I once played Githyanki Barbarian (3) + Warlock (9) with Silver Sword of Astral Plane so I guess that counts as having a barbarian mix into caster. The logic was the following: 3 levels of Barbarian for Bear Heart -- resistance to all but psychic damage, and the Sword gives resistance to psychic. 9 levels of Blade Warlock for extra attack + charisma scaling + lvl5 spell slots + Otherworldly Leap. Loop: 1. Precast Armor of Agathys at level 5. 2. Precast Otherworldly Leap right before fight. 3. Optionally gather people with minor illusion and throw a lvl5 fireball there to start the fight. Otherwise the fight somehow started. 4. Throw a Fireball if you didn't do it yet. Rage. 5. Leap into battle with lvl5 Armor of Agathys on you. Note it's 25 temporary HP is doubled no questions asked because bear rage + gith sword. 6. Short rest and you're ready for the next battle. You have a spell slot to replenish Armor of Agathys you probably lost or at least lost and a spell slot to fireball at the beginning of the next battle. Variant: tiger barbarian for AoE but less Armor of Agathys durability against elemental damage. Somewhat matches giths gish nature. Downside: 3 rages is not enough when Bard is in the party. Other than that, it was very fun. You throw a fireball, then rage at the fact you only have that many spell slots.
For wizard I actually just discovered yesterday that for ritual spells, if you cast like long strider, then replace it with something else in the spellbook, it removes the buff from all the characters
It’s funny I actually just tried a Wizard Barb - basically just one dip to get armoured defense via constitution and wielding a shield 🛡️ and he got really high AC and ain’t losing concentration nor getting hit 😂
Sorcerer draconic bloodline gives you a similar benefit. With white dragon ancestry you also get Armour of Agathys that can be upcasted with your wizard spellslots. Granted you don't get the shield proficiency but I like to go for dual wield feat anyway to get double caster staves (it also gives you 1AC when dual wielding).
Just thought of this also. Putting the amulet of greater health on my wizard so I can dump constitution, take a 1 level dip into barb for their unarmoured defense and have my AC be 16 + Dex is kinda insane.. all of that only costs a 1 level dip and a necklace that most wizards would have equipped anyways
Dipping into Light Cleric for 1 level is stupid good for other casters also - like S Tier, for the Flare reaction (like a free constant Shield spell) and access to Sanctuary, as well as Medium Armor and Shield proficiency.
@@CMiY0 - Since apparently you don’t know, the flare reaction from Light Cleric *also adds 5 AC in the EXACT same way that Shield does. The only REAL difference is that Shield will stop Magic Missiles and Flare won’t.
@@parabiology1014 No it doesn't. "Shield yourself with divine light. Use your reaction to impose Disadvantage Icon.png Disadvantage on an attacker, possibly causing their attack to miss."
Cleric is definitely S tier imo. 1. It's a full caster so it won't slow down your spell slot progression. 2. You can get heavy armor proficiency with the right subclass, and unlike with something like paladin you get the proficiency from the subclass instead of the class so you don't have to pick it level 1. 3. Many of the spells and sublass abilities are very useful to almost any caster: create water, sanctuary, warding bond etc. I always take a level of cleric for any arcane caster for the armor proficiency. My wizard sits at higher AC than the fighter! (The fighter wants 2-handed weapon but the wizard can use a shield)
I love the Mystic Theurge style build of a 11 Cleric and 1 Wiz. Best of both worlds in terms of spell options, and from a roleplay perspective, I feel it works as a Cleric of Mystra in that you get her divine power, plus have access to the Weave from her. Also gives some interesting dialogue choices when talking to Gale, if you play this Mystic Theurge as your primary.
I think Cleric is S tier. It is the only way to get heavy armor proficiency while maintaining spell slot progression, level 1 subclass with lots if strong options, level 2 channel divinity likewise. Most of their best low level spells do not require wisdom, or are healing where it barely matters. I would rate cleric as just about the best caster dip out there simply because 1 level is so outrageously front loaded and versatile. Fighter an Wizard do compete with it, and there are combinations that are better, but if your talking multiclassing any caster, it's hard to beat cleric.
This was a lot of fun. I am a big fan of the 4 Thief / 8 Swords Bard. But a four level Sorcerer dip should rank above the four level rogue dip. Those for thief levels will get you an extra bonus action, but you lose fifth and sixth level spell slots. For most casters, that is a significant loss. A four level Sorcerer dip turns any spell into a bonus action. You do not lose any spell slots. The sorcerer is getting you more. The rogue does give you expertise plus the benefits of being a thief or assassin, but the sorcerer gives you first and second level spells plus the benefits of storm, wild, or draconic bloodline sorcery. I would say sorcerer at least deserves to be at the top of A or the bottom of S.
In my first play through I used a Bard-9, Rogue-3. And the Bard I used the Sword Class. I could just sit and shoot 2 bolts from my cross bow every turn about 2-3 times with haste sometimes 3-4 it’s super powerful. I had a blast with it. Now I’m playin through, with a Monk-9, Rogue- 3 and it’s way more powerful and amazing than the Bard was. Like, taking bosses down in one turn good.
For bard you really want magical secrets if possible so it’s never going to be a 4lvl dip if you’re a different caster class. 10lvls of lore bars with any of the other caster classes though is definitely an elite controller. Even 6lvls lore bard can be a game changer if you’re only rocking one caster in the group.
Agreed - there’s pretty much no reason to go more than 10 levels in any bard class. Depending on subclass, one could go with virtually any subclass. 10 valour bard and 2 OoV pally is awesome, as in 10 lore bard and 2 warlock or sorcerer, or, indeed, combining a level of wizard and cleric for support. Swords bards have less reason to go up to lv 10, but still, one could do worse.
@@Caesius1208 exactly. Currently rocking 4swords bard/6 bm fighter to try it out. Might end up being a 6/6 or 8/4 reverse split depending on how much casting I want to do.
