[TF2] 2fort: "How Bad Could It Be?" A TF2 Map Analysis
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- Опубліковано 5 вер 2024
- It's Christmas Time.
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widescreen always makes me feel like im missing half the video
You are.
Thanks for making this comment and putting my feelings in a sentence... I hate widescreen
@@TheDream64 I hope your fear of the unknown has been cured in the last 8 hours
Same
@@poptop89 I now know literally everything
2fort is most ancient map in TF2, because it was originally made and added in QTF as a recreation and reimagination of custom deathmatch map "fortress" in doom, which was created even before quake released, in 1995 or something around that.
Which explains why it does not fit well in tf2.
@@davitdavid7165 it fits well as long as people balancing game by themselves, if your team have 5 snipers you will feel like any map is not fit in game. 2Fort is just a little too supporting to defending playstyle, and this is probably a hello from TFC or QTF. In live tf2 2Fort also fits because of it simplicity and ideological canonicity. There are literally 2 teams and 2 fortress, wtf we want over it?
To be fair, i've seen a good engineer wranglejump on top of the bridge, and dominate the entire enemy team before going in with a frontier justice. That was terrifying.
lol, it probably was me. the rescue ranger + wrangler + jag is perfect for doing that
I really hope someone ported that Duke Nukem map into TF2. Having a warped version of a map already in the game would be really interesting as a joke map but not as much as a joke as ctf_2fooooooooooooooooort.
Honestly I consider 2Fort the “hub” level of team fortress 2, the map where you can basically do whatever you want in a chill manner.
Nah, 2fort is the unofficial TDM map, Hightower is the unofficial “screwing around” map.
@@Slender_Man_186 I see what you mean, I see both having funny stuff tho
@@bosskinbasher9161 True, but the 3 engies that are always set up in the intel rooms make 2fort somewhat competitive, where as simply asking to cap the cart on Hightower will usually be met with an “ok.”
@@Slender_Man_186 Ok
@@Slender_Man_186 They may seem dumb, but those engies perpetuate the e t e r n a l c t f
That title reminded me of a song that also reminded me of a character that had the weirdest fandoms that made about as much sense as a paper mache shotgun.
are you talking about the one who should have sung the biggering instead
@@wereowl9369 Yeah definitely the biggering in my opinion would be better than the crappy pop song that we got.
@@here1359 Cool just making sure that I'm on the same page on who that character is.
Spy can have fun backstabbing the three oblivious snipers
Or they can try to take on the hellish triple level 3 sentry nest in the intel room.
8:02 “The bridge has a roof, *we’ve covered that* “
Punintended?
Yes.
2fort is like Hightower: horrible objective map, amazing DM map.
Plus, I love the idea of 2fort just being rundown water mills turned into bases
Honestly, using 2fort as a deathmatch map is probably an american thing. I am from europe and play on european servers and people there are trying more to capture the briefcase than to kill as much people.
You're lucky, then. You're experiencing 2fort as it was meant to be.
I play on European servers and *sometimes* have a match on 2fort where people try to cap but I have a lot of endless deathmatches as well (which I don’t enjoy)
I admittiedly like 2fort as just the hang out and fight and fuck around along with Hightower, if you consider them that and only queue them with that in mind they're quite fun, my only gripe with 2fort is thermal thruster pyros that just cap rush
The only reason why 2Fort stands out is because it's iconic like Dust 2. Otherwise, it plays terrible just like the original maps and the CTF gamemode.
cp granary is shockingly good. people still play it in comp. but ofc well dustbowl gaming
i prefer pl_2fort
Well original maps such as Dustbowl and 2fort have the issue of narrow corridors.
Usually most CTF maps are narrow but Sawmill is perfect in both modes like Koth and CTF as Sawmill is decently open map at least for me so Snipers and Spies benefit more from IT while making classes such as Demoman or Pyros less effective because Pyro has short range and he usually hides near one of the corners that are hard to escape.
