It was his _name day_ a few days ago (as celebrated in the Czech Republic) and his birthday is around the end of January, I will determine the correct date soon.
@@vaclavtrpisovsky Jesus is born in the summer not in the winter.. But he didn't ever celebrate his birthday not his followers.. And winter in the desert? How about santa=satan.. Too much nonsense
Thanks for another very informative video! The thing with the battery imbalance is a shame, especially coming from Lidl. Their products are normally of good quality... Nice editing skills btw ;) at 3:29 I thought I was tripping when I saw that pen go under those numbers haha
Nice analysis like always. And many thanks for enabling auto-captions, even with google-trans errors it eases a lot for people like me, who don't have good ear for English language.
English isn't his first language, so it's not so easy for English speaking people to understand either. However his accent and funny comments are one of the main reasons that people come to this channel.
Video is very good. I bought a renhotecic power supply not long ago and tested it, and it feels that the effect is OK. It is recommended that friends in need can try to prepare a copy.
Totally agree with the video. What's interesting to me is that for batteries we use the term "charge" but we don't mean it in the electrostatic sense (joules per coulomb) we specify energy as Watt/hrs not joules per second. However it does make sense if you know the constant current and voltage your load draws.
Merry Christmas, DiodeGomeWild :) thanks for this review! It probably didn't get the full capacity because it wasn't fully charging the cells to 3.6V/3.7V (3.7V max for LiFePO4). Better charging circuitry (including balance charging) would resolve this. It also didn't discharge the cells fully either - and the same often happens with Li-Ion powerbanks (for mobile phones) as well. I saw a previous video that GreatScott did about a powerbank and he found that it was cutting the cells off at 3.2V instead of 2.5V - 3.0V. Doing this gives a slightly better cell lifespan, at the expense of battery capacity. So it's entirely possible that the PCB has a higher cut off e.g. when the first cell reaches 2.7V, rather than when all cells reach 2.0V - 2.5V (balance discharging would also help). The only way to get the true capacity of the pack would be to hook it up to a balance charger/meter (such as Turnigy Accucel or SkyRC Imax) with all balance wires connected, then run a balance charge and a balance discharge. (Though having said that, 90% available capacity is still good for the vast majority of people.) It will be interesting to see how this battery imbalances itself over time, as all Lithium Ion battery packs do - as usually one or two weak cells will limit the functionality of the entire pack (this is definitely what happens in laptop battery packs, anyway).
Agree about full discharge and charge to 100% (both according to particular battery chemistry, obviously) as single way how to determine true capacity. By the way would not hurt to have balance connector socket on case with a switch to make battery charging from any hobby charger possible in case when you must start your car with empty battery still in this day (things happen when no one with a working car is nearby, first person experience).
The usefulness of that should be tested. You can see that the cells are much more balanced when nearly discharged. That may help preserving the capacity of the weaker batteries in the long run. A balancer might maximize the cranking power, but it'd have its drawbacks.
@@atdzsny That would depend on the bms... how is low voltage detected, individual cell, or total voltage? If it's using individual voltage, then as soon as one cell reaches low voltage, output is cut off, so no problem to over-discharge any of the cells, but if total voltage is used, then it's much better if cells are kept balanced all the time. Also, in soft discharges, cells would be balanced "on the go", since the system is independent. Only in high power discharges, cell imbalance could cause a problem, but discharge the pack directly all at once very fast is not recommended... As you said, it should be tested.
@@DanielLopez-kt1xt That's OK, but I think the main selling point is jumpstarting here, and it seems there's no individual cell protection on that output.
No point in top balancing since the only way it could use the charge from one cell to "top up" the charge of another cell is if the higher cell is over-charged above normal specs. So overcharging is overcharging.
@@johncoops6897 the use of an active balancer would be precisely to take all cells to 4.2v without over-charging cells, and use them all the closer ton fully charged possible. Drawing too much power from a discharged battery is bad, so by keeping them all balanced at top charge would prevent that... no overcharge, no overdischarge...
it would probably charge the battery to 14,4V. But most BMS dont have any balance resistors. The charge is simply terminated if one cell reaches 3,6V (your 3,57V cell).
Hi, I also distributed this powerbank and tested it briefly. I was curious how it is with the balancing of the article and I have to say according to the first knowledge that I charge it really well and it's not as bad as it looks. I also had differences in the tension of individual cells after charging. I didn't measure it immediately after charging, but only after a while after the values stabilized, and I also had differences in tension. Lowest - 3.43V max.- 3.57V. I wanted to test all cells, especially how much capacity they can fit in them after charging with the supplied adapter, so I started to charge each cell separately and I found out that even though the voltage difference was 0.14V without load, I am the weakest cell with a voltage of 3.43V charged only 10mAh digital charger and was charged at a voltage of 3.6V and a short time when the charging current decreases terminated. The difference of 10mAh comes to me Ok. After charging each cell, I measured the voltage of all cells separately and they already had the same voltage. When discharging via the USB port, I measured the voltage of all cells and it was the same. I will discharge the power bank and try to recharge it to full capacity via the supplied USB adapter, and after charging I will try to recharge the additional individual cells separately until the end of charging and compare the differences. If the result is the same, then there is nothing Bat. It is a possible characteristic of these batteries that even 10 mAh in capacity can cause a drop in cell voltage of up to 0.2V. During the load, the tension equalizes. Give it a try and let it know.
In your original video the battery was not fully charged and at 3,3V. Because the lifepo4 charge und discharge curve is so flat, it is only possible to get an accurate SOC at the very high and low ends of the voltagerange. The pack was bottom balanced.
I think they give the Ah because you normally have only same voltage for a given application and it also helps with early load current formular like 2*C
Storage devices are actually OK as far as I can see. Any inconsistencies are down to operating systems displaying the units incorrectly. For example: Mac OS shows capacity in GB (decimal units, multiples of 1000); Linux shows the capacity as GiB (binary units, multiples of 1024); however Windows misleadingly reports the capacty in "GB" (whilst actually using GiB for calculation). The same goes for other units: 1kB = 1000B; 1MB = 1000kB; 1GB = 1000MB; 1TB = 1000GB However: 1kiB = 1024B; 1MiB = 1024kiB; 1GiB = 1024MiB; 1TiB = 1024GiB (Also note from above, the difference between binary and decimal units increases with larger units.) Hence why your 2TB hard drive actually only shows up (under Windows, at least) as "1.81 TB", because they're using the decimal notation with binary calculations!
