I'd rather stand on Vovin's side. He once also suggested that the Goguryeo language was a sort of the Koreanic family by analyzing the loanwords in some northern languages such as the Khitan and many Tungusic languages and finding that their loanwords have similarity to Middle Korean words. He said those words weren't found in other near related languages but only limitedly. This indirectly tells that the Goguryeo language was Koreanic, and once had a huge influence upon northern languages as a great local power, and this also corresponds to previous historical records and researches.
I find it more likely that Korean is related to the language of Goguryeo to the point of some sort of intelligibility, but not dialects of the same language. I believe that Korean is descended from either the Samhan or the Buyeo languages and that Japanese emerged around the 4th Century as a mix of various Para-Koreanic (possibly Buyeo or Samhan) and Austro-Tai like peoples (the Kumaso, Hayato, and Azumi) as well as several other peoples, as a more recent study notes that 71% of the modern Japanese genome comes from a group separate from the Jomon and the Yayoi. This coincides with the controversial "Horserider Theory" in which a horseriding people conquered Japan. Personally I believe that the Grammatical base and more complex vocabulary (along with Sino-Baekje pronunciations) is derived from the Para-Koreanic peoples while the Basic vocabulary and Phonology from Austro-Tai and other now extinct groups.
Genetic evidence of South Koreans concur with that view. Proto-Korean speakers were from Manchuria. They moved south into the peninsula and mixed with Japonic speakers and created a fusion language, which is the origin of Modern Korean. Due to heavy influx and influence, the language was sinacized to a certain extent. Modern South Koreans retain about 40% of Northern Han Y-DNA. 20% of Mongol/Manchu DNA, and remaining 40% is Yayoi-Japonic. Yayoi tribes are rice farmers who originate from the Yangtze basin. (Their languages are unknown.) They started to migrate out around 3,700-4,200 years ago due to heavy climate change and possible Chinese invasion from the North. Archaeological sites show evidence of heavy flooding for extending periods of time. A genetic trait of Yayoi tribes is that they cannot process alcohol. It's hypothesized as a natural selection for people involved in hydroponic rice producing, meaning people survived better against infectious diseases.
He changes his shoes every fucking second and says the heresy that in the example of the Xiongnu these are Kets and then this is not true, only part of it is that the Japanese have Austronesian origins, this is nonsense. But in your case
Prehistoric period: 0:05 Ancient period (Kingdom of Gojoseon?): 1:53 Proto-Three Kingdoms period: 4:59 Three Kingdoms period: 5:03 Northern and Southern States period: 6:06 Later Three Kingdoms period: 6:22 Dynastic period: 6:25 Colonial period: 7:47 Modern period: 7:50
Please do an updated one for Pre-Proto-Austronesian going to Austronesian. Kinda crazy how that language family expanded all over the world reaching even Madagascar and New Zealand, possibly even South America. And according to Laurent Sargart the Pre-Proto-Austronesians could’ve made it as far north as Shandong, perhaps making contact with the ancestors of Koreans and Japanese. And then there are also southern Japanese tribes like the Kumaso that Japanese linguists think are Austronesian. That’s gonna be one hell of a map to show
While it is overwhelmingly likely that some Polynesian sailors reached South America (either southern Peru or Northern Chile), and *very limited* migration from South America to Rapa Nui happened in the decades thereafter, it is not thought that Polynesians ever permanently settled in South America, or established a permanent trade route.
@@tlgus1022 유전자는 신라계,백제계가 제일 많습니다 고구려지역은 만주쪽이랑 유전자가 비슷한편이고 남한사람들은 일본인이랑 유전자가 가장 비슷한데 이는 본래 한반도남부토착민이었던 야요이인들이 한국어족에 동화되어 상당수가 현대한국인으로 이어졌기 때문이라고 보는게 맞는것같네요
There MUST be some para-Austronesian link between Austronesian proper and Japonic. The phonetic similarities when you hear certain Micronesian languages are intriguing.
some languages seem to disappear or move around so fast in a span of a few years. usually the fastest a language moves is if mass migration or has to shift from generations like around 3-4/5 generations cuz like great grandkids will usually no longer be able to know much about their great grandparents or grandparent's non-state-backed heritage language if the mainstream society outside their household is of a different language
@@ganggang2537 When the heck did they say that Korean is Austroasiatic? They're just saying that they're looking forward for an updated version of Austroasiatic languages in this style.
@@auburntiger6829 I kind of think of Sino-tibetan as more like Semitic, in the fact that it has one major language with a lot of dialects that are near completely unintelligible to each other, one major language spoken by a controversial group of people known for their religion, and a myriad of minor almost extinct languages
If Robbeets' hypothesis were correct, there would be many Japonic influences and loanwords in the Korean language due to few centuries of coexistence of the Macro-Koreanic and Japonic speakers.
Which makes it all the more likely that his hypothesis is wrong, as modern Japanese and Korean, while likely coming from the same ancient language family, are quite different today and share very few cognates.
In fact, if Robbeets' theory was true, then the Japonic and Koreanic languages should be just as similar as the Celtic and Italic languages, but the truth is different, there are many more cognates in common between Icelandic and Nepali than between Japanese and Korean, (the Germanic and Indo-Iranian branches are the most distant from each other within the Indo-European family, so we can get an idea of how low the probability is that both the Japonic and Koreanic languages are related.).
@@lupsastta90 I'd say the major difference is from around 1400 BCE and onward. In Vovin's hypothesis, there was still a clear Japonic presence in the Korean Peninsula at the time, which is different from Robbeets's hypothesis that Koreanic had already moved south. So Robbeets's hypothesis really contradicts with the recent findings in linguistics that Goguryeo language is probably Koreanic, as her timeline & geographic spread would not make sense. Another problem with Robbeet's version is that it contradicts with historical evidence that southern Korean polities such as the Gaya confederacy had maintained trade relations with Japan. Because of that, and a whole bunch of words that were found closer to Japonic than Koreanic, Beckwith has long suggested that the Gaya language was most likely Japonic. This explains why envoys from Gaya did not need translators when communicating with the Yayoi in Japan.
@@auburntiger6829 Do you have any more sources about Gaya envoys not needing translators for Japanese? That's a very interesting piece of information I've never encountered before.
Goguryeo was most dominant country between 3 kingdoms. Prince of Goguryeo was the founder of Bakjae. And early Silla was almost a dependency of Goguryeo.
@user-pj6hs1jg5o what i'm telling you is that Silla's culture are heavily influenced by Goguryeo. And after Silla unified the korean peninsula. Silla rule the peninsula as feudal system. So the Goguryeo and Baejae's noble clan and family kept their identity of their former kingdom.
@user-pj6hs1jg5o It's not many as Silla's surname but there are some Goguryeo, baekjae Surname. You have to know that surname weren't used often in 3 kingdom period only loyal family have one in those time. It often used "after" Silla unified the state.
@@samc9725Baekje actually kingdom who have dominant culture in peninsula because they are more numerous. This is why Korean culture are more Cline with culture of Wu Chinese than northern Chinese like Wei because Baekje influence a lot by southern dynasties.
2017~2019년도에 걸쳐 동북아역사재단, 동아시아 고대학회 등에서 기원전 53년에서 기원후 18년 사이에 작성된 고대 중국의 언어학 서적인 방언(저자: 양웅)에 수록된 요하 지역의 어휘에 대해 연구한 자료에 따르면 요하 지역의 어휘가 인접한 연나라와 공통어휘가 없는 절연상태였으나 고조선 지역 어휘와는 80%가 넘게 공통되는 높은 친연 상태였다고 합니다. 요하 지역에 살던 동호족이 한국의 역사라는 주장은 아닙니다만 한국어족의 기원 및 분포에 대해서 여러모로 흥미로운 연구 결과라 생각됩니다.
영상 너무 잘봤습니다. 언어학 좋아하는 사람으로서 시각적으로 직관적인 이해가 잘 되어서 좋네요. 로비츠는 너무 유물과 고고학연구에만 치중한 거 같아요. 제주어가 고대 신라어에서 나왔다는 거만 봐도,,, 더군다나 미오야마국과 같이 한국어발 느낌이 전혀 아닌 지역명이 나타나는 곳마저 한국어족 화자의 지역이라고 하니,,, 일단 알렉산더 보빈의 가설을 계속 미는 것이 저는 합리적이라고 봅니다 다만 현대 한국어의 직계 조상 언어에 대한 논쟁은 정말 답을 모르겠습니다,,,
이전에는 현재의 남한어라고 부를 언어가이 만들어지기 까지의 역사보다는 글로만 역사를 생각해 왔었는데 이틀 전부터 현재의 언어가 만들어 지기 까지의 역사와 유래가 궁금해지기 시작했습니다. 영어의 역사는 어느정도 알고 있었지만 이런건 생각해보지도 못했거든요. 차차 배워나가야겠어요
Robbeets는 Vovin 등이 주장하는 요동 근처 발원 언어를 Proto-Korean이 아니라 Proto-Japonic으로 고려하고 반도 내 발원한 삼한 언어의 모태가 되는 언어를 Proto-Macro-Korean로 고려한 것으로 보입니다. 이에 Robbeets는 부여계 언어를 한국어가 아닌 일본어계로 나누었고, Vovin 등은 삼한어를 반도일본어로 본 점이 다른 것 같네요. 번거로우시겠지만 한국어족을 일본어족과 함께 보여주는 영상도 재미있을 것 같네요. 좋은 영상 감사드립니다.
Korean and Japanese are completely unrelated. They just shared heavy amounts of contact with each other which lead to both languages developing similarities
Proto-Korean appears to have had some contact with (Proto-)Nivkh/Amuric as seen by a number of loanwords in Korean and Japanese (they can't have been loaned directly into Japonic, as they do not exist in Ryukyuan and no Japonic branch ever had any attested loanwords from nor contact with Amuric, nor Tungusic or Paleosiberian languages [one further possibility is Proto-Ainu, which appears to be a less likely loaner than Old/Middle Korean since many of the loanwords can't be attested in Ainu vis a vis Middle Korean]), which would not have been possible from a Westwards origin. Robbeets did suggest that Proto-(Macro?)Koreanic had a Nivkh/Amuric substrate and Japonic had a Austronesian substrate (in Shandong and Southern Korea), which explains their peculiarly divergent vocabularies. So Proto-Korean either had a closer proximity to Amuric languages (Further Northeastwards) or Amuric variants (maybe the obscure Okjeo?) had a presence much further south than their current location. It however seems unlikely that Nivkh experienced such a northwards movement with the suggested Urheimat of Proto-Koreanic. Aside from that, Vovin did not speculate any possibly location for Proto-Koreanic did he? Aside from a very general direction of Southern Siberia.
Any references for Amuric borrowings in Koreanic? I don't remember seeing Vovin in his Koreo-Japonica (2010) mentioning Nivkh loanwords in Korean. He only mentioned Nivkh and Korean share the same typological trait for their 3-way distinction of stops. And one possible Nivkh loan in Korean for 'wolf' in Vovin (2003) Tungusic and Paleosiberian loans in Korean. Janhunen inclines to believe Puyo may be a possible candidate for where Proto-Amuric was spoken. He thinks Amuric originated further south in Manchuria and later was pushed to Russian Far East by northern expansion of Tungusic. But in order to propose a southern origin of Amuric, Janhunen believes that Koguryo was mostly Tungusic-speaking, and Koreanic originated in the southeastern peninsula, which I doubt. You can find his support for a southern origin of Amuric in his various papers. ua-cam.com/video/SA4yqSmOULc/v-deo.html (start watching from 13:10 where he talks about Puyo may be a candidate for Amuric Urheimat) My personal view is that Proto-Koreanic is probably like Proto-Turkic where its original speakers in southern Siberia shifted to Mongolic, but most spoken by completely genetically different populations in its newly expanded regions due to language shift (E.g., Anatolia: Turkic < Indo-European, Korean Peninsula: Koreanic < Japonic, this may partially explain why modern Korean and Japanese populations share the same major Y-DNA haplogroup O1b2-M176, the low freuqency of O1b2 found in Tungusic speakers in modern Manchuria may be descendants of Koguryos/Parhaes Tungucized and dissovled into Tungusic-speaking population). Proto-Koreanic is from Manchuria and the original PK speakers probably shifted to Tungusic or Mongolic, or even some unknown languages displaced by Tungusic northern expansion (Janhunen and Bugaeva believe that in Northeast Asia before the expansion of 'Altaic'-type languages, there might have been some languages with other typologies similar to indigenous languages spoken in North America, and Ainu may be the sole survivor of that typology not displaced by 'Altaic'-type languages, although Altaicization of Ainu is fairly recent and transparent so it probably started around the 10th c AD, we don't know). Perhaps we should look further north (near the Arctic?) to find possible connections (either borrowing or genetic) to PK. (Has anyone tried to look for connections between Koreanic and Yukaghir?) www.dailymotion.com/video/x7xv00r (start watching 9:00-9:30 where Bugaeva talks about the connection between Ainu and Native American languages in an informal interview) - The typology, to which Ainu and some other North American languages belong to, is termed as 'Trans-Pacific' or 'Circum-Pacific' by Bugaeva and other typologists. Here is a paper on Trans- Pacific typology: www.degruyter.com/document/doi/10.1515/lingty-2021-2079/html - In Vovin (2015) Eskimo Loanwords in Northern Tungusic, he argues that Proto-Eskimo was probably still spoken in somewhere between Northeast Asia and the Bering Strait between 1000 BC-1000 AD. And note that Eskimo has a different typological profile from 'Altaic'.
Regarding your saying “Japonic had a Austronesian substrate (in Shandong and Southern Korea)”, J vocabs of both Shandong and Southern Korea are related to Korea. Initially, natives of Korean peninsula were O1b2 which can be easily proven by its distribution and supported by recent excavations of bones (5000 BC) in South Korea which was turned out to be O1b2. O1b2 in Southern Korea migrated to Japan since 1000 BC, and this is the proto-Japonic language. Regarding relation to Shandong, it’s because of Korean ethnic who were formed by northern migrants (Gojoseon, Buyeo, Qin) who had O2 mixing with existing natives (O1b2) during 200 BC ~ 300 AD. Those migrants founded first nations of Korean people (Mahan and Jinhan) [There are many authentic records about it]. These people are ancestors of modern Koreans and they also migrated to Japan during 300 AD ~ 700 AD. These northeastern migrants are descendants of Shang in Shandong and Yellow River basin, but again the founders of Shang were migrants from the northeast (Liao, 遼河). The northeastern migrants replaced existing vocabs of Korean natives by founding effect while natives’ grammar was maintained, but Korean migrants to Japan during Kofun period (300 AD ~ 538 AD) couldn’t replace the vocabs of the existing Yayoi people. Most of Japanese research regarding their relationship to Yellow River basin and Northeast tend to skip Koreans in their analysis. However, all these research are about Koreans rather than Japanese because the northeastern people first became Koreans mixing with the natives, then Koreans migrated to Japan. There are numerous examples in pure Korean words that are related to Shang and Northeast and Qin.
Historical texts, linguistics, and archaeological findings all point to the same thing. Southern parts of the Korean peninsula was Japonic until proto-Korean speakers migrated southwards. Massive north/south difference in burial customs to agricultural practices. Proto-Korean speakers were genetically similar to that of Manchus and Mongols. 20% of modern South Koreans males fall under Haplogroup C.
지도만 보면 좌측의 한국어족 세력과 우측의 한국어족 세력이 통일신라 이전까지 거의 겹치지 않는데, 그렇다면 통일신라 이전까지 한반도 내에 두 종류의 서로 다른 언어 집단이 구분되어 있었던건 동의하는데, 두 집단 중 어떤 쪽이 통일신라로 이어진 한국어족이냐? 에 따라서 두 가지 이론이 나뉘는 걸로 이해되는데 이런 해석이 맞을까요..
@Russia and South Korea Friendship 다만 그것도 얼마나 통하는 지는 알 수 없는 거죠. 예를 들어서 러시아와 우크라이나 정도의 차이가 될 수도 있는 것이고. 그 정도면 사실상 별개의 언어로 볼 수도 있지만 쉽게 습득할 정도의 유사성은 있죠. 당장 일본어만 해도 한국인이 작심하고 공부하면 두어 달이면 기본 회화 이상을 하니까요. 추정은 할 수 있으니 단정하지는 못하죠.
