History-Makers: Homer
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- Опубліковано 16 вер 2024
- Visit PhilosophicalPhridays.com to learn more about Blue's BOOK!
"History-Makers" is a new series from Blue, digging into the backstories of history's most influential writers and their great works. We begin at the beginning, with the Greek poet Homer, trying to figure out how exactly he wound up with the Iliad and Odyssey!
Let me know which History-Maker you'd like me to cover in the comments below!
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I like to imagine Homer, this old blind dude, just standing up in front of his audience, probably leaning on a stick or something, and suddenly rapping the entire Illiad flawlessly.
A two hour rap at 7.2 words a second
@@DarthWoodrackTop 10 Rappers Eminem is Afraid to Diss
Followed by a lively retort, ending in an epic rap battle.
Lollll
Of course, Homer~
The composer of Troy Story and Troy Story 2
@Jon A. ...and Troy Story 4?
You got an epic in me.... you got an epic in me
@Jon A. Red did the "Troy Story" pun in her video on the Iliad, you probably knew it from there
All of Jimin's Jams Namjoon stole lmao troy story
i guess Achilles has a friend in Patroclus
I don't know what's better, the idea of Greek poets having enough stock in their back pocket the spin epic battles 8 Mile style. Or Homer creating his own version of Marvel Cinematic Universe thousands of years ago
Definitely the Homer Cinematic Universe (HCU)
Including, but not limited to The Troy Story Saga
@@PixelPower0615 Don't forget the great Golden Fleece crossover event.
Now i really want to see a rap battle against ancient bards
@@joeb8935 All rap battles are are modern takes on the same concept.
no
Before the MCU there was the GBU (Greek Bardic Universe)
It was once the boldest crossover of history......
And the most confusing before the dceu
I mean, greek myth WAS canonized into thinhbs called the Trojan cycle and Theban cycle and so on....so yeah they did have EU'S exactly like we did!!
Personally, i love the acronym HEU (Homeric Epic Universe or Homeric Extended Universe)
looks like heureka, too
And it all wrapped up awesomely in endgame, well kind of sort of, because *spoiler alert*...
Kratos kills everyone.
This is one of the best things I’ve seen all day
*Achilles:* [hits Hector with the chair]
*Hector:* _DO'H!!! I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU'VE DONE THIS!!!_ [dies]
Wait..... Is that a vine reference?
It's spelled "annoyed grunt."
@@brettshair3151 it's not from a vine, but a much much older youtube video
@@zillasaul ooooooh!!! Thanks!!!
That's a funny way to spell "aw fuck"
Is nobody going to say anything about the Baby Blue Bowl cut?
No?
Ok
I didn't always have this glorious, flowing, two-dimensional, black-and-white mane.
-B
He stil has this arrogant smug i know better look XD we all love.
@@jonsnor4313 meaner than I think you were going for
Sorry he looks cute in a funny way doing that boss pose. I was trying tobe sarcastic, but i guess that didnt work. And i think its brave to put out a kids picture. O would be embarrassed
XD yh I agree. And you're right, and I'm sure everything was meant in jest
So Homer is basically the Walt Disney of Ancient Greece...
Or hes a time traveler
Dude, YES
Knowing Better Your videos are the freaking bomb. I love how rational and logical you are in approaching some really political/controversial topics. Most above all, you do your research and it always shows.
Homer laid the groundwork for Joss Whedon
I read that at the same time as a Disney ad.
So the Iliad is Homer’s dark gritty reboot of an already existing story?
Is Homer the Tim Burton of Ancient Greece?
Zach Synder.
Tim Burton isn't gritty, he's whimsical in his darkness.
No it’s an accurate retelling that was inspired by the muses
... this was posted the exact minute I finished my Iliad Final. I'm not sure whether to be happy or furious.
I dunno... seems a lil suspich
You could be happorious!
Well, it's a lesson either way.
Channel your Achilles rage and refuse to accept your grade unless your teacher apologizes in front of the whole class.
I swear, every time I click on an OSP video I always think I've learned the topic enough only to get blasted with knowledge Blue and Red probably had to fish from the remnants of the Library of Alexandria to get. Well done, guys. A++ content as always. 👌
Cindy Sarangay Well, Blue did travel back and time and steal the Library of Alexandra, Braniac-style. So, that is entirely plausible, especially with Google Translate.
