+Dawi But don't call it a car review when you talk tyres all the time. The fact that they draw conclusions on the cars on the basis of the tyres is ridiculous.
+sam spezza Put the Civic's tires on the Megane, and it's going to be just ever so slightly slower, not a massive difference, and just as usable. On top of that, Megane is clearly the better car to drive, that was an obvious conclusion in every comparison so far. Also I don't see the Civic being compared to Porsches and Ferraris when it come to picking best drivers cars of the year, which many car magazines, including EVO, does every year. Anyway, this is my last reply to you. As a mechanical engineer and someone with thousands of km's of track driving, I feel like talking to someone without a drivers license whose driving experience is limited to a playstation game is kind of a waste of time.
+sam spezza they are factory spec, honda can propose a more extreme version with semi slick tyres, not the case so far, Megane still win a the end, you can still love the Civic, does not change the result
+Rottensteam That's bullshit and proof you've never even been in your. Low quality interior? That's why reviewers compared it to Audi's when it came out ?
+Rottensteam Haha...even more obvious proof of your lies. All the buttons in it have a nice "click" to them, not loose at all, and you definitely can't move the whole center console. Stop spreading bullshit around and making yourself look like an idiot.
+derbigpr500 hahahaha omg I can tell you've never felt a good interior lol. Just because they "click" doesnt mean they feel good. And yes you can move the center cobsole around. Lmao keep living in your dream where Renault's have good interiors. You get what you pay for.
Just to nitpick here, they probably could've gotten the performance without a Turbo, it's the emmisions that ruin the NA party. Also, I believe the 1.3 seconds difference is entirely down to tires. 3 Miles an hour through the Chicane is huge. The gap would've been bigger if the Honda didn't claw back some time under power. It'd be interesting to see what the Civic could do with identical tires.
exactly honda is the better car that renault has twice less the extras and comfort stuff that the honda has I'm ordering type r next week and cant wait for the build
Civic's 7:50 on the Nurburgring was an unofficial time, done with a preproduction car that was not entirely stock. It also accelerated faster than in any other Civic Type R acceleration video. You can see that clearly, and I've been saying that the Type R has 350hp+ in that Nurburgring run since the video was first released, even in uphill sections on the Nurburgring, it's faster than on flat acceleration runs that can be found all over youtube. Just saying, it's time on Nurburgring is not relevant, even Honda themselves have said that. Now the real production car might even be faster, but might be slower too. In any case, officially, Megane still holds the record because it was a car exactly like the one you get in a showroom if you buy it today, Honda wasn't. Neither was the Seat before that, in fact, you still can't buy a Seat in that configuration. Besides, let's not forget one simple fact. Civic Type R is a brand new car. Leon Cupra is a brand new car. Megane RS is at this point based on a 7 year old hatchback. Those guys had 7 years of time to match the Megane, yet, failed to do so. Renault is one generation ahead of anyone else, and has been for a long time, every Megane that came out since the Megane II RS was the fastest and held the record, consistently for 10+ years. So... we all know how the real king of hot hatches is. It's just bad timing here that we compare brand new cars that came to the market in 2015 to a car that is in it's last year of production. In fact, the new Megane is already out now, and next year a brand new Megane RS comes out, with 300hp+ and 4 wheel steering...that will go around Nurburgring in about 7:40 probably.
+derbigpr500 when you read about it more the reason it's not production car because they added a roll cage (with rubber fitment to do not add to the total strenght) and removed the stereo because of the additional weight of the roll cage. That was all modification.
they also had a pro driver ... hence why the acceleration difference . .. he had time to test the car and knows how to launch the car ... don't forget Honda themselves said they are willing to accept the challenge of a car setting a faster time ... because they are ready to beat the time they set
actually the car was completely stock as per what autocar stated apart from the rolecage......the mods etc were all rumours. the type r is the best hot hatch available.
wow many Type R fanboys being bitter at it lost and complaining about the tires yet not only the Megane comes with them stock (so it is a fair comparaison from this perspective) they forget that the Type R has about 35hp more and MORE than 50Nm of torque.
+InitialDAmine Don't forget Honda is a brand new car and Megane has been on the market in pretty much identical form (10hp power increase and new dampers and tires aside) for almost 8 years, and it's actually out of production as we speak because the new generation Megane comes out to the market now.
If you're doing an expire meant or testing two separate things then it makes sense to keep things constant and the variables the same for both. In this case everything was the same besides the tires, which if you're testing which car is faster than another, then having that variable the same for both cars would be better. However if you're only considering factory options then yes, the Megane is better. In the end it just so happens that the Megane has the better factory options.
+InitialDAmine And 80 kg more weight in the Civic. Did you even watch the video? It wasn't that informative but the driver told about this fact. The Renault hast no rear seats but a massive strut brace.
+SlickRickOne facts lets talk about them since you seem to assunate that 80kgs is a real big deal compared to the power and torque figures, the power to weight ratio is in favor of the Civic and by a marging, and the torque to weight ratio is even further in favor of the Civic, so no matter how you look at it both cars were tested STOCK and the Renault won, simple as that.
+Shea Samuels you test two things in their stock condition which is the case here full stop. if we use your own logic, both car should have same suspensions, same power, same torque, same weight ............ The Michelin Sport cup 2s are STOCK with the Trophy R.
Very interesting video. So tires made all the difference in the end. For track purposes I guess you should have track tires, but given que explanation given by Dan, those tires in the Megane are bad for daily driving. Trade-offs, but solvable.
+Eric Xavier I think the only situation where these tires might be a problem is when it's raining really hard. For the rest, on public roads, you don't really come close to the limits of grip anyway. They are a lot more expensive though, and you probably have to replace them more often too.
+Peter Timowreef This test did clearly show, tires are important. Most of the tires in that category use a soft compound that is great for grip, but in cold temperatures they get very hard. So if the temperature is is near freezing it will feel like you're driving on ice even when the road is dry. You can get tires in this class that do fairly well in the wet, they just hate the cold. These tires do tend to cost a little more, but nothing crazy when comparing to other high end all seasons, where they really hit your pocket book is in milage. Grippy tires don't last as long as harder tires. You can get 2 sets of wheels and run winter tires/wheels and summer tire/wheels, for the best of all performance. Or move to a desert that is hot and dry then go as grippy as you can.
Interesting comparison, yet without much relevance. Type R is fully equipped, even with some real luxury and safety features. It has perfectly streetable tires, yet they do very decent on the track. The RS Trophy in comparison is put together much more without compromise, sacrificing a lot of daily driving comfort and using tires which are at the edge of what I would consider a streetable tire. Even the fact that you have to warm them up shows that this is not an appropriate comparison. This video would have much more value if it would have been a normal megane RS which is way more similar when it comes to equipment and tires. Still impressive performance from the RS Trophy, but when you want to have a fast daily that does not make compromises everywhere, get the Type R or the normal RS. The Trophy is for real enthusiasts, who are on the track frequently. So overall for me that comparison (although I think it's bad right from the get-go) has 2 winners: The RS Trophy for the relentless track machine, and the Type R, which is a wonderful daily driver and still stupid fast if you want to put it on the track. And by the way, I would like to see that video again with the Civic on the Michelin Tires, that'll change the picture most certainly.
The suspension of the RS is definitely very good, but don't underestimate the Type R here. I've driven it recently and these electronic adjustable dampers are pretty pretty awesome. Not a bumpy ride, but very planted. Honda put a whole lot of effort in this suspension.
+Markus Krause You sir are totally on point! Same tire and keep everything on factory stock - then we have the rough idea about what is what! A car with 80's like interior and sticky tire does 1.5 faster than a sport groceries getter. Impressive? You Renault guys can keep that megan - record holder - any day. I'll chose the 1.5s slower one and see how you feel everytime you got the new tire just to get a 1.5s faster after warming up!
+Markus Krause If you want a fast daily, the Golf R, Focus RS and BMW M135i are the cars you want, not the Type R for this price. The Type R makes very little sense. It's far too expensive! The basic one costs £4k more than a fully loaded Megane 275 Nav! That's A LOT of money. It's not £4k better, or £6k with the Honda's option pack. It costs about as much as the aforementioned AWD or RWD rivals, isn't as fast especially in all weather/real world road conditions that you point to as being important. They are all superb driver's cars particularly the Ford, which has the most bang for buck, much more power than this, much more sophisticated drivetrain, incredible reviews etc. The Type R isn't as fun as the Megane either really, you may as well just buy a standard last of the line Megane 275 Nav. It's MUCH cheaper, it'll still easily be as fast, and it's probably a better everyday car than the Type R if anything, despite being pretty old now. For example ride compliance is amazing. Honda failed big time here. They positioned the Type R at a price where it sits against much more exciting and better value AWD or 4WD cars. Compared to FWD rivals like the Megane or say Leon 280 which are hugely capable cars that are still pretty much on par with it, for much less money, and have been around for years. The Honda hasn't moved the bar at all despite being newer and more expensive. If a new Honda can't beat essentially a dated Renault due for replacement then I don't see much hope for it when Renault finally replace the Megane in the next year or so.
