Anti-Mormons CAUGHT making up FAKE Racist Brigham Young Quotes! (feat. @BeyondGodandReligion)
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- Опубліковано 21 жов 2024
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So, all of us within the church have met our fair share of anti-mormons that think they know "what really happened" because they read some kind of cynical misinterpretation of church history and think they have the "truth" or the "real story." Ex-mormon anti-mormonism has become so dependent upon half-truths that now they don;t even want the "half" of the truth anymore and are LITERALLY just making up fake racist brigham young quotes, living up to every negative stereotype of r/exmormon sub-reddit and the CES letter lazy learners. The latest anti-mormon to beclown himself is Kyle Glenn Bishop, but he is really just the representation of a wider problem of misinformative lies propagated by the anti-mormon mob. Check out the video (if hew hasn't deleted it) at: www.tiktok.com...
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"If it's on the internet, it must be true." --Abraham Lincoln
That's so crazy it has the full reference beneath it to make it look legit yet makes it so easy to debunk.
Tailor made for the lazy learner to consume 😊
That’s savage. 😂
Mmmm…I wonder where anti’s learned how to take quotes out of context and leave out the context😂 this is hilarious. You guys are describing my first 30 years in the church!
@@Sayheybrother8out of context? These weren’t taken from a discourse out of context. They were fabricated from thin air.
@@Sayheybrother8 Another lazy learner. You only desired to be taught with brevity and would suffer no more. And when you found there was more that you had not received, you said you were deceived and meat was withheld from you, despite choosing to partake of only milk.
In doing my own searching in the Journal of Discourses, I was actually able to find at least 3 entries specifically from Brigham Young regarding the Indians. In these three, Brigham Young is addressing how the Saints should respond to aggression from the few hostile groups that had robbed, attacked, and even killed some of the Saints or other travelers in the area. In every case, Brigham Young made very clear that the Saints should only ever fight in self-defense, they shouldn't condemn a whole tribe for the actions of one man, and that the Saints are expected to live Christ's gospel and forgive. Keeping in mind that they viewed this time as almost a time of war between them and the Indians, his statements are in no way calling for poor treatment of them. He hopes that the Saints can help bring them the Gospel. Any talk of them being evil was only in regards to the evil actions done against the saints and Brigham Young specifically said that they are doing the Lord's work by chastising the Saints to be better.
I'm glad you did this episode. It made me learn a lot more myself.
Sources: Journal of Discourses, Volume 1;27, Volume 6;59, Volume 11;40
IF Brigham Young gave approval or The Order to attack and kill the Settler's (Mountain Meadows Massacre) WHY was their an attempt to blame it on Indians????????
Have you read this? Part of the journal of discourses?
“Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This will always be so” (Brigham Young, March 8, 1863, Journal of Discourses 10:110. See also John Lewis Lund’s The Church and the Negro, 1967, p. 54).
@@getharryonsax Utter racist rant. Clearly not a Prophet of God.
Mormon or Anti-Mormon we can all condemn making up quotes in order to deamonize a person is wrong.
The one thing we cannot say is that BY was not racist.
@@ericredd4544 Which would be saying nothing really. We are all racist one way or another. Most people probably don’t even realize it of course because they haven’t been put in a situation that would bring that out is all. Nonetheless, and more importantly, seeing as none of us alive have ever met Brigham Young, it seems a bit of a stretch to judge him one way or the other.
It is difficult enough to judge people around us in our present world. Impossible, in fact, to my mind. A person might never really understand themselves in this life, let alone truly understand another person, even the person they think they know better than anyone else. However, in the case of Brigham Young, all you have access to is, at best, written records.
Even in our day, written records are not necessarily accurate. Anyone can write something down. They can make something look bad by leaving out important context or outright making something up.
Also, even if someone is sincerely trying to make an accurate written record they might have filters and biases that prevent them from doing so. And, even if somehow they can get rid of those filters and biases, they can still get it wrong. They might have thought they heard Brigham Young say such and such, but they misheard it and didn’t follow up to confirm. Or, they might have heard it correctly, but messed up the quote when they actually put their pen to the paper. And on and on.
So many difficulties in getting it right even if someone is trying to get it right. However, more often than not, there is an agenda, a bias, a less than objective intention.
Heck, even if someone is trying to make an accurate written record about themselves and what they themselves believe and what they have actually said, can get it wrong.
Case in point, even with the technology we have today, who here can record their own history in perfect detail in a manner that all future questions about you could be perfectly answered without dispute even while you are still alive, let alone after your death?
Further, when you stop and think about it, what we do have when it comes to any current affair even is just a fraction of a fraction of what we COULD have if we had all the info that is conceivably possible. And, when it comes to historical matters, we are lucky to get a fraction of what was recorded, but even if we get all that was recorded, it is still just a fraction of a fraction of what COULD have been recorded, so we are dealing in imperfect sets of data no matter what.
The more I learn about Brigham Young, the more impressed I become. For a little while, I held my nose when talking about Brigham Young in church. But I continued to study and learn about him and now I revere him. He wasn’t perfect, but he was quite an amazing man and absolutely dedicated to the Lord.
Adam-God Theory??? His Prophetic Position on Blacks??? Gee, you really give the guy a break.
@@krismurphy7711how did his cities conpare to modern cities crime rate?
You think it is honest to compare mid-1800s Salt Lake with 2023 Chicago??@@SaxSpy
@@krismurphy7711 why not? are you saying it isnt fair because they were a moral people back then?
It's the same as talking about Thomas Jefferson and George Washington. Imperfect humans with phenomenal talent and special callings.
