Now it’s possible the game didn’t mean for it to be the case, but the way Ellie was killing Abby is the same way Joel was being killed the first time Ellie takes a life, and consequently the first time Ellie and Joel grow close. That’s the beginning of them truly bonding into the pair that they became, and I think in that moment Ellie realized she’s killing somebody else’s Joel. And as such she’d either have to actually kill Lev, or watch Lev hunt her and everyone close to her down.
@@tahirpleasant5640 Thanks for that recommendation, ive had it on my watch list but was avoiding it for while because it was 2 hours. Glad I just watched it.
Big agree. Thankfully, the honest takes with actual consideration have made their way out but a few weeks ago it was absolute trash from reactionary individuals with axes to grind.
@@judsta123kickass Dude I was so surprised that I managed to watch his entire video at once, I've never watched such long videos but his video is written so well that I didn't feel like pausing. Even though I disagree with him on a few points, it's probably my favourite analysis on it.
I really appreciate the analysis on the ending, I see people think it was Ellie forgiving Joel but I don't think it's that. It's exactly as you said, it's about Ellie remembering Joel and what he wanted for her, despite the discource on Joel's actions at the end of the first game he did it FOR Ellie, he didn't do it for her to live her life this way. In a way its more about understanding why joel did what he did as Ellie has problems with, and the simple answer is love and she does the exact same here but she's blinded by hatred she doesn't see it until the end. I'd love to see Ellie move forward and maybe reconcile with dina if there's a next game, it'll really hit home the point of this game
Finally a video that says everything that needed to be said about the player’s resistance to the choices in this game. I think everyone who loves Part 1 had the emotional gut reaction of hating Joel’s death. But then we all had a choice: resist the story or see where it goes, give it an honest, unbiased chance. I’m so glad I have it a chance, because it was extremely rewarding.
Stunning. This game, I feel, is a bit of a (likely unintentional) social experiment which gauges empathy across a large swath of gamer culture, at least, perhaps society at large. There is a minority (but they are loud) for whom this game really flipped a switch and made it their mission in life to discredit this game and its makers. They don’t simply dislike it, they seem to be hellbent on exacting revenge upon it. Very telling as to what their personal long-term reactions are to being slighted. As you say, by having Abby in the middle, we are being placed uncomfortably within Ellie’s frustrated vengeful mindset. For me, the anger at Abby started to break when I could see her face after killing Joel: the howling void that has opened up for her is clearly indicated by her expression. I knew in that moment she realized that this didn’t solve anything. There are some, however, who hate the game because Ellie doesn’t kill Abby (who was literally crucified! I mean enough is enough!). Anyway, fantastic analysis!
what i wouldn’t give to know how overall reactions would have been if the leaks hadn’t happened. Throws a massive wrench into the experiment but yeah couldn’t agree more that this game is a fascinating mirror for its audience
@@TheFreshTrumpet it probably would've knocked it down 25%. The funny thing to me is the game has the highest completion rate on ps 4. I think alot of haters didn't even play the game and just hate watch videos about it.
I thought I was the only person who saw the deeper meaning of the second game. Abby, Ellie and Joel are characters who are so filled with hate or revenge that it poisons there heart
when you said "Abby is Joel" I started to cry a little. I just finished the game a week ago and didn't know what to make of the message of the story, but when you pointed out how Abby's story is a rebirth narrative for her transforming to a parental character reminiscent of Joel. Thank you for your great analysis and for, in a way, giving me closer.
ND didn't make a perfect masterpiece it is flawed and perhaps is a masterpiece. They took storytelling and game design to another level. This game does a lot of show and not tell. It doesn't tell you Abby side it makes you live it. It doesn't tell you she regrets Joel's death they let you see she regrets it through her nightmares, lack of closure and lack of satisfaction from killing Joel. They don't tell you Ellie isn't looking for revenge in Santa Barbara. They show what she's looking for is closure which can only be achieved through confronting Abby one last time and realising this won't end it, the only way to end it is to let go and look towards the future(Dina and JJ who she's already seen by the end) and letting the past go( Leaving the guitar). This game would not work well as a choice game. To truly arouse anger, empathy and sadness you must be put as a third character that participates and observe. You are given perspective from all sides something you don't always get in real life. I'd say this a story that really needed to be told. If there's part 3 they must have the same guts they had and go bigger and bolder. In a time when we are mostly given money grabbing bare minimum worse re-telling of great stories and really safe stories. We need companies that are willing to take risks to tell a new story innovatively and try new things. Wether you like the game or not ND should be respected for taking such a big risk.
Abby is literally Joel but the difference is we know Joel and we played as him in first game, in this one we don’t know Abby and we didn’t play as her so we automatically hate her even though she’s doing the exact same thing Joel did to thousands of people out of spite for his daughters death, and that’s why I think it’s hypocritical to hate on Abby for killing Joel, I’m not saying Joel deserves it but I’m saying Abby doesn’t deserve the hate she gets
i see your point but NO. First off what seperates a hero that kills and a villian that kills...is REMORSE. In the first game we know from the start that Joel did some dark shit, and that hes become numb to death and pain. But we also know that Joel has Nightmares about what hes done, we know that he obviously could not stomach some of the evil things his fellow hunters were doing so he left ( when ellie asks how he knew about the ambush) And we saw Joel ONLY kill in self defense or to protect ellie. The only time Joel EXECUTED someone was the two men he tortured and killed because they were evil and had a hand in abducting ellie and Marlene. I loved the charcater of Marlene because although she was presented as a villian at the end simply because she stood in the way of joel saving ellie. But you could tell marlene was a genuine human being, she was just at across road and felt OBLIGATED to go through with the procedure because of all the lives that were lost in search of this. But again Joel executed Marlene because he knew they would just come after ellie, you could see in his expression that he really didnt want to shoot her. So although there are NO heroes in this story...there are villians and Joel is NOT one of them. But Abby executes Joel while his daughter watches begging for her dads life and she doesnt get affected by it at all. She never once says im sorry ellie, and she never acknowledges that shes about to do to another girl what was done to her. She never had any nightmares or guilt over joels death. And she was even okay killing a pregnant woman....i viewed Abby as a PSYCOPATH and its not because she killed Joel its because she never once showed any signs of a good person. Even her sex scene gave me bad guy vibes. And lets not forget when Abbys father was talking to her about the procedure....abby smiles and says if it was me...id want you to do this. She at no point looked at it as a little girl is about to lose her life and it may not even work. A hero in that situation would say NO, you cannot kill this little girl. It just does NOT feel right. And anybody especially after 4 years who knew that there father died to the hands of another father protecting his child is going to understand whether they want to or not. And although she will forever be hurt by what Joel did, If i was in her shoes i would NOT want revenge. Its that old saying you make your bed and now you have to lay in it applies to Abbys father and all those fireflies. Wow, one sentence turns into a chapter book, thats how you know this is a Last Of Us 2 argument LOL
@@robogreek3157 I see your point I really do and I don't want to be that asshole but I don't think you saw deep enough in the game, sorry man lol just hear me out. If you noticed in the game you'll recall that Abby numerous times says that shes helping lev and yara because of guilt after killing Joel her nightmares never stopped and she realized that she killed this man and it fixed nothing, it's said a few times but you can see the guilt on her face numerous times in the game. When fighting tommy and realizing who he was, the look of amazement when she realizes who ellie was to joel, and how she took her father away. Even at the end, that last look abby gives ellie almost seemed like a pity to me, like " i hate you but know i started this" Idk maybe I went to deep but I think her guilt is said but not out loud you know? I do agree that killing joel in front of ellie was fucked but I believe that she was blinded by rage as Ellie and joel were numerous times, its fucked up but I think i get it, plus keep in mind, underneath all the shit just like llie she has a good heart. Both ellie and abby are "bad" people but have redeeming qualities. Abby let Ellie go twice, people really undermine that but if someone killed all my friends, who are basically her family since before lev they were all she had, id be pissed too. my guy in the real world sometimes things go unsaid. I hated my father and he died when I was 30 and we were never on speaking terms but to this day I regret not telling him that I love him. He may have done things I hate and may an asshole to me but he was my father but life, sometimes life is unfair, and we get the closure we want like in the movies. PS during the flashback with , saying if she had the choice to it she would, its easier to talk then actually do it but I believe her, personally.