So the maps that are more open and doesnt utilize too much narrow corridors are good because they dont screw classes in order to benefit other.
In Mindset:
Pyro utilizes its strength of strong damage on close range and his Average Speed, Pyros usually dont go near larger open areas for extended period of time, they ambush Classes that are unfortunate to go through these corridors.
Demomans similar to Pyros they utilize narrow corridors or corners to make their traps more effective, they dont usually attempt to make carpet out of stickies as they can je disarmed by attentive Pyros.
Spies utilize open areas to reduce chanches to bumbing into enemy and also as escape plan, Pyros hunting Spy in open area has harder time unless Spy is ignited.
The only poorly designed maps from the original 6, in my opinion at least, are dustbowl (even then its not that terrible) and 2fort. The rest are absolute bangers imo.
Well simply bigger maps are objectively better as IT doesnt create big bias towards some classes.
Sawmill IS perfect example, its large map in both KOTH and CTF version and IT has pretty much equal potential for each class.
So Spies dont get Screwed and Snipers are dangerous (and their changebacks doesnt devolve to pointless fight between Snipers at top floor on 2fort) and capitalize very well in opposite way compared to other classes, the farther they are from target the more effective they are.
Pyros mindset always says he shouldnt stay in open spaces for extended period of time. And since Sawmill IS decently balanced with Open and narrow spaces it doesnt create overwhelming biases. Also this statement partly applies to Demoman traps to slight extend.
Scouts and Soldiers have lots of free space while Soldier has bigger Rocket Jumping Spots.
Heavies are mixed bag as they arent really common here but capitalize well between decent sightline and moderately open space So never too narrow or too big as it creates issues of his Longevity as despite Heavys large health pool he can be as easy or as hard to defeat him, it just depends what class you play.
Engineers Also have similar mixed viabilities as the map IS large so the Building placements are less predictable as theres lot more effective spaces.
Medic as always IS never affected by layout of map outside of Health kit placements but this doesnt affect him in his use.
So Sawmill Map is superior in both class balance and overall is more enjoyable and doesnt get stale fast.
14:24 that was an abrupt change in audio
I forgot to add a transition. I fucked it up.
@@poptop89 Thats Ok
I hate the sewers so much. Once you enter or fall by accident, you only have 2 options to get back up (unless you are an explosive class or a FaN Scout, or Thermal Thruster Pyro). Both ways lead up to a crowded area.
And the water is so fucking weirdly colored, I can't see what is in the water.
Then you have the other issue of trying to go through: Asshole demomen (like me 😂) who know that even hugging the walls as you turn to that part with the medkit + ammo won't save you from a high and obscured sticky trap. 😂😂
just use bind kill if you are in a community server with insta respawn XD
Not to mention you also have to deal with a pyro shark on occasion.
Imagine a 2fort map where you didn't need to pass enemy spawn 2 times that it takes longer than their respawn timer to reach the intel once you pass their spawn doors the first time
Well let be honest2fort is a training map it has very limited gameplay potential but for basically every class (barring spy) it teach people the basics and seams to be hard wired to be more likely to be picked
I can agree with that to an extent. As I stated in the video, very basics are easy to pick up here, but without actual objective pushing, many things like Uber timing and Offensive pushes are never picked up.
@@poptop89 yeah its basic but it is atleast a better option given the state of training mode and the casual attitude changing it would kind of ruin the maps charm
I feel people who start playing 2fort will ONLY play 2fort. They feel comfortable with the idea that they only need to shoot enemies. Once they see a gamemode where you objective moves and sitting in one spot is bad and "good" players get mad at you for doing so, they really don't want to do those. It's pretty rare you'd see a new player branch out to the other modes after they play 2fort. Usually they play like 10-100 hours on 2fort then quit tf2 due to not learning much or gettting stale gameplay or very rarely actually change gamemodes and actually have a blast after learning the class/map complexities. (obvious enough, but not facts, just what I think)
@@thatrandomname7788 "I feel people who start playing 2fort will ONLY play 2fort."
