I appreciate this video. As a female gamer, harassment happens all the time. I've recently had to change my battle tag to a random generated tag instead of my original gaming nickname which has always been "DaniGirl" because I couldn't handle the rando's adding me, spam messaging me, and asking for nudes. I also don't play competitive Overwatch with randoms anymore because I refuse to use a mic. I would get harassed at least every other game. If we lost it was always my fault, but only because "I'm a girl". I really prefer not to join guild discords because I really would get "in game" stalkers sometimes even from guildies and its so utterly uncomfortable. I truly hate how much I have been told "I bet its nice to be a girl in gaming, guys will give you any items you want or carry you through dungeons, raids, and pvp." I'm not dissing on any females who do play that way, It's just absolutely not the way I want to play the games I enjoy.
Honestly it's bad enough to be around toxic gamers as any gender, but I couldn't imagine being a female gamer. Just because of all the extra bullshit you have to deal with. I've heard women instantly be called bitches and sluts as soon as they mic up and shit man, they were just trying to capture the objective too, my god.
As a female gamer as well, I too can vouch for this. I don't play any pvp game at all because of this. I can't be arsed to be bullied online for the sole fact that I belong to the (according to these sexist so-called-mens opinion) "wrong" 50% of the population. I have my guldies that I play many different games with, they are my safe, sexim free space online. Our GM is a woman, as it happens. I am always wary of playing with randoms.
Police and government in general does. Taxation is theft. Forcing others to do something they dont want to do is a crime in any part of life until gangsters indoctrinate children into thinking government is above that
the community has changed, and so has Asmon in response… it’s just negative topics and hate on everything, and as soon as it gets a bit political, the comments are full of (right-wing) toxicity. i miss the old times
Not precisely the racism or sexism story you asked for, but one day in BFA I was down by the docks doing table missions. I randomly got an achievement for some arbitrary thing. The game automatically puts the achievement into the chat for anyone nearby. Someone messages me and said "nobody cares about your" whatever the achievement was called. I ignored him and he continued to message me with vulgar messages and belittling me and I had done literally nothing but play the game. It didn't bother me too much, but I remember thinking " what if I was a new player experiencing this? " I would probably have immediately quit the game if that was my first experience and who could blame me? Weird stuff like this happens in every game, but it does seem to happen more in WoW from my own personal experiences.
This blows my mind how different FF is to WoW. Something like that would have the exact oppsite reaction in FF. Some emotes, well wishes, or just getting ignored would be my guess but never straight up weird harassment like that.
@@mann0311 I first played FF14 a few months after launch and it was not like that at all. The air of apathy was very present in the community. People satisfied with the games are going to be nicer than those who have spent years frustrated. I don’t think the people who play WoW are vastly different from those who play FF14. The circumstances they find their game in though, clearly are.
Whereas I haven't had that happen, I do avoid joining guilds on a low-level alt because I hate how it spams chat with the endless achievement links and feel like it would annoy people, so I understand that guy 😂 But he doesn't need to be a cunt about it
@@trtvitor1385 which launch are you talking about? ass i was present for both, and ff14 always had a decent community. It Won best community around its first year. Think the first time i met a really bad person was my first lvl 50 tank run in an expert dungeon for relic, back in the day. But this was after a meta i didn't know about had existed a good while.
Hello Zack, I wasn’t going to say anything, but I have a soft spot for good intentions. I’m a boomer and have kids your age. They love their video games to this day. I play and enjoy them myself. I hope you receive this the way I’m trying to send it. Blizzard isn’t the company you remember, it is a brand now and most of the people that built that brand are gone. It’s a new company pretending to be the brand you love. Accepting that will give you a proper perspective on what your dealing with. Good luck and be safe.
This! It's the ship of Theseus paradox; if you replace every part of the ship of theseus, is it still the ship of theseus? Literally replaced all components of Blizzard - is it still Blizzard? Well, not really. It's the same brand name, but it isn't the company you loved.
Yes, this is true. Its so sad, but so clear too. The passion, the criativity, the intention of past loved games dont exist anymore. Look at WoW, Diablo, Warcraft.. its just a Brand, we are strugling to accept.
My now wife was stalked by a guild member years ago. She used to be friends with him until he got sexual and weird with her. She asked him to stop, and when he wouldn't, she cut ties with him and ignored him. He would continue to make new characters and would keep harassing her. The guy was even kicked out of the guild over it and she went over to Horde side to get away from him. He somehow knew about her other characters as soon as she would make them and continued the harassment. She opened up multiple tickets reporting the harassment and ignore evasions and Blizzard never did anything about it even though they said they would in their ticket responses. It drove her to just quit the game to get away from him. Just wanted to share this story so you know how common this is and how complacent Blizzard is about this.
@@ShakeZoolaGFX I appreciate the heads up if we ever decide to come back. We tried out Shadowlands for about a month together before quitting again. Not due to harassment or anything. I think the stalker is long gone at this point. We quit this time mostly because the game was stale to us. But once again, appreciate it.
its so stupid that they would only "character ban" coms from the stalker, instead of doing an "account ban". it invites the harassment to continue. how can they not see that!?!
Hating someone for the games they play is childish "I'm defending the software/hardware my parents bought me" energy lmao. There is no ethical consumption under our current system
@@TylerSmith-oz7ry oh of course of course. I am only referring to the ones involved and if I see one more comment like yours i’ll edit it to avoid any confusion
The thing I hate the most in WoW was always the people with huge egos and unfortunately the game is circled around "look at me I'm better than you" which translates to some people being straight up racist or toxic.
As a female gamer, I appreciate content creators bringing this to light. I’ve been stalked and harassed in WOW for being female, and despite me reporting it, and my whole guild reporting it, the player was never banned. I’d block him and he’d make new toons, in different accounts. He faction changed so he’d follow me around and tag all mobs so I couldn’t complete my dailies (Wrath expansion), he’d pay other players to send me messages. I had to stop playing for a while so he’d forget about me, and eventually my guild transferred servers.
It’s very disappointing and disgusting the shit females get when playing games. It really puzzles me why they get hate. Maybe it comes down to people having bad experiences in life? It must be a really cool, enjoyable and respectable thing to be part of a gaming community that just has fun and doesn’t stand for any shit
I started playing WoW at the age of 12. At 14 I helped lead some pvp premades and by doing so I learned what the term jailbait meant. I was constantly being hit on by older men and pretty much had to speak out to the other leaders of the vent at the time whenever someone would harass me. It really terrified me at the time due to other IRL trauma that I was experiencing and being preyed made me realize that I had to hide my gender in WoW if I wanted to continue playing.
Yup. People complain because they care. They want the game to be better for everyone. Everybody is somebody and anybody is you. But of course Blizzard will just say, "no, you." when confronted with have any responsibility for toxicity. It's gross. I tried coming in as a new player during Legion and only lasted maybe a week before I just quit. The community killed it for me. I was new and learning so I had to deal with toxic players. It sucks.
Speaking as a Black WoW refugee- I’ve played since Wrath and i would definitely say that I’ve seen my share of toxicity throughout the years. One thing that I always dreaded was having to use teamspeak/vent/discord with random raid groups throughout the years. I hated listening to the random racist banter against blacks and sometimes asians. Over time i just stopped participating in any high level content that required voice-coms.
@Chenkov Like for real I never ever heard or saw this shit in wow myself. If people claim that wow is toxic than they need to compare it with other games like league well league us toxic you dont need to look for those things like wow you will have them daily.
I think they are one of those smiley people he talked about, if you think that regular people are toxic, then wait till you see how toxic can get people who are all rainbows and positivity as soon as you say anything negative, or don't fit into their pretentious environment.
I played for 17 years. There wasn’t a day I played that I didn’t deal with toxicity multiple times. The final straw was doing YOLO rated bgs with a group mostly consisting of some guild in tichondrious. We did 12 bgs together and won 10 of them. The last one i did I was guarding a flag for 15 minutes alone while they were losing. I started zoning out and got surprised by a rogue and capped on near the end of the match when we were clearly already going to lose. It didn’t matter that I won 10 games with them zero issues and we were gonna lose anyway, I got bitched out by half the team and told I’m trash and told to delete the game because I’m such a pathetic loser and even after leaving one guy continued to harass me and whisper me with made up bullshit and insults. It was literally crazy town. It was the final straw, I’d had enough of this communities toxic shit, and I quit WoW the next day and been happily playing FF14 since.
this was originally submitted for a dramatime story on preach's channel, but this is my story, didn't feel like retyping it, so here's my story. this story begins the way all good drama stories do, with me being a female player who is friendly, and a guy who couldn't take no for an answer. i had a guy who admitted he liked me, because he knew i was a girl, we'd been decent enough friends for two or so years, did some raids together, messed around in pvp and things. i politely told him no, i wasn't interested, and would never date anyone i met in a game (this is my policy across the board, will not date anyone i meet in an MMO). the person went from being my friend, to teasing, to mean jokes, and then to insulting and harassing me every chance they got. i'd block all of his characters he'd make to bypass me blocking them. i'd report it. i'd report every time they started calling me a wench, slut, or whore, yelling at me if i spoke in trade chat at ALL (usually spamming of calling a wench or misspelling bitch or whore because apparently, misspelling wouldn't get you in trouble, them harassing me for being a "bad player", them just going out of their way to trash talk me in trade.). this was someone who if i heard someone talking about him badly, i'd stand up for him. he wasn't the greatest player, but he was my friend, and i stand by friends. i'd report when he got his FRIENDS to ALSO start harassing me, like one of his friends constantly trying to PM me "i love you", and calling me a bitch, or just doing it even MORE for telling him to stop. i'd report when he or his friends would sneak in to ventrilo's i would be in, because we'd had a lot of mutual friends, and he'd harass me in voice while we were doing raids. (blizzard refuted they couldn't do anything about ventrilo, since it wasn't "in game", but the reason he was doing it was for "in game" harassment, so fuck if i know). i'd report every time he and his friends would make alt characters with insulting and derogatory versions of my character's name in game, then sit in org, pretending to be me, offering to send people nudes, or to fly out and suck their dicks for gear, carries, and other nonsense. i'd report when they made alliance characters, then try to hunt me down to kill me. (i knew it was them, because friends confirmed it was their alliance alts, thanks to bnet.) i reported when the asshole sent me a friend request on bnet with an account name of "fuck you"(bnet friends confirmed it was YET AGAIN, one of his multiple alt accounts). i reported when he made yet ANOTHER alt, begging me to tell blizzard i didn't mean the report (APPARENTLY THE ONLY FUCKING TIME BLIZZARD DID SOMETHING ABOUT THIS SHIT), that he was sorry, and just wanted his hunter account back. i reported the FULL CRUSADE OF HARASSMENT that came from me getting that account suspended for a week, not even banned. (a person who used to be a friend, and used to be in the guild i had been in at the time, she got involved with my harasser despite me warning her, and gave him an RL pic of me(nothing lewd), to which they turned around and posted it to the LARGEST RAIDING GUILD ON THE SERVER's RECRUITMENT PAGE, with a pic of a girl in her bra and panties that i guess they thought looked like me, and pretended to be me applying to the guild, offering to suck dick, send nudes, and to cyber with people if they'd just carry me for mount runs and gear. the guild's GM took it down immediately, and found out who it was, and supposedly dealt with it.) they also to and getting spammed via pm, about what a bitch I was, and how DARE i get his account suspended, and the reason they were doing this to me, was because "you got his account suspended, slut, you need to be punished". i reported ALL of it. and nothing. this harassment from this asshole and his band of jackoffs went on for THREE FUCKING YEARS. not daily, but every other week or maybe there'd be a break for a month or so, but it was CONTINUOUS for THREE YEARS. the real shitkicker to this story, is blizzard's responses. i knew blizzard never did anything, because i'd be in town, and see that asshole and his friends, running their mouths in trade chat, like nothing happened. so, i sent a ticket, demanding answers, demanding to know WHY i was getting ignored, because their harassment and trolling had gotten to such a level on the server, which was low/med population, that i was GETTING BLACKLISTED from all the serious, legitimate raid groups on the server, because that asshole, who had been harassing me for THREE YEARS STRAIGHT, got into a higher level raid group, and since i wasn't friends with anyone in that group, he told his lies, and they spread the word that i was nothing but trouble, and was an attention seeking whore, that only wanted to get free handouts. i NEVER wanted or expected to be treated special because i was a girl, i NEVER wanted to just be carried, i wanted to EARN my place in raids. no serious raid group would take me, because of the slander and lies that my harasser told. when i finally ticketed blizzard, asking for SOMETHING, literally BEGGING for ANY type of a solution, i got the bullshit response of we can't tell you what we do to people, but we do take all reports "seriously". i told them how they'd ignored this harassment for three years, they clearly were NOT doing anything, i begged for a transfer for at least my main character, to a server of my choice, just so i could get away from the years of damage they let go on.(i had 10 characters on the server, all crafters, all linked to help me make gold, and it would have been a PAIN to lose that, but circumstances be damned.) blizzard told me "we're sorry you feel that is the only solution, but we don't give free transfers except in the most exceptional of circumstances. if you think that will fix it, you can buy a transfer yourself.", and marked the ticket as resolved. i was angry. beyond angry. the THREE YEARS of bullshit, getting ignored all boiled over, and sent a ticket, posting the original ticket number, and went on about how can they consider this customer service? i was a paying customer, i'd played this game for nearly 8 1/2 years, and those people had made my game time a living HELL for nearly half of it, from blizzard's inaction. i demanded SOMETHING be done, i was NOT going to be ignored any more, and i would keep sending tickets till this was resolved. blizzard's response? "ok, this has gone far enough. you have had TWO game masters speak to you. we are investigating the situation, this issue is resolved. if you continue to send any more tickets about this issue, we will take action against YOUR account for spamming ticket queues. not just your wow account, but your battle.net account. have a nice day!! :D" i never once spammed ticket queues. i never once submitted multiple tickets. i never ONCE sent a ticket with copy pastes, trolling, or nonsensical jibberish. i never once sent in tickets for issues that HAVE been "dealt with". all i did wrong, was apparently ask blizzard to do their jobs, to understand the stress and anxiety this prick and his friends were causing. after another shitty situation, unrelated to the harasser, occured because a friend helped me get off that server, and then stabbed me in the back for "raid drama"(group 2 bs, main tank's bad girlfriend healer drama, may tell this story at another time), i quit WoW to go play FFXIV, finally having had enough of WoW and the bad luck i ALWAYS seemed to have with finding people to play with in it. i'd been a longtime final fantasy fan, and had been torn when FFXl, and then FFXIV released. this story isn't the ONLY one where i got harassed for turning down dates or other advances of assholes in game who can't deal with the fact a female is playing the game and won't cyber them, but this was the longest, and most insane harasser i'd ever had. the others, and there were MANY, went on for maybe a few weeks, or 2-3 months, then would give up, not because blizzard actually did anything. but not this asshole. it's because of these interactions i'd had with people in game, and blizzard's lack of give a shit, i have NO FAITH in blizzard, and never will. my experience in FFXIV has been a much better experience, not perfect, but i'd take it GLADLY over WoW. i have had one or two issues with guys not being able to take no for an answer, one of them getting exposed online (((NAME MENTIONED, can abbreviate if you want, but he's changed his name since, your discretion preach))) (look up oldbear stormborn, you'll find PLENTY about him), and there has been drama, but i've had no where NEAR the level of bullshit i had happen in WoW. thank you for reading, and i pray NO ONE ever has to deal with something like this in game,
Yeah this is just weird for me. Like why treat girls differently? This goes double if you want to have any kind of relationship with them be other friendly or beyond. All harassment does is put someone already against you.
Your story is wild, I'm so sorry this happened to you :( Tbh similar things happened to me, not nearly as bad, but it was enough for me to turn colder through my twenties just to avoid misunderstandings.
What a great illustration of how the choices of the Blizzard team negatively affects players and contributes to further toxicity. Thank you for sharing.
So true, i love the way zack talks. Even though english is my second language he's still talking in such a comprehensive and easy to follow way. Really shows that he's good at articulating himself.
He says he tries really hard to make sure he does this. He apparently did a video earlier this week but didn't upload because he said he rambled too much and it just didn't meet his standards. He's a really smart guy, who also just wants to have fun and chill playing games.
Imagine. Most people lack the attention span to even watch a guy talking for 40 minutes, let alone doing what you say he did. This would be more than a miracle for them to do.
All I can say is literally every time I go on to FF14 there's someone willing to help me. It's the craziest thing as no in WOW has ever offered to help me in 12 years.
I must be the only person who doesn't experience this in FFXIV nobody even talks to nobody in chat. Rarely ever did i get an answer to a question if I had something explained.
@@Aboleo80 yeah as the person above said Most conversations between ppl happen in FC chat unless they are talking to ppl outside their FC such as a cool bard playing music or something. Try find someone to let you into the novice network
Iv played both wow and ff14, heres my experience. During the old days of wow the community was very busy, but now days games kinda deadish only people you see talking are people selling boosts in classic or mythic+ carrys in retail. And most guilds are dead and only a small amount of active ones. With ff14 i play on siren and its been quite enjoyable. Mentor chat always has someone to answer questions or talk, same with fcs mine has been awesome they even gave me a small house (they owned litrally 1 whole ward) and iv made good friends with couple other fcs i visit n hangout with. Main citys chats always busy. And then theres the hunting groups or trains that do world bosses and rare creatures. Theres so much community interaction and its been great so far.
there's no reason to interact with anyone in world of warcraft outside of your own guild, every aspect of the game can be played within your own little bubble. there's no sense of community and there hasn't been for a long time. When there is no incentive to interact with other players you start seeing everyone else as static background noise, basically everyone that isn't in your sphere of interaction might aswell be bots running around. idk just my 2 cents. I don't play World of Warcraft any longer
This is the side of Asmomgold that people on Twitter completely ignore. And thus their opinion is completely irrelevant to the topic of whether or not you're toxic or not or if you take "responsibility"
Twitter often turns on their own. I may not always agree with Asmon, but honestly no one is going to be entirely unproblematic and that’s just unreasonable to expect. Despite he genuinely tries to give off the air of ‘basement gamer’, he legit does care about others and I think his persona is more about how he feels about himself instead of a lack of care for others. I’m a mom and I get safe vibes from him. Being a good person and trying to be better is more important to me than being a perfect person. The biggest virtue signalers are often the most predatory, so his honestly is better than being non problematic.
I could not play the game for over 2 years because two weirdos in my old guild would DDOS and dox my girlfriend any time she logged into the game. Because we often did everything together, this meant I was being effected by extension. I missed out on the second half of Cata and early half of MoP as a result. Her crime? She was an officer in our guild and she messaged them after raids to ask if they needed help with learning the fights or practicing rotations. These two guys were what we today call "incels" and didn't take kindly to her trying to tell them how to play. So they decided to "put her in her place," and a wave of endless harassment began. This is the worst story out of many, from experiences that I've witnessed my female friends/guildies endure when it comes to harassment. I think that many girls would be happy just to be called "dog shit" or have people wipe M+ groups on purpose and then quit the party. That sort of harassment is a godsend to the stalking and targeted harassment that can go on forever.
This sort of targeted guild behavior has been a problem for over a decade now. Some ten years ago I knew a guy in Maplestory who had an entire guild of over 100 people harass him for months. They'd use the /find command to stalk him and KS all his mobs so he couldn't level. His crime was him telling the leader of that guild what to do in a boss fight. This kind of stuff is really sad when it happens.
@@Meluel we had done that a few times. We did not know it was the guild members at first who were doing it, so they were able to get our IP through the programs/forums we shared. Couldn't really do much about the doxxing (even today, police are often worthless with this matter), and they still found ways to get our IP after we discovered it was them. We quit the game and came back shortly before ToT.
I've been G Kicked for being black before, lol it was hilarious, and around early Wrath, I linked social media and just got kicked. One time I was in with a clique of friends who constantly dropped the N Bomb, and after the run I linked social media and never heard from them again 🤣🤣🤣 I'm old school, my skin is pretty thick, so stuff like that makes me laugh. However; I understand how annoying it can be. Being a black kid on the internet in the early 2000s really just desensitizes you to casual racism.
That's actually funny (bad but in a morbid sense funny).Like how the hell do people have enough time to hate others for skin color like if you would've been a jackass then yes I'd kick you regardless but if you pull your weight what would the reason be?Christ people can be dumb sometimes.
Same. As I got older I learned to not let things like that bother me. Some people project their insecurities in the form of animosity towards that of which is unfimiliar
its good to have thick skin but man wtf is up with these nerds throwing around the n-word. most wow players can't even blame it on being plain stupid and young cuz they're not. tf
Wtf, why link social media? You said you didn't have any real problems with it and even if you did why would you want to be around those people? Doesn't make sense but thanks for the imaginary message
I've dealt with wow stalking before. someone harassed me publicly and privately. he would continue to make new characters to continue this harassment. after 3 months i reached out to blizzard to help me with this. i was sent a crappy "not our problem just keep ignoring those characters" response. issues like this have made me apprehensive to join new guilds or even pug with other people. i have encounter a lot of hatred and ignorance in this game just for being a woman. i know that the best thing is to be silent and say nothing. i shouldn't be forced to feel like this by a game. i should be able to report people that continue to harass me and they should be punished for their actions. ty for talking about this asmond.
That sucks bad, I'd recommend joining a chill guild on Kromcrush if you play classic, I quit a long time ago but I know many guilds are very relaxed (Majority of players are canadian stoners lmao)
@@bucket6988 this happened to me back in mop. I spent most of wod, legion, and bfa jumping from place to place or just not raiding due to anxiety over being harassed. Being a loud female I’m a magnet for crappy people. I ended up starting my own guild and raid team at the end of bfa. It’s been really awesome. My group is funny, chill, and supportive. I love playing wow, but I do think they need to do better. I’m glad so many people read my story and are supportive. Ty
What I know about and kinda grinds my gears is how some guys go super cringe on discord during raids cos there is a woman there and she talks. I mean sure some fun and all but they just go cringe and you can tell she is just being nice and not enjoying it at all, but some of those guys just can't pick up on that. Idk how cos we are all 30yo+ in classic it's not like we are children who never saw a vagina before. I complained about it to an officer I am close with cos I did not come to listen to that and cringe I came to raid, but it's just there. Personally if I was a woman and I wanted to play the game properly I'd never tell anyone I was a woman and I would never talk on discord. Cos if it's like that in a public setting for a woman I can only imagine she gets callers in PMs too. They all may be polite and good chaps but I would just not wanna deal with it cos I came to play the game not deal with advances lol
As a female that are high up the 3s pvp ladder i somethimes get harassed by males that cannot handle the fact i am a female. I don't really care that much about some low life idiot /w me, so i put them on ignore, but they just logg on another server and /w me and delete char and keeps /w me as you told people do to you. I have got a thic skin after playing wow for 14+ years and some scars aswell because of the harrasment i cannot do anything with, even when i report their characters.
Exactly I just ignore people when they are annoying there is no sense in letting them actually make you mad. Nowww if your a streamer then it’s alot harder I imagine so that’s different
this isn't even about having thick skin. you can be strong as hell, and this shit just going on and on and on, it whittles you down, it destroys your mentality, it makes you afraid and anxious of dealing with people... i know for one, i am TIRED of being strong, i am TIRED of having to be "the bigger person" and "just ignore it LOL". i am tired, when i know blizz will do NOTHING, of standing up for myself, only to be PUNISHED by blizz because the toxic little babies can't handle their own medicine being turned on them.... i've been saying and ranting about this crap for YEARS, only to get ignored, and blamed that its all in my head, or it HAS to be something I'M doing, because it always happens to me. i am so done with blizzard.
Doesn't matter if you've got a thick skin or not. Not being able to do anything about it yourself is so very emotionally exhausting. And to find out Blizzard has fostered and protected this kind of attitude amongst themselves just... well, it makes sense why they don't care if you're getting harassed. They couldn't give less of a shit about any of us, they don't even give a shit about their own people.
I've mostly had uncomfortable situations, particularly as a female tank in BC. Like someone in a pug hearing my voice and running ahead of me to tank even though he wasn't spec'd for it and we were already halfway through the dungeon, or when I joined a guild that I liked overall but the MT setting the tone by saying weird things to me, like hitting on me during a raid but in that way that you know he was trying to put me in my place. My first tanking experience in a raid, Kara, was overshadowed by the other female tank getting weirdly sexual right before the raid started (I'm not sure if it for herself, or just a way to make the men like her more?? There is definitely an attitude of if you can't beat em, join em... and I'm sure not everyone really thinks this out before doing so) and making the whole experience kind of suck because of it. Pretty sure it's partly why I mostly kept my mouth shut and didn't really like talking much, plus why I quit tanking so I had a less visible role. I'm still glad I got to tank Illidan, I will always remember it as one of the best experiences in my life. I just wish I felt comfortable tanking again, I sometimes miss it. Being a female gamer puts a lot more stress on everything. It doesn't matter if you're stereotypically attractive or not at all, it's always an extra game of how well you should let others get to know you, especially whether to let them see your actual pictures. We can't just be who we are and just have it accepted at face value like men can where they can be considered unattractive and it's never even mentioned (for the most part) or a reason to be treated differently... I've even shared vids of what I consider absolutely gorgeous WoW streamers/UA-camrs and seen their appearance picked apart. I dunno how they do it, it's hard enough just to exist in game much less be so visible. And it's not just about how we look, but I tried going back to WoW last year and tried to have an attitude of just being myself... but could definitely tell just being nice/sweet makes people just kind of crap all over you, unless you're in the right guild. It makes me wonder if Hazelnutty is able to just be her sweet self in guild, it seems like it.