@@robogreek3157 she never had any nightmares or guilt over Joels death? were you not paying attention? The whole reason she went to save Yara and Lev was because of that guilt. she even explicitly says it when Yara asks why she did what she did. I don't know how to show you about the nightmares so here was my video showing them ua-cam.com/video/UJ-Ly__HBJg/v-deo.html&lc=UgxeOiOckwm0CiT_3b54AaABAg
the delivery of this video essay was done so well! i like how you explored themes of trauma, perspectives in each character, life and death, etc in chapters. the last of us is a really interesting series but the second game lead to countless reviews from angry and dissatisfied gamers. i think most people tend to overlook at the messages and emotions the game intended to promote, and instead focused on debating if it was simply good or bad. keep up these vid essays bro
I love your honesty, just subbed, I loved TLOU 2 way more than the first, the game is fantastic & deep, the combat, the story, the game play, the animations, the environment, the world building, the fact that mid way through the game, they literally take us from Ellie's perspective, to Abby's, to show us both sides of the story...honestly, by the end of the game, I understood both sides, I went from being all on Ellie's side in the beginning,to by the end, not only did I not choose a side, I sat there, crying...because I got it, I understood why they did what they did, and what the consequences were because of there actions, my favorite game of the year by far. 🙌😃
Awesome video! Your channel is the best. The cycle of violence theme is expertly displayed in this game. Especially at the end when all out war breaks out on The Island.
i didn't hate it. i excepted it. they'll hate me for it..... but i won't hate you for hating it either. i gotta jolt through my body during the credits and said to myself, "They did it again".
Many streamers in my counrty couldnt accept Abby just because lack of empathy they were like Ellie playing through hole game their feelings for Joel didn't allowed them to see what was her point of story Turkish people are verry emotional and emotionless at the same time they do get easily blinded by rage and stop thinking clearly ı find this game better than first one.Yes it has narrating problems.It was far away from being perfect but ı really dont care ı see what they tried to create and strongly respect that we need more games like this flawed like the people in it but enjoyable.
Thank you for this video. I first watched this about a week after finishing the game, and I spent so much time after that thinking about it, mostly along the lines you outline - the game is designed to be exhausting and emotionally devastating as it forces you to deal with the consequences of violence and trauma and revenge. I initially was taken back at playing Abby, particularly in her first bit - as I started to realize she'd be playing the important role she did - and the return to her at such a key moment in Ellie's story was jarring, but then I really came to empathize with Abby and her struggles, and all the people I already knew would be dying so brutally because of Ellie and Tommy's actions. It was rough, and it was devastating, and it was brilliant. I've had a hard time expressing all of this in discussions with my friends, but you really nail the feelings I had and the thoughts that have been going through my mind. Thank you so much for putting it in ways I was struggling to.
Because playing as Abby is like Joel, Ellie is essentially trying to get revenge on Joel for saving her in the hospital before finally realising why Joel did it. She realises why when she sees the love and protection Abby provides to Lev. It's like u said, if she killed Abby, she would be killing someone else's Joel, a person who would trade the world for the person they love.
I'm so grateful that this game was made. It might not be perfect, but it helped me process my trauma by having the balls to tell a story that isn't comfortable or naive. The world can be a very dark place and stories like these need to exist to show people they're not alone in their grief and hate. If media just keeps ignoring this side of humanity it will only make the world darker than it lready is because the people traumatized by it would have one less outlet where those are already so scarce and they'll lash out.
I think one of my worst gripes is how the game creates a story of the pain and suffering death can cause, while the means of getting to story beats is killing hundreds of people who you have no personal gripes against just that, "they're in your way" and there's no possible way to advance with out killing them. The original game addresses this directly but the Last of us 2 pretends it isn't there and it's such dissonance that it's frustrating. Plus Ellie wasn't like this in the original. She didn't like killing unless there is no other choice but 4 years later, even though she was raised in a paradise compared to the rest of the world, she suddenly doesn't care and willingly chooses killing as a means to an end. I know that in the story she is traumatized, but this initial attitude is never shaken off or even shown. She was like if they tried to make Joel frames as a good person. The original knew he wasn't and that's the point.
Aww I disagree personally, I found the violence contributes back into the overarching story of pain, because the systemic presentation of every kill is designed to provoke guilt, therefore the cycle of violence that is performed involves the player into Ellie's personal psychological barriers. And I thought the colder Ellie made sense, because I've always interpreted the look of discontent from part 1 as her old self dying and that was the consequence of Joel's action. He saved her life, but killed her soul. But hey that's how I've interpreted it anyways, so feel free to disagree and Thanks for your comment! :)
@@pinkuplinku4961 Really disagree that Joel is made out to be a good person in this game. And the reason for Ellie being colder and more willing to kill is that she is trying to emulate Joel. She is trying to do what she thinks Joel would do (most explicit in her torture of Nora and attempted interrogation of Mel and Owen), but she's repressing what she actually feels. You'd be happy to know that she DOES feel the way you wish she was feeling, but she doesn't show it. It comes out after her torture of Nora and murder of Owen and Mel and in her willingness to leave Seattle after the latter. She is not like Joel. It takes further provocation from Abby (who is now in revenge mode for Owen and Mel and the others) to get her to fight again. So yeah, I disagree that her initial attitude isn't shown. She is DELIBERATELY pushing down the empathetic part of herself throughout the narrative, to emulate Joel who she has lionized.
As you said, Joel's death was meant to shatter the wall between the character and the player. Unfortunately, many seem to taken it further to break the wall between the player and creators/devs. The death threats and other despicable acts that followed from the internet and hate-groups make me sad that we may not get stories like this again, where the storyteller dares to reach through the screen.
Soul Index I super agree with this point-but I think the backlash from so many fans indicates the writing wasn’t strong enough to pull it off (also, the misdirecting in the trailers didn’t help either). The actions of so-called “fans” who sent death threats is totally inexcusable, definitely, but the pacing and attempt at non-linearity and forced morality its narrative emphasized over and over muddled this point, such that the anger of Joel’s death wasn’t channeled into the game but rather outward at the folks involved with manipulating their beloved characters/TLOU world.
Kenya Thompson I can understand why you’d interpret it as a failure on the narrative’s part, but I respectfully disagree. We can’t underestimate the toll that the leaks took on people’s preconception of the game months before release; people were primed to hate it and distrust the devs at every turn as a result, it sucks that we’ll never know how it would’ve been received without the widespread real and fake spoilers that went viral. Not to mention the negative youtube reviews that made a lot of ppl skeptical of trusting their narrative in the week prior to release (fr legit tens of thousands of fans probably read the whole “Joel and Ellie get killed by a trans character and then you play as their killer” thing, made lots of ppl go into it with a pretty uncharitable mindset lol). But even despite the leaks, it was arguably successful for half of if not more fans than not, it still sold really well and managed to end up with more positive user reviews than negative, and almost universally positive critic reviews. Not tryna beat a dead horse, sry I get wordy when I’m high 😂 ig Id ultimately land on the classic “art is subjective” thing, so success is in the eye of the beholder. It was wildly successful for me, wasn’t successful for others, and I don’t think that’s necessarily the fault of the players or the devs. This game isn’t for everyone, especially not for people who were almost exclusively attached to Joel and didn’t trust the narrative to pay off after the story took its risk. Is what it is
Watching your analysis with a friend and at 6:56 he had to pause to vehemently disagree with you, saying that pushing the button isn't the player immersing in the same ignorance, it's the player not being given any choice other than pushing the button. And from a gameplay perspective I agree with him, but I also agree with you - because you do have a choice, you can walk away from the game. It's still a binary choice which sucks from a gameplay perspective, but it is a choice, and in that moment Ellie is also faced with a binary choice to either kill or walk away. Again, I'm not saying it's good gameplay, but as someone who enjoys gaming as a hobby and loved Part 1, this is one I chose not to spend my limited gaming time on or even watching snippets of. Why? Because I knew about the dog scenes. Think of that what you will but for me, that's the point I turn it off and walk away, which sucks because I wish they could just...not do that...and I can't help but wonder if this particular game intentionally contains very specific triggers to force you to constantly either walk away or push the button, even in scenes where you're not actually pushing a blinking button with no other options, like the dogs or the pregnant woman. I don't think the developers are operating in ignorance of the fact that some people will not buy their game because of these triggers and others will be forced to make that binary choice throughout the game in a variety of different ways. I think that blinking red square provoked exactly the kind of responses they expected, but I'm not sure if that's a good thing.