@Russia and South Korea Friendship 얼마나 다른 지를 모르는 거죠. 영상을 보다시피 백제는 색깔도 다르고 빗금쳐 있거든요. 같은 계통은 맞겠지만 얼마나 다른지 모르며 또한 한국어계열과 일본어계열 2개의 언어를 동시에 사용했다고 볼 수도 있죠. 폴란드어와 러시아어만큼 떨어져도 같은 슬라브어파거든요.
언어는 기본적으로 지배민족의 언어가 하부로 침투하게 되어 있죠. 패망한 백제나 고구려의 언어가 한국어를 주도했을꺼라고는 생각할 수 없고요. 애초에 언어학 자체가 신라어를 기점으로 한국어족을 추적하는 겁니다. 신라어만큼은 한국어가 확실하기 때문이죠. 신라 초대 국왕인 박혁거세 혹은 박불구내 라는 이름 자체가 이보세요! 나 한국어 써요! 이러고 있거든요. 본 영상에서도 색깔로 잘 보여주고 있어요. 7세기를 보시면 신라어가 전국을 장악해나가는 걸로 되어 있죠. 또한 본 영상은 색깔로 국어의 시대를 구분하고 있어요. 고대 국어(회청색) ~10세기. 난립하던 한국어족 사이에서 신라어가 우세를 가지고 언어를 통합해나가는 시기. 중세 국어(파란색). 10~16세기. 패서호족이 역사의 중심을 잡으면서 패서의 방언이 우세를 가지게 되는 시기. 신라어와 고려어는 별개의 언어가 아니라 방언의 차이로 중앙어가 영남에서 패서로 이동했다고 이해하는 게 맞습니다. 근대 국어(연파랑) 17~19세기 조선 중기 이후의 한국어. 현대 국어(하늘색) 20세기~ 서울말을 표준으로 하는 20세기 이후의 한국어. 전국 방언 사용자가 급감하는 시기.
@@sugarfree97 The birth of a nation is a kind of identity, and the identity of Koreans came into being in the Goryeo era.Although Silla unified the Korean Peninsula, the languages and ethnic identities of Fuyu people and Silla people are completely different ~
This is the problem with logographic writing, a language can be written and the only thing you get from it if it is no longer spoken is the sintax and meaning not anything that would allow you to speak it and classify it.
Indeed the language can be easily changed. Just like Manchu ppl can't speak Manchurian anymore 100 years after they conquered china. So is it possible that the aboriginal Korean spoke a different language system and changed their grammar due to the influence of the northerners later? If so it's more understanble why Korean basic words are almost totally different from Mongolian
@@mathamour 반도일본어라는 용어가 낯설어서 그런것 같은데, 보빈이나 로버트나 당신이나 큰틀에서는 모두 똑같은 말을 하고 있습니다 고대 한반도에 있던 언어가 일본으로 간거라구요 물론 그럼 보통 어족 이름을 원류를 따라서 한국어족이라고 하겠지만, 보빈의 경우 한국어 쪽에 부여어군을 부여해서 자연스럽게 남방계 언어를 일본어로 호칭한 것 뿐입니다
@@가나다-y6k 반도일본어가 얼마나 웃기냐면, 일단 번역이 틀렸음. 일본어가 아니고 일본계열? 일본 관련? 이 정도 되는 단어를 아예 일본어라고 못 박음. ㅋㅋ 웃기지도 않은 틀린 번역. 더구나 일본어 비슷한 언어가 한반도에 있던 거랑 일본어랑 직접적으로 관련시키는 이유가? 고따구 논리면 한국어 문법이랑 아주 비슷한 터키어, 몽골어, 그외 중앙아시아 언어는? 터키 몽골사람이 세상에서 한국어가 가장 쉽대. 왜냐? 완전 닮은 언어라서. 심지어 고대 한국어 단어랑 터키어 단어랑 발음과 뜻이 똑같은 단어도 발견됨. 몽골어도 한국어랑 뜻과 발음이 똑같은 단어가 발견됨. 단어 몇 개로 억지 쳐 부리지 말고, 직접적으로 일본인의 조상이 한반도에 살았다는 유적을 발굴해 내야 됨. 유골에서 DNA 를 찾아내던지, 수 천년전 일본인이 사용하던 도구를 발굴해내던지. 그렇게 못하겠으면 한국어와 몽골어 터키어는 같은 언어다 라는 주장을 해도 되는 거
@@mathamour 일본인의 조상은 한국인입니다 이미 유전자 하플로 그룹 검사에서도 두 인종이 거의 동일하게 나왔고, 도래인이 일본인의 조상 - 적어도 야요이인의 조상이라는 것은 민족주의적 사관이 있는 일본 사학계에서도 인정하고 있는데 무슨 말을 하고 싶습니까? 일본 천황도 백제 후손이라는 것을 본인들이 알고 있습니다 그리고 실제로 당신의 주장대로 터키어랑 한국어, 몽골어가 알타이어족 이하 근연관계라는 주장이 있습니다만 기초 어휘와 물증 부족으로 지금은 논란이 되고 있습니다 한국어랑 일본어는 고립어족으로 보기는 하지만, 주류 가설 중 반도 일본어족이 있다는 겁니다 이게 정치적이고 뭐 동북공정 그런게 아니라... 일본인의 조상은 한국인이다 이 정도에요 물론 국가 단위의 정체성이 형성되기 전에 나눠졌지만 하여간이요
@@mathamour 그리고 번역 문제가 아니라, 가야 이하 남방 지역 어휘가 그대로 일본에 넘어가 주류가 되었기 때문에 "반도 일본어설"이라는 말을 하는 것이지, 이것은 오히려 사관을 배제한 정치적인 입장에서는 우리나라에게 이득이 됩니다 물론, 역사적 사실에 주관이 들어가면 안됩니다만 반도 일본어라는 명칭에 크게 집착하는 것 같네요 가령, 한국어도 지금 한국에서 쓰이니까 한국어라고 부르는 겁니다 당신의 주장대로 열도 일본어설 같은 작명을 하자면 한국어->한반도 만주어/요서어 가 됩니다.... 반도 일본어라는 것은 객관적 사실에 따른 명칭 작명이지 열도 한국어라고 해버리면 그게 역사 왜곡이 아니고 뭡니까?
The comparison with your history of Proto-Japonic reveals our unfortunate lack of knowledge about the period between 3000 BC and 1000 BC. My main takeaway is that by 1000 BC, Proto-Japonic and Proto-Koreanic speakers coexisted on the Korean peninsula, and it is likely that the Yayoi maintained a strong connection with the mainland even after migrating to Japan.
Perhaps Korean's ancestor were more likely nomadic people who were recorded as mo（貊）by Zhou(周) dynasty.Cuz probably mo（貊）people called themselves han(韓).
로비츠는 부여어파와 일본어족을 연결지은 예전 크리스토퍼 벡위스의 연구를 인용했습니다. 벡위스는 삼국사기에 기록된 일본어스러운 고구려의 지명을 주로 분석했는데, 보빈은 삼국사기에 나온 이 지명이 고구려어가 아니라 반도 일본어파의 흔적이라고 해석했죠. 그리고 본 영상에 나왔듯이 백제어는 신라어와 매우 비슷했던 것으로 보입니다. 백제어와 일본어의 유사성은 (섬 syema ~ shima, 곰 koma ~ kuma 등) 대부분 일본어에 동화된 백제어 외래어가 원인인데, 이는 백제어스러운 단어가 서부 상대 일본어에서만 등장하고, 백제에서 멀리 떨어진 동부의 방언에서는 등장하지 않는다는 점에서 유추할 수 있습니다.
The Korean alphabet has one advantage：When he was born with a lot of vowel letters(10). Most alphabet what derived directly from hieroglyphs lack vowel letters. For example, Ancient Egyptian letters(a kind of hieroglyphs) - Phoenician alphabet (22 consonants, but he has no vowel letter ) - Aramaic alphabet (all consonants) - Hebrew alphabet (all consonants). Egyptian alphabet - Phoenician alphabet - Greek alphabet (the Greeks first invented seven vowel letters ) - Latin alphabet / Cyrillic alphabet . The Japanese alphabet is what derived directly from hieroglyphics. He also was born with five vowel letters. How magical a thing it is .
What language did the Mumun speak? Could it be Koreanic? So the left side is wrong about Cheju, then right side is even more wrong about Cheju? The colours are a bit similar, but great video. Since the two sides are so different, I wonder if they'll figure it out. Maybe finding new texts from the time (in Korea or other places) could clear things up
Amazing video, and an impressive video format. The only issue I have is that languages appear and disappear way to quickly, as that is very unrealistic unless mass migrations or exterminations happened that changed the linguistic layout quickly. Otherwise it takes many decades or more likely centuries for languages to completely replace one another
If you're talking about the languages of the ancient kingdoms (Koguryo, Kaya, and Paekche), I'm inclined to agree; however, I was actually just following the dates presented in Robbeets' paper.
@@TheDragonHistorian No, I'm not talking about that. What I mean is that languages don't naturally disappear in a matter of years or few decades, some minority speakers remain even centuries after they become minorities. Crimean Gothic language was finally extinct in the late 18th century, despite Goths being there in the 3rd and 4th century and migrating elsewhere. Coptic language that derived from Ancient Egyptian only got extinct in the 17th century despite 1000 years of Arabic domination and also Greek and Roman domination for several centuries before that. There is nothing wrong at all with your research, you did a great job, it's just that large changes happen too quickly in your videos. I also follow a small channel called Costas Mellas, who makes similar videos and shows how slowly such changes occur. But your videos are of much better quality than his in all other respects
@@Maus_Indahaus I don't know if my original comment came across the way I intended, but I meant to say that the reason why Koguryo, Paekche, and Kaya disappear so quickly in this video is because Robbeets' paper says so. But yeah, I agree that it is a little fast. On the other hand, there are actual cases of genocide/ethnic cleansing reflected in this video, too. Parhae, whose speakers were ethnically cleansed by both the Khitans and Jurchens, is the best example. Koreans living in Liaodong during the Yuan and Ming dynasties promptly returned to Korea with the rise of Qing, and Koreans living in Soviet Russia were deported to Central Asia in the 1930s.
동의합니다. 발해 인구를 200만명이라고 했을때 25%정도는 요동으로 강제이주당하고 10%정도는 고려로 10%정도는 여진땅으로 도망치고 50%정도는 계속 남아있었던것으로 보입니다. 90%정도의 발해인들이 북부에 남아있었고 이들이 공중으로 증발해버린 것이 아니기때문에 언어는 유지하고 있었을겁니다. 기록에 따르면 발해인은 금나라때 종족으로서 구별되어 남아있었고 심지어 금나라 전기에는 왕실외척이자 여진인 다음으로 대우가 좋은편이었습니다. 그러다 원나라때에 가서야 기록에 극소수 나오다가 사라집니다. 그러니까 지도에서 언어가 소멸되는건 너무 빠르다고 볼 수 있습니다.
Even fairly 'late'. Maybe that makes it easier to find evidence for one or the other. Of course, it's possible they're both wrong, so it might not be so easy even if you do find something speaking for one or the other
the one on the right seems more credible to me, but then how modern korean got split into its dialects shown on the left seems better for modern era since the recent centuries. can still like show them on the map even as dialects of one language then maybe a gradient over them all with the standard Korean
for koreans manchuria is like kiev to russians and east prussia to germans. long lost land of our ancestors. even mao zedung said liaodung(yodong in korean) penninsula belongs to koreans
I liked Robeets more because it's worth color for at the end meaning there's more languages which is sort of true because there's like dialectal variation a North Korean languages are more different than South Korean And I do not know what is trying to see Cheju it is not a different language
As much as that they can be both wrong, they can be both true, in a way. Here is how. Thinking of a picture, couple of hundreds years ago, in Britain, different people called a specific type of catfish differently. Some go by etymologically very old names, some go by geographically very local names, some names can trace it back to Latin or Celtic stocks before the Germanic tribes’ coming, some can go back really far back to hunter-gatherers in stone ages. But somehow, after a few centuries, all the names stop being used colloquially and become lexical fossils in dictionaries, except for one: catfish. You see, ‘catfish’ is the most analytic and most prevailing one in English, among all the other ways of naming a particular species. That is to say, distributively, some words are just collectively more powerful than others, when talking about ‘generalizing things, extracting them out of its original context in nature, and putting them under a conceptualized category under a name’. Now, continue with my mental experiment, let’s say, catfish, with a group of two words, cat, and fish, are those ‘some words’, which are just better at generalizing concepts, win the game of contest, and they became the survival words, while others just go extinct, dead. If we span the group extensively into a set, with its maximum projection... it is actually a language and/or a language family’s vocabulary stock. And the shadowy, ghostly ‘ancestor population who spoke a proto-form language that contained exactly that stock’, are functionally the one-and-same group of people speaks that language itself. It is to say, to use or not use a so-called continuation paradigm, you can actually seek a way to mathematically prove that the existence of a speculated mother language, does not have to be required when to look at its daughter languages. And that is to say, unreported pure-speculative mother languages are created as an imaginative holder of a vocabulary stock, drawn to act and behave as auxiliary lines as if we were solving a practical geometry problem. To be brief, they are more of imaginative place-holders than actually linguistic species or stages-of-development in a linguistic species’s life cycle. So, both of the two pictures in the opposite sides in the slide can be true simultaneously. As what they are doing is no more than charting groups of people living in certain areas, who had access to a certain vocabulary set, yet one of its sub-set contains a vocabulary stock, the imaginatively substantiated container of which is labeled as ‘Proto-Koreanic’, due to the majority or main bulk of today’s Koreanic languages exhibit the prevalence of that said stock. Can there be other sub-sets of that vocabulary set? Can there be more than one ethnographic origin of words in that stock? Can there be more than one ethnographic group of people who had the access in varying degrees to that-stock/those-stocks? Can there also be other peoples, ethnographically different and living in areas not charted here, also had that/those degree of accessibility and intimacy to said stock? Can said group/groups also get exposed to other stocks? Yes, of course, and yes to all. The charting here is streamlined by mainly Occam's Razor in one author’s mind, not by detected, reported or found evidences, linguistically or archaeologically. What we do know and are certain is, all the other vocabulary substances from other stocks went extinct by getting replaced by the corresponding and/or equivalent members of focused-stock, not because of the Koreanic-ness in the nomenclature of ‘Proto-Koreanic’, but simply because those members happen to be statistically and distributively more powerful and just ‘better’ as conceptualizing and generalizing certain concepts, with the main factors working behind it here being just three things (none of those three is beyond any average layman’s comprehension): 1) analyticality which leads to more likelihood of being used in different combined forms in different contexts and different application scenarios, 2) phonotactic preferences, 3) chance-and/or-what-we-would-never-know.
한국 북부의 나라였던 고조선계열의 나라인 은나라의 갑골문 음성이 한국의 고유어와 일치함. 또한 한반도 남부 끝의 옛 나라 그러니깐 가야의 소국연맹체 이름이 수상할 정도로 일본어 스러움. 그렇다면 한반도의 북부에 있던 나라가 남하 하여 반도 남부의 원시 일본어족 즉 가야세력을 밀어내고 그지역의 언어로 대체한것. 즉 보빈의 가설이 더 설득력있음.
@Paris Prove that Koreans and Vietnamese are useless? Being constantly conquered by Han people, including their own patrilineal lineage, is dominated by O2 of Han people, rather than N line of Tungusic people.😆
@Paris The Han people began to expand in Qin Dynasty, and the Han Dynasty ruled the northern part of the Korean Peninsula. In Tang Dynasty, they conquered the whole of Korea for 20 years, and then existed as vassals for thousands of years.In the last 50 years, Seoul was captured by the People's Liberation Army. South Korea has always defeated the enemy by its sovereign state, and it has always been a waste! By the Chinese to defeat Japan, by the Japanese to defeat China, and by the Americans to remain undefeated.😆
Is it true that the Proto-Koreanic speaking Lyolyeong Bronze Dagger Culture shares some linguistic and genetic DNA from the Donghu and the Xianbei? Or perhaps Para-Yeneseians from the Xiongnu!?! As they both originate from the shallow sea of Lake Baikal?
