I just had a weird, but potentially useful, idea. Take a reference track (Bohemian Rhapsody? Basket Case? Who knows...) and line-in it into each speaker. The one that sounds like the recording wins.
I wish it was that simple, I played a song on a headrush 108 that was thumping and sounded AMAZING, but my Line 6 did not sound good through it, even after hours of tweaking.
@@guitarandotherthings6090 it's not about what sounds amazing, just what doesn't change the sound. And if you have a very accurate microphone, some time and an anechoic chamber you can measure it objectively.
I thought the point of an FRFR is to accurately reproduce the sound of the modeled amp AND CABINET? I don't care what the FRFR cab sounds like without the cab sim. I could just use my regular guitar cab for that. I want the versatility. I want an FRFR that sounds like an Orange with an Orange cab sim or a Marshall with a Marshall cab sim or a Mesa with Mesa cab sim. 1 cab get's you 3 different and distinct cab sounds. Isn't that the point?
Agree wholeheartedly, I'm using EV Tour_X PA cabs, a pair of 1X15 w/horn, and a pair of 18" subs powered by a Crown XTi-2002. They seem to be pretty accurate, however I am thinking that maybe a pair of near field studio monitors from a high end vendor like Focal or Wilson might give the best response however better have 10K to 30K to toss into speaker cabs.
I mean... the point of an FRFR is to have an unbiased, (F)lat (R)esponse. The purpose of this video was just to demonstrate the natural harmonic differences between what's out there on the market. They're all using the same exact profile with the same exact cab sim for that reason. If you're looking for cab sim demonstrations through a specific FRFR, you've come to the wrong place. Oh, and I'm not trying to sound like some condescrnding UA-cam douchebag, just trying to maybe help those confused on this thread understand the point of the video. I feel more cab sims should have been on display in this specific video though to kind of help further showcase any tonal differences between the four FRFRs, so I suppose that I agree with OP to a certain extent.
I said before I have both the headrush 1x8 and 1x12. I tried running a stereo signal left and right to each. Sounded great. Fortunately you can split and eq each signal separately in the Helix.
Why didnt you do the Suhr on the cleans at the end? lol Or even at the end of the video..... By far sounded the clearest and best on 1st comparison, and im sure it did on the 2nd aswell :P
Amazing how different these sound. In theory they should all sound the same if they were truly flat, but I guess it’s the same principal as studio monitors; get the one you like which doesn’t tire your ears.
@@NOKnova I'd reckon the FRFR principle would have to remain intact after considering the enclosure design. After all, what's the point of marketing it as an FRFR solution? I second the OP; it is baffling how different FRFR solutions can sound.
@@FrankyFeedler it’s kind of a false pretense because it’s not possible to truly achieve a fully flat response. You can however reach a level that is imperceivable to the human ear. Companies can maintain the marketing spiel by providing the technical data of the response of the speakers - if it’s flat enough to a certain degree, they can call it as such. All sorts of factors can affect how FRFR solutions sound in practice, such as the enclosure size/positioning, design (such as reflex ports, front or rear mounted drivers, crossovers etc) but in a controlled environment pass the tolerances of what could be considered “FRFR” Edit: to answer the question - the point is centered around the belief that producing audio via a well tuned FRFR system produces a better end result. Gearheads will fight for the flattest response they can achieve, whereas in reality you can do more than well enough by spreading your referencing across a FRFR system (not necessarily ultra-high end) in addition to other listening methods such as headphones, non FRFR speakers, car radio, tv/phone speakers etc. For multifx/modelers with IR compatability - you want to hear an uncoloured reproduction of your impulse. In theory, the flatter the response of your speaker, the more accurate the reproduction of the impulse.
Gemini 2 had the best tone in my opinion. I could see it cutting well in a live situation. I would never buy it however, at $1400 and 70lbs it’s simply overpriced, to big and way to heavy to haul to most gigs.
So you're saying it has a better treble and mid response than competing FRFR's? That's usually what cuts through a mix, though EQ can be tweaked to adjust for this.
I recently bought a Boss GT1000 and the shop (PMT in Birmingham, UK) specifically advised against using an FRFR because it's going straight to the front of house PA. So, you want a sound coming at you that is similar to the front of house PA and that's the rig you want to set your sound up through too. In the shop, I used a QSC CP12 (which was awesome) but at home, I've been using an old Alto PS4HA which sounds great. This Alto is very old and comes from the days when Alto seemed to be making quality gear. We gigged last Saturday through a Mackie PA rig (SRM450's + a pair of 18" subs) and whilst the sound out front wasn't exactly the same as the Alto PS4HA it was close enough and sounded excellent. When I demoed the GT1000 in PMT I tried it through a Headrush 112 as well as the QSC. The difference was stark. The Headrush was very middley. I didn't like it. It sounded like an entry-level PA cab (which is what it is). Now, if I had the cash I'd go and buy the QSC CP12 because it sounded excellent and was smaller and lighter than the Alto PS4HA I'm using. The QSC would also be less expensive than everything on this video except the Alto TS112/Headrush 112 (same cab, different name). So, based on my experience so far I'd echo PMT's advice. Don't buy an FRFR. Buy a good quality PA cab or wedge that will replicate the sound of the PA.
Also before people forget. You’re supposed to have them on a stand so it doesn’t sound bassy supposedly from all the guys who own the head rush version.
I think people often overlook how much of a role a microphone, Mic placement, and room size have to do with a sound. Kempers are great and I use them but even I can admit that it can't quite simulate all the different factors that go into recording a sound. It's not just an amp or cab that make a tone. There's a lot more to it. That being said, the kemper is very convenient however if I can mess around with multiple mics on different cabs and amps going into different compressors with various angles and room sizes then I will always go that route if possible.
I liked the Friedman the best. Also I have 2 Alto TS,210s and they don't sound bassy at all!! I was going to get the 12s but got a really good deal on the 10s. Very happy that I did..Go with the 10s. Next thing I'm going to try is running the Helix through a Marshall 40 combo. 1 cable to return on the amp.see who that sounds..
Along comes the Fender Tone Master FR10 and FR12. Plus there's good old Headrush. Or a simple alternative if you already have a guitar cab, and that's to get a power amp such as a Semour Duncan PowerStage amp between your modeler & existing cab(s) ... of course, it's not true FRFR, but could be money well spent. The budget alternative is Playtech or Harley Benton GPA-100 power amps (limited power, but very affordable).
The fact that they are in different parts of the room has a crazy influence on the sound!! You should all put them in the same place to shoot out I’d say
Yup. And what is around it, next to it and behind it has a big effect on the bass response. Do any of these cabs have DSP compensation for such? Often modern powered PA speakers have that kind of thing, and are most often initially designed to perform best on stands, which would make them too bassy if you put them on the floor.
To me the Mission sounded best out of the FRFR"S. But overall I liked the Powered Kemper with the guitar cabinet. But I guess I'm biased because I run a Powered Kemper and a 112 Orange cab with a 90 watt Celestion Creme.