I think that whenever an artist is not struggling to survive with their art, they should always try to push themselves. Art, being it paintings, sculpture, drawings, novels, movies, comics or videogames, serves mostly one singular purpose, the sharing of emotion. With this game, they tried really hard to provoke really gritty, horrid emotions, to let the player experience what it feels like to do something they know it's wrong, by putting the characters in a position where they want and have to do something they also know it's wrong. I don't like this game because I don't like this style of game, and I also don't care much for this type of story, but I really respect the bravery that it took for them to put a beloved franchise on the line to express those emotions. They really tried to share the ugliness of life, the hateful nature of humans and how hard it is to do the right thing when you see no reason to, and for the most part I think they succeeded. The hate that this game is receiving is exactly what they tried to invoke. They killed a beloved character to make the players hate them, to let them know how hard it would be to forgive them. And that's just over fictional characters.
Aww fair enough! I enjoy feel bad films normally, so I didn't personally have a psychological barrier. But yeah I agree the developers knew exactly what response they were provoking, because it knew it could galvanise those feelings to communicate its message more experentially. Anyways, Thanks for your response! :)
Very nicely done, Leo! I'm not a gamer and had not idea what the first or second Last of Us was about. I appreciate the recap, and how you were able to clearly show how the two games are so closely linked. Playing from another POV definitely adds a lot of sympathy to the game play - literally walking in another person's shoes. This is definitely the kind of game and story I think I could get into! And I wonder how many new subscribers you'd get if you just take the URL for this video and paste it into the Amazon reviews page for the game! A hell of a way to broaden your viewership!
@@ImplicitlyPretentious mann!! you break things down on so many levels its fantastic! this is the content I put on with my coffee and i just feel like my IQ goes up.. you know? much love man keep doing you!
I still just have this disconnect with the ending. Ellie always had that memory of Joel. It doesn't make sense to me that it would cause her to let Abby go and it also doesn't make sense that she never thought of it in that context until she had her hands around Abby's throat. If anything, remembering that night would push me over the edge to kill her. Abby robbed Ellie of the chance to rebuild her relationship with Joel. I don't buy the sudden flash thing. It's presented as the game giving a new piece of information to make sense of Ellie's choice, but it doesn't work because it's something Ellie had the entire time. As a whole I really enjoyed the game, and I agree with most of this video's points. But man, that ending really just drags the game down. Abby and Ellie needed to both live, but it could have easily been executed better.
I hear you that that last moment may feel disconnected, and the memory was with her all along. she was questioning herself on her journal entry during the Santa Barbara sequence. However, I think it's the PTSD that caused self-destructive actions up until that point. I don't necessarily know how it feels to have PTSD, but I observed some people that have. other than that, I'm really glad seeing others' perspective on this.
Yeah to elaborate on Jo’s take, my interpretation was that she was mainly haunted by the negative memories up until she finally had her goal in her grasp. It’s obviously convenient as a narrative device but I think it worked bc it wasn’t unrealistic. I think the flash of Joel on the porch (who’s surprised/concerned expression almost seemed to say “what are you doin, kiddo?”) could be interpreted many different ways, but I saw it as the moment she realized 1) that Abby wasn’t the source of her trauma, that grief for their broken relationship was the source, 2) that killing Abby wouldn’t stop her suffering, and 3) that Joel wouldn’t want any of this for her, no father would. She wanted her life to matter, and when Joel was killed I think she thought her life could matter being spent seeking “justice” for him, only to realize that literally none of what she/we had done the entire journey actually mattered beyond failing to end her suffering. I don’t necessarily think the devs had all of this in mind, but this is one of the better depictions of trauma that I’ve seen and narratively I get a lot from this ending by viewing her final choice in this way. It was the first healthy step she took all game, and that was the tragic beauty of it imo
@@TheFreshTrumpet yes! I feel like it's more relatable just to walk away. To this day, im still not sure if that last recollection was a moment of clarity or otherwise, or perhaps a different thing altogether. Just relieved that the absurdity was over and they can finally start the process of recovery.
At the end elli is a fucking monster and abby is a saint, is not inmersive to force you to kill a dog and then tell you that you're a monster for doing so, you don't have a choice and if your options are playing it or walk away then that is just a shit.
Thanks for you comment, and I totally disagree, because I'd argue that within these sort of games immersion doesn't come from choice but the performative aspect, therefore killing the dog contributes into the staging itself and in putting both the player and ellie into the same psychological place. If we're not forced to kill the dog then the game loses its tight grip over the player's emotions on a moment to moment level and won't be able to communicate the nuances of traumatic symptoms. But hey this is through the lens of a dramaturgical model, so feel free to disagree! :)
So everything you've pointed out I was aware of, but the thing that bothers me that they could have done a back and forth type of deal wiith the game and still would have gotten the same efffect. Better yet, they could have the option of playing the game from Abby's point of viee AFTER you've finished playing through Ellie's. There are many ways they could have done this… I felt all the feels the game wanted me to feel about both of the characters and such but I could not help feeling so annoyed and angry with the game overall because of the fact they had to STOP the entire flow of the story midway through. I can't forgive them for that.
Yeah I had the same feeling in my first playthrough, but bizarrely enough on my second I didn't even notice it because I realised the transitional flow from Ellie to Abby wasn't supposed to be from the situation but from the emotional rhythms of the tone and the way it rises and feels more lively after all the bleakness. Its really weirdly designed :p
I think switching the order of the perspectives would't have been preferable cause you need to empathise with the blind hatred Ellie has to make it trough that first half and if you already know that Abby is not totally a piece of shit it gets harder. I say this bcause from minute one i said she probably has a good reason for wanting Joel dead and it was a bit too much for me to stomach the kill count
agreed. if they wanted it to be easy to like Abby, they wouldn’t have made it the way they did. That was the central challenge of this game that i’ve never seen executed in this way before
Here's a channel without a very negative bias. It's a sad story, I wish something could've been done. But I have sympathy for the two and their loved ones. Still a damn shame, you know. Nice to see your willing to do this.
I think that last scene of Ellie reminiscing on her conversation with Joel was so well done. That memory was probably painful for Ellie bc Abby took away her opportunity to reconcile with Joel. But she ultimately had to change the way she viewed that memory; her decision to try and forgive Joel had to be good enough for her to move on. She had to accept that was as good as it was going to get for their relationship and that while they never truly reconciled Joel did die knowing that Ellie was willing to try for him.
@@ImplicitlyPretentious Honestly, this was a nice fresh take on this game. There's a lot of bad associated with the development of the game, and the toxic people in the world who felt they were owed something by the franchise. I've not played either game so it was nice to have the story itself reviewed more than saying revenge = bad. So trauma = yay! Just as a thought, due to having not played either game, if I'd have only seen your video, I'd have struggled to follow the arguments without a more explicit summary of the events of both games.
Thanks and yeah I've been too busy with work recently to properly pay attention to all the racket apart from a few reviews here and there, but its kinda nuts how its been! And thanks for your point, I'll remember to summarise the stories more explicitly next time! :)
This actually reminds me quite a bit of Elfen Lied and how Elfen Lied deals with empathy rather than symapthy of a character who's life was heavily shaped by trauma, and the way she traumatized the people around her. EL delves deeply into the psychology of how trauma shape's peoples lives, and how the best way to understand people's experiences is to find a way to empathize with them.
There's only two opinions on this game: The informed and the uninformed. Those hating on this game haven't played it, didn't understand the first game and/or play it most likely. Every video game is a power trip, this is just a triple A title that gave gamers everything they asked for: uncanny realism. Violence is scary, revenge is all-consuming, and every hero goes through trauma in order to become the character we love. When the first sneak peek came out, people complained about Ellie kissing a girl but everything else was perfectly fine and to be expected. I even heard praise over how the NPCs acted so life-like. The homophobes didn't realize the previous game had a DLC all about Ellie's budding sexuality. It was to be as expected as the good ol' ultraviolence. When the next gameplay preview dropped, people were appalled by digital dogs being killed for attacking the main character. They completely tuned out the possibility of a non-lethal walkthrough and player agency. They paid no attention to the further immersion of every NPC, even the dogs, have names, lives, friends, feelings, and reactions to your in-game decisions. This is all for the sake of immersion because you need to occupy Ellie's skin. You need to feel her fear, anger, frustration, and powerlessness along with all the typical power trip a story like this gives. Same goes for Abby, when you play as her you start to see Joel as a villain if not just another flawed human being who made flawed decisions. To re-iterate, every negative opinion I have seen so far has been extremely ignorant and short-sighted. The story is captivating, the acting is oscar-worthy, the immersion is perfect, and the lesson is deep. There's no other game that makes you put down the controller at the end and look inward. Asking yourself how much you enjoy simulations of murder and depravity and how real it is for the people in the story.