@@TheDragonHistorian Didn't know you would reply. Anyway, It must have been very hard making & editing all yourself. I hope your channel becomes big, you just earned a subscriber! 😄👍
Proto Korean is much older and its origin is in Siberia. We look the same as them and they even share some cultural practices that we do. But what i don't understand is how in this video history is presented as if to reflect some history, yet in the you basically invent a separate ethnic group when ;japonic' speakers didnt exist at the time. Again more proof that japanese is a language descendant from korea. Those people in northern korea weren't japonic speakers or ethnic group they're descendants of gojoseon and various siberian people.
First, the history of Baekje is compiled in the Nihon Shoki. The ruling class of Baekje (Buyeo) naturalized and became Japanese, so they have no relation to modern Koreans. Please study some history books again. This is also written in the Nihon Shoki and the Song Book of China. Furthermore, when comparing the current Korean genome with the Japanese genome, the Japanese have a higher proportion of northern Amur ethnic groups, while the Koreans have a mixture of DNA from the Han people of the Yellow River. The Yayoi people who came to the Japanese archipelago are a Tungusic people from the Siberian coast, while the Koreans are a people who came from the Yellow River. The ancestors of Japanese people are 70% Buyeo people from Manchuria, 20% Yayoi people who came from the Korean Peninsula, and 10% Jomon people. Therefore, it is physically impossible for Korean ancestors to become Japanese. This is because Japanese and Mongolians have a higher proportion of northern Amur ancestry.
*Origin of Korean Language and the reason why K and J languages are different* To understand origin of Korean language, we need to study history, archeology, science (DNA analysis), etc collectively. First, I’ll briefly explain the history of Korean ethnic, then try to explain why Korean and Japanese have different basic vocabularies while having almost identical grammar. *Historical Background* The Earth's most recent ice age started about 110,000 years ago and ended around 9000 BC. At this time, the sea level was 100 meters lower than now, and the Korean Peninsula, Japan, the Yellow Sea, and Indonesia were connected as one land. This huge land is called Sundaland. Scholars speculate that this Southeast Asian Sundaland may have been the starting point of East Asian civilizations. In the case of East Asian Y-DNA, it was already mutated from NO to N, O2, O1, O1a, O1b1, O1b2, etc. from 30,000 years ago, during the Ice Age. The tribes could be viewed as being of the same genetic group. Each of these gene groups walked through Sundaland and moved to various places such as East Asia, Southeast Asia, and Siberia to settle there. The gene that arrived on the Korean Peninsula about 20,000 years ago was O1b2. As the Ice Age ended 10,000 years ago and the Neolithic Age began, sea levels rose due to the melting glacier and the Yellow Sea was created, and O1b2 was isolated on the Korean Peninsula. This theory is supported by recently excavated bones from Gadeokdo(가덕도, 加德島) in South Korea. They turned out to be 7000 years old, and were found to be O1b2. This Y-DNA was only in Korean peninsula, then later spread to Japan and Manchus. Around 2000 BC, O1b2a2a and O1b2a1 were mutated from O1b2 in south-eastern part of Korea. Around 1000 BC, for some reason a part of the O1b2a1 group migrated to Japan (first Yayoi migration), where the population increased over hundreds of years. Around 200 BC, lots of Dongyi people from the north (Gojoseon, O2) migrated to southern part of K peninsula and founded a nation (Mahan). [Evidence: According to [後漢書], “King Jun of Joseon(Gojoseon) was defeated by Weiman, and led the remaining thousands of people through the sea, attacked Mahan, defeated Mahan, and established himself as the king of Han(韓).” According to [三國志], “With every dawn, many refugees flowed into Mahan's homeland, and Mahan was founded.”] Then, Qin migrants (O2) arrived in K peninsula and found a nation (Jinhan). [Evidence: According to [魏書 東夷傳, 後漢書], “Jinhan (辰韓) people were refugees from Qin (秦) to avoid hard labor, and Mahan allocated the eastern border (Jinhan).” According to [三國遺事], “辰韓(Jinhan) is also called 秦韓.”] According to a history book 繋年, Qin people were also Dongyi who were descendants of Shang. Those migrated Dongyi (O2) mixed with the natives (O1b2). From that time, many peoples O1b2 + O2 of K peninsula have begun to migrate to Japan (second Yayoi migration) until 660 AD when Baekjae was destroyed. Then, after AD, another northern Dongyi (Buyeo, O2 + C2) arrived in K peninsula and founded Goguryo and Baekje. [Evidence: According to [魏書 東夷傳], “Goguryeo was an another kind of Buyeo.” According to [後漢書], “Baekje was an another kind of Buyeo.”] That’s why modern Koreans have O2(45%, Dongyi migrants from the north), O1b2(35% ~ 40%, natives), C(13% ~ 20%, migrants from the north). However, in Japan, the first Yayoi migrants were O1b2 and the second Yayoi migrants were (O1b2 + O2) (both from K peninsula). Thus, O1b2 population is two times higher than O2 (O2 arrived late on the K Peninsula). Yayoi migrants mixed with Jomon and became today’s Japanese. *If Yayoi were migrants from K to J, why their basic vocabs are totally different?* There is a big mystery that Korean and Japanese have almost identical grammar, but their basic vocabulary is completely different. In my opinion, this is because modern Japanese language was the language from the first Yayoi migrants (O1b2) from K peninsula around 1000 BC. As I mentioned above, many people from the north migrated to southern part of K peninsula and founded nations (Mahan and Jinhan) around 200 BC and they rapidly replaced most of major vocabs of the natives which is called *Founder Effect* while the grammar of the natives was maintained. Even though these new Koreans (natives + northern Dongyi) also migrated to J (second Yayoi migration), they could not overwhelm the population and language of the existing Yayoi group. Interesting fact about Korean language is that many of pure Korean words have the same sound as ancient Dongyi words (上古音). This might be the evidence that Dongyi migrators (Gojoseon, Qin) rapidly replaced vocabs of the natives. There are three possibilities: these Korean words were influenced by Gojoseon or Qin or Buyeo. *1. First possibility (Gojoseon)* According to a Chinese source, a descendant from a royal family of Shang dynasty migrated with 5000 people and founded Gojoseon. Later, Gojoseon people founded Mahan. That’s why many ancient sound of Shang words exist in Korean language. *2. Second possibility (Qin)* 上古音 normally refers to the Hanja sound from late Shang dynasty to Qin dynasty. Qin migrants established Jinhan and the descendants of Jinhan (Silla) unified K peninsula. Therefore, the similarity between the sound of Korean words and 上古音 is most likely due to the influence of the vocabulary of the Qin. *3. Third possibility (Buyeo)* The ruling class of Goguryo and Baekje were from Buyeo and Buyeo were descendants of Shang as mentioned above. Therefore, there is possibility that Buyeo words might have contributed to Korean words. However, it is less likely than the above two scenarios because Silla unified K peninsula. In my opinion, the second scenario is most likely. According to [魏書 東夷傳, 後漢書], “the elder people in Jinhan claimed themselves being refuges of Qin and some people speak Qin language (辰韓, 耆老自言秦之亡人, 避苦役, 適韓國, 馬韓割東界地與之. 其名國爲邦, 弓爲弧, 賊爲寇, 行酒爲行觴, 相呼爲徒, 有似秦語, 故或名之爲秦韓)” However, Qin was also descendants of Shang according to 繋年. Thus, all these three possibilities might've had an overall effect. Note: The famous Chinese archaeologist 蘇秉琦 asserted, “The ancestors of Shang range from Yan Mountain (Hebei) in the south to 白山黑水 (whole area of Manchu) in the north.” And the famous Chinese historian 傅斯年 asserted, “Shang dynasty came from the northeast and prospered, and when Shang collapsed, they went back to the northeast.” Chinese academia also admit that these views of 蘇秉琦and 傅斯年 are the most accurate. Many J people claim that Japanese language originated from Goguryo or Buyeo based on some few words such as numbers, but it cannot be the evidence at all. They might have adopted Goguryo numbers just as Koreans adopted Chinese numbers. According to their history book [日本書紀], the language of Baekje and the language of Japan were different, so an interpreter was needed. If Japanese originated from Buyeo, there should be no problem in communication between Baekje and Japan.
(번역) 한국어의 기원을 알기 위해서는 역사, 고고학, 과학 (DNA 분석) 등을 종합적으로 살펴볼 필요가 있습니다. 먼저 한국인의 기원에 대해 간단히 소개한 이후, 한국어와 일본어가 문법은 거의 일치함에도 불구하고 기본 어휘가 완전히 다른 이유에 대해 설명하겠습니다. 우선, 지구의 가장 최근 빙하기는 약 11만년전에 시작되어 기원전 9000년 경에 끝나게 되는데, 이 방하기 때에는 지금보다 해수면이 100미터 낮아 한반도, 일본, 서해, 인도네시아가 하나로 연결된 육지였으며 이 거대한 육지를 순다랜드 라고 부르며, 이 동남아시아 순다랜드가 동아시아인의 문명 출발점이었을 것으로 학자들은 추측합니다. 동아시아인 Y-DNA의 경우 이미 빙하시대인 3만년 전에 NO 에서 N, O2, O1, O1a, O1b1, O1b2 등으로 분화가 되는데, 그때는 인구가 아주 적었고 한 부족이 수명에서 수십명 밖에 되지 않았기 때문에 한 부족은 동일 유전자 집단이었다고 볼 수 있었습니다. 이 각각의 유전자 집단이 순다랜드를 걸어서 동아시아, 동남아시아, 시베리아 등의 다양한 곳으로 이동하여 정착을 하게 되며 한반도에 약 2만년 전에 도착한 유전자가 O1b2 입니다. 1만년 전에 빙하기가 끝나고 신석기 시대가 시작되면서 녹은 빙하 때문에 해수면이 상승하여 서해가 생겨나면서 O1b2 가 한반도에 고립되었으며 이는 얼마전 가덕도에서 발굴된 유골의 Y-DNA 가 신석기 시대인 7000년 전의 유골이며 Y-DNA 가 O1b2 였음이 밝혀지면서 더욱 분명해졌습니다. 이후 이 Y-DNA 는 일본과 만주지역으로 퍼지게 됩니다. 한반도 토착민 유전자 O1b2 는 기원전 1000년 경에 일본이주를 시작했으며(1차 야요이 이동), 요하지역 및 산동에서 고대 동이족(O2 계열의 고조선 유민, 진나라 유민, 북부여 유민)이 선진문명을 갖고 대규모로 이주해와 나라를(삼한)을 세우면서 토착민 O1b2와 섞여 한민족이 탄생했으며, 이 한민족이 다시 삼한시대에서 삼국시대를 거쳐 일본으로 이주하면서(2차 야요이 이동) 현대 일본인이 탄생하였습니다. 기원전 2000년경 한반도 동남부에서 한반도 토착민 유전자 O1b2 로부터 O1b2a2a 와 O1b2a1 변이가 발생하였으며, 기원전 1000년경 O1b2a1 의 일부가 일본으로 이주하게 되며 (1차 야요이 이동) 수백년에 걸쳐 일본에서 수가 늘어납니다. 그 후, 기원전 200년경 북쪽에서 동이족(고조선 유민, O2)이 대거 남하하여 마한을 세우게 됩니다. [역사적 근거 - [후한서]: “조선왕 ‘준’이 ‘위만’에게 깨져 이에 장수와 남은 무리 수천을 이끌고 바다로 들어가 도망하여, 마한을 공격하고 이를 깨뜨린 후 스스로 ‘한왕(韓王)’에 올랐다” [삼국지]: “많은 유민들이 마한의 고토로 흘러들어 마한이 세워지게 되었다”]. 이후, 진나라 유민에 한반도에 도착하여 진한을 세우게 됩니다. [역사적 근거 - [삼국지][후한서]: “진한(辰韓)은, 그 늙은이가 스스로 말하기를 진(秦)의 망명인으로, 고된 역을 피하여 한국(韓國)에 오자 마한이 동쪽 경계를 떼어 주었다고 한다. 그 언어는 마한과 같지 않았다. 그들의 언어는 진(秦)나라 언어와 비슷하였다” [삼국유사]: “진한(辰韓)은 (중국 진나라 진(秦)을 써서) 진한(秦韓)이라고 부르는 자가 있다”] 이때부터 한국인은 고조선 등에서 이주해온 동이족(O2)과 한반도 토착민(O1b2)이 결합한 민족이 되었으며, 이들(O2 + O1b2)의 많은 수가 기원후 660년 백제가 멸망할 때까지 일본으로 이주하게 됩니다 (2차 야요이 이동). 기원후에는 또다른 동이족인 부여(O2 + C2) 민족이 남하여 고구려와 백제를 건국하게 됩니다. [역사적 근거 - [삼국지]: “고구려는 부여의 별종이다”, [후한서]: “백제는 부여의 별종이다”] 따라서, 오늘날의 한국인은 다음과 같은 Y-DNA 분포를 갖게 되었습니다: O2(43% ~ 45%, 북방에서 남하한 동이족), O1b2(35% ~ 40%, 한반도 토착민), C2(13% ~ 20%, 몽골계 북방족). 하지만, 일본의 경우 1차 야요이 이주민은 한반도 토착민인 O1b2 였으며 2차 야이요 이주민은 동이족과 토착민의 결합으로 형성된 한민족인 O1b2 + O2 였습니다. 이것이 일본의 경우 O1b2 가 O2 보다 두 배 더 많은 이유입니다. 야요이 이주민이 일본의 토착민이었던 조몬인과 결합하여 오늘날의 일본인이 형성되었습니다. 한국어와 일본어는 문법은 거의 같지만 기본 어휘는 완전히 다르다는 미스테리가 있습니다. 제 생각에는 현대 일본어가 기원전 1000년경 한반도에서 처음으로 이주한 야요이(O1b2)의 언어였기 때문이라고 생각합니다. 앞서 언급한 바와 같이 BC 200년경 북방에서 많은 사람들이 남하하여 나라(마한과 진한)을 세웠고, 이들은 Founder Effect 에 의해 토착민의 주요 어휘를 빠르게 대체했지만 토착어의 문법은 유지가 되는 현상을 겪었기 때문으로 추정됩니다. 오늘날의 한국어의 경우 아주 특이한 점이 발견되는데, 순수 한국어 어휘의 상당수가 고대 요하지역 동이족의 어휘였던 한자 상고음의 발음과 거의 완벽히 일치하는 경우가 많습니다. 이에 대해 세가지 해석이 가능합니다. 1. 고조선 어휘의 영향 중국측 자료에 의하면 요하지역 동이족이 중국 중원으로 남하하여 세운 상나라가 패망한 직후 그 왕족이 유민을 이끌고 동북으로 이동하여 고조선을 세웠으며 그 고조선이 위만조선에 패망한 후 남하하여 마한을 세웠기 때문에 한국어에 상나라 어휘의 상당수가 존재한다는 설명. 2. 부여 어휘의 영향 부여족이 남하하여 고구려와 백제를 세웠기 때문에 부여어의 영향이라는 설명. 하지만, 부여 또한 고조선과 동일한 예맥족이었음. 3. 진나라 어휘의 영향 한자 상고음이란 상나라 후기 때부터 진나라 시대까지의 한자음, 특히 진나라 시대의 한자음이며, 위에서 설명했듯 진나라 유민이 세운 진한의 후예 신라가 삼국을 통일하였기 때문에 진나라 어휘의 영향이라는 설명. 계년(繋年)에 의하면 주나라 성왕이 상나라 유민의 반란을 진압한 뒤 지금의 산동성 상개(商盖)의 주민을 서부 간쑤성으로 이주시켰는데, 이들이 바로 진나라의 조상이 됐다고 밝히고 있으므로, 진나라인들 또한 요하에서 남하한 동이족이었음. 따라서, 위 세가지 경우가 복합적으로 작용하여 한국어 어휘에 영향을 끼쳤다고 볼 수 있습니다. 많은 일본인들은 숫자 등 일부 어휘를 근거로 일본어는 고구려어 또는 부여어에서 기원하였다고 주장하나 이는 전혀 근거가 될 수 없습니다. 우리가 중국식 숫자를 도입했듯 일본은 고구려 숫자를 도입했을 뿐입니다. 그들의 역사서 [일본서기] 에 의하면, 백제어와 일본어가 달라 통역가가 필요했다고 밝히고 있습니다. 일본어가 부여어에서 기원했다면 백제어와 일본어은 의사소통에 문제가 없었어야 합니다. 일본인들이 한반도가 아닌 북방에서 자신들의 기원을 찾으려는 시도는 첫째, 자신들이 한반도에서 유래했다는 것을 싫어하며 둘째, 대륙 진출에 대한 야욕이 그들의 마음속에 자리잡고 있기 때문입니다.