It's because the international airlines want clearly shown the total capacity of the BATTERY CELLS, not the capacity of the output circuits. A powerbank with 5 x 2000mAh Lithium 18650's inside is labelled as 10,000mAh. It might output 5V or even 9V or 12V if QC or PD stepup converter is inside, however the CELLS are what matters for the transport industry.
@@willjohnsonjohnson ironically RAM manufacturers state their RAM sizes using the binary system as you state, yet the manufacturers (and Windows) shows it as GB, not GiB. However, Ubuntu Linux does show RAM size as GiB, which is correct.
That battery pack is probably a 3S configuration. If you note, on the balance connector there are 2 red and 2 ground wires coming out in parallel designed to handle the power the usb ports and board through a boost converter. I have tore apart many of these starters. This is not the standard Balance jst-xh plug but are usually a smaller pitch. They are internally wired differently for this purpose. If you probe the pack from the side, you will probably feel the 3 cells through the shrink wrap. I might be wrong because I never opened a Lidl starter. (EDIT: You're right! I missed the first video It's LiFePO4...3.2 X 4 = 12.8V)
Quite a weird one. Perhaps they're doing it this way because 14.4V isn't necessary? Typically the bms cuts off when one cell drops below a threshold while discharging, but here it seems it cuts off when one cell reaches a threshold while charging. Hopefully it's a design feature and not just a horribly designed battery pack.
@@jumpspower-heavydutyminipo6350 it does make sense to ommit it when it's not needed, as it massively reduces the complexity and cost. The only tradeoff is that it would have a bit more jumpstart oomph if it did charge all the cells fully.
@@DiodeGoneWild ElectroBOOM ( Mehdi Sadaghdar ) actually already measures up the starter motor current and voltage when he start his car ( video : ua-cam.com/video/tKki89sq0XY/v-deo.html ) I don’t know if the graph were the same across all cars ( since there’s a LOT of brands and models out there ) not to mention the video is 4 years old :-)
I like 'mAh' because it's easier to calculate how long will battery last. For example, my circuit consume about 500mA at a 5V so 5000mAh battery will last about 10 hours.
This is only correct if the 5000mAh is the output capacity. Most powerbanks list the battery capacity. You have to take into account that the battery has a nominal voltage of 3.7V and must be boosted to 5V which takes more current. The easiest way to get an estimate of how long the powerbank will last is to take the energy and divide by the current. eg. 5000mAh * 3.7V = 18.5 Wh. 18.5 Wh / 5v = 3.7Ah. (this is the output capacity ignoring boost efficiency) 3.7Ah / 0.5A = 7.4 hours
Amp hour (Ah) is the traditional method used for cells because then it makes it easier to work out how many cells are needed for your specific battery application. This is harder to do if using Watt hour (Wh). Most electronic loads draw approximately the same current over their normal operating voltage range. So you use Ah to determine the nominal run time. Unfortunately in the world of power banks, marketing like to use the highest number...
Big Clive did a test on these a few years back. The protective Schottky diodes in the cables seem to be the weak point (and probably for the better). I certainly wouldn't want to try and jump start my 5.7L V8 with a direct drive starter using one of these cheap ones. It would almost certainly blow all the diodes, and possibly nuke the batteries if they dont have protection.
Nice explanation I was confused for many years about this concept of mah but that’s true almost all electronics have a tag of 3 or what ever amount of cell x Ah and even add more fake ah and give you an exaggerated mah rating and will never tell you what’s the individual mah and amount of cells , yeah many electronics don’t have great and safe charging and balancing that’s what I had to learn as you did but with lipo cell jumó start and cell puff and made them work but they lots abit of internal individuals mah and one cell had greater internal resistance afterwards charger didn’t had the ability to fully charge the pack it’s always best to have a smart external charger for this type of battery chemisy
It will be lower voltage because its lithium iron phosphate. They like to use these because 3.4v per cell (fully charged for LiFe) is about 13.7v which is perfect to run a car. That's about what the alternator tries to do anyway. They're also a more stable chemistry overall, which helps safety-wise.
Thanks again for this one. Shame there doesnt seem to be active balancing circuit so performance of the battery is tied to how well cells are matched at the factory. At least protection circuit is present so you shouldn't be able trash the unit by over discharging a single cell.
I think it might help if you manually discharged the individual cells down to match the lowest cell's voltage -- so that they are all manually balanced prior to being recharged. See how well they stay balanced after that.
I would to a top balance to the cells. Charge each cell individually by directly connecting to it via the cables (unplugged from the board of course). That might improve performance.
Still better than power banks from China. They would have listed it as 12 V / 12 000 mAh. And from some sellers you would even get it in a 12 V / 99 000 mAh version.
I am sorry, but another suggestion: i found this dual use casings less than 9€ new, for 18650 and much bigger 26650 cells as well. They could make up for quite a difference, very likely for their internal resistance. And it says '6 kinds of protection'. Maybe this could be used for some comparison testing in some future as well? 'Features: NO Battery 2-in-1, 2 * 26650 Battery Charger + Smart Power Bank. or 2-in-1, 2 * 18650 Battery Charger + Smart Power Bank. Each slot with independent charging circuit. Fast and high-performance chip, provide 6 kinds of protection. LCD Display Screen is convenient to read the remaining capacity. Multiple uses, power bank/charger/storage box. 5V/2A, 5V/1A, dual output USB, two devices get charged simultaneously. When charging the device, it displays output voltage and output current; when charging the batteries, it displays input charging status. When input and output at the same time, it will automatically charge the device first, then charge the battery. Specifications: Brand: TOMO Color: Black / White (Optional) Material: Plastic Input: 5V-1A Output: 5V-1A, 5V-2A ... '
I haven't watched this video in full yet, but after your last video I decided to buy one of these for use mainly as a power bank in my car, and a jump starter should I need it. Your video made it look pretty good. However at 5V, charging my phone at 1000mA, it can't even charge my phone twice from fully charged!!! That is NOT 7000mAh capacity no matter what it says. To anyone out there thinking of buying one, don't waste your money!!!
@@Broken_Yugo Not even close to 2 charges if I'm honest before it needed to be disconnected and recharged. How long does a phone take to charge at an amp (1000mA charger plug) roughly?...maybe 1.5 hours ish? I just assumed at LEAST it should be able to manage 2 charges...roughly 3 hours at 1000mA. Considering it claims 7000mAh it should do 3? unless are these losses you mentioned seriously that high? I'm no expert by any means, I just assumed it'd be actually "useful" as a powerbank...which to me it isn't considering it takes literally overnight to recharge!!! I may as well drive home from miles away, plug my phone into my house socket and charge my bloody phone that way. Lol.