I meaaaaaaannnnn. Killed their one shot at not living in a resource scarce hellhole. One dominated by war and mass murder all stemming from their society's inability to rebuild because of an infection that turns people to literal and metaphorical monsters. So nah, that seems about right.
First off, i think Joel doing what he did at the end of the first game, was less him taking revenge on the world that took his daughter, and more inline with his beliefs that sacrificing the few to save the many, is not justified in an of itself. The former notion is way too simplistic. But in any case, i love this video. Im so sick of people shitting on this game because they wanted something different and im so proud of ND for going in a direction THEY wanted to go, rather than placate to consumerism. I dont have a twitter, but this should be shared there so Neil and the cast see it. Im sure it would make them smile!
I still dont like the game, to me it is a 6 out of 10 but i appreciate the ambition they had. However i take issue with not liking any of the characters except Jesse, everyone is so unlikable that it kills my view of the game. That and how they play Ellies revenge off as bad while never truly addressing Abbys was a big let down
@@carolusrex5213 I think you finding them unlikable is more about you, and less about the characters. Just from an objective point of view, i dont know how anyone can not like Dina for example. She's flirtatious, coy, sincere, intelligent, capable. Now do you mean, they never addressed Abby's revenge being a let down to herself? If thats what you mean i cant help but disagree. It was showcases through the whole game, especially when it showed Joel's death from her perspective and how after she killed him, it was portrayed (in all facets of the game) that killing him didnt heal anything inside that was broken. The gravity to Abby's revenge was addressed in a single line, "You killed all my friends." Thats what her revenge cost her.
@@BadassRaiden yes but it didny feel satisfying seeing her realize that. She seemed sad but then seemed to get over all the death quickly. Dina was oay i wish her relationship with ellie started as friendship and turned romantic a little further into the game so we could really see why she came to love ellie
@@carolusrex5213 The game is in no way, supposed to be satisfying. Thats the point. The game is like Uncut Gems. Its a giant fucking panic attack filled with bad decisions, and pain. People want it to be something else. Thats why they dont like it. The thing with Dina, however, i see as understandable. Its hard to jump in and feel about Dina the same way Ellie does when we didnt get to see that friendship unfold on screen but thats the point. Ellie loves her, and so we are supposed to set aside the fact that we didnt see anything unfold naturally, and simply love her, and the rest of the main characters in jackson (perhaps not seth xD), because Ellie loves them.
I have my main issues with the script and the pacing. If the order of some events was moved around in a way that was easier to understand, and there were changes to the script to make the pre-existing characters act like themselves, then I would give the game a 7/10 and not a 5/10.
Here's the thing though: That surgery would have done nothing for a cure. Naughtydog did all that research it did on how to make violence look realistic but they didn't think to ask "How do people study immunity and cures?"
It's called "suspension of disbelief." Ellie's death may not have been in service of a cure in the real world, but the game asks us to believe that it would have had a high chance of resulting in a vaccine being developed in the game's world. Not a 100% chance...but a high enough chance that Ellie would've willingly sacrificed herself to give humanity the chance of defeating the cordiceps fungus.
I do feel like the final battle with Abby would have been better if the gamer had the choice to kill Abby. This would have really made them realize that killing Abby isn’t what would be good for them.
Yeah I was thinking about that, but who knows, I remember smashing the button to drown her was so so hard that I had an insane feeling of relief when I could stop, so I assume they wanted to preserve that euphoric reaction from the player
Personally I would have liked the choice, but somehow I doubt that ND would have made that ending any less pretentious, probably moreso in an even more hamfisted way. No offence IP. I find an issue story wise though when it comes to Abby being let go. If she does eventually meet up with the Fireflies and slips just once on knowing/meeting/fighting Ellie. What's to stop the Fireflies from coming after her again. Just because the doctors in the previous game might have been the 'Best Last Hope' doesn't mean that wont be others that will try in their stead. And considering how such a meeting went in LU2, damn foolish as it was, I dont foresee a second meeting going any better.
I think they may have gone down that path if this was the LAST game in the series. But the 3rd TLOU game likely needs Abby to be alive for its own story (which may or may not be hashed out yet, but I'm sure they at least wanted the OPTION to have part of the story told through Abby)...so they forced the player to spare her life, creating a definitive canon ending. They could have given you the choice, and had saving her as THE ONLY canon ending, but that could get confusing. I mean...if you'd had the option of letting Ellie be killed by the Fireflies in the first game, but saving her and murdering them all was the only canon ending, some people would've been unable to accept the sequel where you play as a character that they chose to let die...unable to accept the sequel where there ISN'T a vaccine for this fungus, as the Fireflies would've likely developed if they hadn't been slaughtered by Joel...if they'd had Ellie's brain to dissect.
The only trauma this game inflicts is on the gamers who have suffered the loss of a beloved franchise to wokeness. There won't be a sequel to this one, or at least, not a successful sequel.
Eh? It sold well, got good reviews from critics and public. You think the franchise because some internet fuckwits obsessed with “wokeness” got pissy? People like you don’t like in the real world.
Now it’s possible the game didn’t mean for it to be the case, but the way Ellie was killing Abby is the same way Joel was being killed the first time Ellie takes a life, and consequently the first time Ellie and Joel grow close. That’s the beginning of them truly bonding into the pair that they became, and I think in that moment Ellie realized she’s killing somebody else’s Joel. And as such she’d either have to actually kill Lev, or watch Lev hunt her and everyone close to her down.
This and girlfriend reviews are the best takes I've heard on the game
Oh wow that's insanely high praise!
If you like those takes, listen to Noah Caldwell Gervais
@@tahirpleasant5640
Thanks for that recommendation, ive had it on my watch list but was avoiding it for while because it was 2 hours. Glad I just watched it.
Big agree. Thankfully, the honest takes with actual consideration have made their way out but a few weeks ago it was absolute trash from reactionary individuals with axes to grind.
@@judsta123kickass Dude I was so surprised that I managed to watch his entire video at once, I've never watched such long videos but his video is written so well that I didn't feel like pausing. Even though I disagree with him on a few points, it's probably my favourite analysis on it.
I really appreciate the analysis on the ending, I see people think it was Ellie forgiving Joel but I don't think it's that. It's exactly as you said, it's about Ellie remembering Joel and what he wanted for her, despite the discource on Joel's actions at the end of the first game he did it FOR Ellie, he didn't do it for her to live her life this way. In a way its more about understanding why joel did what he did as Ellie has problems with, and the simple answer is love and she does the exact same here but she's blinded by hatred she doesn't see it until the end. I'd love to see Ellie move forward and maybe reconcile with dina if there's a next game, it'll really hit home the point of this game
Finally a video that says everything that needed to be said about the player’s resistance to the choices in this game. I think everyone who loves Part 1 had the emotional gut reaction of hating Joel’s death. But then we all had a choice: resist the story or see where it goes, give it an honest, unbiased chance. I’m so glad I have it a chance, because it was extremely rewarding.
For me, it was the Completionist's video!
Not really.
@@winxbuneari5430 yes really
Stunning. This game, I feel, is a bit of a (likely unintentional) social experiment which gauges empathy across a large swath of gamer culture, at least, perhaps society at large. There is a minority (but they are loud) for whom this game really flipped a switch and made it their mission in life to discredit this game and its makers. They don’t simply dislike it, they seem to be hellbent on exacting revenge upon it. Very telling as to what their personal long-term reactions are to being slighted. As you say, by having Abby in the middle, we are being placed uncomfortably within Ellie’s frustrated vengeful mindset. For me, the anger at Abby started to break when I could see her face after killing Joel: the howling void that has opened up for her is clearly indicated by her expression. I knew in that moment she realized that this didn’t solve anything. There are some, however, who hate the game because Ellie doesn’t kill Abby (who was literally crucified! I mean enough is enough!). Anyway, fantastic analysis!
what i wouldn’t give to know how overall reactions would have been if the leaks hadn’t happened. Throws a massive wrench into the experiment but yeah couldn’t agree more that this game is a fascinating mirror for its audience
@@TheFreshTrumpet it probably would've knocked it down 25%. The funny thing to me is the game has the highest completion rate on ps 4. I think alot of haters didn't even play the game and just hate watch videos about it.