I like to think that after the apocalypse, when civilization gets rebuilt there will be historians dedicated to study the infinity war saga and there’s going to be a bunch of crazy theories for things that don’t make sense to them.
“So this Spider-Man character seems to have a big, pronounce introduction to the story even tho his involvement was minimal overall, his origin story isn’t even mentioned. We think he was a massively worship deity BEFORE the infinity war saga”
“We have concluded that there most be a story bit missing between Thor and Thor Ragnarok, but why the ancient ones decided not to mention it, that we may never know”
“Guardians of the Galaxy was written hundreds of years after the original text and then retroactively inserted, because boy it does not make tonal sense with the rest of the narrative”
“Iron man is clearly a more modern interpretation of the god Batman made by another civilization, the similarities are just too many”
“The winter soldier and Capitan America where lovers, is barely even subtext”
Don't forget the great Bio-Magician Stan Lee and his scribe Jack Kirby. Stan Lee appears to have been responsible for the syrup of Captain America, the Radiation of Hulk, the Radiation Spider, and the magical X-Pants that turned teenages into Demi-gods.
Connor Marlow oh yes tons
Spidey is definitely the Quetzalcoatl of the MCU
With all the different movie versions of spider-man I can imagine more confusion.
Let’s just hope they only find canon content and not the FANFICTIONS. Because some of the fanfics I’ve read and/or come across are ... dear God.
Wait, the Iliad and Odyssey are supposed to be sung?...…..
Now, this is a story;
All about how,
the city of Troy
turned upside down.....
Now take a little moment
just sit right there
and ill tell you how I became basileus
of a little town called troy
In Mycenaean Greece, kinged and raised
On the battlefield is where I spent most of my days
Chillin' out maxin' relaxin' all cool
And all throwin some javelins outside of the temple
When a couple of princes who were up to no good
Started making trouble with my marriage-hood
She got in one little ship and I got scared
I said, "We're goin' to war with my army to a city called Troy"
I read all of that to the tune.
Same
The lack of rhyming makes me very nettled.
Here's a scary note: the oldest copy we have of Homer's works dates to more than a millennium after Homer died, about 300 AD.
It's okay Blue, you can just say that it's ancient fanfiction.
I mean let's face it, most mythology is functionally fanfiction.
@@grafvonscyth2928 all mythology is fan fiction
I hope that some time in the future someone is going to write "The World War" and get locations, people and battles mixed up and then even farther into the future this guy will be a mythical writer.
Catch 22
Don't worry eventually civilization would start anew and we would be mythical beings in there religion my dude
Oh yeah, that guy will be me for certain.
If you read any historical fiction, you'll see lots of incorrect stuff.
"Far back in the mists of time, before the Column of Fire ate Neo Yoruk and Kali'Forniae fell into the sea, there were the three mighty empires of You-Rope..."
The inclusion of "We are Number One" lyrics cracked me up so hard when I noticed them! XD
But not the lyrics to All Star?
Can you *PLEASE* elaborate on that MCU = Epic Cycle theory? Comics + history? That sounds AMAZING.
Philosophical Phridays Volume 2, chapter 22, page 267. Have fun :)
-B
@@OverlySarcasticProductions I haven't bought an actual book in months, because I'm a cheapskate and the internet exists...but dammit, 8 bucks for that kind of analysis is a steal! I am now the proud digital owner of this sacred tome...
"MCU is the Epic cycle of the modern Era"
*Smashes like button*
Absolutly yes, I think the same.
I hadn't thought of it, but holy shit it makes so much sense.
I know right?
Some remote corner of my brain totally knew this, but I'd've never become aware of it without Blue pointing it out. He's 100% right
That never crossed my mind until now, he’s right
So hyped! Can't wait for the new series!
Homer was wack, bro.
Don't do Homer kids, it'll fuck up your brain.
Womer was hack, bro.
“The difficulty is not so great to die for a friend, as to find a friend worth dying for.”
-Homer
This is painfully correct.
"If you're famously blind, that's got to put a bit of a damper on your writing capabilities". Here we see where Red and Blue differ. If this were a Red video, I GUARANTEE Toph would have shown up at some point in that sentence.