Dont Swords Bards still get Banishing Smite at level 10? Banishing Smite+Divine Smite on top sounds gruesome af, if very spell slot heavy.@@Caesius1208
I think rogue is B tier, at best. Loss of spell slot progression, most subclasses give little benefit, and Thief really only helps very specific spells that have bonus action uses every turn like spiritual weapon. Cunning action is nice but you can probably avoid needing it as a caster with good gameplay. Niche. I think Bard is better, even just for charisma synergy and spell slot progression.
Great video, but I have to disagree on the Ranger. If you are a caster, but want armour, combat style, hide as a bonus action, resistance to an element, and maybe a healing spell if you are a Wizard, then you can get all that with Ranger.
The only things fighter gets at level 1 are armor proficiency, weapon proficiency, Constitution save proficiency, and a heal spell. The Constitution Save proficiency is very important, but the other abilities you could have gained the same or more by going a level into Cleric instead. You could get the exact same armor and Martial Weapon proficiency by taking a level in War Cleric or Tempest Cleric, but you get additional spell slots, and get the healing power and other great level 1 Cleric spells (especially Sanctuary!) as well, most of which don’t require Wisdom. Plus you get great channel divinity and reaction abilities from the Cleric. It’s a tough call because of the Constitution Save proficiency, and will come down to personal preferences, but I think a Cleric dip would have been more beneficial.
@@parabiology1014 Concentration was the deciding factor for me. When you only get 3 spell slots max you really need your concentration spells to hold up. I abused Bestow Curse throughout all of act 3 because the Staff of Cherished Necromancy makes the spellsave really high. I made Raphael skip every one of his turns lol. It was pretty insane.
I really like having even just 2 levels of rogue so i can dash/disengage as a bonus action, then launch a spell. The option to dash and such as bonus action saves me a lot of spell slots i would have been spending on misty step.
I really like adding a Lv 2 GOO Warlock to my classes. Eldritch Blast, Hellish Rebuke, Hex, Mortal Reminder, Agonizing Blast (Pump Cha or swap), and Devil's Eyes are great on all classes.
He might have picked up Shovel during that playthrough. That’s the build I ran. It plays like a level 12 blaster warlock with a delayed spell progression but it gives way more spell slots, healing, Bardic Inspiration, better face, extra short rest, magical secrets and hand crossbow proficiency.
If you get the 17 int headband, you can put it on your 10 int character with the wizard dip, to select four wizard spells, then remove it and retain them all. You don't lose them, so you can carry around shield and 3 other utility spells.
Watching vids vs twitch stream is such a dynamic that is so cool to watch. Twitch lover here that respects the no-fuss down to the point vids. But when i feel like having a chill and fun arvo, i put your playthrough in the background while i play bg3 or overwatch (to stop me tilting)
@@italianspartacus hang-on. Let me drop the political "W" word in some comments on vids 😉 I'm Aussie so love your humour. Very refreshing to see these days mate
I had a character I went two in storm clecric and the rest in mountain druid picked all the lighting spells still had level 10 third attack while in wildshape gave me crazy utility and big damage when i needed it with upcasting call lighting or lighting bolt. still was able to tank in both forms with heavy arm and shield
One of my favorite multi classes has been a sorcerer spellsword. 1 fighter, 3 rogue (thief), and the rest sorcerer. Can be front line and ranged casting. Can make rogue go to 4 of you really want the extra feat
A little confused on how rogue 4 gets you an extra feat since 1 fighter 4 rogue and 7 sorcerer will still only get 2 feats, unless you mean dropping the first fighter level for rogue to go 4 rogue/8 sorc
It wouldn't be great for honor mode, but barbarian/Warlock works pretty well on any difficulty that lets Pact of the Blade get you that 3rd attack. Also, Hellish Rebuke still works while you are raging. I believe all reaction spells do from what I saw of my last run and having Counterspell proc while raging. I would expect that to eventually be patched out, but Warlock has some good things last long enough for combat and don't require concentration especially when you add in their Invocations. Armor of Agathys, Minions of Chaos, Lifedrinker (if you are running a mod that lets you go past level 12), and Create Undead being my favorite things that still work while raging. I really like doing this while running a healing combo of Sword of Chaos, Ring of Regeneration, and Periapt of Wound Closure. Healing a minimum 4 hp per round, 10 if you land one hit, 16 for 2, 22 if you land all 3 hits makes a raging barbarian really hard to remove from the field.
Just wanted to throw another option out: Wild Magic Barb can restore spell slots for a Paladin's Smites. I don't think this moves it up at all, but there is something there. I also think Paladin/Barb multiclass is okay in general. Not sure if this was discussed in the prior vid (didn't see it), but this is what jumped into my head.
I would bump a couple, specifically Bard up by one, if you have bard levels and high Chr you can breeze through a bunch of social interactions. Sure, it's not combat specific, but Bard's power in conversations can remove the need for combat in a lot of places. Plus it is a full caster, which means 4 levels of bard doesn't slow your spell casting max level. The other. is Warlock, but it's because Eldritch Blast, Agonizing Blast, and Devil's Sight is just that good. Esp GOO Lock fearing those you crit on. Fear is just that good IMO. Otherwise, 2 levels in Fighter, 2 levels in Wizard. Get a lot of utility. I often using the 20 level mod, take 2 fighter, 2 Wizard, 4 Warlock, and 12 Sorceress just for a powerful build. (Yeah I know mods shouldn't count on this tier list, but it does allow me to see what pairs best with my Sorcery builds.
I played a wildmagic barbarian + wildmagic sorc just because it seemed interesting. you can cast reactions (like shield) while raging, so a nice 8/4 barb/sorc split gets you great defensive tools to match up with some interesting chaos. It might be D tier, but it is wildly playable (pun intended) when you take sorc as a defense/react/buff caster and forgo concentration.