These videos debunking those lies are so much needed! Members of the church are facing all of this false information on TikTok and loosing their faith
TikTok really looks like a communist conspiracy. Bumper-sticker rumors, factoids, slogans and logic fails everywhere. The premier Useful Idiot app.
NOT false information ..... Joseph Smith, as a Young Man, AFTER THE CLAIMED FIRST VISION, engaged in FRAUDULENT "MONEY DIGGING." He claimed to see buried treasure while looking at a rock in a hat. Nothing of value ever found. Weirdly, The Church now says Joseph used the same method to "translate" The Book of Mormon. How is your faith now???
Anytime.
@@WARDRADIO ?????
ANYTIME WHAT?? @@WARDRADIO
I love these videos where the anti-mormons are exposed. lets keep this up
Well, we love you, King.
???
Old Joe's 'rock in the hat', was once anti-mormon. How anti-mormon are you right now and don't even know it?
@@nerdnul ok boomer.... you're really trying to date yourself. Also that is stupid logic. When will these fake Brigham Young quotes no longer be considered anti mormon but actual gospel. It never will be.
@@gordianknot9595 Brother Knot. You seem like someone that knows a lot of things. Answer me this, what are we? Where did we come from? What is the purpose of life? What happens to us after death?
this is why I say anti-mormons are so exhausting.
we don't need your fake pressure. Just hold exmo lies accountable like the guy in the video. Your selective outrage is obvious @@lukev483
LOL.... Antis are exhausting because of the Inconvenient Truths they speak
I once was told by my history/English teacher in middle school (I live in Utah) that Brigham Young was racist. And she claimed to have quotes, so I was honestly very intrigued and ready to have my mind changed.
The quotes of Brigham Young she handed out were extremely doctored.
There were three instances of brackets [ ] that had racist remarks in them (this means that Brigham Young did not say that part), and also 3 instances of ... (Meaning they left out large areas of information).
The thing that really sealed the deal of it being fake and wrong was: ...[very racist sentence]
That last part means that there is zero truth in that part (which was the most racist part of the quotes), and that they intentionally are trying to indoctrinate and skew peoples views on Brigham Young
“But let me tell you further. Let my seed mingle with the seed of Cain, [and] that brings the curse upon me, and upon my generations, [after me - should we do this] we will reap the same rewards with Cain”
-
(The Teachings of President Brigham Young: Vol. 3 1852-1854, Fred C. Collier, ed., p. 44. Speech given to the Joint Session of the Legislature in Salt Lake City, on Thursday, February 5, 1852. Brackets in original)
“This doctrine did not originate with President Brigham Young but was taught by the Prophet Joseph Smith. At a meeting of the general authorities of the Church, held August 22, 1895, the question of the status of the negro in relation to the Priesthood was asked and the minutes of that meeting say: ‘President George Q. Cannon remarked that the Prophet taught this doctrine: That the seed of Cain could not receive the Priesthood nor act in any of the offices of the Priesthood until the seed of Abel should come forward and take precedence over Cain’s offspring”
-
(Joseph Fielding Smith, The Way to Perfection, p. 110. See also Milton R. Hunter’s Pearl of Great Price Commentary, 1948, pp. 141-142)
--------
“From the beginning of this dispensation, Joseph Smith and all succeeding presidents of the Church have taught that Negroes, while spirit children of a common Father, and the progeny of our earthly parents Adam and Eve, were not yet to receive the priesthood, for reasons which we believe are known to God, but which He has not made fully known to man.
Our living prophet, President David O. McKay, has said, “The seeming discrimination by the Church toward the Negro is not something which originated with man; but goes back into the beginning with God….”
-
1969 First Presidency Statement
December 15, 1969
Crazy to see that people would stoop to that level of making up quotes to defend their case
"people".....???? They are pointing out one guy's alleged fabrication. Did they contact him? PS...don't fall for the Midnight Mormon Boys attempted smear of ALL "antis"
That's what Adam Schiff did in Congress.
Making up or misrepresenting beliefs or quotes from anyone is disgusting behavior. I feel your frustration.
Agree.....BUT THEN Cardon and Others go on a RANT FEST claiming, falsely, that ALL or 90% of "Anti" Stuff is a lie/fake. THAT IS A LIE AND I KNOW THEY KNOW BETTER!!!
Who me? I'm not white. I'm Mormon.
Brigham Young was the right prophet at the right time. Really think about the time period and moving the Church across the US and building Zion in the wilderness. Yes, he said a lot of dumb things while speculating about moon men and whatnot. He clearly felt pressure filling the shoes of Joseph Smith. That being said, it was a rough time that called for a tough leader. He was the right man to lead the Church at that time, no doubt.
It's kinda like how the CES letter assumes you won't do the research to verify the supposed "error" when 2 Nephi "misquotes" Isaiah by repeating an actual error found in the King James version. All this while 2 Nephi really quotes Isaiah the right way and proves Joseph Smith is a prophet 🤣🤣
Isaiah quoted in The Book of Mormon does not prove Joseph was a Prophet. It is not faith promoting.
@@krismurphy7711Of course "prove" is hyperbole but it is obviously evidence of Joseph's prophethood to see Bible mistakes being corrected when quoted directly from the brass plates. It also puts egg on the face of the CES letter for falsely claiming otherwise.
@@loudogg73 What specific passage are you talking about. Some of the quoted Isaiah includes KJV errors? KJV passages.
