SPLITTING BEES | TARANOV Split | Cool!!!
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- Опубліковано 16 жов 2024
- I have been wanting to do a TARANOV Split video for a long times and it has never seemed to work out. Finally I had the opportunity. I was at the farm splitting the bees and I found a hive that seemed to be the perfect candidate. Of course it did not go perfectly but was pretty close. If you are looking for a unique, fun and fairly easy way to split bees you might want to give it a try. If not then I still think you will find the video fun and interesting. It was quite the event!
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#beekeeping #honeybee #taranov
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If any of you try this or have tried it before let me know how it worked out for you!
Re Taranov Split...
Bruce, maybe design a pre-made angled stand at a steeper angle, (aka like a small tree with 45 degree branch.)
The 'faux Swarm' would hang down better ? And use a huge dust sheet below this Ramp ! And another on the ramp. That way, you could keep all the bees in view, against white fabric, and not the ground !!! 😱 Also if you had a massive volume to march into hive bodies, you could traffic manage them by lifting said sheet and guide them safely to where you want them. Just a thought... 😉
Interesting concept you showed today. Something a bit different from the usual walk away split !?! 👍
All good suggestions. Thanks!
Love the comment true bruce fashion. The best laid plans. Well done!
This is the best information I have seen in a long time. Great video.
Thanks!
If bees would only cooperate for you tube lol people don't realize how much harder it is to do stuff when you try to bring em along .Good Video 👍
And it's a lot more time consuming.
Yes for sure!
It definitely takes more time. Could be much more efficient but I love it!
@@brucesbees I was talking about making videos for people being more time consuming I should of said that better. I like that way of splitting very interesting.
@@brucesbees that's all that matters right there! I'm going to run a horizontal this year just for FUN!
Always awesome to learn different methods. I have been watching hrs and hrs of content from everyone hoping to start keeping bees this yr up in north east!! Thanks.
Thanks for watching and good luck!
Do you suppose you could support the ramp with the new hive body? That way when the queen and non-flyers get to the end and go down, they just drop right into their new home.
Great video, by the way. I could watch bees march all day :)
That would be one way to do it. I did what I called a Modified Taranov split a couple of years ago: ua-cam.com/video/D_651nZyUqI/v-deo.html
I see the theory of how this works but I would still rather just find the queen and shake sufficient bees into a new box to make a regular kind of split. Much faster, and a lot less chance of loosing or damaging the queen the way I see it. Besides, the Taranov method seems to leave the queen with mostly non-flying nursing bees since the flying bees will naturally go back to the original hive. You can of course feed the queen split to make up for this, but a natural source of nectar and pollen will beat any artificial substitute, and with queen cells in the original hive I am guessing that you are in a good natural flow right now. All that said it is always interesting to learn about different methods, so thanks for sharing.
All good points and we are just starting our flow. It should all work out. At least I hope so.
I have never heard of this. It totally makes sense and looks like it would work. Thanks for sharing this bruce.
Yeah it’s fun but a little one consuming. Thanks!
Pretty cool to watch the bees climb up. Love your vid6. Always learn something.
Thanks! So do I lol! 🐝🙂
Thanks Bruce. Some interesting aspects to doing this and you get to watch the bees march. How cool is that and you don't have to find the queen. Neither hive will be long without a Q either. Walkaway splits go too long without a queen.
Yes. It has worked well for me in the past. Hopefully this one will work out good as well.
Taranov split is fun but sometimes messy. I ended up with a lot of pollen being shook off bees and frames on the sheet. In some ways I think people use it because they have a difficult time to find the queen. You still have to be careful not to shake a queen cell. Because I'm in an area that any mated queens come back "super mean" I have to delay swarms until I can buy mated queens. I sometimes use a snelgrove board to slow them down 2-3 weeks and build up foragers for the early nectar flow. I sure have enjoyed your videos. Are you planning on making any of those super tall hives you need a ladder. That was fun!
Yes I agree with everything you said above. I have not been able to duplicate Megahive again though I have had some pretty impressive hives since. That thing was a lot of fun a ton of work. I got 315 pounds of honey from it that year. Haven’t come close since then. Average yield in Alabama is 55-60 pounds.