Fighter is a class that's best to multi-class but also best to not multi-class. Action surge is goated but if you're wanting to main fighter, you'll likely want 11 levels to get improved extra attack. It's the only class in honor mode that can get it. And if you don't go full 12 at that point, you'll miss out on a feat. Decisions, decisions...
2 bard levels are very interesting if you get a lot of classes in your party which get back their abilities on a short rest (fighters, warlock and so on)
Barbarian should be higher simply because it allows you to dump STR *and* DEX, and yet still improve your robe AC with CON. Which adds a whole shit load of options for Sorc, WL and Bard when you wear robes. As a PMC you can spend those points on Wis checks even as a CHA caster. And 3 levels in Barb lets you run Bear Heart and get res to damage as you reposition. Granted, you need to cast before you rage, but that's fine. Misty Step is a bonus action, and if you are desperate to move without using movement, you can fall back on that. The AC bonus alone is worth looking at.
I can already tell that you're underestimating Ranger. As such, let me add my opinions as you go. My first thought is that you think to "multiclass" you have to put 4 levels into a class, which is definitely not the case. Less is often better. Ranger Knight; Heavy armor, and a favored terrain resistance to fire/cold/poison. As well as martial weapons. You don't need more than a 1 level dip. Now sure if you're putting 4 levels into it, it's less useful, but... don't put that much into it? C, pushing B tier. Worse than warlock, better than monk for sure. Bard deserves a pretty big bump up, even to A possibly. 2 levels for expertise and song of rest without losing any spellslot progression, absolutely amazing. Quick note, magic missile is not targeting AC, it just hits. Not quite sure where you got the AC/attack roll thing from. as mentioned elsewhere, you can't get pact of the chain at level 2. You need at least warlock 3 for that so your described build doesn't work. That said, warlock is... fine in B tier. It's worse than bard, though. Has some tricks but nothing that stands out more than expertise and song of rest, for sure. Cleric is S tier due to it's innate versatility and power; war, tempest, and life all get heavy armor. the others get medium. You keep spell slot progression, and light cleric has an amazing reaction, and tempest actually breaks the game if used right. Paladin 2, Warlock 10. Paladin is S tier. Yes, you are very heavy on melee, but you're still a full caster. Just because warlocks can use melee doesn't mean they aren't caster classes. Sorcerer is also super huge here. Paladin 2 is on the same level as Fighter 2. More or less agree on rogue/sorcerer, but again, you don't need 4 levels for either of them. 3 is necessary for the strongest features here, at least, so getting a feat isn't *bad*. Also, Ray of Sickness is NOT a great spell. It's F tier. Do not ever include it next to magic missile and shield. Wizard is S+ simply because, with a little stat investment or an item or a couple levels, you have access to literally every arcane spell in the game. On a cleric or bard or druid or warlock this is insane. Just insane. This also gives you access to the secret spells in act 3 forever, instead of just as scrolls. Which means everyone needs at least 1 character with a wizard dip if they want the best spells. So in other words, I disagree with this list a lot, but that's how these things go.
if I'm running a build that uses Clothing armor (Graceful Cloth, Potent Robe, etc), sometimes I'll dip 1 level of barb just to get +CON to my AC, pretty nice defensive bump (my problem with monk Unarmored Defense is you can't wear a shield, which I often want to do, barb Unarmored Defense does work with a shield)
Paladin is a tough one. Divine smite dips are good, but as caster you wont have extra attack so its likely you'll only have one attack. And unless you're a warlock, that attack isn't using charisma. Its still ok, but not A tier imo, and paladin offers little else you can't get better versions of with cleric or fighter. Imo paladin smite builds work best with a split of levels, like paladin 6 sorcerer 6.
Works very well with a sword bard. You get the extra attack from sword bard, haste from magical secrets, strength from elixir of hill giant strength. With this setup, the helmet of arcane acuity, and a little help from hypnotic pattern, you can easily solo most fights in the game.
Cutting off at 4 levels really hurts warlock. Level 5 gets incredible features for blade (extra attack) and tome (free cast of call lightning, haste, animate undead once per long rest). Typical warlock cutoffs for multiclassing are 1 (for command or AoA), 2 (for eldritch invocation), 3 (for pact of blade weapon scaling on cha), or 5 (for the features mentioned above). Other than the feat, a 4th level of warlock is not nearly as impactful as a 3rd or 5th, imo. Also, with regards to cleric not getting heavy armor, some of the best subclasses do get it (war and tempest I believe). Tempest in particular is a strong caster multiclass for destructive destructive wrath and heavy armor.
Id probably put cleric in A because they r the only way to get heavy armor without slowing spell slot progression, and spells like bless, healing word, and sanctuary r super strong. Id probably bump pali and rogue down to B.
I gotta say, 10 Lore Bard + 2 Warlock sounds wonderful. I imagine it'd help me preserve a few spell slots to keep that train going a little longer - and there's no need to talk about how great Eldritch Blast is. Is there an optimal point at which I should make this dip?
To your point though it's a bad example. If it's a DC save or an attack roll you add your caster stat bonus. Spells like feather fall, shield, haste are the examples you want
Sweet. Just got to level 12 with my sorc, having decision fatigues about multiclassing with destructive wrath route or pure sorc, chain lightning just too good
Also, a 1 level dip of Cleric is EASILY S+++ tier, it's the best 1 level dip in a class, period. The best 2 level dip (start with it) is Fighter, and THAT'S not even close. Those two dips outweigh a feat easily.
I don’t get your perspective on rogue at all. Which caster class gets more value from an extra bonus action than they do their lvl 6 and a lvl 5 spell slot plus their lvl 10 ability?