I thought I was the only person who saw the deeper meaning of the second game. Abby, Ellie and Joel are characters who are so filled with hate or revenge that it poisons there heart
Another video essay on trauma? Just my cup of tea.
lol thanks mate
when you said "Abby is Joel" I started to cry a little. I just finished the game a week ago and didn't know what to make of the message of the story, but when you pointed out how Abby's story is a rebirth narrative for her transforming to a parental character reminiscent of Joel. Thank you for your great analysis and for, in a way, giving me closer.
ND didn't make a perfect masterpiece it is flawed and perhaps is a masterpiece.
They took storytelling and game design to another level. This game does a lot of show and not tell. It doesn't tell you Abby side it makes you live it. It doesn't tell you she regrets Joel's death they let you see she regrets it through her nightmares, lack of closure and lack of satisfaction from killing Joel.
They don't tell you Ellie isn't looking for revenge in Santa Barbara. They show what she's looking for is closure which can only be achieved through confronting Abby one last time and realising this won't end it, the only way to end it is to let go and look towards the future(Dina and JJ who she's already seen by the end) and letting the past go( Leaving the guitar).
This game would not work well as a choice game. To truly arouse anger, empathy and sadness you must be put as a third character that participates and observe. You are given perspective from all sides something you don't always get in real life.
I'd say this a story that really needed to be told. If there's part 3 they must have the same guts they had and go bigger and bolder. In a time when we are mostly given money grabbing bare minimum worse re-telling of great stories and really safe stories. We need companies that are willing to take risks to tell a new story innovatively and try new things.
Wether you like the game or not ND should be respected for taking such a big risk.
Abby is literally Joel but the difference is we know Joel and we played as him in first game, in this one we don’t know Abby and we didn’t play as her so we automatically hate her even though she’s doing the exact same thing Joel did to thousands of people out of spite for his daughters death, and that’s why I think it’s hypocritical to hate on Abby for killing Joel, I’m not saying Joel deserves it but I’m saying Abby doesn’t deserve the hate she gets
i see your point but NO. First off what seperates a hero that kills and a villian that kills...is REMORSE. In the first game we know from the start that Joel did some dark shit, and that hes become numb to death and pain. But we also know that Joel has Nightmares about what hes done, we know that he obviously could not stomach some of the evil things his fellow hunters were doing so he left ( when ellie asks how he knew about the ambush) And we saw Joel ONLY kill in self defense or to protect ellie. The only time Joel EXECUTED someone was the two men he tortured and killed because they were evil and had a hand in abducting ellie and Marlene. I loved the charcater of Marlene because although she was presented as a villian at the end simply because she stood in the way of joel saving ellie. But you could tell marlene was a genuine human being, she was just at across road and felt OBLIGATED to go through with the procedure because of all the lives that were lost in search of this. But again Joel executed Marlene because he knew they would just come after ellie, you could see in his expression that he really didnt want to shoot her. So although there are NO heroes in this story...there are villians and Joel is NOT one of them. But Abby executes Joel while his daughter watches begging for her dads life and she doesnt get affected by it at all. She never once says im sorry ellie, and she never acknowledges that shes about to do to another girl what was done to her. She never had any nightmares or guilt over joels death. And she was even okay killing a pregnant woman....i viewed Abby as a PSYCOPATH and its not because she killed Joel its because she never once showed any signs of a good person. Even her sex scene gave me bad guy vibes. And lets not forget when Abbys father was talking to her about the procedure....abby smiles and says if it was me...id want you to do this. She at no point looked at it as a little girl is about to lose her life and it may not even work. A hero in that situation would say NO, you cannot kill this little girl. It just does NOT feel right. And anybody especially after 4 years who knew that there father died to the hands of another father protecting his child is going to understand whether they want to or not. And although she will forever be hurt by what Joel did, If i was in her shoes i would NOT want revenge. Its that old saying you make your bed and now you have to lay in it applies to Abbys father and all those fireflies. Wow, one sentence turns into a chapter book, thats how you know this is a Last Of Us 2 argument LOL
@@robogreek3157 I see your point I really do and I don't want to be that asshole but I don't think you saw deep enough in the game, sorry man lol just hear me out. If you noticed in the game you'll recall that Abby numerous times says that shes helping lev and yara because of guilt after killing Joel her nightmares never stopped and she realized that she killed this man and it fixed nothing, it's said a few times but you can see the guilt on her face numerous times in the game. When fighting tommy and realizing who he was, the look of amazement when she realizes who ellie was to joel, and how she took her father away. Even at the end, that last look abby gives ellie almost seemed like a pity to me, like " i hate you but know i started this" Idk maybe I went to deep but I think her guilt is said but not out loud you know? I do agree that killing joel in front of ellie was fucked but I believe that she was blinded by rage as Ellie and joel were numerous times, its fucked up but I think i get it, plus keep in mind, underneath all the shit just like llie she has a good heart. Both ellie and abby are "bad" people but have redeeming qualities. Abby let Ellie go twice, people really undermine that but if someone killed all my friends, who are basically her family since before lev they were all she had, id be pissed too. my guy in the real world sometimes things go unsaid. I hated my father and he died when I was 30 and we were never on speaking terms but to this day I regret not telling him that I love him. He may have done things I hate and may an asshole to me but he was my father but life, sometimes life is unfair, and we get the closure we want like in the movies. PS during the flashback with , saying if she had the choice to it she would, its easier to talk then actually do it but I believe her, personally.
@@robogreek3157 she never had any nightmares or guilt over Joels death? were you not paying attention? The whole reason she went to save Yara and Lev was because of that guilt. she even explicitly says it when Yara asks why she did what she did. I don't know how to show you about the nightmares so here was my video showing them ua-cam.com/video/UJ-Ly__HBJg/v-deo.html&lc=UgxeOiOckwm0CiT_3b54AaABAg
ROBO GREEK you mentioned HERO and VILLAIN, and that tells me you didn’t even understand the first game, let alone Part ll
@@TheThirdPew I think he was trying to point out that Joels death didn't solve her trauma. But yea.
the delivery of this video essay was done so well! i like how you explored themes of trauma, perspectives in each character, life and death, etc in chapters. the last of us is a really interesting series but the second game lead to countless reviews from angry and dissatisfied gamers. i think most people tend to overlook at the messages and emotions the game intended to promote, and instead focused on debating if it was simply good or bad. keep up these vid essays bro
ellies guilt is such a big part of her entire journey to kill abby and so many people miss that!
I love your honesty, just subbed, I loved TLOU 2 way more than the first, the game is fantastic & deep, the combat, the story, the game play, the animations, the environment, the world building, the fact that mid way through the game, they literally take us from Ellie's perspective, to Abby's, to show us both sides of the story...honestly, by the end of the game, I understood both sides, I went from being all on Ellie's side in the beginning,to by the end, not only did I not choose a side, I sat there, crying...because I got it, I understood why they did what they did, and what the consequences were because of there actions, my favorite game of the year by far. 🙌😃
I literally still think about this game everyday
great read on this game.
loved this game and the perspectives it shows to those willing on opening their minds.
Thanks!
my favourite video essay ive seen on this game yet. lets gooooo trauma yessir
Oh wow that's high praise considering theres the Girlfriend Reviews one!
Awesome video! Your channel is the best.
The cycle of violence theme is expertly displayed in this game. Especially at the end when all out war breaks out on The Island.
Oh wow thank you! And I wasn't sure if anyone was going to watch a videogame essay form me so thanks for accepting it!
i didn't hate it. i excepted it. they'll hate me for it..... but i won't hate you for hating it either. i gotta jolt through my body during the credits and said to myself, "They did it again".
woah, i didn't expect this!! wow. damn, trauma is very much welcome.
Thanks and yeah I'm running out of ideas now, so eventually I'll make a trauma essay about Bulk and Skull
Thank you man..lookin forward to it
Many streamers in my counrty couldnt accept Abby just because lack of empathy they were like Ellie playing through hole game their feelings for Joel didn't allowed them to see what was her point of story Turkish people are verry emotional and emotionless at the same time they do get easily blinded by rage and stop thinking clearly ı find this game better than first one.Yes it has narrating problems.It was far away from being perfect but ı really dont care ı see what they tried to create and strongly respect that we need more games like this flawed like the people in it but enjoyable.