"The Book of Mormon quotes entire chapters from Isaiah, following the King James Version almost word for word. Smaller biblical interactions scattered throughout the Book of Mormon also tend to use the wording of the KJV.1 Even more intriguingly, when the Book of Mormon Isaiah chapters differ from the KJV, the differences are often at locations where the KJV has italicized words.2 These variants are usually minor but sometimes result in readings that conflict with the larger context of Isaiah’s message or create ungrammatical or even nonsensical sentences, particularly in the earliest text of the Book of Mormon." @@loudogg73
@@lukev483 The Isaiah passages actually are not verbatim from the KJV. That's actually the idea I was getting at.
What if he's doing this as a plot to get people to read the journal of discourses who wouldn't normally read it?
For the record Brigham is my favorite prophet. If it's even possible to have a favorite prophet. He absolutely rocks. He knows how to peel back the veil for me so I see the eternities and feel to drop my sins and become more like Christ.
And I am not white. I'm among those listed as a cursed people in the BoM and I love that prophet second only to Christ and Joseph. I will be walking up to thank him for his ministry day one when I get to the other side.
Same dude who was okay with neutering young men for hitting on young women other leaders wanted?
@Sayheybrother8 you talking about the time that Brigham young thought it wasn't worth it to discipline members of the church who held up a prison wagon, castrated the occupant on his way to a penitentiary for committing rape?
Because that story got spun and spun until it ended up claiming a guy got ambushed in a church and had his balls nailed to a wall, because he flirted with a woman a leader wanted for himself.
Because whenever I look up Brigham Young approving of castration it always eventually goes back to this story specifically because pretty much all stories about it are just made up modified versions of this one event that actually happened.
@@justiningham187 no I think president Snow knows exactly what happened but not surprised you’re able to spin it to sound like he had it coming to him😂 The priceless art of apologetics. There’s always a different way you can look at it huh!
“But let me tell you further. Let my seed mingle with the seed of Cain, [and] that brings the curse upon me, and upon my generations, [after me - should we do this] we will reap the same rewards with Cain”
-
(The Teachings of President Brigham Young: Vol. 3 1852-1854, Fred C. Collier, ed., p. 44. Speech given to the Joint Session of the Legislature in Salt Lake City, on Thursday, February 5, 1852. Brackets in original)
“This doctrine did not originate with President Brigham Young but was taught by the Prophet Joseph Smith. At a meeting of the general authorities of the Church, held August 22, 1895, the question of the status of the negro in relation to the Priesthood was asked and the minutes of that meeting say: ‘President George Q. Cannon remarked that the Prophet taught this doctrine: That the seed of Cain could not receive the Priesthood nor act in any of the offices of the Priesthood until the seed of Abel should come forward and take precedence over Cain’s offspring”
-
(Joseph Fielding Smith, The Way to Perfection, p. 110. See also Milton R. Hunter’s Pearl of Great Price Commentary, 1948, pp. 141-142)
--------
“From the beginning of this dispensation, Joseph Smith and all succeeding presidents of the Church have taught that Negroes, while spirit children of a common Father, and the progeny of our earthly parents Adam and Eve, were not yet to receive the priesthood, for reasons which we believe are known to God, but which He has not made fully known to man.
Our living prophet, President David O. McKay, has said, “The seeming discrimination by the Church toward the Negro is not something which originated with man; but goes back into the beginning with God….”
-
1969 First Presidency Statement
December 15, 1969
@@Psuedo-Christian-Cult true. The first shall be last and the last shall be first. Gods timing is not our timing. What he does he does for the benefit of all his children even if we don't get it yet.
You know what’s interesting to me is that the wording in some of these fake quotes, especially this part of one “the Indians are a curse to the land, and they must be exterminated or driven beyond the mountains…” is reminiscent of the extermination order against the saints that was issued by governor Boggs. Specifically this part “The Mormons must be treated as enemies, and must be exterminated or driven from the state if necessary for the public peace-their outrages are beyond all description.” Like how messed up is that to use similar wording from something that caused so much suffering for the saints and tweak it and attribute it to an LDS prophet.
Brigham Young is my second favorite prophet after Joseph. Truly a great man who did many miracles in building the western wasteland into civilization.
@@lukev483now we see the real reason…
@@lukev483no evidence
Why did he make Utah Territory SLAVERY LEGAL?
ChatGPT: "give me racist Brigham Young quotes"
No need for ChatGBT just read his journals😂
In all honesty this is probably what happened. That lawyer got caught because chat GPT was making up cases to cite as precedent.
I really do think this is exactly what happened.
If this is what happened, it's sad.
ChatGPT used to be believable
🤣
Wouldn’t be the first time that opponents of the saints fabricated lies in order stir up anger, hatred and incite violence against us.
“But let me tell you further. Let my seed mingle with the seed of Cain, [and] that brings the curse upon me, and upon my generations, [after me - should we do this] we will reap the same rewards with Cain”
-
(The Teachings of President Brigham Young: Vol. 3 1852-1854, Fred C. Collier, ed., p. 44. Speech given to the Joint Session of the Legislature in Salt Lake City, on Thursday, February 5, 1852. Brackets in original)
“This doctrine did not originate with President Brigham Young but was taught by the Prophet Joseph Smith. At a meeting of the general authorities of the Church, held August 22, 1895, the question of the status of the negro in relation to the Priesthood was asked and the minutes of that meeting say: ‘President George Q. Cannon remarked that the Prophet taught this doctrine: That the seed of Cain could not receive the Priesthood nor act in any of the offices of the Priesthood until the seed of Abel should come forward and take precedence over Cain’s offspring”
-
(Joseph Fielding Smith, The Way to Perfection, p. 110. See also Milton R. Hunter’s Pearl of Great Price Commentary, 1948, pp. 141-142)
--------
“From the beginning of this dispensation, Joseph Smith and all succeeding presidents of the Church have taught that Negroes, while spirit children of a common Father, and the progeny of our earthly parents Adam and Eve, were not yet to receive the priesthood, for reasons which we believe are known to God, but which He has not made fully known to man.