Wow. What a review. "The Megane has the type R covered"? Really? So on a mickey mouse track in the dry after a bunch of warm up laps it can beat it. Congratulations Renault - you built a brilliant car there. Of course putting on tyres like that completely screws it up as a road car since they're rubbish when they're cold (more often than not), almost dangerous in the wet and from experience of such tyres I would say after a few heat cycles will be ready for the bin. Put the Honda on equal tyres and it will leave the Megane for dead. Or put the Megane on realistic tyres and it loses it's massive grip advantage. Either way it's a bit of a sidestep to making a good car if you go to the lengths of ruining it as a road car for lap times. I'm honestly starting to think a lot of these reviews aren't worth watching as they're hardly a full or fair test. Before they even start you can pick the winner by which one is faster round an asda car park.
+hung huge You're such a child! It's pathetic. The honda's just a load of shite - it's never going to match renault, who've been making the best hot hatches since the early 90s.
hung huge Reliability, build quality, and place of origin have never had anything to do with how good a hot hatch is. Renault have made the best hot hatches for 25 years. You want an expensive, high quality product you don't buy a hot hatch, because that was never the point of them.
Malc180s Yeah because what I really want in my hot hatch is to walk as often as drive, listen to it rattling around when it does decide it wants to work and tell everyone how it can get round a go kart track on sticky tyres slightly more quickly than other hatches. Presuming it's not broken that day. Renault used to make some good cars. Now and for the last 10+ years they're a joke. At speed they're nervous and twitchy, they're built like old skodas (only don't last as long) and most times on the road they don't seem to go as well as all the reviews suggest. If I want a quality product why wouldn't I buy a hot hatch? Audi, VW, Honda, BMW, Mercedes, etc all seem to be able to make cars that go well and aren't unreliable rubbish the rest of the time. What's Renaults excuse again? It's cheap? Put a Dacia badge on it then.
Well, as much as i agree to the fact that ring times aren't very relevant and/or are achieved (mostly) by cheating ... You should really put those cup tires on the type R and try again.
+detaart Why don't we chip the Megane by 40bhp too , you know, make it even? You have to review from stock , otherwise where does the modding end? My Old Modded Corrado VR6 will piss on both these cars, but it's modded to hell so should never be compared to any stock car. The Megane gets those tyres stock and they reviewed exactly what you buy, regardless the Focus RS is going to destroy the Civic on the road, in every situation.
***** I'm not expecting anything of it. I'm just observing the fact that it got quite close on a much less aggressive tire ... It would be interesting to run both of these cars on the same tires.
Shame the Civic is a 5 door school-run car in the end. Why the fuck Honda were too lazy to design a lighter, better looking 3-door chassis I will never understand.
ProductofNZ Fair point but my point still stands. Just lazy. Completely ruins the whole idea of a hot hatch adding an extra 2 doors I think! Essentially it's just a school run car with an engine conversion and body kit! (Not denying it's an amazing bit of engineering and an extremely fast car btw).
+James McKay that's essentially it. I see what you're getting at but the reality is that the people that buy these things will be utilizing them in everyday life and they need to be practical. These aren't 911s or Mclarens. Of course they will develop them for a market because they are a business and at the end of the day they still need to make a profit.
EVO magazine UK. December 2015. Honda Civic Type R 1'24.9 (Cont. SP6), Renault Megane Trophy-R 275 1'23.6 (Mich. SC2), Seat Leon SC Cupra PP 280 Manual 1'23.1 (Mich. SC2). No video???
I forget the Meg has been around for a while now. Taken other manufacturers a long while to catch up to what they produced. Fuck knows what monstrosity they will produce next time after what they did to the RS Clio
is this bash the type R video?? he owns a renault or got payed to do this, only video in the world that makes the new civic type R sound bad.. what a joke..
I don't care what these renault fan boys say. If you're planning to track your type r, the basic norm would be to change the tyres to stickier, track proven ones... bam.. there goes the renault. You're comparing a car built in theory for the track in which you will sacrifice driveability when raining or cold tires? The civic can be a track car and a full practical, streetable car regardless of the weather conditions, not to mention all the commodities. Yes is unfair comparing a much newer car to one that's been out for years, well so it's comparing performance with such a basic and fundamental factor (tyres).
+Johnny Salvattore completely agree, semi slicks is a defacto standard change when you start heading to track days its simply normal to get them, as they dont rip to pieces like normal tyres and make a massive difference, i would never waste my money on a shitbox french car, Honda is such a higher quality brand in everyway.
Megane is 7 years old, 2016 is the last year for the 3rd model. It's normal Renault make a brutal version like R26. Sure this Honda is fantastic. I hope they continu to develop its.
+alfamonk I think you're seriously underestimating how much difference tyres can make. You could run a 10 year old Type R on the stickiest semi slicks you can buy and that will eat the Megane. It's obvious the Megane would lose if the Type R ran Cup 2s.
Sure stock to stock setup, the megane is better. But they forgot what aftermarket support is. Soon, Mugen, Spoon, J'S Racing, Feels and the rest of the Honda aftermarket support companies will rise up to the challenge and push the FK2R beyond its stock capabilities....then i will wish your megane goodluck. Smart racers look beyond the stock box and potential in a platform. In time, the FK2R will have the Megane "covered".
The main difference is that the Civic type r will still be roaring around in ten years time, whilst the Renault will most likely have blown up/fallen apart/ died because of an electrical gremlin. My C T R is 13 years old clocked 170k + miles and still drives beautifully and zips along nicely (although it obviously can't compete with modern equivalents) and handles brilliantly. I like the Renault and I'll admit that my gf's megan coupe does change direction very well, but the build quality is crap in comparison with German and Japanese cars.
We know that "the ring" time was down to foul play, removing the a/c unit putting in a rollcage for stiffness and removing the stereo isnt exactly a production car anymore. The fact is i wouldnt have either of these cars, with the type R you got a ridiculous wing on the back and with the Megane in this format you got a silly 4 point harness which would annoy me every single day. For me the best FWD on sale at the moment is the Leon Cupra, Very nearly as fast as these without being stupid looking like the type R or having an interior slightly more luxurious than a toilet like the Megane. Easily the best FWD road car.
+john jackson The quickest is in this circuit comparison by EVO is the Leon Cupra 280 SC Performance Pack manual gearbox, fitted with Michelin Cup2, test by EVO 1min 23 sec 1 tenth. EVO magazine says surprise result!
If the Type R had the same tires it would demolish the Megane there too. That Type R is a beast, it even takes down M3s and RS3s... Incredible machine by Honda.
Basically it's just a battle of tyres! In a daily driver which is driven in wet conditions third of the car-lifetime i wouldn't want to have CUP-tyres!
to truly appreciate the better chassis and drivetrain tyres need to be control tyres, same for both cars, same track,same day, then you know which car is the better car, other wise this is just bullshit
'Summary of the Comments below" for the people who cant be arsed reading them... I am a Renault Fan boy I am a Honda fanboy My Renault is faster than yours's NO! My honda is faster than yours My Honda doesnt have your tires...unfair! My Renault doesnt have your HP...unfair! You don't know what you are talking about! NO, you dont know what you are talking about! Honda's are rubbish, No, Renault's are rubbish. Rinse & Repeat x1000
So Less is More,Well done RenaultSport,Honda cant Inovate has it seems,more Power,a car which just come out and still couldnt beat a MeganeRS from 2010 Base.
well that's embarassing. Forget the whining about tyres: each manufacturer specifies the tyre. All this does is show that Honda's marketing monkeys missed a trick. It's Honda's choice to go cheapskate. ..
+alfamonk - Really? I'd rather have affordable everyday tyres than for track racing which I'm never going to do. Even if I did, how much would I? Out of 9,750 of yearly driving, maybe 250 on the track? Give me everyday tyres every time.
the only problem with the Megane is looks. I normally overlook this for performance but it's an ugly car. Civic all the way lol. I wouldn't be in the market for either but if I was forced I'd go Civic for looks.
In the end the video compared tires and not cars. I don't really care about ring times, but I would like to have seen a proper comparison with the same tires fitted to both cars. Love the Megane, had a 265 Trophy and loved every moment in it but I have to recognize that the Honda would most likely be faster.
When will these reviewers learn and put the same tyres on the cars? So obvious, yet so ... dumb. And yes, I understand, that these are factory cars with their factory tyres, but if you took the Honda to the track, the first thing you'd do would be to put some proper rubber on it, naturally.
+Szilárd Hompoth Well it is not their cars, they just borrow them from Honda or Renault.. Buying a set of cup 2s just for a laptime is probably to expensive to do..
