Excellent and comprehensive explanation as always. You're the best teacher I've ever seen. If you explain anything, the crash test dummy will understand it, and so will my cat. Bravo!
As a lighting engineer, I am amazed at how well this was explained. Many people will miss the fine details like the spluttering of the electrodes, etc. Excellent explanation of these now archaic devices.
The word "black" is important. These tubes are actually "dark suckers", and the electronics is used to start and run the sucking operation. You can see the darkened end of the spiral tube where the lamp has sucked up too much darkness and the filament has failed. If you look carefully, you will see that fluorescent tubes always start off pure white, but after many years of sucking darkness they become blackened. Sometimes you will find one that kept running long enough to get completely full of darkness, but usually the support electronics fail before they get 100% full.
After early 2000s, there where many CFLs discarded all around here in Brazil. I kept as many as I could, disassembled and kept the little circuit boards inside. These had good inductors, which could be rewound to make large bandwidth transformers for radio, and the 22uFx250V electrolytic could serve as a replacement filter in an old AA5 tube radio. :)
I learn so much from your videos. You give great explanations and lots of detail, but in a way thats easy to understand. Thanks for the quality content!
Fun Fact: CFLs generally have two inductor cores (a cylindrical one and a toroidial one) which can be re-wound to use in a simple "Joule Thief" circuit. In fact, there is plenty of wire on the cylindrical inductor for you to re-wind both of them with lots of wire left over. You know those cheap LED strings which use 2x 1.5V AA cells? I've re-wired a few of those and packed the Joule Thief circuit into the space taken by one AA cell so the whole string runs off of the remaining AA cell. You get around the same life, but for half the cost.
Thanks Mr. DGW for this long awaited video about CFLs. As always including schematic and details of operation to your videos makes them invaluable. A small remark: I think the component in 22:07 is a diac not a diode.
Ah, this video brings back memories. A few years ago I was obsessed with these lamps and especially with these driver circuits. I would always tear them out of the CFL and use them to power normal linear tubes in my homemade fluorescent lamp fixtures. During that time I noticed how crappy these circuits actually are. One time out of curiosity I powered a dead tube (good heaters, but wouldn't start in a traditional setup with glow starters) with one of these circuits. It was working normally and then suddenly it went out and shortly after the transistors blew up. It really made me realize that these circuits were designed to work until the tube is good, and then they are free to break (makes sense since the tube is irreplaceable). Since then I was wondering how I could modify the design in order to prevent them breaking when the tube reaches EOL. What do you think? Would it be possible to make this design more reliable and reusable? I would love to hear your thoughts. Cheers! - David
I believe standalone electronic ballasts have nearly the exact same circuit. I think the main difference is the size of the transistors. My standalone ballast has TO-126 transistors while the small CFLs have much smaller TO-92 transistors. Here in 120v-land it seems like the CFLs more than 13 or 14 watts tend to also have these larger transistors. TLDR: putting in beefier transistors (or maybe just adding heatsinks) probably will extend their life in unexpected situations.
Osram 21W CFL electronics have outlasted original bulb and one 13W T5 tube, second one is going strong. I kept it away of tube heat and so it probably outlasts second tube aswell.
"There is the smoothing capacitor (an electronic one), the interference inductor, MY CAT, the interference capacitor here..." Is your cat a part of the circuitry? How can it fit into the tiny CFL box?
Excellent explanation. You are great at explaining all the details of the circuit and how it operates. Would you consider explaining the circuit of a crt tv? Things like the horizontal and vertical circuits and how they work in conjunction with the flyback transformer. Or just the workings of the whole circuit.
I used this circuit (20W ikea lamp, but in terms of layout it seems to match) to power an 18W SOX-E LPS lamp by shorting the 2 ends and hooking it up to the LPS. When I used a 35W SOX it went pop on the fusible resistor and the 2 small resistors in line with the transistors. Maybe I also did not short the 2 ends on that attempt. Any idea what could have caused this? Replacing the resistors did not fix the circuit, it went pop again (on the 18W on which it did ran before).