Our living prophet, President David O. McKay, has said, “The seeming discrimination by the Church toward the Negro is not something which originated with man; but goes back into the beginning with God….”
-
1969 First Presidency Statement
December 15, 1969
I love Brigham Young. He kept the church together during a difficult time. You should interview Daniel Peterson from The Interpreter Foundation. He will give you a new found respect for BY. Love you guys and all of your debunking videos.
Brigham Young was no doubt a remarkable Leader. No question. THE ISSUE is some of his CRAZY THOUGHTS, IDEAS, SAYINGS, AND DOCTRINES.
@@krismurphy7711 he had some crazy ideas. Unfortunately because he was a Prophet we don’t give him grace and realize that he was a man of his time. There were several crazy things people believed then that we obviously take for granted as ridiculous. So much more in our day is common knowledge. That’s exactly why the 15 Brethren have to come to a unified conclusion on everything. We wouldn’t have the gospel with all of its blessings if it weren’t for him; in spite of his crazy ideas and all his imperfections.
THAT is why I say, with conviction, that The Leadership of The Church....EVERY PROPHET and almost all the Apostles, WHO WERE DEAD WRONG ON BLACKS, prove that God and Jesus have little contact with them...ALL....and they ALL are not Prophets, Seers and Revelators. YOU CAN'T ALL BE SOOOOOO WRONG FOR SOOOOOO LONG AND BE THAT. @@PeggyWest1127
@@krismurphy7711 You seem a little unhinged. Have you ever been institutionalized?
Don't mind Luke, today his daddy took away his pink panties collection. So he's mad.
oh my gawsh! Luke, you poor thing! I didn't know!
I know this has nothing to do with your current discussion, but I found this reading a book the New Testament verse by verse by D Kelly Ogden and Andrew Skinner. In in Romans, with the discussion of grace, they quote Billy Graham, who said “too often we have tended towards superficiality and over emphasis on easy, believe, ism, or experience rather than on true disciple ship, we have sometimes offer, cheap grace and cheap conversion without genuine repentance”. Thought that was interesting.
This is a great video, we need to call these people out and make sure they are forced to confront their own words.
Love this! You guys are freakin' awesome! Keep it up!
I've seen stuff like this before, fake quotes from real sources. It's sad because stuff like this leads away those who don't seek to know the truth.
The Truth about LDS history, early on, is not good.
Good job Kwaku! You'd think anyone who has lived thru the past 7-8 years would know by now not to accept ANYTHING they find on the internet without verifying it. Yet hardly anyone does.
Have you verified that Joseph Smith was involved with and married YOUNG GIRLS? 14...15...16...17.... (BTW, it has been verified by The Church)
@@krismurphy7711 It's been verified that you use lies and hateful rhetoric about things you know little about.
@@dwRS1 That is a lie. You are lying. And, I’m a Member. I’ve been questioning now for years….and all I get is crap like you spew. Playing The Ignorance Card won’t work.
@@dwRS1 How old are you??
@@krismurphy7711 Okay, then how do I know you are being intellectually dishonest? If you study early church history honestly you would understand in what context the prophet Joseph was involved with polygamy and why. You clearly don't understand that. The church of Jesus Christ is not based on the Bible. It is based on what the Bible is based on. Revelation through prophets. No prophets were or are perfect. Only Jesus Christ is perfect. Do your research and come to your own conclusion. Maybe you already have. I choose to follow our wonderful (imperfect) modern day prophets.
What... You mean people make up things about our church that isn't true?? You mean they lie about us😱👀.
Sorry... Sarcasm is my thing 🤣. Great videos guys!! Love what you're doing
Well said. People make stuff up about our church that isn’t true. Yes, your church isn’t true and it is sad that people make up lies when all the real evidence is so strong.
They learned it from Joseph Smith....an ULTIMATE BSer
Satan's children are lier's.
Light is increasing.
Darkness has had its 6000 years to educate us in evil and good--"conflict" is done--"cut it short."
Thank You brethren for Your contribution.
If you have to lie to make your point, do you even have a point?
TRUTH and FACTS. They are the only things that count....and they can't be erased or watered down by "testimonies"
In all of the 26 Vol. of the Journal of Discourses Brigham only used the word "exterminated" once and it was in reference to the ancient Christians, and he used the word exterminate twice, one referring to the persecutions of the Jews and the other referred to the Mormons.
Also I know that we have a hard time with Brigham now, but I’m amazed at how well the move west went. I think despite any flaws he might have had he was exactly who the church needed at the time to make it through all of that and build a functioning society in the middle of nowhere. Ben Wilson with the “how to take over the world podcast” (also works with the my first million podcast) did an awesome episode on him from a historical perspective. He would be a fun guest for this show.
Dude! Hook us up!!!
@@madmanmanx I don’t know him personally, but I’ll try to contact him.
Why was Utah Territory Slavery legal???
@@krismurphy7711 I don’t know. Look it up. Why was slavery legal in the US?
UTAH WAS MORMONLAND.....CHRIST'S RESTORED CHURCH .....BRIGHAM, SPOKESPERSON AND MOUTHPIECE OF GOD AND JESUS....AND YET, he pushed and allowed Utah Territory to be PRO SLAVERY....SLAVERY LEGAL. WHY????@@ThoseOneGuysInc
And way to call out the lying, anti’s.