The Sundaland theory is one of the most stupidest theory I've read. The most recent theory regarding the origin of East Eurasian race with strong evidence is in Mainland Southeast Asia starting from Himalaya.
@@alimybad You might be right. The point is that O1b2 arrived in Korean peninsula at least far before 7000 years ago (based on recent excavation of bone in South Korea), then O2 arrived in Korean peninsula much later. O1b2 was found only in Korean peninsula, then later they moved to Japan and Manchuria.
A new study in 2021 now found that modern Japanese have 70% of their autosomal DNA traced back to the Yellow River basin where it shows the highest affinity (the Kofun migration), yet Japan’s haplogroup group O2 percentage is much lower than Koreans. What do you make of this recent revelation?
DNA from ancient human bones has revealed that the indigenous people of the southern part of the Korean Peninsula were the Jomon people of the Japanese archipelago.
I seen most of author follow Vovin about Goguryeo origins. Robbeets seem out of the story ... However, Goguryeo can mean because of it's indecisive position mean korean and japonic can be in a proto family. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classification_of_the_Japonic_languages
So out of all the ethnic groups, which one are the Koreans most related to/possibly descended from or was the ancestor of? Yeneseian? Sinitic? Japonic? Tungusic? Mongolic? Austroasiatic? Austronesian? or Kra-Dai?
로비츠는 모르겠는데 오른쪽 알렉산더 보빈은 이해도 엄청 높을걸요? 한국어와 일본어 언어 연구의 권위자고 한국어랑 일본어도 잘하신다네요 논문보면 삼국사기 같은 사서들이나 우리나라 향가에 대해서 연구한것도 있다고 합니다 그리고 로비츠는 역사보다는 고고학을 바탕으로 연구한거라고 합니다
Robbeets's hypothesis is more likely. Becase Jin -> Silla, Baekje(commoner) -> United Silla -> Goryeo -> Modern Korean Otherwise Joseon -> Goguryeo -> Baekje(noble) -> Ancient Japanese
Nope. Vovin's hypothesis is much more likely. Vovin and Whitman are more famous linguists than Robbeets. Most of modern linguists have focused on Vovin's hypothesis.
Approximately 70% of Japanese people have DNA from northern systems such as the Yellow River and Liao River systems, the remaining 20% are from southern China, and the remaining 10% are from the Jomon system. Koreans have more southern DNA than Japanese people. However, there are exceptions, and the Okinawans and Ainu people are of southern descent. It has a lot of DNA.
The root of Korean language is Silla language. The Manchu language is rooted in the Buyeo language. According to Chinese records, the Baekje and Silla peoples speak different languages.
@@알리오-o8w That's a theory that completely ignores linguistics. The way Baekje is pronounced is completely different. Baekje in Buyeo is cun-nala Baekje in Goryeo (Korean) is pec-jye Baekje in Japanese is kudara
@@PaektuMountain 국제적인 언어, 역사학계는 아직도 매큔-라인샤워 표기법을 선호합니다. 보통 고유명사는 매큔-라인샤워 표기법으로, 기타 어휘는 예일 표기법으로 씁니다. (낱말이 아닌 한 문장을 표기하는 경우, 고유명사가 들어갔더라도 예일법이 사용됩니다.) 이 영상을 만들때 참조한 논문 및 각종 자료들도 전부 매큔-라인샤워 표기법을 사용했고, 영상을 만들때 저도 그 관습을 따랐습니다. 이 영상에서는 고구려어를 Koguryŏ, 백제어를 Paekche 등으로 표기했고, Puyŏ도 마찬가지일 뿐입니다.
I'm Korean, and I watched this video with great interest, and I'm about to object to writing East Sea on the map.The sea is strictly called East Sea. It is by no means Sea of Japan. I want this video corrected. Many people want to know that Sea of Japan is an incorrect name.
The predecessor of Germany, the Germanic region, also claimed to be the Holy Roman Empire, just as the regimes of the peninsula misappropriated the name card of Goryeo（Korea\Goguryeo). In fact, this situation is also very common in ethnic minority regimes in Chinese history. Han, Jin, Zhou, and Wei were all taken as country names by barbarians. One thing is that since Goguryeo was overthrown and the southern indigenous state of Silla achieved victory, it is reasonable to say that the indigenous language in the southern part of the peninsula should became the mainstream. And Goguryeo has already perished, how can Goguryeo language eventually assimilate into the southern part of the peninsula? So we should believe that the languages of the indigenous people in the southern peninsula are the main ancestors of Korean language today. Combining some vocabulary similar to Japanese pronunciation left over from the historical materials of Goguryeo, it can only lead to one conclusion: Goguryeo Buyeo people and the royal family of Baekje speak another language that is close to Japanese, while the indigenous people in the southern part of the peninsula such as Silla and Baekje are the ones who speak Samhan languages. The languages of Samhan(three hans) is the predecessor of Korean. After the fall of Goguryeo, the colonizers of Baekje fled to the Japanese archipelago, and the Fuyu speaking population of Goguryeo was splited everywhere in northeast Asia, which ultimately gave the opportunity for Samhan languages to unify the peninsula.
잘못된 고고학을 근거로 비정했으니까요. 로베이츠의 논문은 이미 2022년 1월에 일본쪽에서 반박 논문 나왔습니다. 요즘 부여계 민족이 일본을 건국했다는 기마민족설은 일본 주류 언어학계와 고고학계에선 부정되는 추세입니다. 다만 일본 학자들이 고구려어를 한국어족으로 보는 것도 아니고 퉁구스어화된 고아시아 민족의 언어라고 보는게 일반적. 국제 언어학계에선 일단 고구려어는 한국어족으로 보는게 일반적인 견해입니다. 이기문과 로버트 램지의 저서의 영향이 컸음.
I'd rather stand on Vovin's side. He once also suggested that the Goguryeo language was a sort of the Koreanic family by analyzing the loanwords in some northern languages such as the Khitan and many Tungusic languages and finding that their loanwords have similarity to Middle Korean words. He said those words weren't found in other near related languages but only limitedly. This indirectly tells that the Goguryeo language was Koreanic, and once had a huge influence upon northern languages as a great local power, and this also corresponds to previous historical records and researches.
I find it more likely that Korean is related to the language of Goguryeo to the point of some sort of intelligibility, but not dialects of the same language.
I believe that Korean is descended from either the Samhan or the Buyeo languages and that Japanese emerged around the 4th Century as a mix of various Para-Koreanic (possibly Buyeo or Samhan) and Austro-Tai like peoples (the Kumaso, Hayato, and Azumi) as well as several other peoples, as a more recent study notes that 71% of the modern Japanese genome comes from a group separate from the Jomon and the Yayoi. This coincides with the controversial "Horserider Theory" in which a horseriding people conquered Japan.
Personally I believe that the Grammatical base and more complex vocabulary (along with Sino-Baekje pronunciations) is derived from the Para-Koreanic peoples while the Basic vocabulary and Phonology from Austro-Tai and other now extinct groups.
Vovin also doesn't subscribe to that long-discredited Altaic theory that Robbeets espouses.
Genetic evidence of South Koreans concur with that view. Proto-Korean speakers were from Manchuria. They moved south into the peninsula and mixed with Japonic speakers and created a fusion language, which is the origin of Modern Korean. Due to heavy influx and influence, the language was sinacized to a certain extent. Modern South Koreans retain about 40% of Northern Han Y-DNA. 20% of Mongol/Manchu DNA, and remaining 40% is Yayoi-Japonic.
Yayoi tribes are rice farmers who originate from the Yangtze basin. (Their languages are unknown.) They started to migrate out around 3,700-4,200 years ago due to heavy climate change and possible Chinese invasion from the North. Archaeological sites show evidence of heavy flooding for extending periods of time. A genetic trait of Yayoi tribes is that they cannot process alcohol. It's hypothesized as a natural selection for people involved in hydroponic rice producing, meaning people survived better against infectious diseases.
@@yo2trader539 So I guess that Han branches such as Mahan was mixed by Proto- Koreans speakers and Yayoi people.
I thought you believed that Korean was related to Mongolian?
22년 4월 8일 세상을 떠나신 알렉산더 보빈 교수님. 너무나 허망하네요. 안식을 취하십시오.
He changes his shoes every fucking second and says the heresy that in the example of the Xiongnu these are Kets and then this is not true, only part of it is that the Japanese have Austronesian origins, this is nonsense. But in your case
Prehistoric period: 0:05
Ancient period (Kingdom of Gojoseon?): 1:53
Proto-Three Kingdoms period: 4:59
Three Kingdoms period: 5:03
Northern and Southern States period: 6:06
Later Three Kingdoms period: 6:22
Dynastic period: 6:25
Colonial period: 7:47
Modern period: 7:50
Please do an updated one for Pre-Proto-Austronesian going to Austronesian. Kinda crazy how that language family expanded all over the world reaching even Madagascar and New Zealand, possibly even South America. And according to Laurent Sargart the Pre-Proto-Austronesians could’ve made it as far north as Shandong, perhaps making contact with the ancestors of Koreans and Japanese. And then there are also southern Japanese tribes like the Kumaso that Japanese linguists think are Austronesian. That’s gonna be one hell of a map to show
While it is overwhelmingly likely that some Polynesian sailors reached South America (either southern Peru or Northern Chile), and *very limited* migration from South America to Rapa Nui happened in the decades thereafter, it is not thought that Polynesians ever permanently settled in South America, or established a permanent trade route.
실제로 고구려어의 어휘를 기록한 문헌을 보면 오히려 신라 언어나 백제 언어보다 고구려 언어가 현대 한국어와 매우 높은 단어적 유사성을 보였습니다. 지금의 한국인은 고구려의 유전자나 언어를 가장 많이 받았다는 것이 정설입니다
@@tlgus1022 유전자는 신라계,백제계가 제일 많습니다
고구려지역은 만주쪽이랑 유전자가 비슷한편이고 남한사람들은 일본인이랑 유전자가 가장 비슷한데 이는 본래 한반도남부토착민이었던 야요이인들이 한국어족에 동화되어 상당수가 현대한국인으로 이어졌기 때문이라고 보는게 맞는것같네요
@@kimurahundoshi4485 all Koreans have similar genes to Manchuria and northern China more so than japan
There MUST be some para-Austronesian link between Austronesian proper and Japonic. The phonetic similarities when you hear certain Micronesian languages are intriguing.
some languages seem to disappear or move around so fast in a span of a few years. usually the fastest a language moves is if mass migration or has to shift from generations like around 3-4/5 generations cuz like great grandkids will usually no longer be able to know much about their great grandparents or grandparent's non-state-backed heritage language if the mainstream society outside their household is of a different language
Great idea, the two different views, and nice creation.
오...
I really like this new format you're using, it's very interesting to see the different theories compared in such a way, great video!
실제로 고구려어의 어휘를 기록한 문헌을 보면 오히려 신라 언어나 백제 언어보다 고구려 언어가 현대 한국어와 매우 높은 단어적 유사성을 보였습니다. 지금의 한국인은 고구려의 유전자나 언어를 가장 많이 받았다는 것이 정설입니다
Really like this format, looking forward to the updated Austroasiatic one with multiple hypotheses!
There is no way on earth that Korean is an Austroasiatic language. Maybe Japanese due to its phonetic and vowel structure but even that’s a stretch
@@ganggang2537 When the heck did they say that Korean is Austroasiatic? They're just saying that they're looking forward for an updated version of Austroasiatic languages in this style.
이곳은 환빠 국뽕 물도 안 들고 역갤 국까 물도 안 든 객관적인 채널이라 마음에 듭니다.
I do like these side by side comparisons of what different scholars think happened, perhaps one on Sinitic would be nice?
That’d be dope. Kinda crazy how Sino-Tibetan split into so many distant languages like the Indo-European language family
@@auburntiger6829 I kind of think of Sino-tibetan as more like Semitic, in the fact that it has one major language with a lot of dialects that are near completely unintelligible to each other, one major language spoken by a controversial group of people known for their religion, and a myriad of minor almost extinct languages
@@celtofcanaanesurix2245 "controversial" means?
Wow this is incredibly well researched
If Robbeets' hypothesis were correct, there would be many Japonic influences and loanwords in the Korean language due to few centuries of coexistence of the Macro-Koreanic and Japonic speakers.
Which makes it all the more likely that his hypothesis is wrong, as modern Japanese and Korean, while likely coming from the same ancient language family, are quite different today and share very few cognates.
In fact, if Robbeets' theory was true, then the Japonic and Koreanic languages should be just as similar as the Celtic and Italic languages, but the truth is different, there are many more cognates in common between Icelandic and Nepali than between Japanese and Korean, (the Germanic and Indo-Iranian branches are the most distant from each other within the Indo-European family, so we can get an idea of how low the probability is that both the Japonic and Koreanic languages are related.).
Wow! Very detailed and objective!!!👍🏻💙
I respect Vovin’s hypothesis more considering that current linguistics evidence all point to the upper-class speech of Goguryeo to be Koreanic
I guess it just depends on what identifies as Koreanic, the early history of Koreanic and Japonic are intertwined with each other
실제로 고구려어의 어휘를 기록한 문헌을 보면 오히려 신라 언어나 백제 언어보다 고구려 언어가 현대 한국어와 매우 높은 단어적 유사성을 보였습니다. 지금의 한국인은 고구려의 유전자나 언어를 가장 많이 받았다는 것이 정설입니다
@@lupsastta90 I'd say the major difference is from around 1400 BCE and onward. In Vovin's hypothesis, there was still a clear Japonic presence in the Korean Peninsula at the time, which is different from Robbeets's hypothesis that Koreanic had already moved south. So Robbeets's hypothesis really contradicts with the recent findings in linguistics that Goguryeo language is probably Koreanic, as her timeline & geographic spread would not make sense. Another problem with Robbeet's version is that it contradicts with historical evidence that southern Korean polities such as the Gaya confederacy had maintained trade relations with Japan. Because of that, and a whole bunch of words that were found closer to Japonic than Koreanic, Beckwith has long suggested that the Gaya language was most likely Japonic. This explains why envoys from Gaya did not need translators when communicating with the Yayoi in Japan.
@@auburntiger6829 Do you have any more sources about Gaya envoys not needing translators for Japanese? That's a very interesting piece of information I've never encountered before.
@@tlgus1022 당장 고려를 세운 왕건과 그 세력이 고구려계 신라인들이었던 패서 호족들이 주축이었던지라 가능성이 높다고 생각합니다
Goguryeo was most dominant country between 3 kingdoms. Prince of Goguryeo was the founder of Bakjae. And early Silla was almost a dependency of Goguryeo.
Silla is the one that unify peninsula which dominate culturally after unification.
@user-pj6hs1jg5o what i'm telling you is that Silla's culture are heavily influenced by Goguryeo. And after Silla unified the korean peninsula. Silla rule the peninsula as feudal system. So the Goguryeo and Baejae's noble clan and family kept their identity of their former kingdom.
@@samc9725 But why are modern Korean using Silla surname and Fuyu Goguryeo and Baekjae surname extinct?
@user-pj6hs1jg5o It's not many as Silla's surname but there are some Goguryeo, baekjae Surname. You have to know that surname weren't used often in 3 kingdom period only loyal family have one in those time. It often used "after" Silla unified the state.
@@samc9725Baekje actually kingdom who have dominant culture in peninsula because they are more numerous. This is why Korean culture are more Cline with culture of Wu Chinese than northern Chinese like Wei because Baekje influence a lot by southern dynasties.
2017~2019년도에 걸쳐 동북아역사재단, 동아시아 고대학회 등에서 기원전 53년에서 기원후 18년 사이에 작성된 고대 중국의 언어학 서적인 방언(저자: 양웅)에 수록된 요하 지역의 어휘에 대해 연구한 자료에 따르면 요하 지역의 어휘가 인접한 연나라와 공통어휘가 없는 절연상태였으나 고조선 지역 어휘와는 80%가 넘게 공통되는 높은 친연 상태였다고 합니다.
요하 지역에 살던 동호족이 한국의 역사라는 주장은 아닙니다만 한국어족의 기원 및 분포에 대해서 여러모로 흥미로운 연구 결과라 생각됩니다.
우와 이렇게 좋은 채널이 있었다니!