8:31 better don't do it, I also thougth the same, but after shorting it, the lamp worked for a few seconds and exploded. Btw. when the heater blows up, sometimes the oscillator still runs, producing too high voltage and blowing itself. That's why those circuts should have some protection against it, but of course they don't, because of cost-cutting process. I have even seen a ballast for those normal straight tubes without this protection, exploding if the tube accidentally disconnects during operation. That's horrible
4 роки тому+1
Nice video. What he says about the resistor in 13:40 please?
17:00 this actually is not a classic forward switcher, but an LC resonant switcher. The capacitor is not a middle point but part of the LC resonance and periodically charged and discharged over the half bridge (hence the 160V on average).
I can not understand how the half Bridge work, I mean how can it make the square wave and the switching sequence of the transistores by colored lines like in SMPS videos?
That would be awesome if you could elaborate on how circuits could be manipulated by changing values of components, in order to achieve different output.
I used 10ohm and repaired 3 lamps: first one lasted 1 month, second blow up after 5 minutes and last one didn't last 1 minute. So if tube is worn out it is always temporary repair.
@Rocky Robinson Where I live entire CFLs with ballast were cheaper than bare tubes due to energy efficiency incentive programs so replacing the tube would almost never make sense. Although I did have one unit which failed right away in the startup circuit. I took the good tube from that and paired it with the ballast from one with a burnt out tube.
Great video as always Dany, one observation, If the heaters/filaments are in series it may have been better to bypass the open one with a resistor so the good one doesn't see twice the normal voltage/current 🤔 its very similar to the " electronic transformer " circuit
Nice video. I love the video, unfortunately you didn't really specify how the current moves inside the tube. I was thinking during start up (transistor below turns on from the diac) then the current moves from the positive terminal through the tube and then move from the inductor to the floating point moves through the transistor below back to the negative terminal. Then my question is how would the current move when the upper transistor turns on ?
It's definitely possible, but it may not be practical. In most cases it's better to use a power supply with a feedback. The CFL inverter maybe could be used as an electronic halogen transformer.
I open mine broken osram cfl and reuse bulb part, on mine electronic failed. Reuse bulb part and make it preheat, put some magnetic ballast and old neon starter. still works fine in my homemade lamp.
Nice teardown :) I don't like CFLs though to be honest, because LEDs are way better in terms of lifespan, switching on/off cycles, and energy efficiency. Incandescent and halogen bulbs (whilst you can still get them on eBay) are also nice for use with dimmer switches, or for a traditional light (or in cupboards/areas where rapid switching of the bulbs means that CFLs and LEDs make no sense).
I wonder if the old tube repair would last longer if you put an 8Ohm resistor in place instead of shorting the old heater. It may make the other heater last longer.
No. But if you know how these circuits are usually built, or you have schematic of similar device and you try do it often you can learn it. It help make photos of each side.
i think the uv, visible light and heat from the tube broke down the plastic and made it offgas/turn brown. These things would have been more reliable with better thermal management
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Excellent and comprehensive explanation as always. You're the best teacher I've ever seen. If you explain anything, the crash test dummy will understand it, and so will my cat. Bravo!
As a lighting engineer, I am amazed at how well this was explained. Many people will miss the fine details like the spluttering of the electrodes, etc. Excellent explanation of these now archaic devices.
This guy is the most didactic to teach that I have seen on UA-cam Genius!
Its just amazing how much new stuff I learn from just one of your videos about a pair of old and broken CFL bulbs.
Thanks for revealing the black magic behind the schematic
The word "black" is important. These tubes are actually "dark suckers", and the electronics is used to start and run the sucking operation. You can see the darkened end of the spiral tube where the lamp has sucked up too much darkness and the filament has failed. If you look carefully, you will see that fluorescent tubes always start off pure white, but after many years of sucking darkness they become blackened. Sometimes you will find one that kept running long enough to get completely full of darkness, but usually the support electronics fail before they get 100% full.
@@johncoops6897 fax no printer
After early 2000s, there where many CFLs discarded all around here in Brazil. I kept as many as I could, disassembled and kept the little circuit boards inside. These had good inductors, which could be rewound to make large bandwidth transformers for radio, and the 22uFx250V electrolytic could serve as a replacement filter in an old AA5 tube radio. :)
Cat: reviews schematic for accuracy.
