The BEST Leader In Civ In 2022? UPDATED Civilization 6 FINAL Leader Tier List by boesthius
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- Опубліковано 7 лип 2024
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HOLY HELL IT'S ABOUT TIME. It's tier list month in January, and I'm starting off strong with my most controversial video of last year AGAIN in 2022 - The Civ Leader Tier List. This is another long one, just like last time so strap on in and get ready to disagree with me~
My spreadsheet: docs.google.com/spreadsheets/...
Peppermint_butler's Spreadsheet: docs.google.com/spreadsheets/...
pb's stream: / peppermint_butler
As always, you can find me at the above links and livestreaming on / boesthius Mon-Thurs 12pm, and Fridays at 2pm PST!
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The music at the end was made by hawk - the song is called ultd. and can be found here!
►Soundcloud: / hawkmakesmusic
►Spotify: open.spotify.com/artist/6FL36...
►UA-cam: / @hawkmakesmusic2009
00:00:00 - Start
00:00:43 - Spreadsheet Backend Breakdown
00:02:04 - Twitch Stream Schedule
00:02:37 - Deity Disclaimer
00:03:26 - Explaining Ranking from F tier to S Tier
00:04:34 - Sumeria
00:08:14 - Kongo
00:11:19 - Nubia
00:13:26 - Poland
00:16:09 - English Eleanor
00:18:45 - India (Chandragupta)
00:21:56 - France (Magnificence Catherine)
00:23:34 - Mali
00:26:21 - Georgia
00:29:56 - Sweden
00:32:43 - India (Gandhi)
00:35:54 - America (Rough Rider)
00:37:48 - Kublai Khan (Mongolia)
00:40:23 - Norway
00:42:17 - Maya
00:45:23 - France (Black Queen Catherine)
00:47:27 - Mongolia
00:48:46 - Mapuche
00:52:07 - Scythia
00:53:56 - Egypt
00:56:15 - Kublai Khan (China)
00:57:46 - England (Victoria)
00:59:26 - China
01:01:17 - Persia
01:03:12 - Brazil
01:05:41 - Canada
01:08:13 - Ottomans
01:09:46 - Indonesia
01:11:51 - Scotland
01:13:33 - Maori
01:15:25 - Arabia
01:17:02 - Aztecs
01:18:55 - Macedon
01:20:57 - Netherlands
01:22:47 - France (Eleanor)
01:24:15 - Portugal
01:27:32 - Byzantium
01:29:36 - Spain
01:31:02 - Hungary
01:33:04 - Cree
01:35:23 - Germany
01:36:54 - Zulu
01:38:34 - Babylon
01:41:17 - America (Bull Moose)
01:43:11 - Greece (Gorgo)
01:44:37 - Inca
01:46:09 - Ethiopia
01:47:45 - Phoenicia
01:49:33 - Rome
01:50:56 - Australia
01:52:51 - Vietnam
01:54:37 - Korea
01:56:29 - Japan
01:57:38 - Gran Colombia
01:59:42 - Gaul
02:01:13 - Greece (Pericles)
02:02:39 - Russia
02:05:53 - Khmer
02:09:27 - FINAL RANKINGS
02:11:43 - End
23.1k subs
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#CivilizationVI #boesthius #onemoreturn #deity - Ігри
I'M SORRY ABOUT 51:25 OK I DON'T KNOW WHY IT'S SO LOUD JUST LETTING YOU ALL KNOW
once again if you're going to leave a comment please don't be a dick about it i don't like having to say it but STILL
I laughed my butt off when the music hit , even though I KNEW it was coming. Good video btw, nice explanation and constructive thought process.
Glad I checked ;)
Great flute solo though, deserves to be highlighted 😂
Gorgo is way better than Pericles imho couse you can get a lota early culture with barbarian kills.If Pericles dont get good city states around then he is very vanilla.Gorgo Snipping barb camps with scouts its insain fun for me ;) and jugglin culture burst.Pericles is imba when spawn in between states though but he is a bit of a dick anyway
Yeah it was kinda shocking…
I feel like Gilgamesh is pretty much designed to be an AI leader more than anything
he is best friend
Potatomcwhiskey's germany run:
He's great for unleashing a horde of donkey karts in the first 40 turns of the game and bamboozling his neighbours. Which is weird since he's supposed to be a friend to his neighbours but doesn't really have an incentive to do that since Sumeria's best trait hands down is the war cart and how powerful it is in the ancient era.
I always feel guilty when gilgamesh gets angry at me
@@Tyiriel H-How do you ever get Gilgamesh to be angry at youi? As long as you treat him only somewhat nicely he will love you forever, he is dog-like in how loyal he is.
“I only play on deity, if you play on immortal or lower”
Me who plays on chieftain and gets behind on science somehow
Hahah that's completely OK! I just wanted to give a basis of where this list was coming from. As long as you're playing and having fun that's the most important aspect
@@boesthius haha, thanks! Will definitely try to catch your streams to see how I can improve and finally get the courage to play on Prince
@@DarkEye1564 It took me a lot of games at lower difficulties to build up a game sense to win on Prince reliably; you'll definitely get there!
@@DarkEye1564 I played on king and thought I was the only one playing on lower difficulty's lol I started in prince and now have four wins on king one more and I feel I can move up to immortal lol
Me played on Settler and was behind Science and Cultural ... Yea
If gilgamesh could make alliances with people super early and others could accept the alliance with him, it would be awesome!
That would actually be a great change for him
I say he should unlock military alliances at defensive tactics or whatever it was called. Could make him into an amazing early war civ where you pick a buddy and with them conquer the world.