영상 너무 잘봤습니다. 언어학 좋아하는 사람으로서 시각적으로 직관적인 이해가 잘 되어서 좋네요.
로비츠는 너무 유물과 고고학연구에만 치중한 거 같아요. 제주어가 고대 신라어에서 나왔다는 거만 봐도,,, 더군다나 미오야마국과 같이 한국어발 느낌이 전혀 아닌 지역명이 나타나는 곳마저 한국어족 화자의 지역이라고 하니,,,
일단 알렉산더 보빈의 가설을 계속 미는 것이 저는 합리적이라고 봅니다
다만 현대 한국어의 직계 조상 언어에 대한 논쟁은 정말 답을 모르겠습니다,,,
이전에는 현재의 남한어라고 부를 언어가이 만들어지기 까지의 역사보다는 글로만 역사를 생각해 왔었는데 이틀 전부터 현재의 언어가 만들어 지기 까지의 역사와 유래가 궁금해지기 시작했습니다.
영어의 역사는 어느정도 알고 있었지만 이런건 생각해보지도 못했거든요. 차차 배워나가야겠어요
이 영상을 중국이 좋아합니다 ㅋㄴ
@@두비두비-h7e 한국인의 조상이 요서지방 요동지방에 걸쳐있는건 고고학유물로도 밝혀진 사실입니다. 오히려 중국에 계속 밀려서 한반도까지 오게된거지요. 한반도의 원주민이었던 사람들을 다 죽였을거라 생각되어지고요.
ㅋㅋ 한반도에 일본어? 보빈한테 낚이셨네. ㅋㅋ 같은 논리로 일본 대마도 사투리랑 한국어랑 비슷하니까, 열도한국어설 제기해도 되 쥬? ㅋㅎㅋㅋㅎㅋ
@@mathamour ? 병쉰인가.... 대마도는 한국한테 경제적으로 의존해온 세월이 2000년인데 무슨 개소리를 하고 있는건지...
Robbeets는 Vovin 등이 주장하는 요동 근처 발원 언어를 Proto-Korean이 아니라 Proto-Japonic으로 고려하고 반도 내 발원한 삼한 언어의 모태가 되는 언어를 Proto-Macro-Korean로 고려한 것으로 보입니다. 이에 Robbeets는 부여계 언어를 한국어가 아닌 일본어계로 나누었고, Vovin 등은 삼한어를 반도일본어로 본 점이 다른 것 같네요.
번거로우시겠지만 한국어족을 일본어족과 함께 보여주는 영상도 재미있을 것 같네요. 좋은 영상 감사드립니다.
Proto-macro는 한국어로 번역하면 무엇으로 번역해야할까용?
Korean and Japanese are completely unrelated. They just shared heavy amounts of contact with each other which lead to both languages developing similarities
@@ganggang2537 chinese is completed unrelated to all Transeurasian language family.
Do koreans legit write non korean words in the latin script?
감사합니다. 채널주인님.
대한민국 역사를 다시 한번 느낍니다. 감사합니다
확실한 건 고구려어는 한국어족임은 틀림없는 거 같습니다. 뭐 국뽕이니 민족주의니를 떠나서요. 아무래도 보빈이 설득력 있다고 느껴지나 로비츠의 가설도 특정 부분은 일리가 있다고 생각되네요
@Xi Jinping any evidence?
@Xi Jinping chinese being chinese lol
@Xi Jinping
Goguyo is korea.
Dang dynasty was not china.
@Xi Jinping 은나라는 중국이 아닙니다. 당나라도 중국이 아닙니다. 단지 중국은 지배를 받은것입니다
@xijinping472 +100 social credit
아니 이럴수가! 일본어족 가설에 이은 한국어족 가설 까지!
역사룡의 정체가 몰까?!?!
Proto-Korean appears to have had some contact with (Proto-)Nivkh/Amuric as seen by a number of loanwords in Korean and Japanese (they can't have been loaned directly into Japonic, as they do not exist in Ryukyuan and no Japonic branch ever had any attested loanwords from nor contact with Amuric, nor Tungusic or Paleosiberian languages [one further possibility is Proto-Ainu, which appears to be a less likely loaner than Old/Middle Korean since many of the loanwords can't be attested in Ainu vis a vis Middle Korean]), which would not have been possible from a Westwards origin. Robbeets did suggest that Proto-(Macro?)Koreanic had a Nivkh/Amuric substrate and Japonic had a Austronesian substrate (in Shandong and Southern Korea), which explains their peculiarly divergent vocabularies.
So Proto-Korean either had a closer proximity to Amuric languages (Further Northeastwards) or Amuric variants (maybe the obscure Okjeo?) had a presence much further south than their current location. It however seems unlikely that Nivkh experienced such a northwards movement with the suggested Urheimat of Proto-Koreanic.
Aside from that, Vovin did not speculate any possibly location for Proto-Koreanic did he? Aside from a very general direction of Southern Siberia.
Any references for Amuric borrowings in Koreanic? I don't remember seeing Vovin in his Koreo-Japonica (2010) mentioning Nivkh loanwords in Korean. He only mentioned Nivkh and Korean share the same typological trait for their 3-way distinction of stops. And one possible Nivkh loan in Korean for 'wolf' in Vovin (2003) Tungusic and Paleosiberian loans in Korean.
Janhunen inclines to believe Puyo may be a possible candidate for where Proto-Amuric was spoken. He thinks Amuric originated further south in Manchuria and later was pushed to Russian Far East by northern expansion of Tungusic. But in order to propose a southern origin of Amuric, Janhunen believes that Koguryo was mostly Tungusic-speaking, and Koreanic originated in the southeastern peninsula, which I doubt. You can find his support for a southern origin of Amuric in his various papers.
ua-cam.com/video/SA4yqSmOULc/v-deo.html (start watching from 13:10 where he talks about Puyo may be a candidate for Amuric Urheimat)
My personal view is that Proto-Koreanic is probably like Proto-Turkic where its original speakers in southern Siberia shifted to Mongolic, but most spoken by completely genetically different populations in its newly expanded regions due to language shift (E.g., Anatolia: Turkic < Indo-European, Korean Peninsula: Koreanic < Japonic, this may partially explain why modern Korean and Japanese populations share the same major Y-DNA haplogroup O1b2-M176, the low freuqency of O1b2 found in Tungusic speakers in modern Manchuria may be descendants of Koguryos/Parhaes Tungucized and dissovled into Tungusic-speaking population). Proto-Koreanic is from Manchuria and the original PK speakers probably shifted to Tungusic or Mongolic, or even some unknown languages displaced by Tungusic northern expansion (Janhunen and Bugaeva believe that in Northeast Asia before the expansion of 'Altaic'-type languages, there might have been some languages with other typologies similar to indigenous languages spoken in North America, and Ainu may be the sole survivor of that typology not displaced by 'Altaic'-type languages, although Altaicization of Ainu is fairly recent and transparent so it probably started around the 10th c AD, we don't know). Perhaps we should look further north (near the Arctic?) to find possible connections (either borrowing or genetic) to PK. (Has anyone tried to look for connections between Koreanic and Yukaghir?)
www.dailymotion.com/video/x7xv00r (start watching 9:00-9:30 where Bugaeva talks about the connection between Ainu and Native American languages in an informal interview)
- The typology, to which Ainu and some other North American languages belong to, is termed as 'Trans-Pacific' or 'Circum-Pacific' by Bugaeva and other typologists. Here is a paper on Trans- Pacific typology: www.degruyter.com/document/doi/10.1515/lingty-2021-2079/html
- In Vovin (2015) Eskimo Loanwords in Northern Tungusic, he argues that Proto-Eskimo was probably still spoken in somewhere between Northeast Asia and the Bering Strait between 1000 BC-1000 AD. And note that Eskimo has a different typological profile from 'Altaic'.
Regarding your saying “Japonic had a Austronesian substrate (in Shandong and Southern Korea)”, J vocabs of both Shandong and Southern Korea are related to Korea. Initially, natives of Korean peninsula were O1b2 which can be easily proven by its distribution and supported by recent excavations of bones (5000 BC) in South Korea which was turned out to be O1b2. O1b2 in Southern Korea migrated to Japan since 1000 BC, and this is the proto-Japonic language. Regarding relation to Shandong, it’s because of Korean ethnic who were formed by northern migrants (Gojoseon, Buyeo, Qin) who had O2 mixing with existing natives (O1b2) during 200 BC ~ 300 AD. Those migrants founded first nations of Korean people (Mahan and Jinhan) [There are many authentic records about it]. These people are ancestors of modern Koreans and they also migrated to Japan during 300 AD ~ 700 AD. These northeastern migrants are descendants of Shang in Shandong and Yellow River basin, but again the founders of Shang were migrants from the northeast (Liao, 遼河). The northeastern migrants replaced existing vocabs of Korean natives by founding effect while natives’ grammar was maintained, but Korean migrants to Japan during Kofun period (300 AD ~ 538 AD) couldn’t replace the vocabs of the existing Yayoi people. Most of Japanese research regarding their relationship to Yellow River basin and Northeast tend to skip Koreans in their analysis. However, all these research are about Koreans rather than Japanese because the northeastern people first became Koreans mixing with the natives, then Koreans migrated to Japan. There are numerous examples in pure Korean words that are related to Shang and Northeast and Qin.
Historical texts, linguistics, and archaeological findings all point to the same thing. Southern parts of the Korean peninsula was Japonic until proto-Korean speakers migrated southwards. Massive north/south difference in burial customs to agricultural practices. Proto-Korean speakers were genetically similar to that of Manchus and Mongols. 20% of modern South Koreans males fall under Haplogroup C.
지도만 보면 좌측의 한국어족 세력과 우측의 한국어족 세력이 통일신라 이전까지 거의 겹치지 않는데, 그렇다면 통일신라 이전까지 한반도 내에 두 종류의 서로 다른 언어 집단이 구분되어 있었던건 동의하는데, 두 집단 중 어떤 쪽이 통일신라로 이어진 한국어족이냐? 에 따라서 두 가지 이론이 나뉘는 걸로 이해되는데 이런 해석이 맞을까요..
@Russia and South Korea Friendship 다만 그것도 얼마나 통하는 지는 알 수 없는 거죠. 예를 들어서 러시아와 우크라이나 정도의 차이가 될 수도 있는 것이고. 그 정도면 사실상 별개의 언어로 볼 수도 있지만 쉽게 습득할 정도의 유사성은 있죠. 당장 일본어만 해도 한국인이 작심하고 공부하면 두어 달이면 기본 회화 이상을 하니까요. 추정은 할 수 있으니 단정하지는 못하죠.
@Russia and South Korea Friendship 얼마나 다른 지를 모르는 거죠. 영상을 보다시피 백제는 색깔도 다르고 빗금쳐 있거든요. 같은 계통은 맞겠지만 얼마나 다른지 모르며 또한 한국어계열과 일본어계열 2개의 언어를 동시에 사용했다고 볼 수도 있죠. 폴란드어와 러시아어만큼 떨어져도 같은 슬라브어파거든요.
언어는 기본적으로 지배민족의 언어가 하부로 침투하게 되어 있죠. 패망한 백제나 고구려의 언어가 한국어를 주도했을꺼라고는 생각할 수 없고요. 애초에 언어학 자체가 신라어를 기점으로 한국어족을 추적하는 겁니다. 신라어만큼은 한국어가 확실하기 때문이죠. 신라 초대 국왕인 박혁거세 혹은 박불구내 라는 이름 자체가 이보세요! 나 한국어 써요! 이러고 있거든요. 본 영상에서도 색깔로 잘 보여주고 있어요. 7세기를 보시면 신라어가 전국을 장악해나가는 걸로 되어 있죠. 또한 본 영상은 색깔로 국어의 시대를 구분하고 있어요.
고대 국어(회청색) ~10세기. 난립하던 한국어족 사이에서 신라어가 우세를 가지고 언어를 통합해나가는 시기.
중세 국어(파란색). 10~16세기. 패서호족이 역사의 중심을 잡으면서 패서의 방언이 우세를 가지게 되는 시기. 신라어와 고려어는 별개의 언어가 아니라 방언의 차이로 중앙어가 영남에서 패서로 이동했다고 이해하는 게 맞습니다.
근대 국어(연파랑) 17~19세기 조선 중기 이후의 한국어.
현대 국어(하늘색) 20세기~ 서울말을 표준으로 하는 20세기 이후의 한국어. 전국 방언 사용자가 급감하는 시기.
@Russia and South Korea Friendship 고구려가 왜 중국 역사죠? 중국식 제국주의 사관을 가지고 있나요?
@@sugarfree97 The birth of a nation is a kind of identity, and the identity of Koreans came into being in the Goryeo era.Although Silla unified the Korean Peninsula, the languages and ethnic identities of Fuyu people and Silla people are completely different ~
Anyway, I like the musics. I recognize the last one, it sounds like the Arirang.
It's Arirang, right
너무 좋아요 ㅎㅎㅎㅎㅎㅎㅎㅎ
This is the problem with logographic writing, a language can be written and the only thing you get from it if it is no longer spoken is the sintax and meaning not anything that would allow you to speak it and classify it.
Indeed the language can be easily changed. Just like Manchu ppl can't speak Manchurian anymore 100 years after they conquered china. So is it possible that the aboriginal Korean spoke a different language system and changed their grammar due to the influence of the northerners later? If so it's more understanble why Korean basic words are almost totally different from Mongolian
영상 잘봤습니다. 보빈의 가설이 훨씬 설득력있네요.
한국어족 일본어족 역사 동시에 표시되는
영상 만들어주시면 좋겠습니다~
한반도에 일본어? 보빈한테 낚이셨네. ㅋㅋ 같은 논리로 일본 대마도 사투리랑 한국어랑 비슷하니까, 열도한국어설 제기해도 되쥬? ㅋㅋㅋㅋ
@@mathamour
반도일본어라는 용어가 낯설어서 그런것 같은데,
보빈이나 로버트나 당신이나 큰틀에서는 모두 똑같은 말을 하고 있습니다
고대 한반도에 있던 언어가 일본으로 간거라구요
물론 그럼 보통 어족 이름을 원류를 따라서 한국어족이라고 하겠지만,
보빈의 경우 한국어 쪽에 부여어군을 부여해서 자연스럽게 남방계 언어를 일본어로 호칭한 것 뿐입니다
@@가나다-y6k 반도일본어가 얼마나 웃기냐면, 일단 번역이 틀렸음. 일본어가 아니고 일본계열? 일본 관련? 이 정도 되는 단어를 아예 일본어라고 못 박음. ㅋㅋ 웃기지도 않은 틀린 번역. 더구나 일본어 비슷한 언어가 한반도에 있던 거랑 일본어랑 직접적으로 관련시키는 이유가? 고따구 논리면 한국어 문법이랑 아주 비슷한 터키어, 몽골어, 그외 중앙아시아 언어는? 터키 몽골사람이 세상에서 한국어가 가장 쉽대. 왜냐? 완전 닮은 언어라서. 심지어 고대 한국어 단어랑 터키어 단어랑 발음과 뜻이 똑같은 단어도 발견됨. 몽골어도 한국어랑 뜻과 발음이 똑같은 단어가 발견됨. 단어 몇 개로 억지 쳐 부리지 말고, 직접적으로 일본인의 조상이 한반도에 살았다는 유적을 발굴해 내야 됨. 유골에서 DNA 를 찾아내던지, 수 천년전 일본인이 사용하던 도구를 발굴해내던지. 그렇게 못하겠으면 한국어와 몽골어 터키어는 같은 언어다 라는 주장을 해도 되는 거
@@mathamour
일본인의 조상은 한국인입니다
이미 유전자 하플로 그룹 검사에서도 두 인종이 거의 동일하게 나왔고, 도래인이 일본인의 조상 - 적어도 야요이인의 조상이라는 것은 민족주의적 사관이 있는 일본 사학계에서도 인정하고 있는데 무슨 말을 하고 싶습니까? 일본 천황도 백제 후손이라는 것을 본인들이 알고 있습니다
그리고 실제로 당신의 주장대로 터키어랑 한국어, 몽골어가 알타이어족 이하 근연관계라는 주장이 있습니다만 기초 어휘와 물증 부족으로 지금은 논란이 되고 있습니다
한국어랑 일본어는 고립어족으로 보기는 하지만, 주류 가설 중 반도 일본어족이 있다는 겁니다
이게 정치적이고 뭐 동북공정 그런게 아니라...