Honestly, strong possibility blind ppl had an easier time with cuneiform and tablets
@@StonedtotheBones13oooo that’s actually an interesting possibility
As a Finn, I enjoy the interesting comparison between this and my people's national epic, the Kalevala, published by one Elias Lönnrot in 1848. He composed the epic by visiting numerous bards in rural Karelia and listening to the poems they had memorised. He believed these poems to have originated from prehistoric, pagan Iron Age Finland from circa 6th to 13th centuries. The complete epic was constructed by putting the poems in an order that made a coherent story, with some editor's additions for explaining matters as the mysterious Sampo (which was not described in the original poems beyond being the target of many characters' desire; Lönnrot interpreted it as a magical mill that would produce boundless amounts of grain, salt, and gold). Later in his life, Lönnrot claimed that the poems he had collected could have been shaped into ten alternate and equally narratively coherent version of the Kalevala. Incidentally, one of Lönnrot's most valuable sources, Miihkali Perttunen, was also blind.
My high school had Homeric Greek as part of a "classic languages" path, so a lot of my peers were able to recite the opening lines of the Illiad. I always loved hearing them do it. In Greek, it's so melodic and yet powerful. I can see why people got invested when Homer did it.
I always love how homer did his research about bronze age weapons but the medieval/rennasaince painters didnt giving characters weapons and armor that 3000 years further into the future.
Is that kinda like portraying Vikings using laser blasters?
@@JaelinBezel Given how people usually do things, more likely it's vikings with lightsabres.
Homeric Cinematic Universe when?!
Iliad, Odyssey (and Aeneid, the black sheep)
Iron Man, Iron Man 2 & Iron Man 3, respectively (altho I like IM3)
Don't forget the Oresteia trilogy!
"Around 1870 the Archeologist Heinrich Schliemann straight-up FOUND the ruins of Troy just by homer literally said it was... Then blew it up with Dynamite."
I found a book that theorizes that Schleiman didn't find the Troy of the Illiad. That Troy is in England and was fought by Celts over control of tin. Where Troy Once Stood by Iman Jacob Wilkens 2nd Ed. Really interesting!
There's a theory that Homer was a family name, for a family of bards. This would explain a lot.
So what I’ve gathered from this is that The Iliad and Odyssey are the Ancient World’s MCU
And then there's Jason and the Argonauts, which is basically The Avengers.
I mean Achilles, Ajax and Diomedes were pretty much the Iron Man, Thor and Captain America.
Ancient Greek: Have you heard the tenth book of the Iliad yet? Ancient Greek 2: No, don't spoil it. Ancient Greeek 3: Zeus dies in the Iliad! Greek 2: Tarturus!
Petroclus's final words to Achilles:
(Endgame spoilers ahead)
I love you 3000.
I am Achilles *snaps his fingers and Hector turns to dust*
4:55 Blue is truly a literary scholar, he knows to pay homage to the Number One poet.
Three Possibilities
1 Homer plagiarized older writers(Personally I doubt this one but hey could be)
2 Homer was a history buff who wrote a historical fiction based on anally maintained records still available at the time. (Personally I find this one much more likely).
3 Athena and or Hermes sat down with Homer to do an interview with him for a tell all book/poem. (Clearly the correct one).
You forgot version 4: Homer himself didn't exist but is the pen name of a group effort of several writers, possibly over some generations.
Anally maintained records. Definitely.
Yes, plagiarism before that was a thing...
imagine actually believing oral tradition is plagiarism
Definitely number 3. Either that or Homer is a clever disguise for either Athena or Hermes...
This is officially my favorite UA-cam channel. I have a passion for history and mythology, so thank you Red and Blue for such awesome content!
Homer: a blind men who summarize/translate short stories from song to poem and create a two of the greatest greek stories ever.
Where's my Greek Cinematic Universe tho?? But seriously, the modern version of the epic cycle? You're a freaking genius
Please do more of these videos, I'm already super psyched whenever Red drops another "Greek Deity Origin Story" and I would love to see more of these sorts of "History Maker" videos as well!
The Odysseus and Diomedes' night raid part is probably Homer advertising his new epic.