I think you're looking too much into it. Most people don't care if you're a girl or not. You must've met the weirdest people. Generally, this is just not the case at all. That being said, at the highest level such as mythic raiding, in my experience, having girls in the team is a really bad thing, because people do behave oddly and generally, female gamers tend to underperform a lot more frequently than guys. Dunno why.
@@LunaLoveWoW dude??? Wtf. Link to those statistics or stop pulling them put of your ass. If your raid team can't handle a female playing they're clearly not focused enough to do high end content. It's down right pathetic and any good RL would shut that down even before it got to a point where performance would take a hit. If someone would rather not take females because of their male raiders, than deal with the bad attitude of said raiders, then they're part of the problem and not fit to lead. Judge people on their performance regardless of gender, should be the way to go always.
@@LunaLoveWoW Yeah right, put the blame on her, try to make her feel bad about her experience, then proceed to be a sexist ass while also saying the presence of women brings behavior issues! Couldn't be more part of the problem, could you?
I recently started pushing extremely high keys in WoW, like 20's and above, and I now solemnly do it with pugs because holy shit, the toxicity blizzard created with this system is insane, I had a guy messaging me a day after I logged in telling me to hang myself etc. Think about it, this dude kept my character on his friends' list A DAY after we failed the key and kept harassing me, not the first time too, figured I wouldn't ignore him right away and just logged off because rage is passing, but nope, and reporting does nothing either. Shame some people working on these recent systems are proud of this too. this is just a WoW specific example. Love you zack
mythic high keys are one of the biggest toxic things ever.. only LoL rank games where you have to win to rank up from bronce to silver and you lose cause of a feeding yasou mid are more toxic then this ^^
Quick Thought exercise for everyone... Why does M+ degrade on failure to time? When designing a game or level in a game, the default for the last 30 years + has been, "If the players fails the level, they start back at the beginning of the level to try again." But Blizzard has designed a system where if you fail, let say a Sonic level. You now have to go back to the previous level and complete it before trying the level again.... Why? The simple answer if that the system is designed to long-gate the content for as long as possible. This is why keys are random and the degrade system is in place. Imagine for Mythic Raid bosses that when you entered the raid you didn't choose the boss but a random one was generated in front of your raid. If you failed to kill the boss then the boss would respawn but on HC mode. Then after complete that another random Mythic boss would spawn? How much longer do you think it would take to clear Mythic Raid? The ability efficiently practice is key to improvement. The Mythic plus system is Designed to stop you from doing that. The by product is a toxic social system. The way Tourghaust level unlocks on completion is the way Mythic Plus should work but blizzard is scared of the player based "completing the content" and therefore you and now suck is a toxic social experience. FIRE THE DESIGNERS!
@@Beckonfour Brilliant. The toxic game community begins with toxic game design from parasitic design to systems that incent negative action. The balance of power is skewed in random Mythic+ in that it takes a full party working well to succeed and only one person choosing to sabotage to fail. One person is empowered to trash not just the experience in the moment of their party but the investment those players have put in and the fruit of all the players that came before. How many expansions have we had now that all the effort you put in during an expansion no longer matters? How many expansions have random strangers been empowered to trash the experience and investment of others? How many expansions has there been a lack of oversight and intervention against patterns of negative behavior? WoW is toxic by design, and whether that design is intentional or incompetent simply no longer matters.
Zack, FF14 has responded to your concern buying the game and there is now a easy opinion on launcher new as of today. Crazy they listened right? Or this is what care looks like
Wait, seriously? I haven't logged in today and I own the full version so I don't know if I can see that option, but if it's true then that's awesome, they have no idea how many potential customers they were losing for how difficult it is to buy the game lol.
Has anyone clicked the link? It's probably just a link to the same shitty website, the mog station needs to be integrated into the launcher. Open launcher, click log in or create account. Once logged in should have an option to click play or store.
I used to play a druid healer back in legion. When people started doing mythics and the people in my guild did as well and keys, noone would invite me , cause I was a druid. Nobody would give me space to learn and play. I didnt have any friends who were kind and understanding. All i heard was = bad dps, bad hps, no raider.io = noob, we hate you. I quit for that reason and i cant see myself going back anytime soon
Being "socially awkward" is NOT the same as being socially UNACCEPTABLE. We need to stop calling these jerks "awkward". They KNOW they're wrong, they hide behind "I didn't know".
AGREED. imho w Dragonflight i just found the systems too complex . THE very moment u hit 70 ; people expect you that you did m+ 20 and that is just not ok and far from the truth. Il leave that thought right there. 2) People are not gifted enough by god so they punish players as I observed. For me I come back to play wow because I like the cheesist apects of the game in A modern way :)
My boyfriend, me and his colleagues all started to get back Into wow for shadowlands with the goal to get 2100 in rgbs. Since you always Need 10 people and we were only 10 people it sometimes occured ( of course) that Not all 10 people are available in the evening. But hey you can invite randoms right? LOL. I Was Our Teams target caller because i played ret and everyone agreed that im the Best for the role, since ive got the most knowledge. I think we Never had a random for more than one bg in the group. As soon as they joined the voicecoms they would immedietly leave ( often in the bg) or after the Match, telling me that women shouldnt Do shotcalling. The higher Our rating got the more toxic it became. To a point were we only played when every one of Our 10 man Group was available. Playing wow as a women and especially wow pvp is an absolute nightmare. I really really appreciate what you are doing for the community, much love
Well thought & spoken Zack, as always. Been a physically disabled & female gamer for over 30 yrs... since my late teens. Heard all sorts of horrid / toxic stuff over those yrs & agree 100% on how easy it is to mass-assume or fall into that echo-chamber. We all need to work harder at being less cynical & embrace / understand differences both in game & IRL. Hugs!
While I agree with almost everything...its not just about being female or some minority. I heard so many toxic things about my nationality, my family...you pick whatever you want and somebody said it to me. And I play games for 20 years and do sports for same amount of time. And its the same...it will never go away because ppl are just bad to each other in general but ofc you can make better effort to stop it.
@@mildlydazed9608 I like those archaic words. I'm also a big fan of troglodyte and new renditions of it. Mongoloid too, since I have fair grounds to use it.
Zack is actively sticking his neck out for the community. When others hide behind likes, and RTs, he makes videos and talks about it, he jumps on TW to check Wow, and others. This right here is the clear example of why the Wow community is rotten, at its core; while Zack adresses the issues, others just want a fight with him. BIg thanks Zack for all you try to do for the community, thanks for being the voice of reason when others decide to hate.
"This man here is the clear example of why the Wow community is rotten, at its core" - this reads that Asmon is the reason the community is rotten. Is this what you meant to say? The rest does not read that way.
@@MichelleMills1972 I thought the same thing but I don’t think it’s saying it’s his fault, it’s saying that the community is rotten because they just want to hate on him even when he’s being reasonable.
@@robertwalker7502 his man here is the clear example of why the Wow community is rotten, at its core; while he addresses the issues, others just want a fight with him. you cut half the sentence off...
@@ogbuddah4234 no worries - I figured as much. It is fixed. I thought it would be best if you were informed and could fix it. (your English is better than most native speakers so do not fret that. I figured it was a typo.)
Way back in Wrath, someone whispered me a pretty extensive death threat just because I won the Blue Proto-Drake that drops from Skati in heroic Utgarde. They were trying to convince people to "pass" after instantly selecting "need" the moment it dropped themselves. Anyway, we all needed and I ended up winning the mount. Apparently, that was worth not just a very graphic description of how exactly this person would track me down and kill me but also was worth sending me an in-game mail from SEVERAL alts with pretty much the exact same text. Now, I know there was no way this person would ever be able to track me down, nor was I at all intimidated by the death threat but I did report it. The person got suspended. Idk exactly how long but it couldn't have been more than a day because when I logged in a few days after I had a nice mail waiting for me with some additional name calling and another death threat because I had the audacity to report this. Of course, this too I reported. I kinda gave up on WoW for a couple of months when I continued to see this person walk around Dalaran. How is that behaviour not instantly cause for a perma ban?! And I know I'm not the only one! I've heard some shocking stories over my time playing WoW.
This is disgusting. I played wow in 2007, and GM's would reply to you in-game through whisper and help out with things like this. They just stopped even trying. This is so wrong.
@@ZeranZeran GMs and CS reps are expensive. How many times over the years have we've seen layoffs and we're told "don't worry its not affecting the devs, its just the support teams" ? This is the result. Community by automation and neglect.
@@lacker101 They're not anywhere near as expensive as Blizzard makes them out to be, and all GM jobs could easily be done from home. As of 2020, they are still using a "GM room" at Blizzard HQ to hand out any manual GM actions, according to the tour I was given.. which seems a bit weird, doesn't it? Why do you need to be at the Blizzard building to moderate your game..? Nothing personal, I know what you're saying is true, and Blizzard firing so many GMs is a huge issue; but make no mistake, Blizzard can more than afford enough GM's for WoW, especially in it's current state. They did it all through Vanilla, TBC, and WOTLK. After that, all GM interactions became automated, and useless. They used to actually talk, get your side, go through chat logs, and handle things. It took them like 1 min per person. Its a necessary job; human moderation. Their automated systems are so useless. part of the reason I quit is that not only did the game feel dead, so does any type of trying to communicate with the people working on the game. Lived near Blizzard HQ most of my life, known multiple employees there, (even a few ex GM's!) they had nothing but great things to say. Blizzard was once great, and they can get back there if they get a kick in the ass.
I prefer this channel. Asmongold is a bit of a character (the thumbnails on the clips give that away) where this is more raw(r) and imo feels more honest.
@@saviourself687 it is :) Asmongold is a character. I think Asmongold is Zacks version when he is playing a game, we don't behave the same all the time.
The perfect example of what Zack is talking about here is the players from Latin America, everytime a Latin player joins anything, BG, LFR, Mythic +, etc, people start harassing them, no matter if the player is good or bad, I have a collection of screenshots of people saying bad stuff to Latin players just because Blizzard doesn't care if you report them. Oh and BTW, the 3 servers where Latin players play are located in Central US, which is further away from them (consider East being closer) and despite years and years of post on the forum guess what, Blizz did absolutely nothing, must of the South American players play with PIN at least from 120 - 250 - 350 in a good day, think about that the next time you see a Ragnaros - Quel'thalas player lagging out.
It sucks that you have to play WoW with such difficulties. Now compare this to FFXIV adding oceanic located data centers because people asked for it. Night and day.
Hey, Australian guy here, I came back to wow in late legion and BFA and stricly pugged. The amount of times I heard people in discord talk about Rag and Quel'thalas with disdain truly is shocking. I think a lot of the people that were talking shit don't even know what ping is, honestly. I ended up making my own groups and filling them mainly with people from Rag and Quel'thalas (back in Vanilla-Wrath Australians had to also play on 120-350 ping so I kind of felt a connection). I ended up pugging AOTC Uldir + Eternal palace and 10+ keys with almost all Rag + Quel players. Let me tell you those were the best pugs I have ever had on wow, not sure if I was lucky... There was no raging no weird vibe after a wipe like everyone wants to yell at each other. New raiders asked questions and were answered without any alluding to players skill, sexuality, race or any other thing I expected from 8+ years playing the game. This one Demon Hunter tank from Quel'thas... Oh my god, best tank I've ever seen in ALL of my time playing wow. He was a fucking great guy too. By best I mean any group I had with him succeeded, fast at that. He gave me the easiest M+ Keys of my life. It got to the point of me dreading being in any group without you guys. I think living in the U.S. actually might do something to someone brain chemistry, don't know what or how but man... it's bad.
I've played with some good latin players, and I've played with a metric ton of bad ones. My one point of disagreement here is that it goes beyond ping. I don't care if you're under performing on dps, or missing aggro on an add here or there as a tank, or maybe not putting out as many heals as you should be. There's easy solutions around that, and the dungeons aren't so hard that you need everyone operating at 100%. I'd always give them a chance, but if they started doing really stupid things, I'd kick them. I used to organize guild mythic plus carry runs (main raid tank [me], main raid healer, two top tier raid dps, and one open spot for either undergeared guildies or lucky pug players who would get a free carry) during Legion. For every decent Quel'thalas player, we would encounter 20 who plain wouldn't know what they were doing at all (and I don't mean on 15+ mythics with challenging affixes, I'm talking just basic normal dungeon strategy), and either wouldn't or couldn't communicate with us to adjust their behavior. Running off ahead of the group and getting killed, breaking cc's, casting BoP on the tank while I've got aggro on multiple mobs, running off to drag extra adds into an ongoing boss fight, repeatedly moving into cleave position. Stuff that I rarely ever saw happen with pug players from my own server were very commonplace from Rag and Quel players.
@@-Keith- Hey Keith, I totally understand and I'm with you, I believe in meritocracy if I have what it takes to be in the group/raid let me prove myself, what I'm saying is sometimes we don't even get the chance to do so. There's a ton of bad players in LATAM, yes, but there are some good too, they just don't get the chance and end up grouping with guess who? the "bad" players. I had the amazing opportunity to play RBGs a whole season in MoP with a bunch of cool people from NA and I remember that was the time I had more fun playing this game.
Eh, obviously harassing people for it is bad but if I joined a group and there was a player from certain servers I’d probably just leave the group immediately.
I think the problem is that over a long time toxicity is accepted as "normal".I'm playing League of Legends for like 8 years now and it's one of the most toxic games out there. I was insulted so many times by so many people that I had the same mindset playing it after a while. Like calling people retarded is like saying hello there. One guy starts it and I respond, but I didn't want that to happen, I hate being toxic. I'm a very chill and friendly guy IRL and in other games like FF14, so after 7 years I disabled the chat in lol and it made the game much more enjoyable only getting insulted after matches.
I get it man I'm generally an understanding and non confrontational person but CS:GO makes me an absolute demon lmao. But I feel like competitive games get a bit more leeway for that. I don't really attack people personally but I will mock their gameplay to an un acceptable degree lol. (Get out of our rank 8 game with your cross hair on the fuckin floor) lmao
As soon people accept that is a norm, that is when this mental disease spreads. I don't care people say put on a thick skin, that is all bullshit. It is just an excuse not dealing with it. Why people need to deal with harassment when they only want to enjoy playing a game. This is part blame on game design, the company, and the community. We all human beings, how we treat each other is what makes the world/community. Each person are responsible weather they do or not do anything with this kind of behaviour.
You think League is Bad? Try Heroes of Newerth. The toxicity in that game is almost mentally crippling at times. It paralyzes you to try and consider how sad the people trolling you are in real life
@@famousdev9707 ive just never understood why the rage? Idk i got raged at by children once becauae i said good goal to the other team on rocket league because it was a good goal. Personally im of the mentality that i play games for fun and if i cant enjoy a game while loosing its probably not a game i should play. Games should be enjoyable weither your winning or loosing. To me it just seems childish to get so angry at other people controlling pixels on a screen, have fun thats ehat it all about who cares man
My wife hates going into voice chat on overwatch because almost match, someone harasses her or is disrespectful, saying things to her because she’s female. It’s irritating. As her husband, my job is to cheer her up after the bad harassments, and it’s infuriating to feel powerless in these instances. This has been going on for years. Reporting, I guess, is a deterrent, but if the punishments were harsh enough, wouldn’t the harassment also go away? People would be too scared to say anything out of fear of a ban or loss of money invested. Obviously the punishments are not steep enough, or the effort is lackadaisical, as the harassing happens to this day. It’s not like she has anything abnormal about her voice or speech for these people to latch onto, just that she’s a girl. It’s sad.
That actually isn’t the solution. You can’t punish negative with negative. Especially when they’re incentivized to let those players return by spending money on them. You have to actively encourage and reward the right behaviors.
You are a good man to take her feelings seriously. Too often do women and men alike get subjected to toxicity and instead of getting comfort from the very people they trust its far too common they get told to get over it and suck it up because it's just a game. Overwatch may be a silly game, but how human beings treat each other is anything but.
@@matt566 But a game can't always make up for someone being a dick, It's a game, it shouldn't have to psychologically mould people into better people that don't harrass others. It should just be a quick ban. Simple.
@@joepopplewell680 I think both bans and things promoting good behavior should be a thing in online games. Some people need to be taught good behavior because their shitty parents couldn't be arsed to.
I was in a horde guild in BC where I was called a Latino racial slur (s**c) by a guild mate via guild chat. I reported them to Blizzard and left the guild. Blizzard responded same day inferring that it was guild chat and they were hands off, not sure of the exact verbiage (was 10+ years ago). The guild leader asked why I left and after explaining the situation he seemed to have no problem with it. The next day that same guildee who called me the racial slur started whispering me the same slur aggressively. I reported him and I think he had 24 hour ban. He did it again, I reported and he must have gotten a 3 day ban because he was back that week. I reported it again and left the server. I was so anxious about the situation and nervous he would follow me just to harass. My own experience shows Blizzard cared more about that individuals $15 dollars than my harassment. As a fan of Blizzard since D1, the focus on individuals breaks my heart. I hope they stop looking perceived symptoms and start treating the disease.
Okay, but why didn't you put him in ignore after the first time? Or then again, maybe you did and the guy was using alt. Not defending him, but honestly if a single stranger on the internet calling you names is enough to make you anxious, you really need to get a tougher skin.
@@divolg7981 My input is about his targeted and continued harassment, it’s what Zack asked for. I’m sharing another data point on how blizzard allows harassment to continue when so many other games (FFXIV for example) don’t tolerate it. I think this was a big point of Zacks video and why he asked people to share their stories.
@@divolg7981 nobody needs to justify anything? So what if it's only a single person on the internet, someone who is going through a really hard time in real life is inadvertently very likely to struggle with negativity when using something like a video game as a way to be happy and have an escape. When the escape stops being just that and starts becoming another area where negativity leaks in because of the actions of other people the companies of said games SHOULD be doing something about it when it's reported. Microsoft suspends you same hour for sending shit posts to others on XBLive. Repeat offences increase the suspension duration. All companies should adopt that right. Making excuses that guild chat is off limits is down right fucking ridiculous!!! THOSE GUYS PROGRAMMED THE LITTLE TEXT BOX AND IT IS NOT ENCRYPTED. Stand outside of the box and look at the drivel you're spouting. "Your I'm not defending him but" is stupid and illogical, you've not even thought it through and just jumped to an uneducated answer to someone adding a data point to Zacks current video. These people are the change we need in the industry, calling shit companies out on there shit decisions and ignorance. Sadly single minded people like your self that will be the reason things don't change. Surely if it doesn't affect you it can't affect anyone else right?
Female perspective: Played WoW for 10+ years, I was a raider for all of those years from Wrath till Legion. I had a guild master who would make sexual comments towards me time and time again during raid, the team who was mostly guys would laugh at me. We had two hunters on our team and nine times outta ten The other Hunter would get the loot before me, I was always last to receive anything. I was talked down to all the time like I didn’t know my class or didn’t understand mechanics, harassed and told I should be playing a healer cause “that’s all women really know how to play, they don’t know how to tank.” When my alt was a Blood DK…. I stopped playing around BFA, came back for 9.0 and just couldn’t get into the game anymore. Happily playing FFXIV right now and I’m a tank. ❤️
@@verycoolguy69 Honestly the FFXIV community has been really forgiving, when I queue into a duty or raid I tell them I'm a new tank, and they say thats ok. Usually theres someone there that has done the content at least once and can help. Ive wiped a few times I wont lie. But it never has gotten to people yelling at me and telling me I'm garbage or I shouldnt play a tank. I dont think I'm going to be playing WoW again honestly, I had my fun with it when I did... but 14 is just so much nicer
I started playing WoW 2 weeks before LK release. I fell in love with this game 7 days into my 14 day trial. Around the time of Cata a guildie started harassing me with extreme lude comments. I reported him and put him on ignore. Each time I did this, he just made another toon and would continue with the same stuff. This just seemed to escalate his anger. He was threatening me and my kids stating he would find me and what he would do to me and my kids when he did. A couple of people called Blizz (back then you could actually call them with complaints) and our rival guild apparently was reporting him as well. Since he was on my ignore I couldn't see what he was saying but I was told "you really don't want to know what he's saying about you in general chat". I figured it had to be pretty damn bad when our rival guild is putting in complaints. He was put on a 3 month suspension about many many months of this going on. His first day back he contacted my friend to tell him to make sure I know he's back. My friend contacted Blizz by phone to tell them this and I heard he was banned from the game. I ended up making a toon on another realm and came very close to quitting. I didn't feel I had any other choice but to quit something that I truly loved. As a female gamer we get harassed the moment they know you're a female in real. I always know how the convo is going to go the moment they start with "you're a girl in real" and here comes the sexual comments. Thank you Zack for telling your story. There are many like that. I truly believe that Blizz just doesn't care enough to stop this harassment. So naturally hearing of the abuse that actually has gone on in the office, I felt I just couldn't continue to support a company that treats their employees this way and canceled my subscription after 13 years of playing. Honestly moving to ffxiv it has been a breath of fresh air. I haven't been harassed once so far. Thank you for all your time in making content that's right on the mark.
I'm sorry this happened to you to this extent. During Cataclysm, I had one of my guildies make nasty and lewd comments about me in the same sort of way. Reporting him did absolutely nothing, but strangely enough the best way to get rid of him was to tell my guild leader, 'Look, you kick this guy or I'm leaving'. To my luck, it worked, and blocking the dude in game worked well enough. Then he found me on Facebook. It did last long, but it was deeply embarrassing and uncomfortable. I've since moved to FF14 in recent years, and the amount of other ladies I meet on the game is refreshing to me. I hope it continues to be a safer place for you, as well! :)
@@rhythmauthority5314 it's amazing what people will do when you can't find out who they really are, and even more horrific when they don't CARE if you find out who they are.
It was only through playing male characters and keeping personal information at a minimum did I manage to avoid harassment. There's my female experience in WoW.
@@misterhh9899 Oh, I'm good now. I quit mid-BFA. Recently I picked up GW2 and got invited into a small guild. And since we're small and only about six of us are active, I think they realize we can't really afford to be mean to each other, so I haven't dealt with any harassment yet. I'm even using a female character with a feminine name! We're all WoW refugees, so we _definitely_ know the struggles of toxic gamers. Only one of them is fully aware of me being an irl girl and he's not made a fuss at all (he's also gay so he's likely faced some toxic bozos as well). The others? They'll learn for sure next week when I make my debut in voice chat. lol They've already ran dungeons and missions with me, so they can't say "ur bad cuz ur a girl" because that would be objectively false at this point.
Girl gamer here from Latin America. By the end of Legion our GM needed to step out from wow because of his job. We made a poll for the new GM and this one grown up dude that we thought to be at least a decent person, won. Literally by the next 3 days half the guild got kicked by the new GM, and he was arguing with our youngest male guild member, a kid that was 15 years old (very kind kid btw), writing insults and horrible things. I was on vacations at that time, and as soon as I logged in that day, a girl told me that several other girls got messages from the new GM asking them for their phone numbers, and if they refused he kicked them out. Our entire lovely guild became hell itself. A good chunk of our guild reported him, but nothing happened, great customer service ugh.
I really appreciate you speaking up about the toxicity in the community. You and Preach have really helped me keep things in perspective because it was really overwhelming when info started dropping. I've had way too many really gross experiences in WoW. I shared in a comment on one of Accolonns videos about the guild I left because the guild leader was making lewd comments about me and other women in the guild. That's really just the tip of the iceberg. I left a server entirely because a guy went all stalker on me trying to find me IRL. I quit for almost a year during MoP because I sound younger than my actual age and this guy "likes em young" and just wouldn't leave me alone. I had a really amazing guild in Legion until almost everyone dropped out mid BFA. Trying to find a new guild to raid/do M+ with gave me so much anxiety so I just haven't. I don't want to deal with the toxicity or the creeps.
I feel like blizzard has more pressure than ever to give players quick "wins", so hopefully they make a lot of long asked for changes. Also I'd love it if they worked on some long term things too, like ways to actually deal with people in game who harass you. There are so many wow stream ideas that aren't possible to do because it only takes 1 person to ruin the whole event.
And i think they already had a few chances to give players some quick "wins" but didn't take them. Like with the recent time walking stuff... Like, is it that bad that some ppl are leveling alts to play your game with more? "Yes, Must erase all fun!" Btw How do you choose with which account to comment? Lmao
I'm sorry but i think the priority should be to make the game "better" as a whole, even tho i'm not a game dev Harassment and streamer problems aren't anything to scoff at, but i don't think that should be the priority right now ("x
Doubtfull. Just look to their record, we can't think of Blizzard as a competently run company. If anything they're more likely to double down at this point.
Can you please go back to making deck testing videos instead of making top 10 videos? You were legitimately entertaining with your convoluted combo series.
I played Overwatch yesterday and had someone start raging and telling everyone in the lobby to kill their selves. Not the warcraft community just a different blizzard community. I'm just a guy and it's mentally exhausting to try and put up with the toxic bullshit constantly.
I know this is probably getting lost in the comments and never reaches you Zack, but just wanted to say thank you for all the hours of entertainment you gave me and many others. I played the game for the better part of my life recently let it finally go due to all the bullshit and personal reasons. I'm in a shitty place in my life right now, but the one thing that lets me keep my mind off it are your streams and I agree with majority if not all of your views and comments, you just vocalize the same ideas that have gone through minds of thousands of players, and the fact that some people have the audacity to directly attack you, also making a lot of us seem as mindless puppets in your hands that you just get to unleash on command to push your ideas is just pathetic. Don't let it ever get to you and please, NEVER STOP ALWAYS GOING BIG DICK
I was gkicked once I announced that I was black back in cataclysm Its okay, found another guild soon after but I left the game at the end of the expansion. Thank you for the very lengthy video.
opposite note, we had a recruit in Tomb of Sargaras that kept casually dropping the n word in discord. Little did he know our guild leader was a black dude. He got kicked after like 10 mins into his first raid before even pulling that giant inferno boss (forgot the name).