+Rickard Nilsson You are right in that. And it wouldn't be a 'problem' if they were simply doing reviews or other kind of comparisons. But when it comes down to lap times, and which car is the fastest, you simply cannot have accurate results without striving to provide the same conditions for both cars. And the tires play a HUGE part in that. Still, great production value :)
Hm. I don´t really agree, because the cars are sold with those tires. If you buy the car, that is how the car will be on track. And if they would change the tires, why not the exhaust? A lot of people do that. As long as they let us know what tires they got I think it is as good as it can be. :)
The Megane is still an impressive contender in the market after all this time, even as a Honda fanboy myself, Renaults hot hatch credentials are undeniable. Also, can't blame Honda for moving with the times when it comes to using turbo power. Oddly enough though, there seems to be a benchmark figure of 300 whp and 200+ lbs ft of torque from those building normally aspirated variants of the Honda 2.4l K series motors. That probably equates to around 320-330 at the flywheel, but i guess it is much easier to chalk up numbers and low end grunt with a turbo setup while keeping the hippies happy. Saying that, aftermarket K series turbo builds produce stupidly high numbers. Can't help but feel car companies obstinately ignore the refinements made in aftermarket tuning in favour of using new technology simply for the sake of doing so.
I had the Megane RS when it was really hot. 4Years ago...loved the Turbo Punch. But they ruined the Design. Hope the new One will be hot again. And the Honda...sure nice to drive...but it looks like Pain in the Eyes.
This video is a joke, the cars are not evenly matched. One car has super sticky tyres while the other one has fairly standard ones. That is like Usain Bolt racing Danny Devito over 100 meters.
+SaintToSinner87 Well - The tests are done as the cars come from factory. Honda did not choose to put cup 2 tires on their car, so EVO cant do that either. The Megane is on Öhlins suspension as well, should they put that on the Civic as well? Honda most likely did their ring times on different tires, but chose not to put them on their road going customer car, not EVO's fault.
Yeah, you made the exact point I made, just a bit better! And yes, Seat did the same thing. And they later on made a kind of "track pack" available to order, with lighter rims, cup 2 tires and 4 pot brembo brakes.
sam spezza You are absolutely correct. But I dont think most people buy a trophy to use on the road, but to use it as a second car, a track day car. But this test is on a track, and this particular track suited the Megane better. For road driving, the Civic is probably a much better choice. But Id go for the megane anyways, its more badass. Free of choice though, and restricted to FWD, I would choose a GTI performance pack (and that is actually what I currently drive)
+SaintToSinner87 I understand your point but its more like Usain Bolt in running spikes, and Usain Bolt in running shoes...also those tires are a factory option so the Renault was using what it has for its purpose (the track)...seems pretty fair. sounds like you want to watch a Type-R vs a Type-R where the Type-R wins?
I cant belive they are still saying that Type R is the fastest around Ring.Honda is really nice and fast but they should admit it already,they cant beat Renault and that's a fact,new RS is around a corner,it will be in a totaly different league....
+matrixzr In exactly same EVO comparison 3 cars together, the Leon SC 280 Cupra with Cup 2 tires was the fastest 1'23,1 sec. Half second faster than RS Trophy-R. EVO says surprise result. Surprise? and no video for it? is no popular for EVO?
+Juana Moreno Piña Well we cant take these results for granted,there are a lot of factors we have to consider,I would just like to hear from Honda on this,they are still silent about it because that video where Type R alegedly broke the record is apparently official in their minds
put matching tires on BOTH CARS and lets see some numbers. Im sure they used what they came with.. but to get proper numbers it starts with fitting matching tires
The EK9 is quicker than a Williams and 172 despite only being a 1.6. The DC2 is quicker than a 182 and as quick as a megane r26. The EP3 is quicker than a 182. The DC5 is quicker than a 182 and as quick as a megane r26 despite no turbo and quicker than a 197 or clio 200. I'm pretty sure the only time where Honda has been slower is during the FN2 years but Japan got the FD2 who's chassis is head and shoulders above anything Renault has to offer. The only problem is that most Type R owners are chavs who haven't got a clue how to drive except for some of the imports.
Steve W If you listen to what they say they basically blame it on the tyres. Plus it's a Trophy R which is hardly a road car. Perform the same modifications on the Type R and it'll eat the Trophy R for breakfast.
Tires this tires that but why should I take it for granted that this particular driver extracted the maximum out of both cars producing a reliable and representative time? Oh, and what tire pressures did he put on those tires? Or maybe it makes no difference? And this is not Nurburgring, it's a different track with different characteristics. Sooooooo whatever.
There was no foul play! all statements like Honda admitting it wasn't the exact civic and also the tire comparison. if you want it fair...use the same tires. good review though. I'm a Type R fan for life! :)
Actually no comparison. The Honda has the more modern direct injection engine that not only gives you more power and torque but also gets better gas mileage. You could also put stickier track tires in the Type R and improve your lap times even further. Lastly, the Honda looks sexier.
Ik like seeing this two, becaus they are very simular. Unlike a VW Golf GTi/R or a Seat Leon Cupra, that looks just like any other hatchback, these two are much more like 'practical sportscars'. They look exact like how they perform: outragious! ;)
To everyone that says "should have been on same tyres" well.....it wasn't! Nor did the Megane have the same power as the Civic. Heck if we complain about tyres lets make everything the same and then its Civic versus Civic which is a very fair test! lol
numerous times Evo has said tyres can make or break a lap time and so you go against your own advice by invalidating the like for like comparison here. oh and you forgot the 4th car under 8 mins around the 'Ring .. the Cupra ST
+altern8ive It's a race between two stock cars. The Megane comes with better tires stock so that's how it went faster. The Honda has more power but I don't see you calling foul on that aspect.
The Megane is an awesome car (used to have one), but this is an unfair comparison, semi slicks vs road sport tyres, plus one with a roll cage and other doesn't. I think the standard RS275 trophy, would've done the same time as the Civic Type R. Anyways, both MONSTER track cars. Both would be AWESOME fun but you know what I wouldn't want to own either as a daily, they're just too rough on city roads. (reason why I sold my megane)
haha does anyone else feel like this video was meant to spawn a comment section battle and pile up the views haha by the way they are both great cars, just depends on what you need to do with said car. everyday driving the civic might be a better option
I think I saw this in Evo few months ago or maybe in an other magazine but the Megane Trophy-R set its record while the Nordschleife was wet at some point ! But power difference is also a really important fact at Nurburgring !
So much doubts on the end,didn't understand why!!!!!!! The Honda on Nurburgring must have different conditions,drivers he said......... Schmuck!! From the beginning that it's perceptible that he prefers the MEGANE so he went on denigrating the CIVIC!!!!!!! OHH Mr driver,do you know what is impartiality,justice and fairness!!?? No.....Didn't though so...... Well it's hard for this wanna be (race driver) to understand the difference between 275 hp and 310 hp on nurburgring!! Go on and drive some bicycles or skates....
I grew up in a generation of Godzillas, Silvias, Evos, naturally aspirated Type-Rs and ram-raiding WRXs. Always wanted one of these cars and came close many a time to buying one in my early 20s but 2 things always held me back - police attention and theft. Thank God I was prudent which probably saved me lots of speeding tickets, loss of license, killing myself/others, theft and high insurance premiums. I now look at the Type-R equipped with turbo, my boyhood youth salivating as he always wanted a turbo on a Honda, but the man in me says Megane 275R all the way. Ever since i switched to European hot hatches over the past 12 years, I'll never look back at Japanese cars again. Sure enough i miss the electrical and engine reliability of Jap cars, including the lower maintenance costs, but in terms of pure driver engagement with machine, nothing beats a Renault. I've had a Peugeot GTI-180, Renault Cup 182, BMW Z3, VW Golf Gti. I can tell you the Cup 182 was the ugliest car I ever owned but it was the best to drive. The handling was precise, nimble and came with a terrific seating position. I'm now looking at buying a 2015 model RS275. Better to wait til the new shape comes out for a price drop. What a great value car. Boyhood voices muted for good.
Tires and track plus "Professional Driver" needed. Performance x Styling x Longevity "engine" x Space x Built x Pricing x Etc. Overall? Honda Civic Type R Wins all. ✔️ Hands Down 🙌🏽
Less weight,sticky trackday tires....should he expect a different result? As for the Nur times....i think the long straights would provide and advantage for the TypeR but again there are even more corners that would favored the Megane,so i don't think either of them has an advantage. I call BS on most Nur times unless i'm 100% sure the car is STOCK and the tires are not specifically made for the track.
cup racing tyres v road tyres... for a short twisty track....and be taken seriously...rofl You should have just fitted snow chain's and filled the Honda up with diesel....wouldn't have made your comparison any worse...Conti's wtf.
Is Honda a big fan of the GTR Nismo? I found the color in the Civic especially those red lines are exact the same as the Nismo. The Cvic that lap Nurburgring have no AC, stereo and front passenger seat. They also added a roll cage, so no, it's not a stock car. It weights much less Fun fact: Honda is stupid enough to claim the roll cgae doesn't gain any rigidity..... The Civic Type R uses a much closer gear ratio transmission and more powerful engine compare to Renault, so it might be quicker, however, more under steering. More under steer= less acceleration, it's like the Corvette, more power less tire= drift off the turn= lack of acceleration. Honda should learn more from Nissan. The Renault is much better in corner with the cup 2 and less weight, the car turns better and accelerate off turns better, also more positive caster gives much better balance between under and over steer at mid corner. I'm not too sure, but I guess the Type R is using a torque converter. I just don't get the point of why a FWD want the rear to stay on track..... The Renault 275 uses mechanical limited slip differential. So in conclusion, the Renault is more of a FWD track car. Cup 2 tires, much steeper rear caster and a MLSD= greater maneuverability.
