It's a unitool (does only one thing very well). If I make a sled every 6 years, my 140 is well spent in something else while I use the online calculator of the five cut method.
Think beyond the jig. I've used it on production pieces to ensure certain other cuts in the final work piece are square or parallel. You have to let go of it just being a thing for making jigs.
@@ChrisHornberger So get a set of feeler gauges find the stack that fits in your cut, and then you can align those with the square. Probably more accurate. You can 3D print little blocks that are a perfect fit. You can use a square on the fence and a dial indicator. Woodworkers just don't know how to measure. I think the thing is actually a good deal compared to woodpecker. And people who can't measure should get one. I have lots of tools that were far too expensive and I just like...
By clamping a scrap to mitersaw or similar saws. You can set fences square. And making special jigs. I could see it as a huge time saver. Allowing me to even make one-time or experimental jigs quickly .
It’s not only one purpose although I haven’t figured out too many uses - one I did use it for was squaring my mitre saw fence. JKM also mentioned squaring up a track saw track which I haven’t figured out what he meant yet. Anyway it does make it much faster to get your crosscut fence dead on balls accurate (it’s an industry term)
If you can't find one, like you live in Mombasa, or Canada, just run the sled base (ply and two runners) through the saw, cutting the ply base in half. Then choose one side and align the fence with a square to the side of the kerf. If people think that won't work, I don't know why there is such a market in Woodpecker squares... Once you have one runner, ply base and fence aligned the second half of the base, (ply and one runner) doesn't have anywhere else to go other than perfect.
I come from a machinist background. I know that woodworking does not require the same level of accuracy, But I will say this. When dialing in my table saw, look to approach that level of accuracy, Why? Because your tool works a lot smoother the more accurate it is. My cheap Rigid contractor table saw cuts like butter because it is dialed in so well. Point being.....while that kind of accuracy is not mandatory, things go a lot smoother the more accurate you are. There is value in that. And sleds while not too expensive to build....the ability to build them quick and VERY accurate and to be reliable for their accuracy....for me there is value in that. Will eventually probably get that tool just for those reasons.
Yep, I totally agree that there is value in accuracy. I think it's up to each person to decide where that tradeoff line is, but hey at least the tool works as advertised, so that's nice!
Absolutely agree. I’ve been woodworking for over 45 years and think I’ve worked out what matters and what doesn’t. In some parts, accuracy (machinists accuracy) doesn’t matter; for instance the bottom of drawers where you might want the bottom to float in dados. For other, for instance, M&T, accuracy is required. I try to get my machines running as accurately as I can; as accurately as I can measure. I know that blades won’t run true, that wood moves, that temperature affects metal but if I can get the machines and jigs as good as I can, then I take away one part of potential inaccuracy. If you look at the hidden parts of high class antiques - the insides of carcasses, the backs and all the part we aren’t supposed to see, then you’ll see most are as rough as they could be. Why? Because they reserved accuracy for it mattered and not where it doesn’t.
Seriously, you have a machinist background, and you can't think your way around this 5 ways in the first 5 minutes? Call me skeptical. And everyone who says it saves time, had to wait for the thing to arrive.
Though this is subtle, but it is a common mistake to think that woodworking is not at the same level of accuracy as machining. It is a different approach. FWW, back when they had articles had a one pager on how the accuracy levels were basically the same. The simple example being the minuscule metal working level of error that allowed one to build a gap free picture frame.
@@HondoTrailside I’m not going to try to be sarcastic or demonstrate superior knowledge - because I’m confident enough not to need that. As I have said, there are times when “accuracy” is required and times when it is not. If you make mitred corners (as in a picture frame) on, for instance, a toppling for an outside container, then you will nice joints for a while but they will open with weather. So, choose what joint to use in order to allow for this movement and understand that wood will move. If you look at picture frames that were made 300, 400, 500 years ago, you will see open gaps in the corners. That is not a sign that the original makers couldn’t make good mitres but rather that the timber used has shrunk over the period. But then again, I’ve only been doing this for 45 years; so what do I know compared to others?