👀
The mod Earlier Alliances allows Forming them from Political Philosophy which I think makes more sense.
double alliance point gained would be nice too. level 3 alliance in reinessance era? gg
I really like that you put each CIVs music when you were talking about them.
i thought it was a nice touch
Yes made the video so much better 👌
I didnt realize he did until Lautaro lmao
@@ryorai5804 then it was like HERE IM GOING TO FORCE YOU TO REALIZE IT lol
I've never played this game, but I watched the whole thing and I was very shocked with how the tier list was because I didn't know any of these were in this game or how this game works.
You should try it! I'm just starting to get into it, I played it a long time ago with my little brother and always loved war strategy games. Give it a shot, hard to learn but is fun still while trying to!
What a legendary comment
It's a great game, and I highly recommend giving it a try. A bit addictive though lol
I just read this comment, and I was very shocked because I can’t read!
@@Morphdog9819 I just heard a person read this reply, and I was shocked because I can’t hear!
Honestly glad to see the Cree so high up, most of the time I think people see him as a "meh" civ because he doesnt have a hard and fast win con but that makes him the most versatile for whatever map type you get generated.
I think he is even nerfed in bbc for multiplayer games.
I think he's as "versatile" as every other character. He doesn't get bonuses to anything. Ill admit the early golden age is nice but i'd take a mine over his special improvement half the time or I just don't have the ppl to work it. Personally I haven't worked a single tile that I got from the traders either. I feel like the best part of him is going for a plus 20 combat strength recon unit but idk. I personally am not convinced maybe ill watch more into it but I'd rather be gilgamesh than cree. War cart > scout, 2 sci 1 cult > 1 prod 1 gold 1 housing. both get early golden age and I'd rather pray for an ally and get combat strength than the tiles from traders. I make one trader and all my other traders follow the same damn road. If they made his traders move faster on non-road tiles and they directly go form one city to another I think that change could make him really strong (probably too strong, idk maybe through woods they get normal movement not hills).
I think he's just a solid middle of the road civ. He has a lot of the problems that Boe knocks other Civ's for, specifically, "what the fuck does he want to do". He even himself said "jack of all trades master of none" which is what he knocks a bunch of civs for. And putting him ahead Byzantime? C'mon bro.
Won sience victory yesterday using Cree!
@@stefandjurica9219 BBG does indeed nerf the Cree just a little bit - it's actually one of the least-touched civs there, but it does get nerfed. Specifically, it doesn't get the free Trader at Pottery (just the trade route capacity) because that early a trade bonus was an advantage that would go too far in setting up an early economic edge with even starts between high-level players.
Obviously the early game works differently in high-difficulty singleplayer!
One fun thing about Khmer is that if your river spawns near rainforest, tundra or desert, it's actually a good idea to get the pantheons that boost holy site adjacency for them, and then get Work Ethic with your religion. It's mad good!
Yeah there's just so many options for him that even if you don't get river goddess, everything else that boosts holy sites are going to benefit everything that he does
Don’t forget the scientist that grants science equal to faith in hs
Innit you can get like 8 faith food and production
River goddess is still preferable if you're playing tall with the Khmer, but the cool thing about the Khmer is that they can flip a switch with grandmaster's cathedral and go full domination with Domreys.
@@boesthius I've only ever played Jay once because I spawned next to Pamukkale, got a +14 Faith/Food/Science/Production Holy Site, and I thought, "There's no way I'm ever going to top this."
Peter been diabolically twirling his mustache in S-Tier since 2016. Love it
Gilgabro is still SSS+ in our heart.
always and forever
@@boesthius also blursed gilgabro
The fact that Kongo can't build Holy Sites is really dumb, even if they can't be founding their own religion. So many religious beliefs require Holy Sites for their bonuses and Kongo just gets straight up shafted by this.
Can't benefit from Work Ethic, any Religious building, etc. You typically have to wait for the AI to reform their religion and even then, you need them to convert your cities to benefit from potential beliefs, and they may pick ones that don't help your win condition.
The devs probably learned from this with the Maori and their inability to recruit Great Writers, which is why Kupe can build Theater Squares. Doesn't stop him from getting his Settler stolen by barb boats kek.
Kongo fell hard when they updated Great Works modifiers to only apply to base Tourism, Writing was reduced from 4 to 2 Tourism, Faith got a bigger role in the Cultural Victory (National Parks, Rock Bands...), and Housing is more easy to get now (almost nobody builds the Neighborhood now).
Kongo was one of the best cultural civilization in the game back then. One early strategy in R&F was to promote Reyna unlock the double Tourism (she had the Title instead of Pingala back then), rush Printing Press (×2 Tourism to Writings) and have a lot of Writings at 16 Tourism each (base of 4, two-times doubled), meaning it was possible to get 200 Tourism in the Capital really early. It is not possible now, due to Writing being at 2 Tourism, and the modifier's change: they are only worth 6 Tourism now.
When we look to Kongo's First Look, the civilization was designed as a cultural faithless populous civilization. To be fair, Kongo could have Holy Sites while keeping this initial design. Something like this:
*Religious Convert* (Mvemba a Nzinga):
_Holy Sites' adjacency bonus, Shrines and Temples gives Food and Gold instead of Faith. Gains all Beliefs of any Religion that has established itself in a majority of his cities. Can buy religious units with Gold at discounted price. Great Prophets cannot be earned._
It is still not a good ability, but he could enjoy most religious beliefs now, would not delete Holy Sites and Relics on conquest, and get more control on the Religious game. Maybe he should be the Religious Gilgabro, the civilization you want to ally with in order to win the Religious victory, and give him a bonus in spread, religious combat, passive pressure or something.
Funny.considering.Kongo.was.S.tier.for.vanilla
I think that if they allowed you to adopt another religion by choice in the game, that would make someone like Kongo viable.
@@Clemehl Even something like "can only build Holy Sites in cities with a majority religion established" (and obviously that has to be from someone else when Great Prophets cannot be earned) would fit the "reliigous convert" angle really well. And would allow them to have a faith engine for Naturalists and Rock Bands, even if it was still one they couldn't really control.