Interesting and a good video to demonstrate the Taranov split. My suggestion would be to use two sheets as another person has suggested. One on top the board as in your video and another under your ramp and spread it to the box you want the bees to go to. It is easier for the bees to walk across the sheet than up and down and over and under every blade of grass.
When I go on a swarm call a sheet is vital part of the swarm collection kit. I lay it down on the ground and set the bottom board and hive body top of it. I have found if you shake the swarm on to the sheet just in front of the hive body and they walk into the hive body on their own (as in your Taranov video, the bees are more apt to stay because they went in their on their own.
Thanks for the tip. I like it!
Yes... I've done them before. Often, if you watch closely, you can see the queen marching up the board. The bees will also tell you where the queen is by clustering around her. Good job!
Yea it’s pretty cool. I didn’t see her but didn’t really look for her either. I’m sure she was somewhere in that cluster of bees. Fun times. Thanks for watching!
Super cool I wonder if you put a drop cloth down under it all so if you drop it you don't have bees in the grass. Super cool method.
Hmm. That’s a good thought. Would be less messy maybe!
How long did it take the "swarm" to make their way into the new box? Interesting method. I may have to keep that in mind.
Not long. Once they form the swarm on the ramp and you bump them off they act like any other swarm.
First time I seen this. Excellent video! How do the bees treat those black nitrile gloves? I've been told not to use black so I was curious. Thanks
I don’t have any issues with them. I will get an occasional sting but I get more through leather gloves. The bees don’t seem to like to sting through the nitrile material for some reason.
Interesting procedure, gosh your bees sure look good. Good luck.
Yes it’s fun. It does take awhile though but have been wanting to do a video like this for awhile. Finally had a perfect opportunity!
That is a cool concept. Thanks!
Yeah it’s fun but not very efficient. I like trying different things.
Bruce, I’ve seen a man do something similar. He sets up a hive body with some drawn comb and a ramp from the ground to the entrance of the new hive body and shakes the bees to the bottom of the ramp from a hive that he thinks will swarm soon. Most Foragers go back and the Queen and nurse bees march up the ramp to the new hive. He said it takes the swarm out of them. Basically it’s like a split where you put a Queen in another box and leave Queen cells or eggs in the old hive. I hope this artificial swarm works for you.
Yes sounds like something very similar. So many ways to do things with bees!
That's pretty nifty!
Yeah it works well. Not super efficient but has been effective in the past. Hopefully this one will work out well too.
So why wouldn’t the queen fly back into the hive? And do you leave a queen cell or more in old colony to hatch a new queen?
Yes in this case I left a queen cell or two in the old colony. I am not sure why the queen and nurse bees do not return to the original colony but I think it is probably because the nurse bees have never left and don’t know how to get back and the queen has forgotten how to get back.
So neat!
Dear Mr Bruce. Are you sure, the Queen larva does survive this rather rough handling of the frames ?
It worked but it is best to handle the frames with cells more gently. Using a bee brush or some grass to brush the bees of that frame would probably be best. Very good observation. Thanks for checking in.
The truth is that I rarely do these type of splits and haven’t done one for a while. There are so many easier and faster ways to make splits. But the Taranov is an effective type of split that snaps the bees into swarm mode and in essence they think they have swarmed if timed and performed properly. And it takes the guesswork out of it because you know the queen will be with the bees that are shaken out.
Thx for trying this...no I know I never will!
I hear ya but I think I have 💯 success rate over the years. I typically don’t do these tough. They are time consuming. Thanks for watching!
I started thinking an "A" frame instead of a ramp so that it wouldn't collapse. But then I watched the other video of using a deep box for the ramp support made more sense. Let the girls march into a box removes a step or two. I can see myself using this method to deal with swarm cells in my long Langstroth hives. 🍯🐝🙏
Yes it works well. It is fun but time consuming. Not efficient if trying to do a lot of splits though.
Would it work if you supported the platform with the brood box and rhe non flying bees woukd just move in that way?
I tried that before but they just seem to hang out on the platform. I called it a modified TARANOV Split. It ended up ok. Just a little different. ua-cam.com/video/D_651nZyUqI/v-deo.html
Hey Bruce, love the video. What keeps the queen from flying back into the old hive? Just curious.