Excellent video, gents, as well as fantastic commentary. To me, the Gemini 2 sounds "the best"; personally, for the price of single Gemini 2 stereo unit I got a pair of two Powercab Plus units and now enjoy stereo with nice spread in the room :) Thanks!
The Friedman sounded more like thew Alto than the Mission. I have the Alto TS315 with a Boss GT-8. I don't have the bass problem because my patches a e.q to taste. I low cut at 165 or 200 hz. Boost my low mids at 500 or 800 hz +3db with a Q=1. The Suhr and Mission cabs are top end balanced.
I’m currently running my Friedman Dirty Shirley through a Tone Tubby cab and then also ( on the line out circuit obviously ) into an Ox and then on over to a Headrush FRFR 1x10. It sounds fantastic and I rarely even use this glorious 2x12 Tone Tubby anymore. The 1x10 Headrush is very reasonably priced too for the sound you’re getting.
i like this kind of comparison where you'll mention right away if you hear the difference. Personally, i have the Alto 312 and i use it to play bass with.
I’ve heard the mission in person with good stereo effects coming from a quad cortex and it’s ABSOLUTELY worth the price tag. I would say though, if you already have a good 2x12 cab, consider something like the fryette or synergy single unit power amps and wire up a second speaker jack to give your cab real tube stereo power and sound. I’ve heard my Kemper like this with a VHT 50/2/50 and it was glorious. Doesn’t sound too bad with my power station but the VHT unit was next level and true stereo. Edit: Well the Gemini II is well over $2000 now so yeah screw that. And none of the reverb sellers want to ship. Since posting my comment, I've gigged with the new 2nd gen EV ZLX12 which I really like and it has an FRFR mode that makes it sound much more natural like a guitar cab than my 1st Gen ZLX12 that I've been using forever. I've also gigged with the Fender FR12 and it's pretty decent and the top controls are handy for quick adjustments but I still think the Gen2 ZLX12 sounds better. Haven't gotten to try the Friedman or Line6 yet.
I use a TS312 with my keyboard. I'm very happy with it. Especially for organ. The sound is rich and full and louder than I need. I paid $299 at Guitar Center about two years ago.
Subjectivity being an elusive metric, which FRFR cab is the MOST FRFR. Flatness and efficiency are measurable in objective terms using mics made specifically for calibration and equalization.
After trying a lot, the best solution for my personal monitor is a traditional cab 2x12 creamback, valve poweramp with cab off in the monitor output, the main outputs directly to FOH
Great review HW, the Gemini might have been $1400 when you shot this but they are now over $2000 . Even used ones are over the new price you mention here.
Here is the deal..... no matter which one you get, you will need to tweak it to the sound you like. You can get all of them to sound similar.. you might just have to change some of your modeled amp settings.
For Part 2 I would love to hear the QSC K8.2 & K10.2, Atomic CLR v2, Alto TS310, and the Yamaha DXR12. I've run my Kemper and/or Atomic Amplifier 6 through the following: straight to the PA (Jensen 15" mains), Alto TS210, QSC K10, or Hughes & Kettner TM112 (cab emulation off on modeler). Most anything will work if you EQ your presets for what you've got. I found the Alto TS210 is more bassy compared to the QSC K10. Some MUST have the amp-in-the-room sound, but luckily I'm not that sensitive so any speaker will do.
I admit I skipped around and might have missed it but it seems a BETTER demo would have been to directly record a chord progression and THEN compare the FRFR's to that so you can tell how each cabinet colors the sound in relationship to that and not just to each other.
For those who plan to send a Kempner, Helix, etc. directly to front of house, it seems like the point of an FRFR speaker is to duplicate the front of house speaker tone as much as possible. If you pick the “best sounding” FRFR speaker and dial tones in through that, it might sound very different than what it sounds like in the house.
Totally agree, us guitar players get taken for a ride so often with "magic juice" "this r that feature". If you want to know what your tone is gonna be like in a venue, do a damn sound check with the band during rehearsal. I know you cant do that at some venues. Get a regular PA system. Please just do that. Lots cheaper and your tone will be closer and more reliable to what your ACTUAL CUSTOMERS are gonna here. If you are in your bedroom just jerking by yourself, no worries just get whatever you want.
normally if im doing a medium to small sized gig, i will use the same frfr as the front system...this way i know what i am grooving to is the same as the audience...i dont know how many times ive been groovin on stage thinkin the band is killin it, until i step out front and hear the mix...visa versa, ive dreaded to go out front to hear the mix due to the onstage sucking...only to find that the mix is awesome...pay that sound person with respect!
Thank you!!! Ive searched for this video andx was about to give up. New to the FRFR technology and been lost trying to figure it out. You are awesome! Thanks buddy. Line 6 plus I think for me... Cheers!!
There's a new kid on the Block and I think it's going to be a game-changer the Laney lfr-112... Laney has always been on the top of my list as a quality amp and cab Company
I use the Headrush 108 with my Helix, and although I'm not having a pop at you here as I hear this a lot....how can having too much Bass be an issue, or a negative, when all you have to do is go to Global EQ, and pull it back....problem/issue resolved. It's the same with the top end, just pull it back.....sorted. OMO.
I used to run a kemper through a pretty badass avatar cab. It's not good haha. I got rid of my kemper instead of just buying a mission FRFR, which I should have done to begin with.
I've seen quite a lot of videos on this subject. I'm always surprised people overlook the option to use a power amp (Crown/Behringer etc) and passive PA monitors/speakers/wedges. They are easy to setup for mono or stereo and you have a wide choice to suit different budgets. Plus you can set them up to give a wide stereo spread if you choose to use two speakers.
I'm using 2 Alto 210s you're right about the bass. I'm interested in two other solutions not mentioned in your review, the Xitone and the Atomic CLR. Any interest in reviewing those? I'm using a fractal FM3 live the unit.. Lastly great review! Will done. I really don't like it when people review gear and they're using a super overdriven amp it's really review of the amp not the speakers it's really review of the amp not the guitar You can't even tell what the guitar sounds like your review was just the opposite very well done thank you appreciate it
To do a fair stereo comparison to the mission cabinet, you would need to compare it to the line 6 supercab plus 212 stereo. First the weight - supercab.45lbs. Mission 70lbs. Second the fact that the supercab has the speaker simulation has more versatility and the simulations are very close to the original speaker. I have both the mission and the supercab 212 stereo. I do prefer the line 6 over the mission for the reasons above. In my opinion it sounds more like an amp in the room over the mission. Of course tone and preferences are of a personal taste.
I use a ALTO 310 with a Helix LT. Regarding the equalization, I only have to use a cut in the low frequencies and use the global eq. totally powerful for a stage or for play with metal drummer.