I had the same thing happen to me back in Ulduar. First time I quit the game for a few months. Makes you question the point in dealing with this in a fantasy game when you play to try to get away from the real life version for a few hours.
Blizzard devs be doing DARVO ; "Deny, attack, and reverse victim and offender". Saying somebody should be fired for imcompetence isn't a "personal attack" it's a fucking statement of fact.
I was an officer in top 100 raiding guild, and we had 1 other guild on our server who raided, to a "high" level. So naturally the talented players from that guild constantly applied and occasionally were invited to raid with us, resulting in the GM and officers of that guild hating us. I stopped raiding in 2018, and I still received hate mail from these people up until I quit a few months ago. (I probably have mail from them right now if I were to log in.) I would have loved an account wide ignore in addition to character. Preferably, not instantly account wide ignore, as I am okay with giving people second chances. But if I have a character on ignore, and I ignore another alt of theirs, a pop up that gives the option to account mute would be great
I'm like a server troll on classic and alot of people dislike me cuz of it and I admit to doing dodgy shit like ganking alliance players that I dislike and tbagging them with my alliance char. And I must say I have legit never seen so much toxicity in a game like classic its even worse than csgo Btw you can get someone banned for going around the ignore function. Funny part is blizzard managed to implement the account wide ignore on classic but not retail. A guild that I hate got me banned because I ganked there chars with my horde account for days so they started messaging my alt alliance account that they didn't have on ignore and framed me that I would message them lol. They got my horde account and alt account banned for 3 days lol I remember the AQ opening and people actually abused the automated ban/mute function that blizzard implemented if you report someone to deny the scarab lord mount... Fucking cunts
Zack, you are truly becoming a much better role model for people I think. You have your fun and play your character on stream, but overall you do have a fairly balanced take on many topics. I will always appreciate videos like this.
I'm not sure if it's exactly what you're talking about in terms of toxicity, but I wanted to share. I'm a boy, and on the spectrum. When I was younger, right after my Dad died, I met a really nice lady on Wow. She was super nice to me, but then she started getting weird, but I had never had a friend as good as her, so I went along with it to keep her happy. I basically got groomed and SA'd when I was extremely vulnerable. She realized partway through how bad she'd look for what she did, so she lied to our guildies and GMs, said I was harassing her. I lost most of my friends: they either believed her, didn't care, didn't stop to ask me, or downplayed it. Some of the GMs last words have stuck with me to this day. "I should have enjoyed it."
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Long vid. Honestly the whole situation is really messy considering the actual company is at war with its self. I don't think that players can ever really have a full perspective on what's going on inside the company, but ultimately it's not the player's responsibility to settle for a shitty product just to placate the devs even if the devs are facing problems. That doesn't justify harassment, and that goes for the players and double for the developers. I see this as just the storm that will lead to the reorganization of the devs and the game. Kind of like a great flood event. Either the game and company will address the issues improve or it will continue to die.
'ultimately it's not the player's responsibility to settle for a shitty product just to placate the devs even if the devs are facing problems.' thank you
Long video but at least not scripted. I like that hands-on approach. What I think must happen? Blizzard must *'for starters'* give Alliance players something as _"insignificant"_ as real, playable, blue eyes, HIGHELVES aka *QUEL'DOREI.* NOBODY WANTED THE VOIDELVES, the many dumb reasons Blizzard threw forward to do it WERE ALSO NOTHING ANY ALLIANCE PLAYER WANTED and so we want the orignal, most traditional and remaining Thalassian Elves as our allys. It started with disrespectful, unfulfished wishes like this, since true Classic, but also since WotLK, that the arrogant & player contemptious behaviour started. I *DEMAND* to be respected as a customer. I am not some dumb cattle that pays regardless of whats happening!
@@FreedomAndPeaceOnly They should probably look into the balance of factions before anything else, doesnt matter what races they add if the whole faction is like 2 guilds still playing.
Zack, I am a girl, I played WOW for over ten years and now stopped with Shadowlands. I was a mount collector, not as good as you, but you were always an idol for me in that department. I was harrassed multiple times. I was called names, I had to hear the same jokes, flirts or comments every day. And I have a really thick skin. A lot of males tend to stalk you, even in your guild. You are nice = for some that means it is okay to claim you, like an object, to obsess about you. I loved my guild members, but those things were a daily thing. I was laughing about them, because else I wouldn't have been taken seriously. I had to deal with this to even be taken seriously as a gamer. That said, I want to say, Zack, that in the years I watched you, I never was offended by anything you said. You were never sexist or abusive towards women. You played a role in a lot of competitions, mean words an all, but people calling the words 'bitch, big dick or whatever' toxic are the real problem. I never felt that you discriminated against women and I find it disgusting that people try to blame you for everything that is wrong with this community. It's Blizzard's fault and it's those people's fault. I like though, that you seem a lot happier since you started playing FF. We all know, and you yourself said, that you did some shit, but this game seems to be at least fun for you, which is great and I hope you will have a lot more fun with it. PS: I have two store mounts, I was spit on, and I was okay with it.
And the fact that a lot of people even use that deliberately obscure term "toxic" is part of the problem. The same people that call words like "bitch, big dick" and so on toxic, are the people that subscribe to a set of ideas that birthed that term. They are the same people that call Asmon or anyone else toxic for liking skimpy outfits in fiction. Why can't people call things by their name? This shit doesn't fix anything, only makes matters worse.
Completely agree with that. Was he or is he an asshole at times? Yes, but he is not toxic. He doesn't manipulate people, he doesn't abuse them, nothing like that. The people living in a bubble are so far away from real life that they feel the need to get more sense in their lives, and that is often times policing other people with ideals and morals that are usually was worse than what they even see before them. All these buzzwords play into that.
@@LittleSparklingStars I personally also didn't have this in FF when I played it! Occasionally a joke, but nothing that severe at all. It's like Zack said, it was always toxic and the obsession and frustration with the game is breeding toxicity unfortunately. But happy that you have a great time!
Maybe it is just my experience, but I used to play in a progressive raid guild in original TBC, and played tactical raid lead in a friend's guild once a week during that time, and in my sister's guild during WotLK as a raid officer... In all those groups I had fun and felt part of a community. In the last 5+ years I have found it almost impossible to find friendly people enjoying their leisure time online, they are behind a miasma of vitriol and impatience. Maybe I'm just getting old; 'something something kids these days'. I know there are still cool people out there, just harder these days.
*My story of harassment:* Not quite vitriol but cost me a lot of nerves over time. Some time in early to mid WoD when I would also stream a viewer (at that point anonymous) from the stream asked me if I'd play skirmish/rated etc with him. It was fine for me because it benefits both players for these goals. And at that point I must have given him my little finger and slowly over time he went for the entire arm. Several sessions later he became too demanding, so I removed him from the bnet and called an end to this. So now he would whisper me with ever more characters or write on twitch as passive aggressive as one could get. No real insults but just an overall annoyance. Since he was never too rude at that point and showed at least some remorse I never put him on ignore. As things cooled off he approached me months later for pvp etc. Same routine again and I put him on ignore. So now he would make new characters to beg/annoy me with demands of not being on ignore. He would harass 2 of my raidmembers (if not more). At some point I told him he should seek professional help and make sure to put all chars on ignore that I could find over his personal guild armory. Now he'd make extra accounts on twitch and harass me, my viewers and of course other guild members streaming. It was never threatening or vitriolic, just absolutely passive aggressive. One viewer once chatted in private with him (on twitch) and he'd tell him he knew my address (which was false) and made veiled threats. I contacted twitch on this, nothing happened. He also got access to the raid Teamspeak and would lurk around under a random name until being IP blocked. Ingame: I reported him multiple times on my behalf. And on alts I would see him post race-baity shit and other political divisive stuff in tradechat to rial up others. In addition for harassing me I reported it everytime (on alts) when I'd see these /2 posts and as far as I know he NEVER suffered any consequences.
them being passive aggressive IS threatening. it's them asserting they have the ability to find you and contact you no matter what you do. it's them showing they can always find some way to get into your life, get into your friend's lives, and do their damnedest to make you miserable till you give them what they want. just because they aren't directly attacking or threatening you with physical harm, does NOT mean it isn't threatening.
Thank you for making this video. I'm a female gamer and started playing wow in 2005. I have put an enormous amount of effort into protecting myself from toxicity and harassment. At first, I avoided getting into voice chat and never revealed that I was female. When I eventually found a guild where I could be myself, I stayed in the bubble of that guild for 14 years. I used to pug a lot, but gradually, my pugging slowed until I had a very toxic dungeon run during Cata. After that, I swore off pugging. In time, I became the guild master, made the rules, kicked out the turds. Other women who found their way into my guild mentioned to me that they really appreciated that the guild was a place where it was safe to be female. There's a pattern that I observed more than once where I would invite someone new to join the guild. They would hang out for a week or two, and then their wife or girlfriend would join. I never asked why these women didn't just join straight off. I don't need to. I already know the answer. Many guilds aren't safe. In many ways, I was lucky because of my guild bubble. My experience was less about what did happen, and more about fear of what could have happened. I honestly didn't realize how much the toxicity of wow affected me until I ran my first pug in FFXIV a few weeks ago. I had so much anxiety about the run that I was trembling the whole time. All that stress for a noob dungeon it's possible to sleepwalk through. After so many years playing wow and expecting toxicity, I find it hard to get used to the idea that people just won't be abusive.
This reads like you were a double agent infiltrating an adversarial goverment and then successfully pulling off a coup. Good job, though sad that you felt the need to. Anyway, hope FFXIV treats you well.
I relate to your post a great deal. I've played MMOs since the late 90s, and also have put a lot of effort into protecting myself from toxicity and harassment, through many of the same methods. I've always been careful to join guilds with either people I know well in real life, or who I've gamed with for an extended period of time before joining. The guilds that I join tend to have an older player base with husband/wife teams and often their kids; guilds who don't tolerate harassment or obnoxious behavior. I've also observed many times where husbands will join a guild and then have their wives added a week or so later after they confirmed it wasn't toxic.
The community is more toxic because more people are upset with the game and they inadvertently vent their frustration in poor ways. The health of the game is indicative of the community response and relationship. Sure, the game will always have toxic players, but the people who generally aren't as toxic are usually more casual and not as connected to the game, and will quit, rather than stay and be mad about it. The FF community is generally less toxic because they're more pleased with the game, they're not inherently salty about shit so they don't promote and proliferate the toxicity amongst the community. Whereas WoW players have a thousand things to be upset about with the game, rightly so, and those who don't quit for one reason or another are more likely to be salty and more toxic because there is high likelihood that they have issues with the game. I don't know anyone who likes Shadowlands, but I know a few people who still play it. That is the epitome of breeding toxicity.
I agree on that i would be way less toxic if the game is more fun. Of course i'm mad if i have to run the same dungeons 20 times to get a piece of loot or getting killed in arena in 0.4 seconds from 100 to 0. All the issues the game have these days and all the stupid stuff blizzard wants you to do just makes u angry about the fact ur in this shit. Make a good game be aware of idiots too maybe and the community will be fine too.
As an outsider, WoW always seemed toxic to me, even in its prime. The amount of griefing and elitism was part of the experience since the beginning. I think it’s only recently that the toxicity has spilled outside the game because of how the player base is treated by the devs, company, content creators, etc.
Another important aspect in my opiniion is toxicity being punished , in FF if someone is being a dick and toxic and he is reported the gms actually do something , meanwhile in wow people are toxic with impunity(that and the game being frustrating to play as you said ) , that is a problem that i felt for years playing Lol too , toxicity running rampant without moderation and the game being frustranting to play leads to a shitshow.
FFXIV has good moderation too. And there is this commendation system which can be a "healthy outlet". I main healer and when I feel upset with how a veteran tank plays, I could just opt out of giving them commendations, instead of talking shit or griefing at them. 😂 Even then, I often feel bad after it when I noticed that my party give me comms. Happened so many times that I'm now just like, "fuck it, take my comms though you play badly".
It's true... any game that we play as a girl and it's known harassments follows. We have to suck it up because well they state, "it's a joke" or "they're joking" just so they can get away with it.
Hey man, I can speak for a LOT of people to say Rest In Peace to your wonderful mother, we are so sorry man, it’s gotta be the toughest thing a son can go through. All the love in the world all the love from your fans is probably just the smallest of bandaids on a infinitely large wound, but we’re rooting for you brother. Personally, I appreciate your real life thoughts and opinions as a breath of fresh air in the online gaming industry, and I value the fact that you’re well spoken whilst being grounded in reality, and your character is relatable and brings immense comfort to so many. We appreciate you bro. Also the following is perhaps a little out of pocket but I remember reading spider man, and aunt may died, and the one above all came to Peter and showed him all the good he had done in his life, all the people he had helped or saved, because Peter said he would give it all back, being Spider-Man and everything, to resurrect his aunt, but the countless thousands he aided brought him some comfort. A weird analogy and obviously there’s quite a high chance that there’s no parallel between your emotions and those of Peter Parker’s in this context, but It just reminded me of your situation, even if you don’t see it that way. Perhaps you feel streaming may have taken some time away from her, or x, y and z, but the amount of people you’ve gotten through the day is uncountable over the course of your career. You’re very valued and we’re all wishing you the best and are very grateful for the time you’ve given us and understand the time you need of course. Thanks again man, keep the glass half full when you can day to day right now.
Your haters show their true colors. They clearly have no idea how thoughtful, insightful, and level headed you truly are. Their loss, cause you are a gem. Stay awesome, my dude!
I would really like it if Asmon/Zach picked some of the comments on this video and reached out to the harassed individuals to have them talk about their experiences on stream, and the action or inaction taken by Blizzard or whichever Company in question. I know it may not be a hugely popular stream, but it would be far more likely to be seen and spread than the comment section of his personal account, and I would certainly listen to the VOD on the Asmongold TV UA-cam Channel.
I've gone through the stages, I'm no longer in denial, or anger.. I'm just heartbroken and disappointed now. I hope they can really make a positive change within the company and community.
During WoD, I had a stalker who had accomplices. They and their friends would find me wherever I was whenever I was logged in and would chase me around, spamming toys, killing mobs, harassing people that played with me too. I issued several tickets, but no action was taken against them. I quit the game after that. Edit: I did come back for Legion with an addon that stopped players from finding me with player search. But, I started losing interest in the game after Legion.
I was tracked down by people who randomly attacked me once, I just told them to leave me alone. It ended up in me having to go offline for months, any new alt I made they would track down. Blizzard? Nah they were oke with it! I still never know what I did wrong. These people were recent invites and who were RL friends of the guild leader they took everything from me... I got the last laugh because after they convinced the guild leader to kick me after bullying so much I took over half the guild with me. They went from clearing HC in WoD to not being able to form raids in just 5 weeks. The last drop was when I just said happy Christmas when logging and got spammed and attacked my sanity broke. Why people are like this are beyond ever since most of my chars remain unguilded out of safety. Meanwhile I was leading HC Archimonde mount gift kill on a weekly they lost the guild they hijacked because they gave it such a bad reputation nobody wanted to play with them, let alone them. Everybody knew on the server I was one of most friendlist, honest and fair people around and to get me mad that much. Kicking me out was their downfall. Nowadays every time I see that guild name I still asociate it with anger and I'm suprised they were never banned. Example: If they were late it always excused, I was late once because of traffic had to listen to them screaming for something out of my control? I was 3 minutes late... YES SORRY! Next time I tell the owners of the bridge to keep it closed because I have a raid to attend. Anathor one: raid started at 20:30 and I always arrived 20:25-20:30. Got called out, half of them always were atleast 5 minutes late and often 10 minutes but never got called out... Whiel I arrived fully buffed ready to go instantly plenty of time a raid that was supposed to start 20:30 started at 20:50 or later just waiting for them to arrive or get ready. The people their names are ingrained in my brain and every time I see those character names I feel disgust in the pit of my stomach. Worst part I see they are still doing the same behaviour till this day.
The part that worries me is that, if Blizzard decides to actually do something about it, I feel like they're more likely to screw it up than not. The worst scenario is getting a bunch of mods who don't accept appeals, have no oversight or transparency, and have zero understanding of nuance or context (e.g. banning someone for greeting a close friend with a derogatory term even when that friend is perfectly fine with it). it's clear that something should be done, but I don't think the employees at Blizzard are the right people to do it.
My worst experience in WoW was in a lfg dungeon, I was the tank, we wiped on a boss, the healer said I was trash and did a vote kick, I got kicked instantly without having time to say anything. I looked at the logs and the healer had not healed me once. The other players just went along with it. I have been playing FFXIV for a few years now and I have yet to experience that kind of behavior there.
I've had people follow me and spam every slur they could think of, sometimes with players from the opposite faction to run up and gank as they're spamming. Then you report those people to Blizzard and the ticket just seems to not go anywhere. Of course it could be worse and stuff like that is easy enough to just walk away and shrug off but it does make the game worse. It's a toxicity that doesn't improve the player experience for anyone and the fact it exists is 100% a failure on Blizzard's part.
Women in Overwatch ranked lobbies would get blasted with sexist comments about their body shapes, sounds of their voice and gameplay based on their gender. I myself would get racist remarks about my accent. Thats just the racist and sexist parts. Overwatch was a bubbling pool of hate, anger and frustration in team chat that ultimately made fun relaxing times playing a video game into a psychatric analysis on why my team mate resorts to telling my other team mate to "rope themselves" or "chop their hands off" for playing mercy. I don't think I've noticed even a tiny change in the toxicity levels in that games voice chat in the thousand hours I've been into it since launch. Its more than just a WoW issue for sure. I hope things got better for you over time dude!
I've only ever received confirmation of action taken on multiboxing hackers. No response to a racist, sexist, transphobic guy that flamed and trolled a Mythic+ dungeon.
To me that's a huge part of the problem, that tickets/reports largely go ignored by BLIZZ but hey if they are having trouble keeping their hands to themselves IRL how can we expect them to care what happens to pixels. I have had people spam me all sorts of fouls things. Everybody is a toughguy from the safety/anonymity provided by the computer screen. Bunch of Keyboard warriors,
Good video. Another female gamer here and have gotten unsolicited harassments my entire life. I get spammed with asking for nudes, people spam messaging me, and trying to be very touchy feely and then complete horrific behavior when turned down. On another note, I've noticed more and more if you say you don't like something someone else does, they turn it into a personal attack on them. You can't give honest opinions on a topic without the other party deciding that you are attacking them. Not liking something does not mean you don't like the person. Those things aren't in anyway connected.
I recently unsubbed before the last patch, but i was in a guild that was run by a woman and some of her friends male and female were officers. There was never any sexual jokes towards anyone in discord during raid nights. You would get joked at for just about everything else but sexual harassment was not tolerate in that guild. Its was nice because i been in primarily male run guilds and its normally quite the opposite
I'm not a lady but I frequently play with several. My younger sister and a close friend of mine being two of them. The male gaming community mindset is terrifying. My sister refuses to use voice in most games we play if randoms are involved. My friend has an ignore list twice the length of my 15 year long friendlist (at least 30 names on there) from just playing one year. They both use names that are not typically female as to not be discovered as ladies but it's unfortunately ineviteble that someone who knows them from the group refers to them as she or her at one point or another, most of the time when this happens, private harassment ensue. I've always thought this was gamer culture in general but after being part of the FFXIV community for about a year now I am under the impression that it's not the case. I might be wrong, I am not exactly a prime target for sexism or racism being a white dude but I am under the impression that FFXIV has carved most of that toxicity out of their community somehow. But you are absolutely right, wow is very problematic to play and feel part of the community as a female.
Being a girl its always been hard to play MMORPGs let alone any online game. I've had to lean more into more androgynies names over the years to avoid the sphere that is the middle school stunted mentality that permeates gaming in general. It's been hard to find girls in gaming to avoid this due to those spheres always working their way into daily life as a female gamer. The Keyboard makes anyone into a GOD. This wont change until the systems between players (chat systems, report systems, general chat channels, etc. etc. ) are inherently anti gross/troll. Obviously the companies that make our games need to stop being dumbshits and start being gamers again. "something about Xerox something about marketing people" - Stever Jobers
While you're correct about alot of your post, there's a sizable percentage of the female population in mmos who enjoy alot of this attention, positive or negative, because they dont get it irl because they arent very attractive or have low self esteem or any number of other reasons, and they can be downright hostile to other women like you, because if you happen to join their guild, you siphon away attention from them, while the idea of a girls only guild with more positive vibes is great, try to form one, i dont expect it to be successful without you being a famous streamer yourself
Been playing WoW since TBC. Always thought that Asmon was this goofy wow guy that I never watched or followed. Some random loot goblin who makes funny videos that I never had interest in. But this year I started to follow him and watch his stuff. From wow stuff to D and D, playing other games or just talking and found him to be very reasonable, intelligent and person who uses logic and mostly thinks before he says something. Much respect and love. Great vid. Keep it up.
Hey Zach, I know this is not the appropriate video and you may never see this. I just heard about your mom and I wanted to express how sorry I am for your loss. Know that you have a massive family and community. Not just with viewers but with other streamers and wow players. I never saw your mom on stream or watched videos of her, but if she was able to raise such a thoughtful guy, she must have done an amazing job. Know that she lives on through you everyday of your life. You are her pride and joy and im sire of that. - just another viewer who cares
When a business is no longer interested in hearing what the customers have to say then your only option is to move on, there is almost always an alternative. When you complain that something is bad but then keep on paying for it you're sending the wrong signals.
I'm a woman with a rather masculine voice, and as you might imagine this has gotten me a lot of comments from the community. It's honestly exhausting to hear the same shit again and again, "only guys on the internet" "if you're a girl, prove it" "show us nudes and we'll believe you". It's at the point that I have a complex about my voice, and I dread introducing myself to new people because of the childish attitude from this community and most others.
@@Ge01O I'm the same. I used to get shit all the time from people asking if I was a girl because I have a deeper voice. Yes, so? If they keep being annoying just block them. Problem solved. It's not exhausting rofl.
Can't ever recall a time WoW was known for its stellar community. Twitch trolls isn't something I'm familiar with, but harassing people in their own streams certainly seem like something toxic people would do, so that adds up. And Blizz/Activision are literally one of the worst gaming companies right now so they got nothing to be proud of. Their refusal to acknowledge any fault is just evidence of their incompetence. Maybe the Devs and community deserve each other.
I have read a lot of the comments from other female players - it’s upsetting and mind blowing to see how many stories are similar to each other, similar to mine. Harassment, stalking, threats, explicit unwanted sexual content said and sent to us. Having to change names, leave guilds, not talk in vent, transfer servers, quit the game. Damn … just damn.
Everybody gets crapped on every once in a while. it's a part of gaming. The only difference is, the guys don't complain about it as much. Most of the time if you fire back with something quick and witty, people will leave you alone. I don't care for people that shit on others in games, but i don't feel bad for people who don't stick up for themselves either.
This is more of a general complaint about the community. I felt a tremendously greater amount of toxicity with Shadowlands from the community than ever before, and I'd been playing since Vanilla; particularly with pugging regular dungeons. Virtually every single dungeon run I did (and I probably did at least 2-3 a night for weeks) was filled with people who only wanted to run and clear the dungeon at breakneck speed by trying to skip every, single, mob pack in the dungeon. And god forbid somebody accidentally pulled one of the mobs because then you would get fucking chewed out mercilessly for causing the SLIGHTEST inconvenience with the dungeon run. And I'm not talking about those extra mob packs that are obviously just there in the distance for background padding, but the ones right in the middle of chokepoints or ones that aggressively pat or something. And honestly, I wouldn't really have cared at all if this happened with groups, specifically tanks, who were obscenely overgeared and just churned through stuff, but 90% of the time it was with tanks who were dogshit, tunnel-visioned, and under-geared who would try to do all this aggressive skipping, chain-pulling, and bull-rushing ahead; then of course promptly blaming everyone else in the group for screwing up. I get that trash mobs suck but you know what sucks more? Having to keep corpse running back because every moron wants to shave off 30-45 seconds per mob pack and treating every regular dungeon run like it was a fucking Mythic+ and we were on an extreme time crunch.
this is the reason i stopped doing dungeons generally in wow whenever i played, and especially whenever i play a tank myself. No room for error, going too slow is bad, not being experienced in the dungeon is bad...can't do anything right if you're new to a dungeon and you get shit on for it. so nty, i'll mount farm the dungeon 1 or 2 expansions later.
I came back to WoW when Shadowlands launched and left for this exact reason. I never understood if those people were having a bad day or always behaved like that but I got so sick of it I just never logged in again and let my subscription expire.
@@merpiderp Perfectly said. Going too slow? You suck. Being cognizant of healer mana? You're shit. Pulling conservatively to learn the dungeon and boss mechanics? You're garbage. Razor-thin or nonexistent margins of error for regular dungeons like they were world-first raid kills or some shit. Absolutely insane. I don't know if that's just a symptom of the game being around for so long that people *think* that everyone should know everything about the game, mechanics, and be smooth and confident in every role or what. This stuff always happened once in a while in the past, I remember it happening sometimes in Legion too, but it was the exception not the rule. With Shadowlands, that shit just got cranked up to 11 so much that I did the same as you, pretty much just gave up on all pugs and would just farm achievements, mogs, and mounts instead.