Love all the butthurt Honda bro's. You can pull this Megane off the showroom floor with Cup 2 tyres. OHH But they're "dangerous," LOL. Standard issue on a GT3-RS softies. Someone call the whambulance.
I wish we had Renault in America. They quit selling here 1987. At least the U.S. will FINALLY get the Honda Civic Type R next year. Until now, we've only had the Si as the top performing Civic.
the main reason the Civic Type R was faster because it was a preproduction testmule as Honds clearly CLAIMED in the northloop video so it des not and never hold the Northhloop FWD PRODUCTION record
DEADLY RIVALS: expensive Michelin tyres Versus slightly cheaper Continental tyres. Both r great cars, but I dont know why you don't test them on similar tyres though. It's like a no brainer. Unless you get paid to do it like so.
The Type-R looks vicious in black.Why weren't the cup tyres used on the civic to make the comparison more even.We all know as gear heads,in competition tyres makes a light years worth of difference whether it's WRC,Touring car,F1 ect. tyres play a major role in winning or losing.
4 seconds on a 7m and 50s track...do people even realise that is less than a 1% difference? That is probably less than pole position and 5th place in a Formula 1 qualifying session... God man, just buy the car you like the most and take a shit on commercial wankery that is Nurburgring laptimes.
Seriously? Foul play? That's the worst excuse a journalists could ever make. Why don't you just try driving JUST a suzuki swift in nurburgring with sport tyres and then with semi slick tyres.
The Civic's Ring time is as uninteresting and unrealistic as the Renault Megan's Ring time or any other Ring time, even the Porsche 918 time. There is no neural motoring org there on the Ring to check these manufacturers to see what kind of tires, engine mapping, suspension, gear ratio, etc, they are using. Porsche needed ONE month of testing, a mountain of tires and a team of engineers and pro drivers to set their Ring record. How realistic is that? Forget those time. If anything VW has shown us people in the business can and will cheat. Renault changed the Megan a lot to take back the "record" from Seat Lone Cupra. They even toss out the back seat. And those race spec tires on a hot hatch :) Talk about going too far.
It's not just the tyres, the Civic carries 80kg, that's huge on a track, and it's engine is quite laggy and unresponsive. The civic was set up for long straights which is why it's ring time was so good, it can do 168mph and the test car had more power :). This test was fair, as this is what you get from factory. The Megane was down on power by over 30bhp, and it's clear it is the better track car, on the road the civic is far better, but for Hardcore track action the civic is just too heavy, and dull witted to keep up with the Megane.
For the Nurburgring time, the Civic was on Continental Force Contacts, which in our own testing is about 1 second faster on a 60 second lap than the Sport 5's. Personally it should not of set a lap time on Force Contacts.... Naughty Honda...
It's just the tyres that make the time difference here! And it looks like the Megane has slightly firmer suspension. I have had fast Honda's and fast Renaults all throughout my life. Buy a Renault if you can change it for a new one every 2 years...........otherwise they literally fall apart from hard driving, or buy the Honda if you cannot change your car often, it will seriously outlast the Renault and stay in one piece.
I don't understand why they don't equip the same tires on these cars? This video is biased. You can't expect that a car on factory tires will have the same amount of grip as one with (and I quote) ''Super sticky sport cup 2'' tires. Put them on the Civic also and do it again. I wonder what the outcome will be...
Even if the Honda would be the better choice, you'd still have the disadvantage of throwing up in your mouth every tme you look at it. ..and i hate throwing up. Yeah i know. Looks are debatable, but i REALLY don't like the look of the Honda.
In British-English, is there a difference between "traction" and "grip"? I've always thought of those terms as being synonymous (when talking about vehicles, anyway).
Calm your tits errbody! Can we not just appreciate how brilliant both these cars are? Being quicker than a super car with half the displacement around the ring is freaking impressive, and i might add is cheaper and more practical. Super car companies will soon have to look at forced induction if they want to stay in the game. Ps. The Civic looks as though the designer got inspiration from aftermarket body part companies. So shit!
Completely irrelevant test imo, if you're going to give an actual comparison both cars need to be on the same tyre. Why question the ring time? Judging by this the Honda would be the faster of the two if it had sticky tyres and that's only going to be more significant on a track where the Honda can stretch it's legs. How the presenter seems to have missed this I do not know? EVO? For those who are clueless about the difference a tyre can make, look it up and learn, it's seconds not 10ths.
The limiting factor here was the tyres, someone has already commented that the vid should have been named Cup2 vs Conti6. It's not really a fair comparison. Not suggesting the Civic would be faster than the Renault, I reckon it would be almost dead even. Both seem to be epic cars.
"Put the same tires on the Civic", "Put the same tires on the Civic"... How about tell Honda to put the same tires on the fucking Civic and then it can I get tested that way. Both cars tested at stock config, perfectly fair and reasonable review. Ignore the fanboy cretins Evo, both sides are embarrassing to listen to.
Remember, 99% of owners will never have the chance to find the very slim difference in track times. Plus, the Megane looks like its been designed by Joey essex ! Red wheels?? Ghastly looking vehicle , looks outdated now!
Interesting review but spoiled by the 'foul play' comment towards the end. Maybe makers should start using your local track to start bench marking there cars and standard fit track tyres to road cars...would be just great out on the road, even you had a twitch when first out on the track. Yeah good reviewing keep it up.
Michelin pilot sport cup 2 vs Continental sport contact 6 would have been a better name for this video...
These are the tyres that the cars came with from the showroom so it's fair in that regard. That said, I'd like to see them on the same rubber.
+Dawi But don't call it a car review when you talk tyres all the time. The fact that they draw conclusions on the cars on the basis of the tyres is ridiculous.
+sam spezza Put the Civic's tires on the Megane, and it's going to be just ever so slightly slower, not a massive difference, and just as usable. On top of that, Megane is clearly the better car to drive, that was an obvious conclusion in every comparison so far. Also I don't see the Civic being compared to Porsches and Ferraris when it come to picking best drivers cars of the year, which many car magazines, including EVO, does every year. Anyway, this is my last reply to you. As a mechanical engineer and someone with thousands of km's of track driving, I feel like talking to someone without a drivers license whose driving experience is limited to a playstation game is kind of a waste of time.
+Bobster Agreed!!
+sam spezza they are factory spec, honda can propose a more extreme version with semi slick tyres, not the case so far, Megane still win a the end, you can still love the Civic, does not change the result
I used to have the Megane. Such a fun car
I drove on once, such a flimsy car! Drove great but the interior is of real low quality.
+Rottensteam That's bullshit and proof you've never even been in your. Low quality interior? That's why reviewers compared it to Audi's when it came out ?
+derbigpr500 It's not bullshit wtf dude? All the buttons felt lose and you can move the whole center console by pushing it a little. It's not quality.
+Rottensteam Haha...even more obvious proof of your lies. All the buttons in it have a nice "click" to them, not loose at all, and you definitely can't move the whole center console. Stop spreading bullshit around and making yourself look like an idiot.
+derbigpr500 hahahaha omg I can tell you've never felt a good interior lol. Just because they "click" doesnt mean they feel good. And yes you can move the center cobsole around. Lmao keep living in your dream where Renault's have good interiors. You get what you pay for.
Just to nitpick here, they probably could've gotten the performance without a Turbo, it's the emmisions that ruin the NA party.
Also, I believe the 1.3 seconds difference is entirely down to tires. 3 Miles an hour through the Chicane is huge. The gap would've been bigger if the Honda didn't claw back some time under power. It'd be interesting to see what the Civic could do with identical tires.
+sax0joe absolutely right!! Megane ist unbeatable, because besides being faster it´s also much more thrilling to drive than Type R and Leon Cupra.
*****
Yea definitely. Then all we need is a Focus for a FWD World Championship.
*****
yeay modern cars are too fat heavy and expensive.
I definitely think the Type R would've edged ahead if it had identical tires.
+Shea Samuels well, if we're playing that game and spending a grand on cup 2 tyres for the civic, why not buy a 3 inch exhaust and a remap for the RS
So the Honda is quicker but can't take bends at speed because it's on road tyres. Thanks I'll buy a Honda and change the tyres
+Rationalist Society not about tyres it's about suspension :)
exactly
honda is the better car
that renault has twice less the extras and comfort stuff that the honda has
I'm ordering type r next week and cant wait for the build
+HarcosMackoTV and tires too 😁 👌
Change tyres and driver. . haha. .
Just kidding
+seanvanginkel true haha but shhhh 😁
Civic's 7:50 on the Nurburgring was an unofficial time, done with a preproduction car that was not entirely stock. It also accelerated faster than in any other Civic Type R acceleration video. You can see that clearly, and I've been saying that the Type R has 350hp+ in that Nurburgring run since the video was first released, even in uphill sections on the Nurburgring, it's faster than on flat acceleration runs that can be found all over youtube. Just saying, it's time on Nurburgring is not relevant, even Honda themselves have said that. Now the real production car might even be faster, but might be slower too. In any case, officially, Megane still holds the record because it was a car exactly like the one you get in a showroom if you buy it today, Honda wasn't. Neither was the Seat before that, in fact, you still can't buy a Seat in that configuration.