To truly appreciate the Powercab+ you really need to take advantage of all of the tools it gives you. First, the Powercab is expecting a line level signal so make sure your Kemper is not set to Mic Level signal. Using the Speaker models in the Powercab is great but you need to disable any cab modelling you may have in your modeler. As you stated, the Greenback sounds like a Greenback, etc. if you adjust the settings in your Kemper profile and tune that profile for use with the Powercab you will get optimal results. The Powercab+ has a Direct Out that models the Powercab (and whatever Speaker Emulation you are running) being mic'd by several mic options at variable distances so you would never have to mic the Powercab in a live situation. You select a mic, and there are several popular dynamic, ribbon, and condenser mic options, distance from 1 to 12 inches, a low and high cut, and you also have +- 12db of gain to send to front of house. I have played the Powercab+ in a large venue setting with the direct Out sent to front of house and it sounds incredible but you really end up making it a part of how you program your modeler. You are now programming based on the Powercab being an integral part of the overall sound. In that sense, it does "color" the tone but in a real world situation, a 4x12 Marshall cabinet "colors" the tone of a Marshall amp and is an integral part of its sound as well.
I'm using a fEARless F112 and F115 (12" and 15" neo-based LF drivers, respectively). Three-way passive cabinets with a LF driver, a Faital 5" mids and a tweeter that are FRFR with an affinity for bottom end when presented with it. My F112 will handle up to 800W (the F115 more) and weighs just 34 lbs. Generally flat response (these could easily be used for PA work) with little "baked in" sound, and they accept EQ easily.
If you haven’t, you should try the L3T Line 6, as it works great as single, stereo/dual mono and Wet-Dry-Wet, as active PA’s. They are like form fitting for the Helix, and great with the AxeFX and Kemper.
I have the Freidman ASM 12 and sometimes wish I would have bought something a little bit lighter. For a person with a disability, this thing is a tank but it sounds pretty good. After hearing the comparisons on here where I think the Mission cab sounds best by far but it is heavy!
So I liked Suhr, but I still don’t understand some things. The Kemper is a head all in itself? Power amp and all? It can power a cabinet? Is this really the same exact profile on each unit? How is it I haven’t been able to use any modeler profile on an FRFR and a guitar cab all the same? It may sound similar for me, but through real guitar speakers there’s something seriously wrong, it sounds crispy! Why?!
we would like an updated version. This time you guys should build a celestion spec f12-x200 cab and shoot it out against some high dollar frfr cabs....seriously.
Hi HW, I use a Gemini 1 which I love. For half the weight I don't miss the stereo for playing out. One time I was at a place where the electric was bad and we could not get a direct line form the Kemper without a huge buzz and we tried all the tricks. (I've been a studio engineer for 30+ years.) We ended up miking the Gemini 1 and it sounded incredible. I had people asking me how I got that tone. LOL As a studio engineer one thing that never made sense to me was that I was expecting the FRFR (Gemini 1) to sound similar to my studio monitors when I am running the Kemper, or at least close but it doesn't really. LOL I even mess around with Pure Cab settings but it still doesn't sound like my Gemini 1. Although I do turn the FRFR knob to 50% because the flat FRFR doesn't sound as good flat and that probably is some of the difference I'm hearing. But I still think it should sound better running into my DAW than it does.
I use my mesa recto 4x12 straight cab with the powered rack kemper and the mesa dual rack profile sounds great with a cab sim on or off and i use active fishman modern fluence humbuckers in a prs ebay custom build solid body guitar so that with the 1.10 mm hard pick dunlop helps for punk and metal tones. I also have always thought the straight cabs have more bass responses on the open drop c chugs on a good, heavy, distorted gain amp profile. I also get great tones for a mesa clean with automatic phaser for a few songs, bad cat hi gain for a 90s bush like tone, vox ac30 hand wired tone for pretty cleans with a volume swell effect option and a fender twin reverb for that mid range over drive crunch tone before going into heavy distortion.
I might be writing this to early but is there a power supply you can buy for a kemper, helix, Headrush,Axfx where you can use it with a regular 2x12 or 4x12 cab.
Yamaha DXR12 or DXR15 are quite common choices for FRFR, the 15 can move serious air and can give a pretty solid cab like feel. I don't know what was the sound level on these when you tried it, but turn them up. I bet the Friedman sounds a lot more open on reharsal/gig levels.
I'm not sure what you mean as to why a stereo cab is important is important when most setups are going to FOH where stereo channels are separated. The only real way a stereo setup in a cab will effectively feel stereo is if the speakers are angled away from each other which will reflect the sound off of opposite sides of the room.
Tried a couple of line 6 FRFR speakers when I bought my Kemper. Didn’t like either and ended up with powered Kemper and a orange 1x12 guitar cab. Turn off cab simulator and it’s so much better than an FRFR. Does it colour the sound? Maybe, but that’s not a bad thing. For recording, feel free to record direct with cab sim on, but for live play, a proper cab is best in my opinion
Unleash The Fury I come from the standpoint that the feeling is just wrong on an FRFR cab. To say a guitar cab colours the sound is pointless as all these different FRFR speakers sound different to each other, so they must also colour the sound slightly. I only tried the line 6 ones in the shop, and it didn’t feel like I was playing a guitar amp, felt a bit like playing plugged directly into a computer audio interface. Soon as I switched to a guitar cab, I was playing An amp again! And that to me is really important in getting the right feeling when playing. If you practise at home, a proper cab will sound and feel better and you can still turn it down low volume. And the guitar cab I got was cheaper than the FRFR so the extra I spent on the powered Kemper rather than unpowered, I saved on the cab.
Jake Fowler ok but what about in a live show situation with a band? Ive watched my friend play a solo show with backing tracks and his unpowered kemper sounded amazing through the venues PA. I dont doubt the awesomeness of a powered kemper through a cab, however. Im just concerned about the live aspect with a full band
Unleash The Fury when in a loud band and through a PA, your probably not gonna notice a difference, I would plug directly into pa in that situation, rather than mic a guitar cab and run the mic feed to pa. I believe you can go direct to pa, and also use a guitar cab as a reference speaker on stage so either way, there is no downside to the powered Kemper over the unpowered one.
I use a Gemini 1 which I love. I wish he had included it in the video. It is lighter and less expensive than the Gemini 2 and of course, it sounds fantastic. It came highly recommend to me before I bought it by some top notch engineers.
@@MrJamesRose I'm using a Kemper. Studio monitors can vary greatly but I actually talked about this in my other comment on this video. I noticed the Kemper sounds different through my monitors but the Gemini sounds closer to a guitar cab and I sometimes move the knob from full FRFR to 50% cabinet. I usually tweak my profiles to the Gemini1 rather than my studio monitors. I can always EQ in my DAW to get closer t0 the Gemini1 sounds. Fact is that studios monitors sound very different from model to model and so do FRFR's. If you mike guitar cabs you'll notice the sound isn't exactly the same through your monitors as it is coming out of the amp. So it's the same principle.