Eh, I don't know - seems like an assumption that might be true in a few cases, but I am just not sure if it would be universally true enough to be seen as a valid existing problem w/o data .
@@thatrandomname7788 I don't think that's entirely the case. By this point, most people who discover a game find it through a friend or UA-cam videos and either of those usually lead to players playing other modes.
IT AIN'T 2FORT WITHOUT 3 SENTRIES IN THE INTEL ROOM
Ah good ol 2fort
Sawmill (at least the ctf one) feels like a better 2fort. Its more open but still has that silly gameplay, and almost any loadout/meme will work. Also it might have the most offical verisons (koth, arena, ctf, the smissmas one,)
Isn't Doublecross much more similar to 2fort?
@@draforgg5594 yes
The amount of times someone tried to ban another just because they were trying to cap.
I remember I spent whole days in 2fort, before matchmaking, in 24/7 2fort servers. And as you said, because getting the intel is impossible because there are 2 or more engineers camping the intel room at all times, the map is just a deathmatch map, where you turn off your brain and just shoot to kill.
Since 2fort has an impossible objective, it practical terms it has no objective, so the only thing left is to kill.
Is 2Fort a terrible map for its intended use? Yes.
But is it the best option to fool around in an endless deathmatch when you don’t feel like completing an objective? Also yes.
It can be pretty fucking bad
Funny how the map that the spy has the worst chance at would be the map used in meet the spy
I learned spy on harvest. I would use my cloak to enter the enemy’s building, disguise as sniper, and backstab the snipers standing on the roof
What the hell I got that exact same PAC-MAN mug for Christmas. Absolute chad
2Fort wouldn't be so bad if they just added a timer that can't be extended. Then it would actually force people to play the objective and learn new strategies. Heck, that's what would make all CTF maps better. Without a timer there's no incentive to take risks or actually try to do what the map expects you to do.
no
@@forgottenrift5088 If they want to have deathmatch servers I'm sure they could set them up as a separate game mode. I mean heck, that was kind of the intent with arena mode. The reason a control point was added was so that players wouldn't just camp around and do nothing all day.
@@JCBro-yg8vd lol no, its just 2fort m8
I don't know if I agree with the take on Engineer. I've rarely built in the int room, and I've seen great success building in front of the main entrance, in the room between the entrance and spawn/intel, in the sewer (like you show in the video) or even on the battlements with a wrangler. Hell, I saw a rather impressive engineer keeping a front line outside of our base because there weren't snipers to punish him. There's a lot that class can get away with.
2fort and Hightower are the best goof off maps ever and 2fort specifically is my favorite tf2 map
trimping from the roof of the bridge and then flying over to the snipers will always be fun
mans looks like he was in one linus tech tips video and was never seen again
I was.
@@poptop89 fascinating
2Fort is one of my favorite maps
A
Remember TFC 2fort where you had to capture the flag TEN FUCKING TIMES
You should cover the Sticky Jumper for your next "How Bad Could It Be?" video. Since it is supposed to be "practice" weapon, yet it does have practical application on certain maps in pubs, which makes it a very interesting case scenario.
The Sticky Jumper apparently has been exploited to allow Demomen to pull off "triple jumps" on some maps.
Yup, that’s what happens when you give a class two primaries. Being able to launch yourself across the map with two stickies with no health cost while still keeping your main damage dealer turns a joke/practice weapon into a utility up there with the shields.
2fort is the perfect newbie map. It’s a map with clear boundaries where players can get to learn the basics in a less chaotic way. In most 5cp or payload maps trying to set up a nest or building an uber can be difficult if the enemy is suddenly pushes into you. 2fort is more forgiving in its design as both forts are easy to defend and can give players a chance to experiment with their class in a lower stress situation. I remember picking up demoman for the first time and making a smiling face with stickies. I would never have been able to do that on a map like process or granary with a random scout or soldier blasting you from out of nowhere.
