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Loading 1860 Pietta - Part 5 - Conclusions, Pro's & Con's
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- Опубліковано 18 січ 2024
- From the shooting tests, and past experiences, my current ideas about how three common loading methods compare. Hopefully this will give beginning as well as experienced shooters some information that they might find useful. No absolutes claimed here, and my ideas may well change on some points discussed here. I encourage shooters and those interested to view the three videos in this series: parts 2,3,&4.
Thanks again for your research and videos. You are the Cecil B DeMille of black powder revolver videos!
Happy to hear you find them interesting. Sometimes I’m reluctant to do them because I feel like they may be somewhat boring. Words like yours are inspiring. Thanks. O.R.
I think the outright winner of these 3 systems has to be the lube over ball, however! The one critical element is the quality of the lube, there is little point in a dob of lube that is too soft as the first shot will blow it all away, so your special formula is essential, I also think the reduced velocity we get when using wads must be due to the lesser compression of the powder, or the larger volume of space it is burning in. As for chain fires, I cannot see that this would occur if a correct diameter ball or projectile is used, then again, does it make any difference if the chamber throat is chamfered? A chamfered throat would tend to give a tighter fitting ball as the outer circumference would tend to be "squeezed" in rather than sheared off giving a tighter fit, but I suppose we could measure that by pushing a ball into an unchamfered chamber, pushing it back out, then chamfering the same chamber and measuring again with balls from the same batch. Stay warm! Chris B.
Thanks Chris. They’re forecasting a warmer spell. I got after the video editing because of the cold snap which is expected in January here. I have what I believe is some interesting stuff that I noticed when shooting walkers that had three different twists. May get around to putting that together. When doing the wad testing the 5th group was shot with only the paper disk and showed the approximate same slower speeds, , but, I had pushed in wads and then removed them. This was to see if it was the lube on the sides of the chambers causing it, which doing that seemed to back up, but really need more testing when summer comes. Thanks as always for your ideas and comments. O.R.
Many of your results gave me a reason to re-evaluate what I've been doing. I was particularly surprised at the way wads were affecting velocity. I also found, like you did, that lubes that are too stiff tend to be blown out of the barrel without any benefit. A lot of my percussion pistol use is at Cowboy Shoots where I'm concerned about reliable functioning during the course of a Match. Looking forward to more of your percussion pistol experiments and will be doing some of the same
Having done some Cowboy shoots (cartridge only) I understand the need for reliability and ease of loading over accuracy. If I were to compete I would go with the wad loading. Dry would be accurate enough, but I’d be concerned with the number of stages and the progressive difficulties in loading cylinders. I’m sure however there can be found ways around that. You may have seen the results I got in the video where I slid wads in and then removed them and then loaded the ball. I thought those results were interesting concerning speeds. Be interested to find out what you come up with. Thanks for your comments. O.R.
I use waxed cardboard disk over the powder and over the wad. Keeps the powder from the lube and the wad from sticking to the bullets. I do this in my BP cartridges also.
Probably the best string of videos I've watched on this subject matter. Very much appreciate the info Old Ranger. Most of all thank you for your time! Thumbs up ~John
Thanks John. It does take time, but I enjoy it, and it’s helpful to feel that it’s interesting to some folks and hopefully useful also. O.R.
I continue to follow the tests with interest. As I am not going to be doing my own wads or lube, it would be good to see tests with commercial offerings of both. I have had a lot of fun but not great groups. Also it would be good to see 777 and Pyrodex Tested, I am not finding any rust and per a frying pan, I put a lubed patch down the bore when done cleaning. I am also using Carbon Killer 2000 with the above two powders (no BP available). I use an eye dropper to put drizzle of the CK2K on a nylon brush, run it though the bore adding drizzle on the frame end, then a patch, repeat the brush, repeat the patch, add some CK2K on the patch as the patch clears up. Cleans up well. Not as clean as your lube but not bad.
I assume then you are using 777 and (or) pyrodex? How about wads, lube or dry, what are you doing in that arena ? I have used some 777 with decent results, using lube, but not quite as good as the original black. Another question, have you seen video of how I go about cleaning the guns, (thats assuming I have posted one, can’t remember)? Good idea for me to see how commercially sold lube and wads do. Being sort of cheap (plus I admit to sort of enjoy the making), I have not got into commercial, buy lots of shooters go that way and would like to see how things compare. Thanks for the ideas and your comment. O.R.
A very good series of videos with a lot of good information Thank you.
Great informative videos,I think you covered everything.Goex powder is available at Midway USA.Thank you again for these wonderful videos.
Thanks for sharing the info on GOEX. O.R.
Good work. I’ll watch the whole series now.
Very informative! I plan to do some testing of my own when the weather breaks.