Bro the people who have to do everything as fast as possible and act like they don't have any time on their hands whilst playing a fucking video game do my head right in. Like clearly your free time isn't that valuable if you're spending it playing WoW, you don't need to do everything at world record pace, slow down and allow yourself to enjoy the fucking game for gods sake.
you are not the person i thought you were. sorry about that! I left wow for FF mostly because the community was toxic AF. i was playing both but one day i saw someone post something emotionally vulnerable in ff chat. every one was nice and understanding. and then i thought of wow general or trade chat.... then my mind was made up.
Yo just a random here but I needed to say... People that can dismiss their projections onto people are gold. You are gold, 24 carat. Wishing you all the best.
As a girl who has played World of Warcraft for seven years now (recently unsubbed due to the controversy) thank you for addressing this issue with toxicity and harassment especially towards women, which I find often goes under the radar. WoW was the first game where I ever used voice chat, knowing that communication was important for raids. I distinctly remember the first time I turned on my microphone, after my guild members begged me to talk, that the first thing they did was mock me. "Isn't it past your bedtime, little boy?" I swear, those words will be burned into my mind for the rest of my life. I was only fifteen at the time, but I panicked and said I was eighteen so that they wouldn't think that I was a young boy. This, of course, made them believe that it was me giving them permission to say suggestive things to me and ask me for pictures of myself. No matter what I was doing, even if it was just running dungeons completely by myself, I'd get whispers from guild members harassing me. After that, I hopped guilds, experiencing similar issues in every single one. It had gotten to the point where I had considered transferring servers because I had been in every single guild on the server, but I knew the harassment wouldn't stop, so I took a break from the end of Legion until the last patch of BfA, where I came back with a more raid-focused and serious mindset. I joined a guild that had been progging on mythic Nyalotha, but hit a wall when their raid leader was poached by another guild. Having just come back to the game I was glad that I had been able to get on a raid team so late that had progged so far, and I stayed with them until the start of Nathria. They still didn't have a raid lead, and I understood the mechanics of the raid very well, so I tried my best to raid lead and shot call since no one else was stepping up to do it. However, it was only when I started talking that others in the raid thought it would be best to talk over me, with my directions always going completely ignored. I often had to raise my voice in order to get others to listen to me, which gave me the "angry woman" label, earning me even less respect. I brought these issues to the guild master, who pretended to understand my plight, assuring me that the problem would be addressed and that he would get others to listen to me, and that the worst offenders would be spoken to. So he called a guild meeting over Discord to discuss that, along with some other issues that had been going on with the guild. As soon as he began to talk, he changed his tune completely, telling me in front of everyone that I had no right to demand to be treated differently from everyone else, and that there was no need for me to raid lead at all. He humiliated me in front of 30+ people, undermining any shred of authority I might have had. I felt completely disrespected, and I knew that this wouldn't have happened to me if I wasn't a woman. I immediately left the guild, and in the last guild I was in before I quit, I was simply known as "the mute". It's better for me not to say anything at all than try to take things into my own hands, because this community is convinced that women don't know how to play World of Warcraft.
Hey :) Woman here as well. Officer, at times RL and loot master in the guild I'm in in classic. Seems to me you have hit some really bad apples and the GM in your last guild seems like a real jerk. Did your guild have a designated RL at that point? Might have helped a lot if you officially got the label as it would also give you authority. I know from our guild that we never let normal raiders dictate or shot call too much in raids as it can lead to pure anarchy very fast. Is very important to keep the chain of command clear cut. Just to make it absolutely clear, I'm not blaming you when saying that. Not at all. Just thinking you might have had more success with these asshole if you had been given the proper rank
To my experience (as a man), “chain of command” works relatively well in Mythic guilds, but not in Heroic / Normal. Even so, when Mythic progress hits a wall for a few weeks, your ability to lead / strategize will be questioned. It’s inevitable. This is not the IRL army :) I think the important bit is that the feedback [you receive] is respectful and constructive. Sadly this is rarely the case, and it saddens me that so many women are abused online :(
I (M) have been friends with a woman I met on WoW 3 years ago now. Never once heard her voice, but I know she is female as she has never once done anything catfishy. She said she had her reasons for never once speaking. I assume her story is not so different from yours in why she has opted to never speak in voice. Though I wish she was comfortable with the idea of being able to speak with I and other friends she has known awhile, we have never pressed her about it for this fact we know something happened perhaps like your story. It's a real shame that the wow community has been grounds for such sexism or general rudeness.
@@Asivah I totally agree with you, and don't worry, I wasn't trying to take the role away from anyone else. We had a raid lead for Heroic prog on Nath, but once we got into Mythic our RL left the guild. I stepped up to shot call for one raid night, and a few of the members in the raid whispered me afterwards saying that they liked my leading and that I should message the GM to make it official. Just like he said he understood how I felt when I was being harassed by people, he told me also that he thought I would make a good fit for the raid leader position, and I was given an officer role in the guild. But then when I brought up the harassment later down the line and he told me he'd call a guild meeting for it, he acted like he never said that he would let me raid lead (even though there would be no other reason why I would have been promoted to officer otherwise)
@@Lucario997 holy shit well that just made the whole thing even more crazy and ridiculous O.o wtf... Really sorry you had to experience that. Those people were the lowest of low, but please don't give up completely on people in games. I promise you that there are good people out there. Personally I won't touch retail again, but have had a blast in classic. And there are many games with far better communities out there
Thank you for this video Zack, it needed to be said. I started playing WoW when I was 14 and I've learned that to protect myself, I have to stay as hidden as possible to avoid harassment. I remember guildies, raid members, friends of friends finding out I was female and harassing me, even when I was underage and they knew it. I was asked for pics, asked if I would get on voice with them, and hounded ceaselessly for attention. I remember one guildie who did this for months, but the moment he found out I wasn't white he got mad at me for "leading him on". As a teenager I didn't have very much self worth and WoW made it so much worse. I met someone so toxic in WoW when I was 17 that they convinced me to give them my number, and he got so controlling that I would get 30+ missed calls of threats and guilt-tripping if I was somewhere he didn't know about. It was stupid of me to give him my number at all, but I was freshly in university and not adjusting well, and he convinced me that he was trying to protect me. I left WoW in WoD and have never looked back. I got back into your content again when you started playing FF, and this video made me realize that I'm still protecting myself. I'm happily married, but in most online spaces (including Twitch) I share accounts with my husband and use his username because it's more masculine and doesn't draw attention. Harassment online is a real problem.
My example gets dwarfed by most of the stories here, but I think it’s indicative of something that had plagued WoW since day 1. When Classic WoW came out, there was a lot of optimism in the air. That first week was amazing. I joined a guild on Stonepine EU, the GM didn’t come online anymore, so we created our own guild. However there was this one guy who was just an asshole the entire time. Even though I was the GM of the new guild, I couldn’t really remove him without tearing the guild apart. Eventually he left for a more serious guild and tore a big hole into the guild. His attitude was very indicative of the WoW communities worst traits. Elitism, toxicity, indiscriminate hatred.
I don't have any personal stories, I'm pretty lucky with having a deep voice, but one reason I stopped playing WoW back in Wrath was how often I'd get in a pug, a person with a feminine or childish voice would enter voice chat, and immediately they'd be pounced on with all sorts of misogynist comments. I had a healer friend who was the best healer I ever played with, and she would never talk in voice chat in the guild that was full of her personal IRL friends and her fiance because of how many bad experiences she had. People using "autistic" and "cancer" as a general insult also got to me in Legion times. My wife is autistic, I am ADHD, and my dad has cancer. None of us are your punching bags, women deserve to be able to talk in voice chat, and these jokes aren't funny. And Blizzard doing nothing about it is why no Blizzard game has ever been my favorite game for longer than a few months. I love WoW, I love Overwatch, I spent a lot of time in HotS, but I always just left because of how often chat would fuck things up for me.
I agtee with you fully about using ADHD and Autism as an insult. It's really bad and not ok. But I always felt like "cancer" is actually an insult that expresses sympathy for people with cancer. It's used as an insult because cancer is a horrible and bad thing that no one should endure. Also I hope your dad kicks the cancer's ass and recovers
Why are you taking that personally? Nobody is specifically targeting you and using you as a punching bag like you say. The world is full of assholes whether you’re on a game or not sometimes you just have to learn to ignore people.
Having to play male characters and act male really blows when playing online. You're constantly pretending to be someone else out of fear of the harassment you ultimately get having dared step into your local male gamers turf. This shroud only lasts so long because you also want to see what the game has to offer and making friends is a part of that experience. You want to raid? You have to talk. VC, vent, discord, etc... Once that is lifted you're constantly getting whispers from "friendly" guys who just want to push and hit on you. It's never any different. They ask for more info than they need, try to get info to talk off the game. Constant PMs, drunk guild members hitting on you nightly, the way they address you. The list goes on. It's so fucking annoying and it's ruined so many aspects of the thing I love. My final day in wow was sometime last year because my guild leader found out who I was and proceeded to badger me and spam my shit asking way too personal stuff because he felt like he could after I opened up a little. Blocked him, uninstalled wow, and deleted my launcher. Never again. So many times i've thought I've finally found that right space in a guild only for it to be ruined by people you trust. It's also poured into my real life with fellow guild members i've wanted to meet in person only to be assaulted by one of them. I went back to FF for a little while but i just don't want to make any friends because I don't trust anyone and yet again feel like i get to miss out on things due to it. Anyway have fun reading the word vomit to anyone interested. I love your content Zack. Stay good.
Fellow female gamer - FF has been great for me as there are so many more women in the game. It's the first game I've played with no harassment and a friendly mixed gendered space which makes me feel like my gender is irrelevent, how it should be. If you want to give it a try with a fellow female, I'm on Light Lich server - pm me if you want :)
That's crazy...Jesus people online suck I read this all and it reminded me of a friend who used to raid with me in FF 14 and she was our Astro. All the guys bombarded her with messages, wanting to fall asleep in Discord with her, buy her raid stuff, wanting her to go on cam etc it goes on, one of the guys got her phone number since they lived in the next state over and the guy literally would not stop. She talked a little bout the general location of where she lived but not the street and the guy was texting her going "i'm in your town wanna hang out??" like 10 times til he called her and left her voice mails of him yelling into his phone, was so messed up. Her and I still talk but she doesn't play FF anymore we just play Dead by Daylight because there's no voice chat and we have our own personal discord because the harassment was so bad.
Sorry for the experience. My current FC in FF14 is one of the biggest on our server and the leader is a female along with her boyfriend. One of the FC officers is also female and we have a few other female players that are quite active in the fc, some more than others. A few of them have participated in raids or farming events with the guys using the FC discord and it's always been a positive experience all around for them, at least from what I have seen. I would definitely encourage you to keep it up in 14 and don't feel the need to pressure yourself to make friends or find an FC. Been playing 14 for 3-4 years now and have only been in this FC for 1 year, solo the rest of the time.
Never had this perspective. Some of the greatest friends I made on WoW were chicks. I understand clearly now, I was playing with them the whole time. Thank you.
I killed a mob in BCC and then just as the mob died I got a party inv, mob was dead so I declined and flew away. This waock flew after me spamming to kill myself. Ignored all the ats this person was going on spamming me to kill myself. I even talked to this person's GM and this GM told me to stop being a Karen, 😂. Made a ticket with print screens and names. Nothing happened to this person. Spammed me the very next day I logged on. Dedication.
I'm new to your streams. I've played MMORPGs since UO, so roughly 25 years? I'm a dude in his early 40's. I don't watch people play video games, its never been my thing but I like you, I recently got in to FFXIV and if I'm being honest, I haven't had this much fun and enjoyed an MMORPG since vanilla WoW and that was a long fucking time ago. I've been chasing that white whale for years and I think I finally caught it. I'm kicking myself for not getting in to FF sooner. Anyway, I enjoy your streams for a lot of reasons - they're pretty god damn wholesome and its enjoyable to see someone legitimately enjoy something that I enjoy. Especially someone who had such a long "career" in another highly popular MMORPG. Keep doing what you're doing man. Remember, we're not married to a specific video game. You're also attracting a new audience with FF. I can't imagine the type of harassment you content creators have to go through on a daily basis and it sucks. Any other job wouldn't tolerate that shit but this job is kind of a contracting job in a sense. Anyway man, I enjoy your videos. Especially these ones where we get the "real" person behind the entertainer. Keep up the good work
I learned very quickly to not talk to people and ignore chat, whenever on voice chat to not talk either. Mostly in overwatch I stopped joining chat even in ranked, due to being blamed for losses and other things. In wow I’m not the best, but I try my best to learn new maps make sure I’m playing right so I get a fragile ego to the point I mute everyone who’s not a friend. I’ve had a lot of good experiences in wow. I love the guild that I am in, and appreciate them a FUCKTON. They make it a safe space so it was nice to be a girl gamer and have that not matter and to just have fun. But it would be nice in a game where I can be a girl and I don’t have to mute or block anyone. Will dream. Also, been binging your tv vids. I actually finally got into fixing after 5 years.... yes 5 cuz fucking crating things is a bitch and they need to fix it. But it was fun keeping up w u. It’s been a nice experience on there too. No mutes so far lol! But I love wow. It has given me strong roots in my art. I saw lich king and was told it was a drawing and I realized I wanted to draw for them. Even keeping a flyer for hiring since 2006 and I still have it as my goal. All my art is medieval or fantasy, and it’s still my dream to work there. So seeing the allegations.... and finding... what they did... gives me a lot of mixed feelings. Taking a break on wow.... but I’m not going to stop drawing it and I will still pursue my art dream because it gave me the inspiration. Also am drawing your ffxiv char, I posted a sketching Reddit, I like to joke. Lol. So thank you for saying something is gift when I finish
God I remember the times when I went to bed crying almost everytime I played Overwatch lol I just want to play a game man, if I wanted to remember days of being bullied by guys I'd just go to school reunions
Yep chat is never anything constructive or helpful just some guy yelling about its everyone's fault but his that the team lost and he is hard stuck as a bronze dps.
Let's be honest, in Overwatch it's all about performance. If you're doing a great job and the team is winning, nobody is gonna complain. If you're doing badly and losing, some people will go berserk, and trust me, your gender does not matter, they'll go crazy with insults no matter what, just the insults would ofc be different.
To me it's practically impossible to interact with anyone on the internet at large and games in particular from a geographic standpoint -- namely, sharing insights from my cultural point of view. It's essentially become a common meme or just an outright acceptable discourse to fulminate me based entirely on the fact I am from Israel (or that I also happen to be Jewish). I am literally incapable of bringing up the fact of where I was born and raised without instantly instigating a heated political discussion at best or a barrage of hatred at worst. There is nothing I hate more than pulling an identity card to absolve me of criticism -- but the fact of the matter is that I just want to play video games and have a fun community experience, and whereas other can relate experiences from Canada, or France, or Germany, or wherever, I am pretty much forced to never really mention anything about where I come from, lest people immediately jump down my throat about a conflict I never wished to be part of and honestly turned to WoW to escape in the first place.
Here's the thing, the people like me who don't care about where you're from or don't care about Israel's issues are the ones who just... don't say anything. So naturally most of the comments you'll get about where you're from will be negative in nature. If we were in a dungeon and you mentioned where you were from, my response would be "cool, now let's pull that pack over there." I'm sure I don't get it nearly as bad as you, but I will say that when I mention to people that I'm from Canada, it often gets followed with a bunch of comments or jokes from Americans about how terrible Canada is and how we wouldn't exist without America's military muscle protecting us. Very rarely will people respond positively to hearing about where you're from, unless they live in the same state/province as you.
my only question would be, do you believe in what your government does with going after palastinians or other hot topics? if not, then hey, we're cool. but if your personal views are as such that believe people deserve harm, then yea, i'd rather not interact with you, but i wouldn't hate on you if that was the case. it's the same thing with people assuming all amercians are gun toting, idiotic, racist and sexist assholes. not all are that way. i give the person a chance, no matter what, don't care where they are from.
@@nikkonikkoshite Here's a better question for you: why does it ever have to come to that discussion in the first place? I didn't come to Asmon's streams, or log into the game to talk about politics and have to constantly defend myself against other people's inquiries. The only way you would ascertain such a thing is by bringing it up in the first place. You speak about "condoning or condemning", but why must you put me (or anyone else for that matter) in a position where this line of questioning is at hand? What the fuck happened to just playing games and having fun? Why is literally everything politicized nowadays?
@@Hg-1-13 whoa, dude, take it easy. all i'm saying in short is, i don't care where you're from, as long as you don't advocate bringing harm to other people or engage in racist, sexist, or any homophobic behaviors, i would be your friend if we ever met. that's ALL i was saying.
So I've been with WoW since day 0(was a beta tester).. got the grand marshal title, the nice statue on their 10 year anniversary, AOTCs, and all that good stuff. I will say that in the past few expansions I have been saying that the game needs to reach its ending. The story has been going for quite some time and would be good to reach a ending so they can fast forward a bit and start a new game(WC4 and then WoW2), although now that most of the original creators are gone this would now worry me. And then there is my whole theory on how Legion, BFA, and Shadowlands is going a bit like the last 3 Star Wars movies. Anyway the current state of the World of Warcraft needs to reach a ending and give some closure because of how the story has been going, to give some breathing room to let them make a new game, and also to give us some time to enjoy some other things(I know some already do, but with how they have some of the systems in the game, it can make it hard for some people with lives outside WoW to do some of the things like keeping up on raiding and such).
Had a friend of mine during Cata and MoP organize small Ulduar runs for the chance of getting the mount, my friend is female. And without fail the first 20 minutes of trying to form the group was spent trying to weed out the people who could not handle a female being a raid leader and in charge of the run.
I don't know if this qualifies as harassment, but If you friend someone's character in-game, you can track them without them knowing. There's no need for the other player to confirm or anything. I've always found that ... unsettling. I can be questing alone and then someone will whisper me about what I was doing or where I was 3 days ago at 7PM and I'm just like ... "Who the fuck are you and why do you know that". It's happened quite a few times even, though so far it's never gone too far. I don't like that. You can't block them until they talk to you, which "Hey they're just creeping on you" but like ... If they did start harassing me, they could easily create a new character, add my character and start over.
This happened to me a few times. I was overleveled in zones basically mining or herbing late-night or very early-morning on a NA server. When I asked them, they all had pretty much the same reply. They were trying to find out if I was a bot or not. Bots now have responses if you ask a yes/no question. So these guys often ask something that can't be answered that way. If they do get a simple yes/no, they'll report the bot or it helps them build up a list of names they can forward to Blizzard - not that they'll do anything about it.
@@mil2k11 I play on Moonguard so I don't quite think they're simply checking if I'm a bot lol. Some people do add me secretly and just sit on that for a while. Then one day I'm doing Molten Core for fun and surprise whispers happen. I don't social much so it's not a big deal for me. But I can definitely someone harass someone like that and there's almost nothing you can do that I can see.
Blizzard needs to STOP with the design which milks every gameplay minute out of players. In other words, stretching gameplay out unnecessarily. WQ's are a prime example of this, same with dungeons that are just ridiculously packed with mobs that might suddenly 1-2 shot your ass. When everything starts taking needlessly long it starts to feel like work, boring work. It has been like this since the start of BFA, i'm happy blizz is finally being shit on, this will hopefully compel them to actually make the game good again. Oh and we need way more slutmogs for all armor types
Being a gay man and existing in the WoW space has exposed me to some of the most volatile hate speech ive experienced in any online game. I cant try and find groups in LFG chat unless I want to bear witness to some of the worst discourse and slurs that exist.
And faggot is just used so casually that even when its not directed at you when your the gayguy in the corner its just very yikes. I play a text based mmo not WOW but the forums on there after they changedthere logo to the pride logo was very yikes, rainbows be hella offensive apparently. Glzd to say though the only direct harrasment i facedfor being gay that person was fedded (plzced in the in game prisonwhere the only thing you can do is talk about your fed case) and given a chat ban. Some people get all up in there titsabout any kinda moderation in games but i think its time weaccepted somepeople are infact shitty people and need to bemoderated because they dont have basic human decency.
Which LFG chat are you trying to join in WoW, where the first thing you have to announce is that you're gay. Getting into any LFG that needs discord just want to run that instance as quickly as possible not abuse people for anything other than shit game play
@@zoons6323 its not about announcing im gay its about joining lfg and being inundated with homophobic slurs and all types of discriminatory language, so i leave the lfg cause i dont wanna be exposed to that shit constantly
@@hyperactive10101 So what you're saying is 'the slur and worse discourse that exits' you heard in a LFG that was not aimed at you. Must be playing a different game that I have been for the last 12 years
I appreciate this video. As a female gamer, harassment happens all the time. I've recently had to change my battle tag to a random generated tag instead of my original gaming nickname which has always been "DaniGirl" because I couldn't handle the rando's adding me, spam messaging me, and asking for nudes. I also don't play competitive Overwatch with randoms anymore because I refuse to use a mic. I would get harassed at least every other game. If we lost it was always my fault, but only because "I'm a girl". I really prefer not to join guild discords because I really would get "in game" stalkers sometimes even from guildies and its so utterly uncomfortable. I truly hate how much I have been told "I bet its nice to be a girl in gaming, guys will give you any items you want or carry you through dungeons, raids, and pvp." I'm not dissing on any females who do play that way, It's just absolutely not the way I want to play the games I enjoy.
ua-cam.com/video/5n0MOAfelSI/v-deo.html
Honestly it's bad enough to be around toxic gamers as any gender, but I couldn't imagine being a female gamer. Just because of all the extra bullshit you have to deal with. I've heard women instantly be called bitches and sluts as soon as they mic up and shit man, they were just trying to capture the objective too, my god.
I wish it was as easy as finding a reliable premade, but we all know it isn't. Shame that people are so shit.
As a female gamer as well, I too can vouch for this. I don't play any pvp game at all because of this. I can't be arsed to be bullied online for the sole fact that I belong to the (according to these sexist so-called-mens opinion) "wrong" 50% of the population. I have my guldies that I play many different games with, they are my safe, sexim free space online. Our GM is a woman, as it happens. I am always wary of playing with randoms.
Harassment happens to everyone, not just women.
"because you're a streamer" is such a cop out. NOBODY deserves to be harassed.
unless your a streamer
jk lol
Police and government in general does. Taxation is theft. Forcing others to do something they dont want to do is a crime in any part of life until gangsters indoctrinate children into thinking government is above that
AMEN!
Unfortunately lot's of people would beg to differ. Their are alot of people who love harassing and hurting others just for the hella of it.
@@majormarketing6552 cool. But why Is this relevant.
It would be nice to have videos on this channel again
Agreed
the community has changed, and so has Asmon in response… it’s just negative topics and hate on everything, and as soon as it gets a bit political, the comments are full of (right-wing) toxicity. i miss the old times
@@Mantschgo “Right-wing toxicity” Okay, buddy. 🙄
Not precisely the racism or sexism story you asked for, but one day in BFA I was down by the docks doing table missions. I randomly got an achievement for some arbitrary thing. The game automatically puts the achievement into the chat for anyone nearby. Someone messages me and said "nobody cares about your" whatever the achievement was called. I ignored him and he continued to message me with vulgar messages and belittling me and I had done literally nothing but play the game. It didn't bother me too much, but I remember thinking " what if I was a new player experiencing this? " I would probably have immediately quit the game if that was my first experience and who could blame me? Weird stuff like this happens in every game, but it does seem to happen more in WoW from my own personal experiences.
God man some people are just miserable
This blows my mind how different FF is to WoW. Something like that would have the exact oppsite reaction in FF. Some emotes, well wishes, or just getting ignored would be my guess but never straight up weird harassment like that.
@@mann0311 I first played FF14 a few months after launch and it was not like that at all. The air of apathy was very present in the community. People satisfied with the games are going to be nicer than those who have spent years frustrated. I don’t think the people who play WoW are vastly different from those who play FF14. The circumstances they find their game in though, clearly are.
Whereas I haven't had that happen, I do avoid joining guilds on a low-level alt because I hate how it spams chat with the endless achievement links and feel like it would annoy people, so I understand that guy 😂 But he doesn't need to be a cunt about it
@@trtvitor1385 which launch are you talking about? ass i was present for both, and ff14 always had a decent community. It Won best community around its first year. Think the first time i met a really bad person was my first lvl 50 tank run in an expert dungeon for relic, back in the day. But this was after a meta i didn't know about had existed a good while.
Hello Zack, I wasn’t going to say anything, but I have a soft spot for good intentions. I’m a boomer and have kids your age. They love their video games to this day. I play and enjoy them myself. I hope you receive this the way I’m trying to send it. Blizzard isn’t the company you remember, it is a brand now and most of the people that built that brand are gone. It’s a new company pretending to be the brand you love. Accepting that will give you a proper perspective on what your dealing with. Good luck and be safe.
This! It's the ship of Theseus paradox; if you replace every part of the ship of theseus, is it still the ship of theseus? Literally replaced all components of Blizzard - is it still Blizzard? Well, not really. It's the same brand name, but it isn't the company you loved.
Yes, this is true. Its so sad, but so clear too. The passion, the criativity, the intention of past loved games dont exist anymore. Look at WoW, Diablo, Warcraft.. its just a Brand, we are strugling to accept.
Damn that hit me like a truck
This is so true and real
@@leonie7754 werd
Love how his eyebrows know when he’s live on twitch and when he’s not, they’re so calm on this channel.
The Asmongold is in the eyebrows.
They're resting for stream time, they need their beauty sleep.
😂😂😂
Addy eyebrows vs Natty eyebrows.