@@REVERSE_BIAS - 1000mAh = 1A. 3 hours at 1A = 3Ah. 3Ah = 3000mAh. So two charges would be 6Ah (6000mAh). When you take into account the voltage conversion losses and that the cell protection circuitry is being very conservative, it’s marginal if you will get two ‘full’ charges if your ‘phone requires 3Ah per charge. In reality, it’s best to charge a mobile ‘phone whenever you can. So overnight, yes, and while driving, again, yes. Power banks are best kept for emergency use, rather than regular use.
actually that would be finally something EU could be useful for that battery cells have to have a nominal mandatory Wh rating on them and as well stating +/- X% on them very clearly. and also I'd love the same for primary cells of course
@@dosgos of course it is, they standardise lots of things, this is one of the main reasons why the us more and more starts to look like a third world country :D
How is it possible that the battery discharges 500A? That's 167C, which is way above what batteries are usually max rated at for discharge rate. Wouldn't that make the battery explode?
They bottom balance the cells because the high current output can not be switched off based on individual cell voltages. The electronics in the high current wires can only determine the low voltage cutoff with the combined packs voltage. Bottom balancing the cells to the cutoff voltage is the workaround. As long as the cells stay bottom balanced no individual cell should be discharged too far based on pack voltage alone.
IIRC there isn't any protection on the high current output. The protection would need to be in the output cable itself but that also had a resistor which bypassed any protection.
@@eDoc2020 I think it is not clear if the mosfets in the output cable are also switched based on pack voltage. But it could explain the balancing. The resistor has 200 Ohms. So relatively low current.
Hello thanks for the great video as usuall. In the first explaination of the two different batteries energy don't you think that puting the two batteries in series with different voltage would end up charging the 3.7V one into the 1.2v other?
For your average Joe it kind of makes sense to use amp hours since it would just be something like 12@34Wh at a 12V source or 5V@28Wh as a power bank, which your average person would not intuitively understand. The average person who just knows the mAh rating being higher = more power will understand that rating more readily since it can be correlated to a power bank they might already have.
There is one auction '8 x Akku 18650 Powerbank' which shows the inside of the powerbank as well. It has 8 cells of course and some electronics with a display, see pictures, and no starting bid now at 15€. Maybe something more to analyse.
Is that only applicable to jump start or would it also allow to charge a car battery to some useable state with multiple cycles. 12v seems a bit low for that?
Merry Christmas to you and your cat 🐱 Nice video 👍 do you have the schematic of your home made battery capacity analyser? Is it possible to share the schematic and software? Thank you 🙏
@@DiodeGoneWild Thank you for the link,. I'm more used to play with C and arduino but I will try to build your capacity meter based on Atmel AVR. By the way, I would like to let you know that I really like your videos and the way you explain the projets/schematics in detail. Great job !!
The general public would have a much easier time if companies didn't try to "dumb things down" for them. Or to obscure technical details as they like to do by trademarking various technology to only present it as a name rather than the actual function.
ALL batteries are totally insensitive to imbalance, except when you put them in series. That's because if you only stop the discharge at a certain TOTAL voltage, it can happen that some cells (in the series string) go WAY under their minimum recommended voltage while others are still very well charged. Ni-CD and Ni-NH tool batteries were the worst, because there was never any low-voltage cutoff and some cells could even go negative... kills them dead as a doormat. For LiFePO4e, under-voltage literally kills them dead... they never recharge again. I've killed heaps of them by running them as a bare cell and letting the voltage drop too far. So, you need to either balance them, or monitor and cut them off when one cell hits the minimum.
@@PM-wt3ye - I suppose not, if you don't care how long they last. For low current charging (like small domestic solar lights), they seem to handle it OK... well, they don't blow up and catch fire however the cells don't last very long, maybe 300-400 charge cycles. However I've boiled and *instantly* killed plenty of LiFePO4 by accidentally charging them on LiPo or Li-Ion settings with 4.2V termination and 500mA or 1A charge current. And a quick death is silly when one of the great advantages of LiFePO4 is that when treated properly they last about 10 times longer (charge cycles) than Li-Ion cells.. So the fact that they die quickly rather than catch fire then die doesn't really mean that _"overcharging isnt that big of an issue"_ for LiFePO4.
Reverse charging (under voltage) and overcharging (known as gassing with some cell types) is a problem in all series connected cell (battery) systems. Including primary cells (“non-rechargeable”), lead acid, NiCad, NiMh and the various lithium types. Some types (NiCad, NiMh, vented lead acid) can tolerate overcharging at slow or trickle charge rates, but most other types cannot. Nearly all cells are liable to be damaged if they run out of charge before the other cells in a series connected bank (under voltage). Then the other cells will force current through the discharged cell and “reverse charge” it. As mentioned, this normally kills it. The problem gets much worse as the number of series connected cells is increased. As it is impossible for all the cells to be perfectly matched. It is for this reason that often for low to medium power applications, a DC-DC boost converter is preferred. But where a very high current is required (here to run a starter motor), it’s not practical to use a DC-DC converter.
I wonder why they only charge up to 3.59V and some cells ending at 3.34..V? Thats odd! This would mean only 30% SOC for a normal LiNiCoO Cell. When they were LiFePo-Cells that would make sense, because 3.6V means fully charged. But i doubt they are LiFePo as they are more expensive and less capacity.
Of course they are LiFePO4, they couldn't get that amount of discharge current from Lithium Ion and LiPo would be even more expensive. This is simple stuff, nothing off or confusing at all. The carton even states Lithium Iron Phosphate right across the front!
It is NOT a balance cable. It uses the wires to monitor cell voltages and switch off the entire thing when voltage of any one cell falls under the low voltage limit. It also terminates charge when one cell reaches the upper voltage limit. That's the way all consumer devices and tool batteries work. Balance charging is just an "RC thing" and it's not practical for most other rechargable devices. That's because the only way to do balance charging properly is to individually charge each cell, which is very slow, makes the charger and/or BMS much more complicated and expensive.