@@shinydavidhowell Yeah, it is a different take. It sounds logical and fit the "Religious Convert" very well... except it would be painful to play as. Waiting to have a majority religion, it means to rely on other people to spread a religion to half your cities before being allowed to build Holy Site. It is not reliable and depend way to much on AI / other players behavior. Even if the ability is more flexible with "religious city" instead of "majority religion", it still depend a lot on AI / players. Yeah it seemed fit. It is subjective and you can disagree, but for me it would be a too frustrating ability if it relied completely on other players.
That is why I prefer to be able to build Holy Sites from start with Food / Gold output instead of Faith: you can choose to build them early, fit the "Populous" gameplay, and also means that Kongo did have rites and tradition before conversion. Furthermore, you can still gain Faith either from the Worship building, and from religious City-States (so you do not get scammed if there are a ton of religious CS when playing as Kongo).
English Eleanor was just so obviously designed with vanilla England in mind. The 6 slot archaeological museum would be infinitely better suited to Eleanor than the Gathering Storm version.
I'd venture to guess that they changed England's ability because of Eleanor. Having 6 slots feels a lot more unbalanced than otherwise
@@pseudonymous7557 dont forget that it was also themed automatically, england was the best cultur civ in vanilla
English Eleanor used to be S tier, could win a conquer victory without ever fighting with secret societies. Did they nerf that?
I stand by that the Ottomans are the best domination civ. On deity, the enemy units aren't the main obstacle, it's the cities, and his kit is absolutely fantastic at taking and keeping cities. The siege bonus and Ibrahim governor makes taking cities so much easier, and the lack of population decline and the bonus loyalty and amenities for captured cities makes keeping hold of them a breeze. Janissaries are very spammable if you have a lot of niter, which the grand bazaar can help you with (as well as getting even more amenities) and the barbary corsair is a hilarious-to-use cherry on top.
Being an asshole with barbary raiders and using the enemy's economy to flood them with jannissaries will never not be hilarious.
Grand Bazaar is crazy for resource accumulation. The amenities would have been enough, cool civ.
About the Sweden industrial zone synergy, I’d argue that IZs do synergize with cultural victory through wonder building. I overbuild IZs in most games and so I have the most points for the wonder engineers. Being able to slap down Cristo Redentor and Eiffel Tower the turn after unlock does a lot for culture victory.
Culture victory is a legitimately solid plan B for Scotland for that reason. Load up on amenities and IZs, monopolise Great Engineers, wonder building go brrrr
not to mention those lower tier wonders like Hermitage are significantly more useful with Sweden than other civs since they are themed, so you can keep yourself busy building wonders with great engineers or just with increase production from IZ's
Late to the party, so I doubt this will be read, but:
1st - Thank you for doing a proper tier list with something close to a normal distribution. I see so many tier lists out there with like 8 S-tiers, 20 A-tiers, 9 B-tiers, 9 C-tiers, etc. and it kinda takes away from the meaning of 'S' tier.
2nd- I agree with almost all of your tier placements and their rankings (kind of refreshing that someone shares my opinion on Gilga-bro and Alexander) save one -- I do not think Russia is S-tier; or if they are, how you justify it is somewhat hypocritical. There are several civilizations on your list that you downgraded because of dependencies; however, your rationale for Russia involves:
A. Settling near tundra or having tundra on the map
B. Getting Dance of the Aurora
C. Getting a religion (though, I'll grant you this is not too difficult w/half cost holy site) with Work Ethic (though the AI almost never takes this)
D. And, getting a Golden Age for monumentality
Yeah, in a lot of games it shouldn't be to difficult; but what if you're in a game with Canada and they take your tundra spot, what if you're on a map with no tundra (I've seen it on Pangea, though rare), what about archipelago and fractal maps, what if another civ takes dance of the aurora (I did this once on Georgia, spawned near tundra, cleared a couple of barb camps for huge faith spike, got dance, one of the fastest science victories I had), the list could go on.
If your justification for Russia being amazing was solely on how important a 1/2 cost holy site was, the importance of faith generation and getting a religion was to winning games, I probably wouldn't have written this essay. But, it wasn't; it was saying one civ's dependencies weren't as great as another's.
3rd- Still, amazing video and editing, you've more than earned a like and a new subscription.
It's still read, I read the majority of my comments! Your rationale definitely makes sense and it's absolutely something else to think about as well.
And yeah normal distribution was definitely taken into account and I redid my tier list like 5-6 times to make sure I had everything where I wanted and it still ended up on a nice curve.
Virgin Russia: *needs +20 prod from holy site to get anything done in his cities*
Chad Khmer: *has enough food, housing, and amenities to work 8 more tiles than anyone else in the game*
Watched the whole thing, real solid work and appreciate the time and effort you put into making actual calculations rather than just ranking on feel.
One thing I'll say is that I did a Kongo game last night while I was achievement hunting and surprisingly had an awesome game with help of the void singers. Was something like a turn 235 culture victory. I was terrified and helpless of the AI religious victory though so I can't argue with your ranking.
Boes really stretching the content to that 10 minutes huh
I recently played a game with the khmer with a legendary start. But the game went so incredibly well that i ended up quitting because the succes felt somewhat undeserved. But looking back, the start wasn't actually that crazy and the other cities were just normal. So it was mostly just the khmer being insane.
I always enjoy tier lists. Thanks for putting this together!
No problem!