Zack and Asmon are not the same person btw.. they're twins
My now wife was stalked by a guild member years ago. She used to be friends with him until he got sexual and weird with her. She asked him to stop, and when he wouldn't, she cut ties with him and ignored him. He would continue to make new characters and would keep harassing her. The guy was even kicked out of the guild over it and she went over to Horde side to get away from him. He somehow knew about her other characters as soon as she would make them and continued the harassment. She opened up multiple tickets reporting the harassment and ignore evasions and Blizzard never did anything about it even though they said they would in their ticket responses. It drove her to just quit the game to get away from him. Just wanted to share this story so you know how common this is and how complacent Blizzard is about this.
@@ShakeZoolaGFX I appreciate the heads up if we ever decide to come back. We tried out Shadowlands for about a month together before quitting again. Not due to harassment or anything. I think the stalker is long gone at this point. We quit this time mostly because the game was stale to us. But once again, appreciate it.
@@TheRandomhero16 youre better off hope you guys find a game you like :)
That is beyond f'd up
Keep in mind im sure the people the reports were made to wanted to do something but the people in charge of the responsibility didnt feel like it
its so stupid that they would only "character ban" coms from the stalker, instead of doing an "account ban".
it invites the harassment to continue.
how can they not see that!?!
I would never hate someone that plays wow or 14 because they love the game. Defending the Blizz devs is a whole different story
Agreed. I don't care what game you play, but if you're defending harassment and discrimination then I don't want to talk to you.
Big tru, one shouldn't attach their identity to a company. It's easy to shill for the company but companies will never help any invidual.
Hating someone for the games they play is childish "I'm defending the software/hardware my parents bought me" energy lmao. There is no ethical consumption under our current system
@@TylerSmith-oz7ry oh of course of course. I am only referring to the ones involved and if I see one more comment like yours i’ll edit it to avoid any confusion
True
The thing I hate the most in WoW was always the people with huge egos and unfortunately the game is circled around "look at me I'm better than you" which translates to some people being straight up racist or toxic.
Absolutely
welcome to the internet
Asmon is one of these people but everyone prefers not to think about it :/
As a female gamer, I appreciate content creators bringing this to light. I’ve been stalked and harassed in WOW for being female, and despite me reporting it, and my whole guild reporting it, the player was never banned. I’d block him and he’d make new toons, in different accounts. He faction changed so he’d follow me around and tag all mobs so I couldn’t complete my dailies (Wrath expansion), he’d pay other players to send me messages. I had to stop playing for a while so he’d forget about me, and eventually my guild transferred servers.
😂😂😂😂😂😂
@@forsene537 bruh
It’s very disappointing and disgusting the shit females get when playing games.
It really puzzles me why they get hate. Maybe it comes down to people having bad experiences in life?
It must be a really cool, enjoyable and respectable thing to be part of a gaming community that just has fun and doesn’t stand for any shit
@@forsene537 Do us all a favor and stay away from FFXIV. We're very happy to not have to deal with man-babies like you.
Your guild transferred because of this?? Dam nice loyal people! Stay with that guild
I started playing WoW at the age of 12. At 14 I helped lead some pvp premades and by doing so I learned what the term jailbait meant. I was constantly being hit on by older men and pretty much had to speak out to the other leaders of the vent at the time whenever someone would harass me. It really terrified me at the time due to other IRL trauma that I was experiencing and being preyed made me realize that I had to hide my gender in WoW if I wanted to continue playing.
made up story
@@Ge01O why would you say that?
@@DreamItCraftIt because wow fanboys can't live with the fact that wow community is toxic
@@ag8276 yeah, damn 😔
@@Ge01O You are an example of a toxic person. Just saying for an example.
I have never seen so many comments with so many words in them. Just shows Asmons community does actually care about this stuff.
Yup. People complain because they care. They want the game to be better for everyone. Everybody is somebody and anybody is you. But of course Blizzard will just say, "no, you." when confronted with have any responsibility for toxicity. It's gross. I tried coming in as a new player during Legion and only lasted maybe a week before I just quit. The community killed it for me. I was new and learning so I had to deal with toxic players. It sucks.
Speaking as a Black WoW refugee- I’ve played since Wrath and i would definitely say that I’ve seen my share of toxicity throughout the years. One thing that I always dreaded was having to use teamspeak/vent/discord with random raid groups throughout the years. I hated listening to the random racist banter against blacks and sometimes asians. Over time i just stopped participating in any high level content that required voice-coms.
Dude sjw crap is literally everywhere
@@tyconnolly interesting way of saying you're a racist
Ty for speaking on this
@Chenkov Like for real I never ever heard or saw this shit in wow myself. If people claim that wow is toxic than they need to compare it with other games like league well league us toxic you dont need to look for those things like wow you will have them daily.
@@sebastiankaczmarek635
What's the point of doing that except making comparison? The toxicity is still there, it's not gone all of a sudden.
Nothing more infuriating than devs immediately dismissing valid criticism as “toxic”
I can think of a couple dozen things that are more infuriating than game developers dismissing criticism, lol
Everything is toxic when you lack fortitude, though.
I have to admit this doesn't only apply to WOW, but it's god damn true.
Facts. I will apologize when they do.
I think they are one of those smiley people he talked about, if you think that regular people are toxic, then wait till you see how toxic can get people who are all rainbows and positivity as soon as you say anything negative, or don't fit into their pretentious environment.
I played for 17 years. There wasn’t a day I played that I didn’t deal with toxicity multiple times. The final straw was doing YOLO rated bgs with a group mostly consisting of some guild in tichondrious. We did 12 bgs together and won 10 of them. The last one i did I was guarding a flag for 15 minutes alone while they were losing. I started zoning out and got surprised by a rogue and capped on near the end of the match when we were clearly already going to lose. It didn’t matter that I won 10 games with them zero issues and we were gonna lose anyway, I got bitched out by half the team and told I’m trash and told to delete the game because I’m such a pathetic loser and even after leaving one guy continued to harass me and whisper me with made up bullshit and insults. It was literally crazy town. It was the final straw, I’d had enough of this communities toxic shit, and I quit WoW the next day and been happily playing FF14 since.
Yikes
That's harsh!
Wherever you are right now (in FF14, ofc) may you have the time of your life, all the time.
FF14 is the most welcoming community i’ver joined. Thank god i found it
Who asked?
@@tannerfouche7226 found the Blizzard rep
this was originally submitted for a dramatime story on preach's channel, but this is my story, didn't feel like retyping it, so here's my story.
this story begins the way all good drama stories do, with me being a female player who is friendly, and a guy who couldn't take no for an answer. i had a guy who admitted he liked me, because he knew i was a girl, we'd been decent enough friends for two or so years, did some raids together, messed around in pvp and things. i politely told him no, i wasn't interested, and would never date anyone i met in a game (this is my policy across the board, will not date anyone i meet in an MMO). the person went from being my friend, to teasing, to mean jokes, and then to insulting and harassing me every chance they got. i'd block all of his characters he'd make to bypass me blocking them. i'd report it. i'd report every time they started calling me a wench, slut, or whore, yelling at me if i spoke in trade chat at ALL (usually spamming of calling a wench or misspelling bitch or whore because apparently, misspelling wouldn't get you in trouble, them harassing me for being a "bad player", them just going out of their way to trash talk me in trade.). this was someone who if i heard someone talking about him badly, i'd stand up for him. he wasn't the greatest player, but he was my friend, and i stand by friends.
i'd report when he got his FRIENDS to ALSO start harassing me, like one of his friends constantly trying to PM me "i love you", and calling me a bitch, or just doing it even MORE for telling him to stop. i'd report when he or his friends would sneak in to ventrilo's i would be in, because we'd had a lot of mutual friends, and he'd harass me in voice while we were doing raids. (blizzard refuted they couldn't do anything about ventrilo, since it wasn't "in game", but the reason he was doing it was for "in game" harassment, so fuck if i know). i'd report every time he and his friends would make alt characters with insulting and derogatory versions of my character's name in game, then sit in org, pretending to be me, offering to send people nudes, or to fly out and suck their dicks for gear, carries, and other nonsense. i'd report when they made alliance characters, then try to hunt me down to kill me. (i knew it was them, because friends confirmed it was their alliance alts, thanks to bnet.)
i reported when the asshole sent me a friend request on bnet with an account name of "fuck you"(bnet friends confirmed it was YET AGAIN, one of his multiple alt accounts). i reported when he made yet ANOTHER alt, begging me to tell blizzard i didn't mean the report (APPARENTLY THE ONLY FUCKING TIME BLIZZARD DID SOMETHING ABOUT THIS SHIT), that he was sorry, and just wanted his hunter account back. i reported the FULL CRUSADE OF HARASSMENT that came from me getting that account suspended for a week, not even banned. (a person who used to be a friend, and used to be in the guild i had been in at the time, she got involved with my harasser despite me warning her, and gave him an RL pic of me(nothing lewd), to which they turned around and posted it to the LARGEST RAIDING GUILD ON THE SERVER's RECRUITMENT PAGE, with a pic of a girl in her bra and panties that i guess they thought looked like me, and pretended to be me applying to the guild, offering to suck dick, send nudes, and to cyber with people if they'd just carry me for mount runs and gear. the guild's GM took it down immediately, and found out who it was, and supposedly dealt with it.) they also to and getting spammed via pm, about what a bitch I was, and how DARE i get his account suspended, and the reason they were doing this to me, was because "you got his account suspended, slut, you need to be punished". i reported ALL of it. and nothing.
this harassment from this asshole and his band of jackoffs went on for THREE FUCKING YEARS. not daily, but every other week or maybe there'd be a break for a month or so, but it was CONTINUOUS for THREE YEARS. the real shitkicker to this story, is blizzard's responses. i knew blizzard never did anything, because i'd be in town, and see that asshole and his friends, running their mouths in trade chat, like nothing happened. so, i sent a ticket, demanding answers, demanding to know WHY i was getting ignored, because their harassment and trolling had gotten to such a level on the server, which was low/med population, that i was GETTING BLACKLISTED from all the serious, legitimate raid groups on the server, because that asshole, who had been harassing me for THREE YEARS STRAIGHT, got into a higher level raid group, and since i wasn't friends with anyone in that group, he told his lies, and they spread the word that i was nothing but trouble, and was an attention seeking whore, that only wanted to get free handouts. i NEVER wanted or expected to be treated special because i was a girl, i NEVER wanted to just be carried, i wanted to EARN my place in raids. no serious raid group would take me, because of the slander and lies that my harasser told.
when i finally ticketed blizzard, asking for SOMETHING, literally BEGGING for ANY type of a solution, i got the bullshit response of we can't tell you what we do to people, but we do take all reports "seriously". i told them how they'd ignored this harassment for three years, they clearly were NOT doing anything, i begged for a transfer for at least my main character, to a server of my choice, just so i could get away from the years of damage they let go on.(i had 10 characters on the server, all crafters, all linked to help me make gold, and it would have been a PAIN to lose that, but circumstances be damned.) blizzard told me "we're sorry you feel that is the only solution, but we don't give free transfers except in the most exceptional of circumstances. if you think that will fix it, you can buy a transfer yourself.", and marked the ticket as resolved. i was angry. beyond angry. the THREE YEARS of bullshit, getting ignored all boiled over, and sent a ticket, posting the original ticket number, and went on about how can they consider this customer service? i was a paying customer, i'd played this game for nearly 8 1/2 years, and those people had made my game time a living HELL for nearly half of it, from blizzard's inaction. i demanded SOMETHING be done, i was NOT going to be ignored any more, and i would keep sending tickets till this was resolved. blizzard's response? "ok, this has gone far enough. you have had TWO game masters speak to you. we are investigating the situation, this issue is resolved. if you continue to send any more tickets about this issue, we will take action against YOUR account for spamming ticket queues. not just your wow account, but your battle.net account. have a nice day!! :D" i never once spammed ticket queues. i never once submitted multiple tickets. i never ONCE sent a ticket with copy pastes, trolling, or nonsensical jibberish. i never once sent in tickets for issues that HAVE been "dealt with". all i did wrong, was apparently ask blizzard to do their jobs, to understand the stress and anxiety this prick and his friends were causing.
after another shitty situation, unrelated to the harasser, occured because a friend helped me get off that server, and then stabbed me in the back for "raid drama"(group 2 bs, main tank's bad girlfriend healer drama, may tell this story at another time), i quit WoW to go play FFXIV, finally having had enough of WoW and the bad luck i ALWAYS seemed to have with finding people to play with in it. i'd been a longtime final fantasy fan, and had been torn when FFXl, and then FFXIV released.
this story isn't the ONLY one where i got harassed for turning down dates or other advances of assholes in game who can't deal with the fact a female is playing the game and won't cyber them, but this was the longest, and most insane harasser i'd ever had. the others, and there were MANY, went on for maybe a few weeks, or 2-3 months, then would give up, not because blizzard actually did anything. but not this asshole. it's because of these interactions i'd had with people in game, and blizzard's lack of give a shit, i have NO FAITH in blizzard, and never will. my experience in FFXIV has been a much better experience, not perfect, but i'd take it GLADLY over WoW. i have had one or two issues with guys not being able to take no for an answer, one of them getting exposed online (((NAME MENTIONED, can abbreviate if you want, but he's changed his name since, your discretion preach))) (look up oldbear stormborn, you'll find PLENTY about him), and there has been drama, but i've had no where NEAR the level of bullshit i had happen in WoW.
thank you for reading, and i pray NO ONE ever has to deal with something like this in game,
Yeah this is just weird for me. Like why treat girls differently? This goes double if you want to have any kind of relationship with them be other friendly or beyond. All harassment does is put someone already against you.
Your story is wild, I'm so sorry this happened to you :( Tbh similar things happened to me, not nearly as bad, but it was enough for me to turn colder through my twenties just to avoid misunderstandings.
Damn, going to those lengths over a simple no.... Shows how pathetic of a person that is.
What a great illustration of how the choices of the Blizzard team negatively affects players and contributes to further toxicity. Thank you for sharing.
What a heartbreaking story. Shame on the harassers and shame on Blizzard. Truly awful!
The ability to sit and talk legibly for 40 minutes all while being articulate and making sense is an underrated skill.
With no edits. Other youtubers be like what is this sorcery
The madman didn't even edit out the moth encounter and continued like nothing happened...
So true, i love the way zack talks. Even though english is my second language he's still talking in such a comprehensive and easy to follow way. Really shows that he's good at articulating himself.
He says he tries really hard to make sure he does this. He apparently did a video earlier this week but didn't upload because he said he rambled too much and it just didn't meet his standards. He's a really smart guy, who also just wants to have fun and chill playing games.
Imagine. Most people lack the attention span to even watch a guy talking for 40 minutes, let alone doing what you say he did. This would be more than a miracle for them to do.
All I can say is literally every time I go on to FF14 there's someone willing to help me. It's the craziest thing as no in WOW has ever offered to help me in 12 years.
I must be the only person who doesn't experience this in FFXIV nobody even talks to nobody in chat. Rarely ever did i get an answer to a question if I had something explained.
@@Aboleo80 are you perhaps not in the sprout chat? there's conversation and people helping people 24/7
@@Aboleo80 yeah as the person above said
Most conversations between ppl happen in FC chat unless they are talking to ppl outside their FC such as a cool bard playing music or something.
Try find someone to let you into the novice network
Iv played both wow and ff14, heres my experience.
During the old days of wow the community was very busy, but now days games kinda deadish only people you see talking are people selling boosts in classic or mythic+ carrys in retail. And most guilds are dead and only a small amount of active ones.
With ff14 i play on siren and its been quite enjoyable. Mentor chat always has someone to answer questions or talk, same with fcs mine has been awesome they even gave me a small house (they owned litrally 1 whole ward) and iv made good friends with couple other fcs i visit n hangout with. Main citys chats always busy. And then theres the hunting groups or trains that do world bosses and rare creatures. Theres so much community interaction and its been great so far.
there's no reason to interact with anyone in world of warcraft outside of your own guild, every aspect of the game can be played within your own little bubble. there's no sense of community and there hasn't been for a long time. When there is no incentive to interact with other players you start seeing everyone else as static background noise, basically everyone that isn't in your sphere of interaction might aswell be bots running around. idk just my 2 cents. I don't play World of Warcraft any longer
This is the side of Asmomgold that people on Twitter completely ignore. And thus their opinion is completely irrelevant to the topic of whether or not you're toxic or not or if you take "responsibility"
People on twitter ignore reality itself oftentimes
avoid twitter
Asmon is a smart guy. And these clips show that.
it's like people forget that Asmongold is like a persona of Zack.
Twitter often turns on their own. I may not always agree with Asmon, but honestly no one is going to be entirely unproblematic and that’s just unreasonable to expect. Despite he genuinely tries to give off the air of ‘basement gamer’, he legit does care about others and I think his persona is more about how he feels about himself instead of a lack of care for others.
I’m a mom and I get safe vibes from him. Being a good person and trying to be better is more important to me than being a perfect person. The biggest virtue signalers are often the most predatory, so his honestly is better than being non problematic.
I could not play the game for over 2 years because two weirdos in my old guild would DDOS and dox my girlfriend any time she logged into the game. Because we often did everything together, this meant I was being effected by extension. I missed out on the second half of Cata and early half of MoP as a result.
Her crime? She was an officer in our guild and she messaged them after raids to ask if they needed help with learning the fights or practicing rotations. These two guys were what we today call "incels" and didn't take kindly to her trying to tell them how to play. So they decided to "put her in her place," and a wave of endless harassment began.
This is the worst story out of many, from experiences that I've witnessed my female friends/guildies endure when it comes to harassment. I think that many girls would be happy just to be called "dog shit" or have people wipe M+ groups on purpose and then quit the party. That sort of harassment is a godsend to the stalking and targeted harassment that can go on forever.
That is one of the most insane thing i have heard... all cus she was a girl who wanted to help
Why not change your IP? 🤔
@@Meluel you shouldn't have to change your IP. Think about this for more than 10 seconds; that is all you have to do there bud!
This sort of targeted guild behavior has been a problem for over a decade now. Some ten years ago I knew a guy in Maplestory who had an entire guild of over 100 people harass him for months. They'd use the /find command to stalk him and KS all his mobs so he couldn't level. His crime was him telling the leader of that guild what to do in a boss fight. This kind of stuff is really sad when it happens.
@@Meluel we had done that a few times. We did not know it was the guild members at first who were doing it, so they were able to get our IP through the programs/forums we shared. Couldn't really do much about the doxxing (even today, police are often worthless with this matter), and they still found ways to get our IP after we discovered it was them. We quit the game and came back shortly before ToT.
I've been G Kicked for being black before, lol it was hilarious, and around early Wrath, I linked social media and just got kicked. One time I was in with a clique of friends who constantly dropped the N Bomb, and after the run I linked social media and never heard from them again 🤣🤣🤣 I'm old school, my skin is pretty thick, so stuff like that makes me laugh. However; I understand how annoying it can be. Being a black kid on the internet in the early 2000s really just desensitizes you to casual racism.
That's actually funny (bad but in a morbid sense funny).Like how the hell do people have enough time to hate others for skin color like if you would've been a jackass then yes I'd kick you regardless but if you pull your weight what would the reason be?Christ people can be dumb sometimes.
Same. As I got older I learned to not let things like that bother me. Some people project their insecurities in the form of animosity towards that of which is unfimiliar
its good to have thick skin but man wtf is up with these nerds throwing around the n-word. most wow players can't even blame it on being plain stupid and young cuz they're not. tf
Wtf, why link social media? You said you didn't have any real problems with it and even if you did why would you want to be around those people? Doesn't make sense but thanks for the imaginary message
@@adoringfan1226 dam I had to screenshot this comment. That's real buddy.
I've dealt with wow stalking before. someone harassed me publicly and privately. he would continue to make new characters to continue this harassment. after 3 months i reached out to blizzard to help me with this. i was sent a crappy "not our problem just keep ignoring those characters" response. issues like this have made me apprehensive to join new guilds or even pug with other people. i have encounter a lot of hatred and ignorance in this game just for being a woman. i know that the best thing is to be silent and say nothing. i shouldn't be forced to feel like this by a game. i should be able to report people that continue to harass me and they should be punished for their actions. ty for talking about this asmond.
my friedngone through same-but she reached out to gm after a week and got excatly same answer "just keep putting them on ignore"
That sucks bad, I'd recommend joining a chill guild on Kromcrush if you play classic, I quit a long time ago but I know many guilds are very relaxed (Majority of players are canadian stoners lmao)
@@bucket6988 this happened to me back in mop. I spent most of wod, legion, and bfa jumping from place to place or just not raiding due to anxiety over being harassed. Being a loud female I’m a magnet for crappy people. I ended up starting my own guild and raid team at the end of bfa. It’s been really awesome. My group is funny, chill, and supportive. I love playing wow, but I do think they need to do better. I’m glad so many people read my story and are supportive. Ty
What I know about and kinda grinds my gears is how some guys go super cringe on discord during raids cos there is a woman there and she talks. I mean sure some fun and all but they just go cringe and you can tell she is just being nice and not enjoying it at all, but some of those guys just can't pick up on that. Idk how cos we are all 30yo+ in classic it's not like we are children who never saw a vagina before. I complained about it to an officer I am close with cos I did not come to listen to that and cringe I came to raid, but it's just there.
Personally if I was a woman and I wanted to play the game properly I'd never tell anyone I was a woman and I would never talk on discord. Cos if it's like that in a public setting for a woman I can only imagine she gets callers in PMs too. They all may be polite and good chaps but I would just not wanna deal with it cos I came to play the game not deal with advances lol
Good take, and thank you ☺️
As a female that are high up the 3s pvp ladder i somethimes get harassed by males that cannot handle the fact i am a female.
I don't really care that much about some low life idiot /w me, so i put them on ignore, but they just logg on another server and /w me and delete char and keeps /w me as you told people do to you.
I have got a thic skin after playing wow for 14+ years and some scars aswell because of the harrasment i cannot do anything with, even when i report their characters.
Exactly I just ignore people when they are annoying there is no sense in letting them actually make you mad. Nowww if your a streamer then it’s alot harder I imagine so that’s different
@@PersianGamer36 ddddddfddd as a
sadge
this isn't even about having thick skin. you can be strong as hell, and this shit just going on and on and on, it whittles you down, it destroys your mentality, it makes you afraid and anxious of dealing with people... i know for one, i am TIRED of being strong, i am TIRED of having to be "the bigger person" and "just ignore it LOL". i am tired, when i know blizz will do NOTHING, of standing up for myself, only to be PUNISHED by blizz because the toxic little babies can't handle their own medicine being turned on them.... i've been saying and ranting about this crap for YEARS, only to get ignored, and blamed that its all in my head, or it HAS to be something I'M doing, because it always happens to me.
i am so done with blizzard.
Doesn't matter if you've got a thick skin or not. Not being able to do anything about it yourself is so very emotionally exhausting. And to find out Blizzard has fostered and protected this kind of attitude amongst themselves just... well, it makes sense why they don't care if you're getting harassed. They couldn't give less of a shit about any of us, they don't even give a shit about their own people.
I've mostly had uncomfortable situations, particularly as a female tank in BC. Like someone in a pug hearing my voice and running ahead of me to tank even though he wasn't spec'd for it and we were already halfway through the dungeon, or when I joined a guild that I liked overall but the MT setting the tone by saying weird things to me, like hitting on me during a raid but in that way that you know he was trying to put me in my place. My first tanking experience in a raid, Kara, was overshadowed by the other female tank getting weirdly sexual right before the raid started (I'm not sure if it for herself, or just a way to make the men like her more?? There is definitely an attitude of if you can't beat em, join em... and I'm sure not everyone really thinks this out before doing so) and making the whole experience kind of suck because of it. Pretty sure it's partly why I mostly kept my mouth shut and didn't really like talking much, plus why I quit tanking so I had a less visible role. I'm still glad I got to tank Illidan, I will always remember it as one of the best experiences in my life. I just wish I felt comfortable tanking again, I sometimes miss it.
Being a female gamer puts a lot more stress on everything. It doesn't matter if you're stereotypically attractive or not at all, it's always an extra game of how well you should let others get to know you, especially whether to let them see your actual pictures. We can't just be who we are and just have it accepted at face value like men can where they can be considered unattractive and it's never even mentioned (for the most part) or a reason to be treated differently... I've even shared vids of what I consider absolutely gorgeous WoW streamers/UA-camrs and seen their appearance picked apart. I dunno how they do it, it's hard enough just to exist in game much less be so visible. And it's not just about how we look, but I tried going back to WoW last year and tried to have an attitude of just being myself... but could definitely tell just being nice/sweet makes people just kind of crap all over you, unless you're in the right guild. It makes me wonder if Hazelnutty is able to just be her sweet self in guild, it seems like it.
Real shit
I think you're looking too much into it. Most people don't care if you're a girl or not. You must've met the weirdest people. Generally, this is just not the case at all. That being said, at the highest level such as mythic raiding, in my experience, having girls in the team is a really bad thing, because people do behave oddly and generally, female gamers tend to underperform a lot more frequently than guys. Dunno why.
@@LunaLoveWoW You're delusional and part of the problem.
@@LunaLoveWoW dude??? Wtf. Link to those statistics or stop pulling them put of your ass. If your raid team can't handle a female playing they're clearly not focused enough to do high end content. It's down right pathetic and any good RL would shut that down even before it got to a point where performance would take a hit. If someone would rather not take females because of their male raiders, than deal with the bad attitude of said raiders, then they're part of the problem and not fit to lead.
Judge people on their performance regardless of gender, should be the way to go always.
