enjoy your effort. Decided to learn more about 22's and figure out how to use and improve with what I have/inherited before moving up.
Many thanks for sharing with us your life time of valuable money and time saving experiences! Respect!
Just stumbled across your channel and subbed. This is something I’m just getting into and love the videos. I have a CZ 455 and picked up a Tikka T1X. I greatly appreciate what you’re doing. Thanks.
Appreciate it Ben. Sounds like a good pair of rimfires
I know this is old.. but a proper feed that doesn’t disform the round is more important then the ammo you choose.. you could have a good rifle shoot everything well.. and a bad rifle shoot the best lot ever produced horribly..
Second there is less difference between ammo then there is in shooters..
Tbh I’ve seen cci velocitors put up better groups for most then brand X..
I’m a bit different them most though.. I prefer higher vol choices over slower match ammo for most days.. there is more deviation in wind changes for a 22lr at range then there is specific powder and centrifugal unity in a bullet. The less time that light bullet spends in the air the less effect atmospheric conditions have to effect that round..
Now if we are taking 50y target shooting.. that’s one thing. But when you start reaching out past 100 with a 22 most would be shocked how well a more basic higher velocity can do. You reach a point where they become equal.. (imop it’s around 125ish yards) and beyond that quality made higher vol rounds can perform better outside perfect conditions..
This is all based on prefit or regular manufacturer barrels and chambers mind you.. when you get into custom blanks hand fit and hand chambers to a specific lot or whatever then all bets are off there.. but a factory 457 or factory rpr, 22, 14 etc this is truth.. there is too much put on deviation from transonic and sub sonic.. I’ve tested this myself first had and seen 0 evidence of this with 22lr rounds over 12-15 years.. the bullets are just to light and influenced by other things
Ive actually found that pushing a 22lr with equivalent bc faster can cause it to be less stable in the wind.
Speed only negates the time gravity can affect the projectile, not the wind effects etc.
Take any ballistic software and use the same bullet with a 10mph 90 degree wind.
Set target distance to 300 yards.
Set mv to 1000 fps and then to 1150 fps.
The faster projectile will require more wind hold.
I sort Norma tac 22 by rim thickness 65% avg .041” then heavy crimp with a cutting edge 22lr crimp die. Crimping reduces sd from 14.3 down to 12. It takes about 3.5 hours to sort and crimp the ones that I’ve chosen to uniform (.041” rims) but the ammo is consistently available and is $54 a 500 brick direct from norma
I buy Direct for norma too its so cheap you cant beat it. $0.08 a round when I purchased last. Im going to start sorting mine by thickness and weight, i bought a bolt shim kit as well. I cant force myself to get SK or Lapua. The Tac22 is just so cost friendly and not terrible.
If REALLY need accurate ammo you go to or send your rifle to a Lapua test center. They shoot as many lots as they have in stock in10 shot groups. Believe me it does make a difference!!! If you are a high end competitor it's the only way to go.
I agree with you Josh, I love Vortex but the Diamondback tactical was a disappointment. Returned it very quickly.
My CZ457LRP likes the SK Standard Plus. It likes the flatnose match too, but the avarage group sizes ar both the same for the flatnose and standard.
Both gave me a .148 group @50meters. I weight sort my ammo, and every now and then I measure rim thickness. I'm located in Europe, and as soon as my buddy's CZ is in, we are going to the SK facility in Germany ;)
Yeah my czs loves sk standard and the sk match and shoot center x really good. I sure would love to go to that place where they make the standard plus i would buy all i could carry away. Love me some standard plus.
Beagleman
I use my CZ457 in an MDT stock for benchrest. Barrel tuner has been fitted and using a Weaver fixed 36 scope. This gun is awesome.
CZ457 vs Bergara B14-R. Bergara uses AICS sized mag's made by Bergara that feed flawlessly. CZ uses tiny mags that are a pain to use. Sold my CZ452 and got a B14-R.
Rem 700 footprint. Plenty of options for triggers, chassis, and ease of scope bases choices.
The CZ457 did resolve the bolt throw and safety issues, but failed to address the scope mounting. Bergara checks all the boxes for me.
Really enjoyed the video, learned a lot, thanks
Appreciate it Scott
I use SK Match which seems to suit the gun.
Interesting SK and lapua my 1761 is cut for rws r50 but has been going well with SK long-range match and flatnose can't wait to get my hands on lapua r50 and tenx see how that works out.
Thank you for spending time on my 10/22 question. Appreciate your response. 👍🏻👍🏻
No problem at all
Wow the lilja is only putting out 1030fps? It’s really amazing how different each barrel can be. It just goes to say that there really isn’t a standard for .22’s. But one thing we know that lilja shoots some great groups!
Yeah like 1038. My mtr barrel shoots it around 1068
I keep missing your livestreams. Lots of wisdom here though.
Shooting Anshutz 54-30a with Athlon 10-40X50. Great optic for the price. some sub .2s with Elley Match at 50M. (I'm the limiting factor). Unfortunately cant find any Lapua or SK match out her in here in Aus. No Elley Tenx either. Very impressed with Athlon. as a product. TY for content.
If your in vic Australia.. refisch and co Ballarat have cent-x and sk long range match and tennex.
Good Talk, Josh. Thanks!
cant get sk rifle match where i am at the moment, but was able to get 500 eley club. still breaking it in but one of the 5 shot groups today was 0.3moa. now i have to change how i do my targets so i can measure to a much finer degree than i have in the past. unlike sk which was slightly vertical in group and generally measured
What chamber are you using in your match rifles?