Love the channel and love the tier lists. These tier lists are very informative; Even without the rankings, it’s nice to have one video where you get a summary of every civ and leader
I will say though, on my personal tier list I would rank English Eleanor much higher. Her kit actually does mesh pretty well in my games. Being able to build really fast harbors is very nice on almost any non Pangea map. You can get a lot of trade routes going for the 25% culture boast. They also help a lot once you hit democracy because you can get your cities that are near other civs’ cities a lot of food and production, build theater squares in them, put a lot of loyalty pressure on those cities with your population and great works and flip them. The harbors and bonuses to strategic resource accumulation help a lot with money making; you don’t need to rely on WAM points; you can just buy great works from other civs because you’ll have plenty of gold. You will also have tons of production to be able to build theater squares. I find industrial zones work surprisingly well with English Eleanor, even in culture games. Because she has a river bias, you can put an aqueduct, industrial zone and oftentimes a dam in many of your cities. She’s also very strong at exploration and settling new continents. The lower appeal isn’t really a problem: you just have to make zones for production and separate zones for appeal. The production helps a ton with building wonders too
For coastal games I actually prefer the English version. I’ll gladly trade in the château, bonuses to wonders and France’s unique unit for bonuses to general production, resources and exploration. And if you want to go Dom you can do that too because the combination of her flipping cities and having a powerful navy works well for naval Dom games. I think English Eleanor is an above average leader on deity
Edit - 25% tourism boost, not culture
Jadwiga can be really good if you snag the Crusade belief and go Domination. The fact that Winged Hussars are unlocked via the Culture tree also really helps, since you can tech focus in a different direction.
If you're running Secret Societies and pick up Voidsingers, Poland becomes cracked with Culture, since her ability also works with Cultist Relics, which are much easier to get than religious Relics.
Poland gets more out of the popular game modes than most other civs in my opinion. Heroes are nuts with Jadwiga, and forts and encampments can let you snag luxuries without warring with your neighbors for monopoly bonuses, on top of the sukiennices you want to build anyway helping you push for Great Merchants to build the corporations.
Also the great prophet card and some luck can let you get a great prophet before anyone else and easily convert your neighbors before they can found their religions.
Lautaro/Mapuche is seemingly created for one game mode, and that is Dramatic Ages.
You get the Ancient era to build up, and after that you are guaranteed to have war targets (by either effortlessly snagging cities that other civs lost, or by triggering the Golden Age bonus).
If the Culture Industry bug was fixed, I would actually play it a bit more
Yeah exactly, i get the incentive to want to make a civ good for one of the game modes they created (looking at you Tamar) but it just makes it even worse honestly
Great list! I couldn't agree more about the Cree. Too many lists put poundmaker down near the bottom, and his early bonuses are SO good if used well, on top of being a really fun civ to play. You can make a ton of gold while keeping tabs on the whole map. I love going for God of the open sky to get even more out of those pastures for an early culture win! Pastures already help your trade routes, so I find the synergy so good. Great tier list!
I love that tierlist. Could you please create a multiplayer one?
Something else to note about Gilgamesh is that your main reason to play him is to rush War-Carts, and his abilities almost have anti-synergy with that strategy. Not only are you incentivized by the War-Cart to declare early wars before you can ally anyone, but you can’t make use of the Ziggurat because you would rather use your population to work tiles that have the most production in order to pump them out, rather than going science and culture early game as the Ziggurat suggests. Gilgamesh’s abilities have the least synergy between them out of all the leader in the game, enough that the individually strong or decent traits are overlapping with each other to the point that you have to choose which strong point to go for, and imo this makes him the only leader I think is terribly designed
After seeing Georgia in this video I felt like playing as them. I also play deity and pretty much have the same setup as you do considering map settings. There used to be a lot of memes about this civ but honestly they feel pretty strong in their own regard. Their special abilities synergised pretty well in my culture game. The strenght in their defensive ability, faith generation and ease of acquiring Golden ages in every era leaves a lot of free space to focus on other things that you might need in the moment wheter its culture, science or economy.
Georgia have definitely been buffed nicely over time, including indirectly with Monarchy now being an all-purpose usable government. And honestly just their synergy with Kilwa would be enough to take them off the lol-tier ranks for singleplayer against an AI that somehow doesn't rush the best wonder in the game but goes HAM for the far worse Machu Picchu one tech back 😂
I totally agree with Korea. I had such high expectations going in because everyone hyped them up so much, but man I felt so constricted and had a really hard time with the negative adjacency! It made planning my cities awkward. So while they’re definitely solid, I agree that they’re not S-Tier.
Boesthius: 1:01:17
My brain:
There once was a hero named Ragnar the Red...
Won my first culture game as Pericles. Won it super early and didn't even realize it was happening. I was planning out my next few moves, clicked end turn, and then was surprised by the victory screen.
I love playing the Cree, he is versatile that he can go for just about any victory condition. I find when you play them, you need to know what you are doing on the map. The Makewap is a good Tile improvement as production is a catch all for any victory condition. B is where I would of stuck them as well.
Hey boes, I think your Suleiman rating is off by quite a bit. I just played a deity domination game where I snowballed harder than I ever have before, thanks to janissaries being incredibly cheap and good and the unique governor. I also think that you underestimate the power of captured cities not losing population. This allows captured cities to be extremely useful very quickly, and honestly after this game I think he might be the strongest domination leader in singleplayer.
is that an Allende pfp
And who is the strongest in multiplayer?
with phoenicia, not only do you get to spam settlers by combining the cothon and the ancestral hall, but you can also forward settle the ai, with the faster settlers and the fact that you will not lose loyalty if it's coastal on the same continent. I also love phoenicia, cause it basically counters Eleonor, by having fully loyal cities. Honestly it's my favourite civ, cause you get such a good synergy of bonuses, plus it's a really fun gameplay.
I'm so proud of Australia that they are so high.
i remember like 5 years ago when i started playing Civ VI, before i tried other civs i played like 10 games with Curtin
i was so mad that other civs can't improve desert like Australia can, and oh boy, every game i rushed Petra for these sweet sweet tiles on a desert with Outback stations
delicious
Can't Gilgamesh place Ziccurats on desert tiles though?