I don't think I have enough thoughts to make a whole video for that one. Summary: it's nice having a tape measure with a little screen to record measurements on it, but it's probably not worth what they're charging. I got it for a good bit cheaper through their kickstarter. My only real gripes other than price though are that it's kind of big, and the battery seems to drain a lot faster than I'd expect. Other than that, it works as advertised
Why would you build a sled with the kerf already cut? With two separate pieces of plywood for the base, rather than raising the blade through it once you have runners and the formica top in place?
The runners were already there, but the honest part about the formica coming later was that I simply got overexcited about trying the jig and didn't think it through! Definitely a fair callout
I used a large rafter square with a wedge in the kerf to hold it. This thing is a square that you put in a drawer for years at a time because it has less uses. Maybe if the flat piece had something else going on. Anything more would make it easier to sell.
Where did you find a rafter square that is 90 degrees? I must have measured 10 of them at the big orange box store and none of them were within 1 degree of square, so frustrating.
It seems more than accurate enough for woodworking. Is it worth its cost? Everyone will have a different answer to that. I guess factors include how often will it be used for any calibration? How tight is money for me at this time? I have bought one - but haven’t got it yet because it’s my calculation for me that I can justify the cost. To me. Over the last 45 years, I have bought many tools, many “you can’t live without this” items. In some ways, the bigger the hype, the more useless the article. I’ve given away most of my unforgivable purchases but there are a few that I keep so that I can remind myself that a fool and his money are soon parted - and also I’d be ashamed to admit to another I had bought it. I don’t put Katz Moses in this category at all. I think he designs very accurate tools and chooses his manufacturer (Hongdui?) carefully to ensure quality. So, the quality of the piece is not a factor for me. Whether it is value for money seems quite individual
Too much money for a nearly one use project. I just dropped a 1/8" piece of plexi. into the kerf and used a square or triangle to set up the fence. And that's good enough !
What about making the same principle with some scrap wood and some hardware for 5$ ? There is no tech or something so smart in this tool, it seems a simple square with some pin to keep it in place.
Yeah, for the home hobbyist I think this tool is a pretty hard sell. But the main intent is for it to be a trusted, very accurate, 90 degrees. Instead of a scrap wood jig, it'd probably be more precise to stick with the 5 cut method, rather than trying to cut a precise jig by hand, to then square up another handmade item.
One mistake. You need to measure from the pivot point to the other end of the fence. This gives you the error rate across the entire width of the sled.
That's a GREAT tool. However, how many times in your life will you use it?? Perhaps you could sell it to a WW club, recover your $140 and the club can rent it to anyone making a crosscut sled for about $25.00 6X and they are home free.
A uni-tool for $140 and you then still have to calculate and adjust? Maybe buy a Starrett precision square so you could make the sled and use the square on other projects. Just my 2 cents.
It’s one of those jigs if you belonged to a woodworking club or had a few guys close by that could buy it together it would be worth buying otherwise the price point doesn’t seem sensible to me.
if I understand well, you used a 140$ tool to build a 20$ sled... and that is the only thing you can build with it. Hope you make a lot of money with your woodworking products.
I WISH plywood was that cheap. It's even worse in reality, I spent $140 to build a sled that also cost almost $100 in materials, so that I can make crosscuts for my mediocre projects. As you can tell, my true strength is my financial decision making
I was just joking. Sorry. Didn't mean any disrespect. I just find tools that are only useful to build one item a little too much for a hobbiest like me. But for a professional like you, time is money. And I understand that with this tool, the building of the sled was very fast. And I'm sure you will find other uses for the gadget as it is a true 90 degree. Sorry again if my comment offended you. I don't comment often on social media.
@@amohtash it's all good! I was being a bit cheeky in my response too. I flattered you called me a professional though! Definitely still just a hobbiest who's been lucky enough to sink a fair bit of savings onto his tools
I just finished using my jig square. It's a joke. My framing square would have been closer. ua-cam.com/video/qSreetTMVe8/v-deo.html ua-cam.com/video/NRHhAhKtJPk/v-deo.html ua-cam.com/video/UsrMCuQCM9c/v-deo.html
Woah, yeah I saw your videos, that's wild. I tested mine 2 more times, and still am within hundredths of an inch. I'd reach out to KM Tools for yours, seems like a defect
Absolute waste of money when you can achieve the same or better accuracy using other methods mentioned above eg framing square and placing a long, thin, snug fitting shim in the kerf
Totally fair opinion! My only goal with this video was to share my thoughts on it and help people curious about the tool make informed decisions. I have no problem if that informed decision is to not buy it!