As I expected, I liked the guitar cab the best. The Mission Gemini was my favorite of the FRFR cabs but 70 pounds? Forget that. I might as well just play my Kemper through my Soldano 4x12 which is what I do now. I have the power head and it sounds great through my 4x12 with G12H30s. Before I bought my Kemper everyone talked about what a compromise it was to play through a guitar cab. I totally disagree. I think it sounds great.
thing is your presets will never sound the same in a live setting where you don't have the cab you tweaked them for. What if it's not available for some reason?
I liked the Misson Engineering Gemini. It sounds great - The Suhr with the Scumbacks is great also but a little too bright for me, but I identify better with the sound of the Gemini with that Kemper profile, but the price is too high. The others sound muddy or 'dark', like muffed or something. Not to my taste. Moneywise I'll go with the HeadRush FRFR12 for around $320. Sounds good, to be honest. Kemper Kone Kabinet is very cool, and sounds awesome, yet does not have an active version for the Kemper Stage.
I though a bit about getting an FRFR. Then I used my old Marshall Valvestate 8008 and pimped a 2x12 LaRoqua cab with 2 Redbacks and never looked back. This comparison proofs to me that as a rock player, a good cab with my favorite Celestions is all I need for a, mmh, "normal" rock guitar sound. Cheers!
the frfr cab is just a part of the setup. i use a sm57 and get an even fuller sound. if you want the kemper to sound like the real deal, you gotta do it.
They wouldn't need a setting for modelers IMO, those things would easily smoke every single one of these offerings because they are voiced for a flat response in a live environment, but they also have the price to match. a couple of K12's would be a dream setup and honestly overkill for most any guitarist. But I would love it and I'm thinking of getting a pair of K10's for this use. I use a friend of mine's system and use K12's as floor monitors and K153's as mains along with some 18" subs on the regular and absolutely love, love, love them. I've also used a pair of k12's as mains for a small gig and it rocked a whole corner of a city block. It's hard to beat those things. I've used all kinds of speakers in my lifetime and those are right up there with my favorites like D&B Audiotechnik and Meyer Audio, and Funktion One. D&B Audiotechnik excelled at natural acoustic tones (the ones I used had real wood cabs which I think is responsible for the response and natural sound I was hearing, barely had to eq anything at all) and the Meyer excelled at electric tones and the F1 excelled at electronica (which, incidentally, is crazy because the F1 at literally more than a mile away sounded crystal clear like a tiny HiFi Bluetooth speaker playing perfectly balanced music, which is unlike any PA I've ever heard), but the QSC is just an all around great sounding, great value. They have definitely made an impression on me. A couple of K10s would be better than any of these in this videos in my opinion, I bet you're thinking the same thing since you brought it up. (Sorry if I'm ranting but I get excited about audio stuff, happy playing and holidays and many more good times to you sir)
So what exactly is the point of an FRFR cab? Is it to be able to run different speaker/cab sims to make it sound like the cab/speakers that you want? Is that the main point?
I have the headrush 1 x 12 and the 1x8. The 1x8 is a little less bassy and a little tighter. I use 1 x8 for guitar and the 1x12 for my electronic drums. They actually both sound great once you adjust the eq a bit. I play a lot of metal. I think if I had to run a line in straight to front of house from my helix I would probably run a separate eq to match them somewhat.
My question is .... shouldn’t we be getting those Cab sounds from the modeler, that it should already be shaping the sound?with that question, the “cab” setting on the Gemini was fantastic. Just that price.... out of my price range.
Poor guy spent all his money on kempers.
Can't even afford shoes. 😔
All those toasters, and no bread :(
@@mucnuggets lol
Haha
Who needs shoes when you have a kemper ? 😀 lol
All those toasters and no fractal :(
Change where a Kemper is connected? No.
Have 5 kempers! Hah.
For me it is the Friedman all the way. This was the only one where I felt to hear an actual real amp and cab combo.
I just had a weird, but potentially useful, idea. Take a reference track (Bohemian Rhapsody? Basket Case? Who knows...) and line-in it into each speaker. The one that sounds like the recording wins.
Brilliant Idea..makes sense..👍👍
I wish it was that simple, I played a song on a headrush 108 that was thumping and sounded AMAZING, but my Line 6 did not sound good through it, even after hours of tweaking.
@@guitarandotherthings6090 it's not about what sounds amazing, just what doesn't change the sound. And if you have a very accurate microphone, some time and an anechoic chamber you can measure it objectively.
Great Idea, thats also actually a way to tell, if a Studio Monitor fits to your linking.
I thought the point of an FRFR is to accurately reproduce the sound of the modeled amp AND CABINET? I don't care what the FRFR cab sounds like without the cab sim. I could just use my regular guitar cab for that. I want the versatility. I want an FRFR that sounds like an Orange with an Orange cab sim or a Marshall with a Marshall cab sim or a Mesa with Mesa cab sim. 1 cab get's you 3 different and distinct cab sounds. Isn't that the point?
Cory Moore exactly! I use the Mission KM-212P Cabinet when I’m NOT using cab sims...
Makes sense
totally agree I thought that was the point. im more confused now than I was before haha
Agree wholeheartedly, I'm using EV Tour_X PA cabs, a pair of 1X15 w/horn, and a pair of 18" subs powered by a Crown XTi-2002. They seem to be pretty accurate, however I am thinking that maybe a pair of near field studio monitors from a high end vendor like Focal or Wilson might give the best response however better have 10K to 30K to toss into speaker cabs.
I mean... the point of an FRFR is to have an unbiased, (F)lat (R)esponse. The purpose of this video was just to demonstrate the natural harmonic differences between what's out there on the market. They're all using the same exact profile with the same exact cab sim for that reason. If you're looking for cab sim demonstrations through a specific FRFR, you've come to the wrong place.
Oh, and I'm not trying to sound like some condescrnding UA-cam douchebag, just trying to maybe help those confused on this thread understand the point of the video. I feel more cab sims should have been on display in this specific video though to kind of help further showcase any tonal differences between the four FRFRs, so I suppose that I agree with OP to a certain extent.
It's so frustrating. All FRFR units, by definition, should sound the same.
Which goes to show you that the types of speaker, along with cabinet construction/materials, go a long way in affecting the sound.
This is such a loaded comment...
"You might think that, but you'd be wrong" -Jeremy Clarkson
Can’t get around different materials and dimensions affecting sound.
But the point of them is to sound the same.
I said before I have both the headrush 1x8 and 1x12. I tried running a stereo signal left and right to each. Sounded great. Fortunately you can split and eq each signal separately in the Helix.
Great Great job!!! thanks for demonstrating this. People talk and talk - I like seeing & hearing the speakers using the KP.