Finding connections between these vids and my Latin class always makes me happy.
Thanks, Blue
Honestly I want to see Greek Mythology made into a cinematic universe. You have the small stories like Hercules, works, Theseus and the Minotaur, The Odyssey. Then the big crossover events like Jason and the Argonauts and The Iliad.
I SO agree with you on the Avengers epic concept, I used it as an example to explain Homer in class just this wednesday!! I mean, doesn't infinity war just remind us of achilles and agamemnon's conflict juuust a little? And overall, great video!!
I would find it hilarious if in 1500 years when some archaeologist finds the Marvel cinematic universe story and goes holy crap this is what it was like back then?
Closer to 2,500 but aye that'd be amazing.
Because I think more likely, is that someone is going to write some kind of fanfiction about the MCU and the print it out, and THAT'LL be what survives rather than the films.
Or, worse yet. One generation after the collapse of civilisation, when technology is unusable due to lack of electricity, some guy who heard his fathers explain the MCU to him finds some of the old fucking comics from the 80s or whatever from someone's collection and tries to stitch together some version of Endgame, but with the original psychopath Thanos that's trying to impress the incarnation of death rather than the Malthusian misanthrope that he is in the actual films.
@@grafvonscyth2928 That sounds absolutely amazing, not gonna lie.
Scholar Guy: Can you sing a song about me?
Slavs: We got this
Thank you very much for this video and greetings from Kazakhstan! At first this theory sounded like an obvious thing to me because in Kazakh literature we have the same thing. It wasn’t common to write down stories or poems for the majority of the population, they always memorized them. There were even contests where singers had to improvise a short poem about a given topic. So I assume it’s not a common thing in western culture, but I may be wrong.
Homer was the Kevin Feige of the Greek Cinematic Universe
Does that mean Odysseus is the GCU's Iron Man?
@@dublinjake I would have said Achilles because at the end of the Trojan War he... you know... died.
@@joshuakusuma5953 Yes, but, Odysseus and Tony Stark are both bearded smartasses who survive terrible journeys to get back to their families.
@@dublinjake odysseus is tony starks ancestor comfirmed
Elrond makes fun of the epic poets even as he is in the middle of one: "Come! Tell us your tale. And if you have not yet cast your story into verse, you may tell it in plain words."
i’m something of a homersexual myself
Bart Simpson is on the phone for you.
so you're sexually attracted to old men rocking that English teacher style?
@@MrGemHunter
wait you're not?
@@q345ify na, ive fucked a few but most of them are a little up their own ass, which understandably makes the fucking a little harder.
@@MrGemHunter
my condolences I wouldn't have that problem
Homer dropped his mixtape and it was so hot, it lasted for thousands of years. What a guy
Homer described Nestor as having an iron mace. Whoops. Homer also describes Achaean chariot wheels as having 8-spokes, when, in the Bronze Age, they had 4-spokes. One on one duels were unique to the Iron Age, as was the idea of throwing spears in battle like javelins.
Minor errors, the poetry of Homer is still verifiable through archeology and astronomy (the dates of the Trojan Wars have been determined using the astronomical events and the Greeks were brilliant at reading the heavens). Meanwhile, the Bible describes the 'history' of the Jews and an 'exodus' out of Egypt despite the German archeologists from the 20th century and the Israeli archeologists recently, are still, unable to come up with any evidence of a group of people who walked the Egyptian deserts for 40 years. More problematic is the Iron Age Hebrew does not fit the names and thus genealogy of the supposed earlier events.
Eben335 I know, I just pointing out a few minor errors in Homer's works just for laughs. Even George R.R. Martin has a couple of minor errors in A Game of Thrones, the first book in his A Song of Ice and Fire series.
@@KTChamberlain Very good. I just find it interesting what some people call myth, legend and sometimes history etc.
I literally just typed "Homer" in the search bar expecting nothing but Homer Simpson videos. To my surprise, this was at the very top. Nice.
*Sees the title*
Cue the Yuri on Ice and Simpsons jokes.
Okay so I'm not the only one who found this video because of History Maker lol
I subscribed and rang the notification bell.
10 minutes with Blue teaches more about history than entire classes in school.
2:00
GALAHAD: "Perhaps he was dictating?"