It really comes down to batch size. If he’s ordering in lots of 75-100 $140 is probably a reasonable price. If he’s ordering in lots of 1000 it could probably be sold for under $100. I would estimate $25-$35 just to put it together and pack it ready to ship. (20 minutes). If you’re ordering more than 10,000 you could probably have it made overseas and sell it for $50-$60. There are setup charges, taxes, legal fees for the patent filing which can run into tens of thousands of dollars. He also has to cover his development and prototyping costs. If someone gave you drawings and you have the necessary equipment you could probably make one in a couple of hours. Let’s see, machine shop time at $350 an hour, $140 doesn’t look so bad.
@@raymondbunkofske4702 The thing is, all of that matters little to an end user who's paying the money for these things. I won't pretend to know how his manufacturing process works, nor should anyone who's not directly involved honestly, but I know $140 is quite expensive for a one trick pony device. This is woodpeckers level of riding the name train. I'd pay $100 for this, easily, but at $140, I'll just use one of the countless tried and true methods. Probably the easiest method I've seen is to just use a shim that fits exactly in the kerf, and an accurate square to square the kerf to the fence. Much like this device. 5 cut to confirm. The JKM jig is an excellent device, but it's not really revolutionary.
Time is money... bought this thing at first sight! Can't wait to get it.
It's a unitool (does only one thing very well). If I make a sled every 6 years, my 140 is well spent in something else while I use the online calculator of the five cut method.
Think beyond the jig. I've used it on production pieces to ensure certain other cuts in the final work piece are square or parallel. You have to let go of it just being a thing for making jigs.
@@ChrisHornberger So get a set of feeler gauges find the stack that fits in your cut, and then you can align those with the square. Probably more accurate. You can 3D print little blocks that are a perfect fit. You can use a square on the fence and a dial indicator. Woodworkers just don't know how to measure.
I think the thing is actually a good deal compared to woodpecker. And people who can't measure should get one. I have lots of tools that were far too expensive and I just like...
By clamping a scrap to mitersaw or similar saws. You can set fences square. And making special jigs. I could see it as a huge time saver. Allowing me to even make one-time or experimental jigs quickly .
Thank you for testing out the Jig Square and sharing the building of your crosscut sled 🛷.
It’s not only one purpose although I haven’t figured out too many uses - one I did use it for was squaring my mitre saw fence. JKM also mentioned squaring up a track saw track which I haven’t figured out what he meant yet. Anyway it does make it much faster to get your crosscut fence dead on balls accurate (it’s an industry term)
If you can't find one, like you live in Mombasa, or Canada, just run the sled base (ply and two runners) through the saw, cutting the ply base in half. Then choose one side and align the fence with a square to the side of the kerf. If people think that won't work, I don't know why there is such a market in Woodpecker squares... Once you have one runner, ply base and fence aligned the second half of the base, (ply and one runner) doesn't have anywhere else to go other than perfect.
I come from a machinist background. I know that woodworking does not require the same level of accuracy, But I will say this. When dialing in my table saw, look to approach that level of accuracy, Why? Because your tool works a lot smoother the more accurate it is. My cheap Rigid contractor table saw cuts like butter because it is dialed in so well. Point being.....while that kind of accuracy is not mandatory, things go a lot smoother the more accurate you are. There is value in that. And sleds while not too expensive to build....the ability to build them quick and VERY accurate and to be reliable for their accuracy....for me there is value in that. Will eventually probably get that tool just for those reasons.
Yep, I totally agree that there is value in accuracy. I think it's up to each person to decide where that tradeoff line is, but hey at least the tool works as advertised, so that's nice!
Absolutely agree. I’ve been woodworking for over 45 years and think I’ve worked out what matters and what doesn’t. In some parts, accuracy (machinists accuracy) doesn’t matter; for instance the bottom of drawers where you might want the bottom to float in dados. For other, for instance, M&T, accuracy is required.
I try to get my machines running as accurately as I can; as accurately as I can measure. I know that blades won’t run true, that wood moves, that temperature affects metal but if I can get the machines and jigs as good as I can, then I take away one part of potential inaccuracy.
