What is FR/FR and why should you care? ALTO TS212 Full Range, Flat Response Speakers
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- Опубліковано 20 сер 2024
- ► Alto TS212 Full Range, Flat Response - amzn.to/2tOSheR
► More detail here: www.altoproaud...
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I recently moved away from actual amps to my Line 6 Helix thru Line 6 L2T FRFR speakers and it sounds epic. hear great things about the Alto ones.
I've been using my Firehawk FX through www.altoproaudio.com/products/ts112w for awhile now and am sold! I daisy chain the FRFR cab from my pedal through to the PA input. I love my "real" amps, but the convenience of the modeling is incredible. The Headrush, Helix, Firehawk and the like are great alternatives if you want convenience and repeatability when playing out live or jamming at home. I love my Alto and it's built like a TANK!
jcoulter43 I love my digital rig as well, blew they guys away at rehearsal. Finally get what I hear on stage out to front of house as well as in my DAW when recording ;)
Same here guys and agree, I was playing a Line 6 DT25 with Extension cab + HD300 and was stoked but got a GT100 dirt cheap and bought an Alto TS210 and I'm blown away and my band loves my tone also. I am now looking at getting a Helix and I beleive I won't look back. Light, convenient and easy to rout and with killer tone. If my GT100 sounds great then the Helix will be crazy great. I have no idea but I'm actually inspired whilst I'm playing and am loving playing more now, ??. Great product.
ToneKing always teach me something great, in a clear way.
Great video.
Greetings from Switzerland !
Alto PA speakers are good stuff.
We sold them! All went quickly, sounded great.
Ideal type of thing IF you are going to use a modeller without an amp. You WANT the hi-fi output for this kind of thing for the effects that come with it.
FR/FR is good, but NOT as good as NR/NR! ;oP Aussies will get the reference!
DMSProduktions i
12s give you the sonic feel
I am going to be buying either the Headrush or the helix lt this week. I love the features of the headrush, but haven't heard a lot of sound samples. love the sound quality of the helix. I will most likely get an alto to go with whichever one i get. I hope you demo comes out soon. Oh by the way I recently bought the boss katana, Not my thing. i only wish i saw your review before i got it. I can not get agood high lead tone out of it. Oh and great review btw. Thanks
I'm more intrigued by the Tech21 Power Engine Deuce Deluxe with 1x12", on/off tweeter, wood build, rear breathing ports, HPF/LPF, 3EQ. anyone else try it?
I'm intrigued..light them up!!!
Cool video. I've been down this road..1st with the Altos then with QSCs...used with Line6, BOSS GT100, AXEfx2 etc. FR/FRs are great for outdoor gigs etc but they do NOT sound like guitar speakers. I currently play a GT100 through the return of my DSL40 (effectively turning it into a power amp) and it sounds as good as any amp I've owned over the past 20+ years.
'not sounding like guitar speakers' doesn't lie in the PA, its in the accuracy of the cab simulation.
Axefx2 is certainly known for its great cab sims. It didn't sound bad, it just doesn't sound like a real amp set-up. Id suggest a power-amp going into a 2x12 or 4x12. I believe in that set-up, the sims would fool most players including myself.
Then, by definition, the AxeFx Cab sims are lacking. The point is to reproduce the sound of a guitar speaker loaded cab, apparently they aren't doing the job correctly.
krelbar not sure what your point here is. I don't believe anybody in the music community would say that the AXEfx sims are "lacking." The point of my comment was simply that I've had experience with different brands of FR/FR speakers and modelers and that together, IMO, they do not sound like a guitar cab set-up. Again, still great for gigs or practice etc
Sorry for any misunderstanding. Let me clarify. When I say 'lacking' I'm not saying they sound bad, but, by your own admission, they do not simulate a guitar speaker correctly. The FR/FR is only reproducing the sound of the modeler, if you want a sound like a guitar speaker, it will have to come from the modeling. In that respect, the modelers you mentioned fall short. Not trying to be difficult, its just that a FR/FR will only give a representation of the sound fed into it.
I hope you can have a tone test with the POD HD500X. I'm also concerned on the headroom it has during rehearsals. Will a 1100 watt frfr speaker keep up with a hard hitting drummer in a garage setup. Semi- outdoor.