@@johncoops6897 Thats dumb though. If after a long time of usage the voltage of one cell just happens to be 0.5V lower than the other cells, then it will never fully discharge all the other cells and never fully charge that single cell, so you lose a lot of capacity even though the cells are still fine. You dont need to charge each cell individually and the cable you see in the video is absolutely enough to do the job. First youre charging the entire package in series until it cuts out and then you use the balancing cable to top up the remaining cells and as the difference should always be very small it would not take long at all.
Of course a balancer could be added. But the usual ones that transfer 50mA or 100mA or so are basically useless. On Banggood I've just found some inexpensive Active balancers that transfer 1.2A and even 1.5A between cells. The problem with that style is when charging and when discharging....the balancer doesn't kick in until 0.1V difference between adjacent cells. So if you said that a "totally full" LiFePO4 was to 3.6V, you can end a charge with 4 cells of 3.45, 3.55, 3.65 and 3.75V. The common resistive balancers also have the same problem... they will allow all kinds of horrid voltages, then (very) slowly even it out later. The only way to resolve it is to treat each cell individually, and then cut off each at the precise top voltage. The hassle is that makes the charger very complex. Even high-usage power tool batteries don't have balancing - they just have individual cell monitoring and cutoff if any one cell goes under or over spec.
mAh is a really stupid metric and doesn’t represent energy capacity. Watt-hour is also not great. The SI unit for energy is Joules. One Wh is 3600 Joules as there are 3600 seconds in an hour.
So can you please point me to a meter that measures electricity in Joules? Amp hour (Ah) is the traditional method used for cells because then it makes it easier to work out how many cells are needed for your specific battery application. This is harder to do if using Watt hour (Wh). Most electronic loads draw approximately the same current over their normal operating voltage range. So you can easily use Ah to determine the nominal run time. Wh can also be misleading/misused and if consumers find Ah and Wh confusing, I don’t think using Joules would help much. And yes, lots of marketing use mA instead of A, and mAh instead of Ah. In the same way that other metric units are misused. At the end of the day, the buyer has to do his/her own research to determine what they require and then use caution when buying a power bank,
@@Mark1024MAK America is the land of imperial units and many people are not understanding the simplicity of using modern metric units. 1 Joule is simply the energy of one Watt for one second. Ah is not saying anything concerning energy unless you also know the voltage and that voltage is constant. A Li-Ion battery is not with constant voltage. As a battery is used the voltage drops and most devices need a constant voltage to drive them. Any device with proper DC-DC converters will maintain the voltage rail on the electronics while increasing the battery current as the voltage drops. Wh is a proper energy unit (= 3600 Ws = 3600 Joules).
@@ThinkingBetter - Well, until very recently, DC-DC converters in electronic products were not very common. Electronic products / systems either ran directly from a cell or battery, or used a series pass regulator. With both of these using Wh is slightly misleading as these loads don’t significantly change their current consumption with a (reasonable) change in the input supply voltage. It’s mainly the introduction of power banks and mobile ‘phones that have driven the call for Wh. Before then, especially in industry, cell or battery capacity was nearly always specified in Ah. The small voltage change at the cell or battery terminal not being much of an issue because it was considered to be more or less constant over the normal range of the cell / battery. If you prefer to use Joules, that’s fine with me. Same with Wh, I have no problem with that. But I suspect that industry and battery manufacturers will continue to use Ah.
Merry Christmas, Diode!!
😂😂😂😂
It was his _name day_ a few days ago (as celebrated in the Czech Republic) and his birthday is around the end of January, I will determine the correct date soon.
@@vaclavtrpisovsky Jesus is born in the summer not in the winter.. But he didn't ever celebrate his birthday not his followers.. And winter in the desert? How about santa=satan.. Too much nonsense
*Danyk
Birthday: 11th of February
Thanks for another very informative video! The thing with the battery imbalance is a shame, especially coming from Lidl. Their products are normally of good quality...
Nice editing skills btw ;) at 3:29 I thought I was tripping when I saw that pen go under those numbers haha
I played with the editing a bit this time, but mostly I try not to waste time on editing.
@@DiodeGoneWild hey diode I have one pcb to donate u how can I donate,I wanna u to make a schematic and understand a circuitry
@@akhilesh7313 you can ask for his address using his contact info _danyk cz/kontakt html_ (url edited to deter spambots)
@@vaclavtrpisovsky thanks brother👍
Nice analysis like always. And many thanks for enabling auto-captions, even with google-trans errors it eases a lot for people like me, who don't have good ear for English language.
English isn't his first language, so it's not so easy for English speaking people to understand either. However his accent and funny comments are one of the main reasons that people come to this channel.
@@johncoops6897 - um, he’s easy to understand compared to some regional English, Welsh and Scottish accents 🤣
Video is very good. I bought a renhotecic power supply not long ago and tested it, and it feels that the effect is OK. It is recommended that friends in need can try to prepare a copy.
Totally agree with the video. What's interesting to me is that for batteries we use the term "charge" but we don't mean it in the electrostatic sense (joules per coulomb) we specify energy as Watt/hrs not joules per second. However it does make sense if you know the constant current and voltage your load draws.
Very good video as usual, Merry Christmas Diode Gone Wild.
Merry Christmas, DiodeGomeWild :) thanks for this review!
It probably didn't get the full capacity because it wasn't fully charging the cells to 3.6V/3.7V (3.7V max for LiFePO4). Better charging circuitry (including balance charging) would resolve this.
It also didn't discharge the cells fully either - and the same often happens with Li-Ion powerbanks (for mobile phones) as well. I saw a previous video that GreatScott did about a powerbank and he found that it was cutting the cells off at 3.2V instead of 2.5V - 3.0V. Doing this gives a slightly better cell lifespan, at the expense of battery capacity. So it's entirely possible that the PCB has a higher cut off e.g. when the first cell reaches 2.7V, rather than when all cells reach 2.0V - 2.5V (balance discharging would also help).
The only way to get the true capacity of the pack would be to hook it up to a balance charger/meter (such as Turnigy Accucel or SkyRC Imax) with all balance wires connected, then run a balance charge and a balance discharge. (Though having said that, 90% available capacity is still good for the vast majority of people.)
It will be interesting to see how this battery imbalances itself over time, as all Lithium Ion battery packs do - as usually one or two weak cells will limit the functionality of the entire pack (this is definitely what happens in laptop battery packs, anyway).
Agree about full discharge and charge to 100% (both according to particular battery chemistry, obviously) as single way how to determine true capacity. By the way would not hurt to have balance connector socket on case with a switch to make battery charging from any hobby charger possible in case when you must start your car with empty battery still in this day (things happen when no one with a working car is nearby, first person experience).