일본인의 조상은 한국인이다 이 정도에요
물론 국가 단위의 정체성이 형성되기 전에 나눠졌지만 하여간이요
@@mathamour
그리고 번역 문제가 아니라, 가야 이하 남방 지역 어휘가 그대로 일본에 넘어가 주류가 되었기 때문에 "반도 일본어설"이라는 말을 하는 것이지, 이것은 오히려 사관을 배제한 정치적인 입장에서는 우리나라에게 이득이 됩니다
물론, 역사적 사실에 주관이 들어가면 안됩니다만 반도 일본어라는 명칭에 크게 집착하는 것 같네요
가령, 한국어도 지금 한국에서 쓰이니까 한국어라고 부르는 겁니다
당신의 주장대로 열도 일본어설 같은 작명을 하자면 한국어->한반도 만주어/요서어 가 됩니다....
반도 일본어라는 것은 객관적 사실에 따른 명칭 작명이지 열도 한국어라고 해버리면 그게 역사 왜곡이 아니고 뭡니까?
Do you have a preference for any of these academics in general? Do any of them offer better arguments overall?
고구려어에서 기원했다고 주장되어지는 할아버지,망아지등의 단어를 보면 보빈의 가설이 더 신빙성 있어보이네요.
저기 순전히 궁금해서 그러는데 그런 자료 어디서 찾아요. 구글에서 할아버지 고구려어 쳐도 안나오는데
@@seunglee9885 이기문의 고구려어 어휘 일람 논문 검색하면 나와요!
실제로 고구려어의 어휘를 기록한 문헌을 보면 오히려 신라 언어나 백제 언어보다 고구려 언어가 현대 한국어와 매우 높은 단어적 유사성을 보였습니다. 지금의 한국인은 고구려의 유전자나 언어를 가장 많이 받았다는 것이 정설입니다
@Paris열도ㅡ반도ㅡ만주인들은 유전적으로 거의 같은거로 알고있어요
@@tlgus1022 반대임
오히려 백제-신라계 유전자가 가장 많이 남아있다는 연구결과가 있음
The comparison with your history of Proto-Japonic reveals our unfortunate lack of knowledge about the period between 3000 BC and 1000 BC. My main takeaway is that by 1000 BC, Proto-Japonic and Proto-Koreanic speakers coexisted on the Korean peninsula, and it is likely that the Yayoi maintained a strong connection with the mainland even after migrating to Japan.
They clearly do maintain connection with mainland even in kofun and Yamato period
Perhaps Korean's ancestor were more likely nomadic people who were recorded as mo（貊）by Zhou(周) dynasty.Cuz probably mo（貊）people called themselves han(韓).
그리고 질문 하나 드려도 될까요?
로비츠는 부여어족과 일본어족의 연결을 어떤 증거에서 확정지었나요? 제가 관심은 엄청 많은데 아직 논문을 우다다 읽을 정도는 아니어서요,,,,
고대 백제어 보면 그냥 일본어임
@@hoony29 일본서기 비다츠 천황조의 기록에서는 백제와 고대 야마토와의 언어가 달라 역관을 두었다고 기록되어 있습니다
로비츠는 부여어파와 일본어족을 연결지은 예전 크리스토퍼 벡위스의 연구를 인용했습니다. 벡위스는 삼국사기에 기록된 일본어스러운 고구려의 지명을 주로 분석했는데, 보빈은 삼국사기에 나온 이 지명이 고구려어가 아니라 반도 일본어파의 흔적이라고 해석했죠. 그리고 본 영상에 나왔듯이 백제어는 신라어와 매우 비슷했던 것으로 보입니다.
백제어와 일본어의 유사성은 (섬 syema ~ shima, 곰 koma ~ kuma 등) 대부분 일본어에 동화된 백제어 외래어가 원인인데, 이는 백제어스러운 단어가 서부 상대 일본어에서만 등장하고, 백제에서 멀리 떨어진 동부의 방언에서는 등장하지 않는다는 점에서 유추할 수 있습니다.
The Korean alphabet has one advantage：When he was born with a lot of vowel letters(10). Most alphabet what derived directly from hieroglyphs lack vowel letters. For example, Ancient Egyptian letters(a kind of hieroglyphs) - Phoenician alphabet (22 consonants, but he has no vowel letter ) - Aramaic alphabet (all consonants) - Hebrew alphabet (all consonants). Egyptian alphabet - Phoenician alphabet - Greek alphabet (the Greeks first invented seven vowel letters ) - Latin alphabet / Cyrillic alphabet . The Japanese alphabet is what derived directly from hieroglyphics. He also was born with five vowel letters. How magical a thing it is .
Use it/它 instead of he/他.
Um, the greeks didn't invent anything lol
@@human7491exactly, they were just copycats.
와ㅏㅏㅏ 너무 좋아요!
RIP Vovin
잘 보고 있어요 :)
What language did the Mumun speak? Could it be Koreanic?
So the left side is wrong about Cheju, then right side is even more wrong about Cheju?
The colours are a bit similar, but great video. Since the two sides are so different, I wonder if they'll figure it out. Maybe finding new texts from the time (in Korea or other places) could clear things up
Probably proto Japonic
Mumun probably proto japonic and original place of Yayoi people.
Thanks for sharing
Amazing video, and an impressive video format. The only issue I have is that languages appear and disappear way to quickly, as that is very unrealistic unless mass migrations or exterminations happened that changed the linguistic layout quickly. Otherwise it takes many decades or more likely centuries for languages to completely replace one another
If you're talking about the languages of the ancient kingdoms (Koguryo, Kaya, and Paekche), I'm inclined to agree; however, I was actually just following the dates presented in Robbeets' paper.
@@TheDragonHistorian No, I'm not talking about that. What I mean is that languages don't naturally disappear in a matter of years or few decades, some minority speakers remain even centuries after they become minorities. Crimean Gothic language was finally extinct in the late 18th century, despite Goths being there in the 3rd and 4th century and migrating elsewhere. Coptic language that derived from Ancient Egyptian only got extinct in the 17th century despite 1000 years of Arabic domination and also Greek and Roman domination for several centuries before that. There is nothing wrong at all with your research, you did a great job, it's just that large changes happen too quickly in your videos. I also follow a small channel called Costas Mellas, who makes similar videos and shows how slowly such changes occur. But your videos are of much better quality than his in all other respects
@@Maus_Indahaus I don't know if my original comment came across the way I intended, but I meant to say that the reason why Koguryo, Paekche, and Kaya disappear so quickly in this video is because Robbeets' paper says so. But yeah, I agree that it is a little fast.
On the other hand, there are actual cases of genocide/ethnic cleansing reflected in this video, too. Parhae, whose speakers were ethnically cleansed by both the Khitans and Jurchens, is the best example. Koreans living in Liaodong during the Yuan and Ming dynasties promptly returned to Korea with the rise of Qing, and Koreans living in Soviet Russia were deported to Central Asia in the 1930s.
동의합니다.
발해 인구를 200만명이라고 했을때 25%정도는 요동으로 강제이주당하고 10%정도는 고려로 10%정도는 여진땅으로 도망치고 50%정도는 계속 남아있었던것으로 보입니다.
90%정도의 발해인들이 북부에 남아있었고 이들이 공중으로 증발해버린 것이 아니기때문에 언어는 유지하고 있었을겁니다.
기록에 따르면 발해인은 금나라때 종족으로서 구별되어 남아있었고 심지어 금나라 전기에는 왕실외척이자 여진인 다음으로 대우가 좋은편이었습니다. 그러다 원나라때에 가서야 기록에 극소수 나오다가 사라집니다.
그러니까 지도에서 언어가 소멸되는건 너무 빠르다고 볼 수 있습니다.
Left and right are so different. Thanks.
Even fairly 'late'. Maybe that makes it easier to find evidence for one or the other.
Of course, it's possible they're both wrong, so it might not be so easy even if you do find something speaking for one or the other
Your channel is amazing.
the one on the right seems more credible to me, but then how modern korean got split into its dialects shown on the left seems better for modern era since the recent centuries. can still like show them on the map even as dialects of one language then maybe a gradient over them all with the standard Korean
I like the dialect variation, but just starting it with "Trans-Eurasian Language Family" makes it all feel a bit weird to me.
for koreans manchuria is like kiev to russians and east prussia to germans.
long lost land of our ancestors.
even mao zedung said liaodung(yodong in korean) penninsula belongs to koreans
Lol bullshit Manchuria belongs to the Manchus, not Koreans.
@@YummYakitori I'm sorry i can't hear you over the sound of Hiroshima 😉
@@YummYakitori we know that but Koreans also originate in Manchuria/china too lol if not where do you think they came from?
@@YummYakitori out of nowhere? Lol
lol
I liked Robeets more because it's worth color for at the end meaning there's more languages which is sort of true because there's like dialectal variation a North Korean languages are more different than South Korean And I do not know what is trying to see Cheju it is not a different language
So you just ignored every other thing?
보빈의 말이 설득력이 있고 고조선이 사용하는 언어는 반도 일본어 부여가 사용하는 언어는 원시 한국어
그 때 거기 있었다는 걸 어떻게 알까요? 문자도 제대로 없었을 텐데...
As much as that they can be both wrong, they can be both true, in a way. Here is how.
Thinking of a picture, couple of hundreds years ago, in Britain, different people called a specific type of catfish differently. Some go by etymologically very old names, some go by geographically very local names, some names can trace it back to Latin or Celtic stocks before the Germanic tribes’ coming, some can go back really far back to hunter-gatherers in stone ages. But somehow, after a few centuries, all the names stop being used colloquially and become lexical fossils in dictionaries, except for one: catfish.
You see, ‘catfish’ is the most analytic and most prevailing one in English, among all the other ways of naming a particular species. That is to say, distributively, some words are just collectively more powerful than others, when talking about ‘generalizing things, extracting them out of its original context in nature, and putting them under a conceptualized category under a name’.
Now, continue with my mental experiment, let’s say, catfish, with a group of two words, cat, and fish, are those ‘some words’, which are just better at generalizing concepts, win the game of contest, and they became the survival words, while others just go extinct, dead.
If we span the group extensively into a set, with its maximum projection... it is actually a language and/or a language family’s vocabulary stock. And the shadowy, ghostly ‘ancestor population who spoke a proto-form language that contained exactly that stock’, are functionally the one-and-same group of people speaks that language itself.
It is to say, to use or not use a so-called continuation paradigm, you can actually seek a way to mathematically prove that the existence of a speculated mother language, does not have to be required when to look at its daughter languages. And that is to say, unreported pure-speculative mother languages are created as an imaginative holder of a vocabulary stock, drawn to act and behave as auxiliary lines as if we were solving a practical geometry problem. To be brief, they are more of imaginative place-holders than actually linguistic species or stages-of-development in a linguistic species’s life cycle.
So, both of the two pictures in the opposite sides in the slide can be true simultaneously. As what they are doing is no more than charting groups of people living in certain areas, who had access to a certain vocabulary set, yet one of its sub-set contains a vocabulary stock, the imaginatively substantiated container of which is labeled as ‘Proto-Koreanic’, due to the majority or main bulk of today’s Koreanic languages exhibit the prevalence of that said stock.
Can there be other sub-sets of that vocabulary set? Can there be more than one ethnographic origin of words in that stock? Can there be more than one ethnographic group of people who had the access in varying degrees to that-stock/those-stocks? Can there also be other peoples, ethnographically different and living in areas not charted here, also had that/those degree of accessibility and intimacy to said stock? Can said group/groups also get exposed to other stocks? Yes, of course, and yes to all. The charting here is streamlined by mainly Occam's Razor in one author’s mind, not by detected, reported or found evidences, linguistically or archaeologically. What we do know and are certain is, all the other vocabulary substances from other stocks went extinct by getting replaced by the corresponding and/or equivalent members of focused-stock, not because of the Koreanic-ness in the nomenclature of ‘Proto-Koreanic’, but simply because those members happen to be statistically and distributively more powerful and just ‘better’ as conceptualizing and generalizing certain concepts, with the main factors working behind it here being just three things (none of those three is beyond any average layman’s comprehension): 1) analyticality which leads to more likelihood of being used in different combined forms in different contexts and different application scenarios, 2) phonotactic preferences, 3) chance-and/or-what-we-would-never-know.
한국 북부의 나라였던 고조선계열의 나라인 은나라의 갑골문 음성이 한국의 고유어와 일치함. 또한 한반도 남부 끝의 옛 나라 그러니깐 가야의 소국연맹체 이름이 수상할 정도로 일본어 스러움. 그렇다면 한반도의 북부에 있던 나라가 남하 하여 반도 남부의 원시 일본어족 즉 가야세력을 밀어내고 그지역의 언어로 대체한것. 즉 보빈의 가설이 더 설득력있음.
Smooth Animation.
Contrary to original meaning of “proto-Language”, most of authors use “proto-Koreanic” not for pre-Old Korean but for pre-LMK.
Robbeets is very nonsensical. I knew that from the sevond her transeurasian theory went out
Proto-Macro는 한국어로 번역하면 무엇으로 번역해야할까요?
예맥족의 언어는 현재 한국어보다는 만주/퉁구스어와 더 비슷했던 것으로 봄.. 일본어가 한국어보다 더 예맥족언어와 비슷했다는 주장들이 있던데 그건 예맥어를 쓰던 백제 상류층이 일본으로 건너간 결과일꺼임
왜 특히 현재 한국어? 고대 한국어는 비슷함?
진짜 전혀 아닌 이야기들만 늘어놓는것도 재주
와 이제야 한중일 언어의 발생이 대략적인 감이 오네요 진짜 대단하십니다
@Paris 보빈은 일본어도 중국대륙으로 봅니다.
@Paris Prove that Koreans and Vietnamese are useless? Being constantly conquered by Han people, including their own patrilineal lineage, is dominated by O2 of Han people, rather than N line of Tungusic people.😆
@Paris The Han people began to expand in Qin Dynasty, and the Han Dynasty ruled the northern part of the Korean Peninsula. In Tang Dynasty, they conquered the whole of Korea for 20 years, and then existed as vassals for thousands of years.In the last 50 years, Seoul was captured by the People's Liberation Army. South Korea has always defeated the enemy by its sovereign state, and it has always been a waste! By the Chinese to defeat Japan, by the Japanese to defeat China, and by the Americans to remain undefeated.😆
@@知-k3q hi corona
@@kimurahundoshi4485 hi slave
Is it true that the Proto-Koreanic speaking Lyolyeong Bronze Dagger Culture shares some linguistic and genetic DNA from the Donghu and the Xianbei? Or perhaps Para-Yeneseians from the Xiongnu!?! As they both originate from the shallow sea of Lake Baikal?
Xiongnu were Turkic people. There is no such thing as para yeniseian.
작은 건의하나 드린다면 한국어 자막도 작게해주세요.넘커서 뒤에를 다가립니다.너무 잘보고있습니다.감사합니다.
그거는 유튜브 디폴트 자막이라 자막>옵션 가셔서 글씨크기 작게 해주시면 되요
@@pradeepsumit9870 감사합니다! 조절해서보니 가림없이잘보입니다!
Did you just delete it and upload it again???
Yeah, I had a couple typos and a few other editing errors in the first version.
@@TheDragonHistorian Didn't know you would reply. Anyway, It must have been very hard making & editing all yourself. I hope your channel becomes big, you just earned a subscriber! 😄👍
@@alimybad Thank you for your kind words!
best youtuber in the world
Robbeets always have more accurate Unheirmait but Vovin always have better classification.
this reminds me of minerva scientia's channel
Proto Korean is much older and its origin is in Siberia. We look the same as them and they even share some cultural practices that we do. But what i don't understand is how in this video history is presented as if to reflect some history, yet in the you basically invent a separate ethnic group when ;japonic' speakers didnt exist at the time. Again more proof that japanese is a language descendant from korea. Those people in northern korea weren't japonic speakers or ethnic group they're descendants of gojoseon and various siberian people.
First, the history of Baekje is compiled in the Nihon Shoki.
The ruling class of Baekje (Buyeo) naturalized and became Japanese, so they have no relation to modern Koreans.
Please study some history books again.
This is also written in the Nihon Shoki and the Song Book of China.
Furthermore, when comparing the current Korean genome with the Japanese genome, the Japanese have a higher proportion of northern Amur ethnic groups, while the Koreans have a mixture of DNA from the Han people of the Yellow River.