I'm not all up on these particular speakers but "Flat Frequency Response" usually means that there is no frequency specific attenuation (boost or cut) in the in-put signal. In other word's there's no bass/mid/treble filtering. Any amp design can add "coloring" to the sound, if you want to see this, compare two different guitar amps with identical bass/mid/treble (and anything else dealing with frequency specific attenuation) settings. We all agree that a Marshall amp sounds different than a Fender amp... Yes?
For the most part all PA/Monitor speaker amps sound practically identical, mainly because there job is to reinforce sounds that are already amplified or amplify sounds that are naturally acoustic. There are some exceptions for this rule, ever compared a Bose system to a JBL system? Thats a good example of how amp design can "Color" the out-put sound coming out of the speaker's.
As always I enjoyed your videos TTK and Rock on!
Well said, but a Bose system is a gimmick!
All trickery.
"For the most part all PA/Monitor speaker amps sound practically identical". Not entirely. I think you find frequency bumps for all different companies and models.
Any amp design can add "coloring" to the sound? Any amp design WILL add "coloring" to the sound. 🎵🎸
i went bought a EV ekx12 1500 watts. and the headrush sounds great... 🎶🎶🎶🎶😄
Instrumentalists Jade I have the EV ekx12 too, and i use it with my GE200. It's sounds amazing, and also comes with a fan in the back to keep it cool. Got mines for 350 used from reverb 😀 Frfr is definitely the way to go for amp modelers
I have those same speakers. do you now have issues with them I hear the tweeters blow very easily so be careful!!
Isn't this just plugging a multi effects pedal into a PA system?
FRFR Full Range Flat Response...🤔
i will vouch for a power speaker. i play drums off you tube and sing thru mine or mic my cab for even more tones surround. light tough loud. heaven for me wud be surrounded by all m every kinda gear u know. i have an addiction problem for real thinking about gear i cant afford lol. i dont even know how to use all the new computer stuff. i wish i did tho. rock on\m/
how does this stack up vs the Headrush FRFR model? I think that one is 2000 watts
The headrush is a better PA for guitar.
There's no mention on the Alto website as these being FR/FR. Just PA speakers. But Tone King is in the right direction.
It doesn’t have to say it’s “FR/FR” in the description to make it so. You need to look at the specifications to find this out. The range and response specs, which are in fact mentioned in full detail on the Alto website, qualify this speaker as FR/FR. Look a little further when considering new gear than the quick description at the top.
TK O have QSC KRK10s FRFR using my AxeFx2 XLPLUS and there's nothing the combination 0f the 2 it's unreal just completely unresl. I will bring it all to your home n do a demo one day. I spent months researching monitors and it came down to either getting the 20 inch or 12 8 QSC KRKs.. And I'm glad I got the 100 each having a built in 1000 Watt amp with incredible options. I paid alot for my speakers and the reason it's sound they are the best by far. There's a video of a guy comparing every high end monitor thete is using n AxeFx2 I'll post the link like I said it took me months n months of tesearch to choose the QSC KRKs..
Why would you mic and FRFR? IRs already have a mic to them, you’ll just be coloring the sound. The only way for us to hear what it should sound like is for you to run direct into your DAW.
If you want to mic it up, use a power amp and a cab with flat Response, like the Celestion Lead 80s. Or even into a Line 6 Firehawk 1500.
You would do that for demonstrational purposes. For the Video for example. Put a Flat Condenser in the room or even go close with an sm57. maybe it sounds even sicker x)
How we gonna hear it? It has line outs but if he went that route then we would only hear what's coming out of the headrush pedal not the speaker he has to mic the room for us to hear what's coming out of the speaker itself,over UA-cam no??
Fabian Vasquez Jr yup. Bit of a waste of time video. Also, FRFR. Is : Full RANGE Flat Response. Hence the FRFR. It’s not Full Frequency Flat Response. That would be FFFR.
Dream gear way out of my price range. Maybe some day. Thanks Louis.
Thanks MHH. Yeah - this is a dream rig for sure, but it was a good solution for getting the full-on feel of plugging into an amp. Not for everyone, but am always trying to share & educate. Hopefully the video was fun (at least :-). Thanks as always for commenting. Appreciated as always.
The Tone King No ty. Im always intetested in whats out tbere for gear even if its not something for me or not in my price range. I just got my Xvive wireless today. I'll post a vid soon. Thanks again.