Thank you for this video. I first watched this about a week after finishing the game, and I spent so much time after that thinking about it, mostly along the lines you outline - the game is designed to be exhausting and emotionally devastating as it forces you to deal with the consequences of violence and trauma and revenge. I initially was taken back at playing Abby, particularly in her first bit - as I started to realize she'd be playing the important role she did - and the return to her at such a key moment in Ellie's story was jarring, but then I really came to empathize with Abby and her struggles, and all the people I already knew would be dying so brutally because of Ellie and Tommy's actions. It was rough, and it was devastating, and it was brilliant. I've had a hard time expressing all of this in discussions with my friends, but you really nail the feelings I had and the thoughts that have been going through my mind. Thank you so much for putting it in ways I was struggling to.
Because playing as Abby is like Joel, Ellie is essentially trying to get revenge on Joel for saving her in the hospital before finally realising why Joel did it. She realises why when she sees the love and protection Abby provides to Lev. It's like u said, if she killed Abby, she would be killing someone else's Joel, a person who would trade the world for the person they love.
And when she stop trying to kill Abby she's forgiving Joel. Wow.
Would love to see some analysis on the Truman Show Leo 👀. Bring back the film studies days 😏
Hell yeah and its a wonderful life too
The more deeper I look into this game, the more I love it.
I loved this analysis! Good job!
Oh wow thanks!
I'm so grateful that this game was made. It might not be perfect, but it helped me process my trauma by having the balls to tell a story that isn't comfortable or naive. The world can be a very dark place and stories like these need to exist to show people they're not alone in their grief and hate. If media just keeps ignoring this side of humanity it will only make the world darker than it lready is because the people traumatized by it would have one less outlet where those are already so scarce and they'll lash out.
i fuckin loved this game, ive been replaying it
I think one of my worst gripes is how the game creates a story of the pain and suffering death can cause, while the means of getting to story beats is killing hundreds of people who you have no personal gripes against just that, "they're in your way" and there's no possible way to advance with out killing them. The original game addresses this directly but the Last of us 2 pretends it isn't there and it's such dissonance that it's frustrating. Plus Ellie wasn't like this in the original. She didn't like killing unless there is no other choice but 4 years later, even though she was raised in a paradise compared to the rest of the world, she suddenly doesn't care and willingly chooses killing as a means to an end. I know that in the story she is traumatized, but this initial attitude is never shaken off or even shown. She was like if they tried to make Joel frames as a good person. The original knew he wasn't and that's the point.
Aww I disagree personally, I found the violence contributes back into the overarching story of pain, because the systemic presentation of every kill is designed to provoke guilt, therefore the cycle of violence that is performed involves the player into Ellie's personal psychological barriers. And I thought the colder Ellie made sense, because I've always interpreted the look of discontent from part 1 as her old self dying and that was the consequence of Joel's action. He saved her life, but killed her soul. But hey that's how I've interpreted it anyways, so feel free to disagree and Thanks for your comment! :)
@@ImplicitlyPretentious That makes sense. I guess I just wish the game's storyline acknowledged the actual gameplay.
@@pinkuplinku4961 Really disagree that Joel is made out to be a good person in this game. And the reason for Ellie being colder and more willing to kill is that she is trying to emulate Joel. She is trying to do what she thinks Joel would do (most explicit in her torture of Nora and attempted interrogation of Mel and Owen), but she's repressing what she actually feels. You'd be happy to know that she DOES feel the way you wish she was feeling, but she doesn't show it. It comes out after her torture of Nora and murder of Owen and Mel and in her willingness to leave Seattle after the latter. She is not like Joel. It takes further provocation from Abby (who is now in revenge mode for Owen and Mel and the others) to get her to fight again.
So yeah, I disagree that her initial attitude isn't shown. She is DELIBERATELY pushing down the empathetic part of herself throughout the narrative, to emulate Joel who she has lionized.
I've seen a lot of analyses for this game because it fascinates me and this is possibly the best I've seen, you've got yourself a new subscriber
This says everything i thought but couldnt put in words love the vid keep up the good work!!!
Aww thanks! I thought my voice sounded particularly whiny in this video so I'm so relieved it didn't distract you!
@@ImplicitlyPretentious not at all it seemed like such a fair response to the game which has been quite divisive so i greatly appreciated the vid !
Great video! I cried
This video is beautiful, it made me cry
I think the problem that a lot of people had with the game was the media behind the game, that brought about the more hated aspects.
Hi can someone please give me the song name from the very start of this video
As you said, Joel's death was meant to shatter the wall between the character and the player. Unfortunately, many seem to taken it further to break the wall between the player and creators/devs. The death threats and other despicable acts that followed from the internet and hate-groups make me sad that we may not get stories like this again, where the storyteller dares to reach through the screen.
Soul Index I super agree with this point-but I think the backlash from so many fans indicates the writing wasn’t strong enough to pull it off (also, the misdirecting in the trailers didn’t help either). The actions of so-called “fans” who sent death threats is totally inexcusable, definitely, but the pacing and attempt at non-linearity and forced morality its narrative emphasized over and over muddled this point, such that the anger of Joel’s death wasn’t channeled into the game but rather outward at the folks involved with manipulating their beloved characters/TLOU world.
Kenya Thompson I can understand why you’d interpret it as a failure on the narrative’s part, but I respectfully disagree. We can’t underestimate the toll that the leaks took on people’s preconception of the game months before release; people were primed to hate it and distrust the devs at every turn as a result, it sucks that we’ll never know how it would’ve been received without the widespread real and fake spoilers that went viral. Not to mention the negative youtube reviews that made a lot of ppl skeptical of trusting their narrative in the week prior to release (fr legit tens of thousands of fans probably read the whole “Joel and Ellie get killed by a trans character and then you play as their killer” thing, made lots of ppl go into it with a pretty uncharitable mindset lol). But even despite the leaks, it was arguably successful for half of if not more fans than not, it still sold really well and managed to end up with more positive user reviews than negative, and almost universally positive critic reviews. Not tryna beat a dead horse, sry I get wordy when I’m high 😂 ig Id ultimately land on the classic “art is subjective” thing, so success is in the eye of the beholder. It was wildly successful for me, wasn’t successful for others, and I don’t think that’s necessarily the fault of the players or the devs. This game isn’t for everyone, especially not for people who were almost exclusively attached to Joel and didn’t trust the narrative to pay off after the story took its risk. Is what it is
Thank you. It's hard to explain, but thank you
Aww thanks! I had to rewrite the essay from scratch, because I couldn't get my point across so I know the feeling!
Your opening theme...it sounds like a slightly adjusted Steely Dan song
Watching your analysis with a friend and at 6:56 he had to pause to vehemently disagree with you, saying that pushing the button isn't the player immersing in the same ignorance, it's the player not being given any choice other than pushing the button. And from a gameplay perspective I agree with him, but I also agree with you - because you do have a choice, you can walk away from the game. It's still a binary choice which sucks from a gameplay perspective, but it is a choice, and in that moment Ellie is also faced with a binary choice to either kill or walk away. Again, I'm not saying it's good gameplay, but as someone who enjoys gaming as a hobby and loved Part 1, this is one I chose not to spend my limited gaming time on or even watching snippets of. Why? Because I knew about the dog scenes. Think of that what you will but for me, that's the point I turn it off and walk away, which sucks because I wish they could just...not do that...and I can't help but wonder if this particular game intentionally contains very specific triggers to force you to constantly either walk away or push the button, even in scenes where you're not actually pushing a blinking button with no other options, like the dogs or the pregnant woman. I don't think the developers are operating in ignorance of the fact that some people will not buy their game because of these triggers and others will be forced to make that binary choice throughout the game in a variety of different ways. I think that blinking red square provoked exactly the kind of responses they expected, but I'm not sure if that's a good thing.
I think that whenever an artist is not struggling to survive with their art, they should always try to push themselves. Art, being it paintings, sculpture, drawings, novels, movies, comics or videogames, serves mostly one singular purpose, the sharing of emotion. With this game, they tried really hard to provoke really gritty, horrid emotions, to let the player experience what it feels like to do something they know it's wrong, by putting the characters in a position where they want and have to do something they also know it's wrong.