The Yayoi people who came to the Japanese archipelago are a Tungusic people from the Siberian coast, while the Koreans are a people who came from the Yellow River.
The ancestors of Japanese people are 70% Buyeo people from Manchuria, 20% Yayoi people who came from the Korean Peninsula, and 10% Jomon people.
Therefore, it is physically impossible for Korean ancestors to become Japanese.
This is because Japanese and Mongolians have a higher proportion of northern Amur ancestry.
@@JIRO-FX3150 yep more delusions.
Majority of Koreans belongs to DNA paternal O2
No, Korean and tungusic don't have similar genes.
@@9wyshsiwj Koreans were DNA O, while Tungusic DNA paternal C
how about a history on the indo-aryan and indo-iranian languages next?
Uralic languages next please!
삼국 시대 구간 보빈 파트에 가야 영역을 따로 비워두셨는데 보빈이 가야를 일본어족으로 보는 건가요, 아니면 가야가 한국어족인지 일본어족인지 현재로서 알 수 없어서 비워두신건가요?
보빈은 가야어를 일본어족으로 비정하고 있습니다. 제 일본어족 영상도 참조해 주세요.
@@TheDragonHistorian 댓글 달아두고 혹시나싶어 일본어족 영상 찾아봐서 의문이 해소됐었는데 모르고 질문을 계속 남겨뒀었군요... 그래도 답변 감사드립니다 :)
*Origin of Korean Language and the reason why K and J languages are different*
To understand origin of Korean language, we need to study history, archeology, science (DNA analysis), etc collectively. First, I’ll briefly explain the history of Korean ethnic, then try to explain why Korean and Japanese have different basic vocabularies while having almost identical grammar.
*Historical Background*
The Earth's most recent ice age started about 110,000 years ago and ended around 9000 BC. At this time, the sea level was 100 meters lower than now, and the Korean Peninsula, Japan, the Yellow Sea, and Indonesia were connected as one land. This huge land is called Sundaland. Scholars speculate that this Southeast Asian Sundaland may have been the starting point of East Asian civilizations.
In the case of East Asian Y-DNA, it was already mutated from NO to N, O2, O1, O1a, O1b1, O1b2, etc. from 30,000 years ago, during the Ice Age. The tribes could be viewed as being of the same genetic group. Each of these gene groups walked through Sundaland and moved to various places such as East Asia, Southeast Asia, and Siberia to settle there. The gene that arrived on the Korean Peninsula about 20,000 years ago was O1b2.
As the Ice Age ended 10,000 years ago and the Neolithic Age began, sea levels rose due to the melting glacier and the Yellow Sea was created, and O1b2 was isolated on the Korean Peninsula. This theory is supported by recently excavated bones from Gadeokdo(가덕도, 加德島) in South Korea. They turned out to be 7000 years old, and were found to be O1b2. This Y-DNA was only in Korean peninsula, then later spread to Japan and Manchus.
Around 2000 BC, O1b2a2a and O1b2a1 were mutated from O1b2 in south-eastern part of Korea. Around 1000 BC, for some reason a part of the O1b2a1 group migrated to Japan (first Yayoi migration), where the population increased over hundreds of years.
Around 200 BC, lots of Dongyi people from the north (Gojoseon, O2) migrated to southern part of K peninsula and founded a nation (Mahan). [Evidence: According to [後漢書], “King Jun of Joseon(Gojoseon) was defeated by Weiman, and led the remaining thousands of people through the sea, attacked Mahan, defeated Mahan, and established himself as the king of Han(韓).” According to [三國志], “With every dawn, many refugees flowed into Mahan's homeland, and Mahan was founded.”]
Then, Qin migrants (O2) arrived in K peninsula and found a nation (Jinhan). [Evidence: According to [魏書 東夷傳, 後漢書], “Jinhan (辰韓) people were refugees from Qin (秦) to avoid hard labor, and Mahan allocated the eastern border (Jinhan).” According to [三國遺事], “辰韓(Jinhan) is also called 秦韓.”] According to a history book 繋年, Qin people were also Dongyi who were descendants of Shang.
Those migrated Dongyi (O2) mixed with the natives (O1b2). From that time, many peoples O1b2 + O2 of K peninsula have begun to migrate to Japan (second Yayoi migration) until 660 AD when Baekjae was destroyed.
Then, after AD, another northern Dongyi (Buyeo, O2 + C2) arrived in K peninsula and founded Goguryo and Baekje. [Evidence: According to [魏書 東夷傳], “Goguryeo was an another kind of Buyeo.” According to [後漢書], “Baekje was an another kind of Buyeo.”]
That’s why modern Koreans have O2(45%, Dongyi migrants from the north), O1b2(35% ~ 40%, natives), C(13% ~ 20%, migrants from the north).
However, in Japan, the first Yayoi migrants were O1b2 and the second Yayoi migrants were (O1b2 + O2) (both from K peninsula). Thus, O1b2 population is two times higher than O2 (O2 arrived late on the K Peninsula). Yayoi migrants mixed with Jomon and became today’s Japanese.
*If Yayoi were migrants from K to J, why their basic vocabs are totally different?*
There is a big mystery that Korean and Japanese have almost identical grammar, but their basic vocabulary is completely different. In my opinion, this is because modern Japanese language was the language from the first Yayoi migrants (O1b2) from K peninsula around 1000 BC. As I mentioned above, many people from the north migrated to southern part of K peninsula and founded nations (Mahan and Jinhan) around 200 BC and they rapidly replaced most of major vocabs of the natives which is called *Founder Effect* while the grammar of the natives was maintained.
Even though these new Koreans (natives + northern Dongyi) also migrated to J (second Yayoi migration), they could not overwhelm the population and language of the existing Yayoi group.
Interesting fact about Korean language is that many of pure Korean words have the same sound as ancient Dongyi words (上古音). This might be the evidence that Dongyi migrators (Gojoseon, Qin) rapidly replaced vocabs of the natives. There are three possibilities: these Korean words were influenced by Gojoseon or Qin or Buyeo.
*1. First possibility (Gojoseon)*
According to a Chinese source, a descendant from a royal family of Shang dynasty migrated with 5000 people and founded Gojoseon. Later, Gojoseon people founded Mahan. That’s why many ancient sound of Shang words exist in Korean language.
*2. Second possibility (Qin)*
上古音 normally refers to the Hanja sound from late Shang dynasty to Qin dynasty. Qin migrants established Jinhan and the descendants of Jinhan (Silla) unified K peninsula. Therefore, the similarity between the sound of Korean words and 上古音 is most likely due to the influence of the vocabulary of the Qin.
*3. Third possibility (Buyeo)*
The ruling class of Goguryo and Baekje were from Buyeo and Buyeo were descendants of Shang as mentioned above. Therefore, there is possibility that Buyeo words might have contributed to Korean words. However, it is less likely than the above two scenarios because Silla unified K peninsula.
In my opinion, the second scenario is most likely. According to [魏書 東夷傳, 後漢書], “the elder people in Jinhan claimed themselves being refuges of Qin and some people speak Qin language (辰韓, 耆老自言秦之亡人, 避苦役, 適韓國, 馬韓割東界地與之. 其名國爲邦, 弓爲弧, 賊爲寇, 行酒爲行觴, 相呼爲徒, 有似秦語, 故或名之爲秦韓)” However, Qin was also descendants of Shang according to 繋年. Thus, all these three possibilities might've had an overall effect.
Note: The famous Chinese archaeologist 蘇秉琦 asserted, “The ancestors of Shang range from Yan Mountain (Hebei) in the south to 白山黑水 (whole area of Manchu) in the north.” And the famous Chinese historian 傅斯年 asserted, “Shang dynasty came from the northeast and prospered, and when Shang collapsed, they went back to the northeast.” Chinese academia also admit that these views of 蘇秉琦and 傅斯年 are the most accurate.
Many J people claim that Japanese language originated from Goguryo or Buyeo based on some few words such as numbers, but it cannot be the evidence at all. They might have adopted Goguryo numbers just as Koreans adopted Chinese numbers. According to their history book [日本書紀], the language of Baekje and the language of Japan were different, so an interpreter was needed. If Japanese originated from Buyeo, there should be no problem in communication between Baekje and Japan.
The following are examples of similarity between the sound of Korean words and Hanzi 上古音(ancient sound from late Shang dynasty to Qin dynasty):
時(time): 上古音: juk, Chinese: shi, Korean: juk(적)~할적에
矢(arrow): 上古音: ser/sier, Chinese: shi, Korean: ser(살)
王(king): 上古音: gan/gian, Chinese: wang, Korean: gan(간)
風(wind): 上古音: plum/pilum, Chinese: feng, Korean: palam(바람)
律(law,tune): 上古音: blut, Chinese: lu, Korean: blu(브르)부르다
白(white,bright): 上古音: bark/berk, Chinese: bai, Korean: bark(밝)밝다
鳥(bird): 上古音: terg, Chinese: niao, Korean: targ(닭)
熊(bear): 上古音: gom/giom, Chinese: xiong, Korean: gom(곰)
狗(dog): 上古音: kag, Chinese: gou, Korean: ka(개)
禾(rice plant): 上古音: sag, Chinese: he, Korean: sag(삭)싹
河(river): 上古音: gar, Chinese: he, Korean: gar(가람)
其(that): 上古音: keg, Chinese: ji, qi, Korean: keg(거그)/ke(그)
爾(you): 上古音: ner/nar, Chinese: er/ni, Korean: ner(너)
我(me): 上古音: nag, Chinese: wo, Korean: nag(나ㅎ)
他(different person): 上古音: tar, Chinese: ta, Korean: tar(다라)다르다
日(day): 上古音: ner, Chinese: ri, Korean: nar(날)
歲(year, age): 上古音: sar/ser, Chinese: sui, Korean: sar(살)/ser(설)
曰(say): 上古音: gat/get, Chinese: yue, Korean: gar(가라)가라사되,가로되
石(stone): 上古音: diag/zyak, Chinese: shi, Korean: dog(독)/zyak(작)독/자갈
竹(bamboo): 上古音: tag/teg, Chinese: zhu, Korean: tae(대)
布(cloth): 上古音: pag/peg, Chinese: bu, Korean: pae(뵈)
墨(black,ink): 上古音: kemek, Chinese: mo, Korean: kemek(거믁)
氏(family name): 上古音: karar/kerer, Chinese: shi, Korean: kere(겨레)
刃(blade): 上古音: ner/nir, Chinese: ren, Korean: nar(날)
來(come,crop): 上古音: milig, Chinese: lai, Korean: mil(밀)
八(eight,open): 上古音: per/par, Chinese: ba, Korean: per(벌)벌어지다
冠(crown,cap): 上古音: kad, Chinese: guan, Korean: kad(갇)
切(cut): 上古音: char/cher, Chinese: qie, Korean: char(잘)자르다
消(eliminate): 上古音: sag/seg, Chinese: xiao, Korean: sag(삭)
歸(return): 上古音: ked/kad, Chinese: gui, Korean: ked(걷)/ka(가)
割(cut): 上古音: kar, Chinese: ge, Korean: kar(가라)
使(tell to do): 上古音: seg/sig, Chinese: shi, Korean: sig(시기)시키다
寤(awake): 上古音: gag, Chinese: wu, Korean: ga(개)날이개다
址(site): 上古音: teg, Chinese: zhi, Korean: teh(터)
執(hold on): 上古音: chap/chep, Chinese: zhi, Korean: chap(잡)잡다
馬(horse): 上古音: mer, Chinese: ma, Korean: mar(말)
幾(few,almost): 上古音: kiz/kez, Chinese: ji, Korean: kez(거즤),거의
廢(waste): 上古音: par/per, Chinese: fei, Korean: per(버리)버리다
戈(dagger): 上古音: kar, Chinese: ge, Korean: kar(칼)
折(fold,break): 上古音: jar/jer, Chinese: zhe, Korean: jar(자르)자르다
拾(pickup): 上古音: jup/jip, Chinese: shi, Korean: jup(줍)/jip(집)줍다
授(give): 上古音: jug, Chinese: shou, Korean: ju(주-)주다
捎(take out): 上古音: sog, Chinese: shao, Korean: sog(솎)솎아내다
烰(steam,fry): 上古音: bog, Chinese: fu, Korean: bog(볶)볶다
馳(run fast): 上古音: dar/dad, Chinese: chi, Korean: dar(달-)달리다
界(boundary): 上古音: kar, Chinese: jie, Korean: kar(가르)가르다
睡(sleep): 上古音: jar, Chinese: shui, Korean: jar(잘-)자다
那(that,nation): 上古音: nar, Chinese: na, Korean: nara(나라)
置(put,place): 上古音: tug/tig, Chinese: zhi, Korean: tu(두-)
自(self): 上古音: jer, Chinese: zi, Korean: jer(절),절로
話(words,talk): 上古音: gar, Chinese: hua, Korean: gar(가르)가로되
(번역) 한국어의 기원을 알기 위해서는 역사, 고고학, 과학 (DNA 분석) 등을 종합적으로 살펴볼 필요가 있습니다. 먼저 한국인의 기원에 대해 간단히 소개한 이후, 한국어와 일본어가 문법은 거의 일치함에도 불구하고 기본 어휘가 완전히 다른 이유에 대해 설명하겠습니다.
우선, 지구의 가장 최근 빙하기는 약 11만년전에 시작되어 기원전 9000년 경에 끝나게 되는데, 이 방하기 때에는 지금보다 해수면이 100미터 낮아 한반도, 일본, 서해, 인도네시아가 하나로 연결된 육지였으며 이 거대한 육지를 순다랜드 라고 부르며, 이 동남아시아 순다랜드가 동아시아인의 문명 출발점이었을 것으로 학자들은 추측합니다.
동아시아인 Y-DNA의 경우 이미 빙하시대인 3만년 전에 NO 에서 N, O2, O1, O1a, O1b1, O1b2 등으로 분화가 되는데, 그때는 인구가 아주 적었고 한 부족이 수명에서 수십명 밖에 되지 않았기 때문에 한 부족은 동일 유전자 집단이었다고 볼 수 있었습니다. 이 각각의 유전자 집단이 순다랜드를 걸어서 동아시아, 동남아시아, 시베리아 등의 다양한 곳으로 이동하여 정착을 하게 되며 한반도에 약 2만년 전에 도착한 유전자가 O1b2 입니다.
1만년 전에 빙하기가 끝나고 신석기 시대가 시작되면서 녹은 빙하 때문에 해수면이 상승하여 서해가 생겨나면서 O1b2 가 한반도에 고립되었으며 이는 얼마전 가덕도에서 발굴된 유골의 Y-DNA 가 신석기 시대인 7000년 전의 유골이며 Y-DNA 가 O1b2 였음이 밝혀지면서 더욱 분명해졌습니다. 이후 이 Y-DNA 는 일본과 만주지역으로 퍼지게 됩니다.
한반도 토착민 유전자 O1b2 는 기원전 1000년 경에 일본이주를 시작했으며(1차 야요이 이동), 요하지역 및 산동에서 고대 동이족(O2 계열의 고조선 유민, 진나라 유민, 북부여 유민)이 선진문명을 갖고 대규모로 이주해와 나라를(삼한)을 세우면서 토착민 O1b2와 섞여 한민족이 탄생했으며, 이 한민족이 다시 삼한시대에서 삼국시대를 거쳐 일본으로 이주하면서(2차 야요이 이동) 현대 일본인이 탄생하였습니다.
기원전 2000년경 한반도 동남부에서 한반도 토착민 유전자 O1b2 로부터 O1b2a2a 와 O1b2a1 변이가 발생하였으며, 기원전 1000년경 O1b2a1 의 일부가 일본으로 이주하게 되며 (1차 야요이 이동) 수백년에 걸쳐 일본에서 수가 늘어납니다.
그 후, 기원전 200년경 북쪽에서 동이족(고조선 유민, O2)이 대거 남하하여 마한을 세우게 됩니다. [역사적 근거 - [후한서]: “조선왕 ‘준’이 ‘위만’에게 깨져 이에 장수와 남은 무리 수천을 이끌고 바다로 들어가 도망하여, 마한을 공격하고 이를 깨뜨린 후 스스로 ‘한왕(韓王)’에 올랐다” [삼국지]: “많은 유민들이 마한의 고토로 흘러들어 마한이 세워지게 되었다”].