Its a match chamber but im not sure what I would call it
Great information. Condensed version would be of more interest to me.
Id rather have complete information vs skimming the highlights but understand its too long for some
finally picked up a bergara and I'm impressed with it so far. video idea for you Josh is truing a kestrel be it using dsf or bc or velocity. theres not alot of Info out there on doing so with a rimfire
Awesome brother, hope its shooting well for you.
Yeah i noticed the same. I think that either Rick or Ray are already planning a video like that, dont want to step on their toes
@@PursuitofAccuracy so far so good. sighted in at 25 yards and ran it out to 535. only thing I dont like is the stiff cock on close
@@holdleftedgeandsendit9351 that will most likely smooth out with use
@@PursuitofAccuracy thats what I have heard i only have a 150 rounds through it
love your channel. I live on a small island in Southeast alaska. I bought a 360 Vudoo. After a year and half I finally got 3 small boxes of Lapua long Range. my first 10 shots was the very best group Ive ever shot with that rifle. It was half the size of a dime, round hole!. So now Im convinced you're right. I need to find a place to order from. I need to get several boxes of Lapua brands, problem is they don't ship to alaska , I need to ship to Washington family and get it when I stop by. Do you have a favorite company you order from? By the way Ive shot a lot of SK standard plus, In my gun it LOVES Long Range
For lapua and sk goodshootinginc and creedmoor. When its in stock it goes fast.
Blue collar reloading carries sk as well
thanks!
@@PursuitofAccuracy
I mean what’s the deal with match ammo?
(Jerry Seinfeld voice)
Lovin that liberty precision trophy. A lot of good info in this video for people in both bench and prs/nrl 22 thank you . My cz loves sk standard plus for bench and long range match for distance ie what distance I can shoot anyhow
Nice man. I will see ya out at the vod match on the 1st
What ammo do you find works well with the Browning T Bolt if any?
Great channel man.. down the rabbit hole I go lol !! Any suggestions for the RPRF
Honestly its a good rifle.....single feed it to get away from the rotary mags and see how it performs. Upgrade from there
Thanks I love your channel!! Wish I could find a cz you sold me on the cz !!!this will work for now . Great content you are a true pro
Here in the Commie state of Kalifornia we have to do a background check. When we buy online it has to be sent to an FFL. Around me, they charge $50 for paperwork. So if you order a brick or two, you have to add tax and FFL fee, that could be another $65. Don't laugh, it may come to your state.
Not going to lie. I'll watch Rick live and you on replay. Keep then coming! I'm 2 weeks out on my V22 showing up and all I have is 2 boxs of SK rifle match and I lool daily for Lapua, SK, and Eley. I'm debating on shooting the few 100 rounds of SK I have then shipping it to Lapua. So another month or so without the new rifle....ugh.
Haha i hear ya
Have you considered using Winchester T-22 target ammo for practice?
Like your stuff you guys can shoot real tight bug holes
Thanks
I was think bout a lilja barrel . They are out of stock of the .900 . What do u recommend from them 1/16 twist or 1/9 . I want a tac driver ? Head space and bullets ? What works best for you . This is just for paper . I’m not doing any competition but if I wanted to I could . That’s how I want it set up .
16 twist .900 way to go
Just saw this today at a Gunshop $17 a box of 50 rounds
Never seen sk or centre x ammo over here in Australia ,I use .22LR 22magnum rifle
Interesting Tony
I got mixt results with sk long
In cz455 antschutz 54 keppeler k05
I bought a shim kit for my CZ457 VPC from triggershims have you ever shimmed a stock bolt with those?
I have not
At what range do you feel the production barrel of the MTR start opening up to excessively to be competive?
In prs or nrl its competitive. If you want the extra edge its worth looking at lilja etc
Im down for a Athlon scope. Put me in draw
Do you know anyone that has Lothar Walther on their 457? Are they competitive or just go with Bartlein/Lilja?
I dont think I have seen one on a 457.
As I understand it lapua no longer makes SK Eley dose it now ?
Capstone precision owns lapua and sk.
Its very much still a lapua sister company
You're thinking of Wolf target which is now made by Ely where once RWS made it
Where do you get all those high end 22 bullets?
Goodshootinginc
Killough shooting sports
Creedmoor sports
Hey from Ireland . What inch lb do you torq Ur MTR at ?
Action screws i torque to 35 in lbs.
Welcome to the channel
@@PursuitofAccuracy Thanks for reply loving it keep it up plz
@@davidpyper82 I will, and much appreciated
Vudoo is 65 inch pounds. 🤷🏻♂️
Send me a new scope
Then if you are an idiot I'm a blooming idiot because I bought three 457czs and timmney triggers and three zeiss 3x18x5o for all three and also 419 rails and it just goes on. But like you said you can't take it with you. But I just love to shoot.
Beagleman
The topic was 22 LR ammo and then you’re bashing vortex optics didn’t understand the video allbad
The topics arent set and we talk about whatever comes up through the live participants.
I have used vortex optics with success but the diamondback tactical, which is what i assume your referring to, is just not a good prs optic for the $$ compared to other market offerings.
Please feel free to join the next livestream and add input to the conversation.
@@PursuitofAccuracy I use Vortex tacticals in 3-9 & 4-12x, they are "ok" for budget minded shooters and perform well under a wide variety of field conditions. However, for competition use where long range precision is vital!?, I would not pick one of these models, there are much better scopes out there that will not cost much more money, and will get the job done in competition, IMHO.
Poortex is just the most well advertised Chinese glass on the market is all.