I think that she has been in the hive for so long and is not familiar with how to get back though I am not exactly sure.
The ramp is supposed to be in front of the new box not the old box and the boxes are too close to each other.
The method you mention would probably work and I have used a variation of it with success. But the textbook way, which I was trying to duplicate is described here: www.dave-cushman.net/bee/taranovswm.html
Thanks for checking in!
Did this end up working? I'm needing to do a split soon! :D
Yes. I have done the Taranov split or a version of it several times and it has worked every time as far as I know.
@@brucesbees Thank you! Have you ever tried the two-hive split Layen discusses in Keeping Bees in Horizontal Hives?
And it's hot here- a split may be risky. What are the warmest temps (high for the day) that you've done a split successfully?
I don’t think it really matters. Should be ok. There are actually other type splits I usually do. The Taranov split, though a good method, takes a lot of time. You can look at my Splits playlist to see some of the techniques I use.
Interesting
Thanks great info 👍
Thanks for checking in!
Bruce, I think you can improve on this method of split: if you were to put an empty box with a bottom board and put the ramp to the empty box then the bees would climb the ramp and hang on the empty box.
But this method seems to be time consuming and as J F said you have a chance of loosing or damaging the queen.
Also if it start raining what would happen to the bees and the queen.
All good points. I would probably not do this if it were going to rain. I actually haven’t done one in awhile. But this hive was perfect for it. A couple of years ago I did what I called a Modigied Taranov split. Check it out: ua-cam.com/video/D_651nZyUqI/v-deo.html
If you have the equipment another easy way is to set a full box drawn comb on top let Queen move up and lay. a few days latter pull box off and shake all BEEs down and put excluder and put box back on over it you took off. next day pull the box off over excluder and boom you have a split that also has young BEES because of the Larva/Brood. Doing so you dont have to look for a Queen because you had shaken all to lower box.
Thanks for the info. Stay tuned!
@@brucesbees Take care my Friend. Ohh i will as i enjoy the Vids. Looks like snow for me Monday so today and tomorrow the girls can fly then a couple days of ugghhh. They are doing good tho and have the buckets and patty so this little cold spell i hope wont slow them much. Trees had just started to show signs of spring
Won’t be long for you hopefully.
I haven’t seen this technique. It makes sense. 🍺🍺
Yes it is fun. I have done a few in the past with good success. Hopefully will have good success with this one as well.
I haven't seen this technique before but it does make sense.
Yes it is pretty cool. It works well but is quite time consuming. So it is not something you would want to do if trying to make a bunch of splits at the same time.
They didn’t fill there bely with honey like they would in a natural swarm so I would think you would have to feed them for a little while.
That is a good observation. Flowers are beginning to bloom and it seems we are starting our flow so I think they will be ok.
Try putting your empty box under the end of the plywood. They should just go into the new box right off the underside of the plywood.
Not a bad idea. Thanks for the input!
I like that technique only thing I would like to do is catch the queen first.
Yes that would be a good idea but part of the beauty of the whole thing is that you don’t have to. At times it can be hard to find her amongst all those bees. But yes it is always good if you can fine the queen to catch her.
@@brucesbees but it great you showed it is not necessary to find the queen. Great to know you can continue with your plans if the queen was not found. Thank you for sharing.
Thanks
like🐝🐝🐝❤👍
Thanks
It's cool, but a lot more of a hassle than just finding the queen IMO.
Yeah I haven’t done many of these and it wanted to do a lot of splits it’s not really feasible. But it has worked well for me when I have tried it.
The first
Thanks!
I have never seen bees handled so rough or frames dropped - you will kill a queen sooner or later
Ok. Thanks for watching anyway.
Just skip the ramp and dump all the bees directly into the box
That’s one way to do it.
Would have worked fine if you had just set your board up to the empty hive and let them walk in as you shook them. I see no real advantage to this vs. just moving some frames with bees and brood.
That is an option but not a true Taranov split. Good points. Thanks for checking in.
No thanks..
To each his own🙂 I haven’t done many of these because they are so time consuming but it is another option for those whom may wish to try something new.