Very well explained, I just enjoy your videos and they are honest 🙂
Nice explanation, merry Christmas !
Merry Christmas DiodeGoneWild! Waiting for testing video with a car!
Still also waiting for a 12V 50A Ebay power supply review!
Are you the champion of the electronic, tank you very much for the quality video and one job with good moment. The best.
Merry Christmas diode, your videos help me lots
There is space in the case to include an active cell ballancer, that draws power from a cell to recharge another one, it would fit perfectly here...
The usefulness of that should be tested. You can see that the cells are much more balanced when nearly discharged. That may help preserving the capacity of the weaker batteries in the long run. A balancer might maximize the cranking power, but it'd have its drawbacks.
@@atdzsny That would depend on the bms... how is low voltage detected, individual cell, or total voltage? If it's using individual voltage, then as soon as one cell reaches low voltage, output is cut off, so no problem to over-discharge any of the cells, but if total voltage is used, then it's much better if cells are kept balanced all the time. Also, in soft discharges, cells would be balanced "on the go", since the system is independent. Only in high power discharges, cell imbalance could cause a problem, but discharge the pack directly all at once very fast is not recommended... As you said, it should be tested.
@@DanielLopez-kt1xt That's OK, but I think the main selling point is jumpstarting here, and it seems there's no individual cell protection on that output.
No point in top balancing since the only way it could use the charge from one cell to "top up" the charge of another cell is if the higher cell is over-charged above normal specs. So overcharging is overcharging.
@@johncoops6897 the use of an active balancer would be precisely to take all cells to 4.2v without over-charging cells, and use them all the closer ton fully charged possible. Drawing too much power from a discharged battery is bad, so by keeping them all balanced at top charge would prevent that... no overcharge, no overdischarge...
it would probably charge the battery to 14,4V. But most BMS dont have any balance resistors. The charge is simply terminated if one cell reaches 3,6V (your 3,57V cell).
Can you do a video on how you made your battery tester? Thanks.
Merry Christmas DGW. Have a great day!
Merry Christmas and a Happy new Year to you and yours take care stay safe :-)
Merry christmas Diode!!!!
Merry Christmas 🎄
Love your videos man... Cheers from Brazil
Hi, I also distributed this powerbank and tested it briefly. I was curious how it is with the balancing of the article and I have to say according to the first knowledge that I charge it really well and it's not as bad as it looks. I also had differences in the tension of individual cells after charging. I didn't measure it immediately after charging, but only after a while after the values stabilized, and I also had differences in tension. Lowest - 3.43V max.- 3.57V. I wanted to test all cells, especially how much capacity they can fit in them after charging with the supplied adapter, so I started to charge each cell separately and I found out that even though the voltage difference was 0.14V without load, I am the weakest cell with a voltage of 3.43V charged only 10mAh digital charger and was charged at a voltage of 3.6V and a short time when the charging current decreases terminated. The difference of 10mAh comes to me Ok. After charging each cell, I measured the voltage of all cells separately and they already had the same voltage. When discharging via the USB port, I measured the voltage of all cells and it was the same. I will discharge the power bank and try to recharge it to full capacity via the supplied USB adapter, and after charging I will try to recharge the additional individual cells separately until the end of charging and compare the differences. If the result is the same, then there is nothing Bat. It is a possible characteristic of these batteries that even 10 mAh in capacity can cause a drop in cell voltage of up to 0.2V. During the load, the tension equalizes. Give it a try and let it know.
DiodeGoneWild, Good video. I wish you a good new year.
In your original video the battery was not fully charged and at 3,3V. Because the lifepo4 charge und discharge curve is so flat, it is only possible to get an accurate SOC at the very high and low ends of the voltagerange. The pack was bottom balanced.
Good explanation. 👍👍 for the cat in the box.
Very informative, plus cat always good :) Veselé Vánoce!
Merry Christmas!!
That diode :Merry Christmas but I can't burn...!
3:30 Magic pen :)
i love magic. whats your opinion on my ban of german shepherd ownership in hungary
Keep up the good work. Have a great Christmas weekend
Look forward for next video about dodgy chargers!! Merry Christmas
Thank you very much for your time and good explanation sir !
I like this guy.
El mejor video de mi Internet sobre este producto, no ha sido fácil encontrarlo .
Como abres la tapa roja para ver la batería?
Helpful video
Waiting for your line of DGW meters & test equipment to hit crowd-funding . I will not settle for less
I think they give the Ah because you normally have only same voltage for a given application and it also helps with early load current formular like 2*C
You say confusing, I say intentionally misleading. The same comment applies to storage device capacities.
Storage devices are actually OK as far as I can see. Any inconsistencies are down to operating systems displaying the units incorrectly.
For example: Mac OS shows capacity in GB (decimal units, multiples of 1000); Linux shows the capacity as GiB (binary units, multiples of 1024); however Windows misleadingly reports the capacty in "GB" (whilst actually using GiB for calculation).
The same goes for other units: 1kB = 1000B; 1MB = 1000kB; 1GB = 1000MB; 1TB = 1000GB
However: 1kiB = 1024B; 1MiB = 1024kiB; 1GiB = 1024MiB; 1TiB = 1024GiB
(Also note from above, the difference between binary and decimal units increases with larger units.)
Hence why your 2TB hard drive actually only shows up (under Windows, at least) as "1.81 TB", because they're using the decimal notation with binary calculations!
@@TheSpotify95 thank you I didn't know this. Also Merry Christmas
@@TheSpotify95 Same issue with RAM. It's displayed as 16GB even though it's 16GiB, 16384 KiB.
It's because the international airlines want clearly shown the total capacity of the BATTERY CELLS, not the capacity of the output circuits. A powerbank with 5 x 2000mAh Lithium 18650's inside is labelled as 10,000mAh. It might output 5V or even 9V or 12V if QC or PD stepup converter is inside, however the CELLS are what matters for the transport industry.
@@willjohnsonjohnson ironically RAM manufacturers state their RAM sizes using the binary system as you state, yet the manufacturers (and Windows) shows it as GB, not GiB. However, Ubuntu Linux does show RAM size as GiB, which is correct.
