Tope Koleoso: How Should a Reformed Pastor Be Charismatic? Desiring God 2013 Conference for Pastors
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- Опубліковано 24 сер 2024
- Tope Koleoso at Desiring God 2013 Conference for Pastors, speaking on 'Sovereign Grace, Spiritual Gifts, and the Pastor: How Should a Reformed Pastor Be Charismatic?'
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I can appreciate a pastor who can quote Calvin and speak in tongues
I am not a Calvinist, but I love my reformed Charismatics.
This man should be the definition of passionate
He says he bows down to the word, and makes distinction between empty experiences and real power of Holy Spirit in the beginning of the video, he's saying that without the holy spirit. God uses pastors to do his ministry, we don't serve religion, or a denomination, we serve Jesus. I'm in a reformed fellowship, and yes the word is the center, but along with the word, we also pray for the holy spirit's guidance. These are God's gift, and we can't quench them.
1/1/2016 This post is actually my new year gift!!! True issue addressed here. As a new convert, I thank God for teaching me through reformed guys like RC, Piper, Paul Washer... My question has always been: Although their teaching is sound and beautiful, is there any power in it? Between the excesses of the Holy Ghost-gifts-focus pentecostals and the "Big knowledge" of the Reformed pairs, there's a huge gap. Is the right attitude somewhere in the middle of the two, I've always wondered...
I agree with you brother. Like you as a new convert in 2010, I was exposed to Reformed Theology. However, I believe there is a common ground.
Sand C. THIS is what our enemy the Devil fears and has suppressed over the past two Millenia. Revivals through the centuries have seen the Holy Spirit effortlessly and easily "power" through our misty perceptions of what the Word of God supremely teaches! Hallelujah!
Have you found any good resources? I too believe the best place is somewhere in the middle
that's why I think that, a lot of people read the bible (like my religions professor), but not everyone who does believes in Jesus right away, a lot of people can read the bible and never feel convicted of sin (the Job of the holy spirit) and it was only when I believed in Jesus, receiving the holy spirit, that the bible makes sense and I was able to love God.
Thos was good and necessary for the Lord's church. Very good.
In Acts 19, two men tried to cast out demons in Jesus name (and in the gospels Jesus said that anyone who prays anything in his name, it will be done), they know this part of scripture, but they couldn't cast it out because probably they didn't belong to Jesus at that time, the demon says he knows Paul. Im not saying, u have to be anointed in spirit speaking in tongues and prophesying to be saved or forgiven, it can't replace repentance or even earn jesus' forgiveness
when Jesus was tempted in the Desert, he commanded the devil to go away, and quoted scripture afterwords, and indeed in Ephesians 6, put on the whole armor of God, it says that the word of God is the sword of the spirit. and there are other things like helmet of salvation, putting on gospel of peace, belt of truth, etc.
I forgot to say about Jesus commanding the devil, he did it with the power of holy spirit along with scripture, but I mean, this is how I take it, and I've seen both bad and good fruits of the gift (because of proper and improper use), but that's my take on it,
I have a Christian friend who is charismatic. She says that there needs to be an anointing of the Spirit along with the Word of God. It's like saying the Scripture is insufficient. The Spirit works through God's Word because He breathed it out. The power of the Holy Spirit is not in speaking tongues, raising your hands in worship but the power is in taking a sinner who hates God, works in their heart and mind to believe and then begins a transformative work of conforming that person to Christ.
i wish a Gods poeple would dance and weep for joy in worship to Him. I wish a Gods poeple would long for the holyspirits leading and power. I wish all God poeple would lay hands on the sick and love them in prayer for wholeness in the spirit and body. i wish all Gods people would stop leaning on their own understanding and put the bible down for a time and be still and fast and here what our father has to say. I wish people would KNOW Jesus for themself. not through churches teaching BUT HIS.
and yes, scripture says, the holy spirit convicts us of sin and judges, which inclines us to repent. Then he transforms us, but the gifts are additional things God gives, after we are saved. I believe that the spirit is sealed with us the moment we believe in Christ, but, Paul encouraged us to desire gifts, which I don't see how it undermines the word. The bible is a closed book, but there are many unbelievers, and Paul said its a sign for unbelievers. For believers, it edifies them.
thank you jesus
amen
You wish God's people would put their bible down for a time and listen to God? God speaks through the Bible, and commands us to use scripture to verify and test any spirit that claims to be of him.
You find way more instances in the Bible where we are commanded to study God's words than to seek spiritual and emotional sensations or signs and wonders.