Besides, let's not forget one simple fact. Civic Type R is a brand new car. Leon Cupra is a brand new car. Megane RS is at this point based on a 7 year old hatchback. Those guys had 7 years of time to match the Megane, yet, failed to do so. Renault is one generation ahead of anyone else, and has been for a long time, every Megane that came out since the Megane II RS was the fastest and held the record, consistently for 10+ years. So... we all know how the real king of hot hatches is. It's just bad timing here that we compare brand new cars that came to the market in 2015 to a car that is in it's last year of production. In fact, the new Megane is already out now, and next year a brand new Megane RS comes out, with 300hp+ and 4 wheel steering...that will go around Nurburgring in about 7:40 probably.
Exactly. So much bullshit around those NS times. Yeah you hear me GTR type-r fanboys.
+derbigpr500 when you read about it more the reason it's not production car because they added a roll cage (with rubber fitment to do not add to the total strenght) and removed the stereo because of the additional weight of the roll cage. That was all modification.
they also had a pro driver ... hence why the acceleration difference . .. he had time to test the car and knows how to launch the car ... don't forget Honda themselves said they are willing to accept the challenge of a car setting a faster time ... because they are ready to beat the time they set
actually the car was completely stock as per what autocar stated apart from the rolecage......the mods etc were all rumours. the type r is the best hot hatch available.
+Mike Williams auto express *** all these people hating the Honda saying this and that.....jealous!!
The Type R looks so much better in black
+Will James yeah it looks hideous in white, Black seems to make the body kit more subtle.
black makes it look like a real hooligan! Other colors don't really suite it well imo
+Will James RED is the only colour for the TYPE R.
santclause1 Id rather be seen in pink Toyota Prius than a red type r
Will James LOL, I think the worst would be someone approaching you while sitting in a type R and them saying "That car really suits you."
would love to have seen them both with the same league of tyres.. yeah I get that's "from factory", but it kind of spoils the comparison.
Yup... everyone knows what rubber you use has a dramatic effect on performance, especially standard road tyres compared to dry track day tyres.
wow many Type R fanboys being bitter at it lost and complaining about the tires yet not only the Megane comes with them stock (so it is a fair comparaison from this perspective) they forget that the Type R has about 35hp more and MORE than 50Nm of torque.
+InitialDAmine Don't forget Honda is a brand new car and Megane has been on the market in pretty much identical form (10hp power increase and new dampers and tires aside) for almost 8 years, and it's actually out of production as we speak because the new generation Megane comes out to the market now.
If you're doing an expire meant or testing two separate things then it makes sense to keep things constant and the variables the same for both. In this case everything was the same besides the tires, which if you're testing which car is faster than another, then having that variable the same for both cars would be better. However if you're only considering factory options then yes, the Megane is better. In the end it just so happens that the Megane has the better factory options.
+InitialDAmine And 80 kg more weight in the Civic. Did you even watch the video? It wasn't that informative but the driver told about this fact. The Renault hast no rear seats but a massive strut brace.
+SlickRickOne facts lets talk about them since you seem to assunate that 80kgs is a real big deal compared to the power and torque figures, the power to weight ratio is in favor of the Civic and by a marging, and the torque to weight ratio is even further in favor of the Civic, so no matter how you look at it both cars were tested STOCK and the Renault won, simple as that.
+Shea Samuels you test two things in their stock condition which is the case here full stop. if we use your own logic, both car should have same suspensions, same power, same torque, same weight ............
The Michelin Sport cup 2s are STOCK with the Trophy R.
Very interesting video. So tires made all the difference in the end. For track purposes I guess you should have track tires, but given que explanation given by Dan, those tires in the Megane are bad for daily driving. Trade-offs, but solvable.
+Eric Xavier I think the only situation where these tires might be a problem is when it's raining really hard. For the rest, on public roads, you don't really come close to the limits of grip anyway. They are a lot more expensive though, and you probably have to replace them more often too.
+Peter Timowreef This test did clearly show, tires are important.
Most of the tires in that category use a soft compound that is great for grip, but in cold temperatures they get very hard. So if the temperature is is near freezing it will feel like you're driving on ice even when the road is dry. You can get tires in this class that do fairly well in the wet, they just hate the cold. These tires do tend to cost a little more, but nothing crazy when comparing to other high end all seasons, where they really hit your pocket book is in milage. Grippy tires don't last as long as harder tires.
You can get 2 sets of wheels and run winter tires/wheels and summer tire/wheels, for the best of all performance.
Or move to a desert that is hot and dry then go as grippy as you can.
Thank god i live in Puerto Rico.
+Eric Xavier Tires, and... no rear seats, no climate control, no multimedia... It's a track focus car like Porsche GT3 for example.
+Ran Elkobi gt3 hast climate control and multimedia :D
Interesting comparison, yet without much relevance.
Type R is fully equipped, even with some real luxury and safety features. It has perfectly streetable tires, yet they do very decent on the track.
The RS Trophy in comparison is put together much more without compromise, sacrificing a lot of daily driving comfort and using tires which are at the edge of what I would consider a streetable tire. Even the fact that you have to warm them up shows that this is not an appropriate comparison. This video would have much more value if it would have been a normal megane RS which is way more similar when it comes to equipment and tires.
Still impressive performance from the RS Trophy, but when you want to have a fast daily that does not make compromises everywhere, get the Type R or the normal RS. The Trophy is for real enthusiasts, who are on the track frequently.
So overall for me that comparison (although I think it's bad right from the get-go) has 2 winners: The RS Trophy for the relentless track machine, and the Type R, which is a wonderful daily driver and still stupid fast if you want to put it on the track.
And by the way, I would like to see that video again with the Civic on the Michelin Tires, that'll change the picture most certainly.
I bet the Megane has more compliant suspension on the road. The Renault Sport guys are a very clever bunch.
The suspension of the RS is definitely very good, but don't underestimate the Type R here. I've driven it recently and these electronic adjustable dampers are pretty pretty awesome. Not a bumpy ride, but very planted. Honda put a whole lot of effort in this suspension.
+Markus Krause - Indeed - Just looking at the interior shots, give me the Type R anyday. The Megane's interior looked pretty basic.
+Markus Krause You sir are totally on point!
Same tire and keep everything on factory stock - then we have the rough idea about what is what!
A car with 80's like interior and sticky tire does 1.5 faster than a sport groceries getter. Impressive?
You Renault guys can keep that megan - record holder - any day. I'll chose the 1.5s slower one and see how you feel everytime you got the new tire just to get a 1.5s faster after warming up!
+Markus Krause If you want a fast daily, the Golf R, Focus RS and BMW M135i are the cars you want, not the Type R for this price. The Type R makes very little sense. It's far too expensive! The basic one costs £4k more than a fully loaded Megane 275 Nav! That's A LOT of money. It's not £4k better, or £6k with the Honda's option pack.
It costs about as much as the aforementioned AWD or RWD rivals, isn't as fast especially in all weather/real world road conditions that you point to as being important. They are all superb driver's cars particularly the Ford, which has the most bang for buck, much more power than this, much more sophisticated drivetrain, incredible reviews etc.
The Type R isn't as fun as the Megane either really, you may as well just buy a standard last of the line Megane 275 Nav. It's MUCH cheaper, it'll still easily be as fast, and it's probably a better everyday car than the Type R if anything, despite being pretty old now. For example ride compliance is amazing.
Honda failed big time here. They positioned the Type R at a price where it sits against much more exciting and better value AWD or 4WD cars. Compared to FWD rivals like the Megane or say Leon 280 which are hugely capable cars that are still pretty much on par with it, for much less money, and have been around for years. The Honda hasn't moved the bar at all despite being newer and more expensive.
If a new Honda can't beat essentially a dated Renault due for replacement then I don't see much hope for it when Renault finally replace the Megane in the next year or so.
Looks like the tires were the determining factor here.
should be same tires
+Allan Petersen bullshine. each company has the choice. Honda chose cost over performance. they lose.
Wow. What a review. "The Megane has the type R covered"? Really? So on a mickey mouse track in the dry after a bunch of warm up laps it can beat it. Congratulations Renault - you built a brilliant car there. Of course putting on tyres like that completely screws it up as a road car since they're rubbish when they're cold (more often than not), almost dangerous in the wet and from experience of such tyres I would say after a few heat cycles will be ready for the bin.
Put the Honda on equal tyres and it will leave the Megane for dead. Or put the Megane on realistic tyres and it loses it's massive grip advantage.
Either way it's a bit of a sidestep to making a good car if you go to the lengths of ruining it as a road car for lap times.
I'm honestly starting to think a lot of these reviews aren't worth watching as they're hardly a full or fair test.
Before they even start you can pick the winner by which one is faster round an asda car park.
+hung huge I want your tears for my water injection.