@@LunaLoveWoW Yeah right, put the blame on her, try to make her feel bad about her experience, then proceed to be a sexist ass while also saying the presence of women brings behavior issues! Couldn't be more part of the problem, could you?
I recently started pushing extremely high keys in WoW, like 20's and above, and I now solemnly do it with pugs because holy shit, the toxicity blizzard created with this system is insane, I had a guy messaging me a day after I logged in telling me to hang myself etc.
Think about it, this dude kept my character on his friends' list A DAY after we failed the key and kept harassing me, not the first time too, figured I wouldn't ignore him right away and just logged off because rage is passing, but nope, and reporting does nothing either. Shame some people working on these recent systems are proud of this too. this is just a WoW specific example. Love you zack
dont u just laugh or feel sry for ppl like these? who clearly have nothing goin on in their lives?
mythic high keys are one of the biggest toxic things ever.. only LoL rank games where you have to win to rank up from bronce to silver and you lose cause of a feeding yasou mid are more toxic then this ^^
Quick Thought exercise for everyone... Why does M+ degrade on failure to time? When designing a game or level in a game, the default for the last 30 years + has been, "If the players fails the level, they start back at the beginning of the level to try again." But Blizzard has designed a system where if you fail, let say a Sonic level. You now have to go back to the previous level and complete it before trying the level again.... Why?
The simple answer if that the system is designed to long-gate the content for as long as possible. This is why keys are random and the degrade system is in place. Imagine for Mythic Raid bosses that when you entered the raid you didn't choose the boss but a random one was generated in front of your raid. If you failed to kill the boss then the boss would respawn but on HC mode. Then after complete that another random Mythic boss would spawn? How much longer do you think it would take to clear Mythic Raid?
The ability efficiently practice is key to improvement. The Mythic plus system is Designed to stop you from doing that. The by product is a toxic social system. The way Tourghaust level unlocks on completion is the way Mythic Plus should work but blizzard is scared of the player based "completing the content" and therefore you and now suck is a toxic social experience.
FIRE THE DESIGNERS!
@@Beckonfour Brilliant. The toxic game community begins with toxic game design from parasitic design to systems that incent negative action. The balance of power is skewed in random Mythic+ in that it takes a full party working well to succeed and only one person choosing to sabotage to fail. One person is empowered to trash not just the experience in the moment of their party but the investment those players have put in and the fruit of all the players that came before.
How many expansions have we had now that all the effort you put in during an expansion no longer matters? How many expansions have random strangers been empowered to trash the experience and investment of others? How many expansions has there been a lack of oversight and intervention against patterns of negative behavior?
WoW is toxic by design, and whether that design is intentional or incompetent simply no longer matters.
The higher keys u do the more kys-type messages and leavers you get. Tryhards are the most toxic. Just sad.
Zack, FF14 has responded to your concern buying the game and there is now a easy opinion on launcher new as of today.
Crazy they listened right? Or this is what care looks like
was that really added today? i just noticed the "buy the full game" button as I logged into the trial version today
Wait, seriously? I haven't logged in today and I own the full version so I don't know if I can see that option, but if it's true then that's awesome, they have no idea how many potential customers they were losing for how difficult it is to buy the game lol.
Legit? Maybe I'll actually buy the game now
Has anyone clicked the link? It's probably just a link to the same shitty website, the mog station needs to be integrated into the launcher.
Open launcher, click log in or create account. Once logged in should have an option to click play or store.
wait really? awesome
I used to play a druid healer back in legion. When people started doing mythics and the people in my guild did as well and keys, noone would invite me , cause I was a druid. Nobody would give me space to learn and play. I didnt have any friends who were kind and understanding. All i heard was = bad dps, bad hps, no raider.io = noob, we hate you. I quit for that reason and i cant see myself going back anytime soon
Being "socially awkward" is NOT the same as being socially UNACCEPTABLE. We need to stop calling these jerks "awkward". They KNOW they're wrong, they hide behind "I didn't know".
AGREED. imho w Dragonflight i just found the systems too complex . THE very moment u hit 70 ; people expect you that you did m+ 20 and that is just not ok and far from the truth. Il leave that thought right there. 2) People are not gifted enough by god so they punish players as I observed. For me I come back to play wow because I like the cheesist apects of the game in A modern way :)
@@adamtajhassam9188stop eating soy
My boyfriend, me and his colleagues all started to get back Into wow for shadowlands with the goal to get 2100 in rgbs. Since you always Need 10 people and we were only 10 people it sometimes occured ( of course) that Not all 10 people are available in the evening. But hey you can invite randoms right? LOL. I Was Our Teams target caller because i played ret and everyone agreed that im the Best for the role, since ive got the most knowledge. I think we Never had a random for more than one bg in the group. As soon as they joined the voicecoms they would immedietly leave ( often in the bg) or after the Match, telling me that women shouldnt Do shotcalling. The higher Our rating got the more toxic it became. To a point were we only played when every one of Our 10 man Group was available. Playing wow as a women and especially wow pvp is an absolute nightmare. I really really appreciate what you are doing for the community, much love
A woman shouldnt the shotcalling?? Who does learn people to be so conservative . It is absolutely disgusting
are you transgender?
@@atojediccbaka9097 no are you?
@@RM19061 that isn't conservative, that is sexist.
@@nikkonikkoshite well i think conservative is also a bit sexist sometimes
Well thought & spoken Zack, as always. Been a physically disabled & female gamer for over 30 yrs... since my late teens. Heard all sorts of horrid / toxic stuff over those yrs & agree 100% on how easy it is to mass-assume or fall into that echo-chamber. We all need to work harder at being less cynical & embrace / understand differences both in game & IRL. Hugs!
While I agree with almost everything...its not just about being female or some minority. I heard so many toxic things about my nationality, my family...you pick whatever you want and somebody said it to me. And I play games for 20 years and do sports for same amount of time. And its the same...it will never go away because ppl are just bad to each other in general but ofc you can make better effort to stop it.
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Shame Asmon gets a bad wrap at times for those who only watch short clips or listen to sound bites.
Much respect my dude
Lack of context is how impressionable ignoramuses spread misinformation.
they hear Asmon say "BIG DICK" once then leaves, then bases all their judgment toward him on that one phrase.
"bad wrap" lmao
I hope they make better wraps for him in the future, my man has to eat well
@@MorfsPrower nice word choice. I haven't seen anyone use "ignoramuses" in many a moon.
@@mildlydazed9608 I like those archaic words. I'm also a big fan of troglodyte and new renditions of it.
Mongoloid too, since I have fair grounds to use it.
Zack is actively sticking his neck out for the community. When others hide behind likes, and RTs, he makes videos and talks about it, he jumps on TW to check Wow, and others. This right here is the clear example of why the Wow community is rotten, at its core; while Zack adresses the issues, others just want a fight with him. BIg thanks Zack for all you try to do for the community, thanks for being the voice of reason when others decide to hate.
"This man here is the clear example of why the Wow community is rotten, at its core" - this reads that Asmon is the reason the community is rotten. Is this what you meant to say? The rest does not read that way.
@@MichelleMills1972 I thought the same thing but I don’t think it’s saying it’s his fault, it’s saying that the community is rotten because they just want to hate on him even when he’s being reasonable.
@@robertwalker7502 his man here is the clear example of why the Wow community is rotten, at its core; while he addresses the issues, others just want a fight with him.
you cut half the sentence off...
@@MichelleMills1972 Oh pardon my English , Im actually not a native English speaker so my grammar is all over the place, my bad! Fixed I guess?!
@@ogbuddah4234 no worries - I figured as much. It is fixed. I thought it would be best if you were informed and could fix it. (your English is better than most native speakers so do not fret that. I figured it was a typo.)
Way back in Wrath, someone whispered me a pretty extensive death threat just because I won the Blue Proto-Drake that drops from Skati in heroic Utgarde. They were trying to convince people to "pass" after instantly selecting "need" the moment it dropped themselves. Anyway, we all needed and I ended up winning the mount. Apparently, that was worth not just a very graphic description of how exactly this person would track me down and kill me but also was worth sending me an in-game mail from SEVERAL alts with pretty much the exact same text.
Now, I know there was no way this person would ever be able to track me down, nor was I at all intimidated by the death threat but I did report it. The person got suspended. Idk exactly how long but it couldn't have been more than a day because when I logged in a few days after I had a nice mail waiting for me with some additional name calling and another death threat because I had the audacity to report this. Of course, this too I reported.
I kinda gave up on WoW for a couple of months when I continued to see this person walk around Dalaran. How is that behaviour not instantly cause for a perma ban?!
And I know I'm not the only one! I've heard some shocking stories over my time playing WoW.
This is disgusting. I played wow in 2007, and GM's would reply to you in-game through whisper and help out with things like this. They just stopped even trying. This is so wrong.
Yeah i've had people log over to wish me death just because i destroyed them in battlegrounds lmao
I had similar whispers in wotlk after winning duel vs some lock in elwynn forest. Thankfully my guy stopped after i ignored him.
@@ZeranZeran GMs and CS reps are expensive. How many times over the years have we've seen layoffs and we're told "don't worry its not affecting the devs, its just the support teams" ? This is the result. Community by automation and neglect.
@@lacker101 They're not anywhere near as expensive as Blizzard makes them out to be, and all GM jobs could easily be done from home. As of 2020, they are still using a "GM room" at Blizzard HQ to hand out any manual GM actions, according to the tour I was given.. which seems a bit weird, doesn't it? Why do you need to be at the Blizzard building to moderate your game..? Nothing personal, I know what you're saying is true, and Blizzard firing so many GMs is a huge issue; but make no mistake, Blizzard can more than afford enough GM's for WoW, especially in it's current state. They did it all through Vanilla, TBC, and WOTLK. After that, all GM interactions became automated, and useless. They used to actually talk, get your side, go through chat logs, and handle things. It took them like 1 min per person. Its a necessary job; human moderation. Their automated systems are so useless. part of the reason I quit is that not only did the game feel dead, so does any type of trying to communicate with the people working on the game. Lived near Blizzard HQ most of my life, known multiple employees there, (even a few ex GM's!) they had nothing but great things to say. Blizzard was once great, and they can get back there if they get a kick in the ass.
You know its about to be serious when he starts with “hey guys”
instead of "sup boys" lol
I prefer this channel. Asmongold is a bit of a character (the thumbnails on the clips give that away) where this is more raw(r) and imo feels more honest.
@@saviourself687 it is :) Asmongold is a character. I think Asmongold is Zacks version when he is playing a game, we don't behave the same all the time.
@@Meluel Asmongold is a mighty Human Warrior foretold in legends, Zackrawr is just a regular human.
@@MrSanctuarys asmongold is zacks character in the World of World of Warcraft
The perfect example of what Zack is talking about here is the players from Latin America, everytime a Latin player joins anything, BG, LFR, Mythic +, etc, people start harassing them, no matter if the player is good or bad, I have a collection of screenshots of people saying bad stuff to Latin players just because Blizzard doesn't care if you report them. Oh and BTW, the 3 servers where Latin players play are located in Central US, which is further away from them (consider East being closer) and despite years and years of post on the forum guess what, Blizz did absolutely nothing, must of the South American players play with PIN at least from 120 - 250 - 350 in a good day, think about that the next time you see a Ragnaros - Quel'thalas player lagging out.
It sucks that you have to play WoW with such difficulties. Now compare this to FFXIV adding oceanic located data centers because people asked for it. Night and day.
Hey, Australian guy here, I came back to wow in late legion and BFA and stricly pugged. The amount of times I heard people in discord talk about Rag and Quel'thalas with disdain truly is shocking. I think a lot of the people that were talking shit don't even know what ping is, honestly. I ended up making my own groups and filling them mainly with people from Rag and Quel'thalas (back in Vanilla-Wrath Australians had to also play on 120-350 ping so I kind of felt a connection).
I ended up pugging AOTC Uldir + Eternal palace and 10+ keys with almost all Rag + Quel players. Let me tell you those were the best pugs I have ever had on wow, not sure if I was lucky... There was no raging no weird vibe after a wipe like everyone wants to yell at each other. New raiders asked questions and were answered without any alluding to players skill, sexuality, race or any other thing I expected from 8+ years playing the game.
This one Demon Hunter tank from Quel'thas... Oh my god, best tank I've ever seen in ALL of my time playing wow. He was a fucking great guy too. By best I mean any group I had with him succeeded, fast at that. He gave me the easiest M+ Keys of my life.
It got to the point of me dreading being in any group without you guys.
I think living in the U.S. actually might do something to someone brain chemistry, don't know what or how but man... it's bad.
I've played with some good latin players, and I've played with a metric ton of bad ones. My one point of disagreement here is that it goes beyond ping. I don't care if you're under performing on dps, or missing aggro on an add here or there as a tank, or maybe not putting out as many heals as you should be. There's easy solutions around that, and the dungeons aren't so hard that you need everyone operating at 100%. I'd always give them a chance, but if they started doing really stupid things, I'd kick them.
I used to organize guild mythic plus carry runs (main raid tank [me], main raid healer, two top tier raid dps, and one open spot for either undergeared guildies or lucky pug players who would get a free carry) during Legion. For every decent Quel'thalas player, we would encounter 20 who plain wouldn't know what they were doing at all (and I don't mean on 15+ mythics with challenging affixes, I'm talking just basic normal dungeon strategy), and either wouldn't or couldn't communicate with us to adjust their behavior. Running off ahead of the group and getting killed, breaking cc's, casting BoP on the tank while I've got aggro on multiple mobs, running off to drag extra adds into an ongoing boss fight, repeatedly moving into cleave position. Stuff that I rarely ever saw happen with pug players from my own server were very commonplace from Rag and Quel players.
@@-Keith- Hey Keith, I totally understand and I'm with you, I believe in meritocracy if I have what it takes to be in the group/raid let me prove myself, what I'm saying is sometimes we don't even get the chance to do so. There's a ton of bad players in LATAM, yes, but there are some good too, they just don't get the chance and end up grouping with guess who? the "bad" players.
I had the amazing opportunity to play RBGs a whole season in MoP with a bunch of cool people from NA and I remember that was the time I had more fun playing this game.
Eh, obviously harassing people for it is bad but if I joined a group and there was a player from certain servers I’d probably just leave the group immediately.
I think the problem is that over a long time toxicity is accepted as "normal".I'm playing League of Legends for like 8 years now and it's one of the most toxic games out there. I was insulted so many times by so many people that I had the same mindset playing it after a while. Like calling people retarded is like saying hello there. One guy starts it and I respond, but I didn't want that to happen, I hate being toxic.
I'm a very chill and friendly guy IRL and in other games like FF14, so after 7 years I disabled the chat in lol and it made the game much more enjoyable only getting insulted after matches.
I get it man I'm generally an understanding and non confrontational person but CS:GO makes me an absolute demon lmao. But I feel like competitive games get a bit more leeway for that.
I don't really attack people personally but I will mock their gameplay to an un acceptable degree lol. (Get out of our rank 8 game with your cross hair on the fuckin floor) lmao
As soon people accept that is a norm, that is when this mental disease spreads. I don't care people say put on a thick skin, that is all bullshit. It is just an excuse not dealing with it. Why people need to deal with harassment when they only want to enjoy playing a game. This is part blame on game design, the company, and the community. We all human beings, how we treat each other is what makes the world/community. Each person are responsible weather they do or not do anything with this kind of behaviour.
You think League is Bad? Try Heroes of Newerth. The toxicity in that game is almost mentally crippling at times. It paralyzes you to try and consider how sad the people trolling you are in real life
@@famousdev9707 ive just never understood why the rage? Idk i got raged at by children once becauae i said good goal to the other team on rocket league because it was a good goal. Personally im of the mentality that i play games for fun and if i cant enjoy a game while loosing its probably not a game i should play. Games should be enjoyable weither your winning or loosing. To me it just seems childish to get so angry at other people controlling pixels on a screen, have fun thats ehat it all about who cares man
@@Unforgiven11 the fact that it makes you sad means the trolling works. Don't let it get to you. Ignore the idiots
My wife hates going into voice chat on overwatch because almost match, someone harasses her or is disrespectful, saying things to her because she’s female. It’s irritating. As her husband, my job is to cheer her up after the bad harassments, and it’s infuriating to feel powerless in these instances.
This has been going on for years. Reporting, I guess, is a deterrent, but if the punishments were harsh enough, wouldn’t the harassment also go away? People would be too scared to say anything out of fear of a ban or loss of money invested.
Obviously the punishments are not steep enough, or the effort is lackadaisical, as the harassing happens to this day.
It’s not like she has anything abnormal about her voice or speech for these people to latch onto, just that she’s a girl. It’s sad.
That actually isn’t the solution. You can’t punish negative with negative. Especially when they’re incentivized to let those players return by spending money on them. You have to actively encourage and reward the right behaviors.
You are a good man to take her feelings seriously. Too often do women and men alike get subjected to toxicity and instead of getting comfort from the very people they trust its far too common they get told to get over it and suck it up because it's just a game. Overwatch may be a silly game, but how human beings treat each other is anything but.
@@matt566 finally, someone said it
@@matt566 But a game can't always make up for someone being a dick, It's a game, it shouldn't have to psychologically mould people into better people that don't harrass others. It should just be a quick ban. Simple.
@@joepopplewell680 I think both bans and things promoting good behavior should be a thing in online games. Some people need to be taught good behavior because their shitty parents couldn't be arsed to.
I was in a horde guild in BC where I was called a Latino racial slur (s**c) by a guild mate via guild chat. I reported them to Blizzard and left the guild. Blizzard responded same day inferring that it was guild chat and they were hands off, not sure of the exact verbiage (was 10+ years ago).
The guild leader asked why I left and after explaining the situation he seemed to have no problem with it. The next day that same guildee who called me the racial slur started whispering me the same slur aggressively. I reported him and I think he had 24 hour ban. He did it again, I reported and he must have gotten a 3 day ban because he was back that week. I reported it again and left the server. I was so anxious about the situation and nervous he would follow me just to harass.
My own experience shows Blizzard cared more about that individuals $15 dollars than my harassment.
As a fan of Blizzard since D1, the focus on individuals breaks my heart. I hope they stop looking perceived symptoms and start treating the disease.
Thanks for sharing, it made me sad to read but I'm glad you were able to get away from that and I hope you are having a great day!
Okay, but why didn't you put him in ignore after the first time? Or then again, maybe you did and the guy was using alt. Not defending him, but honestly if a single stranger on the internet calling you names is enough to make you anxious, you really need to get a tougher skin.
@@divolg7981 My input is about his targeted and continued harassment, it’s what Zack asked for. I’m sharing another data point on how blizzard allows harassment to continue when so many other games (FFXIV for example) don’t tolerate it. I think this was a big point of Zacks video and why he asked people to share their stories.
@@divolg7981 nobody needs to justify anything? So what if it's only a single person on the internet, someone who is going through a really hard time in real life is inadvertently very likely to struggle with negativity when using something like a video game as a way to be happy and have an escape.
When the escape stops being just that and starts becoming another area where negativity leaks in because of the actions of other people the companies of said games SHOULD be doing something about it when it's reported. Microsoft suspends you same hour for sending shit posts to others on XBLive. Repeat offences increase the suspension duration. All companies should adopt that right. Making excuses that guild chat is off limits is down right fucking ridiculous!!! THOSE GUYS PROGRAMMED THE LITTLE TEXT BOX AND IT IS NOT ENCRYPTED. Stand outside of the box and look at the drivel you're spouting.
"Your I'm not defending him but" is stupid and illogical, you've not even thought it through and just jumped to an uneducated answer to someone adding a data point to Zacks current video. These people are the change we need in the industry, calling shit companies out on there shit decisions and ignorance. Sadly single minded people like your self that will be the reason things don't change. Surely if it doesn't affect you it can't affect anyone else right?
just play FF14, they actually ban people who harass you
Female perspective: Played WoW for 10+ years, I was a raider for all of those years from Wrath till Legion. I had a guild master who would make sexual comments towards me time and time again during raid, the team who was mostly guys would laugh at me. We had two hunters on our team and nine times outta ten The other Hunter would get the loot before me, I was always last to receive anything. I was talked down to all the time like I didn’t know my class or didn’t understand mechanics, harassed and told I should be playing a healer cause “that’s all women really know how to play, they don’t know how to tank.” When my alt was a Blood DK….
I stopped playing around BFA, came back for 9.0 and just couldn’t get into the game anymore.
Happily playing FFXIV right now and I’m a tank. ❤️
Sorry to hear that happend to you. How much better do you think the community in FFXIV are?
@@verycoolguy69 Honestly the FFXIV community has been really forgiving, when I queue into a duty or raid I tell them I'm a new tank, and they say thats ok. Usually theres someone there that has done the content at least once and can help. Ive wiped a few times I wont lie. But it never has gotten to people yelling at me and telling me I'm garbage or I shouldnt play a tank.
I dont think I'm going to be playing WoW again honestly, I had my fun with it when I did... but 14 is just so much nicer
I started playing WoW 2 weeks before LK release. I fell in love with this game 7 days into my 14 day trial. Around the time of Cata a guildie started harassing me with extreme lude comments. I reported him and put him on ignore. Each time I did this, he just made another toon and would continue with the same stuff. This just seemed to escalate his anger. He was threatening me and my kids stating he would find me and what he would do to me and my kids when he did. A couple of people called Blizz (back then you could actually call them with complaints) and our rival guild apparently was reporting him as well. Since he was on my ignore I couldn't see what he was saying but I was told "you really don't want to know what he's saying about you in general chat". I figured it had to be pretty damn bad when our rival guild is putting in complaints. He was put on a 3 month suspension about many many months of this going on. His first day back he contacted my friend to tell him to make sure I know he's back. My friend contacted Blizz by phone to tell them this and I heard he was banned from the game. I ended up making a toon on another realm and came very close to quitting. I didn't feel I had any other choice but to quit something that I truly loved. As a female gamer we get harassed the moment they know you're a female in real. I always know how the convo is going to go the moment they start with "you're a girl in real" and here comes the sexual comments. Thank you Zack for telling your story. There are many like that. I truly believe that Blizz just doesn't care enough to stop this harassment. So naturally hearing of the abuse that actually has gone on in the office, I felt I just couldn't continue to support a company that treats their employees this way and canceled my subscription after 13 years of playing. Honestly moving to ffxiv it has been a breath of fresh air. I haven't been harassed once so far. Thank you for all your time in making content that's right on the mark.
I'm sorry this happened to you to this extent. During Cataclysm, I had one of my guildies make nasty and lewd comments about me in the same sort of way. Reporting him did absolutely nothing, but strangely enough the best way to get rid of him was to tell my guild leader, 'Look, you kick this guy or I'm leaving'. To my luck, it worked, and blocking the dude in game worked well enough. Then he found me on Facebook. It did last long, but it was deeply embarrassing and uncomfortable.
I've since moved to FF14 in recent years, and the amount of other ladies I meet on the game is refreshing to me. I hope it continues to be a safer place for you, as well! :)
Ma'am, this is a Wendy's.
I really do not understand how people can be so weird...
@@rhythmauthority5314 it's amazing what people will do when you can't find out who they really are, and even more horrific when they don't CARE if you find out who they are.
@@nikkonikkoshite that's true. There are no repercussions for their actions. Nothing serious will happen to them.
It was only through playing male characters and keeping personal information at a minimum did I manage to avoid harassment. There's my female experience in WoW.
@@misterhh9899 Oh, I'm good now. I quit mid-BFA.
Recently I picked up GW2 and got invited into a small guild. And since we're small and only about six of us are active, I think they realize we can't really afford to be mean to each other, so I haven't dealt with any harassment yet. I'm even using a female character with a feminine name! We're all WoW refugees, so we _definitely_ know the struggles of toxic gamers. Only one of them is fully aware of me being an irl girl and he's not made a fuss at all (he's also gay so he's likely faced some toxic bozos as well). The others? They'll learn for sure next week when I make my debut in voice chat. lol They've already ran dungeons and missions with me, so they can't say "ur bad cuz ur a girl" because that would be objectively false at this point.
Girl gamer here from Latin America. By the end of Legion our GM needed to step out from wow because of his job. We made a poll for the new GM and this one grown up dude that we thought to be at least a decent person, won. Literally by the next 3 days half the guild got kicked by the new GM, and he was arguing with our youngest male guild member, a kid that was 15 years old (very kind kid btw), writing insults and horrible things. I was on vacations at that time, and as soon as I logged in that day, a girl told me that several other girls got messages from the new GM asking them for their phone numbers, and if they refused he kicked them out. Our entire lovely guild became hell itself. A good chunk of our guild reported him, but nothing happened, great customer service ugh.
idk how this dude managed to deceive an entire guild that much
I really appreciate you speaking up about the toxicity in the community. You and Preach have really helped me keep things in perspective because it was really overwhelming when info started dropping. I've had way too many really gross experiences in WoW. I shared in a comment on one of Accolonns videos about the guild I left because the guild leader was making lewd comments about me and other women in the guild. That's really just the tip of the iceberg. I left a server entirely because a guy went all stalker on me trying to find me IRL. I quit for almost a year during MoP because I sound younger than my actual age and this guy "likes em young" and just wouldn't leave me alone. I had a really amazing guild in Legion until almost everyone dropped out mid BFA. Trying to find a new guild to raid/do M+ with gave me so much anxiety so I just haven't. I don't want to deal with the toxicity or the creeps.
I feel like blizzard has more pressure than ever to give players quick "wins", so hopefully they make a lot of long asked for changes. Also I'd love it if they worked on some long term things too, like ways to actually deal with people in game who harass you. There are so many wow stream ideas that aren't possible to do because it only takes 1 person to ruin the whole event.