Bro you miss understand me. or maybe you want too? To verify and test any spirit that claims to be of Him. When this was wrote. It was not scripture. Do we worship Jesus or the bible? Jesus said my sheep know my vioce. not my sheep know the bible. The books contained in the bible are supernatural. Only understood if the spirit reveals it. Not by a fine degree. Cause i walk with Him emotions. sensations. sings wounders Ive be a part of and His word is not absent in all this. He is the word. love
Jesus taught and preached from the Torah, so we should obviously study the Torah and Jesus from the New testament. God has preserved his word and truth that is the Bible for our good, for without it, we will lack the wisdom of discernment.
How can one tell the difference between the true spirit of God from a demon in disguise if we don't know the scriptures? Jesus refuted Satan's temptations with scriptures of the Torah, that's how we should protect ourselves as well.
"and yes the word is the center, but along with the word . . ." This statement shows exactly why Reformed churches cannot be charismatic. The word is not the center but shares the center with the Holy Spirit according to charismatics. A biblical Reformed church understands, teaches, and believes that the Spirit works through His Word, they don't work alongside each other. That's the great error of charismatic theology.
A Reformed pastor cannot be charismatic in the sense that Tope is teaching. Reformed theology teaches that God's Word is the centrality of the pastor's work, not some experience. Tope mocks preaching,"jolly sermon." I thought Reformed theology was immune from this type of error. Boy, am I wrong. Towards the video's end he says something about how the pastor should let his church, sheep, see him raising his hands in worship instead of preaching.
There's no such thing as a Reformed Charismatic. If you are Charismatic, you are not Reformed and not Biblical.
Christ Gets All Glory This is non-biblical - the main argument for cessationism is the extra-biblical, non-verifiable idea that the gifts ceased in history. Paul says "earnestly desire the spiritual gifts, especially that you may prophecy.." 1 Cor 14:1. Some of the strongest command language then re-emphasize it at the end of the chapter.
And the main problem he points out is that the church doesn't pray - and if we do we ask for the gifts from His hand, but don't seek his face.
***** #WhoOrdainedU
Purely Presbyterian 1 Corinthians 14:39.....
argue with that boi.
charismatic doesn't always mean charismania. Sam Storms, Matt Chandler, Mark Driscoll, John Piper, that's reformed Charismatic. charismatic does not always mean neo Charismatic necromancy/New Apostolic Reformation/7MM Dominionism.
Cessationism is heresy!
The Sovereign Liar Heresy
"The general principle is that we should respect the text’s literary genre when interpreting Scripture. This is correct. Even though I say this, I am not on the side of Calvinists and Reformed Christians when it comes to how they handle Scripture. On many issues, they are the most zealous enemies of the Christian faith, contradicting God’s word and persecuting those who believe it. In practice, they consider no promise in the Bible that speaks to this life as a real promise, but only a vague suggestion of a possible outcome. To them, the doctrine of divine sovereignty means that God often breaks his promises, so that no promise in the Bible is a guarantee. But if a promise is a promise, then it is indeed a guarantee, and God always keeps a promise. One reason for this perversion of divine sovereignty is to hide their unbelief. When they fail to receive something from God, instead of admitting their lack of faith and hardness of heart, they blame God’s sovereignty. Regardless of what the Bible promises, this and that did not happen because “God is sovereign.”God sovereignly makes his promises, and he always sovereignly keeps his promises. The Calvinist-Reformed Sovereign Liar is not the Christian God. Any Arminian who believes that God always keeps his promises, including his promises regarding healing, prosperity, deliverance, and material blessings, is by far more orthodox than any Calvinist or Reformed christian who claims to arm God’s sovereignty, but then exploits the doctrine to justify his own unbelief. No Pentecostal should be intimidated by the Sovereign Liar Heresy. In fact, if the Word of Faith charismatics were to excommunicate the Reformed for this, I would not lift a finger in protest. I cannot, since I would have no biblical basis to defend the Reformed. Another popular principle of Bible interpretation that they have adopted is that we must not derive doctrine from the narrative portions of Scripture, but only from the didactic portions of Scripture. This is a blatant lie, and it is against Scripture’s own use of narratives. This creates a canon within the canon, and in effect becomes a denial of divine inspiration and biblical inerrancy, which in turn means that they are anti-Christian heretics. As usual, it appears one motive for this error is to sidestep some of the most explicit teachings in the Bible. An example is the biblical doctrine that the baptism of the Holy Spirit is a different and subsequent experience from regeneration or conversion. Their approach to Scripture is correct on a number of issues, but on many others they are the most sinister hypocrites and religious charlatans. No matter what you get right, once you. make God into a liar, you lose everything. They are some of the worst heretics, and at the same time the most zealous persecutors of God’s people." Vincent Cheung
None of the reformers were charismatic. None of the puritans either. No one sound in church history believed the gifts were still operating.
You can't be Reformed and Charismatic. You may have Calvinistic leanings but you're not even historically a true Calvinist.
Andre Ricardo Baksh Cessationism is heresy you idiot! There are plenty of reformed charismatics you moron!
thank you jesus
amen