I would move thief rogue up to an S tier **if** you got the extra bonus action at lvl2. Being at 3, you either have to go 4 levels to get the feat, or you miss out on potentially 2 feats if you also multi-class into another 2. For example, a sorlock with 2 thief, 2 lock, 8 sorc would get 2 feats, agonizing blast, and quickened spell with TWO extra bonus actions. Holy $H!T... but since it takes 3 levels, you could only go 7 levels into sorc and lose the feat and sorc points. Oh well... Can we move max level to 13? 😁
I use an oath breaker level 5 level 5 warlock with 2 levels in fighter for action surge I always haste my fighter every turn so I’m able to hit 9 times in a turn
ok so im going to be VERY critical here - and despite being subbed for a long ass time I'm also going to leave you a dislike because your giving out a lot of bad info here, some of it was outright wrong. (eg magic missile is NOT an attack roll). Additionally you really cant make a video on this subject without talking about save proficiency which is determined by the first class you take - its super important for casters. lets address your D tier first: barbarian: is in fact A tier (for a 1 lvl drop at lvl 1), it gives all weapons, it gives proficiency in CON saves (great for maintaining concentration) and it gives AC bonus based on CON - so if your not a dragon sorc and want to wear a robe its very good. A further build that I still need to test: 3 lvls and berzerker it allows you a throw as a bonus action, wet targets take DOUBLE DAMAGE from lightning and cold so for a caster focused on either of these lobbing water bottles is a huge buff. I think I'm going to try a barbarian storm druid at some point. - need to learn to think outside the box more sparty when it comes to builds. Ranger: can give all armour all weapons and a resist taken at ANY lvl - does not have to be first lvl. x sorc 1 ranger is damn good - gets you extra benefits and does not cripple your casting. its a simple question of would you trade 1 feat for all armour, all weapons and a resist? Druid: ok druid is not great for less than 5 lvls. 5 lvl + for multiclass spell caster can be great though. and at 2 it gives wild shape, so if your a transmuter type of wizard wild shape can be both useful and thematic. with a 1 lvl splash on a cleric or any one with decent wis It gives shillelagh which can be awesome now on to C tier: monk - yeh ok.. monk is not good unless you invest atleast 5 lvls, ideally 6 minimum - and a pure caster that does that is no loinger a pure caster, they are mele hybrid. bard: oh BOY.. you are so wrong, so very very very wrong here. Bard is S tier for 3 lvl dip, 1 lvl dip or 6 lvl even split! the skills, and extra short rest are HUGE - but even more important is the fact bard is a full casting class itself, so you do not lose out on any spell slot lvls. Further more bard spellsknown and castable are not dependent on cha - so you pick up all your utility spells here giving you essentially EXTRA spells castable from your main class. up to 6 lvls in bard is a great multiclass with wizard, cleric(fighty one), druid(spores) and 1 to 3 lvls are perfectly decent with all caster classes. regarding the others - well fighter is not s tier, 2 fighter is where it is at for a caster build and that costs you your lvl 6 spell slot - its a fair trade off, but not s tier wizard - sure wizard is s tier, but truthfully if your just looking at 1 lvl dip to learn shield, then sorc is better (taken at first lvl as it gives con save proficiency). multiclassing wizard is best at 2 to 6 lvls really - 1 splash is just a gimmick. its also not just about getting that scroll scribing but also about the spell school benefits - eg a nuker cleric or druid grabbing 2 wizard(evoker) for ease of casting on friendlies.
I’m guessing pact of the blade, Fiend, agonizing blast Repelling Blast Devil sight and at level 5 you get a second attack on warlock. Now go 5 Berserk barbarian and get an additional attack as well as relentless strike, rages, and inside of a darkness bubble you’ve got advantage with 3 eldritch blasts, every kill you get nets you temp HP which while raging. You take decreased damage from weapon sources. Things just me speculating, could be a decent build!
It’s simple. I see a Spartacus upload; I immediately watch.
Truuee
Hahaha thank you brother!
I once played Githyanki Barbarian (3) + Warlock (9) with Silver Sword of Astral Plane so I guess that counts as having a barbarian mix into caster. The logic was the following:
3 levels of Barbarian for Bear Heart -- resistance to all but psychic damage, and the Sword gives resistance to psychic.
9 levels of Blade Warlock for extra attack + charisma scaling + lvl5 spell slots + Otherworldly Leap.
Loop:
1. Precast Armor of Agathys at level 5.
2. Precast Otherworldly Leap right before fight.
3. Optionally gather people with minor illusion and throw a lvl5 fireball there to start the fight. Otherwise the fight somehow started.
4. Throw a Fireball if you didn't do it yet. Rage.
5. Leap into battle with lvl5 Armor of Agathys on you. Note it's 25 temporary HP is doubled no questions asked because bear rage + gith sword.
6. Short rest and you're ready for the next battle. You have a spell slot to replenish Armor of Agathys you probably lost or at least lost and a spell slot to fireball at the beginning of the next battle.
Variant: tiger barbarian for AoE but less Armor of Agathys durability against elemental damage.
Somewhat matches giths gish nature. Downside: 3 rages is not enough when Bard is in the party. Other than that, it was very fun. You throw a fireball, then rage at the fact you only have that many spell slots.
For wizard I actually just discovered yesterday that for ritual spells, if you cast like long strider, then replace it with something else in the spellbook, it removes the buff from all the characters
Interesting! So this only works with summons then!
@@italianspartacus good to know
Really liked Lore Bard with 4 levels of Lore Bard!
Also, dipping into Wizard with loads of learned non-roll spells like Haste is stupid good.
It’s funny I actually just tried a Wizard Barb - basically just one dip to get armoured defense via constitution and wielding a shield 🛡️ and he got really high AC and ain’t losing concentration nor getting hit 😂
Sorcerer draconic bloodline gives you a similar benefit. With white dragon ancestry you also get Armour of Agathys that can be upcasted with your wizard spellslots. Granted you don't get the shield proficiency but I like to go for dual wield feat anyway to get double caster staves (it also gives you 1AC when dual wielding).