이후, 진나라 유민에 한반도에 도착하여 진한을 세우게 됩니다. [역사적 근거 - [삼국지][후한서]: “진한(辰韓)은, 그 늙은이가 스스로 말하기를 진(秦)의 망명인으로, 고된 역을 피하여 한국(韓國)에 오자 마한이 동쪽 경계를 떼어 주었다고 한다. 그 언어는 마한과 같지 않았다. 그들의 언어는 진(秦)나라 언어와 비슷하였다” [삼국유사]: “진한(辰韓)은 (중국 진나라 진(秦)을 써서) 진한(秦韓)이라고 부르는 자가 있다”]
이때부터 한국인은 고조선 등에서 이주해온 동이족(O2)과 한반도 토착민(O1b2)이 결합한 민족이 되었으며, 이들(O2 + O1b2)의 많은 수가 기원후 660년 백제가 멸망할 때까지 일본으로 이주하게 됩니다 (2차 야요이 이동).
기원후에는 또다른 동이족인 부여(O2 + C2) 민족이 남하여 고구려와 백제를 건국하게 됩니다. [역사적 근거 - [삼국지]: “고구려는 부여의 별종이다”, [후한서]: “백제는 부여의 별종이다”]
따라서, 오늘날의 한국인은 다음과 같은 Y-DNA 분포를 갖게 되었습니다: O2(43% ~ 45%, 북방에서 남하한 동이족), O1b2(35% ~ 40%, 한반도 토착민), C2(13% ~ 20%, 몽골계 북방족).
하지만, 일본의 경우 1차 야요이 이주민은 한반도 토착민인 O1b2 였으며 2차 야이요 이주민은 동이족과 토착민의 결합으로 형성된 한민족인 O1b2 + O2 였습니다. 이것이 일본의 경우 O1b2 가 O2 보다 두 배 더 많은 이유입니다. 야요이 이주민이 일본의 토착민이었던 조몬인과 결합하여 오늘날의 일본인이 형성되었습니다.
한국어와 일본어는 문법은 거의 같지만 기본 어휘는 완전히 다르다는 미스테리가 있습니다. 제 생각에는 현대 일본어가 기원전 1000년경 한반도에서 처음으로 이주한 야요이(O1b2)의 언어였기 때문이라고 생각합니다. 앞서 언급한 바와 같이 BC 200년경 북방에서 많은 사람들이 남하하여 나라(마한과 진한)을 세웠고, 이들은 Founder Effect 에 의해 토착민의 주요 어휘를 빠르게 대체했지만 토착어의 문법은 유지가 되는 현상을 겪었기 때문으로 추정됩니다.
오늘날의 한국어의 경우 아주 특이한 점이 발견되는데, 순수 한국어 어휘의 상당수가 고대 요하지역 동이족의 어휘였던 한자 상고음의 발음과 거의 완벽히 일치하는 경우가 많습니다. 이에 대해 세가지 해석이 가능합니다.
1. 고조선 어휘의 영향
중국측 자료에 의하면 요하지역 동이족이 중국 중원으로 남하하여 세운 상나라가 패망한 직후 그 왕족이 유민을 이끌고 동북으로 이동하여 고조선을 세웠으며 그 고조선이 위만조선에 패망한 후 남하하여 마한을 세웠기 때문에 한국어에 상나라 어휘의 상당수가 존재한다는 설명.
2. 부여 어휘의 영향
부여족이 남하하여 고구려와 백제를 세웠기 때문에 부여어의 영향이라는 설명. 하지만, 부여 또한 고조선과 동일한 예맥족이었음.
3. 진나라 어휘의 영향
한자 상고음이란 상나라 후기 때부터 진나라 시대까지의 한자음, 특히 진나라 시대의 한자음이며, 위에서 설명했듯 진나라 유민이 세운 진한의 후예 신라가 삼국을 통일하였기 때문에 진나라 어휘의 영향이라는 설명.
계년(繋年)에 의하면 주나라 성왕이 상나라 유민의 반란을 진압한 뒤 지금의 산동성 상개(商盖)의 주민을 서부 간쑤성으로 이주시켰는데, 이들이 바로 진나라의 조상이 됐다고 밝히고 있으므로, 진나라인들 또한 요하에서 남하한 동이족이었음. 따라서, 위 세가지 경우가 복합적으로 작용하여 한국어 어휘에 영향을 끼쳤다고 볼 수 있습니다.
많은 일본인들은 숫자 등 일부 어휘를 근거로 일본어는 고구려어 또는 부여어에서 기원하였다고 주장하나 이는 전혀 근거가 될 수 없습니다. 우리가 중국식 숫자를 도입했듯 일본은 고구려 숫자를 도입했을 뿐입니다. 그들의 역사서 [일본서기] 에 의하면, 백제어와 일본어가 달라 통역가가 필요했다고 밝히고 있습니다. 일본어가 부여어에서 기원했다면 백제어와 일본어은 의사소통에 문제가 없었어야 합니다. 일본인들이 한반도가 아닌 북방에서 자신들의 기원을 찾으려는 시도는 첫째, 자신들이 한반도에서 유래했다는 것을 싫어하며 둘째, 대륙 진출에 대한 야욕이 그들의 마음속에 자리잡고 있기 때문입니다.
The Sundaland theory is one of the most stupidest theory I've read.
The most recent theory regarding the origin of East Eurasian race with strong evidence is in Mainland Southeast Asia starting from Himalaya.
@@alimybad You might be right. The point is that O1b2 arrived in Korean peninsula at least far before 7000 years ago (based on recent excavation of bone in South Korea), then O2 arrived in Korean peninsula much later. O1b2 was found only in Korean peninsula, then later they moved to Japan and Manchuria.
A new study in 2021 now found that modern Japanese have 70% of their autosomal DNA traced back to the Yellow River basin where it shows the highest affinity (the Kofun migration), yet Japan’s haplogroup group O2 percentage is much lower than Koreans. What do you make of this recent revelation?
침미다례로 불리는 영산강마한세력(일본식 전방후원분 발견되서 논란되는 그 지역)은 기원후 400~500년 백제하고 싸우던 시점에서 고대일본어족이였는지 고대 한국어족이였는지?
Man that Korean Scholar was ADAMANT that koreans were in korea from 8500 bce and they did not share a root with the japanese
DNA from ancient human bones has revealed that the indigenous people of the southern part of the Korean Peninsula were the Jomon people of the Japanese archipelago.
I seen most of author follow Vovin about Goguryeo origins. Robbeets seem out of the story ...
However, Goguryeo can mean because of it's indecisive position mean korean and japonic can be in a proto family.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classification_of_the_Japonic_languages
Robbeets have more accurate Unheirmait for both Japonic and Korean Unheirmait who are in Liaodong region pretty accurate with their genetic profile.
So out of all the ethnic groups, which one are the Koreans most related to/possibly descended from or was the ancestor of? Yeneseian? Sinitic? Japonic? Tungusic? Mongolic? Austroasiatic? Austronesian? or Kra-Dai?
Japonic
Not directly descended or being ancestor, but related to Japanese and Jurchen(loandwords from Korean)
Japanese and Manchurian
Japonic
@@Amnok how about Yeneseic? Since the Kingdom of Hwan, the ancestors to Old Choseon, originate from 사백력, or Lake Baikal, as the Proto-Yeneseians!?
As usual, the most accurate is certainly the closest to what ancient historians wrote.
이 영상을 보고 너무 슬퍼지네요. 항상 느끼는 것이지만 우리 역사를 우리 관점에서 보지 못하니 외국인들 또한 우리 역사에 대한 이해가 너무 없는 거 같습니다. 아무튼 영상 잘 보고 갑니다.
로비츠는 모르겠는데 오른쪽 알렉산더 보빈은 이해도 엄청 높을걸요? 한국어와 일본어 언어 연구의 권위자고 한국어랑 일본어도 잘하신다네요 논문보면 삼국사기 같은 사서들이나 우리나라 향가에 대해서 연구한것도 있다고 합니다 그리고 로비츠는 역사보다는 고고학을 바탕으로 연구한거라고 합니다
@@kimx5 님 말씀이 정확하게 보빈이 제기하는 바와 똑같습니다. '알타이제어 가설이 죽지도 않고' 자꾸 살아돌아온다고 보빈 스스로도 굉장히 답답해해요.
@@greathistorymapper 로비츠도 막스플랑크소속의 이번 트랜스유라시아어 관련 논문 수석연구원을 맡았을정도로 권위자입니다.
@Lingua-qv6ym뭔 개소리야 일찍 진입한가설에 이의제기하는건데
@Lingua-qv6ymㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ ㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ
Robbeets's hypothesis is more likely.
Becase Jin -> Silla, Baekje(commoner) -> United Silla -> Goryeo -> Modern Korean
Otherwise Joseon -> Goguryeo -> Baekje(noble) -> Ancient Japanese
Nope. Vovin's hypothesis is much more likely. Vovin and Whitman are more famous linguists than Robbeets. Most of modern linguists have focused on Vovin's hypothesis.
What a shit comment with such little understanding of History;
I like both but it is just that that peninsula
I think japanese is ausronesian , and korean is north asian , when japanese came to jeosen island met korean , and they were mixed
Japan is not Austronesian
They came from china then went to Japan
@@cocaineminor4420Japanese people are Ural-Altaic
Approximately 70% of Japanese people have DNA from northern systems such as the Yellow River and Liao River systems, the remaining 20% are from southern China, and the remaining 10% are from the Jomon system.
Koreans have more southern DNA than Japanese people.
However, there are exceptions, and the Okinawans and Ainu people are of southern descent.
It has a lot of DNA.
Japanese aren't Austronesian
잘봤습니다~
Yeah new subscribers 😤
로비츠껀 걍 썰 수준인데
Now they have North and South Korean accents 😂😂😂
티벳어와도 동일한 단어가 있는 경우도 있고, 부도지에서는 천산산맥에서 출발했음을 기술하고 있음
티베트어는 중국티베트어족에 속하는 언어라서 한국어와는 완전 별개의 언어입니다
I thought Korean has the whole universes
No that's the Chinese
The left is absolutely fringe
(한국어 배우러 온 한국인)
interesting new korean romanization. now i can pronounce them more accurately as they were intended without knowing any korean at all
The root of Korean language is Silla language.
The Manchu language is rooted in the Buyeo language.
According to Chinese records, the Baekje and Silla peoples speak different languages.
According to Japanese record 續日本紀 Goguryeo and Silla people didn't need interpreter.
백제의 구구단표가 나왔는데 명백하게 한국어였다. 만주족은 말갈로 Jurchen이며 언어가 다르다고 기록이 분명하게 나와있다.
@@알리오-o8w That's a theory that completely ignores linguistics.
The way Baekje is pronounced is completely different.
Baekje in Buyeo is cun-nala
Baekje in Goryeo (Korean) is pec-jye
Baekje in Japanese is kudara
The ruling class of beakje spoke Korean stop that.
부여를 왜 중국어 병음으로 표기해놨는지? 부여는 한국의 역사입니다.
부여의 중국어 병음은 Fuyu이고 본 영상에서 사용한 Puyo는 한국어 "부여"를 매큔-라인샤워 표기법으로 쓴 것입니다.
@@PaektuMountain 국제적인 언어, 역사학계는 아직도 매큔-라인샤워 표기법을 선호합니다. 보통 고유명사는 매큔-라인샤워 표기법으로, 기타 어휘는 예일 표기법으로 씁니다. (낱말이 아닌 한 문장을 표기하는 경우, 고유명사가 들어갔더라도 예일법이 사용됩니다.)
이 영상을 만들때 참조한 논문 및 각종 자료들도 전부 매큔-라인샤워 표기법을 사용했고, 영상을 만들때 저도 그 관습을 따랐습니다. 이 영상에서는 고구려어를 Koguryŏ, 백제어를 Paekche 등으로 표기했고, Puyŏ도 마찬가지일 뿐입니다.
저게 국제적 기준입니다. 중국어로는 Fuyu 라고 합니다.
I'm Korean, and I watched this video with great interest, and I'm about to object to writing East Sea on the map.The sea is strictly called East Sea. It is by no means Sea of Japan. I want this video corrected. Many people want to know that Sea of Japan is an incorrect name.
Actually, it is not Yellow Sea, it's West Sea. Rgds.
In English it's called the Sea of Japan
lol
고대 백제어가 고대 일본어랑 좀 비슷하니까 왼쪽 신라어가 현대 한국어 기원설이 좀더 맞는거같네
전혀...
@-- 알렉산더 보빈은 백제어도 한국어라고 했음.
@@KrMorgan12 한국어라기보단 한국어족이 맞는 말일걸
백제 신라 가야 모두 일본어 기층이 었는데 부여족이 남하해 이들을 지배 하면서
언어가 부여어 화 한것 같고 일본어는 반도남부 기층언어가 부여어 에게 침탈 당하기 전에
일본 열도로 이주한 사람들 같음
All are fringe theories
!
The predecessor of Germany, the Germanic region, also claimed to be the Holy Roman Empire, just as the regimes of the peninsula misappropriated the name card of Goryeo（Korea\Goguryeo). In fact, this situation is also very common in ethnic minority regimes in Chinese history. Han, Jin, Zhou, and Wei were all taken as country names by barbarians. One thing is that since Goguryeo was overthrown and the southern indigenous state of Silla achieved victory, it is reasonable to say that the indigenous language in the southern part of the peninsula should became the mainstream. And Goguryeo has already perished, how can Goguryeo language eventually assimilate into the southern part of the peninsula? So we should believe that the languages of the indigenous people in the southern peninsula are the main ancestors of Korean language today.
Combining some vocabulary similar to Japanese pronunciation left over from the historical materials of Goguryeo, it can only lead to one conclusion: Goguryeo Buyeo people and the royal family of Baekje speak another language that is close to Japanese, while the indigenous people in the southern part of the peninsula such as Silla and Baekje are the ones who speak Samhan languages. The languages of Samhan(three hans) is the predecessor of Korean. After the fall of Goguryeo, the colonizers of Baekje fled to the Japanese archipelago, and the Fuyu speaking population of Goguryeo was splited everywhere in northeast Asia, which ultimately gave the opportunity for Samhan languages to unify the peninsula.
caonimagebi shabi
보통 민무늬토기를 도래계집단으로 비정하는데 로비츠가 무슨생각으로 고구려를 일본계언어로 비정했지? 내가 국뽕과 한국인인것을 떠나서 이해가 안감
일본학계의 로비. 보빈설이 정설이 되면, 텐노가계의 순수성이 사라짐. 그리고, 호남 마한학계도 반대함. 같은 민족이라서, 거짓말을 잘함.
잘못된 고고학을 근거로 비정했으니까요. 로베이츠의 논문은 이미 2022년 1월에 일본쪽에서 반박 논문 나왔습니다. 요즘 부여계 민족이 일본을 건국했다는 기마민족설은 일본 주류 언어학계와 고고학계에선 부정되는 추세입니다. 다만 일본 학자들이 고구려어를 한국어족으로 보는 것도 아니고 퉁구스어화된 고아시아 민족의 언어라고 보는게 일반적. 국제 언어학계에선 일단 고구려어는 한국어족으로 보는게 일반적인 견해입니다. 이기문과 로버트 램지의 저서의 영향이 컸음.
@@sega23date 일본은 왜이리 한국(조선)을 고구려랑 분리시키려함? ㅋㅋ.
몽골(고려왕이 힝복했을 때), 명(임진왜란때), 청(인조 대가리 박을때)도 일련적으로 쭉 고구려 후손으로 인지한 발언들을 하고있는데. ㅋㅋ.
@@KrMorgan12 그논리대로라면 파키스탄 칼라쉬족은 그리스인임
The way Baekje is pronounced is completely different.
Baekje in Buyeo is cun-nala
Baekje in Goryeo (Korean) is pec-jye
Baekje in Japanese is kudara
高句丽和韩国没有关系，韩国人来自朝鲜半岛南部，祖先是新罗和百济
Chinese fantasy🤣😂
@@primarch02 South Korean fantasy🤣🤣🤣
@@lx6461 Zhou en lai apologized to north korea for some crazy chinese like you. If you want the evidence give me your address.
@@lx6461 And Qin Tang Sui Wu Yue Qing are not chinese. you were enslaved by them.
애초에 백제랑 고구려는 같은 부여계인데..? 😅😅
Proto turkic
Great video man! Do you have discord?