01. Gemini 2 - 3:15
01. Alto 312 - 3:34
01. Friedman ASM12 - 3:54
01. Line 6 PowerCab - 4:24
01. Scumback M75 - 4:42
02. Gemini 2 - 5:05
02. Alto 312 - 5:26
02. Friedman ASM12 - 5:48
02. Line 6 PowerCab - 6:09
03. Gemini 2 Flat - 8:35
03. Gemini 2 Empower - 8:54, 9:19
THANK YOU! While I appreciate what he does for the community, it's often a bit too much talking for my taste. ;)
😌👌
up
Why didnt you do the Suhr on the cleans at the end? lol Or even at the end of the video..... By far sounded the clearest and best on 1st comparison, and im sure it did on the 2nd aswell :P
Amazing how different these sound. In theory they should all sound the same if they were truly flat, but I guess it’s the same principal as studio monitors; get the one you like which doesn’t tire your ears.
This is true, but the differences between the enclosures will have an effect even if all the speakers were truly flat response
@@NOKnova I'd reckon the FRFR principle would have to remain intact after considering the enclosure design. After all, what's the point of marketing it as an FRFR solution? I second the OP; it is baffling how different FRFR solutions can sound.
@@FrankyFeedler it’s kind of a false pretense because it’s not possible to truly achieve a fully flat response. You can however reach a level that is imperceivable to the human ear.
Companies can maintain the marketing spiel by providing the technical data of the response of the speakers - if it’s flat enough to a certain degree, they can call it as such. All sorts of factors can affect how FRFR solutions sound in practice, such as the enclosure size/positioning, design (such as reflex ports, front or rear mounted drivers, crossovers etc) but in a controlled environment pass the tolerances of what could be considered “FRFR”
Edit: to answer the question - the point is centered around the belief that producing audio via a well tuned FRFR system produces a better end result. Gearheads will fight for the flattest response they can achieve, whereas in reality you can do more than well enough by spreading your referencing across a FRFR system (not necessarily ultra-high end) in addition to other listening methods such as headphones, non FRFR speakers, car radio, tv/phone speakers etc.
For multifx/modelers with IR compatability - you want to hear an uncoloured reproduction of your impulse. In theory, the flatter the response of your speaker, the more accurate the reproduction of the impulse.
Gemini 2 had the best tone in my opinion. I could see it cutting well in a live situation. I would never buy it however, at $1400 and 70lbs it’s simply overpriced, to big and way to heavy to haul to most gigs.
So you're saying it has a better treble and mid response than competing FRFR's? That's usually what cuts through a mix, though EQ can be tweaked to adjust for this.
Yep, it sounds the best but at this point, I may as well go back to lugging around my AC30!
Great video.
Sound:
1. Mission
2. Scumback
3. Line 6
4. Friedman
5. Alto
Best bang for the buck - Line 6. Nice space saver too.
I recently bought a Boss GT1000 and the shop (PMT in Birmingham, UK) specifically advised against using an FRFR because it's going straight to the front of house PA. So, you want a sound coming at you that is similar to the front of house PA and that's the rig you want to set your sound up through too.
In the shop, I used a QSC CP12 (which was awesome) but at home, I've been using an old Alto PS4HA which sounds great. This Alto is very old and comes from the days when Alto seemed to be making quality gear. We gigged last Saturday through a Mackie PA rig (SRM450's + a pair of 18" subs) and whilst the sound out front wasn't exactly the same as the Alto PS4HA it was close enough and sounded excellent.
When I demoed the GT1000 in PMT I tried it through a Headrush 112 as well as the QSC. The difference was stark. The Headrush was very middley. I didn't like it. It sounded like an entry-level PA cab (which is what it is).
Now, if I had the cash I'd go and buy the QSC CP12 because it sounded excellent and was smaller and lighter than the Alto PS4HA I'm using. The QSC would also be less expensive than everything on this video except the Alto TS112/Headrush 112 (same cab, different name).
So, based on my experience so far I'd echo PMT's advice. Don't buy an FRFR. Buy a good quality PA cab or wedge that will replicate the sound of the PA.
Who has 5 Kempers? that guy
probably just some church boys having sleepover party on Saturday night before the big gig the next day
i was just thinking, am i the only one that is wondering why they went with 5 kempers instead of a switchbox lol 8D
Look around his room. Guy really is a Tone Junkie. I’d love a day in that room.
I just wrote the same thing lololol. Then I scrolled down & BOOM, 1st thing I see is your comment.
Forget the 5 kempers it’s the Eames lounge chair I want
Wow! That Gemini 2 is incredible! Thanks for this. Great video!
On the off chance it's not already coming up in part two, the new Laney LFR-112 is well worth checking out.
Those Altos are voiced to be used by DJs which is why they have so much bass. The Headrush is the guitar equivalent.
Also before people forget. You’re supposed to have them on a stand so it doesn’t sound bassy supposedly from all the guys who own the head rush version.
Extremely happy with the Kemper rack into a Marshall 1960B 4x12.
My favorite guitarist on Earth, Takayoshi Ohmura uses that set up & it sounds PERFECT....
I think people often overlook how much of a role a microphone, Mic placement, and room size have to do with a sound. Kempers are great and I use them but even I can admit that it can't quite simulate all the different factors that go into recording a sound. It's not just an amp or cab that make a tone. There's a lot more to it. That being said, the kemper is very convenient however if I can mess around with multiple mics on different cabs and amps going into different compressors with various angles and room sizes then I will always go that route if possible.
For me and my ears
I will go with ME , and friedman .. those two are good for me ..
thank you for making this vid
I liked the Friedman the best. Also I have 2 Alto TS,210s and they don't sound bassy at all!! I was going to get the 12s but got a really good deal on the 10s. Very happy that I did..Go with the 10s. Next thing I'm going to try is running the Helix through a Marshall 40 combo. 1 cable to return on the amp.see who that sounds..
ME Gemini is incredible. Alto should be tried the 310 because the 12 speaker has too bass content, as you noticed
Great really need an updated version of this comparison with new stuff on the market....I am so confused on what to buy
Along comes the Fender Tone Master FR10 and FR12. Plus there's good old Headrush. Or a simple alternative if you already have a guitar cab, and that's to get a power amp such as a Semour Duncan PowerStage amp between your modeler & existing cab(s) ... of course, it's not true FRFR, but could be money well spent. The budget alternative is Playtech or Harley Benton GPA-100 power amps (limited power, but very affordable).
The fact that they are in different parts of the room has a crazy influence on the sound!! You should all put them in the same place to shoot out I’d say
Yup. And what is around it, next to it and behind it has a big effect on the bass response. Do any of these cabs have DSP compensation for such? Often modern powered PA speakers have that kind of thing, and are most often initially designed to perform best on stands, which would make them too bassy if you put them on the floor.
For me it's either the Suhr M75 or Friedman ASM12
To me the Mission sounded best out of the FRFR"S. But overall I liked the Powered Kemper with the guitar cabinet. But I guess I'm biased because I run a Powered Kemper and a 112 Orange cab with a 90 watt Celestion Creme.