Just thought of this also. Putting the amulet of greater health on my wizard so I can dump constitution, take a 1 level dip into barb for their unarmoured defense and have my AC be 16 + Dex is kinda insane.. all of that only costs a 1 level dip and a necklace that most wizards would have equipped anyways
Dipping into Light Cleric for 1 level is stupid good for other casters also - like S Tier, for the Flare reaction (like a free constant Shield spell) and access to Sanctuary, as well as Medium Armor and Shield proficiency.
I agree. How is cleric B but rogue is A? Cleric is definitely S imo.
Honestly shield is significantly better cause you get +5. AC which will cause misses much more.
@@CMiY0 - Since apparently you don’t know, the flare reaction from Light Cleric *also adds 5 AC in the EXACT same way that Shield does. The only REAL difference is that Shield will stop Magic Missiles and Flare won’t.
@@exantiuse497 - I completely agree 👍. DEFINITELY S tier for Cleric dip!
@@parabiology1014 No it doesn't. "Shield yourself with divine light. Use your reaction to impose Disadvantage Icon.png Disadvantage on an attacker, possibly causing their attack to miss."
Cleric is definitely S tier imo. 1. It's a full caster so it won't slow down your spell slot progression.
2. You can get heavy armor proficiency with the right subclass, and unlike with something like paladin you get the proficiency from the subclass instead of the class so you don't have to pick it level 1.
3. Many of the spells and sublass abilities are very useful to almost any caster: create water, sanctuary, warding bond etc.
I always take a level of cleric for any arcane caster for the armor proficiency. My wizard sits at higher AC than the fighter! (The fighter wants 2-handed weapon but the wizard can use a shield)
I can absolutely respect that take!
I’d put Cleric in S tier. Just so much possibilities from a dip.
Yep. Setting Gale up as an Ice/Lightning wizard with a single dip into Tempest cleric is SO good.
Helped me get familiar with Mount and Blade now Bald Gate, you’re goated.
I love the Mystic Theurge style build of a 11 Cleric and 1 Wiz. Best of both worlds in terms of spell options, and from a roleplay perspective, I feel it works as a Cleric of Mystra in that you get her divine power, plus have access to the Weave from her. Also gives some interesting dialogue choices when talking to Gale, if you play this Mystic Theurge as your primary.
Important: if you are playing a charisma based caster, all the other cha based full casters probs bump up a tier.
I think Cleric is S tier. It is the only way to get heavy armor proficiency while maintaining spell slot progression, level 1 subclass with lots if strong options, level 2 channel divinity likewise. Most of their best low level spells do not require wisdom, or are healing where it barely matters.
I would rate cleric as just about the best caster dip out there simply because 1 level is so outrageously front loaded and versatile. Fighter an Wizard do compete with it, and there are combinations that are better, but if your talking multiclassing any caster, it's hard to beat cleric.
Finally an accurate video of a tier list! This probably the most accurate video from my experience.. love it
Some of my favorite dips in the game are Cleric (so front-loaded) Draconic Sorc, Bard (Lore or Swords) and Paladin!
This was a lot of fun.
I am a big fan of the 4 Thief / 8 Swords Bard. But a four level Sorcerer dip should rank above the four level rogue dip.
Those for thief levels will get you an extra bonus action, but you lose fifth and sixth level spell slots. For most casters, that is a significant loss.
A four level Sorcerer dip turns any spell into a bonus action. You do not lose any spell slots.
The sorcerer is getting you more.
The rogue does give you expertise plus the benefits of being a thief or assassin, but the sorcerer gives you first and second level spells plus the benefits of storm, wild, or draconic bloodline sorcery.
I would say sorcerer at least deserves to be at the top of A or the bottom of S.
In my first play through I used a Bard-9, Rogue-3. And the Bard I used the Sword Class. I could just sit and shoot 2 bolts from my cross bow every turn about 2-3 times with haste sometimes 3-4 it’s super powerful. I had a blast with it. Now I’m playin through, with a Monk-9, Rogue- 3 and it’s way more powerful and amazing than the Bard was. Like, taking bosses down in one turn good.
For bard you really want magical secrets if possible so it’s never going to be a 4lvl dip if you’re a different caster class. 10lvls of lore bars with any of the other caster classes though is definitely an elite controller. Even 6lvls lore bard can be a game changer if you’re only rocking one caster in the group.
Agreed - there’s pretty much no reason to go more than 10 levels in any bard class. Depending on subclass, one could go with virtually any subclass. 10 valour bard and 2 OoV pally is awesome, as in 10 lore bard and 2 warlock or sorcerer, or, indeed, combining a level of wizard and cleric for support. Swords bards have less reason to go up to lv 10, but still, one could do worse.
@@Caesius1208 exactly. Currently rocking 4swords bard/6 bm fighter to try it out. Might end up being a 6/6 or 8/4 reverse split depending on how much casting I want to do.
Dont Swords Bards still get Banishing Smite at level 10? Banishing Smite+Divine Smite on top sounds gruesome af, if very spell slot heavy.@@Caesius1208
I think rogue is B tier, at best. Loss of spell slot progression, most subclasses give little benefit, and Thief really only helps very specific spells that have bonus action uses every turn like spiritual weapon. Cunning action is nice but you can probably avoid needing it as a caster with good gameplay. Niche.
I think Bard is better, even just for charisma synergy and spell slot progression.
Great video, but I have to disagree on the Ranger. If you are a caster, but want armour, combat style, hide as a bonus action, resistance to an element, and maybe a healing spell if you are a Wizard, then you can get all that with Ranger.
My first Tav was a Fighter 1 goolock 11. That 1 fighter level made a huge impact on my gear decisions throughout the entire game.