+hung huge You're such a child! It's pathetic. The honda's just a load of shite - it's never going to match renault, who've been making the best hot hatches since the early 90s.
Malc180s
Really? Cheap, thrown together, unreliable frog shite are the best? Jog on kid.
hung huge Reliability, build quality, and place of origin have never had anything to do with how good a hot hatch is. Renault have made the best hot hatches for 25 years.
You want an expensive, high quality product you don't buy a hot hatch, because that was never the point of them.
Malc180s
Yeah because what I really want in my hot hatch is to walk as often as drive, listen to it rattling around when it does decide it wants to work and tell everyone how it can get round a go kart track on sticky tyres slightly more quickly than other hatches. Presuming it's not broken that day. Renault used to make some good cars. Now and for the last 10+ years they're a joke. At speed they're nervous and twitchy, they're built like old skodas (only don't last as long) and most times on the road they don't seem to go as well as all the reviews suggest.
If I want a quality product why wouldn't I buy a hot hatch? Audi, VW, Honda, BMW, Mercedes, etc all seem to be able to make cars that go well and aren't unreliable rubbish the rest of the time. What's Renaults excuse again? It's cheap? Put a Dacia badge on it then.
Well, as much as i agree to the fact that ring times aren't very relevant and/or are achieved (mostly) by cheating ...
You should really put those cup tires on the type R and try again.
+detaart Why don't we chip the Megane by 40bhp too , you know, make it even? You have to review from stock , otherwise where does the modding end? My Old Modded Corrado VR6 will piss on both these cars, but it's modded to hell so should never be compared to any stock car. The Megane gets those tyres stock and they reviewed exactly what you buy, regardless the Focus RS is going to destroy the Civic on the road, in every situation.
bign3ck I'm not talking about hp, i'm talking about tires ...
The rest of your comment makes no sense, sorry
***** I'm not expecting anything of it. I'm just observing the fact that it got quite close on a much less aggressive tire ...
It would be interesting to run both of these cars on the same tires.
detaart You don't get racing tyres on the type R. So fitting them is considered a mod.
+detaart you think a 1.3 second gap over 80 seconds is close?
Shame the Civic is a 5 door school-run car in the end.
Why the fuck Honda were too lazy to design a lighter, better looking 3-door chassis I will never understand.
Because it won't sell as much as a 5 door.
ProductofNZ Fair point but my point still stands. Just lazy. Completely ruins the whole idea of a hot hatch adding an extra 2 doors I think!
Essentially it's just a school run car with an engine conversion and body kit! (Not denying it's an amazing bit of engineering and an extremely fast car btw).
+James McKay that's essentially it. I see what you're getting at but the reality is that the people that buy these things will be utilizing them in everyday life and they need to be practical. These aren't 911s or Mclarens. Of course they will develop them for a market because they are a business and at the end of the day they still need to make a profit.
EVO magazine UK. December 2015. Honda Civic Type R 1'24.9 (Cont. SP6), Renault Megane Trophy-R 275 1'23.6 (Mich. SC2), Seat Leon SC Cupra PP 280 Manual 1'23.1 (Mich. SC2). No video???
Lotta butthurt Honda fans here
I forget the Meg has been around for a while now. Taken other manufacturers a long while to catch up to what they produced. Fuck knows what monstrosity they will produce next time after what they did to the RS Clio
So many Honda fanboys crying about the tires.
is this bash the type R video?? he owns a renault or got payed to do this, only video in the world that makes the new civic type R sound bad.. what a joke..
I don't care what these renault fan boys say. If you're planning to track your type r, the basic norm would be to change the tyres to stickier, track proven ones... bam.. there goes the renault.
You're comparing a car built in theory for the track in which you will sacrifice driveability when raining or cold tires? The civic can be a track car and a full practical, streetable car regardless of the weather conditions, not to mention all the commodities.
Yes is unfair comparing a much newer car to one that's been out for years, well so it's comparing performance with such a basic and fundamental factor (tyres).
+Johnny Salvattore Two factory standard cars, how could it be fairer? The standard 275 has already been round this track faster the the honda.
+Johnny Salvattore What a cry baby dont throw all your toys out the pram child
+Johnny Salvattore Correct.
+Johnny Salvattore completely agree, semi slicks is a defacto standard change when you start heading to track days its simply normal to get them, as they dont rip to pieces like normal tyres and make a massive difference, i would never waste my money on a shitbox french car, Honda is such a higher quality brand in everyway.
Megane is 7 years old, 2016 is the last year for the 3rd model. It's normal Renault make a brutal version like R26. Sure this Honda is fantastic. I hope they continu to develop its.
Put the same tyres on the type r for a fair comparison, also, the megane is stripped....
Megane is king of hot hot hatches.Renault always knew how to make chassis
Nuer BMW IS A KING
nice tire review lol
The difference here is entirely down to those tires.
+Furkan Turfanda and your point?
+alfamonk We don't know which is the better car, because the Renault is not using street tires.
Furkan Turfanda
incorrect. they are specified with the car, ok for street use.
They are street LEGAL, but not street tires.
Furkan Turfanda
i don't give a flying fuck - Honda chose what tyres the R is specced with. Renault chose better tyres. Renault = faster. Move on.
Type-r any day
+Johnny every day even when it rains lol
+Johnny and get whipped by a 5year-old Renault? you lose.
+alfamonk
I think you're seriously underestimating how much difference tyres can make. You could run a 10 year old Type R on the stickiest semi slicks you can buy and that will eat the Megane. It's obvious the Megane would lose if the Type R ran Cup 2s.
I don't know many people who would want to be seen in a Renault full stop.. let alone one that's 5 years old.
dipshit.........grt back into your hyundai
Sure stock to stock setup, the megane is better. But they forgot what aftermarket support is. Soon, Mugen, Spoon, J'S Racing, Feels and the rest of the Honda aftermarket support companies will rise up to the challenge and push the FK2R beyond its stock capabilities....then i will wish your megane goodluck. Smart racers look beyond the stock box and potential in a platform. In time, the FK2R will have the Megane "covered".
The main difference is that the Civic type r will still be roaring around in ten years time, whilst the Renault will most likely have blown up/fallen apart/ died because of an electrical gremlin. My C T R is 13 years old clocked 170k + miles and still drives beautifully and zips along nicely (although it obviously can't compete with modern equivalents) and handles brilliantly. I like the Renault and I'll admit that my gf's megan coupe does change direction very well, but the build quality is crap in comparison with German and Japanese cars.
Renault Sport forever for me, because the power is nothing without the control. And Renault Sport is the master of control !
We know they all lie when it comes to Nurburgring times, and everything else...Let's just agree they're as good as FWD hot hatches get in 2015.
We know that "the ring" time was down to foul play, removing the a/c unit putting in a rollcage for stiffness and removing the stereo isnt exactly a production car anymore. The fact is i wouldnt have either of these cars, with the type R you got a ridiculous wing on the back and with the Megane in this format you got a silly 4 point harness which would annoy me every single day.
For me the best FWD on sale at the moment is the Leon Cupra, Very nearly as fast as these without being stupid looking like the type R or having an interior slightly more luxurious than a toilet like the Megane. Easily the best FWD road car.
+john jackson The quickest is in this circuit comparison by EVO is the Leon Cupra 280 SC Performance Pack manual gearbox, fitted with Michelin Cup2, test by EVO 1min 23 sec 1 tenth. EVO magazine says surprise result!
+Juana Moreno Piña
Very interesting, another reason why id pick the Leon over these two :)
If the Type R had the same tires it would demolish the Megane there too. That Type R is a beast, it even takes down M3s and RS3s... Incredible machine by Honda.
Basically it's just a battle of tyres!
In a daily driver which is driven in wet conditions third of the car-lifetime i wouldn't want to have CUP-tyres!
to truly appreciate the better chassis and drivetrain tyres need to be control tyres, same for both cars, same track,same day, then you know which car is the better car, other wise this is just bullshit
'Summary of the Comments below" for the people who cant be arsed reading them...
I am a Renault Fan boy
I am a Honda fanboy
My Renault is faster than yours's
NO! My honda is faster than yours
My Honda doesnt have your tires...unfair!
My Renault doesnt have your HP...unfair!
You don't know what you are talking about!
NO, you dont know what you are talking about!
Honda's are rubbish,
No, Renault's are rubbish.
Rinse & Repeat x1000
they should of been tested with the same tyres, it's pointless even doing a track battle otherwise.
So many fan boys. It's like I'm reading the comments to an iphone vs android video.
Who knew Honda fan boys was worse than Ford fan boys. bUt ThE tYrEs!!!
Put some 888's on the FK2. Then find out what the result is ;)
So Less is More,Well done RenaultSport,Honda cant Inovate has it seems,more Power,a car which just come out and still couldnt beat a MeganeRS from 2010 Base.
+Rui Pedro not base model = no seats, no Aircon less 80kgs and some agressive coilovers. a track car you mean :)
Ricardo Marques
Cause u gay br0
+Rui Pedro lolol! cause it's true :P
Ricardo Marques
Megane Ownz TypeUgly,EVO is the best and say it.