Gemini
3:15
5:06
Alto
3:33
5:26
Fried
3:54
5:48
L6
4:24
6:09
Real
4:42
Excellent video, gents, as well as fantastic commentary. To me, the Gemini 2 sounds "the best"; personally, for the price of single Gemini 2 stereo unit I got a pair of two Powercab Plus units and now enjoy stereo with nice spread in the room :)
Thanks!
And you don't throw out your back when you move them around.
The Friedman sounded more like thew Alto than the Mission. I have the Alto TS315 with a Boss GT-8. I don't have the bass problem because my patches a e.q to taste. I low cut at 165 or 200 hz. Boost my low mids at 500 or 800 hz +3db with a Q=1. The Suhr and Mission cabs are top end balanced.
I’m currently running my Friedman Dirty Shirley through a Tone Tubby cab and then also ( on the line out circuit obviously ) into an Ox and then on over to a Headrush FRFR 1x10. It sounds fantastic and I rarely even use this glorious 2x12 Tone Tubby anymore. The 1x10 Headrush is very reasonably priced too for the sound you’re getting.
Funny how we all go with modelers because we’re tired of hauling our heavy amps around and now the best sounding frfr cabs are boat anchors. Big fun
i like this kind of comparison where you'll mention right away if you hear the difference. Personally, i have the Alto 312 and i use it to play bass with.
Consistently keep liking the Line 6 in every video.
I’ve heard the mission in person with good stereo effects coming from a quad cortex and it’s ABSOLUTELY worth the price tag. I would say though, if you already have a good 2x12 cab, consider something like the fryette or synergy single unit power amps and wire up a second speaker jack to give your cab real tube stereo power and sound.
I’ve heard my Kemper like this with a VHT 50/2/50 and it was glorious. Doesn’t sound too bad with my power station but the VHT unit was next level and true stereo.
Edit: Well the Gemini II is well over $2000 now so yeah screw that. And none of the reverb sellers want to ship.
Since posting my comment, I've gigged with the new 2nd gen EV ZLX12 which I really like and it has an FRFR mode that makes it sound much more natural like a guitar cab than my 1st Gen ZLX12 that I've been using forever.
I've also gigged with the Fender FR12 and it's pretty decent and the top controls are handy for quick adjustments but I still think the Gen2 ZLX12 sounds better.
Haven't gotten to try the Friedman or Line6 yet.
I use a TS312 with my keyboard. I'm very happy with it. Especially for organ. The sound is rich and full and louder than I need. I paid $299 at Guitar Center about two years ago.
4:44 that was the best one... what amp is that? so much clarity
Any chance this type of shootout could be updated with a Headrush 112 & Kemper Kab in comparison to the Gemini 2?
The Alto represents the Headrush. They’re not earthshakingly different.
Subjectivity being an elusive metric, which FRFR cab is the MOST FRFR. Flatness and efficiency are measurable in objective terms using mics made specifically for calibration and equalization.
After trying a lot, the best solution for my personal monitor is a traditional cab 2x12 creamback, valve poweramp with cab off in the monitor output, the main outputs directly to FOH
By a wide margin I preferred the Mission Engineering - most open, organic, etc. Could shut my eyes and think I was hearing a guitar amp.
Great review HW, the Gemini might have been $1400 when you shot this but they are now over $2000 . Even used ones are over the new price you mention here.
Indeed. We are talking Tone King Sky King money here. And then the choice is very easy.
Here is the deal..... no matter which one you get, you will need to tweak it to the sound you like. You can get all of them to sound similar.. you might just have to change some of your modeled amp settings.
For Part 2 I would love to hear the QSC K8.2 & K10.2, Atomic CLR v2, Alto TS310, and the Yamaha DXR12.
I've run my Kemper and/or Atomic Amplifier 6 through the following: straight to the PA (Jensen 15" mains), Alto TS210, QSC K10, or Hughes & Kettner TM112 (cab emulation off on modeler). Most anything will work if you EQ your presets for what you've got. I found the Alto TS210 is more bassy compared to the QSC K10. Some MUST have the amp-in-the-room sound, but luckily I'm not that sensitive so any speaker will do.
Great! Yamaha DXR10 too... I use it and I like it.
I'd like to hear a Kemper with the QSC K10.2 or a K12.2.
I admit I skipped around and might have missed it but it seems a BETTER demo would have been to directly record a chord progression and THEN compare the FRFR's to that so you can tell how each cabinet colors the sound in relationship to that and not just to each other.
For those who plan to send a Kempner, Helix, etc. directly to front of house, it seems like the point of an FRFR speaker is to duplicate the front of house speaker tone as much as possible. If you pick the “best sounding” FRFR speaker and dial tones in through that, it might sound very different than what it sounds like in the house.
Totally agree, us guitar players get taken for a ride so often with "magic juice" "this r that feature". If you want to know what your tone is gonna be like in a venue, do a damn sound check with the band during rehearsal. I know you cant do that at some venues. Get a regular PA system. Please just do that. Lots cheaper and your tone will be closer and more reliable to what your ACTUAL CUSTOMERS are gonna here. If you are in your bedroom just jerking by yourself, no worries just get whatever you want.
normally if im doing a medium to small sized gig, i will use the same frfr as the front system...this way i know what i am grooving to is the same as the audience...i dont know how many times ive been groovin on stage thinkin the band is killin it, until i step out front and hear the mix...visa versa, ive dreaded to go out front to hear the mix due to the onstage sucking...only to find that the mix is awesome...pay that sound person with respect!
Thank you!!! Ive searched for this video andx was about to give up. New to the FRFR technology and been lost trying to figure it out. You are awesome! Thanks buddy. Line 6 plus I think for me... Cheers!!
What are your thoughts on the Headrush products? The new FRFR-108 is only $200! I want to get 4 haha massive stereo rig.
I have the headrush frfr cab which is just a rebradned alto, and it works great for my kemper, also works great as a talkbox monitor
There's a new kid on the Block and I think it's going to be a game-changer the Laney lfr-112... Laney has always been on the top of my list as a quality amp and cab Company
I use the Headrush 108 with my Helix, and although I'm not having a pop at you here as I hear this a lot....how can having too much Bass be an issue, or a negative, when all you have to do is go to Global EQ, and pull it back....problem/issue resolved. It's the same with the top end, just pull it back.....sorted. OMO.
I hate to say it, but you inadvertently made a commercial for running a Kemper through a guitar cab.
Yes, indeed.
I used to run a kemper through a pretty badass avatar cab. It's not good haha. I got rid of my kemper instead of just buying a mission FRFR, which I should have done to begin with.
I've seen quite a lot of videos on this subject. I'm always surprised people overlook the option to use a power amp (Crown/Behringer etc) and passive PA monitors/speakers/wedges. They are easy to setup for mono or stereo and you have a wide choice to suit different budgets. Plus you can set them up to give a wide stereo spread if you choose to use two speakers.
I'm using 2 Alto 210s you're right about the bass. I'm interested in two other solutions not mentioned in your review, the Xitone and the Atomic CLR. Any interest in reviewing those? I'm using a fractal FM3 live the unit..