Kris Murphy is Sandra Tanner's love-child.
I would be proud to have Sandra adopt me...just for time. I'm already sealed to my Parents.
@@lukev483 Oh yes I do, I'm a man among men, with jadoobies like coconuts.
@@krismurphy7711 This one is absolutely SATURATED with lies mentioning "spiritual eyes". Go and confront every single one of them. Then report back to me.
I have original edition(s) of all the volumes of the JOD and have read them front to back and believe me they do say some crazy stuff, but never do they say some crazy sh** like that though…
When are you guys gonna release a video detailing all the "ANTI/EX-MO LAWS"??
The only “law” in play is The Desperate TBM Law. When you find a liar, call them all liars….even if that is a lie.
@krismurphy7711 what is a Tiny Butthole Man? Is this a self reference? Are you the desperate Tiny Butthole Man? Lying about lies? I'm so confused Mr. Kris Murphy. So confused.
Thanks guys.
Brilliant expose! Thanks for this!
On ONE Guy
These quotes sound like AI invented
I’ve actually ran into this on several occasions with anti’s. Quotes that didn’t exist, supposedly from several different prophets. A long tradition going back to the 1800s. Less excuse, these days, with so many readily-available ways to check sources. Reminds me of the tactics the Tanners used to engage in.
@@lukev483 Bro rewrite your sentence. No one can understand you.
@@lukev483 No, I didn't. Rewrite it.
@@lukev483 Urin? 🤣
The racism of the guy who invented these fake quotes
Job well done guys
"We all had a dealer at one point"
🤣🤣🤣🤣 Kwaku you're the best!!!
😂 90% of statistics are made up on the spot AND 90% of ExMo Brigham Young quotes are ...
Brigham Young - Adam came into the garden of Eden with a celestial body and one of his many wives, he is our Father and God. The Father, not the Holy Spirit, conceived Jesus with the Virgin Mary. Journal of Discourses, vol. 1, p. 50 (April 9, 1852)
@@krismurphy7711does it bother you that an anti Mormon straight up made a quote up about brigham young?
@@lukev483 lol your comment had nothing to do with this video mine did, just shows me that a church lives rent free in your head stay mad
Of course. Multiple reasons.... First...Don't need to. Brigham said more than enough to sink his credibility. Second....LYING is always counter productive because it almost always will be discovered.@@mickski548
@@lukev483 it doesn’t bother me because the book of Mormon wasn’t made up
See, this is why I have a hard time with our historians giving validity to Mormonism unveiled claims.
I feel like these quotes are actually things Lilburn W Boggs said with a few modifications.
I know this guy! We were in the same YSA back in 2015 in California. He was really cool back then. A few years later he started posting all this anti stuff on his FB and saying that the church was a fraud. I wonder if we can get him on??
Why the hell would you want to bring an obvious liar on the show lol?
@@jacobbowers7137 lol true, but figured atleast give the liar a chance to correct the record
Probably the most useful video you guys have made. Great job. I was entertained, shocked, and educated all at once.
Glad you enjoyed it! Remember, the Church is truer than you think!
@@WARDRADIO LOL, Agreed!
Cardon and the Others LIED when they said ALL Antis lie. They found ONE GUY and that was enough to base their LIES on.
@@krismurphy7711 Anti’s lie and rely upon the lies of others. This one guy is one of many. They all pretend to be victims. I feel sorry for NONE of them.
I’m not saying everyone in the Church is perfect, because that would be far from true. But I refuse to allow others disaffection from the membership of the Church be an excuse for them to turn around and spread anti-Mormon literature (full of lies and biased misrepresentation of facts) to the masses.
If one wants to leave, leave. Go live your life. Stop blaming the Church for all your problems and do something worthwhile (they almost never do). I can respect that decision. I have ZERO respect for anyone that dedicates their lives to attacking the Church though (I.e. John Dehlin, etc).
They have been forging false quotes from the beginning, because they do what their father, who is The Father Of Lies, taught them. "Blessed are you when men speak all manner of evil against you falsely."
@@lukev483 Recycling old outdated lies still. Which rule is that again? Besides, it wasn't until 1885 that sex with females under 16 was made illegal, with stricter penalties for those under 13. And child porn wasn't declared illegal until 1977, with broader application in 1996.
@@lukev483 A lot of things considered disturbing now, were common practice among all back then. Giving alcohol and cocaine to babies to calm them, not bathing, public executions by hanging, guillotine ect., challenging to duels for affronts ect., that doesn't make those who participated in bad people, just perhaps less informed. Brigham Young married as many women over 60 years old, and almost as many women in their 50s, as women 15 to 17 years old, and none younger than that. And most of his wives were in their 20s.
@@lukev483 Polygamy was way more common than you think, polyandry is still common in Northern India to this day. And stop projecting your own twisted thoughts onto the prophets of God.
@@lukev483 That's right, keep showing your stupidity. Keep showing that you haven't done ANY research on your own. Keep showing how lazy you are. Until you become an honest, hard working and intelligent person, this church has no use for you.