I don't like this game because I don't like this style of game, and I also don't care much for this type of story, but I really respect the bravery that it took for them to put a beloved franchise on the line to express those emotions. They really tried to share the ugliness of life, the hateful nature of humans and how hard it is to do the right thing when you see no reason to, and for the most part I think they succeeded. The hate that this game is receiving is exactly what they tried to invoke. They killed a beloved character to make the players hate them, to let them know how hard it would be to forgive them. And that's just over fictional characters.
the choice is taken away because its not about the player. It's about Ellie
Aww fair enough! I enjoy feel bad films normally, so I didn't personally have a psychological barrier. But yeah I agree the developers knew exactly what response they were provoking, because it knew it could galvanise those feelings to communicate its message more experentially. Anyways, Thanks for your response! :)
@nerdtronis141 lol not all games are telltale. You have the whole game in front of you and story events are commonly un affected.
@nerdtronis141 Well, you never had to choose between saving Hyrule or delivering it to darkness, did you?
**calm happy guitar playing while Joel's brains burst out of his head and Ellie screams and cries** 5:40
Very nicely done, Leo! I'm not a gamer and had not idea what the first or second Last of Us was about. I appreciate the recap, and how you were able to clearly show how the two games are so closely linked. Playing from another POV definitely adds a lot of sympathy to the game play - literally walking in another person's shoes. This is definitely the kind of game and story I think I could get into!
And I wonder how many new subscribers you'd get if you just take the URL for this video and paste it into the Amazon reviews page for the game! A hell of a way to broaden your viewership!
I think we all misread part 2. It’s not just about a mirror between Abbey and Ellie. It’s a mirror between part 1 and 2, between Joel and Ellie.
I like this game and I wanna keep replaying it but its just so depressing
I don't know if you liked this game like I did but you definitely captured why i loved it. Thank you
amazing video man... some of the richest content on youtube.. love your videos :)
Oh wow thank you so very much! :)
@@ImplicitlyPretentious mann!! you break things down on so many levels its fantastic! this is the content I put on with my coffee and i just feel like my IQ goes up.. you know? much love man keep doing you!
I still just have this disconnect with the ending. Ellie always had that memory of Joel. It doesn't make sense to me that it would cause her to let Abby go and it also doesn't make sense that she never thought of it in that context until she had her hands around Abby's throat. If anything, remembering that night would push me over the edge to kill her. Abby robbed Ellie of the chance to rebuild her relationship with Joel. I don't buy the sudden flash thing. It's presented as the game giving a new piece of information to make sense of Ellie's choice, but it doesn't work because it's something Ellie had the entire time.
As a whole I really enjoyed the game, and I agree with most of this video's points. But man, that ending really just drags the game down. Abby and Ellie needed to both live, but it could have easily been executed better.
I hear you that that last moment may feel disconnected, and the memory was with her all along. she was questioning herself on her journal entry during the Santa Barbara sequence.
However, I think it's the PTSD that caused self-destructive actions up until that point. I don't necessarily know how it feels to have PTSD, but I observed some people that have.
other than that, I'm really glad seeing others' perspective on this.
Yeah to elaborate on Jo’s take, my interpretation was that she was mainly haunted by the negative memories up until she finally had her goal in her grasp. It’s obviously convenient as a narrative device but I think it worked bc it wasn’t unrealistic. I think the flash of Joel on the porch (who’s surprised/concerned expression almost seemed to say “what are you doin, kiddo?”) could be interpreted many different ways, but I saw it as the moment she realized 1) that Abby wasn’t the source of her trauma, that grief for their broken relationship was the source, 2) that killing Abby wouldn’t stop her suffering, and 3) that Joel wouldn’t want any of this for her, no father would. She wanted her life to matter, and when Joel was killed I think she thought her life could matter being spent seeking “justice” for him, only to realize that literally none of what she/we had done the entire journey actually mattered beyond failing to end her suffering.
I don’t necessarily think the devs had all of this in mind, but this is one of the better depictions of trauma that I’ve seen and narratively I get a lot from this ending by viewing her final choice in this way. It was the first healthy step she took all game, and that was the tragic beauty of it imo
@@TheFreshTrumpet yes! I feel like it's more relatable just to walk away. To this day, im still not sure if that last recollection was a moment of clarity or otherwise, or perhaps a different thing altogether. Just relieved that the absurdity was over and they can finally start the process of recovery.
I really needed you to make this video, thanks.
At this point you should just re-name your channel to " i talk about trauma"
Great video.
This… is an incredible take. Thank you
Thank you. It's comforting in knowing that someone else views this game as I did the first time through, even second😊
At the end elli is a fucking monster and abby is a saint, is not inmersive to force you to kill a dog and then tell you that you're a monster for doing so, you don't have a choice and if your options are playing it or walk away then that is just a shit.
Thanks for you comment, and I totally disagree, because I'd argue that within these sort of games immersion doesn't come from choice but the performative aspect, therefore killing the dog contributes into the staging itself and in putting both the player and ellie into the same psychological place. If we're not forced to kill the dog then the game loses its tight grip over the player's emotions on a moment to moment level and won't be able to communicate the nuances of traumatic symptoms. But hey this is through the lens of a dramaturgical model, so feel free to disagree! :)
So everything you've pointed out I was aware of, but the thing that bothers me that they could have done a back and forth type of deal wiith the game and still would have gotten the same efffect. Better yet, they could have the option of playing the game from Abby's point of viee AFTER you've finished playing through Ellie's. There are many ways they could have done this…
I felt all the feels the game wanted me to feel about both of the characters and such but I could not help feeling so annoyed and angry with the game overall because of the fact they had to STOP the entire flow of the story midway through.
I can't forgive them for that.
Yeah I had the same feeling in my first playthrough, but bizarrely enough on my second I didn't even notice it because I realised the transitional flow from Ellie to Abby wasn't supposed to be from the situation but from the emotional rhythms of the tone and the way it rises and feels more lively after all the bleakness. Its really weirdly designed :p
I don't know why I haven't subscribed before now even though I know of your videos well. I will not continue that mistake. Amazing video!
I think switching the order of the perspectives would't have been preferable cause you need to empathise with the blind hatred Ellie has to make it trough that first half and if you already know that Abby is not totally a piece of shit it gets harder. I say this bcause from minute one i said she probably has a good reason for wanting Joel dead and it was a bit too much for me to stomach the kill count
agreed. if they wanted it to be easy to like Abby, they wouldn’t have made it the way they did. That was the central challenge of this game that i’ve never seen executed in this way before
Here's a channel without a very negative bias. It's a sad story, I wish something could've been done. But I have sympathy for the two and their loved ones. Still a damn shame, you know.
Nice to see your willing to do this.
I think that last scene of Ellie reminiscing on her conversation with Joel was so well done. That memory was probably painful for Ellie bc Abby took away her opportunity to reconcile with Joel. But she ultimately had to change the way she viewed that memory; her decision to try and forgive Joel had to be good enough for her to move on. She had to accept that was as good as it was going to get for their relationship and that while they never truly reconciled Joel did die knowing that Ellie was willing to try for him.
Put some respect on this game’s name!
I think it'll be like Metal Gear Solid 2, where the most interesting conversations are after a few years of its initial release!
A very good video which summarises a lot of feelings and thoughts I had about the game myself.
Good stuff, man :)
Hell yea! Trauma!
Next is Colonel Sanders and trauma
@@ImplicitlyPretentious Kentucky Fried Trauma!
@@ImplicitlyPretentious Honestly, this was a nice fresh take on this game. There's a lot of bad associated with the development of the game, and the toxic people in the world who felt they were owed something by the franchise. I've not played either game so it was nice to have the story itself reviewed more than saying revenge = bad. So trauma = yay!
Just as a thought, due to having not played either game, if I'd have only seen your video, I'd have struggled to follow the arguments without a more explicit summary of the events of both games.
Thanks and yeah I've been too busy with work recently to properly pay attention to all the racket apart from a few reviews here and there, but its kinda nuts how its been! And thanks for your point, I'll remember to summarise the stories more explicitly next time! :)
I really like the last of us part 2. All the emotions I felt playing it. It was a experience that I will remember for a while.
This is the best analysis of the game. No opinion. Narrative analysis is A1👌
IDK how anyone can hate this game anymore especially after this video, this guy did a damn good job with this video.