+Rui Pedro English dimwit, you speak it?
This presenter is biased in all his reviews (no matter he ends up being right or wrong)
YEAH! Renault won!
well that's embarassing. Forget the whining about tyres: each manufacturer specifies the tyre. All this does is show that Honda's marketing monkeys missed a trick. It's Honda's choice to go cheapskate. ..
+alfamonk - Really? I'd rather have affordable everyday tyres than for track racing which I'm never going to do. Even if I did, how much would I? Out of 9,750 of yearly driving, maybe 250 on the track? Give me everyday tyres every time.
the only problem with the Megane is looks. I normally overlook this for performance but it's an ugly car. Civic all the way lol. I wouldn't be in the market for either but if I was forced I'd go Civic for looks.
+Audfile Funny I find the Civic ugly, 4 doors and that wing...
barely sounds like you get it over 3k while your talking
"Please dont say Honda are slower than a Renault or ill have to write some drival about tyres or some other excuse" ....Honda Fanboy keyboard warrior
nonsense video, why don't you put them on the same tyres?!
In the end the video compared tires and not cars.
I don't really care about ring times, but I would like to have seen a proper comparison with the same tires fitted to both cars. Love the Megane, had a 265 Trophy and loved every moment in it but I have to recognize that the Honda would most likely be faster.
So...the only reason that Megane is fast is because of the cup 2 tires. That's pity.
When will these reviewers learn and put the same tyres on the cars? So obvious, yet so ... dumb.
And yes, I understand, that these are factory cars with their factory tyres, but if you took the Honda to the track, the first thing you'd do would be to put some proper rubber on it, naturally.
+Szilárd Hompoth Well it is not their cars, they just borrow them from Honda or Renault.. Buying a set of cup 2s just for a laptime is probably to expensive to do..
+Rickard Nilsson You are right in that. And it wouldn't be a 'problem' if they were simply doing reviews or other kind of comparisons.
But when it comes down to lap times, and which car is the fastest, you simply cannot have accurate results without striving to provide the same conditions for both cars. And the tires play a HUGE part in that. Still, great production value :)
Hm. I don´t really agree, because the cars are sold with those tires. If you buy the car, that is how the car will be on track. And if they would change the tires, why not the exhaust? A lot of people do that. As long as they let us know what tires they got I think it is as good as it can be. :)
The Megane is still an impressive contender in the market after all this time, even as a Honda fanboy myself, Renaults hot hatch credentials are undeniable.
Also, can't blame Honda for moving with the times when it comes to using turbo power.
Oddly enough though, there seems to be a benchmark figure of 300 whp and 200+ lbs ft of torque from those building normally aspirated variants of the Honda 2.4l K series motors.
That probably equates to around 320-330 at the flywheel, but i guess it is much easier to chalk up numbers and low end grunt with a turbo setup while keeping the hippies happy.
Saying that, aftermarket K series turbo builds produce stupidly high numbers. Can't help but feel car companies obstinately ignore the refinements made in aftermarket tuning in favour of using new technology simply for the sake of doing so.
I wonder if people would whine that they should change the tires for Renault if it was wet
I doubt it. #hondafanboys
Love the Civic but Renault is incredible.
That 275 trophy R is something els I'd like to see two good drives race around the ring to see what's quicker !
I had the Megane RS when it was really hot. 4Years ago...loved the Turbo Punch. But they ruined the Design. Hope the new One will be hot again. And the Honda...sure nice to drive...but it looks like Pain in the Eyes.
This video is a joke, the cars are not evenly matched. One car has super sticky tyres while the other one has fairly standard ones. That is like Usain Bolt racing Danny Devito over 100 meters.
+SaintToSinner87 I pictured it and I laughed.
+SaintToSinner87 Well - The tests are done as the cars come from factory. Honda did not choose to put cup 2 tires on their car, so EVO cant do that either. The Megane is on Öhlins suspension as well, should they put that on the Civic as well? Honda most likely did their ring times on different tires, but chose not to put them on their road going customer car, not EVO's fault.
Yeah, you made the exact point I made, just a bit better! And yes, Seat did the same thing. And they later on made a kind of "track pack" available to order, with lighter rims, cup 2 tires and 4 pot brembo brakes.
sam spezza You are absolutely correct. But I dont think most people buy a trophy to use on the road, but to use it as a second car, a track day car. But this test is on a track, and this particular track suited the Megane better. For road driving, the Civic is probably a much better choice. But Id go for the megane anyways, its more badass. Free of choice though, and restricted to FWD, I would choose a GTI performance pack (and that is actually what I currently drive)
+SaintToSinner87 I understand your point but its more like Usain Bolt in running spikes, and Usain Bolt in running shoes...also those tires are a factory option so the Renault was using what it has for its purpose (the track)...seems pretty fair. sounds like you want to watch a Type-R vs a Type-R where the Type-R wins?
I cant belive they are still saying that Type R is the fastest around Ring.Honda is really nice and fast but they should admit it already,they cant beat Renault and that's a fact,new RS is around a corner,it will be in a totaly different league....
+matrixzr In exactly same EVO comparison 3 cars together, the Leon SC 280 Cupra with Cup 2 tires was the fastest 1'23,1 sec. Half second faster than RS Trophy-R. EVO says surprise result. Surprise? and no video for it? is no popular for EVO?
+Juana Moreno Piña Well we cant take these results for granted,there are a lot of factors we have to consider,I would just like to hear from Honda on this,they are still silent about it because that video where Type R alegedly broke the record is apparently official in their minds
put matching tires on BOTH CARS and lets see some numbers. Im sure they used what they came with.. but to get proper numbers it starts with fitting matching tires
Foul play on Nurnburgring times for the Civic? So many other factors in play. What a shitty review..
TheTruth76 it was a tongue in cheek comment.I thought veryone understood that those times set are unregulated.
TheTruth76 it was a tongue in cheek comment.I thought veryone understood that those times set are unregulated.
Renault sport are the kings of hot hatches, always have been & always will be. Honda is not even close.
The EK9 is quicker than a Williams and 172 despite only being a 1.6. The DC2 is quicker than a 182 and as quick as a megane r26. The EP3 is quicker than a 182. The DC5 is quicker than a 182 and as quick as a megane r26 despite no turbo and quicker than a 197 or clio 200. I'm pretty sure the only time where Honda has been slower is during the FN2 years but Japan got the FD2 who's chassis is head and shoulders above anything Renault has to offer. The only problem is that most Type R owners are chavs who haven't got a clue how to drive except for some of the imports.
What a load of crap. Watch the video, the Renault is quicker by a long way.
Steve W If you listen to what they say they basically blame it on the tyres. Plus it's a Trophy R which is hardly a road car. Perform the same modifications on the Type R and it'll eat the Trophy R for breakfast.
Tires this tires that but why should I take it for granted that this particular driver extracted the maximum out of both cars producing a reliable and representative time?
Oh, and what tire pressures did he put on those tires?
Or maybe it makes no difference?
And this is not Nurburgring, it's a different track with different characteristics.
Sooooooo whatever.
There was no foul play! all statements like Honda admitting it wasn't the exact civic and also the tire comparison. if you want it fair...use the same tires. good review though. I'm a Type R fan for life! :)
Actually no comparison. The Honda has the more modern direct injection engine that not only gives you more power and torque but also gets better gas mileage. You could also put stickier track tires in the Type R and improve your lap times even further. Lastly, the Honda looks sexier.
tires making the difference
Ik like seeing this two, becaus they are very simular.
Unlike a VW Golf GTi/R or a Seat Leon Cupra, that looks just like any other hatchback, these two are much more like 'practical sportscars'.
They look exact like how they perform: outragious! ;)
To everyone that says "should have been on same tyres" well.....it wasn't! Nor did the Megane have the same power as the Civic. Heck if we complain about tyres lets make everything the same and then its Civic versus Civic which is a very fair test! lol
numerous times Evo has said tyres can make or break a lap time and so you go against your own advice by invalidating the like for like comparison here. oh and you forgot the 4th car under 8 mins around the 'Ring .. the Cupra ST
+altern8ive It's a race between two stock cars. The Megane comes with better tires stock so that's how it went faster. The Honda has more power but I don't see you calling foul on that aspect.
+altern8ive Cupra ST still the Fastest Station Wagon ever !!!
Cupra SC also under 8min.
The Megane is an awesome car (used to have one), but this is an unfair comparison, semi slicks vs road sport tyres, plus one with a roll cage and other doesn't. I think the standard RS275 trophy, would've done the same time as the Civic Type R.
Anyways, both MONSTER track cars. Both would be AWESOME fun but you know what I wouldn't want to own either as a daily, they're just too rough on city roads. (reason why I sold my megane)
haha does anyone else feel like this video was meant to spawn a comment section battle and pile up the views haha
by the way they are both great cars, just depends on what you need to do with said car. everyday driving the civic might be a better option
I think I saw this in Evo few months ago or maybe in an other magazine but the Megane Trophy-R set its record while the Nordschleife was wet at some point ! But power difference is also a really important fact at Nurburgring !