Diodegonewild: pets cat.
The force is well balanced here.
There are also dog autotransformer controller at 10:45.
2:01 The safest method to test a CFL !
Excellent explanation of functions of all components. Best I've seen. Thank you.
I always learn something new from you. Sniffing the inductors with a single turn is just too good. I will remember that.
11:05 "dog location" to the "cat location"😂, I like it!
when did he get a dog :O
@@rkan2 He had a dog already, the dog was featured in some of the previous videos as well.
Your cat is an extrovert and your dog is an introvert XD
Love both ❤️
Cat simply love sitting on schematics. Feel better than litter box content. And table light is warm and cozy.
Nice detailed breakdown of how they work.
Missed you a lot, Danyk. Thank you for another video!
I learn so much from your videos. You give great explanations and lots of detail, but in a way thats easy to understand. Thanks for the quality content!
Quite clever location of the electrolytic cap, in the base as far from the hot lamp as possible
Fun Fact: CFLs generally have two inductor cores (a cylindrical one and a toroidial one) which can be re-wound to use in a simple "Joule Thief" circuit. In fact, there is plenty of wire on the cylindrical inductor for you to re-wind both of them with lots of wire left over.
You know those cheap LED strings which use 2x 1.5V AA cells? I've re-wired a few of those and packed the Joule Thief circuit into the space taken by one AA cell so the whole string runs off of the remaining AA cell. You get around the same life, but for half the cost.
I would have never understood this circuit in my life without this video.
The dog looks worried. " Master is playing with electricity again. Hope he fills my feed dish first in case something goes wrong!"
Dogs are more sensitive to EMF.
Thanks Mr. DGW for this long awaited video about CFLs.
As always including schematic and details of operation to your videos makes them invaluable.
A small remark: I think the component in 22:07 is a diac not a diode.
Sorry, I was mistakenly heard it as "diode" but repeating that part clarify that you said "diac".
Testing cfl with two screwdrivers off the live socket? :) are you trying to beat electroboom guy? ;)
Electroboom would have "accidentally" crossed the screwdrivers resulting in a huge shower of sparks.
Diodegonewild is best video channel. Thank yous so much , i learn more infromation from this channel
They look remarkably similar to a couple in my kitchen, you've saved me the job of doing my own autopsy on them
Ah, this video brings back memories.
A few years ago I was obsessed with these lamps and especially with these driver circuits. I would always tear them out of the CFL and use them to power normal linear tubes in my homemade fluorescent lamp fixtures. During that time I noticed how crappy these circuits actually are. One time out of curiosity I powered a dead tube (good heaters, but wouldn't start in a traditional setup with glow starters) with one of these circuits. It was working normally and then suddenly it went out and shortly after the transistors blew up.
It really made me realize that these circuits were designed to work until the tube is good, and then they are free to break (makes sense since the tube is irreplaceable). Since then I was wondering how I could modify the design in order to prevent them breaking when the tube reaches EOL.
What do you think? Would it be possible to make this design more reliable and reusable? I would love to hear your thoughts.
Cheers!
- David
I believe standalone electronic ballasts have nearly the exact same circuit. I think the main difference is the size of the transistors. My standalone ballast has TO-126 transistors while the small CFLs have much smaller TO-92 transistors. Here in 120v-land it seems like the CFLs more than 13 or 14 watts tend to also have these larger transistors.
TLDR: putting in beefier transistors (or maybe just adding heatsinks) probably will extend their life in unexpected situations.
Osram 21W CFL electronics have outlasted original bulb and one 13W T5 tube, second one is going strong. I kept it away of tube heat and so it probably outlasts second tube aswell.
So maybe it is actually just the transistors which need to be upgraded. I'm going to look more into this.
"There is the smoothing capacitor (an electronic one), the interference inductor, MY CAT, the interference capacitor here..."
Is your cat a part of the circuitry? How can it fit into the tiny CFL box?