This actually reminds me quite a bit of Elfen Lied and how Elfen Lied deals with empathy rather than symapthy of a character who's life was heavily shaped by trauma, and the way she traumatized the people around her.
EL delves deeply into the psychology of how trauma shape's peoples lives, and how the best way to understand people's experiences is to find a way to empathize with them.
haha I kinda agree with this comparison but not for the same reasons
I loved this game and you made me love it even more. Your videos are always so well done, thank you for the time you put into them.
Very interesting and impressive analysis. Thank you.
please reupload your man of steel and bvs video from back in the day
i wish i could analyze movies or games like this on my own !! keep it up !!
Since when do you analyze based on Trauma theory?
Thanks for this. Fantastic breakdown.
Great video! but still not a great game in my opinion
Great vid. How does this not get more views?
The trauma lama is clearly your spirit animal.
*sees IP uploaded a Last of Us video*
I always knew this day would come, and I'm all for it.
Wow, that's really flattering 😂
Great video.
Part 2 just challenges you.
Sobering words
a great take
Love your videos man keep it up!
Aww thank you so much for coming back each time! :)
Fascinating video, you almost made me believe the game was good ^^
Many interesting points to consider anyway :)
There's only two opinions on this game: The informed and the uninformed.
Those hating on this game haven't played it, didn't understand the first game and/or play it most likely. Every video game is a power trip, this is just a triple A title that gave gamers everything they asked for: uncanny realism. Violence is scary, revenge is all-consuming, and every hero goes through trauma in order to become the character we love.
When the first sneak peek came out, people complained about Ellie kissing a girl but everything else was perfectly fine and to be expected. I even heard praise over how the NPCs acted so life-like. The homophobes didn't realize the previous game had a DLC all about Ellie's budding sexuality. It was to be as expected as the good ol' ultraviolence.
When the next gameplay preview dropped, people were appalled by digital dogs being killed for attacking the main character. They completely tuned out the possibility of a non-lethal walkthrough and player agency. They paid no attention to the further immersion of every NPC, even the dogs, have names, lives, friends, feelings, and reactions to your in-game decisions. This is all for the sake of immersion because you need to occupy Ellie's skin. You need to feel her fear, anger, frustration, and powerlessness along with all the typical power trip a story like this gives. Same goes for Abby, when you play as her you start to see Joel as a villain if not just another flawed human being who made flawed decisions.
To re-iterate, every negative opinion I have seen so far has been extremely ignorant and short-sighted. The story is captivating, the acting is oscar-worthy, the immersion is perfect, and the lesson is deep. There's no other game that makes you put down the controller at the end and look inward. Asking yourself how much you enjoy simulations of murder and depravity and how real it is for the people in the story.
Joel “dooming” mankind is a bit of a stretch, no?
I meaaaaaaannnnn. Killed their one shot at not living in a resource scarce hellhole. One dominated by war and mass murder all stemming from their society's inability to rebuild because of an infection that turns people to literal and metaphorical monsters. So nah, that seems about right.
it’s dramatic but it’s hard to argue against considering the possibility that he singlehandedly eliminated
You are obsessed with trauma.
I'm thinking this may be my swan song to the topic, until a video about Wolverine a few years down the line
First off, i think Joel doing what he did at the end of the first game, was less him taking revenge on the world that took his daughter, and more inline with his beliefs that sacrificing the few to save the many, is not justified in an of itself. The former notion is way too simplistic. But in any case, i love this video. Im so sick of people shitting on this game because they wanted something different and im so proud of ND for going in a direction THEY wanted to go, rather than placate to consumerism. I dont have a twitter, but this should be shared there so Neil and the cast see it. Im sure it would make them smile!
I still dont like the game, to me it is a 6 out of 10 but i appreciate the ambition they had. However i take issue with not liking any of the characters except Jesse, everyone is so unlikable that it kills my view of the game. That and how they play Ellies revenge off as bad while never truly addressing Abbys was a big let down
@@carolusrex5213 I think you finding them unlikable is more about you, and less about the characters. Just from an objective point of view, i dont know how anyone can not like Dina for example. She's flirtatious, coy, sincere, intelligent, capable. Now do you mean, they never addressed Abby's revenge being a let down to herself? If thats what you mean i cant help but disagree. It was showcases through the whole game, especially when it showed Joel's death from her perspective and how after she killed him, it was portrayed (in all facets of the game) that killing him didnt heal anything inside that was broken. The gravity to Abby's revenge was addressed in a single line, "You killed all my friends." Thats what her revenge cost her.
@@BadassRaiden yes but it didny feel satisfying seeing her realize that. She seemed sad but then seemed to get over all the death quickly. Dina was oay i wish her relationship with ellie started as friendship and turned romantic a little further into the game so we could really see why she came to love ellie
@@carolusrex5213 The game is in no way, supposed to be satisfying. Thats the point. The game is like Uncut Gems. Its a giant fucking panic attack filled with bad decisions, and pain. People want it to be something else. Thats why they dont like it. The thing with Dina, however, i see as understandable. Its hard to jump in and feel about Dina the same way Ellie does when we didnt get to see that friendship unfold on screen but thats the point. Ellie loves her, and so we are supposed to set aside the fact that we didnt see anything unfold naturally, and simply love her, and the rest of the main characters in jackson (perhaps not seth xD), because Ellie loves them.
That’s what I said lol
I have my main issues with the script and the pacing. If the order of some events was moved around in a way that was easier to understand, and there were changes to the script to make the pre-existing characters act like themselves, then I would give the game a 7/10 and not a 5/10.
Here's the thing though: That surgery would have done nothing for a cure. Naughtydog did all that research it did on how to make violence look realistic but they didn't think to ask "How do people study immunity and cures?"
It's called "suspension of disbelief." Ellie's death may not have been in service of a cure in the real world, but the game asks us to believe that it would have had a high chance of resulting in a vaccine being developed in the game's world. Not a 100% chance...but a high enough chance that Ellie would've willingly sacrificed herself to give humanity the chance of defeating the cordiceps fungus.
I do feel like the final battle with Abby would have been better if the gamer had the choice to kill Abby. This would have really made them realize that killing Abby isn’t what would be good for them.
Yeah I was thinking about that, but who knows, I remember smashing the button to drown her was so so hard that I had an insane feeling of relief when I could stop, so I assume they wanted to preserve that euphoric reaction from the player
Personally I would have liked the choice, but somehow I doubt that ND would have made that ending any less pretentious, probably moreso in an even more hamfisted way.
No offence IP.
I find an issue story wise though when it comes to Abby being let go. If she does eventually meet up with the Fireflies and slips just once on knowing/meeting/fighting Ellie. What's to stop the Fireflies from coming after her again.
Just because the doctors in the previous game might have been the 'Best Last Hope' doesn't mean that wont be others that will try in their stead.
And considering how such a meeting went in LU2, damn foolish as it was, I dont foresee a second meeting going any better.
I think they may have gone down that path if this was the LAST game in the series. But the 3rd TLOU game likely needs Abby to be alive for its own story (which may or may not be hashed out yet, but I'm sure they at least wanted the OPTION to have part of the story told through Abby)...so they forced the player to spare her life, creating a definitive canon ending. They could have given you the choice, and had saving her as THE ONLY canon ending, but that could get confusing. I mean...if you'd had the option of letting Ellie be killed by the Fireflies in the first game, but saving her and murdering them all was the only canon ending, some people would've been unable to accept the sequel where you play as a character that they chose to let die...unable to accept the sequel where there ISN'T a vaccine for this fungus, as the Fireflies would've likely developed if they hadn't been slaughtered by Joel...if they'd had Ellie's brain to dissect.
I'm sorry but this game sucks as hard as TLJ.
The only trauma this game inflicts is on the gamers who have suffered the loss of a beloved franchise to wokeness. There won't be a sequel to this one, or at least, not a successful sequel.
Eh? It sold well, got good reviews from critics and public. You think the franchise because some internet fuckwits obsessed with “wokeness” got pissy?
People like you don’t like in the real world.
Beck the game has LGBT characters. To simply acknowledge such people exist is “wokeness” to these meme-spewing knuckle draggers. Pay them no mind.
Good video but I still hate Abby and don't like the game. Just my opinion
Yess!! It refused to commodify Joel!!! Thank you for saying it