@@kevintrang3007 he can but i value shittons of production and food more
cracked video my guy. I just bought CIV with all the new DLCs and was in the process of watching your older tierlist. This one popped up right as I finished and I'm excited to see if anything has changed!
there's quite a few changes as i value some things a bit more this list than last haha
but enjoy~
Your tierlist reminds me famous Filthy Robot's civ5 video. Good job as always. And another 1 thing i like in your lists - there is only few civs in S tier (for example in TheCivLifer videos, which are also actually good, almost 10+ civs are ranked as "S" tier).
Man I miss filthy robot civ videos :(
Filthy taught me civ 5, now you are teaching me 6 Boes!
I don't understand Mansa Musa in C but Aminatore in D. When I play Diety, I definitely have an easier and consistent time winning the game when I play as Nubia. With Mali, there's a lot of restarts before I get the ball rolling. Whereas with Nubia, it's easier to get a headstart and snowball. The rest of the tierlist, I agree though.
Great job and great content!
I play on Deity with Mansa Musa, once you get the gold coming in, everything comes in super easy. Just be prepared to levy units from nearby CS if you get declared war on. I'd argue Mansa Musa is one of the fun civs to play with as it forces you to play differently, I'll put him at B.
came back to playing civ 6 after a year, looked up for a tier list and you just posted this in time lol
So funny I was looking for your old video on it, but you made one today.
it's been a long time coming LOL
I was doing the same lol
Menelik is b tier? Why?
His spawn bias towards hills is crazy, amount of fate that he generates is absurd too. He can outfaith civs with holy site in desert or tundra.
I think he is A tier at least.
This is an excellent and impressive video! Thanks for all your efforts in putting this together.
Since you mentioned you wanted tips on how to pronounce words correctly (e.g. ‘Joao’), the ‘a’ in ‘kampung’ is sort of like the ‘a’ in ‘father’ and the ‘pung’ is sort of like ‘poong’.
oh thank you! i'll try and incorporate that as well
Still feel like Germany is at least A, one more district in a game that’s based off districts is just too good. Simon was S, final patch I agree he’s probably A but really close to S.
I honestly think you just put too many people in B tier and didn’t give enough of them the A pass but other than that it’s a good list, nice work 👍
By the way I know it’s a lot of work, but I feel like you should do this list again with monopolies, secret societies and heroes and legends active since I really love those 3 and don’t think they do anything “detrimental” and only add complexity and fun to the game.
Honestly, the germany rating is a little off in my opinion. High A for sure. Boe talks about how important early game is and I agree. No other civ is able to smash city states like germany and even in deity, maybe even especially in deity with the walls spawned, that +7 is nothing to sneeze at. Taking out a useless city state early is extremely strong and this may be bias, but I feel city states are given really good spawn locations a lot of times. Next, the extra district means really strong cities early; Cost of district can be locked in earlier, having 3 districts at 4 allows for stronger adjacency early, and more great person points per city. Hanza can be pretty early and is very easy to get massive adjacency for. Production is king and this early lead on districts and production allows germany the versatility to pursue any victory type, well.
edit: I didnt even mention the extra military slot! its not as good as an extra economic but being able to run agoge and +5 towards barbarians has serious merit for early game protection/swinging into city state conquest. With industrial zone adjaceny card moving to a military spot, it also means you can grab merchant republic with out having to use a wildcard for double industrial adjacency
@@PokeMultiverse I absolutely agree. Germany has so much tricks up his sleeve that I can't fathom anything other than upper A tier. Perhaps he is not S tier because of early game but B tier is a bit too much.
You’re one of the few that actually makes an effort to pronounce names and people correctly and has a grasp on history.
I try pretty hard, I recognize that my pronunciations are awful most of the time but I've thought if I can learn to pronounce Tchaikovsky I can pronounce đàn tranh
@@boesthius Yeah that’s my thing. The game is remarkably educational if you make an effort to pay attention.
Better get a drink and a snack, time to binge this
Thanks Boes ❤️, hope you had an amazing new years
thank you, and you as well!!
I know it's kinda outside what you usually do, but a balance fix mod designed by you would be fascinating and I would download it in a heartbeat.
if only i knew how to lol
Portugal is a civ that's either S tier or D tier depending on map, so you're forced to throw him in B to meet in the middle.
I will say though he performs wonderfully on Continents and Islands too, as long as you're not playing a full PvP multiplayer session where people actively avoid coastal cities to counter him.
Portugal is very dependent on map and gameplay settings, which makes them situationally powerful but not elite.
Don't get me wrong, I love Portugal and they are damn near broken when played correctly. But they are garbage on any land based map because it kills their trade ability.
It would be great to see you discussing all the tier lists with another professional CIV player who has a different play style than you. Maybe you cannot cover all the civs (or at least not in one video) but it bears the chance to unveil alternative strategic approaches for the respective civs.
yeah that would be actually a super good idea! i have an idea of doing it with Chat at some point live and doing a like live chat ranking, but that's a good one too
The best leader is ... hours and hours of study and practice. That makes any civ be a great one.
Thanks a lot for the efforts for putting the video. This is definitely one of the best tier lists that I have ever seen!
Just tried out Dido after watching the video and she is indeed an A-tier! Going to try Cree and others
I would actually make an argument that Columbia should be in S Tier due to how the bonus movement not only helps with your military but gives you a passive cascading infrastructure bonus since all of your workers, settlers, ect can all do what they need to do faster and those little bonuses stack.
Gilgamesh early wars are near impossible to execute (on deity). You need too many things in your favor for it to be worth it otherwise your carts fall behing quite quickly
I found what was best about the carts is that you can spam them and have a use from them, then convert them into knights and really have a strong power spike.
I like the really long videos like this. I listen to them while driving for work.