ARTHUR: Oh, shut up. Well, does it say anything else?
MAYNARD: No. Just 'aaarrrrggh'.
8:25 There's also the possibility of later bards/writers claiming 'Homer wrote it' to add legitimacy to their own, derivative work, like when you talk about 'a buddy of mine...'.
I'm reminded of Red's video on Arthurian legend and how many characters started as someone's glorified fanfic OC.
This video series better continue, I’ve always wanted to know more details about the storytellers and historymakers of the past
I would be very interested in seeing a video like this about Herodotus, considering how controversial he is. Yes we know that reading the Histories should be done with a grain of salt, but I want to know why he chose to write his life work in such a manner. How did the Iron Age Greeks view the concept of history, if Herodotus wasn't a good historian, then is his work still worth reading? Yes I know Thucydides was a better historian, but the fact that Herodotus is considered both the father of history and the father of lies makes him that much more interesting to me. Keep up the good work Blue.
This kind of checks out in the modern day too! When my grandma told me stories of the Mahabharata, she picked just a single plotline and explained it to me (although, in our mother tongue, rather than Sanskrit)
"Let me watch this new video by the youtuber I respect and have patience wit-
Blue:"HEY GUYS I WROTE A BOOK ARE YOU OF PROUD OF ME! AM I A GOOD BOY?"
Fascinating that you’re making a series on the history makers! I would recommend one on Giorgio Vasari, I mean the man practically invented the concept of the Renaissance and he is its number one reference with his Lives of the Artists book. I came to know about him through The Medici: Godfathers of the Renaissance pbs documentary, then looked more on him in Andrew Graham-Dixon’s excellent two part show: Travels with Vasari(bbc).
Anyhow, great job on this one Blue!
PS: If Red finishes up reading the romance of the three kingdoms book, maybe there’ll be a history/literature combo, promoted by TotalWar: Three kingdoms?
Idk, but anyways keep it up you guys!
Fascinating
I’d love to hear more about your theory of cinematic universe as epic. It fits with the idea of superheroes as the modern mythology
4:56 *We are number one,hey!*
Wow!I didn't know it was actually Homer's!
Well Blue
You do have a point about the marvel movies being like the greek epics
But I'd argue that the marvel comics did that first and the movies are adapting what the comics did by making everything connected
It's still really cool tho
Exactly, the Marvel Comics are the original canon just as the stories Homer learned were carried down over generations in oral tradition, then Homer sewed them into a unified story much like Kevin Feige combined stories from the comics into a unified storyline for the MCU. Basically Homer = Kevin Feige.
Yep Homer is one complicated dude that's for sure! Actually living in Greece and having studied both the Iliad and Odyssey I'm actually really impressed with how much information Blue was able to gather!! But what did I expect? it's kinda the theme of the channel sooo 😂😂😂
(Because of Marvel ending)
I like this video
*smashes like button*
ANOTHER!!!!!
But yes, this was interesting, I kinda wanna see Dante Alighieri and Virgil done next
PLEASE YES MOAR!
I would love to hear your takes on the people who wrote this history books! Examine origins, biases, styles, myths.... OMG I'm HYPE
Happy Troy month everyone. Celebrating 3,202 years of Troy Story.
I remember being 12 or 13 and love history class, especially Greece and Rome and their mythologies, and that’s one of the reasons why I love this channel. This idea of the history makers’ history is very cool and I really hope you keep it up. Nice work!
The description you give of how they use epithets to fill the meter reminds me of the Nordic/Icelandic kennings in the Poetic Edda.
It's my birthday today and this was an interesting gift
PS: you guys are my favorite history UA-cam channel and I love your content keep up the good work
Really enjoyed this type of video! Would love it if you did more
I really liked this and would be happy to hear more :D
Also, the half surprised tone in your voice whenever you mention your book always makes me laugh, so thanks for both that and the text being advertised
This made me realize that I should probably do some research into real world bards to help with writing my fictional bard character.
I loved the video. Anything history related I love. I'm still hoping for a big Romance of the Three Kingdoms romp. Your narration with Red's artwork and music. It would be amazing.
Oh wait this isn't the Simpsons
You are the true definition of an underrated comment.