That battery pack is probably a 3S configuration. If you note, on the balance connector there are 2 red and 2 ground wires coming out in parallel designed to handle the power the usb ports and board through a boost converter. I have tore apart many of these starters. This is not the standard Balance jst-xh plug but are usually a smaller pitch. They are internally wired differently for this purpose. If you probe the pack from the side, you will probably feel the 3 cells through the shrink wrap. I might be wrong because I never opened a Lidl starter. (EDIT: You're right! I missed the first video It's LiFePO4...3.2 X 4 = 12.8V)
Quite a weird one. Perhaps they're doing it this way because 14.4V isn't necessary? Typically the bms cuts off when one cell drops below a threshold while discharging, but here it seems it cuts off when one cell reaches a threshold while charging. Hopefully it's a design feature and not just a horribly designed battery pack.
Cost of production would affect how they design. It should have balance charging design for safety
@@jumpspower-heavydutyminipo6350 it does make sense to ommit it when it's not needed, as it massively reduces the complexity and cost. The only tradeoff is that it would have a bit more jumpstart oomph if it did charge all the cells fully.
@@lakiza55 From our experience, if the cell are not balance and you are drawing high current, the cell will easy to Swell..
I would be interested to see you measure what it is doing when use it to start a car.
I may connect my small oscilloscope parallel to the battery to see what happens during the starting.
@@DiodeGoneWild And the clamp meter to see what current?
@@DiodeGoneWild ElectroBOOM ( Mehdi Sadaghdar ) actually already measures up the starter motor current and voltage when he start his car ( video : ua-cam.com/video/tKki89sq0XY/v-deo.html ) I don’t know if the graph were the same across all cars ( since there’s a LOT of brands and models out there ) not to mention the video is 4 years old :-)
@@atalakeanumonarshi129 But he only measured it by starting a small petrol engnine. This doesnt say much about the capability of the jumper pack
I like 'mAh' because it's easier to calculate how long will battery last. For example, my circuit consume about 500mA at a 5V so 5000mAh battery will last about 10 hours.
This is only correct if the 5000mAh is the output capacity. Most powerbanks list the battery capacity. You have to take into account that the battery has a nominal voltage of 3.7V and must be boosted to 5V which takes more current. The easiest way to get an estimate of how long the powerbank will last is to take the energy and divide by the current. eg. 5000mAh * 3.7V = 18.5 Wh.
18.5 Wh / 5v = 3.7Ah. (this is the output capacity ignoring boost efficiency)
3.7Ah / 0.5A = 7.4 hours
@@scottlaflair4995 I see. Thank you!
Amp hour (Ah) is the traditional method used for cells because then it makes it easier to work out how many cells are needed for your specific battery application. This is harder to do if using Watt hour (Wh). Most electronic loads draw approximately the same current over their normal operating voltage range. So you use Ah to determine the nominal run time.
Unfortunately in the world of power banks, marketing like to use the highest number...
My concern is that I'd want to know that the 12v output leads are able to survive the output current demand.
Big Clive did a test on these a few years back. The protective Schottky diodes in the cables seem to be the weak point (and probably for the better). I certainly wouldn't want to try and jump start my 5.7L V8 with a direct drive starter using one of these cheap ones. It would almost certainly blow all the diodes, and possibly nuke the batteries if they dont have protection.
great info, thanks...merry christmas
I love your videos! Greetings from Poland! I go to electronic school
Veselé Vánoce!
Now that you made 2 videos about this device....
When will you finally start a car with it? :)
Nice explanation I was confused for many years about this concept of mah but that’s true almost all electronics have a tag of 3 or what ever amount of cell x Ah and even add more fake ah and give you an exaggerated mah rating and will never tell you what’s the individual mah and amount of cells , yeah many electronics don’t have great and safe charging and balancing that’s what I had to learn as you did but with lipo cell jumó start and cell puff and made them work but they lots abit of internal individuals mah and one cell had greater internal resistance afterwards charger didn’t had the ability to fully charge the pack it’s always best to have a smart external charger for this type of battery chemisy
It will be lower voltage because its lithium iron phosphate. They like to use these because 3.4v per cell (fully charged for LiFe) is about 13.7v which is perfect to run a car. That's about what the alternator tries to do anyway. They're also a more stable chemistry overall, which helps safety-wise.
Thanks again for this one. Shame there doesnt seem to be active balancing circuit so performance of the battery is tied to how well cells are matched at the factory. At least protection circuit is present so you shouldn't be able trash the unit by over discharging a single cell.
Merry Christmas
I think it might help if you manually discharged the individual cells down to match the lowest cell's voltage -- so that they are all manually balanced prior to being recharged. See how well they stay balanced after that.
I would to a top balance to the cells. Charge each cell individually by directly connecting to it via the cables (unplugged from the board of course). That might improve performance.
Still better than power banks from China. They would have listed it as 12 V / 12 000 mAh. And from some sellers you would even get it in a 12 V / 99 000 mAh version.
Should have wired up some crazy super dodgeee Christmas lights contraption. :D
Wow, It's Very Wonderful!
Really good
I am sorry, but another suggestion: i found this dual use casings less than 9€ new, for 18650 and much bigger 26650 cells as well. They could make up for quite a difference, very likely for their internal resistance. And it says '6 kinds of protection'. Maybe this could be used for some comparison testing in some future as well?
'Features:
NO Battery
2-in-1, 2 * 26650 Battery Charger + Smart Power Bank.
or 2-in-1, 2 * 18650 Battery Charger + Smart Power Bank.
Each slot with independent charging circuit.
Fast and high-performance chip, provide 6 kinds of protection.
LCD Display Screen is convenient to read the remaining capacity.
Multiple uses, power bank/charger/storage box.
5V/2A, 5V/1A, dual output USB, two devices get charged simultaneously.
When charging the device, it displays output voltage and output current; when charging the batteries, it displays input charging status.
When input and output at the same time, it will automatically charge the device first, then charge the battery.
Specifications:
Brand: TOMO
Color: Black / White (Optional)
Material: Plastic
Input: 5V-1A
Output: 5V-1A, 5V-2A
... '
So instead of a “Cat in the hat.” you have a “Cat in the box.”
Thanks for the well informed vid.
Merry xmas.
Maybe it is some preparation for schrodinger´s cat experiment.
MERRY CHRISTMAS from ARKANSAS, US
I haven't watched this video in full yet, but after your last video I decided to buy one of these for use mainly as a power bank in my car, and a jump starter should I need it. Your video made it look pretty good. However at 5V, charging my phone at 1000mA, it can't even charge my phone twice from fully charged!!! That is NOT 7000mAh capacity no matter what it says. To anyone out there thinking of buying one, don't waste your money!!!