+Metal Head Hippie oh cool. Heard about those wireless units. Let me know how it works out?
Will Do.
What about for playing at home without disturbing neighbours?
Hi, very good video, I needed to know if you got the sound that I love for fr fr or speakers for guitar amplifier, thank you very much and greetings from Spain
Great video! So I’m running my pod 500x into a champion 100 bypassing preamp. Would an frfr speaker be better than the champion?
Yes.but i use 8 to 10 inch soeakers instead of 12s. Its clearer with less slow flubby bass. 12s are too big imo.
great video bro I had this idea once
I just read a review that says that these speakers are very noisy "lots of hiss when no signal was going to them". Is that true?
Also noticed that these are being advertised on Google as "1100W RMS".
+Roberto Reyes mine aren't noisy, so I'm not sure.
I bought the TS210 for my GT100 and it's extremely quiet.
The Tone King have you demoed the headrush FRFR yet? They look very similar to the Alto but are 2000 watts
Nice video great guy
I want to try out FRFR speakers with my Line 6 Helix, i play in a deathmetal band and also play live shows. How many watts do i need with an FRFR speaker?
Have you figured this out already? I need to know it too :x
Headrush is coming out with a 2000watt 12" frfr for 299$ shit I'm getting two of em for that price 4000 watts should almost be enough huh??!!??
Fabian Vasquez Jr You are falling for the peak power tag line which is a marketing ploy and not at all true. No one can run their speaker at peak power for more than a few seconds. The actual power of the Headrush 112 is around 800 Watts. This won’t matter much anyway if you are miced up to the pa or going direct. Using as a personal monitor wedge won’t require you to crank it all the way.
Dumb question but will ask anyway.
I have a Washburn G5v, JacksonJS32 Dinky & Ibanez RG 27. Any clues as to which is better, more expensive etc? I am prob going to keep just 1 or 2 (I do like fixed bridges so leaning toward the Jackson) I play mostly 80-90's rock.
Obviously preference comes into it but can you offer some guidance...
Hi Tone King.
Been getting acquainted with your channel in the last months. Enjoyed your electric guitar dying "summit" and your interviews at NAMM.
I just wanted to share a perception I am having which may or may not be correct.
Watching this video, expecting a more technical discussion than an unboxing, I realized that I was watching a commercial instead of getting informed on the virtues of FRFR. My wife even mocked me saying it sounded like I was listening to something like my 5 year old son stumbles on, watching unboxings of Kinder Surprises. My reflex was to disagree but she was right. Perhaps it is fully transparent to your audience and perhaps you have explained this to them in a video I haven't seen by you seem to be plugging specific products here. You talk about Headrush Headrush Headrush giving the uninformed viewer the impression they need to get the Headrush to achieve what you are describing. In fact I am looking to see which pedal board I should buy but it seems you have no videos on Line 6 Helix. Given the rave reviews it has received I wanted to hear the King's take on it to help convince me. So I am starting to realize that that you and perhaps many or all UA-camrs are sponsored and we must be savvy consumers and recognize that things in each channel on UA-cam is purposefully incomplete. I think you probably have to do this to make a living but as a naive viewer I am disappointed that I must take UA-camrs with a grain of salt. I had proudly watched hours of UA-cam thinking I was part of an enthusiast crowd that have only consumer experiences in mind. I might be wrong and you may be an altruist and if so I am sorry, but I cannot find any video of yours on a major contender such as the line 6 Helix, as an example.
I will continue to watch some of your videos but I will now be more wary to turn it off when I sense I am watching a long commercial.
Thanks for all your effort!
TTK what type of unboxing knife is that buddy?
Since you're a fan of Carvin, why don't you go with one of theirs?... I think they have that now as well...
+Michael Angelo H. Not a bad idea!!
alot of these speakers are "flattish response" not total flat response, its not until you get into the top end real pro audio boxes like L'acoustics that make real Flat response,
Could I play my bass through this?
check out Tech21 Power Engine Deuce Deluxe with 1x12", on/off tweeter, wood build, rear breathing ports, HPF/LPF, 3EQ.
EV ZLX 12P ?
What is better, the 10 or 12 inch version of the Alto FRFR? Can't seem to get a solid answer.
id imagine the 12 inch has a bit better bass response
+guitarron777 yeah more bass response , some guy told me that if you will use it with guitar you better go with 10
The 10 actually has the better bass response. And less weigh same watts. I have a 10 and a 8..both kick ass with modelers.