I exclusively play casual community 2fort and turbine.
I can feel your contempt.
Og 2fort looks like a 2fort version of halo
A timer would do wonders for CTF
the original TF2 2Fort didn't have a bridge during development if you look at the original OG teaser trailer. It also has a few other quirks that stand out now such as the SMG being scout's weapon and demoman actually throwing dynamite.
2fort and hightower contracts were worse than hell
That heavy spy checking you when you’re actively over healing him makes me cringe so hard
(13:52) okay, you chose Demoman to counter the engineer there, good choice
(14:12) did you seriously decided to sticky spam a Heavy that is a few metres away from you? You had a grenade launcher
I play a dangerous game.
As a spy main lemme say that 2Fort is a challenge for me to succeed in, but it’s not impossible, if you’re good enough 2Fort can be perfect for trickstabs, and sure spy isn’t the best class, but he can do damage if the person playing him can actually play him, and lemme say that playing 2Fort is the funnest I’ve ever had playing TF2 in years, if you haven’t played 2Fort just try it out for a couple of hours, it’s great
Same, ctf_2fort is where i spentmy first hours, i learned there how to play engineer, basic rocket jump, sticky jump, sniper war, how scouts at the begining of the match can be a problem, oof man
The reasons i hate 2fort: can be eternal or short as the size of a atom in just one place. That's why i love turbine, i feel the progress, if your team dominate one area, could be relevant for the victory, and 2fort can do that, but in the wrong way.
If there was a time limit for ctf maps, and if both teams were tied, and you went into sudden death like how TF2 used to be years ago when it first came out then ctf would be way better and more manageable.
Don't forget the disembodied voice that randomly huffs in in your ear.
You are SOOOOOOO underrated
Also missed opportunity to say Team Fortress 2fort
Left a like because you bought Duke Nukem DLC for this video.
Why doesn't ctf_2fight exist? Like it's literally just 2fort, except the intel briefcases are moved out of bounds so that they're impossible to pick up.
Ditto plr_fighttower.
Can you guys stop criticizing every little part about this video? “tHe aUdiO cHanGeD” “I cAnT sEe sToP wiDesCreEn” It’s pretty sweet if you ask me, he probably put a lot more work into this video than you did typing out that crappy comment.
Destructible 2fort fixes most problems
In QWTF and TFC there were competitive games on 2fort. It really is just because 2fort never updated with TF2, so as the game updated 2fort became a terrible map over time.
HAPPY 1K!
Thank you jacob.
I love 2fort. Never gets boring. It’s not a ctf map is opinionated.
I only usually go to 2 fort when I need to do my contracts. I’ve gotten many of my contracts done by asking in chat for help since 2 fort is (most of the time) friendly
i literally disagree with EVERYTHING he said except the fact that spy struggles.
the biggest thing, and the thing i think you learn the more you play on 2fort, is that engineer is not just restricted to the intel. in fact, placing your nest in the intel alone is an awful idea, as if the enemy team pushes into your base, they basically get to come ALL the way in, only stopping at your intel, which means youre gonna get spawn camped. yes, covering courtyard is always a decent option, but you can also put it on the grate, shutting down the 2 front doors, but opening your team up to a sewers cap. you can put it on the battlements for a temporary option if a scout, pyro, demo, or soldier is harassing your snipers too much. you can set up in either your own or the enemy's sewers, creating a new objective for the enemy team: take out that nest. hell, if your team is willing to work with you to help keep you up and alive, you can put your sentry RIGHT INFRONT OF THE ENEMY'S BASE ON THE BRIDGE. this option is SUPER risky, BUT, can be super effective in locking down the enemy team long enough for your team to coordinate a put.
sniper isnt just delegated to sitting on the battlements. you can stand under your spawn looking all the way down to your sewer entrance/exit, making the enemy have to work around you and go onto your battlements. if you can manage it, standing in the enemy's sewer entrance looking into their base can restrict them from coming down, unless they coordinate a push onto you. you can look all the way down the sewer walk way, making flanks and setting up as engineer harder, and basically getting rid of that health and ammo pack as an option.
although theres more points he said that i have an argument for, those 2 are the most talked about that i think people misunderstand BECAUSE they dont play on 2fort enough, or used to play it when they didnt know what they were doing due to a lack of skill.