If you look at the hidden parts of high class antiques - the insides of carcasses, the backs and all the part we aren’t supposed to see, then you’ll see most are as rough as they could be. Why? Because they reserved accuracy for it mattered and not where it doesn’t.
Seriously, you have a machinist background, and you can't think your way around this 5 ways in the first 5 minutes? Call me skeptical. And everyone who says it saves time, had to wait for the thing to arrive.
Though this is subtle, but it is a common mistake to think that woodworking is not at the same level of accuracy as machining. It is a different approach. FWW, back when they had articles had a one pager on how the accuracy levels were basically the same. The simple example being the minuscule metal working level of error that allowed one to build a gap free picture frame.
@@HondoTrailside I’m not going to try to be sarcastic or demonstrate superior knowledge - because I’m confident enough not to need that. As I have said, there are times when “accuracy” is required and times when it is not. If you make mitred corners (as in a picture frame) on, for instance, a toppling for an outside container, then you will nice joints for a while but they will open with weather. So, choose what joint to use in order to allow for this movement and understand that wood will move. If you look at picture frames that were made 300, 400, 500 years ago, you will see open gaps in the corners. That is not a sign that the original makers couldn’t make good mitres but rather that the timber used has shrunk over the period.
But then again, I’ve only been doing this for 45 years; so what do I know compared to others?
FWIW I use hard board for the surfaces in my shop. Screw it down counter sunk. When its trashed beyond saving, burn pile.
I bought one and love it
Remember this tool can also be used to square a miter saw fence or even help to get a tracksaw fence square to a cut
Hey, can we get a video on that tape you’re using? I’ve seen it around but would love to know what you think.
I don't think I have enough thoughts to make a whole video for that one. Summary: it's nice having a tape measure with a little screen to record measurements on it, but it's probably not worth what they're charging.
I got it for a good bit cheaper through their kickstarter. My only real gripes other than price though are that it's kind of big, and the battery seems to drain a lot faster than I'd expect. Other than that, it works as advertised
I’m glad ya asked!
Why would you build a sled with the kerf already cut? With two separate pieces of plywood for the base, rather than raising the blade through it once you have runners and the formica top in place?
The runners were already there, but the honest part about the formica coming later was that I simply got overexcited about trying the jig and didn't think it through! Definitely a fair callout
I used a large rafter square with a wedge in the kerf to hold it. This thing is a square that you put in a drawer for years at a time because it has less uses. Maybe if the flat piece had something else going on. Anything more would make it easier to sell.
Yep. And it ain't cheap. An 1/8" shim in the kerf, or the lip on your Swanson speed square will do exactly the same thing.
Where did you find a rafter square that is 90 degrees? I must have measured 10 of them at the big orange box store and none of them were within 1 degree of square, so frustrating.
Did you add a 45 degree bevel to the same sled?
Get cheap plastic blinds, cut strings and you have perfect runners for laying Formica
Would like to get one but it’s 3 month wait with my money….
It seems more than accurate enough for woodworking. Is it worth its cost? Everyone will have a different answer to that. I guess factors include how often will it be used for any calibration? How tight is money for me at this time? I have bought one - but haven’t got it yet because it’s my calculation for me that I can justify the cost. To me.
Over the last 45 years, I have bought many tools, many “you can’t live without this” items. In some ways, the bigger the hype, the more useless the article. I’ve given away most of my unforgivable purchases but there are a few that I keep so that I can remind myself that a fool and his money are soon parted - and also I’d be ashamed to admit to another I had bought it.
I don’t put Katz Moses in this category at all. I think he designs very accurate tools and chooses his manufacturer (Hongdui?) carefully to ensure quality. So, the quality of the piece is not a factor for me. Whether it is value for money seems quite individual
you wanna sell yours since you made your sled?
Thought I was watching an early version km video. 😮
Too much money for a nearly one use project. I just dropped a 1/8" piece of plexi. into the kerf and used a square or triangle to set up the fence. And that's good enough !
What about making the same principle with some scrap wood and some hardware for 5$ ? There is no tech or something so smart in this tool, it seems a simple square with some pin to keep it in place.