The only things fighter gets at level 1 are armor proficiency, weapon proficiency, Constitution save proficiency, and a heal spell. The Constitution Save proficiency is very important, but the other abilities you could have gained the same or more by going a level into Cleric instead.
You could get the exact same armor and Martial Weapon proficiency by taking a level in War Cleric or Tempest Cleric, but you get additional spell slots, and get the healing power and other great level 1 Cleric spells (especially Sanctuary!) as well, most of which don’t require Wisdom.
Plus you get great channel divinity and reaction abilities from the Cleric.
It’s a tough call because of the Constitution Save proficiency, and will come down to personal preferences, but I think a Cleric dip would have been more beneficial.
@@parabiology1014 Concentration was the deciding factor for me. When you only get 3 spell slots max you really need your concentration spells to hold up. I abused Bestow Curse throughout all of act 3 because the Staff of Cherished Necromancy makes the spellsave really high. I made Raphael skip every one of his turns lol. It was pretty insane.
I really like having even just 2 levels of rogue so i can dash/disengage as a bonus action, then launch a spell. The option to dash and such as bonus action saves me a lot of spell slots i would have been spending on misty step.
I really like adding a Lv 2 GOO Warlock to my classes. Eldritch Blast, Hellish Rebuke, Hex, Mortal Reminder, Agonizing Blast (Pump Cha or swap), and Devil's Eyes are great on all classes.
Warlock doesn't get pact until level 3. Your 10 bard 2 lock couldn't have had pact of the chain without a mod.
I was thinking that too! He must have meant a 9 - 3 split 🤷♂️
He might have picked up Shovel during that playthrough. That’s the build I ran. It plays like a level 12 blaster warlock with a delayed spell progression but it gives way more spell slots, healing, Bardic Inspiration, better face, extra short rest, magical secrets and hand crossbow proficiency.
If you get the 17 int headband, you can put it on your 10 int character with the wizard dip, to select four wizard spells, then remove it and retain them all.
You don't lose them, so you can carry around shield and 3 other utility spells.
I'm really biased towards druids... but I understand their placement. Good vid, thank you for the insight.
Watching vids vs twitch stream is such a dynamic that is so cool to watch. Twitch lover here that respects the no-fuss down to the point vids. But when i feel like having a chill and fun arvo, i put your playthrough in the background while i play bg3 or overwatch (to stop me tilting)
Hahaha Thanks so much man. Yeah I'm a pretty big loose cannon but I'm glsd you enjoy it
@@italianspartacus hang-on. Let me drop the political "W" word in some comments on vids 😉 I'm Aussie so love your humour. Very refreshing to see these days mate
Hahahahaha
Relaxing voice, great content, honest content. Gigachad youtuber
Loving the BG3 content. Thank you
Glad you enjoy it!
I had a character I went two in storm clecric and the rest in mountain druid picked all the lighting spells still had level 10 third attack while in wildshape gave me crazy utility and big damage when i needed it with upcasting call lighting or lighting bolt. still was able to tank in both forms with heavy arm and shield
One of my favorite multi classes has been a sorcerer spellsword. 1 fighter, 3 rogue (thief), and the rest sorcerer. Can be front line and ranged casting. Can make rogue go to 4 of you really want the extra feat
I should specify that it's a dual wield build.
A little confused on how rogue 4 gets you an extra feat since 1 fighter 4 rogue and 7 sorcerer will still only get 2 feats, unless you mean dropping the first fighter level for rogue to go 4 rogue/8 sorc
@@common_undead you right. I did my math wrong lol
It wouldn't be great for honor mode, but barbarian/Warlock works pretty well on any difficulty that lets Pact of the Blade get you that 3rd attack. Also, Hellish Rebuke still works while you are raging. I believe all reaction spells do from what I saw of my last run and having Counterspell proc while raging. I would expect that to eventually be patched out, but Warlock has some good things last long enough for combat and don't require concentration especially when you add in their Invocations. Armor of Agathys, Minions of Chaos, Lifedrinker (if you are running a mod that lets you go past level 12), and Create Undead being my favorite things that still work while raging. I really like doing this while running a healing combo of Sword of Chaos, Ring of Regeneration, and Periapt of Wound Closure. Healing a minimum 4 hp per round, 10 if you land one hit, 16 for 2, 22 if you land all 3 hits makes a raging barbarian really hard to remove from the field.
Just wanted to throw another option out: Wild Magic Barb can restore spell slots for a Paladin's Smites. I don't think this moves it up at all, but there is something there. I also think Paladin/Barb multiclass is okay in general.
Not sure if this was discussed in the prior vid (didn't see it), but this is what jumped into my head.
I would bump a couple, specifically Bard up by one, if you have bard levels and high Chr you can breeze through a bunch of social interactions. Sure, it's not combat specific, but Bard's power in conversations can remove the need for combat in a lot of places. Plus it is a full caster, which means 4 levels of bard doesn't slow your spell casting max level.
The other. is Warlock, but it's because Eldritch Blast, Agonizing Blast, and Devil's Sight is just that good. Esp GOO Lock fearing those you crit on. Fear is just that good IMO. Otherwise, 2 levels in Fighter, 2 levels in Wizard. Get a lot of utility. I often using the 20 level mod, take 2 fighter, 2 Wizard, 4 Warlock, and 12 Sorceress just for a powerful build. (Yeah I know mods shouldn't count on this tier list, but it does allow me to see what pairs best with my Sorcery builds.
22:10 actually I've found unpreparing your summon spells makes the summon disappear. At least for the seelie deva summon
I played a wildmagic barbarian + wildmagic sorc just because it seemed interesting. you can cast reactions (like shield) while raging, so a nice 8/4 barb/sorc split gets you great defensive tools to match up with some interesting chaos. It might be D tier, but it is wildly playable (pun intended) when you take sorc as a defense/react/buff caster and forgo concentration.