2 fort IS simply small map
Sniper, Engineer, Spies are kinda pointless as the corridors are narrow.
Simply entire map in general except the middle bottom part where sewers are IS simply narrow.
Yes its same meme as Hightower and attracts the Meme Playstyle such as Friendlies.
Also CTF and 5CP are flawed game modes across the board as they can take forever and in former theres no time limit.
My reasoning why some classes are pointless and others more powerful.
Engineers have few and very predictable spots for his buildings to be effective
Snipers doesnt really focus on stuff happening on lower floor which leads to endless and pointless Sniper Dueling.
Spies gets screwed because due to narrow corridors they have hard time sneaking into enemy base not to mention your Disguise IS less effective the closer you are to enemy.
Demomans while bit more effective here they suffer the predictability issues for effective trap spots.
Courtyard or Briefcase room to be exact.
Pyros capitalize well on narrow corridors as they are weak in open spaces which as i said theres far to between you have Courtyard. And thanks to their average speed they are much more deadly here. Even while ambushing spots are scarce too, escaping Pyros flamethrower is almost impossible to escape. Also not to mention this map is deadly even in Pyros environmental enemy thanks to neon annihilator so Pyrosharks are also common so simply You cant escape Pyro especially if you desperately try to play as Spy.
Scouts are unchanged pretty much and so the Soldier, which latter excels well thanks to narrow corridors as theres little room to dodge rockets.
Heavies are pretty much outshined here as even while minigun is powerful weapon IT has similar benefits to Pyro albeit Heavy is designed to be defensive class as he has lots of HP can deal some decent damage but is bit slower than Soldier on land not counting rocket jumping mobility. Heavies are simply boring most of time.
Medics are never drastically changed in gameplay regardless of gamemode as they are always useful in any scenario.
So in 2fort you will see less commonly: Spy, Sniper, Engineer
Unchanged: Demoman, Heavy, Scout, Medic
More Common: Pyro, Soldier.
So watch out for Soldier and Pyros as they work super well. While Scouts and Medics are unchanged in general opninion.
When I’m engie I do a mad dash to the enemy intel and build there to solidify my meme status
You have a lot of promise for a small creator good luck
Good video man. You deserve way more views. But... that fov low key makes me sick lmao it feels like its very zoomed out. Wish you the best, bud.
The reasons 2fort is terrible is also what makes it amazing- the bullshit, the brokenness, the memeability, the collective mindset of not playing the game mode all come together to be what 2fort should be- the most TF2 map of all time.
TF2 has outgrown 2fort, but 2fort should never leave TF2. The eternal rounds just...belong, as horrible as they may be in terms of actually playing the objective
which is why it makes me so angry that it's in the Jungle Inferno contracts, along with Hightower
Valve deliberately, and knowingly, completely aware of those two maps'current situation (since they do play their own game at least from time to time plus these maps have been in it for almost the entirety) picked the two worst maps for playing the objective, and forced the playerbase to do it. They could have just made an official deathmatch mode. Instead they force the playerbase for at least a little bit to play the objective on a map where no one wants you to pkay the objective. Disgusting
Man I miss a playable 2 fort
Snipers and intellegence camping turtle engis heaven is 2fort
Spy isn’t the worst on 2fort, took me a while, but there are good places
2fort in general learn me many things for example
rocket jumping
airblast a rocket (thx to this im a pyro main)
etc..
yea this map is bad ngl but it feels like home i started there and i dont wanna stop
you can find many fun players
and most of the time we just chillin
yea the time limit is a problem for many players but not for me
2fort is just something else you know it brings me back every single time tbh i didnt play any other map since
i have 1k hours on TF2 and still playing 2fort
last thing
2fort is home where i can just turn off and enjoy the shit fest
just chillin as engi in the intel room with one scout keep coming in and dying over and over again
its just something about it
none of this has changed my positive opinion on 2fort
How'd you make the gun transparent?
basically 2fort is bad but fun
A fellow arcade lover.