@@lukev483 As for an example, Sacagawea was 13 years old when she led the Lewis and Clark Expedition, and already married to a middle aged French Man. In Romeo And Juliet by William Shakespeare, Juliet's mother says "She's almost 14, by the time I was her age I was already a mother." Those are just two famous examples. In America there weren't even laws against sex with someone under 16 years of age until 1885. And most, if not all states, don't even have laws against marrying someone under 18, as long as they have the parents permission, unless laws giving a minimum age were made in the last few decades. I'd have to look that up. Okay, I just looked, and five states still have no minimum age limit for marriage, though they have to meet certain criteria, I'm sure the obvious, no close family relationship, no mental handicaps, the older person not being on the Offender Registery and who knows what else. And no, Utah wasn't one of the five states. And while I can't find anything that gives a percentage of 14 year old marriages, they do state "It was not all that uncommon." So why were so many women marrying at 13-14 years old? There was limited education available for women, and limited career options. Homemaker was what was expected for women. And that's the age they are reproductively viable. So you're trying to turn an anthill into a mountain, but it is negated by the facts.
Anyone who has read the history of Brigham Young in relation to the Indians knows that is an absolute lie. There was no better. I repeat no better friend to the native American Indians than Brigham Young. It doesn't take much study to find out for yourself.
bingo. the real tension was when he demanded they end the slave trade. Brigham was a titan. A stud. Would we had any more Brighams.
This was awesome! Keep it up boys!!! 🔥
We will!
Keep up The Lying????
Cue: Don't Call Me White by NOFX
😂
Crazy video! Nice work!
Not only is the constant reference to "the white man" not a common usage by Brigham Young, but the lack of "Lamanites". Anyone taking the time to read actual Brigham Young quotes about Native Americans would notice that he uses "Lamanite" 3-5 times more often than "Indian".
Oops they weren’t lamanites though 😅
This is why reading and understand prophecy in the Bible and Book of Mormon is so necessary. It predicts people like this. Every Antagonist in the stories starting from Cain who lied about his Brother to God represents the antagonists of the Church of Christ.
11:37 whoa interesting to see that Adam-God theory. The first paragraph of the page basically saying that the faithful will pass various prophets in turn until reaching Jesus. After that they will finally arrive at “Father Adam”, followed immediately by a quote from the Bible: “this is eternal life, to know thee, the only true God, and Jesus whom thou hast sent”
I've found this in conversations with others. Making up quotes that can't be substantiated.
Brigham Young - Adam came into the garden of Eden with a celestial body and one of his many wives, he is our Father and God. The Father, not the Holy Spirit, conceived Jesus with the Virgin Mary. Journal of Discourses, vol. 1, p. 50 (April 9, 1852)
Thank you for the truth. As Cardon taught:
The Nephites were "the last great civilation of North America" and the Lamanites "the principal ancestors of the American Indians "
So how does having meso American "theory" espousing guests on the show differ from what these antis are saying?
Great job boys! Always my favorite content!
we got you fam
@@WARDRADIO Cardon, can you get some type of sound mixer that makes it so I don’t have to keep turning my volume up and down to listen to the UA-cam videos?
How often he says "dude" reminds me of the ninja turtles, or those turtles from Finding Nemo.
It's funny how Kris Murphy and Luke are silent on this. You will never hear bitter exmos like them get angry over their fellow exmos spreading fake quotes.
True... Kris Murphy? Where are you?
Yes, Poo Head Number One and Poo Head Number Two, where are you?
@@lukev483 you know we could just block you right? You know you exist in your self-proclaimed capacity of this channel’s “Satan” (your words, not mine) by the graceful patience of our moderators right? Your entitlement seems to blind you and you forget you can only “make fun” of this channel and it’s silly beliefs by the patient grace of our comment regulators, right? You are not some benevolent catfish, keeping us moving…. Your behavior is juvenile and un-constructive at best.
@@lukev483 “Fools mock, but they shall mourn”. I hope the pride with which you engage in your mockery is self-regulated, before the Lord finds a method of regulating it in His way. Man to man, child of God to Child of God… I hope you can try and learn some humility and temperance and respect before the universe, eager to maintain its balance, finds it for you.
I was here. I got focused on your Short...RANT...and responded to you repeated that I DENOUNCE ALL LYING. And I have both Moral and Practical Reasons. Lying is immoral. I think being Intellectually Dishonest is also lying and immoral. ALSO....Lying is usually COUNTER PRODUCTIVE. Lies rarely go unnoticed or not called out. So... If I wanted to prove The Lord's Mouthpiece Brigham Young was a F'n racist, there is no need to lie. It's all there...and it is enough. AND, why would I risk the fallout from trying to use a lie and then getting caught? To have spazzes like Cardon and Cousin Tom run and rant???? I denounce ALL lying and in particular by those who MAY try to use it in the context of LDS History. @@WARDRADIO
I have debated anti=s that straight face lie concerning things they falsely claim that prophets and Apostles have "said".
The dude looks like Kevin Spacey!🤣
He looks like John Dehlin’s son. How about all the garbage on the CES letter about names of places that most didn’t even exist or that Joseph Smith couldn’t have known about from the Book of Mormon.
How about half the names that did?
This is *amazing*
It would be great if you guys would put your stuff on spotify still. I don't have enough time to catch up on all this on youtube and I don't want to pay for youtube red. with spotify I can listen during work.
And did they just claim that John C Bennett wrote the happieness letter?
When people lie to sabotage a religion's relationship with other people... is pretty bad. It should be a hate crime where they exist.
This chanel is amazing. Thank you for standing up :)
Our pleasure! Share with a friend!
Standing up is commendable for any Believer. But...I hope you don't really believe Cardon and the Others when they claim Antis/ExMos/Questioning Members ALL use LIES to try to make their case? That is in fact a LIE and THEY ALL KNOW IT.