What a mess
Thanks for watching lol. Looked chaotic but worked out fine. I don’t do these often. Did at least 25 other splits this weekend differently but thought I would show this technique. I think this was the 5th time I have used this technique or a variation of it in the past couple years and it was successful the other 4 times. Thanks again and best wishes to you and yours.
Man Bruce.....why in the world would anyone do a split like that....That’s cruel...and a way too much work for making a split...
I have done 3 or 4 of them in the past and so far they all worked out fine. It basically just snaps the bees into swarm mode. The bees that would have flown away in the swarm end up in the new box and the bees that would stay behind return to the original hive. It is a way to split without finding the queen. I really don’t think it’s cruel. If I did I would not do it. Shaking bees is something that most beekeepers do while making other type splits, catching swarms, etc. It is true that is it is time consuming and not something that I would typically do. But I like to try different things and show them to my viewers.
I put the new box under the swarm ramp and do the split about 10 feet away. Prevents that extra manipulating of the sheet and ramp. Also prevents accidentally shaking the gathered swarm on the ground. Already oriented workers have no problem returning to their spot from Tha distance.
It also disperses all the workers from the swarm area quicker.
@hischild8899 thanks for the tip
That looks like way too much work and messy. I would do a walkway first.
Yep many different ways to do things. I have done splits many ways, including the walk away split. It is an event for sure and a bit time consuming but just another option for those who may want to try it.
You say that the young nurse bees are the ones that swarm. But they dont fly so that is wronge. You just proved it. All this does is remove all the young nurse bees from the old hive because they dont fly. The young bees that you are putting in the new box will stay there and not return to the old box because they dont fly. There are easier ways to get the nurse bees seperate to make splites.
Open brood above a queen excluder does the same
Shaking open brood frames into new box does the same
Your method will leave the old box with only old bees. And a very low population as the old bees die and you have to wait for the emerging brood to age. You will have a very imbalanced hive.
Well since there are several frames of brood in the donor colony that will emerging very soon there will be plenty of young bees in the hive. They will help the queen emerge. It will not skip a beat. The other hive should also do well getting established, just like a swarm. Yes there are many other ways to do splits. I did 25 +/- the last couple of days and will be introducing queen cells today. The Taranov split is not the most efficient way and it is somewhat time consuming but it works, or at least it has the other times I have done it.
As far as young bees leaving with the swarm I was surprised to learn that as well but that is what I understand. That is why they are so effective at building wax and getting the new colony established. Some may disagree and that is fine but I have studied up on it to confirm because I found it hard to believe initially. I am pretty open minded when it comes to bees and am willing to try things if they make sense to me. Sometimes a new technique will work. Sometimes it fails.
I appreciate your well thought out comment and thank you for watching my videos. I will at times do things wrong, but am trying to share what I do and explain why I do it. If it works then great. If not then people will know what not to do. 🙂
I am going to do a little more research but regardless I have had these type splits work well in the past. Hopefully this one will do the same. Thanks again for checking in Greg.
@@brucesbees as you know bees go thru stages of development. Not all young bees do the same jobs due to those stages. You just removed many of those stages. Leaving the old foragers. When those new bees emerge who will be foraging as it will be about 3 wks til any of the new bees will start flying. That means feeding colonies because they have few foragers. Studies have been done on how long it takes unbalanced hives to fully regain balance. And its months not weeks.
There are just alot more effective ways to split without stressing your bees so much
Ok
Here is a video where I learned the most about the concepts of a Taranov Split. I then did a little research (online of course🤷♂️) and found some similar information to what this guy says regarding which bees go where when a hive swarms. Then I tried it and it worked a couple of times when I did it a little differently and a couple of times when I did it by the book. So I have been looking for the opportunity to do a video on it and decided to do it. In reality anytime you split bees it’s is traumatic. My experience with the Taranov has been good though I have only done it a total of 5 times that I can recall out of hundreds of splits that I have done over the years.
See the link down below. It is long but the explanation makes sense to me. Not trying to argue with you. You make some good points. Just understand that I am not trying to be cruel or reckless. This is a proven technique that is used out there. Something a little different. It is not something I just made up. Here ya go if interested. Thanks🙂
ua-cam.com/video/ETgWMMZr4So/v-deo.html