I absolutely LOVE that analysis of the MCU though. It's basically the same as what the Iliad and Odyssey were, just in a different form. Good thinking, Blue!
Woo!! Your videos always make Fridays great.
I did come to this channel for reds works but blue you really fill that empty hole in my head that thirsts for things most aren't interested in
Yeah Homer Simpson is the best so stupid yet so funny
We are legally required to make that joke, yeah
Dough
Between the tone, subject matter, and clear passion both blue and red put into this channel I don’t know if they could make something I wouldn’t watch
MCU & Super heroes in general are totally the modern equivalent of Mythology
One personal theory I have since taking Ancient History and Archaeology 101 in college is that another reason Homer was so popular was his ability to tell stories also is what got him freed from slavery. It's been awhile since I've refreshed my memory on this subject, so please excuse me if I'm a little off with this, (Actually, Amend that-- please correct me if I am wrong!!!) but if I'm not mistaken for a number of years Homer himself was in fact believed to have been a slave at some point in his life, but was later recognized as a "citizen" by his former master and freed for his ability to tell stories the way he could. :)
This was a wonderful video, I'd definitely love to see another about Homer or on other Ancient poets and storytellers! :D Maybe you guys should consider a crossover with Jon Solo as well.
And I thought Hermès was complicated
I love your break down of the oral poetry aspect of the Homeric epics. I think not enough people know about that and it's so damn cool to study those aspects. Most people in my Classics year didn't know it until it came up in a lecture. Love your content so much. (Rewatching old vids)
The Odyssey was a better story but the Iliad is more of an action story, full with powerful heroes and gruesome battles
Phase 2 of the GTU (Greek Theatrical Universe) was much more plot-driven than the earlier more action-focused Phase 1 with the Achilles arc.
And it has more weapons in it.
so homer is basically an ancient filip visnjic, a blind bard, singing about epic battles he never witnessed, so good at it that someone wrote it down and atributed it to him
a) really like this new series! b) think you are right about MCU. c) consider: WWE is modern Shakespeare [as in big bombastic drama for the masses...]
fun fact Homer cameoed in Disney's Hercules and was voiced by Dan Castellaneta who voiced Homer Simpson an interesting fun tidbit
So... Homer was pretty much just Ancient Greek Netflix then?
Yeah but with only originals
Am I the only one who hasn’t watched the Simpsons?
Also I love this and all your other videos. They’re always so well thought out and well researched. It’s a lovely breath of fresh air. Your videos are more educational, understandable and historically accurate than my ancient history lessons at school (I’ve started fact checking my teacher and she isn’t exactly correct most of the time). So thank you for the fantastic information, it’s always really interesting to hear about what you’ve learnt
I've also never watched the Simpsons.
Simply put Homer was the granddaddy of dropping fiery mixtape?
PLEASE do more for this series. It was so interesting hearing context to Homer, and not just the usual factoids.
Simpson?
Marge?
The comparison of having a book's worth of song lyrics memorized is so relatable.
First comment! Lol now that I've made everyone roll their eyes.
I am super excited for this topic! Thanks for covering it!
Ooh. Plus poetry lesson. Thank you blue!
Who also heard the sound of Homer from The Simpsons saying *"DOH"* after reading the title? 😂😂😂
I remember my teacher of Ancient History saying that Homer's two most famous stories were so different in tone and ways they are told that he was probably not the one to come up with any of em.
And while I failed that class (miserably), it made me way more interested in both stories and the idea of one day seeing em become HBO level of production TV series
Baby blue has red eyes. Conspiracy started!!!
Reverse Flash confirmed! It explains why his is good with history.
I already love your work but this speaks right to my little hearts and I will eagerly yet patiently wait for each installment. I love getting historical context on such things, learning where the threads connect, as it were, and your approach helps it stick in my fatigued brain (acquired brain injury can do that) rather than it just tosses it. So...thank you.
You’re videos are so familiar to me, that I feel like saying:
“Honey I’m Homer”
I was just admiring the production quality of this video. You know, the graphics and informative diagrams are always really well done. Thanks for your effort, guys. ❤
7 views and 25 likes youtube go home youre drunk
No, Overly Sarcastic Productions is just that great.
Thanks, this is exactly what I needed today.