How close to two charges? You have to account for losses in the DC-DC converter in the bank and charge circuit in the phone, because they don't.
@@Broken_Yugo Not even close to 2 charges if I'm honest before it needed to be disconnected and recharged. How long does a phone take to charge at an amp (1000mA charger plug) roughly?...maybe 1.5 hours ish? I just assumed at LEAST it should be able to manage 2 charges...roughly 3 hours at 1000mA. Considering it claims 7000mAh it should do 3? unless are these losses you mentioned seriously that high? I'm no expert by any means, I just assumed it'd be actually "useful" as a powerbank...which to me it isn't considering it takes literally overnight to recharge!!! I may as well drive home from miles away, plug my phone into my house socket and charge my bloody phone that way. Lol.
@@REVERSE_BIAS - 1000mAh = 1A. 3 hours at 1A = 3Ah. 3Ah = 3000mAh. So two charges would be 6Ah (6000mAh). When you take into account the voltage conversion losses and that the cell protection circuitry is being very conservative, it’s marginal if you will get two ‘full’ charges if your ‘phone requires 3Ah per charge.
In reality, it’s best to charge a mobile ‘phone whenever you can. So overnight, yes, and while driving, again, yes. Power banks are best kept for emergency use, rather than regular use.
actually that would be finally something EU could be useful for that battery cells have to have a nominal mandatory Wh rating on them and as well stating +/- X% on them very clearly.
and also I'd love the same for primary cells of course
That is not the purpose of the EU
Measured at what discharge rate? 0.0001C?
Oh wait, then the self-discharge would kick in...
@@dosgos of course it is, they standardise lots of things, this is one of the main reasons why the us more and more starts to look like a third world country :D
How is it possible that the battery discharges 500A? That's 167C, which is way above what batteries are usually max rated at for discharge rate. Wouldn't that make the battery explode?
Professional!
They bottom balance the cells because the high current output can not be switched off based on individual cell voltages. The electronics in the high current wires can only determine the low voltage cutoff with the combined packs voltage. Bottom balancing the cells to the cutoff voltage is the workaround. As long as the cells stay bottom balanced no individual cell should be discharged too far based on pack voltage alone.
IIRC there isn't any protection on the high current output. The protection would need to be in the output cable itself but that also had a resistor which bypassed any protection.
@@eDoc2020 I think it is not clear if the mosfets in the output cable are also switched based on pack voltage. But it could explain the balancing. The resistor has 200 Ohms. So relatively low current.
Energyyyyyy capacityyyyyyy powerssss
NOBODY can say "So today" faster than him
What sort of Easter egg did you put in at 4:32 - 4:33? 😀
Hello thanks for the great video as usuall. In the first explaination of the two different batteries energy don't you think that puting the two batteries in series with different voltage would end up charging the 3.7V one into the 1.2v other?
For your average Joe it kind of makes sense to use amp hours since it would just be something like 12@34Wh at a 12V source or 5V@28Wh as a power bank, which your average person would not intuitively understand. The average person who just knows the mAh rating being higher = more power will understand that rating more readily since it can be correlated to a power bank they might already have.
He has a disclaimer at the begining of each video that it's not intended for average Joe.
@@letenof No but the jumper pack is, which is why its ratings are in mAh and not Wh.
There is one auction '8 x Akku 18650 Powerbank' which shows the inside of the powerbank as well. It has 8 cells of course and some electronics with a display, see pictures, and no starting bid now at 15€. Maybe something more to analyse.
At German eBay
Is that only applicable to jump start or would it also allow to charge a car battery to some useable state with multiple cycles. 12v seems a bit low for that?
Soo did it start your car without the need of the car battery or it got on fire ??????!!!
It would have been nice if they maybe had 1 row of batteries for the starter and maybe another row for the other things perhaps?
Can you not test the car starter circuit, by using a larger clamp style amp meter with peak hold?
You know what... I'm gonna say it... RECTIFIER GONE WILD.
Oh man he sounds just like Dracula!!! Sir, from where do you hale? Please say Transylvania!
Always remember,there is no fuse in chinese electronics because the device is the fuse.
Taky jsem si to pořídil z Lidlu, že to bude sloužit jako power banka a v zimě jako nouzová záloha v autě. No můj kus měl ani ne 2500 mAh.
Akým jazykom rozprávaš, bratm?
Merry Christmas to you and your cat 🐱
Nice video 👍 do you have the schematic of your home made battery capacity analyser? Is it possible to share the schematic and software?
Thank you 🙏
Thanks, Merry Christmas to you to ;) The schematic and software is on my website:
danyk.cz/avr_aku_en.html
@@DiodeGoneWild Thank you for the link,. I'm more used to play with C and arduino but I will try to build your capacity meter based on Atmel AVR. By the way, I would like to let you know that I really like your videos and the way you explain the projets/schematics in detail. Great job !!
great video. where are you from Mr Diode?
He's from the Czech Republic
@@tonywalton1464 ♥
its me mario
The general public would have a much easier time if companies didn't try to "dumb things down" for them. Or to obscure technical details as they like to do by trademarking various technology to only present it as a name rather than the actual function.
Those liFePo4 cells arent THAT much sensitive for disbalance, or are they? Maybe thats why they are not balanced very well?
ALL batteries are totally insensitive to imbalance, except when you put them in series. That's because if you only stop the discharge at a certain TOTAL voltage, it can happen that some cells (in the series string) go WAY under their minimum recommended voltage while others are still very well charged. Ni-CD and Ni-NH tool batteries were the worst, because there was never any low-voltage cutoff and some cells could even go negative... kills them dead as a doormat.
For LiFePO4e, under-voltage literally kills them dead... they never recharge again. I've killed heaps of them by running them as a bare cell and letting the voltage drop too far. So, you need to either balance them, or monitor and cut them off when one cell hits the minimum.
@@johncoops6897 But overcharging isnt that big of an issue for Lifepo?
@@PM-wt3ye - I suppose not, if you don't care how long they last. For low current charging (like small domestic solar lights), they seem to handle it OK... well, they don't blow up and catch fire however the cells don't last very long, maybe 300-400 charge cycles. However I've boiled and *instantly* killed plenty of LiFePO4 by accidentally charging them on LiPo or Li-Ion settings with 4.2V termination and 500mA or 1A charge current.