Note: Tempest cleric can also use heavy armor
all armor proficiencies, all martial weapon proficiencies, and keeps a full caster level for spell slots
Fighter is a class that's best to multi-class but also best to not multi-class. Action surge is goated but if you're wanting to main fighter, you'll likely want 11 levels to get improved extra attack. It's the only class in honor mode that can get it. And if you don't go full 12 at that point, you'll miss out on a feat. Decisions, decisions...
Brother this is about multiclassing fighter into a caster!!
2 bard levels are very interesting if you get a lot of classes in your party which get back their abilities on a short rest (fighters, warlock and so on)
Barbarian should be higher simply because it allows you to dump STR *and* DEX, and yet still improve your robe AC with CON. Which adds a whole shit load of options for Sorc, WL and Bard when you wear robes. As a PMC you can spend those points on Wis checks even as a CHA caster. And 3 levels in Barb lets you run Bear Heart and get res to damage as you reposition. Granted, you need to cast before you rage, but that's fine. Misty Step is a bonus action, and if you are desperate to move without using movement, you can fall back on that. The AC bonus alone is worth looking at.
I am experimenting with an Eldritch Knight/ Necromancer working pretty good so far.
I can already tell that you're underestimating Ranger. As such, let me add my opinions as you go. My first thought is that you think to "multiclass" you have to put 4 levels into a class, which is definitely not the case. Less is often better.
Ranger Knight; Heavy armor, and a favored terrain resistance to fire/cold/poison. As well as martial weapons. You don't need more than a 1 level dip. Now sure if you're putting 4 levels into it, it's less useful, but... don't put that much into it? C, pushing B tier. Worse than warlock, better than monk for sure.
Bard deserves a pretty big bump up, even to A possibly. 2 levels for expertise and song of rest without losing any spellslot progression, absolutely amazing. Quick note, magic missile is not targeting AC, it just hits. Not quite sure where you got the AC/attack roll thing from.
as mentioned elsewhere, you can't get pact of the chain at level 2. You need at least warlock 3 for that so your described build doesn't work. That said, warlock is... fine in B tier. It's worse than bard, though. Has some tricks but nothing that stands out more than expertise and song of rest, for sure.
Cleric is S tier due to it's innate versatility and power; war, tempest, and life all get heavy armor. the others get medium. You keep spell slot progression, and light cleric has an amazing reaction, and tempest actually breaks the game if used right.
Paladin 2, Warlock 10. Paladin is S tier. Yes, you are very heavy on melee, but you're still a full caster. Just because warlocks can use melee doesn't mean they aren't caster classes. Sorcerer is also super huge here. Paladin 2 is on the same level as Fighter 2.
More or less agree on rogue/sorcerer, but again, you don't need 4 levels for either of them. 3 is necessary for the strongest features here, at least, so getting a feat isn't *bad*. Also, Ray of Sickness is NOT a great spell. It's F tier. Do not ever include it next to magic missile and shield.
Wizard is S+ simply because, with a little stat investment or an item or a couple levels, you have access to literally every arcane spell in the game. On a cleric or bard or druid or warlock this is insane. Just insane. This also gives you access to the secret spells in act 3 forever, instead of just as scrolls. Which means everyone needs at least 1 character with a wizard dip if they want the best spells.
So in other words, I disagree with this list a lot, but that's how these things go.
if I'm running a build that uses Clothing armor (Graceful Cloth, Potent Robe, etc), sometimes I'll dip 1 level of barb just to get +CON to my AC, pretty nice defensive bump
(my problem with monk Unarmored Defense is you can't wear a shield, which I often want to do, barb Unarmored Defense does work with a shield)
That's interesting considering the most op caster multiclasses are:
11 fire sorcerer / 1 warlock,
10 sword bard / 2 paladin
10 sword bard / 1 wizard / 1 fighter
Sprtacus upload = Instant watch and enjoy :) Just like many other people here say haha!
You're the best!
Paladin is a tough one. Divine smite dips are good, but as caster you wont have extra attack so its likely you'll only have one attack. And unless you're a warlock, that attack isn't using charisma. Its still ok, but not A tier imo, and paladin offers little else you can't get better versions of with cleric or fighter.
Imo paladin smite builds work best with a split of levels, like paladin 6 sorcerer 6.
Works very well with a sword bard. You get the extra attack from sword bard, haste from magical secrets, strength from elixir of hill giant strength. With this setup, the helmet of arcane acuity, and a little help from hypnotic pattern, you can easily solo most fights in the game.
Cutting off at 4 levels really hurts warlock.
Level 5 gets incredible features for blade (extra attack) and tome (free cast of call lightning, haste, animate undead once per long rest).
Typical warlock cutoffs for multiclassing are 1 (for command or AoA), 2 (for eldritch invocation), 3 (for pact of blade weapon scaling on cha), or 5 (for the features mentioned above).
Other than the feat, a 4th level of warlock is not nearly as impactful as a 3rd or 5th, imo.
Also, with regards to cleric not getting heavy armor, some of the best subclasses do get it (war and tempest I believe). Tempest in particular is a strong caster multiclass for destructive destructive wrath and heavy armor.
I would be interested in a mon way pf the four / barbarian build, great video man!!
Id probably put cleric in A because they r the only way to get heavy armor without slowing spell slot progression, and spells like bless, healing word, and sanctuary r super strong. Id probably bump pali and rogue down to B.
I feel like Warlock should be so much higher, some of the best builds lockadin sorlock use the 2 levels in it
I gotta say, 10 Lore Bard + 2 Warlock sounds wonderful. I imagine it'd help me preserve a few spell slots to keep that train going a little longer - and there's no need to talk about how great Eldritch Blast is. Is there an optimal point at which I should make this dip?