Yeah, for the home hobbyist I think this tool is a pretty hard sell. But the main intent is for it to be a trusted, very accurate, 90 degrees. Instead of a scrap wood jig, it'd probably be more precise to stick with the 5 cut method, rather than trying to cut a precise jig by hand, to then square up another handmade item.
I have a piece of thick cardboard that is the exact size as the kerf of my blade and I use that with a square I know is accurate.
One mistake. You need to measure from the pivot point to the other end of the fence. This gives you the error rate across the entire width of the sled.
That's a GREAT tool. However, how many times in your life will you use it?? Perhaps you could sell it to a WW club, recover your $140 and the club can rent it to anyone making a crosscut sled for about $25.00 6X and they are home free.
A uni-tool for $140 and you then still have to calculate and adjust? Maybe buy a Starrett precision square so you could make the sled and use the square on other projects. Just my 2 cents.
It’s one of those jigs if you belonged to a woodworking club or had a few guys close by that could buy it together it would be worth buying otherwise the price point doesn’t seem sensible to me.
Yep, or maybe you run a shop where jigs get build and rebuilt often?
@@imadeathing91 Sue my mindset was thinking as a hobbiest.
if I understand well, you used a 140$ tool to build a 20$ sled... and that is the only thing you can build with it. Hope you make a lot of money with your woodworking products.
I WISH plywood was that cheap. It's even worse in reality, I spent $140 to build a sled that also cost almost $100 in materials, so that I can make crosscuts for my mediocre projects. As you can tell, my true strength is my financial decision making
I was just joking. Sorry. Didn't mean any disrespect. I just find tools that are only useful to build one item a little too much for a hobbiest like me. But for a professional like you, time is money. And I understand that with this tool, the building of the sled was very fast. And I'm sure you will find other uses for the gadget as it is a true 90 degree. Sorry again if my comment offended you. I don't comment often on social media.
@@amohtash it's all good! I was being a bit cheeky in my response too. I flattered you called me a professional though! Definitely still just a hobbiest who's been lucky enough to sink a fair bit of savings onto his tools
Sorry, but IMO KM charges too much for these tools. Perhaps he is channeling his inner Wood Pecker or TSO persona. ?
I just finished using my jig square. It's a joke. My framing square would have been closer.
ua-cam.com/video/qSreetTMVe8/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/NRHhAhKtJPk/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/UsrMCuQCM9c/v-deo.html
Woah, yeah I saw your videos, that's wild. I tested mine 2 more times, and still am within hundredths of an inch. I'd reach out to KM Tools for yours, seems like a defect
Absolute waste of money when you can achieve the same or better accuracy using other methods mentioned above eg framing square and placing a long, thin, snug fitting shim in the kerf
Totally fair opinion! My only goal with this video was to share my thoughts on it and help people curious about the tool make informed decisions. I have no problem if that informed decision is to not buy it!
$140? JKM is just taking advantage of his fanbase now. All too common with big time influencers.
It really comes down to batch size. If he’s ordering in lots of 75-100 $140 is probably a reasonable price. If he’s ordering in lots of 1000 it could probably be sold for under $100. I would estimate $25-$35 just to put it together and pack it ready to ship. (20 minutes). If you’re ordering more than 10,000 you could probably have it made overseas and sell it for $50-$60. There are setup charges, taxes, legal fees for the patent filing which can run into tens of thousands of dollars. He also has to cover his development and prototyping costs. If someone gave you drawings and you have the necessary equipment you could probably make one in a couple of hours. Let’s see, machine shop time at $350 an hour, $140 doesn’t look so bad.
@@raymondbunkofske4702 The thing is, all of that matters little to an end user who's paying the money for these things. I won't pretend to know how his manufacturing process works, nor should anyone who's not directly involved honestly, but I know $140 is quite expensive for a one trick pony device. This is woodpeckers level of riding the name train. I'd pay $100 for this, easily, but at $140, I'll just use one of the countless tried and true methods. Probably the easiest method I've seen is to just use a shim that fits exactly in the kerf, and an accurate square to square the kerf to the fence. Much like this device. 5 cut to confirm.
The JKM jig is an excellent device, but it's not really revolutionary.
Yeah not worth it…… I should buy one and rent it out lol
Answer to the title question: No.
Too expensive.