And a quick death is silly when one of the great advantages of LiFePO4 is that when treated properly they last about 10 times longer (charge cycles) than Li-Ion cells..
So the fact that they die quickly rather than catch fire then die doesn't really mean that _"overcharging isnt that big of an issue"_ for LiFePO4.
Reverse charging (under voltage) and overcharging (known as gassing with some cell types) is a problem in all series connected cell (battery) systems. Including primary cells (“non-rechargeable”), lead acid, NiCad, NiMh and the various lithium types.
Some types (NiCad, NiMh, vented lead acid) can tolerate overcharging at slow or trickle charge rates, but most other types cannot. Nearly all cells are liable to be damaged if they run out of charge before the other cells in a series connected bank (under voltage). Then the other cells will force current through the discharged cell and “reverse charge” it. As mentioned, this normally kills it.
The problem gets much worse as the number of series connected cells is increased. As it is impossible for all the cells to be perfectly matched.
It is for this reason that often for low to medium power applications, a DC-DC boost converter is preferred. But where a very high current is required (here to run a starter motor), it’s not practical to use a DC-DC converter.
I need a bunch of these.! or make some..
Čau Dane, psal jsem ti na email ohledně nějakých kondenzátorů do starého Tesla testeru vákua co sháním, jinak veselý Vánoce a pohodový svátky!
io non capisco l'inglese, in poche parole conviene comprarlo oppure no?
I wonder why they only charge up to 3.59V and some cells ending at 3.34..V? Thats odd! This would mean only 30% SOC for a normal LiNiCoO Cell. When they were LiFePo-Cells that would make sense, because 3.6V means fully charged. But i doubt they are LiFePo as they are more expensive and less capacity.
Of course they are LiFePO4, they couldn't get that amount of discharge current from Lithium Ion and LiPo would be even more expensive. This is simple stuff, nothing off or confusing at all. The carton even states Lithium Iron Phosphate right across the front!
That lack of balancing is really weird. It does have a balancing cable but it doesnt seem to make use of it.
It is NOT a balance cable. It uses the wires to monitor cell voltages and switch off the entire thing when voltage of any one cell falls under the low voltage limit. It also terminates charge when one cell reaches the upper voltage limit.
That's the way all consumer devices and tool batteries work. Balance charging is just an "RC thing" and it's not practical for most other rechargable devices. That's because the only way to do balance charging properly is to individually charge each cell, which is very slow, makes the charger and/or BMS much more complicated and expensive.
@@johncoops6897 Thats dumb though. If after a long time of usage the voltage of one cell just happens to be 0.5V lower than the other cells, then it will never fully discharge all the other cells and never fully charge that single cell, so you lose a lot of capacity even though the cells are still fine. You dont need to charge each cell individually and the cable you see in the video is absolutely enough to do the job. First youre charging the entire package in series until it cuts out and then you use the balancing cable to top up the remaining cells and as the difference should always be very small it would not take long at all.
What's the model of the clamp meter. Is it available on amazon ?
He featured it in its own video, search his past videos...
Would be interesting to see if it could be hacked to give it proper cell balancing rather than the "one's finished, I'm done!" setup it has...
Of course a balancer could be added. But the usual ones that transfer 50mA or 100mA or so are basically useless. On Banggood I've just found some inexpensive Active balancers that transfer 1.2A and even 1.5A between cells.
The problem with that style is when charging and when discharging....the balancer doesn't kick in until 0.1V difference between adjacent cells. So if you said that a "totally full" LiFePO4 was to 3.6V, you can end a charge with 4 cells of 3.45, 3.55, 3.65 and 3.75V.
The common resistive balancers also have the same problem... they will allow all kinds of horrid voltages, then (very) slowly even it out later. The only way to resolve it is to treat each cell individually, and then cut off each at the precise top voltage. The hassle is that makes the charger very complex. Even high-usage power tool batteries don't have balancing - they just have individual cell monitoring and cutoff if any one cell goes under or over spec.
But way ar yyou taalking like diiss?
Something is wrong on your tests, the lithium cell full charge is 4.2V not 3. Something
It's a different chemistry of battery....
Nothing is wrong, nothing at all. This is simply not using 4.2V cells DOH
12:52 V = U Digital meter?
9:00 Battery BMS work?
Diky, long tíme no see.
mAh is a really stupid metric and doesn’t represent energy capacity. Watt-hour is also not great. The SI unit for energy is Joules. One Wh is 3600 Joules as there are 3600 seconds in an hour.
So can you please point me to a meter that measures electricity in Joules?
Amp hour (Ah) is the traditional method used for cells because then it makes it easier to work out how many cells are needed for your specific battery application. This is harder to do if using Watt hour (Wh). Most electronic loads draw approximately the same current over their normal operating voltage range. So you can easily use Ah to determine the nominal run time.
Wh can also be misleading/misused and if consumers find Ah and Wh confusing, I don’t think using Joules would help much.
And yes, lots of marketing use mA instead of A, and mAh instead of Ah. In the same way that other metric units are misused.
At the end of the day, the buyer has to do his/her own research to determine what they require and then use caution when buying a power bank,
@@Mark1024MAK America is the land of imperial units and many people are not understanding the simplicity of using modern metric units. 1 Joule is simply the energy of one Watt for one second. Ah is not saying anything concerning energy unless you also know the voltage and that voltage is constant. A Li-Ion battery is not with constant voltage. As a battery is used the voltage drops and most devices need a constant voltage to drive them. Any device with proper DC-DC converters will maintain the voltage rail on the electronics while increasing the battery current as the voltage drops. Wh is a proper energy unit (= 3600 Ws = 3600 Joules).
@@ThinkingBetter - Well, until very recently, DC-DC converters in electronic products were not very common. Electronic products / systems either ran directly from a cell or battery, or used a series pass regulator. With both of these using Wh is slightly misleading as these loads don’t significantly change their current consumption with a (reasonable) change in the input supply voltage.
It’s mainly the introduction of power banks and mobile ‘phones that have driven the call for Wh. Before then, especially in industry, cell or battery capacity was nearly always specified in Ah. The small voltage change at the cell or battery terminal not being much of an issue because it was considered to be more or less constant over the normal range of the cell / battery.
If you prefer to use Joules, that’s fine with me. Same with Wh, I have no problem with that. But I suspect that industry and battery manufacturers will continue to use Ah.
Mario, what have u done!???
Legend says that bored 5 yo engineers we're writing these 🤣
9:00 1337 😎