Great videos! I’ve learnt so much from your videos! Thank you
Good job,
Hello, about a month ago I stumbled into a pawn shop and saw a beat up original mitched matched numbers colt 1860 ever since than I've been attempting to restore it to firing condition, it has occurred to me that all the parts I try to buy are off of pietta or Uberti clones of 1860 colts this has proven difficult to reliably find parts that effectively work. I am also very conservative of keeping the gun original when I received it the entire gun was original though being the stupid person i am and fiddling with it too much I have broken the main spring and some other parts I have since then gotten replacement parts such as the main spring and the (I know it has a name) but the hook shaped piece with the spring off the back that going into the cut out in the hammer, Aswell as some other parts, vie been searching for someone that's been doing it for a while that knows what to do and how to do it, this is the second video of yours I have seen I'll go back and look through your previous videos but I just wanted to say thanks finding this colt 1860 inspired me to go out and buy a copy of a Springfield stalker and it has been some of the most fun in my life shooting that thing I loaded the colt with 15 grains of Rs pyrodex and just a patch to see if it will set off powder reliably didn't get good results but I think it's because I didn't compact with a ball. yet i just wanted to say people like you are what people like me look for and it's a shame the small number of subscribers you have, also I hope I learn a lot from you have a good day!
Thanks for your encouragement. I try to relate information that is hopefully useful, inspiring, entertaining and possibly correct. That part is referred to as the hand. I love old stuff and English that makes sense; not just three letters that I can’t remember, and stand for something that means nothing. The only worse thing is a bunch of small symbols instead of “off” or “on”. Sorry for the rant, but “hand” is classic because it turns the cylinder. Yup, makes too much sense, probably should be re-named. Thanks again for your comment. O.R.
I just watched your video on the diy caps made me buy the tap o cap I see you as my black powder grandpa 🤣
@@Ronaldmcdonald65 Thanks Grandson. Just curious if you found a used one made by Forester, or new from 22Sharpshooter? Anyway they are a blast to use, just be cautious if you are mixing chemicals because that stuff is potent. Rather not have to hear that something happened to you from someone else. Stay safe. O.R.
I sometimes use grease cookies for easy application over the ball (just thumb them into the chamber mouth). I do wonder, though, if they do actually smear their way along the barrel as I imagine, or just get pushed out by gases getting past the bullet.
I have considered shooting through a paper screen to see if there is anything to learn from the resulting splatter, but not got around to that yet.
Sometimes the lube I use is stiff because of temperature or my mixing proportions. Seems I remember using a butter knife to cover the ball. I also remember finding chunks in or around the target. I agree with the idea that it doesn’t melt and coat the barrel, rather just gets forced out. Seems like a couple times I wondered why my accuracy went South when the lube was stiff, so I’m thinking this is the situation.
You mentioned gas going by the ball. Seems I’ve read, heard, or whatever that the ball “bumps up” to fill groves. Like to hear what you think about that. Seems to me that it would need to be pretty soft because it’s already traveling around 300-400 f/s when it hits the forcing cone, and would need to expand after passing through it. Seems unlikely, but -? As I’ve mentioned in a couple comments that I’m thinking the powder we get today burns differently from the “old” stuff. How a civil war musket could fire and load half dozen without cleaning puzzles me. Maybe they did, I’m not knowledgeable at all here. Only experience I have is firing one several times without cleaning and about the 4th shot had to get a steel rod to pound the bullet down to the powder. Thanks for your comment. O.R.
I wonder if you go with the lube between the powder and ball that a stiffer consistency would be better? Thinking the direct heat from the powder burn would avoid the chunks going down range??
That would be interesting to try. Hard to predict (at least for me) if the heat during the fraction of a second will melt the lube. Guess the only way is to test the theory. Worth doing because it would be a whole less messy, maybe even do a better job of keeping the fouling soft. Thanks. O.R.
It feels to me that:
Lube over ball for the shooting range.
No lube if you need to carry it.
I think that’s sound reasoning and advice. Especially when carrying for defense and long durations. We know what happens in warm temperatures. Defense and most hunting probably won’t require successive loadings. I feel a clean bore will shoot accurately until fouling builds up. Thanks for pointing this out. O.R.
How about paper between the wad and powder? Could the slower speeds be due to contaminated powder or incomplete burn and stuck to wad?
Check out ua-cam.com/video/J3nud2Tm730/v-deo.html which might answer that, if not let me know. O.R.
I ran accross an article written by John L. Fuhring. Don't know the guy, but he advocated a loading technique called "grease behind the slug method". So instead of covering the chambers with grease after loading the ball, you place a small amount of grease on the chamber opening before loading the ball. The grease is therefore under the ball between the ball and whatever type of wad you choose to choose to isolate the grease from the powder. According to the author, this allows the lube to be most effective in actually keeping fouling soft, rather then being blown off the top of the cylinders using the conventional method. I have been curious to try this just to see if it works. Probably requires alot of experimentation to get just the right amount and consistency of lube.
That does sound interesting, thanks. I’ve often thought that something similar to that might be better. It reminds me of what the long range BPCR shooters call a grease cookie. I’d like to try powder, then as you say, the correct amount of the right consistency lube, before the ball (or whatever). Thanks. O.R.
I was going to post the article for you but I guess youtube blocks that. @@oldranger3044
👍🏼
Might be interesting to see what happens when using paper cartridges also.
Right! I understand often they were made by the ladies. Just the right thing for my wife after a long day's work... Anything for her to help her unwind O.R.
Thanks for the videos they are great!@@oldranger3044