Lastly great review! Will done. I really don't like it when people review gear and they're using a super overdriven amp it's really review of the amp not the speakers it's really review of the amp not the guitar You can't even tell what the guitar sounds like your review was just the opposite very well done thank you appreciate it
To do a fair stereo comparison to the mission cabinet, you would need to compare it to the line 6 supercab plus 212 stereo. First the weight - supercab.45lbs. Mission 70lbs. Second the fact that the supercab has the speaker simulation has more versatility and the simulations are very close to the original speaker. I have both the mission and the supercab 212 stereo. I do prefer the line 6 over the mission for the reasons above. In my opinion it sounds more like an amp in the room over the mission. Of course tone and preferences are of a personal taste.
I use a ALTO 310 with a Helix LT. Regarding the equalization, I only have to use a cut in the low frequencies and use the global eq. totally powerful for a stage or for play with metal drummer.
To truly appreciate the Powercab+ you really need to take advantage of all of the tools it gives you. First, the Powercab is expecting a line level signal so make sure your Kemper is not set to Mic Level signal. Using the Speaker models in the Powercab is great but you need to disable any cab modelling you may have in your modeler. As you stated, the Greenback sounds like a Greenback, etc. if you adjust the settings in your Kemper profile and tune that profile for use with the Powercab you will get optimal results.
The Powercab+ has a Direct Out that models the Powercab (and whatever Speaker Emulation you are running) being mic'd by several mic options at variable distances so you would never have to mic the Powercab in a live situation. You select a mic, and there are several popular dynamic, ribbon, and condenser mic options, distance from 1 to 12 inches, a low and high cut, and you also have +- 12db of gain to send to front of house. I have played the Powercab+ in a large venue setting with the direct Out sent to front of house and it sounds incredible but you really end up making it a part of how you program your modeler. You are now programming based on the Powercab being an integral part of the overall sound. In that sense, it does "color" the tone but in a real world situation, a 4x12 Marshall cabinet "colors" the tone of a Marshall amp and is an integral part of its sound as well.
So, in that case, you recomend the Powercab+?? I'm considering a Headrush frfr112 or the Powercab+. I can't make up my mind tho :(
Replaced an Atomic CLR with a Matrix GT1000FX and 2- 2X12 Xitone cabs. Couldn’t be happier.
3:10 for the tones
I'm using a fEARless F112 and F115 (12" and 15" neo-based LF drivers, respectively). Three-way passive cabinets with a LF driver, a Faital 5" mids and a tweeter that are FRFR with an affinity for bottom end when presented with it. My F112 will handle up to 800W (the F115 more) and weighs just 34 lbs. Generally flat response (these could easily be used for PA work) with little "baked in" sound, and they accept EQ easily.
If you haven’t, you should try the L3T Line 6, as it works great as single, stereo/dual mono and Wet-Dry-Wet, as active PA’s. They are like form fitting for the Helix, and great with the AxeFX and Kemper.
Where’s the power? Are these the 600 w powered kempers? What’s the power rating of the cabs? What about a bass?
Will any of these work with bass guitar and the QC?
I have the Freidman ASM 12 and sometimes wish I would have bought something a little bit lighter. For a person with a disability, this thing is a tank but it sounds pretty good. After hearing the comparisons on here where I think the Mission cab sounds best by far but it is heavy!
The Gemini es AWESOME !!! But too expensive 😟.....Here in Chile guess they are not available. What do think about Laney LFR 112 and Headrush 108 112?
Good video - keep doing these, you have done a great job on this. Thanks for sharing your opinions. Everybody hears something different.
Had a Freidman -too base-y . Have the Gem2 sick incredible
So I liked Suhr, but I still don’t understand some things. The Kemper is a head all in itself? Power amp and all? It can power a cabinet?
Is this really the same exact profile on each unit? How is it I haven’t been able to use any modeler profile on an FRFR and a guitar cab all the same? It may sound similar for me, but through real guitar speakers there’s something seriously wrong, it sounds crispy! Why?!
we would like an updated version. This time you guys should build a celestion spec f12-x200 cab and shoot it out against some high dollar frfr cabs....seriously.
Hi HW, I use a Gemini 1 which I love. For half the weight I don't miss the stereo for playing out. One time I was at a place where the electric was bad and we could not get a direct line form the Kemper without a huge buzz and we tried all the tricks. (I've been a studio engineer for 30+ years.) We ended up miking the Gemini 1 and it sounded incredible. I had people asking me how I got that tone. LOL
As a studio engineer one thing that never made sense to me was that I was expecting the FRFR (Gemini 1) to sound similar to my studio monitors when I am running the Kemper, or at least close but it doesn't really. LOL I even mess around with Pure Cab settings but it still doesn't sound like my Gemini 1. Although I do turn the FRFR knob to 50% because the flat FRFR doesn't sound as good flat and that probably is some of the difference I'm hearing. But I still think it should sound better running into my DAW than it does.
I use my mesa recto 4x12 straight cab with the powered rack kemper and the mesa dual rack profile sounds great with a cab sim on or off and i use active fishman modern fluence humbuckers in a prs ebay custom build solid body guitar so that with the 1.10 mm hard pick dunlop helps for punk and metal tones. I also have always thought the straight cabs have more bass responses on the open drop c chugs on a good, heavy, distorted gain amp profile. I also get great tones for a mesa clean with automatic phaser for a few songs, bad cat hi gain for a 90s bush like tone, vox ac30 hand wired tone for pretty cleans with a volume swell effect option and a fender twin reverb for that mid range over drive crunch tone before going into heavy distortion.
What happened to the Scumback M75s after the dirty sound? I liked that.
I think you Guys missed the clean sound through the last cab...the Suhr I think .
I use a 1000 watt QSC. It’s clear, punchy and can get louder than I will ever need. I want to hear what they’re hearing out front. 🔊🤠👍
Would be very interested in how a Bareface Audio FRFR speaker would have performed. They are expensive but unique.
I might be writing this to early but is there a power supply you can buy for a kemper, helix, Headrush,Axfx where you can use it with a regular 2x12 or 4x12 cab.
Yamaha DXR12 or DXR15 are quite common choices for FRFR, the 15 can move serious air and can give a pretty solid cab like feel. I don't know what was the sound level on these when you tried it, but turn them up. I bet the Friedman sounds a lot more open on reharsal/gig levels.
HW , wait till you use 2 mission stereo cabs and 2 kempers, massive wide field...really good example on the gemini man well done
Great video, thanks. I liked the Mission Engineering best, but Line 6 is the best value.
I'm not sure what you mean as to why a stereo cab is important is important when most setups are going to FOH where stereo channels are separated. The only real way a stereo setup in a cab will effectively feel stereo is if the speakers are angled away from each other which will reflect the sound off of opposite sides of the room.
I thought the scumbag sounded the best, and you didn't mention it at the end or how much it cost
Had a little extra breakup fo sho!