1:50 "inhabiting." I think you mean "exhibiting"
I THINK both would work, but exhibiting is probably better.
Umm, engineer can do some things on 2fort you can't even imagine: ninjaneering to enemy intel, capture roof of bridge, capture endmy battlements, make funny invincible fortress with his 8 engie bros, and a lot more!
21:9 YESSSSSS
ULTRAWIDE SUPREMACY.
GAMER JUICE GAMER JUICE
no i love 2fort its my go to
2Fort is the best and only map in Team Fortress 2.
2fort is one of the og maps that doesn't fit with tf2's design vs TFC or Quake's TF, when you had grenades and a bit more open to the map there were more options to defending and attacking as well as leaving the base with the intel, TF2 has no grenades and kinda neutered the map design
Spy on 2Fort might as well just be French Scout
2fort is my favorite map, its like living in eastern european country, sure its a shithole but its my shithole, jokes aside 2fort has this more casual theme and feeling, you can do anything you want and anything that seems fun, sure making an engineer teleporter base in enemy sewers might not be tactically the best plan, but it creates a great scenario for fighting where both teams are in this tug o' war over the sewers and you try your best to protect this forward outpost, or you can just go jetpack hot hand pyro and slap all the snipers on the enemy team, you can set up melee duels in the sewers too, and since there's usually an engie or two in the intel room you wont loose the game for doing this kind of stupid shit
i dont play 2fort because im not allowed to cap and sometimes kill there
What an incredibly brave, yet controversial opinion.
Spy actually has a high advantage on 2fort
Quick question, what is Canada?
You can play spy with great success on two fort
I train spy on 2fort...
you cat is cute
Why did he hit his desk
Did it hurt him in the past
What did it do wrong?
Is there a dark history we're missing here?
Good video though!
2fort is the easiest map to play semi afk. Such as when you have a baby asleep on you. Just sentry up and relaxo away.
2Fort is the beast map in tf2...
yay
Nooo the server link expired.
:'(
Check the Sydney sleeper video.
1:15 me trying to play hitscan
1:16 *A I M I N G*
Was he aware that he looks like Chris chan in the intro
I just like the map because of the people that play it, I'm not there to win.
whats that soundtrack towards the end of the video?
uh i need specifics.
@@poptop89 14:23 just starts out of nowhere. Now that I think about it, it might be Meet the Sniper
Or Snipers theme
@@Apple-vk3fi It's Magnum Force. It's from Dirty Harry, but it was used in Meet the Sniper when Valve licensed it out for use.
This video should've been 10 minutes
I mean, it could've been if I strictly spoke only about TF2's iteration, but I feel like I did make it very clear 2fort has a much more storied history than TF2.
@@poptop89 No, its word economy is weak and it's bloated as hell.
Can we just say that 2fort is the worst map to play on but also the most played map
I think the biggest and probably only problem is that it's designed for the intended movement in early TF2, rather than the skill level players have these days. Even new players can learn to rocket jump effectively in like an hour.
If everything was scaled up an extra 100% it would probably be a lot more forgiving on classes that need more room to move
The map feels boring. Good if you don't wanna think but if you want to play with some strategy play another map. In my opinion.
Ugh vaccinator on 2fort, I hate you for it
I know. Playing 2fort should be a criminal offense.
Unrelated, I am currently working on the vaccinator episode.
2fort is in that "so bad that it's not even good but TF2 is so fun that every map can be enjoyed" camp
Also what the shit are these custom viewmodel animations