13:41 Schematic including the cat LOL
It is always a good day when DGW uploads
Excellent explanation. You are great at explaining all the details of the circuit and how it operates. Would you consider explaining the circuit of a crt tv? Things like the horizontal and vertical circuits and how they work in conjunction with the flyback transformer. Or just the workings of the whole circuit.
Very nice explanation as usual, keep it up. Thanks for sharing knowledge and experience.
hey, have you every thought of recording a time lapse of you drawing a schematic?
I used this circuit (20W ikea lamp, but in terms of layout it seems to match) to power an 18W SOX-E LPS lamp by shorting the 2 ends and hooking it up to the LPS. When I used a 35W SOX it went pop on the fusible resistor and the 2 small resistors in line with the transistors. Maybe I also did not short the 2 ends on that attempt. Any idea what could have caused this? Replacing the resistors did not fix the circuit, it went pop again (on the 18W on which it did ran before).
Hey, I have a question.
Is it possible to add a PTC thermister on a instant-on CFL (at the place one is in a pre-heat CFL)?
8:31 better don't do it, I also thougth the same, but after shorting it, the lamp worked for a few seconds and exploded.
Btw. when the heater blows up, sometimes the oscillator still runs, producing too high voltage and blowing itself. That's why those circuts should have some protection against it, but of course they don't, because of cost-cutting process. I have even seen a ballast for those normal straight tubes without this protection, exploding if the tube accidentally disconnects during operation. That's horrible
Nice video. What he says about the resistor in 13:40 please?
"Here is the fusible resistor, which is also an inrush resistor."
Excellent and interesting information about those circuits! Thank you.
Stylish way... 23:58 lowerrrr
You can also use an 141Am radiation source from a smoke detector to ionize the mercury vapour inside the tube to start the gas discharge immediately.
Power the burnt tube with a much bigger choke! And manually ignite the tube and make it run at very high power like 40watts or more.
can you replace the broken heater with equivalent resistor? Or maybe with inductor?
are the voltages directly on the tube measurables?. Amazing video theres a lot of tricks
But the most important question still remains:
What is the doggo called and is he a good boi?
He mustn't be called Dogjgjie, that's for sure.
Jessie... And obviously a good boy.
Source ?v=5PPoP_CYfrM
Bloody hell
@@vaclavtrpisovsky Niiiiiiice! ©
You are so smart, I love watching your videos, so educational.
Please do a video on induction cooker.
17:00 this actually is not a classic forward switcher, but an LC resonant switcher. The capacitor is not a middle point but part of the LC resonance and periodically charged and discharged over the half bridge (hence the 160V on average).
9:00 Wow, as a child I had the same metal tea box to collect something in it. TIME WARP. 🙃
Even a tea boxes was better last century. :-)
Very good explanations.Keep it up.
I can not understand how the half Bridge work, I mean how can it make the square wave and the switching sequence of the transistores by colored lines like in SMPS videos?
It is probably not based on the transformer saturation, but a ZVS steup
Nice info, can we replace the flourescent tube only, one element is open, thanks :)
Pls make video on what's inside chargers i love to watch 😍😍
And love you from India ☺️☺️
That portable scope is nice. I need to find one like that.
That would be awesome if you could elaborate on how circuits could be manipulated by changing values of components, in order to achieve different output.
Perhaps using a resistor between the wires to the blown heater rather than shorting them would provide a more durable repair.
I used 10ohm and repaired 3 lamps: first one lasted 1 month, second blow up after 5 minutes and last one didn't last 1 minute. So if tube is worn out it is always temporary repair.
@Rocky Robinson Where I live entire CFLs with ballast were cheaper than bare tubes due to energy efficiency incentive programs so replacing the tube would almost never make sense. Although I did have one unit which failed right away in the startup circuit. I took the good tube from that and paired it with the ballast from one with a burnt out tube.
Wonderful vídeo, I never get how this lamps works, the schematics looks super weird for me, thanks for sharing
Why diac and not zener?
I should adopt your disclaimer for my channel. It’s epic
Gosh that screw driver hack got me laughing. I do that sometimes too. Hahaha
Kde jsi je sehnal (v té době)? Taky sháním podobné GU10.