*casts a spell for the algorithm*
Magic missile is an auto hit. Int will effect bonus damage
To your point though it's a bad example. If it's a DC save or an attack roll you add your caster stat bonus. Spells like feather fall, shield, haste are the examples you want
Sweet. Just got to level 12 with my sorc, having decision fatigues about multiclassing with destructive wrath route or pure sorc, chain lightning just too good
Do tempest! Just 2 levels of cleric and it's so fucking good
@@italianspartacus yeah with the necklace giving 2 charges of wrath good lord it's dope
Pls do the video of the Barbarian & 4 elements monk multi-class build🙌🏻
Magic Missile isn't an attack roll, only the Shield spell can keep it from hitting it's intended target.
Also, a 1 level dip of Cleric is EASILY S+++ tier, it's the best 1 level dip in a class, period. The best 2 level dip (start with it) is Fighter, and THAT'S not even close. Those two dips outweigh a feat easily.
And when I say they're easily worth a feat, I mean individually they are each worth a feat.
I don’t get your perspective on rogue at all. Which caster class gets more value from an extra bonus action than they do their lvl 6 and a lvl 5 spell slot plus their lvl 10 ability?
I like to see your opinion with the 5e spells mod
I would move thief rogue up to an S tier **if** you got the extra bonus action at lvl2. Being at 3, you either have to go 4 levels to get the feat, or you miss out on potentially 2 feats if you also multi-class into another 2. For example, a sorlock with 2 thief, 2 lock, 8 sorc would get 2 feats, agonizing blast, and quickened spell with TWO extra bonus actions. Holy $H!T... but since it takes 3 levels, you could only go 7 levels into sorc and lose the feat and sorc points. Oh well... Can we move max level to 13? 😁
Dragonborn breath attacks work while raging.
I use an oath breaker level 5 level 5 warlock with 2 levels in fighter for action surge I always haste my fighter every turn so I’m able to hit 9 times in a turn
ok so im going to be VERY critical here - and despite being subbed for a long ass time I'm also going to leave you a dislike because your giving out a lot of bad info here, some of it was outright wrong. (eg magic missile is NOT an attack roll). Additionally you really cant make a video on this subject without talking about save proficiency which is determined by the first class you take - its super important for casters.
lets address your D tier first:
barbarian: is in fact A tier (for a 1 lvl drop at lvl 1), it gives all weapons, it gives proficiency in CON saves (great for maintaining concentration) and it gives AC bonus based on CON - so if your not a dragon sorc and want to wear a robe its very good.
A further build that I still need to test: 3 lvls and berzerker it allows you a throw as a bonus action, wet targets take DOUBLE DAMAGE from lightning and cold so for a caster focused on either of these lobbing water bottles is a huge buff. I think I'm going to try a barbarian storm druid at some point. - need to learn to think outside the box more sparty when it comes to builds.
Ranger: can give all armour all weapons and a resist taken at ANY lvl - does not have to be first lvl. x sorc 1 ranger is damn good - gets you extra benefits and does not cripple your casting. its a simple question of would you trade 1 feat for all armour, all weapons and a resist?
Druid: ok druid is not great for less than 5 lvls. 5 lvl + for multiclass spell caster can be great though. and at 2 it gives wild shape, so if your a transmuter type of wizard wild shape can be both useful and thematic. with a 1 lvl splash on a cleric or any one with decent wis It gives shillelagh which can be awesome
now on to C tier:
monk - yeh ok.. monk is not good unless you invest atleast 5 lvls, ideally 6 minimum - and a pure caster that does that is no loinger a pure caster, they are mele hybrid.
bard: oh BOY.. you are so wrong, so very very very wrong here. Bard is S tier for 3 lvl dip, 1 lvl dip or 6 lvl even split!
the skills, and extra short rest are HUGE - but even more important is the fact bard is a full casting class itself, so you do not lose out on any spell slot lvls. Further more bard spellsknown and castable are not dependent on cha - so you pick up all your utility spells here giving you essentially EXTRA spells castable from your main class.
up to 6 lvls in bard is a great multiclass with wizard, cleric(fighty one), druid(spores) and 1 to 3 lvls are perfectly decent with all caster classes.
regarding the others - well fighter is not s tier, 2 fighter is where it is at for a caster build and that costs you your lvl 6 spell slot - its a fair trade off, but not s tier
wizard - sure wizard is s tier, but truthfully if your just looking at 1 lvl dip to learn shield, then sorc is better (taken at first lvl as it gives con save proficiency).
multiclassing wizard is best at 2 to 6 lvls really - 1 splash is just a gimmick. its also not just about getting that scroll scribing but also about the spell school benefits - eg a nuker cleric or druid grabbing 2 wizard(evoker) for ease of casting on friendlies.
Yes! ❤
I was just about to search for something like this for after I finish my first playthrough (I'm in late Act 3). Are you hiding in my closet again??
Alwayd have been!! Mwhahah
@@italianspartacus I 'll stock it with cookies and soda on my next break.
How many I’m actually will we see today? Lol😊
Barbarian and Warlock is scary good if you do it right.
Do elaborate? I mean, fighter I could follow given the synergy between champion fighter and GOO warlock, but I can’t really place barbarian?
…how
I’m guessing pact of the blade, Fiend, agonizing blast Repelling Blast Devil sight and at level 5 you get a second attack on warlock.
Now go 5 Berserk barbarian and get an additional attack as well as relentless strike, rages, and inside of a darkness bubble you’ve got advantage with 3 eldritch blasts, every kill you get nets you temp HP which while raging. You take decreased damage from weapon sources.
Things just me speculating, could be a decent build!
@@jaxsonfanta5420 I didn’t even think about pact of the blade, makes sense
It's great on melee marshalls!@@munt368
It's even better with the mod that removes the multiclass level cap
👀
For Warlock, you said you took 2 levels and gained Pact of the Chain. Did you mean 3 levels? Because Warlocks get their pact choice at level 3, not 2.