Great video boes, happy new year
I'm actually surprised about magnificence Catherine, the project usually develops Incredible amounts of tourism, she's been my easiest culture victories I've ever tried. I get its different playstyles but I'm kinda surprised
what kind of numbers does it output for you?
@@madmangogaming I honestly don't remember because it's been months since I've actually sat down and played civ but I've had diety sub 150s with some pretty decent starts. No notable natural wonders but some pretty lucky luxury spawns. If I want an easy culture game she's usually my goto, although all games usually go the same way
@@consolas2514 I like her a lot, dont get me wrong, but couple of stuff ruined her for me, first of all AI is now busted and they dont improve luxury tiles anymore, so you can hardly trade luxuries for project to pay off, meaning you are spawn dependant, i hate those civs, also project itself is too expensive... 7-12 turns on standard speed. I mean you might aswell build a wonder?
@@Dotalol123 I play on online speed and I've never had a massive issue with the project personally, if you focus entirely on the project by getting like maoi hero and spamming that, setting up as many cities as possible and going production focus (like a work ethic religion to help faith spam for maoi and speed up the project) then it's usually quite a quick game. She is my preferred culture civ nowadays but I get what you mean by start dependence, I'm someone who plays Mansa Musa, Mag Catherine and Portugal, all very spawn dependant lol. (Tbf I also just like her because my gf is called Catherine so it makes me smile)
@@consolas2514 I get you, i love Mansa Musa but his start positions i get are really awful... I really want to play him like i play Russia with work ethics to compensate his lack of production, but i have to restart 4-5 times to get desert tiles its so annoying... I dont understand why you rarely get desert with Mali and Nubia, i pretty much given up on them when i play online with friends, after i wanted quick Pitati rush and i got spawned in Tundra!?
TL;DW: skipped to the end and didn't saw anything that enraged me. Good tier list, 8/10 would like again.
(Seriously though, gotta love a 2 hour in-depth tier list. A couple of surprising choices at first glance (Germany, Phoenicia) but looking forward to hearing your reasoning!)
thank you! yeah honestly after going through the rankings some of them surprised me as well lol
You mentioned that you want some guidance for pronunciation. For the Maori; the r is slightly rolled, similar to the spanish R. the Marae, is pronounced Ma - R[r] eye. Anytime you see a Maori city with WH in the name (Whanganui, Kawhia), it's actually an F sound. Whanganui = Fong a nu-ee. Kawhia = Ka Fee ah.
The only real disagreement I have is with Lautaro in C. The higher difficulties the AI gets more golden ages and he is just a monster fighting against golden age AIs. You can set your watch to an AI getting a classical era Golden Age. You can prep for a war with a neighbor and beat crossbows with archers and warriors. Regardless, love your videos. Love seeing you put your thoughts to paper as it were on this and city state tier lists. Keep up the great work and thanks for the hours and hours of content!
Thank God that you like Poundmaker, he's my fav
Jay with river goddess means that his holy sites on rivers are basically Temple of Artemis (with only 2 camps)
In my last casual multiplayer game, I ended up playing as the Khmer.
Once I lucked into an actual good river with a settler steal, I snowballed to such an extent that the game was over by mutual concession in the medieval era. The other three players in the game were Inca (who got absolutely shafted by an egregiously bad spawn), Brazil (who never recovered from my settler steal), and Norway (who went all-in on a religious rush and ran into a wall of Khmer religious units). Meanwhile, my large thriving cities were giving me so many more yields than anyone else that I think at one point I may have gained almost as much culture per turn *just from suzerainty of Antananarivo* as other players were getting at all. When Norway declared war on me and saw what units I had, he knew he was done.
I didn't realise just how good the Khmer were until that. Heck, until well after that, because I attributed the severity of that snowball to luck.
But let's just say I'm pretty sure everyone else in the group is going to be taking the Khmer in the ban phase of our drafts, and that they're going to be right.
Nothing hurts another player more than stealing their hard built settler in the ancient or classical era. Major blow might even take that particular player out of the game right there.
@@ethanwmonster9075 It was the biggest of my multiple big breaks in that game, especially as I spawned next to a tiny river and Brazil were ready to settle near a rather bigger one. Once I got that spot, my snowball began hard and fast.
Hello mr. Boesthius. I had an interesting idea that could be added in addition to his ally bonus. What if you could declare Formal Wars in the Ancient Era for 75% less of the normal grievances, so 25. This would mean you could still do early dom and still get allies in the mid game. Or something in addition could be after the ancient era, all Casus Beli declarations of war could be -25% grievances for capturing cities. Any boost that reduces grievances would help Gilgabro because he wants to be making allies while doing war
Thanks a lot for the time and effort you put into this (and your channel as a whole); hope the comments are more positive this time round :D
18:00 i think the leader designers' operating principle was historic realism and capturing the essence of the leader/time period's characteristics, rather than actually balancing things for gameplay.
So Blizzard actually does this really well, where they get inspired from the lore and art and realism, but are completely willing to sacrifice it for balanced gameplay in cases where it's important to do so.
Norway is always my go to civ. Whenever I start to get to far behind in science, culture etc. A couple of raids and pillages even against city states are super useful. Then just wait for the grievances to bleed off and be friendly again.
Built Wonders tier list when? Caught a stream last week, I'll definitely will be back soon 👍 Got my first Science victory yesterday thanks to the tips y'all gave me.
it's on the way!
I think a map tier list would be a good idea especially if you can show each map type revealed as you do it. There's not much map content
Nice video. I have like 160hrs in this game and just now Im starting to learn the gameplay systems in more details. This is a good way of finding what the civ leaders actually are good for. 👍
A lot of this can change with game setup and learning new uses. Eleanor of England can be S tier if used properly with secret societies. Domination win without fighting.