7:21 that TikToker was obviously translating Journal of Discourses into the Book of Fabri-Sham
Are you excusing blatant dishonesty? I thought you people valued "truth" above all. It's very telling that you are ok with this.
@@davevine22 LOL!
SO WHAT !! HE IS A PROPHET OF GOD!! That's good enough for me!!
Every time I see a spicy Brigham Quote from the antis, I open the journal of Discourses to see what context they dropped.
One made it seem like he was outright condoning murder, when in context he was talking about crimes of passion vs premediated crimes, and was altogether a reasonable (though not modern) take on frontier justice.
Its always worth noting Brighams trajectory too. He started off with standard 1800s beliefs in racial inferiority of slaves, slavery was a positive influence etc, that and later taught that slavery was immoral and should be fought against. Something changed him 180° on the issue as he lead the church and I contend that the Lord softened his heart. Joseph was a young boy when called by the Lord, but Brigham came in as a man, whose best friend had been murdered and heavy responsibility with all his fully formed opinions that Christ had to beat out of him.
I love President Young, warts and all.
Also, Brigham was the Prophet AND the governor. So his speeches were sometimes politically motivated. I think your approach is awesome.
So messed up, only a fan of about 50% of your episodes. This one was good honest. Hope he issues a response.
It was filled with lies. The Big Lie today in this podcast is that ALL Antis lie.
Quote #3: (confirming your search from legacy hardcopy): Reference for Brigham Young Sep 21 1856 is Vol 4 pg 43-45, nothing to do with natives. Reference Vol 4 P219 is Brigham Young on Feb 8, 1857, nothing to do with native americans, closest topic is something about blood atonement.
These quotes could easily be attributed to a vast majority of white Americans during this time period, but definitely not to the “Mormons.”
One of my own direct ancestors had many dealings with the natives in Utah Territory or aka Deseret. He famously said it is better to feed the Indians than to fight them. I believe he applied that principle from what he had been taught by Brigham Young. In addition to that when there were problems in Sanpete County with natives they had captured some of his kids. They released them after finding out they were children of this man. This kind of information has been passed down through the generations in my family and is documented elsewhere. In case you are wondering the man I am referring to is Elam Cheney b.1825 my 3rd great grandfather.
My pioneer ancestors had similar experiences and were also friendly with the natives unless attacked. Peace with the natives was definitely encouraged by Brigham Young and they actually shared crops and food with them during the winter when the natives were starving. This is well documented in their diaries. David Dan Tanner( son of John Tanner) was known among the natives to be a great friend to them. I second this witness.
If anyone here has been to the mesa temple, the main staircase has to its right the painting of Joseph Smith meeting and teaching the Indians. If we were so aggressive towards them does it make sense to put a painting of them in a house of the Lord?
We killed hundreds of them what are you talking about?!?
@@Sayheybrother8 don’t know who “we” is referring to but there is absolutely no evidence that the church approved of any sort of killing of natives
@@Nate.packer15 We are members of the covenant church and we are beneficiaries of what prophetic decisions were made to create this beautiful state. It sucks that it’s true but it happened and denying it makes you sound reprehensible and unkind.
Are you familiar with The Council of 50 and it's attempted conspiracy to rile up Native Tribes to attempt to overthrow the Federal Government??
Yes, it makes perfect sense to have that painting there ... for public relations purposes.
Gerald and Sandra tanner used to get busted doing this routinely.
Did they? Could you give an example?
The Tanner's probably worshipped Satan in their basement, in fact, I would be surprised if they did not. And sacrificed puppies.
@@wes2176 Could you give an example of what the poster alleges?
@@Themanyfacesofego No, but they are like Neo-Nazis. Their hatred for Mormons is equal to the Neo-Nazis hatred for Jews. Would you be surprised if Neo-Nazis lied about Jews?
@@Themanyfacesofego All Anti-Mormons lie, and they lie a lot.
How much crap was made up back in Joseph's day that is quoted as historical fact. The slander continues. That dude is one sick puppy no matter what. Hope he repents before it's too late.
ALERT!!!! HANNAH STODDARD STANDARD BEING USED!!!!!!
yep, I went and dusted off the copy of the JoD that I inherited and have never looked inside of. Vol 4. P 103 ... doesn't even mention Indians at all. its about handcards vs wagons, and the idea that people are capable of walking great distances. all the way to the next page (which ends the chapter) he never even mentions Indians in any way.
vol 5 : 332 ... also makes no mention of indians or anything at all on subject for that quote.
Good catch.
😂😂😂😂 omgosh I have had conversations with him a year ago. I was facebook friends with him. He is definitely anti mormon and was supposedly showing me the groundbreaking CES letter. Man, we had crazy conversations. He takes everything out of context and, for sure, would not be surprised if he made stuff up. Lol he tries so hard to justify leaving the church.
🤦♀️
Porn is a hell of a drug
Can you give a reference to Brigham Young and not being white? Can't find it
They're so using chat gpt which will generate fake quotes with similar styles of writing
What about the real BS Brigham said? Racist. Pro Slavery. Wrong on Adam.
Brigham Young.... "The blacks should be used like servants, and not like brutes, but they must serve. It is their privilege to live so as to enjoy many of the blessings which attend obedience to the first principles of the Gospel, though they are not entitled to the Priesthood." Journal of Discourses page 184 PDF
Starting Point: Do you denounce outright lies being told about anyone?
Of course. For Two Reasons. First, it is immoral to lie. A sin to bear false witness. Second, lies are too easy to discover, point out, and when caught, the Liar's credibility vanishes.@@WARDRADIO
@@WARDRADIOso Young did say this is what your saying?