And i think they already had a few chances to give players some quick "wins" but didn't take them. Like with the recent time walking stuff... Like, is it that bad that some ppl are leveling alts to play your game with more? "Yes, Must erase all fun!"
Btw How do you choose with which account to comment? Lmao
I'm sorry but i think the priority should be to make the game "better" as a whole, even tho i'm not a game dev
Harassment and streamer problems aren't anything to scoff at, but i don't think that should be the priority right now ("x
true
Doubtfull. Just look to their record, we can't think of Blizzard as a competently run company. If anything they're more likely to double down at this point.
Can you please go back to making deck testing videos instead of making top 10 videos? You were legitimately entertaining with your convoluted combo series.
I played Overwatch yesterday and had someone start raging and telling everyone in the lobby to kill their selves. Not the warcraft community just a different blizzard community.
I'm just a guy and it's mentally exhausting to try and put up with the toxic bullshit constantly.
I know this is probably getting lost in the comments and never reaches you Zack, but just wanted to say thank you for all the hours of entertainment you gave me and many others. I played the game for the better part of my life recently let it finally go due to all the bullshit and personal reasons.
I'm in a shitty place in my life right now, but the one thing that lets me keep my mind off it are your streams and I agree with majority if not all of your views and comments, you just vocalize the same ideas that have gone through minds of thousands of players, and the fact that some people have the audacity to directly attack you, also making a lot of us seem as mindless puppets in your hands that you just get to unleash on command to push your ideas is just pathetic.
Don't let it ever get to you and please, NEVER STOP ALWAYS GOING BIG DICK
Sadge
I hope everything gets better, friend :]
You don't deserve this Asmon
Your not alone just keep goin one day at a time.
Strength and honor to you Mariusz! May you crush your enemies and hear the lamentations of their women!
I was gkicked once I announced that I was black back in cataclysm
Its okay, found another guild soon after but I left the game at the end of the expansion.
Thank you for the very lengthy video.
Sorry you had to deal with that man, it's sickening
opposite note, we had a recruit in Tomb of Sargaras that kept casually dropping the n word in discord. Little did he know our guild leader was a black dude. He got kicked after like 10 mins into his first raid before even pulling that giant inferno boss (forgot the name).
I had the same thing happen to me back in Ulduar. First time I quit the game for a few months. Makes you question the point in dealing with this in a fantasy game when you play to try to get away from the real life version for a few hours.
Blizzard devs be doing DARVO ; "Deny, attack, and reverse victim and offender". Saying somebody should be fired for imcompetence isn't a "personal attack" it's a fucking statement of fact.
I was an officer in top 100 raiding guild, and we had 1 other guild on our server who raided, to a "high" level. So naturally the talented players from that guild constantly applied and occasionally were invited to raid with us, resulting in the GM and officers of that guild hating us. I stopped raiding in 2018, and I still received hate mail from these people up until I quit a few months ago. (I probably have mail from them right now if I were to log in.)
I would have loved an account wide ignore in addition to character. Preferably, not instantly account wide ignore, as I am okay with giving people second chances. But if I have a character on ignore, and I ignore another alt of theirs, a pop up that gives the option to account mute would be great
Damn that sucks man, you received hate mail over a god damn video game. I don't blame you from quitting raiding.. I would have too. Stay strong.
I'm like a server troll on classic and alot of people dislike me cuz of it and I admit to doing dodgy shit like ganking alliance players that I dislike and tbagging them with my alliance char. And I must say I have legit never seen so much toxicity in a game like classic its even worse than csgo
Btw you can get someone banned for going around the ignore function. Funny part is blizzard managed to implement the account wide ignore on classic but not retail. A guild that I hate got me banned because I ganked there chars with my horde account for days so they started messaging my alt alliance account that they didn't have on ignore and framed me that I would message them lol. They got my horde account and alt account banned for 3 days lol
I remember the AQ opening and people actually abused the automated ban/mute function that blizzard implemented if you report someone to deny the scarab lord mount... Fucking cunts
@Andy_ true haha you don't know how many I have met there are so many of them in classic
@Andy_ id say thats accurate xd
Zack, you are truly becoming a much better role model for people I think. You have your fun and play your character on stream, but overall you do have a fairly balanced take on many topics. I will always appreciate videos like this.
I'm not sure if it's exactly what you're talking about in terms of toxicity, but I wanted to share. I'm a boy, and on the spectrum. When I was younger, right after my Dad died, I met a really nice lady on Wow. She was super nice to me, but then she started getting weird, but I had never had a friend as good as her, so I went along with it to keep her happy.
I basically got groomed and SA'd when I was extremely vulnerable. She realized partway through how bad she'd look for what she did, so she lied to our guildies and GMs, said I was harassing her. I lost most of my friends: they either believed her, didn't care, didn't stop to ask me, or downplayed it.
Some of the GMs last words have stuck with me to this day. "I should have enjoyed it."
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Long vid. Honestly the whole situation is really messy considering the actual company is at war with its self. I don't think that players can ever really have a full perspective on what's going on inside the company, but ultimately it's not the player's responsibility to settle for a shitty product just to placate the devs even if the devs are facing problems. That doesn't justify harassment, and that goes for the players and double for the developers. I see this as just the storm that will lead to the reorganization of the devs and the game. Kind of like a great flood event. Either the game and company will address the issues improve or it will continue to die.
Facts man, couldn't have put it better!
'ultimately it's not the player's responsibility to settle for a shitty product just to placate the devs even if the devs are facing problems.' thank you
Long video but at least not scripted. I like that hands-on approach.
What I think must happen? Blizzard must *'for starters'* give Alliance players something as _"insignificant"_ as real, playable, blue eyes, HIGHELVES aka *QUEL'DOREI.*
NOBODY WANTED THE VOIDELVES, the many dumb reasons Blizzard threw forward to do it WERE ALSO NOTHING ANY ALLIANCE PLAYER WANTED and so we want the orignal, most traditional and remaining Thalassian Elves as our allys.
It started with disrespectful, unfulfished wishes like this, since true Classic, but also since WotLK, that the arrogant & player contemptious behaviour started.
I *DEMAND* to be respected as a customer. I am not some dumb cattle that pays regardless of whats happening!
@@FreedomAndPeaceOnly They should probably look into the balance of factions before anything else, doesnt matter what races they add if the whole faction is like 2 guilds still playing.
Zack, I am a girl, I played WOW for over ten years and now stopped with Shadowlands. I was a mount collector, not as good as you, but you were always an idol for me in that department. I was harrassed multiple times. I was called names, I had to hear the same jokes, flirts or comments every day. And I have a really thick skin. A lot of males tend to stalk you, even in your guild. You are nice = for some that means it is okay to claim you, like an object, to obsess about you. I loved my guild members, but those things were a daily thing. I was laughing about them, because else I wouldn't have been taken seriously. I had to deal with this to even be taken seriously as a gamer.
That said, I want to say, Zack, that in the years I watched you, I never was offended by anything you said. You were never sexist or abusive towards women. You played a role in a lot of competitions, mean words an all, but people calling the words 'bitch, big dick or whatever' toxic are the real problem. I never felt that you discriminated against women and I find it disgusting that people try to blame you for everything that is wrong with this community. It's Blizzard's fault and it's those people's fault.
I like though, that you seem a lot happier since you started playing FF. We all know, and you yourself said, that you did some shit, but this game seems to be at least fun for you, which is great and I hope you will have a lot more fun with it.
PS: I have two store mounts, I was spit on, and I was okay with it.
And the fact that a lot of people even use that deliberately obscure term "toxic" is part of the problem. The same people that call words like "bitch, big dick" and so on toxic, are the people that subscribe to a set of ideas that birthed that term. They are the same people that call Asmon or anyone else toxic for liking skimpy outfits in fiction. Why can't people call things by their name? This shit doesn't fix anything, only makes matters worse.
Completely agree with that. Was he or is he an asshole at times? Yes, but he is not toxic. He doesn't manipulate people, he doesn't abuse them, nothing like that. The people living in a bubble are so far away from real life that they feel the need to get more sense in their lives, and that is often times policing other people with ideals and morals that are usually was worse than what they even see before them. All these buzzwords play into that.
This is mind blowing, I never had this in FFXIV and I play that game since arr release
@@LittleSparklingStars I personally also didn't have this in FF when I played it! Occasionally a joke, but nothing that severe at all. It's like Zack said, it was always toxic and the obsession and frustration with the game is breeding toxicity unfortunately.
But happy that you have a great time!
Maybe it is just my experience, but I used to play in a progressive raid guild in original TBC, and played tactical raid lead in a friend's guild once a week during that time, and in my sister's guild during WotLK as a raid officer... In all those groups I had fun and felt part of a community. In the last 5+ years I have found it almost impossible to find friendly people enjoying their leisure time online, they are behind a miasma of vitriol and impatience. Maybe I'm just getting old; 'something something kids these days'. I know there are still cool people out there, just harder these days.
*My story of harassment:*
Not quite vitriol but cost me a lot of nerves over time. Some time in early to mid WoD when I would also stream a viewer (at that point anonymous) from the stream asked me if I'd play skirmish/rated etc with him. It was fine for me because it benefits both players for these goals. And at that point I must have given him my little finger and slowly over time he went for the entire arm. Several sessions later he became too demanding, so I removed him from the bnet and called an end to this. So now he would whisper me with ever more characters or write on twitch as passive aggressive as one could get. No real insults but just an overall annoyance. Since he was never too rude at that point and showed at least some remorse I never put him on ignore. As things cooled off he approached me months later for pvp etc. Same routine again and I put him on ignore. So now he would make new characters to beg/annoy me with demands of not being on ignore. He would harass 2 of my raidmembers (if not more). At some point I told him he should seek professional help and make sure to put all chars on ignore that I could find over his personal guild armory. Now he'd make extra accounts on twitch and harass me, my viewers and of course other guild members streaming. It was never threatening or vitriolic, just absolutely passive aggressive. One viewer once chatted in private with him (on twitch) and he'd tell him he knew my address (which was false) and made veiled threats. I contacted twitch on this, nothing happened. He also got access to the raid Teamspeak and would lurk around under a random name until being IP blocked.
Ingame: I reported him multiple times on my behalf. And on alts I would see him post race-baity shit and other political divisive stuff in tradechat to rial up others. In addition for harassing me I reported it everytime (on alts) when I'd see these /2 posts and as far as I know he NEVER suffered any consequences.
Ill people
them being passive aggressive IS threatening. it's them asserting they have the ability to find you and contact you no matter what you do. it's them showing they can always find some way to get into your life, get into your friend's lives, and do their damnedest to make you miserable till you give them what they want. just because they aren't directly attacking or threatening you with physical harm, does NOT mean it isn't threatening.
Stay strong Zack. You´re one of the best and no one can tell me otherwise.
it’d be wrong to dispute facts 😤🤟
nice GS profile pic
Thank you for making this video. I'm a female gamer and started playing wow in 2005. I have put an enormous amount of effort into protecting myself from toxicity and harassment. At first, I avoided getting into voice chat and never revealed that I was female. When I eventually found a guild where I could be myself, I stayed in the bubble of that guild for 14 years. I used to pug a lot, but gradually, my pugging slowed until I had a very toxic dungeon run during Cata. After that, I swore off pugging.
In time, I became the guild master, made the rules, kicked out the turds. Other women who found their way into my guild mentioned to me that they really appreciated that the guild was a place where it was safe to be female. There's a pattern that I observed more than once where I would invite someone new to join the guild. They would hang out for a week or two, and then their wife or girlfriend would join. I never asked why these women didn't just join straight off. I don't need to. I already know the answer. Many guilds aren't safe.
In many ways, I was lucky because of my guild bubble. My experience was less about what did happen, and more about fear of what could have happened. I honestly didn't realize how much the toxicity of wow affected me until I ran my first pug in FFXIV a few weeks ago. I had so much anxiety about the run that I was trembling the whole time. All that stress for a noob dungeon it's possible to sleepwalk through. After so many years playing wow and expecting toxicity, I find it hard to get used to the idea that people just won't be abusive.
This reads like you were a double agent infiltrating an adversarial goverment and then successfully pulling off a coup. Good job, though sad that you felt the need to. Anyway, hope FFXIV treats you well.
I relate to your post a great deal. I've played MMOs since the late 90s, and also have put a lot of effort into protecting myself from toxicity and harassment, through many of the same methods. I've always been careful to join guilds with either people I know well in real life, or who I've gamed with for an extended period of time before joining. The guilds that I join tend to have an older player base with husband/wife teams and often their kids; guilds who don't tolerate harassment or obnoxious behavior. I've also observed many times where husbands will join a guild and then have their wives added a week or so later after they confirmed it wasn't toxic.
The community is more toxic because more people are upset with the game and they inadvertently vent their frustration in poor ways. The health of the game is indicative of the community response and relationship. Sure, the game will always have toxic players, but the people who generally aren't as toxic are usually more casual and not as connected to the game, and will quit, rather than stay and be mad about it.
The FF community is generally less toxic because they're more pleased with the game, they're not inherently salty about shit so they don't promote and proliferate the toxicity amongst the community. Whereas WoW players have a thousand things to be upset about with the game, rightly so, and those who don't quit for one reason or another are more likely to be salty and more toxic because there is high likelihood that they have issues with the game. I don't know anyone who likes Shadowlands, but I know a few people who still play it. That is the epitome of breeding toxicity.
I agree on that i would be way less toxic if the game is more fun. Of course i'm mad if i have to run the same dungeons 20 times to get a piece of loot or getting killed in arena in 0.4 seconds from 100 to 0. All the issues the game have these days and all the stupid stuff blizzard wants you to do just makes u angry about the fact ur in this shit.
Make a good game be aware of idiots too maybe and the community will be fine too.
The video was only out for like 2 minutes when you posted this o_O
As an outsider, WoW always seemed toxic to me, even in its prime. The amount of griefing and elitism was part of the experience since the beginning. I think it’s only recently that the toxicity has spilled outside the game because of how the player base is treated by the devs, company, content creators, etc.
Another important aspect in my opiniion is toxicity being punished , in FF if someone is being a dick and toxic and he is reported the gms actually do something , meanwhile in wow people are toxic with impunity(that and the game being frustrating to play as you said ) , that is a problem that i felt for years playing Lol too , toxicity running rampant without moderation and the game being frustranting to play leads to a shitshow.
FFXIV has good moderation too. And there is this commendation system which can be a "healthy outlet". I main healer and when I feel upset with how a veteran tank plays, I could just opt out of giving them commendations, instead of talking shit or griefing at them. 😂
Even then, I often feel bad after it when I noticed that my party give me comms. Happened so many times that I'm now just like, "fuck it, take my comms though you play badly".
It's true... any game that we play as a girl and it's known harassments follows. We have to suck it up because well they state, "it's a joke" or "they're joking" just so they can get away with it.
Hey man, I can speak for a LOT of people to say Rest In Peace to your wonderful mother, we are so sorry man, it’s gotta be the toughest thing a son can go through. All the love in the world all the love from your fans is probably just the smallest of bandaids on a infinitely large wound, but we’re rooting for you brother. Personally, I appreciate your real life thoughts and opinions as a breath of fresh air in the online gaming industry, and I value the fact that you’re well spoken whilst being grounded in reality, and your character is relatable and brings immense comfort to so many. We appreciate you bro.
Also the following is perhaps a little out of pocket but I remember reading spider man, and aunt may died, and the one above all came to Peter and showed him all the good he had done in his life, all the people he had helped or saved, because Peter said he would give it all back, being Spider-Man and everything, to resurrect his aunt, but the countless thousands he aided brought him some comfort. A weird analogy and obviously there’s quite a high chance that there’s no parallel between your emotions and those of Peter Parker’s in this context, but It just reminded me of your situation, even if you don’t see it that way. Perhaps you feel streaming may have taken some time away from her, or x, y and z, but the amount of people you’ve gotten through the day is uncountable over the course of your career. You’re very valued and we’re all wishing you the best and are very grateful for the time you’ve given us and understand the time you need of course. Thanks again man, keep the glass half full when you can day to day right now.
Your haters show their true colors. They clearly have no idea how thoughtful, insightful, and level headed you truly are. Their loss, cause you are a gem. Stay awesome, my dude!
I would really like it if Asmon/Zach picked some of the comments on this video and reached out to the harassed individuals to have them talk about their experiences on stream, and the action or inaction taken by Blizzard or whichever Company in question.
I know it may not be a hugely popular stream, but it would be far more likely to be seen and spread than the comment section of his personal account, and I would certainly listen to the VOD on the Asmongold TV UA-cam Channel.
this idea has potential
This is good
I've gone through the stages, I'm no longer in denial, or anger.. I'm just heartbroken and disappointed now. I hope they can really make a positive change within the company and community.
During WoD, I had a stalker who had accomplices. They and their friends would find me wherever I was whenever I was logged in and would chase me around, spamming toys, killing mobs, harassing people that played with me too. I issued several tickets, but no action was taken against them. I quit the game after that.
Edit: I did come back for Legion with an addon that stopped players from finding me with player search. But, I started losing interest in the game after Legion.
I was tracked down by people who randomly attacked me once, I just told them to leave me alone. It ended up in me having to go offline for months, any new alt I made they would track down. Blizzard? Nah they were oke with it! I still never know what I did wrong. These people were recent invites and who were RL friends of the guild leader they took everything from me... I got the last laugh because after they convinced the guild leader to kick me after bullying so much I took over half the guild with me. They went from clearing HC in WoD to not being able to form raids in just 5 weeks.
The last drop was when I just said happy Christmas when logging and got spammed and attacked my sanity broke. Why people are like this are beyond ever since most of my chars remain unguilded out of safety. Meanwhile I was leading HC Archimonde mount gift kill on a weekly they lost the guild they hijacked because they gave it such a bad reputation nobody wanted to play with them, let alone them. Everybody knew on the server I was one of most friendlist, honest and fair people around and to get me mad that much. Kicking me out was their downfall. Nowadays every time I see that guild name I still asociate it with anger and I'm suprised they were never banned.
Example: If they were late it always excused, I was late once because of traffic had to listen to them screaming for something out of my control? I was 3 minutes late... YES SORRY! Next time I tell the owners of the bridge to keep it closed because I have a raid to attend. Anathor one: raid started at 20:30 and I always arrived 20:25-20:30. Got called out, half of them always were atleast 5 minutes late and often 10 minutes but never got called out... Whiel I arrived fully buffed ready to go instantly plenty of time a raid that was supposed to start 20:30 started at 20:50 or later just waiting for them to arrive or get ready. The people their names are ingrained in my brain and every time I see those character names I feel disgust in the pit of my stomach. Worst part I see they are still doing the same behaviour till this day.
The part that worries me is that, if Blizzard decides to actually do something about it, I feel like they're more likely to screw it up than not. The worst scenario is getting a bunch of mods who don't accept appeals, have no oversight or transparency, and have zero understanding of nuance or context (e.g. banning someone for greeting a close friend with a derogatory term even when that friend is perfectly fine with it). it's clear that something should be done, but I don't think the employees at Blizzard are the right people to do it.
My worst experience in WoW was in a lfg dungeon, I was the tank, we wiped on a boss, the healer said I was trash and did a vote kick, I got kicked instantly without having time to say anything. I looked at the logs and the healer had not healed me once. The other players just went along with it. I have been playing FFXIV for a few years now and I have yet to experience that kind of behavior there.
I've had people follow me and spam every slur they could think of, sometimes with players from the opposite faction to run up and gank as they're spamming. Then you report those people to Blizzard and the ticket just seems to not go anywhere. Of course it could be worse and stuff like that is easy enough to just walk away and shrug off but it does make the game worse. It's a toxicity that doesn't improve the player experience for anyone and the fact it exists is 100% a failure on Blizzard's part.
Women in Overwatch ranked lobbies would get blasted with sexist comments about their body shapes, sounds of their voice and gameplay based on their gender.
I myself would get racist remarks about my accent. Thats just the racist and sexist parts. Overwatch was a bubbling pool of hate, anger and frustration in team chat that ultimately made fun relaxing times playing a video game into a psychatric analysis on why my team mate resorts to telling my other team mate to "rope themselves" or "chop their hands off" for playing mercy.
I don't think I've noticed even a tiny change in the toxicity levels in that games voice chat in the thousand hours I've been into it since launch. Its more than just a WoW issue for sure.
I hope things got better for you over time dude!
I've only ever received confirmation of action taken on multiboxing hackers. No response to a racist, sexist, transphobic guy that flamed and trolled a Mythic+ dungeon.
Your profile picture looks like a Rust character 🤣
To me that's a huge part of the problem, that tickets/reports largely go ignored by BLIZZ but hey if they are having trouble keeping their hands to themselves IRL how can we expect them to care what happens to pixels. I have had people spam me all sorts of fouls things. Everybody is a toughguy from the safety/anonymity provided by the computer screen. Bunch of Keyboard warriors,
Good video. Another female gamer here and have gotten unsolicited harassments my entire life. I get spammed with asking for nudes, people spam messaging me, and trying to be very touchy feely and then complete horrific behavior when turned down.
On another note, I've noticed more and more if you say you don't like something someone else does, they turn it into a personal attack on them. You can't give honest opinions on a topic without the other party deciding that you are attacking them. Not liking something does not mean you don't like the person. Those things aren't in anyway connected.
I recently unsubbed before the last patch, but i was in a guild that was run by a woman and some of her friends male and female were officers. There was never any sexual jokes towards anyone in discord during raid nights. You would get joked at for just about everything else but sexual harassment was not tolerate in that guild. Its was nice because i been in primarily male run guilds and its normally quite the opposite
I'm not a lady but I frequently play with several. My younger sister and a close friend of mine being two of them. The male gaming community mindset is terrifying. My sister refuses to use voice in most games we play if randoms are involved. My friend has an ignore list twice the length of my 15 year long friendlist (at least 30 names on there) from just playing one year.
They both use names that are not typically female as to not be discovered as ladies but it's unfortunately ineviteble that someone who knows them from the group refers to them as she or her at one point or another, most of the time when this happens, private harassment ensue.
I've always thought this was gamer culture in general but after being part of the FFXIV community for about a year now I am under the impression that it's not the case. I might be wrong, I am not exactly a prime target for sexism or racism being a white dude but I am under the impression that FFXIV has carved most of that toxicity out of their community somehow.
But you are absolutely right, wow is very problematic to play and feel part of the community as a female.
Its complete abhorrent behavior and your example of the ignore list is a great testament to the toxicity in online games.
Being a girl its always been hard to play MMORPGs let alone any online game. I've had to lean more into more androgynies names over the years to avoid the sphere that is the middle school stunted mentality that permeates gaming in general. It's been hard to find girls in gaming to avoid this due to those spheres always working their way into daily life as a female gamer. The Keyboard makes anyone into a GOD. This wont change until the systems between players (chat systems, report systems, general chat channels, etc. etc. ) are inherently anti gross/troll. Obviously the companies that make our games need to stop being dumbshits and start being gamers again. "something about Xerox something about marketing people" - Stever Jobers
While you're correct about alot of your post, there's a sizable percentage of the female population in mmos who enjoy alot of this attention, positive or negative, because they dont get it irl because they arent very attractive or have low self esteem or any number of other reasons, and they can be downright hostile to other women like you, because if you happen to join their guild, you siphon away attention from them, while the idea of a girls only guild with more positive vibes is great, try to form one, i dont expect it to be successful without you being a famous streamer yourself
Guys are triggered by the presence of women because it reminds them about the lack of women in their life
Literally I have had 0 issues in ffxiv and I am a woman playing this game since release.
Been playing WoW since TBC. Always thought that Asmon was this goofy wow guy that I never watched or followed. Some random loot goblin who makes funny videos that I never had interest in. But this year I started to follow him and watch his stuff. From wow stuff to D and D, playing other games or just talking and found him to be very reasonable, intelligent and person who uses logic and mostly thinks before he says something. Much respect and love. Great vid. Keep it up.
Hey Zach, I know this is not the appropriate video and you may never see this. I just heard about your mom and I wanted to express how sorry I am for your loss. Know that you have a massive family and community. Not just with viewers but with other streamers and wow players. I never saw your mom on stream or watched videos of her, but if she was able to raise such a thoughtful guy, she must have done an amazing job. Know that she lives on through you everyday of your life. You are her pride and joy and im sire of that.
- just another viewer who cares
When a business is no longer interested in hearing what the customers have to say then your only option is to move on, there is almost always an alternative. When you complain that something is bad but then keep on paying for it you're sending the wrong signals.
I'm a woman with a rather masculine voice, and as you might imagine this has gotten me a lot of comments from the community. It's honestly exhausting to hear the same shit again and again, "only guys on the internet" "if you're a girl, prove it" "show us nudes and we'll believe you".
It's at the point that I have a complex about my voice, and I dread introducing myself to new people because of the childish attitude from this community and most others.
Yeah and if you were a guy with a lisp you would get the same shit.... get thicker skin
@@Ge01O I'm the same. I used to get shit all the time from people asking if I was a girl because I have a deeper voice. Yes, so? If they keep being annoying just block them. Problem solved. It's not exhausting rofl.
Man its actually crazy how its been 3 years ever since u stopped posting here. I miss these type of videos
Can't ever recall a time WoW was known for its stellar community. Twitch trolls isn't something I'm familiar with, but harassing people in their own streams certainly seem like something toxic people would do, so that adds up. And Blizz/Activision are literally one of the worst gaming companies right now so they got nothing to be proud of. Their refusal to acknowledge any fault is just evidence of their incompetence. Maybe the Devs and community deserve each other.