The 7:50 time on the Nürburgring of the Civic was an unofficial time, done with a preproduction car that was not entirely stock. Period.
So much doubts on the end,didn't understand why!!!!!!!
The Honda on Nurburgring must have different conditions,drivers he said......... Schmuck!!
From the beginning that it's perceptible that he prefers the MEGANE so he went on denigrating the CIVIC!!!!!!!
OHH Mr driver,do you know what is impartiality,justice and fairness!!??
No.....Didn't though so......
Well it's hard for this wanna be (race driver) to understand the difference between 275 hp and 310 hp on nurburgring!!
Go on and drive some bicycles or skates....
Faul play lol thats just whats going on in this video could see the driver drfference while sleeping 😊 lets just say its the driver
I grew up in a generation of Godzillas, Silvias, Evos, naturally aspirated Type-Rs and ram-raiding WRXs. Always wanted one of these cars and came close many a time to buying one in my early 20s but 2 things always held me back - police attention and theft. Thank God I was prudent which probably saved me lots of speeding tickets, loss of license, killing myself/others, theft and high insurance premiums.
I now look at the Type-R equipped with turbo, my boyhood youth salivating as he always wanted a turbo on a Honda, but the man in me says Megane 275R all the way. Ever since i switched to European hot hatches over the past 12 years, I'll never look back at Japanese cars again. Sure enough i miss the electrical and engine reliability of Jap cars, including the lower maintenance costs, but in terms of pure driver engagement with machine, nothing beats a Renault.
I've had a Peugeot GTI-180, Renault Cup 182, BMW Z3, VW Golf Gti. I can tell you the Cup 182 was the ugliest car I ever owned but it was the best to drive. The handling was precise, nimble and came with a terrific seating position. I'm now looking at buying a 2015 model RS275. Better to wait til the new shape comes out for a price drop. What a great value car. Boyhood voices muted for good.
Tires and track plus "Professional Driver" needed.
Performance x Styling x Longevity "engine" x Space x Built x Pricing x Etc.
Overall?
Honda Civic Type R Wins all. ✔️
Hands Down 🙌🏽
Less weight,sticky trackday tires....should he expect a different result?
As for the Nur times....i think the long straights would provide and advantage for the TypeR but again there are even more corners that would favored the Megane,so i don't think either of them has an advantage.
I call BS on most Nur times unless i'm 100% sure the car is STOCK and the tires are not specifically made for the track.
cup racing tyres v road tyres... for a short twisty track....and be taken seriously...rofl
You should have just fitted snow chain's and filled the Honda up with diesel....wouldn't have made your comparison any worse...Conti's wtf.
Is Honda a big fan of the GTR Nismo? I found the color in the Civic especially those red lines are exact the same as the Nismo.
The Cvic that lap Nurburgring have no AC, stereo and front passenger seat. They also added a roll cage, so no, it's not a stock car. It weights much less Fun fact: Honda is stupid enough to claim the roll cgae doesn't gain any rigidity.....
The Civic Type R uses a much closer gear ratio transmission and more powerful engine compare to Renault, so it might be quicker, however, more under steering. More under steer= less acceleration, it's like the Corvette, more power less tire= drift off the turn= lack of acceleration. Honda should learn more from Nissan. The Renault is much better in corner with the cup 2 and less weight, the car turns better and accelerate off turns better, also more positive caster gives much better balance between under and over steer at mid corner. I'm not too sure, but I guess the Type R is using a torque converter. I just don't get the point of why a FWD want the rear to stay on track..... The Renault 275 uses mechanical limited slip differential. So in conclusion, the Renault is more of a FWD track car. Cup 2 tires, much steeper rear caster and a MLSD= greater maneuverability.
Love all the butthurt Honda bro's. You can pull this Megane off the showroom floor with Cup 2 tyres. OHH But they're "dangerous," LOL. Standard issue on a GT3-RS softies. Someone call the whambulance.
I wish we had Renault in America. They quit selling here 1987. At least the U.S. will FINALLY get the Honda Civic Type R next year. Until now, we've only had the Si as the top performing Civic.
the main reason the Civic Type R was faster because it was a preproduction testmule as Honds clearly CLAIMED in the northloop video so it des not and never hold the Northhloop FWD PRODUCTION record
DEADLY RIVALS: expensive Michelin tyres Versus slightly cheaper Continental tyres.
Both r great cars, but I dont know why you don't test them on similar tyres though. It's like a no brainer. Unless you get paid to do it like so.
The Type-R looks vicious in black.Why weren't the cup tyres used on the civic to make the comparison more even.We all know as gear heads,in competition tyres makes a light years worth of difference whether it's WRC,Touring car,F1 ect. tyres play a major role in winning or losing.
That Civic looks crazy stiff, ride quality must be pretty terrible on anything other than a perfectly smooth road.
4 seconds on a 7m and 50s track...do people even realise that is less than a 1% difference? That is probably less than pole position and 5th place in a Formula 1 qualifying session... God man, just buy the car you like the most and take a shit on commercial wankery that is Nurburgring laptimes.
Seriously? Foul play? That's the worst excuse a journalists could ever make.
Why don't you just try driving JUST a suzuki swift in nurburgring with sport tyres and then with semi slick tyres.
The Civic's Ring time is as uninteresting and unrealistic as the Renault Megan's Ring time or any other Ring time, even the Porsche 918 time.
There is no neural motoring org there on the Ring to check these manufacturers to see what kind of tires, engine mapping, suspension, gear ratio, etc, they are using. Porsche needed ONE month of testing, a mountain of tires and a team of engineers and pro drivers to set their Ring record. How realistic is that?
Forget those time. If anything VW has shown us people in the business can and will cheat. Renault changed the Megan a lot to take back the "record" from Seat Lone Cupra. They even toss out the back seat. And those race spec tires on a hot hatch :) Talk about going too far.
People saying the cars should have been on the same tyres...sure and the Megane should have the same engine power as the Civic then ;)
It's not just the tyres, the Civic carries 80kg, that's huge on a track, and it's engine is quite laggy and unresponsive. The civic was set up for long straights which is why it's ring time was so good, it can do 168mph and the test car had more power :). This test was fair, as this is what you get from factory. The Megane was down on power by over 30bhp, and it's clear it is the better track car, on the road the civic is far better, but for Hardcore track action the civic is just too heavy, and dull witted to keep up with the Megane.
For the Nurburgring time, the Civic was on Continental Force Contacts, which in our own testing is about 1 second faster on a 60 second lap than the Sport 5's. Personally it should not of set a lap time on Force Contacts.... Naughty Honda...
It's just the tyres that make the time difference here! And it looks like the Megane has slightly firmer suspension. I have had fast Honda's and fast Renaults all throughout my life. Buy a Renault if you can change it for a new one every 2 years...........otherwise they literally fall apart from hard driving, or buy the Honda if you cannot change your car often, it will seriously outlast the Renault and stay in one piece.
I don't understand why they don't equip the same tires on these cars?
This video is biased. You can't expect that a car on factory tires will have the same amount of grip as one with (and I quote) ''Super sticky sport cup 2'' tires. Put them on the Civic also and do it again. I wonder what the outcome will be...
Even if the Honda would be the better choice, you'd still have the disadvantage of throwing up in your mouth every tme you look at it. ..and i hate throwing up.
Yeah i know. Looks are debatable, but i REALLY don't like the look of the Honda.
In British-English, is there a difference between "traction" and "grip"? I've always thought of those terms as being synonymous (when talking about vehicles, anyway).
Calm your tits errbody! Can we not just appreciate how brilliant both these cars are? Being quicker than a super car with half the displacement around the ring is freaking impressive, and i might add is cheaper and more practical. Super car companies will soon have to look at forced induction if they want to stay in the game. Ps. The Civic looks as though the designer got inspiration from aftermarket body part companies. So shit!
Completely irrelevant test imo, if you're going to give an actual comparison both cars need to be on the same tyre. Why question the ring time? Judging by this the Honda would be the faster of the two if it had sticky tyres and that's only going to be more significant on a track where the Honda can stretch it's legs. How the presenter seems to have missed this I do not know? EVO? For those who are clueless about the difference a tyre can make, look it up and learn, it's seconds not 10ths.
The limiting factor here was the tyres, someone has already commented that the vid should have been named Cup2 vs Conti6. It's not really a fair comparison. Not suggesting the Civic would be faster than the Renault, I reckon it would be almost dead even. Both seem to be epic cars.
"Put the same tires on the Civic", "Put the same tires on the Civic"... How about tell Honda to put the same tires on the fucking Civic and then it can I get tested that way. Both cars tested at stock config, perfectly fair and reasonable review. Ignore the fanboy cretins Evo, both sides are embarrassing to listen to.
Remember, 99% of owners will never have the chance to find the very slim difference in track times. Plus, the Megane looks like its been designed by Joey essex ! Red wheels?? Ghastly looking vehicle , looks outdated now!
Interesting review but spoiled by the 'foul play' comment towards the end. Maybe makers should start using your local track to start bench marking there cars and standard fit track tyres to road cars...would be just great out on the road, even you had a twitch when first out on the track.
Yeah good reviewing keep it up.