Hey guys. What's the discord link? It's not working from your website.
It is sad that so many people will take this mans words as a correct quote and representation of our prophets and beliefs.
Kwaku i agree 1mwith your last statement on if they will make up things now where it can be easier fact checked, what did they make up back when they could not be fact checked like now.
imagine all the people who left the church, divorced their spouse, left their children and fell into the dustbin of nihilism because they believed something that was just 100% fabricated.
@@WARDRADIO exactly
Thank you for showing their lies. I hope and pray that all wake to the awful situation we are all in and turn to the source of all truth and salvation.
imagine how great the Church is without the dead weight of you and your fellow lazy learners!
Luke enjoys kicking himself in the jadoobies.
@@WARDRADIOSadly, I have seen this tragedy firsthand. Those who love and make lies are the vilest of sinners and will have to give an accounting before God one day.
This is what I'm talking about! Why do they have to lie to spread the truth?
So sad they do that
HE did it.
Cardon I keep hearing you mention these rules about anti-mormons. Are these your created rules or did someone else create that list? I would love for you to post them or at least make a video on your channel about them. Hint hint wink wink nudge nudge 😁
He's got a video about them. He made them. And glees to see antis walk right to everyone of them.
You nailed this one Kwaku. Props to you on that!
Suggestion: have less of the reacting to low-hanging fruit anti-Mormon evangelicals but more responding to bigger fruit critics of the church - John Dehlin, Zelph, LDS Skeptic (but Jacob does a good job with that one), Bill Real, RFM, NuanceHoe, and so on.
That would get some heat going!!!
Or 4: He has serious mental challenges, and maybe shouldn't be on the streets.
Hang tight. I'd be happy to address every point you made in this video. I'll have a response video up soon.
Apparently someone deleted my response to him??? Let me repeat. Ball is in your court now. The MM WR Boys have howled that you are a LIAR and are CAUGHT. They have also said that YOUR LIES are TYPICAL of Antis...ExMos... in particular "academia" that are against The Church. So.... BACK UP YOUR QUOTES....or EXPLAIN YOU USED A FALSE QUOTE FROM SOMEWHERE....or APOLOGIZE FOR LYING. Personally I would love to find out that the Quotes in question are for real and accurate....but that does not seem so.
Looking forward to the response.
So ... does your TikTok audience get an apology?
Wow
17:50 the extermination quotes have similar wording to the official Mormon extermination orders from Missouri
"The Mormons must be treated as enemies, and must be exterminated or
driven from the state if necessary for the public peace--their outrages are
beyond all description. If you can increase your force, you are authorized to
do so to any extent you may consider necessary."
Can I have a link to his post? I want to say Hi
These quotes sound like Andrew Jackson or another leader from his era .
Custer perhaps?
where is the link to those rules they should be plastered everywhere on the internet
What about the black menace tiktoks? Can you refute their misquotes of BY?
OR HIS POLICY ON BLACKS BEING BANNED FROM THE PRIESTHOOD??? Fake Indian Quotes...or Real Ones are insignificant compared to his Black Statements and Policies....and creating Utah as a SLAVE TERRITORY
I just visited his tiktok page (what a disgusting display of anti-religious bigotry on parade), and I think, based on the dates I saw, that this video you played samples from has been there for a couple of months, so he has had plenty of time to have had feedback from fact-checkers to make corrections, which to me says that he's not interested in making corrections or even acknowledging the fabricated quotes. BGR is his own business (short for 'Beyond God and Religion'). Like many other outspoken anti-LDS folks, he has a business that caters to and gives 'counseling' to ex-LDS and other ex-religion folks who are looking for validation to feel good about their choices to leave their religious faith. So my take is that he made these quotes up on his own just to feed his anti-LDS and anti-religion rhetoric and 'counseling' business. At the very least, if he did get these totally made-up Brigham Young quotes from another source he should at least fact check them before making and sharing a video on them & sharing it with his fans and customers. Someone with his so-called 'professional credentials' should know better. Like you guys noted, how can anyone trust anything this guy says, especially after seeing this sort of abuse?
If this epitomizes the kind of attitude and rhetoric that one has 'Beyond God and Religion', then I'll pass on that.. not that I would even consider it anyway. Why would anyone want counseling or advice from a person with that attitude or to leave their faith to become like that?
They're not interested in truth. They only look to serve the narrative.
HIS? HIS PAGE??? You mean this is all about just ONE GUY and what HE said???
@@krismurphy7711 - If he was just some random guy online, then yeah he could be pretty much ignored. However, when he has an online business providing 'faith transition counseling', and is a guest on a Mormonish podcast episode, and has a significant voice in the anti-LDS world, then he can expect to be called out when he either creates and/or promotes blatantly false quotes from a past LDS leader in an effort to demonize the LDS faith in general.
@@philandrews2860 I don’t object to any liar or faker being called out. What set me off is Kwaku’s and Cardon’s attempt to paint every Anti or Questioner with this guys deceit. That is dishonest and since they know better, it makes them liars also.
@@philandrews2860 One reason I never Lie or use False Facts is for this very reason. Too easy to get caught and discredited. And…there is no need to. LDS History is full of ammo to prove dishonesty and false prophetic acts.
Quote #2: (From hardcopy) ... JoD Vol 5 has correct time range (1857) but NO addresses given on Sep 6, 1857. Going to Page reference JD Vol 5, p332. Address WAS Brigam Young, but OCT 7 1957, not Sep 6, plus nothing in the entire address regarding Natives whatsoever.