At i agree with yous on dis one fing stunti
This is a very important conversation and I'm happy that Zack is giving his own take on the issue. Seriously.
For real Leonardo
I have read a lot of the comments from other female players - it’s upsetting and mind blowing to see how many stories are similar to each other, similar to mine. Harassment, stalking, threats, explicit unwanted sexual content said and sent to us. Having to change names, leave guilds, not talk in vent, transfer servers, quit the game. Damn … just damn.
Everybody gets crapped on every once in a while. it's a part of gaming. The only difference is, the guys don't complain about it as much. Most of the time if you fire back with something quick and witty, people will leave you alone. I don't care for people that shit on others in games, but i don't feel bad for people who don't stick up for themselves either.
@@LaptopmenaceMTK ew
@@Eilhea small brain, small response
@@LaptopmenaceMTK ironic
@@Eilhea can't think of anything to say, so you just mouth breathe whatever comes out on your keyboard.
This is more of a general complaint about the community. I felt a tremendously greater amount of toxicity with Shadowlands from the community than ever before, and I'd been playing since Vanilla; particularly with pugging regular dungeons. Virtually every single dungeon run I did (and I probably did at least 2-3 a night for weeks) was filled with people who only wanted to run and clear the dungeon at breakneck speed by trying to skip every, single, mob pack in the dungeon.
And god forbid somebody accidentally pulled one of the mobs because then you would get fucking chewed out mercilessly for causing the SLIGHTEST inconvenience with the dungeon run. And I'm not talking about those extra mob packs that are obviously just there in the distance for background padding, but the ones right in the middle of chokepoints or ones that aggressively pat or something.
And honestly, I wouldn't really have cared at all if this happened with groups, specifically tanks, who were obscenely overgeared and just churned through stuff, but 90% of the time it was with tanks who were dogshit, tunnel-visioned, and under-geared who would try to do all this aggressive skipping, chain-pulling, and bull-rushing ahead; then of course promptly blaming everyone else in the group for screwing up.
I get that trash mobs suck but you know what sucks more? Having to keep corpse running back because every moron wants to shave off 30-45 seconds per mob pack and treating every regular dungeon run like it was a fucking Mythic+ and we were on an extreme time crunch.
this is the reason i stopped doing dungeons generally in wow whenever i played, and especially whenever i play a tank myself. No room for error, going too slow is bad, not being experienced in the dungeon is bad...can't do anything right if you're new to a dungeon and you get shit on for it. so nty, i'll mount farm the dungeon 1 or 2 expansions later.
I came back to WoW when Shadowlands launched and left for this exact reason. I never understood if those people were having a bad day or always behaved like that but I got so sick of it I just never logged in again and let my subscription expire.
@@merpiderp Perfectly said. Going too slow? You suck. Being cognizant of healer mana? You're shit. Pulling conservatively to learn the dungeon and boss mechanics? You're garbage. Razor-thin or nonexistent margins of error for regular dungeons like they were world-first raid kills or some shit. Absolutely insane. I don't know if that's just a symptom of the game being around for so long that people *think* that everyone should know everything about the game, mechanics, and be smooth and confident in every role or what. This stuff always happened once in a while in the past, I remember it happening sometimes in Legion too, but it was the exception not the rule. With Shadowlands, that shit just got cranked up to 11 so much that I did the same as you, pretty much just gave up on all pugs and would just farm achievements, mogs, and mounts instead.
Bro the people who have to do everything as fast as possible and act like they don't have any time on their hands whilst playing a fucking video game do my head right in.
Like clearly your free time isn't that valuable if you're spending it playing WoW, you don't need to do everything at world record pace, slow down and allow yourself to enjoy the fucking game for gods sake.
you are not the person i thought you were. sorry about that!
I left wow for FF mostly because the community was toxic AF.
i was playing both but one day i saw someone post something emotionally vulnerable in ff chat. every one was nice and understanding.
and then i thought of wow general or trade chat.... then my mind was made up.
Yo just a random here but I needed to say... People that can dismiss their projections onto people are gold.
You are gold, 24 carat. Wishing you all the best.
@@cj-iq4nj hear hear!
As a girl who has played World of Warcraft for seven years now (recently unsubbed due to the controversy) thank you for addressing this issue with toxicity and harassment especially towards women, which I find often goes under the radar. WoW was the first game where I ever used voice chat, knowing that communication was important for raids. I distinctly remember the first time I turned on my microphone, after my guild members begged me to talk, that the first thing they did was mock me. "Isn't it past your bedtime, little boy?" I swear, those words will be burned into my mind for the rest of my life. I was only fifteen at the time, but I panicked and said I was eighteen so that they wouldn't think that I was a young boy. This, of course, made them believe that it was me giving them permission to say suggestive things to me and ask me for pictures of myself. No matter what I was doing, even if it was just running dungeons completely by myself, I'd get whispers from guild members harassing me.
After that, I hopped guilds, experiencing similar issues in every single one. It had gotten to the point where I had considered transferring servers because I had been in every single guild on the server, but I knew the harassment wouldn't stop, so I took a break from the end of Legion until the last patch of BfA, where I came back with a more raid-focused and serious mindset. I joined a guild that had been progging on mythic Nyalotha, but hit a wall when their raid leader was poached by another guild. Having just come back to the game I was glad that I had been able to get on a raid team so late that had progged so far, and I stayed with them until the start of Nathria.
They still didn't have a raid lead, and I understood the mechanics of the raid very well, so I tried my best to raid lead and shot call since no one else was stepping up to do it. However, it was only when I started talking that others in the raid thought it would be best to talk over me, with my directions always going completely ignored. I often had to raise my voice in order to get others to listen to me, which gave me the "angry woman" label, earning me even less respect. I brought these issues to the guild master, who pretended to understand my plight, assuring me that the problem would be addressed and that he would get others to listen to me, and that the worst offenders would be spoken to. So he called a guild meeting over Discord to discuss that, along with some other issues that had been going on with the guild. As soon as he began to talk, he changed his tune completely, telling me in front of everyone that I had no right to demand to be treated differently from everyone else, and that there was no need for me to raid lead at all. He humiliated me in front of 30+ people, undermining any shred of authority I might have had. I felt completely disrespected, and I knew that this wouldn't have happened to me if I wasn't a woman. I immediately left the guild, and in the last guild I was in before I quit, I was simply known as "the mute". It's better for me not to say anything at all than try to take things into my own hands, because this community is convinced that women don't know how to play World of Warcraft.
Hey :) Woman here as well. Officer, at times RL and loot master in the guild I'm in in classic. Seems to me you have hit some really bad apples and the GM in your last guild seems like a real jerk. Did your guild have a designated RL at that point? Might have helped a lot if you officially got the label as it would also give you authority. I know from our guild that we never let normal raiders dictate or shot call too much in raids as it can lead to pure anarchy very fast. Is very important to keep the chain of command clear cut. Just to make it absolutely clear, I'm not blaming you when saying that. Not at all. Just thinking you might have had more success with these asshole if you had been given the proper rank
To my experience (as a man), “chain of command” works relatively well in Mythic guilds, but not in Heroic / Normal.
Even so, when Mythic progress hits a wall for a few weeks, your ability to lead / strategize will be questioned. It’s inevitable. This is not the IRL army :)
I think the important bit is that the feedback [you receive] is respectful and constructive.
Sadly this is rarely the case, and it saddens me that so many women are abused online :(
I (M) have been friends with a woman I met on WoW 3 years ago now. Never once heard her voice, but I know she is female as she has never once done anything catfishy. She said she had her reasons for never once speaking. I assume her story is not so different from yours in why she has opted to never speak in voice. Though I wish she was comfortable with the idea of being able to speak with I and other friends she has known awhile, we have never pressed her about it for this fact we know something happened perhaps like your story. It's a real shame that the wow community has been grounds for such sexism or general rudeness.
@@Asivah I totally agree with you, and don't worry, I wasn't trying to take the role away from anyone else. We had a raid lead for Heroic prog on Nath, but once we got into Mythic our RL left the guild. I stepped up to shot call for one raid night, and a few of the members in the raid whispered me afterwards saying that they liked my leading and that I should message the GM to make it official. Just like he said he understood how I felt when I was being harassed by people, he told me also that he thought I would make a good fit for the raid leader position, and I was given an officer role in the guild. But then when I brought up the harassment later down the line and he told me he'd call a guild meeting for it, he acted like he never said that he would let me raid lead (even though there would be no other reason why I would have been promoted to officer otherwise)
@@Lucario997 holy shit well that just made the whole thing even more crazy and ridiculous O.o wtf... Really sorry you had to experience that. Those people were the lowest of low, but please don't give up completely on people in games. I promise you that there are good people out there. Personally I won't touch retail again, but have had a blast in classic. And there are many games with far better communities out there
Thank you for this video Zack, it needed to be said. I started playing WoW when I was 14 and I've learned that to protect myself, I have to stay as hidden as possible to avoid harassment. I remember guildies, raid members, friends of friends finding out I was female and harassing me, even when I was underage and they knew it. I was asked for pics, asked if I would get on voice with them, and hounded ceaselessly for attention. I remember one guildie who did this for months, but the moment he found out I wasn't white he got mad at me for "leading him on".
As a teenager I didn't have very much self worth and WoW made it so much worse. I met someone so toxic in WoW when I was 17 that they convinced me to give them my number, and he got so controlling that I would get 30+ missed calls of threats and guilt-tripping if I was somewhere he didn't know about. It was stupid of me to give him my number at all, but I was freshly in university and not adjusting well, and he convinced me that he was trying to protect me.
I left WoW in WoD and have never looked back. I got back into your content again when you started playing FF, and this video made me realize that I'm still protecting myself. I'm happily married, but in most online spaces (including Twitch) I share accounts with my husband and use his username because it's more masculine and doesn't draw attention. Harassment online is a real problem.
I cant wrap my head around how unprofessional some Blizzard devs are and not getting fired
When you sexually assault your staff, calling players Toxic is pretty minor
Especially those who put he/him or she/shem in there twitter bio
Stop calling for people to get fired. Blizzard devs are people too and deserve not to be harrased.
The entire studio is ran unprofessionally. Even if you're victimized, you can still be unprofessional - they're not mutually exclusive.
@@Aliexei this is specifically about the devs who harass people. not just regular randoms. reading comprehension
My example gets dwarfed by most of the stories here, but I think it’s indicative of something that had plagued WoW since day 1.
When Classic WoW came out, there was a lot of optimism in the air. That first week was amazing. I joined a guild on Stonepine EU, the GM didn’t come online anymore, so we created our own guild. However there was this one guy who was just an asshole the entire time. Even though I was the GM of the new guild, I couldn’t really remove him without tearing the guild apart. Eventually he left for a more serious guild and tore a big hole into the guild. His attitude was very indicative of the WoW communities worst traits. Elitism, toxicity, indiscriminate hatred.
players have optimized the fun out of the game
I don't have any personal stories, I'm pretty lucky with having a deep voice, but one reason I stopped playing WoW back in Wrath was how often I'd get in a pug, a person with a feminine or childish voice would enter voice chat, and immediately they'd be pounced on with all sorts of misogynist comments. I had a healer friend who was the best healer I ever played with, and she would never talk in voice chat in the guild that was full of her personal IRL friends and her fiance because of how many bad experiences she had. People using "autistic" and "cancer" as a general insult also got to me in Legion times. My wife is autistic, I am ADHD, and my dad has cancer. None of us are your punching bags, women deserve to be able to talk in voice chat, and these jokes aren't funny. And Blizzard doing nothing about it is why no Blizzard game has ever been my favorite game for longer than a few months. I love WoW, I love Overwatch, I spent a lot of time in HotS, but I always just left because of how often chat would fuck things up for me.
I agtee with you fully about using ADHD and Autism as an insult. It's really bad and not ok.
But I always felt like "cancer" is actually an insult that expresses sympathy for people with cancer. It's used as an insult because cancer is a horrible and bad thing that no one should endure.
Also I hope your dad kicks the cancer's ass and recovers
Flow you should only call people cancer when their literal existence is killing you slowly :)
Someone made fun of a rando in voice chat 10 years ago... Hold my pearls... the world needs to know about this!
@@Flowo Well he has had it since Legion so lets hope he lives.
Why are you taking that personally? Nobody is specifically targeting you and using you as a punching bag like you say. The world is full of assholes whether you’re on a game or not sometimes you just have to learn to ignore people.
They've handled this problem in game exactly as well as they've handled it in their business affairs, which is to say not at all.
R.I.P. To Asmongolds mom :(
Having to play male characters and act male really blows when playing online. You're constantly pretending to be someone else out of fear of the harassment you ultimately get having dared step into your local male gamers turf. This shroud only lasts so long because you also want to see what the game has to offer and making friends is a part of that experience. You want to raid? You have to talk. VC, vent, discord, etc... Once that is lifted you're constantly getting whispers from "friendly" guys who just want to push and hit on you. It's never any different. They ask for more info than they need, try to get info to talk off the game.
Constant PMs, drunk guild members hitting on you nightly, the way they address you. The list goes on. It's so fucking annoying and it's ruined so many aspects of the thing I love. My final day in wow was sometime last year because my guild leader found out who I was and proceeded to badger me and spam my shit asking way too personal stuff because he felt like he could after I opened up a little. Blocked him, uninstalled wow, and deleted my launcher. Never again.
So many times i've thought I've finally found that right space in a guild only for it to be ruined by people you trust. It's also poured into my real life with fellow guild members i've wanted to meet in person only to be assaulted by one of them. I went back to FF for a little while but i just don't want to make any friends because I don't trust anyone and yet again feel like i get to miss out on things due to it.
Anyway have fun reading the word vomit to anyone interested. I love your content Zack. Stay good.
Fellow female gamer - FF has been great for me as there are so many more women in the game. It's the first game I've played with no harassment and a friendly mixed gendered space which makes me feel like my gender is irrelevent, how it should be. If you want to give it a try with a fellow female, I'm on Light Lich server - pm me if you want :)
That's crazy...Jesus people online suck I read this all and it reminded me of a friend who used to raid with me in FF 14 and she was our Astro. All the guys bombarded her with messages, wanting to fall asleep in Discord with her, buy her raid stuff, wanting her to go on cam etc it goes on, one of the guys got her phone number since they lived in the next state over and the guy literally would not stop. She talked a little bout the general location of where she lived but not the street and the guy was texting her going "i'm in your town wanna hang out??" like 10 times til he called her and left her voice mails of him yelling into his phone, was so messed up.
Her and I still talk but she doesn't play FF anymore we just play Dead by Daylight because there's no voice chat and we have our own personal discord because the harassment was so bad.
sounds terrible, hope you're doing better!
Sorry for the experience. My current FC in FF14 is one of the biggest on our server and the leader is a female along with her boyfriend. One of the FC officers is also female and we have a few other female players that are quite active in the fc, some more than others. A few of them have participated in raids or farming events with the guys using the FC discord and it's always been a positive experience all around for them, at least from what I have seen. I would definitely encourage you to keep it up in 14 and don't feel the need to pressure yourself to make friends or find an FC. Been playing 14 for 3-4 years now and have only been in this FC for 1 year, solo the rest of the time.
Never had this perspective. Some of the greatest friends I made on WoW were chicks. I understand clearly now, I was playing with them the whole time. Thank you.
I killed a mob in BCC and then just as the mob died I got a party inv, mob was dead so I declined and flew away. This waock flew after me spamming to kill myself. Ignored all the ats this person was going on spamming me to kill myself. I even talked to this person's GM and this GM told me to stop being a Karen, 😂. Made a ticket with print screens and names. Nothing happened to this person. Spammed me the very next day I logged on. Dedication.
Did the GM tell you to stop being a Karen? wtf
Man, thats not what a Karen is. What a buzzword regurgitating sheep that GM is.
@@panimala With GM I think he means the Guild Master of the person telling him to kys. Not a Game Master.
Just play FF14 they'd never allow this harassment to happen
I'm new to your streams. I've played MMORPGs since UO, so roughly 25 years? I'm a dude in his early 40's. I don't watch people play video games, its never been my thing but I like you, I recently got in to FFXIV and if I'm being honest, I haven't had this much fun and enjoyed an MMORPG since vanilla WoW and that was a long fucking time ago. I've been chasing that white whale for years and I think I finally caught it. I'm kicking myself for not getting in to FF sooner. Anyway, I enjoy your streams for a lot of reasons - they're pretty god damn wholesome and its enjoyable to see someone legitimately enjoy something that I enjoy. Especially someone who had such a long "career" in another highly popular MMORPG. Keep doing what you're doing man. Remember, we're not married to a specific video game. You're also attracting a new audience with FF. I can't imagine the type of harassment you content creators have to go through on a daily basis and it sucks. Any other job wouldn't tolerate that shit but this job is kind of a contracting job in a sense. Anyway man, I enjoy your videos. Especially these ones where we get the "real" person behind the entertainer. Keep up the good work
I learned very quickly to not talk to people and ignore chat, whenever on voice chat to not talk either. Mostly in overwatch I stopped joining chat even in ranked, due to being blamed for losses and other things. In wow I’m not the best, but I try my best to learn new maps make sure I’m playing right so I get a fragile ego to the point I mute everyone who’s not a friend. I’ve had a lot of good experiences in wow. I love the guild that I am in, and appreciate them a FUCKTON. They make it a safe space so it was nice to be a girl gamer and have that not matter and to just have fun. But it would be nice in a game where I can be a girl and I don’t have to mute or block anyone. Will dream.
Also, been binging your tv vids. I actually finally got into fixing after 5 years.... yes 5 cuz fucking crating things is a bitch and they need to fix it. But it was fun keeping up w u. It’s been a nice experience on there too. No mutes so far lol! But I love wow. It has given me strong roots in my art. I saw lich king and was told it was a drawing and I realized I wanted to draw for them. Even keeping a flyer for hiring since 2006 and I still have it as my goal. All my art is medieval or fantasy, and it’s still my dream to work there. So seeing the allegations.... and finding... what they did... gives me a lot of mixed feelings. Taking a break on wow.... but I’m not going to stop drawing it and I will still pursue my art dream because it gave me the inspiration.
Also am drawing your ffxiv char, I posted a sketching Reddit, I like to joke. Lol. So thank you for saying something is gift when I finish
God I remember the times when I went to bed crying almost everytime I played Overwatch lol
I just want to play a game man, if I wanted to remember days of being bullied by guys I'd just go to school reunions
Yep chat is never anything constructive or helpful just some guy yelling about its everyone's fault but his that the team lost and he is hard stuck as a bronze dps.
@@JustAChinesePleb XD
Blizzard is right on que first they harrass women to suicide then they harass asmon and threaten to ban him
Let's be honest, in Overwatch it's all about performance. If you're doing a great job and the team is winning, nobody is gonna complain. If you're doing badly and losing, some people will go berserk, and trust me, your gender does not matter, they'll go crazy with insults no matter what, just the insults would ofc be different.
To me it's practically impossible to interact with anyone on the internet at large and games in particular from a geographic standpoint -- namely, sharing insights from my cultural point of view. It's essentially become a common meme or just an outright acceptable discourse to fulminate me based entirely on the fact I am from Israel (or that I also happen to be Jewish). I am literally incapable of bringing up the fact of where I was born and raised without instantly instigating a heated political discussion at best or a barrage of hatred at worst. There is nothing I hate more than pulling an identity card to absolve me of criticism -- but the fact of the matter is that I just want to play video games and have a fun community experience, and whereas other can relate experiences from Canada, or France, or Germany, or wherever, I am pretty much forced to never really mention anything about where I come from, lest people immediately jump down my throat about a conflict I never wished to be part of and honestly turned to WoW to escape in the first place.
Here's the thing, the people like me who don't care about where you're from or don't care about Israel's issues are the ones who just... don't say anything. So naturally most of the comments you'll get about where you're from will be negative in nature. If we were in a dungeon and you mentioned where you were from, my response would be "cool, now let's pull that pack over there."
I'm sure I don't get it nearly as bad as you, but I will say that when I mention to people that I'm from Canada, it often gets followed with a bunch of comments or jokes from Americans about how terrible Canada is and how we wouldn't exist without America's military muscle protecting us. Very rarely will people respond positively to hearing about where you're from, unless they live in the same state/province as you.
Commies lmao
my only question would be, do you believe in what your government does with going after palastinians or other hot topics? if not, then hey, we're cool. but if your personal views are as such that believe people deserve harm, then yea, i'd rather not interact with you, but i wouldn't hate on you if that was the case. it's the same thing with people assuming all amercians are gun toting, idiotic, racist and sexist assholes. not all are that way. i give the person a chance, no matter what, don't care where they are from.
@@nikkonikkoshite Here's a better question for you: why does it ever have to come to that discussion in the first place? I didn't come to Asmon's streams, or log into the game to talk about politics and have to constantly defend myself against other people's inquiries. The only way you would ascertain such a thing is by bringing it up in the first place. You speak about "condoning or condemning", but why must you put me (or anyone else for that matter) in a position where this line of questioning is at hand? What the fuck happened to just playing games and having fun? Why is literally everything politicized nowadays?
@@Hg-1-13 whoa, dude, take it easy. all i'm saying in short is, i don't care where you're from, as long as you don't advocate bringing harm to other people or engage in racist, sexist, or any homophobic behaviors, i would be your friend if we ever met. that's ALL i was saying.
So I've been with WoW since day 0(was a beta tester).. got the grand marshal title, the nice statue on their 10 year anniversary, AOTCs, and all that good stuff. I will say that in the past few expansions I have been saying that the game needs to reach its ending. The story has been going for quite some time and would be good to reach a ending so they can fast forward a bit and start a new game(WC4 and then WoW2), although now that most of the original creators are gone this would now worry me. And then there is my whole theory on how Legion, BFA, and Shadowlands is going a bit like the last 3 Star Wars movies. Anyway the current state of the World of Warcraft needs to reach a ending and give some closure because of how the story has been going, to give some breathing room to let them make a new game, and also to give us some time to enjoy some other things(I know some already do, but with how they have some of the systems in the game, it can make it hard for some people with lives outside WoW to do some of the things like keeping up on raiding and such).
Had a friend of mine during Cata and MoP organize small Ulduar runs for the chance of getting the mount, my friend is female. And without fail the first 20 minutes of trying to form the group was spent trying to weed out the people who could not handle a female being a raid leader and in charge of the run.
Those devs are toxic incompetent and unprofessional for attacking it's playerbase , i don't know how do they have their jobs still
Is Zack ever going to come back? He hasn't uploaded anything in a year... I miss his videos
I don't know if this qualifies as harassment, but If you friend someone's character in-game, you can track them without them knowing. There's no need for the other player to confirm or anything. I've always found that ... unsettling.
I can be questing alone and then someone will whisper me about what I was doing or where I was 3 days ago at 7PM and I'm just like ... "Who the fuck are you and why do you know that". It's happened quite a few times even, though so far it's never gone too far.
I don't like that. You can't block them until they talk to you, which "Hey they're just creeping on you" but like ... If they did start harassing me, they could easily create a new character, add my character and start over.
This happened to me a few times. I was overleveled in zones basically mining or herbing late-night or very early-morning on a NA server. When I asked them, they all had pretty much the same reply. They were trying to find out if I was a bot or not. Bots now have responses if you ask a yes/no question. So these guys often ask something that can't be answered that way. If they do get a simple yes/no, they'll report the bot or it helps them build up a list of names they can forward to Blizzard - not that they'll do anything about it.
@@mil2k11 I play on Moonguard so I don't quite think they're simply checking if I'm a bot lol.
Some people do add me secretly and just sit on that for a while. Then one day I'm doing Molten Core for fun and surprise whispers happen.
I don't social much so it's not a big deal for me. But I can definitely someone harass someone like that and there's almost nothing you can do that I can see.
We're with you Zack, through FF14 and Wow.
Blizzard needs to STOP with the design which milks every gameplay minute out of players.
In other words, stretching gameplay out unnecessarily. WQ's are a prime example of this, same with dungeons that are just ridiculously packed with mobs that might suddenly 1-2 shot your ass. When everything starts taking needlessly long it starts to feel like work, boring work. It has been like this since the start of BFA, i'm happy blizz is finally being shit on, this will hopefully compel them to actually make the game good again.
Oh and we need way more slutmogs for all armor types
Being a gay man and existing in the WoW space has exposed me to some of the most volatile hate speech ive experienced in any online game. I cant try and find groups in LFG chat unless I want to bear witness to some of the worst discourse and slurs that exist.
And faggot is just used so casually that even when its not directed at you when your the gayguy in the corner its just very yikes. I play a text based mmo not WOW but the forums on there after they changedthere logo to the pride logo was very yikes, rainbows be hella offensive apparently. Glzd to say though the only direct harrasment i facedfor being gay that person was fedded (plzced in the in game prisonwhere the only thing you can do is talk about your fed case) and given a chat ban. Some people get all up in there titsabout any kinda moderation in games but i think its time weaccepted somepeople are infact shitty people and need to bemoderated because they dont have basic human decency.
Which LFG chat are you trying to join in WoW, where the first thing you have to announce is that you're gay. Getting into any LFG that needs discord just want to run that instance as quickly as possible not abuse people for anything other than shit game play
@@zoons6323 its not about announcing im gay its about joining lfg and being inundated with homophobic slurs and all types of discriminatory language, so i leave the lfg cause i dont wanna be exposed to that shit constantly
@@hyperactive10101 So what you're saying is 'the slur and worse discourse that exits' you heard in a LFG that was not aimed at you. Must be playing a different game that I have been for the last 12 years
@@zoons6323 I'm glad that you haven't been exposed to that as I have.