2:03 - nice tips & trick
Does anyone know what material this electron emitting support material around the glowing wires in the inside of the tube is,?
Great video as always Dany, one observation, If the heaters/filaments are in series it may have been better to bypass the open one with a resistor so the good one doesn't see twice the normal voltage/current 🤔 its very similar to the " electronic transformer " circuit
Nice video.
I love the video, unfortunately you didn't really specify how the current moves inside the tube. I was thinking during start up (transistor below turns on from the diac) then the current moves from the positive terminal through the tube and then move from the inductor to the floating point moves through the transistor below back to the negative terminal. Then my question is how would the current move when the upper transistor turns on ?
hi, how are you are measuring the ac power with that dmm ? can you please teach us ? :)
Hey does it is possible to use the electonic blast within the CFL or Tubelight as SMPS without feedback
It's definitely possible, but it may not be practical. In most cases it's better to use a power supply with a feedback. The CFL inverter maybe could be used as an electronic halogen transformer.
How much exactly is the voltage across th neon tube... (across the 1,6 kv capacitor)?
I'd guess barely 100V when running, but several times higher during startup.
Finally found a great explanation for those, TY!!!!!!!
I open mine broken osram cfl and reuse bulb part, on mine electronic failed. Reuse bulb part and make it preheat, put some magnetic ballast and old neon starter. still works fine in my homemade lamp.
Can you explain how your power-meter works?
You should add more dog autotransformer controller in your videos too. Or perhaps both pets.
Excellent analysis
Nice teardown :) I don't like CFLs though to be honest, because LEDs are way better in terms of lifespan, switching on/off cycles, and energy efficiency. Incandescent and halogen bulbs (whilst you can still get them on eBay) are also nice for use with dimmer switches, or for a traditional light (or in cupboards/areas where rapid switching of the bulbs means that CFLs and LEDs make no sense).
Fantastic idea and cool content
Don't short heater pins.... use 4.7 ohoms 1/2w resistor .... it will run last long
Better put 8 Ohm so you balance inrush current as before!
can you please show us how to draw schematic diagram from pcbs?
When the diac failed it doesnt start up?
Transistors blow up because the cat was in wrong polarisation:)
This is why you always pet the cat preventively in order to please the Gods of cuteness :D
Sir, how can we measure amps, watts, current etc with the help of a multimeter. Please reply.
danyk.cz/wmetr_en.html
The shunt resistor is changed from 0.4 ohm to 4 ohm (additional 3.6 ohm) for the x0.1 range.
@@DiodeGoneWild Thank you for correcting me. That circuit is more complex, then I thought.
They look similar to the one you took completely apart 3 years ago, nice :)
I wonder if the old tube repair would last longer if you put an 8Ohm resistor in place instead of shorting the old heater. It may make the other heater last longer.
Absolutely
Kitty cat doing excellent job of helping
I think this lamps same as you open them few years ago when one of them making pink light due to no mercury inside of tube.
@oH well,lord! it could be because i remember exact same lamps and they were working that time
More smps repairs please
Why does the CFL look familiar?
They don't sell them any more. I have to go to special stores in my country ti see if there are any left
How on earth you draw /trace the schematic?. Is there a simple method to do it?
No. But if you know how these circuits are usually built, or you have schematic of similar device and you try do it often you can learn it. It help make photos of each side.
Never knew if there's any sealed ccfl, usually saw the one with exposed spirals
bad design, the heat from tube must broke the circuits
Complete informative video.i also like to UV light driver thanks
11:48 Best WELL ever!
Very nice explanation 👍
Thank you very much.
Fascinating as usual.
You can use again CFL. Use plasma ball and put near CPL
i think the uv, visible light and heat from the tube broke down the plastic and made it offgas/turn brown. These things would have been more reliable with better thermal management
I actually screamed out loud at 2:01!
do the cat & dog come along ?
Great full ideas
Just gave me an idea how to make a CFL test tool for older TVs
I love your vids
Thanks for the info..👍👌
Let's test them using a dodgy way... I bust out laughing! That was AWESOME.
Nice, but can one still buy these ?