I do like the idea of having all leaders have a special ability for a specific game mode
I do too, maybe someone will create a mod pepehands
genuinely a bit surprised that Ethiopia is B-tier instead of A-tier. I don't even think you need a particularly amazing spawn to do well with him, even a mediocre one can let him just absolutely run away with the amount of free science and culture you can get from his faith output. You can relatively easily keep up with deity AI with science/culture with just one or two of the respective districts and just straight up buy whatever GP you want once your faith gets going a bit. Add in the industries that increase faith output (though tbf you need to be lucky for that) and he just becomes an absolute monster. Getting free faith from trade routes and improved resources is also a bit underrated
pretty much just hardcore focus faith, drop down grandmasters chapel, get voidsingers to cram as many of their relics into your capital as possible and enjoy your free resources while buying whatever you need with faith
I think i can see him being B-tier without voidsingers, but with them I'd believe he's pretty easily high A-tier at least
love the video though. I pretty much agree with everything else :))
that's very fair! yeah i think menelik is one of the most obvious designs for secret societies as you were saying - it's almost like they made Voidsingers specifically for him. i had him up in A tier at first but I think I dropped him down a little after redoing my tier lists a few times. there is definitely an argument for him being in A tier because he can be very strong!!
Watched this when I got the game months ago & I still keep coming back to it before most games lol
1:20:00 Very interested to see the video on Alexander trial runs. (And kudos for actually running trials on stuff like this!) He definitely _needs_ horses and iron, but are you saying you got to 4 cities before revealing the resources? I thought the typical gameplan was to make your first 3 techs Animal Husbandry > Mining > Bronze Working _specifically_ so that you base your city placement on where the strategics are.
Admittedly I am a little babby who's only a few Deity runs in, but that was one of my most recent games so it's super fresh. My second city was like 15 tiles away from my capital and had some barb troubles as a result, but by god it kept its horse pasture repaired because that was literally its entire purpose for existence.
Protip: is you settle directly on top of a strategic resource, you can get it without improving it. Very solid if you just want to settle "meme cities" who's entire purpose is to acquire a key resource.
It is also much easier to defend a city than a pasture.
Heli spam is actually my favorite strat with scythia it is so useful especially since it works with army versions cause you can get an unstoppable army in a very fast time
Does Gilgamesh's Legacy of Enkidu ability (the heroes one) knock him any higher for you? It seems to be a lot more sensible than Adventures of Enkidu.
holy shit what a great start to the new year! i already know boes is going to rank korea too low, always hatin on my fave civ smh my head
I wish that, in domination games, you inherited the abilities (or some of them) of the civ you killed. Basically, you learn what they knew when you take their capital.
I just picked the game up again after it came out (played it for a week and somehow completely lost my memory of it). Now I got the DLCs and was completely lost for quite a while.
Super interesting to see your thought process. Currently winning on immortal and having a good time. Still won't finish a single game. But just one more turn, eh?
Edit: Germany in B-tier is highly sus. But I think your problem is that you actually know what you are doing. Germany is very beginner-friendly and forgiving. Even if you mess up your city layout the bonus district somehow still manages to rule.
There's a lot of arguments against me with Germany in being B tier and I think with other playstyles for other players it makes more sense, however for me I've always struggled with Germany even to this day. They probably could realistically be A tier (I had them in S before) but that's how I rated em~
@@boesthius that's a fair point. After all, it's always based on personal experience.
Thinking about it, Germany is also a bit weird since its potential for snowballing despite having one of the most boring early games. Probably really not your style.
now i use this video to decide what to play next. already play all S and A tier.
last game was australia terra map with consistent coastal rebel cities. good times
australia is so fun to play
I heard a pretty take on Eleanor, that her French kit doesn't actually let you get more great works more quickly, while her English kit helps you with lots of quick production turnaround. I don't know if I remember that correctly, but it was something like that. Wonders only ever help on your border cities, but your high production cities, with French Eleanor, are going to be your central cities.
English Eleanor used to be S tier, could win a conquer victory without ever fighting with secret societies. Did they nerf that?
I was interested in what you said about Canada so I gave it a go. Just playing on King, I chose an inland sea map so that it would have more tundra, but the game spawned me so far from tundra that even when I won the game I had only two tundra tiles. The only ability that mattered was the mountie's national park ability, and that was only three parks that I could easily have afforded in naturalists. Won a Diplomatic Victory but was on course for Culture and Scientific Victories as well. It was a strange game, but the moral was that the leader kit really doesn't have to matter.
Real moral, Canada is awesome 🇨🇦
I will try a Dido build once I get home, getting so many settlers sounds amazing.
Do it!!! Magnus chops + the extra production is stupid, like settlers in a few turns each
I still firmly believe Inca should be higher up, Terrace farms effectively become mines with no appeal loss and extra food; the Qhapaq Ñan lets you basically teleport behind early game warmongers like Zulu and Macedon; and while the Warak'aq isn't game changing, its extra attack still makes it powerful in large numbers. That's not even mentioning the fact that they can work mountains, I had a 5 pop city by turn 10 with inca, and was still able to pop out early wonders like Oracle, they're so good
Edit: I completely forgot to mention how good any bonuses to appeal are for the Inca. Every mountain is guaranteed breathtaking, so Earth Goddess, preserves etc. are comically powerful.
I had a look at tier lists over xmas and noticed almost all of them were listing Khmer toward the bottom, which is insane to me as I find Khmer to be incredibly strong. Especially when combined with work ethic. My capital is pumping out 3 turn settlers at turn 50ish. These lists were found on sites like PC Gamer though, so probably not experienced players.
Those ratings are most certainly before the April patch buff. They used to be very lowly ranked.
Regardless of the shit you got for your first list, a year later this vid is being appreciated. Thanks for the help.