Tried a couple of line 6 FRFR speakers when I bought my Kemper. Didn’t like either and ended up with powered Kemper and a orange 1x12 guitar cab. Turn off cab simulator and it’s so much better than an FRFR. Does it colour the sound? Maybe, but that’s not a bad thing. For recording, feel free to record direct with cab sim on, but for live play, a proper cab is best in my opinion
How would you compare a powered kemper into a guitar cab vs an unpowered plugged into the venues PA? Im a kemper noob and deciding which to buy
Unleash The Fury I come from the standpoint that the feeling is just wrong on an FRFR cab. To say a guitar cab colours the sound is pointless as all these different FRFR speakers sound different to each other, so they must also colour the sound slightly. I only tried the line 6 ones in the shop, and it didn’t feel like I was playing a guitar amp, felt a bit like playing plugged directly into a computer audio interface. Soon as I switched to a guitar cab, I was playing An amp again! And that to me is really important in getting the right feeling when playing. If you practise at home, a proper cab will sound and feel better and you can still turn it down low volume. And the guitar cab I got was cheaper than the FRFR so the extra I spent on the powered Kemper rather than unpowered, I saved on the cab.
Jake Fowler ok but what about in a live show situation with a band? Ive watched my friend play a solo show with backing tracks and his unpowered kemper sounded amazing through the venues PA. I dont doubt the awesomeness of a powered kemper through a cab, however. Im just concerned about the live aspect with a full band
Unleash The Fury when in a loud band and through a PA, your probably not gonna notice a difference, I would plug directly into pa in that situation, rather than mic a guitar cab and run the mic feed to pa. I believe you can go direct to pa, and also use a guitar cab as a reference speaker on stage so either way, there is no downside to the powered Kemper over the unpowered one.
I use a Gemini 1 which I love. I wish he had included it in the video. It is lighter and less expensive than the Gemini 2 and of course, it sounds fantastic. It came highly recommend to me before I bought it by some top notch engineers.
I can't get my Gemini 1 sounding good compared to studio monitors, any tips?
Are you using a Helix?
@@MrJamesRose I'm using a Kemper. Studio monitors can vary greatly but I actually talked about this in my other comment on this video. I noticed the Kemper sounds different through my monitors but the Gemini sounds closer to a guitar cab and I sometimes move the knob from full FRFR to 50% cabinet. I usually tweak my profiles to the Gemini1 rather than my studio monitors. I can always EQ in my DAW to get closer t0 the Gemini1 sounds. Fact is that studios monitors sound very different from model to model and so do FRFR's. If you mike guitar cabs you'll notice the sound isn't exactly the same through your monitors as it is coming out of the amp. So it's the same principle.
As I expected, I liked the guitar cab the best. The Mission Gemini was my favorite of the FRFR cabs but 70 pounds? Forget that. I might as well just play my Kemper through my Soldano 4x12 which is what I do now. I have the power head and it sounds great through my 4x12 with G12H30s. Before I bought my Kemper everyone talked about what a compromise it was to play through a guitar cab. I totally disagree. I think it sounds great.
thing is your presets will never sound the same in a live setting where you don't have the cab you tweaked them for. What if it's not available for some reason?
1 great sound is better than 500 average ones.
I liked the Misson Engineering Gemini. It sounds great - The Suhr with the Scumbacks is great also but a little too bright for me, but I identify better with the sound of the Gemini with that Kemper profile, but the price is too high. The others sound muddy or 'dark', like muffed or something. Not to my taste. Moneywise I'll go with the HeadRush FRFR12 for around $320. Sounds good, to be honest. Kemper Kone Kabinet is very cool, and sounds awesome, yet does not have an active version for the Kemper Stage.
I though a bit about getting an FRFR. Then I used my old Marshall Valvestate 8008 and pimped a 2x12 LaRoqua cab with 2 Redbacks and never looked back. This comparison proofs to me that as a rock player, a good cab with my favorite Celestions is all I need for a, mmh, "normal" rock guitar sound. Cheers!
Enjoyed the video but a little disappointed you didn’t include the Atomic CLR Neo. Considered by many to be the best.
Mission sounded best and a close second was the lin6. but that was my take the Friedman was kind of thin in the clean setting.
Would studio monitors sound better than these ? Which monitors are the ones to buy?
the frfr cab is just a part of the setup. i use a sm57 and get an even fuller sound. if you want the kemper to sound like the real deal, you gotta do it.
With which cab were the patches created? Wouldn't that bias one cab over the others?
Should they not be using the exact same amp (and profile) each time? Why deploy 5 amps?
I kinda would like a QSC 10’s or 12’s review. The new QSC’s have settings for modelers I’m thinking?
They wouldn't need a setting for modelers IMO, those things would easily smoke every single one of these offerings because they are voiced for a flat response in a live environment, but they also have the price to match. a couple of K12's would be a dream setup and honestly overkill for most any guitarist. But I would love it and I'm thinking of getting a pair of K10's for this use. I use a friend of mine's system and use K12's as floor monitors and K153's as mains along with some 18" subs on the regular and absolutely love, love, love them. I've also used a pair of k12's as mains for a small gig and it rocked a whole corner of a city block. It's hard to beat those things. I've used all kinds of speakers in my lifetime and those are right up there with my favorites like D&B Audiotechnik and Meyer Audio, and Funktion One. D&B Audiotechnik excelled at natural acoustic tones (the ones I used had real wood cabs which I think is responsible for the response and natural sound I was hearing, barely had to eq anything at all) and the Meyer excelled at electric tones and the F1 excelled at electronica (which, incidentally, is crazy because the F1 at literally more than a mile away sounded crystal clear like a tiny HiFi Bluetooth speaker playing perfectly balanced music, which is unlike any PA I've ever heard), but the QSC is just an all around great sounding, great value. They have definitely made an impression on me. A couple of K10s would be better than any of these in this videos in my opinion, I bet you're thinking the same thing since you brought it up. (Sorry if I'm ranting but I get excited about audio stuff, happy playing and holidays and many more good times to you sir)
So what exactly is the point of an FRFR cab? Is it to be able to run different speaker/cab sims to make it sound like the cab/speakers that you want? Is that the main point?
Laney frf or kabinet? I´m poor
I have the headrush 1 x 12 and the 1x8. The 1x8 is a little less bassy and a little tighter. I use 1 x8 for guitar and the 1x12 for my electronic drums. They actually both sound great once you adjust the eq a bit. I play a lot of metal. I think if I had to run a line in straight to front of house from my helix I would probably run a separate eq to match them somewhat.
My question is .... shouldn’t we be getting those Cab sounds from the modeler, that it should already be shaping the sound?with that question, the “cab” setting on the Gemini was fantastic. Just that price.... out of my price range.
Have you tried Accugroove FRFR’s?
Matrix NL-12 or... 2 of them for stereo. They weigh like 17lbs each and are LOUD!