You would run that in stereo of course?
+Watchman4u yes! That's why I got 2 :-)
this will be helpful, ive been looking for an affordable powered FR/FR to use my Atomic AmpliFire threw and these are much better pricing then anything similar.
Should sound massive!
Thru/through.
I like to trigger people.
Do you have to use two speakers (stereo) if it's a full frequency speaker?
FR/FR is just a marketing term for 'not a guitar speaker' for those confused by the term 'not a guitar speaker'.
Nah... FR is FR... It's not marketing. It's an accurate product-description.
Pure marketing. There is no such thing unless you mean a "theoretically flat response" speaker. There are other parameters, as another below points out. As for full range...compared to what? The guitar speaker is the weird one. This just isn't weird that way...like almost every speaker other than a guitar speaker. Of course a studio monitor would usually be 'flatter' that a boom box, but guitar players are dumb suckers so they made up something to explain something one already should know. The amount of 'flatness' just defines the accuracy. Unless I just missed the 'RMS Flatness Spec.' or something, and the frequency response spec. of 'Full'...LOL! This might help: www.centerpointaudio.com/HowToUnderstandFlatFrequencyResponseGraph.aspx
As to accurate product description? We professional marketers know that is related specifically to your point of origin. I believe you might be the proper demo.
Flat is flat... It's nothing new. It's called "Hi-Fi", smartass. It's meant to be FLAT RESPONSE so that it doesn't color like a typical guitar-speaker as in how they're designed to have a certain character. Flat response speakers don't have that built in, just like most hi-fi speakers since decades. And there are plenty of companies that make flat response speakers/cabinets that are supposed to be for all-round use.
Why are you being a condescending twat about it?... Just because you don't understand it or want to accept that it's not a new marketing-gimmick but an actual thing, another type of speaker from your typical guitar-speaker.
You don't have to "market" that, it's just what it is. Why would you need to "sell" it?? - You either want/need that type of speaker or you don't.
Ok, I get it, this is youtube.
Yea, I can see that...
Why do you keep saying full frequency full response when FR/FR means Full range/full response like the description for the video says....you said like at least 3 times in the video that FR/FR means full frequency full response or full response full frequency lol anyway a great video nonetheless thanks for doing what you do.
when the camera is rolling - it's often a tongue twister, given it's unscripted. Either way , it's Full Range, Flat Response. That's what I meant to say in all cases. Sorry for any misunderstandings. (BTW - you also got it wrong in what you typed - lol)
It's all the same thing
Oh, boy! You have misinterpreted stuff. You CAN'T get same sound you can get from amp & cabinet speakers, because modelers DON'T model speaker output, but they have IR (Impulse response = miced cabinet snapshot = sound you get in a studio control room when the cabinet is miced in live room). Flat response is what good studio monitors should be having, so you just got yourself nice studio monitors. Bigger speaker size just ensures that it doesn't struggle to reproduce very low frequencies.
Not entirely wrong, but not entirely right. Most IR cab are Impulses done with a cab "miced", and therefore correspond to the sound of the cab in a very specific place with a very specific mic. However, depending system, some might propose a full representation of the cab (generally by mixing different IR Cabs to reproduce the sound as close as possible). In that case, since a FRFR Cab can "play back" a full range of frequencies, it will be capable to play the frequencies we get from a regular Cab that would have a smaller response curve. So it's like applying HPF or LPF to voluntarily "limit" the restitution of a sound. So, depending your digital modeller, with a FRFR you might come very close to a cab sound. Is that 100% accurate? Personally I don't think so (but still close enough for most application), some might argue differently... to each his own.
So yeah, an IR Cab alone is not the full sound of a cab. But it is still possible to get multiple IR Cab to capture the whole sound, and then to combine them to recreate one to be loaded in your digital amp.
So much headrush...
Full "Range" Flat response :-)
+The Tactical 6 String Yes. Sorry for the tongue twister in the video. Maybe I should make cue cards :-)
Well, this is still accurate to say full frequencies... because it's the frequency range. So it's not wrong, and most people will get it... but yeah, FR is not for Full Frequency ;)
Rush Limbaugh does gear demos. This guy is a dead ringer.....