Very good list. I agree on almost everyone. A few tweeks here and there, but mostly I agree with most and I like your focus on the early game importance.
one thing you didnt mention about the Cyrus Nerfs is when they made the changes to the Classical Era Unique Swordsman replacements all costing Iron I feel like that also knocked Dom Cyrus down a bit as well because all of a Sudden you needed Iron for Immortals so if you get a bad spawn for strategics you simply lose the option of the Immortal Timing Attack.
yeah i often forget about that, tbh
@@boesthius The change wasnt too awful long after I picked the game up and Cyrus was one of the First Civs I played so Its kind of dug in on my brain. The Immortals and Legions both got nerfed by it and Im still so sadge.
I play Rough Rider Teddy a lot, his play style is to conquer your home continent early, then go for diplomacy late game
Surprised you said that Scotland's Bannockburn ability was "pretty cool". Liberation wars are another rare circumstance that almost never come up. And "worst" music in the game? I will fight you.
Hahaha the caveat with worst music is that I love the civ 6 soundtrack so much that even worst place is still amazing
That Bannockburn ability is actually incredible when you can use it and it does come up more than you may think (at least on deity). I mean it’s not every game but it’s not really rare either (maybe 1 out of 3 or 4 games or something). I won a science victory in my last play through with Scotland by continuously using this ability against russia, who had captured a city from the Inca. I never tried to actually liberate the city; instead i just kept declaring war against Russia over and over getting the 100% boosts to my cites repeatedly. It also gives your builders and every other unit extra movement which helps a lot to build up infrastructure quickly
It worked so well to build space ports and run space programs. In fact it works well for everything. I think my capital had 350+ production while it was active. It is a very powerful ability when you can use it and if you could get it every game it would be way too OP. But when you can get it it is simply amazing; it’s one of the most powerful abilities in the game imo
Just try hard to be friends with 2 or 3 of the weakest civs and they have a good chance to lose a city to a stronger one. That’s what I did at least
Thanks for posting. This is a helpful resource.
I've had some great games with Alex in the past, but the last few attempts I didn't get iron or horses anywhere close and it made me just quit
maybe the next tier list could be made during a live stream where twitch chat gets to tell you what they think and that way you 100% get the perfect tier list
Just for fun I'll try to buff some of the weaker civs
Gilgamesh: Ziggurat gives half housing and protects adjacent tiles from flooding.
Mvemba: M'banza has a slot for great art, music, and relic.
Kandake: Nubian Pyramid +1 housing.
Jadwiga: Gain faith when completing an encampment.
Chandragupta and Ghandi : Stepwell +1 food per adjacent farm.
Mansa Musa: +1Trade Route and a free Trader once you've researched currency.
Tamar: Your capital gets walls for free
Harald Hardråde: Ships and settlers can enter ocean tiles after researching Shipbuilding
I think a lot of it depends on the game settings which you don't really address. So for example I play only deity marathon games and civs that focus on giving you one time yields, such as from pillaging or killing enemy units are much more powerful at slower speeds. So for example killing a warrior as Gorgo gives you 30 culture, thats 10-25 turns worth of culture very early and is massive. Slower speed also makes food worth more since you have more time to improve tiles and keep up with the growth.
Map settings also matter a lot, Norway is just plain bad for pangea maps.
How Babylon is spawn depended?
3 mines - you have apprenticeship
2 workshops - you have industrialization
rush Ruhr valley - you have flight
You have planes and production to build them in medieval era.
How it's not S tier?
For those who don't know, Ruhr valley unlocks at industrialization
Not having aluminum or oil in your empire within the time you get flight by the time those biplanes become useful is a big issue that has happened to myself as well as fellow streamers, for example
@@boesthius you are right, but still, I remember the game when I built industrial zone in my capital, got free workshop and started spamming man at arms, I conquered my neighbors easily.
Then start getting eurekas in your large empire and there is no way you're gonna lose.
@@boesthius If you don't have iron for man at arms, then it's restart for all of domination civs, not only Babylon.
@@mrap4249 but then, you can restart with every civ to make it S tier
I’d like to think that 51:25 was Lautaro’s response to your critique of him 😂
Lady Six Sky synergises really well with Maui if you properly understand how his charges work.
right?? like Jayavarman is now disgustingly overpowered with his buffs. you can win culture victory in under 150 or even 100 turns just by feeding the hell out of your entire population. It's insane and so fun to play Khmer because I like playing tall and I think he is the civ that rewards you for playing tall.
Mongolia Kublai is quite underrated for religious victory since the extra combat strength from diplomatic visibility also applies to theological combat. Genghis can pull that off too but Kublai's leader ability are better for this strategy. The +1 movement from Ordu helps you to hunt down enemy Apostles and Missionaries you are at war against or even better pillage tiles to faith buy more Apostles.
I wanna put in a good word for Eleanor of England. If you can get her capital on a different continent than where most of the game is being played, the Royal Navy Dockyard can help her keep and press loyalty while she is rapidly expanding and close settling enemy cities to get the most loyalty damage. If you can faith or money buy districts with a governor, Dockyard can help her make really aggressive flanking settlements that can fairly quickly start chipping away at enemy loyalty without losing the city. Not saying she's A tier, but I've found her to be pretty effective.
Doing a A-Z challange, and the feeling of getting done with Gilgamesh was amazing.
I didn't think much of Khmer, definitely need to re-evaluate that one.
You know, I was slightly against the Gilgabro placement until last night, when he declared a surprise war on me while I was playing Pink France. He took Paris, and when it quickly flipped back to me from my great works pressure, he razed my second city, taking away about half of my culture in the process, and then immediately declared peace afterwards. The reason I couldn't fight back was because i was playing a peaceful domination game.
Even if you're playing peacefully, do not neglect your defenses. There is no shame in deterrence. Having a weapon is very different from actually using it.
@@webbowser8834 Thank you Ghandi